Vaccine and the return of Fans to Football

[Billy Whizz]

With the great news we got yesterday, and with the imminent arrival of a vaccine, where does this leave us, with getting back into see our team
From what I can gather, the elderly and vulnerable with get the vaccine 1st, think at my age I’m no 8 on the list, and as it stands I believe, nothing planned for the under 50’s

So what are the chances of getting in, say in Feb, with vaccines and mass testing in Scotland’s cities

Would be something to look forward too!

[eastterrace]

With the great news we got yesterday, and with the imminent arrival of a vaccine, where does this leave us, with getting back into see our team
From what I can gather, the elderly and vulnerable with get the vaccine 1st, think at my age I’m no 8 on the list, and as it stands I believe, nothing planned for the under 50’s

So what are the chances of getting in, say in Feb, with vaccines and mass testing in Scotland’s cities

Would be something to look forward too! yes all sounds promising but the anti vaccine brigade will try and put fear into people with the crap of a micro chip being in the vaccine. I will be taking it as cheesed of with lockdowns and tiers. Ggtth

[neil7908]

I reckon, based on no evidence, that we might get decent crowd's by May but only partial attendances before that. Still feels like we have a long way to go before 'normal'.

[Col2]

It’s very difficult to know. It is really positive news.

I think the vaccine strategy will be fascinating. Based on a two jab, two visit requirement and a vaccine held at -80 degrees, the logistical challenges of rolling it out are massive. Each doctors surgery would need to have the right skills and appropriate equipment (freezer) to make it work. Unless they decide to deploy via say the army, via walk in centers etc?

I am not convinced anyone under 50 who is healthy will get a vaccine in 2021, maybe 2022 or later.

So where does that leave us? Less deaths as older more vulnerable are protected but just as many infections until we reach a point of enough people vaccinated to stop the spread - over 60%?

Does it become a choice/cost thing? Eg family can pay for private, skip the queue and then protect themselves?

And to football, I can only see fans on reasonable numbers eg 7k+ at ER happening once vaccine ramp up well underway and if we are at tier 1 for infection levels. I cant see a situation where we can have full crowds back until we have infection rate down to minimal an vaccines for the majority. That could be well into next season.

What it should do from Q2 next year is open up travel, holidays, more socialising etc. does your new extended bubble become those that have had the vaccine? Or do new 15 min covid home tests become the norm before being let into heavily populated areas?

So for me it feels like Vaccine is a major factor but also will far more testing and easily accessed immediate testing and with additional drugs to help with those that become more unwell.

[kaimendhibs]

Really hope this is a game changer and we can return to as close as normal sooner rather than later. Be good if you got proof that you've had the vaccine in case anti vaxers (not my business to judge), put a spanner in the works

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[Jones28]

I'm confident in the vaccine for no reason other than what I've seen on the news, but I'm also very aware that football will probably be quite low on the list of priorities. I'm not sure if we will even have full crowds back in next year, it depends how quickly the government decide to give the contract to Serco for them to **** it up.

[Pretty Boy]

I still think this season is largely a write off as far as any great numbers getting into games goes.

We may get a few test events with increasing numbers by late April/early May but I think the big return, full house, Sunshine on Leith moment is for next season.

[Col2]

I still think this season is largely a write off as far as any great numbers getting into games goes.

We may get a few test events with increasing numbers by late April/early May but I think the big return, full house, Sunshine on Leith moment is for next season.

I agree. I can see us having 1000 in by end of the season then build up from summer and full house maybe by this time next year. To be honest if that is what we are facing at least it’s light at the end of the tunnel and some hope.

[JeMeSouviens]

It’s very difficult to know. It is really positive news.

I think the vaccine strategy will be fascinating. Based on a two jab, two visit requirement and a vaccine held at -80 degrees, the logistical challenges of rolling it out are massive. Each doctors surgery would need to have the right skills and appropriate equipment (freezer) to make it work. Unless they decide to deploy via say the army, via walk in centers etc?

I am not convinced anyone under 50 who is healthy will get a vaccine in 2021, maybe 2022 or later.

So where does that leave us? Less deaths as older more vulnerable are protected but just as many infections until we reach a point of enough people vaccinated to stop the spread - over 60%?

Does it become a choice/cost thing? Eg family can pay for private, skip the queue and then protect themselves?

And to football, I can only see fans on reasonable numbers eg 7k+ at ER happening once vaccine ramp up well underway and if we are at tier 1 for infection levels. I cant see a situation where we can have full crowds back until we have infection rate down to minimal an vaccines for the majority. That could be well into next season.

What it should do from Q2 next year is open up travel, holidays, more socialising etc. does your new extended bubble become those that have had the vaccine? Or do new 15 min covid home tests become the norm before being let into heavily populated areas?

So for me it feels like Vaccine is a major factor but also will far more testing and easily accessed immediate testing and with additional drugs to help with those that become more unwell.


It's not quite as bad on this point. The vaccine needs stored at -80 but is defrosted before being administered. It's usable for 5 days from defrost with normal refrigeration. So GPs shouldn't need anything other than normal fridges.

Hopefully we'll also have the Oxford/AZ vaccine soon, which doesn't need the deep freeze.

[Oscar T Grouch]

I cannot see anything happening this season. Distributing and administrating billions of vaccine doses will take a good length of time. We will probably see preparations for next season being 'back to normal' as long as the venerable and elderly get it first but it could be further into the season before we get back to a packed Easter Road. Personally I am going to do my best to forget this season even happened as this has really kicked the brown stuff out of my mental health. I never realised how important it was to me to travel to games every week, the camaraderie on the bus, the collective shouldering of bad results and the elation of good results. It has not been the same, the football is not the same, it is soulless without fans there.

[Col2]

It's not quite as bad on this point. The vaccine needs stored at -80 but is defrosted before being administered. It's usable for 5 days from defrost with normal refrigeration. So GPs shouldn't need anything other than normal fridges.

Hopefully we'll also have the Oxford/AZ vaccine soon, which doesn't need the deep freeze.

I didn’t know that. Thanks for clarifying. Agree the Oxford group are hopefully next and others.

[CockneyRebel]

I didn’t know that. Thanks for clarifying. Agree the Oxford group are hopefully next and others.

Does this look like we will have several different vaccinations being administered within the same country over a period of time? It would be quite some time before it's known which one(s) are most effective. Bit of a lucky dip. Glad that they are coming on line soon but, as an old fart who would be offered an early jag, do I stick or twist? Probably take the first on offer and keep my fingers crossed.

[Sir David Gray]

I'd personally write this season off. Hopefully we might start seeing some crowds returning soon after the start of next season.

I think full houses are probably unlikely until well into next season.

[Newry Hibs]

Really hope this is a game changer and we can return to as close as normal sooner rather than later. Be good if you got proof that you've had the vaccine in case anti vaxers (not my business to judge), put a spanner in the works

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Why would you need proof that you had it? If you have it and the 'anti vaxxers' don't, then what's the big deal - you're protected (assuming it works).

Does it stop you from getting COVID or stop you being ill with it? Can you get it still and pass it on - even if you are protected?

[kaimendhibs]

Eh, whats with the aggressive tone? The reason I said about proof is it may persuade the authorities to allow people back in.
Why are you so bothered?

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[JohnMcM]

Really hope this is a game changer and we can return to as close as normal sooner rather than later. Be good if you got proof that you've had the vaccine in case anti vaxers (not my business to judge), put a spanner in the works

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There was a discussion/phone-in this morning on Talk Radio around the topic of "proof". I didn't hear it all so I don't know if the UK was covered. The bit I heard was about travel abroad and the high likelihood that "popular" destinations like Spain, Portugal and France were already muting the necessity for visitors to show proof.

So, your thought about proof is already being considered. Personally it makes sense to me.

[G B Young]

I still think this season is largely a write off as far as any great numbers getting into games goes.

We may get a few test events with increasing numbers by late April/early May but I think the big return, full house, Sunshine on Leith moment is for next season.

Spot on. Rolling out a vaccine on this scale won't be an overnight job and getting fans back into sports stadiums won't be a priority.

We won't be back at ER in anything more than test numbers until next season.

[Newry Hibs]

Eh, whats with the aggressive tone? The reason I said about proof is it may persuade the authorities to allow people back in.
Why are you so bothered?

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Wasn't meant to be an aggressive tone - so apologies that it came across as that.

My first point about proof - why would it be needed at all. If it works and one has it, then there is no need to worry about others not having it.

Second point was just questions about the vaccine - not aimed at you. Should have said 'one' instead of 'you'.

I'm thinking it is all a bit rushed (and a little convenient seeing how the US election is (possibly) over).

[AugustaHibs]

There was a discussion/phone-in this morning on Talk Radio around the topic of "proof". I didn't hear it all so I don't know if the UK was covered. The bit I heard was about travel abroad and the high likelihood that "popular" destinations like Spain, Portugal and France were already muting the necessity for visitors to show proof.

So, your thought about proof is already being considered. Personally it makes sense to me.

Can’t say I agree with that. So the older folk that we’ve all been trying to protect will get the vaccine first so they can swan off on holiday whilst the rest of us have to sit and wait months/ potentially years?

[kaimendhibs]

There was a discussion/phone-in this morning on Talk Radio around the topic of "proof". I didn't hear it all so I don't know if the UK was covered. The bit I heard was about travel abroad and the high likelihood that "popular" destinations like Spain, Portugal and France were already muting the necessity for visitors to show proof.

So, your thought about proof is already being considered. Personally it makes sense to me.Cheers mate. Like I said in my post its not my business to judge whether people do or dont take the vaccine.

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[kaimendhibs]

Wasn't meant to be an aggressive tone - so apologies that it came across as that.

My first point about proof - why would it be needed at all. If it works and one has it, then there is no need to worry about others not having it.

Second point was just questions about the vaccine - not aimed at you. Should have said 'one' instead of 'you'.

I'm thinking it is all a bit rushed (and a little convenient seeing how the US election is (possibly) over).No problem mate. Just musing over possible scenarios

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[Carheenlea]

Not fussed for this season but feeling quite optimistic now that we will all take our seats for the start of next season in August.

[ScottB]

Can’t say I agree with that. So the older folk that we’ve all been trying to protect will get the vaccine first so they can swan off on holiday whilst the rest of us have to sit and wait months/ potentially years?

Yup, the UK plan seems to be, starting with folk in care homes, to progressively vaccinate everyone over 50.

Young folk will be left to risk illness for the economy as per.

[blackpoolhibs]

Personally I'm not that bothered now, I get it that some folk want back yesterday, but I can wait now and if its next season then so be it.

[Keith_M]

I don't want no micro-chip implanted in me with this vaccine for a FAKE NEWS virus!

[Baldy Foghorn]

I cannot see anything happening this season. Distributing and administrating billions of vaccine doses will take a good length of time. We will probably see preparations for next season being 'back to normal' as long as the venerable and elderly get it first but it could be further into the season before we get back to a packed Easter Road. Personally I am going to do my best to forget this season even happened as this has really kicked the brown stuff out of my mental health. I never realised how important it was to me to travel to games every week, the camaraderie on the bus, the collective shouldering of bad results and the elation of good results. It has not been the same, the football is not the same, it is soulless without fans there.

Spot on V:agree::agree:

[where'stheslope]

Can't see vaccine helping this season at all, 4 million vaccines halfed as you need 2 doses, then given to the elderly, NHS and carers first, that will be the 2 million used up.
With the time scale given, that takes us to the middle of January!
By they go down in 5 year segments to the 50's, it will be well into next season before everyone has been vaccinated.

[CapitalGreen]

Can't see vaccine helping this season at all, 4 million vaccines halfed as you need 2 doses, then given to the elderly, NHS and carers first, that will be the 2 million used up.
With the time scale given, that takes us to the middle of January!
By they go down in 5 year segments to the 50's, it will be well into next season before everyone has been vaccinated.

You’ve missed a 0. It’s 40 million doses for 20 million people.

[CapitalGreen]

Yup, the UK plan seems to be, starting with folk in care homes, to progressively vaccinate everyone over 50.

Young folk will be left to risk illness for the economy as per.

Young people who the virus poses a serious risk too will be vaccinated.

[Onion]

Managing the pandemic is all about cutting the mortality rate and relieving pressure on the NHS. If the vaccine's effective and given to those most at risk in the community, should be no reason not to allow football, rugby and other sporting events to open up. Imo there's a good chance we'll all get a chance to get along to ER well before season end.

[Eyrie]

Can’t say I agree with that. So the older folk that we’ve all been trying to protect will get the vaccine first so they can swan off on holiday whilst the rest of us have to sit and wait months/ potentially years?

So how would you prioritise the vaccine if you don't want those most at risk to get it first?

[jacomo]

With the great news we got yesterday, and with the imminent arrival of a vaccine, where does this leave us, with getting back into see our team
From what I can gather, the elderly and vulnerable with get the vaccine 1st, think at my age I’m no 8 on the list, and as it stands I believe, nothing planned for the under 50’s

So what are the chances of getting in, say in Feb, with vaccines and mass testing in Scotland’s cities

Would be something to look forward too!


Roll out expected to start by Christmas, if all goes well, and take months from there. Doesn’t meet my definition of imminent.

[G B Young]

Personally I'm not that bothered now, I get it that some folk want back yesterday, but I can wait now and if its next season then so be it.

I wonder how many football fans will end up not going back even when we get the go-ahead to do so. This pandemic will have changed the mindset/behaviour of a lot of people.

[kaimendhibs]

I don't want no micro-chip implanted in me with this vaccine for a FAKE NEWS virus![emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

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[The Tubs]

Once the vulnerable are protected, surely the rest of us can just take our chances.

[erin go bragh]

I wonder how many football fans will end up not going back even when we get the go-ahead to do so. This pandemic will have changed the mindset/behaviour of a lot of people.

I wonder what the f, non footballing fans do every weekend .
The crowds will be back with a vengeance, once allowed back in and I’ll be right at the front . Cannie wait 🤞

[ScottB]

Young people who the virus poses a serious risk too will be vaccinated.

Considering those I know who’ve got it, are still ill months later, and weren’t at serious risk, I’m not going to be rushing back into crowds just because it’ll be safe for the oldies...

[H18 SFR]

I wonder how many football fans will end up not going back even when we get the go-ahead to do so. This pandemic will have changed the mindset/behaviour of a lot of people.

Opposite for me. I’d go into a covid infested cesspit to watch hibs.

[AugustaHibs]

So how would you prioritise the vaccine if you don't want those most at risk to get it first?

No of course I want most at need to get it first. But I don’t agree that you’ll only be allowed to go on holiday etc if you’ve been vaccinated

[CropleyWasGod]

No of course I want most at need to get it first. But I don’t agree that you’ll only be allowed to go on holiday etc if you’ve been vaccinated

Vaccinations are required by many countries as it stands.

[Jones28]

No of course I want most at need to get it first. But I don’t agree that you’ll only be allowed to go on holiday etc if you’ve been vaccinated

Personally I'd rather we did it sensibly and only let people who have been vaccinated travel, instead of letting impatient people travel, potentially get ill and carry the virus home again.

[malcolm]

Vaccinations are required by many countries as it stands.

If you exclude what is required for immigration then that probably leaves yellow fever vaccinations that follow international health regulations. In the scenario where the level of vaccinations is strictly limited then any country where tourism is a key part of the economy, is unlikely to look to limit entry only on the basis of vaccinations. It will be a balance of vaccination evidence, negative tests and accepting some countries with no such proof (informed risk taking).

For football, allowing entry into games will probably take an informed risk taking approach. Informed no doubt by the levels of vaccinations and prevalence of infections whether indicated by mass rapid or symptom driven testing. Spring will help by reducing inside gatherings and hopefully will bring into play other vaccination candidates that are available in greater dose numbers and perhaps without some of the logistic challenges of the current great *white hope (though it’s mRNA approach offers exciting potential for vaccine development in future). *other shades are available :wink:

I’m looking optimistically at the hope of a first big crowd in the sun in May and then getting my dual flu/COVID jab in autumn with crowds all back to normal. But don’t wake me up yet it’s a nice dream.:greengrin

[TheGog]

Not one of those who's anti vaccine... But it takes at least 10 years to test a vaccine and for the side affects to take place this has been made in 8months. Not to mention the company Pfizer have paid the highest compensation ever seen in a court of law for disruption of deadly vaccines.

It will come but we can't rush this and this to me looks very dangerous

[whiskyhibby]

Not one of those who's anti vaccine... But it takes at least 10 years to test a vaccine and for the side affects to take place this has been made in 8months. Not to mention the company Pfizer have paid the highest compensation ever seen in a court of law for disruption of deadly vaccines.

It will come but we can't rush this and this to me looks very dangerous


The world doesn’t have at least 10 years to wait for this, all reasonable precautions must be taken, but some of the rules and regulations about bringing medicines to the market are designed to protect the interests of Big Pharmaceuticals

[malcolm]

Not one of those who's anti vaccine... But it takes at least 10 years to test a vaccine and for the side affects to take place this has been made in 8months. Not to mention the company Pfizer have paid the highest compensation ever seen in a court of law for disruption of deadly vaccines.

It will come but we can't rush this and this to me looks very dangerous

It’s @ 400 miles between Leith and London doing this by stage coach or horse in the mid 19th century might have sped along at say 5 miles an hour taking without rest over 3 days and more likely 4 or 5 days. You can do it a bit quicker today than say when Edward Jenner pioneered the early concept of vaccinations.

To say definitely that it takes at least 10years to produce and test a vaccine, because historically it did, is at best unhelpful misinformation. In contrast the WHO https://www.who.int/news/item/06-08-2009-pandemic-influenza-vaccine-manufacturing-process-and-timeline say it takes 6 months to produce a vaccine when a new type A or B flu virus is identified. As this is a novel SARS virus there is a whole front end missing from that production line example as it were, so it would also be misinformation to say they should produce a COVID vaccine in 6 months.

But science and medical knowledge is built up on what is already known and the pandemic has concentrated minds and attracted unprecedented resources to come up with new approaches and move on from what was apparently little changed from what Jenner identified. There is a lot of money to be made for the companies that get it right and safety will be paramount as there is a lot to be lost if they get it wrong. Safety is also paramount for society and governments it has to be. Getting back to normal may require sufficient uptake of vaccination and spreading trump like unfounded doubts is not helpful to anyone.

[JXM73]

90% effective eh? How do you know you're ok, putting what equates to the population of scotland at risk of still getting the virus in the uk.... how many have been infected so far in uk 1%.... effective rate needs to be higher..

[nonshinyfinish]

90% effective eh? How do you know you're ok, putting what equates to the population of scotland at risk of still getting the virus in the uk.... how many have been infected so far in uk 1%.... effective rate needs to be higher..

On a nationwide scale, the purpose of a vaccine is not to prevent every single case, but to generate sufficient immunity to severely limit transmission of the virus. Look up herd immunity.

If a 90%-effective vaccine was widely rolled out, the R number would plummet. It's simply not accurate to say that the remaining 10% would be at risk in the way people are currently at risk of getting Covid.

[jacomo]

90% effective eh? How do you know you're ok, putting what equates to the population of scotland at risk of still getting the virus in the uk.... how many have been infected so far in uk 1%.... effective rate needs to be higher..


I think you are misunderstanding statistics and risk here.

Key thing is to stop transmission of the disease to those who are vulnerable. This is what the lockdowns have been about. If those vulnerable groups are 90% less likely to suffer from Covid, it is a game changer.

[whiskyhibby]

It’s @ 400 miles between Leith and London doing this by stage coach or horse in the mid 19th century might have sped along at say 5 miles an hour taking without rest over 3 days and more likely 4 or 5 days. You can do it a bit quicker today than say when Edward Jenner pioneered the early concept of vaccinations.

To say definitely that it takes at least 10years to produce and test a vaccine, because historically it did, is at best unhelpful misinformation. In contrast the WHO https://www.who.int/news/item/06-08-2009-pandemic-influenza-vaccine-manufacturing-process-and-timeline say it takes 6 months to produce a vaccine when a new type A or B flu virus is identified. As this is a novel SARS virus there is a whole front end missing from that production line example as it were, so it would also be misinformation to say they should produce a COVID vaccine in 6 months.

But science and medical knowledge is built up on what is already known and the pandemic has concentrated minds and attracted unprecedented resources to come up with new approaches and move on from what was apparently little changed from what Jenner identified. There is a lot of money to be made for the companies that get it right and safety will be paramount as there is a lot to be lost if they get it wrong. Safety is also paramount for society and governments it has to be. Getting back to normal may require sufficient uptake of vaccination and spreading trump like unfounded doubts is not helpful to anyone.

:aok::aok: