Scott Allan- A formation that suits.

[The Wireless]

The conundrum that JR has is how do you find the best shape to suit your mercurial talent that is Allan without sacrificing other areas. I am aware it has to be dependent on the strengths of the opposition, player availability and current form etc etc. however opinions of supporters vary. My personal thoughts are that his favoured role is behind a striker in a 4-2-3-1 or at the tip of the diamond in a 4-4-2. The first shape would leave Ross playing 1 striker which I am not sure is his preference or supporters choice having invested in both Nisbet & Doidge. The 2nd shape allows both strikers to play, gives us strong foothold in the centre of midfield, however takes out the natural strengths of Boyle and Horgan with the width coming from the full backs. I wondered what other folks take on this is or am I missing something?

[1875Sean]

I think the best he’s played is in a 352 just behind the strikers with two sitting behind

[AZhibee]

I think the best he’s played is in a 352 just behind the strikers with two sitting behind

Agreed, would like to see Hallberg and Gogic behind him, Boyle n Horgan on outside.

[BoomtownHibees]

Rocky

Mcginn
Porteous
Hanlon

Boyle
Gogic
Newell (potentially McCrorie)
Allan
Doig

Nisbet
Doidge

[BILLYHIBS]

Definitely in the hole behind Doidge and Nisbet and having a pop himself

This is his third spell at the club scoring 16 goals from 99 appearances

Does not seem to be as influential as in his first two spells starting in 2014 but still only 28 needs to kick on this season and get back to his usual high standards

He will know that himself and be looking to be a starter

[Jones28]

3-5-2 is the way to go.

A back 3 of McGinn - Porteous - Hanlon with Boyle wide right and Doig wide left.

Gogic and Newall/Halberg sitting

Allan in the hole

Doidge and Nisbit up front.

Anyone who doesn’t think that’s the way to go needs to watch the games we played in the latter half of our first season back in the top flight. We were scintillating, possibly one of the most exciting teams to watch in my lifetime watching Hibs.

[murray26]

He’s the most talented player at the club but does need to be played in his best position.. for the benefit of the club I hope jack Ross recognises this soon..

[The Wireless]

My concern with 3 at the back is that most teams deploy a back 4 with 1 striker which would give them an overload in wide areas both in an attacking and a defending situation. I have watched on numerous occasions teams against us have freedom to deliver crosses into our box without any pressure when we have deployed this system.It also drags Paul Hanlon into areas where he is often isolated and out paced with opposition getting in behind. My opinion is Paul is better in a central partnership with Porteous. It is also a huge ask for any wide player physically to cover the length of the pitch.
I am not convinced practically this is a game planA we could successfully use against either of the Old Firm whilst getting the best out of what we have and making it difficult for them. I suppose time will tell. :flag:

[500miles]

It might just have to be Scott Allan to tweak his game rather than the rest of the team.

[The Wireless]

3-5-2 is the way to go.

A back 3 of McGinn - Porteous - Hanlon with Boyle wide right and Doig wide left.

Gogic and Newall/Halberg sitting

Allan in the hole

Doidge and Nisbit up front.

Anyone who doesn’t think that’s the way to go needs to watch the games we played in the latter half of our first season back in the top flight. We were scintillating, possibly one of the most exciting teams to watch in my lifetime watching Hibs.

No argument from me on this comment. Maybe the shape worked better as we had better players which I suppose is relevant to any formation.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It might just have to be Scott Allan to tweak his game rather than the rest of the team.

I was thinking the same.

[Fergus52]

I think it would be worth trying the diamond again, our best performances last season (away to St Johnstone, home to Aberdeen and Motherwell) came playing it.

In those games Boyle was on the right but stayed out wide, still playing like a winger, so was still looking dangerous getting on the ball with plenty space in wide areas. Just means that the left midfielder has to stay narrow and help out centrally, which suits Newell imo, giving Doig plenty space to attack into on the overlap.

Also think that Gogic would make us look even stronger using this system, as he's more suited to playing at the base than Hallberg, who was playing there last season.

[Greenbeard]

I think it would be worth trying the diamond again, our best performances last season (away to St Johnstone, home to Aberdeen and Motherwell) came playing it.

In those games Boyle was on the right but stayed out wide, still playing like a winger, so was still looking dangerous getting on the ball with plenty space in wide areas. Just means that the left midfielder has to stay narrow and help out centrally, which suits Newell imo, giving Doig plenty space to attack into on the overlap.

Also think that Gogic would make us look even stronger using this system, as he's more suited to playing at the base than Hallberg, who was playing there last season.
Good call based on Saturday. Maybe as wide as Craigentinny Avenue?

[Gypsy King]

I think it would be worth trying the diamond again, our best performances last season (away to St Johnstone, home to Aberdeen and Motherwell) came playing it.

In those games Boyle was on the right but stayed out wide, still playing like a winger, so was still looking dangerous getting on the ball with plenty space in wide areas. Just means that the left midfielder has to stay narrow and help out centrally, which suits Newell imo, giving Doig plenty space to attack into on the overlap.

Also think that Gogic would make us look even stronger using this system, as he's more suited to playing at the base than Hallberg, who was playing there last season.


Yeah I Agree with this. It was really effective in the home game against Aberdeen. Id like to see us try this with Gogic the destroyer at the base which will hopefully free up and utilise arguably our best player Allan in his natural position.

[Andy74]

3-5-2 is the way to go.

A back 3 of McGinn - Porteous - Hanlon with Boyle wide right and Doig wide left.

Gogic and Newall/Halberg sitting

Allan in the hole

Doidge and Nisbit up front.

Anyone who doesn’t think that’s the way to go needs to watch the games we played in the latter half of our first season back in the top flight. We were scintillating, possibly one of the most exciting teams to watch in my lifetime watching Hibs.

This helps both Allan and Newell. I think Newell is pretty specifically a left of a 3 midfielder. He’s not a winger and he’s not one of two in the middle.

[MyJo]

3-4-1-2?

_______________Marciano

______McGinn____Porteous____Hanlon

Boyle_______Gogic_______Newell_______Doig

_________________Allan

__________Nisbet________Doidge

[MrRobot]

Pretty sure Allan has said he prefers playing deeper, not behind the strikers.

[Jones28]

This helps both Allan and Newell. I think Newell is pretty specifically a left of a 3 midfielder. He’s not a winger and he’s not one of two in the middle.

Yepp, and for games where we will need to be really combative in midfield Mcrorie can step in to that role.

[calumhibee1]

Yepp, and for games where we will need to be really combative in midfield Mcrorie can step in to that role.

Doesn’t sound like McRorie is happening.

[JohnMcM]

It might just have to be Scott Allan to tweak his game rather than the rest of the team.

I'm coming in line with you. He can be a match winner on his day but I wouldn't expect JR to build a shape solely to accommodate him. That is building in an over dependence on a single player, no? He's a professional and as much as I usually enjoy seeing him I equally think he might have to change his game for the good of the team.

But what do I know, I'm neither player or manager just a supporter.:greengrin

[Jones28]

Doesn’t sound like McRorie is happening.

That’s pissed on my cornflakes this morning.

[WeeRussell]

Pretty sure Allan has said he prefers playing deeper, not behind the strikers.

:agree: Wasn't a number 10 as a youngster - I'd have him in the centre of midfield whether that's a deep-lying playmaker, or behind the strikers.

I don't think he's ever announced he's incapable of playing in a midfield two either but that's been decided by hibs.net as well.

[660]

Scott Allan isn’t good enough to shoehorn an entire team around

[Brooster]

Scott Allan isn’t good enough to shoehorn an entire team around

The simple fact is he wins games and we play better when he is in the team. We should set up to accommodate him.

[Paisley Hibby]

Scott Allan isn’t good enough to shoehorn an entire team around

exactly

[Paisley Hibby]

Maybe worth remembering that Jack Ross didn't sign Allan?

[keep the faith]

Scott Allan isn’t good enough to shoehorn an entire team around

I think he is.

[LeithMike]

Maybe worth remembering that Jack Ross didn't sign Allan?Yep, doesnt strike me as his kind of player. His signing of Drey Wright make me think he wants a functional midfield with the creativity out wide. Alan will have to try very hard to get him to change his preferred way of playing to accommodate him.

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[B.H.F.C]

Yep, doesnt strike me as his kind of player. His signing of Drey Wright make me think he wants a functional midfield with the creativity out wide. Alan will have to try very hard to get him to change his preferred way of playing to accommodate him.

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I’m not sure that Allan isn’t his type of player. He must have started in 90% of the matches Ross has been here for.

He had him in the team for the first game of the season. Left him out for one game and we did really well so he didn’t get back in, but he’s the first player he’s turned to when it wasn’t going well in the subsequent two games.

Still think Allan will have a big part to play this year.

[MWHIBBIES]

Yep, doesnt strike me as his kind of player. His signing of Drey Wright make me think he wants a functional midfield with the creativity out wide. Alan will have to try very hard to get him to change his preferred way of playing to accommodate him.

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A few more weeks of Saturdays 442 and Ross will have to change his mind.

[LEaston87]

---------------- Marciano

------- McGinn Porteous Hanlon

------------Allan-------Gogic

Boyle ----------Mallan------------Horgan

------------Doidge Nisbet


That's how I would set up, Scott playing as a deep lying playmaker like McGeouch did.

- Attack mostly from the wings.
- When we have the ball Gogic move into cb and go to a back 4 with allan as deep lying playmaker.
- Boyle and Horgan will have to backtrack when we don't have possession.
- Mallan could pick up a lot of loose balls within shooting distance if we are attacking from wide, he could also follow up on Doidge's hold up play and maybe find shooting opportunities.

If Allan played deeper he will have a lot more of the ball and won't have two players snapping at his heels all the time, he can still get forward if space opens up for him of course. Despite being a playmaker he's not afraid to get stuck in (that tackle on Rossiter comes to mind).

[Keyser Sauzee]

Could Allan fill the deep lying playmaker role alongside Gogic? I don’t think it would work as just a 2 but in a 3 it may have some potential.

[Nicho87]

Allan should be one of the first names on the team sheet imo.

[Hibbyradge]

Allan should be one of the first names on the team sheet imo.

Not for me.

He's a lovely passer of the ball, but he's like a man short when there's battles to be won. He also rarely plays the full 90 so bringing him on after an hour or so when the opponents are getting tired makes perfect sense.

[Northernhibee]

It's absolute madness to change the entire team to suit a player who isn't even the best player we have.

[calumhibee1]

Scott Allan isn’t good enough to shoehorn an entire team around

Scott Allan was arguably every bit as good as SJM in one of the best Hibs teams I’ve seen in my life time (admittedly it was only half a season).

If you can find the right formation and players around him then he definitely is imo.

[hibee-boys]

I'm not one for being heavily reliant on any one player but if the last 2 games is an indication of the quality of football we'll play without Allan starting then I could be persuaded otherwise. 3-5-2 against all teams other than the old firm with Allan playing between sitting midfielders and front 2 please.

[KingPat4]

I think Allan should start every week, but not too deep. Gives the ball away too much.

[fife hfc]

3-5-2 is the way to go.

A back 3 of McGinn - Porteous - Hanlon with Boyle wide right and Doig wide left.

Gogic and Newall/Halberg sitting

Allan in the hole

Doidge and Nisbit up front.

Anyone who doesn’t think that’s the way to go needs to watch the games we played in the latter half of our first season back in the top flight. We were scintillating, possibly one of the most exciting teams to watch in my lifetime watching Hibs.Would be the system and team I would play at the moment. It allows us to play two upfront, have Doig and Boyle give us width and have cover in front of the back three to give us solidity.

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[Nicho87]

Not for me.

He's a lovely passer of the ball, but he's like a man short when there's battles to be won. He also rarely plays the full 90 so bringing him on after an hour or so when the opponents are getting tired makes perfect sense.

Did you catch the game Saturday?

[we are hibs]

Some peoples takes on Allan on here are laughable to say the least.


Short memories.

[Jdawg]

---------------- Marciano

------- McGinn Porteous Hanlon

------------Allan-------Gogic

Boyle ----------Mallan------------Horgan

------------Doidge Nisbet


That's how I would set up, Scott playing as a deep lying playmaker like McGeouch did.

- Attack mostly from the wings.
- When we have the ball Gogic move into cb and go to a back 4 with allan as deep lying playmaker.
- Boyle and Horgan will have to backtrack when we don't have possession.
- Mallan could pick up a lot of loose balls within shooting distance if we are attacking from wide, he could also follow up on Doidge's hold up play and maybe find shooting opportunities.

If Allan played deeper he will have a lot more of the ball and won't have two players snapping at his heels all the time, he can still get forward if space opens up for him of course. Despite being a playmaker he's not afraid to get stuck in (that tackle on Rossiter comes to mind).

That team would get absolutely destroyed. Mallan and Allan in or around CM and Horgan as a LWB?

[wookie70]

Not for me.

He's a lovely passer of the ball, but he's like a man short when there's battles to be won. He also rarely plays the full 90 so bringing him on after an hour or so when the opponents are getting tired makes perfect sense.

That is my view. In a midfield with Dylan who hardly gave the ball awy and SJM who was like a duracell bunny Allan fitted in. We don't have that so he is now a luxury imo. It is a pity as he has lots of attributes but his decision making is terrible and he gives the ball away so often even when not playing 1 in 100 balls. If he worked much, much harder when the opposition has the ball, often because he has gifted them with it, then I would probably rate him higher. However, he doesn't so as said is like a man short.

If we had Gogic and Docherty then we could maybe have that type of player in a central three in a 3-5-2 but we don't seem to be able to get the blend right to fit Scott in. He of course could improve on parts of his game and make a starting spot more likely.

[Unseen work]

I don’t think it’s be necessarily finding a formation to get Scott Allan in the team, more that Scott Allan needs to find the form to get himself into the team.

I remember the first 2 spells he would create a lot but he would also dominate teams and dictate the play with everything going through him. He would give the ball away on occasion due to the risk of pass but his passing, crossing and drilling was brilliant.

Lately he’s lost form and gives the ball away way too much, he always seems quite week and struggling to hold players off, something I thought he was good at before as he used his body well.

Its also not just giving the ball away that I have an issue with, it’s sometimes the speed he does it. We can be under pressure, win it back and he gets it and he immediately tries a World Cup pass, sometimes you need to know when to put your foot on the ball and give everyone a breather.

He’s undoubtably a very good player and one of the best in the country on his day and he will get that form back.

In terms of Hibs as a team, I think our strongest formation is a 352.

[B.H.F.C]

That is my view. In a midfield with Dylan who hardly gave the ball awy and SJM who was like a duracell bunny Allan fitted in. We don't have that so he is now a luxury imo. It is a pity as he has lots of attributes but his decision making is terrible and he gives the ball away so often even when not playing 1 in 100 balls. If he worked much, much harder when the opposition has the ball, often because he has gifted them with it, then I would probably rate him higher. However, he doesn't so as said is like a man short.

If we had Gogic and Docherty then we could maybe have that type of player in a central three in a 3-5-2 but we don't seem to be able to get the blend right to fit Scott in. He of course could improve on parts of his game and make a starting spot more likely.

I think Allan is hard done by with the insinuation that he needed McGinn and McGeough. He improved them in the second half of the 17/18 season as much as the other way round IMO. He was the missing part from the first half of the season and they were all good for each other.

I don’t think Allan is the problem here. He’s not much different with or without them for me. It’s what we don’t have that is the issue IMO. His form might not have been great but talking about him having terrible decision making and always giving the ball away is just not true.

Look at the Killie game. Their midfield had all the ball. They worked hard. Probably had high pass completion rates. But all they did was pass the ball from side to side without going anywhere. Is that all we want?

We don’t seem to have the right blend in midfield minus Scott Allan either.

[Mibbes Aye]

I think Allan is hard done by with the insinuation that he needed McGinn and McGeough. He improved them in the second half of the 17/18 season as much as the other way round IMO. He was the missing part from the first half of the season and they were all good for each other.

I don’t think Allan is the problem here. He’s not much different with or without them for me. It’s what we don’t have that is the issue IMO. His form might not have been great but talking about him having terrible decision making and always giving the ball away is just not true.

Look at the Killie game. Their midfield had all the ball. They worked hard. Probably had high pass completion rates. But all they did was pass the ball from side to side without going anywhere. Is that all we want?

We don’t seem to have the right blend in midfield minus Scott Allan either.

My recollection is that Allan’s best football with us came from interplay with Hanlon and Stevenson down the left. That could be recreated with Doig admittedly. But we are ten points from twelve and no goals conceded from open play. Allan has to work to justify a starting place. FTAOD, my impression of him has improved. I used to be critical of him for always looking for a Hollywood pass and he seems to have reined that in.