English League reform

[PatHead]

Story being run on BBC that the "big" six are trying to reform English football.

The likes of Newcastle and Villa would be big losers with the club's involved getting bigger and bigger.

Is this the first push towards a European League with the FA's consent?

[Benny Brazil]

Story being run on BBC that the "big" six are trying to reform English football.

The likes of Newcastle and Villa would be big losers with the club's involved getting bigger and bigger.

Is this the first push towards a European League with the FA's consent?

They mentioned certain big clubs getting special status which I didn't quite understand - they surely aren't saying these clubs can never be relegated
It seems like it is being done to suit Liverpool Man Utd, City , Spurs etc and trying to get the support by offering money to lower league clubs

[PatHead]

They mentioned certain big clubs getting special status which I didn't quite understand - they surely aren't saying these clubs can never be relegated
It seems like it is being done to suit Liverpool Man Utd, City , Spurs etc and trying to get the support by offering money to lower league clubs

With Man City being part of the big six even though they don't meet their criteria as a long serving Premiership club. Villa and Newcastle are above them. If you take it on trophies, when did Spurs last win anything?

[CallumLaidlaw]

It’s a horrible power grab by the big boys. Dangling a bit of cash in the lower leagues hour of need in exchange for a smaller Premier league, less chance of relegation, no league cup and the power to make all the big decisions within “the big 6”.
Horrible move.


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[Keith_M]

It’s a horrible power grab by the big boys. Dangling a bit of cash in the lower leagues hour of need in exchange for a smaller Premier league, less chance of relegation, no league cup and the power to make all the big decisions within “the big 6”.
Horrible move.
...


:agree:


And yet it's being described in some quarters as such a caring move* by the owners of Liverpool and Manchester Utd.



* It's actually a donation of other club's money, not theirs

[Alfred E Newman]

Story being run on BBC that the "big" six are trying to reform English football.

The likes of Newcastle and Villa would be big losers with the club's involved getting bigger and bigger.

Is this the first push towards a European League with the FA's consent?

I wonder if Hearts will be invited to join?

[wandering_hibee]

:top marks:faf::faf::faf:
I wonder if Hearts will be invited to join?

[linlithgowhibbie]

I wonder if Hearts will be invited to join?

Hearts Invited? Dr Queen Mrs Anne came up with the idea coz they have all got a speshul agreement/arrangement/love for:thumbsup: Hertz

[lucky]

:agree:


And yet it's being described in some quarters as such a caring move* by the owners of Liverpool and Manchester Utd.



* It's actually a donation of other club's money, not theirs

It’s a move towards an American sports model. They don’t do relegation just make money for the owners. The EPL is so far away from reality of football in most countries and the EFL that it’s like a different sport. This move is all about money and not money from the big clubs.

[LancsHibs]

From my understanding it is a power grab by Liverpool/Manchester United. They appear to be using the world killer pandemic COVID-19 and the resulting financial hardship on much smaller EFL clubs to increase their voting power and ultimately wealth at the others expense by offering them a loan, not a gift but a loan and not their money either!! And as a consequence of these ‘rescue funds’ they want to reduce the EPL membership to 18, I.e jettison a couple of worthless clubs and give the ‘big 6’ special voting privileges so that it will be vertically impossible to out vote them on the key matters, like making themselves even more money! Sorry Old Firm I don’t see where you fit into this plan:wink:
This at first glance seems morally void but is not unexpected by the standards of the English Greed League.

[3pm]

Probably coincidental Newcastle’s takeover was blocked....

[Pagan Hibernia]

From my understanding it is a power grab by Liverpool/Manchester United. They appear to be using the world killer pandemic COVID-19 and the resulting financial hardship on much smaller EFL clubs to increase their voting power and ultimately wealth at the others expense by offering them a loan, not a gift but a loan and not their money either!! And as a consequence of these ‘rescue funds’ they want to reduce the EPL membership to 18, I.e jettison a couple of worthless clubs and give the ‘big 6’ special voting privileges so that it will be vertically impossible to out vote them on the key matters, like making themselves even more money! Sorry Old Firm I don’t see where you fit into this plan:wink:
This at first glance seems morally void but is not unexpected by the standards of the English Greed League.


This post is spot on.

disgusting move by the ‘elite’... some of whom haven’t won a title in decades

[Paul1642]

Bring on a European “Super League” and let the rest of the fans enjoy a fairer more competitive game.

[Paul1642]

Bring on a European “Super League” and let the rest of the fans enjoy a fairer more competitive game.

[FilipinoHibs]

I don't know about voting rights or distribution of TV money but the main proposals seem to be reduce EPL to 18 and scrap the league cup and community shield to reduce number of games and increase purse for teams in EPL. As an aside virtually no chance of Glasgow's ugly brothers joining EPL.

There is also a proposal of £259 million bailout for the EFL and 25% of all future TV revenues.

All this in exchange for 9 clubs controlling club football in England.

Looks like a plan to make room for more European fixtures. Needs 14 of 20 EPL to get approval so looks unlikely to pass - Turkeys voting for Christmas.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

9 clubs to get special rights and protection, what on earth will the old firm be dreaming up today I wonder/dread?

Who are the 'protected 9'? The so called big six obviously and I would imagine Everton but who else?

[NAE NOOKIE]

If this comes to pass all you can say to our English chums is, welcome to our world. The only difference between our league and theirs will be we have two clubs running everything, bleeding everybody else dry and doing what they want ..... they will have 6.

Nobody else has mentioned it, but surely this would lead to a root and branch reorganisation of the other leagues, you couldn't have a championship of 26 clubs, the 24 they have now is mental. IMO they would have to create a 4th England wide league giving 4 leagues of 18 teams each. That would require each of the 3 existing EFL leagues to relegate 6 clubs with no promotion.

Or I suppose they could have 4 leagues of 20 and make up league 4 with 8 clubs from the regional leagues ... but that still leaves having to tell 10 clubs in EFL2 they are now in EFL3.

Apart from 8 clubs in the 5th tier of English football I cant see any of that making any clubs happy.

[CMurdoch]

That league lost it's soul a long time ago.
It's just a money pit, just another investment opportunity.
All owned by foreign businesses and corporations with no real interest in the game or the fans or the towns and cities in which they have sat since their inceptions over a hundred years ago.

The old English Division 1 was a great league.
England no longer has clubs and a league that supporters can get behind just a nasty dressed up money making machine.
The EPL is hell.
It's got no soul.

[Bostonhibby]

It’s a horrible power grab by the big boys. Dangling a bit of cash in the lower leagues hour of need in exchange for a smaller Premier league, less chance of relegation, no league cup and the power to make all the big decisions within “the big 6”.
Horrible move.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYep, even in the times we live in the greedy can't resist an opportunity.

The EPL is a money cesspool anyway with the worst hobbies floating around as owners and directors but this is another step in the wrong direction. How Spurs qualify is an absolute mystery.

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[Since452]

9 clubs to get special rights and protection, what on earth will the old firm be dreaming up today I wonder/dread?

Who are the 'protected 9'? The so called big six obviously and I would imagine Everton but who else?

Celtic, Rangers and Hearts

[FilipinoHibs]

That league lost it's soul a long time ago.
It's just a money pit, just another investment opportunity.
All owned by foreign businesses and corporations with no real interest in the game or the fans or the towns and cities in which they have always sat.

The old English Division 1 was a great league.
England no longer has clubs and a league that supporters can get behind just a nasty dressed up money making machine.
The EPL is hell.
It's got no soul.

Yes I followed it in 60s and 70s. Had real roots and many more English, Scots and Welsh players which led to strong national teams. Think of the characters that played then with amazing skills. Can you think of anyone in that mould now in the EPL?

[Smartie]

That league lost it's soul a long time ago.
It's just a money pit, just another investment opportunity.
All owned by foreign businesses and corporations with no real interest in the game or the fans or the towns and cities in which they have always sat.

The old English Division 1 was a great league.
England no longer has clubs and a league that supporters can get behind just a nasty dressed up money making machine.
The EPL is hell.
It's got no soul.

It was great, and it has gradually lost everything that made it great in the first place.

I actually hate it now. Soulless corporate garbage with nothing you can relate to.

The Championship - the battle to get into the promised land - is a more appealing competition.

If I lived down South I’d probably support a local non-league club. England has an amazing footballing heritage and it still lives on in many places.

You won’t find any trace of it in the EPL any more though.

[Alan62]

It isn't really an English league anymore. It's more an international league that operates in England. It will be interesting to see what impact Brexit has on English football.

What's really fascinating that the richer the football ecosystem, the more likely it is to try to work against sporting meritocracy. The 'big boys' just try to protect their interests, and ability to make money, at all costs. All that does is make it boring as a sport because the element of surprise and uncertainty is removed. I hardly watch English football these days and I absolutely definitely wouldn't pay to watch it.

[Pagan Hibernia]

It isn't really an English league anymore. It's more an international league that operates in England. It will be interesting to see what impact Brexit has on English football.

What's really fascinating that the richer the football ecosystem, the more likely it is to try to work against sporting meritocracy. The 'big boys' just try to protect their interests, and ability to make money, at all costs. All that does is make it boring as a sport because the element of surprise and uncertainty is removed. I hardly watch English football these days and I absolutely definitely wouldn't pay to watch it.

I agree that the wealth and greed down there is an absolute turnoff, but I wouldt say the element of surprise is gone. Aston Villa vs Liverpool a week ago... did anyone see that coming? And of course it’s only 4 seasons since Leicester won the league. Compare that to Scotland...

[Newry Hibs]

... They appear to be using the world killer pandemic COVID-19 and the resulting financial hardship on much smaller EFL clubs to increase their voting power and ultimately wealth at the others expense by offering them a loan, ....

As the saying goes... 'Never let a good crisis go to waste'

[Scott Allan Key]

Probably coincidental Newcastle’s takeover was blocked....That it wasn't blocked because the takeover's main antagonist was a murderer but because of pirated broadcasting rights says everything about the EPL. Utter crooks.

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[bawheid]

It isn't really an English league anymore. It's more an international league that operates in England. It will be interesting to see what impact Brexit has on English football.

What's really fascinating that the richer the football ecosystem, the more likely it is to try to work against sporting meritocracy. The 'big boys' just try to protect their interests, and ability to make money, at all costs. All that does is make it boring as a sport because the element of surprise and uncertainty is removed. I hardly watch English football these days and I absolutely definitely wouldn't pay to watch it.

Agree, I actually much prefer watching Scottish games even though the standard is (apparently) poorer. Give me blood and thunder Motherwell v Dundee United over Crystal Palace Wolves any day.

Champions League has gone the same way. A total bore fest made up of the same teams every year. Can’t remember the last time I watched a game. Zzzzzzzzzzz.

[Keith_M]

9 clubs to get special rights and protection, what on earth will the old firm be dreaming up today I wonder/dread?

Who are the 'protected 9'? The so called big six obviously and I would imagine Everton but who else?


AFAIK, the Top Nine is (supposedly) based on the number of seasons spent in the Premier... except that Manchester City don't actually qualify under that criteria.

So, it's actually the Top Six (richest clubs and/or owners); plus the three other clubs that were chosen based on how many seasons they've spent in the premier league.

[Smartie]

It would be great if there could be some sort of counter revolution where the rest of English football told the 6 or 9 to ram it, that they would then pool and redistribute resources far more evenly and you can either like it or make up your own crap 6 team league. Oh, and we’ll keep the European spots.

This truly stinks.

[wandering_hibee]

I actually think that there is a place for Celtic and Rangers in this. Sky would probably welcome their addition as they could then jettison the rest of Scottish Football and there is definitely a reasonable audience for the old firm game around the world.
EPL would probably love it as they would perceive their appeal to be growing.
We might end up with a far better set up in Scotland.

[CMurdoch]

Yes I followed it in 60s and 70s. Had real roots and many more English, Scots and Welsh players which led to strong national teams. Think of the characters that played then with amazing skills. Can you think of anyone in that mould now in the EPL?


It was great, and it has gradually lost everything that made it great in the first place.

I actually hate it now. Soulless corporate garbage with nothing you can relate to.

The Championship - the battle to get into the promised land - is a more appealing competition.

If I lived down South I’d probably support a local non-league club. England has an amazing footballing heritage and it still lives on in many places.

You won’t find any trace of it in the EPL any more though.

The corporate world sucks the life out of everything in the quest for a bigger and bigger return. They chase money and power and enough is never enough.
The EPL is the devil with a sexy face.

As an aside, I was on holiday in America for the first time about 30 years ago and was desperate to go to an NFL game.
I made arrangements and travelled on a tourist bus to the game. We arrived early and I got speaking to the driver and asked whether he supported the home team (Tampa Bay Buccaneers). He told me he loved Football but wasn't interested in the NFL anymore preferring to attend college and minor league games. The money and corporate nature of the game had just killed his interest in the NFL and he no longer felt a connection to it. I didn't really understand what he meant at the time but it rings true since the EPL, Primera Liga, Serie A & UEFA killed the game and substituted it with a quest for the accumulation of wealth and power.

[PatHead]

The corporate world sucks the life out of everything in the quest for a bigger and bigger return. They just follow the money and enough is never enough.
The EPL is just the devil with a sexy face.

As an aside, I was on holiday in America for the first time about 30 years ago and was desperate to go to an NFL game.
I made arrangements and travelled on a bus to a game. We arrived early and I got speaking to the driver and asked whether he supported the home team (Tampa Bay Buccaneers). He told me he loved Football but wasn't interested in the NFL anymore preferring to attend college and minor league games. The money and corporate nature of the game had just killed his interest in the NFL over the years and he now felt no connection to it. I didn't really understand what he meant at the time but it rings true since the EPL & UEFA killed the game and made it all about the accumulation of wealth.
When I was young I took a big interest in the English First Division as it was. Remember lots of players who were in it and match reports.

Initially when the Big Match on ITV came out I was gutted that I couldn't see it in Scotland. Then SKY arrived and games were on 24/7. It made me realise that English football wasn't that great and the more foreigners that came into the game, the less I related to it. I missed Scottish players at almost every club. Maybe it wasn't as good as it was made out to be in the Shoot, Goal or the Topical Times. Suppose England not qualifying for the World Cup in 74 and 78 backs that up.

Don't have Sky anymore and don't miss the games. There will always be exceptions but the big games I saw latterly tended to see each of them cancel each other out and it is a dull, nothing game.

I think that soon enough it will be European leagues with them having a B team in the Premiership. A bit like what Rantric want here.

[Magpie]

I actually think that there is a place for Celtic and Rangers in this. Sky would probably welcome their addition as they could then jettison the rest of Scottish Football and there is definitely a reasonable audience for the old firm game around the world.
EPL would probably love it as they would perceive their appeal to be growing.
We might end up with a far better set up in Scotland.

If Celtic and Rangers were to leave the Scottish game, would we get as much revenue from broadcasters? And how would clubs be affected by not receiving their usual ticket sales from Celtic and Rangers?

[JohnMcM]

Just heard on the radio (Talk) that they are also proposing a halt to 'parachute payments'. It's unclear if that money would be distributed to all English lower leagues, or if it would be added to the pot that is divided up amongst the EPL teams.

[Numptie]

Th big 6 plus Everton, Southampton and West Ham would get special voting rights. West Ham already said they don't agree with the deal. Also these clubs get to sell 8 of their games per season on their own channels.

[MyJo]

If Celtic and Rangers were to leave the Scottish game, would we get as much revenue from broadcasters? And how would clubs be affected by not receiving their usual ticket sales from Celtic and Rangers?

How much of the current broadcast deal ends up in the pockets of Rangers and Celtic anyway given that its their games that are always shown?

Even if we got a broadcast deal that was less in overall value doesn't mean that the non-OF teams would end up with less money from it.

It would then be up to us to ensure that Scottish football is structured to be competitive and engaging moving forward to get broadcast deals on the merits of the league as a whole rather than pandering to just two clubs.

Get a league set-up that shares sponsorship and broadcast money equally across the league with less emphasis on prize money for league positions so any clubs finishing first or second consistently can't open up such a massive financial gap to the rest of the league as we have seen with the OF.

[Bishop Hibee]

The next stage of Champions League changes will be another step along the road to a Euro league with the ‘big’ teams further insulated from ever not qualifying. I enjoy watching football at any level but the soulless corporate greed if the EPL puts me off watching as much as I used to.

[Phil MaGlass]

If Celtic and Rangers were to leave the Scottish game, would we get as much revenue from broadcasters? And how would clubs be affected by not receiving their usual ticket sales from Celtic and Rangers?

If I'm honest if sellik and the The were to leave, I honestly couldnae gie a f what we got from broadcasters.

[CMurdoch]

If Celtic and Rangers were to leave the Scottish game, would we get as much revenue from broadcasters? And how would clubs be affected by not receiving their usual ticket sales from Celtic and Rangers?

Sadly the TV companies wouldn't be interested in the SPFL without the Old Firm.
The BBC would chuck a few quid at it but nothing like the clubs receive at the moment from Sky.
Fortunately they are stuck here for the foreseeable ...............whether they like it or not.

[Hibs07p]

How much of the current broadcast deal ends up in the pockets of Rangers and Celtic anyway given that its their games that are always shown?

Even if we got a broadcast deal that was less in overall value doesn't mean that the non-OF teams would end up with less money from it.

It would then be up to us to ensure that Scottish football is structured to be competitive and engaging moving forward to get broadcast deals on the merits of the league as a whole rather than pandering to just two clubs.

Get a league set-up that shares sponsorship and broadcast money equally across the league with less emphasis on prize money for league positions so any clubs finishing first or second consistently can't open up such a massive financial gap to the rest of the league as we have seen with the OF.

It would be interesting to see their opinion if every celger home game was shown instead.

GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016

[Pagan Hibernia]

Do people really want Celtic and Rangers to leave here?

much as I dislike them it would render the title ‘Champions of Scotland’ pretty empty and meaningless without them

[Sioux]

Do people really want Celtic and Rangers to leave here?

much as I dislike them it would render the title ‘Champions of Scotland’ pretty empty and meaningless without them

No one will need to worry about that for the foreseeable future.

[Eyrie]

The good bits of the proposal are outweighed by the bad ie the power grab voting system and protectionism by scrapping the parachute payments.

[murray26]

Do people really want Celtic and Rangers to leave here?

much as I dislike them it would render the title ‘Champions of Scotland’ pretty empty and meaningless without them

Does it matter..? There’s only ever going to be two possible winners.

[Scouse Hibee]

Do people really want Celtic and Rangers to leave here?

much as I dislike them it would render the title ‘Champions of Scotland’ pretty empty and meaningless without them

No more meaningless for the rest than it is now.

[MyJo]

Do people really want Celtic and Rangers to leave here?

much as I dislike them it would render the title ‘Champions of Scotland’ pretty empty and meaningless without them


That title has been empty and meaningless to everyone apart from Celtic and Rangers for about 30 years now.

I would rather celebrate winning a league that doesn't contain the old firm than celebrate finishing third

[Pagan Hibernia]

Does it matter..? There’s only ever going to be two possible winners.

thats the spirit!

I’m in my late 30s. Do I think I’ll ever see Hibs win the league in my lifetime? Honestly, no I don’t.

30 years ago when we were nearly dead, with an eyesore of a ground and no Scottish cup for the best part of a century... did I think I’d see us in a beautiful stadium, as one of the best run clubs in the country and the Scottish cup safely tucked away in the record books? Absolutely not.

over time things can change in football. I don’t think we’ll ever win the league again but there’s that part of me that says never say never.

[The_Exile]

What’s the voting system up here these days?

[DetroitHibs]

I used to follow most leagues world wide closely, now I just don't care. I watch Hibs and will stick on the odd game if it's on.

[FilipinoHibs]

What’s the voting system up here these days?

SPL you need an 11-1 majority so the ugly Glasgow brothers can block anything.

[Killiehibbie]

That title has been empty and meaningless to everyone apart from Celtic and Rangers for about 30 years now.

I would rather celebrate winning a league that doesn't contain the old firm than celebrate finishing third

Apart from the early 80's it's been one of them all my life.

[hibbysam]

AFAIK, the Top Nine is (supposedly) based on the number of seasons spent in the Premier... except that Manchester City don't actually qualify under that criteria.

So, it's actually the Top Six (richest clubs and/or owners); plus the three other clubs that were chosen based on how many seasons they've spent in the premier league.

Fairly sure it’s number of seasons consecutively and Man City have been there since 2002. West Ham and Newcastle for example have spent time in the lower leagues.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Apart from the early 80's it's been one of them all my life.

have you forgotten hearts winning it in 86?

[green&left]

SPL you need an 11-1 majority so the ugly Glasgow brothers can block anything.


If this comes to pass all you can say to our English chums is, welcome to our world. The only difference between our league and theirs will be we have two clubs running everything, bleeding everybody else dry and doing what they want ..... they will have 6.

Nobody else has mentioned it, but surely this would lead to a root and branch reorganisation of the other leagues, you couldn't have a championship of 26 clubs, the 24 they have now is mental. IMO they would have to create a 4th England wide league giving 4 leagues of 18 teams each. That would require each of the 3 existing EFL leagues to relegate 6 clubs with no promotion.

Or I suppose they could have 4 leagues of 20 and make up league 4 with 8 clubs from the regional leagues ... but that still leaves having to tell 10 clubs in EFL2 they are now in EFL3.

Apart from 8 clubs in the 5th tier of English football I cant see any of that making any clubs happy.

Except it was Aberdeen with Celtic that voted to keep the 11-1 voting structure in place

[Keith_M]

Except it was Aberdeen with Celtic that voted to keep the 11-1 voting structure in place


Yep, Aberdeen must have thought they were going to be the replacement for Rangers and voted totally out of self interest.

[PatHead]

Yep, Aberdeen must have thought they were going to be the replacement for Rangers and voted totally out of self interest.

Stewart Milne didn't agree with proposals being put forward
. As far as I can remember it was about something which wasn't massively important and he was in a minority of one with his suggestion. He basically threw his toys out of the pram and voted to keep the voting structure. It was all down to his ego.

[DH1875]

That title has been empty and meaningless to everyone apart from Celtic and Rangers for about 30 years now.

I would rather celebrate winning a league that doesn't contain the old firm than celebrate finishing third

And what happens when we don't win the league and Aberdeen win it 2,3,4,5 years in a row?

[DH1875]

Th big 6 plus Everton, Southampton and West Ham would get special voting rights. West Ham already said they don't agree with the deal. Also these clubs get to sell 8 of their games per season on their own channels.


Everton, Southampton and West Ham? Why are they involved? Think we could all argue all day and most folk would come up with a different list of their top 9 EPL teams.

[Pagan Hibernia]

That title has been empty and meaningless to everyone apart from Celtic and Rangers for about 30 years now.

I would rather celebrate winning a league that doesn't contain the old firm than celebrate finishing third

you’d still be celebrating being the third best team in the country. The title would mean no more than that.

[lucky]

If the Old Firm left Scottish football it would be the death nail for the rest of the clubs. Broadcasters, sponsorship and new young fans would turn their back on it. It would end up like the Welsh league where all their big clubs play in another country. It’s difficult for clubs to challenge the OF but that does mean we give up and sell out Scottish football.

[Andy74]

And what happens when we don't win the league and Aberdeen win it 2,3,4,5 years in a row?

We win it in year 6?

It is far more likely to be more competitive than the 2 that can win it now.

We know Scotland isn’t unique in having dominant clubs but it is fairly unusual in the circumstances of them having support in every part of the country due to reasons out with football.

I think it would create its own interest to have genuine title battles with the remaining teams.

[Andy74]

If the Old Firm left Scottish football it would be the death nail for the rest of the clubs. Broadcasters, sponsorship and new young fans would turn their back on it. It would end up like the Welsh league where all their big clubs play in another country. It’s difficult for clubs to challenge the OF but that does mean we give up and sell out Scottish football.

What benefit are we getting from the current structure? With the broadcast and sponsorship we can still only get 3rd at best and very occasional European football.

Yes it might be lower key overall but we have clubs that are still big enough in their own right for it to have attention. Do the remaining Welsh leagues have clubs with history and fan bases equivalent to Hibs. Hearts, Aberdeen etc?

Actually, just looked up. The current champions have a 1500 capacity stadium. We have teams well down our league system bigger than that.

[The Modfather]

If the Old Firm left Scottish football it would be the death nail for the rest of the clubs. Broadcasters, sponsorship and new young fans would turn their back on it. It would end up like the Welsh league where all their big clubs play in another country. It’s difficult for clubs to challenge the OF but that does mean we give up and sell out Scottish football.

I’m not so sure. Mid-long term how would the novelty of the Old Firm playing in England last when they are no longer guaranteed trophies every year. It took Liverpool 30 years to win the league, Arsenal and Man U long runs since their last title and still no closer. How appealing to the future generations is a cup maybe every 5/10 years and maybe making the top 4 every so often. What’s the pull for those future generations to support the Old Firm over going to see their local club or supporting one of the other big teams in England from afar?

Neil Doncaster predicted armageddon when Rangers went bust, yet attendances went up during that period. There would be a levelling out in Scottish football on the short term, but I don’t see why attendances at all clubs wouldn’t hold up and perhaps grow in time. We all play a league within a league as it is without anyone outside of Scotland caring about what goes on outside of Glasgow so not sure how different them leaving would really be.

[DH1875]

We win it in year 6?

It is far more likely to be more competitive than the 2 that can win it now.

We know Scotland isn’t unique in having dominant clubs but it is fairly unusual in the circumstances of them having support in every part of the country due to reasons out with football.

I think it would create its own interest to have genuine title battles with the remaining teams.

And hearts win it in year 6,7 and 8. Our fan base would dwindle and people would lose interest. If Aberdeen did win it first few years, what the story with champions league. Any money they made would pull them further away from us. They proven before they'd gamble and go for it when they voted to keep the 11-1 structure.
And.....do people not realise, rangers and celtic would still be here. They would still only be an hour's drive from Edinburgh. If folk think losing fans to them is bad just now, wait till their in the EPL and god forbid, challenging in that. They'd still be playing every week and the buses would still be leaving from Aberdeen, Dundee and Edinburgh every weekend for Glagow.

[Andy74]

And hearts win it in year 6,7 and 8. Our fan base would dwindle and people would lose interest. If Aberdeen did win it first few years, what the story with champions league. Any money they made would pull them further away from us. They proven before they'd gamble and go for it when they voted to keep the 11-1 structure.
And.....do people not realise, rangers and celtic would still be here. They would still only be an hour's drive from Edinburgh. If folk think losing fans to them is bad just now, wait till their in the EPL and god forbid, challenging in that. They'd still be playing every week and the buses would still be leaving from Aberdeen, Dundee and Edinburgh every weekend for Glagow.

If you are making the assumption we are never going to compete then why bother at all? It’s certainly not any better now and the support isn’t dwindling.

Take this year, minus the Old Firm you have Hibs and Aberdeen battling for the title. Can’t rule out other clubs getting involved.

If Hearts sort themselves out at some stage, Motherwell have had spells, Kilmarnock, Dundee Utd could get there.

Slightly more interesting than a race to top six then 3rd or 4th place.

[Onion]

From my understanding it is a power grab by Liverpool/Manchester United. They appear to be using the world killer pandemic COVID-19 and the resulting financial hardship on much smaller EFL clubs to increase their voting power and ultimately wealth at the others expense by offering them a loan, not a gift but a loan and not their money either!! And as a consequence of these ‘rescue funds’ they want to reduce the EPL membership to 18, I.e jettison a couple of worthless clubs and give the ‘big 6’ special voting privileges so that it will be vertically impossible to out vote them on the key matters, like making themselves even more money! Sorry Old Firm I don’t see where you fit into this plan:wink:
This at first glance seems morally void but is not unexpected by the standards of the English Greed League.

Quite the opposite. If money is the driver and power is concentrated in the hands of a few, then there's more chance of the OF being invited into the warm waters of the EPL - with little that the smaller (affected) clubs can do about it. It is the voting powers of the smaller EPL clubs that's blocking the OF. Sky / BT would love it.

[DH1875]

I’m not so sure. Mid-long term how would the novelty of the Old Firm playing in England last when they are no longer guaranteed trophies every year. It took Liverpool 30 years to win the league, Arsenal and Man U long runs since their last title and still no closer. How appealing to the future generations is a cup maybe every 5/10 years and maybe making the top 4 every so often. What’s the pull for those future generations to support the Old Firm over going to see their local club or supporting one of the other big teams in England from afar?

Neil Doncaster predicted armageddon when Rangers went bust, yet attendances went up during that period. There would be a levelling out in Scottish football on the short term, but I don’t see why attendances at all clubs wouldn’t hold up and perhaps grow in time. We all play a league within a league as it is without anyone outside of Scotland caring about what goes on outside of Glasgow so not sure how different them leaving would really be.

Did Liverpool, Arsenal or Man Utd lose much of their fan base during those periods of time? Just my opinion but put them into the premier league and they become massive, up there with biggest clubs in the world. With the money and investment that would be open to them they wouldn't be mid table for long. Let's not forget that while winning the title is massive, it's all about being top 4 in the EPL. Celtic and rangers would be competing for top 4 within 5/10 years no problem.
And like I said before, if that were to happen, we lose more fans to them than we do now.

[DH1875]

If you are making the assumption we are never going to compete then why bother at all? It’s certainly not any better now and the support isn’t dwindling.

Because I'm a Hibs fan. On and off I've been going to Easter Rd for 28 years. Other than when we've played in the 1st division I've never assumed we would challenge to win the league. Would think where we are is acceptable to most of us because its the norm and what we are used to/know. If Celtic and rangers were to leave for the EPL and Aberdeen were winning the spl every year then that's when our fan base would start to dwindle.

[Killiehibbie]

have you forgotten hearts winning it in 86?

You switch the radio off at 430 that day?

[The Modfather]

Did Liverpool, Arsenal or Man Utd lose much of their fan base during those periods of time? Just my opinion but put them into the premier league and they become massive, up there with biggest clubs in the world. With the money and investment that would be open to them they wouldn't be mid table for long. Let's not forget that while winning the title is massive, it's all about being top 4 in the EPL. Celtic and rangers would be competing for top 4 within 5/10 years no problem.
And like I said before, if that were to happen, we lose more fans to them than we do now.

Celtic & Rangers have been guaranteed trophies every season for most of their existence and that, as well as the sectarianism, is their appeal. I don’t doubt they would be challenging for the top 4 before long, them and 5 or 6 others. They would become any one of 8 clubs that could put in a title challenge in a good season, or struggle for the Europa in a bad season. Trophies become a rarity rather than a given. Mid-long term, what’s to make a young glory hunter support the old firm rather than any of the other big clubs.

More generally, I think Scottish football would do just fine and wouldn’t look too dissimilar to the league within the league that we already play in,

[Keith_M]

You switch the radio off at 430 that day?


I can't answer for him but I was in the East Terrace at ER, bouncing up and down with the other 4,000 or so Hibbies that attended our game v Dundee United.

[superfurryhibby]

Did Liverpool, Arsenal or Man Utd lose much of their fan base during those periods of time? Just my opinion but put them into the premier league and they become massive, up there with biggest clubs in the world. With the money and investment that would be open to them they wouldn't be mid table for long. Let's not forget that while winning the title is massive, it's all about being top 4 in the EPL. Celtic and rangers would be competing for top 4 within 5/10 years no problem.
And like I said before, if that were to happen, we lose more fans to them than we do now.

Your hypothesis is all guess work and very speculative at that. I would agree that they would have the potential to become a big EPL club, but they also carry a lot of baggage and in order to make the top four they would be competing with Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man U, Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal. That's seven clubs who are already entrenched where the OF would aspire to be. Add in the dark horses like Leicester and sleeping giants, like Villa and Leeds. I think there are a lot of variables and no guarantee at all that either of the erse cheeks would be anywhere near top 4.

Personally, I would love to see them go and revel in the angst created by their repeat failing to get near the top teams.

Scottish football needs reform. Too many clubs, not enough pie to share. Tradition is a great thing, but you have to ask why areas as populated as Fife, The Borders, Stirlingshire and the greater Falkirk area have no top flight teams. I have the feeling that Covid will see a lot of teams that hang on by the skin of their teeth, go to the wall or be forced to play in a different set up. Saying good riddance to the OF might just be a catalyst for a new dynamic. 35 years of utter dominance of the title is strangling the life out of our game.

[Killiehibbie]

I can't answer for him but I was in the East Terrace at ER, bouncing up and down with the other 4,000 or so Hibbies that attended our game v Dundee United.

That's when the party started and continued for a while.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Are there any genuinely competitive top leagues anywhere nowadays?
Every country in Europe and further a field is dominated by a big 2, 3 or 4. Hell France is now dominated by just the one club.i
If the old firm got their wish and could leave we would be no different as more than likely Aberdeen, Hearts and ourselves would generally win nearly everything and gobble up most of whatever European and domestic sponsorship monies were available, would that be a great model? Would that enthuse fans of St.Johnstone, Morton Inverness or whoever?
Also being part of a powefull 2 or 3 dominant teams is no guarantee of success. Sporting have one just the one league title in the last 20 years, it's something similar in the Netherlands for Feyenoord.
Does 20 years of potentially Dons and Hearts title parties fill you with excitement?

[DH1875]

Your hypothesis is all guess work and very speculative at that. I would agree that they would have the potential to become a big EPL club, but they also carry a lot of baggage and in order to make the top four they would be competing with Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man U, Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal. That's seven clubs who are already entrenched where the OF would aspire to be. Add in the dark horses like Leicester and sleeping giants, like Villa and Leeds. I think there are a lot of variables and no guarantee at all that either of the erse cheeks would be anywhere near top 4.

Personally, I would love to see them go and revel in the angst created by their repeat failing to get near the top teams.

Scottish football needs reform. Too many clubs, not enough pie to share. Tradition is a great thing, but you have to ask why areas as populated as Fife, The Borders, Stirlingshire and the greater Falkirk area have no top flight teams. I have the feeling that Covid will see a lot of teams that hang on by the skin of their teeth, go to the wall or be forced to play in a different set up. Saying good riddance to the OF might just be a catalyst for a new dynamic. 35 years of utter dominance of the title is strangling the life out of our game.

Of course it's guess work and speculation but then so is saying They'd continually fail to get near the top teams or that we would win the league if they weren't in it. It's just my opinion, that's all it is and in my opinion they'd eventually challenge for top 4 in the EPL and when that happened They'd become monsters. Again this is just my opinion but for me the real reason we will never see them in the EPL is because the EPL teams don't want them. Other than Man Utd, Liverpool and maybe Arsenal, Celtic would become bigger than the rest including Chelsea and Man city never mind Villa and Leeds.

Back on topic, why would Everton, West Ham and Southampton be in the 9 clubs with clubs like Villa and Leeds are bigger clubs who play in the EPL.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Of course it's guess work and speculation but then so is saying They'd continually fail to get near the top teams or that we would win the league if they weren't in it. It's just my opinion, that's all it is and in my opinion they'd eventually challenge for top 4 in the EPL and when that happened They'd become monsters. Again this is just my opinion but for me the real reason we will never see them in the EPL is because the EPL teams don't want them. Other than Man Utd, Liverpool and maybe Arsenal, Celtic would become bigger than the rest including Chelsea and Man city never mind Villa and Leeds.

Back on topic, why would Everton, West Ham and Southampton be in the 9 clubs with clubs like Villa and Leeds are bigger clubs who play in the EPL.

Everton are a massive club both now and historically, something like just one season out of the top flight ever? They are streets ahead of Leeds, Newcastle ect in stature and what they have brought to the table over the last century.
I was a kid of the eighties and then it was a big 5. Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Man Utd and Everton.
The fact is you could go to any era of English football apart from the most recent Premiership years and Everton would be regarded as a big 4, 5 or whatever club.
They are certainly more deserving of special rights than Man City.

[DH1875]

Are there any genuinely competitive top leagues anywhere nowadays?
Every country in Europe and further a field is dominated by a big 2, 3 or 4. Hell France is now dominated by just the one club.i
If the old firm got their wish and could leave we would be no different as more than likely Aberdeen, Hearts and ourselves would generally win nearly everything and gobble up most of whatever European and domestic sponsorship monies were available, would that be a great model? Would that enthuse fans of St.Johnstone, Morton Inverness or whoever?
Also being part of a powefull 2 or 3 dominant teams is no guarantee of success. Sporting have one just the one league title in the last 20 years, it's something similar in the Netherlands for Feyenoord.
Does 20 years of potentially Dons and Hearts title parties fill you with excitement?

100% spot on.
Also Real Madrid and Barca have supporters clubs all over Spain. Juve have supporters clubs all over Italy. PSG have supporters clubs all over France. Benfica have supporters clubs all over Portugal. Man Utd have supporters clubs leaving London every week for their games. It's not only in Scotland that people from all over the country decide to follow the top teams.

[FilipinoHibs]

Not looking good in EFL :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54516180

[DH1875]

Everton are a massive club both now and historically, something like just one season out of the top flight ever? They are streets ahead of Leeds, Newcastle ect in stature and what they have brought to the table over the last century.
I was a kid of the eighties and then it was a big 5. Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Man Utd and Everton.
The fact is you could go to any era of English football apart from the most recent Premiership years and Everton would be regarded as a big 4, 5 or whatever club.
They are certainly more deserving of special rights than Man City.

Yeah, Everton probably would be in my top nine but Southampton and West Ham? Not having it. Leeds are just an example but for me their a bigger club than Southampton or West Ham.
As for Man City, they are what they are. To me though their just an example of where celtic and rangers could end up if they were to ever get into the EPL. Bigger clubs to start with and then given that budget.......its no wonder their fans want it. Just a pitty it'll never happen :greengrin

[Andy74]

Are there any genuinely competitive top leagues anywhere nowadays?
Every country in Europe and further a field is dominated by a big 2, 3 or 4. Hell France is now dominated by just the one club.i
If the old firm got their wish and could leave we would be no different as more than likely Aberdeen, Hearts and ourselves would generally win nearly everything and gobble up most of whatever European and domestic sponsorship monies were available, would that be a great model? Would that enthuse fans of St.Johnstone, Morton Inverness or whoever?
Also being part of a powefull 2 or 3 dominant teams is no guarantee of success. Sporting have one just the one league title in the last 20 years, it's something similar in the Netherlands for Feyenoord.
Does 20 years of potentially Dons and Hearts title parties fill you with excitement?

Hearts just got relegated. Motherwell have had their turn in the top places as have Kilmarnock. We’ve finished 3rd or 4th only rarely. It would be much more open over a longer period than you suggest and certainly very different to two teams that get their support from every town in the country. Hibs, Aberdeen etc could not replicate that and outgrow.

[DH1875]

Hearts just got relegated. Motherwell have had their turn in the top places as have Kilmarnock. We’ve finished 3rd or 4th only rarely. It would be much more open over a longer period than you suggest and certainly very different to two teams that get their support from every town in the country. Hibs, Aberdeen etc could not replicate that and outgrow.

How many times have we finished 3rd in last 20 years? Who says Motherwell and Kilmarnock have had their turn? Hearts, basket case club so who knows where they'd end up. Aberdeen have potential to draw fans from central belt but even then I'm not sure they'd het 20k+ every week over a period of time even if they were winning the league (Without rangers and celtic). IF we were winning the league every year we might have a chance. Get more fans coming to our games every week and getting all the money. Great for us but then it would be us monopolizing Scottish football and that would be even worse for Scottish football than where we are now. Are folk from Kilmarnock and Motherwell gonna stop supporting rangers and celtic cause their in the EPL? Of course not. If anything even more folk will follow them.

[Lago]

And hearts win it in year 6,7 and 8. Our fan base would dwindle and people would lose interest. If Aberdeen did win it first few years, what the story with champions league. Any money they made would pull them further away from us. They proven before they'd gamble and go for it when they voted to keep the 11-1 structure.
And.....do people not realise, rangers and celtic would still be here. They would still only be an hour's drive from Edinburgh. If folk think losing fans to them is bad just now, wait till their in the EPL and god forbid, challenging in that. They'd still be playing every week and the buses would still be leaving from Aberdeen, Dundee and Edinburgh every weekend for Glagow.
Correct, and every sports report, written or TV would headline Celtic & Rangers, versus, take your pick, Spurs, Arsenal, Man U etc and only playing each other twice.

[chippy]

Don’t think this reform opens the door for Celtic and Rangers. It’s explicit that it’s more to do with more European games, so it will likely hasten Euro Leagues. Reducing EPL to 18 and I suspect in time no relegation - why would they want Celtic/ Rangers as competition.Also it’s feasible that no EFL clubs will ever again be promoted to the EPL. So to much of a risk for ‘OF’ to join them.
The apparent money on offer to the EPL may just swing it as many clubs are desperate. Makes me think there may well be a huge sugar daddy in the background that may buy up the EPL league. That’s happened in Rugby Union and hasn’t something similar happened with Serie A?

What should we do up here, especially Hibs? I think it highly likely the OF would get an invite into some sort of Euro League. Maybe Tier 2. One would hope that other Tiers will happen for the likes of us. I could foresee a 16 team National Pro league here, no relegation with up to half the clubs involved in Tiered Euro Leagues. Probably done on a regional basis like North/ East/ West Europe. In other words stopping the League Cup and reducing Scottish league games creates room for lots of European games without fear of relegation at home. Pros and cons sure but we will have to get our act together in Scotland to ensure we don’t become a total backwater

[Andy74]

How many times have we finished 3rd in last 20 years? Who says Motherwell and Kilmarnock have had their turn? Hearts, basket case club so who knows where they'd end up. Aberdeen have potential to draw fans from central belt but even then I'm not sure they'd het 20k+ every week over a period of time even if they were winning the league (Without rangers and celtic). IF we were winning the league every year we might have a chance. Get more fans coming to our games every week and getting all the money. Great for us but then it would be us monopolizing Scottish football and that would be even worse for Scottish football than where we are now. Are folk from Kilmarnock and Motherwell gonna stop supporting rangers and celtic cause their in the EPL? Of course not. If anything even more folk will follow them.
I don’t think you are following me.

I’m saying if you look at the rest of the teams we are all so up and down that it is highly unlikely that you’d have the seam team winning every year, or even from 2.

Motherwell and Kilmarnock have been in top 3 or 4s. We are rarely in there. Aberdeen have been consistent but that doesn’t have to last forever.

Why are you looking for over 20k every week and us winning every year to maintain interest? That doesn’t happen now.

Competitive leagues every year with teams like us actually challenging would create interest though.

Your are worrying about a monopoly that will never happen to support a current duopoly that is very much happening and has done for decades.

[superfurryhibby]

I don’t think you are following me.

I’m saying if you look at the rest of the teams we are all so up and down that it is highly unlikely that you’d have the seam team winning every year, or even from 2.

Motherwell and Kilmarnock have been in top 3 or 4s. We are rarely in there. Aberdeen have been consistent but that doesn’t have to last forever.

Why are you looking for over 20k every week and us winning every year to maintain interest? That doesn’t happen now.

Competitive leagues every year with teams like us actually challenging would create interest though.

Your are worrying about a monopoly that will never happen to support a current duopoly that is very much happening and has done for decades.

I'm with you on this. The Aberdeen drawing fans from the central belt is a bit of a myth. The crowds over the past 30 years support that. Outside of that decade which is their all time heyday, their attendances haven't been that brilliant, particularly for a one team city.

Two trophies in 30 years doesn't suggest to me that they are suddenly going to dominate Scottish football in the absence of the OF.

[DH1875]

OK so Aberdeen or Hibs win the league. Their/our gates are up as playing in front of full houses every week so we get extra income through the door. We then get the prize money and the extra money that comes from being champions. Then we get the European money. Following season it's us and Aberdeen at top again. Team that wins the league is the same team that won it year before. Again they/we get all the cash benefits of being champions. We/they use this cash to invest into the team to make them/us stronger so we win the 3rd year in a row. Heck even if we don't, let's give it to Aberdeen. How does this improve Scottish football? Your just replacing Celtic and rangers with us and Aberdeen. Are Motherwell, Kilmarnock, St. Johnstone, Hamilton, St Mirren fans gonna suddenly appear from nowhere and start following their teams because us and Aberdeen are suddenly winning the league? Are they gonna appear because they can finish 5th instead of 6th? The problem (if you can call it that) is that we look at this as Hibs fans. We see the appeal of maybe winning the league but what if we don't. What if it's Aberdeen and hearts winning it and pulling away? Whatever scenario, I'm sure the Ross county fans can't wait.
And as pointed out earlier in the thread. All this would be going on while rangers and celtic are in the EPL and maybe playing champions league football (automatic entry through EPL). They'd still have all the media attention, all the fans and all the money. If we had a player ripping up the league they'll still come and take him off us for buttons as the player will still want to go to them and they'll still have more money than us. When you put on the news or look at a newspaper it'll still be all about Celtic and rangers and outwith Edinburgh the next generation of fans will still grow up supporting them.

[JeMeSouviens]

9 clubs to get special rights and protection, what on earth will the old firm be dreaming up today I wonder/dread?

Who are the 'protected 9'? The so called big six obviously and I would imagine Everton but who else?

It's not a fixed 9, it's the current 9 longest serving PL clubs. As of now, Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton, West Ham and Southampton.

[JeMeSouviens]

OK so Aberdeen or Hibs win the league. Their/our gates are up as playing in front of full houses every week so we get extra income through the door. We then get the prize money and the extra money that comes from being champions. Then we get the European money. Following season it's us and Aberdeen at top again. Team that wins the league is the same team that won it year before. Again they/we get all the cash benefits of being champions. We/they use this cash to invest into the team to make them/us stronger so we win the 3rd year in a row. Heck even if we don't, let's give it to Aberdeen. How does this improve Scottish football? Your just replacing Celtic and rangers with us and Aberdeen. Are Motherwell, Kilmarnock, St. Johnstone, Hamilton, St Mirren fans gonna suddenly appear from nowhere and start following their teams because us and Aberdeen are suddenly winning the league? Are they gonna appear because they can finish 5th instead of 6th? The problem (if you can call it that) is that we look at this as Hibs fans. We see the appeal of maybe winning the league but what if we don't. What if it's Aberdeen and hearts winning it and pulling away? Whatever scenario, I'm sure the Ross county fans can't wait.
And as pointed out earlier in the thread. All this would be going on while rangers and celtic are in the EPL and maybe playing champions league football (automatic entry through EPL). They'd still have all the media attention, all the fans and all the money. If we had a player ripping up the league they'll still come and take him off us for buttons as the player will still want to go to them and they'll still have more money than us. When you put on the news or look at a newspaper it'll still be all about Celtic and rangers and outwith Edinburgh the next generation of fans will still grow up supporting them.

Agree with all that. If Celtc and Sevco leave Scottish football then we have to as well. What's left will be tumbleweed central in a few years.

[Since452]

Celtic and Rangers aren't going to be leaving Scottish football. We/they can dream all we/they want.

[jgl07]

Story being run on BBC that the "big" six are trying to reform English football.



Nothing to do with the 'big six'.

This is purely an initiative by Liverpool which Manchester United appear to have backed.

This will be Phase 1 of a plan to install a franchise system with no promotion or relegation.

The Liverpool place man Pric Parry appears to be a driving force behind this while supposedly the head of the EFL.

The proposal appears to have gone down as well a cup of cold sick.

Hopefully it will be buried without trace.

[Septimus]

The problem with all this is that the "restructuring" aims to benefit the "top" teams. Since it seems unlikely that any of these teams care about the likes of, for instance, Stirling Albion sufficiently to level them up measures should be taken to increase competition within the leagues by levelling down the "top" teams. How can we do this? First we should bring back division of match receipts equally between home and away teams. Secondly a system should be introduced where all teams must include, say, six players who have been born within a stipulated distance of that team's base. This might have the effect of reducing the scourge of the big two in Scotland creaming off the better players from the lesser teams and thus reducing competition.

It is now 77 years since I first entered Easter Road so I vaguely recall days of glory for Hibs in my youth. But I also recall days when Dundee, Falkirk, Raith Rovers, even Hearts etc. were teams to be reckoned with. When Scottish international players turned out for their team throughout a career and were local heroes.

The Scottish game can only be rebuilt by nurturing the grass roots. The teams which I spent my youth with at amateur, juvenile and junior level are now all gone. Why not tax the income of the "top" teams to spread the love of the game at its lowest levels where the game is actually played on a more level playing field.

[lord bunberry]

OK so Aberdeen or Hibs win the league. Their/our gates are up as playing in front of full houses every week so we get extra income through the door. We then get the prize money and the extra money that comes from being champions. Then we get the European money. Following season it's us and Aberdeen at top again. Team that wins the league is the same team that won it year before. Again they/we get all the cash benefits of being champions. We/they use this cash to invest into the team to make them/us stronger so we win the 3rd year in a row. Heck even if we don't, let's give it to Aberdeen. How does this improve Scottish football? Your just replacing Celtic and rangers with us and Aberdeen. Are Motherwell, Kilmarnock, St. Johnstone, Hamilton, St Mirren fans gonna suddenly appear from nowhere and start following their teams because us and Aberdeen are suddenly winning the league? Are they gonna appear because they can finish 5th instead of 6th? The problem (if you can call it that) is that we look at this as Hibs fans. We see the appeal of maybe winning the league but what if we don't. What if it's Aberdeen and hearts winning it and pulling away? Whatever scenario, I'm sure the Ross county fans can't wait.
And as pointed out earlier in the thread. All this would be going on while rangers and celtic are in the EPL and maybe playing champions league football (automatic entry through EPL). They'd still have all the media attention, all the fans and all the money. If we had a player ripping up the league they'll still come and take him off us for buttons as the player will still want to go to them and they'll still have more money than us. When you put on the news or look at a newspaper it'll still be all about Celtic and rangers and outwith Edinburgh the next generation of fans will still grow up supporting them.
Hibs, hearts or Aberdeen would never be able to dominate in the same way that the old firm do. We’d have lots of similar sized teams that would be relatively close to each other. The money for winning the league and a European place wouldn’t be enough to allow the league winners to pull miles ahead of the other teams.

[JeMeSouviens]

Hibs, hearts or Aberdeen would never be able to dominate in the same way that the old firm do. We’d have lots of similar sized teams that would be relatively close to each other. The money for winning the league and a European place wouldn’t be enough to allow the league winners to pull miles ahead of the other teams.

It would if success attracts new fans and new money. Which tends to happen. In this case, I suppose we might be so overshadowed by OF-in-England that there would be no money.

[Monts]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54545053

Rejected by all 20 premier league clubs....even the ones that proposed it :confused:

[Keith_M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54545053

Rejected by all 20 premier league clubs....even the ones that proposed it :confused:


It looks like they were embarrassed by the reaction to the proposals and changed their minds.

[basehibby]

Story being run on BBC that the "big" six are trying to reform English football.

The likes of Newcastle and Villa would be big losers with the club's involved getting bigger and bigger.

Is this the first push towards a European League with the FA's consent?


It's the endlessly greedy corporate bean-counters at the head of these clubs that are the driving force behind this.

They should be told firmly to get back in their box - they don't care about football at all - only their share prices.

[basehibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54545053

Rejected by all 20 premier league clubs....even the ones that proposed it :confused:

Glad to hear it

[PatHead]

It looks like they were embarrassed by the reaction to the proposals and changed their minds.

Doubt that these clubs are capable of being embarrassed. They knew this wasn't getting through so they will be away setting up plan B.

[Scouse Hibee]

Doubt that these clubs are capable of being embarrassed. They knew this wasn't getting through so they will be away setting up plan B.

It was definitely calculated to kick start some form of reform.

[PatHead]

It was definitely calculated to kick start some form of reform.

As a Liverpool fan, how do you feel about it?

[Scouse Hibee]

As a Liverpool fan, how do you feel about it?

To be honest, I haven’t read anything about it in great detail. I stopped concerning myself with the business model/financial strategy of Liverpool and any other EPL club a long time ago. The whole game has become a business, regardless of what the clubs may say no one really cares for the fans, only their own finances. The Liverpool attempt at using furlough before public opinion forced them to change was a typical example of how folk matter to them. My best years living in Liverpool were the glory years of Liverpool FC, yes it was good to see them finally lift the league again especially for the banter on here, the wealth generated from that just means the owners want even more and will do their utmost to push the so called elite clubs even further ahead. Me, well I’ve now lived here for 28 years, I moved from Liverpool when I was 25 so the finances and morals of Hibs concern me more if I’m honest.

[superfurryhibby]

To be honest, I haven’t read anything about it in great detail. I stopped concerning myself with the business model/financial strategy of Liverpool and any other EPL club a long time ago. The whole game has become a business, regardless of what the clubs may say no one really cares for the fans, only their own finances. The Liverpool attempt at using furlough before public opinion forced them to change was a typical example of how folk matter to them. My best years living in Liverpool were the glory years of Liverpool FC, yes it was good to see them finally lift the league again especially for the banter on here, the wealth generated from that just means the owners want even more and will do their utmost to push the so called elite clubs even further ahead. Me, well I’ve now lived here for 28 years, I moved from Liverpool when I was 25 so the finances and morals of Hibs concern me more if I’m honest.

Great post.

[PatHead]

To be honest, I haven’t read anything about it in great detail. I stopped concerning myself with the business model/financial strategy of Liverpool and any other EPL club a long time ago. The whole game has become a business, regardless of what the clubs may say no one really cares for the fans, only their own finances. The Liverpool attempt at using furlough before public opinion forced them to change was a typical example of how folk matter to them. My best years living in Liverpool were the glory years of Liverpool FC, yes it was good to see them finally lift the league again especially for the banter on here, the wealth generated from that just means the owners want even more and will do their utmost to push the so called elite clubs even further ahead. Me, well I’ve now lived here for 28 years, I moved from Liverpool when I was 25 so the finances and morals of Hibs concern me more if I’m honest.

Thanks for replying. I couldn't imagine Liverpudlians being in favour.

Capitalism and Sky have a hell of a lot to answer for.

[Lendo]

Thanks for replying. I couldn't imagine Liverpudlians being in favour.

Capitalism and Sky have a hell of a lot to answer for.

The thing is how do fans protest and show their opposition to what the club is proposing? They can’t meet in groups outside the ground to hold a rally or vote with their feet and stage a walk out.

[Baader]

To be honest, I haven’t read anything about it in great detail. I stopped concerning myself with the business model/financial strategy of Liverpool and any other EPL club a long time ago. The whole game has become a business, regardless of what the clubs may say no one really cares for the fans, only their own finances. The Liverpool attempt at using furlough before public opinion forced them to change was a typical example of how folk matter to them. My best years living in Liverpool were the glory years of Liverpool FC, yes it was good to see them finally lift the league again especially for the banter on here, the wealth generated from that just means the owners want even more and will do their utmost to push the so called elite clubs even further ahead. Me, well I’ve now lived here for 28 years, I moved from Liverpool when I was 25 so the finances and morals of Hibs concern me more if I’m honest.

Good read. Have family ties with Liverpool too although they are all on the Blue side but love the city and the people.

Reading about how Liverpool FC have treated residents of Anfield over a period of over 20 years, you realise how little some clubs actually care for the local community. They're no special case I know but it's shameful stuff and disappointing to read when football provides so much to so many there.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn