Contingency for Incomplete Season

[Greenbeard]

So what contingencies should be on the table if the season can't be completed?
Fallback to positions after 33 games (ie post-split matches either not played or results ignored)?
Failing that, fallback to positions after 22 games (fairer H/A ratio)?
Lots of chat about a 3-0 forfeit being unfair. What should the grounds be? Forfeit only once there is no space left in the calendar? I agree with the view that a club should not be punished if the match can't proceed through no fault of the club or their players. But I would go along with a forfeit where there has been a clear breach of protocol like the Celtic boy or the Sheep herd.
If there are to be forfeited matches, for whatever reason, 3-0 could have a significant impact on goal difference at the end of the season. Would 1-0 be fairer? Or if any of a title win, European spot, play-off spot, or promotion/relegation place come down to goal difference, should all the matches which the two tied teams played against the "offending" team be discounted from the goal difference calculation in order to rank the two teams?
Lots of scenarios. Pros and cons with them all.
What chance of advance agreement? Something agreed in advance, whatever it might be, must be better than all the shenanigans of last season.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

The only fair thing would be no promotions or relegations...

[Dibben]

This. Is that not was Budge was after last season. Can argue against it now... 😱😂😂

[The Modfather]

The only fair thing would be no promotions or relegations...

Yep, if the season is ended early again I think Hearts would be the first club banging the drum for no teams to be “expelled”....

[Dashing Bob S]

So what contingencies should be on the table if the season can't be completed?
Fallback to positions after 33 games (ie post-split matches either not played or results ignored)?
Failing that, fallback to positions after 22 games (fairer H/A ratio)?
Lots of chat about a 3-0 forfeit being unfair. What should the grounds be? Forfeit only once there is no space left in the calendar? I agree with the view that a club should not be punished if the match can't proceed through no fault of the club or their players. But I would go along with a forfeit where there has been a clear breach of protocol like the Celtic boy or the Sheep herd.
If there are to be forfeited matches, for whatever reason, 3-0 could have a significant impact on goal difference at the end of the season. Would 1-0 be fairer? Or if any of a title win, European spot, play-off spot, or promotion/relegation place come down to goal difference, should all the matches which the two tied teams played against the "offending" team be discounted from the goal difference calculation in order to rank the two teams?
Lots of scenarios. Pros and cons with them all.
What chance of advance agreement? Something agreed in advance, whatever it might be, must be better than all the shenanigans of last season.

Expel Hearts

[Partyraiser]

I think last season's debacle has shown the only way to go is to void the season if it happens again...

[matty_f]

I think if we're less than halfway through the season and it has to end, then no promotion or relegation is fair, in fact anything right up until maybe all the games are done then I would say no promotion is the best option.

[weecounty hibby]

Regardless of league positions or how many games played, just expelegate hearts again. Just for being hearts

[MWHIBBIES]

Finish it regardless. England managed it.

[JohnMcM]

Finish it regardless. England managed it.

Stop being sensible. That option does not provide a valid reason to re-expelegate Hearts and does not give the Great Business Woman the no relegation or promotion outcome she so desired not very long ago.:greengrin

[Keith_M]

I notice nobody's given much of a view on who should be declared champions if the season's cut short.


I know, I couldn't really give a **** either.

[ballengeich]

Finish it regardless. England managed it.

Only for their top two divisions, where the clubs have more money than almost all in Scotland and were working under different government restrictions. League 1 down to National League North and South did the same as us (and France).

[matty_f]

I notice nobody's given much of a view on who should be declared champions if the season's cut short.


I know, I couldn't really give a **** either.

Hibs.

No promotion either, even if we do complete the season.

Did I say no promotion yet?


No promotion.

[matty_f]

Finish it regardless. England managed it.

England did it at an expense the Scottish Clubs simply couldn't afford.

Finishing last season was never an option, not just for cost reasons but also the rules set by the government prevented it.

[Keith_M]

Hibs.

No promotion either, even if we do complete the season.

Did I say no promotion yet?


No promotion.


:greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

Hibs.

No promotion either, even if we do complete the season.

Did I say no promotion yet?


No promotion.
I like it. Is that you Rod??

[bingo70]

Hibs.

No promotion either, even if we do complete the season.

Did I say no promotion yet?


No promotion.

I think that’s fair however a contingency plan would need to be put in place in case Hearts finish outwith the promotion spots.

[Kato]

I think last season's debacle has shown the only way to go is to void the season if it happens again...In what way was it a debacle?

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[GreenCastle]

I find it hilarious they haven’t even got a plan if last season happened again.

Listening to the radio discussion they kept saying it’s a member’s organisation so similar would come to a vote.

You can’t start awarding 3-0 wins which is changing the rules midway through the season.

Cup games this was agreed due to timescales.

In a weird way would love to know what would happen if the league is stopped like last season...Rangers ahead - Celtic with some games in hand..last season they got lucky as Celtic were pretty far ahead.

They also have the issue lower down pyramid again of Highland hasn’t started yet - how does this affect Lowland league playoffs etc.

You would think they would put something in place but no they will just vote on options if it was to happen so really anything could happen.

Regarding players having to miss games - clubs should really be made to play these games only if safe to do so. Levein was saying he heard some clubs weren’t following protocols.

But football isn’t in a bubble - such nonsense. The only thing different to us they are doing is more regular testing.

[jacomo]

This. Is that not was Budge was after last season. Can argue against it now... 😱😂😂


Yeah, on reflection, she was right, but it simply wasn’t right to make a sudden decision and deny those clubs which had earned promotion to a higher division.

Now though, we can make a decision quickly and every club will know where they stand.

[jacomo]

England did it at an expense the Scottish Clubs simply couldn't afford.

Finishing last season was never an option, not just for cost reasons but also the rules set by the government prevented it.


:agree:

It was a non starter. Even Hearts voted to finish the season early.

[MWHIBBIES]

England did it at an expense the Scottish Clubs simply couldn't afford.

Finishing last season was never an option, not just for cost reasons but also the rules set by the government prevented it.

Of course, if this season gets to 30 games again then fine, end it. If it's after 15 or 20, get it finished. We can't just keep ending seasons and expecting sponsors and sky to pay out imo.

[hibbysam]

I find it hilarious they haven’t even got a plan if last season happened again.

Listening to the radio discussion they kept saying it’s a member’s organisation so similar would come to a vote.

You can’t start awarding 3-0 wins which is changing the rules midway through the season.

Cup games this was agreed due to timescales.

In a weird way would love to know what would happen if the league is stopped like last season...Rangers ahead - Celtic with some games in hand..last season they got lucky as Celtic were pretty far ahead.

They also have the issue lower down pyramid again of Highland hasn’t started yet - how does this affect Lowland league playoffs etc.

You would think they would put something in place but no they will just vote on options if it was to happen so really anything could happen.

Regarding players having to miss games - clubs should really be made to play these games only if safe to do so. Levein was saying he heard some clubs weren’t following protocols.

But football isn’t in a bubble - such nonsense. The only thing different to us they are doing is more regular testing.

Said the same back months ago when the league asked the clubs to give them more powers and they refused. The clubs at that point should have been made to sit around a table and come up with rules for most eventualities. Games being postponed, players missing, teams/players breaking rules, season having to shut down etc. Everything in black and white before a ball is kicked.

[Bostonhibby]

Award the treble to Hearts?

They've been saving up for what seems like forever to buy out the omnipresent Mrs doctor Budge, were unfairly expungulated from proper football and are now training on a public badminton court when the putting green is fully booked.

Surely no one deserves it more?





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[RoYO!]

Why was this not decided before a ball was kicked?

I.e. play 25 games and everything stands. One up, one down, no playoffs.

Less than 25 and everything is null and void- no promotion, relegation, champions etc.

Everyone would have had to sign off on this. If you dont like it, dont take part in the league. Everyone knows where they stand before the first league match. They had decided pre season what exactly constituted a season in F1 for example. (8 races I believe)

Instead what we'll get is a total re run of the farce of this year.

[matty_f]

Why was this not decided before a ball was kicked?

I.e. play 25 games and everything stands. One up, one down, no playoffs.

Less than 25 and everything is null and void- no promotion, relegation, champions etc.

Everyone would have had to sign off on this. If you dont like it, dont take part in the league. Everyone knows where they stand before the first league match. They had decided pre season what exactly constituted a season in F1 for example.

Instead what we'll get is a total re run of the farce of this year.

The SPFL board put forward a plan to give them authority to decide what happens and it got voted down - the clubs decided the current way was the best way for it.

[ancient hibee]

Why was this not decided before a ball was kicked?

I.e. play 25 games and everything stands. One up, one down, no playoffs.

Less than 25 and everything is null and void- no promotion, relegation, champions etc.

Everyone would have had to sign off on this. If you dont like it, dont take part in the league. Everyone knows where they stand before the first league match. They had decided pre season what exactly constituted a season in F1 for example.

Instead what we'll get is a total re run of the farce of this year.

The clubs don’t want to agree to anything that may have a bad impact. Self interest rules.

[green day]

The SPFL board put forward a plan to give them authority to decide what happens and it got voted down - the clubs decided the current way was the best way for it.

And it demonstrates that Doncaster and his board were doing sensible contingency planning so if this goes Pete Tong then its only the clubs who are to blame.

The nightmare (actually hilarious) scenario is for Huns to be ahead with Celtic having games in hand and the government forces the SPFL to call the leagues. The "heids gone" would be stellar.

Wonder how Tom English can spin this against the SPFL board this time :rolleyes:

[matty_f]

And it demonstrates that Doncaster and his board were doing sensible contingency planning so if this goes Pete Tong then its only the clubs who are to blame.

The nightmare (actually hilarious) scenario is for Huns to be ahead with Celtic having games in hand and the government forces the SPFL to call the leagues. The "heids gone" would be stellar.

Wonder how Tom English can spin this against the SPFL board this time :rolleyes:

:faf: Can you imagine if Celtic won the league on a points per game basis when they were behind Rangers?!

[mal]

So what contingencies should be on the table if the season can't be completed?
Fallback to positions after 33 games (ie post-split matches either not played or results ignored)?
Failing that, fallback to positions after 22 games (fairer H/A ratio)?
Lots of chat about a 3-0 forfeit being unfair. What should the grounds be? Forfeit only once there is no space left in the calendar? I agree with the view that a club should not be punished if the match can't proceed through no fault of the club or their players. But I would go along with a forfeit where there has been a clear breach of protocol like the Celtic boy or the Sheep herd.
If there are to be forfeited matches, for whatever reason, 3-0 could have a significant impact on goal difference at the end of the season. Would 1-0 be fairer? Or if any of a title win, European spot, play-off spot, or promotion/relegation place come down to goal difference, should all the matches which the two tied teams played against the "offending" team be discounted from the goal difference calculation in order to rank the two teams?
Lots of scenarios. Pros and cons with them all.
What chance of advance agreement? Something agreed in advance, whatever it might be, must be better than all the shenanigans of last season.

If "enough" games have been played then it should be the same as last season, final positions decided on PPG with one-up-one-down and playoffs scrapped.

If enough games haven't been played then null and void could be an option, depending on the financial implications.

Fallback, as described above, would be an insane proposition as it could lead to a scenario whereby, for example, Celtic were ahead on goal difference at the 22-game mark then went on a horrible run of form to the extent that The Rangers were 16 points clear with 5 games to play when the season was halted, only for the last 11 games to be voided. That would admittedly be hilarious, but less so if it was us who were on the wrong end of such a scenario. The same could apply at the other end of the table. Let's not even consider that as an option.

[the tornadoe]

Neither of the Old Firm will agree to any decision which will leave them in a position of losing the league on a technicality. I understand any formula would require the old 11-1 vote and therefore will never get passed because of the self interest of those two.

[hibbysam]

The SPFL board put forward a plan to give them authority to decide what happens and it got voted down - the clubs decided the current way was the best way for it.

At which point they should have had the clubs round the table sorting it there and then. They’re making it up week to week now, the put rules in place for the betfred cup prior to it starting, the league should’ve been the same.

[Eyrie]

The SPFL board put forward a plan to give them authority to decide what happens and it got voted down - the clubs decided the current way was the best way for it.

The clubs were right to do so, because the decision should not be left to the board's discretion.

I agree with those who say that a proper plan should have been drawn up and agreed before any games were played.

Personal view is that every team should play every other team home and away before the leagues can be decided. That may mean creating a bubble if some teams have played fewer than 22 games in the top flight, or 18 in the lower leagues. After that, I'd apply the principle used last season of average points per game to decide titles, promotions, relegations and Europe. Otherwise we won't finish this season until 2022.

The only problem is that Hearts were adamant last time that promotion should be cancelled and even went to court over it, at great expense to Dundee United, Raith and Cove. Could be tricky if they are top of their lower league and refuse promotion.

[Skol]

The only fair thing would be no promotions or relegations...

I would relegate Hearts

[jacomo]

The clubs were right to do so, because the decision should not be left to the board's discretion.

I agree with those who say that a proper plan should have been drawn up and agreed before any games were played.

Personal view is that every team should play every other team home and away before the leagues can be decided. That may mean creating a bubble if some teams have played fewer than 22 games in the top flight, or 18 in the lower leagues. After that, I'd apply the principle used last season of average points per game to decide titles, promotions, relegations and Europe. Otherwise we won't finish this season until 2022.

The only problem is that Hearts were adamant last time that promotion should be cancelled and even went to court over it, at great expense to Dundee United, Raith and Cove. Could be tricky if they are top of their lower league and refuse promotion.


I’m sure the noble Hearts would act in the wider interests of the game. After all, a club with a tradition of selfless sacrifice would never make a global pandemic all about them, would they?!

[Bostonhibby]

I’m sure the noble Hearts would act in the wider interests of the game. After all, a club with a tradition of selfless sacrifice would never make a global pandemic all about them, would they?!Shouldn't we just put Mrs doctor Budge in charge of it all?

Just as soon as she gets that stand finished she could set up some sort of vague task force with a view to submitting a draft report to her How To Save Scottish Football sub committee for proof reading before she herself adds the finishing touches.

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[Bristolhibby]

Expel Hearts

And The club formally known as Rangers.

J

[Bostonhibby]

And The club formally known as Rangers.

JThe now defunct Glasgow rangers?

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[Bristolhibby]

I notice nobody's given much of a view on who should be declared champions if the season's cut short.


I know, I couldn't really give a **** either.

Surely it’s the team lying 4th? It’s the only sensible option.

J

[Bristolhibby]

The now defunct Glasgow rangers?

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That’s the one!

[Bostonhibby]

That’s the one!Voluntarily liquidated themselves to avoid paying their debts.

Seems they actually do do walking away.

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[Hakim Sar]

Punish Hearts.

[Bostonhibby]

Punish Hearts.Expungulate them, but only after a Budge led task force to see if any better word can be created. Delivery by the next millennium is feasible.

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[whiskyhibby]

:agree:
The only fair thing would be no promotions or relegations...

[PatHead]

No promotion or relegation from the championship. Promote 2 clubs from league one. Two clubs from league one etc. Promote one club from Highland and Lowland leagues.

That way the no club is disadvantaged apart from the championship winner's but seems fair to me as there is always a loser somewhere.

Hearts will surely agree as no one would be punished and it is for the common good of the game.

[McSwanky]

I think we should all just let Tom English decide.

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[ScottB]

It was the big thing missing from the arguments last season, what if it happens again?

Given the very high chance that it could, it’s made that rules weren’t set in stone to cover the possibility of it happening again.

[Purple & Green]

Bit of an issue with the top league playing 38 games and the lower leagues 27, and with the top league being 10 games ahead. If we get 20 games in from here then 30/38 games is fair to call season say? 20/27 to call the season might seem a bit light, especially as there may be postponements in there too.

I think this is going to be a disaster.

[green day]

The clubs were right to do so, because the decision should not be left to the board's discretion.

I agree with those who say that a proper plan should have been drawn up and agreed before any games were played.

Personal view is that every team should play every other team home and away before the leagues can be decided. That may mean creating a bubble if some teams have played fewer than 22 games in the top flight, or 18 in the lower leagues. After that, I'd apply the principle used last season of average points per game to decide titles, promotions, relegations and Europe. Otherwise we won't finish this season until 2022.

The only problem is that Hearts were adamant last time that promotion should be cancelled and even went to court over it, at great expense to Dundee United, Raith and Cove. Could be tricky if they are top of their lower league and refuse promotion.

And, this is the problem with allowing the clubs to decide.

As Budge, Tom English et al told us on numerous occasions in the summer - self interest will rule.

Nobody was going to think about contingency plans in the summer as there was too much bad blood about so imo the Doncaster plan was sensible.

However, it didnt happen and we are now in the amusing position where we have no contingency plan and the probability of it all going Pete Tong again.

There is no chance at all of any "solution" being passed - if you were Hamilton, would you vote for "positions as is"? and of course as you note, Hearts wont vote for No Promotion, despite them telling us it was the only honourable position..............which is the bit I will piss myself about.:greengrin

[FilipinoHibs]

I think you need to have at least to have played everyone home and away to call the leagues etc. Championship may struggle to do that. Leagues should only be called after 2 rounds of matches or after the third round. If we are somewhere in between 2nd and 3rd go back to the end of the second or third round. If games are needed to complete second round create a bubble. US did it with cases running at 50,000 a day. Philippines has done it with cases at less than 2,000 a day (population 110 mollion) and no money. Calling in between rounds does not create a level playing field.

[Eyrie]

I think you need to have at least to have played everyone home and away to call the leagues etc. Championship may struggle to do that. Leagues should only be called after 2 rounds of matches or after the third round. If we are somewhere in between 2nd and 3rd go back to the end of the second or third round. If games are needed to complete second round create a bubble. US did it with cases running at 50,000 a day. Philippines has done it with cases at less than 2,000 a day (population 110 mollion) and no money. Calling in between rounds does not create a level playing field.

We didn't finish the third round of fixtures last season. St Johnstone finished ahead of us because of a game at Ibrox that was still outstanding from the second round of fixtures and never played.

[Greenbeard]

We didn't finish the third round of fixtures last season. St Johnstone finished ahead of us because of a game at Ibrox that was still outstanding from the second round of fixtures and never played.
Which made it unfair cos the games played after completing 22 will always have an imbalance in terms of difficulty of opposition and H/A. You can even say that of the H/A balance after 33 games. Hence reverting back to positions after 22 games seems fairer if that is the solution decreed in advance, not retrospectively.

[Phil MaGlass]

What could be funny as.... is if the season(god forbid) is cut short and it goes to a vote, hertz could be Donald Ducked after all the ill will they have created against themselves:greengrin:thumbsup:

no promotion for Championship winner,

[FilipinoHibs]

Which made it unfair cos the games played after completing 22 will always have an imbalance in terms of difficulty of opposition and H/A. You can even say that of the H/A balance after 33 games. Hence reverting back to positions after 22 games seems fairer if that is the solution decreed in advance, not retrospectively.

The way the SPFL is set up the third round determines the pots of those who can win the league/European places or those who can be relegated. You could have a rule that says if 27 games or more are played then complete the third round and the play offs in a bubble. This would maintain sporting integrity and TV contracts.

[PatHead]

I think you need to have at least to have played everyone home and away to call the leagues etc. Championship may struggle to do that. Leagues should only be called after 2 rounds of matches or after the third round. If we are somewhere in between 2nd and 3rd go back to the end of the second or third round. If games are needed to complete second round create a bubble. US did it with cases running at 50,000 a day. Philippines has done it with cases at less than 2,000 a day (population 110 mollion) and no money. Calling in between rounds does not create a level playing field.
Don't think that the lower leagues could call a bubble in those circumstances. Too many players are part time.

A bubble could be created in the top league though. Suppose the lower leagues involving clubs like Alloa, Arbroath and Hearts could just be voided with no promotion or relegation.

[lord bunberry]

One thing for certain is that hearts are going to look even more stupid than they usually do if the leagues have to be called. There’s no way they will vote for no promotion if they’re top of the championship and that will expose everything they did last year as an attempt to save themselves from relegation, which everyone knew it was.

[MWHIBBIES]

One thing for certain is that hearts are going to look even more stupid than they usually do if the leagues have to be called. There’s no way they will vote for no promotion if they’re top of the championship and that will expose everything they did last year as an attempt to save themselves from relegation, which everyone knew it was.
Eh, obviously it was. Rightly so. All clubs serve themselves.

It's far more likely to benefit Hearts. The precedent was set by promoting United and relegating them without finishing all matches. Should happen again if that's the way we want it.

[Not In The Know]

One thing for certain is that hearts are going to look even more stupid than they usually do if the leagues have to be called. There’s no way they will vote for no promotion if they’re top of the championship and that will expose everything they did last year as an attempt to save themselves from relegation, which everyone knew it was.


This situation would be amazing.

[lord bunberry]

Eh, obviously it was. Rightly so. All clubs serve themselves.

It's far more likely to benefit Hearts. The precedent was set by promoting United and relegating them without finishing all matches. Should happen again if that's the way we want it.
Of course all clubs serve themselves and that’s exactly what hearts did. They did however spin it as a gallant fight to do what was right for Scottish football. They are most likely to be the team in the position that Dundee Utd were in last season and we all know how far they went “for the good of the game” taking the opposing stance this time will show them up for the hypocrites they are.

[Bostonhibby]

One thing for certain is that hearts are going to look even more stupid than they usually do if the leagues have to be called. There’s no way they will vote for no promotion if they’re top of the championship and that will expose everything they did last year as an attempt to save themselves from relegation, which everyone knew it was.Surely Budge will once again go down the saving Scottish football path, demand no promotion at all then also force her way to the head of a task force to deliver an alternative a few years down the line with nothing substantive at all required in the short term.

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[lord bunberry]

Surely Budge will once again go down the saving Scottish football path, demand no promotion at all then also force her way to the head of a task force to deliver an alternative a few years down the line with nothing substantive at all required in the short term.

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I’d certainly like to think so mate, they are of course the bastions of fair play, no club should be punished due to the pandemic.

[GORDONSMITH7]

Surely Budge will once again go down the saving Scottish football path, demand no promotion at all then also force her way to the head of a task force to deliver an alternative a few years down the line with nothing substantive at all required in the short term.

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Absolutely on the money my good amigo.See you soon as you can come up safely.

GGTTH

BIG G

[MWHIBBIES]

Of course all clubs serve themselves and that’s exactly what hearts did. They did however spin it as a gallant fight to do what was right for Scottish football. They are most likely to be the team in the position that Dundee Utd were in last season and we all know how far they went “for the good of the game” taking the opposing stance this time will show them up for the hypocrites they are.


You're right that it would show them up but no one would really be surprised. They have zero shame

[givescotlandfreedom]

The only fair thing would be no promotions or relegations...

Agreed

[lord bunberry]

You're right that it would show them up but no one would really be surprised. They have zero shame
Never was a truer word spoken.

[Bostonhibby]

Absolutely on the money my good amigo.See you soon as you can come up safely.

GGTTH

BIG G[emoji106] Cheers my friend. Will look forward to it.What a year.

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[Greenbeard]

My OP was intended just for the Premiership with my green specs on. I don't give a monkey's what they do with all the lower level clubs in the lower leagues.

[A Hi-Bee]

Just keep the hertz relegated and all will be fine.
:greengrin:greengrin:greengrin:greengrin:greengrin :greengrin:greengrin

[Eyrie]

Of course all clubs serve themselves and that’s exactly what hearts did. They did however spin it as a gallant fight to do what was right for Scottish football. They are most likely to be the team in the position that Dundee Utd were in last season and we all know how far they went “for the good of the game” taking the opposing stance this time will show them up for the hypocrites they are.

Let's look at what serves the interests of each club.

Obviously it's in the interests of Hearts to get promoted.

But it is in the interests of the other nine clubs in that particular lower league to vote to keep Hearts down as it means they'll get a proper season of the maroon pound, assuming crowds are allowed for 21/22.


Similarly it is in the interests of the clubs in the bottom two divisions to keep Hearts eligible for the Challenge Cup so they'll have a chance of drawing the maroon pound.


It is also in the interests of the bottom eight in the Premiership to vote to keep Hearts down, as the lack of the maroon pound means it's a level playing field in the race for a top six finish.


That leaves us, Aberdeen and the Ugly Sisters who wouldn't be affected but it's in the interests of those four clubs to support the other clubs in Scottish football.


Sad, isn't it? :greengrin

[jacomo]

Let's look at what serves the interests of each club.

Obviously it's in the interests of Hearts to get promoted.

But it is in the interests of the other nine clubs in that particular lower league to vote to keep Hearts down as it means they'll get a proper season of the maroon pound, assuming crowds are allowed for 21/22.


Similarly it is in the interests of the clubs in the bottom two divisions to keep Hearts eligible for the Challenge Cup so they'll have a chance of drawing the maroon pound.


It is also in the interests of the bottom eight in the Premiership to vote to keep Hearts down, as the lack of the maroon pound means it's a level playing field in the race for a top six finish.


That leaves us, Aberdeen and the Ugly Sisters who wouldn't be affected but it's in the interests of those four clubs to support the other clubs in Scottish football.


Sad, isn't it? :greengrin


Hearts need to go down another division to give the people what they want - the M8 derby.

[Eyrie]

Hearts need to go down another division to give the people what they want - the M8 derby.

Works for me.

[Greenbeard]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54661323

[Bostonhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54661323C'Mon the members, a simple majority will do[emoji1]

Obviously due attention will be paid to the Hearts/Inverness brotherhood, Patrick's director and Stranraer.

Democracy must prevail.

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