Do we play better when Gogic isn't in the middle?

[California-Hibs]

Last 3 results.....1-0, 0-3, 0-4, Gogic out for all of them, Mallen in for one and Hallberg the other two. Just a coincidence and would have been the same outcomes if he was in? Or is having a bit more directness in the last 3 games paid dividends to our attacking flow?

Discuss...

(I don't actually mind Gogic btw. I do feel he's a pretty average and simple footballer, but he's fairly effective at what he brings)

[MWHIBBIES]

He has a place but there's a reason very few quality sides start with a pure destroyer anymore

[flash]

Last 3 results.....1-0, 0-3, 0-4, Gogic out for all of them, Mallen in for one and Hallberg the other two. Just a coincidence and would have been the same outcomes if he was in? Or is having a bit more directness in the last 3 games paid dividends to our attacking flow?

Discuss...

(I don't actually mind Gogic btw. I do feel he's a pretty average and simple footballer, but he's fairly effective at what he brings)
Horses for courses i reckon. We will need him in some games, in others not so much.

[hibbysam]

He serves a purpose in certain games. We need to be more fluid in games we can and should dominate though.

[California-Hibs]

Horses for courses i reckon. We will need him in some games, in others not so much.

Its where I sit with it. However Hamilton for example is usually a game where you definitely have to win the battle first and foremost but I feel we almost didn't need to necessarily focus too much on that as our attacking quality was just too much..

[California-Hibs]

I'm no great fan of Hallberg, but he at least can carry the ball and is more of a threat while also being a better passer.... even if he does only have half (being kind) the dig of Gogic.

[superfurryhibby]

Team seems more fluid without him. He’s going to have to up his game to get back in the side.

[H18 SFR]

I honestly don't think we have the perfect pairing when it comes to the middle of the park.

I was shouting for Hallberg to be given a chance with Newall, glad to see that it has paid off so far brilliantly. I can see that pairing getting the starting positions moving forward.

[Keith_M]

I'd still have Gogic in against Celtc and Rangers.

[Smartie]

The phrase "jack of all trades, master of none" gets chucked around a lot but it certainly helps to have midfielders with a balanced, all-round game.

Our midfield has toiled when being made up of the guy who can tackle, the guy who can shoot, the guy who plays the World Cup passes without someone who can do a bit of everything.

Games against Celtic and Rangers for example - I could see Gogic being pretty handy with Hallberg and Newell.

I'd like to think that any Hibs team would be able to find space for a fit and on-form Scott Allan - maybe he'd be best with Hallberg and Newell (he was good with McGeouch and McGinn, who were pretty rounded players)?

I wonder if we can make any unit out of Mallan, Allan, Gogic etc without our all-rounders?

The midfield has looked better, but it has been up against teams who are at the wrong end of the table. It would be interesting to see how they might get on in a battle with Aberdeen or Hearts (generally our most physical games).

[FilipinoHibs]

Its where I sit with it. However Hamilton for example is usually a game where you definitely have to win the battle first and foremost but I feel we almost didn't need to necessarily focus too much on that as our attacking quality was just too much..

Always felt that win the battle was a load of p**h. You win by out playing your opponent. Brazil , Barcelona, Santos and Hibs great sides won by playing the better football from the off as we did on Saturday. But nothing against a good hard thud in a 50/50 ball

[Clarence]

He was good at the start of the season then teams seemed to suss him out a bit. I think we’ll need to keep changing our starting 11 up and we’ll probably see him get back in the team once Allan is fit again at some point.

He’s the sort of player that you’d like to think you could bring on when you are 2-1 up with ten to go and he’d shore the midfield up but he’s made a lot of unforced errors when passing more latterly in his Hibs career and this nullifies his good break up play. I hope he’s working on simple passing as he’d be a great asset to the side if he can improve his technique a bit. Sometimes I wonder about his decision making though. If he just has to kick the thing in front of him he’s fine but if there are a few choices on he can be a bit hesitant and decision making is something that is very difficult to train for.

[superfurryhibby]

He was good at the start of the season then teams seemed to suss him out a bit. I think we’ll need to keep changing our starting 11 up and we’ll probably see him get back in the team once Allan is fit again at some point.

He’s the sort of player that you’d like to think you could bring on when you are 2-1 up with ten to go and he’d shore the midfield up but he’s made a lot of unforced errors when passing more latterly in his Hibs career and this nullifies his good break up play. I hope he’s working on simple passing as he’d be a great asset to the side if he can improve his technique a bit. Sometimes I wonder about his decision making though. If he just has to kick the thing in front of him he’s fine but if there are a few choices on he can be a bit hesitant and decision making is something that is very difficult to train for.

If we want to finish above Aberdeen and compete in the cups we need players who can do more "just kick the thing in front of him". As you say, there is a role for a player who can come on and protect the back four, but it would ne nice to think they can also contribute creatively. Gogic will no doubt be back in the team so here's hoping he can up his game a little.

[Brightside]

He makes us hard to beat. A vital member of our sqaud. BUT we dont need a CDM type in a fair few of our games.

[Andy74]

He’s not as limited a footballer as this discussion might suggest.

[scoopyboy]

He’s not as limited a footballer as this discussion might suggest.

Agree plus he is an excellent central defender as well.

[jacomo]

He’s not as limited a footballer as this discussion might suggest.


This thread makes me wonder if some of us watch Scottish football at all.

[Smartie]

He's another one that I'd probably need to see playing live to form a proper opinion tbh.

[Tug Wilson]

I seem to remember many saying the same about Marvin Bartley. Yet soon as he left we were all screaming out for a midfield destroyer.

There is a place for Gogic in the squad. He brings something that none of the other midfielders really possess and will be very useful in certain games.

Up to Jack Ross to decide what games he thinks that they will be. Hopefully he gets it right. Be plenty of people on here tell him if he gets it wrong.

[jacomo]

He's another one that I'd probably need to see playing live to form a proper opinion tbh.


Nah, just watch the highlights (or maybe just the goals on your phone) and then trot out some cliched banalities like other people do.

[500miles]

Bartley didn't play for us every week either. Not because he was a bad player, but because we're expected to take the game to the opposition, which means all our midfielders have to contribute going forward.

However, on slow running or narrow pitches, I'd expect him to suffocate most teams nearly single handedly.

[MWHIBBIES]

I seem to remember many saying the same about Marvin Bartley. Yet soon as he left we were all screaming out for a midfield destroyer.

There is a place for Gogic in the squad. He brings something that none of the other midfielders really possess and will be very useful in certain games.

Up to Jack Ross to decide what games he thinks that they will be. Hopefully he gets it right. Be plenty of people on here tell him if he gets it wrong.

You sure it was Marv we were screaming for and not Mcginn and Mcgeouch? We rarely missed Marv.

[green day]

We dont need a Gogic every match (any more than we needed Bartley).

Remember the Scottish Cup Final?

Marv didnt play - he was gutted, but we won the match with the right players on the park.

It really is horses for courses, and i am delighted that we are not playing a limited DM in matches against the dross (where we can really skelp them with our better players).

[jacomo]

You sure it was Marv we were screaming for and not Mcginn and Mcgeouch? We rarely missed Marv.


Yes it was when opponents were cutting Heckys team open at will and Marv was higher up the league with Livi.

Marv still proved his worth in a squad with a stellar midfield. Gogic will prove himself a very useful player I am sure.

[Since452]

Yes. We were the same when Bartley played. Far more fluent without. Players like that seem to slow the play down.

[Juniper Greens]

At the start of the season, we went on a great run and gogic was a huge part of that.
Then we hit a bit more of a sticky patch and things needed changed up. Again, we have hit form and due to the changes are playing a much better style of football.
If and when we get sussed out again, I'm sure gogic will come back in and with that, the style will deteriorate slightly.

[Smartie]

You sure it was Marv we were screaming for and not Mcginn and Mcgeouch? We rarely missed Marv.

There have been games when we’ve been screaming out for Marv. Derbies and Aberdeen games mainly, but I also think we’ve missed him in games against Livi, particularly through there. He bullied us and showed us what we were missing at least a couple of times, possibly leading to many of the comments.

[Unseen work]

It’s quite funny that we’ve won convincing two games in a row away to Motherwell and Hamilton. Two teams that whilst we’d be wanting/expecting to beat we know it would be a real physical game and our midfield would need to be up for it.

We've just went and battered both with Newell and Hallberg.

My only thing with both of them is I don’t have confidence in them doing it against Aberdeen, Hearts etc.

Im a big fan of Gogic and been really impressed with him this season. But if we play like we have this past two weeks then he’ll struggle to get back in and that’s exactly how competitive our squad should be.

[MWHIBBIES]

Yes it was when opponents were cutting Heckys team open at will and Marv was higher up the league with Livi.

Marv still proved his worth in a squad with a stellar midfield. Gogic will prove himself a very useful player I am sure.I really don't think we were struggling because Marv wasn't there. He hardly got in the team for his last 18 months here. When Heckys Hibs were beating everyone he wasn't involved either.


There have been games when we’ve been screaming out for Marv. Derbies and Aberdeen games mainly, but I also think we’ve missed him in games against Livi, particularly through there. He bullied us and showed us what we were missing at least a couple of times, possibly leading to many of the comments.

I don't remember him bullying us really. We had a stinker at new year but that was because we were brutal more than Marv doing anything IMO. We bullied him this season big time.

The missing Marv thing was just an easy take IMO. Defensive midfielder stops team conceding goals. Dur. Its great for Neil Warnock style football to just stick a big lump in the middle but its rarely that effective. The real loss were the 2 footballers we lost the year before. Everyone said our defense was utter gash last season and we needed to replace all 4. Turns out they weren't, we've replaced none of them and have the 3rd best in the league. A proper quality defensive set-up and retaining the ball are more important than a defensive midfielder.

Marv has lost every career game he's ever started against Aberdeen. The 2 times we beat them when he was here, he played a total of 5 minutes. We really didn't miss this big influence he had against them.

[et_hibby]

Nah, just watch the highlights (or maybe just the goals on your phone) and then trot out some cliched banalities like other people do.

😀

[JimBHibees]

Agree plus he is an excellent central defender as well.

Very good option to have

[blackpoolhibs]

It’s quite funny that we’ve won convincing two games in a row away to Motherwell and Hamilton. Two teams that whilst we’d be wanting/expecting to beat we know it would be a real physical game and our midfield would need to be up for it.

We've just went and battered both with Newell and Hallberg.

My only thing with both of them is I don’t have confidence in them doing it against Aberdeen, Hearts etc.

Im a big fan of Gogic and been really impressed with him this season. But if we play like we have this past two weeks then he’ll struggle to get back in and that’s exactly how competitive our squad should be.
Exactly, players get injured or suspended,and replacements come in. Too often in the past they have not taken their chances, and been replaced again when those players are available. It’s great to see some of those players actually giving the manager a problem for a change,rather than it being an easy decision as is normally the case.

[J-C]

Gogic a bit like Bartley are needed against the better opposition to do the dirty work so to speak. When we're playing against teams we expect to beat we need better technical players to take the game to them, horses for courses. The reason Gogic stood out at Hamilton was they were always up against it, so they needed him in the middle.

[Smartie]

Exactly, players get injured or suspended,and replacements come in. Too often in the past they have not taken their chances, and been replaced again when those players are available. It’s great to see some of those players actually giving the manager a problem for a change,rather than it being an easy decision as is normally the case.

I was a bit concerned when these same players came into the side during our earlier League Cup games and didn't really make a positive impact, but it is great to see so many of them slotting into the side comfortable now.

Hallberg has been excellent in recent games, Wright has fitted in fine. Gullan has really made an impact off the bench.

It's very welcome.

[Northernhibee]

I was a bit concerned when these same players came into the side during our earlier League Cup games and didn't really make a positive impact, but it is great to see so many of them slotting into the side comfortable now.

Hallberg has been excellent in recent games, Wright has fitted in fine. Gullan has really made an impact off the bench.

It's very welcome.
TBH as Hallberg hasn’t stood out in previous seasons some always seem to look out for him in a negative fashion. In the league cup campaign he’s chipped in with a goal, assists, playing at CM, DM, RB and since breaking through into the first team in the league he’s been very good too.

He’s been a really good and versatile player for us this season.

[rodhibs55]

Gogic a bit like Bartley are needed against the better opposition to do the dirty work so to speak. When we're playing against teams we expect to beat we need better technical players to take the game to them, horses for courses. The reason Gogic stood out at Hamilton was they were always up against it, so they needed him in the middle.

Agree with this. You could add Milligan to that list with the exception being that he could also play as well as dig. Another player in that mould would do for me.

[Shrekko]

Don’t think I can remember us having such depth in midfield. Unbelievable to think of the players on the bench and guys not available on Saturday considering how dominant we were.

Gogic is a good player and one I’m glad we have- he won’t ever let us down when called upon.

[ABZHFC]

Missed him in games like Aberdeen at home, less so in games like Hamilton away, that's my thinking on it anyway

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Arguably, if you take the DM position away, you end up with Hecky football. Gogic is a decent player who has made a real difference in games when we haven't always been on the front foot.

[MWHIBBIES]

Arguably, if you take the DM position away, you end up with Hecky football. Gogic is a decent player who has made a real difference in games when we haven't always been on the front foot.

Or Stubbs cup winning football.

[Stuart93]

Arguably, if you take the DM position away, you end up with Hecky football. Gogic is a decent player who has made a real difference in games when we haven't always been on the front foot.

I’d say we more or less took away the DM role the past couple games & wouldn’t say we’d played anything close to Hecky football?

[Steve20]

A surprising lack of respect for Bartley on this thread. If people don't think we missed him in certain games, then I honestly don't think they understand the game. Just my opinion of course.

[MWHIBBIES]

A surprising lack of respect for Bartley on this thread. If people don't think we missed him in certain games, then I honestly don't think they understand the game. Just my opinion of course.

We did miss him in certain games. We missed the better players who left much more, though.

Facts show Marv was a reserve by the time he left. His impact was pretty minimal in his last 18 months.

[Smartie]

A surprising lack of respect for Bartley on this thread. If people don't think we missed him in certain games, then I honestly don't think they understand the game. Just my opinion of course.

I don't disagree.

Just because you might not want to play him for 90 minutes every single week doesn't mean that there weren't occasions that were 100% made for him.

He was a great player for us and a good lad who was part of some very important and excellent team performances for our club, even if he didn't provide many defence splitting passes against weak opposition.

[superfurryhibby]

I don't disagree.

Just because you might not want to play him for 90 minutes every single week doesn't mean that there weren't occasions that were 100% made for him.

He was a great player for us and a good lad who was part of some very important and excellent team performances for our club, even if he didn't provide many defence splitting passes against weak opposition.

Agreed. Not really getting the lack of respect. I though Bartley was a useful squad member, but definitely never a regular first pick. The comment about not understanding the game, just pure attention seeking gash, lol