The Dreaded Coeficient Thread

[SJNB Hibby]

With Celtic due to start another Scottish Euro campaign, and with 5 spots open for Scottish clubs next season, I thought I'd have a look at where we are.
Presently 14th, 1.4 back of Denmark and 5 back of Austria, 0.5 ahead of the Czechs. The good news is that this season we dump that awful 2015-16 campaign where we picked up only 3 points, and Denmark got 5.5, the Czechs 7.3, and Austria 3.8. So once they update the table for starting this season, we will jump to 13th, see none of the teams behind us make up any ground, and be much closer to Ukraine in 9th, as they lose 9.8.
Decent run by the Scottish teams and we could settle into the top 10 as a Nation.
If you dont care about the coefficient, feel free to ignore this thread

[Diclonius]

Two CL places up for grabs this season, one EL and two ECL. Hopefully we can keep that up.

[CMurdoch]

We started in a highly embarrassing 26th place 2 seasons ago. 13th is just fine ensuring 5 European places for Scotland from next season, which should ensure Hibs European football every season.
Scotlands natural place is probably 12th. The top 7 nations are pretty much set in stone and Holland and Turkey should always manage to keep ahead of us but Ukraine, Belgium and Austria are fair game.
Scotlands goal this season is to replace the 3 coefficient points from 5 seasons ago. 7 would be acceptable, which would draw us up to the next pack and consolidate our top 15 status. A lot of Rangers and Cetics and thus Scotlands European success from next season will depend on effectively replacing Morelos and Eduard which will be almost impossible in the case of the later who i believe is top notch.

[Pretty Boy]

Ridding the European spots of diddy teams like Queen of the South, Gretna and more recently Hearts has definitely helped us start to rebuild the ranking.

[CentreLine]

I think Celtic have a tough task to qualify when the stupidity of one player means they will have played little competitive football before their qualifying rounds. Ditto Aberdeen and Motherwell are it setting the heather on fire. It could be that we are relying on the The Rangers to have run?

[jonny]

How high would we have to get to get another additional European spot? Or to better our entry levels?
I understand (to an extent) how the coefficients work but couldn't work out how to calculate the current number of positions in each competition allocated to each rank.

[HAZ2000]

3,4,5th place all get European spots this year?

[erin go bragh]

3,4,5th place all get European spots this year?

Yes ,unless a team outside the top five wins the Scottish cup .Then it would be the top four who would qualify for Europe.

[Speedy]

How high would we have to get to get another additional European spot? Or to better our entry levels?
I understand (to an extent) how the coefficients work but couldn't work out how to calculate the current number of positions in each competition allocated to each rank.

12th would get the cup winners straight into the Europa league groups.

This is where we are at the moment:
https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2020.html

12th is possible but would need to outperform Austria and Denmark (for starters) for the next couple of years. 10th is required for the league winners to get straight into the Champions League group stage.

[PatHead]

Yes ,unless a team outside the top five wins the Scottish cup .Then it would be the top four who would qualify for Europe.

Doubt we will finish outwith the top 5. 😁

[Eyrie]

If you dont care about the coefficient, feel free to ignore this thread

It's the co-efficient that decides how many places Scotland gets, so we should all care as our chances of European football are improved by a good co-efficient, both through having an extra place to aim for and by getting a better seeding.

[Is It On....]

Two CL places up for grabs this season, one EL and two ECL. Hopefully we can keep that up.

Never a better year to have a potential 40+ goal strike force. Third should be the minimum ambition 🙂

[jonny]

12th would get the cup winners straight into the Europa league groups.

This is where we are at the moment:
https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2020.html

12th is possible but would need to outperform Austria and Denmark (for starters) for the next couple of years. 10th is required for the league winners to get straight into the Champions League group stage.

Thanks mate. Can see we've actually outperformed the 3 countries above us in the past 2 seasons, unfortunately for the 3 before that they all outperformed us.
If we manage to stay consistent then no reason why we couldn't reach 12th in a couple of years (especially with an ever improving Rangers again). I think the top 10 is a stretch looking at the countries and accumulated points in there.
Getting a club or 2 into group stages in any competition gives so many opportunities to accumulate points.

[SJNB Hibby]

12th would get the cup winners straight into the Europa league groups.

This is where we are at the moment:
https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2020.html

12th is possible but would need to outperform Austria and Denmark (for starters) for the next couple of years. 10th is required for the league winners to get straight into the Champions League group stage.

France could close the gap on the top 4 if they get at least 1 in the Final, especially if Inter dont reach the EL final

[mayo hibee]

Where does the new Europa Conference fit into this? Does that offer additional European places or is it just that some Scottish teams would go into that rather than the Europa League?

[Sir David Gray]

Where does the new Europa Conference fit into this? Does that offer additional European places or is it just that some Scottish teams would go into that rather than the Europa League?

Yes the latter.

By default, 3rd and 4th in the table this season go into the Europa Conference League next season.

[danhibees1875]

How high would we have to get to get another additional European spot? Or to better our entry levels?
I understand (to an extent) how the coefficients work but couldn't work out how to calculate the current number of positions in each competition allocated to each rank.

The current ranking section a little down this page is helpful. :aok:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient

[Fergus52]

Yes ,unless a team outside the top five wins the Scottish cup .Then it would be the top four who would qualify for Europe.

Don't think this kicks in until next season, but might be wrong

[Clarence]

We started in a highly embarrassing 26th place 2 seasons ago. 13th is just fine ensuring 5 European places for Scotland from next season, which should ensure Hibs European football every season.
Scotlands natural place is probably 12th. The top 7 nations are pretty much set in stone and Holland and Turkey should always manage to keep ahead of us but Ukraine, Belgium and Austria are fair game.
Scotlands goal this season is to replace the 3 coefficient points from 5 seasons ago. 7 would be acceptable, which would draw us up to the next pack and consolidate our top 15 status. A lot of Rangers and Cetics and thus Scotlands European success from next season will depend on effectively replacing Morelos and Eduard which will be almost impossible in the case of the later who i believe is top notch.

Think Belgium are a fair bit ahead of us these days. It would take a major reversal in fortunes for us to leapfrog them.

[CMurdoch]

Think Belgium are a fair bit ahead of us these days. It would take a major reversal in fortunes for us to leapfrog them.

I suspect we will be ahead of them by the start of European competition next season.

We will start this seasons European club competitions 5.6 coefficient points behind Belgium BUT
12.5 of their points will be replaced in a years time and Scotland will have only 4.375 points replaced.
Therefore, if Scotland's teams perform as well as the Belgian teams in Europe this season we will start next seasons European campaign a few points ahead.

[Monts]

Can anyone work out why kilmarnock are ranked above us when we have more points?

And also West ham have the same points as us but ranked over 100 places higher.

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/#/yr/2020

[Green Man]

Can anyone work out why kilmarnock are ranked above us when we have more points?

And also West ham have the same points as us but ranked over 100 places higher.

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/#/yr/2020

I think Killie May be ranked above us because they got their points more recently. West Ham are ranked above us because their country coefficient is higher.

[SJNB Hibby]

I suspect we will be ahead of them by the start of European competition next season.

We will start this seasons European club competitions 5.6 coefficient points behind Belgium BUT
12.5 of their points will be replaced in a years time and Scotland will have only 4.375 points replaced.
Therefore, if Scotland's teams perform as well as the Belgian teams in Europe this season we will start next seasons European campaign a few points ahead.

If you look at the points by season, we were 10th 2 seasons back and 7th!!overall last season
We have the potential

[Speedy]

If you look at the points by season, we were 10th 2 seasons back and 7th!!overall last season
We have the potential

We do, but it'll get harder to maintain that because the total points will soon be divided by 5 teams rather than 4.

[SJNB Hibby]

We do, but it'll get harder to maintain that because the total points will soon be divided by 5 teams rather than 4.

We were 7th last season when Killie lost to that Dai Morris team from Rhondda!!!

[Ozyhibby]

Best thing that can happen is Celtic get knocked out champs league at last qualifying round and go into Europa. They can get points there. Also need Aberdeen and Motherwell to do the job.


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[Fergus52]

Best thing that can happen is Celtic get knocked out champs league at last qualifying round and go into Europa. They can get points there. Also need Aberdeen and Motherwell to do the job.


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Don't know if this is necessarily true, as qualifying for champions league group stage nets you bonus coefficient points, as well as wins and draws getting you double the points compared to the Europa groups.

Would probably depend on the draw in either competition, Celtic would be 3rd seed in the champions league groups now as well.

[Juniper Greens]

Don't know if this is necessarily true, as qualifying for champions league group stage nets you bonus coefficient points, as well as wins and draws getting you double the points compared to the Europa groups.

Would probably depend on the draw in either competition, Celtic would be 3rd seed in the champions league groups now as well.

The 4 bonus points is correct. But wins and draws give you exactly the same number of points

[Fergus52]

The 4 bonus points is correct. But wins and draws give you exactly the same number of points

Ah my bad, was getting mixed up with the points being halved for qualification matches.

[SonOfDavidFrancey]

Side issue/ what’s happening with the 2020 Scottish Cup winners? Are they going to get a Euro place or will there be no reward?

[Green Man]

Side issue/ what’s happening with the 2020 Scottish Cup winners? Are they going to get a Euro place or will there be no reward?

No Euro place, it was given to Aberdeen for this season’s Europa League.

[Not In The Know]

No Euro place, it was given to Aberdeen for this season’s Europa League.

is it just me or is anyone else starting to really dislike Aberdeen?

[SJNB Hibby]

No Euro place, it was given to Aberdeen for this season’s Europa League.

Cant see why it cant go to the 2020 Cup winners, rather than 5th place.

[CMurdoch]

Cant see why it cant go to the 2020 Cup winners, rather than 5th place.

Really?

[SJNB Hibby]

Really?

Yes, really. Wouldnt make any difference if Celtic or Aberdeen win it, but could see us qualified for Europe before the New Year

[jonny]

is it just me or is anyone else starting to really dislike Aberdeen?

I've had a real dislike of them for years. Not really sure why to be honest.
There are 4 club's in Scotland that I feel similar about - Rangers, Hearts, Celtic and Aberdeen (probably in that order as well).

[danhibees1875]

I've had a real dislike of them for years. Not really sure why to be honest.
There are 4 club's in Scotland that I feel similar about - Rangers, Hearts, Celtic and Aberdeen (probably in that order as well).

Same. I figure it's either because of the historic casual/fighting stuff and how that just translated into a bit more of a boisterous atmosphere at games between the 2 in more recent times, or because they generally win games and finish above us.

[PatHead]

Same. I figure it's either because of the historic casual/fighting stuff and how that just translated into a bit more of a boisterous atmosphere at games between the 2 in more recent times, or because they generally win games and finish above us.

I developed a dislike for them when Willie Miller used to referee matches. They used every trick in the book. Always hope it snows up there every day.

[CMurdoch]

Yes, really. Wouldnt make any difference if Celtic or Aberdeen win it, but could see us qualified for Europe before the New Year

The Scottish teams kick off in the European tournament this month and the 2020 Scottish Cup semi finals are still to be played.
Hibs will be in Europe next season as a result of finishing in the top 5 unless a team outwith that wins the cup, which won't happen.

[CMurdoch]

I've had a real dislike of them for years. Not really sure why to be honest.
There are 4 club's in Scotland that I feel similar about - Rangers, Hearts, Celtic and Aberdeen (probably in that order as well).

So you don't mind the teams that are smaller than us but dislike our rivals :greengrin

[jonny]

So you don't mind the teams that are smaller than us but dislike our rivals :greengrin

LoL yeah, probably a fair summary. I don't really mind Motherwell or Killie though (even despite their sectarian element) and they've probably been closer rivals than Aberdeen in recent years.
I've had phases of disliking other clubs, Falkirk in particular for one. I think that's because I stayed in Fife for a while and developed a bit of a soft spot for Dunfermline - the whole Norrie McCathie song and some of the behaviour I seen from their fans in Dunfermline left a sour taste.

[SJNB Hibby]

So having a look at the standings after the first couple of rounds. Right now we're 13th ahead of Cyprus and Denmark. So far we've picked up 1.25 points, and if our goal is always to do better than the season thats going to be deleted(2016-17) we need more than 4.375. 2 of the teams still in have a prospective tough match ahead, but 2 teams with decent draws in the Group stages should do us well.
Turkey are in 11th, but will lose 9+ points....we've got the least points to lose of the top 15 teams, so we should be able to maintain 5 teams in Europe for a few seasons, at least until last seasons points total disappears

[CMurdoch]

So having a look at the standings after the first couple of rounds. Right now we're 13th ahead of Cyprus and Denmark. So far we've picked up 1.25 points, and if our goal is always to do better than the season thats going to be deleted(2016-17) we need more than 4.375. 2 of the teams still in have a prospective tough match ahead, but 2 teams with decent draws in the Group stages should do us well.
Turkey are in 11th, but will lose 9+ points....we've got the least points to lose of the top 15 teams, so we should be able to maintain 5 teams in Europe for a few seasons, at least until last seasons points total disappears

6.5 points each season would keep Scotland comfortably in the top 15 countries and ensure 5 European places each season is retained, certainly in the medium term. It's been a long time climb to get back after Rangers demise.

This is our last season with 4 teams representing Scotland and any points won from next season will therefore be divided by 5 instead of 4 therefore it is more important than before that Scottish representatives, outside the Glasgow two, don't totally **** the bed in the preliminary rounds against teams they should beat. Aberdeen, Hibs and one other team will have that responsibility next season.

I reckon Aberdeen and Hibs will do okay. Both are getting back to their strongest again after their rebuilds. Next summer should see us finish ours, post Lennon & Heckenbottom.

[SJNB Hibby]

Did well this week, but all 4 teams away next week. Celtic should go thru(Wonder if Uefa will switch it what with Rigas roof collapse), Motherwell have a chance but Rangers and the Dons will need a small miracle methinks

[JohnM1875]

Did well this week, but all 4 teams away next week. Celtic should go thru(Wonder if Uefa will switch it what with Rigas roof collapse), Motherwell have a chance but Rangers and the Dons will need a small miracle methinks

Rangers are playing Willem II are they not? Away from home, fair enough. But can see them getting a result there no problem. As much as I hate them!

[Since90+2]

Did well this week, but all 4 teams away next week. Celtic should go thru(Wonder if Uefa will switch it what with Rigas roof collapse), Motherwell have a chance but Rangers and the Dons will need a small miracle methinks

Rangers will be favourites to win that game.

[Vault Boy]

Rangers are playing Willem II are they not? Away from home, fair enough. But can see them getting a result there no problem. As much as I hate them!

Hibs beat them this year :greengrin

[CMurdoch]

Did well this week, but all 4 teams away next week. Celtic should go thru(Wonder if Uefa will switch it what with Rigas roof collapse), Motherwell have a chance but Rangers and the Dons will need a small miracle methinks

2.250 points for Scotland already this season.
A third of the way to the another decent number.
Comfortably 13th and chasing the Ukraine (only half a point behind).

Got to be looking at the old firm both winning next week but Motherwell and Aberdeen will be up against it.
Coincidently, Motherwell's second half performance was absolutely appalling last night. Tactically inept.

[Onceinawhile]

Who have Motherwell got?

[Moulin Yarns]

Who have Motherwell got?

Draw on now.

Away to Hapoel Beer Sheva this week then another play off which is the draw today.

[Hibernian Verse]

Draw on now.

Motherwell have Hapoel Be'er Sheeva. The draw on now is for the last qualifying round I believe.

[Moulin Yarns]

Celtc away if they beat Riga.

[davhibby]

Sporting have a lot of players that have Covid so there’s a possibility Aberdeen might get a bye

[Monts]

Am I right in thinking the ties are still only over one game?

If so, has the coefficient system needed to change? before you had a chance to win 2 games per round, and now its only 1. Do you get double points now? Or were points previously only given over a tie, rather than per game?

[nonshinyfinish]

Am I right in thinking the ties are still only over one game?

If so, has the coefficient system needed to change? before you had a chance to win 2 games per round, and now its only 1. Do you get double points now? Or were points previously only given over a tie, rather than per game?

For qualifying rounds, the points are based on progressing or not rather than the results of individual legs. In the group stages you get a minimum number of points just for being there plus extra points based on results.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Men's_Club_coefficient

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/53958861?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5f64a6fcb3b2c202d361872b%26Potential%2 0home%20tie%20for%20Motherwell%262020-09-18T12%3A24%3A29.270Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:88492962-17ff-4aa2-9ee0-2652538c9ac9&pinned_post_asset_id=5f64a6fcb3b2c202d361872b&pinned_post_type=share

Motherwell at home if they get through.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/53958861?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5f64a6fcb3b2c202d361872b%26Potential%2 0home%20tie%20for%20Motherwell%262020-09-18T12%3A24%3A29.270Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:88492962-17ff-4aa2-9ee0-2652538c9ac9&pinned_post_asset_id=5f64a6fcb3b2c202d361872b&pinned_post_type=share

Motherwell at home if they get through.


Ditto Aberdeen

[Moulin Yarns]

All Scottish teams* are at home 1st October if they win this week.

*Except Celtc.

[JohnM1875]

If Aberdeen can get past a depleted Sporting they are in with a great shout of reaching the group stages. Annoying.

[Monts]

Aberdeen and Motherwell out.

The Rangers and Celtic still going.

[Fergus52]

Even after Motherwell and Aberdeen's defeats last night things are still looking good on the coefficient front.

Right behind Turkey which makes Rangers Galatassary next week even more interesting.

If the league can stay at that ranking it makes it even more important that hibs come third at some poing over the next couple of seasons, as that would guarantee us getting into the groups of either the Europa or Europa Conference.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eita3TgWoAErCBV?format=jpg&name=medium

[CMurdoch]

2.250 points for Scotland already this season.
A third of the way to the another decent number.
Comfortably 13th and chasing the Ukraine (only half a point behind).

Got to be looking at the old firm both winning next week but Motherwell and Aberdeen will be up against it.
Coincidently, Motherwell's second half performance was absolutely appalling last night. Tactically inept.

Scotland up to 12th and little more than half a point behind Turkey.
Celtic have a relatively easy draw compared to Rangers next week although they are playing away from home. If both can get through Scotland will be on for another healthy points total and heading for some automatic group places in the years that follow.
The top 6 countries are set in stone but Scotland could climb another couple of places in a years time when Hibs get their chance to contribute.
It would be good for the Scottish game to be recognised as one of the top 10 leagues in Europe.

[SJNB Hibby]

Gonna be good viewing in the morning. Will be close to having matched the 2016-17 total, and a good run for the Old **** could eliminate the 2017-18 total, that we were part of. Could be a good run of years in Europe for the Hibees, and maybe not having to start in the middle of June, which I think is part of the reason Scottish clubs have suffered

[CMurdoch]

Gonna be good viewing in the morning. Will be close to having matched the 2016-17 total, and a good run for the Old **** could eliminate the 2017-18 total, that we were part of. Could be a good run of years in Europe for the Hibees, and maybe not having to start in the middle of June, which I think is part of the reason Scottish clubs have suffered

Scotland are equal top country this season along with Hungary and Israel on 4 points each.
We now have 28.875 points and Turkey and Ukraine are a baw hair ahead of us on 28.900 and 29.100 respectively and will almost certainly overtake both on the next European match night which will see Scotland as 11th best European league.
Brilliant considering we were a horrific and unacceptable 26th a couple of years ago.

[PatHead]

Scotland are equal top country this season along with Hungary on 4 points each.
We now have 28.875 points and Turkey and Ukraine are a baw hair ahead of us on 28.900 and 29.100 respectively and will almost certainly overtake both on the next European match night which will see Scotland as 11th best European league.
Brilliant considering we were a horrific and unacceptable 26th a couple of years ago.

But BBC Sport sound say our game is crap.

[CMurdoch]

But BBC Sport sound say our game is crap.

There are no countries leagues higher than Scotland in the UEFA coefficient that have a smaller population.
Next match day our league will move above the leagues of Turkey and the Ukraine. Turkey has a population of 82 million people and Ukraine 42 million.
For a tiny country of 5.5 million people our league is good and our supporters the most supportive in Europe.

[neil7908]

There are no countries leagues higher than Scotland in the UEFA coefficient that have a smaller population.
Next match day our league will move above the leagues of Turkey and the Ukraine. Turkey has a population of 82 million people and Ukraine 42 million.
For a tiny country of 5.5 million people our league is good and our supporters the most supportive in Europe.

I think the problem here is that I'm not sure the league is good - it's Celtic and Rangers picking up all the points.

When was the last time anyone outwith those two teams got near the group stages?

[Since452]

Dundalk qualify for the group stage 2nd season in a row. No reason non Glasgow bigots can't do it.

[scoopyboy]

There are no countries leagues higher than Scotland in the UEFA coefficient that have a smaller population.
Next match day our league will move above the leagues of Turkey and the Ukraine. Turkey has a population of 82 million people and Ukraine 42 million.
For a tiny country of 5.5 million people our league is good and our supporters the most supportive in Europe.

I hope you are right CM but I don't think it is guaranteed by any manner of means.

Turkey still have two teams left in, one in the CL group and one in the EL. Neither team has kicked a ball yet as they are direct entries.

Ukraine have two teams in the CL and one in the EL.

The coefficient is getting better without doubt but to get much higher now will be tough.

[hibee-boys]

The Old Firm are that far ahead of us that i'm prepared to accept them being successful in Europe as I see it benefitting us in the longer term. If their performances give us a better co-efficient thus greater chance of more European night at Easter Road i'm prepared to stomach it for now. Goal has to be for us to reach Europa league stage ourselves at some point which would provide us with revenue to challenge them better domestically.

[Speedy]

I hope you are right CM but I don't think it is guaranteed by any manner of means.

Turkey still have two teams left in, one in the CL group and one in the EL. Neither team has kicked a ball yet as they are direct entries.

Ukraine have two teams in the CL and one in the EL.

The coefficient is getting better without doubt but to get much higher now will be tough.

Turkey, Belgium and Austria all did really well in 16/17. That drops off soon so there's a good chance of going above them - we're 8th as it stands if you exclude 16/17.

Direct entry to Champions league and Europa league is looking very possible in the near future. Challenge will be keeping the average up with another club in Europe.

[Speedy]

The Old Firm are that far ahead of us that i'm prepared to accept them being successful in Europe as I see it benefitting us in the longer term. If their performances give us a better co-efficient thus greater chance of more European night at Easter Road i'm prepared to stomach it for now. Goal has to be for us to reach Europa league stage ourselves at some point which would provide us with revenue to challenge them better domestically.

Agreed

[Sean1875]

The Old Firm are that far ahead of us that i'm prepared to accept them being successful in Europe as I see it benefitting us in the longer term. If their performances give us a better co-efficient thus greater chance of more European night at Easter Road i'm prepared to stomach it for now. Goal has to be for us to reach Europa league stage ourselves at some point which would provide us with revenue to challenge them better domestically.

Hate to admit it but thats kind of where i'm at too. Still not and never will be at the stage of actively wanting them to win mind you, but not going to be too disappointed when they do.

[Not In The Know]

Turkey, Belgium and Austria all did really well in 16/17. That drops off soon so there's a good chance of going above them - we're 8th as it stands if you exclude 16/17.

Direct entry to Champions league and Europa league is looking very possible in the near future. Challenge will be keeping the average up with another club in Europe.

Cool, so will this mean teams finishing well in the league this year (hopefully us) will benefit if we qualify for Europe?

[scoopyboy]

Cool, so will this mean teams finishing well in the league this year (hopefully us) will benefit if we qualify for Europe?

Yes.

[SJNB Hibby]

I hope you are right CM but I don't think it is guaranteed by any manner of means.

Turkey still have two teams left in, one in the CL group and one in the EL. Neither team has kicked a ball yet as they are direct entries.

Ukraine have two teams in the CL and one in the EL.

The coefficient is getting better without doubt but to get much higher now will be tough.

I think its best, at this stage, to focus on year over year. Next year 2016-17 points disappear, and thats 4.375 points---we've already got 4 points, and the old firm will surely accumulate enough points to beat that, then we're looking at only 4 points from 2017-208.
Last season may have been about the best we can do, but if we could average 7 points a season we'd be challenging the top 10, but getting some automatic qualification for the Group stages is the key to long term benefit.

Another good sign is how well the countries behind us are doing. We are sitting , a fraction behind Ukraine & Turkey, but the closest country behind us with MORE teams left in competition is the Greeks 18th, and 5 points back. The Czechs are 20th with 3 teams left, and thats it. The 4 teams immediately below us have only one team left each

[scoopyboy]

I think its best, at this stage, to focus on year over year. Next year 2016-17 points disappear, and thats 4.375 points---we've already got 4 points, and the old firm will surely accumulate enough points to beat that, then we're looking at only 4 points from 2017-208.
Last season may have been about the best we can do, but if we could average 7 points a season we'd be challenging the top 10, but getting some automatic qualification for the Group stages is the key to long term benefit.

Another good sign is how well the countries behind us are doing. We are sitting , a fraction behind Ukraine & Turkey, but the closest country behind us with MORE teams left in competition is the Greeks 18th, and 5 points back. The Czechs are 20th with 3 teams left, and thats it. The 4 teams immediately below us have only one team left each

Agreed and the Danes are in a really hard group in the Champions League where they will be lucky to pick up anything.

[mayo hibee]

Read elsewhere that third place in the league (or cup winner if outside the top three) is guaranteed group stage European football next season in the new Europa Conference at a minimum. If that's correct we really need to get the midfield sorted this week and have a good go at third this season.

[Sylar]

Mixed back for the two Scottish clubs left:

Celtic
Sparta Prague
AC Milan
Lille

Benfica
Standard Liege
Rangers
Lech Poznan

[bigwheel]

Mixed back for the two Scottish clubs left:

Celtic
Sparta Prague
AC Milan
Lille

Benfica
Standard Liege
Rangers
Lech Poznan


could see them both progress from those groups. (assuming thats what this is )

[SJNB Hibby]

could see them both progress from those groups. (assuming thats what this is )

Arsenal have to be the jammiest team in world football:confused:

[SJNB Hibby]

Mixed back for the two Scottish clubs left:

Celtic
Sparta Prague
AC Milan
Lille

Benfica
Standard Liege
Rangers
Lech Poznan

They're strong groups with no weak links, but AC is the only team i'd put any money on right now to progress, although they were lucky to actually progress last night

[Since90+2]

Mixed back for the two Scottish clubs left:

Celtic
Sparta Prague
AC Milan
Lille

Benfica
Standard Liege
Rangers
Lech Poznan

Despite being top seeds Celtic have a tougher group than Rangers who were in Pot 3.

[Magpie]

Mixed back for the two Scottish clubs left:

Celtic
Sparta Prague
AC Milan
Lille

Benfica
Standard Liege
Rangers
Lech Poznan

Hard group for Celtic. Lille probably the best team from pot 4.

[Green Man]

On ranking points, Celtic got the second best team from each pot. Very tough draw for them.

[CMurdoch]

On ranking points, Celtic got the second best team from each pot. Very tough draw for them.

Looks tough, 2 from 3
Rangers group looks okay, so a really good bet to finish in the top 2

[CMurdoch]

Dundalk qualify for the group stage 2nd season in a row. No reason non Glasgow bigots can't do it.

The draw seems to be kinder to the teams that get launched out of the Champions League qualifiers.
Dundalk beat a team from the Faroes last night and Rangers by comparison had to beat Willem II followed by Galatasaray. Unfortunately the path for Hibs, Aberdeen etc would be the Rangers one, which most times will be a tough ask.
What will be interesting is how the teams in each country are affected financially by Covid in the years to come.

[scoopyboy]

The draw seems to be kinder to the teams that get launched out of the Champions League qualifiers.
Dundalk beat a team from the Faroes last night and Rangers by comparison had to beat Willem II followed by Galatasaray. Unfortunately the path for Hibs, Aberdeen etc would be the Rangers one, which most times will be a tough ask.
What will be interesting is how the teams in each country are affected financially by Covid in the years to come.

There are two routes into the group stages.

Dundalk and Celtic were in the Champions path whereas Rangers, Aberdeen and Motherwell were in the ordinary route.

The Champions League has a similar path, ie Celtic couldn't get any of the really hard teams, only champions of other countries that didn't get direct entry.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i think sevco will progress, i wouldn't put money on sellick getting through though

[SJNB Hibby]

The draw seems to be kinder to the teams that get launched out of the Champions League qualifiers.
Dundalk beat a team from the Faroes last night and Rangers by comparison had to beat Willem II followed by Galatasaray. Unfortunately the path for Hibs, Aberdeen etc would be the Rangers one, which most times will be a tough ask.
What will be interesting is how the teams in each country are affected financially by Covid in the years to come.
Its easier to get into the group stages by falling out of the ECL qualifiers, and the later the better, but for the group stages they're seeded. Just the luck of the draw. Luxembourg teams have made it in the past.
Celtic were unlucky but they have the ability to get out of the group, as fo Rangers
I reckon if they can both get out of their groups we will be in the top 10 for 22-23, and likely top 7-8 for 23-24.
But with covid, all football will be suspended just as Hibs prepare to enter the ECL at the group stages

[oneone73]

Its easier to get into the group stages by falling out of the ECL qualifiers, and the later the better, but for the group stages they're seeded. Just the luck of the draw. Luxembourg teams have made it in the past.
Crltic were unlucky but they have the ability to get out of ghe gtoip, as fo Rangers
I reckon if they can both get out of their groups we will be in the top 10 for 22-23, and likely top 7-8 for 23-24.
But with vivid, all football will be suspended just as Hibs prepare to enter the ECL at the group stages

Epic predictive text in this 😁

[mayo hibee]

Massively easier for teams in the Champions Path. Dundalk beat teams from Andorra, Transnistria and the Faroes to qualify. It was a particularly lucky draw but would have been impossible for them in the main path. They haven't even been going that well in the league of Ireland - they're down in mid table about 20 points behind the leaders. Minimum earnings of £3m for them now which is huge.

[Wakeyhibee]

Whilst Scotland is punching above its weight in the European standings and an extra place is welcome. It creates 2 disadvantages of you collectively not doing so well.

The points gained in next season will now be divided by 5 and not 4

Seedlings who go in at a higher level ie 3rd quality round, could crash out at the first time of asking against higher opposition. That would mean less chance of picking up points.

[davhibby]

Whilst Scotland is punching above its weight in the European standings and an extra place is welcome. It creates 2 disadvantages of you collectively not doing so well.

The points gained in next season will now be divided by 5 and not 4

Seedlings who go in at a higher level ie 3rd quality round, could crash out at the first time of asking against higher opposition. That would mean less chance of picking up points.

With the new 3rd comp coming in next season then us and Aberdeen at least should be aiming for the groups of that

[mayo hibee]

There's potentially European football for the teams that finish fourth and fifth this season but it will still be very difficult for either of those two teams to reach the group stages. The big opportunity is for the team that finishes third, potentially guaranteed group stage European football. Hopefully that might be us but Aberdeen will be hard to overcome for third.

[SJNB Hibby]

Well love 'em, or, yes, hate 'em, but Rangers have propelled us up 2 places to 12th, only a fraction of a point behind Ukraine. We've now eclipsed 2016-2017, and when you take away everybodys points from that season, we're sitting 8th.
This season we're 3rd, behind England in 2nd and......Israel 1st. Looks like you need to average 8 points a season to get one of the automatic ECL places, although 2 other qualifiers go in late.

[CMurdoch]

Well love 'em, or, yes, hate 'em, but Rangers have propelled us up 2 places to 12th, only a fraction of a point behind Ukraine. We've now eclipsed 2016-2017, and when you take away everybodys points from that season, we're sitting 8th.
This season we're 3rd, behind England in 2nd and......Israel 1st. Looks like you need to average 8 points a season to get one of the automatic ECL places, although 2 other qualifiers go in late.

We have 2 more seasons of easy improvement in our coefficient although there will be a slight slow down as we increase to 5 teams next season which will make each positive result worth less. Hopefully Aberdeen and Hibs can make a decent fist of things and the 5th team don't lose to total duffers.
A draw last night for Celtic would have taken us above Ukraine who benefitted this week from their best team beating Real Madrid. Sadly Lennon made an erse of choosing and setting up his team in the 1st half and the game was gone.

[Keith_M]

As I checked the scores from last night and saw that The Rangers had won yet again, my first thought was, "Woohoo! Our co-efficient has got even better.".

[HibbyScott]

We have 2 more seasons of easy improvement in our coefficient although there will be a slight slow down as we increase to 5 teams next season which will make each positive result worth less. Hopefully Aberdeen and Hibs can make a decent fist of things and the 5th team don't lose to total duffers.
A draw last night for Celtic would have taken us above Ukraine who benefitted this week from their best team beating Real Madrid. Sadly Lennon made an erse of choosing and setting up his team in the 1st half and the game was gone.

Surely not? :confused::greengrin

[CMurdoch]

As I checked the scores from last night and saw that The Rangers had won yet again, my first thought was, "Woohoo! Our co-efficient has got even better.".

It's important for the standing of the Scottish League in Europe and indeed the World.
When next season starts the Scottish League will be Top 10 in the UEFA coefficient ahead of the much heralded Belgians.
A good coefficient almost guarantees European football every year for Hibs in the medium term. It probably makes it easier for us to persuade foreign players to come to Hibs & Scotland to develop their career etc. and probably makes it easier to attract investors and sponsors to Hibs and Scottish football.

[CMurdoch]

Surely not? :confused::greengrin

I knew someone would pick up on that :greengrin

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54724308

[Speedy]

Not quite sure what my stance on the new conference league is yet.

[Billy Whizz]

Not quite sure what my stance on the new conference league is yet.

At our stage, you’d think the 2nd tier Europa league, might suit Hibs

[GRA]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54724308

The ugly sisters will get the top two spots but this reads as if there will be three other spots up for grabs. One for winning the SC and two others in this new Europa League format for 3rd and 4th (definitely achievable this season :thumbsup:). But still a couple of unanswered questions here:

1) Do the winners of the rescheduled 2019-20 SC get a place in Europe as well? Or just winners of the 2020-21 SC?
2) What happens to the SC winners place if they have already qualified for Europe? Would that go to 5th in the league?

[scoopyboy]

The ugly sisters will get the top two spots but this reads as if there will be three other spots up for grabs. One for winning the SC and two others in this new Europa League format for 3rd and 4th (definitely achievable this season :thumbsup:). But still a couple of unanswered questions here:

1) Do the winners of the rescheduled 2019-20 SC get a place in Europe as well? Or just winners of the 2020-21 SC?
2) What happens to the SC winners place if they have already qualified for Europe? Would that go to 5th in the league?

1) No
2) No, it would go to 3rd place.

[nonshinyfinish]

The ugly sisters will get the top two spots but this reads as if there will be three other spots up for grabs. One for winning the SC and two others in this new Europa League format for 3rd and 4th (definitely achievable this season :thumbsup:). But still a couple of unanswered questions here:

1) Do the winners of the rescheduled 2019-20 SC get a place in Europe as well? Or just winners of the 2020-21 SC?

No, that European place already went to 4th place from last season (Aberdeen).


2) What happens to the SC winners place if they have already qualified for Europe? Would that go to 5th in the league?

I think the SC place would go to 3rd in the league and the two "lesser" European places would move down to 4th/5th.

[Speedy]

At our stage, you’d think the 2nd tier Europa league, might suit Hibs

Possibly. But I believe on the current system we would've been close to cup winner (or likely 3rd place) getting straight into the Europa League group stage.

Which is a shame for us/Aberdeen to miss out on.

Can't help but think the new format is the suit the bigger teams rather than clubs like us.

[Keith_M]

It's important for the standing of the Scottish League in Europe and indeed the World.
When next season starts the Scottish League will be Top 10 in the UEFA coefficient ahead of the much heralded Belgians.
A good coefficient almost guarantees European football every year for Hibs in the medium term. It probably makes it easier for us to persuade foreign players to come to Hibs & Scotland to develop their career etc. and probably makes it easier to attract investors and sponsors to Hibs and Scottish football.


But The Rangers and Celtc progressing in Europe means they make even more money, and increases the gap between the top two and the rest of the clubs even further.


Plus I think you're overplaying how much it benefits the rest of the clubs. We'll basically have a couple of games in the early qualifying rounds against minor teams every couple of seasons and, as usual, get put out as soon as we meet the first half decent side.

[Speedy]

Possibly. But I believe on the current system we would've been close to cup winner (or likely 3rd place) getting straight into the Europa League group stage.

Which is a shame for us/Aberdeen to miss out on.

Can't help but think the new format is the suit the bigger teams rather than clubs like us.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/files/2021-24-uefa-club-competitions-scheme.png

Interesting link.

To me it looks designed to a) make the Europa League a more elite competition b) keep clubs from the bigger leagues in Europe for longer c) keep champions from smaller leagues in Europe for longer

[Greenbeard]

No, that European place already went to 4th place from last season (Aberdeen).



I think the SC place would go to 3rd in the league and the two "lesser" European places would move down to 4th/5th.
Must be Shirley. Can't see a scenario whereby Scotland are granted five places in Europe but drop to four places just cos the Cup winners have already qualified through the league.
Or are they going back to the Cup runners-up getting that place given that the Cup winners have been given a higher ranking than 3rd/4th in the league? Hope not.

[CMurdoch]

But The Rangers and Celtc progressing in Europe means they make even more money, and increases the gap between the top two and the rest of the clubs even further.


Plus I think you're overplaying how much it benefits the rest of the clubs. We'll basically have a couple of games in the early qualifying rounds against minor teams every couple of seasons and, as usual, get put out as soon as we meet the first half decent side.

The gap between the old firm and the rest is already unbridgeable so that's not really an issue. Perhaps they will throw the other Scottish teams a few extra crumbs.

On the other point Hibs should get European football most seasons from now on with the addition of the 5th place and most seasons it will be in the third tournament which might allow us to enjoy it for an extra couple of rounds before we meet someone decent and get turfed out. Sadly for us fans, it will take a long time for the air industry to get back to pre covid levels and accordingly air travel will be expensive in the meantime which will stop many of us from going to the away games.

[Seveno]

The gap between the old firm and the rest is already unbridgeable so that's not really an issue. Perhaps they will throw the other Scottish teams a few extra crumbs.

On the other point Hibs should get European football most seasons from now on with the addition of the 5th place and most seasons it will be in the third tournament which might allow us to enjoy it for an extra couple of rounds before we meet someone decent and get turfed out. Sadly for us fans, it will take a long time for the air industry to get back to pre covid levels and accordingly air travel will be expensive in the meantime which will stop many of us from going to the away games.

Air travel may be cheaper in an attempt to entice customers back. It might be cheaper for charter flights given that so many planes are lying around unused.

[CMurdoch]

Air travel may be cheaper in an attempt to entice customers back. It might be cheaper for charter flights given that so many planes are lying around unused.

I like your 2nd point about the charter flights due to lots of spare capacity.
It's a nice thought to think about going away to watch Hibs.
Hopefully by the time next season starts everyone is vaccined up and it's a runner.

[Wakeyhibee]

But The Rangers and Celtc progressing in Europe means they make even more money, and increases the gap between the top two and the rest of the clubs even further.


Plus I think you're overplaying how much it benefits the rest of the clubs. We'll basically have a couple of games in the early qualifying rounds against minor teams every couple of seasons and, as usual, get put out as soon as we meet the first half decent side.

I think I read Scotland getting up from 12th (current) to 11th place gives us a Europa League group stage place.

I dont think any club coming 3rd would sniff at that.

[ancient hibee]

I think I read Scotland getting up from 12th (current) to 11th place gives us a Europa League group stage place.

I dont think any club coming 3rd would sniff at that.
It doesn’t.It gives a place in one of the qualifying rounds.

[Wakeyhibee]

It doesn’t.It gives a place in one of the qualifying rounds.

Paper at work must have misreported it, it was the Express!!. Just checked Ukraine (ranked 9th) and Turkey (ranked 11th) last year 2019/20 both had 3rd place as automatic to group stage for this year. Maybe that's where they got it from.

[Speedy]

Paper at work must have misreported it, it was the Express!!. Just checked Ukraine (ranked 9th) and Turkey (ranked 11th) last year 2019/20 both had 3rd place as automatic to group stage for this year. Maybe that's where they got it from.

If I've interpreted correctly then that is the case under the current set up. We've effectively lost out on that in the new set up.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201029/9855d5a78f02f81c01453286d0476c87.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oneone73]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201029/9855d5a78f02f81c01453286d0476c87.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just in time for us.

[CMurdoch]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201029/9855d5a78f02f81c01453286d0476c87.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, the remaining 3 Ukraine teams had 2 draws this week which allowed Scotland to move ahead of them into 11th position.
Can't see us catching any other countries this season.
However, when next season starts Scotland could find itself jumped up another few places with season 2016/17 points dropping off.

[cabbageandribs1875]

neil lennons trying to destroy our co-efficient this season :(

[Keith_M]

So, The Rangers have put another notch on the Co-Efficient bedpost.

Celtc, meanwhile, are hiding in the wardrobe after Lilly's husband came home early and ruined the evening.

[davhibby]

Paper at work must have misreported it, it was the Express!!. Just checked Ukraine (ranked 9th) and Turkey (ranked 11th) last year 2019/20 both had 3rd place as automatic to group stage for this year. Maybe that's where they got it from.

It would’ve done for this year but with the new competition coming in next season, the EL is getting more exclusive to the big leagues. However 12th spot that we’re in now would mean that 3rd or the cup winner next season would be in the playoff round of the EL so they’d be guaranteed group stage football

[SJNB Hibby]

So the big 6 or 7 took pretty much all the coefficient points this week in the ECL. Little chance of moving higher, so just a matter of consolidation for the OF to help Hibs future European exploits.
FWIW, as it stands right now, Scotland would be a smidgen behind Austria, in 9th place starting next season, and a comfortable 7th starting 2022-23

[CMurdoch]

So the big 6 or 7 took pretty much all the coefficient points this week in the ECL. Little chance of moving higher, so just a matter of consolidation for the OF to help Hibs future European exploits.
FWIW, as it stands right now, Scotland would be a smidgen behind Austria, in 9th place starting next season, and a comfortable 7th starting 2022-23

The top 6 countries are set in stone.
Of those above the SPL who currently sit 11th, Belgium will be taking a hefty drop in August before popping up again the following season, Russia a hefty drop the year after and Austria dropping a little in the same time frame.
Only possible issue for Scotland is that all points gained by the Old Firm will be divided by 5 next season instead of 4. Hopefully Hibs, Aberdeen and our 5th qualifying team can at least beat any duffers they face in the early rounds.
So long as the SPL can hold it's position in the top 15 they will continue to have 5 European places which should guarantee Hibs participation most seasons.

[SJNB Hibby]

Celtic have decided to give up helping out the coefficient

[CMurdoch]

Celtic have decided to give up helping out the coefficient

1 point from 4 games and knocked out is beyond pathetic

Lennon must be about done

[Keith_M]

Celtic have decided to give up helping out the coefficient


I was devastated when I saw last night's final scores and lit a wee candle to 'the coefficient'

[Chuck Rhoades]

How do things look now after one win and one loss last night? Rangers have qualified too.

[Juniper Greens]

How do things look now after one win and one loss last night? Rangers have qualified too.

Edged us back above Ukraine. Will likely make a huge difference who finishes higher out of us two. They are likely to have two teams in the EL last 32. One result better than us and they go back above us

[SJNB Hibby]

Edged us back above Ukraine. Will likely make a huge difference who finishes higher out of us two. They are likely to have two teams in the EL last 32. One result better than us and they go back above us

11th through 13th, us Ukraine & Turkey, is very close, but then there's a big gap to 14th. Currently in 10th for the start of next season, and 8th for 22-23, when we have to start protecting our better seasons coefficient points.

[CMurdoch]

11th through 13th, us Ukraine & Turkey, is very close, but then there's a big gap to 14th. Currently in 10th for the start of next season, and 8th for 22-23, when we have to start protecting our better seasons coefficient points.

Yeah, 2 more season of coefficient growth which should see Scotland sitting 9th. Can see us averaging 7.5 points a season from then on which would keep us just inside the top 10.

A shame Celtic are making an erse of themselves this season. 1 point in 5 group games is absolutely horrific and not forgetting their capitulation to Ferencvarous in the Champions League qualification.To put their Europa League performances in context no team in the competition has a worse goal difference than them (-10) and that includes all the wee teams like Dundalk (-9).

[Chuck Rhoades]

Two wins last night including an away win. Should help?

We’re down to one team left now - do those countries around us have more going into the next stage?

[cabbageandribs1875]

updated 10/12/2020 i'm hoping that was after last nights games

11. Scotland (https://www.football-coefficient.eu/country/23-scotland/) (32.125)
12. Ukraine (https://www.football-coefficient.eu/country/8-ukraine/) (31.700)
13. Turkey (https://www.football-coefficient.eu/country/10-turkey/) (30.100)
14. Denmark (https://www.football-coefficient.eu/country/21-denmark/) (27.875)


Shakthar(seeded) and Dynamo both in europa league



hope sevco get dynamo and knock them out :duck:

[hibbysam]

Two wins last night including an away win. Should help?

We’re down to one team left now - do those countries around us have more going into the next stage?

Ukraine has two, turkey are all out I think.

[Fergus52]

Shakthar are a good side and will probably go far enough to put Ukraine back ahead of us. Unless Rangers get really lucky with the draws.

[CMurdoch]

updated 10/12/2020 i'm hoping that was after last nights games

11. Scotland (https://www.football-coefficient.eu/country/23-scotland/) (32.125)
12. Ukraine (https://www.football-coefficient.eu/country/8-ukraine/) (31.700)
13. Turkey (https://www.football-coefficient.eu/country/10-turkey/) (30.100)
14. Denmark (https://www.football-coefficient.eu/country/21-denmark/) (27.875)


Shakthar(seeded) and Dynamo both in europa league



hope sevco get dynamo and knock them out :duck:

13th to 15th, Turkey, Denmark and Cyprus have had all their teams knocked out so no more points for them.
Ukraine who are less than a win behind us have 2 teams left and Austria who are well ahead of us in 10th have 2 teams left so no catching them until next season.
Everything is much clearer now the group stages are finished. One of the big fallers is Russia who only have one of their 6 teams still standing and Scotland will pass them when season 2022/23 starts.

[danhibees1875]

11th through 13th, us Ukraine & Turkey, is very close, but then there's a big gap to 14th. Currently in 10th for the start of next season, and 8th for 22-23, when we have to start protecting our better seasons coefficient points.

That's much higher than I thought we'd be.

We'll have 2 teams in (or starting in anyway) the CL from next season which should help us maintain the momentum too.

Be interesting to see how the third uefa tournament changes things. I'm not sure what the points allocation will be like for it but might see teams from countries like Scotland winning more and staying in Europe longer.

[Juniper Greens]

That's much higher than I thought we'd be.

We'll have 2 teams in (or starting in anyway) the CL from next season which should help us maintain the momentum too.

Be interesting to see how the third uefa tournament changes things. I'm not sure what the points allocation will be like for it but might see teams from countries like Scotland winning more and staying in Europe longer.

What will be important in this tournament is that the Aberdeens and Hibs of our league consistently beat the equivalents in Ukraine, turkey, Greece etc. I actually fear it might go against us having more teams in this tournament coefficient wise, but we will see

[SJNB Hibby]

13th to 15th, Turkey, Denmark and Cyprus have had all their teams knocked out so no more points for them.
Ukraine who are less than a win behind us have 2 teams left and Austria who are well ahead of us in 10th have 2 teams left so no catching them until next season.
Everything is much clearer now the group stages are finished. One of the big fallers is Russia who only have one of their 6 teams still standing and Scotland will pass them when season 2022/23 starts.

Not so sure about Austria. The UEFA Coefficient page isnt fully updated, as theyre still showing all the clubs left in the competition at the beginning of this week, Austria 3/5,(Still showing Scotland as 2/4) but R Wien & Linz both finished 3rd in their ELgroups, only leaving Pellets and Salzburg.

Up to 9th for starting next season now. We still have 2 bad seasons to lose, so having 5 clubs, and a little more difficulty accumulating points, wont really affect us till 22-23

[SJNB Hibby]

What will be important in this tournament is that the Aberdeens and Hibs of our league consistently beat the equivalents in Ukraine, turkey, Greece etc. I actually fear it might go against us having more teams in this tournament coefficient wise, but we will see

Agreed. It shouldnt be an upset for us to knock out a middling Greek team, and we should do better than lose out to Norwegians

[CMurdoch]

Not so sure about Austria. The UEFA Coefficient page isnt fully updated, as theyre still showing all the clubs left in the competition at the beginning of this week, Austria 3/5,(Still showing Scotland as 2/4) but R Wien & Linz both finished 3rd in their ELgroups, only leaving Pellets and Salzburg.

Up to 9th for starting next season now. We still have 2 bad seasons to lose, so having 5 clubs, and a little more difficulty accumulating points, wont really affect us till 22-23

The Wiki UEFA Coefficient page was fully updated last night.
Best case scenario for Scotland is Rangers draw and importantly beat Dynamo Kiev, 2nd best scenario draw and beat Pellets. Salzberg are arguably the best team Rangers could draw so probably best they avoid them.

[scoopyboy]

13th to 15th, Turkey, Denmark and Cyprus have had all their teams knocked out so no more points for them.
Ukraine who are less than a win behind us have 2 teams left and Austria who are well ahead of us in 10th have 2 teams left so no catching them until next season.
Everything is much clearer now the group stages are finished. One of the big fallers is Russia who only have one of their 6 teams still standing and Scotland will pass them when season 2022/23 starts.

Not strictly true CM.

Two points for a win but then divided by the number of teams entered.

Ukraine had 5 teams so a win would get them 0.4 which would still leave them a fraction behind Scotland (assuming my arithmetic is ok lol)

[Keith_M]

Not so sure about Austria. The UEFA Coefficient page isnt fully updated, as theyre still showing all the clubs left in the competition at the beginning of this week, Austria 3/5,(Still showing Scotland as 2/4) but R Wien & Linz both finished 3rd in their ELgroups, only leaving Pellets and Salzburg.

Up to 9th for starting next season now. We still have 2 bad seasons to lose, so having 5 clubs, and a little more difficulty accumulating points, wont really affect us till 22-23


Please call them Wolfsberg or WAC. I just can't get used to the new sponsor names of some Austrian clubs.

[superfurryhibby]

Not so sure about Austria. The UEFA Coefficient page isnt fully updated, as theyre still showing all the clubs left in the competition at the beginning of this week, Austria 3/5,(Still showing Scotland as 2/4) but R Wien & Linz both finished 3rd in their ELgroups, only leaving Pellets and Salzburg.

Up to 9th for starting next season now. We still have 2 bad seasons to lose, so having 5 clubs, and a little more difficulty accumulating points, wont really affect us till 22-23


Agreed. It shouldnt be an upset for us to knock out a middling Greek team, and we should do better than lose out to Norwegians

These teams probably play in Leagues with higher tv revenues than ours. That has become such a big factors in determining who should beat who.

[AgentDaleCooper]

These teams probably play in Leagues with higher tv revenues than ours. That has become such a big factors in determining who should beat who.

Also,the afore mentioned norwegian team only really horsedus because Haaland came back in for them in the second leg.

[Speedy]

Really is sods law for us that 3rd could’ve seen us go straight into Europa League group stage but never mind, should at least get something next year or 2.

[Speedy]

Also,the afore mentioned norwegian team only really horsedus because Haaland came back in for them in the second leg.

I remember thinking, he's only a teenager, how much of a difference can he make :greengrin

[CMurdoch]

Not strictly true CM.

Two points for a win but then divided by the number of teams entered.

Ukraine had 5 teams so a win would get them 0.4 which would still leave them a fraction behind Scotland (assuming my arithmetic is ok lol)

Good call Scoopy. My mistake. Ironically Scotland will receive the reduced 0.4 for a win from next season when we increase to 5 teams and that will dilute the influence of the Old Firm to our coefficient.

[SJNB Hibby]

Rangers drawn with Royal Antwerp. Pretty decent draw for them

[Magpie]

Rangers drawn with Royal Antwerp. Pretty decent draw for them

Antwerp are quite decent, gave Spurs a good game and beat them at home. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Rangers get knocked out.

[Since90+2]

Antwerp are quite decent, gave Spurs a good game and beat them at home. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Rangers get knocked out.

They are sitting 7th in the Belgian league after 16 games so Rangers will fancy themselves to beat them.

[Magpie]

They are sitting 7th in the Belgian league after 16 games so Rangers will fancy themselves to beat them.

They probably will, I just wouldn’t be surprised to see them lose. And I hope they lose.

[Juniper Greens]

Pretty easy draws for the two Ukrainian teams too though. Really a must win tie for rangers

[Since90+2]

Pretty easy draws for the two Ukrainian teams too though. Really a must win tie for rangers

I wouldn't say Dynamo Kiev have an easy tie.

Club Brugge are top of the Belgian League and only lost 2 games in the Champions League whilst drawing 2 and winning 2. I watched their game away against Lazio and despite having 10 men were a lick of paint away from qualifying for the last 16 of the Champions League when they hit the underside of the bar in the last minute.

I'd actually make Brugge favourites for that one.

[CMurdoch]

I know how this thread is hated by everyone on here apart from SJNB Hibby and me :greengrin.

After tonight's results Scotland remain in 11th place after picking up half a point tonight for Rangers win in Belgium although they did all they could to mess it up with some truly horrific defending. Fortunately the opposition were chucking them in at the other end as well.

Meanwhile
We closed on Austria who are 10th after their 2 remaining teams Red Bull Salzburg and RZ Pellets WAC both lost at home.
However, 12th place Ukraine closed in on us after their two teams grabbed a win and a draw. Shakhtar Donetsk winning and Dinamo Kiev drawing. We are now less than a win ahead of them therefore The Rangers need to win next weeks match to give us a chance of remaining in 11th.

[JohnM1875]

I know how this thread is hated by everyone on here apart from SJNB Hibby and me :greengrin.

After tonight's results Scotland remain in 11th place after picking up half a point tonight for Rangers win in Belgium although they did all they could to mess it up with some horrific defending. Fortunately the opposition were chucking them in at the other end as well.

Meanwhile
We closed on Austria who are 10th after their 2 remaining teams Red Bull Salzburg and RZ Pellets WAC both lost at home.
However, 12th place Ukraine closed in on us after their two teams grabbed a win and a draw. Shakhtar Donetsk winning and Dinamo Kiev drawing. We are now less than a win ahead of them so The Rangers need to win next weeks match to give us a chance of remaining in 11th

Hope the huns get absolutely pumped at Ibrox in the return fixture.

[CMurdoch]

Hope the huns get absolutely pumped at Ibrox in the return fixture.

Nah, best if they win next week and get pumped in the next round

[Wakeyhibee]

Nah, best if they win next week and get pumped in the next round

We'll never move up to the next group and too far in front even with a disastrous season to drop below 15th (given other countries around us will lose a better years record than us for next years figures).

Hibs to get 3rd and watch this thread rocket in popularity

[Juniper Greens]

We'll never move up to the next group and too far in front even with a disastrous season to drop below 15th (given other countries around us will lose a better years record than us for next years figures).

Hibs to get 3rd and watch this thread rocket in popularity

Actually. What's Important for a team like hibs is that we stay top 12. Means the cup winners get into PO round of EL, guaranteeing football until Christmas.

Only happening this year because there won't be a defending champion in the Conference League.

It's really important that rangers do better than shaktar and Kiev. As its these countries we are competing with for the decent spots for 3rd placed teams

[Juniper Greens]

https://i.ibb.co/Vv04Yc7/Screenshot-20210218-223002-Chrome.jpg (https://ibb.co/0fpbyRg)

[danhibees1875]

Actually. What's Important for a team like hibs is that we stay top 12. Means the cup winners get into PO round of EL, guaranteeing football until Christmas.

Only happening this year because there won't be a defending champion in the Conference League.

It's really important that rangers do better than shaktar and Kiev. As its these countries we are competing with for the decent spots for 3rd placed teams

Where do you find the detail for that part?

I find Wikipedia really good for showing coefficient ranking and what that means in terms of places in the tournaments but it lacks the entry stage detail.

I hadn't appreciated that the #1 Europa qualifying team getting through to the playoff was a bit of a fluke this year.

[mayo hibee]

As I understand it (and open to correction on this) there are two major cut off points that matter to Hibs - top 12 and top 15.

Top 12: Five European places for Scottish teams, cup winner or third placed team gets Europa League playoff - so guaranteed group stage football in either the Europa League or the Europa Conference.

13th to 15th: Five European places for Scottish teams and cup winner or third placed team goes in at the Europa League third round stage - so just needs to win one qualifying tie to get the Europa Conference group stages (two qualifying tie wins needed for Europa League).

If Scotland was to fall back out of the top 15 leagues again it's back to only four European places and we go in at the early rounds like we have done in recent years.

[Juniper Greens]

As I understand it (and open to correction on this) there are two major cut off points that matter to Hibs - top 12 and top 15.

Top 12: Five European places for Scottish teams, cup winner or third placed team gets Europa League playoff - so guaranteed group stage football in either the Europa League or the Europa Conference.

13th to 15th: Five European places for Scottish teams and cup winner or third placed team goes in at the Europa League third round stage - so just needs to win one qualifying tie to get the Europa Conference group stages (two qualifying tie wins needed for Europa League).

If Scotland was to fall back out of the top 15 leagues again it's back to only four European places and we go in at the early rounds like we have done in recent years.

Exactly. It's in the picture I posted earlier this morning if you want clarification.

Noting the quirk that this season, Hibs would be certain to get group stages, but celtic would not!

[Juniper Greens]

Where do you find the detail for that part?

I find Wikipedia really good for showing coefficient ranking and what that means in terms of places in the tournaments but it lacks the entry stage detail.

I hadn't appreciated that the #1 Europa qualifying team getting through to the playoff was a bit of a fluke this year.

A guy called Bert Kassies runs a brilliant coefficient page. Updates it every night that there are games. Has done for 15 years or so. Give it a Google and then bookmark it. It's brilliant if you are interested in coefficients

[mayo hibee]

Hibs to get 3rd and watch this thread rocket in popularity

I get the feeling that a lot of Hibs supporters are/were still a bit hung up on the cup semi finals and haven't actually realised or are only very recently realising how close we currently are to European group stage football for the first time ever. It's potentially huge for the club, biggest thing since 2016 by a long way. Aberdeen have been finishing third or higher for years with little reward but if we can stay ahead of them this year there is a massive bonus in it for us next season in Europe.

[jacomo]

The Rangers are doing the rest of Scottish football a big favour with their European runs over the past few seasons.

They are also keeping the lights on at Ibrox of course.

[Keith_M]

I

Meanwhile
We closed on Austria who are 10th after their 2 remaining teams Red Bull Salzburg and RZ Pellets WAC both lost at home. .


There were three Austrian teams playing yesterday.

Wolfsberg lost 4-1 at home to Spurs.

[mayo hibee]

RZ Pellets and Wolfsberger are the same team.

[Wakeyhibee]

I get the feeling that a lot of Hibs supporters are/were still a bit hung up on the cup semi finals and haven't actually realised or are only very recently realising how close we currently are to European group stage football for the first time ever. It's potentially huge for the club, biggest thing since 2016 by a long way. Aberdeen have been finishing third or higher for years with little reward but if we can stay ahead of them this year there is a massive bonus in it for us next season in Europe.

8 games will be a big shot in the arm. The ranking/points system is stacked against the small countries so any group stages boosts the chances of points for seasons to come.

[Fergus52]

Where do you find the detail for that part?

I find Wikipedia really good for showing coefficient ranking and what that means in terms of places in the tournaments but it lacks the entry stage detail.

I hadn't appreciated that the #1 Europa qualifying team getting through to the playoff was a bit of a fluke this year.

You get that specific info in the "access list" section of the previously mentioned Bert kassies website

[worcesterhibby]

I get the feeling that a lot of Hibs supporters are/were still a bit hung up on the cup semi finals and haven't actually realised or are only very recently realising how close we currently are to European group stage football for the first time ever. It's potentially huge for the club, biggest thing since 2016 by a long way. Aberdeen have been finishing third or higher for years with little reward but if we can stay ahead of them this year there is a massive bonus in it for us next season in Europe.

As long as the Scottish Cup isn't completed and won by a team outside of the top 3

[1875Sean]

I get the feeling that a lot of Hibs supporters are/were still a bit hung up on the cup semi finals and haven't actually realised or are only very recently realising how close we currently are to European group stage football for the first time ever. It's potentially huge for the club, biggest thing since 2016 by a long way. Aberdeen have been finishing third or higher for years with little reward but if we can stay ahead of them this year there is a massive bonus in it for us next season in Europe.

To be fair the only reason Hibs would be in Europe at Christmas would be because of this new third competition, you are comparing Aberdeen with the europa league against the Conference League, don’t get me wrong it’s Greg if we get there but it’s not going to be as big names as the other competitions

[SJNB Hibby]

As I understand it (and open to correction on this) there are two major cut off points that matter to Hibs - top 12 and top 15.

Top 12: Five European places for Scottish teams, cup winner or third placed team gets Europa League playoff - so guaranteed group stage football in either the Europa League or the Europa Conference.

13th to 15th: Five European places for Scottish teams and cup winner or third placed team goes in at the Europa League third round stage - so just needs to win one qualifying tie to get the Europa Conference group stages (two qualifying tie wins needed for Europa League).

If Scotland was to fall back out of the top 15 leagues again it's back to only four European places and we go in at the early rounds like we have done in recent years.

If you look forward, at present we would start next season in 9th, ahead of Holland and Belgium, and only a fraction behind Austria. Rangers good run is guaranteeing 5 clubs in Europe for a few years to come

[scoopyboy]

A guy called Bert Kassies runs a brilliant coefficient page. Updates it every night that there are games. Has done for 15 years or so. Give it a Google and then bookmark it. It's brilliant if you are interested in coefficients

That's the one I use.

It's brilliant.

When Hibs qualify I go on it every night to see what clubs from other countries have qualified and where it leaves us in terms of being seeded.

Canny whack sitting up on a Saturday night to 11pm to check who finished fourth in the Czech League and if we are ranked above them.

[Wakeyhibee]

As long as the Scottish Cup isn't completed and won by a team outside of the top 3

Reporting this morning SFA planning to complete next season (it is the Sun mind)

[Ringothedog]

To be fair the only reason Hibs would be in Europe at Christmas would be because of this new third competition, you are comparing Aberdeen with the europa league against the Conference League, don’t get me wrong it’s Greg if we get there but it’s not going to be as big names as the other competitions

But if we win our play off we would be in the Europa league group stages

[seanshow]

.

Hertz (https://i.ibb.co/r2kV5m3/Hertz.jpg)

Updated your chart for you :wink:

[1875Sean]

But if we win our play off we would be in the Europa league group stages

Yeah I know that, you got to remember what kind of team we will get drawn against, the times we got been in the qualifiers before we couldn’t get past the second or third round, I would imagine we would be unseeded against a decent side

[Hibernian Verse]

Yeah I know that, you got to remember what kind of team we will get drawn against, the times we got been in the qualifiers before we couldn’t get past the second or third round, I would imagine we would be unseeded against a decent side

Even in the conference there will be some top drawer sides. Either way, 4 home games guaranteed in Europe that we will hopefully be able to attend.

:flag:

[Keith_M]

RZ Pellets and Wolfsberger are the same team.


That sounds really stupid.

I've honestly never heard them called that, though I did leave Austria quite a few years ago now. They were always just referred to as Wolfsberg.

When did they change their name?

[CMurdoch]

That sounds really stupid.

I've honestly never heard them called that, though I did leave Austria quite a few years ago now. They were always just referred to as Wolfsberg.

When did they change their name?

2014 for the crass reason of sponsorship.

P.S. Keith, you are now 2nd bottom in hibs.net UEFA coefficient league just above the poster who last night thought Antwerp was in Holland :wink:

[Keith_M]

2014 for the crass reason of sponsorship.

P.S. Keith, you are now 2nd bottom in hibs.net UEFA coefficient league just above the poster who last night thought Antwerp was in Holland :wink:


Goddamn it, I'm really not putting in a good performance on this one.


Though, in my defence, at least I didn't confuse Wolfsberg and Wolfsburg.

[danhibees1875]

A guy called Bert Kassies runs a brilliant coefficient page. Updates it every night that there are games. Has done for 15 years or so. Give it a Google and then bookmark it. It's brilliant if you are interested in coefficients

Thanks - I'll check it out. :aok:

[davhibby]

We'll never move up to the next group and too far in front even with a disastrous season to drop below 15th (given other countries around us will lose a better years record than us for next years figures).

Hibs to get 3rd and watch this thread rocket in popularity

If rangers get through to the next round and even maybe get a draw in one leg of the last 16 we’d be in a position to push for 7th next season. If we were to manage that it would potentially see our Cup winner in 2023 go straight into the Europa League groups

[RyeSloan]

What rank is required for the league winners to go straight to CL group stage?

[CMurdoch]

What rank is required for the league winners to go straight to CL group stage?

I'm sure I read 10th although 11th may be good enough.
Scotland are 11th at the moment but Ukraine are in hot pursuit less than a win behind us.

[Lancs Harp]

I'm sure I read 10th although 11th may be good enough.
Scotland are 11th at the moment but Ukraine are in hot pursuit less than a win behind us.

Difficulty Scotland have with that is Shaktar who consistently get into fairly decent runs in Europe.

[jgl07]

That sounds really stupid.

I've honestly never heard them called that, though I did leave Austria quite a few years ago now. They were always just referred to as Wolfsberg.

When did they change their name?

Probably to avoid confusion with the German team VfL Wolfsburg?

[Juniper Greens]

Hertz (https://i.ibb.co/r2kV5m3/Hertz.jpg)

Updated your chart for you :wink:

Thanks
Did feel incomplete before

[CMurdoch]

Difficulty Scotland have with that is Shaktar who consistently get into fairly decent runs in Europe.

If Dynamo Kiev lose and go out next week it is a straight fight for results between Shakhtar and Rangers and the winner may be the team that gets the kindest draw.
Bottom line is if Scotland fail to stay in 11th this season they will almost certainly be top ten when next season starts and should be able to at least hold that position so any benefits are only postponed for a year although next season points gained by Scottish teams will be divided by 5 instead of the current 4 which puts an onus on Hibs, Aberdeen plus 1 to win some points.

On the current trajectory Scotland would be 8th behind Holland in 18 months time BUT the damage economically caused to our clubs by covid, some of it self inflicted, will hurt Scottish teams European performances for some time starting next season. That black clouds effects will be felt by the Old Firm and Aberdeen most.
Celtic and Rangers totally ignored the economic logic of the pandemic to have their 10 in a row fight and that combined with lousy European performances will have emptied Celtics coffers. Rangers have the satisfaction of stopping 10 in a row and thankfully for their backers, finance from their great European performances but they will have to sell players this summer to stem their massive debt, so I am expecting them to be much weaker in Europe next season. The downsize may well cause Gerrard to move on with his brainy sidekick. Winning the league and far more importantly performing well in Europe means his stock as a manager is currently very high and he won't fancy risking it next season with a downsized Rangers.

What of Scotlands other representatives, Aberdeen had too big a squad in the summer and added to it and as a result had to sell players, and give up 3rd, when their fans back before November gamble tanked. As a result they now have no strikers and their defence is almost as bad. Their hurt will continue next season unless they can recruit well and cheaply. All that considered they won't do anything in their European games next season.
Hibs covid strategy of quality summer recruitment and a small squad until the January window, has turned out best. 3rd is in the bag but not without finance. I suspect we have used most of our cash reserves but the sale of Nisbet in the summer for circa £2.5 million would probably be enough to keep us at our current playing level next season if we can recruit well again. Out of contract players leaving could have a detrimental factor to our European performances if we can't replace them with similar quality, so hopefully they stay

In conclusion Scotland have been averaging 8 coefficient points for the last 3 seasons but I suspect we will struggle next season and 6.5 points would be a decent return given all of the above.

[Juniper Greens]

If Dynamo Kiev lose and go out next week it is a straight fight for results between Shakhtar and Rangers and the winner may be the team that gets the kindest draw.
Bottom line is if Scotland fail to stay in 11th this season they will almost certainly be top ten when next season starts and should be able to at least hold that position so any benefits are only postponed for a year although next season points gained by Scottish teams will be divided by 5 instead of the current 4 which puts an onus on Hibs, Aberdeen plus 1 to win some points.

On the current trajectory Scotland would be 8th behind Holland in 18 months time BUT the damage economically caused to our clubs by covid, some of it self inflicted, will hurt Scottish teams European performances for some time starting next season. That black clouds effects will be felt by the Old Firm and Aberdeen most.
Celtic and Rangers totally ignored the economic logic of the pandemic to have their 10 in a row fight and that combined with lousy European performances will have emptied Celtics coffers. Rangers have the satisfaction of stopping 10 in a row and thankfully for their backers, finance from their great European performances but they will have to sell players this summer to stem their massive debt, so I am expecting them to be much weaker in Europe next season. The downsize may well cause Gerrard to move on with his brainy sidekick. Winning the league and far more importantly performing well in Europe means his stock as a manager is currently very high and he won't fancy risking it next season with a downsized Rangers.

What of Scotlands other representatives, Aberdeen had too big a squad in the summer and added to it and as a result had to sell players, and give up 3rd, when their fans back before November gamble tanked. As a result they now have no strikers and their defence is almost as bad. Their hurt will continue next season unless they can recruit well and cheaply. All that considered they won't do anything in their European games next season.
Hibs covid strategy of quality summer recruitment and a small squad until the January window, has turned out best. 3rd is in the bag but not without finance. I suspect we have used most of our cash reserves but the sale of Nisbet in the summer for circa £2.5 million would probably be enough to keep us at our current playing level next season if we can recruit well again. Out of contract players leaving could have a detrimental factor to our European performances if we can't replace them with similar quality, so hopefully they stay

In conclusion Scotland have been averaging 8 coefficient points for the last 3 seasons but I suspect we will struggle next season and 6.5 points would be a decent return given all of the above.

Hibs had Covid insurance. It won't have fully covered our lost earnings, but I would hope we are in better situation than you think.

Celtic need a clear out, but still have a lot of cash in the bank.

Rangers seem to be touting their players for a lot of money, even though we know they aren't worth that. I don't see a fire sale there, I think they will make one big sale.

Aberdeen is a strange one. It would not surprise me if they get a lot of financial backing in the summer, but if they don't, they are in danger of turning into us ten years ago

[CMurdoch]

Hibs had Covid insurance. It won't have fully covered our lost earnings, but I would hope we are in better situation than you think.

Celtic need a clear out, but still have a lot of cash in the bank.

Rangers seem to be touting their players for a lot of money, even though we know they aren't worth that. I don't see a fire sale there, I think they will make one big sale.

Aberdeen is a strange one. It would not surprise me if they get a lot of financial backing in the summer, but if they don't, they are in danger of turning into us ten years ago

I am not aware of Hibs telling us they had insurance which covered covid or how much it was worth and Importantly whether it had paid out.
Dundee received a small insurance payment in November which they announced. They hoped it would be an interim payment but they have been quiet since.

I did read folks posts on social media suggesting that Hibs insurance covered covid but I take them with a big pinch of salt and as I say there has been no official statement from Hibs.

[Juniper Greens]

I am not aware of Hibs telling us they had insurance which covered covid or how much it was worth and Importantly whether it had paid out.
Dundee received a small insurance payment in November which they announced. They hoped it would be an interim payment but they have been quiet since.

I did read folks posts on social media suggesting that Hibs insurance covered covid but I take them with a big pinch of salt and as I say there has been no official statement from Hibs.

Why would hibs announce it on social media? I know hibs had a level of cover, and I know it paid out

[CMurdoch]

Why would hibs announce it on social media? I know hibs had a level of cover, and I know it paid out

You have misunderstood my post. I was suggesting that there was no official communication from Hibs about relevant insurance and a pay out, merely folk on social media guessing or flying a kite.

What i was getting at was that Hibs have not, as far as i know, stated that they have had a pay out on their insurance due to covid. I understand they may choose not to make such a communication, however, you now state that you know there was relevant insurance and it has paid out. What is you source? Obviously I understand if it is an official one and you can't divulge it.

[Billy Whizz]

Why would hibs announce it on social media? I know hibs had a level of cover, and I know it paid out

Are we talking significant monies?
Also will the same thing apply to this season, with no fans in

[Juniper Greens]

You have misunderstood my post. I was suggesting that there was no official communication from Hibs about relevant insurance and a pay out, merely folk on social media guessing or flying a kite.

What i was getting at was that Hibs have not, as far as i know, stated that they have had a pay out on their insurance due to covid. I understand they may choose not to make such a communication, however, you now state that you know there was relevant insurance and it has paid out. What is you source? Obviously I understand if it is an official one and you can't divulge it.

I can tell you that money was paid. That's about it. Hibs weren't the only club to receive money although not many did. That might give you a hint as to how I know hibs got money. It wasn't an insignificant amount, but it doesn't cover all of our loses.
It continues to pay as this situation continues.

[CMurdoch]

I can tell you that money was paid. That's about it. Hibs weren't the only club to receive money although not many did. That might give you a hint as to how I know hibs got money. It wasn't an insignificant amount, but it doesn't cover all of our loses.
It continues to pay as this situation continues.

I get you now JG. Thanks

[Lee Marvin]

I can tell you that money was paid. That's about it. Hibs weren't the only club to receive money although not many did. That might give you a hint as to how I know hibs got money. It wasn't an insignificant amount, but it doesn't cover all of our loses.
It continues to pay as this situation continues.

Did Hearts have insurance?

[SJNB Hibby]

Champions League matches are all top 6, so of no interest to us, but Spurs knocking out Wolfersburg(or whatever) sure helps.
Today, the best results on top of a Hun win, would be losses where possible to Dutch, Belgian Austrian and Ukrainian teams. Salzburg winning the now

[Wakeyhibee]

Champions League matches are all top 6, so of no interest to us, but Spurs knocking out Wolfersburg(or whatever) sure helps.
Today, the best results on top of a Hun win, would be losses where possible to Dutch, Belgian Austrian and Ukrainian teams. Salzburg winning the now

Rangers wins worth slightly more than Ukranians .25 v .20 ,

Austria is the next one to get close to (too late to catch them now). The others are too dar in front until next season where they lose a good seasons we record, we lose a bad one.

[CMurdoch]

Rangers wins worth slightly more than Ukranians .25 v .20 ,

Austria is the next one to get close to (too late to catch them now). The others are too dar in front until next season where they lose a good seasons we record, we lose a bad one.

Both Austrian teams out now.
No matter what happens from now on we will start next season ahead of Belgium and Austria when the coefficient from 5 years ago drops off.
Therefore as things stand Scotland will start next season in 9th.
Only issue at the moment is Ukraine are chasing us hard. Rangers and Shakhtar both winning and going through tonight cancel each other out.
We need Dynamo Kiev to lose or draw and get knocked out against Club Brugge in Belgium tonight.
0-0 at the moment after 34 mins. 1-1 agg with the Belgians with the away goal from the 1st leg.
Fortunately for Scotland Club Brugge are a lot better than Antwerp. 15 points and a game in hand ahead of 2nd placed Antwerp.
All Club Brugge so far.

[SJNB Hibby]

Both Austrian teams out now.
No matter what happens from now on we will start next season ahead of Belgium and Austria when the coefficient from 5 years ago drops off.
Therefore as things stand Scotland will start next season in 9th.
Only issue at the moment is Ukraine are chasing us hard. Rangers and Shakhtar both winning and going through tonight cancel each other out.
We need Dynamo Kiev to lose or draw and get knocked out against Club Brugge in Belgium tonight.
0-0 at the moment after 34 mins. 1-1 agg with the Belgians with the away goal from the 1st leg.
Fortunately for Scotland Club Brugge are a lot better than Antwerp. 15 points and a game in hand ahead of 2nd placed Antwerp.
All Club Brugge so far.

We have the 5th best record THIS YEAR, which would be cemented if PSG lose to Barca in the next leg, and dont get anything from the Quarter-finals---amazing when you think about it, and the points we lose next season are even fewer than the ones we lose this season---we're on a streak to average 9 points a season---thats 6th place and 6 spots in Europe

[CMurdoch]

We have the 5th best record THIS YEAR, which would be cemented if PSG lose to Barca in the next leg, and dont get anything from the Quarter-finals---amazing when you think about it, and the points we lose next season are even fewer than the ones we lose this season---we're on a streak to average 9 points a season---thats 6th place and 6 spots in Europe

Scotland were 7th best country last season behind the top 6 who are well ahead of the rest.
Our rightful place is probably 8th behind Holland after we overtake Russia.

If we can average 7.5 coefficient points a season we would probably hold that place long term which for a nation of 5.5 million people is massively punching.
A slight spanner in the works from next season is all points gained will be divided by 5 instead of the current 4 given our extra team in Europe. This will reduce the totals gained by the Old Firm so we have to hope Hibs, Aberdeen and Livingston at least beat any lesser teams they face before the inevitable horsing from a big fish.

An hour played in Brugge and it's still 0-0. Dynamo Kiev will have to have a go soon to get the goal they need.
Good open game where a goal to either team could be curtains for the other

[SJNB Hibby]

Scotland were 7th best country last season behind the top 6 who are well ahead of the rest.
Our rightful place is probably 8th behind Holland after we overtake Russia.

If we can average 7.5 coefficient points a season we would probably hold that place long term which for a nation of 5.5 million people is massively punching.
A slight spanner in the works from next season is all points gained will be divided by 5 instead of the current 4 given our extra team in Europe. This will reduce the totals gained by the Old Firm so have to hope Hibs, Aberdeen and Livingston at least beat any lesser teams they face before the inevitable horsing from a big fish.

Agreed, but qualification for the CL group stages gives you 4 bonus points(how on earth do England spain germany and italy manage to hang on to the top 4 :rolleyes::rolleyes:) which almost makes up for it, the rich get richer etc etc etc. Imagine if Killie and the Huns hadnt lost to Welsh and Luxemburgians

[CMurdoch]

Agreed, but qualification for the CL group stages gives you 4 bonus points(how on earth do England spain germany and italy manage to hang on to the top 4 :rolleyes::rolleyes:) which almost makes up for it, the rich get richer etc etc etc. Imagine if Killie and the Huns hadnt lost to Welsh and Luxemburgians

:greengrin Even withstanding that I looked at the coefficient table earlier today and England and Spain still had all 7 teams still standing and Italy and Germany had lost only 1 team each. Brutal and getting more brutal with every reorganisation.
Re the guff losses you refer to, it does my nut when Scottish teams lose to smaller nations. We have to at least be flat track bullies like Hibs are this season.

P.S. Brugge game is very good, 82 mins gone 0-0

disaster for Scotland
Goal Kiev!!!

[SJNB Hibby]

:greengrin Even withstanding that I looked at the coefficient table earlier today and England and Spain still had all 7 teams still standing and Italy and Germany had lost only 1 team each. Brutal and getting more brutal with every reorganisation.
Re the guff losses you refer to, it does my nut when Scottish teams lose to smaller nations. We have to at least be flat track bullies like Hibs are this season.

P.S. Brugge game is very good, 77 mins gone 0-0

Yeah England and Spain are putting miles berween them and the others.

[SJNB Hibby]

Slavia through

[CMurdoch]

Slavia through

Lost my stream in Brugge as Kiev scored.
Brugge have been all over them but couldn't score.
****

Rangers could do worse than draw Kiev in the next round.
Nothing like their great team of old.
Workman like but more Chicken Kiev than Dynamo.

Disaster for Club Brugge.
Disaster for Scotland

We might still be 0.025 of a point ahead of the Ukraine but they still have 2 teams standing

[SJNB Hibby]

Lost my stream in Brugge as Kiev scored.
Ukraine overtake Scotland if Brugge can't equalise.
Brugge have been all over them but couldn't score.
****

Does it make any material difference for 2022-23 though:dunno:?
We'll have at least a 1 point spread over Ukraine starting next season

[CMurdoch]

Does it make any material difference for 2022-23 though:dunno:?
We'll have at least a 1 point spread over Ukraine starting next season

Someone posted that 11th place this season would gain an automatic qualification place in the Champions League..............probably for 2022=23
P.S. Scotland still 0.025 of a point ahead of Ukraine after tonights matches because their wins were worth 0.4 of a point each and Rangers win was worth 0.5 :na na:

P.P.S. Last Russian team has bitten the dust

[mayo hibee]

Remember as far as Hibs and the other non Glasgow teams go top 12 is all we need year on year and we're comfortable for that for next season. The whole think with Ukraine is more to do with champions league places for Rangers and Celtic, from our point of view Rangers winning is good and we don't really need to worry about what Dynamo Kiev are doing.

[CMurdoch]

Remember as far as Hibs and the other non Glasgow teams go top 12 is all we need year on year and we're comfortable for that for next season. The whole think with Ukraine is more to do with champions league places for Rangers and Celtic, from our point of view Rangers winning is good and we don't really need to worry about what Dynamo Kiev are doing.

Yeah, I get that. still want Scotland to win win win!

All falling into place.
The countries above Scotland in the coefficient but below the untouchable 6 countries: Russia, Belgium and Austria have had all their teams knocked out. Holland like Scotland have 1 team left and our chasers Ukraine miraculously have 2 after a completely outplayed Dynamo Kiev stole a late goal against a very impressive Club Brugge.

1 more Matt Johnson match win in the next round would see Scotland jump Austria, Belgium and Russia in the UEFA coefficient into 8th place when next season starts.
Have we ever been any higher?

[Wakeyhibee]

Agreed, but qualification for the CL group stages gives you 4 bonus points(how on earth do England spain germany and italy manage to hang on to the top 4 :rolleyes::rolleyes:) which almost makes up for it, the rich get richer etc etc etc. Imagine if Killie and the Huns hadnt lost to Welsh and Luxemburgians

Not got my head around the new system yet but it looks like we're comfortable for the next 3 seasons for places. 27 points seems to be the cut off point.

What I've not quite figured is how the new competition will affect that. Whilst they've reduced the EL, they have created 16 extra group stage places across the two and more chances to gain points for those clubs. The CL teams will just gain more competition points. That could aldo in effect cement the middle ranking nations with more games and set adrift the minnows which could of been us if this was 3 seasons ago.

[Juniper Greens]

At the moment, you get four points for qualifying for CL group stages, to reward it being tougher than the EL. With this new ECL, I wonder if we will see some bonus points allocated to EL in a similar way?

[CMurdoch]

The draw for the last 16 has just been made and is decent for Rangers and potentially the Scotland coefficient:
They play Slavia Prague with the 2nd leg in Scotland on the 18th March after the 1st leg a week earlier.

The Ukranian teams are drawn as follows:
Dynamo Kiev play Villarreal with the 2nd leg in Spain
Shakhtar Donetsk play AS Roma with the 2nd leg in Ukraine

Can Scotland get more coefficient points than Ukraine from this round?
Will one or both Ukraine teams get knocked out

To get through Rangers have to beat a team Leicester failed to beat last night and a team that destroyed a useless Celtic team home and away
Rangers will have to defend a lot better than they did in both games against Antwerp were they gave away 4 of the 5 goals they conceded in the tie.

Let the I hate Rangers and all they stand for and hope they get pumped posts begin :wink:

[Magpie]

The draw for the last 16 has just been made and is decent for Rangers and potentially the Scotland coefficient:
They play Slavia Prague with the 2nd leg in Scotland on the 18th March after the 1st leg a week earlier.

The Ukranian teams are drawn as follows:
Dynamo Kiev play Villarreal with the 2nd leg in Spain
Shakhtar Donetsk play AS Roma with the 2nd leg in Ukraine

Can Scotland get more coefficient points than Ukraine from this round?
Will one or both Ukraine teams get knocked out

To get through Rangers have to beat a team Leicester failed to beat last night and a team that destroyed a useless Celtic team home and away
Rangers will have to defend a lot better than they did in both games against Antwerp were they gave away 4 of the 5 goals they conceded in the tie.

Let the I hate Rangers and all they stand for and hope they get pumped posts begin :wink:

It was Sparta Prague who beat Celtic.

Slavia Prague are also undefeated in their league campaign with 16 wins and 4 draws from 20 games only conceding 12 goals. I’m not sure how that league compares to here but they are above Sparta Prague who as mentioned beat Celtic comfortably home and away. Managing to knock out Leicester and not conceding any goals over 2 games is good going, I think Slavia Prague might be too good here.

[CMurdoch]

It was Sparta Prague who beat Celtic.

Slavia Prague are also undefeated in their league campaign with 16 wins and 4 draws from 20 games only conceding 12 goals. I’m not sure how that league compares to here but they are above Sparta Prague who as mentioned beat Celtic comfortably home and away. Managing to knock out Leicester and not conceding any goals over 2 games is good going, I think Slavia Prague might be too good here.

Thanks Magpie. As you say Slavia are a much better team than Sparta who are now 8 points them in their league. No league losses is very impressive and as we know is a good habit and it will stand them in good stead against Rangers as it did against Leicester. Rangers recent habit of losing lots of poor goals could cost them.

[hibbysam]

Thanks Magpie. As you say Slavia are a much better team than Sparta who are now 8 points them in their league. No league losses is very impressive and as we know is a good habit and it will stand them in good stead against Rangers as it did against Leicester. Rangers recent habit of losing lots of poor goals could cost them.

Rangers are also a far better side than Celtic though, and although that side humped Celtic, I wasn’t overly impressed by them. Be a proper 50/50 tie this one for Rangers.

[CMurdoch]

Rangers are also a far better side than Celtic though, and although that side humped Celtic, I wasn’t overly impressed by them. Be a proper 50/50 tie this one for Rangers.

Sam, you may have followed me into the trap. It was Sparta that beat Celtic not Slavia.
Slavia are much better than Sparta and Rangers are much better than Celtic.
The Rangers defence has started to fail but Moelos could be coming into form and could make the difference.
Rangers scored 4 goals hen he was on the field last night. he scored 1, set up 2 and won the penalty for the other.

[Green Man]

The Czech league is a similar standard to the Scottish league. The Rangers v Slavia has the potential to be an excellent tie.

[CMurdoch]

The Czech league is a similar standard to the Scottish league. The Rangers v Slavia has the potential to be an excellent tie.

Slavia are doing really well this season considering they lost right back Vladimir Coufal and midfielder Tomas Soucek to West Ham. Obviously they got more than £20 million in their tail which I presume they partially reinvested.
They look a well organised and athletic team in the limited highlights I've seen of their European games.
Rangers will be hoping they can get Tavernier, Roofe & Jack back for the tie but Tavernier looked pretty busted to me so can't see him back in 3 weeks despite Gerrard's chat.

[Since90+2]

The Europa League doesn't look particularly strong this season to me. I'd say Sevco are probably slight favourites to beat Slavia and if they get a favourable draw in the quarters it's not beyond the realms of possibility they could make the semi finals.

[HoboHarry]

The Europa League doesn't look particularly strong this season to me. I'd say Sevco are probably slight favourites to beat Slavia and if they get a favourable draw in the quarters it's not beyond the realms of possibility they could make the semi finals.
The thought of those khantz getting that far gives me the boak...

[neil7908]

The Europa League doesn't look particularly strong this season to me. I'd say Sevco are probably slight favourites to beat Slavia and if they get a favourable draw in the quarters it's not beyond the realms of possibility they could make the semi finals.

Nah. If they play AC Milan, Arsenal, Spurs, Ajax or Roma I think they'd be out. Probably Villareal as well. The only tie I think they'd be favourites is if they played the winner of Granada vs Molde.

[Lancs Harp]

The Europa League doesn't look particularly strong this season to me. I'd say Sevco are probably slight favourites to beat Slavia and if they get a favourable draw in the quarters it's not beyond the realms of possibility they could make the semi finals.

Not much of a betting man but if I was having a fiver on the outcome of the Slavia v Rangers tie it would be on the Czechs. Rangers might be happy with that draw but I dont think Slavia will exactly be breaking out the nappies. Its an interesting tie but I think Slavia will prevail. Of the British Clubs I think United and Spurs will go through, Arsenal and Rangers to exit.

[hibbysam]

Sam, you may have followed me into the trap. It was Sparta that beat Celtic not Slavia.
Slavia are much better than Sparta and Rangers are much better than Celtic.
The Rangers defence has started to fail but Moelos could be coming into form and could make the difference.
Rangers scored 4 goals hen he was on the field last night. he scored 1, set up 2 and won the penalty for the other.

No, I maybe never explained it well, not sure who had mentioned it was a different team than beat Celtic and Slavia are far better, my point was that Rangers are also far better than Celtic so should still be a 50/50 game.

[Greenbeard]

Stuff the co-efficient. I hope the Stickies getting absolutely pumped by Slavia Prague, both home and away. Club and their "frothy layer of dirty water" fans need brought down a peg or twenty.

[mayo hibee]

We're at the point where it won't make a huge amount of difference to Hibs status if they do badly anyway, so we happily enjoy them losing if they do.

[Paul1642]

Another good night for Scotland. I’m to lazy to do the maths though

[CMurdoch]

It's that time again with Scotland starting the night ahead of Ukraine by the smallest of margins.

Thanks to an uber save by angry goalie, Scotland have a quarter of a point from tonight's game.

Dynamo Kiev kicked off at the same time at home and were predictably pumped by their Spanish opponents.
The 2nd Ukrainian team, Shakhtar Donetsk kicked off at 8pm against AS Roma and after 30 minutes the Romans are one up.
So as things stand, zero points to the Ukraine tonight.

[Helensburghhibs]

If rangers win it do 3rd get the champions league place as they would qualify as Europa winners

[Magpie]

If rangers win it do 3rd get the champions league place as they would qualify as Europa winners

I don’t believe so. It would favour another country’s competition I believe.

[hibbysam]

I don’t believe so. It would favour another country’s competition I believe.

That’s correct.

[Juniper Greens]

I don’t believe so. It would favour another country’s competition I believe.

What a con!

[hibbysam]

What a con!

It’s actually designed to stop the very top leagues gaining from it.

[CMurdoch]

It's that time again with Scotland starting the night ahead of Ukraine by the smallest of margins.

Thanks to an uber save by angry goalie, Scotland have a quarter of a point from tonight's game.

Dynamo Kiev kicked off at the same time at home and were predictably pumped by their Spanish opponents.
The 2nd Ukrainian team, Shakhtar Donetsk kicked off at 8pm against AS Roma and after 30 minutes the Romans are one up.
So as things stand, zero points to the Ukraine tonight.

3-0 AS Roma.
Shakhtar buried.
Looking good for Scotland finishing the season ahead of Ukraine so long as Rangers get through next week.
That's still a very big if at the moment but both Ukraine teams look like they will be going out.

[CMurdoch]

Tonights top top coefficient fact :greengrin

If The Rangers get at least a draw next week Scotlands top league will start next season ahead of the mighty Russia in the UEFA coefficient.

They will already be ahead of Belgium and Austria.

So Scotland looking at starting next season in 8th place!!!!

[Paul1642]

Tonights top top coefficient fact :greengrin

If The Rangers get at least a draw next week Scotlands top league will start next season ahead of the mighty Russia in the UEFA coefficient.

They will already be ahead of Belgium and Austria.

So Scotland looking at starting next season in 8th place!!!!

Does this change anything for Hibs coming 3rd / 4th (with the possibility of a non top team wining Scottish cup).

[CMurdoch]

Does this change anything for Hibs coming 3rd / 4th (with the possibility of a non top team wining Scottish cup).

No, although the chance of anyone outside of The Rangers winning the Scottish Cup is looking slim.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Tonights top top coefficient fact :greengrin

If The Rangers get at least a draw next week Scotlands top league will start next season ahead of the mighty Russia in the UEFA coefficient.

They will already be ahead of Belgium and Austria.

So Scotland looking at starting next season in 8th place!!!!


that would be great, hopefully our club get to take any advantage from that lofty position :flag:

[CMurdoch]

that would be great, hopefully our club get to take any advantage from that lofty position :flag:

Our league being rated the 8th best in Europe by UEFA and our national team playing in the Euro's has got to be good for attracting good players to play in Scotland and as 3rd best team in that country some might come to Hibs. Less than three years ago our league was ranked 26th which was an embarrassment.

[Magpie]

No, although the chance of anyone outside of The Rangers winning the Scottish Cup is looking slim.

Tbh I thought the same of the league cup and we saw how that panned out.

[Magpie]

Tonights top top coefficient fact :greengrin

If The Rangers get at least a draw next week Scotlands top league will start next season ahead of the mighty Russia in the UEFA coefficient.

They will already be ahead of Belgium and Austria.

So Scotland looking at starting next season in 8th place!!!!

Hopefully a 2-2 draw then.

[DH1875]

Problem is that its starting to look like whoever wins the league next season will be automatically into the champions league group stage the following season. Which ever of them it is they'll get millions and just pull even further ahead than the rest of us.

[Magpie]

Problem is that its starting to look like whoever wins the league next season will be automatically into the champions league group stage the following season. Which ever of them it is they'll get millions and just pull even further ahead than the rest of us.

The question needs to be asked, why not Hibs?

[neil7908]

The question needs to be asked, why not Hibs?

Because 2 clubs in the league have x10 the budget we do. Let's focus on achieving 3rd this year and take it from there.

[MWHIBBIES]

The question needs to be asked, why not Hibs?

Don't think that needed to be asked honestly, the answer is obvious and always has been.

[Magpie]

Don't think that needed to be asked honestly, the answer is obvious and always has been.

It was more tongue in cheek, it would be a miracle if we managed to actually win it.