Perspective

[Unseen work]

I’ve seen a lot of negative threads and posts as a result of today’s game, calling us pathetic etc and also criticising the manager and player for how we’re playing. I’m trying to provide a bit of perspective;


We’re currently sitting 2nd in the league ahead of an international break, getting 13 points out of a total of 18. Were still to concede from open play.


Today we played an Aberdeen team that’s consistently been the 2nd or 3rd best team in the country with a manager who has been there for 7 years. He has built a very good squad and the board allows him to invest heavily in players.


We lost today as a result of our winger trying to be to clever and then being too slow on the ball in his own penalty box, conceding a very cheap pen.


We were without our 2 big summer signings in Nisbet and Gogic. A lot of the criticism seems to be aimed at why Ross hasn’t addressed the middle of the park, he clearly has but adding Gogic who has made an unbelievable difference and also trying to recruit McCrorie, he knows it’s our weakness.


Prior to the penalty, in the opening 30 minutes is probably the best Iv seen us this season. We played the ball quickly, along the deck and created numerous chances/great opportunities.


Boyle should score when Lewis spilled it
Boyle’s shot from Wrights switch off play
Wright and Doig both drilled crosses across the 6 yard box with no takers
Doig shot from outside the box
Doidge shot from Allan’s dummy


After the goal Aberdeen were always going to shut up shop and make it hard for us to break them down, but even with that Wright had a great chance from McGinn’s perfect through ball but took the wrong option.


My criticism of the players is we use Marciano far too much as a safety pass, allowing Aberdeen to step up 15-20 yards. We also play too many lofted long balls/crosses which are so easy to deal with and is bread and butter for Aberdeen.


I must admit last season up until Christmas I was a big fan of Hallberg and was a bit confused at his lack of game time since Ross came in, but today he was really poor and offered absolutely nothing. Maybe harsh to expect someone to walk in for their first start and months and dominate the game but I expect a lot more. Him and Newell try be physical and put themselves about, but the difference between them and Ferguson and McCrorie is they have a real aggression about them to win the battle. I thought McCrorie was brilliant today and whilst I’m gutted we never got him, I’m happy that that’s the type of guy Ross is targeting, who we get now instead will be interesting. Tshibola is another I’d have liked to have seen us sign.


Ross tried to get us back in the team by putting all of our attacking options on, but imo the system wasn’t right for them to flourish and it seemed more of a hope something would happen with them all on. None of the attacking players seemed to beat or drive at the defence.


I’m also fed up of seeing people speak about our style of play. Ross can tell us to play it along the deck fast all he wants but it comes down to the players and how well they play and the decisions they make. Boyle and Allan have been very poor this season and they’re our two main threats, once their form is back so will the good football. Add Murphy and Nisbet into the team and there is plenty ability. How many times have we said in the past we need to learn to win ugly and stop conceding silly goals, so far we’ve done that yet people still moan.


We have a long way to improve performance wise and we need a couple more players of real quality in, but I’m delighted with the job Ross is doing and he has my full support. Give him time and a couple of windows and we will go from strength to strength, I have no doubt about it.


His signings so far have been exactly what I’d have been hoping for and I think he is going to make us a consistent top 4 team.

Lets relax over the next 2 weeks, add a couple of new players and kick on.

[houstonhibbee]

:top marks[QUOTE=Unseen work;6287540]

I’ve seen a lot of negative threads and posts as a result of today’s game, calling us pathetic etc and also criticising the manager and player for how we’re playing. I’m trying to provide a bit of perspective;


We’re currently sitting 2nd in the league ahead of an international break, getting 13 points out of a total of 18. Were still to concede from open play.


Today we played an Aberdeen team that’s consistently been the 2nd or 3rd best team in the country with a manager who has been there for 7 years. He has built a very good squad and the board allows him to invest heavily in players.


We lost today as a result of our winger trying to be to clever and then being too slow on the ball in his own penalty box, conceding a very cheap pen.


We were without our 2 big summer signings in Nisbet and Gogic. A lot of the criticism seems to be aimed at why Ross hasn’t addressed the middle of the park, he clearly has but adding Gogic who has made an unbelievable difference and also trying to recruit McCrorie, he knows it’s our weakness.


Prior to the penalty, in the opening 30 minutes is probably the best Iv seen us this season. We played the ball quickly, along the deck and created numerous chances/great opportunities.


Boyle should score when Lewis spilled it
Boyle’s shot from Wrights switch off play
Wright and Doig both drilled crosses across the 6 yard box with no takers
Doig shot from outside the box
Doidge shot from Allan’s dummy


After the goal Aberdeen were always going to shut up shop and make it hard for us to break them down, but even with that Wright had a great chance from McGinn’s perfect through ball but took the wrong option.


My criticism of the players is we use Marciano far too much as a safety pass, allowing Aberdeen to step up 15-20 yards. We also play too many lofted long balls/crosses which are so easy to deal with and is bread and butter for Aberdeen.


I must admit last season up until Christmas I was a big fan of Hallberg and was a bit confused at his lack of game time since Ross came in, but today he was really poor and offered absolutely nothing. Maybe harsh to expect someone to walk in for their first start and months and dominate the game but I expect a lot more. Him and Newell try be physical and put themselves about, but the difference between them and Ferguson and McCrorie is they have a real aggression about them to win the battle. I thought McCrorie was brilliant today and whilst I’m gutted we never got him, I’m happy that that’s the type of guy Ross is targeting, who we get now instead will be interesting. Tshibola is another I’d have liked to have seen us sign.


Ross tried to get us back in the team by putting all of our attacking options on, but imo the system wasn’t right for them to flourish and it seemed more of a hope something would happen with them all on. None of the attacking players seemed to beat or drive at the defence.


I’m also fed up of seeing people speak about our style of play. Ross can tell us to play it along the deck fast all he wants but it comes down to the players and how well they play and the decisions they make. Boyle and Allan have been very poor this season and they’re our two main threats, once their form is back so will the good football. Add Murphy and Nisbet into the team and there is plenty ability. How many times have we said in the past we need to learn to win ugly and stop conceding silly goals, so far we’ve done that yet people still moan.


We have a long way to improve performance wise and we need a couple more players of real quality in, but I’m delighted with the job Ross is doing and he has my full support. Give him time and a couple of windows and we will go from strength to strength, I have no doubt about it.


His signings so far have been exactly what I’d have been hoping for and I think he is going to make us a consistent top 4 team.

Lets relax over the next 2 weeks, add a couple of new players and kick on.



:top marks

[tonyrougier123]

It’s the movement in the transfer window that worries me,we are releasing so many players,surely we should be bringing in quality and not just whoever rangers have up for loan/release.i
Hopefully Mathie has few aces up his sleeve over next two weeks.

Formations and defence have been fine,playing so well at the back just now,limiting teams chances on goal.if the midfield was as good we would still be going toe toe with the rangers.

Clearly we should watch what we spend, but Mathie said as much himself,we have shedded so much money from the wage bill.

[CMurdoch]

I must admit last season up until Christmas I was a big fan of Hallberg and was a bit confused at his lack of game time since Ross came in, but today he was really poor and offered absolutely nothing. Maybe harsh to expect someone to walk in for their first start and months and dominate the game but I expect a lot more. Him and Newell try be physical and put themselves about, but the difference between them and Ferguson and McCrorie is they have a real aggression about them to win the battle.


I reckon the difference is they are much better players who will eventually leave Aberdeen for £5 million and will play international football whereas Hallberg and Newell will move on for free. IMO we would not have lost today if we had managed to sign McCrorie. Small margins.
P.S. I like Newell and believe Scott Allan is the elephant in the room.

[houstonhibbee]

I reckon the difference is they are much better players who will eventually leave Aberdeen for £5 million and will play international football whereas Hallberg and Newell will move on for free. IMO we would not have lost today if we had managed to sign McCrorie. Small margins.
P.S. I like Newell and believe Scott Allan is the elephant in the room.

i thought Newell was a big part of our problem today. Far too pedestrian.
at least Scotty provided a spark while he was on but didn’t get much support

[Since452]

Missing Nisbet and Gogic showed today against a team with a bigger budget. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. It's s long season ahead.

[BlackSheep]

Finally some sense... I wish I could say it’s hard to believe how quickly this place turns after a loss but it’s not, our fan base is as bipolar as it gets!

I reckon Nisbet in there today would’ve been the difference... the few great balls across the goal he would have taken at least 1 of those chances.

The break comes at a good time for us, time to rest, regroup and perhaps add to the squad.

Onwards and upwards.

[weecounty hibby]

Great post and one that I agree with almost 100%. Ross knows what needs to be changed and I'm sure he will change it.

[JimBHibees]

I think we are a wee bit unlucky in terms of the transfer window as would assume there are young players in EPL who are of decent quality who will be going out on loan however with window not closing until early October that will happen nearer that time. We do need to be patient though which is always an unfamiliar trait with supporters. International break has come at a good time to regroup and allow availability of players like Nisbet and Gogic, get Murphy integrated into squad and hopefully add to it.

[Brightside]

We were fine until the penalty. Aberdeen are very hard to breakdown once they get in front. The closed us down quickly and defended from the front. Hence why we struggled to create clear chances in the 2nd half. But we created plenty before then. Too many people forget the positive parts of a game when we lose. It’s was a good open game of football until the pen.

[BlackSheep]

Agree with that Underscore... and Boyle was u lucky with the penalty as well. He could have emptied it earlier but he didn’t expect someone to nip in mid clearance. Anyone who has played football has either done this or had it done to them at some point, unfortunately it was in the box.

[Nitten]

Agree totally with Perspective viewpoint, difference yesterday was McRorie and Ferguson’s, physical dominance, we still fashioned a few good chances but the fine margins mentioned previously were there for all to see.
JR has clearly identified our weaknesses but I have mentioned previously we cannot rely on Gogic for a whole season, we really need to strengthen this vital area of the pitch. So frustrating to see McRorie playing so well for them, he is clearly on that evidence a real asset. Going fwd. I hope we are still actively pursuing another similar type of player....easier said than done but if we are to maintain the excellent start to the season this is a priority.
Give JR at least another 2 transfer windows and then see where we are relative to Aberdeen this is the least the manager deserves.

[G15 Hibs]

Finally some sense... I wish I could say it’s hard to believe how quickly this place turns after a loss but it’s not, our fan base is as bipolar as it gets!



No kidding!

1) 3 wins in a row doesn't mean Champions League qualification
2) Losing 1-0 to Aberdeen isn't the end of the world

Surely folk have been watching Hibs long enough to know this and not lose their **** when either happens? Seems not.

[Spike Mandela]

Perspective.........we haven’t finished third in the Premier league for 20 years.

Aberdeen been top three in 5 of the last 7 seasons, finishing 4th in the other two seasons.

[MrRobot]

it’s maybe worth pointing out that our preparation was cut short with having to cancel a training session and losing gogic.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

We were fine until the penalty. Aberdeen are very hard to breakdown once they get in front. The closed us down quickly and defended from the front. Hence why we struggled to create clear chances in the 2nd half. But we created plenty before then. Too many people forget the positive parts of a game when we lose. It’s was a good open game of football until the pen.

What was good about it up until the penalty?

[Brightside]

What was good about it up until the penalty?

Maybe watch it again. It was a decent game of football until the penalty. One of the best games this season.... and Im aware most games have been poor. Even after the Pen tactically Aberdeen got it perfect. We couldnt break them down and get back in the game. But we had plenty chances in the first half.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Maybe watch it again. It was a decent game of football until the penalty. One of the best games this season.... and Im aware most games have been poor. Even after the Pen tactically Aberdeen got it perfect. We couldnt break them down and get back in the game. But we had plenty chances in the first half.

I don't think I'll subject myself to that again thanks.

[hibee-boys]

I was enjoying the game until the penalty, both sides playing half decent football, certainly more enjoyable to watch than the last couple of games and there was nothing in it. We just had to score first but didn't due to lack of composure in front of goal. Didn't see any big gulf between the sides in that opening period. An upgrade in CM and we should be set for a good year.

[CapitalGreen]

We were fine until the penalty. Aberdeen are very hard to breakdown once they get in front. The closed us down quickly and defended from the front. Hence why we struggled to create clear chances in the 2nd half. But we created plenty before then. Too many people forget the positive parts of a game when we lose. It’s was a good open game of football until the pen.

It’s not just Aberdeen we are struggling to break down though. 1 goal from open play in 4.5 games is concerning.

[MurrayfieldHibs]

Slightly off topic but just trying to help lift the mood.

Do you think this would be able to carry Nade????
23936

Pioneering Spirit has an overall length of 382m, breadth of 124m, and a depth of 30m.
It has a topsides lift capacity of 48,000t, jacket lift capacity of 25,000t, and pipe cargo carrying capacity of 27,000t.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Slightly off topic but just trying to help lift the mood.

Do you think this would be able to carry Nade????
23936

Pioneering Spirit has an overall length of 382m, breadth of 124m, and a depth of 30m.
It has a topsides lift capacity of 48,000t, jacket lift capacity of 25,000t, and pipe cargo carrying capacity of 27,000t.

Slightly? ☺

[Jones28]

What was good about it up until the penalty?

We created a few opportunities and played good football until that point. It was an open game where both teams had chances.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Maybe I'm expecting too much, happy enough with the points total but, Livvy game apart it's been pretty grim viewing.

[lord bunberry]

We created a few opportunities and played good football until that point. It was an open game where both teams had chances.
I agree, but the worst thing you can do is give Aberdeen an easy lead. They’re masters at shutting up shop and killing the game.

[jacomo]

I reckon the difference is they are much better players who will eventually leave Aberdeen for £5 million and will play international football whereas Hallberg and Newell will move on for free. IMO we would not have lost today if we had managed to sign McCrorie. Small margins.
P.S. I like Newell and believe Scott Allan is the elephant in the room.


Agree with this. McCrorie is a big miss, this is where criticism should be directed if any is due. I do wonder if the reason we wouldn’t countenance a loan is that we were already working on the Jamie Murphy deal which is also a loan followed by permanent transfer.

Anyhow, much needed perspective here. Some of the over reaction on here yesterday was quite frankly hysterical.

[1620]

I agree, but the worst thing you can do is give Aberdeen an easy lead. They’re masters at shutting up shop and killing the game.

McInnes said it himself yesterday in his post match interview “we have a way of playing that stops the opposition from attacking successfully and we hope to nick a goal” That is exactly what they did - not good to watch - but they are good at it.
Hibs struggled badly in midfield as others have already pointed out but if you also take account no Saturday training, no Gogic and Nisbet, no chance for Murphy to get to know the others on the pitch, then losing the game to a really unfortunate penalty was not as bad a result as some have made out.

[lord bunberry]

McInnes said it himself yesterday in his post match interview “we have a way of playing that stops the opposition from attacking successfully and we hope to nick a goal” That is exactly what they did - not good to watch - but they are good at it.
Hibs struggled badly in midfield as others have already pointed out but if you also take account no Saturday training, no Gogic and Nisbet, no chance for Murphy to get to know the others on the pitch, then losing the game to a really unfortunate penalty was not as bad a result as some have made out.
It wasn’t. It was a moment of madness from Boyle that cost us.

[Keith_M]

We'll have a better idea of where we are as a side after the first full round of games (Oct 17th, I think).

I'd imagine we'll be in about 4th or 5th place by then, though you never know

[Henderson2Del]

Perspective could also be that Aberdeen maintain a level year or year and generally keep a squad.
Since the end of our first season back we have done the opposite, no building it that season and a continued change of squad. Out recruiting is questionable

[147lothian]

A very sensible OP, :top marks

[Jim44]

A very sensible post, :top marks

Which one? There’s 30 posts here.

[1620]

E
It wasn’t. It was a moment of madness from Boyle that cost us.

I accept Boyle made a mistake- not his only one of the day. He actually had the ball outside the penalty area and took it back into the box presumably to create more space to clear it and just did not see the guy coming up his blindside. He didn’t set out to deliberately kick the guy was my point.

[JohnM1875]

Which one? There’s 30 posts here.

Think he means mine. And by that I mean this one, as its the only one I've made on this thread.

[Wilson]

We'll have a better idea of where we are as a side after the first full round of games (Oct 17th, I think).

I'd imagine we'll be in about 4th or 5th place by then, though you never know

I don't think we'll take anything of Rangers or Celtic so a win against St. Mirren would help. In that time Ross County have to play Celtic and Aberdeen so I think 4th is a safe bet after the first round of fixtures.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Good OP, and indeed perspective is required. As was said last night, losing to Aberdeen is all too common for us, and it's nothing like losing to Alloa and Dumbarton in the Championship. We are in much better shape than was the case just a few seasons ago. That said, there are concerns which need addressing, namely our lack of creativity and energy in midfield. I'm not panicking at this stage; defensively we look very good, and we did create some opportunities, though we wasted them. What we're crying out for if an all action central midfielder of the John McGinn type, who will enable us to set the tempo in games, but they aren't easy to find on our budget.

Anyway, let's see if we can do something in the transfer market to improve the midfield.