Trump's tax return published by NY Times

[Hibbyradge]

I have to eat my words. I was sure he'd have paid nothing.

I was wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/27/new-york-times-publishes-donald-trumps-tax-returns-election?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[Mr Grieves]

Trump 2012

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/190866856624668672?s=20

[lapsedhibee]

Expenses include "$70,000 in hairstyling for television". :faf:

[stokesmessiah]

If that’s true that he’s only paid $750 in tax it is absolutely horrific. Some of the comments on Twitter from his ‘followers’ though are just laughable - the general consensus is that it shows he is a good businessman who is clever with his money!! WTF.

[bigwheel]

Trumps supporters largely don’t care about this stuff...they like his position on guns, immigration, the facade of law and order, his racist opinions and his anti democrat actions ...

They wouldn’t care if he was a mass murderer....it’s quite remarkable really - if it was a movie, no one would believe it

The ending to this could be something quite remarkable. Jail? Civil war ? Anything could happen ....

[Ozyhibby]

I doubt this harms him with his base but it keeps the floating voters away. Need more of these stories over next 35 days.


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[Bostonhibby]

Expenses include "$70,000 in hairstyling for television". :faf:70k for a blender and an afternoon in a wind tunnel? He was robbed.

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[neil7908]

I'm not sure this will make any difference, even to undecided voters.

Everyone knows Trump's at it but his voters choose to focus on other issues and it will will be the same with undecided I suspect.

The worrying thing for Biden is that Trump is still more trusted on the economy. Even though we are in unprecedented times, the economy is usually the key area for voters.

[Jones28]

Remember when Trump said he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and not lose a single vote? He knows his following.

[lapsedhibee]

Remember when Trump said he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and not lose a single vote? He knows his following.
Yes but he also knows his tax returns will lose him some votes - otherwise he wouldn't have struggled so hard to prevent them being made public. He can't win with his nutterbase alone.

[Ozyhibby]

Yes but he also knows his tax returns will lose him some votes - otherwise he wouldn't have struggled so hard to prevent them being made public. He can't win with his nutterbase alone.

It’s not just voters he might lose. There are banks who have security on buildings that he has told them are worth x amount and if he is telling the IRS they are worth less then he could be in both financial and legal trouble.


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[lapsedhibee]

It’s not just voters he might lose. There are banks who have security on buildings that he has told them are worth x amount and if he is telling the IRS they are worth less then he could be in both financial and legal trouble.

Excellent!

[Killiehibbie]

Taxes are something that little guys pay not big, huge zillionaires like Trump.

[Bristolhibby]

It’s not just voters he might lose. There are banks who have security on buildings that he has told them are worth x amount and if he is telling the IRS they are worth less then he could be in both financial and legal trouble.


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He’s already gone on the attack against his own Inland Revenue Service.

Saying the IRS don’t like him, and it’s all political.

J

[Keith_M]

Didn't his spokesperson previously state (in 2016?) that 'it's every American's patriotic duty to pay as little taxes as possible'?

...or words to that effect?

:dunno:

[Hibernia&Alba]

2017 federal incomes tax:

Biden 3.7 million USD
Trump 750 USD


:cb

[Hibs Class]

He's complaining that it's both fake news and illegally obtained information... surely cannot be both!

[Ozyhibby]

He's complaining that it's both fake news and illegally obtained information... surely cannot be both!

Doesn’t matter to his supporters so long as he keeps up the racism.


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[Fuzzywuzzy]

Channel 4 news say they have obtained a database used for voter suppression in 2016

[Northernhibee]

Channel 4 news say they have obtained a database used for voter suppression in 2016

You could bet pounds to peanuts that if it was involved in the States, it was likely involved in Brexit as well. Too many shared figures in the two events for it not to be.

[Hibernia&Alba]

David Cay Johnston is the man to listen to on this issue. He's been investigating Trump since the 1980s. This is from May this year:


https://youtu.be/U51Bouub-1o

[Future17]

Pelosi stating his debt is a national security issue.

[Pretty Boy]

The **** ordered actual human children be kept in cages, I can't see his dodgy bookkeeping making a dent among his core support.

Hopefully it turns a few more floating voters away though.

[CropleyWasGod]

There are a few credible scenarios in which DT and his companies could have legitimately paid little tax. If the Returns had been released sooner, this conversation might have been different.

The loans, however, (particularly who holds the security) could be a much bigger issue.

[Killiehibbie]

There are a few credible scenarios in which DT and his companies could have legitimately paid little tax. If the Returns had been released sooner, this conversation might have been different.

The loans, however, (particularly who holds the security) could be a much bigger issue.

He wouldn't turn a blind eye to the Global Laundromat in return for loans would he?

[Future17]

There are a few credible scenarios in which DT and his companies could have legitimately paid little tax. If the Returns had been released sooner, this conversation might have been different.

The loans, however, (particularly who holds the security) could be a much bigger issue.

I don't actually think he's being criticised for the tax avoidable itself; it's more the hypocrisy that seems to be getting attention.

[bigwheel]

I don't actually think he's being criticised for the tax avoidable itself; it's more the hypocrisy that seems to be getting attention.

Think he is being rightly criticised...this is much more than hypocrisy

To pay such little tax he is either a) corrupt or b) a terrible business man ....maybe both ...there are no real other reasons for the tax bills to be so constantly small over such a significant period..

They fact that his income is filled with selling his equity and a whole set of loans is also showing deep underlying weakness in his own personal balance sheet ..

It’s a devastating picture for him ...

[Hibernia&Alba]

Think he is being rightly criticised...this is much more than hypocrisy

To pay such little tax he is either a) corrupt or b) a terrible business man ....maybe both ...there are no real other reasons for the tax bills to be so constantly small over such a significant period..

They fact that his income is filled with selling his equity and a whole set of loans is also showing deep underlying weakness in his own personal balance sheet ..

It’s a devastating picture for him ...

Indeed. If he's simply a terrible businessman who has lost hundreds of millions over many years, so legitimately avoided taxes, that's bad enough. What would be worse for him is evidence of criminality. One of the most serious accusations is that he's been inflating his income and assets to banks when getting loans, but deflating their value to the IRS when taxes were due. That is clearly fraud. Then there's the 72 million federal income tax rebate (plus 18 million local income tax) he claimed, which the IRS are challenging. Also, if he's shown to have frivolously written off expenses as tax deductible, again it's fraud.

He has personal loans of around 420 million dollars, but says he can't pay taxes because of enormous losses. So how will he pay those loans, which are due within three to four years?

[Mibbes Aye]

Think he is being rightly criticised...this is much more than hypocrisy

To pay such little tax he is either a) corrupt or b) a terrible business man ....maybe both ...there are no real other reasons for the tax bills to be so constantly small over such a significant period..

They fact that his income is filled with selling his equity and a whole set of loans is also showing deep underlying weakness in his own personal balance sheet ..

It’s a devastating picture for him ...


Indeed. If he's simply a terrible businessman who has lost hundreds of millions over many years, so legitimately avoided taxes, that's bad enough. What would be worse for him is evidence of criminality. One of the most serious accusations is that he's been inflating his income and assets to banks when getting loans, but deflating their value to the IRS when taxes were due. That is clearly fraud. Then there's the 72 million federal income tax rebate (plus 18 million local income tax) he claimed, which the IRS are challenging. Also, if he's shown to have frivolously written off expenses as tax deductible, again it's fraud.

He has personal loans of around 420 million dollars, but says he can't pay taxes because of enormous losses. So how will he pay those loans, which are due within three to four years?

Whoa there fellas.

You are going to look damn silly if it turns out he only owes the money to himself.

My concern is that he may have won ballroom dancing awards, skippered a submarine or had Mauricio Pinilla as a long-term house guest. In which case it is us who look stupid.

[Hibrandenburg]

Whoa there fellas.

You are going to look damn silly if it turns out he only owes the money to himself.

My concern is that he may have won ballroom dancing awards, skippered a submarine or had Mauricio Pinilla as a long-term house guest. In which case it is us who look stupid.

Whoa there stud, not even a football club would be stupid enough to fall for that kind of malarkey.

[Kato]

There are a few credible scenarios in which DT and his companies could have legitimately paid little tax. If the Returns had been released sooner, this conversation might have been different.

The loans, however, (particularly who holds the security) could be a much bigger issue.It may be currently within the law to avoid tax the way he has but shouldn't be legitimate to do so, neither should we be so credible about it.

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[Hibernia&Alba]

It may be currently within the law to avoid tax the way he has but shouldn't be legitimate to do so, neither should we be so credible about it.

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In America in particular, the tax code favours the very rich. In fact the lobbyists and lawyers of very rich donors are the real authors of the tax bills, ensuring that clauses which benefit their paymasters are included. And of course the same very rich paymasters also donate to the politicians. It's a bought and paid for system that is rigged.

[Kato]

It's a bought and paid for system that is rigged.

Ditto the UK from the very first days of Thatcher's tenure.

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[Bostonhibby]

Ditto the UK from the very first days of Thatcher's tenure.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using TapatalkIndeed, it's not even indigenous UK nationals that are buying and paying for it any more, just ask all the Russian nationals who've magically got UK citizenship and residency how it works.

Pesky foreigners, luckily Brexit has sorted all that out.

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[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/adamdavidson/status/1310929478030426112?s=19

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[lapsedhibee]

https://twitter.com/adamdavidson/status/1310929478030426112?s=19


:lurksub:

[CropleyWasGod]

:lurksub:

Same auditors as well 😎

[Hibernia&Alba]

So what exactly has he been up to all these years with his finances? it could well be that he didn't expect to win the presidency and the scrutiny that goes with it.


https://youtu.be/UtY54RI3DYY

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://youtu.be/zZhUnuUxzPo

[CropleyWasGod]

So what exactly has he been up to all these years with his finances? it could well be that he didn't expect to win the presidency and the scrutiny that goes with it.


https://youtu.be/UtY54RI3DYY

You have to strip out the ignorance the guy has of the system here (eg. "investigated by the SG"), and look beyond his obvious bias.

When you do that, it's very similar to the opinion linked earlier on Twitter. That there is money-laundering going on.

As I said earlier, the tax thing is a red herring IMO. It's much deeper than that and, sure, it could be politically motivated.

Presumably (and we can't and won't know this), the auditors have done their AML procedures on any cash flowing into his Scottish company..... just as they did with Vlad's millions. :greengrin

If they haven't, there will be a few sleepless nights in Aberdeen just now.

[Hibernia&Alba]

You have to strip out the ignorance the guy has of the system here (eg. "investigated by the SG"), and look beyond his obvious bias.

When you do that, it's very similar to the opinion linked earlier on Twitter. That there is money-laundering going on.

As I said earlier, the tax thing is a red herring IMO. It's much deeper than that and, sure, it could be politically motivated.

Presumably (and we can't and won't know this), the auditors have done their AML procedures on any cash flowing into his Scottish company..... just as they did with Vlad's millions. :greengrin

If they haven't, there will be a few sleepless nights in Aberdeen just now.

This is your area, CWG. Keep your eye on this story for us. The whole thing stinks. I strongly suspect his presidential run was just a publicity gimmick for his brand; he had no expectations of winning. When he won, he realised his finances would be closely investigated. As you say, this could go much further than tax evasion, which is terrible in of itself. Of course his supporters will say it's all a conspiracy, but this guy has been doing God knows what for forty years.

[Kato]

That there is money-laundering going on.


I worked with guys from NYC and they were in no doubt that that was DT's main pursuit, those rumours go back 20 years.

[CropleyWasGod]

I worked with guys from NYC and they were in no doubt that that was DT's main pursuit, those rumours go back 20 years.

Any idea what the whistle-blowing requirements are in the US? Are they similar to here?

It would be nice if it a wee accounting firm in the land of his mammy was responsible for his demise..... :greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

I worked with guys from NYC and they were in no doubt that that was DT's main pursuit, those rumours go back 20 years.

It shows what an idiotic egotist he is, that he would draw the attention to himself that goes with a presidential run! He saw that run as a means of making a fortune in exposure, never expecting to win.

Also, he had the nerve to constantly refer to Hillary Clinton as 'crooked Hillary' in the 2016 campaign. His lack of self-awareness is astonishing.

[jacomo]

This is your area, CWG. Keep your eye on this story for us. The whole thing stinks. I strongly suspect his presidential run was just a publicity gimmick for his brand; he had no expectations of winning. When he won, he realised his finances would be closely investigated. As you say, this could go much further than tax evasion, which is terrible in of itself. Of course his supporters will say it's all a conspiracy, but this guy has been doing God knows what for forty years.


The man is a crook. Would be brilliant if his Trump properties in Scotland are taken off him.

[Kato]

Any idea what the whistle-blowing requirements are in the US? Are they similar to here?

The guys I know are music biz bods - those rumours are common currency in Manhatten as is associating his name with the Mob.


It would be nice if it a wee accounting firm in the land of his mammy was responsible for his demise..... :greengrin

I reckon they will get him on fraud charges.

[Keith_M]

https://twitter.com/adamdavidson/status/1310929478030426112?s=19

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Wow, this is creepily similar to the behaviour that brought the Wirecard Scandal (https://www.ft.com/content/81779b15-7b1d-404f-b523-d61510397dd4). For those of you located in Germany, I expect you're familiar with this as it's in the news nearly every day.


What happened was the purchase of a number of quite small, far eastern banks at vastly inflated values. Most of the money used to purchase those companies then went through very indirect routes back to Wirecard, The assets (the acquired companies) were then valued in the company's books at the (alleged) purchase price, not the actual value.

This led to an (incredibly high) artificialy inflated valuation of Wirecard shares. What had been a quite small company only two years earlier suddenly broke into the DAX 50 in 2018, valued at Billions and replacing a genuinely large financial company, Commerzbank.

One of the people in charge of Wirecard had links to Russia, in fact to some spies working for Russian Intelligence. When the scandal broke, he disappeared. He's apparently now in Moscow.

Very high officials in the German government, and the financial auditors, are now being asked some extremely awkward questions and there are ongoing investigations into potential Russian money laundering.




Any of this sound familiar?

:hmmm:

[Hibernia&Alba]

This is worth watching. A half hour programme from the Legal Eagle You Tube channel:


https://youtu.be/28yrkIzVXys