House extension pros/cons

[H18 SFR]

I hope folk don’t mind that I’ve started a new thread given that there is already a house prices thread, hopefully this topic is different enough.

We’ve been looking for a bigger house. We’ve narrowly missed out on a few a while back but more recently we are being blown out of the water, £30k, £30+k and at a closing date on Friday, £65k by a developer who is splitting the house into two apartments.

We are now at the point where we think we could more or less put a two storey rear extension on for that kind of money which would save us doubling our mortgage as well.

The concern we have is that we have a modest sized rectangular garden at 56.2 sq m. If we put the extension on that would drop to 43 sq m.

What do folk think?

The photo is taken shows what space would be left.

[Peevemor]

We extended our house 4 years ago and right up until the last minute I was checking to see if there was something we could buy within the same global budget. There wasn't.

As for the garden, it's up to you. It's not exactly huge just now so is losing a bit going to make that much difference?

Gardens are good for young Kids, but eventually having enough room to sit outside keeps most people happy. Having more garden gives you more work, some love it and others don't.

[H18 SFR]

We extended our house 4 years ago and right up until the last minute I was checking to see if there was something we could buy within the same global budget. There wasn't.

As for the garden, it's up to you. It's note exactly huge just now so is losing a bit going to make that much difference?

Gardens are good for young Kids, but eventually having enough room to sit outside keeps most people happy. Having more garden gives you more work, some love it and others don't.

I agree with everything you’ve said. You know that way when something in the back of your mind keeps asking you is this the right decision or am I about to make a huge error.

[H18 SFR]

We extended our house 4 years ago and right up until the last minute I was checking to see if there was something we could buy within the same global budget. There wasn't.

As for the garden, it's up to you. It's note exactly huge just now so is losing a bit going to make that much difference?

Gardens are good for young Kids, but eventually having enough room to sit outside keeps most people happy. Having more garden gives you more work, some love it and others don't.

Meant to ask - Are you happy overall that you extended and didn’t move?

[Peevemor]

I agree with everything you’ve said. You know that way when something in the back of your mind keeps asking you is this the right decision or am I about to make a huge error.We built our house 11 years ago (in France is often the cheapest way). The idea was to keep the monthly outgoings at no more than we were paying in (private) rent.

We ended up building something that did the job and not much more, with a view to moving to something better/bigger after 6-7 years when we got more money together.

However, it turned out that although we needed more space, we didn't really want to move or at least not very far so we ended up extending.

It was quite expensive as the loo under the stair was the only "room" that wasn't affected, but still the right move financially & in terms of lifestyle.

[H18 SFR]

We built our house 11 years ago (in France is often the cheapest way). The idea was to keep the monthly outgoings at no more than we were paying in (private) rent.

We ended up building something that did the job and not much more, with a view to moving to something better/bigger after 6-7 years when we got more money together.

However, it turned out that although we needed more space, we didn't really want to move or at least not very far so we ended up extending.

It was quite expensive as the loo under the stair was the only "room" that wasn't affected, but still the right move financially & in terms of lifestyle.

👍👍

[pollution]

The problem with extending is that it will tie you to not moving, perhaps for many years and you will miss out on living in a bigger property

which will probably appreciate in value. That said, your extended property will appreciate too, but any such increase will be constrained by the area

in which you live.

Useless help, I know , if you keep missing out on a different property each time but I would ideally move.

[Itsnoteasy]

I hope folk don’t mind that I’ve started a new thread given that there is already a house prices thread, hopefully this topic is different enough.

We’ve been looking for a bigger house. We’ve narrowly missed out on a few a while back but more recently we are being blown out of the water, £30k, £30+k and at a closing date on Friday, £65k by a developer who is splitting the house into two apartments.

We are now at the point where we think we could more or less put a two storey rear extension on for that kind of money which would save us doubling our mortgage as well.

The concern we have is that we have a modest sized rectangular garden at 56.2 sq m. If we put the extension on that would drop to 43 sq m.

What do folk think?

The photo is taken shows what space would be left.

As I've mentioned on other thread, I have went between £40k - £70K over home report valuation for 5 properties all in Edinburgh & missed out on them all. The market has to drop eventually, but when. If you are thinking of moving you will probably regret building an extension which will tie you to where you are for longer.

[H18 SFR]

As I've mentioned on other thread, I have went between £40k - £70K over home report valuation for 5 properties all in Edinburgh & missed out on them all. The market has to drop eventually, but when. If you are thinking of moving you will probably regret building an extension which will tie you to where you are for longer.

The dilemma we face is that we absolutely love our home but we need another bedroom and more living space.

Our proposed extension would take us up to / slightly over the sq m of the properties we’d be missing out on. The only doubt is the garden size.

[CapitalGreen]

The dilemma we face is that we absolutely love our home but we need another bedroom and more living space.

Our proposed extension would take us up to / slightly over the sq m of the properties we’d be missing out on. The only doubt is the garden size.

Would the extension impact the light you would get in the remainder of the garden? As someone who isn’t fussed about gardening but enjoys have somewhere to sit out in the sun, that would be my main consideration.

[H18 SFR]

Would the extension impact the light you would get in the remainder of the garden? As someone who isn’t fussed about gardening but enjoys have somewhere to sit out in the sun, that would be my main consideration.

No it wouldn’t. All the light is at the other end. That’s one thing the wife and I are comfortable with.

[One Day Soon]

Another factor to consider is what kind of rooms are you adding and where is the house? For example, you probably don't want to be creating eg a five bedroom house in an area where someone in future is not going to want to pay a high price for a house in that area just because it is a lot of rooms.

[H18 SFR]

Another factor to consider is what kind of rooms are you adding and where is the house? For example, you probably don't want to be creating eg a five bedroom house in an area where someone in future is not going to want to pay a high price for a house in that area just because it is a lot of rooms.

Extra bedroom and more living area. Totally agree with your point, thankfully there are many bigger houses within 1/4 mile. They seem to sell well, our problem is we just won’t go £30-£70k over value.

[One Day Soon]

Extra bedroom and more living area. Totally agree with your point, thankfully there are many bigger houses within 1/4 mile. They seem to sell well, our problem is we just won’t go £30-£70k over value.

Sounds pretty sensible to me. Any prospect that you could make the top of the extension some kind of rooftop terrace which would give you a nice view and a kind of elevated garden space?

[H18 SFR]

We have another appointment with the architect at 11am tomorrow. That would certainly interest us.

[Itsnoteasy]

We have another appointment with the architect at 11am tomorrow. That would certainly interest us.

Is your architect recommended or someone you know. As with any walk of life there are some $h1t3 ones out there.

[danhibees1875]

Sounds pretty sensible to me. Any prospect that you could make the top of the extension some kind of rooftop terrace which would give you a nice view and a kind of elevated garden space?

Slightly off topic but I love a roof top terrace and would love to have one!

[H18 SFR]

Is your architect recommended or someone you know. As with any walk of life there are some $h1t3 ones out there.

Yes he was recommended but ironically we heard a horror story about him today. Back to the drawing board 😂😂

[calumhibee1]

Sounds pretty sensible to me. Any prospect that you could make the top of the extension some kind of rooftop terrace which would give you a nice view and a kind of elevated garden space?

Another vote for rooftop terrace and I’m no even living in your house :greengrin

[Alfiembra]

There are so many moving parts to any building project that a good team is essential, because it’s not just an architect it’s also the contractor and possibly a structural engineer and quantity surveyor. Also be aware of the fees involved I’d budget for at least 10% of the build cost in fees alone. An architect may have all these services available as a design construct team but be watertight in whatever contract you end up with and agree in advance how payments are made based on key targets being met particularly end dates.
Will you be living in the house as the building work is progressing? If you are that in itself can be very stressful, there is always an element of mess during construction and it inevitably gets into your home in the form of dust, noise, leaks etc.
As for the design itself consider incorporating additional storage and bathroom/toilet space maybe an en-suite. If you don’t already have it you’ll be amazed how useful an extra loo is. :agree:
This is where a good architect can really add value to the project.

[H18 SFR]

There are so many moving parts to any building project that a good team is essential, because it’s not just an architect it’s also the contractor and possibly a structural engineer and quantity surveyor. Also be aware of the fees involved I’d budget for at least 10% of the build cost in fees alone. An architect may have all these services available as a design construct team but be watertight in whatever contract you end up with and agree in advance how payments are made based on key targets being met particularly end dates.
Will you be living in the house as the building work is progressing? If you are that in itself can be very stressful, there is always an element of mess during construction and it inevitably gets into your home in the form of dust, noise, leaks etc.
As for the design itself consider incorporating additional storage and bathroom/toilet space maybe an en-suite. If you don’t already have it you’ll be amazed how useful an extra loo is. :agree:
This is where a good architect can really add value to the project.

Great advice.

[Since90+2]

I wonder if anyone has previously converted their strict into a usable space? We have considered an extension but it means cutting into our garden which we'd rather not do if entirely possible.

Does anyone have an idea of costs and timescales for a fairly standard conversion?

[Moulin Yarns]

Don't forget to factor in the cost of planning and building permission as well as professional fees, about £8,000 and the estimated cost of the build from the architect won't include VAT at 20%

[Peevemor]

Don't forget to factor in the cost of planning and building permission as well as professional fees, about £8,000 and the estimated cost of the build from the architect won't include VAT at 20%That depends on how the architect presents the estimated cost.

We always gave a bottom line that included everything - Warrant & Planning application fees, out of pocket expenses, other professional fees (eg. Structural Engineer), VAT on both works cost & fees and ordinarily a contingency sum for unforseen stuff.

There's no point keeping stuff from clients just to keep them happy. It's better to present a worst case scenario in terms of finance & timescale then any improvement is a bonus.

[Itsnoteasy]

That depends on how the architect presents the estimated cost.

We always gave a bottom line that included everything - Warrant & Planning application fees, out of pocket expenses, other professional fees (eg. Structural Engineer), VAT on both works cost & fees and ordinarily a contingency sum for unforseen stuff.

There's no point keeping stuff from clients just to keep them happy. It's better to present a worst case scenario in terms of finance & timescale then any improvement is a bonus..

Got to agree with you. If it isn't a big extension I wouldn't waste my money on an architect to oversee your project. I would only use them for doing the drawings.

[Jones28]

I started the process for my house before we moved. I was told to anticipate costs of around £2k/metre squared but we were doing a kitchen that was going to be quite fancy so that bumped the price up a fair bit. Otherwise it would have been about £1500. In the end we decided to drop it because we felt the value we would be outweighed by the total costs.

The architect I spoke to outlined a cost on a point by point basis, or the said we can do it by final % costs, so the choice was to either pay it up at a fixed costs and incentivise them doing for less or gamble on the % cost being lessened.

I was very excited by the prospect but ultimately we would have by limited on the value because of the area. Now that wasn’t our end goal, but it was certainly a big part of our decision to move rather than improve.

Another point was that we were at a certain point with our house that we were sick of the little niggly things than the ham fisted previous occupants had ****ed up that we just didn’t have the energy to sort. So I guess I’m saying we found the decision a lot easier to make.

[H18 SFR]

We’ve had our first quote from an architect for their service, here is the just of it from the email...

Our fee for alterations of this size and complexity is fixed fee of £2900.00 [no VAT charged]. 25% at sketch design stage, 25% issue at planning lodgement and 25% at warrant lodgement and 25% at warrant approval based on a £40-50000 build cost for the extension/alterations. If the build cost increases or decreases, our fee would remain the same. Planning can take 6 – 8 weeks and Warrant can be 2 – 3 months, depending on the council’s workloads and staffing levels. We can arrange for a 3 dimensional model to be produced in virtual reality headsets to help you visualize the final design for a further £600.00 if required to let you see that you have reached the right decision before proceeding.

Does £2,900 seem about right for architect fees? I know this figure doesn’t include planning fees etc.

[Peevemor]

I can only compare it to how I calculated these things when I was still in Edinburgh.

The architect's fee stages were as follows.

Outline scheme design - 15%
Submission of planning application - +20% (35% cumulative)
Submission of building warrant application - +20% (55%)
Production of tender drawings/information - +20% (75%)
Contract/site works - +25% (100%)

If the architect is stopping at Building Warrant stage, this represents 55% of a full service. If 55% = £2900, then 100% = £5272.

If we take a works cost of £45k, £5272 represents a fee of 11.7% for a full service.

The recommended architect's fee for a full service for a contract of this size and nature is in excess 15%, therefore the 11.7% (equivalent) proposed looks pretty good.

This is based on the attached fee scales (class 5 on the 2nd graph).

One thing you should ask is how much they'll charge should you require an Amendment of Warrant - there are different reasons why things might change between now and the end of the works. This will normally be based on an hourly rate, but there's no harm in having it confirmed.

24096

[H18 SFR]

I can only compare it to how I calculated these things when I was still in Edinburgh.

The architect's fee stages were as follows.

Outline scheme design - 15%
Submission of planning application - +20% (35% cumulative)
Submission of building warrant application - +20% (55%)
Production of tender drawings/information - +20% (75%)
Contract/site works - +25% (100%)

If the architect is stopping at Building Warrant stage, this represents 55% of a full service. If 55% = £2900, then 100% = £5272.

If we take a works cost of £45k, £5272 represents a fee of 11.7% for a full service.

The recommended architect's fee for a full service for a contract of this size and nature is in excess 15%, therefore the 11.7% (equivalent) proposed looks pretty good.

This is based on the attached fee scales (class 5 on the 2nd graph).

One thing you should ask is how much they'll charge should you require an Amendment of Warrant - there are different reasons why things might change between now and the end of the works. This will normally be based on an hourly rate, but there's no harm in having it confirmed.

24096

Can’t tell you how much we appreciate you taking the time to do this for us.

[Peevemor]

Can’t tell you how much we appreciate you taking the time to do this for us.Happy to help.

[pollution]

I never realised it could be so complex.

[H18 SFR]

The architect arranged for the structural engineer to come round for a look. Sadly it would take more steelwork than we hoped to get the upstairs additional room. Also something about the angle of the hip etc. Basically to budget up to £20,000 more. It’s a no go now.

[Moulin Yarns]

The architect arranged for the structural engineer to come round for a look. Sadly it would take more steelwork than we hoped to get the upstairs additional room. Also something about the angle of the hip etc. Basically to budget up to £20,000 more. It’s a no go now.

Sorry to hear that, what was the steelwork for? can it not be done in timber/glulam?

[H18 SFR]

Sorry to hear that, what was the steelwork for? can it not be done in timber/glulam?

We’d hoped to open up the full rear elevation on the ground floor including an existing historic extension that currently houses a long and narrow kitchen. We currently have a velux style attic conversion. We’d basically have to remove a full side of the roof and start again to get the second storey extension we wanted. Because we wanted a middle section a few metres wide coming out the weight involved is way more than the existing structure can take. Such a shame.

[Itsnoteasy]

The architect arranged for the structural engineer to come round for a look. Sadly it would take more steelwork than we hoped to get the upstairs additional room. Also something about the angle of the hip etc. Basically to budget up to £20,000 more. It’s a no go now.

Structural Engineer is the most important person when starting a building project. Good luck moving forward with your next move.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Another con - having to deal with tradesmen who are all experts in other trades. Guaranteed the plumber will be criticising the plasterer, the plasterer will be asking who your joiner was and the joiner will be moaning about the bricky.

[Itsnoteasy]

Another con - having to deal with tradesmen who are all experts in other trades. Guaranteed the plumber will be criticising the plasterer, the plasterer will be asking who your joiner was and the joiner will be moaning about the bricky.

Hows that a con?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Hows that a con?

Cos it’s a pain in the arse. They all think they know each others job better than the expert and make sure everyone knows. Just get the wiring done please mr sparky and I’ll ask the joiner about the skirtings.

[Sergio sledge]

Another con - having to deal with tradesmen who are all experts in other trades. Guaranteed the plumber will be criticising the plasterer, the plasterer will be asking who your joiner was and the joiner will be moaning about the bricky.

I'm building a house just now and having to deal with this very thing. The joiner is the worst, complains about everything the other trades are doing and says he would have done it differently. It can be pretty tiresome...

[Speedy]

I'm building a house just now and having to deal with this very thing. The joiner is the worst, complains about everything the other trades are doing and says he would have done it differently. It can be pretty tiresome...

Had the same when we were getting the bathroom done.

'Tell him to give me a phone'. Piss off, there's the number, phone him yourself.

[Scouse Hibee]

Another con - having to deal with tradesmen who are all experts in other trades. Guaranteed the plumber will be criticising the plasterer, the plasterer will be asking who your joiner was and the joiner will be moaning about the bricky.

Like the plumber who found the problem, started effing and blinding and said “who the **** left this like this”. My answer “well you were the last plumber who worked on it about three years ago” 😂

[Danderhall Hibs]

Like the plumber who found the problem, started effing and blinding and said “who the **** left this like this”. My answer “well you were the last plumber who worked on it about three years ago” 😂

😂 I bought a new house rather than build an extension (which would’ve been cheaper) just to save myself the unnecessary hassle they bring.

[Jones28]

The architect arranged for the structural engineer to come round for a look. Sadly it would take more steelwork than we hoped to get the upstairs additional room. Also something about the angle of the hip etc. Basically to budget up to £20,000 more. It’s a no go now.

Sorry to hear that. I had something similar when we were weighing up move/improve. I over estimated how much value I thought we would add to the house and we would have ended up out of pocket - not by much but still by enough to put us off.

As it turned out the house we moved to us better than anything we could have turned our old place in to - it might be a blessing in disguise?

I was properly gutted when we decided not to though, I got really excited and had the thing practically built by the time we made our minds up properly.

And when I say “we”, think we all know who “we” refers to 😂

[EI255]

I'm at a junction right now too. Was seriously thinking of building a two storey extension, plus extension of kitchen/dining area into garden. However, with all the associated costs and also the fact that some trades works are taking an eternity /costing a fortune in Edinburgh and Lothians right now we are now thinking of selling the house and putting a deposit down on a new build. I'm at the stage I really can't be bothered with all the hassle and negotiations and possible hefty delays.

Out of interest, how much do you think it would cost, in total, to build a two storey extension (to include one more bedroom) plus the build of a rear single extension to dining area? (with patio doors out to garden etc) No fancy timber construction, just use similar existing brick work and tiles.

Thanks.

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[Since90+2]

I'm at a junction right now too. Was seriously thinking of building a two storey extension, plus extension of kitchen/dining area into garden. However, with all the associated costs and also the fact that some trades works are taking an eternity /costing a fortune in Edinburgh and Lothians right now we are now thinking of selling the house and putting a deposit down on a new build. I'm at the stage I really can't be bothered with all the hassle and negotiations and possible hefty delays.

Out of interest, how much do you think it would cost, in total, to build a two storey extension (to include one more bedroom) plus the build of a rear single extension to dining area? (with patio doors out to garden etc) No fancy timber construction, just use similar existing brick work and tiles.

Thanks.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

Around £1,500-£2,000 per sqm is what I've been told previously. That won't include architect fees.

What you are describing sounds like a fairly large extension and the total sqm a decent size so if you got any change out of £80,000 I'd be surprised.

[H18 SFR]

I'm at a junction right now too. Was seriously thinking of building a two storey extension, plus extension of kitchen/dining area into garden. However, with all the associated costs and also the fact that some trades works are taking an eternity /costing a fortune in Edinburgh and Lothians right now we are now thinking of selling the house and putting a deposit down on a new build. I'm at the stage I really can't be bothered with all the hassle and negotiations and possible hefty delays.

Out of interest, how much do you think it would cost, in total, to build a two storey extension (to include one more bedroom) plus the build of a rear single extension to dining area? (with patio doors out to garden etc) No fancy timber construction, just use similar existing brick work and tiles.

Thanks.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

Obviously it will depend on the spec and size but we were hoping for around £50k but that became £70k. That was for 17.84 sq m ground floor and nearer 25 sq m up top as we were adding space above an existing bit of the house.

[EI255]

Around £1,500-£2,000 per sqm is what I've been told previously. That won't include architect fees.

What you are describing sounds like a fairly large extension and the total sqm a decent size so if you got any change out of £80,000 I'd be surprised.Many thanks for that. Pretty much what I was expecting. Think I'd rather buy a new build, but I'll see. Might get some more detailed pricing / architect fees etc.

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[EI255]

Obviously it will depend on the spec and size but we were hoping for around £50k but that became £70k. That was for 17.84 sq m ground floor and nearer 25 sq m up top as we were adding space above an existing bit of the house.Cheers mate.

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[BSEJVT]

We did both, we bought a new house and then made a major conversion to it as soon as we could get planning through when we moved in.

It has turned out really well but the hassle factor was off the charts, planning was a pain in the backside and even after getting a building warrant for it, the planners wanted a structural engineers report before signing the completion certificate.

It was a double garage conversion and they wanted the report to prove that the new wall and windows could hold the weight of the roof up.

Eh it was sitting on flimsy metal garage doors before!

Once you are committed it is their ball and they make the rules as it suits them and move at their pace, I think you also inevitably end up wanting to spec up the works and the costs rocket.

We had previously done up our old house a few years before and it had again come round to move or improve time on it, we decided in favour of moving.

Had we decided to stay and improve we would still have been left with the old issues of the old house and would never have seen a value increase equivalent to what we spent.

Another thing to consider is that after the works are done, the existing house inevitably looks tired compared to the new bit and you will end up spending a fortune bringing the existing house up to equivalent standard, we did first time around and hey presto the decision to improve makes no financial sense at all.

We just got to the point that we wouldn't spend any more money on the old house.

Also IMO unless you have loads of room to extend and loads of money, it can end up in your converting an existing room into effectively a hall to get to the new bit and ends up costing a lot for a little actual gain.

[H18 SFR]

We have decided to move, we are fine with the space we have just now but with the arrival of a new baby on Monday past we will quickly outgrow the place.

We were chatting last night and hope to hang on in there until 2022/23. Save some pennies to have a decent pot for purchase.

[Moulin Yarns]

We have decided to move, we are fine with the space we have just now but with the arrival of a new baby on Monday past we will quickly outgrow the place.

We were chatting last night and hope to hang on in there until 2022/23. Save some pennies to have a decent pot for purchase.

This might be some good news for you.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/house-price-index-november-2020?utm_source=uknewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletternovember320&utm_content=housepriceindex

[McD]

We have decided to move, we are fine with the space we have just now but with the arrival of a new baby on Monday past we will quickly outgrow the place.

We were chatting last night and hope to hang on in there until 2022/23. Save some pennies to have a decent pot for purchase.


Congratulations buddy :)

[pollution]

This might be some good news for you.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/house-price-index-november-2020?utm_source=uknewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletternovember320&utm_content=housepriceindex


I read a lot about national and Edinburgh house pricing and have done so for years.

This is an interesting read but the one caveat is that national figures have little meaning when drilled down to not just Scottish levels but to Edinburgh prices

and then to almost street pricing etc

As soon as the Covid restrictions hit in March estate agents nationally warned of a dip in prices but the opposite happened, for whatever reason.

Specifically, a house of flat is worth what the " market " considers it to be worth with the age old location location being so important.

I am not a doer up owner: I think consciously moving up to a " better " area is a good bet, and not just once but perhaps two or three times in all.

Each to their own , of course. Just some thoughts of someone who has seen it all before !

[Moulin Yarns]

I read a lot about national and Edinburgh house pricing and have done so for years.

This is an interesting read but the one caveat is that national figures have little meaning when drilled down to not just Scottish levels but to Edinburgh prices

and then to almost street pricing etc

As soon as the Covid restrictions hit in March estate agents nationally warned of a dip in prices but the opposite happened, for whatever reason.

Specifically, a house of flat is worth what the " market " considers it to be worth with the age old location location being so important.

I am not a doer up owner: I think consciously moving up to a " better " area is a good bet, and not just once but perhaps two or three times in all.

Each to their own , of course. Just some thoughts of someone who has seen it all before !


I'm on my third house in 40 years, almost certainly not the norm.

1979 First flat, bought for £4,000, improved it, sold it after 4 years for £12k
1983 After the flat a victorian semi cottage, bought for £13.5k, improved and sold after 5 years for £35k
1988 current house detatched rural situation bought for £33.5k and improved and I haven't a clue what it's worth, but I'm not planning on moving.