David Martindale

[Greenbeard]

No, I am not suggesting he replace JR. (Not yet anyway.) Looking for an explanation if anyone out there is ITK about the rules and procedures about his SFA hearing to determine if he is a "fit and proper person" to manage Livvie.
Per BBC, "if deemed unfit, it would be up to Livingston whether he continues in the manager's job or another role within the club."
So if it is Livvie's call, why the hearing? Clearly they think he is fit given he has been put in that position at least through to the end of the season.

Edit: apologies if already covered under the Ross Out or Jack Ross threads. I have not read these since Saturday and won't be.

[Jones28]

It seems daft to have a hearing for someone they've already decided is fit and proper.

But this is the same kind of test that allowed Craig Whyte and Charles green to own Rangers I think....so take from that what you will.

[Gaffer1875]

I don’t think it’s to determine fit and proper as a head coach but more of his role within football operations.

I hope he gets to continue, I quite like him.


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[MWHIBBIES]

Wouldn't want him anywhere near Hibs for a variety of reason. Main one is his style of football is absolutely dreadful. Folk think Jack Ross style is bad (it isn't) but on his worse day his sides play like Brazil compared to Martindale.

[calumhibee1]

Wouldn't want him anywhere near Hibs for a variety of reason. Main one is his style of football is absolutely dreadful. Folk think Jack Ross style is bad (it isn't) but on his worse day his sides play like Brazil compared to Martindale.

They ripped us apart at Easter Road and looked good at Almondvale against Celtic imo. It was much better football than what we play most of the time so I’m not sure his style of football is that bad?

Admittedly that’s about all I’ve seen of his Livi side though.

[Allez Hibs]

Shouldn't be a question. Guy has proven himself and some. How good does he have Livingston playing.

[TheGog]

If he's not allowed to be a Manager due to the SFAs fit and proper nonsense, then they really need to take a look at Craig Thompson ffs.

[Bostonhibby]

It seems daft to have a hearing for someone they've already decided is fit and proper.

But this is the same kind of test that allowed Craig Whyte and Charles green to own Rangers I think....so take from that what you will.The SFA benchmark is multiple convicted tax fraudster Dodgy Dave King.

They seemed happy with Vladimir Romanov too.

He'll be fine.

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[ronaldo7]

https://twitter.com/ScottishFA/status/1354043941184819201

Accepted as fit and proper.

[Unseen work]

Anyone that can get Robinson scoring as many goals as he has deserves the job.

[Stuart93]

Passed as a fit and proper person

Pretty happy for him to be honest and shows people can be rehabilitated.

I like listening to him too, very grounded

[MWHIBBIES]

They ripped us apart at Easter Road and looked good at Almondvale against Celtic imo. It was much better football than what we play most of the time so I’m not sure his style of football is that bad?

Admittedly that’s about all I’ve seen of his Livi side though.

We ripped them apart at Livi as well. He seriously plays gash football. I've never seen them play better football than us. Watch their game on Sunday. Probably the poorest spectacle of top level football in Scotland all season. Rather watch Hearts.

[Pretty Boy]

Guy served his time. He appears genuinely remorseful and accepting of the impact of his actions, wouldn't appear to be at a high risk of re offending and he's unlikely to be working directly with vulnerable groups for long periods of time. No brainer that he should be allowed to continue in his role.

A criminal record follows people throughout their lives and it's a real stigma. There are obvious cases when it should be and is a barrier to certain types of employment. I don't think this is one of those cases. Now the SFA have made their decision he should be left in peace to get on with his life and not hounded about his past every 5 minutes.

[Vault Boy]

Good stuff. We all lose if folk aren't allowed to rehabilitate and move on with their lives.

Fair play to David for his incredible job so far at Livi.

[Sylar]

https://twitter.com/ScottishFA/status/1354043941184819201

Accepted as fit and proper.

Only acceptable outcome IMO.

As for the notion that his style of football is 'absolutely dreadful' above, while Sunday's game against St Mirren was a thoroughly unpleasant watch, they actually play a lot more football this season than they did with Dykes leading the line last season. There's so much pace in their front line and midfield that they actually play some pretty efficient passing football this season. They're effective, they're solid at the back (only conceded 1 goal after the 60 minute mark in any game all season), and their work rate off the ball is incredible.

[chrisski33]

We ripped them apart at Livi as well. He seriously plays gash football. I've never seen them play better football than us. Watch their game on Sunday. Probably the poorest spectacle of top level football in Scotland all season. Rather watch Hearts.

Wouldnt say we are playing any better and recent form shows tgat esp since he started managing Livi. Has the whole squad fighting as a team and more passion unlike Ross at Hibs. But then again your happy with Ross in charge

[Sylar]

We ripped them apart at Livi as well. He seriously plays gash football. I've never seen them play better football than us. Watch their game on Sunday. Probably the poorest spectacle of top level football in Scotland all season. Rather watch Hearts.

I've watched every single Livi game this season (family have an involvement with the club and we have a close family friend who's a regular in the first team) and this is just wrong. They played some utter dross under Holt earlier in the season but Martindale has done a fantastic job changing them into a pacey, passing and aggressive team.

[Stuart93]

We ripped them apart at Livi as well. He seriously plays gash football. I've never seen them play better football than us. Watch their game on Sunday. Probably the poorest spectacle of top level football in Scotland all season. Rather watch Hearts.

He wasn’t in charge of them when we beat them earlier in the season to be fair.

From what I’ve seen of them, which has been minimal, in their game against us then Celtic they looked alright and played better football than we do.

I’m sure they’re not fussed regardless of what other fans think of their football, they’ve got a very winnable final to look forward to

[MWHIBBIES]

He wasn’t in charge of them when we beat them earlier in the season to be fair.

From what I’ve seen of them, which has been minimal, in their game against us then Celtic they looked alright and played better football than we do.

I’m sure they’re not fussed regardless of what other fans think of their football, they’ve got a very winnable final to look forward toHe's been in charge of them for most of the last 3 years I think. He's the one being doing all the hard work, just wasn't manager because of the fit and proper persons nonsense.


I've watched every single Livi game this season (family have an involvement with the club and we have a close family friend who's a regular in the first team) and this is just wrong. They played some utter dross under Holt earlier in the season but Martindale has done a fantastic job changing them into a pacey, passing and aggressive team.Sunday shows otherwise. Dreadful hoofball. Wouldn't last 5 minutes here playing like that.


Wouldnt say we are playing any better and recent form shows tgat esp since he started managing Livi. Has the whole squad fighting as a team and more passion unlike Ross at Hibs. But then again your happy with Ross in chargefighting 8 points behind us, thats what actually matters.

[Argylehibby]

If he's not allowed to be a Manager due to the SFAs fit and proper nonsense, then they really need to take a look at Craig Thompson ffs.

Graham Rix was manager of a club in Scotland and had served a jail term but either passed this test or the club involved got round it.

Glad to see it's gone through OK anyway though.

[Stuart93]

He's been in charge of them for most of the last 3 years I think. He's the one being doing all the hard work, just wasn't manager because of the fit and proper persons nonsense.

Sunday shows otherwise. Dreadful hoofball. Wouldn't last 5 minutes here playing like that.

fighting 8 points behind us, thats what actually matters.

So if he’s really been in charge of them for that long how do you explain their upturn in form since Martindale was appointed as manager?

We’ve been playing dreadful hoofball for long spells including the majority of the 2nd half on Saturday.

Another poster has said he’s watched most of their games since Martindale was appointed and they’ve been playing good football but you’re labelling them as a hoofball team after watching them in a single game? A semi final at that where winning is all that matters?

[Since90+2]

Playing devils advocate here but if he was foreign and was attempting to take over a club would as many folk be accepting of his past? If a foreign owner who had previously been convicted of being involved in serious organised crime and drug dealing would he be deemed fit and proper?

I'm not actually against him being allowed to manage Livingston just wondering if the fact he's Scottish and a manager as opposed to an owner helped him in this instance.

[Sylar]

He's been in charge of them for most of the last 3 years I think. He's the one being doing all the hard work, just wasn't manager because of the fit and proper persons nonsense.

Utter nonsense.


Sunday shows otherwise. Dreadful hoofball. Wouldn't last 5 minutes here playing like that.

Nobody's suggesting he's going to end up here, but one game is no basis to judge anything. Especially a cup-semi final. Just like the odd game/appearance off the bench wasn't enough for me to judge Pepe as the pish footballer he's been since moving to Arsenal...

[Since452]

Utter nonsense.



Nobody's suggesting he's going to end up here, but one game is no basis to judge anything. Especially a cup-semi final. Just like the odd game/appearance off the bench wasn't enough for me to judge Pepe as the pish footballer he's been since moving to Arsenal...

I don't think it's nonesense. It's well known he was very influential in the dressing room under Holt.

[ancient hibee]

Utter nonsense.



Nobody's suggesting he's going to end up here, but one game is no basis to judge anything. Especially a cup-semi final. Just like the odd game/appearance off the bench wasn't enough for me to judge Pepe as the pish footballer he's been since moving to Arsenal...

Not nonsense. The chairman says today that Martindale has been the driving force for five years.

[calumhibee1]

I don't think it's nonesense. It's well known he was very influential in the dressing room under Holt.

If he was that influential then there wouldn’t have been such a change in their results and style of play since he took over.

He may have had some influence, but I’d suggest it was pretty limited seeing how much of an improvement he’s made since coming in.

[Stanton Spence]

I don't think it's nonesense. It's well known he was very influential in the dressing room under Holt.Beat me to it every man and his dug knew Martingdale has been pulling the strings at livvy for the last 3 years apart from sylar

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[Sylar]

Beat me to it every man and his dug knew Martingdale has been pulling the strings at livvy for the last 3 years apart from sylar

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None of the signing decisions made in the last 3 years were anyting to do with Martindale. None of the lineups prior to him taking over as head coach were ever picked by Martindale, and ergo none of the tactics were determined by him. Occasionally providing counsel on subs, definitely - as any assistant coach would.

So where was his control? Has been an important feature in the club? Absolutely - he's been a brilliant coach that's been heavily involved in training regimes, player development etc. Pulling the strings? Not even close.

[Sylar]

Not nonsense. The chairman says today that Martindale has been the driving force for five years.

He's been an important part of the dressing room - I don't dispute that (as per earlier post). Again, knowing someone on the current board (family member) and a current player (who I won't name), I'm familiar with his role over the past few years. The notion that somehow Hopkin and Holt were mere puppets that Martindale was overseeing is a total nonsense.

[Stanton Spence]

None of the signing decisions made in the last 3 years were anyting to do with Martindale. None of the lineups prior to him taking over as head coach were ever picked by Martindale, and ergo none of the tactics were determined by him. Occasionally providing counsel on subs, definitely - as any assistant coach would.

So where was his control? Has been an important feature in the club? Absolutely - he's been a brilliant coach that's been heavily involved in training regimes, player development etc. Pulling the strings? Not even close.Ok

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[Brightside]

None of the signing decisions made in the last 3 years were anyting to do with Martindale. None of the lineups prior to him taking over as head coach were ever picked by Martindale, and ergo none of the tactics were determined by him. Occasionally providing counsel on subs, definitely - as any assistant coach would.

So where was his control? Has been an important feature in the club? Absolutely - he's been a brilliant coach that's been heavily involved in training regimes, player development etc. Pulling the strings? Not even close.

Thats wrong. Source - ex Coach and players.

[calumhibee1]

So hang on -

Martindale was the brains behind the operation yet things only picked up when he took over. How did that happen? If he was the man in charge anyway then why were they not getting these results before? He made an instant impact when he took over, why the change?

They played horrendous football at the start of the season and now play a much different style to previously. Why the sudden change if he was already in charge?

Martindale was only in a less prominent role because he wouldn’t have passed the fit and proper test - something which Livingston themselves decide and have passed him for. Why did they not do it previously rather than trying to hide him in the shadows?

Doesn’t really add up, especially when Sylar clearly has plenty contacts at the club who say otherwise..

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Martindale is a fantastic example of how you can turn your life around if given a second opportunity. Righting after wrong is never a bad idea. As for his style of football, I would see past the hoofball jibes and see it as he is getting a team of players to consistently punch above their level. I would have that kind of manager at Easter Road every season.

[hibsbollah]

It shouldn’t even be a discussion. There is no point in prison if someone like him, who is a model for rehabilitation since coming out, doesn’t get a clean slate. The SFA have for once done the right thing.

it seems to be the done thing to dislike every team that isn’t Hibs; but personally I quite like Livvy, despite that misery in 2004 (our fault for letting Stuart Lovell leave). To recover from where they were from ten years ago to where they are now is something to admire. And it sounds like they are trying to be more expansive in their style of play.

[Brightside]

It shouldn’t even be a discussion. There is no point in prison if someone like him, who is a model for rehabilitation since coming out, doesn’t get a clean slate. The SFA have for once done the right thing.

it seems to be the done thing to dislike every team that isn’t Hibs; but personally I quite like Livvy, despite that misery in 2004 (our fault for letting Stuart Lovell leave). To recover from where they were from ten years ago to where they are now is something to admire. And it sounds like they are trying to be more expansive in their style of play.

Theoretically which offence would people say NO I dont care about rehabilitation - the person shouldn't be allowed that job.

[Since90+2]

Theoretically which offence would people say NO I dont care about rehabilitation - the person shouldn't be allowed that job.

I'm sure everyone knows themselves atleast a few offences that would never be tolerated for someone trying to work in football.

[May21/05/16]

What was his crime

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[Brightside]

So hang on -

Martindale was the brains behind the operation yet things only picked up when he took over. How did that happen? If he was the man in charge anyway then why were they not getting these results before? He made an instant impact when he took over, why the change?

They played horrendous football at the start of the season and now play a much different style to previously. Why the sudden change if he was already in charge?

Martindale was only in a less prominent role because he wouldn’t have passed the fit and proper test - something which Livingston themselves decide and have passed him for. Why did they not do it previously rather than trying to hide him in the shadows?

Doesn’t really add up, especially when Sylar clearly has plenty contacts at the club who say otherwise..

They are on a great run right now....the football hasnt changed much tbh. Other teams have been poor. They werent great against us, we were just awful.

[Brightside]

What was his crime

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Large scale drug trafficking. Including heroin.

[wookie70]

Glad he has been deemed fit to continue. As to his style of football it looks at least as good as ours with a squad full of much cheaper to employ players. One of managers main jobs is to get the sum of the parts greater than its individual parts. For me Martindale, at least in his short time as manager, is doing a much better job than our boss currently is. If the rumours are to be believed that he has been pulling the strings for a while then he also has done a very good job over a decent period of time. If Ross leaves or is sacked at the end of the season then I would consider Martindale as a strong candidate.

[Stuart93]

They are on a great run right now....the football hasnt changed much tbh. Other teams have been poor. They werent great against us, we were just awful.

I’m not too sure that’s a fair comment on livi to be honest. Whilst we were poor that day I thought livi played some decent stuff

[Sylar]

Large scale drug trafficking. Including heroin.

And money-laundering associated with said trafficking.

[hibsbollah]

Theoretically which offence would people say NO I dont care about rehabilitation - the person shouldn't be allowed that job.

Saville, West, the Soham guy, I think we all would have a similar list of untouchables.

[May21/05/16]

Jesus christ drug trafficking and money laundering is heavy duty crime im surprised he passed hopefully hes moved on with his dark past as I couldn't pass him to be fit but I'm biased as I lost my brother to drugs scourge of the world drugs

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[MWHIBBIES]

Not nonsense. The chairman says today that Martindale has been the driving force for five years.

Case closed. Seriously. Its the worst kept secret in Scottish football that he has been running the show for years.

[basehibby]

Good stuff. We all lose if folk aren't allowed to rehabilitate and move on with their lives.

Fair play to David for his incredible job so far at Livi.

Absolutely - notwithstanding the drubbing they handed out to us at ER last time out, Martindale's success has been a feelgood story. He comes across well and I get the impression he has put his past behind him and genuinely values and appreciates the opportunity afforded to him to redeem himself in the eyes of the world.

Nice to see him do well and, if recent form is not just a flash in the pan, maybe a genuine football coaching gem has been unearthed?!?

[Sylar]

Case closed. Seriously. Its the worst kept secret in Scottish football that he has been running the show for years.

If you say so - I know contrary and I can't be arsed with an argument on the matter.

Oh, and Pepe is absolutely ***** by the way. Case closed. Seriously.

[MWHIBBIES]

If you say so - I know contrary and I can't be arsed with an argument on the matter.

Oh, and Pepe is absolutely ***** by the way. Case closed. Seriously.

:faf:

Someone is a bit touchy. Dunno why you keep mentioning Pepe. Bit of a strange obsession with him.

Again, I'll go with quotes from the chairman, not your mate.

[Sylar]

:faf:

Someone is a bit touchy. Dunno why you keep mentioning Pepe. Bit of a strange obsession with him.

Again, I'll go with quotes from the chairman, not your mate.

Knock yourself out (figuratively speaking - I'm not a total arse :greengrin) - language matters - I've made clear in previous posts that Martindale has yielded influence in the club but there's a MASSIVE difference between that and 'pulling the strings'.

Not an obsession - I just recall posters I have odd encounters with - it's almost like you had an alert set up to notify you everytime someone mentioned Pepe at one point. Constantly trying to convince everyone on here he was a decent player and deriding anyone with an opinion to the contrary because they hadn't watched him enough - it seemed a relevant counterpoint to you attempting to sum up Livi's entire performance history based on Sunday.

[Victor]

Does anyone know why Kenny Miller left? Must have been something as he was not there very long.


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[JimBHibees]

Does anyone know why Kenny Miller left? Must have been something as he was not there very long.


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Heard a story that Miller turned up on his first day and Martindale had organised the session with all the cones out on the pitch. Probably nonsense but quite funny nonetheless. :greengrin

[Jones28]

Saville, West, the Soham guy, I think we all would have a similar list of untouchables.

Ched Evans?

[hibsbollah]

Ched Evans?

Graeme Rix

[Victor]

Heard a story that Miller turned up on his first day and Martindale had organised the session with all the cones out on the pitch. Probably nonsense but quite funny nonetheless. :greengrin

It would appear that Martindale came with the job and Miller, had no say over an assistant. Then again he would have known that before he took the job.


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[Jones28]

Graeme Rix

Untouchable or..?

[Not In The Know]

They are on a great run right now....the football hasnt changed much tbh. Other teams have been poor. They werent great against us, we were just awful.

He kinda annoys me TBH. He thinks hes cracked this management lark when in reality hes gone on a good run against the lower ranked teams in the league. Yep i know they turned us over and drew with Celtic but some on here were greeting we could only draw with celtic...

[Liam978]

Guy served his time. He appears genuinely remorseful and accepting of the impact of his actions, wouldn't appear to be at a high risk of re offending and he's unlikely to be working directly with vulnerable groups for long periods of time. No brainer that he should be allowed to continue in his role.

A criminal record follows people throughout their lives and it's a real stigma. There are obvious cases when it should be and is a barrier to certain types of employment. I don't think this is one of those cases. Now the SFA have made their decision he should be left in peace to get on with his life and not hounded about his past every 5 minutes.

Can you honestly say that without conviction, unless you have been affected with loss of life through addiction. Then Martindales actions, especially selling to the young and ill advised. Can never be forgotten RIP.

[Since452]

Guy should be a role model for those who want to turn their life around. It can be done. He made a mistake. He learned from it and knuckled down.

[calumhibee1]

Guy should be a role model for those who want to turn their life around. It can be done. He made a mistake. He learned from it and knuckled down.

:agree:

[Stanton Spence]

I think you're being a bit naive to think he made a daft mistake. It wasn't a rush off blood one off error of judgement he made. I'm all for rehabilitation but as someone said where do you draw the line?. He was living the life of crime and lived a very good life from it for quite a while

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[Brightside]

Heard a story that Miller turned up on his first day and Martindale had organised the session with all the cones out on the pitch. Probably nonsense but quite funny nonetheless. :greengrin


Spot on.

[hibbysam]

So hang on -

Martindale was the brains behind the operation yet things only picked up when he took over. How did that happen? If he was the man in charge anyway then why were they not getting these results before? He made an instant impact when he took over, why the change?

They played horrendous football at the start of the season and now play a much different style to previously. Why the sudden change if he was already in charge?

Martindale was only in a less prominent role because he wouldn’t have passed the fit and proper test - something which Livingston themselves decide and have passed him for. Why did they not do it previously rather than trying to hide him in the shadows?

Doesn’t really add up, especially when Sylar clearly has plenty contacts at the club who say otherwise..

‘Clearly’ has contacts? Debatable. I mean I could come on a messageboard and say my uncle owns a football team but it wouldn’t be clear to everyone else. Not saying it’s not true, just picking up on the clearly part.

They still play the same style of football, sturdy defensively and play % football. Robinson running into channels, Bartley battling in the middle. Nothing has changed.

Results have changed partly due to the teams they were playing, few lower league sides in the cup and bottom 6 sides in the league to build confidence, pumped us on a horrendous day, and then got the double header against Celtic at the perfect time.

He’s worked wonders but it’s not beyond the realms to see why the improvement came and there’s nothing to suggest it wouldn’t have happened under Holt. Martindale said himself very early on that very little had changed.

[Peevemor]

Rehabilitation is obviously to be encouraged and it's great that he's turned his life around. If he can be an example to others then all the better.

I'd still have mixed feelings if he was ever to be appointed by Hibs. Just being honest.

[Pretty Boy]

Can you honestly say that without conviction, unless you have been affected with loss of life through addiction. Then Martindales actions, especially selling to the young and ill advised. Can never be forgotten RIP.

I think there's a bit of the hypocrite in all of us. I'd be far from pleased if someone like Adam Johnson pitched up at ER, regardless or whether he had been rehabilitated.

In saying that I'd argue one of the most surefire ways to force people back into a life of crime is to deny them meaningful employment. Is society better served by former criminals working in a way that is productive or sitting at home shunned by everyone around them? What heightens the chance of reoffending?

Of course you have to consider the victims and it's highly likely Martindales actions led to further crimes, family break ups, possibly even deaths and a whole load of other issues. Do we place that societal burden on one man's shoulders though? He has served the punishment part of his sentence and now appears to have made a genuine effort to show remorse for and repent for his crimes. There will always be those who argue he didn't pay quite enough, he can only do what was asked of him though and if he is living a better life now that's surely to the benefit of everyone.

[Sylar]

‘Clearly’ has contacts? Debatable. I mean I could come on a messageboard and say my uncle owns a football team but it wouldn’t be clear to everyone else. Not saying it’s not true, just picking up on the clearly part.

They still play the same style of football, sturdy defensively and play % football. Robinson running into channels, Bartley battling in the middle. Nothing has changed.

Results have changed partly due to the teams they were playing, few lower league sides in the cup and bottom 6 sides in the league to build confidence, pumped us on a horrendous day, and then got the double header against Celtic at the perfect time.

He’s worked wonders but it’s not beyond the realms to see why the improvement came and there’s nothing to suggest it wouldn’t have happened under Holt. Martindale said himself very early on that very little had changed.

Absolutely correct Sam - I am genuine but I'm also just a random name/avatar on a football messageboard and simply saying it doesn't make it so. I categorically agree with you. Nowhere near suggesting my uncle is indeed an owner for what it's worth - just a member of the board. But again, skepticism is a healthy approach to take on a board where we mostly don't know each other from Adam. Those on here who DO know me would probably verify I've had a long-standing association with Livingston and that I'm not the kind of guy that's likely to resorting to lying to win some points in a pointless argument, but again, it's easy for me to say!

[MWHIBBIES]

Good goal by Pepe tonight, his 6th of the season

[Allez Hibs]

I'd still have mixed feelings if he was ever to be appointed by Hibs. Just being honest.

Why?

If he wins the League Cup with Livingston and sustains a good run in the 2nd half of the season his stock is going to be high.

[Sylar]

Good goal by Pepe tonight, his 6th of the season

I was actually hoping you'd post when I saw he scored - I had a chuckle :greengrin

[Brightside]

Why?

If he wins the League Cup with Livingston and sustains a good run in the 2nd half of the season his stock is going to be high.

Coz he dealt drugs that kill people

[Peevemor]

Why?

If he wins the League Cup with Livingston and sustains a good run in the 2nd half of the season his stock is going to be high.It's nothing to do with do with that.

[MWHIBBIES]

I was actually hoping you'd post when I saw he scored - I had a chuckle :greengrin

:greengrin All good fun

[hibbysam]

Absolutely correct Sam - I am genuine but I'm also just a random name/avatar on a football messageboard and simply saying it doesn't make it so. I categorically agree with you. Nowhere near suggesting my uncle is indeed an owner for what it's worth - just a member of the board. But again, skepticism is a healthy approach to take on a board where we mostly don't know each other from Adam. Those on here who DO know me would probably verify I've had a long-standing association with Livingston and that I'm not the kind of guy that's likely to resorting to lying to win some points in a pointless argument, but again, it's easy for me to say!

Wasn’t doubting it at all, glad it never came over like that, just a balance to the argument.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i've quite mixed feelings re martindale, rehabilitation is all good and that but i've always been very anti-drugs and always think a dealer plays their part in giving people the tools to possibly, well....i don't really want to go there



i certainly wouldn't want him at hibernian fc, but good luck to him though

[CMurdoch]

i've quite mixed feelings re martindale, rehabilitation is all good and that but i've always been very anti-drugs and always think a dealer plays their part in giving people the tools to possibly, well....i don't really want to go there



i certainly wouldn't want him at hibernian fc, but good luck to him though

You say you are anti drugs.
What do you think of people who sell cigarettes?
One drug is illegal and one is legal but they both bring addiction & death.
Both products are sold for profit with complete disregard for the health and well being of the user.

As for Martindale, he tried to sort his financial problems with an illegal and immoral fix and came unstuck. Quickly realised he didn't like the jail and decided a criminals life wasn't for him. Had his assets confiscated and had to start again on his release. Has worked hard for the last 10 years and has earned his place back with the rest of us. I don't think there is a risk of him reoffending and pleased such a driven guy will be using that drive for good.

[Since90+2]

Coz he dealt drugs that kill people

Alcohol has killed more people in Scotland in the last decade than drugs. Cigarettes far more than both. Passive smoking kills and harms lots of people including young children. Would you support a ban on people who sell either of those in football?

What Martindale done was wrong and undoubtedly caused misery in many people's lives but it's a complex issue around how we view certain things in society simply because some men in Government decide things are legal and others not.

[Brightside]

Alcohol has killed more people in Scotland in the last decade than drugs. Cigarettes far more than both. Passive smoking kills and harms lots of people including young children. Would you support a ban on people who sell either of those in football?

What Martindale done was wrong and undoubtedly caused misery in many people's lives but it's a complex issue around how we view certain things in society simply because some men in Government decide things are legal and others not.

A cigarette argument next to Heroin is just stupid. There just isn’t a debate. Heroin is an instantly life threatening drug. There is nothing complex about it. Dealing a bit of weed and organising the sale of a huge amount of Heroin are massively different.

[Since90+2]

A cigarette argument next to Heroin is just stupid. There just isn’t a debate. Heroin is an instantly life threatening drug. There is nothing complex about it. Dealing a bit of weed and organising the sale of a huge amount of Heroin are massively different.

Surely the end result is what's ultimately the most important factor?

Smoking related deaths are 1000% higher than those related to all illegal drugs every single year.

[hibsbollah]

A cigarette argument next to Heroin is just stupid. There just isn’t a debate. Heroin is an instantly life threatening drug. There is nothing complex about it. Dealing a bit of weed and organising the sale of a huge amount of Heroin are massively different.

Id imagine if Martindales ‘business’ was involved in the distribution of heroin they were involved in the illicit tobacco trade as well, so in this context there’s really no point fighting about which is more dangerous. He was making profits out of both. (It’s fun to do though; Priti Patel was a tobacco lobbyist for years, I’d personally be ashamed if one of my kids was doing that for a career. The abuse of prescription drugs prescribed by GPS to deal with depression and anxiety is way more visible problem on the streets Edinburgh that traditional heroin use with needles etc. As ever, the stigma comes with how illegal a product is and whether it is sold to the rich or the poor, rather than the relative dangers of each product).

[Sioux]

If Martindale was manager of hertz or the huns, the 'good guy' stuff wouldn't exist.

[calumhibee1]

If Martindale was manager of hertz or the huns, the 'good guy' stuff wouldn't exist.

To be fair whoever is manager of Hearts or the Huns is never a good guy :agree:

[hibsbollah]

If Martindale was manager of hertz or the huns, the 'good guy' stuff wouldn't exist.

Obviously. As it should be.

[Greenbeard]

You say you are anti drugs.
What do you think of people who sell cigarettes?
One drug is illegal and one is legal but they both bring addiction & death.
Both products are sold for profit with complete disregard for the health and well being of the user.

As for Martindale, he tried to sort his financial problems with an illegal and immoral fix and came unstuck. Quickly realised he didn't like the jail and decided a criminals life wasn't for him. Had his assets confiscated and had to start again on his release. Has worked hard for the last 10 years and has earned his place back with the rest of us. I don't think there is a risk of him reoffending and pleased such a driven guy will be using that drive for good.
I'm no expert, and even as an ardent non-smoker I don't agree with your soft analogy with cigarettes, but it does appear that DM has worked hard and quietly over a significant period to eventually make something of his life, and contribute to society, despite his past, not instantly gain post-jail success because of his past like Boyle, Collins etc.

[Beefster]

Martingale seemingly invested a fair bit of money in Livingston early on in his association with them. What was his post-prison career (before he got involved full-time in Livingston)? All I could find on Google was ‘construction’.

[bigwheel]

Martingale seemingly invested a fair bit of money in Livingston early on in his association with them. What was his post-prison career (before he got involved full-time in Livingston)? All I could find on Google was ‘construction’.

Not that you’re implying this - but if he has invested proceeds gained from crime , that would pose quite different questions perhaps

[CropleyWasGod]

Not that you’re implying this - but if he has invested proceeds gained from crime , that would pose quite different questions perhaps

He was subject to a POC order, and paid about £130k.

[Lago]

We're football fans, hypocrisy comes with the territory.

If Hitler had invested big in Hibs, we'd have a statue of him in front of ER.
You've stretched it a bit there, but the bases of your argument is sound, I agree re fans, hypocrisy & territory.

[Greenbeard]

We're football fans, hypocrisy comes with the territory.

If Hitler had invested big in Hibs, we'd have a statue of him in front of ER.
Ultimate Slaver right enough. Like undisputed champion slaver.

[CMurdoch]

I'm no expert, and even as an ardent non-smoker I don't agree with your soft analogy with cigarettes, but it does appear that DM has worked hard and quietly over a significant period to eventually make something of his life, and contribute to society, despite his past, not instantly gain post-jail success because of his past like Boyle, Collins etc.

Who is Collins?
Boyle was a career criminal. Martindale wasn't. Fancied the easy money of crime but changed his mind as soon as he was caught.
What Martindale has is a dedication to excellence. It's a transferrable skill from organised crime to sport.

A guy called john McAvoy is the best example of turning your life around from that of the heaviest of career criminals. His story is far more interesting and incredible than Boyles and is told without gilding the lily.
McAvoy tells his story in the following long interview. Warning - it is more than two hours long but is a fastastically interesting listen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtPNh0uBfII&t=2s&ab_channel=DrRanganChatterjee

[CropleyWasGod]

Who is Collins?

L]

Hughie Collins

https://ajayclose.co.uk/in-the-company-of-wolves-hugh-collins

Another alumnus of the Special Unit in Barlinnie, like Boyle.

[CMurdoch]

Hughie Collins

https://ajayclose.co.uk/in-the-company-of-wolves-hugh-collins

Another alumnus of the Special Unit in Barlinnie, like Boyle.

Cheers, I recognise the face.
Not a patch on Boyle. Collins brain and chat are forever rooted in his old life.
I met Jimmy Boyle a couple of times. He never spoke about his old life and I wasn't stupid enough to bring it up.
Intellectual and still using a lot of the personal and business skills he had in his old life.
I find the story of John McAvoy far more interesting than both.

[Brightside]

Who is Collins?
Boyle was a career criminal. Martindale wasn't. Fancied the easy money of crime but changed his mind as soon as he was caught.
What Martindale has is a dedication to excellence. It's a transferrable skill from organised crime to sport.

A guy called john McAvoy is the best example of turning your life around from that of the heaviest of career criminals. His story is far more interesting and incredible than Boyles and is told without gilding the lily.
McAvoy tells his story in the following long interview. Warning - it is more than two hours long but is a fastastically interesting listen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtPNh0uBfII&t=2s&ab_channel=DrRanganChatterjee

Wasnt a career criminal because he got caught? :wink:

[Keith_M]

Ultimate Slaver right enough. Like undisputed champion slaver.


Thanks


:greengrin

[CMurdoch]

Wasnt a career criminal because he got caught? :wink:

Career criminals don't stop when they get caught. It's their occupation and getting caught just takes them out the game for a while. Martindale decided crime wasn't for him as soon as he got caught.

[Greenbeard]

Cheers, I recognise the face.
Not a patch on Boyle. Collins brain and chat are forever rooted in his old life.
I met Jimmy Boyle a couple of times. He never spoke about his old life and I wasn't stupid enough to bring it up.
Intellectual and still using a lot of the personal and business skills he had in his old life.
I find the story of John McAvoy far more interesting than both.
Really? While enjoying life in Marakesh and Antibes.
Met Boyle once myself and had a thankfully distant connection with one of his post-release projects. I also met one of his victims, a prison officer who lost an eye to Boyle in Inverness prison. I know where my sympathies lie.

[CMurdoch]

Really? While enjoying life in Marakesh and Antibes.
Met Boyle once myself and had a thankfully distant connection with one of his post-release projects. I also met one of his victims, a prison officer who lost an eye to Boyle in Inverness prison. I know where my sympathies lie.

I agree on the sympathies front. Boyle has had it easy. Hooked the right woman and through her set his legit career and lifestyle in motion but none of that changes what he was willing to do when his back was against the wall.

[Since90+2]

Wasnt a career criminal because he got caught? :wink:

I'm not sure you know what a career criminal is if you think they stop when they get caught.

[Keith_M]

I think Hibs should try to sign the guy up, see if he can instil some of the winning instinct that Livi currently have.


I'd certainly have no issue with that.