Hecky’s legacy

[RIP]

Was that he wasn’t a very good coach. Nor do I suspect he was a motivator.

The only sympathy we should have had for him was having to create a team out of the mixed bag and signings recruited by Graeme Mathie and his team in that close season. Some worked, other didn’t.


How many Hibs fans were still under the illusion that Hibs still had a manager who was responsible for recruitment. In fact the last manager was Terry Butcher and since then Stubbs, Lennon, Heckingbottom and Ross have all been recruited as Head Coaches.

When the flak was coming thick and fast on signings last season, the man responsible stayed silent. So it’s interesting to hear him speak out candidly about the signings he made last summer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/im-fairly-sure-there-will-be-more-movement-hibs-chief-hints-further-transfer-business-2954527%3Famp

[SMAXXA]

He doesn’t make the signings without the manager giving agreement so not sure where your going with this?

[Since452]

I liked Hecky as a guy. Just seemed a decent bloke and I wanted him to succeed but I couldn't get motivated by him as a fan at all. Had a wee spark against Celtic at ER when he got sent to the stand (I think) but I just don't think he has the right aura about him for the top job.

[HappyAsHellas]

When he said he's talking with JR at the present I would take that to mean that the input of the manager is sought after before any new signing although I didn't read the whole article because they have more ads than this place. Are you saying he makes all decisions on his own as a sporting dictator?

[Vault Boy]

He doesn’t make the signings without the manager giving agreement so not sure where your going with this?

Yeah if you listen to the podcast he talks about this idea that the recruitment staff just go and make signings, as if he could have told Neil Lennon who to sign... They scout players, create shortlists and look for players with particular attributes, as directed by the HC. No signing is made without the HC's sign off.

[WhileTheChief..]

EEN reporting on the recent Longbangers podcast basically.

[Hibernia&Alba]

He was a bad appointment; out of his depth. Seemed a nice guy, but not right for Hibs. A very forgettable period.

[Iain G]

Was that he wasn’t a very good coach. Nor do I suspect he was a motivator.

The only sympathy we should have had for him was having to create a team out of the mixed bag and signings recruited by Graeme Mathie and his team in that close season. Some worked, other didn’t.


How many Hibs fans were still under the illusion that Hibs still had a manager who was responsible for recruitment. In fact the last manager was Terry Butcher and since then Stubbs, Lennon, Heckingbottom and Ross have all been recruited as Head Coaches.

When the flak was coming thick and fast on signings last season, the man responsible stayed silent. So it’s interesting to hear him speak out candidly about the signings he made last summer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/im-fairly-sure-there-will-be-more-movement-hibs-chief-hints-further-transfer-business-2954527%3Famp

You should listen to the podcast, which will put your right on the errors made in this post. :agree:

[chrisski33]

time to forget heckingbottom

[Smartie]

I'm a bit neutral about Heckingbottom. Not the worst we've had, not the best.

He didn't really get that sometimes you need to be a bit more aggressive in forcing games and trying to win. 451 every week will get you so far, but not far enough.

The greatest strengths and weaknesses of his time with us were, in truth, probably little to do with him if he doesn't do much of the recruitment. His "end of the season" was very decent - mostly due to the impact Omeonga and McNulty had on a squad that was hopelessly imbalanced and going nowhere. there weren't many signs of tactical problems there, and he had the odd very good result such as the win at Tynecastle.

His "start to the next season" was abysmal results-wise, but in truth we dominated a lot of those games without picking up the result. We weren't playing all that much worse than we are now, but sharpness in front of goal and a stout defence sees us top of the league. His main problem was being without Boyle, leaving us badly short of pace and a man to get you up the park when you've been under the cosh. Vela was a brutal signing who he was loyal to, but seemingly he was "on our radar" under Lennon. The signing of Doidge looks inspired, Newell has been decent in spells and Jackson was a good player for us.

Who knows where we might have ended up if he'd got a chance with Boyle fit. His line-ups did frustrate me though. Whenever Jack Ross picks a team , you understand what he's trying to do, even if it doesn't come off. The 1 up front every week when it was leaking points left, right and centre was infuriating.

He was a likeable enough fellow and seemingly had the players onside. His sacking was hard to argue with though, especially as Ross was free around that time, and I'm more than happy with who we have now, even if Ross isn't perfect himself.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Our first win at tynecastle for six years. That’s it, my one positive recollection of heckingbottom reign.

[Pretty Boy]

I don't think many teams have a system in place now that doesn't involve the director of football or equivalent, recruitment and head coach trinity.

It's a system that makes perfect sense and we have seen it both work well and work badly, the same as if any individual was solely responsible for signings really.

[The Modfather]

I'm a bit neutral about Heckingbottom. Not the worst we've had, not the best.

He didn't really get that sometimes you need to be a bit more aggressive in forcing games and trying to win. 451 every week will get you so far, but not far enough.

The greatest strengths and weaknesses of his time with us were, in truth, probably little to do with him if he doesn't do much of the recruitment. His "end of the season" was very decent - mostly due to the impact Omeonga and McNulty had on a squad that was hopelessly imbalanced and going nowhere. there weren't many signs of tactical problems there, and he had the odd very good result such as the win at Tynecastle.

His "start to the next season" was abysmal results-wise, but in truth we dominated a lot of those games without picking up the result. We weren't playing all that much worse than we are now, but sharpness in front of goal and a stout defence sees us top of the league. His main problem was being without Boyle, leaving us badly short of pace and a man to get you up the park when you've been under the cosh. Vela was a brutal signing who he was loyal to, but seemingly he was "on our radar" under Lennon. The signing of Doidge looks inspired, Newell has been decent in spells and Jackson was a good player for us.

Who knows where we might have ended up if he'd got a chance with Boyle fit. His line-ups did frustrate me though. Whenever Jack Ross picks a team , you understand what he's trying to do, even if it doesn't come off. The 1 up front every week when it was leaking points left, right and centre was infuriating.

He was a likeable enough fellow and seemingly had the players onside. His sacking was hard to argue with though, especially as Ross was free around that time, and I'm more than happy with who we have now, even if Ross isn't perfect himself.

Good post. He improved us when he came in, although we were still a poor imbalanced team, and won at Tynecastle. Then looked out of his depth the next season.

Don’t have any ill will towards him but he’ll be a quiz question in years to come, who was the Hibs manager after Lennon.

[Speedway]

PH's appointment and the fact that it was a toss up between him and Appleton for the job, was the first time I had cause to doubt LD's judgement.

Heckingbottom looked like an uninspired boring sod from the very first interview.

I started unconvinced and got worse as the signings were revealed.

Sir Tommy Farmer's tweet to LD at the end of Heckingbottom's tenure summed it all up.

I'm sure he's a lovely man but I'm delighted he's gone.

[Hibernian Verse]

Marvin Bartley said Hecky was one of the best coaches he's worked under.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[Danderhall Hibs]

Is his legacy Doidge and Newell?

[DetroitHibs]

When he was punted, Eddie May played with a front two the game right after and it changed everything. He was a piss poor manager IMO.

[Bronson]

Marvin Bartley said Hecky was one of the best coaches he's worked under.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

A few have said similar. I think he’s clearly a very good coach, but that’s a much different role to being a manager and I don’t think he’s cut out for management. He’s definitely a very knowledgable guy, will do well in his role at sheff utd i would think.

[Pretty Boy]

Marvin Bartley said Hecky was one of the best coaches he's worked under.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

I'm sure he is an excellent coach.

Hibs players said similar about Calderwood and the jobs he has had as a coach suggests there is truth in it. That doesn't always translate to being a good manager though. Alex Ferguson had nothing but praise for guys like Archie Know, Mike Phelan, Carlos Quieroz and Brian Kidd and their coaching ability. Their managerial records are patchy at best though. It's two very different skill sets.

[Onceinawhile]

I'm sure he is an excellent coach.

Hibs players said similar about Calderwood and the jobs he has had as a coach suggests there is truth in it. That doesn't always translate to being a good manager though. Alex Ferguson had nothing but praise for guys like Archie Know, Mike Phelan, Carlos Quieroz and Brian Kidd and their coaching ability. Their managerial records are patchy at best though. It's two very different skill sets.

Ian cathro is a very highly rated coach.

Couldn't manage for toffee though.

[RIP]

You should listen to the podcast, which will put your right on the errors made in this post. :agree:

Iain I listened to the podcast before posting.

My point about GM was that at no point last year when PH was getting pelters for summer recruitment did he pipe up about the process at Hibs where they source players and run them past the Head Coach. Then there’s trials where the HC puts the player through their paces.

That’s been the process since Stubbsy. In January the first JR knew about two of the signings was when me met them in training.

Still had the power to push back if he didn’t fancy the players.

The confused answers of fans on this topic proves that it’s still not clear to some how recruitment is managed at Hibs

[Brightside]

Players loved Hecky. Results just didnt come. Doidge had about 20 chances when Hecky was here....if they go in suddenly everyone had a different view. Hecky will do very well in football.

[Eyrie]

Players loved Hecky. Results just didnt come. Doidge had about 20 chances when Hecky was here....if they go in suddenly everyone had a different view. Hecky will do very well in football.

If he does well then it will be as a coach and not as a manager.

[G B Young]

Players loved Hecky. Results just didnt come. Doidge had about 20 chances when Hecky was here....if they go in suddenly everyone had a different view. Hecky will do very well in football.

Yep, several of his signings who had by and large been written off as duds seemed to improve under Jack Ross. I think in hindsight he had a decent enough eye for a player but as you say he didn't get the results (barring an excellent spell of league form with Lennon's players after he succeeded him).

[calumhibee1]

Players loved Hecky. Results just didnt come. Doidge had about 20 chances when Hecky was here....if they go in suddenly everyone had a different view. Hecky will do very well in football.

Yup.

He ultimately wasn’t good enough but between not having Boyle and having our 18 goals in 3 quarters of a season striker missing sitter after sitter when he just started banging them in after he left didn’t help him.

Not good enough but also pretty unlucky. Whilst not playing great I left plenty games at the time under him wondering how we didn’t win - quite often because Doidge had missed chances galore which he then started putting away.

[Is It On....]

Is his legacy Doidge and Newell?

Not knowing how to get the best out of them [Doidge upfront on his own, Newall wide right).. absolute his legacy.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yup.

He ultimately wasn’t good enough but between not having Boyle and having our 18 goals in 3 quarters of a season striker missing sitter after sitter when he just started banging them in after he left didn’t help him.

Not good enough but also pretty unlucky. Whilst not playing great I left plenty games at the time under him wondering how we didn’t win - quite often because Doidge had missed chances galore which he then started putting away.

I thought all teams had injuries, and you were not allowed to use that as an excuse?

Did Lennon's side not have any missed chances in games he was in charge of?

[erin go bragh]

Good coach ,****ttt manager .

[calumhibee1]

I thought all teams had injuries, and you were not allowed to use that as an excuse?

Did Lennon's side not have any missed chances in games he was in charge of?

Where did I use it as an excuse? I quite clearly said his spell in charge wasn’t good enough. If I was looking for an excuse I would have said he was good enough but was hampered by injuries or something along those lines.

Would he have done better without Boyle being injured? Possibly. Would he have done better if Doidge wasn’t missing chance after chance every game? Definitely.

Would Lennon have done better if he didn’t have any injuries? Possibly.

Were they both not performing well enough when they left/were sacked. Absolutely.

Having injuries isn’t an excuse when you’re performing horrifically at a club our size in Scottish football terms.

[blackpoolhibs]

Where did I use it as an excuse? I quite clearly said his spell in charge wasn’t good enough. If I was looking for an excuse I would have said he was good enough but was hampered by injuries or something along those lines.

Would he have done better without Boyle being injured? Possibly. Would he have done better if Doidge wasn’t missing chance after chance every game? Definitely.

Would Lennon have done better if he didn’t have any injuries? Possibly.

Were they both not performing well enough when they left/were sacked. Absolutely.

Having injuries isn’t an excuse when you’re performing horrifically at a club our size in Scottish football terms.
He ultimately wasn’t good enough but

[calumhibee1]

He ultimately wasn’t good enough but

He wasn’t good enough as I said, no excuses. No justification for how poor we were.

Likewise with Lennon.

[BILLYHIBS]

PH's appointment and the fact that it was a toss up between him and Appleton for the job, was the first time I had cause to doubt LD's judgement.

Heckingbottom looked like an uninspired boring sod from the very first interview.

I started unconvinced and got worse as the signings were revealed.

Sir Tommy Farmer's tweet to LD at the end of Heckingbottom's tenure summed it all up.

I'm sure he's a lovely man but I'm delighted he's gone.

:agree:

STF succinctly sums it up in the last sentence

:thumbsup:

[The 90+2]

Sounds like a decent name for a horse tbh.

[The 90+2]

:agree:

STF succinctly sums it up in the last sentence

:thumbsup:

Speedway is Sir Tom? 🤔

[IWasThere2016]

Highly regarded coach. Not a manager.

[Hibee Mac]

All I remember is watching game after game after game thinking when is this guy getting the sack?

We honestly could have been in the same position as Hearts right now if we had stuck with that imposter much longer.

I understand some folk like him as a guy but for what it's worth as a football manager if he'd been allowed to continue he was well on track to being the next Butcher. Absolutely honking manager and I was beyond relieved when we finally binned him.

[The Spaceman]

A former manager who I would genuinely wish all the best for in whatever he does, even if it was not great for us. Tried his best and a good guy, we just weren’t the right fit.

[RIP]

If he does well then it will be as a coach and not as a manager.

But Paul was never the manager at Hibs

He was only the Head Coach. Alan, Neil and Jack have been Hibs Head Coach and they all achieved more in that role?

[BILLYHIBS]

Speedway is Sir Tom? 🤔

I took it to be a tweet exchanged between STF and LD but the sentiment still stands 😃

[The 90+2]

I took it to be a tweet exchanged between STF and LD but the sentiment still stands 😃

Ahh second last sentence 😂 get you now, I only read the last you quoted me being ignorant 😁

[BILLYHIBS]

Ahh second last sentence 😂 get you now, I only read the last you quoted me being ignorant 😁

👍🏿

[RIP]

I don't think many teams have a system in place now that doesn't involve the director of football or equivalent, recruitment and head coach trinity.

It's a system that makes perfect sense and we have seen it both work well and work badly, the same as if any individual was solely responsible for signings really.

The phrase trinity is the best description of the modern system that Hibs adopted in 2014. That was six years and four Head Coaches ago.

Pretty Boy, there are so many genuine posts on this thread still claiming that Hecky was a crap manager but a good coach.

If I was recruited as a Head Coach and everybody thought I was a great coach, surely I’d have met the job requirements?

😃

[The 90+2]

A great coach who produced zero and legacy is scouting Doidge? How does that work?

[Craig_in_Prague]

Put me off watching the club I love.

[BILLYHIBS]

A great coach who produced zero and legacy is scouting Doidge? How does that work?

Was Doidge not already on the radar of our brilliant Scouting System?

[WhileTheChief..]

^^Agreed.

Took all the enthusiasm out of ER.

Was absolutely honking football and it was clear from his first interview that he wouldn’t be around for long.

As bad as Calderwood and will be just as easily forgotten about.

[jacomo]

Why is this thread titled Hecky’s legacy when the discussion is about our recruitment strategy? Ultimately PH had a short tenure at the club and there isn’t much of a legacy to speak of.

Also, congrats to Matty F who’s doing a fine job, but if the EEN is now reduced to transcribing interviews from a fan podcast they might as well call it a day. What on Earth are they journalists doing all day?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Not knowing how to get the best out of them [Doidge upfront on his own, Newall wide right).. absolute his legacy.

Makes you wonder how good Vela might’ve been if the formation had been right.

[calumhibee1]

Makes you wonder how good Vela might’ve been if the formation had been right.

I noticed he’s only managed 3 appearances since leaving Hibs..

[RIP]

Makes you wonder how good Vela might’ve been if the formation had been right.

Vela was a Lennon pick foisted upon Hecky. Josh was a favourite of Neils from their time together at Bolton.

[SaulGoodman]

Iain I listened to the podcast before posting.

My point about GM was that at no point last year when PH was getting pelters for summer recruitment did he pipe up about the process at Hibs where they source players and run them past the Head Coach. Then there’s trials where the HC puts the player through their paces.

That’s been the process since Stubbsy. In January the first JR knew about two of the signings was when me met them in training.

Still had the power to push back if he didn’t fancy the players.

The confused answers of fans on this topic proves that it’s still not clear to some how recruitment is managed at Hibs

Source?

[matty_f]

Iain I listened to the podcast before posting.

My point about GM was that at no point last year when PH was getting pelters for summer recruitment did he pipe up about the process at Hibs where they source players and run them past the Head Coach. Then there’s trials where the HC puts the player through their paces.

That’s been the process since Stubbsy. In January the first JR knew about two of the signings was when me met them in training.

Still had the power to push back if he didn’t fancy the players.

The confused answers of fans on this topic proves that it’s still not clear to some how recruitment is managed at Hibs

I’m not sure that’s true, and I’m not sure how you can take what you’ve taken from what Graeme said on the podcast?

The Daily Record ran a feature on Hibs’ recruitment, and the process has been documented on several occasions. Graeme spoke at the AGM (IIRC) about recruitment (in fact, I’m sure Scotty Leither from here asked a very direct question about the quality of some of the signings, which Graeme answered as candidly as he did any question we put to him).

I think the notion that two loan signings, opportunistic loan signings at that, are indicative of how transfers are done generally is flawed when taken in context of how the process was explained. What about Ambrose/Commons/Holt? Players we needed that were available and we got them.

I think it’s disrespectful (as is the thread, tbf) to Heckingbottom to suggest that he was lumbered with Vela, as if he had no knowledge of the player or his qualities ahead of us signing, and the idea that he’d take the players regardless of whether or not he wanted him is absurd and totally out of line with what Graeme explained.

[Since452]

Brought some much needed tranquility after the Lennon shambles and the players responded initially. Became apparent that he wasn't the right man once the dust had settled. No ill feelings towards him. Thank him for the win at Tynie.

[WhileTheChief..]

Heckingbottom gets an easy time of it on here in comparison to Lennon.

The man was utterly useless.

[Heisenberg]

Heckingbottom gets an easy time of it on here in comparison to Lennon.

The man was utterly useless.

While I’m no massive Lennon fan the easy time Heckingbottom gets from some in comparison is quite strange. As you say, he was useless. I was all for giving him a chance, through our stumbling league cup campaign I defended him strongly, Ibrox ended it for me though. He quite obviously couldn’t get anything out of the squad of players at his disposal.

[Brightside]

Heckingbottom gets an easy time of it on here in comparison to Lennon.

The man was utterly useless.

An easy time? Have you read this thread? If he was utterly useless then the players must know nothing about football either. If you didn’t like the guy that’s up to you but he was far from useless.

[hibbie02]

I was a consistent critic of Hecky and his signings at the time. If you look at the sort of players we have signed over the years, that one Summer Window with Hecky stands out a mile for the dross that was inflicted on us. I can think of no other window where we brought in half a team of nobodies from the lower leagues in England. The occasional one maybe but not the number that year. No one is going to convince me HEcky was behind most if not all of those signings. Once he was gone, we got back to the normal type of signing, with a higher proportion of success. Only Newell and Doidge are still with us and getting a game and the jury is still very much out on Newell. Hecky did weel with the players he inherited and failed miserably with the team he tried to create. Mathie was was complicit, but not responsible.

[Since452]

Heckingbottom gets an easy time of it on here in comparison to Lennon.

The man was utterly useless.

I think it's more to do with Lennon disrespecting the club at a critical time and continually making an arse of himself and dragging the club down. Hecky just wasn't the right guy for the job.

[The 90+2]

An easy time? Have you read this thread? If he was utterly useless then the players must know nothing about football either. If you didn’t like the guy that’s up to you but he was far from useless.

Aye he was a brilliant head coach right enough. 🤣

[MWHIBBIES]

The abuse he and others at the club took was disgraceful. A real low in my Hibs supporting life was seeing that.

[The 90+2]

The abuse he and others at the club took was disgraceful. A real low in my Hibs supporting life was seeing that.

Aye, I hated that time he got his car set on fire and kicked in outside the main stand.

[Since452]

The abuse he and others at the club took was disgraceful. A real low in my Hibs supporting life was seeing that.

Absolutely agree. I was actually quite embarrassed by it. Way over the top. I guess thats how football "fans" are nowadays but it's the worst abuse I can remember following Hibs. He was probably quite relieved to get the sack in the end.

[MWHIBBIES]

Aye, I hated that time he got his car set on fire and kicked in outside the main stand.Verbal abuse can be just as, if not more, damaging than physical abuse. Absolutely no excuse for the levels of abuse he, the team and other club employees got during that time.


Absolutely agree. I was actually quite embarrassed by it. Way over the top. I guess thats how football "fans" are nowadays but it's the worst abuse I can remember following Hibs. He was probably quite relieved to get the sack in the end.

Indeed. Guy wasn't good enough for the job but he wasn't all hopeless. Sure, we really struggled to hold leads, that was his main issue, but he was obviously doing something right to have us ahead in so many games. If Doidge had hit the ground running here, Hecky could've had a real brilliant start that season. It didn't happen for whatever reason and we really struggled to kill games off. We dropped points from winning positions 6 times in the first 10 league games. Its not like we were utterly dreadful for 90 minutes every week. A bit more concentration, some leadership and a bit of luck here and there and things could've been very different. Compare that to the last few weeks/months of spells under Yogi, Calderwood and Butcher. Those were really clueless managers who had you beat before the game started.

If you actually look at our start this year, you cant really say we've been playing excellent football. We've hung in there, kept going and had enough to grind out points. Fine margins between a great start and an awful one.

[Since452]

Verbal abuse can be just as, if not more, damaging than physical abuse. Absolutely no excuse for the levels of abuse he, the team and other club employees got during that time.



Indeed. Guy wasn't good enough for the job but he wasn't all hopeless. Sure, we really struggled to hold leads, that was his main issue, but he was obviously doing something right to have us ahead in so many games. If Doidge had hit the ground running here, Hecky could've had a real brilliant start that season. It didn't happen for whatever reason and we really struggled to kill games off. We dropped points from winning positions 6 times in the first 10 league games. Its not like we were utterly dreadful for 90 minutes every week. A bit more concentration, some leadership and a bit of luck here and there and things could've been very different. Compare that to the last few weeks/months of spells under Yogi, Calderwood and Butcher. Those were really clueless managers who had you beat before the game started.

If you actually look at our start this year, you cant really say we've been playing excellent football. We've hung in there, kept going and had enough to grind out points. Fine margins between a great start and an awful one.

Yeah we were unfortunate in some games under Hecky. Pittodrie springs to mind when we absolutely battered them and somehow managed to draw the game. Last minute goals against St Johnstone and Killie ect like you say, fine margins. On the flip side we had Fir Park and Ibrox which were utterly depressing.

Ultimately the buck stops with the manager and it unfortunately didn't work out here for him.

[JimBHibees]

Why is this thread titled Hecky’s legacy when the discussion is about our recruitment strategy? Ultimately PH had a short tenure at the club and there isn’t much of a legacy to speak of.

Also, congrats to Matty F who’s doing a fine job, but if the EEN is now reduced to transcribing interviews from a fan podcast they might as well call it a day. What on Earth are they journalists doing all day?

Absolutely that isn't journalism

[JimBHibees]

Verbal abuse can be just as, if not more, damaging than physical abuse. Absolutely no excuse for the levels of abuse he, the team and other club employees got during that time.



Indeed. Guy wasn't good enough for the job but he wasn't all hopeless. Sure, we really struggled to hold leads, that was his main issue, but he was obviously doing something right to have us ahead in so many games. If Doidge had hit the ground running here, Hecky could've had a real brilliant start that season. It didn't happen for whatever reason and we really struggled to kill games off. We dropped points from winning positions 6 times in the first 10 league games. Its not like we were utterly dreadful for 90 minutes every week. A bit more concentration, some leadership and a bit of luck here and there and things could've been very different. Compare that to the last few weeks/months of spells under Yogi, Calderwood and Butcher. Those were really clueless managers who had you beat before the game started.

If you actually look at our start this year, you cant really say we've been playing excellent football. We've hung in there, kept going and had enough to grind out points. Fine margins between a great start and an awful one.

Yogi was a hundred times better than Hecky.

[we are hibs]

Cant believe how much people try to rewrite history on here.

[BILLYHIBS]

What summed it up for me was that home Scottish Cup tie versus Celtic

First time I have ever seen a HIBS team in a Scottish Cup tie at home against Celtic sit back and surrender territory waiting on the inevitable

It was a no from me from that day

I left the ground absolutely raging! :grr:

[MWHIBBIES]

What summed it up for me was that home Scottish Cup tie versus Celtic

First time I have ever seen a HIBS team in a Scottish Cup tie at home against Celtic sit back and surrender territory waiting on the inevitable

It was a no from me from that day

I left the ground absolutely raging! :grr:So you'd written him off after his 4th match?


Yogi was a hundred times better than Hecky.

For the first 6 months sure. After that an absolute disaster. He put the foundations in place for our relegation imo. I think every club yogi has every managed has been relegated within a year or two of him leaving except the ones he actually took down.

[JimBHibees]

So you'd written him off after his 4th match?



For the first 6 months sure. After that an absolute disaster. He put the foundations in place for our relegation imo. I think every club yogi has every managed has been relegated within a year or two of him leaving except the ones he actually took down.

That is a stretch and a half. :greengrin

Think he was done over a bit in the transfer market as assume club lost faith. Stokes for Trakys :faf::faf:

[MWHIBBIES]

That is a stretch and a half. :greengrin

Think he was done over a bit in the transfer market as assume club lost faith. Stokes for Trakys :faf::faf:

Is it? Left an absolute mess, lost quality players and replaced very, very badly. The manager had a much bigger say in transfers then than now.

Yogi started it, Calderwood continued it, Fenlon halted it slightly, Butcher confirmed it.

[Inconsequential]

Yogi was a hundred times better than Hecky. Yogi got Hibs into Europe through the league placings. But then came the same old story he lost the star man (Stokes) to Celtic. Inadequate bargain basement replacements and couldn't reach the same standard after that. I don't think he was nearly as bad as Calderwood or Heckingbottom.

[JimBHibees]

Is it? Left an absolute mess, lost quality players and replaced very, very badly. The manager had a much bigger say in transfers then than now.

Yogi started it, Calderwood continued it, Fenlon halted it slightly, Butcher confirmed it.

Don't think he had anything like the money that got sold. Did he not lose Fletcher also. Personally think he was hard done to a bit. His buys were a bit questionable however not sure he was able to take some of the stick our fans gave out which is a shame. Did very good jobs at clubs with lesser expectations such as Falkirk and Inverness.

[JimBHibees]

Yogi got Hibs into Europe through the league placings. But then came the same old story he lost the star man (Stokes) to Celtic. Inadequate bargain basement replacements and couldn't reach the same standard after that. I don't think he was nearly as bad as Calderwood or Heckingbottom.

Agree totally he actually had some success at Hibs.

[MWHIBBIES]

Don't think he had anything like the money that got sold. Did he not lose Fletcher also. Personally think he was hard done to a bit. His buys were a bit questionable however not sure he was able to take some of the stick our fans gave out which is a shame. Did very good jobs at clubs with lesser expectations such as Falkirk and Inverness.

Fletcher left the summer Yogi joined, along with Jones. Bamba and Stokes replaced them so I don't think that can be blamed.

Yogi started very well but fell off massively and couldn't turn it around.

Seriously, look at the absolute pants transfer windows we had that season. It really laid the foundations for relegation. Not 1 player I'd consider a success joined. I'd probably consider that the worse transfer window in the clubs history.

Put the link instead of the image as it is too small :greengrin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Hibernian_F.C._season

[BILLYHIBS]

So you'd written him off after his 4th match?



For the first 6 months sure. After that an absolute disaster. He put the foundations in place for our relegation imo. I think every club yogi has every managed has been relegated within a year or two of him leaving except the ones he actually took down.
Yip and as usual I am very rarely wrong - lulled us into a false sense of security with three wins ( two away from home) but totally s#%t it against the OF.

Totally out of his depth seriously underestimated our League and standard of football

Once safe his players downed tools that season

It is the Coaches job to motivate the players and the writing was on the wall from the Celtic game imho

The way he set us up was not the HIBS way more like how Barnsley would approach playing a top flight club but not for me...sorry!

I seem to remember a similar insipid display at Hampden and 1-6 at Ibroke

Nice guy but thank god he gone

[MWHIBBIES]

Yip and as usual I am very rarely wrong - lulled us into a false sense of security with three wins ( two away from home) but totally s#%t it against the OF.

Totally out of his depth seriously underestimated our League and standard of football

Once safe his players downed tools that season

It is the Coaches job to motivate the players and the writing was on the wall from the Celtic game imho

The way he set us up was not the HIBS way more like how Barnsley would approach playing a top flight club but not for me...sorry!

I seem to remember a similar insipid display at Hampden and 1-6 at Ibroke

Nice guy but thank god he gone

So when he won 2-1 at Tynie a few weeks later you were saying ''na, he sat back against a treble winning Celtic side, get him out'' ?

He got that game wrong but competed very well in his 2 other home games with Celtic, drawing both.

With all due respect, IMO its absolute nonsense to write any manager, good or bad off after 4 matches when he wins 3.

[BILLYHIBS]

So when he won 2-1 at Tynie a few weeks later you were saying ''na, he sat back against a treble winning Celtic side, get him out'' ?

He got that game wrong but competed very well in his 2 other home games with Celtic, drawing both.

With all due respect, IMO its absolute nonsense to write any manager, good or bad off after 4 matches when he wins 3.
Agree was happy beating Hearts would take that every time and should have beat them again at ER but we missed a penalty?

How can I best explain my feelings after that defeat against Celtic that night to you?

Let me just say that if Neil Lennon was still our Manager that night we would have been in the next round as he had the Indian sign over Celtic

I suppose it was the submissive manner of the defeat that so pissed me off

It would have been the ideal game to give us the promised “ high press”

[MWHIBBIES]

Agree was happy beating Hearts would take that every time and should have beat them again at ER but we missed a penalty?

How can I best explain my feelings after that defeat against Celtic that night to you?

Let me just say that if Neil Lennon was still our Manager that night we would have been in the next round as he had the Indian sign over Celtic

I suppose it was the submissive manner of the defeat that so pissed me off

Maybe, maybe not. Lennon might've made one of his usual big game awful tactical decisions and had us easily beaten.

[Billy Whizz]

Most at the club will admit, they thought Hecky would promote youth, but in the end he threw all the young lads under the bus

[BILLYHIBS]

Maybe, maybe not. Lennon might've made one of his usual big game awful tactical decisions and had us easily beaten.

Possibly ?

Difficult as it is to comprehend I left ER that night thinking that Hecky was not the answer and I do not think I was alone

His style of football was not for HIBS

He was resistant to change and that was ultimately his downfall

[jacomo]

Agree was happy beating Hearts would take that every time and should have beat them again at ER but we missed a penalty?

How can I best explain my feelings after that defeat against Celtic that night to you?

Let me just say that if Neil Lennon was still our Manager that night we would have been in the next round as he had the Indian sign over Celtic

I suppose it was the submissive manner of the defeat that so pissed me off

It would have been the ideal game to give us the promised “ high press”


Early in a manager’s tenure any fan will be thinking ‘what is he trying to do?’

As you say, Hecky promised something akin to Klopp’s approach at Liverpool, but what we got was very different. There was such a disconnect between what he said and what we got.

Turns out that those who had misgivings from the start were proved correct.

[Brightside]

Most at the club will admit, they thought Hecky would promote youth, but in the end he threw all the young lads under the bus

Who did he throw under the bus?

[Hiber-nation]

Fletcher left the summer Yogi joined, along with Jones. Bamba and Stokes replaced them so I don't think that can be blamed.

Yogi started very well but fell off massively and couldn't turn it around.

Seriously, look at the absolute pants transfer windows we had that season. It really laid the foundations for relegation. Not 1 player I'd consider a success joined. I'd probably consider that the worse transfer window in the clubs history.

Put the link instead of the image as it is too small :greengrin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Hibernian_F.C._season

De Graaf, Hart, Stephens, Trakys, Thornhill, Scott....that is scandalous really.

[allezsauzee]

Hecky wasn't useless but I think he made the opposite mistake that JC made. JC signed players who had good physical attributes and hoped to coach them into good footballers and Hecky tried to mould a team of footballers into a disciplined hard working unit. Most teams need a balance of the two which hopefully Jack Ross is getting close to doing.

[jacomo]

Who did he throw under the bus?


Sean Mackie for one.

[MacGruber]

Is his legacy Doidge and Newell?

Tbf I would add Jackson to the list as 3 very solid signings. Maxwell was good enough for cover too just a pity he seen him as keeping out Marciano and Bogdan.

There were the duds, Vela & James - can't remember any other Hecky signings - loan for Middleton.

Certainly never set us back years with all his signings being awful as initially looked.

[hibbydog]

Players loved Hecky. Results just didnt come. Doidge had about 20 chances when Hecky was here....if they go in suddenly everyone had a different view. Hecky will do very well in football.

100%

I’m still deciding whether our improvement over the last year is more to do with Doidge finding form & having Boyle back, or the change in manager.....

[Since452]

Collins - started well ended *****.
Yogi - Started well ended *****.
Lennon - started boring, unreal spell in middle, ended *****.
Hecky - started well ended *****
Jack Ross - magnificent human being, I'd adopt a child with him

[calumhibee1]

Tbf I would add Jackson to the list as 3 very solid signings. Maxwell was good enough for cover too just a pity he seen him as keeping out Marciano and Bogdan.

There were the duds, Vela & James - can't remember any other Hecky signings - loan for Middleton.

Certainly never set us back years with all his signings being awful as initially looked.

Don’t you remember that any good signing was made by the recruitment team and any ***** signing was made by Hecky?

Doidge was definitely a Hecky signing when he wasn’t scoring. Then the goals started flowing and he’d been on the radar for ages and he was a recruitment team signing.

[Beefster]

An easy time? Have you read this thread? If he was utterly useless then the players must know nothing about football either. If you didn’t like the guy that’s up to you but he was far from useless.

He could be the best pal of all the players, a surrogate father to them all, the nicest guy ever to grace the HTC and also rescue escaped puppies on a daily basis but his football was still horrible and dull as **** to watch and, after the initial [league] boost he gave us, was crap at getting results too (his primary responsibility).

[Brightside]

He could be the best pal of all the players, a surrogate father to them all, the nicest guy ever to grace the HTC and also rescue escaped puppies on a daily basis but his football was still horrible and dull as **** to watch and, after the initial [league] boost he gave us, was crap at getting results too (his primary responsibility).

Our last few games been scintillating on the eye?

[jacomo]

Our last few games been scintillating on the eye?


Listen I know you liked the guy but he wasn’t the right fit for Hibs. Sometimes you need to accept it and move on. This thread has turned into yet more historic revisionism about past managers and it’s tedious.

[Pretty Boy]

Our last few games been scintillating on the eye?

No.

Our last 3 has seen us pick up the same number of points it took PH until 19th October and 9 games to muster though. By the time he was sacked he did manage a whopping 2 more points tbf.

[Brightside]

Listen I know you liked the guy but he wasn’t the right fit for Hibs. Sometimes you need to accept it and move on. This thread has turned into yet more historic revisionism about past managers and it’s tedious.

I don’t have a problem with either of the managers tbh. I just don’t act like a wee bairn calling him useless. I’m discussing the mans ability to coach and based on the players he was top class, a different league to Lennon. Both him and Jack are excellent coaches and a lot better than some of the previous coaches mentioned on this thread. And before anyone starts talking about managers being different, we aren’t supposed to have managers at Hibs now. We have a head coach. Lennon didn’t fit that and left most of the technical coaching to Parker. Bottom line is if Doidge and scored as many sclaffs as he does now this thread would be very different. Such is life and Hecky is now away coaching at a high level down south.

[Brightside]

No.

Our last 3 has seen us pick up the same number of points it took PH until 19th October and 9 games to muster though. By the time he was sacked he did manage a whopping 2 more points tbf.

The post was talking about the style of football. People only care about that if we lose those game tho.

[Pretty Boy]

The post was talking about the style of football. People only care about that if we lose those game tho.

They style of football now is effective. It's not pretty but if we keep winning the grumbles will be largely dismissed and our points tally will be pointed out.

Under PH it was ineffective both in terms of aesthetics and winning games. It was dull and more often than not we failed to win. 1 win from his last 16 league games says everything that needs said really.

[jacomo]

I don’t have a problem with either of the managers tbh. I just don’t act like a wee bairn calling him useless. I’m discussing the mans ability to coach and based on the players he was top class, a different league to Lennon. Both him and Jack are excellent coaches and a lot better than some of the previous coaches mentioned on this thread. And before anyone starts talking about managers being different, we aren’t supposed to have managers at Hibs now. We have a head coach. Lennon didn’t fit that and left most of the technical coaching to Parker. Bottom line is if Doidge and scored as many sclaffs as he does now this thread would be very different. Such is life and Hecky is now away coaching at a high level down south.


Good luck to him. But the HC role goes way beyond coaching - they get huge leeway on setting up the team, tactics and style of play, a major say on transfers and squad composition, and also act as ambassador and main spokesperson for the club.

It was in these areas that Hecky struggled.

[WhileTheChief..]

I don’t have a problem with either of the managers tbh. I just don’t act like a wee bairn calling him useless. I’m discussing the mans ability to coach and based on the players he was top class, a different league to Lennon. Both him and Jack are excellent coaches and a lot better than some of the previous coaches mentioned on this thread. And before anyone starts talking about managers being different, we aren’t supposed to have managers at Hibs now. We have a head coach. Lennon didn’t fit that and left most of the technical coaching to Parker. Bottom line is if Doidge and scored as many sclaffs as he does now this thread would be very different. Such is life and Hecky is now away coaching at a high level down south.

No need for the name calling - I’m no wee bairn.

It’s clear as day that he was useless as a manager. Your defence is that he was a good guy, a pretty damning verdict if that’s all you’ve got.

[Brightside]

No need for the name calling - I’m no wee bairn.

It’s clear as day that he was useless as a manager. Your defence is that he was a good guy, a pretty damning verdict if that’s all you’ve got.

My defence was he’s an excellent coach. Mark Milligan has just said the same today. You won’t find a player talking him down for his coaching abilities. Results didn’t follow after his good start. But there was nothing wrong with his coaching - according to players that he coached. They know much better than any of us on a forum.

[Keith_M]

I'm sure he's a nice bloke but I think the word 'legacy', for a guy that was at the club for about eight months, is a bit of an overkill.

[blackpoolhibs]

My defence was he’s an excellent coach. Mark Milligan has just said the same today. You won’t find a player talking him down for his coaching abilities. Results didn’t follow after his good start. But there was nothing wrong with his coaching - according to players that he coached. They know much better than any of us on a forum.

Alex Ferguson used to mainly leave the coaching to others i was told, how would you rate him?

[Brightside]

Alex Ferguson used to mainly leave the coaching to others i was told, how would you rate him?

Pish. But excellent at choosing wine.

[blackpoolhibs]

Pish. But excellent at choosing wine.

But he's a lovely man.:greengrin

[LeithMike]

My defence was he’s an excellent coach. Mark Milligan has just said the same today. You won’t find a player talking him down for his coaching abilities. Results didn’t follow after his good start. But there was nothing wrong with his coaching - according to players that he coached. They know much better than any of us on a forum.I think you can be a good 'coach' in the sense of training and preparing players. Giving a team direction and a way of playing requires something different and I don't think it's something easily acquired. I don't think PH had that to be honest and so no matter what happened in the short-term, I don't think PH was going to be a success.

I certainly think NL had the ability to set out a direction of play but perhaps lacked a bit on 'coaching' players. Fergie never really coached players either. It takes more than a guy who has players training well to manage them in a game.

Good coaches of players are probably fairly common but good managers of players are few and far between.

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