Brexit and signing players

[neil7908]

Just to be clear this is not a political post so any comments on politics please take to the Holy Ground!

But this article

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55152637

on the rules for English teams signing players from 1st January has got me worried.

I can't see any anything to suggest these rules apply to Scotland but would be very concerned if we were to adopt something similar.

I'm all for us looking at more home grown players but this will massively restrict the market we can operate in.

[Moulin Yarns]

Just to be clear this is not a political post so any comments on politics please take to the Holy Ground!

But this article

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55152637

on the rules for English teams signing players from 1st January has got me worried.

I can't see any anything to suggest these rules apply to Scotland but would be very concerned if we were to adopt something similar.

I'm all for us looking at more home grown players but this will massively restrict the market we can operate in.

It only mentions English clubs but these immigration rules will apply across the whole 4 nations as it is a reserved matter to Westminster (as politically neutral as I could make it :wink:)

Edit: It will affect clubs like ours more than Celtc and The Rangers as it will be more difficult for players we could sign to meet the points criteria

[PatHead]

It only mentions English clubs but these immigration rules will apply across the whole 4 nations as it is a reserved matter to Westminster (as politically neutral as I could make it :wink:)

Edit: It will affect clubs like ours more than Celtc and The Rangers as it will be more difficult for players we could sign to meet the points criteria

Not so sure that they will apply equally across the whole of the UK.

When restrictions were in place before, the benchmark was lower for Scottish clubs. This took account of the lower amount of money in Scottish football.

A plus could be English clubs looking at the Scottish market again.

It will definitely impact on us though.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not so sure that they will apply equally across the whole of the UK.

When restrictions were in place before, the benchmark was lower for Scottish clubs. This took account of the lower amount of money in Scottish football.

A plus could be English clubs looking at the Scottish market again.

It will definitely impact on us though.

What makes you think any concession will be given to Scottish football from the Home Office. (trying desperately not to be political 😉)

[Alan62]

It's difficult not to be political about Brexit or to resist passing comment on the UK's choice to leave the European Union but it absolutely stands to reason that if you end freedom of movement between the member states, then you absolutely reduce the number of people in any profession who can freely move to this country to apply their trade. That includes football and, inevitably, clubs like ours will suffer. Brexit reduces our freedom of movement to British passport holders, Republic of Ireland passport holders and those who meet a points-based threshold. Points are earned for expertise and, for footballers, that generally means international recognition and playing regularly at a very high level.

The most important thing though is that the potential player marker reduces for ALL British clubs. That inevitably increases competition for the reduced number of good players who are available and will likely inflate costs. Simple economics really, reduce the supply, increase the demand, inflate the costs.

[Green_one]

Who in the current team would not get in? I think the coming economic downturn is likely to impact signings.

More likely to have issues moving goods over the border, especially in the early months. January transfer window might be messy down south. Least of the issues we will be facing by then.

[Edinburgh Green]

Not so sure that they will apply equally across the whole of the UK.

When restrictions were in place before, the benchmark was lower for Scottish clubs. This took account of the lower amount of money in Scottish football.

A plus could be English clubs looking at the Scottish market again.

It will definitely impact on us though.

Why would this be a plus? Now if we were trying to sign a player from other teams in the league ie Alan Campbell, Ross Stewart we will be in competition with English clubs with bigger resources.

[CockneyRebel]

It's difficult not to be political about Brexit or to resist passing comment on the UK's choice to leave the European Union but it absolutely stands to reason that if you end freedom of movement between the member states, then you absolutely reduce the number of people in any profession who can freely move to this country to apply their trade. That includes football and, inevitably, clubs like ours will suffer. Brexit reduces our freedom of movement to British passport holders, Republic of Ireland passport holders and those who meet a points-based threshold. Points are earned for expertise and, for footballers, that generally means international recognition and playing regularly at a very high level.

The most important thing though is that the potential player marker reduces for ALL British clubs. That inevitably increases competition for the reduced number of good players who are available and will likely inflate costs. Simple economics really, reduce the supply, increase the demand, inflate the costs.


Politics aside - would it not help British football in the long term. How many cheap and cheerful imports have been bought in and been gash? Not all foreigners are better than the home grown variety. If you look at the detail you find that the bar gets raised or lowered according to country, league and club. Hibs would have a wider player pool to choose from than, say, Man City or Liverpool and even the OF (also bear in mind that we can't currently compete with these clubs anyway at the high end of the market). More British players would get opportunities leading, hopefully, to a closer look at player development which in turn could improve the quality of the national teams.

All this IMO of course and not everything will be rosey but take away political point scoring and I can see possible benefits.

[CockneyRebel]

Why would this be a plus? Now if we were trying to sign a player from other teams in the league ie Alan Campbell, Ross Stewart we will be in competition with English clubs with bigger resources.



Surely that has always been the case historically? It is only enormous TV money, allowing English clubs to buy any players from EU countries, that turned them away from the Scottish market. We can't compete with the OF never mind English clubs.

[Alan62]

Politics aside - would it not help British football in the long term. How many cheap and cheerful imports have been bought in and been gash? Not all foreigners are better than the home grown variety. If you look at the detail you find that the bar gets raised or lowered according to country, league and club. Hibs would have a wider player pool to choose from than, say, Man City or Liverpool and even the OF (also bear in mind that we can't currently compete with these clubs anyway at the high end of the market). More British players would get opportunities leading, hopefully, to a closer look at player development which in turn could improve the quality of the national teams.

All this IMO of course and not everything will be rosey but take away political point scoring and I can see possible benefits.

No, I think you're missing the point.

The EU currently has a population of 447 million. Some of them are footballers and all of those footballers can freely move between the 27 member states. After Brexit, 26 member states have the freedom of movement and one former member has freedom of movement for 66 million residents, 5 million Irish nationals, various folks in the passport holding diaspora and anybody who make the immigration points criteria.

In UK football world, all the teams are now competing for a much smaller number of potential players. While this does create opportunity for British players, I can't see how it increases opportunity for Hibs. My view would be that we're shopping in a much smaller market and paying higher prices for whatever is on offer.

[J-C]

Why would this be a plus? Now if we were trying to sign a player from other teams in the league ie Alan Campbell, Ross Stewart we will be in competition with English clubs with bigger resources.

It would be a plus because we'd get the correct value instead of on the cheap as it is now, mcginn was a £5m player but Villa got a bargain, we only score if he's sold for many millions again.

[CockneyRebel]

No, I think you're missing the point.

The EU currently has a population of 447 million. Some of them are footballers and all of those footballers can freely move between the 27 member states. After Brexit, 26 member states have the freedom of movement and one former member has freedom of movement for 66 million residents, 5 million Irish nationals, various folks in the passport holding diaspora and anybody who make the immigration points criteria.

In UK football world, all the teams are now competing for a much smaller number of potential players. While this does create opportunity for British players, I can't see how it increases opportunity for Hibs. My view would be that we're shopping in a much smaller market and paying higher prices for whatever is on offer.


I never said it would increase the opportunities for Hibs from the current level but it would give us a wider pool to recruit from than the bigger clubs at the new levels because our bar will be lower than the bar they can recruit from. The level of player wouldn't change much for us as we don't compete with the bigger clubs anyway.

[Edinburgh Green]

It would be a plus because we'd get the correct value instead of on the cheap as it is now, mcginn was a £5m player but Villa got a bargain, we only score if he's sold for many millions again.

Disagree. We will always be viewed as a 'farmers league' in the eyes of the English and therefore they will continue to low ball us with their offers.

Of Course McGinn was a bargain for Villa, but there was hardly a long line of English clubs queuing up to take advantage of this bargain.

[MWHIBBIES]

It would be a plus because we'd get the correct value instead of on the cheap as it is now, mcginn was a £5m player but Villa got a bargain, we only score if he's sold for many millions again.

Why would we suddenly get the correct value?

[J-C]

Disagree. We will always be viewed as a 'farmers league' in the eyes of the English and therefore they will continue to low ball us with their offers.

Of Course McGinn was a bargain for Villa, but there was hardly a long line of English clubs queuing up to take advantage of this bargain.

If Brexit has this massive impact, the English clubs will start to look at other options for players and instead of only one club looking to buy, it may be many which means higher bids.

[Alan62]

I never said it would increase the opportunities for Hibs from the current level but it would give us a wider pool to recruit from than the bigger clubs at the new levels because our bar will be lower than the bar they can recruit from. The level of player wouldn't change much for us as we don't compete with the bigger clubs anyway.

I am missing something here. How do you see us having a wider pool to recruit from?

The pool reduces for all clubs in the market. This means the top clubs are forced downwards in their selection criteria. That brings more clubs into competition with us and reduces the potential pool. Happy to hear an alternative view on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PatHead]

What makes you think any concession will be given to Scottish football from the Home Office. (trying desperately not to be political 😉)

As I mentioned, the threshold was lower for Scottish clubs than English clubs when restrictions were in place.

It's therefore not unreasonable to hope for the same again?

[PatHead]

Why would this be a plus? Now if we were trying to sign a player from other teams in the league ie Alan Campbell, Ross Stewart we will be in competition with English clubs with bigger resources.

We might sell players for higher fees. This would allow us to pay more to our players and might help us compete for the likes of Alan Campbell who is out of contract.

[Northernhibee]

We might sell players for higher fees. This would allow us to pay more to our players and might help us compete for the likes of Alan Campbell who is out of contract.

Alan Campbell who will again be out of our price range because there will be clubs down south who will now take more interest in him as he's one of a smaller pool of players they could sign without hassle?

[Moulin Yarns]

As I mentioned, the threshold was lower for Scottish clubs than English clubs when restrictions were in place.

It's therefore not unreasonable to hope for the same again?

You can hope all you like but I wouldn't put any money on it as I don't see any flexibility from the Home Office for Scottish football (still trying not to get political :wink:)

[ancient hibee]

How many Euro players are currently in our first team squad?

[Onceinawhile]

How many Euro players are currently in our first team squad?

All of them I think.

Our only non UK player I can think of are Rocky, hallberg and gogic. .

[PatHead]

You can hope all you like but I wouldn't put any money on it as I don't see any flexibility from the Home Office for Scottish football (still trying not to get political :wink:)

Maybe I better vote for independence and celebrate us being able to sign European megastars.😂

Trying to stay non political.

[WhileTheChief..]

What makes you think any concession will be given to Scottish football from the Home Office. (trying desperately not to be political 😉)

Why wouldn't they?

Does the Home Office have something against Scottish Football or is this simply you making your political point whilst pretending not to?

I doubt Hibs will be affected in the slightest come Jan 1.

[Alan62]

How many Euro players are currently in our first team squad?

Hallberg and Gogic. Dab row ski in loan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Why wouldn't they?

Does the Home Office have something against Scottish Football or is this simply you making your political point whilst pretending not to?

I doubt Hibs will be affected in the slightest come Jan 1.

Maybe the question should be, what discussions have the sfa had with the home office to allow non UK nationals to play for Scottish football clubs? It seems everything is in place for the FA in England from the reports.



https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18060319.brexit-shortcuts-see-spfl-clubs-miss-top-players/

That's from 11 months ago.

[Alan62]

Hallberg and Gogic. Dab row ski in loan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

*Dabrowski

*****i*ng autocorrect!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Why wouldn't they?

Does the Home Office have something against Scottish Football or is this simply you making your political point whilst pretending not to?

I doubt Hibs will be affected in the slightest come Jan 1.

For clarification, I don't think the home office has anything against Scottish football, but what makes anyone think that they will look at Scottish football any more favourably than what they have agreed with the FA?

[Glory Lurker]

I think it's great news. If clubs are restricted in who they can sign from abroad that surely increases my chances of finally being noticed and going pro.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think it's great news. If clubs are restricted in who they can sign from abroad that surely increases my chances of finally being noticed and going pro.

I could be cruel and say it's a race to the bottom, but that's a bit naughty. 😉

[ancient hibee]

If we don’t shop to any great extent in this market now does it have much effect on us?

[Monts]

Called it :wink:

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?336526-Brexit-and-the-transfer-window&highlight=

[CockneyRebel]

I am missing something here. How do you see us having a wider pool to recruit from?

The pool reduces for all clubs in the market. This means the top clubs are forced downwards in their selection criteria. That brings more clubs into competition with us and reduces the potential pool. Happy to hear an alternative view on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The bigger clubs would only be able to buy from the pool of players meeting the high criteria level set against their league/country/club status. We would recruit from a lower criteria level which would contain many more players who would not meet the top clubs criteria (so they could not buy them) - our pool would be much bigger than theirs simply because there are fewer high calibre players. We may not have as wide a selection as before but it would be wider than the bigger clubs would have which was my point.

[Moulin Yarns]

The bigger clubs would only be able to buy from the pool of players meeting the high criteria level set against their league/country/club status. We would recruit from a lower criteria level which would contain many more players who would not meet the top clubs criteria (so they could not buy them) - our pool would be much bigger than theirs simply because there are fewer high calibre players. We may not have as wide a selection as before but it would be wider than the bigger clubs would have which was my point.

How would the bigger clubs be restricted to buy from only the highest criteria? Is the criteria for players outside the UK not going to be the same for every league?

[CockneyRebel]

How would the bigger clubs be restricted to buy from only the highest criteria? Is the criteria for players outside the UK not going to be the same for every league?

The criteria for a player to meet the transfer requirements is graded by country/league club status, so top rated clubs in top leagues get access to high criteria players, medium rated clubs get access to the players with a slightly lower criteria and so on down the way. Man City/Liverpool could only buy players with the highest criteria so Hibs would be operating in a lower rated player pool.

This is explained in more detail in various statements (I read mine on the BBC Sports website).

[Moulin Yarns]

The criteria for a player to meet the transfer requirements is graded by country/league club status, so top rated clubs in top leagues get access to high criteria players, medium rated clubs get access to the players with a slightly lower criteria and so on down the way. Man City/Liverpool could only buy players with the highest criteria so Hibs would be operating in a lower rated player pool.

This is explained in more detail in various statements (I read mine on the BBC Sports website).

Are you saying that we are not allowed to sign Messi because of some stitch up?

[Alan62]

The bigger clubs would only be able to buy from the pool of players meeting the high criteria level set against their league/country/club status. We would recruit from a lower criteria level which would contain many more players who would not meet the top clubs criteria (so they could not buy them) - our pool would be much bigger than theirs simply because there are fewer high calibre players. We may not have as wide a selection as before but it would be wider than the bigger clubs would have which was my point.

Ah, no, that's absolutely not how it works.

The richer clubs have access to a much-reduced number of players who meet the criteria. This forces them to shop in the remaining pool of players. They then cream off the top players and once they're gone, they fill their squads out with the best of the rest. Teams with less spending power then have to look down the British and Irish leagues for eligible players in their budget bracket.

The other major issue is a simple supply and demand issue. If you reduce supply and increase demand, the price almost always goes up.

The only upside that I can see is that young Scottish players will have more opportunity to play first team football. That's a positive but we know from experience that it's a rocky road.

Anyway, football is the least of our Brexit worries. Frankly, I'm more concerned about fresh fruit and vegetables.

[Alan62]

The criteria for a player to meet the transfer requirements is graded by country/league club status, so top rated clubs in top leagues get access to high criteria players, medium rated clubs get access to the players with a slightly lower criteria and so on down the way. Man City/Liverpool could only buy players with the highest criteria so Hibs would be operating in a lower rated player pool.

This is explained in more detail in various statements (I read mine on the BBC Sports website).

Can you link to where you saw this?

[JohnMcM]

Am I being stupid? I read that as it telling us it applies to players from EU states. What about the rest of the world? :dunno:

[MWHIBBIES]

Am I being stupid? I read that as it telling us it applies to players from EU states. What about the rest of the world? :dunno:

Nothing changes I don't think. You need permits to sign south american players and cant sign them under 18 right now.

[PatHead]

Ah, no, that's absolutely not how it works.

The richer clubs have access to a much-reduced number of players who meet the criteria. This forces them to shop in the remaining pool of players. They then cream off the top players and once they're gone, they fill their squads out with the best of the rest. Teams with less spending power then have to look down the British and Irish leagues for eligible players in their budget bracket.

The other major issue is a simple supply and demand issue. If you reduce supply and increase demand, the price almost always goes up.

The only upside that I can see is that young Scottish players will have more opportunity to play first team football. That's a positive but we know from experience that it's a rocky road.

Anyway, football is the least of our Brexit worries. Frankly, I'm more concerned about fresh fruit and vegetables.

Personally its medication I'm worried about rather than signing an up and coming foreign talent.

[Alan62]

Personally its medication I'm worried about rather than signing an up and coming foreign talent.

True. If I needed medication of certain types, I would be worried.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ScottB]

Not just players either, there’s a line in the Beeb gossip column that similar rules applying to managers would have prevented United appointing OGS.

Bet they’re gutted haha

But yeah, from the sounds of it, it will likely be much harder for us to go looking for players, or staff in general, in Europe. With that being true for richer English clubs too it will likely drive up costs for UK players, so could well impact the standard of player we can attract for the same money as now.

[CockneyRebel]

Are you saying that we are not allowed to sign Messi because of some stitch up?



It's a conspiracy I tell you.

[JohnMcM]

Nothing changes I don't think. You need permits to sign south american players and cant sign them under 18 right now.

Thanks.

[hibby6270]

Called it :wink:

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?336526-Brexit-and-the-transfer-window&highlight=

In a similar vein to Bernz, I also pointed out in that thread, that it ‘works’ the other way as well for a U.K. player going to EU. Not that there’s much traffic in that direction, so probably not such a big deal for us.

Now the political point (sorry!!). Brexit is going to have a far greater impact on us all over and above whether or not we can sign EU players.:rolleyes:

Also I suspect the Bosman Ruling will no longer apply in U.K. to U.K. club transfers? It was a ruling/law passed by the European Court of Justice and U.K. no longer are bound by that ruling.

Jean-Marc Bosman will be choking on his Stella and Belgian chocolate at the thought.:greengrin