Dundee Utd - administration threat.

[H18 SFR]

My Dundee Utd mate at work here in Ayr has text me to say that they are trying to restructure debt and cut wages as well as agree deferrals to stave off administration. Their owner is expected to got public tomorrow with it all.

[Vault Boy]

The 20% wage cuts and other proposals have come out in the news tonight. Seems like a very dodgy situation, especially given their summer activity. Hibs accounted for their spending with a significant trimming of the squad, player sales, and strong season ticket backing, as well as HSL contributions increasing by thousands each month. United seem to have brought in some fairly pricey players without really preparing for it.

Reading the interview with their owner would absolutely fill me with dread as a United fan. He ignites no confidence whatsoever and appears to be genuinely stumped as to how to deal with the situation. Potless and clueless, a dangerous combination.

We're lucky to have Ron Gordon.

[easty]

Seems like very bad financial planning. They could/should have sold Shankland over the summer surely?

[Del Boy]

Owner has done an interview tonight, doesn’t sound much different from what many other clubs have done to be honest- negotiating wage cuts/deferrals with players and staff. Unfortunately most clubs are going to have to do this as they are generating minimal income at the moment.

[Billy Whizz]

Owner has done an interview tonight, doesn’t sound much different from what many other clubs have done to be honest- negotiating wage cuts/deferrals with players and staff. Unfortunately most clubs are going to have to do this as they are generating minimal income at the moment.

I’m not sure how clubs budgeted for this season, but presume the likes of United, were looking to get fans in, sometime early in 2021

[Andy74]

Owner has done an interview tonight, doesn’t sound much different from what many other clubs have done to be honest- negotiating wage cuts/deferrals with players and staff. Unfortunately most clubs are going to have to do this as they are generating minimal income at the moment.

Yeah no different from the rest of us. We are all trying to walk the right line in cutting costs but being as competitive as we can be too.

[BILLYHIBS]

Did not realise they had signed Marc McNulty :confused:

He will be on healthy wedge as part of his loan agreement I would imagine ?

[bingo70]

Did not realise they had signed Marc McNulty :confused:

He will be on healthy wedge as part of his loan agreement I would imagine ?

Yes but if they finish one league placing higher because of his goals it will probably pay for him.

There’s a balancing act to be had, running the squad down to its bare bones is a false economy.

[Andy74]

Did not realise they had signed Marc McNulty :confused:

He will be on healthy wedge as part of his loan agreement I would imagine ?

This is the same thing that was levelled at us. Up to them to balance what they can cut and what areas they need to build.

[Diclonius]

Another club spending silly money they don't have for short-term success. It was inevitable.

[DH1875]

Did not realise they had signed Marc McNulty :confused:

He will be on healthy wedge as part of his loan agreement I would imagine ?

£5k per week apparently. Were we paying that much for him?
Are they not just doing what many other clubs are doing, including us :confused:

[BILLYHIBS]

Yes but if they finish one league placing higher because of his goals it will probably pay for him.

There’s a balancing act to be had, running the squad down to its bare bones is a false economy.

Not at the figure I am hearing United are allegedly paying per week as their part of the loan deal for a player that did not look fit the last time I clapped eyes on him but then again that was six months ago

[weecounty hibby]

Shared stadium soon I suspect. Dundee City within 10 years also a possibility. Both clubs struggling, American owners, small fan base getting smaller, no paying fans in the near future.

[BILLYHIBS]

£5k per week apparently. Were we paying that much for him?
Are they not just doing what many other clubs are doing, including us :confused:
We have cut our cloth accordingly under Wee Ron during the current pandemic

We have trimmed our squad signed most of our players the only loanees I can think of are Jamie Murphy and the big goalie

[IWasThere2016]

Large debts. Cost base far too high.

Worth a bet to go down in my opinion.

[Spike Mandela]

I would imagine there are going to be quite a few horrific balance sheets at the end of this season at most clubs.

[DH1875]

We have cut our cloth accordingly under Wee Ron during the current pandemic

We have trimmed our squad signed most of our players the only loanees I can think of are Jamie Murphy and the big goalie

So our players didn't/haven't taken a pay cut?

[Ringothedog]

So our players didn't/haven't taken a pay cut?

Our situation and what we did earlier this year has nothing to do with Dundee United and their situation now. You are comparing apples with pears. We reduced our playing staff, sold a few of them and reinvested in new players and are running a smaller squad of players, there where wage deferrals agreed . Dundee United are spending money they don’t have in an effort to make an impact in the top league. Our wage bill will not be double theirs and we will easily have more than double their income Hibs will be okay.Dundee United, maybe not

[Vault Boy]

There's no issue with them trying to cut costs, having discussions about wage reductions is a reality of this **** situation we're all in, and United aren't the first, nor will they be the last.

The concern is that their position does seem to be more alarming than some other clubs. This seems to be a very late reaction to a situation that was unfolding months ago. The owner has essentially said he can't put any money into the club and doesn't know how they will cover their losses. Maybe it's just a bad interview, maybe it's being portrayed in a more alarmist manner than was intended at source, but until that's clarified, it makes for worrying reading for United fans IMO.

[CMurdoch]

There's no issue with them trying to cut costs, having discussions about wage reductions is a reality of this **** situation we're all in, and United aren't the first, nor will they be the last.

The concern is that their position does seem to be more alarming than some other clubs. This seems to be a very late reaction to a situation that was unfolding months ago. The owner has essentially said he can't put any money into the club and doesn't know how they will cover their losses. Maybe it's just a bad interview, maybe it's being portrayed in a more alarmist manner than was intended at source, but until that's clarified, it makes for worrying reading for United fans IMO.

It seems idiotic that they brought in McNulty late at circa £5k a week when it was already apparent that they had more than enough quality to keep them out of the reaches of Hamilton & St Mirren AND that there was no chance of fans attending games in large numbers this year. Given the pandemic, this season for them should solely have been about staying in the league and nothing else. We don't know all the facts but getting McNulty in when they did looks like reckless behaviour at first glance.


On second thoughts Ogren and his side kick are not stupid. They are looking for a bit of the deferral/wage reduction action. However, signing McNulty was still idiotic though!

[BILLYHIBS]

So our players didn't/haven't taken a pay cut?
Didn’t say that

We have cut our cloth

I still wouldn’t pay McNulty 5k a week

[green&left]

My Dundee Utd mate at work here in Ayr has text me to say that they are trying to restructure debt and cut wages as well as agree deferrals to stave off administration. Their owner is expected to got public tomorrow with it all.

Wouldn't surprise me. They not make a £3.5m loss lost season?

[Oscar T Grouch]

This the same Dundee Utd that was paying wages at 114% of their turnover in their last accounts? They’re just cutting wages now?

[Ozyhibby]

Most clubs expected fans to be in stadiums by now otherwise they would not have done things like this.

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/season-ticket-guarantee-pledge

There will be clubs who go to the wall soon.


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[green&left]

Most clubs expected fans to be in stadiums by now otherwise they would not have done things like this.

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/season-ticket-guarantee-pledge

There will be clubs who go to the wall soon.


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Daft as **** from them. They've back tracked though havn't they? They're now classing streams as being at tynie so paying little to no compo out.

[lucky]

The wage cuts are apparently not for new signings. If true that won’t go down well in the changing room. Football players at all levels are going to have to take cuts especially if there is no fans this season. United look in a mess but hopefully they can cut their cloth. I hate for them and Dundee to merge. The two of them are probably the 6th and 7th biggest clubs in Scotland.

[scoopyboy]

I was told at the time they brought McNulty in as they were expecting to sell Shankland.

When our window closed he hadn't moved but I thought he might still have gone to a Championship side as their window stayed open for a further week.

It may be that a move for him broke down and this is why they are now struggling.

[Keith_M]

Daft as **** from them. They've back tracked though havn't they? They're now classing streams as being at tynie so paying little to no compo out.


They made an appeal to ST holders to agree to that but they're still committed to the original deal if the fans don't sign up for it.

[calumhibee1]

Get a bid in for Shankland.

[Ozyhibby]

They made an appeal to ST holders to agree to that but they're still committed to the original deal if the fans don't sign up for it.

I would think that each individual fan would need to agree to it. Will be very tempting for many who might be doing it tough by next summer to accept that they don’t need to pay for a season ticket next season at least.


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[Ozyhibby]

Get a bid in for Shankland.

Absolutely. Nisbet’s Celtic clause is almost certain to be activated in January and we’ll need a replacement.


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[calumhibee1]

Absolutely. Nisbet’s Celtic clause is almost certainly to be activated in January and we’ll need a replacement.


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I actually just looked at his record this season. He’s been pish since getting back to the top tier. I take it back, couldn’t lace Nisbets boots!

[EI255]

To be honest, it's gonna start to get very bad for every club. This is just the start.

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[jacomo]

Our situation and what we did earlier this year has nothing to do with Dundee United and their situation now. You are comparing apples with pears. We reduced our playing staff, sold a few of them and reinvested in new players and are running a smaller squad of players, there where wage deferrals agreed . Dundee United are spending money they don’t have in an effort to make an impact in the top league. Our wage bill will not be double theirs and we will easily have more than double their income Hibs will be okay.Dundee United, maybe not


I agree.

Signing McNulty on loan and then asking players to take wage cuts leaves a sour taste. Existing members of the squad might well question the decision making of those at the top.

Also, are Dundee Utd not making anything from ST sales and PPV? They had good attendances last season - surely that goodwill and excitement about being back in the top flight should mean decent audience numbers?

[Brightside]

I wouldnt rush to slate them. They have the same balancing act as we do and every other team. Even Rangers have made redundancies in the coaching staff. (That wont be reported in the Record of course)

[JohnMcM]

They will be in a frenzy of joy over on kickback about this.

[Lendo]

Get a bid in for Shankland.

100% this

[kaimendhibs]

Im sure Tom English will be all over this [emoji102][emoji102]

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[King Cosell]

Absolutely. Nisbet’s Celtic clause is almost certain to be activated in January and we’ll need a replacement.


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Is there any truth in this 'Celtic Clause' or is it just Jambo Kickback nonsense?

[HoboHarry]

Absolutely. Nisbet’s Celtic clause is almost certain to be activated in January and we’ll need a replacement.


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Celtic clause?

[ElginHibbie]

Celtic clause?

To make themselves feel better some Hearts have said the only reason he went to Hibs instead of Hearts is we agreed to sell him to Celtic on the cheap if they come calling

[nonshinyfinish]

To make themselves feel better some Hearts have said the only reason he went to Hibs instead of Hearts is we agreed to sell him to Celtic on the cheap if they come calling

Not just some Hearts – IIRC it was from the pen of Dazajambo, a gold-plated guarantee of accuracy.

[Oscar T Grouch]

I wouldnt rush to slate them. They have the same balancing act as we do and every other team. Even Rangers have made redundancies in the coaching staff. (That wont be reported in the Record of course)

Not really, most teams don't spend over 100% of turnover on wages. Those that do, historically go bust! They've made this rod for their own back and got caught out with Covid too which is unlucky but most is their own fault.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/dundee-uniteds-wage-turnover-ratio-mammoth-133-cent-1404164

[HoboHarry]

To make themselves feel better some Hearts have said the only reason he went to Hibs instead of Hearts is we agreed to sell him to Celtic on the cheap if they come calling
Ah, so a lot of ***** then. :greengrin

[0762]

Not really, most teams don't spend over 100% of turnover on wages. Those that do, historically go bust! They've made this rod for their own back and got caught out with Covid too which is unlucky but most is their own fault.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/dundee-uniteds-wage-turnover-ratio-mammoth-133-cent-1404164

Agree with you. Ogden has clearly been sold a dream of get rich quick with European qualification and player transfers sold to him by the guy who brokered the deal for him and is now their Director of Football (a former Agent). An agent I know said United are overpaying to get players and that Shankland outside the Old Firm is the highest paid player in Scotland. Also said that United's backroom staff which includes the Director of Football's son is way too big for a club of United's size and that the DoF has filled the place with friends and former clients.

Looking like the blue touch paper has been lit and the place is about to go boom again! you would have thought that after the mess that Steven Thompson had made of their Club they wouldn't go down the over spending route again.

[McD]

I actually just looked at his record this season. He’s been pish since getting back to the top tier. I take it back, couldn’t lace Nisbets boots!


Yet called up to Scotland squads all season while Nisbet hasn't had a sniff so far:rolleyes:

[CentreLine]

Get a bid in for Shankland.

To be honest I think we got the better deal with Nisbet

[calumhibee1]

To be honest I think we got the better deal with Nisbet

Absolutely. Shankland is decent but I genuinely think both our strikers are better.

[jacomo]

Yet called up to Scotland squads all season while Nisbet hasn't had a sniff so far:rolleyes:


Nisbet wasn’t getting the same attention last season for Dunfermline. Shankland had an excellent season. It’s all good and I’m sure our boy will get a chance sooner rather than later.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Shankland surely can't be the highest paid outside the old firm. He was at Ayr. Naismith aye, shankland mibbes naw

[H18 SFR]

Shankland surely can't be the highest paid outside the old firm. He was at Ayr. Naismith aye, shankland mibbes naw

I think they must be taking into account his signings on fee which was apparently huge.

[truehibernian]

I'd test them in January with a bid for Louis Appere :agree: different position but reminds me very much of John McGinn with his workrate, enthusiasm and energy. Would make a great attacking midfield option in the absence of Scott Allan. Very skilful player too.

[ElginHibbie]

That's them basically asking for government help now, looking forward to English and Murray condemning them as much as they did us

https://twitter.com/dundeeunitedfc/status/1321898917936746497?s=20 (https://twitter.com/dundeeunitedfc/status/1321898917936746497?s=20)

[hibs#1]

Not really, most teams don't spend over 100% of turnover on wages. Those that do, historically go bust! They've made this rod for their own back and got caught out with Covid too which is unlucky but most is their own fault.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/dundee-uniteds-wage-turnover-ratio-mammoth-133-cent-1404164


The 133% doesn't even include Shankland 😯 with my limited finicial knowledge that sounds like a recipe for disaster.... Before covid never mind now.