'Treating it like any other game'

[Pretty Boy]

Of all the things that have upset people after last night it seems this phrase or a variation on it is the most repeated complaint.

I'm curious as to what people would expect us to do differently in the build up to a derby and the benefit they feel it would have? Professional teams have very finely tuned routines in the build up to a game, it's all very structured and is designed to ensure players are familiar with what is being asked of them and prepared to do it.

It's easy to say 'it isn't just any other game' because to us as fans it's not and it isn't for the players either. However what would people specifically like us to do differently in the build up? What do Hearts do that we don't? Did they tweak their usual schedule this week? Would having a fan in to explain the importance of the game really be more beneficial than video analysis of the opposition? As if the players are unaware what a derby game means. Would an afternoon watching a derby victory be more useful than spending an hour on a customised gym workout?

I'm not looking for an argument, I'm as upset as anyone by the result and performance last night but I'm just curious as to cut through the anger and see what people feel we should do differently in a derby week? What benefits would there be to changing a pretty set routine? Do other teams habitually change their build up and prep before a derby?

[Jones28]

The only thing I would say is that I bet Hearts do things differently. I don’t know what, but I’d bet things change for them in the build up.

If you want the team to approach a derby differently you must have to do something different in the build up.

[MWHIBBIES]

Sadly, we cant even manage to treat it like any other game. Nisbit has scored all his pens and 2 much harder headers this season. If he treats it like any other game, we win easily.

[Andy74]

The only thing I would say is that I bet Hearts do things differently. I don’t know what, but I’d bet things change for them in the build up.

If you want the team to approach a derby differently you must have to do something different in the build up.

One thing they do is pay the striker that scored their penalty about four times what we pay ours. 😉

[truehibernian]

Because it's not just another game PB, it's a derby in a national cup which so illuded us for a decade, and a chance of a final that let's face it many of the players won't play in in their short careers..............it's a must win for many reasons and for a captain to even utter it publicly is simply baffling. As I said before, sport has a huge element of psychology and to get an edge you have to sledge and have a show of force and intent. I hate hearing the phrase, as it inevitably has fans questioning (as we are doing now).

I'd much rather lose despite pre-game chest thumping, than lose and come out with the phrase.

[J-C]

Technically it is just another game and the build up to it should be the same as any other game, it's the psychological build up to the game that seems to be lacking. What are the pre match talks like? Does Ross do enough to instil that bit of fire in the belly? Are there certain players in the squad who have a too relaxed type of attitude? Is he using the experienced players like McGregor and Gray behind the scenes to help the other players know what's expected?

Games against your biggest rivals are vital for the fans, Bartley came in as an outsider but knew immediately what it was all about, Stubbs played for Celtic and he had experience of the OF derby games so knew the importance of them.

[Tyler Durden]

Not so much the prep but the on field stuff has to be different. We needed to be aggressive from the start and show them no respect.

The “treat it like any other game” rhetoric seems to be based on a belief that if we do the right things and play our normal game, we’ll get our rewards. We know that is not the case.

It wasn’t just a semi final, it was a derby. Something that might not come around again for 20 years. They should have treated it like the last game of their lives.

The manager seems to do nothing to get them motivated. It’s naive and misguided

[The 90+2]

I hope the club get the importance of losing yesterday.

It could be the difference between five people and twenty five people going into the new shop at the gyle for instance and it’s not exaggerating.

I’ll admit, I ****ing hate hearts, I genuinely seriously can’t stand them. We never turn up against them when it really matters.

We swap the teams around yesterday and they win 4-0 or something. Ross doesn’t seem to care about it being more important. I would have Yogi in as his number two.

[JimBHibees]

Because it's not just another game PB, it's a derby in a national cup which so illuded us for a decade, and a chance of a final that let's face it many of the players won't play in in their short careers..............it's a must win for many reasons and for a captain to even utter it publicly is simply baffling. As I said before, sport has a huge element of psychology and to get an edge you have to sledge and have a show of force and intent. I hate hearing the phrase, as it inevitably has fans questioning (as we are doing now).

I'd much rather lose despite pre-game chest thumping, than lose and come out with the phrase.

To be fair to Paul I think it was in relation to what advice he would give younger players in the team like Doig. To avoid them getting too tense think it is reasonable advice to be honest. Last night Hearts were not anymore up for it than we were. Game was down to individual errors or pieces of skill.

[The 90+2]

To be fair to Paul I think it was in relation to what advice he would give younger players in the team like Doig. To avoid them getting too tense think it is reasonable advice to be honest. Last night Hearts were not anymore up for it than we were. Game was down to individual errors or pieces of skill.

Yeah they where.

We had the better players, they won the game because they wanted it more.

[Andy74]

Yeah they where.

We had the better players, they won the game because they wanted it more.

That really doesn’t mean anything.

[Hiber-nation]

There's no arrogance in the squad. We had it before with the likes of Cummings and Bartley and Stubbs himself had a bit of that about him going into derbies.

I don't think Hanlon's comments had much bearing on the performance.

[The 90+2]

That really doesn’t mean anything.

It means we lost to lower league ***** and bottled it. Again. They played the occasion and won.

[Pretty Boy]

Not so much the prep but the on field stuff has to be different. We needed to be aggressive from the start and show them no respect.

The “treat it like any other game” rhetoric seems to be based on a belief that if we do the right things and play our normal game, we’ll get our rewards. We know that is not the case.

It wasn’t just a semi final, it was a derby. Something that might not come around again for 20 years. They should have treated it like the last game of their lives.

The manager seems to do nothing to get them motivated. It’s naive and misguided

Did we show a lack of aggression or fight though? I would say the number of daft fouls we gave away and the lack of discipline around that was one of my biggest peeves last night. I can recall Newell squaring up to Halliday in the 1st half as the one real flashpoint in terms of aggression. I didn't really feel Hearts looked more up for it than us albeit I was angry with our performance.

So far the replies are we need to do something different but little specifics as to what. I don't believe someone like Darren McGregor would leave the players in any doubt about what a derby means. We do have a mental block in derbies but I don't agree it's because we treat them lightly.

[truehibernian]

To be fair to Paul I think it was in relation to what advice he would give younger players in the team like Doig. To avoid them getting too tense think it is reasonable advice to be honest. Last night Hearts were not anymore up for it than we were. Game was down to individual errors or pieces of skill.

I know why he said it Jim, but even young players have to play with tension, adrenaline and fear...........fear can be turned into a positive energy. It's also what you implant in the opposition's minds. Last two derbies we have played safe and wanted to grow into the game..........previous games we have won and outplayed them we have been bang up for it from kick off. Marciano dithering and the defence playing too many passes first half sowed the seed and I knew we would end up on the end of a defeat, simply because we were trying to play cute football rather than be direct and confident. Time again we were in good positions and we were unsure or slow with the pass. Hearts gained confidence from that in my opinion and got a foothold at times.

[The Harp Awakes]

Not so much the prep but the on field stuff has to be different. We needed to be aggressive from the start and show them no respect.

The “treat it like any other game” rhetoric seems to be based on a belief that if we do the right things and play our normal game, we’ll get our rewards. We know that is not the case.

It wasn’t just a semi final, it was a derby. Something that might not come around again for 20 years. They should have treated it like the last game of their lives.

The manager seems to do nothing to get them motivated. It’s naive and misguided

Agree with all of that. I'd go further and say some of our players looked scared last night, not just lacking motivation.

Neilson said in his pre-match interview that their preparation since the start of the season was built around this game. They got the squad together 2 months before their first league game with the Semi Final in mind. JR when asked a similar question said that he was 'conscious' of the Semi Final (or words to that effect). Says it all really.

[DarlingtonHibee]

The only thing I would say is that I bet Hearts do things differently. I don’t know what, but I’d bet things change for them in the build up.

If you want the team to approach a derby differently you must have to do something different in the build up.

As you said you don't know..

[Andy74]

It means we lost to lower league ***** and bottled it. Again. They played the occasion and won.

Played the occasion is another meaningless phrase. How did this play out in the game?

[The 90+2]

Played the occasion is another meaningless phrase. How did this play out in the game?

It played out with them, with an inferior team, winning.

When they have a superior team, they pump us. Let’s not pretend it’s not true either.

We have better players / narrowly win or lose because they know how to play derbies

They have better players / they **** us.

The evidence we all know is there deep down. Let’s not pretend yesterday was some kind of one off shock because we all knew plukey would be man of the match and we lose.

Yesterday was the time for our club to prove us all wrong. To keep the feel good factor going and to damage they ***** more. Now with no support in the grounds or fans going back anytime soon you can wave goodbye to goodwill the fans have next season.

[lenny leith]

I know why he said it Jim, but even young players have to play with tension, adrenaline and fear...........fear can be turned into a positive energy. It's also what you implant in the opposition's minds. Last two derbies we have played safe and wanted to grow into the game..........previous games we have won and outplayed them we have been bang up for it from kick off. Marciano dithering and the defence playing too many passes first half sowed the seed and I knew we would end up on the end of a defeat, simply because we were trying to play cute football rather than be direct and confident. Time again we were in good positions and we were unsure or slow with the pass. Hearts gained confidence from that in my opinion and got a foothold at times.
Correct 100%. Hibs are slow and dithering and no one to get the ball and sharp forward passed. Marciano is a bog standard goalkeeper and not very good. Too many players are slow inefficient and not ball winners. They have no idea just what the DERBY means to Hibeees.

[Jones28]

As you said you don't know..

That’s not what I said though is it? I said I bet they do things differently. I don’t what, but you can bet they will. Why have they had the edge in more derbies in the last 30/40 years? Because they don’t treat it like every other match.

[stantonhibby]

It played out with them, with an inferior team, winning.

When they have a superior team, they pump us. Let’s not pretend it’s not true either.

We have better players / narrowly win or lose because they know how to play derbies

They have better players / they **** us.

The evidence we all know is there deep down. Let’s not pretend yesterday was some kind of one off shock because we all knew plukey would be man of the match and we lose.

Yesterday was the time for our club to prove us all wrong. To keep the feel good factor going and to damage they ***** more. Now with no support in the grounds or fans going back anytime soon you can wave goodbye to goodwill the fans have next season.

If you were so sure how it would pan out why was your pre match prediction 4-1 to us then?

[The 90+2]

If you were so sure how it would pan out why was your pre match prediction 4-1 to us then?

I admire you following my predictions but I was riding a crest of optimism at that moment in time and now, the day after, it’s the same feeling of will I ever learn?

[ballengeich]

Many years ago Alex Miller revealed that he always tried to change things for the Derbies. The response posted was "Perhaps he could try winning". If you think the way you prepare is right why change it. Yesterday was always going to be close. They scored their penalty, we didn't and that was what decided it.

[stantonhibby]

I admire you following my predictions but I was riding a crest of optimism at that moment in time and now, the day after, it’s the same feeling of will I ever learn?

Fair enough, can't argue with that. It's the hope that gets you.

[Pretty Boy]

It played out with them, with an inferior team, winning.

When they have a superior team, they pump us. Let’s not pretend it’s not true either.

We have better players / narrowly win or lose because they know how to play derbies

They have better players / they **** us.

The evidence we all know is there deep down. Let’s not pretend yesterday was some kind of one off shock because we all knew plukey would be man of the match and we lose.

Yesterday was the time for our club to prove us all wrong. To keep the feel good factor going and to damage they ***** more. Now with no support in the grounds or fans going back anytime soon you can wave goodbye to goodwill the fans have next season.

I think the difference in quality between the squads has been a bit exaggerated. Generally by those predicting us to win by 4 or 5 earlier in the week.

They brought a player who but for injury would usually be a starting midfielder of the bench in Haring and a guy who was still playing international football for Scotland last year. We brought on a 3rd choice LB who in normal times would have left the club this summer.

I'm being deliberately selective for impact but they have a pretty decent squad and are operating a top 6 Premiership budget. We should have won last night but the gulf in quality is nowhere near what some seem to think.

[The 90+2]

Fair enough, can't argue with that. It's the hope that gets you.

👌

[Andy74]

It played out with them, with an inferior team, winning.

When they have a superior team, they pump us. Let’s not pretend it’s not true either.

We have better players / narrowly win or lose because they know how to play derbies

They have better players / they **** us.

The evidence we all know is there deep down. Let’s not pretend yesterday was some kind of one off shock because we all knew plukey would be man of the match and we lose.

Yesterday was the time for our club to prove us all wrong. To keep the feel good factor going and to damage they ***** more. Now with no support in the grounds or fans going back anytime soon you can wave goodbye to goodwill the fans have next season.

So one thing you touched on there is that we know they have a top class goalkeeper. That was relevant in how the game played out.

Their expensive striker with experience of big games scored their penalty.

They were able to bring players like Naismith, Haring and White from the bench that had an impact.

They had a Scottish international left back in very good form start and we had to play a young guy who has struggled in the bigger games. He was replaced by a guy miles from our team usually.

The inferior team thing isn’t really that true at this point.

Still, we had the better of it. I didn’t see any lack of effort or more effort from them.

Their important players that they pay a fortune on delivered for them in a game of fine margins.

[The 90+2]

I think the difference in quality between the squads has been a bit exaggerated. Generally by those predicting us to win by 4 or 5 earlier in the week.

They brought a player who but for injury would usually be a starting midfielder of the bench in Haring and a guy who was still playing international football for Scotland last year. We brought on a 3rd choice LB who in normal times would have left the club this summer.

I'm being deliberately selective for impact but they have a pretty decent squad and are operating a top 6 Premiership budget. We should have won last night but the gulf in quality is nowhere near what some seem to think.

I’m not saying they are of Hamilton or St Mirren proportion and they definitely under achieved (apart from twice against us shock horror) last season but at the same time they are in the lower leagues, with still an inferior side, played a lot less competitive games, we are third in the Premiership and will be the biggest chance on paper to wipe the floor clean with them at Hampden, and we ****ed it. That’s after utter humiliations and a chance to give our support something back from they two games. It’s so so gutting. It’s not just another loss or another game either it’s more than that for me this time because we have the better team but we lost, again.

Jack Ross doesn’t seem to treat is as anything but another game either. I don’t understand it. Like I said it could be the difference between plenty people going into our new shop in the Gyle for instance and that will cost the club plenty too.

[The 90+2]

So one thing you touched on there is that we know they have a top class goalkeeper. That was relevant in how the game played out.

Their expensive striker with experience of big games scored their penalty.

They were able to bring players like Naismith, Haring and White from the bench that had an impact.

They had a Scottish international left back in very good form start and we had to play a young guy who has struggled in the bigger games. He was replaced by a guy miles from our team usually.

The inferior team thing isn’t really that true at this point.

Still, we had the better of it. I didn’t see any lack of effort or more effort from them.

Their important players that they pay a fortune on delivered for them in a game of fine margins.

So you’re either making excuses or saying they have a better side than us? Which one is it?

It’s not a one off either, why talk about margins when they same margins have came into play all your life in these games? Is it just one massive **** off coincidence aye?

[Scotty Leither]

That’s not what I said though is it? I said I bet they do things differently. I don’t what, but you can bet they will. Why have they had the edge in more derbies in the last 30/40 years? Because they don’t treat it like every other match.

...and that's the answer in a nutshell to the OP's question.

"Meek" is how the club as a whole from the Directors downwards engage with them.

Their record against us feeds their cockiness and gives them an advantage in this fixture, but you can counter that in other ways, such as not sacking your match announcer for daring to play a cheeky song that references their tax dodging; or for a more recent example of when the league was called and everyone in Scottish football was having their tuppence worth about how unfair and unjust it was on poor old put-upon HMFC.

Everyone had their say except us of course, we kept our usual "dignified silence"...If I were Dempster, I would have been publically suggesting that if league reconstruction were to take place then the bottom team still had to take their medicine and go down. The reaction from that mob would've been something to behold - petty maybe, but you can be damn sure if the boot had been on the other foot they wouldn't have missed a trick in sticking it to us. We're sorely lacking in the dark arts sometimes at Easter Road.

Who knows, that type of attitude may filter down through the players and managers as well that we really don't like them very much, and the fixture might get elevated in the players and manager's mind as beyond "just another game".

[Andy74]

So you’re either making excuses or saying they have a better side than us? Which one is it?

It’s not a one off either, why talk about margins when they same margins have came into play all your life in these games? Is it just one massive **** off coincidence aye?

It isn’t simplistic black and white. We all watched the game and seen what actually happened.

In key moments their goalkeeper saved them and their striker scored the penalty. Yes both those players are probably better and certainly better paid than ours.

The rest of it though it was down to margins. We might have won, we didn’t.

It’s usually better to see why that was on the day than use meaningless phrases that can’t actually be seen having been played out in the game.

[#2 Double Tap]

I hope the club get the importance of losing yesterday.

It could be the difference between five people and twenty five people going into the new shop at the gyle for instance and it’s not exaggerating.

I’ll admit, I ****ing hate hearts, I genuinely seriously can’t stand them. We never turn up against them when it really matters.

We swap the teams around yesterday and they win 4-0 or something. Ross doesn’t seem to care about it being more important. I would have Yogi in as his number two.

Yogi as number 2, Mixu, Jack and latapy as coaches, ian murray and kevin thompson in charge of the u21's,
Just cant decide who should be manager! would love to give big frank another crack at it.

how amazing would that backroom staff be :)

nostalgia

[HappyAsHellas]

Magennis and Nisbet had to score in the first half and If Boyle had played people in at the right time we could have won by 2 or 3 goals. We didn't, and we missed a penalty and they didn't. Had we done the right thing and taken our chances then this thread would be about laughing at them. Given that this is correct as I see it, what more prep are you expecting?

[Mr_F]

Biggest game of the season. Only derby we might get. To treat it like just another game is the reason we have the worst derby record in football. If it’s going to change we need to get rid of everyone with that attitude. We’re such good losers too. Pathetic

[Stevie Reid]

I hope the club get the importance of losing yesterday.

It could be the difference between five people and twenty five people going into the new shop at the gyle for instance and it’s not exaggerating.

I’ll admit, I ****ing hate hearts, I genuinely seriously can’t stand them. We never turn up against them when it really matters.

We swap the teams around yesterday and they win 4-0 or something. Ross doesn’t seem to care about it being more important. I would have Yogi in as his number two.

I love Yogi but his derby record as manager is P 4 W 0 D 2 L 2

[hibsbollah]

Sadly, we cant even manage to treat it like any other game. Nisbit has scored all his pens and 2 much harder headers this season. If he treats it like any other game, we win easily.

You have no idea what his intentions were at that pen. He could have been going for bottom right, made a bad connection and sent it high by accident. It happens. His header was a decent effort, would be a goal 9 times out of 10, Gordon makes the great save. It happens. Doidge misses his header through bad timing. It happens. And your last sentence just makes no sense.

[Lago]

Well whatever happen yesterday they better get it out their systems pretty quick, based on the Celtc v Dons semi I've just watched Hibs better be prepared for plenty rough & tumble when they play Friday night, perhaps Boyle might even try to beat his opponent.

[MWHIBBIES]

Biggest game of the season. Only derby we might get. To treat it like just another game is the reason we have the worst derby record in football. If it’s going to change we need to get rid of everyone with that attitude. We’re such good losers too. Pathetic

This is absolute pish.

[MWHIBBIES]

You have no idea what his intentions were at that pen. He could have been going for bottom right, made a bad connection and sent it high by accident. It happens. His header was a decent effort, would be a goal 9 times out of 10, Gordon makes the great save. It happens. Doidge misses his header through bad timing. It happens. And your last sentence just makes no sense.

Lot of ifs and could haves and maybes. Reality is, Nisbit, who has been quality all season, turned into James Collins more rubbish brother when it mattered most. He'll bounce back but yesterday was just rubbish from him.

[Tyler Durden]

Did we show a lack of aggression or fight though? I would say the number of daft fouls we gave away and the lack of discipline around that was one of my biggest peeves last night. I can recall Newell squaring up to Halliday in the 1st half as the one real flashpoint in terms of aggression. I didn't really feel Hearts looked more up for it than us albeit I was angry with our performance.

So far the replies are we need to do something different but little specifics as to what. I don't believe someone like Darren McGregor would leave the players in any doubt about what a derby means. We do have a mental block in derbies but I don't agree it's because we treat them lightly.

I think we did lack aggression. There is winning your individual battles and I would agree we didn’t lack for fight there. But more generally we should have been starting the game with intensity and aggression to get in front early and get on the front foot.

We also should have been prepared to contest every decision and give Hearts a bit of needle. Jamie Walker has about 3 fouls in short period in the first half, yet no Hibs player is at the ref to complain or put him under pressure. Skip to the 2nd half and we should had a free kick twice in the build to Hearts goal.... the ref just shrugs it off. If Hibs were more professional and in his ear that might have gone our way.

We also let Halliday, Haring, Naismith just settle into their game rather than get in their faces. Maybe give them a dull one and take a booking? But no we were too soft and played our normal game. This is the lack of nous and aggression and intensity that we see time and again. Nice guys.

[The 90+2]

This is absolute pish.

Who has worse out of interest? And don’t say Real Madrid and Getafe or something similar.

[MWHIBBIES]

Who has worse out of interest? And don’t say Real Madrid and Getafe or something similar.

I'd imagine many teams. Espanyol. Atletico didn't beat Real in 15 years. 1860 Munich. These are teams who are dominated by rivals who win titles and cups all the time.

[hibsbollah]

Who has worse out of interest? And don’t say Real Madrid and Getafe or something similar.

Port Vale in the potteries derby.

[660]

If Kev tucks away his penalty, all the slavers on here would be talking about how incredible we were and how the mentality has changed bla bla. That would be as inaccurate as the drivel getting spouted on here atm.

[The 90+2]

Port Vale in the potteries derby.

🤣

[The 90+2]

If Kev tucks away his penalty, all the slavers on here would be talking about how incredible we were and how the mentality has changed bla bla. That would be as inaccurate as the drivel getting spouted on here atm.

Aye and if Keith or Jacko tucked away sitters we wouldn’t have sat at 22 in a row.

[The 90+2]

I'd imagine many teams. Espanyol. Atletico didn't beat Real in 15 years. 1860 Munich. These are teams who are dominated by rivals who win titles and cups all the time.

You could at least have one certainty when saying rubbish tbh.

[flash]

If you were so sure how it would pan out why was your pre match prediction 4-1 to us then?

Probably because he changes like the weather. If we had won he would have been the biggest cheerleader on here.

[660]

Aye and if Keith or Jacko tucked away sitters we wouldn’t have sat at 22 in a row.

Oh are we at 22 in a row or are you just talking pish as usual.

[The 90+2]

Probably because he changes like the weather. If we had won he would have been the biggest cheerleader on here.

Too right. But we didn’t. We lost when it mattered, again. It’s probably being called a football supporter.

[The 90+2]

Oh are we at 22 in a row or are you just talking pish as usual.

No but I guaranteed you sat through that or through Butcher or Fenton trying to justify it, saying people are pant wetters or talking pish 👍

[660]

No but I guaranteed you sat through that or through Butcher or Fenton trying to justify it, saying people are pant wetters or talking pish 👍

What do butcher, fenlon or alex Miller have to do with the current hibs team?

[The 90+2]

What do butcher, fenlon or alex Miller have to do with the current hibs team?

The excuses for them is completely similar and so is the insults to people that are hurting.

[MWHIBBIES]

You could at least have one certainty when saying rubbish tbh.

Espanyol, thats a certainty.

It is rubbish, we obviously don't have the worst derby record in the world.

[The 90+2]

Espanyol, thats a certainty.

It is rubbish, we obviously don't have the worst derby record in the world.

Aye true. Sorry, I’m arguing for arguing sake now.

[jeffers]

If Kev tucks away his penalty, all the slavers on here would be talking about how incredible we were and how the mentality has changed bla bla. That would be as inaccurate as the drivel getting spouted on here atm.

I certainly wouldn’t have, my opinion would have been we’d needed a very dubious penalty to beat a team who had only played a third of the competitive fixtures we had. Probably our best chance we’ll ever get to give them a real doing in a Hampden semi and we failed to turn up and blew it big time.

[hibsbollah]

I certainly wouldn’t have, my opinion would have been we’d needed a very dubious penalty to beat a team who had only played a third of the competitive fixtures we had. Probably our best chance we’ll ever get to give them a real doing in a Hampden semi and we failed to turn up and blew it big time.

His point is a good one, its all fine margins, a bawhair here or a bawhair there, i dont think theres any psychological weakness or us getting bullied, sometimes it looks like that because previous Hibs players got bullied, we just never technically did what was needed in key moments. Same as us knocking them out the cup in 2016 when it went our way. Luck always plays a part in these things too.

Doesnt make it hurt any less but i think thats the reality.

[Smartie]

What do butcher, fenlon or alex Miller have to do with the current hibs team?

They all lost massive derbies?

Relegation party, 1-5, Wayne Foster and last night.

[Newhaven]

...and that's the answer in a nutshell to the OP's question.

"Meek" is how the club as a whole from the Directors downwards engage with them.

Their record against us feeds their cockiness and gives them an advantage in this fixture, but you can counter that in other ways, such as not sacking your match announcer for daring to play a cheeky song that references their tax dodging; or for a more recent example of when the league was called and everyone in Scottish football was having their tuppence worth about how unfair and unjust it was on poor old put-upon HMFC.

Everyone had their say except us of course, we kept our usual "dignified silence"...If I were Dempster, I would have been publically suggesting that if league reconstruction were to take place then the bottom team still had to take their medicine and go down. The reaction from that mob would've been something to behold - petty maybe, but you can be damn sure if the boot had been on the other foot they wouldn't have missed a trick in sticking it to us. We're sorely lacking in the dark arts sometimes at Easter Road.

Who knows, that type of attitude may filter down through the players and managers as well that we really don't like them very much, and the fixture might get elevated in the players and manager's mind as beyond "just another game".

Well done on the best post to sum up the derby situation and how the teams approach differs

:agree::agree:

Their approach is to take every single chance to twist the knife into us whether it be from ex players at half time (from the 5-1 game also) to hassling refs and squealing for every single foul no matter how trivial.

They get what it means for the club and the players not to mention the fans to brag about it for months. Our hibs way of dignified silence shows us as weak, timid and happy not to rock the boat.

[Sir David Gray]

Biggest game of the season. Only derby we might get. To treat it like just another game is the reason we have the worst derby record in football. If it’s going to change we need to get rid of everyone with that attitude. We’re such good losers too. Pathetic

We definitely don't have the worst derby record in football but out of the derbies where the two clubs are otherwise so evenly matched, we must be up there as having the worst record.

[The 90+2]

We definitely don't have the worst derby record in football but out of the derbies where the two clubs are otherwise so evenly matched, we must be up there as having the worst record.

Dundee are worse (just). Certainly in Britain apart from Dundee when it comes to two same sized clubs we are the worst.

[Sir David Gray]

Dundee are worse (just). Certainly in Britain apart from Dundee when it comes to two same sized clubs we are the worst.

Have Dundee Utd won more derbies at Dens Park than Dundee?

[The 90+2]

Have Dundee Utd won more derbies at Dens Park than Dundee?

Nah. Away back under the covers. Cheers for that 🤣

[h1bs4life]

Ross has been at them as a coach so he must have inside info as to how they treat derbies.
Do you think Celtic , Rangers treat a Derby the same as any other game. In the build up to derbies I take it there players are constantly reminded how important it is to win a Derby .Whether that is showing videos of Derby wins , former players coming in talking about games reminding how most things are forgotten if you win the derby. It can make the ****iest player a hero if they score in the derby.
They were more fired up than we were , the 1st tackle in the 1st couple of minutes from Boyce on Porteous should have been a booking no one nipped at the referee . Walker pulling the jersey of a Hibs player another booking we say nowt and 2 further fouls still say nowt.That wouldn't have happened with a Gray , McGregor or Bartley in the team
They complained about every Hibs tackle constantly at the referee .
Do all those who are just brushing it off live in Edinburgh and have to listen to it all.
Even after the last league Derby win they were quiet about Derby's and had been right up to this game
Yet again when Hibs and the fans are getting closer it comes to the chance to knock them down we bottle it .
Bar the 2016 cup game when it comes to really important games we are found wanting .
After Semi final 2006 we really tried to sort it out by giving the clown in goals a 3 year contract.
After 2012 we let the same manager leads us to a hammering against Malmö and another Derby defeat. I don't think any other club in Scotland would have kept the same manager after a result like that certainly not them. Our captain / leader was part of the 2012 team.

[Sir David Gray]

Nah. Away back under the covers. Cheers for that 🤣

Sorry!

[Bobby's Cinema]

Ross has been at them as a coach so he must have inside info as to how they treat derbies.
Do you think Celtic , Rangers treat a Derby the same as any other game. In the build up to derbies I take it there players are constantly reminded how important it is to win a Derby .Whether that is showing videos of Derby wins , former players coming in talking about games reminding how most things are forgotten if you win the derby. It can make the ****iest player a hero if they score in the derby.
They were more fired up than we were , the 1st tackle in the 1st couple of minutes from Boyce on Porteous should have been a booking no one nipped at the referee . Walker pulling the jersey of a Hibs player another booking we say nowt and 2 further fouls still say nowt.That wouldn't have happened with a Gray , McGregor or Bartley in the team
They complained about every Hibs tackle constantly at the referee .
Do all those who are just brushing it off live in Edinburgh and have to listen to it all.
Even after the last league Derby win they were quiet about Derby's and had been right up to this game
Yet again when Hibs and the fans are getting closer it comes to the chance to knock them down we bottle it .
Bar the 2016 cup game when it comes to really important games we are found wanting .
After Semi final 2006 we really tried to sort it out by giving the clown in goals a 3 year contract.
After 2012 we let the same manager leads us to a hammering against Malmö and another Derby defeat. I don't think any other club in Scotland would have kept the same manager after a result like that certainly not them. Our captain / leader was part of the 2012 team.
How has this guy not been launched yet.

[h1bs4life]

How has this guy not been launched yet.


Is that the best you can come up with? Launched for not being happy about loosing yet another Derby.
Do you actually go to games when crowds are allowed on do you watch all games on the Hibs net match threads.
If I could arsed looking at you post history I suspect you would have difficulty finding Easter Road probably one of the mouths on the match threads.

[Onion]

Sadly, we cant even manage to treat it like any other game. Nisbit has scored all his pens and 2 much harder headers this season. If he treats it like any other game, we win easily.

Good strikers are those that don't let bad luck or poor performance get in the way of scoring goals/winners. Nisbet should have scored with the header in the first half. Whether it was a great save or a bad miss is irrelevant. He was handed the perfect opportunity to put that right with the penalty, and he bottled it. He should have slammed that away with relish. Contrast with Jason Cummings stupid pen miss in the 2016 semi with DUFC. When given the chance to make amends, he didn't flinch and won the game for us.

[B.H.F.C]

Good strikers are those that don't let bad luck or poor performance get in the way of scoring goals/winners. Nisbet should have scored with the header in the first half. Whether it was a great save or a bad miss is irrelevant. He was handed the perfect opportunity to put that right with the penalty, and he bottled it. He should have slammed that away with relish. Contrast with Jason Cummings stupid pen miss in the 2016 semi with DUFC. When given the chance to make amends, he didn't flinch and won the game for us.

I think that’s a bit harsh on Nisbet. He had a bad night, it happens. There are far better players than him who’ve missed penalties in far bigger games.

I’m a critical as anyone about performance, attitude and so on against that lot. Nisbet is a good player though and I think he will go on to score plenty goals for Hibs, in big games at some point as well. He needs to bounce back from that get us in to Europe and/or do the business back at Hampden between now and May.

[eastterrace]

Ross has been at them as a coach so he must have inside info as to how they treat derbies.
Do you think Celtic , Rangers treat a Derby the same as any other game. In the build up to derbies I take it there players are constantly reminded how important it is to win a Derby .Whether that is showing videos of Derby wins , former players coming in talking about games reminding how most things are forgotten if you win the derby. It can make the ****iest player a hero if they score in the derby.
They were more fired up than we were , the 1st tackle in the 1st couple of minutes from Boyce on Porteous should have been a booking no one nipped at the referee . Walker pulling the jersey of a Hibs player another booking we say nowt and 2 further fouls still say nowt.That wouldn't have happened with a Gray , McGregor or Bartley in the team
They complained about every Hibs tackle constantly at the referee .
Do all those who are just brushing it off live in Edinburgh and have to listen to it all.
Even after the last league Derby win they were quiet about Derby's and had been right up to this game
Yet again when Hibs and the fans are getting closer it comes to the chance to knock them down we bottle it .
Bar the 2016 cup game when it comes to really important games we are found wanting .
After Semi final 2006 we really tried to sort it out by giving the clown in goals a 3 year contract.
After 2012 we let the same manager leads us to a hammering against Malmö and another Derby defeat. I don't think any other club in Scotland would have kept the same manager after a result like that certainly not them. Our captain / leader was part of the 2012 team. the part about them being reminded how the derbies are everything to them is correct. I was on holiday in Spain and met billy brown in a bar and we got talking about this and he said that him and Jim Jeffries when they signed new players they always reminded them that the derby is the main game of the season and installed in them from the start. Wonder what we say when we sign new players about the derby.

[Smartie]

We've maybe also been a bit guilty of reading too much into Paul Hanlon's about advising Josh Doig, without having any sense of context.

Maybe Josh is a nervous wee chap and was *****ing his pants about the idea of playing in such a big game. Under those circumstances is it in any way unacceptable for an experienced pro like Hanlon to advise him that he should just treat it like any other game?

The opposite possibly also being true. If he was slouching about the place, pissing about, acting complacent about playing against a guff Championship side then the advice might be "listen - this game is huge, don't be taking them lightly. I know what it's like to be the hero in these games and I know what it's like when you're on the wrong end of a stinker. Don't dare be the one who lets us down against this mob - this is Hearts, we don't f*****g lose to them" etc

?

[lord bunberry]

We've maybe also been a bit guilty of reading too much into Paul Hanlon's about advising Josh Doig, without having any sense of context.

Maybe Josh is a nervous wee chap and was *****ing his pants about the idea of playing in such a big game. Under those circumstances is it in any way unacceptable for an experienced pro like Hanlon to advise him that he should just treat it like any other game?

The opposite possibly also being true. If he was slouching about the place, pissing about, acting complacent about playing against a guff Championship side then the advice might be "listen - this game is huge, don't be taking them lightly. I know what it's like to be the hero in these games and I know what it's like when you're on the wrong end of a stinker. Don't dare be the one who lets us down against this mob - this is Hearts, we don't f*****g lose to them" etc

?
That’s exactly how I saw it. People are reading far too much into what Hanlon said, you wouldn’t want a young player being a bag of nerves for a big game.

[Magpie]

Hearts have people like Jim Jefferies and Gary Locke around the club who know how important the games against us are and will no doubt be drilling that into the players from day one of their arrival. Levein was a poor manager but he knew how to drill his players up for derbies too.

[G B Young]

Since the late 60s/70s when we almost never lost a derby, I've always had the impression that by and large the fixture means more to Hearts. We've had a couple of good spells under McLeish plus Stubbs/Lennon but it seems illogical that two clubs which are generally pretty evenly matched should not have a pretty much similar derby record.

Why does it mean more to them though? Why would Hibs not be every bit as bothered as Hearts about winning a derby? It's pretty baffling.

[Itsnoteasy]

Hearts have people like Jim Jefferies and Gary Locke around the club who know how important the games against us are and will no doubt be drilling that into the players from day one of their arrival. Levein was a poor manager but he knew how to drill his players up for derbies too.

Also when playing them at Tynie they bring out all the old favourite. Robbo, Hartley, De Vries blah blah blah & Scott Wilson will ask them at half time how good it is to ram it up us & it gets the Hibs fans all noised up. We do the Happy Hibby half time draw.

[Magpie]

Also when playing them at Tynie they bring out all the old favourite. Robbo, Hartley, De Vries blah blah blah & Scott Wilson will ask them at half time how good it is to ram it up us & it gets the Hibs fans all noised up. We do the Happy Hibby half time draw.

😂

[matty_f]

To be fair to Paul I think it was in relation to what advice he would give younger players in the team like Doig. To avoid them getting too tense think it is reasonable advice to be honest. Last night Hearts were not anymore up for it than we were. Game was down to individual errors or pieces of skill.
Spot on. What’s he meant to say to the boy? And are we really thinking that Doig, Hanlon, and everyone else in the squad don’t know exactly what’s as stake or what the game means?

Some of the stuff getting posted just now is utter, inane, drivel.

[matty_f]

Since the late 60s/70s when we almost never lost a derby, I've always had the impression that by and large the fixture means more to Hearts. We've had a couple of good spells under McLeish plus Stubbs/Lennon but it seems illogical that two clubs which are generally pretty evenly matched should not have a pretty much similar derby record.

Why does it mean more to them though? Why would Hibs not be every bit as bothered as Hearts about winning a derby? It's pretty baffling.

Since admin it is pretty evenly matched. Pre-admin they spent their way to a huge advantage over us.

[Yorkshire HFC]

Ofcourse they have to treat every game the same.

In the week before the game they need to be training just as hard and just as smart as if they were playing Hamilton or Celtic.

They are professional players and management - not fans. They need to give 100% in every game. And I don't think you can give more than 100%.

They shouldn't be doing something different in their preparation just because it's a game against Hearts - if Ross knows something that'll make the team better then I want him using it every week - not once a season.

[matty_f]

It isn’t simplistic black and white. We all watched the game and seen what actually happened.

In key moments their goalkeeper saved them and their striker scored the penalty. Yes both those players are probably better and certainly better paid than ours.

The rest of it though it was down to margins. We might have won, we didn’t.

It’s usually better to see why that was on the day than use meaningless phrases that can’t actually be seen having been played out in the game.

:agree:

[matty_f]

We definitely don't have the worst derby record in football but out of the derbies where the two clubs are otherwise so evenly matched, we must be up there as having the worst record.

If we select the only criteria that makes us the worst then we are the worst.

**** me, man.

[Magpie]

At the end of the day we bottled it.

[Sir David Gray]

If we select the only criteria that makes us the worst then we are the worst.

**** me, man.

If you had seen the original post I replied to, I was actually dismissing the notion that we somehow had the worst derby record in football.

I'm not sure comparing our record v Hearts against Getafe's record v Real Madrid or Notts County's record v Nottingham Forest is quite comparing like for like. All I was meaning was out of the derbies where the two teams are otherwise so evenly matched, I believe our record v Hearts is a bit of an anomaly. There can't be many instances where the away team has won more derbies than the home team for example.

A wee bit overly aggressive at the end, no?

[Smartie]

If you had seen the original post I replied to, I was actually dismissing the notion that we somehow had the worst derby record in football.

I'm not sure comparing our record v Hearts against Getafe's record v Real Madrid or Notts County's record v Nottingham Forest is quite comparing like for like. All I was meaning was out of the derbies where the two teams are otherwise so evenly matched, I believe our record v Hearts is a bit of an anomaly. There can't be many instances where the away team has won more derbies than the home team for example.

A wee bit overly aggressive at the end, no?

I thought it was a surprisingly direct invitation.

[matty_f]

If you had seen the original post I replied to, I was actually dismissing the notion that we somehow had the worst derby record in football.

I'm not sure comparing our record v Hearts against Getafe's record v Real Madrid or Notts County's record v Nottingham Forest is quite comparing like for like. All I was meaning was out of the derbies where the two teams are otherwise so evenly matched, I believe our record v Hearts is a bit of an anomaly. There can't be many instances where the away team has won more derbies than the home team for example.

A wee bit overly aggressive at the end, no?

Don’t think so. Overly exasperated, maybe.

[Daydreamer]

Since admin it is pretty evenly matched. Pre-admin they spent their way to a huge advantage over us.

One of the biggest problems in the future is going to be the difference between FOH and HSL. It is 6 times more to Hearts as what HSL put into Hibs. That is the difference of another 5 top class players on £4k a week. I cannot believe that any Hibs supporter who can afford it has a subscription of £10 a month. Even if we could sign up another three thousand who dont need to be supporters just fans that maybe see Hibs a couple of times a season would be wonderful. If not derby wins will be few and far between in the future. £10 a month is only 33pence a day Get signed up now or you will start feeling like how you felt on Saturday night a lot more in the future.

[matty_f]

One of the biggest problems in the future is going to be the difference between FOH and HSL. It is 6 times more to Hearts as what HSL put into Hibs. That is the difference of another 5 top class players on £4k a week. I cannot believe that any Hibs supporter who can afford it has a subscription of £10 a month. Even if we could sign up another three thousand who dont need to be supporters just fans that maybe see Hibs a couple of times a season would be wonderful. If not derby wins will be few and far between in the future. £10 a month is only 33pence a day Get signed up now or you will start feeling like how you felt on Saturday night a lot more in the future.

Can't argue with that.

[Pagan Hibernia]

It’s only 3 years since we had them in our pocket. They feared every game at Easter road then and we went into games at tynecastle expecting not to lose. It doesn’t take much to change the mentality, a couple of derby wins next season (maybe even this season if we draw them in the cups) and things will feel very different.

ive been devastated these past 48 hours. But it’s over and life goes on. Jack Ross, the players, and us need to use this pain as motivation next time we meet the maroon crap in whatever competition it is. They’re not winning a SC final against Celtic. Take comfort in that. And when we do come out on top on a derby again let’s enjoy every second of it. Twist the knife.

[Fergos]

I think we did lack aggression. There is winning your individual battles and I would agree we didn’t lack for fight there. But more generally we should have been starting the game with intensity and aggression to get in front early and get on the front foot.

We also should have been prepared to contest every decision and give Hearts a bit of needle. Jamie Walker has about 3 fouls in short period in the first half, yet no Hibs player is at the ref to complain or put him under pressure. Skip to the 2nd half and we should had a free kick twice in the build to Hearts goal.... the ref just shrugs it off. If Hibs were more professional and in his ear that might have gone our way.

We also let Halliday, Haring, Naismith just settle into their game rather than get in their faces. Maybe give them a dull one and take a booking? But no we were too soft and played our normal game. This is the lack of nous and aggression and intensity that we see time and again. Nice guys.

Totally agree, it’s the wee bits n pieces like this that help galvanise and forge that win at all costs mentality, a lot for me, and I’m not criticising PH, has to come from the Captain.

GGTTH