House prices

[Mr mirror]

I’m no expert whatsoever so when my daughter asked if she should buy her new house now or wait till after winter, I had no idea what to tell her, so I was wondering if someone more savvy could help me point her in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated

[danhibees1875]

Most experts seem to think there's going to be a market "correction" soon from what I've seen but I think it's as impossible to know for sure as anything else.

Usually I'd just say to not worry about it, and just go with the philosophy that if it's a price you're happy with then go for it and treat it as a home rather than an investment but in the current climate it's maybe easier to just wait a bit and see.

[neil7908]

I've put my flat on the market and it seems like there are big variations depending on what your buying and where.

We're struggling to sell our place in Leith and there are loads of other 2 bed flats in our area that haven't shifted in weeks.

However, I know from friends and our own enquiries that houses in Edinburgh with gardens are being snapped up, and in the cases I'm aware of, well above home report price.

As the above poster has said, I don't think anyone can predict right now what will happen but with massive job losses and probably a no deal Brexit coming, I just can't see any other direction for prices than dropping or stagnation.

My advice would be to spend a bit of time researching prices and time on market for the location and type of property you are looking for. As I've said, my experience in Edinburgh is that the 'boom' post lockdown is either not consistent or starting to fade.

But again, as the poster above has mentioned, if you find the right place within your budget then it might change your decision.

[easty]

Most experts seem to think there's going to be a market "correction" soon from what I've seen but I think it's as impossible to know for sure as anything else.

Usually I'd just say to not worry about it, and just go with the philosophy that if it's a price you're happy with then go for it and treat it as a home rather than an investment but in the current climate it's maybe easier to just wait a bit and see.

We’ve been hearing about the next housing market crash for years. Eventually the experts will be right. I’m not convinced it’ll be now, but I’m no expert,

[McD]

My brother and his wife have been looking to move, and have put offers in on 3 houses in south east Edinburgh in the last couple of months, and all have gone for 45-55k higher than the valuation

[Ozyhibby]

There is almost always a crash when unemployment rises and it is due to rise big time when furlough ends. However the fact that interest rates are so low may mean that it is a very small correction rather than a crash.
I put a flat on the market at the end of lockdown and it sold after 6 days at 8% over home report so at that point there was more confidence than you have expected out there. I was very surprised.


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[Billy Whizz]

I heard John Beattie on radio Scotland last week. They were discussing house prices
He said he’s a friend working in this sector, and some homes were going £100k over the asking price
You just wonder, with more people home working, what will this add to certain types of houses, where they have space for offices etc

[superfurryhibby]

My son, just moved back from London tells me that the London market is stagnant and there are more offer under than over.

Once unemployment kicks in properly there will be a fall in demand and a fall in prices in Edinburgh. The rest of the country, Friar Tucked.

[Peevemor]

I've put my flat on the market and it seems like there are big variations depending on what your buying and where.

We're struggling to sell our place in Leith and there are loads of other 2 bed flats in our area that haven't shifted in weeks.

However, I know from friends and our own enquiries that houses in Edinburgh with gardens are being snapped up, and in the cases I'm aware of, well above home report price.

As the above poster has said, I don't think anyone can predict right now what will happen but with massive job losses and probably a no deal Brexit coming, I just can't see any other direction for prices than dropping or stagnation.

My advice would be to spend a bit of time researching prices and time on market for the location and type of property you are looking for. As I've said, my experience in Edinburgh is that the 'boom' post lockdown is either not consistent or starting to fade.

But again, as the poster above has mentioned, if you find the right place within your budget then it might change your decision.

This is what's happening all over France - lockdown has increased the demand in more rural areas and for gardens.

[RyeSloan]

The problem with the property market is that it’s extremely distorted.

Super low interest rates and all manner of direct government intervention means it’s rather hard to call.

Chuck in the post lockdown ‘boom’ and it’s no wonder you couldn’t give your daughter any sage advice!

For what it’s worth if I was a first time buyer just now I’d absolutely be waiting till the dark days of winter before looking to buy...there is of course no certainty to anything, esp. the property market but the chances of a correction (despite the afore mentioned interference) look higher than the chances of a continuing ‘boom’.

But as others have said of the right place at the right price at an affordable level is presented then it would be well worth considering.

Sadly this is a topic that simply has no right answer and the Crystal ball gazers rarely call correctly.

[GlesgaeHibby]

One thing to consider would be what size of deposit she has. Lenders have already dropped max LTV limits. If there is a correction in the market it may move further.

I think the government got the timing of the lbtt relief wrong. There was always going to be pent up demand post lockdown. Any lbtt relief should have been applied as things started to cool.

It's amazing how quickly things have changed. 2 bed flats in Leith have sold like hotcakes for a while now. I guess with people looking for garden space, less people looking to rent (students doing courses from home) and less tourists / demand for Airbnb properties it's having an impact on 2 bed flats.

[Mon Dieu4]

I also live in Leith and about 5 houses/flats round me have been sold within a couple of weeks of going on the market recently and the flats all have a shared garden

[neil7908]

I also live in Leith and about 5 houses/flats round me have been sold within a couple of weeks of going on the market recently and the flats all have a shared garden

Think that's a good point. I'm in a new build and other new build flats around me are struggling from what I can see. But I've seen a few tenement flats that are a bit cheaper and have garden access going very quickly.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

I moved down to Peebles from midlothian 2 years ago. My partner works in one of the estate agents and says that houses are flying off the market

It could be that many are choosing house over proximity to work/city just now with the current climate.

We're in the process of moving so looking to get that over the line this year before the "crash" ARRIVES

[Colr]

I’m no expert whatsoever so when my daughter asked if she should buy her new house now or wait till after winter, I had no idea what to tell her, so I was wondering if someone more savvy could help me point her in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated

Rises now are pent up demand and relocation due to lifestyle. Expect prices to fall as the economy deteriorates. Esp after Brexit.

Use the time to do a lot of research and focus in on what you want/where. Then be ready to move quickly if we get a fire sale.

[Smartie]

I'm going to need to move soonish.

My flats don't have the appropriate certification re cladding (in spite of not actually having cladding), and the folk who do the certifications have an enormous backlog due to coronavirus, so the flat is technically worthless.

I could have done with flogging it just now, cashing in and avoiding the problems we all think are inevitable over the next few years.

It'll probably be sorted within the next 6 months but I'm probably going to end up renting it out and renting a family home elsewhere.

[Mr mirror]

Thanks to you all for taking the time to reply

[Speedy]

It's something I'm thinking about too.

Initially I expected a crash but a chunk of the population who are still earning have been spending less so are able to afford more (certainly at lower end where larger deposits are required). Also with interest rates being low, savers with a lot of cash may look at buy to lets to get a better return.

But in summary, who knows!?

[greenlex]

I’m currently between houses. Mine sold a number of weeks ago for well over valuation. I could have sold it four or five times over.
I’m waiting on a new build being finished. It should be ready in four to five weeks. The next lot in the same street are now being sold. Same house in the same street being built just a few months later. 10k more expensive. This can’t go on.

[Andy Bee]

I’m currently between houses. Mine sold a number of weeks ago for well over valuation. I could have sold it four or five times over.
I’m waiting on a new build being finished. It should be ready in four to five weeks. The next lot in the same street are now being sold. Same house in the same street being built just a few months later. 10k more expensive. This can’t go on.


Just bought a fixer upper 4 bed semi yesterday 2 mins walk from me A, chatting with the seller he averaged 7 30min viewings a day and went to bids on the 8th day of listing it. It's absolutely mental at the moment.

[Mibbes Aye]

I can fully see how demand will increase in rural towns, that are still reasonably commutable to the main cities.

Over the years i have gradually moved south and south from Edinburgh, and every move has been a gain in terms of house size or garden size, for essentially the same money.

Now in the position where commuting isn’t going to be as much a pain, because the whole world is adapting to MS Teams or Zoom and I imagine a lot of office leases will just go.

Raises the question as to why you wouldn’t move out to a market town or large market village - if you can still get a good price on an Edinburgh house you can probably trade up to something much bigger or better in the Lothians or over in Fife or down in the Borders.

[easty]

I can fully see how demand will increase in rural towns, that are still reasonably commutable to the main cities.

Over the years i have gradually moved south and south from Edinburgh, and every move has been a gain in terms of house size or garden size, for essentially the same money.

Now in the position where commuting isn’t going to be as much a pain, because the whole world is adapting to MS Teams or Zoom and I imagine a lot of office leases will just go.

Raises the question as to why you wouldn’t move out to a market town or large market village - if you can still get a good price on an Edinburgh house you can probably trade up to something much bigger or better in the Lothians or over in Fife or down in the Borders.

I can work from home and live in Edinburgh, and I’ll be selling my place next year. I’ll be buying somewhere else in Edinburgh though. I’ve got absolutely no interest in rural living. I’d much rather compromise on the property than the location.

[Moulin Yarns]

I can fully see how demand will increase in rural towns, that are still reasonably commutable to the main cities.

Over the years i have gradually moved south and south from Edinburgh, and every move has been a gain in terms of house size or garden size, for essentially the same money.

Now in the position where commuting isn’t going to be as much a pain, because the whole world is adapting to MS Teams or Zoom and I imagine a lot of office leases will just go.

Raises the question as to why you wouldn’t move out to a market town or large market village - if you can still get a good price on an Edinburgh house you can probably trade up to something much bigger or better in the Lothians or over in Fife or down in the Borders.

My wife's walk to work is half an hour and yesterday she passed 8 for sale boards. A few with sold or under offer on them.

The 2 bedroom bungalow next door to us is for sale, £250,000 if anyone is interested. the owner has never lived there having let it out on 6 month Let's. They live in Shrewsbury.

[Since90+2]

I can work from home and live in Edinburgh, and I’ll be selling my place next year. I’ll be buying somewhere else in Edinburgh though. I’ve got absolutely no interest in rural living. I’d much rather compromise on the property than the location.

Same with myself. I just can't imagine living in a rural location with limited options for bars, restaurants and shops ect and I am happy to pay a premium to get be living within walking distance to Edinburgh city centre.

[calumhibee1]

I can work from home and live in Edinburgh, and I’ll be selling my place next year. I’ll be buying somewhere else in Edinburgh though. I’ve got absolutely no interest in rural living. I’d much rather compromise on the property than the location.

I’m the same. I live in Stockbridge and know I could get a 4 bed detached house on the outskirts for the price of my two bedroom flat but I’d much rather a smaller property and the ability to walk everywhere. Besides, the costs of travel would increase massively for me seeing as I hardly ever have to drive and haven’t got on a bus in 10 years due to where I stay.

[Scouse Hibee]

Same with myself. I just can't imagine living in a rural location with limited options for bars, restaurants and shops ect and I am happy to pay a premium to get be living within walking distance to Edinburgh city centre.

Me too, always been a city boy and love the way of life.

[Speedy]

Same with myself. I just can't imagine living in a rural location with limited options for bars, restaurants and shops ect and I am happy to pay a premium to get be living within walking distance to Edinburgh city centre.

Likewise. Having living out of the city before, I don't particularly want to do it again.

[One Day Soon]

I’m no expert whatsoever so when my daughter asked if she should buy her new house now or wait till after winter, I had no idea what to tell her, so I was wondering if someone more savvy could help me point her in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated

The only comment I would add to the others you have had is that to some extent it makes little difference whether you buy now or in Winter if the house purchase is a 'for life' or at least very long term one. Yes she may pay more or less buying now or buying in Winter but in respect of worries about equity (of the negative sort) in the longer term price inflation will likely more than take care of increasing value and protecting equity so as long as she's confident of work and wants to live in it for a lengthy period - say a decade or more - she should be fine buying at either time.

[Andy Bee]

Same with myself. I just can't imagine living in a rural location with limited options for bars, restaurants and shops ect and I am happy to pay a premium to get be living within walking distance to Edinburgh city centre.


Whilst I understand your point, you make it sound like we all wear bear skin furs and hunt for food out here in the stix. :hilarious Lockdown enforced my belief I'm better outside city limits. I really can't comprehend how people who lived in flats without gardens got through it, especially with kids, it must have been really tough.

I give city living a plus for how impressive the list is on the Justeat app though, I'm seriously envious. :agree:

[Mibbes Aye]

Whilst I understand your point, you make it sound like we all wear bear skin furs and hunt for food out here in the stix. :hilarious Lockdown enforced my belief I'm better outside city limits. I really can't comprehend how people who lived in flats without gardens got through it, especially with kids, it must have been really tough.

I give city living a plus for how impressive the list is on the Justeat app though, I'm seriously envious. :agree:

I grew up in Edinburgh and while I love it, I know that in Peebles, Melrose, Lauder and Jedburgh to name just four, you have a choice of decent pubs, some very good and mid-range restaurants, delis, quality butchers, quality fruit and veg stores and the Co-op, which has probably the best points scheme of any of the supermarkets :greengrin

I think you are spot on about the garden space, it has made a massive difference for us through lockdown. Overall, the quality of life is just better IMO -people know each other in a small town. Local tradesmen, mechanics etc will do jobs and not ask for payment, just say they will get the bill to you at some point. This can be weeks or even months, there is just a lot of trust. So as long as you put the money aside it’s all good! Crime and ASB is relatively low, actually minimal.

Pre-lockdown we spent a fair bit of time in Edinburgh - favourite restaurants, concerts, Hibs etc -and generally just booked a hotel in advance. You always got a good deal somewhere. The Premier Inn on St Mary’s Street was usually good value, As was the place out past Corstorphine -think it used to be called the Capital? And some good B&Bs around Haymarket.

If I had the financial wherewithal I would love to have a small flat in the city for when I come up but to be honest, the cost of that would also enable me to buy an apartment in one of the places I like to visit on holiday and that sounds more attractive.

[Ozyhibby]

I grew up in Edinburgh and while I love it, I know that in Peebles, Melrose, Lauder and Jedburgh to name just four, you have a choice of decent pubs, some very good and mid-range restaurants, delis, quality butchers, quality fruit and veg stores and the Co-op, which has probably the best points scheme of any of the supermarkets :greengrin

I think you are spot on about the garden space, it has made a massive difference for us through lockdown. Overall, the quality of life is just better IMO -people know each other in a small town. Local tradesmen, mechanics etc will do jobs and not ask for payment, just say they will get the bill to you at some point. This can be weeks or even months, there is just a lot of trust. So as long as you put the money aside it’s all good! Crime and ASB is relatively low, actually minimal.

Pre-lockdown we spent a fair bit of time in Edinburgh - favourite restaurants, concerts, Hibs etc -and generally just booked a hotel in advance. You always got a good deal somewhere. The Premier Inn on St Mary’s Street was usually good value, As was the place out past Corstorphine -think it used to be called the Capital? And some good B&Bs around Haymarket.

If I had the financial wherewithal I would love to have a small flat in the city for when I come up but to be honest, the cost of that would also enable me to buy an apartment in one of the places I like to visit on holiday and that sounds more attractive.

I’ve often thought it would be nice to own a holiday home abroad but then I remind myself that it means going to the same place all the time and constantly paying for its upkeep. Even if I retire to the sun I think I will just rent and maybe move about from year to year.


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[Mibbes Aye]

I’ve often thought it would be nice to own a holiday home abroad but then I remind myself that it means going to the same place all the time and constantly paying for its upkeep. Even if I retire to the sun I think I will just rent and maybe move about from year to year.


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Yeah, I think for us we know that we want to (and did) go to the same city a few times a year, even the couple of neighbourhoods we would want to stay in. We have friends there, speak the language to a limited but growing extent and it ticks all the boxes as to what we want from being off work and enjoying ourselves.

It is difficult to buy there as a foreigner though, and Covid has changed everything. It would need a proper evaluation about whether it was cost-effective to own or just rent. Also consideration about getting residency and ultimately citizenship should one get to retirement age and think about it being the main domicile. Again that was strictly regulated but leaving the EU has probably made it a gazillion times worse.

[Jones28]

Same with myself. I just can't imagine living in a rural location with limited options for bars, restaurants and shops ect and I am happy to pay a premium to get be living within walking distance to Edinburgh city centre.

I used to feel that way, but having moved to Berwickshire a few years ago I’ll never live in the city again.

[superfurryhibby]

Same with myself. I just can't imagine living in a rural location with limited options for bars, restaurants and shops ect and I am happy to pay a premium to get be living within walking distance to Edinburgh city centre.

Admiring your optimism, but I suspect Edinburgh city centre won't be offering many of those facilities during the coming months.

I suppose it's about age and circumstances. I'm about to put my house up for sale and planning on relocating, anywhere within 1-1.5 hrs from town. Bars, restaurants etc, I can live with out. Decent sized house and garden, essential.

[calumhibee1]

I grew up in Edinburgh and while I love it, I know that in Peebles, Melrose, Lauder and Jedburgh to name just four, you have a choice of decent pubs, some very good and mid-range restaurants, delis, quality butchers, quality fruit and veg stores and the Co-op, which has probably the best points scheme of any of the supermarkets :greengrin

I think you are spot on about the garden space, it has made a massive difference for us through lockdown. Overall, the quality of life is just better IMO -people know each other in a small town. Local tradesmen, mechanics etc will do jobs and not ask for payment, just say they will get the bill to you at some point. This can be weeks or even months, there is just a lot of trust. So as long as you put the money aside it’s all good! Crime and ASB is relatively low, actually minimal.

Pre-lockdown we spent a fair bit of time in Edinburgh - favourite restaurants, concerts, Hibs etc -and generally just booked a hotel in advance. You always got a good deal somewhere. The Premier Inn on St Mary’s Street was usually good value, As was the place out past Corstorphine -think it used to be called the Capital? And some good B&Bs around Haymarket.

If I had the financial wherewithal I would love to have a small flat in the city for when I come up but to be honest, the cost of that would also enable me to buy an apartment in one of the places I like to visit on holiday and that sounds more attractive.

Obviously it depends where you stay out of town, but crime seems to be a big issue to my mates that live in the likes of Musselburgh, Dalkeith, Wallyford etc.

I’ve lost count of the amount of times they’ve told me of people trying their doors, people trying their neighbours doors, stolen cars in their estates, people peering in their windows during the night, their neighbourhood Facebook groups constantly having pictures put up from people’s security cameras of thieves (the fact so many people in these estates feel they even need security cameras is enough to put me off) and they’ve only lived there for a year or two.

I’ve lived in Stockbridge for just short of 30 years and have never been broken into, neither have any of my neighbours that I know of and as far as I’m aware nobody has even caught somebody attempting it.

Whenever I go out to one of their houses I do always envy what they’ve got for their money but then once I start the 45 minute drive home from their estate that has next to nowhere within walking distance I realise I just could never see myself moving out of town.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I can fully see how demand will increase in rural towns, that are still reasonably commutable to the main cities.

Over the years i have gradually moved south and south from Edinburgh, and every move has been a gain in terms of house size or garden size, for essentially the same money.

Now in the position where commuting isn’t going to be as much a pain, because the whole world is adapting to MS Teams or Zoom and I imagine a lot of office leases will just go.

Raises the question as to why you wouldn’t move out to a market town or large market village - if you can still get a good price on an Edinburgh house you can probably trade up to something much bigger or better in the Lothians or over in Fife or down in the Borders.

Agree. Moved to Haddington last year and it's been a great move for us. Good town centre, and still handy enough for town. Being able to go out running in the countryside is great. The biggest plus for us this year, having moved from a flat to a detached house, has been having our own garden. Lockdown would have been a real struggle without it.

Appreciate everyone is different, and many couldn't give up city life. I've reached an age where having a bigger house and outdoor space with countryside on my doorstop is much more attractive to me than city living.

[Smartie]

My family think I'm bonkers for not wanting to move to the country and to have a garden.

Saturday I took my wee girl to the park at the Links. Sunday we took her to Dalkeith Country Park.

I've quite enjoyed getting the odd vegetable from my partner's Dad's garden this summer but other than one, wasp-afflicted barbecue there I've not really spent much time in gardens this year and I've not really felt like I've missed out.

During lockdown I was out with my wee girl in her buggy a lot, getting to know a lot of the paths around the North of the city. We're not exactly short of green spaces in Edinburgh so I'm a bit bemused by all the benefits having a garden would bring.

I grew up in a small town and hated it. It was dull and I never warmed to the people there, I've never felt like I was "from" there. Most folk either love it and stay there all their life, others (like me) leave hoping never to have to move back to live.

Unfortunately I can't afford to bring up a family in the city so a move is inevitable. There's a big bit of it will break my heart though. I think you're more likely to find people you've got something in common with in a city, and that is the most important thing whereas you're at the mercy of a while load of other stuff in a smaller town.

[Mon Dieu4]

Going back to this thread, just to show how crazy Edinburgh prices still are, I bought my house in Sept 2018 for £124k, the same house a few doors away has just sold for £181k, my old next door neighbours house is up for sale just now at offers over £150k

I did get a wee bit of a bargain on mine but the fact someone has paid £57k more than I did 2 years ago is bat**** crazy especially in the middle of everything that's going on

[Jamesie]

I bought a two bed new build in 2007 not too far from Easter Road and I’m still in it now: did consider moving to the West End of Glasgow a few years back when dating a Glaswegian but ultimately that wasn’t to be. I was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time in 2007 and even though it wasn’t long before the crash I paid 20% less than some neighbours for exactly the same property given it was the last one in the development.

Sure, it hasn’t appreciated in value in the same manner as some parts of Edinburgh and doesn’t have the bells and whistles of balcony, garden etc but it is ageing reasonably well and if I was to sell tomorrow I could probably buy a semi detached new build in the Borders without the need for further borrowing.

Question is - would I want to? The position might be different if I wasn’t 39 and living on my tod and if I had a family and other commitments. As matters stand though, the ability to shut the front door and be on Princes Street in 25 minutes on foot is hard to give up!

[Itsnoteasy]

This is what gets on my goat with the SNP. LBTT/stamp duty is currently paid on any property over £250000 with the covid tax breaks. Lets just say you buy something for £495000, that is £20750 on top of the property price. In England you buy the same house for same value you pay nadda stamp duty.

[easty]

This is what gets on my goat with the SNP. LBTT/stamp duty is currently paid on any property over £250000 with the covid tax breaks. Lets just say you buy something for £495000, that is £20750 on top of the property price. In England you buy the same house for same value you pay nadda stamp duty.

Tax and fees are different in different countries. I don’t really see the issue? If we were just to copy whatever England did, what would be that point in the Scottish parliament?

It’s swings and roundabouts anyway, if someone in England wants to buy a house for £495000 then yeah they’ll be better off by £20k. If that person went to Uni down there for 4 years then they’d pay almost £40k in fees, up here they wouldn’t.

[Andy Bee]

Tax and fees are different in different countries. I don’t really see the issue? If we were just to copy whatever England did, what would be that point in the Scottish parliament?

It’s swings and roundabouts anyway, if someone in England wants to buy a house for £495000 then yeah they’ll be better off by £20k. If that person went to Uni down there for 4 years then they’d pay almost £40k in fees, up here they wouldn’t.


I very much doubt a student would be buying a half million quid house.

I've got a bigger problem of why 4% stamp duty is still in place for purchasers of a 2nd/3rd/4th/5th etc house unless it's below £40k. It stinks of smacking those pesky landlords.

[Since90+2]

I very much doubt a student would be buying a half million quid house.

I've got a bigger problem of why 4% stamp duty is still in place for purchasers of a 2nd/3rd/4th/5th etc house unless it's below £40k. It stinks of smacking those pesky landlords.

Whilst a huge proportion of society are struggling to be able to own their own home then it's absolutely right that there is a tax applied to those who are fortunate enough to be able to own 2/3/4 homes. I actually think the tax should be higher.

Housing should not be a commodity for people to make money on.

[Future17]

I very much doubt a student would be buying a half million quid house.

I've got a bigger problem of why 4% stamp duty is still in place for purchasers of a 2nd/3rd/4th/5th etc house unless it's below £40k. It stinks of smacking those pesky landlords.

Why, specifically, do you have a problem with that? Why do you think someone shouldn't pay that tax because they own more assets?

[danhibees1875]

Why, specifically, do you have a problem with that? Why do you think someone shouldn't pay that tax because they own more assets?

I think he means the additional dwelling supplement (?) that's over and above the normal levels of lbtt/stamp rather than suggesting they pay no tax at all.

I think it makes sense, it's just a progressive tax method like a lot of others. I can see why some might have an argument to loosen that slightly, even allowing for a second house with no additional rate though.


As for the Scot-Eng differences, swings and roundabouts as mentioned above. I'd imagine there probably is a correlation between being a graduate and higher house prices/tax generally.

[Scouse Hibee]

Whilst a huge proportion of society are struggling to be able to own their own home then it's absolutely right that there is a tax applied to those who are fortunate enough to be able to own 2/3/4 homes. I actually think the tax should be higher.

Housing should not be a commodity for people to make money on.

Why?

If a normal guy like me works hard, makes money and decides to invest that money into a second property, surely I should be entitled to make money on my investment.

[easty]

I very much doubt a student would be buying a half million quid house.

I've got a bigger problem of why 4% stamp duty is still in place for purchasers of a 2nd/3rd/4th/5th etc house unless it's below £40k. It stinks of smacking those pesky landlords.

Not straight away, but in time they might.

I think that the additional LBTT shouldn’t exist for buying a second home, or it should be lower and get progressively higher by number of houses. Im biased though. I know that the additional LBTT means I won’t be able to purchase a second home. I’d love to rent out my place, when I buy a new house, but it’d cost me about £13k extra in LBTT and that’s just impossible for me. Seems like a good way to keep additional houses for the “rich” already, while keeping me in my place.

[Ozyhibby]

The user always pays with any tax. A tax on landlords is really a tax on tenants. It results in higher rent for people.
It’s madness when we have a housing crisis to attack people who supply houses.


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[Since90+2]

Why?

If a normal guy like me works hard, makes money and decides to invest that money into a second property, surely I should be entitled to make money on my investment.

There are other ways to make and invest money that doesn't impact on the ability of normal working class people to be able to own their own home.

[RyeSloan]

The user always pays with any tax. A tax on landlords is really a tax on tenants. It results in higher rent for people.
It’s madness when we have a housing crisis to attack people who supply houses.


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The user always pays point is a good one.

Private landlords have certainly been well presented as the bogey man here and are a classic example where most people don’t care so are open to a nice attack from the tax man.

It is funny tho that it’s often the way that people who most support government or housing associations owning and renting properties to the masses also seem to be those that are most against the private landlord and his dastardly profiteering ways.

Fine for the state to own the rental property but not it’s citizens.

As for the general stamp duty debate...just more distortion to the market from government. If they wanted to fix anything then they should go back to a sensible transaction tax level and stop taking tens of thousands of pounds off people simply because they want to move their family home.

[easty]

There are other ways to make and invest money that doesn't impact on the ability of normal working class people to be able to own their own home.

Owning a home isn’t a human right

[Since90+2]

Owning a home isn’t a human right

We'll have to disagree on that one fella.

[easty]

We'll have to disagree on that one fella.

Everyone should have a roof over their head. No reason you should have to own that roof.

[Since90+2]

Everyone should have a roof over their head. No reason you should have to own that roof.

I'm assuming you on your own home? I do also however I can't help thinking you may feel slightly differently if you didn't.

I could be completely wrong and you just rent so apologies in advance if so.

[easty]

I'm assuming you on your own home? I do also however I can't help thinking you may feel slightly differently if you didn't.

I could be completely wrong and you just rent so apologies in advance if so.

I do now yeah, but growing up I didn’t. My family never owned a home, or had a car. It was fine. My dad bought a flat a few years ago, my mums always been in rented accommodation. I don’t have a problem with that. I saved up my money, and put it down as a deposit on a house. If I couldn’t save, I’d rent.

I don’t see it as any different to anything else. You do what you can afford to do.

[neil7908]

The user always pays with any tax. A tax on landlords is really a tax on tenants. It results in higher rent for people.
It’s madness when we have a housing crisis to attack people who supply houses.


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I really need to pick you up on the idea that landlords supply houses. House builders supply houses. Landlords do not. The house will exist whether or not the landlord or someone else owns it.

Landlords are an essential part of the housing mix but it's crystal clear to most that the pendulum has swung too far and some level of correction is needed. That's not the fault of good landlords but too many have been creaming it in from Airbnb and offering poor quality housing, whilst making huge sums from the taxpayer in the form of housing benefit.

[neil7908]

Everyone should have a roof over their head. No reason you should have to own that roof.

What happens to those renters when they hit 65 and retire?

[easty]

What happens to those renters when they hit 65 and retire?

I’d assume there’s housing benefits for that? If you don’t have a pension that covers it.

[Ozyhibby]

I really need to pick you up on the idea that landlords supply houses. House builders supply houses. Landlords do not. The house will exist whether or not the landlord or someone else owns it.

Landlords are an essential part of the housing mix but it's crystal clear to most that the pendulum has swung too far and some level of correction is needed. That's not the fault of good landlords but too many have been creaming it in from Airbnb and offering poor quality housing, whilst making huge sums from the taxpayer in the form of housing benefit.

I beg to differ. A lot of housing development would simply not go ahead if it wasn’t for the pre selling of flats and houses to landlords off-plan. They are an essential part of the ability to finance a lot of projects. Banks often insist on it before granting final release of funds for a project.


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[Speedy]

Why?

If a normal guy like me works hard, makes money and decides to invest that money into a second property, surely I should be entitled to make money on my investment.

No tax means more incentive for investors, which drives up house prices, meaning more people can't afford to buy.

Rental demand then goes up, rental prices go up, yield goes up, investors are further incentivised to buy, house/rent prices go up...etc etc the cycle goes on


The user always pays with any tax. A tax on landlords is really a tax on tenants. It results in higher rent for people.
It’s madness when we have a housing crisis to attack people who supply houses.


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As above. Not sure I buy it that a one off tax is a bad thing for renters.

[Ozyhibby]

No tax means more incentive for investors, which drives up house prices, meaning more people can't afford to buy.

Rental demand then goes up, rental prices go up, yield goes up, investors are further incentivised to buy, house/rent prices go up...etc etc the cycle goes on



As above. Not sure I buy it that a one off tax is a bad thing for renters.

Prices are high because we deliberately restrict supply while doing nothing to discourage demand.
Investors are not the problem with the housing market.


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[Since90+2]

Prices are high because we deliberately restrict supply while doing nothing to discourage demand.
Investors are not the problem with the housing market.


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And because we have people buying multiple homes so they can make money off the market. They are adding to the demand.

[Scouse Hibee]

There are other ways to make and invest money that doesn't impact on the ability of normal working class people to be able to own their own home.

Normal working class people?
That’s exactly what I am!

[Since90+2]

Normal working class people?
That’s exactly what I am!

But by the sounds of it you already own your own home so I'm not sure it impacts you. I suspect you are probably older too so likely bought a home when it was far far easier for people to get on the property ladder than it is now.

By people buying 2nd or 3rd homes to make money they are adding to the demand within the market and driving up prices this making it harder for those on lower incomes to own a home.

[Scouse Hibee]

But by the sounds of it you already own your own home so I'm not sure it impacts you. I suspect you are probably older too so likely bought a home when it was far far easier for people to get on the property ladder than it is now.

By people buying 2nd or 3rd homes to make money they are adding to the demand within the market and driving up prices this making it harder for those on lower incomes to own a home.

**** me! How to make a man feel old at 53 😁😥

[Since90+2]

**** me! How to make a man feel old at 53 😁😥

Just in terms of the discussion around home ownership as back when you when a youngster access to the market was much easier.

In general though I agree - 53 ain't old!

[Scouse Hibee]

Just in terms of the discussion around home ownership as back when you when a youngster access to the market was much easier.

In general though I agree - 53 ain't old!

👍

[EI255]

People who lived in flats want a garden now.

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[pollution]

But by the sounds of it you already own your own home so I'm not sure it impacts you. I suspect you are probably older too so likely bought a home when it was far far easier for people to get on the property ladder than it is now.

By people buying 2nd or 3rd homes to make money they are adding to the demand within the market and driving up prices this making it harder for those on lower incomes to own a home.


As for easier to get into the market... in the Eighties it was easier than the Seventies because interest rates were 11% than 15%.

The Nineties were easier than the Eighties as rates were 8% rather than 11%.

Now rates are 4% maybe 2.5% with a good deposit.

My point is it always seems easier in the past but the one important factor is deposit, save for a deposit as large as possible.

[Ozyhibby]

And because we have people buying multiple homes so they can make money off the market. They are adding to the demand.

Only people living in houses adds to demand. Who owns it is irrelevant.


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[Future17]

Only people living in houses adds to demand. Who owns it is irrelevant.


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People living in houses doesn't add to demand. People wanting to buy houses does.

[Ozyhibby]

People living in houses doesn't add to demand. People wanting to buy houses does.

Investors will only buy houses if there are people who want to live in them. That’s why there are parts of the country where you can buy houses for less than £10k but other areas where they are considerably more. There needs to be people willing to live in the houses or they get very cheap very quickly.


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[Future17]

Investors will only buy houses if there are people who want to live in them. That’s why there are parts of the country where you can buy houses for less than £10k but other areas where they are considerably more. There needs to be people willing to live in the houses or they get very cheap very quickly.


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Investors will only buy houses if people want to rent them, which means your statement about who owns them being irrelevant isn't true.

[easty]

As for easier to get into the market... in the Eighties it was easier than the Seventies because interest rates were 11% than 15%.

The Nineties were easier than the Eighties as rates were 8% rather than 11%.

Now rates are 4% maybe 2.5% with a good deposit.

My point is it always seems easier in the past but the one important factor is deposit, save for a deposit as large as possible.

It was easier in the past because houses cost less, in proportion to wages.

[calumhibee1]

Going back to this thread, just to show how crazy Edinburgh prices still are, I bought my house in Sept 2018 for £124k, the same house a few doors away has just sold for £181k, my old next door neighbours house is up for sale just now at offers over £150k

I did get a wee bit of a bargain on mine but the fact someone has paid £57k more than I did 2 years ago is bat**** crazy especially in the middle of everything that's going on

The flats around mine have went from around £330k to £425k in 3 or 4 years so a similar/slightly less sort of increase proportionately. It’s absolutely bonkers.

[Speedy]

Prices are high because we deliberately restrict supply while doing nothing to discourage demand.
Investors are not the problem with the housing market.


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Taxing 2nd homes is a way to discourage demand.

[calumhibee1]

It was easier in the past because houses cost less, in proportion to wages.

:agree:

My mum and dads home cost them around 3-4 xthe average annual yearly salary - which was around £8k a year according to google - when they bought it in the early 80s . That home is now worth around 12 x the annual yearly salary of £29k.

To say it’s more difficult to get on the property ladder now would be the understatement of the century.

[Rocky]

Only people living in houses adds to demand. Who owns it is irrelevant.


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People wishing to profit from others living in houses contributes to higher prices.

[RyeSloan]

:agree:

My mum and dads home cost them around 3-4 xthe average annual yearly salary - which was around £8k a year according to google - when they bought it in the early 80s . That home is now worth around 12 x the annual yearly salary of £29k.

To say it’s more difficult to get on the property ladder now would be the understatement of the century.

Which highlights a couple of things that are frequently conflated in these debates.

Accessibility and affordability.

Despite ever higher up front costs of buying a home the affordability of the mortgage once obtained has actually dramatically improved over the last decade or so. Falling interest rates has resulted in people being able to service debt more easily. One stat I read suggested that in 2018 the average percentage of income going to paying a mortgage in Scotland had dropped from 35% to 20%.

But in the flip side increases to house prices well above average earnings have pushed the required deposit needed well beyond a lot of people’s ability to save over a sensible timeline so locking them out and making accessibility ever more difficult.

I’m far from convinced private landlords are the main driver of that trend but with so many distortions in the market, not least the governments own help to buy and similar schemes,it’s rather difficult to tell what’s what and what is not!

[Ozyhibby]

Taxing 2nd homes is a way to discourage demand.

I’m all for taxing homes that lie empty most of the time.


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[Ozyhibby]

People wishing to profit from others living in houses contributes to higher prices.

What about people who wish to profit from supplying food? Do Tesco, Aldi and Lidl make food more expensive for everyone?


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[Speedy]

What about people who wish to profit from supplying food? Do Tesco, Aldi and Lidl make food more expensive for everyone?


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Surely not a serious comparison? :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Surely not a serious comparison? :greengrin

If people are arguing that profit makes goods more expensive then it’s as good as an comparison.


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[Keith_M]

What about people who wish to profit from supplying food? Do Tesco, Aldi and Lidl make food more expensive for everyone?
...


You could argue that Tesco and the like supply a useful service, wherein they source all kinds of food, and other items, and make them available in a location close to the purchaser of said goods, often at very reasonable prices.


The widespread purchasing of homes for rent, on the other hand, drives prices up. In some areas, people can no longer afford to purchase their own home so have no option but to rent.

Also, some people might have been happy to rent but the cost of doing so has now increased because of the rise in house prices (the purchaser has to charge more to get their money back).

In addition, a lot of people (not all, but enough to make it a problem) that buy-to-let have no interest in putting in any effort to maintain the home and people end up paying over the odds for sub-standard accommodation (I've experienced this myself)

[easty]

But in the flip side increases to house prices well above average earnings have pushed the required deposit needed well beyond a lot of people’s ability to save over a sensible timeline so locking them out and making accessibility ever more difficult.


I just had a quick look on ESPC, there are properties in Edinburgh available for under £100k, with a 95% mortgage you could potentially buy a house with less than £5k deposit.

There’s also plenty shared equity places available.

These homes may not be peoples dream homes, but they can be the first step on the ladder. I don’t love my house, but I’ll sell it and buy something I like better next. Yes, the market is fairly expensive generally, but it’s not impossible for someone to get on the property ladder.

[Speedy]

If people are arguing that profit makes goods more expensive then it’s as good as an comparison.


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It's not really. It's more comparable to someone going into Tesco, buying all the toilet roll then reselling it at the profit in the car park to those who missed out buying it straight from Tesco.

I'm not totally anti buy-to-let btw, I just think it's odd to pretend those additional buyers in the market wouldn't contribute to higher house purchase/rent prices.

[CapitalGreen]

If people are arguing that profit makes goods more expensive then it’s as good as an comparison.


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Anyone with the most basic understanding of economics would not think that is a good comparison. You are comparing near perfect competition of the UK grocery market with the imperfect market of UK housing.

UK supermarkets have highly refined supply chains to ensure supply = demand. Market participants provide homogenous products and engage in competition which drives down prices for the consumer of many staple goods. This helps ensure that essential products such as milk and bread remain affordable for most without need for government intervention.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Anyone with the most basic understanding of economics would not think that is a good comparison. You are comparing near perfect competition of the UK grocery market with the imperfect market of UK housing.

UK supermarkets have highly refined supply chains to ensure supply = demand. Market participants provide homogenous products and engage in competition which drives down prices for the consumer of many staple goods. This helps ensure that essential products such as milk and bread remain affordable for most without need for government intervention.

Totally agree. The housing market doesn't operate like a market, which causes problems and requires government interventions. At the root of the problem is the supply of land.

[Ozyhibby]

Totally agree. The housing market doesn't operate like a market, which causes problems and requires government interventions. At the root of the problem is the supply of land.

I would argue that the govt interventions cause more harm than good. Especially the planning system which deliberately limits supply while people are sleeping in shop doorways.
I agree that it is a very imperfect market but I totally disagree that landlords are the problem.


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[CapitalGreen]

I would argue that the govt interventions cause more harm than good. Especially the planning system which deliberately limits supply while people are sleeping in shop doorways.
I agree that it is a very imperfect market but I totally disagree that landlords are the problem.


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I’m not suggesting landlords are the problem. But if landlords can’t make good money in the Edinburgh housing market on rental income and moderate asset appreciation then they are doing something wrong.

New build developments in Edinburgh don’t struggle so while there may be an argument in some regions that landlords buying off plan are required to make some developments feasible that argument doesn’t really wash in Edinburgh.

Reducing/removing LBTT for 2nd homes may increase supply in the rental market by but would see an increase in demand from landlords which in turn would drive prices up and as you pointed out any increase in costs to a landlord would just be passed onto tenants. So the argument that tenants are bearing the brunt of LBTT also doesn’t really stand up under scrutiny.

[Future17]

Normal working class people?
That’s exactly what I am!

These things are open to interpretation but, if you derive part of your income from letting property to others, I'd suggest you're not working class.

[Ozyhibby]

These things are open to interpretation but, if you derive part of your income from letting property to others, I'd suggest you're not working class.

Absolute nonsense.[emoji23]


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[Scouse Hibee]

These things are open to interpretation but, if you derive part of your income from letting property to others, I'd suggest you're not working class.

I don’t so I’m fine.

[Since90+2]

Absolute nonsense.[emoji23]


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If you are well off enough to own multiple homes then you are certainly better off than a huge proportion of the country.

[Ozyhibby]

If you are well off enough to own multiple homes then you are certainly better off than a huge proportion of the country.

I’m a joiner who now spends most of my time maintaining properties. Not sure how that became middle or upper class?


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[Future17]

Absolute nonsense.[emoji23]


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In what way?

[Since90+2]

I’m a joiner who now spends most of my time maintaining properties. Not sure how that became middle or upper class?


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If you own multiple properties the likelihood is you are probably in the top 25% or so of people in this country in terms of personal wealth.

Can people really claim to be working class when you are better off financially than 75% of the population?

[McD]

If you own multiple properties the likelihood is you are probably in the top 25% or so of people in this country in terms of personal wealth.

Can people really claim to be working class when you are better off financially than 75% of the population?



Depends on how one interprets the point - if someone has a job, and works, regardless of salary, couldn't they be considered working class? It is the literal meaning of the word


For what its worth, I'd agree with the general statement that someone who owns multiple properties is certainly most likely to be in the upper levels of affluency

[marinello59]

I’m a joiner who now spends most of my time maintaining properties. Not sure how that became middle or upper class?


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Ian Blackford claims to be a humble crofter. Which class do you reckon he falls in to? :greengrin

[neil7908]

I’m a joiner who now spends most of my time maintaining properties. Not sure how that became middle or upper class?


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Depends. If you are maintaining other folks properties that probably makes you working class. If you are maintaining your own then that's a much harder argument to make.

[JimBHibees]

Ian Blackford claims to be a humble crofter. Which class do you reckon he falls in to? :greengrin

Humble would denote working class :greengrin

[Smartie]

Is all this class stuff not a bit 1970s?

[Ozyhibby]

Is all this class stuff not a bit 1970s?

Yip. I really don’t care what folk label people. I take them as I find them anyway.


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[Since90+2]

Is all this class stuff not a bit 1970s?

It's probably easier to say that financially well off people buying 2nd and 3rd homes to make money off them makes it more difficult for those less financially well off to get on the property ladder.

I don't see how that can be disputed.

[Future17]

Yip. I really don’t care what folk label people. I take them as I find them anyway.


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:greengrin

[RyeSloan]

It's probably easier to say that financially well off people buying 2nd and 3rd homes to make money off them makes it more difficult for those less financially well off to get on the property ladder.

I don't see how that can be disputed.

Because it’s a far too simplistic view of the dynamics of the housing market.

House prices fell for most of the 90’s. Did Landlords not buy houses for private rentals then?

Absolutely heading into 2007 it was clear loose lending and speculators were driving up prices but it could be argued these types are a world away from serious property investors who carefully build a portfolio over time.

House price inflation this year now for example could easily be blamed on the Government and its stamp duty holiday. The rises in recent years due to their other schemes that have pumped public money into house builders hands as well as putting a large liability into the public books. None of that has anything to do with individuals buying property with the intention to let.

Then you have the green belt and planning restrictions that cause land permissioned for houses to be worth many multiples of land that is not.

And then you have long term demographic changes with a larger number of people staying alone or in smaller sized households so pushing up demand over a very long period.

The you have the large increases in stamp duty since Gordon Brown started the wheeze which has steadily shrunk transaction volumes and thus created a supply crunch in the secondary market.

Then you have the removal of public entities from house building / provision on a grand scale.

So you can never just point at one area, especially one that has always existed and serves a market need (not everyone needs or wants to buy) and say that’s the reason house prices are high. And even if you accept that they are a part of the reason, quantifying the effect seems rather impossible.

They do however make a very handy bogeyman for the many governments that have failed to even begin to address some of the stuff highlighted above.

Edit: Oh and of course you also need to account for the multi decade run of lower and lower interest rates. That clearly allows people to service a higher debt figure for the same cost so is an obvious driver as to how prices could go higher.

[neil7908]

Because it’s a far too simplistic view of the dynamics of the housing market.

House prices fell for most of the 90’s. Did Landlords not buy houses for private rentals then?

Absolutely heading into 2007 it was clear loose lending and speculators were driving up prices but it could be argued these types are a world away from serious property investors who carefully build a portfolio over time.

House price inflation this year now for example could easily be blamed on the Government and its stamp duty holiday. The rises in recent years due to their other schemes that have pumped public money into house builders hands as well as putting a large liability into the public books. None of that has anything to do with individuals buying property with the intention to let.

Then you have the green belt and planning restrictions that cause land permissioned for houses to be worth many multiples of land that is not.

And then you have long term demographic changes with a larger number of people staying alone or in smaller sized households so pushing up demand over a very long period.

The you have the large increases in stamp duty since Gordon Brown started the wheeze which has steadily shrunk transaction volumes and thus created a supply crunch in the secondary market.

Then you have the removal of public entities from house building / provision on a grand scale.

So you can never just point at one area, especially one that has always existed and serves a market need (not everyone needs or wants to buy) and say that’s the reason house prices are high. And even if you accept that they are a part of the reason, quantifying the effect seems rather impossible.

They do however make a very handy bogeyman for the many governments that have failed to even begin to address some of the stuff highlighted above.

Edit: Oh and of course you also need to account for the multi decade run of lower and lower interest rates. That clearly allows people to service a higher debt figure for the same cost so is an obvious driver as to how prices could go higher.

No one is just blaming landlords, or suggesting they are personally responsible. Ultimately banks and the government have pushed loads of cheap credit into BTL and with pretty much guaranteed returns, more landlords are entering the market and taking what little housing stock is left. I don't blame them for doing so but towards correct that we need to acknowledge that the size of the rental market is an issue and act accordingly by making it less attractive to be a landlord.

"The number of households in the private rented sector in the UK increased from 2.8 million in 2007 to 4.5 million in 2017, an increase of 1.7 million (63%) households."

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/articles/ukprivaterentedsector/2018

That is a staggering increase in a relatively short period of history and surely makes it clear that we are heading in the wrong direction.

[Jack]

In addition, a lot of people (not all, but enough to make it a problem) that buy-to-let have no interest in putting in any effort to maintain the home and people end up paying over the odds for sub-standard accommodation (I've experienced this myself)

For me, as an owner of a flat, that is a fairly major problem.

When I moved in 16 years ago only 2 in my stair of 13 were not owner/occupiers. Now its almost reversed with only 4 owner/occupiers. I've no idea what the average for the area but I suspect its a similar story. I have a friend in town, he's now the only owner/occupier.

Getting even minor repairs done is a nightmare. The owners might be OK but you have to try and get past the letting agents first!

The folk who rent have little or no empathy for the area or thought for their neighbours. Why should they? They'll be gone in 6 months or so. Not to mention the short term lets, AirBnB etc., which can be a nightmare.

We've had enough of this *****e and we're moving out. We don't really want to but the situation is getting to the point its unbearable.

[Just_Jimmy]

It's probably easier to say that financially well off people buying 2nd and 3rd homes to make money off them makes it more difficult for those less financially well off to get on the property ladder.

I don't see how that can be disputed.but when they but their 4th they then purchase a hotel and the 4 go back to the bank right?

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[danhibees1875]

but when they but their 4th they then purchase a hotel and the 4 go back to the bank right?

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That's an additional purchase after the 4th house. :rules:

Anyway, once these landlords pick up building maintenance fees from the community chest we'll be the ones laughing.

[greenlex]

but when they but their 4th they then purchase a hotel and the 4 go back to the bank right?

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There’s money in the hotel business. Public money at that. Housing refugees, asylum seekers, homeless and the like. I know if one hotelier that added 14 rooms on his Bathgate hostelry for that reason alone. Sad really.

[lapsedhibee]

There’s money in the hotel business. Public money at that. Housing refugees, asylum seekers, homeless and the like. I know if one hotelier that added 14 rooms on his Bathgate hostelry for that reason alone. Sad really.

What in particular is sad? :dunno:

[Future17]

What in particular is sad? :dunno:

That the housing situation is such that people have to live in hotels.

[Chuck Rhoades]

If you own multiple properties the likelihood is you are probably in the top 25% or so of people in this country in terms of personal wealth.

Can people really claim to be working class when you are better off financially than 75% of the population?

What absolute bull****. Your class isn’t determined simply by how much you earn. Surely it’s about your values, social beliefs and so forth.

One pay rise could flip you up a class bracket seems!

[Chuck Rhoades]

It's probably easier to say that financially well off people buying 2nd and 3rd homes to make money off them makes it more difficult for those less financially well off to get on the property ladder.

I don't see how that can be disputed.

There’s also an argument that people have worked incredibly hard to be able to do such a thing and haven’t had anything handed to them or inherited anything.

[pollution]

That the housing situation is such that people have to live in hotels.


I catch your drift but for anyone of my age for a homeless person having to live in a hotel is heaven compared

to what happened in my teens when the Grassmarket etc was home to so many down and outs that it was shameful.

War wounded, mentally as well as physically, were everywhere some begging , drinking meths in many cases.

We as a society have made great improvements in this area and we should be proud to have done so and to continue to do so.

[Hermit Crab]

During the current climate are there still 5% mortgages on the go? Have mortgage lenders tightened and up and now require a 10%, 15%, or even a 20% deposit before you'll get a mortgage?

[Ozyhibby]

During the current climate are there still 5% mortgages on the go? Have mortgage lenders tightened and up and now require a 10%, 15%, or even a 20% deposit before you'll get a mortgage?

The beginnings of a credit crunch is underway already. Banks have withdrawn loads of products already.


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[neil7908]

The beginnings of a credit crunch is underway already. Banks have withdrawn loads of products already.


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Yup. I think 5% is largely gone now. Maybe 1 lender still doing it.

[Hermit Crab]

Yup. I think 5% is largely gone now. Maybe 1 lender still doing it.


Will these be likely to return at any point?

[danhibees1875]

I've heard of a lenders pulling them but got an email from one of the house builders whose mailing list I must be on talking about 5% deposits just the other day so there must be some out there still.

Edit: it was Taylor wimpey; https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/ways-to-buy/first-home-fund

[Ozyhibby]

I've heard of a lenders pulling them but got an email from one of the house builders whose mailing list I must be on talking about 5% deposits just the other day so there must be some out there still.

Edit: it was Taylor wimpey; https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/ways-to-buy/first-home-fund

That may be slightly different. There may be a contribution from the developer towards the deposit.
And I just clicked the link and it’s closed to new applicants.

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[RyeSloan]

I've heard of a lenders pulling them but got an email from one of the house builders whose mailing list I must be on talking about 5% deposits just the other day so there must be some out there still.

Edit: it was Taylor wimpey; https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/ways-to-buy/first-home-fund

I think we are in the crazy situation where the government is under writing mortgage debt.

Boris was mumbling something about 95% mortgages the other day as well.

The banks and builders must be laughing at the situation where governments are now taking on residential mortgage liabilities while they pocket the profits from the new build or the rest of the mortgage.

It truly is a mad world.

[danhibees1875]

That may be slightly different. There may be a contribution from the developer towards the deposit.
And I just clicked the link and it’s closed to new applicants.

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Right enough - sorry about that!

[Ozyhibby]

I think we are in the crazy situation where the government is under writing mortgage debt.

Boris was mumbling something about 95% mortgages the other day as well.

The banks and builders must be laughing at the situation where governments are now taking on residential mortgage liabilities while they pocket the profits from the new build or the rest of the mortgage.

It truly is a mad world.

I doubt builders are doing much laughing just now.


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[Scouse Hibee]

The beginnings of a credit crunch is underway already. Banks have withdrawn loads of products already.


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Tell me about it, trying to open a business account was like trying to detract water from a stone.

[Peevemor]

Is this hassle with the banks due to Brexit and a lack of confidence in the UK economy?

Interest rates here in France are still very low and the banks don't seem to have changed their lending criteria over the past 10 years. First time buyers are often eligible for 0% interest on part of their loan (I got 25k€ interest free about 10 years ago).

[Ozyhibby]

Is this hassle with the banks due to Brexit and a lack of confidence in the UK economy?

Interest rates here in France are still very low and the banks don't seem to have changed their lending criteria over the past 10 years. First time buyers are often eligible for 0% interest on part of their loan (I got 25k€ interest free about 10 years ago).

Our banks are pretty restricted in what they can lend now anyway but they are playing it safe on their own now. They think the market is going to fall so are withdrawing lending to all but the most secure borrowers. This of course will bring about the crash they think is going to happen.


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[RyeSloan]

I doubt builders are doing much laughing just now.


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I wouldn’t bet on it.

The likes of Bellway are selling almost 60% of their new homes to Help to Buy customers. They can get up to 20% of their mortgage interest free from the government.

Persimmon boss just sold shares worth over £3m, reintroduced their div and have over £800m cash on the balance sheet.

Sure they took a knock in the lockdown but are making a nice comeback thanks to the stamp duty holiday and of course the never ending government funds and interest free loans on tap to fill their coffers.

[H18 SFR]

Can somebody clarify something regarding the Scot Gov Help to Buy Scheme?

I know that it is 15% of the value to a maximum of £200,000.

If the house was valued at £400,000, would they still give you 15% of the £200,000 with you having to find the rest of the deposit or does it only cover properties with a maximum purchase price of £200,000?

[Mon Dieu4]

Can somebody clarify something regarding the Scot Gov Help to Buy Scheme?

I know that it is 15% of the value to a maximum of £200,000.

If the house was valued at £400,000, would they still give you 15% of the £200,000 with you having to find the rest of the deposit or does it only cover properties with a maximum purchase price of £200,000?

The maximum purchase price of the property has to be £200k to qualify for it so your example wouldn't work

[H18 SFR]

The maximum purchase price of the property has to be £200k to qualify for it so your example wouldn't work

Thanks for clarifying.

[Itsnoteasy]

Good luck to anyone buying in Edinburgh just now. I have bid on 2 houses recently. One I bid £50000 over home report value, it went for £64000 over. The other I bid £70000 over & never got a sniff 🙄

[speedy_gonzales]

Good luck to anyone buying in Edinburgh just now. I have bid on 2 houses recently. One I bid £50000 over home report value, it went for £64000 over. The other I bid £70000 over & never got a sniff 🙄

But what was the %age over the offers over/asking price?
A neighbour works for Graham Sibbald and he reckons it's still around 15% over the offers over for average areas, at least 20% for more "desirable" areas.
I'm planning on moving next summer and have been doing my homework, taking a note of the asking prices when they go on the market then I'll check in a few months to see what they went for.
From what I've worked out so far, I can only look at houses that are around 75% of my total budget,,,, mental!

[pollution]

But what was the %age over the offers over/asking price?
A neighbour works for Graham Sibbald and he reckons it's still around 15% over the offers over for average areas, at least 20% for more "desirable" areas.
I'm planning on moving next summer and have been doing my homework, taking a note of the asking prices when they go on the market then I'll check in a few months to see what they went for.
From what I've worked out so far, I can only look at houses that are around 75% of my total budget,,,, mental!


I am not surprised by this.

The number of new properties coming onto the Edinburgh market has slowed to a trickle in the last fortnight.

Buyers are now fighting over what is left. I'm glad I am not a buyer at the moment.

[overdrive]

I am not surprised by this.

The number of new properties coming onto the Edinburgh market has slowed to a trickle in the last fortnight.

Buyers are now fighting over what is left. I'm glad I am not a buyer at the moment.
My girlfriend’s flat went on the market last week. Hardly any interest at all so far. Only one person has requested a viewing but they pulled out after asking where the boiler was and getting an answer of “in one of the bedroom cupboards”.

[speedy_gonzales]

My girlfriend’s flat went on the market last week. Hardly any interest at all so far. Only one person has requested a viewing but they pulled out after asking where the boiler was and getting an answer of “in one of the bedroom cupboards”.

I'd read that there's been a move from flats to houses, mainly due to Covid & lockdown (folk wanting outdoor space) but in my small estate flats and houses seen to be shifting equally well.
I live not far from Drum Brae r-a-b and every property that has went up in the last year has more or less sold within a week (well, not sold, but sell price agreed).
New neighbours house went on the market a week last Monday and is as good as sold.
I'm not sure if the property market still cools down at the end of the year as it once used to?

[overdrive]

I'd read that there's been a move from flats to houses, mainly due to Covid & lockdown (folk wanting outdoor space) but in my small estate flats and houses seen to be shifting equally well.
I live not far from Drum Brae r-a-b and every property that has went up in the last year has more or less sold within a week (well, not sold, but sell price agreed).
New neighbours house went on the market a week last Monday and is as good as sold.
I'm not sure if the property market still cools down at the end of the year as it once used to?

My girlfriend’s is very near the Drumbrae too (next to Tesco).

Hopefully when my place goes up it will go quick given it is a house (assuming I can get my ex-wife to quit wanting stuff done to it before it goes up)

[speedy_gonzales]

My girlfriend’s is very near the Drumbrae too (next to Tesco).

Hopefully when my place goes up it will go quick given it is a house (assuming I can get my ex-wife to quit wanting stuff done to it before it goes up)

Is she Cala, Wimpey or Morrisons? The Cala & Wimpey tend to agree a sell price quite quickly around here. The Morrison flats are older and have a higher percentage of renters which tends to put prospective buyers off.

[overdrive]

Is she Cala, Wimpey or Morrisons? The Cala & Wimpey tend to agree a sell price quite quickly around here. The Morrison flats are older and have a higher percentage of renters which tends to put prospective buyers off.

No idea. They are the ones next to the Tesco petrol station.

[speedy_gonzales]

No idea. They are the ones next to the Tesco petrol station.

Those are the Cala ones, we're just the other side of Tesco.
Best of luck!

[Scouse Hibee]

I’ve noticed at least four houses in Caroline Terrace in recent weeks that went up for sale and all sold within a couple of weeks! There are two more currently for sale as we speak, must be a sought after location for them all to move that quick.

[Itsnoteasy]

I am not surprised by this.

The number of new properties coming onto the Edinburgh market has slowed to a trickle in the last fortnight.

Buyers are now fighting over what is left. I'm glad I am not a buyer at the moment.

There are a few popping up at fixed price.

[Itsnoteasy]

But what was the %age over the offers over/asking price?
A neighbour works for Graham Sibbald and he reckons it's still around 15% over the offers over for average areas, at least 20% for more "desirable" areas.
I'm planning on moving next summer and have been doing my homework, taking a note of the asking prices when they go on the market then I'll check in a few months to see what they went for.
From what I've worked out so far, I can only look at houses that are around 75% of my total budget,,,, mental!

£50000 one I bid 12% over
£70000 one I bid 14% over

[Itsnoteasy]

Thats me finished for the year, I think. Missed another one today I bid £45000 about 9% over home report valuation. Lawyer said there are going to be a lot of people in negative equity anytime soon.

[Billy Whizz]

I’ve noticed at least four houses in Caroline Terrace in recent weeks that went up for sale and all sold within a couple of weeks! There are two more currently for sale as we speak, must be a sought after location for them all to move that quick.

It’s a nice area

[H18 SFR]

Thats me finished for the year, I think. Missed another one today I bid £45000 about 9% over home report valuation. Lawyer said there are going to be a lot of people in negative equity anytime soon.

I was reading a couple of property articles today, prices projected to rise even higher by 2% by the end of the year.

Even if there is a correction soon I can’t see it being anywhere near a crash.

[pollution]

Thats me finished for the year, I think. Missed another one today I bid £45000 about 9% over home report valuation. Lawyer said there are going to be a lot of people in negative equity anytime soon.


Would he have said that if you had been the successful buyer ?

So frustrating for you, I can only sympathise.

[speedy_gonzales]

Thats me finished for the year, I think. Missed another one today I bid £45000 about 9% over home report valuation. Lawyer said there are going to be a lot of people in negative equity anytime soon.

I know it's a bit late for you, but like I said above I've been taking a note of the day 1 price for properties I'd consider to buy. I'm then comparing it to the sale price as soon as it's released (sometimes quicker if my neighbour who's in the industry has his finger on the pulse).
I'm looking at moving in the 2nd quarter of next year so readying my current property to realise it's maximum potential.
For the houses I've been looking at (2+ bed, bungalow, West Edinburgh area) the sale price is at least 15% over the asking.
It's really difficult to budget as my maximum offer is determined by whatever price my house achieves.
Also, I notice some Estate Agents market the house at a more honest price. For example, in this area (EH12) I've found Neilsons have an asking price that once you factor in the "buyers premium" it's quite close to the home report valuation. Warners however seem to market the properties quite a bit lower, they attract a lot more viewers and the offers over price appears to be a larger percentage.
That's just an observation I've made, whether it reflects the whole market, who knows?
When it comes to my time to buy, I'll have a maximum price in my head for any property I view, if that maximum falls short then so be it, with any potential uncertainty on the horizon, the last thing I'm willing to do is overpay by a massive margin.

[danhibees1875]

I know it's a bit late for you, but like I said above I've been taking a note of the day 1 price for properties I'd consider to buy. I'm then comparing it to the sale price as soon as it's released (sometimes quicker if my neighbour who's in the industry has his finger on the pulse).
I'm looking at moving in the 2nd quarter of next year so readying my current property to realise it's maximum potential.
For the houses I've been looking at (2+ bed, bungalow, West Edinburgh area) the sale price is at least 15% over the asking.
It's really difficult to budget as my maximum offer is determined by whatever price my house achieves.
Also, I notice some Estate Agents market the house at a more honest price. For example, in this area (EH12) I've found Neilsons have an asking price that once you factor in the "buyers premium" it's quite close to the home report valuation. Warners however seem to market the properties quite a bit lower, they attract a lot more viewers and the offers over price appears to be a larger percentage.
That's just an observation I've made, whether it reflects the whole market, who knows?
When it comes to my time to buy, I'll have a maximum price in my head for any property I view, if that maximum falls short then so be it, with any potential uncertainty on the horizon, the last thing I'm willing to do is overpay by a massive margin.

I absolutely love this level of research!

How long have you been collating the data?

[Itsnoteasy]

Would he have said that if you had been the successful buyer ?

So frustrating for you, I can only sympathise.

I think they were saying that the winning bid would be taking them into negative equity. I was not going the extra extra mile to put in a crazy offer.

[Andy Bee]

For anyone in the position of buying just now, Halifax are moving very quickly on mortgages. I applied Monday, received the letter of offer Thursday morning and I get the keys a week on Tuesday. Pretty impressive really considering the situation we're in at the moment.

[Itsnoteasy]

For anyone in the position of buying just now, Halifax are moving very quickly on mortgages. I applied Monday, received the letter of offer Thursday morning and I get the keys a week on Tuesday. Pretty impressive really considering the situation we're in at the moment.

That's impressive.

[speedy_gonzales]

I absolutely love this level of research!

How long have you been collating the data?

It's not actually too onerous. I was always planning to move around May next year, that's when my daughter finishes High School and we're looking to get an older, slightly smaller house ahead of her going to Uni.
To get there I need to do a fair bit of work in the current house so I've plenty time to keep abreast of the market.

[stantonhibby]

It's not actually too onerous. I was always planning to move around May next year, that's when my daughter finishes High School and we're looking to get an older, slightly smaller house ahead of her going to Uni.
To get there I need to do a fair bit of work in the current house so I've plenty time to keep abreast of the market.


You must be one of the few originals left J! I did notice that our old house nxt door was on the market again. Hope all well with you guys.

[speedy_gonzales]

You must be one of the few originals left J! I did notice that our old house nxt door was on the market again. Hope all well with you guys.
Ha ha, yeah, we're all good (and I trust you guys are too?).
There's still a few original neighbours left, but recently there been a fair bit turnover.
I think you're old gaff is as good as sold, there was a glut of viewers in the first week and it's now went to "under offer",,,, so let's see who I get next to upset 😀

[H18 SFR]

Purple Bricks! Why? Just, why?

Been (trying to) engaging with them re a property that caught our eye. Absolutely horrendous to deal with, they won’t answer a simple question unless I book a viewing. Ended up sticking a wee note through the door and got a call back from Purple Bricks...”you need to book a viewing to ask questions”.

Absolutely horrendous, why does anyone even contemplate using them?

[Ozyhibby]

Purple Bricks! Why? Just, why?

Been (trying to) engaging with them re a property that caught our eye. Absolutely horrendous to deal with, they won’t answer a simple question unless I book a viewing. Ended up sticking a wee note through the door and got a call back from Purple Bricks...”you need to book a viewing to ask questions”.

Absolutely horrendous, why does anyone even contemplate using them?

Same with Mov8 etc. If you want to sell property in Edinburgh, you’d be mad mad not to go to one of the local estate agents.


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[easty]

Purple Bricks! Why? Just, why?

Been (trying to) engaging with them re a property that caught our eye. Absolutely horrendous to deal with, they won’t answer a simple question unless I book a viewing. Ended up sticking a wee note through the door and got a call back from Purple Bricks...”you need to book a viewing to ask questions”.

Absolutely horrendous, why does anyone even contemplate using them?

Do they get a fee for each viewing they make? Is that why they’re like that?

[Itsnoteasy]

Same with Mov8 etc. If you want to sell property in Edinburgh, you’d be mad mad not to go to one of the local estate agents.


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What is the difference between an estate agent & a solicitor? When you buy a house you still need a lawyer so why not get the one company to do it all.

[H18 SFR]

Do they get a fee for each viewing they make? Is that why they’re like that?

Absolutely no idea, they just seem absolutely crap.

[Ozyhibby]

What is the difference between an estate agent & a solicitor? When you buy a house you still need a lawyer so why not get the one company to do it all.

Sorry, I meant solicitor.


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[pollution]

Same with Mov8 etc. If you want to sell property in Edinburgh, you’d be mad mad not to go to one of the local estate agents.


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80% of properties in Edinburgh are sold by solicitors who have their own in house conveyancing ie estate agent departments.

We always use them, it makes for a very smooth link having them all in the same place.

They are no more expensive than estate agents themselves and tend to be very professional.


IMO, Mov8 and Purple Bricks attract those who may feel intimidated by going direct to a solicitor, or who are inexperienced in selling a property.

[Itsnoteasy]

80% of properties in Edinburgh are sold by solicitors who have their own in house conveyancing ie estate agent departments.

We always use them, it makes for a very smooth link having them all in the same place.

They are no more expensive than estate agents themselves and tend to be very professional.


IMO, Mov8 and Purple Bricks attract those who may feel intimidated by going direct to a solicitor, or who are inexperienced in selling a property.

That's why I don't understand why people don't just go direct to solicitors. Are people really intimidated by going to a solicitor?

[superfurryhibby]

80% of properties in Edinburgh are sold by solicitors who have their own in house conveyancing ie estate agent departments.

We always use them, it makes for a very smooth link having them all in the same place.

They are no more expensive than estate agents themselves and tend to be very professional.


IMO, Mov8 and Purple Bricks attract those who may feel intimidated by going direct to a solicitor, or who are inexperienced in selling a property.

Purple Bricks were cheaper. I arranged my own home report, again cheaper and online solicitor, again cheaper. I don’t think it had anything to do with being intimidated by solicitors. Purely down to cost. My flat in Morningside sold in the first week on the market, for way over the valuation.

[Since90+2]

My wife used Purple Bricks when selling her flat. Had no issues at all and the girl was actually really helpful.

When we bought our home the seller used Mov8. Absolute ****ing nightmare. We used a local well known company and as soon as we said the seller is using Mov8 they pre warned us it's likely to cause issues.

[superfurryhibby]

My house hunting continues. I contacted Yopa for a copy of a home report. I get a call from a persistent Yopa guy, offering* me a valuation. No pal, not necessary, just send me the home report. Two requests later, still no home report.

Wouldn’t touch Yopa with a barge pole.

[Future17]

I'm not expressing a preference for one over the other, as they'll both have pros and cons, but one of the advantages to using a solicitor rather than an estate agent is that the service provided by solicitors is externally regulated.

[Since90+2]

I'm not expressing a preference for one over the other, as they'll both have pros and cons, but one of the advantages to using a solicitor rather than an estate agent is that the service provided by solicitors is externally regulated.

For most people buying a home is the most expensive purchase they ever make and for that reason I'm happy to pay more for the peace of mind. I'd be constantly bricking it if I used someone like Mov8 that they'd mess something up.

For an extra few thousand, which in relation to the total value of a home isn't that much, id prefer to go with a renowned and respected company.

[pollution]

For most people buying a home is the most expensive purchase they ever make and for that reason I'm happy to pay more for the peace of mind. I'd be constantly bricking it if I used someone like Mov8 that they'd mess something up.

For an extra few thousand, which in relation to the total value of a home isn't that much, id prefer to go with a renowned and respected company.


You probably will not spend thousands more via a solicitor in Edinburgh, that used to be the case years ago.

I sold my flat three years ago and the solicitor charged exactly the same as an estate agent quoted: 0.8% of the sold price.

Other charges are obligatory by eg searches to make sure you are the owner etc etc .

30 years ago I sold a property and I was charged 1.25% of the sold price. Competition is great !

[Future17]

For most people buying a home is the most expensive purchase they ever make and for that reason I'm happy to pay more for the peace of mind. I'd be constantly bricking it if I used someone like Mov8 that they'd mess something up.

For an extra few thousand, which in relation to the total value of a home isn't that much, id prefer to go with a renowned and respected company.

But a renowned and respected estate agency, or a renowned and respected firm of solicitors?