Three in the middle of the park

[HibeeHibernian4]

Non negotiable for me. Make it happen up at Perth or we’ll finally run into a team who can score.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Midfield is clearly the biggest problem. We are being outnumbered, which means we are struggling for possession and losing the chance to dictate the game. I agree he needs to change it.

What was our possession stat today?

[Tully]

Correct need another in midfield getting overrun to much

[we are hibs]

Can only really play 2 if you have 2 exeptionally good players who can do both sides of the game. We dont have that. If it means someone like Boyle or Horgan dropping out or one of the strikers being dropped then so be it.

[AugustaHibs]

Not sure what people see in hallberg, heart of a mouse and mobility like he’s 30 years older than he is.

[Unseen work]

We changed to a 451/433/4231 however you want to call it in the second half and it had an effect for 10 minutes or so when Allan and Hallberg came on but then we just went back to normal.

Ohara, Campbell and Turnbull are 3 very good players who have a bit of everything in them, bags of energy too.

[The Modfather]

Gogic is only part of the midfield rebuild, we still need another two IMO. Allan can be one of those 2 but the longer it goes he’s not back to his best on a consistent basis I worry.

Still need to move on any combination of Mallan, Hallberg, and to much lesser extents Newell and Allan and sign unquestionable upgrades. The Motherwell midfield, and balance, particularly Campbell (who i thought totally dominated) & Turnbull is a template we should look to replicate.

[PH91]

As great as gogic is when we dont have the ball he is equally as poor when we have it. When he plays we cant get good possession in the game. Playing him in a two only makes it worse.

When playing against the top teams we need 3 in the middle when he plays and 352 suits us best imo. Gets 2 strikers on the pitch, boyle wide (wingback is his best position for me, always best when starting deep and carrying the ball) and 3 in the middle. Also allows the right and left centre halfs to carry the ball out which will help when one of your central midfield players is uninterested in taking the ball.

[Sammy7nil]

IMHO JR has to decide to leave out Horgan or Nisbet.

We don’t have enough in midfield to play with four attackers.

[Smartie]

The diamond has its place too, so I wouldn't even rule out 4 from time to time.

[FilipinoHibs]

Midfield is clearly the biggest problem. We are being outnumbered, which means we are struggling for possession and losing the chance to dictate the game. I agree he needs to change it.

What was our possession stat today?

43/57 at home. Need to go with 3-5-2 with Allan on

[jonny]

I can understand JR wanting a back 4 tonight as Motherwell have good wingers and a 3 can leave the flanks exposed.
I fully expect a return to 352 or similar next week against St Johnstone.
Our worst performance of the season so far but we're still unbeaten and I think we all would've taken 10pts from 12 in our first 4 before the season started and be 8 in front of Motherwell and 10 in front of Aberdeen (albeit they now have 3 in hand).

[Brooster]

Not sure what people see in hallberg, heart of a mouse and mobility like he’s 30 years older than he is.

Agreed. He is nowhere near the level want to be at. We will lose the midfield every week if we play 2 up top and 2 wingers. Boyle was particularly bad today, I would've subbed him before Horgan.

[Unseen work]

I wonder if we will resort back to the diamond like Ross played against Aberdeen when we won 3-0.

.........Gogic....
Boyle..........Newell
.........Allan......

I know it’s still essentially a 442 but having Newell and Boyle narrow makes us a lot more compact. Boyle was brilliant that game going forward but also defensively as he won a lot of second balls, pressed the opposition well and won it back for us a lot and drove us forward.

I think we will sign McCrorie over the next couple of days which again changes things as he will be coming in as a starter. Him and Gogic have enough between them to dominate the middle of the park but my issue would be who is controlling the game from deep and dictating play. We miss Mallan being able to change the attack by pinging a 50 yard cross field pass to a winger and getting them in a 1 v 1 scenario - something I think is a reason Boyle has been quieter this first 4 games.

[Borderhibbie76]

IMHO JR has to decide to leave out Horgan or Nisbet.

We don’t have enough in midfield to play with four attackers.

Nailed it for me Sammy - either one of these 2 needs to sit it out, at least until we sign another 1 or maybe even 2 decent midfielders

[MacGruber]

IMHO JR has to decide to leave out Horgan or Nisbet.

We don’t have enough in midfield to play with four attackers.

That was true for last night. Depends on the opposition and their set up/strengths. From the team lines coming up before a ball was kicked it was clear we were set up wrong. 4 4 2 with 2 out and out strikers and wingers then you need most of the ball. Motherwell were setting up with 3 very good players in the middle against out two and consequently dominated. We were a man short in the middle and it killed us last night. Throw in Boyle being out of sorts and us being very poor when we did have the ball - so many aimless, 1st time punts and going long to Doidge.

Jack Ross got last night wrong combined with a number of players being very poor in possession and their distribution.

On the plus side Ross has been calling it right more often than not and the resilience and defensive shape of the team seen us take a point.

Need to learn that whilst we have good attacking players, can't play them all every time and someone has to be swapped out for balance and control of the game that lets us play more on the front foot.

Still, 10/12 pts and top of the league. Great start all considered

[blackpoolhibs]

I know it wont be popular here, but i'm still not convinced about Newell, although i will concede he could be better with another body in and around him.

I wish we'd got McGeouch back, we could do with someone of his ilk.

Saying all that, we have 10 points from 4 games, we are not doing a lot wrong.:thumbsup:

[flash]

Presuming we get McCrorie before next weekend i would go 352.
Rocky
McGinn
Porteous
Hanlon
Boyle
Gogic
McCrorie
Allan
Doig
Doidge
Nisbet.
We would have Horgan, Mallan and Newall to change things if necessary.

[B.H.F.C]

I know it wont be popular here, but i'm still not convinced about Newell, although i will concede he could be better with another body in and around him.

I wish we'd got McGeouch back, we could do with someone of his ilk.

Saying all that, we have 10 points from 4 games, we are not doing a lot wrong.:thumbsup:

Newell still has a lot to prove for me as well. Definitely a useful player to have but not good enough to play as part of a central two.

That’s two games on the trot we’ve had to totally change the shape of the team at half time when, really, we probably shouldn’t even have waited that long.

[LaMotta]

I know it wont be popular here, but i'm still not convinced about Newell, although i will concede he could be better with another body in and around him.

I wish we'd got McGeouch back, we could do with someone of his ilk.

Saying all that, we have 10 points from 4 games, we are not doing a lot wrong.:thumbsup:


I quite like Newell but his lack of energy means he will struggle to make an impact against better teams in the league imo.

In a game where we are having a lot of possession/pressure and corners he is worth having on the pitch.

Not quite sure how it pans out for him going forward:dunno:

[EVENTUALLY]

Presuming we get McCrorie before next weekend i would go 352.
Rocky
McGinn
Porteous
Hanlon
Boyle
Gogic
McCrorie
Allan
Doig
Doidge
Nisbet.
We would have Horgan, Mallan and Newall to change things if necessary.

352 is the way to go with this squad.

McGinn Porto Hanlon
Wright/Boyle Allan Gogic McCrorie Doig
Nisbet Doidge

There are alternatives to the personnel from Boyle to striker, Newell for Allan, experienced defenders like SDG, Darren and Lewis to stiffen things up if required, Gullan and Horgan to provide energy in the second half to assist tiring midfielders/strikers. Mallan also available to take over from Allan or Newall.

352 seems an obvious choice of formation. 442 creates a difficulty in blending the players into an effective unit....IMHO.

[Eyrie]

I'd agree with the thinking that we have the squad for 3-5-2.

Maybe that is why Ross wants McCrorie - use him and Gogic to graft in midfield with Allan/Newell/Mallan as the creator and they can cover when the wing backs Boyle/Doig/Wright/Horgan/Stevenson go forward.

[J-C]

Newell is one of many players we have who are just too inconsistent to any further with their careers and hence why they're at Hibs.

Newell plying his trade at Portsmouth/Rotherham in either lower Championship or league 1.
Horgan most of his career in Ireland, got a move to Preston but moves to us after 2 seasons with a few games and only 4 goals in that time.
Doidge, prolific scores in lower league 2, didn't do it at Bolton on loan and took an age to get off the mark with us, decent strike rate but not the best player you've seen and is a bit limited technique wise.
Jackson although he's gone now for personal reasons was a bench warmer for the majority of his time at Barnsley, couldn't even become a regular starter when they went to League 1.

We moved away from the players identified during the Stubbs era, Lennon and Heckinbottom brought in players they either knew or recommended to them, hopefully players like McCrorie, Nisbet etc will get us going in the right direction again.


I'd personally go with a 433, keeps us solid at the back, 3 in the middle and good attacking options.

Rocky

McGinn/Gray
Porteous/McGregor
Hanlon/Stirling
Doig/Stevenson

McCrorie/Mallan
Gogic/McCrorie
Allan/Newell

Boyle/Wright
Nisbet/Doidge
Horgan/Gullan

[JammyDoidger]

The fact we are now saying midfield is the biggest problem, shows how far we've came as a defensive unit, as we were hopeless last season in that regard. We are so close to being the third best team in scotland. If we aren't already. I stand by the fact that we will score in the majority of matches with the firepower we have, if we can continue to be solid we will have a great season. A bit fine tuning required and it's exciting times!

For me we need to find a way of getting doidge, nisbet, boyle and allan all on the park.

for me I would say our best side atm is..

Rocky

Mcginn
Porteous
Hanlon

Boyle
Newell
Gogic
Allan
Doig

Nisbet
Doidge.

[500miles]

We don't necessarily need 3 in the middle of the park. In tighter pitches, or slower running surfaces, Gogic can mop everything up as part of a 2.

Horgan has had a good start to the season, running at players and comfortable in tight spaces.

Scott Allan and Doidge still don't link up, so I don't know how we reconcile that. Doidge lives off scraps, crosses and loose balls, not running on to pin point passes.

I think we need someone who can turn defence into attack from deep. We're really good at smothering play, so it would be good if we had someone who could send our wingers or quicker striker on their way from our own half. Stubbs tried to get Allan to play that role at Rotherham and it didn't go well, but I dont know if that was down to Scott or the players he was trying to supply.

We've got various options and combinations to try out, and we seem to have got the solid foundations down, so I'm not overly concerned.