Scotland Right Back solution staring us in the face (NHC)

[CMurdoch]

James Tavernier has been living in Scotland for 5 years so could now be eligible to play for Scotland.
He has matured into a very good player and would be a big upgrade on the current incumbent Stephen O Donnell.
A leader, athletic, great crosses, great engine.
Him on one side and Robertson on the other would make us more of a threat to other teams.
Folk will get the hump because he plays for Rangers, didn't shake hands with Porteous and is English but small countries need to be pragmatic if they are to break down the massive disadvantage of a small population.
Tavernier would fill a problem position in the current Scottish team at a time when we have a chance to get to tournaments.

Tin hat on!

[Diclonius]

I'm sure British teams have an agreement that the residency rule can't be used.

[Purple & Green]

What makes you think he is eligible?

This story was run a year ago, and the view then was residency only applied to under 18s.

[CMurdoch]

I'm sure British teams have an agreement that the residency rule can't be used.

They got round it for Andrew Driver.
What a waste of effort that was.

[Jones28]

Paul McGinn is an even more obvious contender IMO

[gbhibby]

I think there is a residency agreement between us and England although the English have not always adhered to it in the past. Has improved since that day in May. I don't think John Barnes fulfilled the criteria to play for England at the time.

[CMurdoch]

What makes you think he is eligible?

This story was run a year ago, and the view then was residency only applied to under 18s.

There are all manner of nationalities playing for other country and most seem to be on a fairly tenuous link.
South Americans playing for Spain. Africans playing for France, Belgium and even Poland.

[Diclonius]

They got round it for Andrew Driver.
What a waste of effort that was.

I believe he wasn't schooled for long enough here but we reduced the requirements.

[CMurdoch]

Paul McGinn is an even more obvious contender IMO

Like Stephen O Donnell he is a good club player but he isn't going to add the dimensions to the Scotland team that Tavernier would.

Tavernier also has the advantage of having played high level European football over the last few years which McGinn hasn't.

[The 90+2]

Tavernier would be amazing for Scotland.

[easty]

I don’t care what other countries do, I’d rather we picked Scottish players, you don’t have to be born here to be Scottish but if you don’t consider yourself to be Scottish then get tae ****.

If you asked Tavernier what nationality he was he’d say English. It’s just no for me.

[Future17]

James Tavernier has been living in Scotland for 5 years so could now be eligible to play for Scotland.
He has matured into a very good player and would be a big upgrade on the current incumbent Stephen O Donnell.
A leader, athletic, great crosses, great engine.
Him on one side and Robertson on the other would make us more of a threat to other teams.
Folk will get the hump because he plays for Rangers, didn't shake hands with Porteous and is English but small countries need to be pragmatic if they are to break down the massive disadvantage of a small population.
Tavernier would fill a problem position in the current Scottish team at a time when we have a chance to get to tournaments.

Tin hat on!

Tavernier would be an upgrade for Scotland but he isn't eligible to play (and can't become eligible) under the existing framework.

[danhibees1875]

Don't know what the rules are but if possible and he wanted to then that would seem like a good idea.

He seems to have stitched himself back together well since 21516.

[DH1875]

I wouldn't call Stephen O'Donnell incompent. Think he is decent player to be fair. Surprised he ended up at Motherwell.

[The 90+2]

I wouldn't call Stephen O'Donnell incompent. Think he is decent player to be fair. Surprised he ended up at Motherwell.

He's not international standard and is generally the poorest player on the pitch when playing for Scotland.

[The Modfather]

He's not international standard and is generally the poorest player on the pitch when playing for Scotland.

I don’t disagree with your general point, but he has been part of a team and defence that is starting to look more than the sum of its parts, and difficult to beat. I don’t see many better options than O’Donnell at the moment IMO.

[The 90+2]

I don’t disagree with your general point, but he has been part of a team and defence that is starting to look more than the sum of its parts, and difficult to beat. I don’t see many better options than O’Donnell at the moment IMO.

True, and there isn’t. 👍

[hibby rae]

James Tavernier has been living in Scotland for 5 years so could now be eligible to play for Scotland.
He has matured into a very good player and would be a big upgrade on the current incumbent Stephen O Donnell.
A leader, athletic, great crosses, great engine.
Him on one side and Robertson on the other would make us more of a threat to other teams.
Folk will get the hump because he plays for Rangers, didn't shake hands with Porteous and is English but small countries need to be pragmatic if they are to break down the massive disadvantage of a small population.
Tavernier would fill a problem position in the current Scottish team at a time when we have a chance to get to tournaments.

Tin hat on!

Tavernier is far better going forward than defending, which he can still be dodgy at imo.

And as a Scotland defender he's going to be defending a lot more than at Rangers, generally against a better standard of player. I don't think we pick defenders on their attacking abilities.

[The 90+2]

Tavernier is far better going forward than defending, which he can still be dodgy at imo.

And as a Scotland defender he's going to be defending a lot more than at Rangers, generally against a better standard of player. I don't think we pick defenders on their attacking abilities.

He's fantastic for them in Europe also. He's turned into an excellent player.

[A Hi-Bee]

He's fantastic for them in Europe also. He's turned into an excellent player.

No ****in way it would be like selling your soul to the devil, dont care if we never win another game rather than allow this kind of ***** to happen, **** far better Hibs players in the past never even got a cap.
:rolleyes:

[Purple & Green]

There are all manner of nationalities playing for other country and most seem to be on a fairly tenuous link.
South Americans playing for Spain. Africans playing for France, Belgium and even Poland.

It’s a lot more straightforward for other countries though because they have passports of the countries they represent.

Tavernier doesn’t have a Scottish or English passport - he has a UK one, hence the reason for different citizenship rules - as citizenship in the FIFA concept is relatively meaningless for the UK teams.

[bigwheel]

He's not international standard and is generally the poorest player on the pitch when playing for Scotland.


and yet he was pivotal in creating our goal in the last game.....

[Andy74]

James Tavernier has been living in Scotland for 5 years so could now be eligible to play for Scotland.
He has matured into a very good player and would be a big upgrade on the current incumbent Stephen O Donnell.
A leader, athletic, great crosses, great engine.
Him on one side and Robertson on the other would make us more of a threat to other teams.
Folk will get the hump because he plays for Rangers, didn't shake hands with Porteous and is English but small countries need to be pragmatic if they are to break down the massive disadvantage of a small population.
Tavernier would fill a problem position in the current Scottish team at a time when we have a chance to get to tournaments.

Tin hat on!

Not top of the list of things I’m worried about making happen.

[supermcginn]

and yet he was pivotal in creating our goal in the last game.....
and had an assist the game before.

[murray26]

He would be a upgrade but it wouldn’t sit well with me.

[Jones28]

Like Stephen O Donnell he is a good club player but he isn't going to add the dimensions to the Scotland team that Tavernier would.

Tavernier also has the advantage of having played high level European football over the last few years which McGinn hasn't.

Irrelevant though, cos he isn't eligible.

[MWHIBBIES]

Just because someone is a captain it doesn't make them a leader. He's lead them to exactly **** all in 5 years.

[Keith_M]

Has Tavernier even expressed an interest in playing for Scotland?

[nonshinyfinish]

Has Tavernier even expressed an interest in playing for Scotland?

No, but he's begged the FAI for a call up as it's the only nation that can guarantee he won't be run ragged by Stokes.

[weecounty hibby]

He's ****ing rank. Would get found out big time at international level as he can't defend. He will also go down in history as the most losingist Hun captain of all time

[bigwheel]

He's ****ing rank. Would get found out big time at international level as he can't defend. He will also go down in history as the most losingist Hun captain of all time

Good to read a balanced analysis on here [emoji2]

[J-C]

There have been a few rugby players played for Scotland through the residency rule, Sean Maitland and Tim Visser spring to mind, with Pierre Schoeman from S Africa qualifying next year.

[weecounty hibby]

Good to read a balanced analysis on here [emoji2]
I toned my reply down a bit!! He is ok but he's never an international player and as I say, we have been lucky to witness his time at the Hun that has coincided with their worst run ever without a major trophy. Just because we haven't got any real standout right backs doesn't all of a sudden make him an international.

[MWHIBBIES]

I toned my reply down a bit!! He is ok but he's never an international player and as I say, we have been lucky to witness his time at the Hun that has coincided with their worst run ever without a major trophy. Just because we haven't got any real standout right backs doesn't all of a sudden make him an international.

International being a high standard is a myth. Lyndon Dykes was also "never international standard" now he's playing every game.

[weecounty hibby]

There have been a few rugby players played for Scotland through the residency rule, Sean Maitland and Tim Visser spring to mind, with Pierre Schoeman from S Africa qualifying next year.
Yeah and as a big rugby fan, I hate the residency rule. It will turn international rugby into the same as the EPL or champs league. The highest paid, England, will eventually become almost untouchable and that includes the ABs. The players get huge money to sign for English clubs, stay for a few years and then hope to get selected by England who pay the highest of any nation for international games. At least 5 times more than Scotland pay. So they will always get the pick of the best players and the rest will get the second best. ABs did it for years with islanders before it became normalised and everyone started doing it. Even they miss out on players to England now. Maybe I'm old fashioned but playing for your country should be just that, now it's all about mercenaries playing for whoever pays the highest.
Sadly football looks like doing the same

[weecounty hibby]

International being a high standard is a myth. Lyndon Dykes was also "never international standard" now he's playing every game.

There are loads of players who have caps that are never international standard. No need to bring any more in though. I personally think Tavernier is bang average and in the biggest game if his life got ripped a new one by Stokes

[Smartie]

It's probably about as pragmatically Alex Miller-like as I get, but I can't be doing with fullbacks who can't defend. They're defenders, they need to defend. Anything offered going forward is a bonus.

Tavernier has actually played some glorious stuff going forward for Rangers against Hibs. He's also been directly individually culpable for as many goals we've scored as any player I can remember.

I'd genuinely rather have Paul McGinn playing there. Tavernier may have improved, or Rangers might have found a way to cover for his deficiencies, but every time we play them I still think we're most likely to get joy down his side as his attacking leaves his team wide open at times, and even when he's not miles up the park his positioning is often hopeless.

[The Count]

I am a believer that you have to have Scottish blood somewhere in you to play for our country.I know the egg chasers do it but its a form of cheating in my book.You go with what you have with a Scottish bloodline whether good or bad.

[Yorkshire HFC]

I've always thought he was a good player, but if he's not Scottish then I don't think he should be able to play for Scotland.

[CMurdoch]

Yeah and as a big rugby fan, I hate the residency rule. It will turn international rugby into the same as the EPL or champs league. The highest paid, England, will eventually become almost untouchable and that includes the ABs. The players get huge money to sign for English clubs, stay for a few years and then hope to get selected by England who pay the highest of any nation for international games. At least 5 times more than Scotland pay. So they will always get the pick of the best players and the rest will get the second best. ABs did it for years with islanders before it became normalised and everyone started doing it. Even they miss out on players to England now. Maybe I'm old fashioned but playing for your country should be just that, now it's all about mercenaries playing for whoever pays the highest.
Sadly football looks like doing the same

Last time I looked at the make up of International Rugby teams they were all full of New Zealanders and South Africans. Given your post it makes sense for the players concerned. All about the cash. Very sad.

N.B. have just looked at the forwards in the Scotland squad and it's rammed with New Zealanders, South Africans, an Australian and lots of Englishmen.
Pragmatism is one thing but the SRFU have made the Scottish team irrelevant to Scotland.

[hibbysam]

It's probably about as pragmatically Alex Miller-like as I get, but I can't be doing with fullbacks who can't defend. They're defenders, they need to defend. Anything offered going forward is a bonus.

Tavernier has actually played some glorious stuff going forward for Rangers against Hibs. He's also been directly individually culpable for as many goals we've scored as any player I can remember.

I'd genuinely rather have Paul McGinn playing there. Tavernier may have improved, or Rangers might have found a way to cover for his deficiencies, but every time we play them I still think we're most likely to get joy down his side as his attacking leaves his team wide open at times, and even when he's not miles up the park his positioning is often hopeless.

Scotland don’t play with full backs though. We play with wing backs, and their job going forward is as important, if not more important, than defending. It’s never going to happen so it’s a pointless argument, however he would be a massive improvement on what we have. Is he the best defender? Absolutely not, but Scotland’s system would suit that even more than Rangers’ would. He’s extremely good in an attacking sense and he’s an ok defender.

Anyone saying Paul McGinn is a better right wing back is having one also.

[Mibbes Aye]

No, but he's begged the FAI for a call up as it's the only nation that can guarantee he won't be run ragged by Stokes.

In fairness, he would have to see Stokes in order to realise he was being run ragged by him.

[Bishop Hibee]

Tavernier got the biggest roasting by an opponent I’ve ever seen v Stokes 21/5/16. I’d rather have Paul McGinn or O’Donnell.

[Purple & Green]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_eligibility_rules#2009_agreement

Explains it

[hibbysam]

Tavernier got the biggest roasting by an opponent I’ve ever seen v Stokes 21/5/16. I’d rather have Paul McGinn or O’Donnell.

Matt Docherty got a bigger roasting by Andy Driver a couple of years earlier, should that rule him out of all ROI squads?

[CMurdoch]

In fairness, he would have to see Stokes in order to realise he was being run ragged by him.

That was then and this is now.
Stokes has been finished for a good few years

[neil7908]

Whether or not he's good enough is irrelevant - he doesn't qualify.

Might as well debate who drops out of the team for Messi.

[gbhibby]

Yeah and as a big rugby fan, I hate the residency rule. It will turn international rugby into the same as the EPL or champs league. The highest paid, England, will eventually become almost untouchable and that includes the ABs. The players get huge money to sign for English clubs, stay for a few years and then hope to get selected by England who pay the highest of any nation for international games. At least 5 times more than Scotland pay. So they will always get the pick of the best players and the rest will get the second best. ABs did it for years with islanders before it became normalised and everyone started doing it. Even they miss out on players to England now. Maybe I'm old fashioned but playing for your country should be just that, now it's all about mercenaries playing for whoever pays the highest.
Sadly football looks like doing the same

The last rugby World Cup most teams had a large portion of their squads that qualified through residency. New Zealand use a lot of South Sea islanders. Getting back to football why not use the rules to your advantage France and Germany are not averse to doing it.

[Glory Lurker]

Disgusted that SDG hasn't been mentioned in this thread :-)

[1875Sean]

File under the same nonsense that Lorenzo Amoruso was wanting to play for Scotland

[CropleyWasGod]

Disgusted that SDG hasn't been mentioned in this thread :-)

He's Finnish 😉

[monarch]

Jordan Rhodes was born in England to English parents but earned a number of Scottish caps due to the fact he was brought up and educated in Kinross when his father Andy played goalkeeper for Dunfermline and St Johnstone.
Andy was the Pars’ goalkeeper against us in the 1991 Skol Cup final. Also I seem to remember that he had a good relationship with Hibs supporters and would often applaud and acknowledge us during pre match warm ups.

[J-C]

The last rugby World Cup most teams had a large portion of their squads that qualified through residency. New Zealand use a lot of South Sea islanders. Getting back to football why not use the rules to your advantage France and Germany are not averse to doing it.
Japan had about 6-7 Aussie/ NZ players and the reason they did so well in the world cup.

[Bristolhibby]

Has Tavernier even expressed an interest in playing for Scotland?

I’m sure not, because he’s not eligible.

Not born in Scotland
No blood ties
Not schooled in Scotland.
Qualified for another British country.

It’s a no brainer.

Post independence, he can be issued a Scottish passport then he can play. But until then. He’s English.

J

[Speedy]

I don’t care what other countries do, I’d rather we picked Scottish players, you don’t have to be born here to be Scottish but if you don’t consider yourself to be Scottish then get tae ****.

If you asked Tavernier what nationality he was he’d say English. It’s just no for me.

I would agree

[horseflesh]

Dreadful slippery slope, if that criteria ever gets used then we can kiss goodbye to any bright prospects playing down south. Billy Gilmour playing for England?

[Smartie]

Dreadful slippery slope, if that criteria ever gets used then we can kiss goodbye to any bright prospects playing down south. Billy Gilmour playing for England?

There’s a good clip out there of Billy Gilmour being asked about playing for England.

I don’t think it will happen.

[California-Hibs]

Paul McGinn is an even more obvious contender IMO

I like Paul McGinn, but this comment can't go by unhighlighted about just how much better a player James Tavernier is, c'mon now.

If it was a possibility and we were to get round it there is absolutely no question that he'd be a major upgrade for Scotland. Anyone who says otherwise simply just isn't capable of taking their Rangers hating glasses off for a second to admit it.

[aazza91]

There was a story last Year that Steve Clarke was speaking with Ryan Frederick's of West Ham. No idea what ever came off that. Could be a sound option for right back.

[expresso]

First requisite for a full back is defending and that’s where he’s weakest

[hibbysam]

First requisite for a full back is defending and that’s where he’s weakest

Thankfully Scotland don’t play with full backs then. Again, not happening anyway, but there’s more emphasis on attacking than defending when playing with wing backs. He also manages just fine most weeks for rangers and the majority of weeks in europe. He makes the odd mistake but nothing to write home about.