Does anyone else feel like this?

[Jones28]

I’m not going to pretend JR has an unblemished record, either at Hibs now or prior to joining the club. But what I will say is that, what really matters is that he has lost one big game: the sf against hearts. There is no denial that that could have meant another SC.

But I don’t know a manager in our history that hasn’t lost a big game; that hasn’t managed a perfect side; that hasn’t had defeats like tonight, or the draw against Dundee Utd, or the (****ing dreadful) loss to hearts last season before they got relegated.

This has been an exceptional year, and I just feel that 4th, by a distance above the rest...is it that bad?

Is it worth the horrible atmosphere on here after a defeat?

It’s all circumstantial yes absolutely and tonight was ****, no question, but FFS let’s be real, this is going to be a season like no other, just chill and give them a break.

We came away from a Boxing Day fixture at Ibrox aghast at not taking at least a point - may I remind you that points at Ibrox are something that only seems to have come in to fashion within the last 10 or so years?

[neil7908]

I’m not going to pretend JR has an unblemished record, either at Hibs now or prior to joining the club. But what I will say is that, what really matters is that he has lost one big game: the sf against hearts. There is no denial that that could have meant another SC.

But I don’t know a manager in our history that hasn’t lost a big game; that hasn’t managed a perfect side; that hasn’t had defeats like tonight, or the draw against Dundee Utd, or the (****ing dreadful) loss to hearts last season before they got relegated.

This has been an exceptional year, and I just feel that 4th, by a distance above the rest...is it that bad?

Is it worth the horrible atmosphere on here after a defeat?

It’s all circumstantial yes absolutely and tonight was ****, no question, but FFS let’s be real, this is going to be a season like no other, just chill and give them a break.

We came away from a Boxing Day fixture at Ibrox aghast at not taking at least a point - may I remind you that points at Ibrox are something that only seems to have come in to fashion within the last 10 or so years?

The atmosphere isn't bad on here after a defeat. There was nothing but praise for the team after the game at the weekend. Why? Because we played really well and were up against a side with x10 our budget. Hibs fans are no worse than any other team, despite what some think. They may grumble at a loss but if the team play fairly well and look focused, committed etc then this place is fine.

Games like tonight should rightly see the players and manager get stick. They have been praised plenty after the wins against Motherwell and Hamilton but tonight wasn't good enough. We played a very poor team, on a shocking run, missing key players and with a much smaller budget. And we barely laid a glove on them.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I’m not going to pretend JR has an unblemished record, either at Hibs now or prior to joining the club. But what I will say is that, what really matters is that he has lost one big game: the sf against hearts. There is no denial that that could have meant another SC.

But I don’t know a manager in our history that hasn’t lost a big game; that hasn’t managed a perfect side; that hasn’t had defeats like tonight, or the draw against Dundee Utd, or the (****ing dreadful) loss to hearts last season before they got relegated.

This has been an exceptional year, and I just feel that 4th, by a distance above the rest...is it that bad?

Is it worth the horrible atmosphere on here after a defeat?

It’s all circumstantial yes absolutely and tonight was ****, no question, but FFS let’s be real, this is going to be a season like no other, just chill and give them a break.

We came away from a Boxing Day fixture at Ibrox aghast at not taking at least a point - may I remind you that points at Ibrox are something that only seems to have come in to fashion within the last 10 or so years?

Sorry mate. I've been watching Hibs for 40 odd years and as a result I never expect us to be a certainty to win any game. But there has to come a point where you are angry about losing a game against a team bottom of the league who could barely manage a goal never mind a win until tonight. If we are going to progress we simply have to be beating Ross County at Easter Road .... When a defeat like tonight becomes acceptable, or provokes a reaction of 'oh well' followed by a shrug of the shoulders we might as well not bother having any ambition to be a better club at all.

[Jones28]

The atmosphere isn't bad on here after a defeat. There was nothing but praise for the team after the game at the weekend. Why? Because we played really well and were up against a side with x10 our budget. Hibs fans are no worse than any other team, despite what some think. They may grumble at a loss but if the team play fairly well and look focused, committed etc then this place is fine.

Games like tonight should rightly see the players and manager get stick. They have been praised plenty after the wins against Motherwell and Hamilton but tonight wasn't good enough. We played a very poor team, on a shocking run, missing key players and with a much smaller budget. And we barely laid a glove on them.

It is. It’s awful. Positivity is shot down, players are wrecked, anyone who tries to be positive is a happy clapper, it’s terrible. We laid a glove on them alright tonight; they score at a great time and yeah, we didn’t respond but ffs we were definitely the better side until the goal.

[Jones28]

Sorry mate. I've been watching Hibs for 40 odd years and as a result I never expect us to be a certainty to win any game. But there has to come a point where you are angry about losing a game against a team bottom of the league who could barely manage a goal never mind a win until tonight. If we are going to progress we simply have to be beating Ross County at Easter Road .... When a defeat like tonight becomes acceptable we might as well not bother having any ambition to be a better club at all.

Who said it was acceptable?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Who said it was acceptable?

Your OP gives exactly that impression. I've probably forgotten more Hibs games like tonight than many people on here have seen and I'm past the stage of accepting them by saying 'aye but we're 4th in the league, or we had a good performance in the game before that even if we did lose it, or by saying, aye but what Hibs manager hasn't had games like this one.

I am not suggesting a right to win games mentality, but I sure as hell am suggesting a far more meaty reaction to losing games like this one, the type of game we simply must win to mount a serious challenge for 3rd place, than we seem to have gotten from the club tonight.

[neil7908]

It is. It’s awful. Positivity is shot down, players are wrecked, anyone who tries to be positive is a happy clapper, it’s terrible. We laid a glove on them alright tonight; they score at a great time and yeah, we didn’t respond but ffs we were definitely the better side until the goal.

It really really isn't. This place is one of the tamest spots on the internet. It's a drop in the ocean compared to what would be getting said in the pub after a performance and result like tonight. If you want hysterics and negativity you just need to look at Celtic right now. No fans are outside Easter Road protesting etc.

We did OK up until their goal without creating much. After they scored we had 65 minutes to pull it back and I can't even recall their keeper making a save.

Like I said, any football fan site in the world would be full of grumbling after the kind of result and performance we've just seen. Players and manager deserve a bit of stick after that.

[B.H.F.C]

It is. It’s awful. Positivity is shot down, players are wrecked, anyone who tries to be positive is a happy clapper, it’s terrible. We laid a glove on them alright tonight; they score at a great time and yeah, we didn’t respond but ffs we were definitely the better side until the goal.

People will be positive when they see something, or they think there is something, to be positive about. Sometimes overly positive. Take the thread on Nisbet, by the time you read a few pages he’s worth £10m.

We got beat on Saturday and it was, generally, a fairly positive reaction. Tonight was rotten and the reaction reflects that.

There are a few folk at either end of the scale. Some that can’t wait to tell you how bad it is. And some (not aiming this at you really) that can’t wait to have a go at the ‘negative’ folk.

[Jones28]

Your OP gives exactly that impression. I've probably forgotten more Hibs games like tonight than many people on here have seen and I'm past the stage of accepting them by saying 'aye but we're 4th in the league, or we had a good performance in the game before that even if we did lose it, or by saying, aye but what Hibs manager hasn't had games like this one.

I am not suggesting a right to win games mentality, but I sure as hell am suggesting a far more meaty reaction to losing games like this one, the type of game we simply must win to mount a serious challenge for 3rd place, than we seem to have gotten from the club tonight.


So what do you suggest? The same **** every Hibs fan has suggested over the last 40 years? Have them running up the dunes at Gullan?

My OP didn’t say what you claim it did, it simply suggested cutting a little
slack. Circumstances are forgivable in this instance imo.

[Jones28]

It really really isn't. This place is one of the tamest spots on the internet. It's a drop in the ocean compared to what would be getting said in the pub after a performance and result like tonight. If you want hysterics and negativity you just need to look at Celtic right now. No fans are outside Easter Road protesting etc.

We did OK up until their goal without creating much. After they scored we had 65 minutes to pull it back and I can't even recall their keeper making a save.

Like I said, any football fan site in the world would be full of grumbling after the kind of result and performance we've just seen. Players and manager deserve a bit of stick after that.

I’d rather not look at Celtic thanks, I find it a tad pathetic that this team cannot be cut a bit of slack, that’s all. The happy clappers will do their thing, but **** me negativity on the board sometimes feels overwhelming.

[Jones28]

People will be positive when they see something, or they think there is something, to be positive about. Sometimes overly positive. Take the thread on Nisbet, by the time you read a few pages he’s worth £10m.

We got beat on Saturday and it was, generally, a fairly positive reaction. Tonight was rotten and the reaction reflects that.

There are a few folk at either end of the scale. Some that can’t wait to tell you how bad it is. And some (not aiming this at you really) that can’t wait to have a go at the ‘negative’ folk.

Tonight was poor, but the unwillingness to take any positive from the game before the goal is just looking for problems that rarely exist

[cabbageandribs1875]

happyclapper is a tad more tame than the word used to describe those quite negative posters, "Bedwetter" :rolleyes: i mean c'mon ffs get new patter, cringe...











:)

[matty_f]

Folk provably won’t be surprised to read that i agree with the OP. Yes, tonight was rank. Up there with our worst performances under Ross, but we have been having a good season and hitting a pretty good standard in most matches.

I don’t think many of us could look objectively at the game tonight because we’re all passionate about Hibs, we all have hopes and expectations and that performance fell well short of those, so it’s understandable that there’ll be a reaction.

Whether the reaction is proportionate is another story, right enough.

[Jones28]

happyclapper is a tad more tame than the word used to describe those quite negative posters, "Bedwetter" :rolleyes: i mean c'mon ffs get new patter, cringe...











:)
I never said bedwetter 😜

[cabbageandribs1875]

I never said bedwetter ��


apologies i should have been more clear, i did mean the match day thread/s, i just saw someone using the happyclapper label :)

[NAE NOOKIE]

So what do you suggest? The same **** every Hibs fan has suggested over the last 40 years? Have them running up the dunes at Gullan?

My OP didn’t say what you claim it did, it simply suggested cutting a little
slack. Circumstances are forgivable in this instance imo.

Why are they forgivable? Ross County played a game on Saturday afternoon in appalling conditions in which they had two men sent off and lost two goals in the last 15 minutes. In their previous 10 league fixtures they had achieved a total of two draws ( one of them against Hibs ) scored a total of 3 ( three ) goals and conceded 22.
I'm willing to bet they didn't jet down to Edinburgh airport and spend the night in the Hilton before rocking up at Easter Road, more likely they got on a bus in Dingwall at 2pm for the 3 to 4 hour trip to Edinburgh.

If losing in those circumstances is 'forgivable' then I can only guess what your definition of unforgivable is.

[Smartie]

In Ross' favour it would be fair to point out that this result is a bit of a shock.

Results like this were commonplace under other managers.

They're never acceptable but if we're looking back on the calendar year of 2020, how many absolutely bogging results and performances have we had? The two derbies and tonight? We've had defeats, we've had weak performances and the odd bad result but those ones stand out. We finish the year in 4th and a cup semi final.

It can never be "acceptable" to lose and play the way we did tonight, but somewhere along the way we have to "accept" that it happens from time to time.

What would be really unacceptable would be for it to launch us into a tailspin of poor results - and what would certainly provide perspective would be if we went on to put it behind us and put a chain of decent results together.

[NAE NOOKIE]

In Ross' favour it would be fair to point out that this result is a bit of a shock.

Results like this were commonplace under other managers.

They're never acceptable but if we're looking back on the calendar year of 2020, how many absolutely bogging results and performances have we had? The two derbies and tonight? We've had defeats, we've had weak performances and the odd bad result but those ones stand out. We finish the year in 4th and a cup semi final.

It can never be "acceptable" to lose and play the way we did tonight, but somewhere along the way we have to "accept" that it happens from time to time.

What would be really unacceptable would be for it to launch us into a tailspin of poor results - and what would certainly provide perspective would be if we went on to put it behind us and put a chain of decent results together.

I think what is annoying is that it came on the back of a very good performance at Ibrox where we were actually pinning them back in the last 15 minutes, Hibs were rightly praised for that performance. It should have been a catalyst for a decent performance tonight instead of which we got that. It's the lack of consistency that's so annoying where we seem to follow a decent result with a poor one, or a decent performance with a poor one.

[Wakeyhibee]

Agree with the OP. Forums tend to amplify sentiments good or bad.

I said at the outset of this season that theres not much between 8 or 9 teams. All bar the OF squads are thin on the ground.

We got off to a flier to start, even with what I thought were average performances at best. On the whole that has improved and the record shows results are better than the vast majority of the last 20 years.

I still think it's too early to say 4th is a gimme, even with the cushion we have. A couple of injuries and suspensions could prove a bigger swing than in other seasons for any team outside the OF.

The fixtures have been kinder than normal this festive period and we've had great results away from home making it harder to fathom our home form.

If someone said clear in 4th at New Year back in August I'd have taken that.

[Stuart93]

Tonight was poor, but the unwillingness to take any positive from the game before the goal is just looking for problems that rarely exist

This is so far fetched to me it seems like trolling

We’ve just been spanked 2-0 by a team who hadn’t won in 13 games (I think), who were missing two of their regular starters to suspension and also probably their best player in Ross Stewart.

We were rank rotten, there was no pace or urgency to our game. We barely made their goalie work all night.

Yet you’re wondering why people can’t take the positives from before Ross county scored? This is honestly up there with one of the most happy clapping posts I’ve seen in a while.

FWIW I genuinely don’t think 4th in the league, having seen the quality of the teams below us, is a massive achievement thus far. I’m not denying we don’t deserve to be there and we have had some cracking results so far but our position is heavily aided by how poor the quality of the league is this season. You’re missing both a decent Motherwell & decent Killie team. Livi have only started finding form. 3 teams who’re usually roundabout us or have been recently

[Hibs90]

I’m not going to pretend JR has an unblemished record, either at Hibs now or prior to joining the club. But what I will say is that, what really matters is that he has lost one big game: the sf against hearts. There is no denial that that could have meant another SC.

But I don’t know a manager in our history that hasn’t lost a big game; that hasn’t managed a perfect side; that hasn’t had defeats like tonight, or the draw against Dundee Utd, or the (****ing dreadful) loss to hearts last season before they got relegated.

This has been an exceptional year, and I just feel that 4th, by a distance above the rest...is it that bad?

Is it worth the horrible atmosphere on here after a defeat?

It’s all circumstantial yes absolutely and tonight was ****, no question, but FFS let’s be real, this is going to be a season like no other, just chill and give them a break.

We came away from a Boxing Day fixture at Ibrox aghast at not taking at least a point - may I remind you that points at Ibrox are something that only seems to have come in to fashion within the last 10 or so years?

He has lost more than one big game for starters. If our away form drops we are going to drop a considerable amount of points. Everything doesn’t have to be all positive and happy all of the time just for the sake of it. End of the day fans have paid money for season tickets and when you are served with dire football and 3 home wins almost halfway through a season then they are quite right to moan about it.

[hibbydog]

Tonight was poor, but the unwillingness to take any positive from the game before the goal is just looking for problems that rarely exist

Positives from tonight? There aren’t any.

Overall I think we are a decent side, but inconsistent and lacking in the big games (old firm/ derbies/ Aberdeen). Jack Ross has done ok - 4th in the league is about level par. Solid but nothing more when you consider budgets.

The problem is we should be steam rolling wee teams like Ross County at home and we don’t. This happens far too often and it’s nowhere near good enough.

[660]

Positives from tonight? There aren’t any.

Overall I think we are a decent side, but inconsistent and lacking in the big games (old firm/ derbies/ Aberdeen). Jack Ross has done ok - 4th in the league is about level par. Solid but nothing more when you consider budgets.

The problem is we should be steam rolling wee teams like Ross County at home and we don’t. This happens far too often and it’s nowhere near good enough.

4th is above par for the 30 years I’ve supported hibs. Hibs will never steam roller teams like Ross county unless hibs have been taken over by a billionaire. Barcelona and Real Madrid don’t beat the dross in their league on every occasion.

[jacomo]

I’m not going to pretend JR has an unblemished record, either at Hibs now or prior to joining the club. But what I will say is that, what really matters is that he has lost one big game: the sf against hearts. There is no denial that that could have meant another SC.

But I don’t know a manager in our history that hasn’t lost a big game; that hasn’t managed a perfect side; that hasn’t had defeats like tonight, or the draw against Dundee Utd, or the (****ing dreadful) loss to hearts last season before they got relegated.

This has been an exceptional year, and I just feel that 4th, by a distance above the rest...is it that bad?

Is it worth the horrible atmosphere on here after a defeat?

It’s all circumstantial yes absolutely and tonight was ****, no question, but FFS let’s be real, this is going to be a season like no other, just chill and give them a break.

We came away from a Boxing Day fixture at Ibrox aghast at not taking at least a point - may I remind you that points at Ibrox are something that only seems to have come in to fashion within the last 10 or so years?


I’m with you.

If nothing else, this year has surely put football in perspective. In context, Hibs are not in a bad place.

I’ve no problem with people letting off steam though, if that’s what they need to do after a poor defeat, especially as the option of going to the pub for a few isn’t open to us. The match day thread serves that purpose.

However, we are going to finish 2020 in 4th place and in the LC semi final. It’s not amazing but it’s far from terrible.

[Coach Jon]

I’m not going to pretend JR has an unblemished record, either at Hibs now or prior to joining the club. But what I will say is that, what really matters is that he has lost one big game: the sf against hearts. There is no denial that that could have meant another SC.

But I don’t know a manager in our history that hasn’t lost a big game; that hasn’t managed a perfect side; that hasn’t had defeats like tonight, or the draw against Dundee Utd, or the (****ing dreadful) loss to hearts last season before they got relegated.

This has been an exceptional year, and I just feel that 4th, by a distance above the rest...is it that bad?

Is it worth the horrible atmosphere on here after a defeat?

It’s all circumstantial yes absolutely and tonight was ****, no question, but FFS let’s be real, this is going to be a season like no other, just chill and give them a break.

We came away from a Boxing Day fixture at Ibrox aghast at not taking at least a point - may I remind you that points at Ibrox are something that only seems to have come in to fashion within the last 10 or so years?

I will quote Kenny Dalglish in reply to this post;
" You show me a good loser, and I will show you a loser"
The culture and mentality needs to change.

[calumhibee1]

The atmosphere isn't bad on here after a defeat. There was nothing but praise for the team after the game at the weekend. Why? Because we played really well and were up against a side with x10 our budget. Hibs fans are no worse than any other team, despite what some think. They may grumble at a loss but if the team play fairly well and look focused, committed etc then this place is fine.

Games like tonight should rightly see the players and manager get stick. They have been praised plenty after the wins against Motherwell and Hamilton but tonight wasn't good enough. We played a very poor team, on a shocking run, missing key players and with a much smaller budget. And we barely laid a glove on them.

:agree:

Agree with every word of this.

If the atmosphere on here is bad after a defeat then it’s probably because it’s been a shocking defeat like last night. Not because Hibs have the most negative fans in the world as some seem desperate to have people believe.

[JohnM1875]

4th is above par for the 30 years I’ve supported hibs. Hibs will never steam roller teams like Ross county unless hibs have been taken over by a billionaire. Barcelona and Real Madrid don’t beat the dross in their league on every occasion.

Forth is exactly level par for this season. This isn't the past thirty years. It's a season without Hearts and other teams in the league on poor form.

Forth should be the minimum we and I'm almost certain Jack Ross and the board will be aiming for. And we're achieving that right now. We're also close to third, albeit Aberdeen have two games in hand.

[Key West]

Constructive criticism can be positive, Hibs have been inconsistent individually and collectively, this is part of the process of building a better team, there will be more nights like Wednesday, hopefully not as many.

[B.H.F.C]

Tonight was poor, but the unwillingness to take any positive from the game before the goal is just looking for problems that rarely exist

Sometimes you can take a positive from defeat, like we did from Ibrox.

Talking about positives from before the goal last night though? That’s stretching it. We passed the ball about and won a few corners, that was about as good as it got. I think you’re looking for things that didn’t exist last night, no the other way round!

[calumhibee1]

Tonight was poor, but the unwillingness to take any positive from the game before the goal is just looking for problems that rarely exist

What were the positives last night?

[Northernhibee]

I will quote Kenny Dalglish in reply to this post;
" You show me a good loser, and I will show you a loser"
The culture and mentality needs to change.

Show me a bad loser and I'll also show you a loser, but one that will lose time and time again.

There are way too many people who correlate "bad loser" with "born winner". I bloody hate losing. Last night was frustrating and anger inducing, but if you keep the mindset of negativity about it, you'll spiral into a series of bad results.

The best sportspeople, businesspeople and the like let that anger or frustration pass when they fail, but learn from it, improve and approach the next challenge with a clean slate. When Lewis Hamilton lost the title to Nico Rosberg back in 2016 he bounced back the following season and has been even more dominant than ever before. There was no throwing of toys out of the pram, no strops or tantrums, he just learned lessons from it and got better. Same when Liverpool lost the title by 1pt to Man City, they learned, got better and dominated last season to a level barely seen before.

Klopp, Hamilton, Ferguson, all the best in their fields love winning by far more than they hate losing and will let the prospect of success motivate them rather than let the weight of failure be a millstone in their future efforts.

Last night was a really poor performance, but it wasn't the same Ross County who found themselves bottom of the league - they changed their manager, someone who clearly did their homework on us, negated our threats and got the results. Did that make me feel better about the result last night - no, does that make me less excited about the next game up, no. It's a chance to make amends.

This will look as if I'm having a go at another poster on this thread and I promise it isn't, but the word "unforgiveable" has been used on this thread to describe last nights result and that's a word that carries itself over to future games. If we win the league cup and finish 3rd, does anyone not think that last night will be forgiven? Of course not.

Constructive criticism is a vital and important part of a discussion forum as it's healthy and it involves learning. You're quite right that the culture and mindset has to change though as last night hasn't suddenly turned a good Hibs team bad and there are way too many people who would have you think that it has.

[Ronniekirk]

We were down to the bare bones last night and maybe some players were jaded after the effort put in against The Rangers
But we just didn’t look capable of beating a team at the bottom of the league and who had t scored in five games
It was a largely one paced insiped performance which showed just how easy it is to play against us at home
It was unacceptable and hope Ross has come out and said that
Aberdeen now have so many games in hand they will go third at some point
Third place was there for the taking but unless we can do something exceptional in transfer window that will be beyond us with our home form
Ross has had long enough to realise the issues and sort them out
Mcgennis in midfield Was a miss But he has a history of injuries and was just coming back from a nasty one at st Mirren
If he had been fully fit a five year contract would of been an investment But he has been out injured twice already so that investment remain s a risk at present
Hanlon is now making mistakes that are costing us goals which are leading to us not winning games
Yogi new how we would play and set them up and motivated them to put in a performance
We could of cemented third place with another home game to look forward to against a team below us in the league But now we are going to be under pressure in that game
Hopefully we go on and win it but you wouldn’t bet on it



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ronniekirk]

Why are they forgivable? Ross County played a game on Saturday afternoon in appalling conditions in which they had two men sent off and lost two goals in the last 15 minutes. In their previous 10 league fixtures they had achieved a total of two draws ( one of them against Hibs ) scored a total of 3 ( three ) goals and conceded 22.
I'm willing to bet they didn't jet down to Edinburgh airport and spend the night in the Hilton before rocking up at Easter Road, more likely they got on a bus in Dingwall at 2pm for the 3 to 4 hour trip to Edinburgh.

If losing in those circumstances is 'forgivable' then I can only guess what your definition of unforgivable is.

Well said you can’t defend the Undefendable If we bounce back and beat Livi I will praise the team ,but Ross seems to be making the same mistakes at home with how we set up and teams know how to play us and get a result


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Modfather]

Not sure there’s much merit/explanation in the exertion at Ibrox for the performance last night. Ross County played 60 minutes with 10 men and 30 with 9 men while we were at Ibrox. They also had a couple of suspensions and missing their best player.

Let’s not force the positives, there weren’t any last night. Like others, I agree the general mood of the board is reflective of the performance, as it was on Boxing Day. The vocal minority that go to extremes isn’t, as is always the case, reflect the general messageboard.

[Sir David Gray]

What were the positives last night?

The game only lasted 90 minutes?
I could turn off as soon as the game finished and didn't face a 1 hour drive home?

:dunno:

[Pretty Boy]

There were plenty positives to be taken from Ibrox. We gave the best side in the league one of their toughest challenges at home this season.

Last night we got turned over by the worst team in the league and were pedestrian throughout.

Hibs fans will give out praise when it's merited, often going way OTT. Hibs fans will criticise when it's merited, often going way OTT. Last night was pish, I'll have a moan about it then move on to the next game; the same as 99.9% of people will.

[B.H.F.C]

You're quite right that the culture and mindset has to change though as last night hasn't suddenly turned a good Hibs team bad and there are way too many people who would have you think that it has.

Hearts games aside, I don’t think people’s reaction is based on a single game. I think there are a lot of people still to be convinced this is a good Hibs side though.

I still think we will finish a comfortable fourth as I don’t think there is anyone below us that’ll be good enough or consistent enough to close the gap and push us. Likewise, the last few games have probably convinced me we won’t really push anyone above us.

Even in games we’ve won this year people haven’t been convinced. Whilst I think we’ve done all right, the overall standard of the league is well down this year. I still think we’ve got a bit to go to be a good Hibs team (a league cup win would help).

[Brightside]

Every single player was poor. No excuses. We looked knackered or uninterested. Which is worrying.

[Northernhibee]

Hearts games aside, I don’t think people’s reaction is based on a single game. I think there are a lot of people still to be convinced this is a good Hibs side though.

I still think we will finish a comfortable fourth as I don’t think there is anyone below us that’ll be good enough or consistent enough to close the gap and push us. Likewise, the last few games have probably convinced me we won’t really push anyone above us.

Even in games we’ve won this year people haven’t been convinced. Whilst I think we’ve done all right, the overall standard of the league is well down this year. I still think we’ve got a bit to go to be a good Hibs team (a league cup win would help).

Thing is, we've faced the exact same challenges that have caused some teams to regress. You can only really judge yourselves against your competition to some extent and we've stood up to that test.

It's a good Hibs team who are a bit threadbare and fatigued just now, but compared to those around us we've handled this year - largely - very well.

[Roxyhibee]

OP is at it 😂

Jack Ross is steadily creating one of the softest Hibs teams I have witnessed - and I’ve been subjected to many in 60 years. We have a Captain who can play some nice stuff now and then, but folds under any bit of pressure. Just like the players round him. We never see him in the refs ear protecting his players from poor decisions and constant fouling - and we rarely see him vocalising his fellow players to up their game. We have a very experienced left back who is the exact same in nature.

If we accept that, then we accept losing points in the last minute of games when we need to just see things out and we accept being bullied regularly by our rivals and other teams from the bottom half of the league who are willing to work hard and get in our faces. Crashing at home every other week is definitely not a healthy indicator.

We have some good footballers and can play nice stuff when given a bit space by the opposition but anyone who thinks we are making progress just because we are sitting 4th in a strange season like this is fooling themselves. This team severely lacks spine and doesn’t have one leader on the park and saying “chill out and give them a break” is perpetuating mediocrity or trolling.

[B.H.F.C]

Thing is, we've faced the exact same challenges that have caused some teams to regress. You can only really judge yourselves against your competition to some extent and we've stood up to that test.

It's a good Hibs team who are a bit threadbare and fatigued just now, but compared to those around us we've handled this year - largely - very well.

We’ve had the same challenges, but we’ve been able to invest in the team to an extent that very few of the teams we’re up against have. With the exception of Nisbet (and probably Gogic) we’ve not really seen enough from what we invested player wise in the summer, unfortunately.

We’re ending then year in a pretty decent position, probably wherever should be. No better, no less for me.

[bingo70]

OP is at it 😂

Jack Ross is steadily creating one of the softest Hibs teams I have witnessed - and I’ve been subjected to many in 60 years. We have a Captain who can play some nice stuff now and then, but folds under any bit of pressure. Just like the players round him. We never see him in the refs ear protecting his players from poor decisions and constant fouling - and we rarely see him vocalising his fellow players to up their game. We have a very experienced left back who is the exact same in nature.

If we accept that, then we accept losing points in the last minute of games when we need to just see things out and we accept being bullied regularly by our rivals and other teams from the bottom half of the league who are willing to work hard and get in our faces. Crashing at home every other week is definitely not a healthy indicator.

We have some good footballers and can play nice stuff when given a bit space by the opposition but anyone who thinks we are making progress just because we are sitting 4th in a strange season like this is fooling themselves. This team severely lacks spine and doesn’t have one leader on the park and saying “chill out and give them a break” is perpetuating mediocrity or trolling.

I really like Paul Hanlon so I don’t like to criticise him but I agree with much of what you’re saying. Really wasn’t any leaders on the park last night. I think that may be why he brought on Stephen Mcginn as he was maybe a bit more likely to try and grab the game by the scruff of the neck. Never happened though.

I know we’re 4th but I personally don’t think we’re a good team. That’s not knee jerk based on last night either, I’ve thought that for a while.

[The Count]

No buts that was a bad result and yes our home form aint good. Why ??? Still thing we need to toughen up our team.Big game now versus Livvy.If a good bid came in for Boyle and Jack was given the cash to strengthen the squad i would be tempted.I know many will disagree but its a team game.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What were the positives last night?
Aberdeen didn’t close the gap ;)

[1648]

Totally agree we need a player who is a captain. Have said in the past that the last proper captain we had was the manager of Ross County.
We are a very quiet team.

[hibbydog]

4th is above par for the 30 years I’ve supported hibs. Hibs will never steam roller teams like Ross county unless hibs have been taken over by a billionaire. Barcelona and Real Madrid don’t beat the dross in their league on every occasion.

Last 30 years show we have been under achieving. We’re the 4th biggest club in the league. We should be up there in the European spots every season. .

Hibs should always steam roller tiny little clubs with 1/4 of the budget.

[WhileTheChief..]

We bang on about our great setup and facilities etc. and our budget is vastly greater than every team below us.

4th in the league is where I expect us to be this season so I don't really see it as an achievement.

The football has been mostly crap to watch but results in the main have been decent.

I like JR and most of the players but if I'm honest I don't rate many of them too highly. I think we will stumble along to the end of the season and finish where we are now.

I was optimistic about the cup but I just don't think we'll be up for it on the day.

As for a horrible atmosphere on here after a defeat I don't see it. I see some folk giving their opinions and maybe going a bit OTT now and then but it means nothing to me.

It's been like that for as long as I can remember on here and every message board across the globe will be the same after a defeat.

[LeithMike]

Hibs should always steam roller tiny little clubs with 1/4 of the budget.

Dont agree with this. On that basis we should never be able to get a result off the old firm. Would you accept that?

With good management, teams can always be more than the sum of their parts.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[flash]

Last 30 years show we have been under achieving. We’re the 4th biggest club in the league. We should be up there in the European spots every season. .

Hibs should always steam roller tiny little clubs with 1/4 of the budget.
If that last sentence were true bookmakers wouldn't exist.

[h1bs4life]

Totally agree we need a player who is a captain. Have said in the past that the last proper captain we had was the manager of Ross County.
We are a very quiet team.

David Gray when fit was a proper captain , my personal opinion is that Hanlon is to timid to be a centre half never mind captain.
With Gray and McGregor unlikely to start games I also think it is time to move on Hanlon and Stevenson as well.

Jack Ross who I like as a manager seems to be unable to set up a team to win home games , away games set up is fine. Glad the semi final is not at Easter Road.

[Brightside]

David Gray when fit was a proper captain , my personal opinion is that Hanlon is to timid to be a centre half never mind captain.
With Gray and McGregor unlikely to start games I also think it is time to move on Hanlon and Stevenson as well.

Jack Ross who I like as a manager seems to be unable to set up a team to win home games , away games set up is fine. Glad the semi final is not at Easter Road.

Hanlon is the best CH we have had for at least 10 years. He’s also had a great season overall.

[JimboHibs]

Last 30 years show we have been under achieving. We’re the 4th biggest club in the league. We should be up there in the European spots every season. .

Hibs should always steam roller tiny little clubs with 1/4 of the budget.

Past 30 years .....You think we're the only club allegedly under achieving.

Give me an example outwith the old firm of any of the so called bigger clubs over achieving in the past 30 years or even achieving.There was a post on here about culture and mentality change,how can that happen when the league itself suppresse's any chance of growth,look at Hamilton for example earned promotion to the top division and have they grown as a club or been successful,they just want to finish anywhere but bottom.
Its not just a shift in mentality at Hibs thats required its the whole league set up.

[Stuart93]

Hanlon is the best CH we have had for at least 10 years. He’s also had a great season overall.

We’ve not had many great CH’s in the last ten years really though have we?

[calumhibee1]

Aberdeen didn’t close the gap ;)

True!

Without meaning to be overly negative I’m really toiling to see where there was any positives last night. We were absolutely abysmal.

[B.H.F.C]

I really like Paul Hanlon so I don’t like to criticise him but I agree with much of what you’re saying. Really wasn’t any leaders on the park last night. I think that may be why he brought on Stephen Mcginn as he was maybe a bit more likely to try and grab the game by the scruff of the neck. Never happened though.

I know we’re 4th but I personally don’t think we’re a good team. That’s not knee jerk based on last night either, I’ve thought that for a while.

There has been a bit of talk about us being all right if we get the first goal and, the more the season goes, the more it’s becoming apparent. I think we’ve only picked up couple of points from losing positions, we’ve lost every time we’ve lost the first goal in a league game.

To me, there is a lack of character there when things go against us. I don’t think there is anyone capable of dragging the rest along when it’s needed.

[calumhibee1]

We’ve not had many great CH’s in the last ten years really though have we?

Ambrose was superb at us and imo streets ahead of Hanlon and Porteous.

[JohnM1875]

Ambrose was superb at us and imo streets ahead of Hanlon and Porteous.

Said the same to my mates in the WhatsApp group last night, it's games like that where you really miss Ambrose. Wish he'd stayed. But obviously didn't.

[Coco Bryce]

At the end of the day. 4 points at ER against St Mirren, Dundee Utd and Ross County is simply just not good enough.

[Stuart93]

Ambrose was superb at us and imo streets ahead of Hanlon and Porteous.

Ah yes, forgot about Efe. He absolutely was

[G B Young]

I’m not going to pretend JR has an unblemished record, either at Hibs now or prior to joining the club. But what I will say is that, what really matters is that he has lost one big game: the sf against hearts. There is no denial that that could have meant another SC.

But I don’t know a manager in our history that hasn’t lost a big game; that hasn’t managed a perfect side; that hasn’t had defeats like tonight, or the draw against Dundee Utd, or the (****ing dreadful) loss to hearts last season before they got relegated.

This has been an exceptional year, and I just feel that 4th, by a distance above the rest...is it that bad?

Is it worth the horrible atmosphere on here after a defeat?

It’s all circumstantial yes absolutely and tonight was ****, no question, but FFS let’s be real, this is going to be a season like no other, just chill and give them a break.

We came away from a Boxing Day fixture at Ibrox aghast at not taking at least a point - may I remind you that points at Ibrox are something that only seems to have come in to fashion within the last 10 or so years?

You could argue the defeat to Hearts wasn't a particularly big game bearing in mind it was against a Championship side :wink:

I do agree with a lot of what you say though. His win ratio is excellent and under Ross we win a lot more games (especially away from home) that we would have struggled in under previous managers. Last night was the first time this season we've had a really poor result against a team you wouldn't expect us to lose at home to. If we can shake it off quickly it will go down as just one of irritating things that happen every so often. Overall though, fourth place and a League Cup semi to look forward to at this stage of the season is good going IMHO.

[h1bs4life]

[QUOTE=Brightside;6400957]Hanlon is the best CH we have had for at least 10 years. He’s also had a great season overall.[/QUOTE

Not much as he has been there 10 years as it is.
A great season ? as long as you don't count the last 2 games where he has cost us goals

[jacomo]

OP is at it 😂

Jack Ross is steadily creating one of the softest Hibs teams I have witnessed - and I’ve been subjected to many in 60 years. We have a Captain who can play some nice stuff now and then, but folds under any bit of pressure. Just like the players round him. We never see him in the refs ear protecting his players from poor decisions and constant fouling - and we rarely see him vocalising his fellow players to up their game. We have a very experienced left back who is the exact same in nature.

If we accept that, then we accept losing points in the last minute of games when we need to just see things out and we accept being bullied regularly by our rivals and other teams from the bottom half of the league who are willing to work hard and get in our faces. Crashing at home every other week is definitely not a healthy indicator.

We have some good footballers and can play nice stuff when given a bit space by the opposition but anyone who thinks we are making progress just because we are sitting 4th in a strange season like this is fooling themselves. This team severely lacks spine and doesn’t have one leader on the park and saying “chill out and give them a break” is perpetuating mediocrity or trolling.


I mean, this is the sort of hyperbolic nonsense the OP was probably referring to.

By all means vent your anger at the team during the match. Keep it going for an hour or two afterwards if it helps. But to post this the morning after is well over the top.

[wookie70]

Hanlon is the best CH we have had for at least 10 years. He’s also had a great season overall. I agree with that and I also think he can be a good captain on occasion but last night wasn't one of those. He isn't a shouter and pointer he sometimes does his captaining by literally driving the team forward taking more chances and getting us up the park. We were in dire need of that endeavour and energy last night but there was no spark. He and the rest of the team just looked like they were going through the motions in a last day at school before the holidays type of mood.

[Jones28]

What were the positives last night?

We were well on top in the first half, some of the passing was good and I thought the centre half’s used the ball well.

I’m struggling to think of others tbh but my post was more of a comment on the total meltdowns we get on here after a defeat. A lot of the time after loosing big games in particular we get threads appearing called “perspective required” or something, I guess this could be considered something similar to that.

It’s just unnecessary, a lot of the criticism isn’t even constructive, it’s just “get rid, not good enough, didn’t try” etc etc. and it’s tiresome to read through pages of it.

For example, my main criticism of last night was that Ross dropped Gogic for Doidge, leaving them a spare man in the middle of the park. He should have kept the same team from the Rangers game that worked so well and would have deserved a point. That’s criticism but there’s meat on the bone. I’m not pretending I’m Alex Ferguson, I’m saying what others have said and what I saw on the TV and that’s the main reason we lost imo.

[Jones28]

I mean, this is the sort of hyperbolic nonsense the OP was probably referring to.

By all means vent your anger at the team during the match. Keep it going for an hour or two afterwards if it helps. But to post this the morning after is well over the top.

Exactly Jacomo, the knee jerk is just ****ing ridiculous I’m surprised he’s still got two feet (no offence intended if the OP has not got two feet 😂).

[Jones28]

I hope everyone is appreciating the irony of an OP that is critical of knee jerk reactions has in fact been fleshed out with a lot of what the thread is criticising in the first place.

[JimBHibees]

Totally agree we need a player who is a captain. Have said in the past that the last proper captain we had was the manager of Ross County.
We are a very quiet team.

Did Yogi not captain us when we were relegated? Leadership is in many different forms. Personally think we should be in refs ears more as it's what apparently works in this league and to be honest think there is an element of refs only happy to do us over.

[Jones28]

Did Yogi not captain us when we were relegated? Leadership is in many different forms. Personally think we should be in refs ears more as it's what apparently works in this league and to be honest think there is an element of refs only happy to do us over.

Yepp. He shouted though so that’s good captaining.

[The 90+2]

Bamba and McGregor much better than Hanlon. Porto is better now too.

[The 90+2]

Did Yogi not captain us when we were relegated? Leadership is in many different forms. Personally think we should be in refs ears more as it's what apparently works in this league and to be honest think there is an element of refs only happy to do us over.

Who was captain last time we got relegated?

[Northernhibee]

Who was captain last time we got relegated?

Liam Craig, who got a lot of criticism from here for constantly moaning at the ref.

[Anthony Soprano]

Tonight was poor, but the unwillingness to take any positive from the game before the goal is just looking for problems that rarely exist

What positives can be taken from that game mate? We had 10 minutes where we dominated possession and barely managed a decent attempt at goal all night against a piss poor goalkeeper, County go up the pitch for the first time after 25 minutes and score with their first shot.

You talk about cutting players slack, for what? People say about how good a season we're having but all the teams below us have a smaller budget and any further down the table would be disappointing.

Last nights performance was utterly gutless.

[h1bs4life]

I mean, this is the sort of hyperbolic nonsense the OP was probably referring to.

By all means vent your anger at the team during the match. Keep it going for an hour or two afterwards if it helps. But to post this the morning after is well over the top.

While the post was over the top , can you tell me what the cut off point is after another poor performance ? 2 or 3 hours and then positive posts only .
Seems just like after the semi final defeat when certain posters were telling us it's just a one off , these things happen etc.
How dare anybody qestion the mentality / leadership of the team.

[Greenbeard]

The reality is that over the course of a season some poor performances and as a consequence poor results are inevitable. We will also put in some poor performances but sneak a result and some good performances without just reward per Ipox. That will always be the way of things.
Plenty fair points made on here about various contributory factors as to why last night was both a poor performance and a poor result. And whilst there is also, as ever, an expectation level from many which is unrealistic, that doesn't mean you can't bump your gums, or tan the keyboard, to vent your frustration and comment on what you think contributed to last night being one of our poor poor games.
Any good coach will tell you that if you focus on consistent performance, ultimately the results will take care of themselves but I do agree that there is perhaps some credence to the "good loser is a loser" theory and too much praise for the performance in losing to the Huns potentially affecting some players' mindset going into what was, by comparison, a far easier game, allied with insufficient or ineffective on-pitch leadership to get the sleeves rolled up. I've thought it before that with our playing resources stretched during a very busy spell, it sometimes looks as if we are trying to pace ourselves through some of these games by just doing enough.
Said it elsewhere recently, that too many folk have already been taking it for granted that we are guaranteed European football next season. We are in a strong position to do so (averaging around 7 points from every 4 games normally gets you 3rd place) but as last night showed it is far from guaranteed. I'll hang on to the hope that we might not be too far away from Magennis, Murphy, Mallan and Allan bolstering the midfield options for the rest of the season, with Wright and Hallberg, who have had their chances and failed to shine, dropping to become injury cover only. But I am nervous for the Livingston game given their winning run, positive mindset and midweek rest. A win will be a big result for us and tbh at the moment I'd happily settle for a draw, then a much needed wee break to re-energise.

[JimBHibees]

At the end of the day. 4 points at ER against St Mirren, Dundee Utd and Ross County is simply just not good enough.

Absolutely the points return isn't good enough however only one game performance wise wasn't good enough.

[Roxyhibee]

I mean, this is the sort of hyperbolic nonsense the OP was probably referring to.

By all means vent your anger at the team during the match. Keep it going for an hour or two afterwards if it helps. But to post this the morning after is well over the top.

Maybe you’d like to read my constructive comments again to prevent having a very obvious knee jerk reaction of your own.

Please tell me where the hyperbole is in analysing why our team / captain and manager cannot string a couple of wins together at home and regularly throw points away from good winning positions at ER. There’s clearly something wrong with our homebmentality and as a fan through thick and thin, I am entitled to voice rational concerns on that. I’ve tried to post very valid reasons as to why we are so soft and as you can clearly see, many good fans are in agreement without going over the top.

By all means repost your opinions but try and give a constructive counter argument if you think we are not a soft team as I’m suggesting.

[Brightside]

Bamba and McGregor much better than Hanlon. Porto is better now too.

Pish.

[JimBHibees]

Who was captain last time we got relegated?

What's that to do with a Yogi, the point I was referring was that our last proper captain was him which is clearly nonsense.

[The 90+2]

Liam Craig, who got a lot of criticism from here for constantly moaning at the ref.

Fair point. I genuinely try to blank that period out 🤣

[The 90+2]

What's that to do with a Yogi, the point I was referring was that our last proper captain was him which is clearly nonsense.

I was just asking. Chill the beans.

[The 90+2]

Pish.

Aye so it is! Hanlon is/was a better player than Bamba? Seriously?

[Alfred E Newman]

We were well on top in the first half, some of the passing was good and I thought the centre half’s used the ball well.

I’m struggling to think of others tbh but my post was more of a comment on the total meltdowns we get on here after a defeat. A lot of the time after loosing big games in particular we get threads appearing called “perspective required” or something, I guess this could be considered something similar to that.

It’s just unnecessary, a lot of the criticism isn’t even constructive, it’s just “get rid, not good enough, didn’t try” etc etc. and it’s tiresome to read through pages of it.

For example, my main criticism of last night was that Ross dropped Gogic for Doidge, leaving them a spare man in the middle of the park. He should have kept the same team from the Rangers game that worked so well and would have deserved a point. That’s criticism but there’s meat on the bone. I’m not pretending I’m Alex Ferguson, I’m saying what others have said and what I saw on the TV and that’s the main reason we lost imo.

I’ve no managerial qualifications either but that’s my view as well. Doidge should have been on the bench with the same set up and team as Ibrox where we looked really good. Gogic in midfield would have cancelled out Ross County’s extra man in midfield and Boyle and Wright would have had more space on the flanks. We would have had 2 strikers available to change the game if required as well. I’ll bet Yogi couldn’t believe his luck when he saw the line up.

[Anthony Soprano]

Hanlon is the best CH we have had for at least 10 years. He’s also had a great season overall.

:faf: He's not even the best centre half at the club right now

Bamba was a far better centre half during his time here, which is why he has had a much more successful career, McGregor was better when he was fit, Porto is better now, I'd of kept Adam Jackson over him as well tbh.

[The 90+2]

:faf: He's not even the best centre half at the club right now

Boys at wind up.

[EI255]

O

[h1bs4life]

Liam Craig, who got a lot of criticism from here for constantly moaning at the ref.

And who played a major part in the relegation team according to wikipedia Hanlon 28 league games , Stevenson 37 league games .
Who played in two of the worst defeats in our history Scottish Cup final 2012 and Malmö defeats same 2.

Yet we seem to think Hanlon should be our captain , he is used to loosing big games with another one to add to his list won't make any difference .

[Northernhibee]

And who played a major part in the relegation team according to wikipedia Hanlon 28 league games , Stevenson 37 league games .
Who played in two of the worst defeats in our history Scottish Cup final 2012 and Malmö defeats same 2.

Yet we seem to think Hanlon should be our captain , he is used to loosing big games with another one to add to his list won't make any difference .

Hanlon was out injured for quite a notable part of our worst run of form in our relegation season.

Both also played part in our best ever Scottish cup run, promotion campaign, our "record points total" when we resurfaced into the Scottish Premiership too. Lewis Stevenson was also MOTM in the 2007 League Cup final and is the only player in our history to have won both the League Cup and Scottish Cup in a Hibs shirt.

[calumhibee1]

We were well on top in the first half, some of the passing was good and I thought the centre half’s used the ball well.

I’m struggling to think of others tbh but my post was more of a comment on the total meltdowns we get on here after a defeat. A lot of the time after loosing big games in particular we get threads appearing called “perspective required” or something, I guess this could be considered something similar to that.

It’s just unnecessary, a lot of the criticism isn’t even constructive, it’s just “get rid, not good enough, didn’t try” etc etc. and it’s tiresome to read through pages of it.

For example, my main criticism of last night was that Ross dropped Gogic for Doidge, leaving them a spare man in the middle of the park. He should have kept the same team from the Rangers game that worked so well and would have deserved a point. That’s criticism but there’s meat on the bone. I’m not pretending I’m Alex Ferguson, I’m saying what others have said and what I saw on the TV and that’s the main reason we lost imo.

Fair enough.

I can’t say I agree with that - I thought we were pretty much rank for the full 90 but we all see things differently.

[Brightside]

And who played a major part in the relegation team according to wikipedia Hanlon 28 league games , Stevenson 37 league games .
Who played in two of the worst defeats in our history Scottish Cup final 2012 and Malmö defeats same 2.

Yet we seem to think Hanlon should be our captain , he is used to loosing big games with another one to add to his list won't make any difference .

Paul was poor last night. But go and read the This is how it feels threads of the past season. Constructive reporting on all the players. He has been one of our best players this season and very much at the top of his game (hence scotland cap)

All players can make mistakes. £40m defenders in England do it week in week out. Paul Hanlon is a as good as we are going to get right now, and he is one of the main reasons why we are in the Top 4.

I'm really not that fussed about who is captain. Its massively overplayed by supporters. Any decent player will tell you the same. Everyone on the pitch should be a captain. The idea that Gray and McGregor were better captains is purely subjective. Paul is clearly captain right now due to him being our most experienced player. He doesnt run around screaming, beating his chest and making YLT signs but that doesnt make him a poor captain. Why would Managers keep putting him in that role?

Sergio Ramos isnt signing next week so this isnt something thats going to change any time soon.

[h1bs4life]

Hanlon was out injured for quite a notable part of our worst run of form in our relegation season.

Both also played part in our best ever Scottish cup run, promotion campaign, our "record points total" when we resurfaced into the Scottish Premiership too. Lewis Stevenson was also MOTM in the 2007 League Cup final and is the only player in our history to have won both the League Cup and Scottish Cup in a Hibs shirt.

Is that it Stevenson was man of the match 13 years ago, Hanlon played 27 league games in relegation season. Both were part of the cup winning team so that's why they should be playing this season.

[Northernhibee]

Is that it Stevenson was man of the match 13 years ago, Hanlon played 27 league games in relegation season. Both were part of the cup winning team so that's why they should be playing this season.

I think by looking for the worst in the two of those without refusing to accept what they also bring to the club shows why this, and other threads, have been necessary and proving the point of the OP. Certain posters who revel and wallow in their negativity and ignorance are bringing this board down by bringing absolutely nothing to it.

There have been plenty of good posters leave recently and there needs to be decisions made whether or not posts like the above are what's wanted on here or more in the way of proper discussion.

[Ronniekirk]

I really like Paul Hanlon so I don’t like to criticise him but I agree with much of what you’re saying. Really wasn’t any leaders on the park last night. I think that may be why he brought on Stephen Mcginn as he was maybe a bit more likely to try and grab the game by the scruff of the neck. Never happened though.

I know we’re 4th but I personally don’t think we’re a good team. That’s not knee jerk based on last night either, I’ve thought that for a while.

Mcgennis was captain at St Mirren so maybe once fully fit and up to speed he sees him as a candidate



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Coach Jon]

Pish.

Your mask is slipping Underscore, might have to change your username again.

[h1bs4life]

I think by looking for the worst in the two of those without refusing to accept what they also bring to the club shows why this, and other threads, have been necessary and proving the point of the OP. Certain posters who revel and wallow in their negativity and ignorance are bringing this board down by bringing absolutely nothing to it.

There have been plenty of good posters leave recently and there needs to be decisions made whether or not posts like the above are what's wanted on here or more in the way of proper discussion.


Is that your answer , if people don't agree with you they should be barred from the site.
Are you one of the snowflakes I have heard people talking about only your opnion counts.
Quite happy to discuss anything to do with Hibs if people disagree fine by me I am not going to loose any sleep about it , it's the internet not the real world.
If we were back to normal my opinions wouldn't change either at the game or in the pub

[Northernhibee]

Is that your answer , if people don't agree with you they should be barred from the site.
Are you one of the snowflakes I have heard people talking about only your opnion counts.
Quite happy to discuss anything to do with Hibs if people disagree fine by me I am not going to loose any sleep about it , it's the internet not the real world.
If we were back to normal my opinions wouldn't change either at the game or in the pub
:faf: Aww man, it's a full house of .net cliches, congrats.

There's opinions, there's discussion, there's criticism, then there is looking for only negatives and ignoring any informed debate or facts which is what you seem to do an awful lot of. Have you heard of Twitter? You'd be well suited there.

Also always quite happy to discuss Hibs. When you're ready to come back to the table and start doing that yourself then let us know.

[h1bs4life]

:faf: Aww man, it's a full house of .net cliches, congrats.

There's opinions, there's discussion, there's criticism, then there is looking for only negatives and ignoring any informed debate or facts which is what you seem to do an awful lot of. Have you heard of Twitter? You'd be well suited there.

Also always quite happy to discuss Hibs. When you're ready to come back to the table and start doing that yourself then let us know.


Do you do stand up , your very funny.
What's all my negative posts , not being happy about being turned over by Hertz yet again.
I have made points why I think it's time to move Hanlon and Stevenson on ,
your ' discussion ' was I but Stevenson was man of the match in 2007 and both played in the Scottish Cup Final '
Quite happy to discuss but no doubt you will come back with one of your really funny quips

[Since90+2]

Hanlon is a good player but a poor captain.

[SMAXXA]

Hanlon is a good player but a poor captain.

Have no issue with him as captain. Problem is he’s cost us 2 important goals last 2 games through mistakes and lack of awareness Captain or not. I’m a fan and believe he’s been excellent this season but like every players he’s not immune to criticism which I’m sure he would hold his hands up himself to say he should have done better.

[Roxyhibee]

I think by looking for the worst in the two of those without refusing to accept what they also bring to the club shows why this, and other threads, have been necessary and proving the point of the OP. Certain posters who revel and wallow in their negativity and ignorance are bringing this board down by bringing absolutely nothing to it.

There have been plenty of good posters leave recently and there needs to be decisions made whether or not posts like the above are what's wanted on here or more in the way of proper discussion.

You have to be very careful before you start labelling the previous poster and others as negative and ignorant just because they are flagging up pretty clear evidence of a dreadful home form malaise and fear which our current players are clearly going through. Posters are giving reasons why they think that may be happening and if you look a bit closer, you may find some relevance. It’s not just about last nights horrific display where we were bullied all over the park, it’s been happening regularly for 2 seasons now. And any discussion on bottle, softness, lack of leadership etc will inevitably bring in players names. You gave historic and current statistics why you think certain players are worthy of their place which is fair enough and the poster countered that with statistics just as relevant imo. That doesn’t make him negative and you positive. Perhaps his positivity is based on the need for change and a winning mentality.

We all want the same I’m sure but you can’t close people down when something is clearly not right within the team and they want to express it.

[calumhibee1]

I think by looking for the worst in the two of those without refusing to accept what they also bring to the club shows why this, and other threads, have been necessary and proving the point of the OP. Certain posters who revel and wallow in their negativity and ignorance are bringing this board down by bringing absolutely nothing to it.

There have been plenty of good posters leave recently and there needs to be decisions made whether or not posts like the above are what's wanted on here or more in the way of proper discussion.

This isn’t the first time you’ve called for negative opinions to be removed/censored. It’s not how a forum works. If people stop posting because they don’t enjoy the board anymore then so be it. The forum shouldn’t be censored to keep them here.

Negative opinions are just as valid as positive ones regardless of whether you reckon they’re bringing the board down.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Hanlon is a good player but a poor captain.

For me he's past his best as a player and not captain material. I like the guy a lot but he's almost finished. Of course our ever present dilemma is can we get someone better?

[Hibs90]

One of Hanlons weaknesses is his strength and in all his career I’m surprised this hasn’t been worked on. I wonder how many goals Hanlon being out muscled has cost us

[jacomo]

Maybe you’d like to read my constructive comments again to prevent having a very obvious knee jerk reaction of your own.

Please tell me where the hyperbole is in analysing why our team / captain and manager cannot string a couple of wins together at home and regularly throw points away from good winning positions at ER. There’s clearly something wrong with our homebmentality and as a fan through thick and thin, I am entitled to voice rational concerns on that. I’ve tried to post very valid reasons as to why we are so soft and as you can clearly see, many good fans are in agreement without going over the top.

By all means repost your opinions but try and give a constructive counter argument if you think we are not a soft team as I’m suggesting.


I’ve not been watching Hibs as long as you but to suggest this is one of the softest teams in 60 years seems well over the top, judging by results at least.

[Brightside]

Your mask is slipping Underscore, might have to change your username again.

Mask? Thought it was time for a change when posters started getting personal.

[easty]

For me he's past his best as a player and not captain material. I like the guy a lot but he's almost finished. Of course our ever present dilemma is can we get someone better?

He’s not close to being finished, he’s 30 year old and played international football 3 months ago. He’s also been one of our best players this season.

Folk, not you specifically, love to point out his faults - cos aye he’s not Van Dijk or Cannovaro, he’s going to make mistakes - and ignore the many many good things and games he’s given us.

[Northernhibee]

Do you do stand up , your very funny.
What's all my negative posts , not being happy about being turned over by Hertz yet again.
I have made points why I think it's time to move Hanlon and Stevenson on ,
your ' discussion ' was I but Stevenson was man of the match in 2007 and both played in the Scottish Cup Final '
Quite happy to discuss but no doubt you will come back with one of your really funny quips

Tell you what, let's put it this way. I went to the cup finals in 2007 and 2016 as they're big games where big players rise to the surface. Those were based on fact. You put your opinion on Hanlon on a part of our relegation season where he wasn't even playing because he was injured. You went to using historical data (which was wrong) to try and prove a point, I went to historical data (which was correct) to prove otherwise. If you also want further information as to why you're wrong, Hanlon earned his first international cap this season. He's still seen as a high level defender by many people in the game. Your opinion is worth nothing compared to facts, and those are all indeed facts.

There are some posters on here who I fundementally disagree with a lot of the time but welcome their input. The 90+2 for example is someone who I value in terms of their input as although they (and I think they may agree, this isn't an attempt to put down the poster in any way, quite the opposite in fact) don't hold as positive an outlook on Hibs as often as I do, but they know their football, have a good knowledge of Hibs and put an argument forward often in a way that makes me consider my own opinion on the club. That's really healthy and although I've disagreed with the poster before and likely will again in the future, it leads to good debate.

However, posting the following, regarding a player whom we've already established has had many recent honours and plaudits from those in the game, really isn't more than woe is me negative nonsense in comparison, is it?

Yet we seem to think Hanlon should be our captain , he is used to loosing (sic) big games with another one to add to his list won't make any difference .

[Northernhibee]

This isn’t the first time you’ve called for negative opinions to be removed/censored. It’s not how a forum works. If people stop posting because they don’t enjoy the board anymore then so be it. The forum shouldn’t be censored to keep them here.

Negative opinions are just as valid as positive ones regardless of whether you reckon they’re bringing the board down.

Negative opinions are worth nothing compared to neutral facts, and similarly an uninformed opinion isn't worth as much as a balanced opinion.

Criticism is absolutely vital to a message board, last night was a really poor performance and merits it. "This is the softest team in sixty years" is nothing like healthy criticism.

[DanishJohn]

Negative opinions are worth nothing compared to neutral facts, and similarly an uninformed opinion isn't worth as much as a balanced opinion.

Criticism is absolutely vital to a message board, last night was a really poor performance and merits it. "This is the softest team in sixty years" is nothing like healthy criticism.


Would you value Alex Cropley's opinion ?

[Bangkok Hibby]

He’s not close to being finished, he’s 30 year old and played international football 3 months ago. He’s also been one of our best players this season.

Folk, not you specifically, love to point out his faults - cos aye he’s not Van Dijk or Cannovaro, he’s going to make mistakes - and ignore the many many good things and games he’s given us.

Yes I'm sorry I could have worded that better. For me I believe this season will be his last as a regular Hibs starter.

[Northernhibee]

Would you value Alex Cropley's opinion ?

I listen to almost every opinion - I'm guessing this is where you're saying that one of his contrasts mine. I look forward to reading it if that's the case.

[easty]

Would you value Alex Cropley's opinion ?

I’m not sure what opinion he has, but just because he was a great player, doesn’t mean he’s always right.

Plenty pundits on the telly who were great players talk utter tatties.

[easty]

Yes I'm sorry I could have worded that better. For me I believe this season will be his last as a regular Hibs starter.

Fair enough, I completely disagree with that. I think he’ll be playing week in week out for at least 2 further seasons.

[DanishJohn]

I listen to almost every opinion - I'm guessing this is where you're saying that one of his contrasts mine. I look forward to reading it if that's the case.


Alex Cropley said Pat Stanton was a great player but a poor captain.

That was his opinion.

Was Alex right or wrong?

[easty]

Alex Cropley said Pat Stanton was a great player but a poor captain.

That was his opinion.

Was Alex right or wrong?

Did he justify it at all?

[PH91]

For me he's past his best as a player and not captain material. I like the guy a lot but he's almost finished. Of course our ever present dilemma is can we get someone better?

Almost finished? Even including his 2 recent mistakes I think he is our player of the season so far!! He has put in numerous motm performances.

Not necessarily aimed at you but i think some fans just can't seem to forgive that he was part of the team that lost the final to Hearts and were relegated. Their opinion won't change regardless of how many good performances he puts in, as soon as he makes one mistake it is jumped on with calls for him to be replaced.

I do think we need someone with more presence in the middle of the park and have done for a while but that doesn't mean getting rid of hanlon or replacing him as captain. He has plenty games where he leads by example without bawling his head off. I imagine he is exemplary off the field too.

As for the post questioning how many goals hanlon directly costs us a season due to mistakes i would say probably 3 or 4 a season. But tell me a centre half at any level who doesn't make mistakes that lead to a goal a few times a season. There won't be many, if any.

As with any player, if we can get better then great but how any one can watch us week in week out and think he is the priority for replacement is beyond me. I'm going to back him to put his recent mistakes behind him and go on to put in some more solid performances.

[basehibby]

Many's the time I've come on here to argue the toss with posters exhibiting a knee jerk reaction after a bad result. After the abysmal showing against Ross County though there is little to debate.

Sure we were decent for the first 20 minutes and no I would not think of calling for Ross' head with his team in 4th and in a cup semi BUT that result was utterly abysmal and was not at all unfair but reflected the overall performance. 3 points thrown away at home against a team we should be beating EVERY day of the week - it's just sickening. Lessons learned? I hope so ! Over to you Ross - looking for a major reaction against Livi.

[WhileTheChief..]

"This is the softest team in sixty years" is nothing like healthy criticism.

But it’s just one person making a throw away remark!

You said yourself that uninformed option is worthless, so why pay it any attention?

If we all started threads about posts we didn’t like, the board wouldn’t be able to function. Just show a bit of tolerance and rise above it?

[JohnM1875]

Almost finished? Even including his 2 recent mistakes I think he is our player of the season so far!! He has put in numerous motm performances.

Not necessarily aimed at you but i think some fans just can't seem to forgive that he was part of the team that lost the final to Hearts and were relegated. Their opinion won't change regardless of how many good performances he puts in, as soon as he makes one mistake it is jumped on with calls for him to be replaced.

I do think we need someone with more presence in the middle of the park and have done for a while but that doesn't mean getting rid of hanlon or replacing him as captain. He has plenty games where he leads by example without bawling his head off. I imagine he is exemplary off the field too.

As for the post questioning how many goals hanlon directly costs us a season due to mistakes i would say probably 3 or 4 a season. But tell me a centre half at any level who doesn't make mistakes that lead to a goal a few times a season. There won't be many, if any.

As with any player, if we can get better then great but how any one can watch us week in week out and think he is the priority for replacement is beyond me. I'm going to back him to put his recent mistakes behind him and go on to put in some more solid performances.

Agree, Hanlon has had a really good season so far. Only behind P McGinn for me. Defenders are always going to get the blame for goals at times. Hanlon is no exception to that.

He's also only very recently been capped by Scotland. A Scotland team who qualified for their first major tournament in 22 years.

[DanishJohn]

Did he justify it at all?

Yeh he mentioned playing under Alan Ball at Arsenal and he reckoned Ball was everything a captain should be.

He was therefore being negative about Pat.
Is that allowed?

[Lago]

Sorry mate. I've been watching Hibs for 40 odd years and as a result I never expect us to be a certainty to win any game. But there has to come a point where you are angry about losing a game against a team bottom of the league who could barely manage a goal never mind a win until tonight. If we are going to progress we simply have to be beating Ross County at Easter Road .... When a defeat like tonight becomes acceptable, or provokes a reaction of 'oh well' followed by a shrug of the shoulders we might as well not bother having any ambition to be a better club at all.
Hit the nail on the head, well said.

[Andy74]

Many's the time I've come on here to argue the toss with posters exhibiting a knee jerk reaction after a bad result. After the abysmal showing against Ross County though there is little to debate.

Sure we were decent for the first 20 minutes and no I would not think of calling for Ross' head with his team in 4th and in a cup semi BUT that result was utterly abysmal and was not at all unfair but reflected the overall performance. 3 points thrown away at home against a team we should be beating EVERY day of the week - it's just sickening. Lessons learned? I hope so ! Over to you Ross - looking for a major reaction against Livi.
Celtic and Rangers should also be beating us every day of the week but we also expect to compete and get frequent results against them.

Don’t think anyone would argue last night was crap. That doesn’t mean everyone and everything is though which tends to be the way some people deal with the results that don’t go our way.

[Unseen work]

I agree Hanlon got turned way too easy for the goal last night. He was clearly frustrated and dived in to win it back quickly and made a hash of it.

But how is Oli Shaw standing completely unmarked in our penalty box? Porteous and McGinn standing watching.

Hanlon has been brilliant this season and one mistake won’t change my mind on that. He’s one of the last players I’d criticise this season or call to be replaced.

[easty]

Yeh he mentioned playing under Alan Ball at Arsenal and he reckoned Ball was everything a captain should be.

He was therefore being negative about Pat.
Is that allowed?

I’ll allow it. I don’t really think it’s up to me though.

[h1bs4life]

Tell you what, let's put it this way. I went to the cup finals in 2007 and 2016 as they're big games where big players rise to the surface. Those were based on fact. You put your opinion on Hanlon on a part of our relegation season where he wasn't even playing because he was injured. You went to using historical data (which was wrong) to try and prove a point, I went to historical data (which was correct) to prove otherwise. If you also want further information as to why you're wrong, Hanlon earned his first international cap this season. He's still seen as a high level defender by many people in the game. Your opinion is worth nothing compared to facts, and those are all indeed facts.

There are some posters on here who I fundementally disagree with a lot of the time but welcome their input. The 90+2 for example is someone who I value in terms of their input as although they (and I think they may agree, this isn't an attempt to put down the poster in any way, quite the opposite in fact) don't hold as positive an outlook on Hibs as often as I do, but they know their football, have a good knowledge of Hibs and put an argument forward often in a way that makes me consider my own opinion on the club. That's really healthy and although I've disagreed with the poster before and likely will again in the future, it leads to good debate.

However, posting the following, regarding a player whom we've already established has had many recent honours and plaudits from those in the game, really isn't more than woe is me negative nonsense in comparison, is it?


[/I][/COLOR]

I have been at all home games not just Cup Finals never missed Hibs at Hampden since 1972.
Hanlon and Stevenson will rightly be remembered as Scottish Cup winning legends and if I seen them in a pub I would buy them a drink as I would any of the squad.
Someone said he is the best centre half in last 10 years. Check our league positions in the last 10 years.
10 years or more for him and Stevenson not one single offer for them.
From one of the most capped players in the under 21's to gaining a cap coming on as a sub this year but the Scotland manager still prefers Andy ####### Considine.
Maybe you don't but I count derbies , games against the Old Firm and semi-finals as big games what's the record like with these.
What is also a fact is that he is used to loosing big games.
Mind run along to the admins and ask them to ban people that don't agree with you.

[hibbydog]

Past 30 years .....You think we're the only club allegedly under achieving.

Give me an example outwith the old firm of any of the so called bigger clubs over achieving in the past 30 years or even achieving.There was a post on here about culture and mentality change,how can that happen when the league itself suppresse's any chance of growth,look at Hamilton for example earned promotion to the top division and have they grown as a club or been successful,they just want to finish anywhere but bottom.
Its not just a shift in mentality at Hibs thats required its the whole league set up.

Aberdeen have finished within the top 4 for the last 7 years. They finished second and won a cup too. They are consistently punching their weight.

Your Hamilton example proves nothing - they are a small club whose fan base and budget means any target other than staying in the league is unrealistic.

Consider Hibs fan base, budget and set up and it proves we are not punching our weight. Its nothing to do with the league set up.

It is really that simple.

[Pretty Boy]

I think some people pick a side when it comes to a player or a manager and stick to it regardless.

Some people don't like Hanlon and that's fine but dismissing all the good thing he has done and focusing only on his role in a relegation season (a season in which he was a huge miss through injury) or a cup final defeat removes a lot of credibility from any argument. The same can be said of managers. Some people are now in the 'Ross is boring and can' t win big games' camp. Again fine but you can't choose to dismiss the big games he has won or the games were we have played well.

It's always going to happen. There were plenty fans down on Heckingbottom before a ball was kicked, there was a vocal few who despised Neil Lennon throughout his time here and spoke and still speak about 'half a good season' and so on and there are those who still mention Stubbs finishing behind Falkirk more than a Scottish Cup win.

I'm sure we have all drifted into a 'camp' before and try to justify it to ourselves and others. It would be boring if we all agreed, in saying that a bit of balance goes a long way. Focusing solely on one side of an argument only devalues your argument at the time or if you swing wildly to another side in future.

[#2 Double Tap]

I agree Hanlon got turned way too easy for the goal last night. He was clearly frustrated and dived in to win it back quickly and made a hash of it.

But how is Oli Shaw standing completely unmarked in our penalty box? Porteous and McGinn standing watching.

Hanlon has been brilliant this season and one mistake won’t change my mind on that. He’s one of the last players I’d criticise this season or call to be replaced.

.........for all hanlons good parts and he has a few, there are always those moments that cost us goals or result in real good chances for the opponents, to say one mistake wont change your opinion is a little misleading, cause he makes mistakes in practically every game, you just need to take the blinkers off and forget about sentimentality.

[Brightside]

.........for all hanlons good parts and he has a few, there are always those moments that cost us goals or result in real good chances for the opponents, to say one mistake wont change your opinion is a little misleading, cause he makes mistakes in practically every game, you just need to take the blinkers off and forget about sentimentality.

But every player makes multiple mistakes in every game. Even at the top level. So it’s about taking the blinkers off for the whole game.

[Smartie]

.........for all hanlons good parts and he has a few, there are always those moments that cost us goals or result in real good chances for the opponents, to say one mistake wont change your opinion is a little misleading, cause he makes mistakes in practically every game, you just need to take the blinkers off and forget about sentimentality.

How many games has he played for us in total now though?

How many centre halves can there be in world football who have played several hundred games who wouldn't have a blooper reel that could put them to shame?

It's part of the job. If you stick your neck on the block week in week out simply by playing in a position where mistakes are often punished, every now and again you're going to be made look daft.

You have to take the rough with the smooth and instead of adopting a polarised position it's probably best to acknowledge that Hanlon has much, much more in the plus column. His record isn't unblemished, nor is it plan keech, he's been an outstanding player who has served us very well with the odd dodgy moment along the way.

[Coach Jon]

How many games has he played for us in total now though?

How many centre halves can there be in world football who have played several hundred games who wouldn't have a blooper reel that could put them to shame?

It's part of the job. If you stick your neck on the block week in week out simply by playing in a position where mistakes are often punished, every now and again you're going to be made look daft.

You have to take the rough with the smooth and instead of adopting a polarised position it's probably best to acknowledge that Hanlon has much, much more in the plus column. His record isn't unblemished, nor is it plan keech, he's been an outstanding player who has served us very well with the odd dodgy moment along the way.

Hanlon is an average player who gets found out in the bigger games, a captain should be able to step up in the big games.

[hibbydog]

I think some people pick a side when it comes to a player or a manager and stick to it regardless.

Some people don't like Hanlon and that's fine but dismissing all the good thing he has done and focusing only on his role in a relegation season (a season in which he was a huge miss through injury) or a cup final defeat removes a lot of credibility from any argument. The same can be said of managers. Some people are now in the 'Ross is boring and can' t win big games' camp. Again fine but you can't choose to dismiss the big games he has won or the games were we have played well.

It's always going to happen. There were plenty fans down on Heckingbottom before a ball was kicked, there was a vocal few who despised Neil Lennon throughout his time here and spoke and still speak about 'half a good season' and so on and there are those who still mention Stubbs finishing behind Falkirk more than a Scottish Cup win.

I'm sure we have all drifted into a 'camp' before and try to justify it to ourselves and others. It would be boring if we all agreed, in saying that a bit of balance goes a long way. Focusing solely on one side of an argument only devalues your argument at the time or if you swing wildly to another side in future.

Very sensible post.

Confirmation bias. People have made up their mind far too early about certain managers or players, then selectively quote examples that suit what they’ve already decided.

FWIW, I reckon all Hibs players and managers are going to have flaws that are exposed from time to time. If they don’t, they’re not going to be at Hibs very long.

[Jones28]

Very sensible post.

Confirmation bias. People have made up their mind far too early about certain managers or players, then selectively quote examples that suit what they’ve already decided.

FWIW, I reckon all Hibs players and managers are going to have flaws that are exposed from time to time. If they don’t, they’re not going to be at Hibs very long.

It happens in all walks of life. We see it politics, a government is pressurised in to changing its mind, it does so and then gets nothing but accusations of U-turns thrown at it by the press.

When that happens on such a macro scale it’s no wonder people are afraid to admit they have changed their mind, or worse yet they no longer actually look at a situation with balance regardless of outcome or performance of a player.

It happens with players who posters just don’t like or think are good enough, if they have a great game they go quiet. It’s ****ing bliss on here after a win as a result.

[worcesterhibby]

I completely agree with the OP, but if you don’t like the negativity on here after a poor performance, the best thing to do is avoid coming on for a couple of days :greengrin:greengrin

[MWHIBBIES]

OP is at it 😂

Jack Ross is steadily creating one of the softest Hibs teams I have witnessed - and I’ve been subjected to many in 60 years. We have a Captain who can play some nice stuff now and then, but folds under any bit of pressure. Just like the players round him. We never see him in the refs ear protecting his players from poor decisions and constant fouling - and we rarely see him vocalising his fellow players to up their game. We have a very experienced left back who is the exact same in nature.

If we accept that, then we accept losing points in the last minute of games when we need to just see things out and we accept being bullied regularly by our rivals and other teams from the bottom half of the league who are willing to work hard and get in our faces. Crashing at home every other week is definitely not a healthy indicator.

We have some good footballers and can play nice stuff when given a bit space by the opposition but anyone who thinks we are making progress just because we are sitting 4th in a strange season like this is fooling themselves. This team severely lacks spine and doesn’t have one leader on the park and saying “chill out and give them a break” is perpetuating mediocrity or trolling.

Wouldn't make the top 10 and I've been going for a 3rd as long as you.

Williamson, Hughes, Fenlon, Calderwood, Mixu and Collins (after the good players left) would've had about 10 seasons between them. Theres 10 much softer, poorer sides.

No one is accepting being bulled by smaller teams. Our record against teams below us is excellent this season. Only 1 defeat, last night.

[h1bs4life]

I think some people pick a side when it comes to a player or a manager and stick to it regardless.

Some people don't like Hanlon and that's fine but dismissing all the good thing he has done and focusing only on his role in a relegation season (a season in which he was a huge miss through injury) or a cup final defeat removes a lot of credibility from any argument. The same can be said of managers. Some people are now in the 'Ross is boring and can' t win big games' camp. Again fine but you can't choose to dismiss the big games he has won or the games were we have played well.

It's always going to happen. There were plenty fans down on Heckingbottom before a ball was kicked, there was a vocal few who despised Neil Lennon throughout his time here and spoke and still speak about 'half a good season' and so on and there are those who still mention Stubbs finishing behind Falkirk more than a Scottish Cup win.

I'm sure we have all drifted into a 'camp' before and try to justify it to ourselves and others. It would be boring if we all agreed, in saying that a bit of balance goes a long way. Focusing solely on one side of an argument only devalues your argument at the time or if you swing wildly to another side in future.


So you should only point out good points about Hanlon otherwise you lose the arguement. Not sure how that works out.
Have you looked at our league position in the last 10 years.
I mentioned he had been involved in 2 of the worst results in our history .
He was also part of the squad that won the Scottish Cup and played a big part on getting us a replay against Hearts which I will forever be grateful to him for.
Not sure what his record is in big games but would bet he has lost a lot more than he won.
While you might go on about taking one side of the other , Hanlon got a 5 year deal on the back of the golden generation as he was the next big thing.
In all the time he has been here there has been no sign of him going on to bigger and better things which I would suggest that not many people outside Hibs rate him. In the last 10 years Scotland have had a few managers and it's only recently that he came on as a sub which would say not a lot of Scotland managers rate him either. In fact after his cap in the next squad Considine was in and there was even talk about Grant Hanley coming back.
That's the reasons I think he should be moved on , definitely shouldn't be captain.
Interested in a reply, it's a discussion / my opinion .

[Pretty Boy]

So you should only point out good points about Hanlon otherwise you lose the arguement. Not sure how that works out.
Have you looked at our league position in the last 10 years.
I mentioned he had been involved in 2 of the worst results in our history .
He was also part of the squad that won the Scottish Cup and played a big part on getting us a replay against Hearts which I will forever be grateful to him for.
Not sure what his record is in big games but would bet he has lost a lot more than he won.
While you might go on about taking one side of the other , Hanlon got a 5 year deal on the back of the golden generation as he was the next big thing.
In all the time he has been here there has been no sign of him going on to bigger and better things which I would suggest that not many people outside Hibs rate him. In the last 10 years Scotland have had a few managers and it's only recently that he came on as a sub which would say not a lot of Scotland managers rate him either. In fact after his cap in the next squad Considine was in and there was even talk about Grant Hanley coming back.
That's the reasons I think he should be moved on , definitely shouldn't be captain.
Interested in a reply, it's a discussion / my opinion .

I can't see how my post could be taken as you should only point out the good things about Hanlon. It's anything but. It's a general point that people, myself included, often become blinkered in our views and point out that which supports our argument and omit that which doesn't.

I saw Paul Hanlon described as the 'best footballing CB in Scotland over the last 10 years'. I would politely disagree with that point just as much as I would with people who say he is a 'terrible footballer' (another descriptor I've seen used recently). Hanlon has had good and bad games for us and I'd have him as a good CB at our level, no more and no less.

[worcesterhibby]

So you should only point out good points about Hanlon otherwise you lose the arguement. Not sure how that works out.
Have you looked at our league position in the last 10 years.
I mentioned he had been involved in 2 of the worst results in our history .
He was also part of the squad that won the Scottish Cup and played a big part on getting us a replay against Hearts which I will forever be grateful to him for.
Not sure what his record is in big games but would bet he has lost a lot more than he won.
While you might go on about taking one side of the other , Hanlon got a 5 year deal on the back of the golden generation as he was the next big thing.
In all the time he has been here there has been no sign of him going on to bigger and better things which I would suggest that not many people outside Hibs rate him. In the last 10 years Scotland have had a few managers and it's only recently that he came on as a sub which would say not a lot of Scotland managers rate him either. In fact after his cap in the next squad Considine was in and there was even talk about Grant Hanley coming back.
That's the reasons I think he should be moved on , definitely shouldn't be captain.
Interested in a reply, it's a discussion / my opinion .

The defence has only conceded 20 goals all season. Which is in the 4th best records in the league. Our attack has scored 30 goals which is the 3rd best in the league. We are 4 th in the league. We lost a game we should have won..get over it. It happens to every team, in every country. That’s football.

[Peevemor]

The defence has only conceded 20 goals all season. Which is in the 4th best records in the league. Our attack has scored 30 goals which is the 3rd best in the league. We are 4 th in the league. We lost a game we should have won..get over it. It happens to every team, in every country. That’s football.Well said. Just imagine if we had a manager who knew his stuff....

[Hibees1973]

I will give Ross credit. He has done a decent job given he has only been here just over a year.

Needs a good January transfer window to get in a central defender and another forward. Will also help if Allan and Murphy get fit to boost our midfield. Our bench last night was dire.

However, if he loses the upcoming semi final against another lesser opponent the knives will be out for him.

To miss two great opportunities to win silverware, which let’s be honest, Hibs don’t often do, will turn some of the support against him. The cup draws have been favourable for Ross. He needs to take this opportunity.

Much as it is the players responsibility, it is the manager who will lose his job.

Next two months will make or break his tenure.

[JohnM1875]

I will give Ross credit. He has done a decent job given he has only been here just over a year.

Needs a good January transfer window to get in a central defender and another forward. Will also help if Allan and Murphy get fit to boost our midfield. Our bench last night was dire.

However, if he loses the upcoming semi final against another lesser opponent the knives will be out for him.

To miss two great opportunities to win silverware, which let’s be honest, Hibs don’t often do, will turn some of the support against him. The cup draws have been favourable for Ross. He needs to take this opportunity.

Much as it is the players responsibility, it is the manager who will lose his job.

Next two months will make or break his tenure.

I'm 32 and if Jack Ross wins the league cup and finishes 4th in the top flight that will be the most successful season I've seen at Hibs. That's the big 'if' though, cause the league cup is far from a given

Obviously the Scottish cup win means more than both. No one is doubting or taking away from that. I'm just talking about a cup win and final league position.

[h1bs4life]

The defence has only conceded 20 goals all season. Which is in the 4th best records in the league. Our attack has scored 30 goals which is the 3rd best in the league. We are 4 th in the league. We lost a game we should have won..get over it. It happens to every team, in every country. That’s football.

It's a discussion on a message board , if you don't like it ignore it .
No doubt you would be one of the get over it crew after the semi final defeat.
I would hope Ron Gordon is taking notice of some of the results and performances and not just getting over it .

[h1bs4life]

Well said. Just imagine if we had a manager who knew his stuff....

Oh look the clubs great defender has appeared.
Someone from the club must have called him on the hotline asking where have you been all day you are normally on Hibs net 24 X 7 there is people on the net that are not following your strict guidelines.

Missed you mate , you feeling ok ? You have not been ill or your internet connection been down.

[Peevemor]

Oh look the clubs great defender has appeared.
Someone from the club must have called him on the hotline asking where have you been all day you are normally on Hibs net 24 X 7 there is people on the net that are not following your strict guidelines.

Missed you mate , you feeling ok ? You have not been ill or your internet connection been down.No, I've just been avoiding this place after last night's result, mainly due to uncalled for, juvenile pish such as your post.

[Jones28]

Oh look the clubs great defender has appeared.
Someone from the club must have called him on the hotline asking where have you been all day you are normally on Hibs net 24 X 7 there is people on the net that are not following your strict guidelines.

Missed you mate , you feeling ok ? You have not been ill or your internet connection been down.

That is absolute throbber material that.

[LeithMike]

So you should only point out good points about Hanlon otherwise you lose the arguement. Not sure how that works out.
Have you looked at our league position in the last 10 years.
I mentioned he had been involved in 2 of the worst results in our history .
He was also part of the squad that won the Scottish Cup and played a big part on getting us a replay against Hearts which I will forever be grateful to him for.
Not sure what his record is in big games but would bet he has lost a lot more than he won.
While you might go on about taking one side of the other , Hanlon got a 5 year deal on the back of the golden generation as he was the next big thing.
In all the time he has been here there has been no sign of him going on to bigger and better things which I would suggest that not many people outside Hibs rate him. In the last 10 years Scotland have had a few managers and it's only recently that he came on as a sub which would say not a lot of Scotland managers rate him either. In fact after his cap in the next squad Considine was in and there was even talk about Grant Hanley coming back.
That's the reasons I think he should be moved on , definitely shouldn't be captain.
Interested in a reply, it's a discussion / my opinion .Think you're missing the point of PB's post. It was about polarisation.

On Hanlon, there is room for debate as his form has gone up and down during his time with Hibs. Personally, I think his poor spells have largely arisen from a lack of a decent midfield. Last season when we had Vela, Mallan and Allan (or a similar mix) there was no protection at all of the defence who were often overrun.

At the start of this season our back 4 were doing really well and benefitting from the protection provided by Gogic. I dont think its a coincidence that we lose more goals when he's been left out the team. We're certainly not good enough to pixk and choose when to pkay him.

I think we can all admit that Hanlon is not the tallest or strongest but he's a good defender who performs very well with proper midfield protection. Personally, I like him best on the left of a back 3 as he's excellent getting up and down the wing too and that allows us to play a holding midfielder to protect him.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[The 90+2]

Oh look the clubs great defender has appeared.
Someone from the club must have called him on the hotline asking where have you been all day you are normally on Hibs net 24 X 7 there is people on the net that are not following your strict guidelines.

Missed you mate , you feeling ok ? You have not been ill or your internet connection been down.

You’re going too far and it’s making any point you have invalid.

[Jones28]

You’re going too far and it’s making any point you have invalid.

His points were pretty pish to begin with tbf

[Wee Mickey]

.........for all hanlons good parts and he has a few, there are always those moments that cost us goals or result in real good chances for the opponents, to say one mistake wont change your opinion is a little misleading, cause he makes mistakes in practically every game, you just need to take the blinkers off and forget about sentimentality.

hence the reason he’s never moved.

[MrSmith]

Sorry mate. I've been watching Hibs for 40 odd years and as a result I never expect us to be a certainty to win any game. But there has to come a point where you are angry about losing a game against a team bottom of the league who could barely manage a goal never mind a win until tonight. If we are going to progress we simply have to be beating Ross County at Easter Road .... When a defeat like tonight becomes acceptable, or provokes a reaction of 'oh well' followed by a shrug of the shoulders we might as well not bother having any ambition to be a better club at all.

100% mate! It’s this disappointment that is moving me away from bothering anymore.

[JimBHibees]

No, I've just been avoiding this place after last night's result, mainly due to uncalled for, juvenile pish such as your post.

:greengrin

[h1bs4life]

His points were pretty pish to begin with tbf

What points were pish , are you pally with Hanlon ?
In 10 years at Hibs how many teams have come in for him?
How many Scotland caps does he have ?
How many teams has been part of that have lost big games ?
How many other teams would make a player with a history of being part of teams that lose big games captain.
Every team we have played this season has a captain who is always at the referee and other players follow suit.
Vigurs should have been sent off the other day where was our captain , players surrounding the referee demanding he be sent off .
Hughes shouldn't have had the opportunity to sub him.

[Bangkok Hibby]

What points were pish , are you pally with Hanlon ?
In 10 years at Hibs how many teams have come in for him?
How many Scotland caps does he have ?
How many teams has been part of that have lost big games ?
How many other teams would make a player with a history of being part of teams that lose big games captain.
Every team we have played this season has a captain who is always at the referee and other players follow suit.
Vigurs should have been sent off the other day where was our captain , players surrounding the referee demanding he be sent off .
Hughes shouldn't have had the opportunity to sub him.

I have to agree he's not captain material. Do we have anyone who is?

[Keith_M]

I have to agree he's not captain material. Do we have anyone who is?


Not at the moment, no.

We should have players screaming at each other when stupid mistakes are made, or when we're going through periods of play with no drive and just passing the ball sideways and slowly (as we did too often against County).

I don't get why they're so laid back

[Jones28]

What points were pish , are you pally with Hanlon ?
In 10 years at Hibs how many teams have come in for him?
How many Scotland caps does he have ?
How many teams has been part of that have lost big games ?
How many other teams would make a player with a history of being part of teams that lose big games captain.
Every team we have played this season has a captain who is always at the referee and other players follow suit.
Vigurs should have been sent off the other day where was our captain , players surrounding the referee demanding he be sent off .
Hughes shouldn't have had the opportunity to sub him.

Your pathetic childish comments mean people aren’t bothering to read your posts, they’re skipping over them.

How do you that teams haven’t come in for him? How many bids did Liverpool get for Steven Gerrard?

Paul Hanlon is a Scottish cup winning Hibs legend and nothing you say will change that. His goal at Tynecastle was one of, if not the most important goal scored by a Hibs player in my lifetime. It started a chain of events that galvanised the club and gave us one of the best days of my life.

You say how many bad results has he been involved in, what about the good ones? The Scottish cup wins, or the fact he is currently captaining the third best side in the country for the last 12 months. We have one of the best defensive records in the league and it doesn’t take much digging to find out how important he has been to that run. Look through the “this is how it feels” threads and see what is being said about how important his performances have been this season.

Digging out a player because he doesn’t shout at the referee doesn’t show you’ve got much **** left to sling. If he isn’t being obnoxious I don’t ****ing care, it wasn’t not shouting at the referee that lost us the game, it was a poor performance from everyone, Doidge because he couldn’t hit a barn door with a machine gun, KN did **** all, Newall and Hallberg weren’t at the races and Jack Ross for me is the most culpable because he fannied around with a team that played brilliantly against the side top of the league by a mile and going great guns in Europe.

[h1bs4life]

Your pathetic childish comments mean people aren’t bothering to read your posts, they’re skipping over them.

How do you that teams haven’t come in for him? How many bids did Liverpool get for Steven Gerrard?

Paul Hanlon is a Scottish cup winning Hibs legend and nothing you say will change that. His goal at Tynecastle was one of, if not the most important goal scored by a Hibs player in my lifetime. It started a chain of events that galvanised the club and gave us one of the best days of my life.

You say how many bad results has he been involved in, what about the good ones? The Scottish cup wins, or the fact he is currently captaining the third best side in the country for the last 12 months. We have one of the best defensive records in the league and it doesn’t take much digging to find out how important he has been to that run. Look through the “this is how it feels” threads and see what is being said about how important his performances have been this season.

Digging out a player because he doesn’t shout at the referee doesn’t show you’ve got much **** left to sling. If he isn’t being obnoxious I don’t ****ing care, it wasn’t not shouting at the referee that lost us the game, it was a poor performance from everyone, Doidge because he couldn’t hit a barn door with a machine gun, KN did **** all, Newall and Hallberg weren’t at the races and Jack Ross for me is the most culpable because he fannied around with a team that played brilliantly against the side top of the league by a mile and going great guns in Europe.


What pathetic childish comments .
The comment asking if someone was alright was aimed at someone who follows and makes smart arse comments

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?349328-Leeann-Dempster&highlight=dempster
Still waiting on Al Bundy's neighbour being announced as Dempster's replacement .

Have already acknowledged Hanlon's great contribution to Scottish Cup although we had a real captain leading us and as a team took no crap from no one.
If there had been any bids for Hanlon no doubt we would have heard.
How many Scotland managers have picked him.
Digging out a player because he doesn't shout Have you watched any games this season? Semi final that wee naff across the road was constantly at Collum so where the rest of there team.
Against the Huns when we should have had a penalty where was the team
giving Collum it tight. Watch Brown for Celtic and even Ross County were constantly at the ref like it or not it's part of the game.
Feel free to discuss further or hide behind pathetic childish comments if you want ( have explained the reason for comments )

[marinello59]

Can we try and debate the issues without throwing insults at each other. We don’t want to be spending New Years day deleting posts etc.
Thanks all. :thumbsup:

[Brightside]

What points were pish , are you pally with Hanlon ?
In 10 years at Hibs how many teams have come in for him?
How many Scotland caps does he have ?
How many teams has been part of that have lost big games ?
How many other teams would make a player with a history of being part of teams that lose big games captain.
Every team we have played this season has a captain who is always at the referee and other players follow suit.
Vigurs should have been sent off the other day where was our captain , players surrounding the referee demanding he be sent off .
Hughes shouldn't have had the opportunity to sub him.

It’s a new year. How about we start it a bit better than this. Oh and there was 100% an offer on the table from Aberdeen. He turned it down because he loves Hibernian.

[h1bs4life]

It’s a new year. How about we start it a bit better than this. Oh and there was 100% an offer on the table from Aberdeen. He turned it down because he loves Hibernian.

You right mate it's a New Year , it's a discussion board most people can start new posts and discuss things with the odd exception who would rather talk about boiled sweets .
It's all about opinions , at the end of the day it's doesn't matter what we say it's the manager that picks the team.
Paul Hanlon is a Hibs legend and whenever he pulls on a Hibs shirt whether watching live or on line as with all other players I am 100% behind them .
Have a good one , hopefully we can bag a couple of trophies this year

[Jones28]

What pathetic childish comments .
The comment asking if someone was alright was aimed at someone who follows and makes smart arse comments

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?349328-Leeann-Dempster&highlight=dempster
Still waiting on Al Bundy's neighbour being announced as Dempster's replacement .

Have already acknowledged Hanlon's great contribution to Scottish Cup although we had a real captain leading us and as a team took no crap from no one.
If there had been any bids for Hanlon no doubt we would have heard.
How many Scotland managers have picked him.
Digging out a player because he doesn't shout Have you watched any games this season? Semi final that wee naff across the road was constantly at Collum so where the rest of there team.
Against the Huns when we should have had a penalty where was the team
giving Collum it tight. Watch Brown for Celtic and even Ross County were constantly at the ref like it or not it's part of the game.
Feel free to discuss further or hide behind pathetic childish comments if you want ( have explained the reason for comments )

How about you read your response to my post again, then you might identify your childish comment.

What difference does nipping a referee who’s already blown his whistle make? I’ll tell you how much, **** all. Because the whistle has gone. He’s made the decision and all it comes across as is being an annoying ****. When has being nipped at by players made a referee reverse or change his decision.

He was also picked by the current Scotland manager, which would indicate to me his performances have been good enough to earn a place, as well as in 2017.

As bright side said, Aberdeen showed in interest as recently as 2016. Here’s the link https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/aberdeen-fc/928209/aberdeen-linked-move-hibs-defender-paul-hanlon/amp/

[HNA12]

We won’t be spending New Year’s Day dealing with petty bickering. Thread closed.