VAR or NO VAR

[gbhibby]

Watching our game and the champions league final got me thinking about whether the SPFL should be spending money on VAR. Yes St Johnstone had a goal flagged for offside which wasn't but in the champions league final there was a clear penalty which was not looked at by VAR as the referee was adamant (not the pop star) that it wasn't a penalty so no VAR intervention.
Do we spend money on installing VAR which has given some weird decisions or do we accept that refs and assistant refs are only human and we take the rough with the smooth.
My opinion is that VAR still needs a lot of work and a few rule changes to be any more effective than having no VAR.

[TheGog]

Naw
Naw
Naw
Naw
Naw
Naw
Naw


And finally

NAW!!!!

[Smartie]

I don’t think we should write off VAR but I don’t think we can say it’s worked so far.

A few rule tweaks and a bit of understanding as regards what is expected of it and I still think it should be a force for good.

[Bristolhibby]

Watching our game and the champions league final got me thinking about whether the SPFL should be spending money on VAR. Yes St Johnstone had a goal flagged for offside which wasn't but in the champions league final there was a clear penalty which was not looked at by VAR as the referee was adamant (not the pop star) that it wasn't a penalty so no VAR intervention.
Do we spend money on installing VAR which has given some weird decisions or do we accept that refs and assistant refs are only human and we take the rough with the smooth.
My opinion is that VAR still needs a lot of work and a few rule changes to be any more effective than having no VAR.

The not checking the penalty last night was bonkers IMHO.


J

[mal]

VAR is brilliant in principle. In practice it has been unbelievably bad. Let's allow other, richer leagues to get it sorted before we even think about adopting it.

[Pagan Hibernia]

In its current format absolutely not.

VAR has the potential to be hugely progressive for the game. At the moment it’s a huge step back.

[Scouse Hibee]

The not checking the penalty last night was bonkers IMHO.


J

Absolutely, almost certain that a VAR check would have awarded a penalty going by previous decisions by VAR.

[Alan62]

VAR would only be useful if it was able to produce a conclusive and correct outcome every time it is used. Clearly, it can't. If anything, it produces long delays while the trigonometry experts pore over the minutiae before pronouncing a verdict that leaves at least half of the audience perplexed and bemused. It's a waste of time and money. Let's not go there.

[Dublin07]

Goal line technology is needed. VAR is a huge no from me though.

[H18 SFR]

100% no for me.

[Scouse Hibee]

VAR would only be useful if it was able to produce a conclusive and correct outcome every time it is used. Clearly, it can't. If anything, it produces long delays while the trigonometry experts pore over the minutiae before pronouncing a verdict that leaves at least half of the audience perplexed and bemused. It's a waste of time and money. Let's not go there.

Agre with this, goal line technology is all that is needed in my opinion.

[danhibees1875]

VAR probably has the potential to improve significantly from the way it has been used over the last while, so it's maybe unfair to rule on decisively at this point. It's implementation has been poor, it seems to get used inconsistently and throws up decisions as questionable as non-VAR ones, and the time taken to make decisions needs to be significantly reduced.

What I'd worry about is the knock on effect that years of VAR would have on enjoying a live game of football. Knowing that goals (amongst other things) could still be recalled and chalked off long after the celebrations have died down doesn't sit right with me. I can see why it would be a winner for TV watchers but I think it would be detrimental to those at the game watching live.

I'd go with the "take the rough with the smooth" approach noted by the OP. Referees, as much as people love to loathe them, get the majority of things right and out of the things they get wrong it's probably 50/50 if they go for or against you. I would take that and having a more flowing and spontaneous game of football over the over-analysing of incidents to the Nth degree at the moment.

[Brightside]

Scottish football cannot afford it.

[RyeSloan]

Scottish football cannot afford it.

Correct...it’s a daft conversation to be having considering we don’t even have goal line tech yet!

[HendoDelivered]

Nope. Ruins the natural flow of the game.

[jonny]

Goal line technology is needed. VAR is a huge no from me though.

This for me as well.
Goal line tech might only make the difference in less than a handful of games in a season but is worth the investment on the most critical call of them all.
If the VAR methods improve in the future then I'm not all out against it but definitely not in its current form.

[Carheenlea]

VAR just makes the game more sterile.

Probably works better for those who enjoy watching on TV with fancy graphics/variable camera angles/punditry etc where some added VAR technology adds to the productive value of a television showcase all from comfort of armchair, but the live experience of VAR detracts from what is a sporting contest where the controversial decisions are part of the whole melting pot.

[Bristolhibby]

This for me as well.
Goal line tech might only make the difference in less than a handful of games in a season but is worth the investment on the most critical call of them all.
If the VAR methods improve in the future then I'm not all out against it but definitely not in its current form.

Sparkys “goal” vs the gunts.

The double handball v Falkirk in the Playoffs for me was the most maddening miss from a ref I’ve ever seen. VAR for that please.

Not the 1mm offside calls that are just as inconclusive.

J

[TheGog]

Scottish football cannot afford it.
Don't want it near Scotland but how can it cost so much money for one guy to sit in a room and rewind sky a few times?

[where'stheslope]

VAR is as annoying as referees, if it goes your way its great, if it goes against you its plain biased!!!

[Robbo6-2]

Absolutely not.

VAR is ruining football at the top level

[MWHIBBIES]

The way the Germans and Italians use it? Yes, definitely.

We'd have won comfortably yesterday with it. Pen and red card for then missed early doors, would've had us cruising.

[whiskyhibby]

VAR is brilliant in principle. In practice it has been unbelievably bad. Let's allow other, richer leagues to get it sorted before we even think about adopting it.



Absolutely spot on , its becoming a nightmare in practise, completely destroys the flow of the game

[LongJohnBanger]

Absolutely not.

St. Johnstone should have had a goal but they didn't. **** happens, twas ever thus. In an ideal world there would be a mechanism by which the rules are accurately applied exclusively by humans.

Humans are fallible though, as demonstrated by the St. Johnstone defender giving away the penalty that won Hibs the game, or Liam Craig not being able to stop his whingeing and getting sent off.

In my opinion, VAR is a monster that's been created through the over-analysis of the game by Sky Sports in particular but also by other football broadcasters (and accelerated massively following Frank Lampard's 'goal' against Germany in the World Cup) looking for talking points to fill the air time of their football show(s) which has resulted in folk being found offside by the finest of margins which in itself becomes a 'major' talking point.

I would take a watered down approach in terms of goal-line technology but VAR in its current form should be kept away from Scottish Fitba.

[bigwheel]

I hadn’t realised that Hendry who had the goal chalked off for Saints is the son of Colin ...

[BlackSheep]

I am all for VAR, and by the time we can afford it the tech will be great.... the downfall for scottish football is it still involves our inept officials being at the helm!!!!

[hibbyfraelibby]

If VAR was used like it us in the NFL then maybe.

If each side gets 2 challenges, one in each half, and the 4th official makes the call on the outcome not the on field officials.

More important for me is goal line technology.

[Brightside]

Don't want it near Scotland but how can it cost so much money for one guy to sit in a room and rewind sky a few times?

:greengrin:greengrin You can't just put it in place for the game thats on Sky.

[jacomo]

I f****** hate VAR.

Also, one of the biggest attractions of Scottish football is its fast paced nature. VAR would kill that.

[Oscar T Grouch]

I think the technology and rules of using it need to be perfected before allowing it into our game. I think it is good if you are sitting watching on your sofa but I can't imagine waiting around in the crowd for VAR to do their thing. The offside rule needs to be sorted for it too, just now disallowing a goal because a players left toe is 1mm ahead of the defenders arse is just wrong, technically offside? Aye, but it is not in the spirit of the game, the offside rule is there to ensure the forwards don't get an advantage on the defenders, your toe being 1mm ahead of the defenders arse is not an advantage.

Like someone above said, let's leave it to the richer leagues in the world to sort the technology and the rules around it before we start implementing it.

Goal line technology on the other hand should be implemented ASAP.

[Saturday Boy]

We already have a kind of VAR.

Anything slightly doubtful and it’s: Penalty to Rangers.

[Diclonius]

Goal scored.
Oops, VAR check. Everyone sit about for 3 minutes.
Ah, now the referee has to go look at it on the screen thing. Couple more minutes at least.
He's looking at the same angle 100 times now, hold on...
Almost there. Few more minutes.
Goal disallowed.

A resounding **** no to VAR. If a decision can't be made within ten seconds, it shouldn't be made at all. Once that can be done, yes, implement it.

[Victor]

Goal line technology, yes. VAR, definitely NO.


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[MWHIBBIES]

Goal scored.
Oops, VAR check. Everyone sit about for 3 minutes.
Ah, now the referee has to go look at it on the screen thing. Couple more minutes at least.
He's looking at the same angle 100 times now, hold on...
Almost there. Few more minutes.
Goal disallowed.

A resounding **** no to VAR. If a decision can't be made within ten seconds, it shouldn't be made at all. Once that can be done, yes, implement it.

None of that is VARs fault. It is the referees using it to blame. Doesn't happen in Germany/Italy etc.

[ScottB]

Every game is being recorded and broadcast live, whether on Sky or online. All we need is an assistant ref with access to the feed, or even just a monitor at the side of the pitch for the ref to review replays. Don’t see how that could be expensive to pull off, or even need over the top branding or procedures to introduce.

[gbhibby]

Lots of good points here. Goal Line technology gives a definitive answer(make sure it is switched on). If that can be installed in Scotland fine. The offside rule needs to be changed for VAR to be effective. With VAR the Ref on the pitch must go to the monitor at the side of the pitch to make the ultimate decision not a ref in a studio. MLS refs consult pitch side monitors often.

I have friends who are referees and the same incident will have different opinions and decisions.

[Spike Mandela]

VAR will mean vast majority of decisions are correct. We will benefit from this as much as we would lose out.

At the end of the day all we want is correct decisions. Win, draw or lose fairly.

[SlickShoes]

Having seen it in action, I would say NO.

Goal line technology is necessary. The rest I don't want at all.

[Scouse Hibee]

VAR will mean vast majority of decisions are correct. We will benefit from this as much as we would lose out.

At the end of the day all we want is correct decisions. Win, draw or lose fairly.

Not so sure about that as it will still be subject to the individual interpretation of individual VAR operators.Lack of consistency has stood out so far.

[makaveli1875]

Goal line technology on the other hand should be implemented ASAP.

This .

[Carheenlea]

Not so sure about that as it will still be subject to the individual interpretation of individual VAR operators.Lack of consistency has stood out so far.

Decisions and interpretation on the rules of football are largely matter of opinion rather than than matter of fact. Factual decisions would be whether a ball has crossed a line or not, and forensically examining offside calls which might spot a stray toe or finger in an offside position, but the rest is always open to debate.

[Eyrie]

VAR can only be acceptable if it is restricted to the clear and obvious errors.

Stopping the game for ten minutes to review the exact angle of an armpit hair in super slow motion from ten different angles is why VAR is not acceptable.

[Scouse Hibee]

VAR can only be acceptable if it is restricted to the clear and obvious errors.

Stopping the game for ten minutes to review the exact angle of an armpit hair in super slow motion from ten different angles is why VAR is not acceptable.

I disagree as the decision as to whether it is a clear and obvious error has in itself led to some bizarre decisions already.

[Baader]

Goal line technology yes. VAR, no thanks.

[PatHead]

Experienced it during the Woman's World Cup last year. It creates an odd atmosphere when a goal is scored and even odder when one is disallowed.

A made for TV product. Definate no from me. Agree with goal line technology though.

[we are hibs]

VAR is good thing. Its rarely got anything wrong from what i have seen. The way the officials are using it is a problem.

[MWHIBBIES]

VAR is good thing. Its rarely got anything wrong from what i have seen. The way the officials are using it is a problem.

Yep. VAR is a process operated by human beings.

Its like blaming the oven if you burn the dinner.

[Hibs07p]

Totally agree with goal line technology, but VAR is only as good as the person monitoring it or the ref calling for it, assessing it fairly. I'm sure everyone will believe that biased officials would only see what they wanted to see. I'm still getting over John Beaton awarding us a correct last minute penalty though. :greengrin

GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016

[Hibee Mac]

A resounding no from me.

I want Scottish football to retain its "real football" feel, that might sounds daft to some but VAR is just one of the modern game's many methods of sterilising the bits of football that make it what it is.

I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks VAR really works in its current form, until then why would the Scottish game bother?

Like others have said though, goal line technology on the other hand is a no brainer.

[Scouse Hibee]

Yep. VAR is a process operated by human beings.

Its like blaming the oven if you burn the dinner.

Eh? I think you have misunderstood. It’s not a process it is another refereeing position.

The video assistant referee is an assistant referee in association football who reviews decisions made by the head referee with the use of video footage and headset for communication.

[allezsauzee]

Not for me, VAR was brought in to make football fairer and ruling out goals because a player is half an inch offside and not gaining any advantage by doing so is not my idea of justice. As an example our goal against Dundee United probably would have been chalked off because a tiny part of Doig's elbow was offside in a situation where there was no advantage in being offside. A lot of these decisions that might be technically correct by the tiniest of margins but don't make the game better off in my opinion. What might actually make VAR more workable is if rules are changed so that you have to be clearly offside (daylight between attacker and defender) for it to be given and fouls/penalties given for actual fouls rather than just any physical contact.

[MWHIBBIES]

Eh? I think you have misunderstood. It’s not a process it is another refereeing position.

The video assistant referee is an assistant referee in association football who reviews decisions made by the head referee with the use of video footage and headset for communication.

Yes. I know. The VAR part is basically a bloke in a tent with a monitor. The decisions made and the time it takes is entirely on the humans.

[JimBHibees]

If it meant more big decisions being correct why not.

[Nicho87]

No VAR
Yes Goal line technology

[Bishop Hibee]

No VAR
Yes Goal line technology

This.

[Bobby's Cinema]

VAR is great for those quick obvious decisions that can be overturned. But I do not like the way it is being implemented, it needs to be much quicker and slicker.

It is the future and it is coming. It will get better.
But right now would VAR in its current form enhance my enjoyment of the Scottish game? No.

[Saturday Boy]

Experienced it during the Woman's World Cup last year. It creates an odd atmosphere when a goal is scored and even odder when one is disallowed.

A made for TV product. Definate no from me. Agree with goal line technology though.

I was also at the Women’s World Cup and I began typing a similar post last night.

It quickly turned into an angry rant, so I deleted it rather than post it. I’m getting angry again thinking about it.

[HendoDelivered]

The way the Germans and Italians use it? Yes, definitely.

We'd have won comfortably yesterday with it. Pen and red card for then missed early doors, would've had us cruising.

They would have rightfully had a goal as well.

[MWHIBBIES]

They would have rightfully had a goal as well.

Doubtful because the other things happened first. The game would have played out different

[J-C]

For all the little flaws VAR has it has many positives and sunday's game is a prime example. St Johnstone's goal would have given, we would've had a certain penalty for hand ball and there are many more examples in the SPFL games played so far, our refs and linesmen are at times so bad it can only be a good thing.