TV ban for bar

[theonlywayisup]

What are your thoughts on this? The bar where fans were filmed celebrating Scotland's Euro 2020 win in apparent breach of Covid rules has been ordered to remove all televisions.

A few seconds of uncontrolled joy for fans during what's been a difficult time period for all has resulted on the banning of TVs that's likely to reduce income for the pub that also will be going through a difficult financial period.

Aberdeen City Council has now ordered the bar to remove all televisions by midday on Sunday. Does this solve the problem then, probably not as the those that caused the problem will just go to another pub?

It feels a very harsh decision for this pub. What else could they have done to prevent it? Surely a warning should have been a better option.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-54930418

There is also the Social Media side of this story. As someone the wrong side of 50, I can't understand why so many people want to video others celebrating and then post it on Social Media. Why don't they just enjoy the moment?

[Gatecrasher]

Given what happened to Aberdeen the last time the pubs were crammed like that I'm surprised they didnt remove their licence. They are lucky to remain open IMO.

[PatHead]

They should shut the pub down if it can't control it's customers and make them follow social distancing rules.

Its pubs like that who ruin it for everyone.

[J-C]

Is this the same bar that breached safety by allowing hundreds of fans in to watch the Aberdeen v Rangers game and kicking off the Covid problems there the last time.

[Juniper Greens]

Is this the same bar that breached safety by allowing hundreds of fans in to watch the Aberdeen v Rangers game and kicking off the Covid problems there the last time.

Pretty much, yes. Although they have basically moved to a pop up bar outside to allow them to sell booze under the current restrictions.

[The dalmeny]

Not massively sympathetic, but it was a bit of a loaded gun. Its as much the fault of the folk there too, I’d have probably done the same.

The warning is to other pubs.

[LeithSqualk]

Their sister bar was at the centre of the 1st Aberdeen outbreak. There was one of the owners filmed in the crowd at a table in the middle of it all. They deserve alit more than taking their tellys away.

[Hermit Crab]

Too lenient. Count themselves lucky to still be able to trade.

[Juniper Greens]

It's clear from the videos that they didn't stick to the two households rule on bookings. Whilst it might have been licensed for 250, a bit of common sense would tell you to limit numbers for that evening.
Finally, why weren't the TVs turned off at 10?

[Moulin Yarns]

The celebrations happened after the 10pm closing time. The pub manager should have switched the television off to encourage customers to leave. That might have caused a riot, but the law is there for a reason. The outside pop-up bars are given 14 day temporary licences and need to be renewed, I'm guessing this one won't be.

[Greenbeard]

Too lenient. Count themselves lucky to still be able to trade.
And all the customers lucky not to have been issued with fixed penalties by PC Plod. "At's ten penaltiies yiv seen. Noo here's in fur yerself loon."

[Juniper Greens]

The celebrations happened after the 10pm closing time. The pub manager should have switched the television off to encourage customers to leave. That might have caused a riot, but the law is there for a reason. The outside pop-up bars are given 14 day temporary licences and need to be renewed, I'm guessing this one won't be.

You would think not, but brown envelopes will be circulating now. The owner is very connected politically

[Moulin Yarns]

You would think not, but brown envelopes will be circulating now. The owner is very connected politically

to which party?

I've looked at the licence board members, I can't see any way they will get a licence.

[Keith_M]

to which party?


The Tories.





(See more details at www.ihatealltoriesnomatterhowirrationalthatis.com)

[SChibs]

It's clear from the videos that they didn't stick to the two households rule on bookings. Whilst it might have been licensed for 250, a bit of common sense would tell you to limit numbers for that evening.
Finally, why weren't the TVs turned off at 10?

I think it's quite obvious why the TV's weren't turned off. I was watching the semi vs Israel in a bar in Edinburgh which was suppose to shut at 10, they remained open for us to finish watching the game but stopped serving drink.

[Pretty Boy]

The owners of that bar are ********s for allowing that especially after all that has gone before involving them. They are almost universally disliked by those in the trade in their area and beyond.

Scenes like that do nothing to further the cause of those in hospitality who have done everything asked of them and put forward a good case to reopen. The book should be thrown at them.

[Juniper Greens]

I think it's quite obvious why the TV's weren't turned off. I was watching the semi vs Israel in a bar in Edinburgh which was suppose to shut at 10, they remained open for us to finish watching the game but stopped serving drink.

The rules state that he pub has to be empty at ten with last orders called a suitable time before that. They are the rules and therefore the barman has nothing to fall back on. I reckon he broke quite a few rules and will need to give quite a hefty donation to Douglas Ross MP to try and remain open

[steve75]

Tier 2 rules state pubs should be empty by 1030, not 10.

Also it's not really the job of bar staff to control people to that degree.

However, clearly more needs to be done to stop that kind of behaviour. Fact is they knew this place had previous, police should have done a walk through mid game, and spot checked a couple tables to see if household rules are being followed. If not, shut the place.

[calumhibee1]

Should be shut down.

Wonder if the hospitality sector will still play dumb and pretend that any sort of increase in cases can’t be blamed on them in any way shape or form?

[lucky]

A lot of people on the moral high ground on this thread. The Bar owners did control customers and put a few out earlier however a few seconds of joy by exuberant fans and people wants bars shut down and fans fined. There was not many on here that wanted every exuberant fans fined in May 2016 when they went on the pitch. A few moments of joy in a terrible year does not mean we should close businesses down and put people on the dole.

[DH1875]

It's clear from the videos that they didn't stick to the two households rule on bookings. Whilst it might have been licensed for 250, a bit of common sense would tell you to limit numbers for that evening.
Finally, why weren't the TVs turned off at 10?

Never mind the TV's. They shouldn't even have been in the bar at 10.


I think it's quite obvious why the TV's weren't turned off. I was watching the semi vs Israel in a bar in Edinburgh which was suppose to shut at 10, they remained open for us to finish watching the game but stopped serving drink.

They broke the rules as well then and should be punished. Most other bars (including my local) seemed to manage to get punters out for 10 that night. Also, last orders should be 9.30 so they should have stopped selling drink before 10 anyways.
If it had been an oldfirm game we'd be all over it but because it's Scotland it's just common sense, I dont think so.

[Just Alf]

A lot of people on the moral high ground on this thread. The Bar owners did control customers and put a few out earlier however a few seconds of joy by exuberant fans and people wants bars shut down and fans fined. There was not many on here that wanted every exuberant fans fined in May 2016 when they went on the pitch. A few moments of joy in a terrible year does not mean we should close businesses down and put people on the dole.It does back up the fact that we can't be trusted to keep socially distanced at games, in pubs (or on trains) after a few beers.


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[Peevemor]

It does back up the fact that we can't be trusted to keep socially distanced at games, in pubs (or on trains) after a few beers.


Sent from my SM-G935F using TapatalkWe're all dicks (myself included).

[Itsnoteasy]

What are your thoughts on this? The bar where fans were filmed celebrating Scotland's Euro 2020 win in apparent breach of Covid rules has been ordered to remove all televisions.

A few seconds of uncontrolled joy for fans during what's been a difficult time period for all has resulted on the banning of TVs that's likely to reduce income for the pub that also will be going through a difficult financial period.

Aberdeen City Council has now ordered the bar to remove all televisions by midday on Sunday. Does this solve the problem then, probably not as the those that caused the problem will just go to another pub?

It feels a very harsh decision for this pub. What else could they have done to prevent it? Surely a warning should have been a better option.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-54930418

There is also the Social Media side of this story. As someone the wrong side of 50, I can't understand why so many people want to video others celebrating and then post it on Social Media. Why don't they just enjoy the moment?

The social media aspect is all about posting it & people commenting on your post, most times its attention seeking. Look at me look at my post please comment. Its the same as people going to a concert or sporting event & recording it on their phone i dinnae get that either.

[JimBHibees]

Given what happened to Aberdeen the last time the pubs were crammed like that I'm surprised they didnt remove their licence. They are lucky to remain open IMO.

Agree absolutely ridiculous

[Greenbeard]

A lot of people on the moral high ground on this thread. The Bar owners did control customers and put a few out earlier however a few seconds of joy by exuberant fans and people wants bars shut down and fans fined. There was not many on here that wanted every exuberant fans fined in May 2016 when they went on the pitch. A few moments of joy in a terrible year does not mean we should close businesses down and put people on the dole.
Had there been a global pandemic killing over 50 thousand folk in the UK in May 2016 with us having been bombarded with warnings about social distancing, then everyone who went on the pitch should have been fined, 114 years or not. Complacency is killing people, as is the liberal attitude adopted by the police.

[hibbysam]

Had there been a global pandemic killing over 50 thousand folk in the UK in May 2016 with us having been bombarded with warnings about social distancing, then everyone who went on the pitch should have been fined, 114 years or not. Complacency is killing people, as is the liberal attitude adopted by the police.

Pandemic or not it was still illegal. This country must be the worst about finding the negatives in absolutely every situation. Ok they got excited and celebrated for a couple of minutes.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The social media aspect is all about posting it & people commenting on your post, most times its attention seeking. Look at me look at my post please comment. Its the same as people going to a concert or sporting event & recording it on their phone i dinnae get that either.


Through social media We’ve created an culture that communicates in ways we never did before in such an en-masse manner. It’s created new “norms” such as this, but the platforms through their setup and algorithms encourage this.

The transitional concepts of “friends”, “like”, to “follow” and what it means to be an “influencer” have all been warped. No wonder kids are a bit messed up equating all these phoney versions of things to concrete things. Not all online “friends” are friends. Not all followers follow. Having “followers” does not mean you a leader. Should popularity be a thing and if not sure “likes” is a way of measuring it.

Most radical thing kids can do is unplug from this matrix.

[matty_f]

It's just irresponsible, I can see why folk would think it was ok and the owners just "take the hit" but it's a hugely selfish thing to do and, at a time when the hospitality trade needs all the help it can get, is two fingers up to every landlord up and down the country who is making huge sacrifices.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Have to be made an example of otherwise it’s the publicans equivalent of driving to Barnard castle.

[Since90+2]

Pandemic or not it was still illegal. This country must be the worst about finding the negatives in absolutely every situation. Ok they got excited and celebrated for a couple of minutes.

As has been pointed out a few times on here it wasn't illegal for fans to just be on the pitch. It was in England at the time but not in Scotland, the report that followed the pitch invasion recommend making it a specific offence to be on the pitch similar to the law in England.

[CockneyRebel]

Pandemic or not it was still illegal. This country must be the worst about finding the negatives in absolutely every situation. Ok they got excited and celebrated for a couple of minutes.


The whole of the UK is in some level of lockdown and people are dying every day. That is the negative in this situation. These morons, helped by those who defend them, will only lead the way to more/longer lockdowns and more deaths. They got excited and celebrated for a couple of minutes yeah, and they have now put how many more people in danger?

FFS man this is a life and death pandemic not a bit of a nuisance.

[hibbysam]

As has been pointed out a few times on here it wasn't illegal for fans to just be on the pitch. It was in England at the time but not in Scotland, the report that followed the pitch invasion recommend making it a specific office to be on the pitch similar to the law in England.

So every person that went into the pitch prior to that cup final never committed an offence and wasn’t subsequently charged with doing so? That’s interesting.

[hibbysam]

The whole of the UK is in some level of lockdown and people are dying every day. That is the negative in this situation. These morons, helped by those who defend them, will only lead the way to more/longer lockdowns and more deaths. They got excited and celebrated for a couple of minutes yeah, and they have now put how many more people in danger?

FFS man this is a life and death pandemic not a bit of a nuisance.

Any proof that people are going to die due to the actions of the people in this pub? I’m not even going to get into the depths of your post, there are risks in everything people do, they had a couple of minutes of celebrations to celebrate one of the biggest moments in our countries recent history, get over it. Glad every single person commenting on this post and on social media have followed absolutely every rule to the letter.

[CropleyWasGod]

So every person that went into the pitch prior to that cup final never committed an offence and wasn’t subsequently charged with doing so? That’s interesting.

Nobody was charged for being on the pitch.

[Just Alf]

We're all dicks (myself included).Yup, been there...

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[Just Alf]

Any proof that people are going to die due to the actions of the people in this pub? I’m not even going to get into the depths of your post, there are risks in everything people do, they had a couple of minutes of celebrations to celebrate one of the biggest moments in our countries recent history, get over it. Glad every single person commenting on this post and on social media have followed absolutely every rule to the letter.We know the virus is much more likely to get passed on with contact, we also know that those folks in the pub will go home, some on public transport, most, if not all will have families. So we 100% know that the chances of the virus, that kills/debilitates has a better chance of getting passed on than if everyone had followed the rules.

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[hibbysam]

Nobody was charged for being on the pitch.

Prior to the cup final, not at the cup final.

[hibbysam]

We know the virus is much more likely to get passed on with contact, we also know that those folks in the pub will go home, some on public transport, most, if not all will have families. So we 100% know that the chances of the virus, that kills/debilitates has a better chance of getting passed on than if everyone had followed the rules.

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We don’t know that any single person in that pub had the virus. There is also no guarantee that even if they did it would be passed on. So no, you cannot tell that for definite.

[Sir David Gray]

Something like this was always going to happen with a Scotland victory. In hindsight there probably should have been a TV blackout in pubs for the game.

[matty_f]

Prior to the cup final, not at the cup final.

I don't think anyone was charged with the specific charge of being on the pitch. Could be wrong, but I don't remember that being what they were charged with.

[CropleyWasGod]

Prior to the cup final, not at the cup final.

Nobody has been charged for being on a pitch. That isn't an offence. People who go on to pitches are usually charged with offences such as breach of the peace.

Back to your general point... do you understand the concept of harm reduction?

[Sir David Gray]

I don't think anyone was charged with the specific charge of being on the pitch. Could be wrong, but I don't remember that being what they were charged with.

Pretty sure they weren't. I know people who went on the pitch (to celebrate not to cause bother) and were never contacted by the police.

[CockneyRebel]

We don’t know that any single person in that pub had the virus. There is also no guarantee that even if they did it would be passed on. So no, you cannot tell that for definite.


The poster did not say they definitely had the virus or that they would definitely pass it on. He said that that is how this virus is transferred. We don't know if any of these loonies had the virus or not. That is the problem mate - we don't know. How does that make it alright?

[Moulin Yarns]

The Tories.





(See more details at www.ihatealltoriesnomatterhowirrationalthatis.com (http://www.ihatealltoriesnomatterhowirrationalthatis.com) )

The licencing board has 1 tory and 3 SNP councillors, an independent, a Labour and a Libdem. I don't think he will get a renewal of his licence :wink:

[Itsnoteasy]

Through social media We’ve created an culture that communicates in ways we never did before in such an en-masse manner. It’s created new “norms” such as this, but the platforms through their setup and algorithms encourage this.

The transitional concepts of “friends”, “like”, to “follow” and what it means to be an “influencer” have all been warped. No wonder kids are a bit messed up equating all these phoney versions of things to concrete things. Not all online “friends” are friends. Not all followers follow. Having “followers” does not mean you a leader. Should popularity be a thing and if not sure “likes” is a way of measuring it.

Most radical thing kids can do is unplug from this matrix.

Spot on.

[Centre Hawf]

Considering the circumstances it would be impossible to stop anyone celebrating together. There will have been plenty of pubs that didn't have a video go viral not being punished so it just seems petty to do this.

I do get however that theres probably an element of making an example of them to scare people into behaving.

Maybe we could start punishing schools if we see kids not in masks or grouping together at lunch etc too in this case.

[hibbysam]

The poster did not say they definitely had the virus or that they would definitely pass it on. He said that that is how this virus is transferred. We don't know if any of these loonies had the virus or not. That is the problem mate - we don't know. How does that make it alright?

‘These morons, helped by those who defend them, will only lead the way to more/longer lockdowns and more deaths. They got excited and celebrated for a couple of minutes yeah, and they have now put how many more people in danger?’

If no one had the virus then no one is more at risk and no one will die from it. Pretty simple stuff. It’s a moment of celebration, guarantee it happened up and down the country with no videos to show. Also guarantee that every single person has not followed the advice to the letter, and has at some point done something they shouldn’t have, whether that be visiting others, entering a shop which would lead to too many inside, not keeping the relevant distance in shops etc.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Considering the circumstances it would be impossible to stop anyone celebrating together. There will have been plenty of pubs that didn't have a video go viral not being punished so it just seems petty to do this.

I do get however that theres probably an element of making an example of them to scare people into behaving.

Maybe we could start punishing schools if we see kids not in masks or grouping together at lunch etc too in this case.

Correct - they’re just the ones getting publicity. assuming that the 2 household was adhered to and that they were not in any other breaches of rules (remember they are tier 2) then if I were the owner I’d be going down the route of you cannot legislate for such exuberance (although I I were the owner I’d probably not want to be taped in the thick of it myself!)

[Pretty Boy]

People who break from the norm stand out. People who don't wear masks are easy to notice because they are a minority, ditto those who don't social distance or those who are having parties.

No industry is under more scrutiny than hospitality. The narrative has been set that pubs and restaurants are dangerous and people are largely choosing to stay away, hospitality businesses are losing money almost every day that they open and many are now taking the difficult decision to close indefinitely. The vast, vast majority have done and continue to do everything that is asked of them, grudgingly or otherwise. For whatever reason the owners of Soul, or whatever guise the venue in the video was operating under, have chosen to go down a different path and have flouted rules and restrictions at every turn. Take a quick glance at the social media pages of a few other businesses in the area to see what they think of them. Hospitality is an easy target; closing pubs will never trigger the same reaction that closing schools would regardless of the impact on employment, community and so on. Fairly or otherwise every business carries that responsibility and knowing you are first in line for tighter restrictions at every turn means you need to take it seriously. If 100 pubs showed the game, 99 complied and 1 didn't which one makes the news? The minority of course which is why it beggars belief this was allowed to happen.

Blame social media, blame grasses or blame the restrictions but ultimately the blame lies with owners of a bar who have proven themselves to be habitual rule breakers. If people lose their jobs or their business goes under then the blame lies solely at the door of those owners.

[hibbysam]

Nobody has been charged for being on a pitch. That isn't an offence. People who go on to pitches are usually charged with offences such as breach of the peace.

Back to your general point... do you understand the concept of harm reduction?

Which is exactly what I said. You don’t run onto a pitch and get away with it, it’s clearly covered by the breach of the peace angle. Breaking the law is breaking the law whether that was in 2016 or 2020.

Not sure where your second point is going, it was a moment of celebration that people got carried away, the pub can’t control that, very simple. We all knew that situation may arise when having the pubs open. I was jumping about celebrating in the house on my own, if the pubs here were open then I’d have been jumping about in the pub, natural reaction. If they didn’t want that to happen then the politicians could have closed the pubs!

[DH1875]

Why is it most other pubs that were open seemed to manage ok. I'm not saying this is the only pub where fans didn't stick to the rules but in the age of the mobile phone I'm surprised there aren't loads of videos floating about of these pubs. Or maybe it didn't happen and they managed it just like most pubs managed it for the Isreal game.

[hibbysam]

Why is it most other pubs that were open seemed to manage ok. I'm not saying this is the only pub where fans didn't stick to the rules but in the age of the mobile phone I'm surprised there aren't loads of videos floating about of these pubs. Or maybe it didn't happen and they managed it just like most pubs managed it for the Isreal game.

The Israel game all pubs had to close by 10, ie half way through extra time). Tier 2 pubs now have to close by half 10 so could show the penalties. There’s absolutely no chance if pubs were open elsewhere that every single person sat in their seat when Marshall saved the penalty and never celebrated. Not a chance. There is only 10 council areas where pubs can be open beyond 6pm and a fair number of those are in the far reaches of Scotland where pubs barely exist.

[CropleyWasGod]

Which is exactly what I said. You don’t run onto a pitch and get away with it, it’s clearly covered by the breach of the peace angle. Breaking the law is breaking the law whether that was in 2016 or 2020.

Not sure where your second point is going, it was a moment of celebration that people got carried away, the pub can’t control that, very simple. We all knew that situation may arise when having the pubs open. I was jumping about celebrating in the house on my own, if the pubs here were open then I’d have been jumping about in the pub, natural reaction. If they didn’t want that to happen then the politicians could have closed the pubs!

That's just not true.

[CockneyRebel]

‘These morons, helped by those who defend them, will only lead the way to more/longer lockdowns and more deaths. They got excited and celebrated for a couple of minutes yeah, and they have now put how many more people in danger?’

If no one had the virus then no one is more at risk and no one will die from it. Pretty simple stuff. It’s a moment of celebration, guarantee it happened up and down the country with no videos to show. Also guarantee that every single person has not followed the advice to the letter, and has at some point done something they shouldn’t have, whether that be visiting others, entering a shop which would lead to too many inside, not keeping the relevant distance in shops etc.


If some/one of them did have the virus then others are at risk. Nobody knows if any of them were carriers or not but it doesn't lower the risk or make everything alright does it? Pretty simple stuff really.

Other folk not doing everything correctly should not be an excuse (two wrongs etc.). I/we face a risk of dying - is it right for others to make that risk bigger?

I fear you are not for persuasion so I can only hope you don't live near me.

[hibbysam]

If some/one of them did have the virus then others are at risk. Nobody knows if any of them were carriers or not but it doesn't lower the risk or make everything alright does it? Pretty simple stuff really.

Other folk not doing everything correctly should not be an excuse (two wrongs etc.). I/we face a risk of dying - is it right for others to make that risk bigger?

I fear you are not for persuasion so I can only hope you don't live near me.

You can’t know that one did though. What do I need persuaded about? That it was a natural reaction to celebrate the goal and that nothing the pub done could have prevented that? It wouldn’t matter if I stayed near you anyway, you clearly follow all the rules to the letter regardless of the situation and wouldn’t be near me.

[Moulin Yarns]

The Israel game all pubs had to close by 10, ie half way through extra time). Tier 2 pubs now have to close by half 10 so could show the penalties. There’s absolutely no chance if pubs were open elsewhere that every single person sat in their seat when Marshall saved the penalty and never celebrated. Not a chance. There is only 10 council areas where pubs can be open beyond 6pm and a fair number of those are in the far reaches of Scotland where pubs barely exist.

Being a pedant, but here is the actual guidance for tier 2 hospitality.


Restaurants, cafes, pubs and bars can open indoors for the consumption of food and non alcoholic drinks. Alcoholic drinks can only be served with the purchase of a main meal. Last entry is 19:00 and all venues must be closed and all customers off the premises by 20:00.

Restaurants, cafes, pubs and bars can open outdoors for the consumption of food and alcoholic drinks. Last entry is 21:30 and all venues must be closed and all customers off the premises by 22:30.



Are you saying everyone had left the premises by 10:30 after the penalties?? The penalty save is timed at 22:22.

[hibbysam]

Being a pedant, but here is the actual guidance for tier 2 hospitality.



Are you saying everyone had left the premises by 10:30 after the penalties??

I know what the guidance states. I have no idea, my point was that the Israel game and this game is non comparable as the pubs were all shut by full time of that game, unless someone was celebrating 0-0 after 90 minutes. This game; the main action and celebration point happened when the pubs were legally open. Too many in this thread keep running with the 10pm time.

[Moulin Yarns]

I know what the guidance states. I have no idea, my point was that the Israel game and this game is non comparable as the pubs were all shut by full time of that game, unless someone was celebrating 0-0 after 90 minutes. This game; the main action and celebration point happened when the pubs were legally open. Too many in this thread keep running with the 10pm time.

there were images of crowds outside bars watching the end of the israel game through the windows, no social distance in evidence.

[hibbysam]

there were images of crowds outside bars watching the end of the israel game through the windows, no social distance in evidence.

Outside bars. That’s the police and councils responsibility not the pubs.

If the pub followed the correct protocols on Thursday with regards table numbers and distance between tables, then there can be no issues with them if folk decide to jump up and celebrate.

[CropleyWasGod]

Outside bars. That’s the police and councils responsibility not the pubs.

If the pub followed the correct protocols on Thursday with regards table numbers and distance between tables, then there can be no issues with them if folk decide to jump up and celebrate.

Have to disagree. There was no need for the TV's to be kept on. Doing so encouraged people to congregate outside which, in the circumstances, was irresponsible. And they filmed it fgs.

[Moulin Yarns]

Have to disagree. There was no need for the TV's to be kept on. Doing so encouraged people to congregate outside which, in the circumstances, was irresponsible. And they filmed it fgs.

Absolutely. I also have to question what constitutes an outdoor area in these situations. The images in the bar in Aberdeen are in a marquee. By definition an enclosed space with roof and walls made of fabric. I think these bars are really pushing the limits of creditability. My local, which is closed in tier 3, has parasols over picnic tables with a few chimineas dotted about for heat.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Absolutely. I also have to question what constitutes an outdoor area in these situations. The images in the bar in Aberdeen are in a marquee. By definition an enclosed space with roof and walls made of fabric. I think these bars are really pushing the limits of creditability. My local, which is closed in tier 3, has parasols over picnic tables with a few chimineas dotted about for heat.

source: The Scotsman

What are the level two rules?

Under level two restrictions no in-home socialising will be permitted, while meetings in public and outdoor settings will be restricted to groups of six from no more than two households.

In level two areas the sale of alcohol is permitted in outdoor areas, and indoor areas so long as it is sold with a main meal.

So looks from above since in level 2 they were working within the above guidance.

[Moulin Yarns]

source: The Scotsman

What are the level two rules?

Under level two restrictions no in-home socialising will be permitted, while meetings in public and outdoor settings will be restricted to groups of six from no more than two households.

In level two areas the sale of alcohol is permitted in outdoor areas, and indoor areas so long as it is sold with a main meal.

So looks from above since in level 2 they were working within the above guidance.

Only if they had a meal, as, in my opinion they were inside. I took my information from the Scottish Government website.

[McD]

You can’t know that one did though. What do I need persuaded about? That it was a natural reaction to celebrate the goal and that nothing the pub done could have prevented that? It wouldn’t matter if I stayed near you anyway, you clearly follow all the rules to the letter regardless of the situation and wouldn’t be near me.


you can’t know that one (or more) didn’t though. And that’s the whole point, it’s about reducing the chances of infection. When someone goes into a supermarket, they don’t know if anyone in there is infected, so they follow the rules to minimise the chance of infection

[lyonhibs]

Over here, where the cantonal structure of the government makes a 2nd nationwide mandated lockdown *highly* unlikely, my local boozer (which has to shut at 11) stayed open with blinds drawn etc so that the 3 Scots in attendance could watch the penalties.

A gesture that won't be getting forgotten for a long time I can assure you!

[Moulin Yarns]

Over here, where the cantonal structure of the government makes a 2nd nationwide mandated lockdown *highly* unlikely, my local boozer (which has to shut at 11) stayed open with blinds drawn etc so that the 3 Scots in attendance could watch the penalties.

A gesture that won't be getting forgotten for a long time I can assure you!

So long as you were socially distanced 😉

By that I mean remote.

[hibbysam]

you can’t know that one (or more) didn’t though. And that’s the whole point, it’s about reducing the chances of infection. When someone goes into a supermarket, they don’t know if anyone in there is infected, so they follow the rules to minimise the chance of infection

Do they though? Plenty supermarkets don’t follow the rules, however that isn’t plastered all over social media. Like I said, the pub can do very little when something like Thursday happens. I’ve seriously no issue with it as long as it was just that celebration at full time, which I’d imagine it was as everyone would have been bombed out directly after.

[Hibs Class]

Over here, where the cantonal structure of the government makes a 2nd nationwide mandated lockdown *highly* unlikely, my local boozer (which has to shut at 11) stayed open with blinds drawn etc so that the 3 Scots in attendance could watch the penalties.

A gesture that won't be getting forgotten for a long time I can assure you!

:top marks

[Moulin Yarns]

Do they though? Plenty supermarkets don’t follow the rules, however that isn’t plastered all over social media. Like I said, the pub can do very little when something like Thursday happens. I’ve seriously no issue with it as long as it was just that celebration at full time, which I’d imagine it was as everyone would have been bombed out directly after.

Get everyone out and door shut in 8 minutes. Aye right.

[Greenbeard]

Do they though? Plenty supermarkets don’t follow the rules, however that isn’t plastered all over social media. Like I said, the pub can do very little when something like Thursday happens. I’ve seriously no issue with it as long as it was just that celebration at full time, which I’d imagine it was as everyone would have been bombed out directly after.
Dog, bone, chew.
It's this "ach it disnae matter" attitude like your's which is preventing us getting covid back under control and is likely going to mean some parts of the country going to level 4 next week. Complacency is bad enough. Outright non-compliance needs massively more fixed penalties being imposed.

[Peevemor]

Dog, bone, chew.
It's this "ach it disnae matter" attitude like your's which is preventing us getting covid back under control and is likely going to mean some parts of the country going to level 4 next week. Complacency is bad enough. Outright non-compliance needs massively more fixed penalties being imposed.Exactly. We all have to accept our responsibilities. Just because the manager of a local supermarket or pub lets people break the rules, it doesn't mean it's OK to do it.

People have to grow up a bit.

[hibbysam]

Dog, bone, chew.
It's this "ach it disnae matter" attitude like your's which is preventing us getting covid back under control and is likely going to mean some parts of the country going to level 4 next week. Complacency is bad enough. Outright non-compliance needs massively more fixed penalties being imposed.

We had Covid under control. Guarantee your one of the ones that swallow the ‘it’s the peoples fault we’re back in lockdown’ *****. We all done as we were told and the government made a **** of it. But that’s going well off track. The point is, the pub can’t control what happened unless they turned the TV’s off. The only way they should get in bother is if the doors were open after the allotted time, or they weren’t following 6/2 table rules. Unless there is proof to show this then the old ‘shut them down’ brigade would be best served coming off their high horse.

[hibbysam]

Exactly. We all have to accept our responsibilities. Just because the manager of a local supermarket or pub lets people break the rules, it doesn't mean it's OK to do it.

People have to grow up a bit.

Exactly, so it was the people that never followed the rules, not the pub. Glad we’ve cleared that up.

[Peevemor]

Exactly, so it was the people that never followed the rules, not the pub. Glad we’ve cleared that up.Having a license to sell alcohol is a privilege accorded by the local authority. It's up to licensees to continually show that they merit the trust placed in them.

Everyone has their part to play.

[hibbysam]

Having a license to sell alcohol is a privilege accorded by the local authority. It's up to licensees to continually show that they merit the trust placed in them.

Everyone has their part to play.

You cannot, and I really don’t care what anyone says on this, put anything in place to stop people celebrating like that. Unless you hire a bouncer for every attendee and stand them directly behind them. You can warn them they’d get thrown out, but by that time they are getting chucked out anyway.

What would you suggest the pub could have done apart from not show the game?

[Peevemor]

You cannot, and I really don’t care what anyone says on this, put anything in place to stop people celebrating like that. Unless you hire a bouncer for every attendee and stand them directly behind them. You can warn them they’d get thrown out, but by that time they are getting chucked out anyway.

What would you suggest the pub could have done apart from not show the game?I have no idea how much blame they have, if any. I'm just saying that more effort is needed, from everyone.

[hibbysam]

I have no idea how much blame they have, if any. I'm just saying that more effort is needed, from everyone.

That’s what I mean though. In regards to the celebrations, folk are very quick to shout about shutting them down etc, but there’s nothing they could do in that scenario. Those punters were jumping up whether they liked it or not. As long as the other steps were followed in regards to seating etc then they should be absolved of any blame.

[PatHead]

You cannot, and I really don’t care what anyone says on this, put anything in place to stop people celebrating like that. Unless you hire a bouncer for every attendee and stand them directly behind them. You can warn them they’d get thrown out, but by that time they are getting chucked out anyway.

What would you suggest the pub could have done apart from not show the game?

They could have switched the TV's off and encouraged everyone to leave at 10.15

[CockneyRebel]

[QUOTE=hibbysam;6355309]You can’t know that one did though. What do I need persuaded about? That it was a natural reaction to celebrate the goal and that nothing the pub done could have prevented that? It wouldn’t matter if I stayed near you anyway, you clearly follow all the rules to the letter regardless of the situation and wouldn’t be near me.[/QUOTE

I already said that we don't know if any of these folk were infected or not - that's my point, because if you don't know either way then you have to err on the side of safety. the restrictions have to be respected to safeguard everyone. It is every individuals responsibility, and in their own best interest, to do all they are asked to do to help stop the spread of this disease. That ain't rocket science, it's common sense. You appear to think that these incidents are unavoidable but if they continue the pubs will closed so then the whole community suffers because a small number of folk can't control themselves in a pub/in a crowd.

I don't care to go round and round again and again so if I can't persuade you from thinking that this misbehaviour is nowt to worry about then there really isn't much point.

Everyone - stay safe.

[hibbysam]

They could have switched the TV's off and encouraged everyone to leave at 10.15

Which would’ve caused an even bigger riot 😂 they also didn’t have to as per their regulations. So what, we shut pubs down for following regulations but not taking steps that would cause absolute uproar, just in case scotland happened to win on penalties?

[CockneyRebel]

Exactly. We all have to accept our responsibilities. Just because the manager of a local supermarket or pub lets people break the rules, it doesn't mean it's OK to do it.

People have to grow up a bit.


:top marks

[hibbysam]

[QUOTE=hibbysam;6355309]You can’t know that one did though. What do I need persuaded about? That it was a natural reaction to celebrate the goal and that nothing the pub done could have prevented that? It wouldn’t matter if I stayed near you anyway, you clearly follow all the rules to the letter regardless of the situation and wouldn’t be near me.[/QUOTE

I already said that we don't know if any of these folk were infected or not - that's my point, because if you don't know either way then you have to err on the side of safety. the restrictions have to be respected to safeguard everyone. It is every individuals responsibility, and in their own best interest, to do all they are asked to do to help stop the spread of this disease. That ain't rocket science, it's common sense. You appear to think that these incidents are unavoidable but if they continue the pubs will closed so then the whole community suffers because a small number of folk can't control themselves in a pub/in a crowd.

I don't care to go round and round again and again so if I can't persuade you from thinking that this misbehaviour is nowt to worry about then there really isn't much point.

Everyone - stay safe.

People should, absolutely, however this was a massive moment of jubilation. People lose their heads in moments like this and it’s hardly surprising. If you think everyone could and should have stayed calm, sat in their seats and not cheered when the penalty was saved then fair play. The reality to that is totally different.

[Barney McGrew]

It feels a very harsh decision for this pub. What else could they have done to prevent it? Surely a warning should have been a better option.

It’s absolutely not. That bar has plenty of previous, and as others have pointed out it was heavily involved in the events that led to Aberdeen’s last full lockdown.

What could they have done? Exactly what every other pub is required to do and make sure punters follow the rules.

It’s a massive kick in the teeth for every other pub that is doing just that. If the owner wasn’t so well connected up there, they’d have had their license ripped up.

[Since90+2]

It’s absolutely not. That bar has plenty of previous, and as others have pointed out it was heavily involved in the events that led to Aberdeen’s last full lockdown.

What could they have done? Exactly what every other pub is required to do and make sure punters follow the rules.

It’s a massive kick in the teeth for every other pub that is doing just that. If the owner wasn’t so well connected up there, they’d have had their license ripped up.

How does a bar in that circumstance make sure punters follow the rules? Genuinely interested to know what you think they could have done.

[CropleyWasGod]

How does a bar in that circumstance make sure punters follow the rules? Genuinely interested to know what you think they could have done.

A smart and responsible manager or owner might have foreseen the possibilities, and started to move people out after the 90 minutes were done. That would have had the double effect of protecting their staff and punters, as well as protecting their licence. Instead, their licence is now jeopardised for the sake of another half-hour of takings.

[Northernhibee]

A smart and responsible manager or owner might have foreseen the possibilities, and started to move people out after the 90 minutes were done. That would have had the double effect of protecting their staff and punters, as well as protecting their licence. Instead, their licence is now jeopardised for the sake of another half-hour of takings.

There are also a whole load of independent bar owners in the city who will be badly affected if the actions in that bar lead to an escalation in measures on licensed premises. If it was the same group that led to that twice then I think they have fair reason to be more than peeved about it.

I hate to say it as it was a brilliant moment and I want bars to make their way through this horrendous scenario but if controlling punters during the football isn't possible, then just don't show the football. This isn't something where the potential consequences for rules being broken are minor, if COVID spreads as a result from that then deaths are quite possible from it.

Each and every one of us is responsible for our actions, but that doesn't mean that the business are free from scrutiny, especially when a sister bar was caught out earlier in the year.

[Since90+2]

A smart and responsible manager or owner might have foreseen the possibilities, and started to move people out after the 90 minutes were done. That would have had the double effect of protecting their staff and punters, as well as protecting their licence. Instead, their licence is now jeopardised for the sake of another half-hour of takings.

Moving people out the bar as the game goes to extra time? People who have likely been drinking for hours beforehand and and you are now telling them to leave a bar, people who have probably not done anything to warrant being asked to leave. Then take into consideration this is the biggest Scotland match since 1998.

I'm not sure that does anything to protect staff. Quite the opposite infact.

It sounds nice and easy when typed out on a football forum,, it's not quite as easy when you are having to deal with about a 100 guys who have consumed lots of alcohol.

[hibbysam]

Moving people out the bar as the game goes to extra time? People who have likely been drinking for hours before hand and and you are now telling them to leave a bar, people who have probably not done anything to warrant being asked to leave. Then take into consideration this is the biggest Scotland match since 1998.

I'm not sure that does anything to protect staff. Quite the opposite infact.

Can’t believe anyone would think chucking folk out early, slap bang in the middle of the game would have any other effect than to cause mass trouble. Imagine how bad the press would be if the manager tried to empty the pub and a large scale disorder kicked in, they’d be called irresponsible for that alone.

[Greenbeard]

Moving people out the bar as the game goes to extra time? People who have likely been drinking for hours before hand and and you are now telling them to leave a bar, people who have probably not done anything to warrant being asked to leave. Then take into consideration this is the biggest Scotland match since 1998.

I'm not sure that does anything to protect staff. Quite the opposite infact.

It sounds nice and easy when typed out on a football forum,, it's not quite as easy when you are having to deal with about a 100 guys who have consumed lots of alcohol.
Extra time and pens were predictable eventualities which should have been planned for by the bar, with it being made clear to customers what would happen if it was level after 90 to ensure no breach, whether by the bar itself or the customers. Instead, the bar chose to ignore that possible outcome. In doing so they clearly bear a significant degree of fault in allowing what happened to happen.

[Pretty Boy]

Can’t believe anyone would think chucking folk out early, slap bang in the middle of the game would have any other effect than to cause mass trouble. Imagine how bad the press would be if the manager tried to empty the pub and a large scale disorder kicked in, they’d be called irresponsible for that alone.

There is really 3 options.

1. We accept alcohol and good behaviour don't mix and close pubs entirely or ban them from showing any live sport.

2. Owners take some responsibility. The vast majority have and did so again on Thursday. This bar has repeatedly chosen not to do so.

3. Individuals take some responsibility and realise that, for the moment, jumping about on top of each other and getting absolutely leathered for the football or whatever is not on.

I'd rather not see option 1 because working in a job intrinsically linked to the hospitality industry I'd be out of a job. I've also worked in the trade for several years, including at management level, so I have some idea what I'm talking about. That leaves options 2 and 3 and sadly that seems beyond a minority. That gives us all a problem.

[Barney McGrew]

How does a bar in that circumstance make sure punters follow the rules? Genuinely interested to know what you think they could have done.

They don’t allow themselves to be in that position in the first place. How many of those tables of young lads do you think share a household? That’s a mandatory requirement, yet pretty obviously they’ve turned a blind eye and now it’s come back and bit them big style.

I’m not a killjoy, I’ve worked in the licensed trade for many years so I’m in a pretty good position to be able to have a decent informed view. Believe me when I say things are tough enough just now without small numbers of idiot owners putting profit before safety in the middle of a pandemic, and the knock on is that it will have a much worse effect on the majority of sites that are doing everything they’ve been asked to (and often more). It’s selfish and utterly counterproductive.

[Since90+2]

Extra time and pens were predictable eventualities which should have been planned for by the bar, with it being made clear to customers what would happen if it was level after 90 to ensure no breach, whether by the bar itself or the customers. Instead, the bar chose to ignore that possible outcome. In doing so they clearly bear a significant degree of fault in allowing what happened to happen.

The game could also have been won by a 92nd minute winner (don't we all know that) which would have resulted in the same reaction. Going by your logic people should have been asked to leave the bar at 70 minutes to avoid such a scenario?

[hibbysam]

Extra time and pens were predictable eventualities which should have been planned for by the bar, with it being made clear to customers what would happen if it was level after 90 to ensure no breach, whether by the bar itself or the customers. Instead, the bar chose to ignore that possible outcome. In doing so they clearly bear a significant degree of fault in allowing what happened to happen.

The same outcome would have happened had there been a last minute winner, or Serbia hadn’t scored the equaliser. Chucking folk out would’ve made the situation worse, not better.

[hibbysam]

There is really 3 options.

1. We accept alcohol and good behaviour don't mix and close pubs entirely or ban them from showing any live sport.

2. Owners take some responsibility. The vast majority have and did so again on Thursday. This bar has repeatedly chosen not to do so.

3. Individuals take some responsibility and realise that, for the moment, jumping about on top of each other and getting absolutely leathered for the football or whatever is not on.

I'd rather not see option 1 because working in a job intrinsically linked to the hospitality industry I'd be out of a job. I've also worked in the trade for several years, including at management level, so I have some idea what I'm talking about. That leaves options 2 and 3 and sadly that seems beyond a minority. That gives us all a problem.

What did the other bars do that this one never? I’d suggest absolutely nothing. What responsibility did they not take on Thursday? A lot of accusations with absolutely no substance behind it. Apart from banning under 30’s from the pub, I’m not sure what else could’ve been done.

[CockneyRebel]

[QUOTE=CockneyRebel;6355465]

People should, absolutely, however this was a massive moment of jubilation. People lose their heads in moments like this and it’s hardly surprising. If you think everyone could and should have stayed calm, sat in their seats and not cheered when the penalty was saved then fair play. The reality to that is totally different.


That sentence actually says it all - it could and should have been anticipated and nipped in the bud. I feel massive sympathy for people in the pub/bar trade and what a lockdown means to them but it's either no football in the pubs or no pubs. I would much sooner watch a game in the pub than at home the same as most folk but I just can't see how.

[hibbysam]

[QUOTE=hibbysam;6355470]


That sentence actually says it all - it could and should have been anticipated and nipped in the bud. I feel massive sympathy for people in the pub/bar trade and what a lockdown means to them but it's either no football in the pubs or no pubs. I would much sooner watch a game in the pub than at home the same as most folk but I just can't see how.

But while it is allowed, the pub is well within their rights to show it. Would probably just have pushed people into houses to watch it but again, that’s guesswork.

[CockneyRebel]

They don’t allow themselves to be in that position in the first place. How many of those tables of young lads do you think share a household? That’s a mandatory requirement, yet pretty obviously they’ve turned a blind eye and now it’s come back and bit them big style.

I’m not a killjoy, I’ve worked in the licensed trade for many years so I’m in a pretty good position to be able to have a decent informed view. Believe me when I say things are tough enough just now without small numbers of idiot owners putting profit before safety in the middle of a pandemic, and the knock on is that it will have a much worse effect on the majority of sites that are doing everything they’ve been asked to (and often more). It’s selfish and utterly counterproductive.


:aok:

[Pretty Boy]

What did the other bars do that this one never? I’d suggest absolutely nothing. What responsibility did they not take on Thursday? A lot of accusations with absolutely no substance behind it. Apart from banning under 30’s from the pub, I’m not sure what else could’ve been done.

I think in part it comes down to the perception of a bar. 'Limbs' videos and videos of people going mental in bars go viral on social media all the time. The fact this is the only one doing the round on this occasion tells a story in itself.

I wouldn't behave like that in either of the bars I frequent regularly because I have a level of respect for the people who run them and know they don't take any nonsense. When you see the owner of this bar front and centre acting as cheerleader it tells another story.

This bar has pushed the rules to breaking point already this year, in fact they have just totally ignored them. It's the kind of place I would go if I wanted to disregard the restrictions and enter an anything goes environment. As said above their first mistake was a clear failure to enforce the 2 households rules for groups. That sowed the seeds of the problem.

[PatHead]

Which would’ve caused an even bigger riot 😂 they also didn’t have to as per their regulations. So what, we shut pubs down for following regulations but not taking steps that would cause absolute uproar, just in case scotland happened to win on penalties?

You asked what could have been done. I answered. Don't see what your problem is.

If you are stupid enough to not see that what happened was wrong then you are part of the problem.

It doesn't matter whether we know if anyone there was positive or not. There is a chance that there was someone and that's too much risk. It simply is not fair on everyone who is following the rules or who would be affected.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

[QUOTE=hibbysam;6355470]


That sentence actually says it all - it could and should have been anticipated and nipped in the bud. I feel massive sympathy for people in the pub/bar trade and what a lockdown means to them but it's either no football in the pubs or no pubs. I would much sooner watch a game in the pub than at home the same as most folk but I just can't see how.

i dunno what the answer is. if you remove the TV then would folks not just huddle round an iPad or more discreet phone?

I’ve stayed away from pubs - I went for an afternoon meal to meet a team I’d never seen but was not comfortable with that and the experience confirmed to me the challenges - there was no meaningful social distancing as we were all in a booth.

it seems obvious that of all the riskiest places to head it’s a bar at a time when people can have had a few and get lax.

I was reluctant to just head to the pub once restrictions had initially eased post lockdown to see how things panned out and sure enough spikes. I’m cool with not heading out as I have youngish kids so social life impaired anyway but it’s starting to bite now but I can only imagine what it must be like for folks in their going out prime - nightmare!!!

[660]

A nation of mental boozers doesn’t mix well with lockdown especially when that nation qualifies for a major tournament for the first time in 22 years. Not sure if anything more can be read from this.

[hibbysam]

You asked what could have been done. I answered. Don't see what your problem is.

If you are stupid enough to not see that what happened was wrong then you are part of the problem.

It doesn't matter whether we know if anyone there was positive or not. There is a chance that there was someone and that's too much risk. It simply is not fair on everyone who is following the rules or who would be affected.

And your answer would’ve caused far bigger problems. And then you’d be saying how irresponsible it was of them to turn the tele off. Had Serbia won these scenes wouldn’t have happened, so having the tele on isn’t the issue. Let’s just go back to having a ***** international team and we won’t see these scenes.

I’m not saying the scenes aren’t wrong, I’m saying they are understandable from the punters point of view, and unavoidable from the landlords point of view.

[PatHead]

And your answer would’ve caused far bigger problems. And then you’d be saying how irresponsible it was of them to turn the tele off. Had Serbia won these scenes wouldn’t have happened, so having the tele on isn’t the issue. Let’s just go back to having a ***** international team and we won’t see these scenes.

I’m not saying the scenes aren’t wrong, I’m saying they are understandable from the punters point of view, and unavoidable from the landlords point of view.

Sorry but I wouldn't have been saying how irresponsible it was so don't put words in my mouth.

It could and probably should have been done when the police came in.

It is the publicans responsibility to ensure a safe environment for all the punters. He failed to do so by allowing so many people in. It is therefore his fault.

Anyway I'm bored of your constant defending of the indefensible so let's just leave it at that.

[Moulin Yarns]

We had Covid under control. Guarantee your one of the ones that swallow the ‘it’s the peoples fault we’re back in lockdown’ *****. We all done as we were told and the government made a **** of it. But that’s going well off track. The point is, the pub can’t control what happened unless they turned the TV’s off. The only way they should get in bother is if the doors were open after the allotted time, or they weren’t following 6/2 table rules. Unless there is proof to show this then the old ‘shut them down’ brigade would be best served coming off their high horse.

I'll ask again. Do you believe that the pub staff got everyone out and the door locked in under 8 minutes?

[hibbysam]

Sorry but I wouldn't have been saying how irresponsible it was so don't put words in my mouth.

It could and probably should have been done when the police came in.

It is the publicans responsibility to ensure a safe environment for all the punters. He failed to do so by allowing so many people in. It is therefore his fault.

Anyway I'm bored of your constant defending of the indefensible so let's just leave it at that.

So you’d have been happy for him to put the tele off, putting his staff in danger when it all kicked off, when social distancing went out the window when it all kicked off, the likelihood of it taking a much longer time period to empty the pub, all because there was a chance Scotland may have won on penalties.

I’m glad you’ll give it a rest though. The government allowed pubs to open, I’ve no doubt he never let more in than his licence allowed, I’d expect the punters were truthful about their residences, and everyone would be out the door on time. If any of those three things never happened then we can have a go at the pub, if he/she followed those rules then leaving the tele on is completely within his regulations and you’ve had a stinker.

[hibbysam]

I'll ask again. Do you believe that the pub staff got everyone out and the door locked in under 8 minutes?

I’d like to think so. I mean it wouldn’t take 30 seconds to empty the pub, so 8 minutes is more than doable. Unless you can say that it never happened then it’s not a stick you can use to beat the owner with. It also has zero impact on the scenes that happened if it went a minute or two over.

[Peevemor]

I’d like to think so. I mean it wouldn’t take 30 seconds to empty the pub, so 8 minutes is more than doable. Unless you can say that it never happened then it’s not a stick you can use to beat the owner with. It also has zero impact on the scenes that happened if it went a minute or two over.I think you're kidding yourself on.

[hibbysam]

I think you're kidding yourself on.

Im not one for speculating when there’s no proof involved. That wouldn’t help the situation at all. If the pub never shut on time then they will be dealt with for that.

[DH1875]

How did all the other pubs get on? Surely they weren't the only ine's in the Aberdeen area showing the game.

[hibbysam]

How did all the other pubs get on? Surely they weren't the only ine's in the Aberdeen area showing the game.

There’s at least one in Helensburgh and one in Inverness on social media with fans celebrating in the beer garden. I’d imagine any pub that was open, and had a contingent of under 30’s in, would have had celebration issues at the conclusion of penalties. Just because it’s not on social media, doesn’t mean it never happened.

[DH1875]

Did someone say pitch invasion?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlTju4MlcJ8

No reason, just because :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

And your answer would’ve caused far bigger problems. And then you’d be saying how irresponsible it was of them to turn the tele off. Had Serbia won these scenes wouldn’t have happened, so having the tele on isn’t the issue. Let’s just go back to having a ***** international team and we won’t see these scenes.

I’m not saying the scenes aren’t wrong, I’m saying they are understandable from the punters point of view, and unavoidable from the landlords point of view.

You realise some pubs manage fine without television, music or any other distraction. My local is very popular with locals and tourists alike with no external noises.

[Moulin Yarns]

I’d like to think so. I mean it wouldn’t take 30 seconds to empty the pub, so 8 minutes is more than doable. Unless you can say that it never happened then it’s not a stick you can use to beat the owner with. It also has zero impact on the scenes that happened if it went a minute or two over.

While the punters were going mental with 8 minutes to closing? Not in the real world.

[Just Alf]

Well this thread raced along while I was away.

In simple terms, the pub had a choice, show the football with a drastically reduced number of customers to ensure it wouldn't break any Covid guidelines. OR do what some pubs in Blackpool and Carlisle did for the old firm game and not open at all that day.

Not taking either of these options has put their licence and the wider pub trade at more risk of a harder lockdown, and that's not even mentioning the increased chance of spreading the virus.




Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Juniper Greens]

I've enjoyed reading hibbysam spout absolute nonsense on this thread to be fair. Seems to have a love in with this bar and defend everything it did. Just setting out some of the facts that we know from the videos, which in my opinion demonstrate the mistakes that the pub made:
They did not enforce the 6, 2 rule. Some groups were clearly from more that two household and the bench seating was not appropriately divided
They chose to max out the 250 capacity limit, on a night when they knew the punters were likely to have enjoyed the service and been boisterous. Would have been far more sensible not to operate at capacity.
They chose to continue to show the game at a later time that they should have, knowing that they would not be able to empty the pub in time for the law.
This bar has been set up in place of a different, indoor bar owned by the same man, the very bar which was most heavily criticised during the first Aberdeen outbreak as not adhering to rules. The owner should have been on a "yellow card" as NS would say and should have made all decisions on the cautious side, rather than pushing the boundaries of (or just breaking in some areas) the rules

[DH1875]

Well this thread raced along while I was away.

In simple terms, the pub had a choice, show the football with a drastically reduced number of customers to ensure it wouldn't break any Covid guidelines. OR do what some pubs in Blackpool and Carlisle did for the old firm game and not open at all that day.

Not taking either of these options has put their licence and the wider pub trade at more risk of a harder lockdown, and that's not even mentioning the increased chance of spreading the virus.




Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Like I said earlier, because it was Scotland we are supposed to be ok with it. What if later this year its the rangers v benfica and it goes to penalties to see who qualifies for next round for Europa league. Suppose that'll be alright as well then IF they win.

[1875godsgift]

Like I said earlier, because it was Scotland we are supposed to be ok with it. What if later this year its the rangers v benfica and it goes to penalties to see who qualifies for next round for Europa league. Suppose that'll be alright as well then IF they win.

I really hope the new huns lose.

[basehibby]

I think the obvious way to avoid this problem would have been for the eejit who filmed it to keep his/her mobile phone in his pocket - or not to share the footage on youtube at least.

I'm presuming that whoever it was appreciated the opportunity to watch the game in the pub with a few pals - so it was a pretty brainless way to show that appreciation - sharing the footage on social media and so getting those who had provided that facility into bother.

[hibbysam]

I've enjoyed reading hibbysam spout absolute nonsense on this thread to be fair. Seems to have a love in with this bar and defend everything it did. Just setting out some of the facts that we know from the videos, which in my opinion demonstrate the mistakes that the pub made:
They did not enforce the 6, 2 rule. Some groups were clearly from more that two household and the bench seating was not appropriately divided
They chose to max out the 250 capacity limit, on a night when they knew the punters were likely to have enjoyed the service and been boisterous. Would have been far more sensible not to operate at capacity.
They chose to continue to show the game at a later time that they should have, knowing that they would not be able to empty the pub in time for the law.
This bar has been set up in place of a different, indoor bar owned by the same man, the very bar which was most heavily criticised during the first Aberdeen outbreak as not adhering to rules. The owner should have been on a "yellow card" as NS would say and should have made all decisions on the cautious side, rather than pushing the boundaries of (or just breaking in some areas) the rules

😂😂😂 couldnt care less about the bar to be fair, been on a night out in Aberdeen about twice in my life.

Secondly, your ‘facts’ aren’t facts, they’re guesswork at this moment. You don’t know that the 6/2 rule wasn’t enforced. But if it wasn’t then the bar should be punished, like any should.

What is sensible or not isn’t the law. I’m sure the local licensing board will decide whether their tables worked within the remit of their licence, again, if they didn’t they will be punished.

Your another that seems to think turning the tele off earlier would have solved all issues, completely disregarding the safety of staff, and the fact that if they did so it would’ve been even more dangerous, remembering at that point no one could have known Scotland would win on penalties.

My argument is IF the bar followed their rules (households, time etc) then they can’t be to blame. The blame lies with those celebrating, and I totally understand it, it was a natural reaction. The same as the pub in Helensburgh, and in Inverness, and I’d imagine the many many more not captured on someone’s phone. As far as I know no report has been concluded and no punishments given, until then it’s probably best not to speculate based on your own ‘facts’.

[Since90+2]

😂😂😂 couldnt care less about the bar to be fair, been on a night out in Aberdeen about twice in my life.

Secondly, your ‘facts’ aren’t facts, they’re guesswork at this moment. You don’t know that the 6/2 rule wasn’t enforced. But if it wasn’t then the bar should be punished, like any should.

What is sensible or not isn’t the law. I’m sure the local licensing board will decide whether their tables worked within the remit of their licence, again, if they didn’t they will be punished.

Your another that seems to think turning the tele off earlier would have solved all issues, completely disregarding the safety of staff, and the fact that if they did so it would’ve been even more dangerous, remembering at that point no one could have known Scotland would win on penalties.

My argument is IF the bar followed their rules (households, time etc) then they can’t be to blame. The blame lies with those celebrating, and I totally understand it, it was a natural reaction. The same as the pub in Helensburgh, and in Inverness, and I’d imagine the many many more not captured on someone’s phone. As far as I know no report has been concluded and no punishments given, until then it’s probably best not to speculate based on your own ‘facts’.

A sensible and non hyperbolic post.

[Moulin Yarns]

😂😂😂 couldnt care less about the bar to be fair, been on a night out in Aberdeen about twice in my life.

Secondly, your ‘facts’ aren’t facts, they’re guesswork at this moment. You don’t know that the 6/2 rule wasn’t enforced. But if it wasn’t then the bar should be punished, like any should.

What is sensible or not isn’t the law. I’m sure the local licensing board will decide whether their tables worked within the remit of their licence, again, if they didn’t they will be punished.

Your another that seems to think turning the tele off earlier would have solved all issues, completely disregarding the safety of staff, and the fact that if they did so it would’ve been even more dangerous, remembering at that point no one could have known Scotland would win on penalties.

My argument is IF the bar followed their rules (households, time etc) then they can’t be to blame. The blame lies with those celebrating, and I totally understand it, it was a natural reaction. The same as the pub in Helensburgh, and in Inverness, and I’d imagine the many many more not captured on someone’s phone. As far as I know no report has been concluded and no punishments given, until then it’s probably best not to speculate based on your own ‘facts’.

Firstly, you claim what junipergreen said isn't fact, then you go on to make up your own fact that turning the TV off would have endangered staff.

The only facts that we know is that there was no social distance in the video. The 'outdoor' bar is in fact an enclosed space. The bar owner has previous. Alcohol brings out the irresponsible in people.

Edit. And Sky made the game free to view on several different platforms so that people didn't have to congregate in large numbers to watch, they could, and probably should, have stayed at home to watch.

[hibbysam]

Firstly, you claim what junipergreen said isn't fact, then you go on to make up your own fact that turning the TV off would have endangered staff.

The only facts that we know is that there was no social distance in the video. The 'outdoor' bar is in fact an enclosed space. The bar owner has previous. Alcohol brings out the irresponsible in people.

Your last point answers your first point, thanks. I never stated it as a fact, however alcohol, plus the importance and the time of the game tells me that those weren’t going to just walk out of the pub without any issues had the TV’s been turned off, and doesn’t answer what would have happened had Serbia not scored their equaliser right before you wanted them turned off.

[Moulin Yarns]

Firstly, you claim what junipergreen said isn't fact, then you go on to make up your own fact that turning the TV off would have endangered staff.

The only facts that we know is that there was no social distance in the video. The 'outdoor' bar is in fact an enclosed space. The bar owner has previous. Alcohol brings out the irresponsible in people.

Edit. And Sky made the game free to view on several different platforms so that people didn't have to congregate in large numbers to watch, they could, and probably should, have stayed at home to watch.


Your last point answers your first point, thanks. I never stated it as a fact, however alcohol, plus the importance and the time of the game tells me that those weren’t going to just walk out of the pub without any issues had the TV’s been turned off, and doesn’t answer what would have happened had Serbia not scored their equaliser right before you wanted them turned off.

Eh, yes you did!


😂😂😂 couldnt care less about the bar to be fair, been on a night out in Aberdeen about twice in my life.

Secondly, your ‘facts’ aren’t facts, they’re guesswork at this moment. You don’t know that the 6/2 rule wasn’t enforced. But if it wasn’t then the bar should be punished, like any should.

What is sensible or not isn’t the law. I’m sure the local licensing board will decide whether their tables worked within the remit of their licence, again, if they didn’t they will be punished.

Your another that seems to think turning the tele off earlier would have solved all issues, completely disregarding the safety of staff, and the fact that if they did so it would’ve been even more dangerous, remembering at that point no one could have known Scotland would win on penalties.

My argument is IF the bar followed their rules (households, time etc) then they can’t be to blame. The blame lies with those celebrating, and I totally understand it, it was a natural reaction. The same as the pub in Helensburgh, and in Inverness, and I’d imagine the many many more not captured on someone’s phone. As far as I know no report has been concluded and no punishments given, until then it’s probably best not to speculate based on your own ‘facts’.

And the solution to prevent it happening at all.




Edit. And Sky made the game free to view on several different platforms so that people didn't have to congregate in large numbers to watch, they could, and probably should, have stayed at home to watch.

[Speedy]

Should the Scotland players be punished for their after match celebrations?

Is the rule not that they should be socially distant except when on the pitch?

[CropleyWasGod]

The pub has been told by ACC to remove all Tv's by tomorrow

.https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/6281275/aberdeen-pub-tv-ban-scotland-euro-celebrations/

[PatHead]

No matter how anyone feels about the rights and wrongs of that pub, I suspect that it has put back the likelihood of fans getting into football matches back by some distance.

For anyone who wants to believe it, that will have proved some football fans can't be trusted.

Won't have done any help to anyone who wants drink in stadiums either.

[hibbysam]

Eh, yes you did!



And the solution to prevent it happening at all.

Exactly it would’ve disregarded their safety due to the risk of it kicking off, which having been around drunken people for a long time would’ve been extremely likely.

Your last point reiterates that the punters are to blame by going out. There were no rules stating what time tvs were to be off by other than the doors closed at 10.30.

All of your points back up the idea of irresponsible punters for a couple of minutes rather than irresponsible pub owner.

[CropleyWasGod]

Exactly it would’ve disregarded their safety due to the risk of it kicking off, which having been around drunken people for a long time would’ve been extremely likely.

Your last point reiterates that the punters are to blame by going out. There were no rules stating what time tvs were to be off by other than the doors closed at 10.30.

All of your points back up the idea of irresponsible punters for a couple of minutes rather than irresponsible pub owner.

The two aren't mutually incompatible. However, the pub owner seems to have accepted some blame, according to that news report.

[hibbysam]

The two aren't mutually incompatible. However, the pub owner seems to have accepted some blame, according to that news report.

‘We truly hoped and believed we could provide a safe way for customers to enjoy this crucial match and that we could do that within the existing regulations. We took all steps we could to fully comply with those regulations’

That says more about the regulations than the pub. If the TV’s had been turned off, what time do they get turned off? After full time? The same would’ve happened with a 90th minute goal, or full time in a win. Punters would then have got their phones out and the same scenario would likely have unfolded.

The pub owner can’t tell the future, he looks from the outside like he’s met all regulations and tried his best, exuberance has took over and unfortunately staff and security can’t stop that. If the government never wanted these scenes then they should have closed the pubs for the night, very simple. It wasn’t just one pub, it was numerous pubs all over tier 2 and below that had the same issues.

[CockneyRebel]

Sorry but I wouldn't have been saying how irresponsible it was so don't put words in my mouth.

It could and probably should have been done when the police came in.

It is the publicans responsibility to ensure a safe environment for all the punters. He failed to do so by allowing so many people in. It is therefore his fault.

Anyway I'm bored of your constant defending of the indefensible so let's just leave it at that.



Ditto.

[Moulin Yarns]

Exactly it would’ve disregarded their safety due to the risk of it kicking off, which having been around drunken people for a long time would’ve been extremely likely.

Your last point reiterates that the punters are to blame by going out. There were no rules stating what time tvs were to be off by other than the doors closed at 10.30.

All of your points back up the idea of irresponsible punters for a couple of minutes rather than irresponsible pub owner.

Even though the pub owner, who has other pubs in the city, has previously ignored restrictions by allowing more people into bars than can socially distance? And allowing people to drink in an idoor setting?

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen/2439403/giant-marquee-does-not-classify-as-an-outdoor-venue-aberdeen-bar-bosses-told/

[Moulin Yarns]

‘We truly hoped and believed we could provide a safe way for customers to enjoy this crucial match and that we could do that within the existing regulations. We took all steps we could to fully comply with those regulations’

That says more about the regulations than the pub. If the TV’s had been turned off, what time do they get turned off? After full time? The same would’ve happened with a 90th minute goal, or full time in a win. Punters would then have got their phones out and the same scenario would likely have unfolded.

The pub owner can’t tell the future, he looks from the outside like he’s met all regulations and tried his best, exuberance has took over and unfortunately staff and security can’t stop that. If the government never wanted these scenes then they should have closed the pubs for the night, very simple. It wasn’t just one pub, it was numerous pubs all over tier 2 and below that had the same issues.

You keep going on about the TV being turned off, the solution which Aberdeen Council have belatedly come up with, would have meant none of the scenes that occurred, which the bar owner should have foreseen.

[hibbysam]

You keep going on about the TV being turned off, the solution which Aberdeen Council have belatedly come up with, would have meant none of the scenes that occurred, which the bar owner should have foreseen.

It’s you that keeps going on about that being the solution. The council have told them to remove the TV’s to stop them going on in the first place, at no point did the council tell pubs they couldn’t show the game. Your suggestion was to turn the game off half way through and expect there to be zero problems from that. I’m telling you how daft a suggestion that sounds and how there would be no guarantees that wouldn’t cause bigger problems. The council put the regulations in place, the bars follow them. If they regulations aren’t good enough that’s not the pubs problem.

[Moulin Yarns]

It’s you that keeps going on about that being the solution. The council have told them to remove the TV’s to stop them going on in the first place, at no point did the council tell pubs they couldn’t show the game. Your suggestion was to turn the game off half way through and expect there to be zero problems from that. I’m telling you how daft a suggestion that sounds and how there would be no guarantees that wouldn’t cause bigger problems. The council put the regulations in place, the bars follow them. If they regulations aren’t good enough that’s not the pubs problem.

You must be getting me mixed up with someone else. I'm an advocate of quiet pubs with no Telly, jukebox or other distractions from the enjoyment of a meal and drink with family and friends.

If there had been no television in the first place then this 'discussion' wouldn't be happening. I also said, Sky made it free to view so there was no need for crowds to congregate in bars to watch it.

Let's see your argument against that?

[hibbysam]

You must be getting me mixed up with someone else. I'm an advocate of quiet pubs with no Telly, jukebox or other distractions from the enjoyment of a meal and drink with family and friends.

If there had been no television in the first place then this 'discussion' wouldn't be happening. I also said, Sky made it free to view so there was no need for crowds to congregate in bars to watch it.

Let's see your argument against that?

Apologies, someone before had said that the TV’s should’ve been turned off before extra time, which in my opinion would have caused far greater issue. I agree no TV’s would’ve meant no issues, but that’s a decision for the council to make.

I’ve not got an argument against it other than it was the punters choice to go out and watch the game, instead of in their house on free to air tele. Our Scottish cup tie was on BBC, yet if the pubs were open I’d have been down the pub watching it. That would be my choice though, the pub wouldn’t have forced me to go.

[Moulin Yarns]

Apologies, someone before had said that the TV’s should’ve been turned off before extra time, which in my opinion would have caused far greater issue. I agree no TV’s would’ve meant no issues, but that’s a decision for the council to make.

I’ve not got an argument against it other than it was the punters choice to go out and watch the game, instead of in their house on free to air tele. Our Scottish cup tie was on BBC, yet if the pubs were open I’d have been down the pub watching it. That would be my choice though, the pub wouldn’t have forced me to go.

The pub could have taken the action not to have the telly on and there would be none of the scenes. A decision they decided not to take because it would mean less customers.

[J-C]

The pub could have taken the action not to have the telly on and there would be none of the scenes. A decision they decided not to take because it would mean less customers.


This was the same pub that was chocka block when Aberdeen played Rangers and the game was on the telly and the spike happened, the owners were only interested in making money without a care for rules.

[EI255]

Aberdeen needs to get a grip.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

Aberdeen needs to get a grip.

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There are a number of bars who have followed the rules to the letter and got screwed over the first time, I feel most for them.

[Moulin Yarns]

There are a number of bars who have followed the rules to the letter and got screwed over the first time, I feel most for them.

Lead the boycott of the particular chain of bars that have been the ones causing the problem for others. :aok: