John Collins or Tony Mowbray

[The 90+2]

Now this question may have been asked before, but now it's been almost 15 years since both, definitely walked out on the club for differing reasons.

Who would you say was the better manager for Hibernian Football Club?

[Nicho87]

Mowbray. Was his team that won the cup. Liked Collins but he lost the dressing room and signed a lot of dross in the end.

[Brooster]

No contest.....Mowbray.

[Iggy Pope]

Liked the both of them, great time to be watching the Hibs with entertaining players. Can’t be bothered listening to either of them nowadays. Wouldn’t have taken either of them very long in their managerial careers to realise that they’d made a mistake in leaving Hibs a bit too early.
John Collins gave the club more all in all though and always seemed passionate about the club. Much loved player and a manager that won a cup.

JC for me.

[Bronson]

Mowbray, not even close.

[CloudSquall]

Mowbray can go **** himself after his huddle in the middle of the pitch at Easter Road as Celtic manager.

He became just another insufferable "Celtic minded" ******** after his move west.

Not forgetting the numerous pumpings at the hands of Hearts during his reign.

[BILLYHIBS]

I used to think Mowbray was the real deal as a Football Manager

He always had the perfect text book response

Loved the teenage kicks of the goalden generation

You never knew what you were going to get

I remember going up to Tannadice the day after the Tsunami and blowing United away 4-1

Blotted his copybook at Darkheid in my eyes :rolleyes:

No brainer

[murray26]

Is this a serious question..?

[The 90+2]

See Cloudsquails response 🤣🤣🤣

It definitely splits the support somehow.

[The 90+2]

I used to think Mowbray was the real deal as a Football Manager

He always had the perfect text book response

Loved the teenage kicks of the goalden generation

You never knew what you were going to get

I remember going up to Tannadice the day after the Tsunami and blowing United away 4-1

Blotted his copybook at Darkheid in my eyes :rolleyes:

No brainer

Mowbray turned water into wine for me. The ***** under Williamson and crowds down to amazing and maybe it hits us most that renewed our season tickets that year anyway not knowing what to expect. We even matched the hearts team funded to what? £30-40m?

[BILLYHIBS]

Mowbray turned water into wine for me. The ***** under Williamson and crowds down to amazing and maybe it hits us most that renewed our season tickets that year anyway not knowing what to expect. We even matched the hearts team funded to what? £30-40m?
As others have said I f#cking hated their wee pre-match huddle made it all the sweeter on the few occasions we would pump them :greengrin

[The 90+2]

As others have said I f#cking hated their wee pre-match huddle made it all the sweeter on the few occasions we would pump them :greengrin

Sure you’ve mentioned before the teenage kicks song too Bill and how amazing it was to go enjoy football. Mowbray was a desperate guy at Celtic as the didn’t like him or appreciate him from the start. Be the same if Stubbs went away took a team up from the champ to the Prem but because it was West Brom.

I love Mowbray. He made going to football great again.

[BILLYHIBS]

Sure you’ve mentioned before the teenage kicks song too Bill and how amazing it was to go enjoy football. Mowbray was a desperate guy at Celtic as the didn’t like him or appreciate him from the start. Be the same if Stubbs went away took a team up from the champ to the Prem but because it was West Brom.

I love Mowbray. He made going to football great again.
Apart from against the Hearts he couldn’t buy a win against them

[Pagan Hibernia]

Pumping rangers twice at ibrox in the space of 4 months... it’s Mowbray for me

[Iggy Pope]

Pumping rangers twice at ibrox in the space of 4 months... it’s Mowbray for me

:greengrin That vote of mine is looking worthless.

[Peevemor]

Mowbray without the shadow of a doubt. He left behind a squad that went on to win a trophy.

Collins left behind squad that set us back for years.

[hibsbollah]

Collins took Mowbrays team and actually won something. But Mowbrays team played the better football for a longer period so I’ll have to say Mowbray.

But I liked both of them.

[The 90+2]

Apart from against the Hearts he couldn’t buy a win against them

Au contraire Billy.

First time since 1999:

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.T8jGDJHUSRDtF93ctUMOlQHaE9?w=269&h=180&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.25&pid=1.7

[Onceinawhile]

Mowbray had the better eye for a player.
Mowbray played good football for longer.

Jc won something, but then it all fell apart.

Mowbray by a wee bit.

[The 90+2]

Au contraire Billy.

First time since 1999:

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.T8jGDJHUSRDtF93ctUMOlQHaE9?w=269&h=180&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.25&pid=1.7

Then:

https://youtu.be/BCH2_AyIZWI

[The 90+2]

Then:

https://youtu.be/BCH2_AyIZWI


Then

https://youtu.be/in6gU-YlC_A

In the middle of that we won the first time I've seen us win in Glasgow at a game (Celtic 1 Hibs 3) then Ivan and was at the game then the Scottish cup 3-0 games with all my pals.


This is Mowbray

https://youtu.be/BCH2_AyIZWI

Site doesn't embed the video but one of the best games ever.

The there was the games we beat the hun at Easter Road too.

Not only that, that hearts team that came to Easter Road when we won 2-0 was the best hearts team theres been since ive started watching football (1990) we ****ed them, easily.. because Mowbray. Imagine that lot against Calderwood or Fenlon. Or in Collins' later part?

[The Modfather]

Collins took Mowbrays team and actually won something. But Mowbrays team played the better football for a longer period so I’ll have to say Mowbray.

But I liked both of them.

Sums up my thoughts. Collins also played a big part in East Mains but on the park the highs/enjoyment was for a longer period under Mowbray.

[Iggy Pope]

There’s a fair wee bit of rosiness about Tony’s time here I’m sure, lovely as it was.

[The 90+2]

Sums up my thoughts. Collins also played a big part in East Mains but on the park the highs/enjoyment was for a longer period under Mowbray.

Collins had no part in east mains and walked out the day it was opened.

[Iggy Pope]

Collins had no part in east mains and walked out the day it was opened.

Not correct. He had plenty of input into the development and attended several site meetings, I was present at them. All a long time before it opened, when he did indeed, walk out. The day after mind you. He attended the unveiling alongside Farmer and Petrie.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/7151795.stm

[jacomo]

Not correct. He had plenty of input into the development and attended several site meetings, I was present at them. All a long time before it opened, when he did indeed, walk out. The day after mind you. He attended the unveiling alongside Farmer and Petrie.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/7151795.stm


:agree:

[The 90+2]

Not correct. He had plenty of input into the development and attended several site meetings, I was present at them. All a long time before it opened, when he did indeed, walk out. The day after mind you. He attended the unveiling alongside Farmer and Petrie.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/7151795.stm

I would usually believe that and think it's undoubtedly best for the club if he didn't leave THE NEXT DAY after your article. :agree:

BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | Hibernian | Collins resigns as Hibs manager (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/7153893.stm)





I don know you've the best of the club at heart though but who's to say what was ***** or not? I'm lead to believe he had very little to do with it and it was the Parks, plus still speaking to Mowbray that developed it.

[The 90+2]

:agree:

So, so eager to follow through his plans and his creation then?

BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | Hibernian | Collins resigns as Hibs manager (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/7153893.stm)

A day later? If he had a major say in all of the training ground and East Mains he leaves the next day?

East Mains wasn't his project and he didn't like it. That's what I have been told by players there at the time.

[The 90+2]

There’s a fair wee bit of rosiness about Tony’s time here I’m sure, lovely as it was.

He built a side from the ****ter, a side where crowds fell and loads of pals couldn't be arsed going anymore and made watching Hibernian amazing to watch again.

See Stubbs, Alan.

[wookie70]

They actually have fairly similar records with Mowbray having a slightly better points per game and goals scored. Collins had us defending better but not scoring as many and picking up more draws meaning less losses but not as many wins either. Both had losing records against Hearts and Aberdeen and Collins had a winning record against Celtic and good record against Rangers while Mowbray a terrible record against Celtc and a good but losing record against Rangers.

Winning Trophies means a lot to me so Collins edges it even though Mowbray deserves huge credit for signing or nurturing so many good players. Close call for me and in my view Collins was pretty harshly treated by Hibs. The way Mowbray did the Celtic love in may cloud my judgement too as may thinking JC was one of the best players I have seen at ER.

[Northernhibee]

He built a side from the ****ter, a side where crowds fell and loads of pals couldn't be arsed going anymore and made watching Hibernian amazing to watch again.

See Stubbs, Alan.

I picked Mowbray for this one as it was a reasonably easy choice of of those two, but both Stubbsy and Mowbray are held in the highest regard for me. Both times when going to support Hibs could seem like a chore and both gave us excellent young players, football that was easy on the eye and a team we could be proud of again.

Mowbray would be the only other manager in recent years that deserved to win the Scottish Cup as much as Alan Stubbs did. That summer of 2016 will unlikely be topped in my lifetime to be a Hibs fan. It's also part of the reason I couldn't take to Lennon, as soon as he made the "boy band" comment I lost any excitement for his appointment. They weren't a boy band, they were a good team to watch who took setback after setback in those two seasons and never let up, bringing us home a cup we were minutes away from having taken away from us - twice.

[The 90+2]

I picked Mowbray for this one as it was a reasonably easy choice of of those two, but both Stubbsy and Mowbray are held in the highest regard for me. Both times when going to support Hibs could seem like a chore and both gave us excellent young players, football that was easy on the eye and a team we could be proud of again.

Mowbray would be the only other manager in recent years that deserved to win the Scottish Cup as much as Alan Stubbs did. That summer of 2016 will unlikely be topped in my lifetime to be a Hibs fan. It's also part of the reason I couldn't take to Lennon, as soon as he made the "boy band" comment I lost any excitement for his appointment. They weren't a boy band, they were a good team to watch who took setback after setback in those two seasons and never let up, bringing us home a cup we were minutes away from having taken away from us - twice.

100% spot on.

[Golden Bear]

I'll not answer the question but they did have something in common, they both set their teams up to play attractive football which was often a joy to watch.

[Glory Lurker]

It was bairns under Williamson and Sauzee that make Mowbray better than Collins though.

[Smartie]

I liked them both.

If it's a straight choice then Mowbray. Did so much right and I just loved the football back then.

Collins did look for a bit like he was going to build on the work Mowbray put in, and he got a trophy over the line - we don't win many so should never scoff at anyone who gets us over the line in one. I remember a great win at Ibrox and some really good performances along with the inevitable crap that comes our way at times.

Special mention to Bobby Williamson. It might not have been much fun during his reign but we haven't had many managers hand the next one as tidy a set of raw materials to work with as he handed on to Mowbray. Yes, Mowbray got them playing and playing well but he inherited a pool of young, hungry, talented players who had already been blooded in the first team. A few additions and a playing style that was a bit more easy on the eye and we were off and running. The players who performed well under Mowbray all seem to speak highly of Bobby Williamson too, who I've come to appreciate much more after he left the club.

[BILLYHIBS]

I liked them both.

If it's a straight choice then Mowbray. Did so much right and I just loved the football back then.

Collins did look for a bit like he was going to build on the work Mowbray put in, and he got a trophy over the line - we don't win many so should never scoff at anyone who gets us over the line in one. I remember a great win at Ibrox and some really good performances along with the inevitable crap that comes our way at times.

Special mention to Bobby Williamson. It might not have been much fun during his reign but we haven't had many managers hand the next one as tidy a set of raw materials to work with as he handed on to Mowbray. Yes, Mowbray got them playing and playing well but he inherited a pool of young, hungry, talented players who had already been blooded in the first team. A few additions and a playing style that was a bit more easy on the eye and we were off and running. The players who performed well under Mowbray all seem to speak highly of Bobby Williamson too, who I've come to appreciate much more after he left the club.
” If you want entertainment go to the Cinema.” :greengrin

[Smartie]

” If you want entertainment go to the Cinema.” :greengrin

As it happened, we just needed to wait till the next guy came in for entertainment.

It wasn't pretty but Williamson dismantled an expensive side and blooded a lot of young players all whilst keeping us quite comfortably in the top league.

I thought he did a good job, even if his laying of building blocks wasn't particularly exciting.

[MWHIBBIES]

Apart from against the Hearts he couldn’t buy a win against them

He beat them 3 times I think. How many in last 50 years done that?

[BILLYHIBS]

He beat them 3 times I think. How many in last 50 years done that?
:agree:

I suppose 3 out of 9 ain’t bad

I was thinking more of the 4-0 doing they gave us at Ham dump

If it is all the same to you I voted for Mowbray did you not read my post ?

:greengrin

[The 90+2]

I'll not answer the question but they did have something in common, they both set their teams up to play attractive football which was often a joy to watch.

Why not answer the question? Deep down you would choose Mowbray 🤣

[BILLYHIBS]

As it happened, we just needed to wait till the next guy came in for entertainment.

It wasn't pretty but Williamson dismantled an expensive side and blooded a lot of young players all whilst keeping us quite comfortably in the top league.

I thought he did a good job, even if his laying of building blocks wasn't particularly exciting.
Interesting

I think you must be the first person I have heard defending him

I remember it not being pretty

I will take your comments on board

[The 90+2]

:agree:

I suppose 3 out of 9 ain’t bad

I was thinking more of the 4-0 doing they gave us at Ham dump

If it is all the same to you I voted for Mowbray did you not read my post ?

:greengrin

We lost to them at hampden utterly depleted and by that I mean check the team we played and just sold big Gaz and Killen was goosed. Deeks was suspended.

We played a very young Fletcher up top on his own.


We went from Garry O’Connor Derek Riordan and Killen

To none. None of them played. Scott Brown was out injured, obviously.

Benji played his first game.


Loads of people forget the above. Mowbrays side against hearts in that semi was destroyed by the yellow card Deeks got in Falkirk and Gaz got sold. Thommo was half fit too.

We utterly shat on them before that match at Easter Road. The semi final we lost to them I don’t blame Mowbray at all for. He managed to somehow turn that around and beat them a month later when Deeks was back and Benji wasn’t playing his first game.

[BILLYHIBS]

We lost to them at hampden utterly depleted and by that I mean check the team we played and just sold big Gaz and Killen was goosed. Deeks was suspended.

We played a very young Fletcher up top on his own.


We went from Garry O’Connor Derek Riordan and Killen

To none. None of them played. Scott Brown was out injured, obviously.

Benji played his first game.


Loads of people forget the above. Mowbrays side against hearts in that semi was destroyed by the yellow card Deeks got in Falkirk and Gaz got sold. Thommo was half fit too.

Sorry but I was waiting on that post to come from MWH

I have forgotten my response now

I suppose a defeat is a defeat and we all expected it :greengrin

[The 90+2]

Sorry but I was waiting on that post to come from MWH

I have forgotten my response now

I suppose a defeat is a defeat and we all expected it :greengrin

I love Tony Mowbray he seen my mates come back and best adventures of being hibs ever. I’m biased. Like you too mind so you’re forgiven 😄

[Kato]

We lost to them at hampden utterly depleted and by that I mean check the team we played and just sold big Gaz and Killen was goosed. Deeks was suspended.

We played a very young Fletcher up top on his own.


We went from Garry O’Connor Derek Riordan and Killen

To none. None of them played. Scott Brown was out injured, obviously.

Benji played his first game.


Loads of people forget the above. Mowbrays side against hearts in that semi was destroyed by the yellow card Deeks got in Falkirk and Gaz got sold. Thommo was half fit too.

We utterly shat on them before that match at Easter Road. The semi final we lost to them I don’t blame Mowbray at all for. He managed to somehow turn that around and beat them a month later when Deeks was back and Benji wasn’t playing his first game.Given Hearts budget we shouldn't have laid a glove on them that season.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

He beat them 3 times I think. How many in last 50 years done that?

Not that many Turnbull, Miller, McLeish and Lennon did it. Miller did it but had a terrible record and failed managers like Mixu and Heck both had even records against Hearts having won as many as lost. Miller's record is as shocking as Turnbull's is good.

[Glory Lurker]

Given Hearts budget we shouldn't have laid a glove on them that season.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

I don't agree. We had the golden generation coming of age. They were sold not later for prices we could never have afforded. They thumped us big style away from ER that season. We had a threadbare squad for the semi which maybe excuses the worst result that year, but the Tynecastle games were up among our worst ever over by.

[1875Sean]

In my lifetime

Mowbray
McLeish
Stubbs
Lennon
Collins
Yogi

[stu in nottingham]

Pretty close. I'm edging towards John Collins but I liked both of them.

Mowbray had quite a blind spot where goalies were concerned I thought and I'd mark him down for that. Zibi and Simon Brown anyone? In fairness, Collins persisted with them for a while if I recall correctly. There's an argument to say it's the most important position in the team.

Mowbray brought a real buzz back to Easter Road with some swashbuckling and dynamic football but which would occasionally unravel and often at important times. He appeared to have a keener eye for a player but that can sometimes be affected positively or negatively by finances and scouting etc. Certainly there were some strange Collins signings but in the market Hibs were shopping in, that can and will happen. I think sometimes people tend to forget some of the failures Mowbray signed because they were outshone by some quite brilliant ones.

I felt there was something about Collin's management that gave the players that bit more grit and dig whilst still playing attractive football, maybe in some ways like Stubbs and Lennon who followed him.

I think history will view Mowbray as the better Hibs manager but I felt there was something almost tantalisingly lost when all the nonsense started around Johnny Collins and the somewhat dubious exit that came about.

[Michael]

I don't understand how anyone could vote Collins. Hibs under Mowbray was such an exciting team and he made some good signings too.

Collins took a great team and made them a little less attractive and probably less effective overall (finished lower in the league). His signings were also really poor.

Mowbray went on to have a fairly decent career (other than Celtic) and Collins never really did anything else of note.

[wookie70]

I don't understand how anyone could vote Collins. Hibs under Mowbray was such an exciting team and he made some good signings too.

Collins took a great team and made them a little less attractive and probably less effective overall (finished lower in the league). His signings were also really poor.

Mowbray went on to have a fairly decent career (other than Celtic) and Collins never really did anything else of note. What they did after really doesn't matter though. Collins ace in the hole is a trophy win. If it was Mowbrays team that won it then Tony never managed to do it with them.

[Smartie]

I don't understand how anyone could vote Collins. Hibs under Mowbray was such an exciting team and he made some good signings too.

Collins took a great team and made them a little less attractive and probably less effective overall (finished lower in the league). His signings were also really poor.

Mowbray went on to have a fairly decent career (other than Celtic) and Collins never really did anything else of note.

By the time Collins came along the good players were starting to realise they were too big for Hibs, were planning to move on and were going to take a bit of replacing. The post-Mowbray era was always going to be a bigger challenge than the one Mowbray had - who was going to get a decent bit of time out of the good players before they wanted to move to bigger clubs.

Collins job was tougher than Mowbray's imo.

He didn't stick around for long enough to say for sure whether he had what hit took. The fact that he self-selected his way out suggests not.

[Iain G]

This thread feels like it's been set up as a thinly veiled attack on John Collins.

Why can't we like both, why does it have to be down to a choice? That cup final is worth its weight it gold, a brilliant day for the club and for Collins himself. A shame we couldn't build on it.

Great times were had under both managers.

[1875Sean]

What of people are saying about Mowbray having the better squad is correct however he added players to it like Sheils, Murphy, Sproule, Killen, Jones, Benji, Zemmama

Collins signed the likes of Brian Kerr, Alan O’Brien, Makalambay then he moaned about not having enough cash to spend at Hibs

[Magpie]

In my lifetime

Mowbray
McLeish
Stubbs
Lennon
Collins
Yogi

Plenty would have Butcher above Lennon in that list.

[Glory Lurker]

What of people are saying about Mowbray having the better squad is correct however he added players to it like Sheils, Murphy, Sproule, Killen, Jones, Benji, Zemmama

Collins signed the likes of Brian Kerr, Alan O’Brien, Makalambay then he moaned about not having enough cash to spend at Hibs

That is all true. But how much did we sell Mowbray's signings for compared to what he inherited?

[LeithMike]

All the managers listed have some pretty big weaknesses:

Mowbray - Some brilliant football but failed to sign a decent goalkeeper and refused to set the team up to defend properly. The 4-0 defeat to Hearts at Hampden was particularly frustrating when both our fullbacks were up the pitch at the same time leaving us very exposed.

McLeish - A great few years but things fell apart badly leaving Sauzee to carry the can.

Stubbs - what a gent and deliverer of the greatest day as a Hibs fan but I hated the diamond and lack of width. Didnt get the best out of McGeouch. Built a great team spirit though and really set Hibs on the road back.

Lennon - Took us on from Stubbs, improving our width and getting the best out of McGeough at the base of the midfield (perhaps by chance) and our midfield bossed pretty much every game in our first season back in the PL playing with no fear. Again, things fell apart quickly.

Collins - started great taking us on from Mowbray, improving our defence and pressing game. Looked the real deal until losing the dressing room.

Yogi - again a good start but started a steep and lasting decline.

It's really hard to rate those managers against each other as all had strong points but also significant weaknesses which undone most of the good work.

On the way we played, I have to say that I most enjoyed Lennon's style in most games but perhaps that was down to the players he had. Similarly, I think McLeish got a bit lucky with Sauzee and Latapy. Mowbray's football was great but failure to defend properly meant we weren't going to win anything.

I think it probably says a lot that I probably wouldn't take any back.

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[Magpie]

Has Tony Mowbray ever won a trophy as manager?

[shamo9]

Has Tony Mowbray ever won a trophy as manager?

He won the Championship with West Brom in 2008 playing the same brand of exciting football that we saw at Hibs. Also got to the semi final of the FA Cup that year. Pretty impressive. At the time he looked like he was gonna be the next big thing.

I sometimes wonder what that Hibs team could've achieved if Mowbray had been able to recruit a good goalkeeper. Rocky or Bogdan would've been interesting...

Daniel Andersson staying in 2004 is a big 'what if' moment for me

[Magpie]

He won the Championship with West Brom in 2008 playing the same brand of exciting football that we saw at Hibs. Also got to the semi final of the FA Cup that year. Pretty impressive. At the time he looked like he was gonna be the next big thing.

I sometimes wonder what that Hibs team could've achieved if Mowbray had been able to recruit a good goalkeeper. Rocky or Bogdan would've been interesting...

Daniel Andersson staying in 2004 is a big 'what if' moment.

Thanks. I’ve kept an eye out for Blackburn this season and they have started the season pretty well, 6 points off top with the 2nd best goal difference in the league after 16 games and a game in hand on most. Signs that the attacking brand of football is still in full swing. Hope he’s successful with them.

[monktonharp]

Tony Mowbray, Mark Venus. anyone related to the gorgie mob's a *****. end of

[monktonharp]

awrite admins, I ment a pee pee :wink:

[Curried]

Mowbray all day long....assembled one hell of team that was a joy to watch.

[Potty78]

Mowbray added quality to a team who already had a few good players coming through. Whitts, Thomson, Riordan, o'connor and brown then add in the signings of murphy, zemamma, benji, jones killen and a couple of others. Collins came in and won the cup with those players then had to build after selling most of them. His signings were awful in the most part. Mowbray bu far for me👍

[Keith_M]

Ehm, naw.




:rolleyes:

[Since452]

Mowbray. Not even close. The most enjoyable time I've had being a Hibs fan. Rocking up to Ibrox and Celtic park and playing them off the park and having them chase shadows. Was usually followed by a defeat to Falkirk or someone to keep things interesting 😉

[Key West]

Mowbray for me, I was never convinced Collins would make it as a manager, though he was an excellent player.

[makaveli1875]

Its a tough 1 , The Mowbray days were great most of the time but he won hee haw and that semi final was at the time the worst id felt at full time after a Hibs game

Collins on the other hand wasnt great at times but that day at hampden was at the time the best id ever felt at full time , the SOL at the end . everything about that day makes me pick Collins

Stubbsy over those 2 by a fair margin though

[H18S NX]

Mowbray,no brainer for me.

[Spike Mandela]

Over their careers they have both won more than Levein.:cb

[Hermit Crab]

Under Mowbray we were nicknamed the Arsenal of the North by some English fans as our style of play was similar to Arsenals invincibles method of blowing teams away, we gathered quite a bit of media attention down South under Mowbray. We were regularly destroying teams and some of the football was a joy to watch. We were unlucky that Hearts came into money at the same time and had a an equally good side albeit they couldn't afford the players.

We did come a cropper a few times under Mowbray though, I mind us getting absolutely scudded by Livingston 0-3 at ER in a game we were expected to win, we lost heavily to Dnipro and went out of the Intertoto cup to OB Odense on away goals and of course several pumping at Tynecastle as well. That team should have at least gotten to the SCF and if it had not been for injuries, bad luck and a horrendous goalkeeper I think that team could have won the SC in 05/06.

Mowbray for me, you were actually excited going to games and as soon as the final whistle blew you couldn't wait for the next game to come along.

[jacomo]

I liked them both, many good times to remember under both managers. I don't really see the need for this kind of ranking nonsense.

However, I've voted Collins just to piss off all those posting 'no brainer' or 'not even close' comments. Sure, Mowbray built the squad, but Collins got the most out of them.

The single best day under either manager was the 2007 League Cup Final. FACT. END OF. I'LL FIGHT YOU IF YOU SAY DIFFERENT.

[The 90+2]

I liked them both, many good times to remember under both managers. I don't really see the need for this kind of ranking nonsense.

However, I've voted Collins just to piss off all those posting 'no brainer' or 'not even close' comments. Sure, Mowbray built the squad, but Collins got the most out of them.

The single best day under either manager was the 2007 League Cup Final. FACT. END OF. I'LL FIGHT YOU IF YOU SAY DIFFERENT.

I’ve never came away from a football match ever with a better feeling apart from the greatest day in history than when we beat Rangers at Easter Road, took the utter piss out them and Ferguson got sent off. League Cup Final on Mother’s Day with my ma’ at the game does pip it though 😄

[The 90+2]

This thread feels like it's been set up as a thinly veiled attack on John Collins.

Why can't we like both, why does it have to be down to a choice? That cup final is worth its weight it gold, a brilliant day for the club and for Collins himself. A shame we couldn't build on it.

Great times were had under both managers.

Not true. It’s been an argument for ages, why not have it out once and for all? 🤷*♂️😀

[jacomo]

Not true. It’s been an argument for ages, why not have it out once and for all? 🤷*♂️😀


Ok... it’s an argument for fools. We were onto a good thing with JC but we gave a rookie manager the wrong assistant, no decent scouting support and too little budget.

I don’t care if the players couldn’t cope with more intensive training and I don’t care what he did or didn’t do after us, much as I don’t care about Stubbs’ record at Rotherham or St Mirren.

[The 90+2]

Ok... it’s an argument for fools. We were onto a good thing with JC but we gave a rookie manager the wrong assistant, no decent scouting support and too little budget.

I don’t care if the players couldn’t cope with more intensive training and I don’t care what he did or didn’t do after us, much as I don’t care about Stubbs’ record at Rotherham or St Mirren.

And Mowbray wasn’t a rookie manager with a lot less budget than JC when appointed? Collins got scouting and training support from some boy in France and just thought he could bring athletes with very little footballing ability into the squad. The players could cope with the training, it was hopeless though. The players had a saying that they would learn a thing about football every week under Mowbray, that all went for running when he left.

I wish we got Venus.

It’s not an argument for fools either, some express Mowbray some JC. It’s well worthy of a discussion.

[Iggy Pope]

I would usually believe that and think it's undoubtedly best for the club if he didn't leave THE NEXT DAY after your article. :agree:

BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | Hibernian | Collins resigns as Hibs manager (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/7153893.stm)





I don know you've the best of the club at heart though but who's to say what was ***** or not? I'm lead to believe he had very little to do with it and it was the Parks, plus still speaking to Mowbray that developed it.

He had plenty input all through it. I’ve told you that. You boldly stated he had none. I was the Project Manager of the fit out. I had the confidence of Petrie and Garry O’Hagan. The day we completed the First Team lockers John Collins sat beside me and my site manager and told us it would change players lives. I have his signature on my Hi - Vis somewhere. He attended meetings I was at. Why would I say otherwise? I’m qualified to speak on this even if I can’t pick a first team manager to save myself. If you’d been around here at the time, you’d maybe recall that I used to post updates and pics with the clubs consent. Your thread started out as a bit of fun but your trademark is all over it now I’m afraid you can’t help yourself.. You’re a stirrer of ****.

[The Modfather]

And Mowbray wasn’t a rookie manager with a lot less budget than JC when appointed? Collins got scouting and training support from some boy in France and just thought he could bring athletes with very little footballing ability into the squad. The players could cope with the training, it was hopeless though. The players had a saying that they would learn a thing about football every week under Mowbray, that all went for running when he left.

I wish we got Venus.

It’s not an argument for fools either, some express Mowbray some JC. It’s well worthy of a discussion.

I’m not sure that’s a very objective take on things. The “some boy in France” was Roger Propos a fitnes coach. Even to my amateur eye it was clear to see the benefit, that's probably the fittest Hibs team I've seen. OK, it may be similar to things today as football has evolved and we're more professional as a club but at the time we were ahead of the curve fitness wise.

Lewis Stevenson is someone who bought into John Collins’ philosophy and speaks highly of him and what he learned under him. Collins admits he made mistakes, “Looking back, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Maybe it was too much too soon, maybe I was being a bit strict, maybe I was a bit stubborn.I was a bit inexperienced, we all make mistakes, we all live or die by our decisions”. I think it’s fair to criticise his signings, possibly his man management and the implementation of his ideas. I think it’s difficult to criticise his ideas though and believe the “all we do at training is running”. Listen to the sport sound podcast where he talked about his time at Monaco and what an eye opener that was as to professionalism on the continent. Compare that to complaints from players, probably the likes of Michael Stuart and Kevin Thomson, and see how they stack up.

[The 90+2]

He had plenty input all through it. I’ve told you that. You boldly stated he had none. I was the Project Manager of the fit out. I had the confidence of Petrie and Garry O’Hagan. The day we completed the First Team lockers John Collins sat beside me and my site manager and told us it would change players lives. I have his signature on my Hi - Vis somewhere. He attended meetings I was at. Why would I say otherwise? I’m qualified to speak on this even if I can’t pick a first team manager to save myself. If you’d been around here at the time, you’d maybe recall that I used to post updates and pics with the clubs consent. Your thread started out as a bit of fun but your trademark is all over it now I’m afraid you can’t help yourself.. You’re a stirrer of ****.

No problemo. I believe you. He still walked out though. The day after it opened, why? Ego. A bit like yourself tbf.

The last part of your post I take issue with also. Where do I stir *****? All you do is go about sending abuse and belittling posters you don’t agree with. There’s absolutely no need as your posts in general are fantastic when you’re not starting with someone. Thankfully it’s becoming less and less a group on here thinking they are better and more important than others.

[The 90+2]

I’m not sure that’s a very objective take on things. The “some boy in France” was Roger Propos a fitnes coach. Even to my amateur eye it was clear to see the benefit, that's probably the fittest Hibs team I've seen. OK, it may be similar to things today as football has evolved and we're more professional as a club but at the time we were ahead of the curve fitness wise.

Lewis Stevenson is someone who bought into John Collins’ philosophy and speaks highly of him and what he learned under him. Collins admits he made mistakes, “Looking back, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Maybe it was too much too soon, maybe I was being a bit strict, maybe I was a bit stubborn.I was a bit inexperienced, we all make mistakes, we all live or die by our decisions”. I think it’s fair to criticise his signings, possibly his man management and the implementation of his ideas. I think it’s difficult to criticise his ideas though and believe the “all we do at training is running”. Listen to the sport sound podcast where he talked about his time at Monaco and what an eye opener that was as to professionalism on the continent. Compare that to complaints from players, probably the likes of Michael Stuart and Kevin Thomson, and see how they stack up.

He employed (remember the no budget comment) a fitness coach instead of a footballing coach. He then went on to slag off erm Neil Lennon for the fitness of the Celtic squad. Collins was the ultimate Pro’ he didn’t know how to deal with footballers though, he (maybe rightly and maybe why good players don’t make managers) thought the players where beneath him though. Lewis was the only player to take on his traits and has had a fantastic career through dedication. Mowbray knew how to handle the brilliant players though, as did McLeish. Could you imagine Wee Russell running riot against Hearts or Mixu up top under JC? No he would have had Tom Smith in the middle of the field and a 18 year old Tam McManus running about with energy up top.

[The Modfather]

He employed (remember the no budget comment) a fitness coach instead of a footballing coach. He then went on to slag off erm Neil Lennon for the fitness of the Celtic squad. Collins was the ultimate Pro’ he didn’t know how to deal with footballers though, he (maybe rightly and maybe why good players don’t make managers) thought the players where beneath him though. Lewis was the only player to take on his traits and has had a fantastic career through dedication. Mowbray knew how to handle the brilliant players though, as did McLeish. Could you imagine Wee Russell running riot against Hearts or Mixu up top under JC? No he would have had Tom Smith in the middle of the field and a 18 year old Tam McManus running about with energy up top.

I’m not sure I understand your criticism of the fitness coach. The benefits were evident and that was one of his successes, regardless of anything else.

He thought the players were beneath him? What evidence is there for that? He clearly struggled with man management of those who didn’t buy into his philosophy but not seen any evidence to suggest he thought players were beneath him.

I’m not sure you’re interested in any meaningful debate tbh with your reference to Tam Smith and an 18 year old Tam McManus. I don’t remember him having any particular problems with the likes of Benji or Zemamma.

Think it’s best to just agree to disagree.

[The 90+2]

Cool no bother 👍

[Iggy Pope]

No problemo. I believe you. He still walked out though. The day after it opened, why? Ego. A bit like yourself tbf.

The last part of your post I take issue with also. Where do I stir *****? All you do is go about sending abuse and belittling posters you don’t agree with. There’s absolutely no need as your posts in general are fantastic when you’re not starting with someone. Thankfully it’s becoming less and less a group on here thinking they are better and more important than others.

1 Bit in bold. That’s all I do.
2.Bit in bold. Make your mind up.

I’ve no idea why Collins walked out, neither have you and anyway, that’s not what I replied to you on really. It was your insistence based on nothing at all that he had no role in East Mains which is wrong, wildly wrong.
Ego. Away man. I’ve never threatened to withdraw my use of this site after throwing a wee tantrum when I was proved wrong about something (and that happens to me plenty). You have though and here we still are.

Let’s call it quits, you believe me even though you’ve doubted it twice and you don’t think I’ve got the best interests of the club at heart, whatever the **** that meant.
Responding to you isn’t healthy. I’m out of your posts as you enjoy being the wideo and getting to the wind up. I should’ve known better.

[Allez Hibs]

John Collins. Easily.

[ancient hibee]

I


He employed (remember the no budget comment) a fitness coach instead of a footballing coach. He then went on to slag off erm Neil Lennon for the fitness of the Celtic squad. Collins was the ultimate Pro’ he didn’t know how to deal with footballers though, he (maybe rightly and maybe why good players don’t make managers) thought the players where beneath him though. Lewis was the only player to take on his traits and has had a fantastic career through dedication. Mowbray knew how to handle the brilliant players though, as did McLeish. Could you imagine Wee Russell running riot against Hearts or Mixu up top under JC? No he would have had Tom Smith in the middle of the field and a 18 year old Tam McManus running about with energy up top.

It’s a myth that good players don’t make managers.There’s been plenty.

[The 90+2]

1 Bit in bold. That’s all I do.
2.Bit in bold. Make your mind up.

I’ve no idea why Collins walked out, neither have you and anyway, that’s not what I replied to you on really. It was your insistence based on nothing at all that he had no role in East Mains which is wrong, wildly wrong.
Ego. Away man. I’ve never threatened to withdraw my use of this site after throwing a wee tantrum when I was proved wrong about something (and that happens to me plenty). You have though and here we still are.

Let’s call it quits, you believe me even though you’ve doubted it twice and you don’t think I’ve got the best interests of the club at heart, whatever the **** that meant.
Responding to you isn’t healthy. I’m out of your posts as you enjoy being the wideo and getting to the wind up. I should’ve known better.

No problem.

You are completely incorrect but no problem.

[The 90+2]

I



It’s a myth that good players don’t make managers.There’s been plenty.

Not nearly as many as ***** players who make great managers. Imo.

Stein and Ferguson, Turnbull, three best Scottish managers ever one the exception of Ned then Walter Smith, all not every good footballers.

[The 90+2]

Over 70% says Mowbray was a better manager for Hibernian then? Let it run another day (keeping festive).

[basehibby]

Got to be Mowbray for me.

I really wanted Collins to succeed and - although he gave us a wonderfully unforgettable day out at Hampden - ultimately he didn't have the experience or mental toughness to push his vision through.

Mowbray on the other hand - when he was first recruited I was far from impressed but soon got to be increasingly enthused as his generally unknown signings proved almost to a man to be inspired and he melded them quickly with the brilliant generation of youngsters blooded by Williamson before him. The result was football to drool over. I watched the Si Ferry interview with Riordan recently and Deeks opined that if that team could have been held together for a couple more seasons they could have won the league. Always a tough nut to crack for any non-OF team but he wasn't far wrong!

[SteveHFC]

Mowbray. Was his team that won the cup. Liked Collins but he lost the dressing room and signed a lot of dross in the end.

It was Mowbray's team in the cup final but Collins won it for us.

[G B Young]

I was excited when Collins succeeded Mowbray and initially I thought he was the man to take us to the next level. He certainly started like a train, gubbing the yams and winning the League Cup. There was an away game at Motherwell which we won 6-1 where I thought 'we're witnessing something special here'. However, as soon as the 'player revolt' took place things never felt the same and it became clear something wasn't right. The Scottish Cup semi loss to Dunfermline was pathetic (we had a really decent shout of winning both cups that year) and despite a decent run of results at the start of the next season we'd become a pretty poor side and it quickly unravelled.

Mowbray was a breath of fresh air and was a perfect fit for Hibs at the time. The football he played was great and those 3-0 wins at Ibrox will live long in the memory. He got the very best out of our young players and, unlike Collins, had a good eye for a signing. Even now I'd be happy enough to see him back at ER one day.

[Iain G]

Not true. It’s been an argument for ages, why not have it out once and for all? 🤷*♂️😀

It's not an argument at all! Both were good for us.

Why did you start a poll? What do you hope to get out of all of this, some stats to say I told you so? And did John Collins run over your hamster or something?

[Jones28]

Collins oversaw one of the best derby performances many of us will have ever seen and a league cup win that was one of the best Hibs Hampden performances we as a support have ever seen. He also oversaw one of the biggest falls from grace we as a support have ever seen, one of the worst fall outs between players and managers and generally a complete breakdown of relationship between players and management.

Mowbray saw us win a couple of derbies, some of the most exciting football, some great results - especially in Glasgow - but also saw us get a few doings, derbies especially. No trophy, but built the foundations for the league cup win. His signings were infinitely better - Murphy, Killen, Sproule, Boozy the pick of the bunch. The way he nurtured those young players was excellent and we have Williamson and Mowbray to thank for that team and the money the players brought in.

On balance Mowbray for me, he has a legacy at the club - despite him coming back a being a prick but you could put that down as toeing the party line I suppose.

[silverhibee]

Got to be Mowbray for me.

I really wanted Collins to succeed and - although he gave us a wonderfully unforgettable day out at Hampden - ultimately he didn't have the experience or mental toughness to push his vision through.

Mowbray on the other hand - when he was first recruited I was far from impressed but soon got to be increasingly enthused as his generally unknown signings proved almost to a man to be inspired and he melded them quickly with the brilliant generation of youngsters blooded by Williamson before him. The result was football to drool over. I watched the Si Ferry interview with Riordan recently and Deeks opined that if that team could have been held together for a couple more seasons they could have won the league. Always a tough nut to crack for any non-OF team but he wasn't far wrong!

Was just a pity the club were more interested in selling the young players than keeping them together for a few more years.

[HendoDelivered]

Mowbray...

[The Modfather]

Was just a pity the club were more interested in selling the young players than keeping them together for a few more years.

Collins talked about Thomson & Brown coming to him shortly after he arrived for advice about agents. He said they then went with Willie Mckay, which meant only one thing. Thomson & Brown both wanted to leave so I don’t think we could have done much more than we did in convincing Brown to stay one more season.

Although I do think we were very rigid and far too conservative during that period. I get Hearts have always spent silly money but they paid Craig Gordon what he was worth and kept him for far longer than we would have IMO. I don’t think we had anywhere near the flexibility with our budget to break our wage cap and keep our youngsters for longer, possibly at the expense of having a smaller squad.

[MWHIBBIES]

Was just a pity the club were more interested in selling the young players than keeping them together for a few more years.

Riordan walked
Brown/Thomson caused trouble
Murray walked
Caldwell walked

Rest got offered silly money and had heads turned.

The club got good fees and invested it well, in the training ground and east stand. I don't think we had much choice because they would've run contracts down and left for nothing.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Mowbray for me.

I can't remember a time when I have looked forwards to the next Saturday as i did when he was in charge.

[CockneyRebel]

Riordan walked
Brown/Thomson caused trouble
Murray walked
Caldwell walked

Rest got offered silly money and had heads turned.

The club got good fees and invested it well, in the training ground and east stand. I don't think we had much choice because they would've run contracts down and left for nothing.



I thought the money paid for the other stands as the East stand was built much later?

[The 90+2]

I thought the money paid for the other stands as the East stand was built much later?

It paid off the debt for the West plus Fletcher being sold paid for the East I’m sure.

[Hibs90]

I liked both but Collins with O'Connor, Riordan etc would have been very interesting.

[hibsbollah]

Mowbray for me.

I can't remember a time when I have looked forwards to the next Saturday as i did when he was in charge.

This is it exactly. There was a real anticipation walking up St Clair St every fortnight. You knew what you were going to get with Mowbray teams, it wasn’t always three points but it was great to watch.

In defence of Collins, he came up with some bits of genius from time to time. That 3-3 against the hun at ER was a pure joy to watch, devastatingly passing football, and he did with the likes of Shelton Martis, Ross The Pointy Finger Chisholm and Chris Hogg in the starting XI. Played Boozy at centre back.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Big Mogga easily.

[The 90+2]

This is it exactly. There was a real anticipation walking up St Clair St every fortnight. You knew what you were going to get with Mowbray teams, it wasn’t always three points but it was great to watch.

In defence of Collins, he came up with some bits of genius from time to time. That 3-3 against the hun at ER was a pure joy to watch, devastatingly passing football, and he did with the likes of Shelton Martis, Ross The Pointy Finger Chisholm and Chris Hogg in the starting XI. Played Boozy at centre back.

That 3-3 game was incredible. Did boozy not get sent off for sod all? Next again week or so we beat Celtic Browns last game.

[Iggy Pope]

I thought the money paid for the other stands as the East stand was built much later?

Petrie and the board took a punt on falling steel prices after the UKs boom or bust to build the East when not a lot of speculative construction was happening elsewhere, something they were very vocal about. Profits on the likes of Stephen Fletcher and going back a bit further, David Murphy and Ivan Sproule, would certainly have helped the coffers but it was 2010 before a hammer was struck so you’re right, the East was probably not on the horizon when either Mowbray or Collins were about.

Can’t give the sale of the Golden Generation much cred for building the other stands though other than clearing the debt (remember ‘Stand Up and Be Counted’)? We were in hock but we were still signing the likes of De La Cruz who made his home debut on the day the new West was opened so the last of the three stands was already well in place before Williamson arrived, far less Mowbray.

Tom Farmer was always given more credit for the development of all of our infrastructure than player sales were. But that’s another story.

[hibsbollah]

That 3-3 game was incredible. Did boozy not get sent off for sod all? Next again week or so we beat Celtic Browns last game.

He did indeed. He was having a tremendous game as a sort of sweeper and then got sent off for being run into. It was Charlie Richmond, a truly terrible decision from the worst ref I’d ever seen. There was another shocker of a ref around at that time was it Alan Freedland or something like that?

[The 90+2]

He did indeed. He was having a tremendous game as a sort of sweeper and then got sent off for being run into. It was Charlie Richmond, a truly terrible decision from the worst ref I’d ever seen. There was another shocker of a ref around at that time was it Alan Freedland or something like that?

Freeland a complete bawbag. He nearly started a riot against Falkirk one game. One of the only times I ever seen Mowbray lost the plot.

[jacomo]

Collins talked about Thomson & Brown coming to him shortly after he arrived for advice about agents. He said they then went with Willie Mckay, which meant only one thing. Thomson & Brown both wanted to leave so I don’t think we could have done much more than we did in convincing Brown to stay one more season.

Although I do think we were very rigid and far too conservative during that period. I get Hearts have always spent silly money but they paid Craig Gordon what he was worth and kept him for far longer than we would have IMO. I don’t think we had anywhere near the flexibility with our budget to break our wage cap and keep our youngsters for longer, possibly at the expense of having a smaller squad.


We, like Hearts, had a real scare in 2002/03 when the TV deal went sour and the banks suddenly decided to stop indulging football clubs. We were both around £17-18m in debt at that point and in serious danger of losing our historic home ground.

We, unlike Hearts, cut our cloth and cleared our debts.

This meant the inevitable break up of the golden generation but it was the responsible course to take.

[Smartie]

Freelance was a complete bawbag. He nearly started a riot against Falkirk one game.

I've seen refs struggle to control feisty games in the past but Freeland looked hell bent on creating trouble in that one - iirc there wasn't even anything that controversial until he started to get involved.

Most suspicious refereeing performance I've seen.

[Alex Trager]

Calderwood.

And that’s that