Steve Clarke

[Glory Lurker]

Respect.

[The 90+2]

Legend.

[CmoantheHibs]

What a turnaround. He certainly knows how to build a team and foster a team spirit.

[Alan62]

Fabulous.


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[weecounty hibby]

While I'm on an honesty trip and after admitting my mistake about Lyndon Dykes I have to say I thought Clarke was going to be a dud. Happy to say I was wrong

[CloudSquall]

Not many teams will go to Serbia and perform like that.

[Pretty Boy]

This really shows how a result, or even a single moment, can shape our view of a manager. For 89 minutes he was a hero. A few 'interesting' subs and he threatened to be the villain then a missed penalty and he is a hero again. That shoot out goes the other way and a thread titled 'Steve Clarke' goes in a whole different direction.

FWIW I think he has done a great job. A lot wil be made of our defensive ability but we knocked the ball about well tonight for long spells and controlled the game for much of it. That has been the case in a lot of games recently. We are starting to look like a pretty decent side and another few games down the like next summer, who knows?

[The Harp Awakes]

What a turnaround. He certainly knows how to build a team and foster a team spirit.




Yep, strength of character in abundance, high press, top organisation, team conceding few goals, playing to our strengths, etc.

Rinse and repeat of the way he turned Killie around from being relegation fodder.

Top Manager.

[CmoantheHibs]

While I'm on an honesty trip and after admitting my mistake about Lyndon Dykes I have to say I thought Clarke was going to be a dud. Happy to say I was wrong
I thought similar about Dykes but thought Clarke was the right man for the job. Didn’t expect the turnaround to be so dramatic though.

[Scorrie]

Top quality coach and a top bloke. If Scotland can keep him then it could be a good few years ahead

[Iain G]

This really shows how a result, or even a single moment, can shape our view of a manager. For 89 minutes he was a hero. A few 'interesting' subs and he threatened to be the villain then a missed penalty and he is a hero again. That shoot out goes the other way and a thread titled 'Steve Clarke' goes in a whole different direction.

FWIW I think he has done a great job. A lot wil be made of our defensive ability but we knocked the ball about well tonight for long spells and controlled the game for much of it. That has been the case in a lot of games recently. We are starting to look like a pretty decent side and another few games down the like next summer, who knows?

His subs nearly derailed it tonight and left us toothless with no outball up front with McBurnie and Super Mario up there. Thankfully the team spirit he has fostered pulled them through and that was impressive for Scotland who would normally have fallen at the final hurdle.

[Smartie]

Makes tough calls.

How many would have persisted with McTominay in that position? Kept McGregor in the team? Picked O’Donnell? Worked out how to get Tierney into the team? Given Dykes a chance and then stuck with him? Got something out of the much-maligned McBurnie? Played a Motherwell CH over countless others who play for more prestigious clubs?

Top marks to the man. Really impressive stuff.

[The 90+2]

Top quality coach and a top bloke. If Scotland can keep him then it could be a good few years ahead

It almost makes me want Lennon to not get sacked in failure. The thought of Scotland losing Clarke to Celtic is daunting.

[davy67 +]

He certainly seems to be proving his doubters wrong, of course this could all change after the next couple of fixtures due to the fickle nature of The Scottish media and the fans. But at the moment he definitely seems to be building some momentum and getting the feel good factor within the squad with a bunch of guys who actually want to play for their country

[The 90+2]

He certainly seems to be proving his doubters wrong, of course this could all change after the next couple of fixtures due to the fickle nature of The Scottish media and the fans. But at the moment he definitely seems to be building some momentum and getting the feel good factor within the squad with a bunch of guys who actually want to play for their country

Nah. He’s a hero.

[CmoantheHibs]

It almost makes me want Lennon to not get sacked in failure. The thought of Scotland losing Clarke to Celtic is daunting.
I really don’t think he would leave at the moment. He stated when he got the job that it had been his main ambition to manage Scotland. Now he has the opportunity to lead us into a major tourney for the first time in yonks I don’t think he would leave.

[The Modfather]

It almost makes me want Lennon to not get sacked in failure. The thought of Scotland losing Clarke to Celtic is daunting.

Given Clarke’s outburst about large parts of the west and how he’s glad his children grew up out of the sectarian cauldron I’d be surprised if he managed Celtc.

[Magpie]

Really happy for Clarke, seems like a decent fella.

[The 90+2]

Hope so guys.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Great result and achievement though honestly I'm not sure avios his subs towards the end of the 90 minutes.
Still, he got us there which is what matters.

[Northernhibee]

It's so vital that we keep the SFA away from appointing the washed up has beens like McLeish again because they're the easy option. Steve Clarke had run ins with the SFA as a manager but he's a current top manager who has shown what he can do with more than one club.

We can't go back to the glum days of taking the easy option like Strachan, McLeish, Levein etc. This should be a new era for us.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Stevie Clarke is a dour faced ******* and I love it.

He absolutely is a typically downtrodden Scotsman.

And he's now a legend.

[Vault Boy]

Effective.

[The 90+2]

Stevie Clarke is a dour faced ******* and I love it.

He absolutely is a typically downtrodden Scotsman.

And he's now a legend.

He’s like that guy who was on the telly at Hogmanay for years.

[stoneyburn hibs]

He’s like that guy who was on the telly at Hogmanay for years.

Jackie Bird?

[The 90+2]

Jackie Bird?

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[007]

Where's the thread praising Alex McLeish and the part he played? 😀 After all, he was in charge for 4 of the Nations League matches, Steve Clarke was only in charge for 2. 😛

[0762]

Where's the thread praising Alex McLeish and the part he played? 😀 After all, he was in charge for 4 of the Nations League matches, Steve Clarke was only in charge for 2. 😛

You make a good point. McLeish won the group that led to the playoffs. Valuable contribution finished off by Clarke and Co.

[The 90+2]

You make a good point. McLeish won the group that led to the playoffs. Valuable contribution finished off by Clarke and Co.

You’re joking right? McLeish was a disaster second time around.

[ozhibs]

He’s like that guy who was on the telly at Hogmanay for years.

Rev I AM Jolley

[jakedance]

It’s a pretty amazing turnaround and I’m glad to have been proved wrong by Clarke and quite a few of those players. He’s reminding me of what Michael O’Neill did at Northern Ireland. If he can have us playing like well organised wee countries like Iceland or Northern Ireland we could do some damage at the Euros (two home games!).

[J-C]

He's made us more compact and harder to beat and against these decent teams playing on the counter suites us. My only gripe is the fact he thinks McBurnie is international class and he nearly blew it with his subs last night.

[JimBHibees]

Doing a similar job to what he did at Killie obviously a very good coach. How good were guys like Declan Gallagher absolutely brilliant

[Just_Jimmy]

whilst he's obviously done well to get us there, he was penalties away from having the fans turn on him last night. we were absolutely dominant without taking our chances until his subs turned the game in their favour.

the line is thin between success and failure at that level and I'll let him off since we've undoubtedly blown chances in the past. I said I don't care how we get there as long as we do and he did. fairs fair.

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[Sir David Gray]

whilst he's obviously done well to get us there, he was penalties away from having the fans turn on him last night. we were absolutely dominant without taking our chances until his subs turned the game in their favour.

the line is thin between success and failure at that level and I'll let him off since we've undoubtedly blown chances in the past. I said I don't care how we get there as long as we do and he did. fairs fair.

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Yeah agree with that, he would have been hounded if we had lost last night after those subs.

As it happens we won and he's a hero. That's sport.

[Smartie]

I don’t know.

Players had run themselves into the ground - substitutions were necessary.

He still got us closer to qualification than any previous Zscotland manager for 22 years, even with the sickened at the end. To have been in such a big game was an achievement (credit too to McLeidh for the results he picked up) and the performance last night was very good.

The subs made sense. We were maybe a bit passive when Serbia had the ball, but I thought McBurnie had a few really nice touches - and was then able to take a solid pressure penalty.

As ever, fine margins.

[green day]

whilst he's obviously done well to get us there, he was penalties away from having the fans turn on him last night. we were absolutely dominant without taking our chances until his subs turned the game in their favour.

the line is thin between success and failure at that level and I'll let him off since we've undoubtedly blown chances in the past. I said I don't care how we get there as long as we do and he did. fairs fair.

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Said same on the match thread - wrong subs, going 2 up front with McBurnie and Patterson the wrong call.

Needed to shore up? Fine, bring on another Centre Half.

Clarke needs to learn from that mistake.

Great result though !

[Brightside]

I’d sack him. Some every fortunate results despite him. But if he comes out and says he won’t pick burnie and Ron Jeremy I might change my mind.

[whiskyhibby]

Jackie Bird?

🤣🤣🤣

[Gordy M]

Said same on the match thread - wrong subs, going 2 up front with McBurnie and Patterson the wrong call.

Needed to shore up? Fine, bring on another Centre Half.

Clarke needs to learn from that mistake.

Great result though !

Thing is, he was clearly trying to shore up the game. Bringing on 2 big physical players who can also defend made sense. It didnt pay off in the 90 mins....however big McBurnie stepped up to slot away one of the pens, whose to say Dykes would have? In that respect it definitely worked out.

[Coco Bryce]

Doing a similar job to what he did at Killie obviously a very good coach. How good were guys like Declan Gallagher absolutely brilliant

Laddie has done fantastic since he got out of prison.

[The dalmeny]

I find Clarke hard to warm to but it was an interesting post match interview. Unfortunately if you let too much out social media rips you to bits. Can’t argue with his stats and he seems to be getting the best out these players.

player interviews and dressing room videos show the team have a pretty good spirit.

[The 90+2]

I find Clarke hard to warm to but it was an interesting post match interview. Unfortunately if you let too much out social media rips you to bits. Can’t argue with his stats and he seems to be getting the best out these players.

player interviews and dressing room videos show the team have a pretty good spirit.

Where in dalmeny do you stay mate?

[The dalmeny]

Where in dalmeny do you stay mate?

named after the pub :party:

[Sylar]

I'm still not entirely sold. You absolutely have to tip your cap to him for the run we're on just now, but as he himself admitted last night, we're still very much a work in progress. That includes him I think.

McBurnie is a dud and he needs to stop thinking he'll come good. He doesn't run, doesn't jump, doesn't get into finishing positions and just doesn't look interested. Yet Clarke keeps going with him. His substitutions last night almost threw the game right into Serbia's hands and were it not for a wonder save from Marshall or a narrowly missed header late on, most would have been calling for him out of the door this morning. Thankfully, to quote James McFadden from last night, it ends up being a free lesson, and one he hopefully heeds going forward.

[The Modfather]

I'm still not entirely sold. You absolutely have to tip your cap to him for the run we're on just now, but as he himself admitted last night, we're still very much a work in progress. That includes him I think.

McBurnie is a dud and he needs to stop thinking he'll come good. He doesn't run, doesn't jump, doesn't get into finishing positions and just doesn't look interested. Yet Clarke keeps going with him. His substitutions last night almost threw the game right into Serbia's hands and were it not for a wonder save from Marshall or a narrowly missed header late on, most would have been calling for him out of the door this morning. Thankfully, to quote James McFadden from last night, it ends up being a free lesson, and one he hopefully heeds going forward.

McBurnie is a strange one, he plays a similar role for Shef Utd to what Dykes does for us and is effective for them. He has been largely poor for Scotland though.

On his substitutions, I could see the logic in them and they were designed to see out the game out. I don’t think they had any bearing on conceding from a corner. They were a gamble though as massive downgrades on those they replaced so extra time would have been a struggle. Which is how it turned out, although the goal also completely swung the momentum and psychology out of nowhere.

If we had lost there would have been a lot of anger and disappointment, but in the cold light of day I think most would have given Clarke the benefit of the doubt as it would have been an absolute steal from Serbia and, gutting as it would have been, still more evidence we’re taking big steps in the right direction. I think Scotland are like Hibs, a good first 11 who are more than the sum of their parts, but generally a big drop off after that 11.

[HH81]

Thought he was lucky to get away with the subs but Scotland won and that means he got it right.

[B.H.F.C]

I'm still not entirely sold. You absolutely have to tip your cap to him for the run we're on just now, but as he himself admitted last night, we're still very much a work in progress. That includes him I think.

McBurnie is a dud and he needs to stop thinking he'll come good. He doesn't run, doesn't jump, doesn't get into finishing positions and just doesn't look interested. Yet Clarke keeps going with him. His substitutions last night almost threw the game right into Serbia's hands and were it not for a wonder save from Marshall or a narrowly missed header late on, most would have been calling for him out of the door this morning. Thankfully, to quote James McFadden from last night, it ends up being a free lesson, and one he hopefully heeds going forward.

His subs nearly made a mess of it. But the 85 minutes previously were the best Scotland performance away from home, against a side with some top players, in a very long time.

[Diclonius]

His subs nearly made a mess of it. But the 85 minutes previously were the best Scotland performance away from home, against a side with some top players, in a very long time.

Spot on. I've never seen Scotland play as well as they did last night.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Good article on Clarke on BBC website today. Interesting that Pat Nevin suggested him for the Hibs job after Stubbs left.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54908387

[The Harp Awakes]

McBurnie is a strange one, he plays a similar role for Shef Utd to what Dykes does for us and is effective for them. He has been largely poor for Scotland though.

On his substitutions, I could see the logic in them and they were designed to see out the game out. I don’t think they had any bearing on conceding from a corner. They were a gamble though as massive downgrades on those they replaced so extra time would have been a struggle. Which is how it turned out, although the goal also completely swung the momentum and psychology out of nowhere.

If we had lost there would have been a lot of anger and disappointment, but in the cold light of day I think most would have given Clarke the benefit of the doubt as it would have been an absolute steal from Serbia and, gutting as it would have been, still more evidence we’re taking big steps in the right direction. I think Scotland are like Hibs, a good first 11 who are more than the sum of their parts, but generally a big drop off after that 11.

McBurnie was the polar opposite of Dykes last night in terms of attitude, energy and ability. We would have been far better keeping a totally knackered Dykes on the pitch. The 3 substitutions could have been calamitous.

Taking off our 3 best performers, main goal threats and 3 of our 5 likely penalty takers was a poor decision. However, on the plus side, the mental strength SC has instilled in the squad carried us through.

I felt certain McBurnie was going to miss the penalty but he deserves huge credit for staying strong after such a poor performance on the pitch when he came on.

[Keith_M]

Spot on. I've never seen Scotland play as well as they did last night.


You're obviously very young.

[Oscar T Grouch]

You're obviously very young.

There's a whole generation who haven't seen great Scotland side, I think people of my generation were spoilt watching Scotland growing up. I got to see great players qualify for every finals for all my youth. I was in my 20s before I saw us fail to qualify for a tourney finals.

[Jones28]

There's a whole generation who haven't seen great Scotland side, I think people of my generation were spoilt watching Scotland growing up. I got to see great players qualify for every finals for all my youth. I was in my 20s before I saw us fail to qualify for a tourney finals.

Last time we qualified I was 5, so I think the relative apathy for the international side from folk of my generation is justified.

[Scotty Leither]

Good article on Clarke on BBC website today. Interesting that Pat Nevin suggested him for the Hibs job after Stubbs left.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54908387 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54908387)

Info I got at the time was that we had him lined up and then Petrie quibbled about the financial package and the deal was off.

[Diclonius]

You're obviously very young.

Of course!

[Sergio sledge]

McBurnie is a strange one, he plays a similar role for Shef Utd to what Dykes does for us and is effective for them. He has been largely poor for Scotland though.

On his substitutions, I could see the logic in them and they were designed to see out the game out. I don’t think they had any bearing on conceding from a corner. They were a gamble though as massive downgrades on those they replaced so extra time would have been a struggle. Which is how it turned out, although the goal also completely swung the momentum and psychology out of nowhere.

If we had lost there would have been a lot of anger and disappointment, but in the cold light of day I think most would have given Clarke the benefit of the doubt as it would have been an absolute steal from Serbia and, gutting as it would have been, still more evidence we’re taking big steps in the right direction. I think Scotland are like Hibs, a good first 11 who are more than the sum of their parts, but generally a big drop off after that 11.

Also, to be fair to McBurnie, the service he was getting when he came on was nothing like the service Dykes had been getting earlier in the game. He had to do better with what he got though, he played poorly when he came on, especially compared to the shift Dykes put in.

I think that we were already being forced back before the subs as our midfield and forwards had tired dramatically, so I could see the logic in the subs. I don't think that they were as crucial as some people are making out. Serbia got a massive psychological boost from their goal and Scotland took a knock, but in the second half of extra time I thought we were recovering a bit and starting to force ourselves back into the game.

[CMurdoch]

Ultimately it's hard to argue about the subs when we eventually won the match and the subs scored 3 of our penalties.
I'm a great believer in teams playing as well as the opposition allows them. Today the Serbian players will be getting the hibs.net treatment in Serbia, culture of softness, not trying, not turning up for the national team etc but the truth is Scotland tactically and physically shut Serbia down for 82 minutes. To do that required massive amounts of energy on the part of our players and McGinn, Dykes, and Christie were at the forefront of that. That game plan was orchestrated by Clarke and it was a masterclass. The same guy decided to make the substitutions.

We lost the late goal because McTominay lost his marker and that could have happened even if Clarke hadn't made the subs he did.
Tired players make mistakes and the £54 million Real Madrid signing made space for himself with a well timed push off McTominay and put the header away high in the corner.

It was then a fantastic psychological effort to get through the 30 minutes extra time and the subs were part of that. They then scored their penalties in the shoot out.

We might all have done things different with the subs but we might not have won the game and probably wouldn't have won the match.
Clarke did. Hats of to a master tactician.

[superfurryhibby]

Last time we qualified I was 5, so I think the relative apathy for the international side from folk of my generation is justified.

Totally understandable really.

At the same time, for those of us old enough to remember when we qualified for World Cups regularly, it was a reminder of just how much the country can get behind the side. Have to say, I surprised myself at the level of emotion I felt watching the match.

There’s no superstars in the side, but there are a diverse range of talents. Here’s hoping Clarke can get more performances like last night from them. We were surprisingly fluid and technically proficient in the way we played.

What certain is that every ambitious and talented player who excels will know that Clarke will give them a chance. There are places in that squad up for grabs, here’s hoping we see a few more dark horses (like Dykes and Gallagher) emerge. It’s very refreshing.

[theonlywayisup]

Doing a similar job to what he did at Killie obviously a very good coach. How good were guys like Declan Gallagher absolutely brilliant

He obviously knows how to build a team. He's doing for Scotland what he did at Kilmarnock.

At Killie, he took a poor team that was bottom of the league and turned them into a 3rd place team the following season capable of beating The Rangers and Celtic.

With Scotland, he's not turned us into a team that can beat Belgium, France, England etc yet, but I have greater confidence that he knows how best to maximise our strengths to nullify the opposition.

Total respect for the man!

[PatHead]

Info I got at the time was that we had him lined up and then Petrie quibbled about the financial package and the deal was off.

Not sure about that Scotty. We didn't exactly go for the cheap option in Lennon. More likely after another of the failures.

Back on topic, great job Steve Clarke has done. You can see his mindset in having 2 of the back 3 capable of passing it from the back and comfortable on the ball. The other doing the physical side.

[hibsbollah]

Info I got at the time was that we had him lined up and then Petrie quibbled about the financial package and the deal was off.

:agree: I’ve just listened to Pat say that on the Totally Scottish Football Show. ‘I was very very close to getting him into Hibs’ before he signed for Kilmarnock’.

[matty_f]

Info I got at the time was that we had him lined up and then Petrie quibbled about the financial package and the deal was off.

I am amazed to read this.

[The 90+2]

I thought Clarke was approached about five years before Stubbs?

[matty_f]

I thought Clarke was approached about five years before Stubbs?

The rumours on that one definitely were around Hibs baulking at the financial package.

Not sure how true that was then, either, although it was definitely at a time where we were more fiscally prudent.

[The 90+2]

The rumours on that one definitely were around Hibs baulking at the financial package.

Not sure how true that was then, either, although it was definitely at a time where we were more fiscally prudent.

Yeah, for what I remember mate is the financial package we offered Clarke was what he thought was for himself when was in fact for his whole management team 😁. We went for Calderwood instead. Genius.

[matty_f]

Yeah, for what I remember mate is the financial package we offered Clarke was what he thought was for himself when was in fact for his whole management team 😁. We went for Calderwood instead. Genius.

Calderwood wasn't cheap either, by the way. Mad thing is that he came very, very highly recommended and was backed with decent money by the board (hence why they were reluctant to let him go at the first sign of his nonsense.

[The 90+2]

Calderwood wasn't cheap either, by the way. Mad thing is that he came very, very highly recommended and was backed with decent money by the board (hence why they were reluctant to let him go at the first sign of his nonsense.

Just when I forgot the bag of sweeties interview 😥

[matty_f]

Just when I forgot the bag of sweeties interview 😥

What a prick he was, eh?

[The 90+2]

What a prick he was, eh?

I always thought based on very little he thought he was too good for us. In contrast Pat Fenlon who I thought it was like Christmas Day every day managing us.

[matty_f]

I always thought based on very little he thought he was too good for us. In contrast Pat Fenlon who I thought it was like Christmas Day every day managing us.

I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

[The 90+2]

I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

Totally agree.

[hibsbollah]

I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

By the same token I think Appleton would have been a success for us too. Not taking anything away from JR. Currently doing really well at Lincoln. It’s all about the culture and structure that the club has put in place at Hibs.

[The Modfather]

I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

I’ve always thought Collins was the right man at the wrong time. I can but wonder how he would have got on under Dempsters’ version of Hibs than Petrie’s. That and a better number 2 would have helped with the mistakes Collins did make IMO.

[Andy74]

I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

Too big compared to what though?

That would suggest managers usually do much better here.

You’d have to give him some credit that he took a team that could have gone down and we ended up reasonably comfortable in the end.

After that I think his time is quite misunderstood.

From the next season onwards we spent significant time in the upper positions in the league. Some years ago when bored I looked at our league position after each game to see where we usually spent our time under Fenlon. From that season on we averaged 4th position.

We spent virtually no time in the bottom 6. A few weeks, but badly timed of course that season because we slipped into bottom 6. Two shocking refereeing decisions in the games before the split didn’t help. We did end up winning 4 of the 6 games, beat Hearts and got to another Scottish Cup final.

The start of the next season we had the bad European result - in a game where we ended up with a number of teenagers on the pitch who weren’t good enough or ready enough but obviously a bad result.

League wise we could have been doing much better of course but for a club who had not been doing it for some years we were looking on course enough to be top half when we started to agitate for him to resign.

You also can’t discount two Scottish Cup finals in both his seasons, regardless of the results.

He was an average to good Hibs manager. I don’t think the job was too big for him chat stands up and us largely based on views of the standard of football he’d managed at before rather than what he did here.

[Keith_M]

Of course!


No need to rub it in!


:na na:

[The Modfather]

Too big compared to what though?

That would suggest managers usually do much better here.

You’d have to give him some credit that he took a team that could have gone down and we ended up reasonably comfortable in the end.

After that I think his time is quite misunderstood.

From the next season onwards we spent significant time in the upper positions in the league. Some years ago when bored I looked at our league position after each game to see where we usually spent our time under Fenlon. From that season on we averaged 4th position.

We spent virtually no time in the bottom 6. A few weeks, but badly timed of course that season because we slipped into bottom 6. Two shocking refereeing decisions in the games before the split didn’t help. We did end up winning 4 of the 6 games, beat Hearts and got to another Scottish Cup final.

The start of the next season we had the bad European result - in a game where we ended up with a number of teenagers on the pitch who weren’t good enough or ready enough but obviously a bad result.

League wise we could have been doing much better of course but for a club who had not been doing it for some years we were looking on course enough to be top half when we started to agitate for him to resign.

You also can’t discount two Scottish Cup finals in both his seasons, regardless of the results.

He was an average to good Hibs manager. I don’t think the job was too big for him chat stands up and us largely based on views of the standard of football he’d managed at before rather than what he did here.

I don’t think we improved any in Fenlon’s first season. He arrived in November when we were 10th. We finished 11th, securing our survival in the second last game of the season against Dunfermline. Of course the position we were in was little to do with him, but similarly I don’t think much of an argument can be made that he improved us that season.

As for average position, I wonder what Butchers average position would be. I think we only spent a couple of weeks in 11th. An average position doesn’t really mean anything IMO.

As for Fenlon. Nice guy but a poor manager for us IMO. Although I do have a lot of sympathy for him as we were run appallingly (Butcher saying we used Wikipedia as a big part of our scouting when he arrived always stuck with me and sums up how amateur we were run in that period).

[Scotty Leither]

Calderwood wasn't cheap either, by the way. Mad thing is that he came very, very highly recommended and was backed with decent money by the board (hence why they were reluctant to let him go at the first sign of his nonsense.

What are you basing that on? A reporter from the Newcastle Chronicle told me we got him for precisely nowt as he moved to us about 2 weeks after Chris Hughton was sacked at Newcastle, where Calderwood had been his assistant, so that timeline would stack up.

This was the same Calderwood who asked to be supplied with books about Hibs shortly after he joined because he knew nothing about the club, and who also couldn't wait to get out of Easter Road on a Saturday after the match so he could catch the 6 o'clock flight to London.

He certainly wasn't cheap to sack that's for sure, after Petrie spurned approaches from other clubs, and remember he was photographed chatting to Steve McLaren who was manager of Nottingham Forest at the time, in some shopping centre down south. McLaren wanted him on his coaching staff.

So if dear old Rodney had swallowed his pride, we might have actually got rid of him and got a few bags of sweeties in return, instead of eventually paying him off, so win-win, but that would've meant Petrie admitting his mistake in appointing the joker in the first place, and we couldn't have that, could we?

[Smartie]

I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

I don’t think it was too big in the sense of the size of the club, but he inherited a shambles, had a demanding support to please and had questionable support from Petrie and the board. I think almost any manager would have struggled at that time and he did as well as could reasonably be expected.

His last transfer window was a shocker though. I’d love to know exactly how we ended up with the relegation squad.

[skyhibs]

Legend.

Why do people use this word legend for guys like this... yes he has done well and if he gets us out the group then we can maybe think about that status but defo not yet

[Northernhibee]

I don’t think it was too big in the sense of the size of the club, but he inherited a shambles, had a demanding support to please and had questionable support from Petrie and the board. I think almost any manager would have struggled at that time and he did as well as could reasonably be expected.

His last transfer window was a shocker though. I’d love to know exactly how we ended up with the relegation squad.

The thing is, that wasn't a relegation squad under Fenlon. The football was eye bleeding as we didn't have any pace but Craig scored a fair few, Heffernan and Vine were showing signs of understanding between them and we were mid table when he left. I think the quality of football we played meant that a lot of fans were always going to turn on him after two or three bad games.

I also don't think that on paper Butcher would have been as bad an appointment as he turned out to be, but we could have had the team we have now and he'd have had us relegated.

[Andy74]

I don’t think we improved any in Fenlon’s first season. He arrived in November when we were 10th. We finished 11th, securing our survival in the second last game of the season against Dunfermline. Of course the position we were in was little to do with him, but similarly I don’t think much of an argument can be made that he improved us that season.

As for average position, I wonder what Butchers average position would be. I think we only spent a couple of weeks in 11th. An average position doesn’t really mean anything IMO.

As for Fenlon. Nice guy but a poor manager for us IMO. Although I do have a lot of sympathy for him as we were run appallingly (Butcher saying we used Wikipedia as a big part of our scouting when he arrived always stuck with me and sums up how amateur we were run in that period).

Of course he improved us that first season. The position you quote wasn’t realistic as the teams around us had games in hand. We’d also just been beaten easily at home to Dunfermline. We were only heading one way.

[B.H.F.C]

Of course he improved us that first season. The position you quote wasn’t realistic as the teams around us had games in hand. We’d also just been beaten easily at home to Dunfermline. We were only heading one way.

Under Calderwood we played 14 games and had 13 points. We were pish.

We then played 2 games under Brown and Nicholl and got 1 point. Not any better than Calderwood.

We then played 22 games under Fenlon and got 19 points. Not any better than Calderwood.

Struggle to see the improvement there?

[hibbysam]

The videos between Clarke and ‘Willie’ in Strathcarron hospice have been class. A real people’s manager, he gets it. Anyone who says football is just a game just needs to watch those videos to see how much delight and release football gives to people even in their worst times.

[MWHIBBIES]

The thing is, that wasn't a relegation squad under Fenlon. The football was eye bleeding as we didn't have any pace but Craig scored a fair few, Heffernan and Vine were showing signs of understanding between them and we were mid table when he left. I think the quality of football we played meant that a lot of fans were always going to turn on him after two or three bad games.

I also don't think that on paper Butcher would have been as bad an appointment as he turned out to be, but we could have had the team we have now and he'd have had us relegated.

Agree with this except it was Heffernan and Collins. Vine genuinely never showed a thing.

[Caversham Green]

Just when I forgot the bag of sweeties interview 😥


What a prick he was, eh?

Steve Clarke also did a bag of sweeties thing when he was manager at Reading. Fulham approached him (with Reading's consent) and by all accounts he was about to be appointed when he decided he preferred the bag of sweeties he already had. The rumour from some Fulham fans was that he had tried to alter his terms of employment after the deal was done and Fulham's board were having none of it. The clubs both went out of their way to compliment each other's conduct but neither seemed to say much about Clarke. He was sacked by Reading a few weeks later and it seems few people at the club were sorry to see him go. A slightly strange episode all round.

[greenlex]

Steve Clarke also did a bag of sweeties thing when he was manager at Reading. Fulham approached him (with Reading's consent) and by all accounts he was about to be appointed when he decided he preferred the bag of sweeties he already had. The rumour from some Fulham fans was that he had tried to alter his terms of employment after the deal was done and Fulham's board were having none of it. The clubs both went out of their way to compliment each other's conduct but neither seemed to say much about Clarke. He was sacked by Reading a few weeks later and it seems few people at the club were sorry to see him go. A slightly strange episode all round.
Altering terms of employment at the last minute you say? Sounds familiar.

[WhileTheChief..]

Under Calderwood we played 14 games and had 13 points. We were pish.

We then played 2 games under Brown and Nicholl and got 1 point. Not any better than Calderwood.

We then played 22 games under Fenlon and got 19 points. Not any better than Calderwood.

Struggle to see the improvement there?

2 utterly useless managers. Add butcher and Heckingbottom to the same list.

Fenlon just had better chat and at least seemed to like being here.

[Gloucester Hibs]

2 utterly useless managers. Add butcher and Heckingbottom to the same list.

Fenlon just had better chat and at least seemed to like being here.

Fenton was also fortunate enough to have 2 seasons worth of Leigh Griffiths - a luxury not afforded to the other duds

[Smartie]

Fenton was also fortunate enough to have 2 seasons worth of Leigh Griffiths - a luxury not afforded to the other duds

True, but the Leigh Griffiths who left Hibs was a far superior player to the one who joined.

Fenlon was brilliant for Griffiths, whose outstanding progress was Fenlon’s greatest success. Part of it would have been down to Griffiths himself screwing the nut but he improved loads as a player under Fenlon.

I disagree with the “not a relegation squad under Fenlon” bit btw. The strikers were a problem, but not “the” problem - the problem was creating for them, there was f all in that squad once Harris and Cairney got injured. You could argue that there was f all creativity when they were available. Loads of holding midfielders of varying effectiveness. That was a squad capable of going on the horrible slump run we went on under Butcher - the “lose the first goal, lose the game” sort of run we ended up on whoever was the manager, especially with the threat / promise of little to no transfer activity in January.

I think Fenlon knew that better than anyone, and that was why he walked.

[MWHIBBIES]

Fenton was also fortunate enough to have 2 seasons worth of Leigh Griffiths - a luxury not afforded to the other duds

Eh, Calderwood signed Griffiths, he just got **** all out of him.


Fenlon was miles ahead of Calderwood. Their records speak for themselves.

[matty_f]

What are you basing that on? A reporter from the Newcastle Chronicle told me we got him for precisely nowt as he moved to us about 2 weeks after Chris Hughton was sacked at Newcastle, where Calderwood had been his assistant, so that timeline would stack up.

This was the same Calderwood who asked to be supplied with books about Hibs shortly after he joined because he knew nothing about the club, and who also couldn't wait to get out of Easter Road on a Saturday after the match so he could catch the 6 o'clock flight to London.

He certainly wasn't cheap to sack that's for sure, after Petrie spurned approaches from other clubs, and remember he was photographed chatting to Steve McLaren who was manager of Nottingham Forest at the time, in some shopping centre down south. McLaren wanted him on his coaching staff.

So if dear old Rodney had swallowed his pride, we might have actually got rid of him and got a few bags of sweeties in return, instead of eventually paying him off, so win-win, but that would've meant Petrie admitting his mistake in appointing the joker in the first place, and we couldn't have that, could we?
Why couldn’t we have Petrie admitting a mistake? He made enough of them.

Re Calderwood not being cheap, he was on a very good package to bring him to the club, and the board also backed him with signings.

The decision not to take compensation for him at the point when it was available was based on the club having invested in him and feeling that they wanted some return on that, rather than having to rip it up and start again with a new guy.

At the time, I can understand that line of thinking, with hindsight it’s easy to say it was a bad decision.

[matty_f]

Too big compared to what though?

That would suggest managers usually do much better here.

You’d have to give him some credit that he took a team that could have gone down and we ended up reasonably comfortable in the end.

After that I think his time is quite misunderstood.

From the next season onwards we spent significant time in the upper positions in the league. Some years ago when bored I looked at our league position after each game to see where we usually spent our time under Fenlon. From that season on we averaged 4th position.

We spent virtually no time in the bottom 6. A few weeks, but badly timed of course that season because we slipped into bottom 6. Two shocking refereeing decisions in the games before the split didn’t help. We did end up winning 4 of the 6 games, beat Hearts and got to another Scottish Cup final.

The start of the next season we had the bad European result - in a game where we ended up with a number of teenagers on the pitch who weren’t good enough or ready enough but obviously a bad result.

League wise we could have been doing much better of course but for a club who had not been doing it for some years we were looking on course enough to be top half when we started to agitate for him to resign.

You also can’t discount two Scottish Cup finals in both his seasons, regardless of the results.

He was an average to good Hibs manager. I don’t think the job was too big for him chat stands up and us largely based on views of the standard of football he’d managed at before rather than what he did here.

Too big compared to the job he had come from. I have no real issues with Fenlon, i think he’d have had a much better time of it here if he’d had the same set up/structure supporting him as Jack Ross does now, for example.