Football Armageddon

[Billy Whizz]

Is this just the 1st of many clubs finding it difficult



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54177582

[bigwheel]

Could well be. A real shame ..formed a year before us !

[ballengeich]

I expect there will be others, but Macclesfield were in difficulty before Covid and had been given points deductions which led to relegation for financial offenses. It's the old story of the wrong owner. They even had to postpone a match last season because their ground safety certificate had expired.

[Brummie_Hibs]

Ah, Macclesfield - The Great Adventure.

[Not In The Know]

Its obviously a shame when people lose their jobs, especially the non playing staff, but ive no sympathy for a lot of them.

For years English teams have been living beyond their means and outbidding us for players. Not to mention tempting our players away on crazy salaries we cant match, all while pundits, fans and players down there call us a pub league.

[Lago]

Is this just the 1st of many clubs finding it difficult



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54177582
Bury first now this and Southend apparently on the brink, could be a lower league blood bath, Scottish clubs won't be immune.

[Yorkshire HFC]

Its obviously a shame when people lose their jobs, especially the non playing staff, but ive no sympathy for a lot of them.

For years English teams have been living beyond their means and outbidding us for players. Not to mention tempting our players away on crazy salaries we cant match, all while pundits, fans and players down there call us a pub league.

This is why I can't understand Hibs signing the players they are at the moment - all with no matchday income in the forseeable future.

[Iggy Pope]

Is this just the 1st of many clubs finding it difficult



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54177582

They were in bother a long time before the epidemic.

[Keith_M]

Bury first now this and Southend apparently on the brink, could be a lower league blood bath, Scottish clubs won't be immune.


All those clubs were already in a mess, though.

I'm not convinced it's a sign of things to come for other clubs.



THIS (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49755240) article is on Southend's financial problems and is from September last year.

"Southend United have been issued with yet another winding-up petition by HM Revenue and Customs, reports BBC Essex.

The Shrimpers have been dealt a series of winding-up petitions - including one earlier this year - over the course of a decade."

[Sammy7nil]

This is why I can't understand Hibs signing the players they are at the moment - all with no matchday income in the forseeable future.

Fans have rallied and this year most clubs will be fine. Will fans pay £400 again next year if no fans are allowed in stadiums? That is when real problems may arise.

[Hibernian Verse]

Fans have rallied and this year most clubs will be fine. Will fans pay £400 again next year if no fans are allowed in stadiums? That is when real problems may arise.

I think you'll see as many Hibs fans as this year renewing. Maybe slightly less but I think the majority of us have rallied to support Hibs not really expecting to see many games this season.

Hopefully it doesn't come to pass anyway.

[Since452]

I was reading an article before the pandemic about lower league English clubs being close to financial disaster because of the Premier League inflating wages. God knows what it's like now.

[EdinMike]

Not that I condone it, but I’m sure many a people have said for years (decades ?) that they can’t wait for the English bubble to burst. Sadly it might be the good rural teams that might be affected by the current pinch.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Is this just the 1st of many clubs finding it difficult



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54177582

Surely Bury were first?

And yet at the top end we still have clubs burning through squillions of £s. Apparently Man Uniteds net spent of players in the last 7 years is something like £1B! I personally find this disgusting and its such a shame that its always the small local clubs that seem to suffer the most.

[Sudds_1]

I think you'll see as many Hibs fans as this year renewing. Maybe slightly less but I think the majority of us have rallied to support Hibs not really expecting to see many games this season.

Hopefully it doesn't come to pass anyway.

I certainly will. Apart from match attendance, our season tickets are bought with a 2fold purpose....to give an early financial boost ....and show commitment and loyalty to the club we love. I cant see any of that changing for us.

[Sudds_1]

Not that I condone it, but I’m sure many a people have said for years (decades ?) that they can’t wait for the English bubble to burst. Sadly it might be the good rural teams that might be affected by the current pinch.

yep to a degree i agree. But its not confined to england. Spanish, italian and german clubs at the top of their pyramids are just as bad. Eufa's chasing money through changes to european competition has created elite sectors in all these leagues....the rich get richer....the rest live off scraps. I doubt you will EVER again see a porto type result in a european final. The big boys will keep competing against each other...wages and fees will continue to rise...sponsors and tv will keep feeding the beast.....

...and the working mans game will be a fond memory.😔😔

[Sas_The_Hibby]

Could well be. A real shame ..formed a year before us !

Stop it! I hadn't clicked the link before I saw this and thought it was dire news about our 1874 neighbours! :greengrin

Seriously sorry about a club (other than the obvious) being wound up though.

[MWHIBBIES]

yep to a degree i agree. But its not confined to england. Spanish, italian and german clubs at the top of their pyramids are just as bad. Eufa's chasing money through changes to european competition has created elite sectors in all these leagues....the rich get richer....the rest live off scraps. I doubt you will EVER again see a porto type result in a european final. The big boys will keep competing against each other...wages and fees will continue to rise...sponsors and tv will keep feeding the beast.....

...and the working mans game will be a fond memory.😔😔

Ajax and Lyon been CL semi finalist recently, it really isn't that bad. Ajax really should've made the final but buggered it up.


The big teams and leagues made smart business decisions to take themselves forward. Others stood still. Its pretty difficult to blame businesses for taking the course that makes them the most money IMO.

[Since452]

Who next? Not read the whole thread so might have already been said but sure they've introduced a salary cap in the lower leagues. Might help a bit but the damage already been done

[ekhibee]

It's very sad, a club with a proud history, and there will definitely be more that go the wall within the next year too. But never mind, Spurs have got Bale back and he's getting 600k wages A WEEK. Regardless of what anybody thinks of his ability, that figure is obscene.

[MWHIBBIES]

It's very sad, a club with a proud history, and there will definitely be more that go the wall within the next year too. But never mind, Spurs have got Bale back and he's getting 600k wages A WEEK. Regardless of what anybody thinks of his ability, that figure is obscene.

It's not obscene if he earns them more in return. Messi is on 1.2m a week, but he is easily worth that to Barcelona and has made them hundreds of millions over the years.

[NAE NOOKIE]

You have to feel sorry for the folk who have supported them for years, its a hard shift following smaller clubs at any time for little reward, even worse when it all ends with your club going out of existence.

This is the problem clubs face just now, hardly any of the smaller clubs were in the black and the ones only just keeping the Wolves from the door are reliant on ticket money, If this situation goes on much longer we will see a lot more of this ... how can we not? .... no fans + lots of debt = no club.

As for Hibs. We have an amazing 11,000 ST holders, plus HSL, keeping us going this season. If the situation is the same next season and my financial situation hasn't changed I will renew mine again, but IMO there's no chance we will get 11,000 for next season if folk still cant go to games, especially with the inevitable job losses Covid allied to Brexit will cause next year. If we got to 8,000 in those circumstances it would still be an incredible show of loyalty and affection for the club and be enough to keep it going ....just.

But IMO football only has until the middle of the 21/22 season until clubs start falling like dominoes, just how many clubs can hope to survive after that point without the full return of supporters? It's not just that, the vast majority of folk who own middle sized to small clubs aren't billionaires, there's no way most of them will be able or willing to pour endless amounts of their own cash into a lost cause ... they will cut their losses and walk away and who could blame them ... that unfortunately could include our owner as well.

In 3 to 5 years time professional football could look very different from what it is at the moment. I've said it before: Will clubs like Celtic, The Rangers, Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen if the all survive as full time clubs really want to be playing in a league where they are practically the only full time teams left and the rest are part time, attracting far less fans even than they do now and where TV has practically lost all interest? Or will they look to England, who by that time may have lost dozens of full time clubs, and be looking for better than just makeweights from the lower reaches of their leagues to beef up their product?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Like dominoes...?

I’ve Long felt that given the indebtedness of clubs, reliant on the moneyof the pied piper (Sky) and now others, that such reliance - should clubs start going out of business -would hasten the point where the TV companies start to influence a move towards leagues and formats that suit the TV companies and result in the loosening of association rules around clubs needing to be from the same country. COVID has perhaps brought things closer to the denuoment.

#SentencesAsParagraphs
#BrakDaRulz

[murray26]

Have they tried the maroon pound..?

[Scorrie]

I mind going to watch Hibs there in a preseason friendly when Eck was manager. A grim 0-0 from what I can recall

[Forza Fred]

I fear there will be other ‘smaller’ clubs that fall by the wayside.

Not entirely due to Covid, but COVID will be the straw that breaks the proverbial camel’s back of these already financially struggling clubs.

Many were just hanging in there before COVID, but the virus has/will accelerate things.

[Northernhibee]

Have they tried the maroon pound..?

A bake sale, surely?

[Caversham Green]

It's not obscene if he earns them more in return. Messi is on 1.2m a week, but he is easily worth that to Barcelona and has made them hundreds of millions over the years.

It's about context.

£600k would pay for around 20 NHS nurses for a year and Gareth Bale will have 'earned' it by this time next week. For playing football. Given the hardship many people in this country and around the world are suffering at the moment I don't think 'obscene' is too harsh a term.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Like dominoes...?

I’ve Long felt that given the indebtedness of clubs, reliant on the moneyof the pied piper (Sky) and now others, that such reliance - should clubs start going out of business -would hasten the point where the TV companies start to influence a move towards leagues and formats that suit the TV companies and result in the loosening of association rules around clubs needing to be from the same country. COVID has perhaps brought things closer to the denuoment.

#SentencesAsParagraphs
#BrakDaRulz

Before Covid the Dutch and Belgians were already looking into a possible merger. TV already influences the format of football, the Champions league is a direct result of intervention by European TV companies who were fed up paying big money up front only to see some big 'TV worthy' clubs knocked out of the European cup early doors.

That's why I think it isn't outwith the bounds of possibility that TV companies may well get behind the idea of a British league if the worst case scenario were to pan out on both sides of the border. If you were SKY, BT or even the BBC who would you want replacing the clubs who have folded?

The top 5 clubs in the English 5th tier in alphabetical order are:

Aldershot Town
Barnet
Barrow
Boreham Wood
Bromley

The best supported club last season in that league were Notts County with an average of just over 5000. Better than some clubs in the Scottish premiership, but nowhere near Scotland's top 5 clubs.

The top supported clubs in Scotland are:

Celtic
The Rangers
Hibs
Hearts
Aberdeen

If you think purely of TV audience, potential for growth and stadium facilities which 5 would you want to see in the leagues you want to cover?

[Kato]

If you think purely of TV audience, potential for growth and stadium facilities which 5 would you want to see in the leagues you want to cover?



Celtic, The Rangers, Hibs, Aberdeen and Boreham Wood.

[Since452]

Before Covid the Dutch and Belgians were already looking into a possible merger. TV already influences the format of football, the Champions league is a direct result of intervention by European TV companies who were fed up paying big money up front only to see some big 'TV worthy' clubs knocked out of the European cup early doors.

That's why I think it isn't outwith the bounds of possibility that TV companies may well get behind the idea of a British league if the worst case scenario were to pan out on both sides of the border. If you were SKY, BT or even the BBC who would you want replacing the clubs who have folded?

The top 5 clubs in the English 5th tier in alphabetical order are:

Aldershot Town
Barnet
Barrow
Boreham Wood
Bromley

The top supported clubs in Scotland are:

Celtic
The Rangers
Hibs
Hearts
Aberdeen

If you think purely of TV audience, potential for growth and stadium facilities which 5 would you want to see in the leagues you want to cover?

England have their own product. They don't need half a dozen Scottish clubs to make it more appealing. Folk already (even up here) cream themselves over Huddersfield v Brighton. Can almost see the logic in Holland and Belgium doing it.

[Phil MaGlass]

Ajax and Lyon been CL semi finalist recently, it really isn't that bad. Ajax really should've made the final but buggered it up.


The big teams and leagues made smart business decisions to take themselves forward. Others stood still. Its pretty difficult to blame businesses for taking the course that makes them the most money IMO.

Not to nitpick, Ajax have recently made more than 450 million in the last 18 months from Champs league and sale of players.

[Billy Whizz]

Lots of football clubs for years, have lived above their means
There’s got to be some correction on this, as banks etc won’t continue to give them credit, so they’ll have to cut costs to survive

[MWHIBBIES]

It's about context.

£600k would pay for around 20 NHS nurses for a year and Gareth Bale will have 'earned' it by this time next week. For playing football. Given the hardship many people in this country and around the world are suffering at the moment I don't think 'obscene' is too harsh a term.

The 2 things aren't related. Its not like Real Madrid are taking money out of the NHS and giving it to Bale.

If you get paid 30 odd million a year by a business, but you make them 100 million a year, its quite reasonable really.

The tax contributions of football clubs and players will do plenty for the NHS.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Celtic, The Rangers, Hibs, Aberdeen and Boreham Wood.

:greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

England have their own product. They don't need half a dozen Scottish clubs to make it more appealing. Folk already (even up here) cream themselves over Huddersfield v Brighton. Can almost see the logic in Holland and Belgium doing it.

In normal circumstances I would agree, but we wouldn't be talking about normal circumstances.

The perspective I am coming from is a scenario where Scotland has lost a number of clubs and others have gone part time. In our league that could easily extend to half the premier league. Even now it's a head scratcher how clubs like Hamilton, St Johnstone and Livingston can run full time professional football. It could be a case of Scotland's 5 or 6 biggest clubs approaching the Football League and putting a proposal to them that they be incorporated into the English system, with the backing of the likes of SKY.

There would be room for them if enough clubs have folded and don't tell me that in a game were money counts more than anything else the prospect of two of Europe's best supported clubs and the TV interest they generate wouldn't be tempting, along with the addition of the worlds oldest derby match contested by two well supported clubs from one of the UK's fastest growing cities and a club who have won a European trophy and have the potential to grow bigger than they are.

[Torto7]

The 2 things aren't related. Its not like Real Madrid are taking money out of the NHS and giving it to Bale.

If you get paid 30 odd million a year by a business, but you make them 100 million a year, its quite reasonable really.

The tax contributions of football clubs and players will do plenty for the NHS.

They are related. We have a system just now that rewards the few and penalises the many. Football is just following suit. The money isn't created from thin air. It comes from people's pockets. We're in a similar situation on the high street, Amazon vs the local store. If money travels in one direction it's unhealthy.

Tax contributions yeah good one. That's the typical apologists answer. Most of them will have access to tax avoidance experts. I wonder how much cash is stored overseas. Personally it gives me the dry boak watching these primadonnas getting what they do and the fawning drooling groupies on the internet trying to justify it at the same time our key workers are paid a pittance to keep the country running.

Football at the top end gives poor people the same titillation as crap like the kardashians. The groupies get more excited for the transfer window than they do for the regular season.

[Caversham Green]

The 2 things aren't related. Its not like Real Madrid are taking money out of the NHS and giving it to Bale.

If you get paid 30 odd million a year by a business, but you make them 100 million a year, its quite reasonable really.

The tax contributions of football clubs and players will do plenty for the NHS.

I disagree. One man being paid more in a week for playing football than 20 nurses are paid in a year is obscene. You're describing the ugly side of capitalism.

[MWHIBBIES]

They are related. We have a system just now that rewards the few and penalises the many. Football is just following suit. The money isn't created from thin air. It comes from people's pockets. We're in a similar situation on the high street, Amazon vs the local store. If money travels in one direction it's unhealthy.

Tax contributions yeah good one. That's the typical apologists answer. Most of them will have access to tax avoidance experts. I wonder how much cash is stored overseas. Personally it gives me the dry boak watching these primadonnas getting what they do and the fawning drooling groupies on the internet trying to justify it at the same time our key workers are paid a pittance to keep the country running.

Football at the top end gives poor people the same titillation as crap like the kardashians. The groupies get more excited for the transfer window than they do for the regular season.

Think you need to calm yourself down a bit mate.

The money isn't created from thin air, no. It is given to them by punters, in one way or another, who chose to spend their hard earned cash on tickets, shirts, tv subscriptions etc. As is their right.

I'm not an apologist. I am just not daft enough to think Gareth Bale is taking money from a nurses pocket. You can get the dry boak all you want, someone who generates a business hundreds of millions is always going to be paid tens of millions. Film star, Sportsman, CEO etc.

Again, footballers avoiding tax is hardly something that stops and starts with them. The loopholes should be shut or it will happen.

Amazon vs the local store is just not comparable. Amazon are a big business with everything you could need, that can be delivered the next day. It is always going to be preferred over going out, searching about various shops, paying silly money for parking, maybe not even finding what you want etc. Blockbuster died because Netflix moved with the times. Amazon is moving with the times, the highstreet cant.

Footballers have done more than most during this pandemic, with many making big charitable donations, helping out in their communities, fighting the government on issues etc. They should be applauded.

[MWHIBBIES]

I disagree. One man being paid more in a week for playing football than 20 nurses are paid in a year is obscene. You're describing the ugly side of capitalism.

You keep going back to him just playing football. As if anyone can do that at a world class level. They cant, his ability generates his employer a lot of money, hence why he is handsomly rewarded. Same for other jobs of that type, like film stars etc.

Its not nice, I'm not saying it is. But its the truth. We all have the chance to do something about the wages of NHS workers when we get the chance to vote. Its not Gareth Bales fault we chose people who prioritise different things.

I think people love to pick and chose who they get at for this. Never heard a bad word about Andy Murray, someone with career winnings (so not including any sponsors, image rights, merch etc) of over 60 million. It is happening at the top levels of all sports. ****ing youtubers make six figures, same with twitch streamers etc.

[Caversham Green]

You keep going back to him just playing football. As if anyone can do that at a world class level. They cant, his ability generates his employer a lot of money, hence why he is handsomly rewarded. Same for other jobs of that type, like film stars etc.

Its not nice, I'm not saying it is. But its the truth. We all have the chance to do something about the wages of NHS workers when we get the chance to vote. Its not Gareth Bales fault we chose people who prioritise different things.

The bit in bold is the whole point I'm making, except I'd go further than saying it's "not nice".

[Hibernia&Alba]

Its obviously a shame when people lose their jobs, especially the non playing staff, but ive no sympathy for a lot of them.

For years English teams have been living beyond their means and outbidding us for players. Not to mention tempting our players away on crazy salaries we cant match, all while pundits, fans and players down there call us a pub league.

The money has all been sucked to the top; many of the smaller clubs in Leagues 1 and 2 are surviving on pennies, with players on a few hundred quid per wek.

[Yorkshire HFC]

I disagree. One man being paid more in a week for playing football than 20 nurses are paid in a year is obscene. You're describing the ugly side of capitalism.

What do you think the wage of a Hibs player should be?

[Caversham Green]

What do you think the wage of a Hibs player should be?

A lot less than £600k per week. Why do you ask?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I disagree. One man being paid more in a week for playing football than 20 nurses are paid in a year is obscene. You're describing the ugly side of capitalism.

Yup just goes to show how de-based we’ve become. In times of austerity and the hardship we are enduring and it will get worse than it gets better it’s mind boggling that folks are not more concerned.

[WhileTheChief..]

I don’t think for one minute any club in Scotland will go out of business in the next few years.

Wishful thinking by Budge and her followers, nothing else.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I disagree. One man being paid more in a week for playing football than 20 nurses are paid in a year is obscene. You're describing the ugly side of capitalism.

Yup just goes to show how de-based we’ve become. In times of austerity and the hardship we are enduring and it will get worse than it gets better it’s mind boggling that folks are not more concerned.

[ben johnson]

I disagree. One man being paid more in a week for playing football than 20 nurses are paid in a year is obscene. You're describing the ugly side of capitalism.

A peek into the wages paid in the City of London might put this wage into perspective
Or a senior member of the Royal Family being lauded for becoming a billionaire What does he need with a billion

[Caversham Green]

A peek into the wages paid in the City of London might put this wage into perspective
Or a senior member of the Royal Family being lauded for becoming a billionaire What does he need with a billion

Yes, the excesses of the City and some of the Royal Family could also be described as obscene. That doesn't make Gareth Bale's wage any less so.

[ekhibee]

You keep going back to him just playing football. As if anyone can do that at a world class level. They cant, his ability generates his employer a lot of money, hence why he is handsomly rewarded. Same for other jobs of that type, like film stars etc.

Its not nice, I'm not saying it is. But its the truth. We all have the chance to do something about the wages of NHS workers when we get the chance to vote. Its not Gareth Bales fault we chose people who prioritise different things.

I think people love to pick and chose who they get at for this. Never heard a bad word about Andy Murray, someone with career winnings (so not including any sponsors, image rights, merch etc) of over 60 million. It is happening at the top levels of all sports. ****ing youtubers make six figures, same with twitch streamers etc.

Rubbish, it's nothing like most other employers. Why couldn't he get a quarter of that, would that not be enough? Even that is far too much. There's thousands of people who have as much if not more skill in the particular job they do, make their employers wealthier, and get paid nothing like what he's getting. And you're trying to justify his wage.

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54698345

Hurting Celtic now too

[jacomo]

Rubbish, it's nothing like most other employers. Why couldn't he get a quarter of that, would that not be enough? Even that is far too much. There's thousands of people who have as much if not more skill in the particular job they do, make their employers wealthier, and get paid nothing like what he's getting. And you're trying to justify his wage.


There’s two things going on here - a system that’s so unequal and so unfair it is preposterous, and a player who wants to be paid on the same level as his peers.

When Bale left Spurs for Madrid, and then when he signed his extension, he could genuinely be described as a world class player. He wanted to be paid like a world class player.

You could make an argument that no footballer could possibly be worth more than £100k a year, and there is merit in that. However, as MW says, people continually vote for inequality.

[ScottB]

There’s two things going on here - a system that’s so unequal and so unfair it is preposterous, and a player who wants to be paid on the same level as his peers.

When Bale left Spurs for Madrid, and then when he signed his extension, he could genuinely be described as a world class player. He wanted to be paid like a world class player.

You could make an argument that no footballer could possibly be worth more than £100k a year, and there is merit in that. However, as MW says, people continually vote for inequality.

He got what Real were willing to offer. Bale, like anyone else, is perfectly justified in asking for whatever he wanted, and his employer obviously agreed that he was, and paid up.

How ridiculous that is compared to any other footballer, or any other industry, is essentially irrelevant really. I would argue, personally, that what is needed is making sure people on such exorbitant wages are properly taxed in line with it, rather than complaining about such wages existing in the first place.

[Keith_M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54698345

Hurting Celtic now too


Bound to affect every club.

Though I'm surprised that their spending on transfer fees actually went up, but that was probably before the Covid situation.

[Jones28]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54698345

Hurting Celtic now too

My heart bleeds, poor celtic :violin:

[KeithTheHibby]

My heart bleeds, poor celtic :violin:

Exactly. Still made a profit despite revenue dropping 13m.

They have pots of cash, been banking it for years whilst their neighbours were rubbish. Won't be many tears shed for that club losing money.

[danhibees1875]

Exactly. Still made a profit despite revenue dropping 13m.

They have pots of cash, been banking it for years whilst their neighbours were rubbish. Won't be many tears shed for that club losing money.

I guess it depends if they were on course for a drop in revenue as it was, but that's quite a drop considering it was only for the period from mid-March to end of June impacted by Covid.

I don't expect anyone to have much sympathy for them but it's indicative of what other clubs will be seeing and Hibs aren't going to be an exception when we get round to announcing results.

[allmodcons]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54698345

Hurting Celtic now too

The concern has to be if it is hurting them what impact will the coronavirus pandemic have on other clubs.

Celtic have a serious amount of cash so could even afford to make a loss during this difficult time.

Many others will not have that luxury. Very concerning for Clubs, especially those who were mismanaging their finances before the pandemic hit.

[Billy Whizz]

Did anyone hear Sportsound pre match today
Chick Young (I know) was at Dunfermline v Morton today, and said Morton have severe financial problems. He then went onto say that Robbie Nielson’s salary, was more than the full Morton team budget

Then had the Inverness Caley CEO on, and you could hear in his voice that they are in real serious financial bother, and are desperate for these grants to be handed out urgently

[tamig]

Did anyone hear Sportsound pre match today
Chick Young (I know) was at Dunfermline v Morton today, and said Morton have severe financial problems. He then went onto say that Robbie Nielson’s salary, was more than the full Morton team budget

Then had the Inverness Caley CEO on, and you could hear in his voice that they are in real serious financial bother, and are desperate for these grants to be handed out urgently
The Neilsom salary thing was soon shot down. They are toiling though. Only one young keeper on the books amongst other things.

[Billy Whizz]

The Neilsom salary thing was soon shot down. They are toiling though. Only one young keeper on the books amongst other things.

It must have come from Morton, trying to say how tight things are for them just now

[Greenbeard]

Just like other businesses it is inevitable that some full-time clubs are going to have to go part-time, or have a squad split half FT and half PT, and some PT clubs might have to go even more PT than they already are.

[Billy Whizz]

Think it’s going to be tough for a few clubs, playing in front of very few fans. I read something the other day about Inverness Caley finding it difficult just now

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/sport/caley-thistle-head-coach-says-football-clubs-are-fighting-to-261290/



Bristol City
I saw this today on Sky Sports, just an unbelievable loss
A club that bases its model on selling over £25m worth of players is unsustainable
£16m turnover and a loss of over £38m, with revenue only down around £4m. Lucky they have a wealthy owner


https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/city-announce-202021-accounts/

[easty]

Think it’s going to be tough for a few clubs, playing in front of very few fans. I read something the other day about Inverness Caley finding it difficult just now

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/sport/caley-thistle-head-coach-says-football-clubs-are-fighting-to-261290/



Bristol City
I saw this today on Sky Sports, just an unbelievable loss
A club that bases its model on selling over £25m worth of players is unsustainable
£16m turnover and a loss of over £38m, with revenue only down around £4m. Lucky they have a wealthy owner


https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/city-announce-202021-accounts/

Teams run like Bristol City deserve to go bust.

[The dalmeny]

Teams run like Bristol City deserve to go bust.

they are rich peoples play things. Don’t agree they deserve to go bust but the finances need rebalanced across the board. It’s the supporters I feel sorry for

[mjhibby]

But not all clubs are playthings. My biggest frustration with covid measures is politicians put the measures in place knowing they won't lose anything but businesses and employees are just to take the pain. I'd be bricking it if I was a chairman/ceo of a well run football club which is on the brink. The govt seems to think every football club has wealthy owners. Clearly that is very far from reality. Inevitable more clubs will go under. Not until its a so called big club will anybody take notice.

[Billy Whizz]

they are rich peoples play things. Don’t agree they deserve to go bust but the finances need rebalanced across the board. It’s the supporters I feel sorry for

They are. Owned by the person from Hargreaves Landsdown investment company
They owe him £96m or so, and they’ve overspent by £170m over last 10 years
Should be points penalties at least

[greenginger]

They are. Owned by the person from Hargreaves Landsdown investment company
They owe him £96m or so, and they’ve overspent by £170m over last 10 years
Should be points penalties at least


Hopefully a a large chunk of that £170 million has gone to help well run clubs who have sold on average players to them for mega bucks transfers and never improved Bristol one iota. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

I wouldn’t worry about any football clubs. They are the most resilient business in the world. The top 100 clubs in the UK are almost unchanged in the last 100 years. That would never happen in any other industry.
I would bet the FTSE 100 is very different now from 100 years ago?


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[Paul1642]

The problem with clubs like Bristol is that to live within their means is to plummet down the divisions. It’s an unfortunate system where every team overspends to compete and it’s the players and agents who win.

Spending cap is what the game needs however will it never happen unless all of Europe’s big countries sign up for it. To be honest it will never happen, period.

[Iggy Pope]

I wouldn’t worry about any football clubs. They are the most resilient business in the world. The top 100 clubs in the UK are almost unchanged in the last 100 years. That would never happen in any other industry.
I would bet the FTSE 100 is very different now from 100 years ago?


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Of course they are. What’s that 100 consist of? 92 in England and 38 up here in 100 years is only 130 clubs. If you said 20 it might be more challenging as it certainly won’t include a few of the top 20 of 100 years ago.

[Ozyhibby]

Of course they are. What’s that 100 consist of? 92 in England and 38 up here in 100 years is only 130 clubs. If you said 20 it might be more challenging as it certainly won’t include a few of the top 20 of 100 years ago.

What I mean is they have all survived. They might move around a bit but they are all still there. That doesn’t happen in any other industry.


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[Haymaker]

They are. Owned by the person from Hargreaves Landsdown investment company
They owe him £96m or so, and they’ve overspent by £170m over last 10 years
Should be points penalties at least

Haven't they rebuilt their stadium in recent years? Or part of it? Could be part of the reason they are in for so much

[ekhibee]

It's not obscene if he earns them more in return. Messi is on 1.2m a week, but he is easily worth that to Barcelona and has made them hundreds of millions over the years.

He wasn't even playing regularly for them for them, and for the record it didn't make the slightest difference. And as you know, Messi has left Barcelona.

[FilipinoHibs]

They are. Owned by the person from Hargreaves Landsdown investment company
They owe him £96m or so, and they’ve overspent by £170m over last 10 years
Should be points penalties at least

Not going to well for that company after being sued by their clients who they advised to invest into a fund about to go bust.

[MWHIBBIES]

He wasn't even playing regularly for them for them, and for the record it didn't make the slightest difference. And as you know, Messi has left Barcelona.

Bale was a mega flop (spurs also weren't paying all of his wages) but generally players at that level are more than worth their wages to their club.



As you know, I posted that over a year ago.

[Saint Hibee]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;6802901]What I mean is they have all survived. They might move around a bit but they are all still there. That doesn’t happen in any other industry.

Glasgow Rangers died, don’t forget.

[Islington Hibs]

I wouldn’t worry about any football clubs. They are the most resilient business in the world. The top 100 clubs in the UK are almost unchanged in the last 100 years. That would never happen in any other industry.
I would bet the FTSE 100 is very different now from 100 years ago?


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The most brilliant comments are often the most obvious with hindsight . That is a genuinely original observation.

[PatHead]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;6802901]What I mean is they have all survived. They might move around a bit but they are all still there. That doesn’t happen in any other industry.

Glasgow Rangers died, don’t forget.

In my lifetime Third Lanark, Clydebank, Airdrie, Gretna and Rangers have all ceased to exist. All of the latter 4 have reformed in one way or another. So it does happen.

In addition Livingston and Clyde have moved to another town

Various clubs Dundee,Hearts, Motherwell,
, Celtic and Hibs have got away with real financial difficulty by the skin of their teeth.

Just thinking of it, where were the Celtic support when they were going under? I remember protests after matches but no fundraising or the likes

[Renfrew_Hibby]

[QUOTE=Saint Hibee;6803070]

In my lifetime Third Lanark, Clydebank, Airdrie, Gretna and Rangers have all ceased to exist. All of the latter 4 have reformed in one way or another. So it does happen.

In addition Livingston and Clyde have moved to another town

Various clubs Dundee,Hearts, Motherwell,
, Celtic and Hibs have got away with real financial difficulty by the skin of their teeth.

Just thinking of it, where were the Celtic support when they were going under? I remember protests after matches but no fundraising or the likes

That was a brilliant observation by the previous poster, football clubs are and will be very resilient.

Yes so clubs have succumbed in recent times but they are generally the result of crazy owners either putting a club way way beyond its means like Gretna or an owner deliberately running a club into the ground like Bury a couple of years back. 95% of clubs will be fine in the long run.

How did clubs survive during the two world wars?

[BH Hibs]

[QUOTE=PatHead;6803084]

That was a brilliant observation by the previous poster, football clubs are and will be very resilient.

Yes so clubs have succumbed in recent times but they are generally the result of crazy owners either putting a club way way beyond its means like Gretna or an owner deliberately running a club into the ground like Bury a couple of years back. 95% of clubs will be fine in the long run.

How did clubs survive during the two world wars?

Hearts won the first one or so they would lead you to believe.

[davhibby]

If the current restrictions up here continue beyond 3 weeks and there’s still no help from the government every full time team outside the Premiership will be in big trouble

[greenginger]

[QUOTE=PatHead;6803084]

That was a brilliant observation by the previous poster, football clubs are and will be very resilient.

Yes so clubs have succumbed in recent times but they are generally the result of crazy owners either putting a club way way beyond its means like Gretna or an owner deliberately running a club into the ground like Bury a couple of years back. 95% of clubs will be fine in the long run.

How did clubs survive during the two world wars?

Have a look at BillyHibs recent post.

Rangers 0-1 Hibs held on 27/12/1941 during the height of the blitz , attendance 25,000

Nae lockdowns for a few German bomber raids.

[Billy Whizz]

[QUOTE=Renfrew_Hibby;6803098]

Have a look at BillyHibs recent post.

Rangers 0-1 Hibs held on 27/12/1941 during the height of the blitz , attendance 25,000

Nae lockdowns for a few German bomber raids.

And also didn’t have a wages to turnover as high as it is now

[hibbyfraelibby]

[QUOTE=Renfrew_Hibby;6803098]

Have a look at BillyHibs recent post.

Rangers 0-1 Hibs held on 27/12/1941 during the height of the blitz , attendance 25,000

Nae lockdowns for a few German bomber raids.

You seriously think the German's were going to bomb their own?😉😉😉

[southern hibby]

But not all clubs are playthings. My biggest frustration with covid measures is politicians put the measures in place knowing they won't lose anything but businesses and employees are just to take the pain. I'd be bricking it if I was a chairman/ceo of a well run football club which is on the brink. The govt seems to think every football club has wealthy owners. Clearly that is very far from reality. Inevitable more clubs will go under. Not until its a so called big club will anybody take notice.

Not to sure about this as Rangers went under and no one outside of Scotland believes they did…..


Sorry my mistake you said big club

GGTTH

[Iggy Pope]

[QUOTE=greenginger;6803132]

You seriously think the German's were going to bomb their own?😉😉😉

The nazis in their support get a lot less fervent at such times.

[ekhibee]

I see Juventus are being investigated again- according to the financial regulator they have been involved in 42 'suspicious transactions.'

[Baader]

Bristol City situation is ridiculous. Why would anyone think you can run a business like that?

[mal]

[QUOTE=PatHead;6803084]

That was a brilliant observation by the previous poster, football clubs are and will be very resilient.

Yes so clubs have succumbed in recent times but they are generally the result of crazy owners either putting a club way way beyond its means like Gretna or an owner deliberately running a club into the ground like Bury a couple of years back. 95% of clubs will be fine in the long run.

How did clubs survive during the two world wars?

The end product of any traditional sporting club (I exclude NFL type franchise systems where teams can relocate at will) is the sense of community, camaraderie, and history that we experience as fans, which is also created by us. Clubs act as a focal point and, effectively, sell ourselves to ourselves, so long as they are not run so badly as to alienate us.

[Billy Whizz]

Don’t think it will cause Armageddon, but to lose £145m is eye watering

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59827141

[ekhibee]

Don’t think it will cause Armageddon, but to lose £145m is eye watering

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59827141

And further more: "...with confirmation in the accounts that the club owes more than £1bn to "related companies".

[Billy Whizz]

Derby only got a few weeks wages left….



https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-administration-takeover-update-6734328

[Keith_M]

Derby only got a few weeks wages left….



https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-administration-takeover-update-6734328


What's the rule in England regarding new club/old club?

Could somebody buy Derby from the liquidators and carry on as if nothing happened?

[Billy Whizz]

What's the rule in England regarding new club/old club?

Could somebody buy Derby from the liquidators and carry on as if nothing happened?

I think Bury went bust a few years ago, think a consortium have just bought the ground etc. I’m presuming they will have to apply to enter at the bottom of the pyramid

[Billy Whizz]

Another 2 Premier League teams announce massive losses

https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/news/2552684/albions-accounts-for-202021-season-filed

Brighton lost £53.4m

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2554039/everton-accounts-reveal-financial-impact-of-covid

Everton lost £120.9m

Scary numbers

[Iggy Pope]

I think Bury went bust a few years ago, think a consortium have just bought the ground etc. I’m presuming they will have to apply to enter at the bottom of the pyramid

Bury started again with a phoenix club and now there is hope of a merged interest and playing again at Gigg Lane but as has happened a couple of times at other clubs, factions could tear each other to bits.

[Latapy'sVolley]

Brighton lost £53.4m


Bad news for our thriving strategic partnership.

[Billy Whizz]

Worth a wee read, presume it only applies to England?
Championship clubs wages to turnover ratio at 107%, pretty scary

https://news.sky.com/story/footballs-unsustainable-finances-to-be-tackled-by-govt-and-fans-will-get-a-greater-say-in-their-clubs-12598493

[Diclonius]

Bad news for our thriving strategic partnership.

Only be able to send one player to Hearts or Aberdeen in the summer, gutted.

[Is It On....]

Another 2 Premier League teams announce massive losses

https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/news/2552684/albions-accounts-for-202021-season-filed

Brighton lost £53.4m

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2554039/everton-accounts-reveal-financial-impact-of-covid

Everton lost £120.9m

Scary numbers

Can you imagine the Everton numbers if they get relegated?

[LancashireHibby]

Can you imagine the Everton numbers if they get relegated?
Particularly as you'd imagine they didn't have any relegation-based wage cuts in players contracts. It'll be some fire sale.

[gbhibby]

Another 2 Premier League teams announce massive losses

https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/news/2552684/albions-accounts-for-202021-season-filed

Brighton lost £53.4m

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2554039/everton-accounts-reveal-financial-impact-of-covid

Everton lost £120.9m

Scary numbers
Everton are building a new stadium as well so they will have to stay up.

[blackpoolhibs]

Everton are building a new stadium as well so they will have to stay up.

I'd doubt that would go ahead if they are relegated? :confused:

[HH81]

I'd doubt that would go ahead if they are relegated? :confused:

Already started. Seen a video on YouTube.

[blackpoolhibs]

Already started. Seen a video on YouTube.

Never knew that, would be a real kick in the baws financially if they do go down, might only build one stand. :greengrin

[HH81]

Never knew that, would be a real kick in the baws financially if they do go down, might only build one stand. :greengrin

You would think they had the funding in place separately to the club money for bills and players etc.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

The parachute payment into the championship will help them (if relegated)

[Billy Whizz]

The parachute payment into the championship will help them (if relegated)

I think it’s very unfair on other championship clubs, when the teams that go down get massive amounts of parachute monies, and generally go straight back up

[MWHIBBIES]

I think it’s very unfair on other championship clubs, when the teams that go down get massive amounts of parachute monies, and generally go straight back up

Don't think that is true. Norwich, Fulham and West Brom come back up because they are well run. Bournemouth could come back up this year (probably more to do with a rich owner and years of premier league money)

Huddersfield, Middlesbrough, Blackburn, QPR, Stoke, Swansea, Hull, Cardiff, Birmingham, Reading, Sheffield United, Bolton, Sunderland and Wigan have all gone down in the last 10 years and not come back up. West Brom are actually struggling big time too.

[LancashireHibby]

The average parachute payment is £33m a year so it's still a huge drop on the £100m(plus?) that they'll have received the previous season

I've worked at a club in the aftermath of relegation and it is not pretty.

[jacomo]

Particularly as you'd imagine they didn't have any relegation-based wage cuts in players contracts. It'll be some fire sale.


Play with fire, get burned.

I know Evertonians and it’s a fine club, but they sold their soul for Russian gangster money. Reap what you sow.