Black Lives Matter

[big-mo]

As I was watching the players ‘take the knee’ at the start of the game, I just had a thought, Hibs don’t have any black players in their squad this season (as yet, that might change). So I looked back to see when the last time that happened, I will not tell you but Let’s see who can remember or work it out.

[worcesterhibby]

Probably the season we went down. Kujabi left that season and Malonga hadn’t arrived yet. Although I think we had a young black Arsenal player on loan, but I don’t remember his name and that might have been the previous season.

[J-C]

Omeonga last season.

Ignore this, I misread the OP.

[JimBHibees]

Omeonga last season.

Think he means having no black players. Probably the season we went down though did we not have a loan player.

[J-C]

Think he means having no black players. Probably the season we went down though did we not have a loan player.


Yep misread it :aok:

[bingo70]

Was it not the start of last season?

[danhibees1875]

Think he means having no black players. Probably the season we went down though did we not have a loan player.

Danny Haynes was with us that season.

[BlackSheep]

On the topic but slightly off subject... I’ve noticed the commentary teams on both Sky and HibsTV when the knee is taken, detail that it’s for Show Racism the Red Card and not expressly Black Lives Matter.

Can I assume that the SFA/SPFL have consciously told the teams that BLM, while being supported is not being named due to some of the controversy recently with the movements methods etc?

So supporting BAME communities but not directly supporting the BLM movement....?

[Jakhog1]

Must be when Hibs won the Skol cup in 91, I'm sure Harper wasn't in that squad and he played the following season

[JimBHibees]

Danny Haynes was with us that season.

Understandably I had completely forgotten about his heroic contribution that season. :greengrin

[Is It On....]

Must be when Hibs won the Skol cup in 91, I'm sure Harper wasn't in that squad and he played the following season

Remember his goal in a derby at ER? Just before half timr..what a peach..

[Jakhog1]

Remember his goal in a derby at ER? Just before half timr..what a peach..

Volley outside the box? Sure it was new year's Day

[big-mo]

Must be when Hibs won the Skol cup in 91, I'm sure Harper wasn't in that squad and he played the following season

Well done, it was season 91-92 nearly 30 years ago. I think that wee Kev was our first black player, (unless anyone knows differently).

[bingo70]

Well done, it was season 91-92 nearly 30 years ago. I think that wee Kev was our first black player, (unless anyone knows differently).

Start of last season?

[Keith_M]

Are the players going to be 'taking the knee' before every game?

I honestly thought it was supposed to be a one off.

[Jakhog1]

Well done, it was season 91-92 nearly 30 years ago. I think that wee Kev was our first black player, (unless anyone knows differently).

That was my thought that Harper was our first black player when I saw your question, I was pretty confident we had a black player every season since then.

[hibbysam]

Are the players going to be 'taking the knee' before every game?

I honestly thought it was supposed to be a one off.

The players pushed for it to be done up until October.

[danhibees1875]

Understandably I had completely forgotten about his heroic contribution that season. :greengrin

He was a slight saving grace on that version of FIFA so he sticks in my memory a bit more. :greengrin

[Keith_M]

The players pushed for it to be done up until October.


Cheers, I didn't know that.

:aok:

[Mischa1875]

That was my thought that Harper was our first black player when I saw your question, I was pretty confident we had a black player every season since then.


Think the first was a forward called Ricky Hill who played in the late 1970’s he also played for Luton

[Hiber-nation]

Think the first was a forward called Ricky Hill who played in the late 1970’s he also played for Luton

He didn't actually play a first team game though. Maybe a reserve game, not sure. It was a different Ricky Hill from the Luton player.

[Eyrie]

Regardless of when the intention is to stop doing it, the players need to do this at the first home game after the fans are back. Doing in an empty stadium just doesn't have the same impact.

Mind you, I'd like to see the game kick off first and then have all the players stop to take a knee.

[Rottenstink]

Are the players going to be 'taking the knee' before every game?

I honestly thought it was supposed to be a one off.
im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their website

[hibbysam]

im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their website

Nobody is being forced to do anything. The players themselves requested that the PFA take this up with SFA/SPFL and make it happen every game until October. They are also working with SRTRC to promote stamping it out. As far as I know there’s been absolutely no promotion of the BLM campaign in Scottish football, just a show of defiance by taking the knee against racism.

[Future17]

It's at the players' own discretion so nobody is being forced to do it.

If you think the point of it is to prove you're not racist, then it seems you haven't made much of an effort to understand things beyond reading a website.

[delbert]

He didn't actually play a first team game though. Maybe a reserve game, not sure. It was a different Ricky Hill from the Luton player.

I’m sure the guy that played for us came from Bermuda and he was recommended to us by Denis McQuade, who scored one of Partick Thistles four goals against Celtic in the 1971 League Cup Final, he was working out there at the time and saw him play.

[CapitalGreen]

im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their website

Just missing a mention of George Soros now to complete my bingo card 👍

[Hiber-nation]

I’m sure the guy that played for us came from Bermuda and he was recommended to us by Denis McQuade, who scored one of Partick Thistles four goals against Celtic in the 1971 League Cup Final, he was working out there at the time and saw him play.

Yeah I'm sure it was Bermuda, can't remember about McQuade but I do remember a photo in a match programme (and no doubt the EEN) of a freezing Ricky Hill in his Hibs training gear.

[hibsbollah]

Just missing a mention of George Soros now to complete my bingo card 👍

Wanting to destroy the nuclear family was a new one on me :faf:

[hibby rae]

im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their website

I'd love to hear your definition of Marxist.

It's interesting Martin Luther King, and others, were also accused of being Communists during the fight for African American civil rights in the 1960s, by those who opposed such things.

[Alfred E Newman]

Nobody is being forced to do anything. The players themselves requested that the PFA take this up with SFA/SPFL and make it happen every game until October. They are also working with SRTRC to promote stamping it out. As far as I know there’s been absolutely no promotion of the BLM campaign in Scottish football, just a show of defiance by taking the knee against racism.
There was a Black Lives Matter banner on display behind the goals last week.

[makaveli1875]

If players feel they want to take a knee from now until the end of thier career then no reason why they shouldnt , same as any players that dont want to take a knee shouldnt have to . Its not North Korea people can choose what they do and dont want to do

[Irish_Steve]

Just missing a mention of George Soros now to complete my bingo card 👍

I had a square that said "All Lives Matter"

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Kinda off topic

Was Kevin Harper our first black player?

Can’t think of anyone before him...

[Hiber-nation]

Kinda off topic

Was Kevin Harper our first black player?

Can’t think of anyone before him...

I think he was. Can't think of any other black player in the Miller years. First non-Scottish black players might have been Jimmy Boco and Tony Rougier but I'm not 100% certain

[Clarence]

Wanting to destroy the nuclear family was a new one on me :faf:

Maybe he thinks people are talking about the simpsons when they use that term.

[greenlex]

It's at the players' own discretion so nobody is being forced to do it.

If you think the point of it is to prove you're not racist, then it seems you haven't made much of an effort to understand things beyond reading a website.
Players maybe aren’t being forced into doing it but it would be a brave player that doesn’t do it. I saw on sky sports players and black players at that (not necessarily football as it may have been rugby league) not doing it and being singled out for attention.

[IvanSproule]

Wanting to destroy the nuclear family was a new one on me :faf:

To be fair to him, that aim is specifically stated on the BLM website.

The founders of BLM have freely admitted they are trained Marxists.

[Berwickhibby]

im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their website

What a great post

[bigwheel]

im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their website

They are not ..but regardless you know fine well that taking the knee is not supporting the BLM organisation , it’s supporting the cry for equality for people of colour - and yet still look for some reason to take exception

[Wee Effen Bee]

im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their website

This really brightened up my Sunday. I was laughing whilst telling my wife about this excellent piece of satire on Hibs.net. Then I thought maybe you are not a wit but an utter, right wing erse who is so busy blowing an artery about a couple of desperate asylum seekers on canoes in the Channel, you forgot you weren’t on Parler and posted this pathetic garbage. Whichever it is, wit or twit, I had a good laugh! Marxists, nuclear family, oh ma sides.😂

[Sir David Gray]

im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their website

This is one for the Holy Ground so this will be my only comment on this particular thread. You'll get stick for that on here but I agree.

Black lives matter as a statement is an indisputable fact by any right thinking individual and their lives haven't mattered as much a lot of the time, particularly in the USA. I'm 100% opposed to that.

Black Lives Matter in terms of the movement/organisation it has grown into - not for me, for a lot of the reasons you have stated.

[Gatecrasher]

Players maybe aren’t being forced into doing it but it would be a brave player that doesn’t do it. I saw on sky sports players and black players at that (not necessarily football as it may have been rugby league) not doing it and being singled out for attention.

you just need to look at F1 some of the drivers do and there are a few that dont. They wear the End racism T-Shirts and send out all the correct messages and Le Clerc even went out of his way to have pictures on the podium with Lewis Hamilton with one of the T-shirts but he refuses to take a knee but still faces pelters. I'm not a fan of it to be honest. I like the message but not the taking a knee but at the end of the day no one is being racist to me.

[IvanSproule]

This really brightened up my Sunday. I was laughing whilst telling my wife about this excellent piece of satire on Hibs.net. Then I thought maybe you are not a wit but an utter, right wing erse who is so busy blowing an artery about a couple of desperate asylum seekers on canoes in the Channel, you forgot you weren’t on Parler and posted this pathetic garbage. Whichever it is, wit or twit, I had a good laugh! Marxists, nuclear family, oh ma sides.😂

Again,

BLM are opposed to the traditional "Nuclear family"

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

That is from the "what we believe" page of the official BLM website.

If you want me to point you to the interview where the BLM founders call themselves "trained Marxists" I can.

You should be careful of labelling someone right-wing for opposing an organisation that you clearly have not researched fully.

FWIW I believe this thread belongs on the Holy Ground too, I don't think politics belongs in sport. Even good politics.
And I personally would rather support organisations that promote a pure, apolitical stance on anti-racism like Kick it Out or The Equiano Project.

[CapitalGreen]

Again,

BLM are opposed to the traditional "Nuclear family"

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

That is from the "what we believe" page of the official BLM website.

If you want me to point you to the interview where the BLM founders call themselves "trained Marxists" I can.

You should be careful of labelling someone right-wing for opposing an organisation that you clearly have not researched fully.

FWIW I believe this thread belongs on the Holy Ground too, I don't think politics belongs in sport. Even good politics.
And I personally would rather support organisations that promote a pure, apolitical stance on anti-racism like Kick it Out or The Equiano Project.






Maybe there is more information you have omitted but that paragraph you have quoted doesn’t say they oppose the traditional "Nuclear family". To say they were opposed to the traditional nuclear family would suggest they are anti-the traditional “nuclear-family”. What they seem to be saying is that they disrupt the requirement for it by providing support to others across their organisation and not just limiting support to ones immediate family.

[Keith_M]

Holy Ground?

:dunno:

[hibsbollah]

Again,

BLM are opposed to the traditional "Nuclear family"

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

That is from the "what we believe" page of the official BLM website.

If you want me to point you to the interview where the BLM founders call themselves "trained Marxists" I can.

You should be careful of labelling someone right-wing for opposing an organisation that you clearly have not researched fully.

FWIW I believe this thread belongs on the Holy Ground too, I don't think politics belongs in sport. Even good politics.
And I personally would rather support organisations that promote a pure, apolitical stance on anti-racism like Kick it Out or The Equiano Project.






´Disrupt the family structure requirement’ is a clumsily worded sentence with an unclear meaning. It does NOT mean the movement is opposed to a traditional family :faf: FFS. This kind of deliberate distraction from the real point of BLM, which I’m sure the players understand fine well.

[hibbysam]

Again,

BLM are opposed to the traditional "Nuclear family"

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

That is from the "what we believe" page of the official BLM website.

If you want me to point you to the interview where the BLM founders call themselves "trained Marxists" I can.

You should be careful of labelling someone right-wing for opposing an organisation that you clearly have not researched fully.

FWIW I believe this thread belongs on the Holy Ground too, I don't think politics belongs in sport. Even good politics.
And I personally would rather support organisations that promote a pure, apolitical stance on anti-racism like Kick it Out or The Equiano Project.






Again, all over the sky sports broadcast is SRTRC. Nothing to do with BLM.

[IvanSproule]

´Disrupt the family structure requirement’ is a clumsily worded sentence with an unclear meaning. It does NOT mean the movement is opposed to a traditional family :faf: FFS. This kind of deliberate distraction from the real point of BLM, which I’m sure the players understand fine well.


To be honest I agree that it is a mild statement of opposition, and on the list of things I disagree with the organisation BLM on, this is way down the list.

I just saw the other dude that commented getting alot of stick for the Nuclear family comment and thought I would point out that BLM do have a stance on this. It seemed like yourself and a few other posters thought that he had just pulled that line out of nowhere.

I agree that these issues are a distraction from the message of anti-racism, but the problem is that the distraction is provided by BLM when they dilute their message with strange and politically polarising extra goals. The list on the website is as long as your arm and most are not even loosely related to tackling racism. This coupled with other baggage make them hard to support for alot of people, weakening the anti-racism movement.

That isn't a problem with apolitical organisations like Kick It Out.

[IvanSproule]

Again, all over the sky sports broadcast is SRTRC. Nothing to do with BLM.

Footballers all over Europe are wearing BLM armbands.

BLM banners in every Premier League ground and on every players shirt.

Taking a knee is following the lead of Kaepernick in the U.S (a brave and commendable act IMO) that he dedicated specifically to BLM.

I'm glad the SRTRC are being included but to say this has nothing to do with BLM is not true.

[hibsbollah]

To be honest I agree that it is a mild statement of opposition, and on the list of things I disagree with the organisation BLM on, this is way down the list.

I just saw the other dude that commented getting alot of stick for the Nuclear family comment and thought I would point out the BLM do have a stance on this. It seemed like yourself and a few other posters thought that he had just pulled that line out of nowhere.

I agree that these issues are a distraction from the message of anti-racism, but the problem is that the distraction is provided by BLM when they dilute their message with strange and politically polarising extra goals. The list on the website is as long as your arm and most are not even loosely related to tackling racism. This coupled with other baggage make them hard to support for alot of people, weakening the anti-racism movement.

That isn't a problem with apolitical organisations like Kick It Out.

It’s not a ‘mild’ statement of opposition to family, it isn’t demonstrating opposition to it at all :dunno: You’re misunderstanding the meaning because it’s poorly worded.
BLM means black lives matter. It’s not a confusing concept, whatever website has been set up or what the wording is. It’s really up to individuals how they respond to that. George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, all that jazz.

[hibbysam]

Footballers all over Europe are wearing BLM armbands.

BLM banners in every Premier League ground and on every players shirt.

Taking a knee is following the lead of Kaepernick in the U.S (a brave and commendable act IMO) that he dedicated specifically to BLM.

I'm glad the SRTRC are being included but to say this has nothing to do with BLM is not true.

We play in the SPFL not Europe, not the premier league. We aren’t wearing armbands or have it embroidered on shirts. Taking the knee is a clear symbol of uniting against racism. I look at the players doing so and wearing SRTRC tops, and branding everywhere and don’t think of some organisation I have no interest in. Also when it comes to BLM it’s about the message around racism rather the movement or political stance.

[mjhibby]

To be honest I agree that it is a mild statement of opposition, and on the list of things I disagree with the organisation BLM on, this is way down the list.

I just saw the other dude that commented getting alot of stick for the Nuclear family comment and thought I would point out that BLM do have a stance on this. It seemed like yourself and a few other posters thought that he had just pulled that line out of nowhere.

I agree that these issues are a distraction from the message of anti-racism, but the problem is that the distraction is provided by BLM when they dilute their message with strange and politically polarising extra goals. The list on the website is as long as your arm and most are not even loosely related to tackling racism. This coupled with other baggage make them hard to support for alot of people, weakening the anti-racism movement.

That isn't a problem with apolitical organisations like Kick It Out.

You can support the general message without supporting the movement.

[hibsbollah]

https://blacklivesmatter.com/news/

I can’t quite see the weird stuff you cut n pasted when I look at the BLM website? Maybe I’m wrong?

[Kato]

im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their website

Did you check Facebook just now? Go to your feed now for some more fantastic news!!!

[Smartie]

If "rottenstink" is on here, then who is guarding the statues?

[Kato]

The founders of BLM have freely admitted they are trained Marxists.


City And Guilds?

[Kato]

https://blacklivesmatter.com/news/

I can’t quite see the weird stuff you cut n pasted when I look at the BLM website? Maybe I’m wrong?

It's there - it just says a nuclear family structure isn't a requirement. Nothing about wanting to destroy it. Doesn't stop the hard of thinking imagining that that is what it means though.

[IvanSproule]

It’s not a ‘mild’ statement of opposition to family, it isn’t demonstrating opposition to it at all :dunno: You’re misunderstanding the meaning because it’s poorly worded.
BLM means black lives matter. It’s not a confusing concept, whatever website has been set up or what the wording is. It’s really up to individuals how they respond to that. George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, all that jazz.

On the website you linked, go to - About - What We Believe. Its all there.

I completely accept that I may be misunderstanding the sentence, I just construe the "disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family requirement" as a mild admonishment of Western society. But again I totally accept that my reading of that may be wrong, I really don't have any strong feelings on that particular point anyway, like I said I merely chimed in as it seemed that yourself and other posters believed that the original poster had made that bit up.

We will have to disagree that BLM have not confused the conversation however. Any right-minded person must support the statement that black lives matter, and that black people remain under-valued and disadvantaged in our society. I just can't throw my weight behind an organisation that I believe has misguided views on how to right that wrong, namely defunding/abolishing the police and removing anti discrimination laws.

[Wee Effen Bee]

[QUOTE=IvanSproule;6261875]Again,

BLM are opposed to the traditional "Nuclear family"

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

That is from the "what we believe" page of the official BLM website.

If you want me to point you to the interview where the BLM founders call themselves "trained Marxists" I can.

You should be careful of labelling someone right-wing for opposing an organisation that you clearly have not researched fully.

FWIW I believe this thread belongs on the Holy Ground too, I don't think politics belongs in sport. Even good politics.
And I personally would rather support organisations that promote a pure, apolitical stance on anti-racism like Kick it Out or The Equiano Project.

Pish! Please don’t accuse me of knowing nothing about an organisation I’m fully aware of. If you can’t understand the point being made from that very paragraph you actually cite, then there’s something wrong. All through their short history? BLM has encouraged a ‘broad church’ of supporters. They continually promote an all-encompassing message to all straight and LBTG folks. They intentionally redirected the term ‘nuclear family’ back to the very society which systematically enslaved, tortured, raped and murdered black people for centuries. Trying to find reasons not to support the ideals behind the campaign is sad. We either support the cause or we don’t. That’s what matters!

[IvanSproule]

You can support the general message without supporting the movement.

I'd love to be able to do both, but you're right. My oppostion to BLM as an organisation doesn't alter my view that racism is real, dangerous and needs to be stamped out.

[O'Rourke3]

im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their websiteEh? I'd rather all teams did this every game up to the point it was no longer necessary than try and suggest its somegthing Trump would dream up to argue why its wrong.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[Prof. Shaggy]

[QUOTE=IvanSproule;6261875]Again,

BLM are opposed to the traditional "Nuclear family"

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

That is from the "what we believe" page of the official BLM website.

If you want me to point you to the interview where the BLM founders call themselves "trained Marxists" I can.

You should be careful of labelling someone right-wing for opposing an organisation that you clearly have not researched fully.

FWIW I believe this thread belongs on the Holy Ground too, I don't think politics belongs in sport. Even good politics.
And I personally would rather support organisations that promote a pure, apolitical stance on anti-racism like Kick it Out or The Equiano Project.

Pish! Please don’t accuse me of knowing nothing about an organisation I’m fully aware of. If you can’t understand the point being made from that very paragraph you actually cite, then there’s something wrong. All through their short history? BLM has encouraged a ‘broad church’ of supporters. They continually promote an all-encompassing message to all straight and LBTG folks. They intentionally redirected the term ‘nuclear family’ back to the very society which systematically enslaved, tortured, raped and murdered black people for centuries. Trying to find reasons not to support the ideals behind the campaign is sad. We either support the cause or we don’t. That’s what matters!

Good Post.
This issue reminds me depressingly of the stuff you used to hear trotted out (pun half-intended) as excuses not to support the "Marxist" ANC in the days of Apartheid.

The theory seemed to be that over-whelmingly white, often middle-class people living in relative comfort had the right to set rules dictating how the oppressed were allowed to deal with their situation and conduct their struggle.

Just as the ANC were actually engaged in fighting racism, BLM has made an impact globally that is currently unequalled.

Edit: The good post is Wee effin bee's!

[TelaStella]

im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their website

Wondering if it’s just coincidence or did you choose your username solely in mind of writing something like this? Bit strange that this is only the second discussion you’ve contributed to in your 2 years on the forum as well. Maybe time to call it a day and find somewhere else to spout your drivel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Iggy Pope]

im against players being forced to do this in order to prove that they’re not racist. BLM are a self-avowed Marxist organization that’ seeks to dismantle the nuclear family , the Western capitalist system, and has some very not nice views on Israel And it’s been a marvelous confidence trick, using black lives as a pretext to implement their goals. Don’t believe? Check out their website

Cottoned on to this thread late, but I’ve got some very not nice views on Israel too. They’re absolute ****s and always have been. Hope I’m not a Marxist.

[CropleyWasGod]

Cottoned on to this thread late, but I’ve got some very not nice views on Israel too. They’re absolute ****s and always have been. Hope I’m not a Marxist.

I wouldn't want to belong to any political movement that would have me as a member.

[Iggy Pope]

I wouldn't want to belong to a political movement that would have me as a member.

Madam, if I were your husband, I may probably kill myself!

[CropleyWasGod]

Madam, if I were your husband, I may probably kill myself!

You're definitely a Marxist.

[oneone73]

Madam, if I were your husband, I may probably kill myself!

Go, and never darken my towels again.

[Iggy Pope]

Go, and never darken my towels again.

Brothers you say Mr Warner? Brothers?

[JeMeSouviens]

You're definitely a Marxist.

Oh god, not another Harpo debate!

[EAZY-ME]

Maybe worth checking out YouTube and see for yourself what the black lives matter movement and antifa are currently up to.

[matty_f]

Maybe worth checking out YouTube and see for yourself what the black lives matter movement and antifa are currently up to.

:agree: they don’t let just anyone post videos on YouTube so you can be confident it’s accurate. Even the conflicting stuff.

[#2 Double Tap]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUUhDoCx8zc&list=PLyhcslWBlO7Ad38eJftL2oMs 0-1AWZTWu

[gramskiwood]

This really brightened up my Sunday. I was laughing whilst telling my wife about this excellent piece of satire on Hibs.net. Then I thought maybe you are not a wit but an utter, right wing erse who is so busy blowing an artery about a couple of desperate asylum seekers on canoes in the Channel, you forgot you weren’t on Parler and posted this pathetic garbage. Whichever it is, wit or twit, I had a good laugh! Marxists, nuclear family, oh ma sides.😂

:top marks Just what I was going to say.

[Rottenstink]

If "rottenstink" is on here, then who is guarding the statues?

And you wonder why I’d only posted twice...


You clearly take exception with my point that they are Marxist.
They have openly stated that they wish to bring down the Western Capitalist system ( their words, not mine). The Israeli stance has already been in evidence ( some rather unsavory anti Semitic comments being spouted by their members ).
I don’t know about you, But I’m not a big fan of Marxist styles of government. They always lead to mass extermination. They have to in order to be implemented
To toppling of statues and kneeling : knock yourself out, but only if it has been agreed upon first In the case of statues, let’s discuss it first democratically ( yes, even in the case of personal heroes such as Adam Smith ) . Kneeling : players should be aware that it is under their own volition
The reason I’m not standing by statues : I live in Japan

[Rottenstink]

Cottoned on to this thread late, but I’ve got some very not nice views on Israel too. They’re absolute ****s and always have been. Hope I’m not a Marxist.
That doesn’t necessarily correlate with Marxist
Although Marx himself was Jewish, as was Trotsky

[Future17]

Kneeling : players should be aware that it is under their own volition.

What makes you think they're not aware of this?

[Rottenstink]

:top marks Just what I was going to say.

Christ. I’ve been away from Scotland too long. Is this what stands in for discussion ? Oh well

[bigwheel]

Christ. I’ve been away from Scotland too long. Is this what stands in for discussion ? Oh well

So I’m assuming you know fine well that kneeling is in support against inequality for black lives, it’s not about supporting the organisation you have been talking about...I take it you also know it’s history and symbolism pre dates them by many years. so what is your real issue? You don’t support the knee that is kneeling ? Do you support the knee on a black mans neck ? What’s your real reason for posting on this thread ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jim44]

Think the first was a forward called Ricky Hill who played in the late 1970’s he also played for Luton

I think we had a black player around the 50s/60s. He may have been mixed race. He played mainly in the reserves if I remember correctly.

[FilipinoHibs]

:agree: they don’t let just anyone post videos on YouTube so you can be confident it’s accurate. Even the conflicting stuff.

Like Trump's Alien sperm no mask crank doctor.

[Future17]

Christ. I’ve been away from Scotland too long. Is this what stands in for discussion ? Oh well

Is not answering questions directed to you what stands for discussion?

[mjhibby]

Its clear that virtually everybody agrees with the sentiment of taking the knee but not some of the aims of Blm. Too many folk conflating the two. As someone who has heard horrendous racial abuse for years while coaching taking the knee should have happened years ago. Now let’s see action against sectarianism or is that a step too far.

[number9dream]

Its clear that virtually everybody agrees with the sentiment of taking the knee but not some of the aims of Blm. Too many folk conflating the two. As someone who has heard horrendous racial abuse for years while coaching taking the knee should have happened years ago. Now let’s see action against sectarianism or is that a step too far.

Well said. The players are taking a knee in support of the broad anti-racism message, which does not mean endorsing a narrow political organisation with a handful of chapters in North America.
The sentiment and slogan of BLM has taken on far greater significance than the original network. Many players and people marching in support etc will not even be aware that there is such an organisation - and that's absolutely no problem. It's the stance against the evils of racism that is key.

And people are correct to point out that the SPFL partnership is officially with SRTRC.

[CapitalGreen]

Maybe worth checking out YouTube and see for yourself what the black lives matter movement and antifa are currently up to.

Maybe worth checking out YouTube and see for yourself that Edwin de Graaf is the all-action, goal-scoring box-to-box midfielder our team has been missing since Scott Brown left.

[FilipinoHibs]

Here are the BLM's organisational principles. Can't see anything about the overthrow of capitalism or the destruction of the family. Think the poster has been watching too many Trump videos.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

[K Kay]

Here are the BLM's organisational principles. Can't see anything about the overthrow of capitalism or the destruction of the family. Think the poster has been watching too many Trump videos.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

And a group with no named leaders and who keep no records or books. They are indeed a totalitarian group with aims beyond what people think the meaning of what BLM stands for. Just as Antifa use this name but are indeed right wing and if they had lived in the 30’s and 40,s would have been Nazis and sent us all to death camps. All these groups are dangerous with dangerous people running them. People on here talking about inequality that doesn’t even exist, is a poor black person worse of than a poor white person? Football players are taking the knee in trying to get racism kicked out of sport but because of all that’s going on in the world it’s being hijacked and used for the aims of BLM by some. I’ve noticed many black players raising the arm and clenching the fist in support of black power for example yet no one mentions this. I’m against racism myself the problem is people being people will always find a way to politicise things in other ways

[CropleyWasGod]

And a group with no named leaders and who keep no records or books. They are indeed a totalitarian group with aims beyond what people think the meaning of what BLM stands for. Just as Antifa use this name but are indeed right wing and if they had lived in the 30’s and 40,s would have been Nazis and sent us all to death camps. All these groups are dangerous with dangerous people running them. People on here talking about inequality that doesn’t even exist, is a poor black person worse of than a poor white person? Football players are taking the knee in trying to get racism kicked out of sport but because of all that’s going on in the world it’s being hijacked and used for the aims of BLM by some. I’ve noticed many black players raising the arm and clenching the fist in support of black power for example yet no one mentions this. I’m against racism myself the problem is people being people will always find a way to politicise things in other ways

There's a page on the site that shows their co-founders:-

https://blacklivesmatter.com/our-co-founders/

As for the "records and books" claim, what makes you think that?

[CapitalGreen]

And a group with no named leaders and who keep no records or books. They are indeed a totalitarian group with aims beyond what people think the meaning of what BLM stands for. Just as Antifa use this name but are indeed right wing and if they had lived in the 30’s and 40,s would have been Nazis and sent us all to death camps. All these groups are dangerous with dangerous people running them. People on here talking about inequality that doesn’t even exist, is a poor black person worse of than a poor white person? Football players are taking the knee in trying to get racism kicked out of sport but because of all that’s going on in the world it’s being hijacked and used for the aims of BLM by some. I’ve noticed many black players raising the arm and clenching the fist in support of black power for example yet no one mentions this. I’m against racism myself the problem is people being people will always find a way to politicise things in other ways

Good effort but lack of YouTube reference brings it down a little for me, 7/10.

[WhileTheChief..]

Why does everyone rubbish anything on YouTube about BLM?

There are some very legitimate concerns about them and Antifa, surely it’s worth discussing instead of just rubbishing anyone that isn’t in full agreement?

As for the players taking the knee, no problem with it but it looks absolutely ridiculous in an empty stadium!

[K Kay]

There's a page on the site that shows their co-founders:-

https://blacklivesmatter.com/our-co-founders/

As for the "records and books" claim, what makes you think that?

Why have I to do it for you? Perhaps if you took the time to do a bit of research yourself you would find the answers you need instead of just posting what you would like to be truth.

[CropleyWasGod]

Why have I to do it for you? Perhaps if you took the time to do a bit of research yourself you would find the answers you need instead of just posting what you would like to be truth.

It was a genuine question. I assumed you would know the answer, since you made the claim.

As for the highlighted comment, I haven't done that.

[Wilson]

I'd have preferred it if we had just redoubled our efforts at promoting show racism the red card. That seems to be our vehicle for tackling racism. Is it doing enough? Is it visible enough? We might have had to have looked at that but why not back it if we have it in place?

Adopting another organisation's form of protest seems to have distracted from the real issue which is a shame.

[FilipinoHibs]

Here is a good article on Antifa. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/06/what-is-antifa-trump-terrorist-designation#aoh=15970618469415&amp_ct=1597061954997&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Sorry no youtube references.

[K Kay]

It was a genuine question.

As for the highlighted comment, I haven't done that.

Apologies CWG, I didn’t realise it was you who posted this i thought it was too the lad I replied too. I forgot my sisters birthday and I’m meeting her in half an hour.

[CropleyWasGod]

Apologies CWG, I didn’t realise it was you who posted this i thought it was too the lad I replied too. I forgot my sisters birthday and I’m meeting her in half an hour.

No worries :greengrin

Good luck with grovelling to your sister......:not worth


PS, I'm sure it's not meant, but your User Name doesn't help in arguments like this.....:cb

[K Kay]

There's a page on the site that shows their co-founders:-

https://blacklivesmatter.com/our-co-founders/

As for the "records and books" claim, what makes you think that?

The important thing to remember is to always follow the money. If you’ve been to there website it shows you where to send donations. You then follow that through and find where it’s going. I’ll give you 3 names all of which you can easily find out about and what they are about.
Act blue
Thousand currents
The tides foundation

You will find that no money goes to BLM directly and you will be surprised where it ends up. No need for books then that then leads to the difference between founders and leaders, the founders of which at least 2 are self proclaimed Marxists.

As for my user name it’s my initials of which the middle one is D and not the missing K that everyone takes delight at adding to on my tools at work and annoys me no end.

Good luck in your search.

[bigwheel]

The important thing to remember is to always follow the money. If you’ve been to there website it shows you where to send donations. You then follow that through and find where it’s going. I’ll give you 3 names all of which you can easily find out about and what they are about.
Act blue
Thousand currents
The tides foundation

You will find that no money goes to BLM directly and you will be surprised where it ends up. No need for books then that then leads to the difference between founders and leaders, the founders of which at least 2 are self proclaimed Marxists.

As for my user name it’s my initials of which the middle one is D and not the missing K that everyone takes delight at adding to on my tools at work and annoys me no end.

Good luck in your search.

You have an issue with these three organisations?? organisations that seek to address inequity and social improvement in the world ?

I always struggle with arguments (like yours) that seek to isolate individuals involved , rather than recognise the overwhelming injustice they seek to fight .

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Interesting that it's to be continued until October. Why?
It's possibly the earliest we can expect any limited fans into stadiums.
Now remember the twitter storm Rangers fans made when the team took the knee in their pre season French games.
Well that storm of abuse against BLM and even their own players has continued, so much do that their black player Connor Golson has spoken about the abuse, abuse he expected from Rangers fans I might add.
The increasing hard right eliment in the Rangers support is growing and becomming more and more dangerous.
Could you imagine an a packed out Ibrox roundly booing their own team taking the knee? It would seriously embarrass the football authorities and Scottish society around the globe.

Fully expect Golsons time at Ibrox to be fairy limited now also.

[FilipinoHibs]

The important thing to remember is to always follow the money. If you’ve been to there website it shows you where to send donations. You then follow that through and find where it’s going. I’ll give you 3 names all of which you can easily find out about and what they are about.
Act blue
Thousand currents
The tides foundation

You will find that no money goes to BLM directly and you will be surprised where it ends up. No need for books then that then leads to the difference between founders and leaders, the founders of which at least 2 are self proclaimed Marxists.

As for my user name it’s my initials of which the middle one is D and not the missing K that everyone takes delight at adding to on my tools at work and annoys me no end.

Good luck in your search.

You are talking rubbish. The three founders are political activists on a range of issues. They are not members of any political marxist groups. They are supporters of Bernie Saunders a democratic socialist but really a left social democrat. Your slurs are similar to Trumps slurs on anybody who is progressive. Try reading their bios on here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter

[K Kay]

You have an issue with these three organisations?? organisations that seek to address inequity and social improvement in the world ?

I always struggle with arguments (like yours) that seek to isolate individuals involved , rather than recognise the overwhelming injustice they seek to fight .

The only injustice these people seek to fight is the hole in their pockets when there is no money in them.
It’s not even an argument, they are what they are.
Like I said, follow the money.
Good luck in your search too.

[#2 Double Tap]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k34boxNrqL8

[JimBHibees]

The important thing to remember is to always follow the money. If you’ve been to there website it shows you where to send donations. You then follow that through and find where it’s going. I’ll give you 3 names all of which you can easily find out about and what they are about.
Act blue
Thousand currents
The tides foundation

You will find that no money goes to BLM directly and you will be surprised where it ends up. No need for books then that then leads to the difference between founders and leaders, the founders of which at least 2 are self proclaimed Marxists.

As for my user name it’s my initials of which the middle one is D and not the missing K that everyone takes delight at adding to on my tools at work and annoys me no end.

Good luck in your search.

So people in BLM are in it for the money. Could think of a million other ways to do so.

[EAZY-ME]

You are talking rubbish. The three founders are political activists on a range of issues. They are not members of any political marxist groups. They are supporters of Bernie Saunders a democratic socialist but really a left social democrat. Your slurs are similar to Trumps slurs on anybody who is progressive. Try reading their bios on here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter

https://disrn.com/news/video-surfaces-of-black-lives-matter-founder-saying-were-trained-marxists

[#2 Double Tap]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxtCLQJtnJM

[EAZY-ME]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxtCLQJtnJM

Tune :greengrin

[MKHIBEE]

The important thing to remember is to always follow the money. If you’ve been to there website it shows you where to send donations. You then follow that through and find where it’s going. I’ll give you 3 names all of which you can easily find out about and what they are about.
Act blue
Thousand currents
The tides foundation

You will find that no money goes to BLM directly and you will be surprised where it ends up. No need for books then that then leads to the difference between founders and leaders, the founders of which at least 2 are self proclaimed Marxists.

As for my user name it’s my initials of which the middle one is D and not the missing K that everyone takes delight at adding to on my tools at work and annoys me no end.

Good luck in your search.
Im not in least bit surprised that BLM use various companies to ensure that they have the expertise and contacts available to maximise their fund raising activities and that funds raised can be used by companies who are able to deliver the BLM objectives as outlined by themselves. It’s a bit like HSL providing funds for Hibernian FC. Attempting to achieve a common goal

[bigwheel]

The only injustice these people seek to fight is the hole in their pockets when there is no money in them.
It’s not even an argument, they are what they are.
Like I said, follow the money.
Good luck in your search too.

Oh dear..and I thought you actually had depth of content ....now I realise you're just a hater...

[hibsbollah]

https://blacklivesmatter.com/

Theres a mention here on the website about disinformation campaigns online. Just get informed and make your judgments on what you think is right.

[Future17]

Why does everyone rubbish anything on YouTube about BLM?

There are some very legitimate concerns about them and Antifa, surely it’s worth discussing instead of just rubbishing anyone that isn’t in full agreement?

As for the players taking the knee, no problem with it but it looks absolutely ridiculous in an empty stadium!

As long as people can see it, it doesn't matter where those people are.

[Moulin Yarns]

This is posted on twitter by a good Hibby.

9pm tonight I had this 6ft pole thrown through my kids bedroom window. We had a BLM placard on other window. 2 young guys about 5'8 wearing grey joggers grey tshirt hoody. One white, one "eastern". They ran towards Easter Rd. If anyone hears anything do get in touch. ****bags. https://t.co/ayp42R4pOS

[EAZY-ME]

[QUOTE=Moulin Yarns;6263280]This is posted on twitter by a good Hibby.

9pm tonight I had this 6ft pole thrown through my kids bedroom window. We had a BLM placard on other window. 2 young guys about 5'8 wearing grey joggers grey tshirt hoody. One white, one "eastern". They ran towards Easter Rd. If anyone hears anything do get in touch. ****bags.

That's just disgusting hopefully they are caught.... glad nobody was hurt

[hibby rae]

So people in BLM are in it for the money. Could think of a million other ways to do so.

You see a similar argument employed against climate activists. Didn't realise there was so much money to be made in these causes :rolleyes:

[Future17]

This is posted on twitter by a good Hibby.

9pm tonight I had this 6ft pole thrown through my kids bedroom window. We had a BLM placard on other window. 2 young guys about 5'8 wearing grey joggers grey tshirt hoody. One white, one "eastern". They ran towards Easter Rd. If anyone hears anything do get in touch. ****bags. https://t.co/ayp42R4pOS

That's beyond brainless. No exaggeration to say that could have killed somebody.

[K Kay]

Oh dear..and I thought you actually had depth of content ....now I realise you're just a hater...

I’m not a hater, you only have to look deeper into it to see the people involved in this, it’s the reason I said in my original post about dangerous groups and dangerous people.

I give you Susan Rosenberg for example. She is easily researched. Move on.org is another one.
Every name I’ve given is associated with BLM.
People are giving money to BLM thinking it’s going to support an issue they feel is a good one, and I have no problem with that but the reality is somewhat different.

[Bristolhibby]

Sorry is BLM a company?

How do you give money to a statement?

J

[snedzuk]

Sorry is BLM a company?

How do you give money to a statement?

J

https://secure.actblue.com/donate/ms_blm_homepage_2019

[hibby rae]

I’m not a hater, you only have to look deeper into it to see the people involved in this, it’s the reason I said in my original post about dangerous groups and dangerous people.

I give you Susan Rosenberg for example. She is easily researched. Move on.org is another one.
Every name I’ve given is associated with BLM.
People are giving money to BLM thinking it’s going to support an issue they feel is a good one, and I have no problem with that but the reality is somewhat different.


Slight tangent, whatever crimes she was convicted of, she served her sentence, the slate is wiped clean. So she is not a dangerous person. Also, there is evidence to suggest her punishment and subsequent treatment was politically motivated and amounted to torture. From the wiki page about her:

"Arrested for explosives possession in November 1984 after two years underground, she was convicted by a jury in March 1985, and given a 58-year-sentence. Supporters said this was sixteen times the national average for such offenses.[13] Her lawyers contend that, had the case not been politically charged, Rosenberg would have received a five-year sentence.[6]

Rosenberg was one of the first two inmates of the High Security Unit (HSU), a high-security isolation unit in the basement of the Federal Correctional Institution (currently the Federal Medical Center) in Lexington, Kentucky.[14][15][16] Allegations were made that the unit was an experimental underground political prison that practiced isolation and sensory deprivation .[17] The women were subject to 24-hour camera surveillance and frequent strip searches, and were given only limited access to visitors or to exercise.[18] After touring the unit, the American Civil Liberties Union denounced it as a "living tomb," and Amnesty International called it "deliberately and gratuitously oppressive."[19] After a lawsuit was brought by the ACLU and other organizations, the unit was ordered closed by a federal judge in 1988 and the prisoners transferred to regular cells.[14]

Rosenberg was transferred to various prisons around the country, in Florida, California and, finally, in Danbury, Connecticut. While in prison, she devoted herself to writing and to activism around AIDS, and obtained a master's degree from Antioch University.[9] Speaking at a 2007 forum, Rosenberg said that writing "became the mechanism by which to save my own sanity." She added that she began writing partly because the intense isolation of prison was threatening to cut her off completely from the real world and that she did not want to lose her connection to that world"

[hibby rae]

Why does everyone rubbish anything on YouTube about BLM?

There are some very legitimate concerns about them and Antifa, surely it’s worth discussing instead of just rubbishing anyone that isn’t in full agreement?

As for the players taking the knee, no problem with it but it looks absolutely ridiculous in an empty stadium!

Just in general, I would say youtube is more open to abuse and deception. Anyone can upload a video and make any number of completely untrue claims and present them as fact without any need to provide evidence to back up these claims.

If you watch one of these videos on youtube, you'll likely start to see more and more of them appear due to algorithms designed to keep you engaged, very easy to end up in a world of conspiracies with this being the only information (albeit possibly of a questionable nature) presented to you.

[snedzuk]

Slight tangent, whatever crimes she was convicted of, she served her sentence, the slate is wiped clean. So she is not a dangerous person. Also, there is evidence to suggest her punishment and subsequent treatment was politically motivated and amounted to torture. From the wiki page about her:

"Arrested for explosives possession in November 1984 after two years underground, she was convicted by a jury in March 1985, and given a 58-year-sentence. Supporters said this was sixteen times the national average for such offenses.[13] Her lawyers contend that, had the case not been politically charged, Rosenberg would have received a five-year sentence.[6]

Rosenberg was one of the first two inmates of the High Security Unit (HSU), a high-security isolation unit in the basement of the Federal Correctional Institution (currently the Federal Medical Center) in Lexington, Kentucky.[14][15][16] Allegations were made that the unit was an experimental underground political prison that practiced isolation and sensory deprivation .[17] The women were subject to 24-hour camera surveillance and frequent strip searches, and were given only limited access to visitors or to exercise.[18] After touring the unit, the American Civil Liberties Union denounced it as a "living tomb," and Amnesty International called it "deliberately and gratuitously oppressive."[19] After a lawsuit was brought by the ACLU and other organizations, the unit was ordered closed by a federal judge in 1988 and the prisoners transferred to regular cells.[14]

Rosenberg was transferred to various prisons around the country, in Florida, California and, finally, in Danbury, Connecticut. While in prison, she devoted herself to writing and to activism around AIDS, and obtained a master's degree from Antioch University.[9] Speaking at a 2007 forum, Rosenberg said that writing "became the mechanism by which to save my own sanity." She added that she began writing partly because the intense isolation of prison was threatening to cut her off completely from the real world and that she did not want to lose her connection to that world"

Strictly speaking, she didn't serve her sentence. She was convicted of explosives and weapons possession and sentenced to 58 years, but was released after 16 by presidential pardon on Bill Clintons last day in office.

[snedzuk]

Just in general, I would say youtube is more open to abuse and deception. Anyone can upload a video and make any number of completely untrue claims and present them as fact without any need to provide evidence to back up these claims.

If you watch one of these videos on youtube, you'll likely start to see more and more of them appear due to algorithms designed to keep you engaged, very easy to end up in a world of conspiracies with this being the only information (albeit possibly of a questionable nature) presented to you.

This is certainly true, but it cuts both ways - and on the previous post about Susan Rosenborg and the wiki entry, wiki entries can be easily modded. The only truth (it seems to me) is that no-one actually know what the truth is.

[bigwheel]

I’m not a hater, you only have to look deeper into it to see the people involved in this, it’s the reason I said in my original post about dangerous groups and dangerous people.

I give you Susan Rosenberg for example. She is easily researched. Move on.org is another one.
Every name I’ve given is associated with BLM.
People are giving money to BLM thinking it’s going to support an issue they feel is a good one, and I have no problem with that but the reality is somewhat different.


Rosenberg has been out of prison for 20 years...she has devoted herself as an activist to great causes since then. You seem to be offended (or perhaps terrified?) of anyone who has radical political ideals?

[Mon Dieu4]

Just in general, I would say youtube is more open to abuse and deception. Anyone can upload a video and make any number of completely untrue claims and present them as fact without any need to provide evidence to back up these claims.

If you watch one of these videos on youtube, you'll likely start to see more and more of them appear due to algorithms designed to keep you engaged, very easy to end up in a world of conspiracies with this being the only information (albeit possibly of a questionable nature) presented to you.

That's the thing about the YouTube algorithm, it's great when you are genuinely interested in topics and helps you find new things, the downside is every now and then I will watch something from the far right or some conspiracy theory just to see what's going on, then the algorithm assumes you are about to strap on some jack boots and goose step all over the place and suggesting all sorts :rolleyes:

You can get some classics though, right now and don't ask me why I'm watching this or how I found it, but in Texas there are two major Bomb Shelter companies who are currently having an Internet spat about who's shelters are better and who has shoddy workmanship, tremendous viewing :agree:

[hibby rae]

Strictly speaking, she didn't serve her sentence. She was convicted of explosives and weapons possession and sentenced to 58 years, but was released after 16 by presidential pardon on Bill Clintons last day in office.

The article does claim it was sixteen times the national average for similar offences though. She didn't serve the initial sentence. But most convicted criminals rarely do. If someone is sentenced to 10 years in prison and then they are paroled after 5, they've still done their time in the eyes of the law. As Susan Rosenberg did.

After that, it's year zero for them. The whole point of the criminal justice system.

[hibby rae]

This is certainly true, but it cuts both ways - and on the previous post about Susan Rosenborg and the wiki entry, wiki entries can be easily modded. The only truth (it seems to me) is that no-one actually know what the truth is.

I'd say wiki is more reliable, from my own experience anyway. Not every article but if they are properly cited, as an academic document would be. I've also noticed in the past wiki will highlight when claims are made which haven't been substantiated.

[EAZY-ME]

Meanwhile as blm and antifa continue to "protest" businesses in american cities are being looted and burned with many of them being black owned businesses. In chicago alone homicides up 139% with 107 murders including children and another 573 shot. In Minneapolis police chiefs have told residents to expect to be robbed and to comply with criminals. Im not making this up. Its horrifying.. whatever blm started as its turning into something else......there is plenty footage on YouTube and regardless who uploaded it the footage doesn't lie. This information is coming from police chiefs and other high ranking officials.

[hibby rae]

Meanwhile as blm and antifa continue to "protest" businesses in american cities are being looted and burned with many of them being black owned businesses. In chicago alone homicides up 139% with 107 murders including children and another 573 shot. In Minneapolis police chiefs have told residents to expect to be robbed and to comply with criminals. Im not making this up. Its horrifying.. whatever blm started as its turning into something else......there is plenty footage on YouTube and regardless who uploaded it the footage doesn't lie. This information is coming from police chiefs and other high ranking officials.

That's just it though, footage can be used to give a different impression.

The looters for example, clearly there have been people who have taken advantage of the situation to loot. But they aren't BLM protestors, they don't identify as 'antifa'. They are exploiting the situation. But are then BLM etc. are labelled as something they are not.

One of the main things I was taught doing my history degree at uni was how to critique information.

- What is the source?
- Who is providing the source? E.g. background, political beliefs.
- Who is their intended audience?
- What are they hoping to achieve?
- Is there anything they are missing out?

[bigwheel]

Meanwhile as blm and antifa continue to "protest" businesses in american cities are being looted and burned with many of them being black owned businesses. In chicago alone homicides up 139% with 107 murders including children and another 573 shot. In Minneapolis police chiefs have told residents to expect to be robbed and to comply with criminals. Im not making this up. Its horrifying.. whatever blm started as its turning into something else......there is plenty footage on YouTube and regardless who uploaded it the footage doesn't lie. This information is coming from police chiefs and other high ranking officials.


Just so I understand you - you are implying that BLM protestors are behind an increase in homicides in Chicago and other serious crime increases?

[EAZY-ME]

Just so I understand you - you are implying that BLM protestors are behind an increase in homicides in Chicago and other serious crime increases?

There's people holding up signs saying blm and no justice no peace and spray painting blm and all sorts of other slogans all over the places being attacked....... maybe they are disguised as blm protesters or even hiding among them

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/secoriea-turner-eight-year-old-girl-among-several-children-shot-dead-over-independence-day-weekend-12022188

Can i just add i put hyphens beside "protesters"...im implying nothing......cheers

[bigwheel]

There's people holding up signs saying blm and no justice no peace and spray painting blm and all sorts of other slogans all over the places being attacked....... maybe they are disguised as blm protesters or even hiding among them

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/secoriea-turner-eight-year-old-girl-among-several-children-shot-dead-over-independence-day-weekend-12022188

Can i just add i put hyphens beside "protesters"...im implying nothing......cheers

How does that relate to the serious crime figures you are quoting ?

[EAZY-ME]

How does that relate to the serious crime figures you are quoting ?

They are claiming these figures are since the beginning of the George floyd protests... they also tried to burn down a police station whilst the officers were trapped inside

[bigwheel]

They are claiming these figures are since the beginning of the George floyd protests... they also tried to burn down a police station whilst the officers were trapped inside

But why is it BLM the cause of greater homicides? There could be many reasons (lockdown? right wing groups? multiple factors etc) ...Why wasn't your starting post criticising the police (who are responsible for keeping control of control on crime) instead of implicating the BLM movement?

[EAZY-ME]

But why is it BLM the cause of greater homicides? There could be many reasons (lockdown? right wing groups? multiple factors etc) ...Why wasn't your starting post criticising the police (who are responsible for keeping control of control on crime) instead of implicating the BLM movement?

The police have been under attack from these protesters. They have had frozen water bottles thrown at them along with other missiles. The police have also had mass walkouts and officers taking early retirement in response to them being defunded. As i said earlier they tried to burn a police station whilst officers were inside.

[MKHIBEE]

The police have been under attack from these protesters. They have had frozen water bottles thrown at them along with other missiles. The police have also had mass walkouts and officers taking early retirement in response to them being defunded. As i said earlier they tried to burn a police station whilst officers were inside.

Which forces have been defunded? And why would officers taking early retirement try to burn down a police station?

[Kato]

The police have been under attack from these protesters. They have had frozen water bottles thrown at them along with other missiles. The police have also had mass walkouts and officers taking early retirement in response to them being defunded. As i said earlier they tried to burn a police station whilst officers were inside.

If only more tax dollars were being spent.

[AT8]

Which forces have been defunded? And why would officers taking early retirement try to burn down a police station?

Are you being serious? The BLM "protestors" attempted to burn down the Police station with officers inside in Minneapolis.

All over the country, the Police have been defunded in an act of virtue signaling by weak leadership. NYC alone has withdrawn one BILLION dollars of Police funding and guess what that results in?..........record levels of crime and murder. Which community is hurt the most by this increased level of crime? That's right, the black community.

[bigwheel]

The police have been under attack from these protesters. They have had frozen water bottles thrown at them along with other missiles. The police have also had mass walkouts and officers taking early retirement in response to them being defunded. As i said earlier they tried to burn a police station whilst officers were inside.

Yes , sure the protestors are angry..but that has no relation to homicide rates increasing and children being shot at ..your arguments don’t have any logic to them. You’re worried about increasing crime rates and are pinpointing those most affected by them.

[bigwheel]

Are you being serious? The BLM "protestors" attempted to burn down the Police station with officers inside in Minneapolis.

All over the country, the Police have been defunded in an act of virtue signaling by weak leadership. NYC alone has withdrawn one BILLION dollars of Police funding and guess what that results in?..........record levels of crime and murder. Which community is hurt the most by this increased level of crime? That's right, the black community.


The budget shift of $1b was only approved in early July when crime and shootings were already rising. Nowhere near record levels by the way. It was not well received on either side of the debate.

[AT8]

The budget shift of $1b was only approved in early July when crime and shootings were already rising. Nowhere near record levels by the way. It was not well received on either side of the debate.

OK, so that makes the decision even worse. Trust me, the decision to defund was received very well by the Left and they continue to push for this.

[bigwheel]

OK, so that makes the decision even worse. Trust me, the decision to defund was received very well by the Left and they continue to push for this.

it wasn't' well received by the left...was well covered in news at the time, and continues to be. They see it as merely a budget shift, not supported by them.

[EAZY-ME]

Which forces have been defunded? And why would officers taking early retirement try to burn down a police station?

the protesters tried to burn down the station

Go to YouTube type in ...

ingraham: democrat cities inplode

.........i cant Post the link

[AT8]

it wasn't' well received by the left...was well covered in news at the time, and continues to be. They see it as merely a budget shift, not supported by them.

But the cities that are defunding the Police are all Democrat lead cities, so are you suggesting that they aren't happy with the policies they are putting through?

[hibsbollah]

the protesters tried to burn down the station

Go to YouTube type in ...ingraham democrat cities inplode.........i cant Post the link

Trump is historically unpopular and his last desperate plan is to create a bull**** narrative of an enemy within, and linking these scary people with the Democrats. BLM LAWFUL protestors have been overwhelmingly the victims of police violence, not the other way around. To be honest I think most of you on that ‘side’ of the argument know that fine well, and you just go along with the BS because you don’t want change. It’s not surprising.

[bigwheel]

But the cities that are defunding the Police are all Democrat lead cities, so are you suggesting that they aren't happy with the policies they are putting through?

I was talking about NYC in response to your post.

[AT8]

I was talking about NYC in response to your post.

Yes, and NYC is overwhelmingly Democrat lead so when I say the Democrats are very much in favor of defunding the Police, it's true.

[bigwheel]

Yes, and NYC is overwhelmingly Democrat lead so when I say the Democrats are very much in favor of defunding the Police, it's true.

That’s true. But not the point you made ..your point was about reducing budget ....

[EAZY-ME]

Trump is historically unpopular and his last desperate plan is to create a bull**** narrative of an enemy within, and linking these scary people with the Democrats. BLM LAWFUL protestors have been overwhelmingly the victims of police violence, not the other way around. To be honest I think most of you on that ‘side’ of the argument know that fine well, and you just go along with the BS because you don’t want change. It’s not surprising.

Im not actually on any "side" but you lot on that "side" will argue blind.. even though the evidence is in front of you...... any hoo im off to get my tea and watch the game

[hibsbollah]

Im not actually on any "side" but you lot on that "side" will argue blind.. even though the evidence is in front of you...... any hoo im off to get my tea and watch the game

You SO are :faf:

Enjoy the game.

[MKHIBEE]

Are you being serious? The BLM "protestors" attempted to burn down the Police station with officers inside in Minneapolis.

All over the country, the Police have been defunded in an act of virtue signaling by weak leadership. NYC alone has withdrawn one BILLION dollars of Police funding and guess what that results in?..........record levels of crime and murder. Which community is hurt the most by this increased level of crime? That's right, the black community.

Ok, the bit about burning down the station was tongue in cheek, it was the way the comment was phrased in the quoted text. As for defunded, I make a distinction between defunded ( no funds whatsoever) and budget cuts which any government or council etc do all the time, you don’t need to look far for an example.

[K Kay]

Im not in least bit surprised that BLM use various companies to ensure that they have the expertise and contacts available to maximise their fund raising activities and that funds raised can be used by companies who are able to deliver the BLM objectives as outlined by themselves. It’s a bit like HSL providing funds for Hibernian FC. Attempting to achieve a common goal

But Hibs get all the money, you have to follow it through to see where it goes. You have to look further than wiki and YouTube.

[Hibbyradge]

But Hibs get all the money, you have to follow it through to see where it goes. You have to look further than wiki and YouTube.

Where should we look?

[K Kay]

Where should we look?

I’ve named them previously, all companies have records.

[Hibbyradge]

I’ve named them previously, all companies have records.

I haven't been hanging on your every word, nor anyone else's.

It probably would have taken less keystrokes to type the site names than what you did write.

Oh well...

[MKHIBEE]

But Hibs get all the money, you have to follow it through to see where it goes. You have to look further than wiki and YouTube.

Trust me, any information I gather about BLM and associated parties does not come from from wiki leaks or you tube.
Act blue have previously stated that any donations made through them goes straight to whoever the donor intends it for.
That sounds reasonable enough to me. Perhaps you could enlighten us and tell us where the money trail leads. All I’m seeing is it leading to organisations who can help them achieve their aims.

[Keith_M]

"As Yasmin Miller drove home from a laundromat in Chicago’s Englewood neighborhood last weekend, a gunman in another car peppered her red Hyundai sedan with bullets, grazing her head and striking her son, Sincere Gaston, in the chest. Sincere died in his car seat. He was 20 months old.

On June 20, a man fired gunshots through the back of a dark blue S.U.V., wounding the 27-year-old man driving and hitting his stepson, Mekhi James, in the back, killing him. Mekhi was 3.

In all, nine children under 18 have been killed since June 20 as Chicago reels from another wave of gun violence. The last two were killed on Saturday evening. A 14-year-old boy was shot to death on Chicago’s South Side. A 7-year-old girl was struck in the forehead by a bullet when three gunmen opened fire on a July 4 street party on the city’s West Side, the police said.

Two girls, both aged 3, were hospitalized with gunshot wounds in separate incidents in recent days — one after her mother thought she heard fireworks and turned around to see her daughter collapsed on the ground.

...

Ahead of the July 4 weekend, Mayor Lori Lightfoot made an appeal to young men, who she said were responsible for the bulk of the shootings. “Think about the number of children that have been killed just in the last two weeks,” she said at a news conference. “Families that will not recover from this hardship. Mothers’ hearts that are broken, fathers’ hearts that are destroyed, grandparents who are living in mourning.” "

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings.html



Surely no one can argue with the sentiment that Black Lives Matter, but these people don't seem to think that ANY lives matter.

[K Kay]

I haven't been hanging on your every word, nor anyone else's.

It probably would have taken less keystrokes to type the site names than what you did write.

Oh well...
opensecrets.org

[McD]

They are claiming these figures are since the beginning of the George floyd protests... they also tried to burn down a police station whilst the officers were trapped inside


Are you being serious? The BLM "protestors" attempted to burn down the Police station with officers inside in Minneapolis.

All over the country, the Police have been defunded in an act of virtue signaling by weak leadership. NYC alone has withdrawn one BILLION dollars of Police funding and guess what that results in?..........record levels of crime and murder. Which community is hurt the most by this increased level of crime? That's right, the black community.



How do we know that it was BLM protestors who tried to burn down a police station?

Isn't equally as likely, possibly more so, that criminals who have serious beef with police took advantage of an opportunity presented by mass protests to target the police? And extending that thought, that it fits the narrative of some people/groups (not pointing the finger at either of you btw) to pin the blame on BLM, to discredit them and the message behind the protests?

[#2 Double Tap]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDQ7B6ePuvE&list=RDXDQ7B6ePuvE&start_radio =1

[CropleyWasGod]

opensecrets.org

They are partly funded by OSF, who are George Soros' charitable foundation.

In many people's eyes, that makes them (at least) controversial and untrustworthy.

Also, there are no Annual Reports beyond 2016.

[K Kay]

Trust me, any information I gather about BLM and associated parties does not come from from wiki leaks or you tube.
Act blue have previously stated that any donations made through them goes straight to whoever the donor intends it for.
That sounds reasonable enough to me. Perhaps you could enlighten us and tell us where the money trail leads. All I’m seeing is it leading to organisations who can help them achieve their aims.
That's not true, they give the BLM money to A Thousand Currents.

[bigwheel]

That's not true, they give the BLM money to A Thousand Currents.

Thousand Current acted as financial sponsors and a managed service provider for BLM. Last year they stopped providing that service, not just for BLM for all that they did it for.... They remain fully supporting BLM cause though..what’s your issue with them or BLM?

[K Kay]

They are partly funded by OSF, who are George Soros' charitable foundation.

In many people's eyes, that makes them (at least) controversial and untrustworthy.

Also, there are no Annual Reports beyond 2016.
Thats correct about Soros, however you can find the companies I've mentioned records on any site you wish to explore. You can find any years records you want though, I found them.
Nice to see a reasond response however.

[wpj]

Having watched Blakkklansman yesterday, I was in tears. I have taken the knee, I live in a white suburb of Cambridge but I lived in Hackney and Walthamstow in London for years and enjoyed many fun times and, not such fun times as I watched a black dude being beaten with pool cues. I couldn't help and that will be a burden for me to live with forever.Yes, I will take the knee and stand side by side with anyone to show solidarity to anyone, regardless of colour, religion,or anything else. If I ever lose that ability to empathise with anyone then I have lost the abilty to be human.

[Rocky]

Having watched Blakkklansman yesterday, I was in tears. I have taken the knee, I live in a white suburb of Cambridge but I lived in Hackney and Walthamstow in London for years and enjoyed many fun times and, not such fun times as I watched a black dude being beaten with pool cues. I couldn't help and that will be a burden for me to live with forever.Yes, I will take the knee and stand side by side with anyone to show solidarity to anyone, regardless of colour, religion,or anything else. If I ever lose that inability to empathise with anyone then I have lost the abilty to be human.
Thanks for posting, this is what Black Lives Matter is really about. It's disappointing to see the message being lost down a rabbit hole about funding and backing for an organisation, when the fundamentals are about what you've highlighted, not about any organisation. Unfortunately the far right have been able to use this tactic very effectively to subvert the core message.

[hibsbollah]

Thanks for posting, this is what Black Lives Matter is really about. It's disappointing to see the message being lost down a rabbit hole about funding and backing for an organisation, when the fundamentals are about what you've highlighted, not about any organisation. Unfortunately the far right have been able to use this tactic very effectively to subvert the core message.

:top marks
BLM is a movement that should move anyone on a human level, regardless of background.
The funding rabbit hole is BS, created by people who want to distract people from the message because they don’t want change.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thats correct about Soros, however you can find the companies I've mentioned records on any site you wish to explore. You can find any years records you want though, I found them.
Nice to see a reasond response however.

You can't find anything for that organisation, though, beyond 2016. That makes them unreliable for me.

I also looked through the accounts (over 30 pages of them) of the Tides Foundation for mention of BLM. Couldn't see one.

[EAZY-ME]

:top marks
BLM is a movement that should move anyone on a human level, regardless of background.
The funding rabbit hole is BS, created by people who want to distract people from the message because they don’t want change.

So what is the message now? ....as it seems to be changing all the time

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/12406818/blm-activists-seattle-white-residents-give-up-homes/amp/

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/08/11/speaker_at_black_lives_matter_defends_looting_this _is_reparations_businesses_have_insurance.html

[hibsbollah]

So what is the message now? ....as it seems to be changing all the time

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/12406818/blm-activists-seattle-white-residents-give-up-homes/amp/

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/08/11/speaker_at_black_lives_matter_defends_looting_this _is_reparations_businesses_have_insurance.html

Get your foot off his neck, basically, it’s not difficult

[bigwheel]

So what is the message now? ....as it seems to be changing all the time

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/12406818/blm-activists-seattle-white-residents-give-up-homes/amp/

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/08/11/speaker_at_black_lives_matter_defends_looting_this _is_reparations_businesses_have_insurance.html

Do you need a message ?? Is it confusing you ? How about we all should be nice and fair to everyone ?

[EAZY-ME]

Do you need a message ?? Is it confusing you ? How about we all should be nice and fair to everyone ?

So is marching on neighbourhoods demanding white people give up thier homes to black people nice and fair....i agree with the sentiment that black lives matter however this movement is turning into a hate group

[Rocky]

So is marching on neighbourhoods demanding white people give up thier homes to black people nice and fair....i agree with the sentiment that black lives matter however this movement is turning into a hate group

Leaving aside your concerns about Black Lives Matter as an organisation do you agree that we should be fighting racism? If so is there a particular reason you're trying to undermine the message in this country using whataboutery from another country?

[EAZY-ME]

Leaving aside your concerns about Black Lives Matter as an organisation do you agree that we should be fighting racism? If so is there a particular reason you're trying to undermine the message in this country using whataboutery from another country?

We should all be at against racism... that shouldnt even be a thing anymore. As someone that's suffered racial abuse its a horrible thing. Yes it's happening in another country but look what's happened down south recently. Supporting this movement is dangerous and we shouldn't be seen to support this movement. We already had show racism the red card in Football so why not carry on with that.

[Rocky]

We should all be at against racism... that shouldnt even be a thing anymore. As someone that's suffered racial abuse its a horrible thing. Yes it's happening in another country but look what's happened down south recently. Supporting this movement is dangerous and we shouldn't be seen to support this movement. We already had show racism the red card in Football so why not carry on with that.

Scottish football IS still carrying on with SRTRC.

[CropleyWasGod]

We should all be at against racism... that shouldnt even be a thing anymore. As someone that's suffered racial abuse its a horrible thing. Yes it's happening in another country but look what's happened down south recently. Supporting this movement is dangerous and we shouldn't be seen to support this movement. We already had show racism the red card in Football so why not carry on with that.

We are.

[bigwheel]

So is marching on neighbourhoods demanding white people give up thier homes to black people nice and fair....i agree with the sentiment that black lives matter however this movement is turning into a hate group

That’s what you focus on ? A whole race is suffering abuse, inequality, murdered at the hands of police going about their everyday lives and you care about the nature of the protests ... get some perspective...

[AT8]

That’s what you focus on ? A whole race is suffering abuse, inequality, murdered at the hands of police going about their everyday lives and you care about the nature of the protests ... get some perspective...

I can't let this line slide. They are NOT being murdered by police for no reason. Look past the headlines and you will see that 99.9% of the time, the shootings were justified. Furthermore, it was only last week that the entire body cam footage of the George Floyd arrest was released (I wonder why it took so long?) which showed him high as a kite on a lethal cocktail of deadly drugs and resisting arrest - NONE OF WHICH WAS JUSTIFICATION FOR HAVING A KNEE STUCK IN HIS NECK FOR 8 MINUTES - but it does go to show what the police officers have to deal with. Take the killing of Rayshard Brooks as another example where it was presented that he was killed for the crime of sleeping in his car when in actual fact, he resisted arrest, fought with the officers, stole a taser and then fired it at the officer.

I agree 100% that we need to eradicate racism, but let's not distort the facts to suit a particular agenda.

[hibsbollah]

I can't let this line slide. They are NOT being murdered by police for no reason. Look past the headlines and you will see that 99.9% of the time, the shootings were justified. Furthermore, it was only last week that the entire body cam footage of the George Floyd arrest was released (I wonder why it took so long?) which showed him high as a kite on a lethal cocktail of deadly drugs and resisting arrest - NONE OF WHICH WAS JUSTIFICATION FOR HAVING A KNEE STUCK IN HIS NECK FOR 8 MINUTES - but it does go to show what the police officers have to deal with. Take the killing of Rayshard Brooks as another example where it was presented that he was killed for the crime of sleeping in his car when in actual fact, he resisted arrest, fought with the officers, stole a taser and then fired it at the officer.

I agree 100% that we need to eradicate racism, but let's not distort the facts to suit a particular agenda.

Those misdemeanors are NOT a reason for being killed. Hence they are being killed for no reason.
Youre doing a really terrible job of making your case.

[Berwickhibby]

Those misdemeanors are NOT a reason for being killed. Hence they are being killed for no reason.
Youre doing a really terrible job of making your case.

Perhaps in America...but here in the UK ...more police officers have been murdered by criminals

[AT8]

Those misdemeanors are NOT a reason for being killed. Hence they are being killed for no reason.
Youre doing a really terrible job of making your case.

I agreed that the crimes George Floyd was guilty of did not justify him being murdered, I was pointing out that the police are not driving around looking for innocent black men to gun down.

[Moulin Yarns]

Perhaps in America...but here in the UK ...more police officers have been murdered by criminals

Might be a different matter if the police were armed though.

[Berwickhibby]

Might be a different matter if the police were armed though.

I personally hope that the British Police are never routinely armed

[RIP]

Enough of the funding tunnel. It’s irrelevant to Black Lives Matter Scotland.

Today in Bonnyrigg, Hibs boys joined with fans of other clubs (Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and others) to stand in defence of Debora Kayembe who has suffered racist abuse and have to move home. The community came out in force, the speakers (2 Hibs boys amongst them) were great and Debora’s 15 year old daughter gave a moving account of her experiences.

Since June the membership of FLAF Scotland has increased five fold. Supporters who were previously non-racists are now active anti-racists. Solidarity between black and white is the best way to show racism the red card.

[#2 Double Tap]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHLzKfsaCB0&list=RDgHLzKfsaCB0&start_radio =1


BOB MARLEY. 1969.

[Hibrandenburg]

I agreed that the crimes George Floyd was guilty of did not justify him being murdered, I was pointing out that the police are not driving around looking for innocent black men to gun down.

Some of them obviously are.

[AT8]

Some of them obviously are.

Just to be clear, are you saying that the police drive around looking for innocent black men (and by innocent, I mean not engaging in criminal activity) and randomly open fire?

[Hibrandenburg]

Just to be clear, are you saying that the police drive around looking for innocent black men (and by innocent, I mean not engaging in criminal activity) and randomly open fire?

No, I'm saying that there are some with a badge in the USA who are inherently racist, are members of racist organisations and would not think twice about shooting a black man dead if the opportunity arose to do so and they thought they could get away with it.

Are you saying there isn't?

[bigwheel]

I can't let this line slide. They are NOT being murdered by police for no reason. Look past the headlines and you will see that 99.9% of the time, the shootings were justified. Furthermore, it was only last week that the entire body cam footage of the George Floyd arrest was released (I wonder why it took so long?) which showed him high as a kite on a lethal cocktail of deadly drugs and resisting arrest - NONE OF WHICH WAS JUSTIFICATION FOR HAVING A KNEE STUCK IN HIS NECK FOR 8 MINUTES - but it does go to show what the police officers have to deal with. Take the killing of Rayshard Brooks as another example where it was presented that he was killed for the crime of sleeping in his car when in actual fact, he resisted arrest, fought with the officers, stole a taser and then fired it at the officer.

I agree 100% that we need to eradicate racism, but let's not distort the facts to suit a particular agenda.

Your reply disproves the point you are trying to make.. just because someone is high or even resisting arrest , just because police may be having a complex situation - it does not justify murdering people - which is what they did to George Floyd. What police have to deal with they are highly trained for - they should be held accountable. there are many examples of police ending up killing innocent people without provocation . Rayshard Brooks had had a 7 minute gentle conversation with the police before he resisted arrest for a minor crime, which was drunk driving by the way. He stole an already used taser that was not fatal by that time , was shot 6+ times in his back running away, was kicked on the ground by one of the policemen while lying dying. you again project blame only to the victims. It is proven that there is racism in the police and the system - if you remain disputing that then you are blinded by your views.

[neil7908]

Just to be clear, are you saying that the police drive around looking for innocent black men (and by innocent, I mean not engaging in criminal activity) and randomly open fire?

The events surrounding the death of Breonna Taylor would suggest this is pretty close to being the case. Neither she nor the gentlemen with her in the property have ultimately been implicated in any criminal activity. They had their door battered down in the middle of the night and she was shot 8 times.

[Moulin Yarns]

I personally hope that the British Police are never routinely armed

Not even for "defence" 😉

[MKHIBEE]

I can't let this line slide. They are NOT being murdered by police for no reason. Look past the headlines and you will see that 99.9% of the time, the shootings were justified. Furthermore, it was only last week that the entire body cam footage of the George Floyd arrest was released (I wonder why it took so long?) which showed him high as a kite on a lethal cocktail of deadly drugs and resisting arrest - NONE OF WHICH WAS JUSTIFICATION FOR HAVING A KNEE STUCK IN HIS NECK FOR 8 MINUTES - but it does go to show what the police officers have to deal with. Take the killing of Rayshard Brooks as another example where it was presented that he was killed for the crime of sleeping in his car when in actual fact, he resisted arrest, fought with the officers, stole a taser and then fired it at the officer.

I agree 100% that we need to eradicate racism, but let's not distort the facts to suit a particular agenda.
This figure is substantiated where? Or is it your own made up one

[Moulin Yarns]

This figure is substantiated where? Or is it your own made up one

And, justified by whom? The KKK?

[easty]

The events surrounding the death of Breonna Taylor would suggest this is pretty close to being the case. Neither she nor the gentlemen with her in the property have ultimately been implicated in any criminal activity. They had their door battered down in the middle of the night and she was shot 8 times.

I’ve read up about that story previously...the police had a warrant to knock down the door and when they did they were shot at through the bedroom door. If they hadn’t been shot at, they wouldn’t have been shooting back.

Whether the police information leading to the warrant was good info or not, the police had the right to go in...and were shot at.

It’s a tragedy what happened, but it’s America...the police are gonna shoot back. It shouldn’t have happened, and it wouldn’t if the suspect didn’t fire a weapon first.

[hibsbollah]

I’ve read up about that story previously...the police had a warrant to knock down the door and when they did they were shot at through the bedroom door. If they hadn’t been shot at, they wouldn’t have been shooting back.

Whether the police information leading to the warrant was good info or not, the police had the right to go in...and were shot at.

It’s a tragedy what happened, but it’s America...the police are gonna shoot back. It shouldn’t have happened, and it wouldn’t if the suspect didn’t fire a weapon first.

The police story is disputed by the dead woman’s family, who said the father fired his legal gun in self defence assuming it was burglars. The police beat down the door without warning and shot a sleeping innocent woman dead. All charges against the father were thrown out.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html

[easty]

The police story is disputed by the dead woman’s family, who said the father fired his legal gun in self defence assuming it was burglars. The police beat down the door without warning and shot a sleeping innocent woman dead. All charges against the father were thrown out.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html

They had a warrant to beat the door down without warning.

The same thing wouldve happened if the suspects were white.

[Moulin Yarns]

They had a warrant to beat the door down without warning.

The same thing wouldve happened if the suspects were white.

I doubt that, even in the USA. There should have been warnings that the police were about to break the door down. Also, and I have no idea what the justifications were, but should the police not have tried to gain entry by 'lawful' means first?

EDIT: I've read the NYTimes article. So many holes in the police account.

[hibsbollah]

They had a warrant to beat the door down without warning.

The same thing wouldve happened if the suspects were white.

I can’t seriously believe we’re having a debate about whether the Breanna Taylor killing was justified :faf: I’m not even engaging with that.

[easty]

I can’t seriously believe we’re having a debate about whether the Breanna Taylor killing was justified :faf: I’m not even engaging with that.

It’s obviously not “justified”, but the police didn’t shoot first. If Beeanna Taylor’s partner doesn’t shoot, she’s still alive today.

[Moulin Yarns]

It’s obviously not “justified”, but the police didn’t shoot first. If Beeanna Taylor’s partner doesn’t shoot, she’s still alive today.

If the police had not broken the door down.... she’s still alive today.

If the police had been more proactive in their investigations...she’s still alive today.

If the judge had issued a search warrand and not a do what the **** you please warrant...she’s still alive today.

[easty]

If the police had not broken the door down.... she’s still alive today.

If the police had been more proactive in their investigations...she’s still alive today.

If the judge had issued a search warrand and not a do what the **** you please warrant...she’s still alive today.

Which part of that was illegal?

The shooting at police.

[Future17]

Which part of that was illegal?

The shooting at police.

Was that illegal in the circumstances?

[Moulin Yarns]

Which part of that was illegal?

The shooting at police.

Self defence with a legally licenced weapon. Charged with attempted murder then all charges dropped.

But it's OK because the police are above the law in the USA. Fortunately the negative publicity has forced their hand.


On June 23, the Louisville Metro Police Department released a letter of termination that it sent to Brett Hankison, the former officer who “blindly fired” 10 rounds into a covered patio door and a window, according to the termination letter.
Chief Robert Schroeder accused Mr. Hankison of violating the Police Department’s policy on use of deadly force, saying his actions were “a shock to the conscience” that discredited the Police Department.

[Berwickhibby]

Not even for "defence" 😉

Lol 😂... a baton, spray or asp for defence will suffice. I don't even agree with the routine carrying of taser. I do support the availability of highly trained armed officers being able to attend incidents where weapons are involved.

[easty]

Was that illegal in the circumstances?

Isn’t it illegal in all circumstances?

[silverhibee]

Has there been many convictions in America of police officers killing black people while on duty.?

[neil7908]

Which part of that was illegal?

The shooting at police.

It's absolutely not illegal in the circumstances. Hence why no charges were filed against the partner who shot at them.

The point I was responding to was that the police in America weren't just going around shooting at innocent back people. That's exactly what happened here - an innocent black woman died at the hands of police gunfire

There is a also a lot of evidence that the police action was reckless - bullets fired into neighbours homes, deciding to break down a door without announcing themselves in the middle of the night, lying on the reports etc.

[MKHIBEE]

They had a warrant to beat the door down without warning.

The same thing wouldve happened if the suspects were white.
You cannot possibly know that would be the case

[easty]

You cannot possibly know that would be the case

You can’t possibly know it wouldn’t. What’s your point?

[easty]

It's absolutely not illegal in the circumstances. Hence why no charges were filed against the partner who shot at them.

The point I was responding to was that the police in America weren't just going around shooting at innocent back people. That's exactly what happened here - an innocent black woman died at the hands of police gunfire

There is a also a lot of evidence that the police action was reckless - bullets fired into neighbours homes, deciding to break down a door without announcing themselves in the middle of the night, lying on the reports etc.

The warrant they had gave them the right to go in without announcing themselves. If it didn’t then I’d not be defending the police.

From the information I’ve read, they turned up with a no-knock warrant, and were shot at through the bedroom door, they returned fire.

Trying to make this about the officers being racist is bending the truth, in my opinion.

Ive no doubt there are police officers in America who are racist, and who abuse their power to get away with being racist. When a black person is killed by a police officer, whether they’re completely innocent or not, it doesn’t automatically become a racist incident. Sometimes it’s just a ****ty thing that’s happened. You say an “innocent black women died”, I say an innocent women died, and it’s not because she was black (or at least I’ve seen absolutely nothing to suggest it was).

[AT8]

You cannot possibly know that would be the case

Do you really think that if the Police are under gunfire, they're going to pause and say, "maybe we shouldn't return fire because the shooter is white"?

[Moulin Yarns]

Do you really think that if the Police are under gunfire, they're going to pause and say, "maybe we shouldn't return fire because the shooter is white"?

I think the comment you are replying to is in reference to the breaking down of the door, not to the shooting of the occupant.

[Moulin Yarns]

Lol 😂... a baton, spray or asp for defence will suffice. I don't even agree with the routine carrying of taser. I do support the availability of highly trained armed officers being able to attend incidents where weapons are involved.

Are you saying police use venous snakes for defense???

[AT8]

I've seen a number of posters using the example of Breonna Taylor as Police going out of their way to shoot an innocent black person. What happened to her was absolutely tragic and yes, she was the innocent victim of a police shooting but using her as an example is stretching things. The Police had a warrant to search the place, they did not just decide to show up and shoot her because she was black.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get across is that the Police do not target black people because of the color of their skin. If someone can provide an example of a Police Officer walking up to a black person who is either not engaged in criminal activity or is not a bystander during an investigation into criminal activity, I will issue a heartfelt apology and say I got this one wrong.

[AT8]

I think the comment you are replying to is in reference to the breaking down of the door, not to the shooting of the occupant.

OK, well in that case, of course the Police conduct no knock warrants on white people.

[Moulin Yarns]

I've seen a number of posters using the example of Breonna Taylor as Police going out of their way to shoot an innocent black person. What happened to her was absolutely tragic and yes, she was the innocent victim of a police shooting but using her as an example is stretching things. The Police had a warrant to search the place, they did not just decide to show up and shoot her because she was black.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get across is that the Police do not target black people because of the color of their skin. If someone can provide an example of a Police Officer walking up to a black person who is either not engaged in criminal activity or is not a bystander during an investigation into criminal activity, I will issue a heartfelt apology and say I got this one wrong.



https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/12/public-inquiry-ordered-sheku-bayoh-death-in-custody-kirkcaldy-2015?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15975959748232&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2***-news%2F2019%2Fnov%2F12%2Fpublic-inquiry-ordered-sheku-bayoh-death-in-custody-kirkcaldy-2015

[Berwickhibby]

Are you saying police use venous snakes for defense???

Once again your attempt at humour fails drastically, an asp is a collapsible baton as opposed to a rigid long baton.

[Moulin Yarns]

I've seen a number of posters using the example of Breonna Taylor as Police going out of their way to shoot an innocent black person. What happened to her was absolutely tragic and yes, she was the innocent victim of a police shooting but using her as an example is stretching things. The Police had a warrant to search the place, they did not just decide to show up and shoot her because she was black.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get across is that the Police do not target black people because of the color of their skin. If someone can provide an example of a Police Officer walking up to a black person who is either not engaged in criminal activity or is not a bystander during an investigation into criminal activity, I will issue a heartfelt apology and say I got this one wrong.



https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8482929/amp/Moment-police-stop-cyclist-accuse-antisocial-behaviour-riding-pavement.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15975961376574&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews% 2Farticle-8482929%2FMoment-police-stop-cyclist-accuse-antisocial-behaviour-riding-pavement.html

[Moulin Yarns]

I've seen a number of posters using the example of Breonna Taylor as Police going out of their way to shoot an innocent black person. What happened to her was absolutely tragic and yes, she was the innocent victim of a police shooting but using her as an example is stretching things. The Police had a warrant to search the place, they did not just decide to show up and shoot her because she was black.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get across is that the Police do not target black people because of the color of their skin. If someone can provide an example of a Police Officer walking up to a black person who is either not engaged in criminal activity or is not a bystander during an investigation into criminal activity, I will issue a heartfelt apology and say I got this one wrong.



https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/black-cyclist-stop-and-search-police-mani-arthur-euston-london-a9208756.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15975963711878&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnew s%2***%2Fhome-news%2Fblack-cyclist-stop-and-search-police-mani-arthur-euston-london-a9208756.html

[Moulin Yarns]

Once again your attempt at humour fails drastically, an asp is a collapsible baton as opposed to a rigid long baton.

And people are supposed to know that.

[Berwickhibby]

And people are supposed to know that.

20 seconds on google

[Moulin Yarns]

20 seconds on google

Would tell you that an asp is a venomous snake.

[AT8]

https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/black-cyclist-stop-and-search-police-mani-arthur-euston-london-a9208756.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15975963711878&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnew s%2***%2Fhome-news%2Fblack-cyclist-stop-and-search-police-mani-arthur-euston-london-a9208756.html

Granted, the second example you provided does suggest racial profiling, but it's not an example of the Police shooting him because he's black. Yes, the man was humiliated and that's not on and is something that needs to stop.

The first example, I'd obviously never heard of but from looking into it, it sounds like he was arrested because he was waving a knife at people. It seems we don't know how he died but this was not a case of the Police killing him for no other reason than the fact he was black. If he was arrested for threatening people with a knife, then he was committing a crime. This certainly sounds like a classic case of Police brutality, but not an example of the Police killing an innocent person for no other reason than being black.

[neil7908]

The warrant they had gave them the right to go in without announcing themselves. If it didn’t then I’d not be defending the police.

From the information I’ve read, they turned up with a no-knock warrant, and were shot at through the bedroom door, they returned fire.

Trying to make this about the officers being racist is bending the truth, in my opinion.

Ive no doubt there are police officers in America who are racist, and who abuse their power to get away with being racist. When a black person is killed by a police officer, whether they’re completely innocent or not, it doesn’t automatically become a racist incident. Sometimes it’s just a ****ty thing that’s happened. You say an “innocent black women died”, I say an innocent women died, and it’s not because she was black (or at least I’ve seen absolutely nothing to suggest it was).

I agree in individual cases it can be hard to distinguish racism. But the overall stats are clear on the increased chances of being shot and/or killed by the police if your black.

[MKHIBEE]

Do you really think that if the Police are under gunfire, they're going to pause and say, "maybe we shouldn't return fire because the shooter is white"?
I think the officers were well aware the occupants of the house were black, if the occupants were white it’s not difficult to imagine a different outcome. Would a no knock entry warrant have been issued, would the officers have made their presence known by some method before breaking down the door.? Lots of variables in this situation, the one constant is that blacks are repeatedly treated differently from whites by police.

[bigwheel]

I agree in individual cases it can be hard to distinguish racism. But the overall stats are clear on the increased chances of being shot and/or killed by the police if your black.

Six times. That’s the statistical ratio. A Black person is up to six times more likely to be killed by a police officer than a white person. It varies by state. But that’s the number . Your point is overwhelmingly correct .

[easty]

I think the officers were well aware the occupants of the house were black, if the occupants were white it’s not difficult to imagine a different outcome. Would a no knock entry warrant have been issued, would the officers have made their presence known by some method before breaking down the door.? Lots of variables in this situation, the one constant is that blacks are repeatedly treated differently from whites by police.

You’re clutching now.

[Scouse Hibee]

Once again your attempt at humour fails drastically, an asp is a collapsible baton as opposed to a rigid long baton.

I knew it but plenty won’t as ASP is the abbreviated name of the American manufacturer of collapsible batons.

[Berwickhibby]

I knew it but plenty won’t as ASP is the abbreviated name of the American manufacturer of collapsible batons.

Fair enough but it took seconds on google...my point still stands, I am grateful that the police in UK 🇬🇧 carry, technically non lethal appointments, than routine carrying of firearms

[Scouse Hibee]

Fair enough but it took seconds on google...my point still stands, I am grateful that the police in UK 🇬🇧 carry, technically non lethal appointments, than routine carrying of firearms

Agreed me too, I like the idea that a speciality highly trained officer will be the one with the lethal weapon.

[MKHIBEE]

You’re clutching now.

My point is that we cannot possibly know what would have happened if the house occupants were white. We can guess, think, surmise, imagine but we cannot know. Fairly simple really. It is also well evidenced that blacks are treated differently from whites when situations are the same. No straw clutching there.

[AT8]

I think the officers were well aware the occupants of the house were black, if the occupants were white it’s not difficult to imagine a different outcome. Would a no knock entry warrant have been issued, would the officers have made their presence known by some method before breaking down the door.? Lots of variables in this situation, the one constant is that blacks are repeatedly treated differently from whites by police.

The purpose of a no knock warrant is to allow the Police to enter without making their presence known when there is the chance that evidence could be destroyed if the suspects are made aware of an impending entry. If a no knock warrant was issued on a white drug dealer, you bet the Police would be knocking that door down without announcing themselves.

[bigwheel]

There’s a few (two or three ) posters on here desperate to continue the fight for “no police racism”. Trying to narrow it now to “no deliberate killing of Black people “ rather than hold their hands up in the overwhelming weight of inequality across the justice and policing systems ...

I have to admit I never quite understand why people fight that agenda in the face of the evidence ...

[easty]

There’s a few (two or three ) posters on here desperate to continue the fight for “no police racism”. Trying to narrow it now to “no deliberate killing of Black people “ rather than hold their hands up in the overwhelming weight of inequality across the justice and policing systems ...

I have to admit I never quite understand why people fight that agenda in the face of the evidence ...

I dunno if you’re including me in this or not, don’t care either way to be honest, but I’m only doubting the whole “racist police” element of the Breonna Taylor incident.

It’s not an agenda, it’s an opinion based on my interpretation of the incident as it’s been reported. If anything is an agenda it’s that folk want to attribute racism to every police incident on black people.

[hibsbollah]

There’s a few (two or three ) posters on here desperate to continue the fight for “no police racism”. Trying to narrow it now to “no deliberate killing of Black people “ rather than hold their hands up in the overwhelming weight of inequality across the justice and policing systems ...

I have to admit I never quite understand why people fight that agenda in the face of the evidence ...

It’s whitesplaining, we’ve talked about this before on here. The logical equivalent of saying land mines aren’t really a problem because you’ve never stood on one yourself.

[AT8]

What's being missed in this debate is the fact that the BLM movement was founded on the lie that Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown were gunned down for no other reason than the fact they were black. Those claims were proven false in a court of law. I'm against racism and I agree we need to do more to correct this, but what I will not do is sit back and have people claim that the Police go out of their way to kill black people.

As a result of the recent "protests", we are seeing Police forces defunded, demoralized and demonized and what's the result of that? An increase in crime and murder. Ironically, the population suffering the most by the increase in murder rates is the black community. Either Black Lives Matter or they don't, we can't only show outrage when a black person is killed by the Police. Statistics show that the greatest danger to young black men is other young black men. Perhaps if we showed more concern about that, we could make some real change.

[Moulin Yarns]

I knew it but plenty won’t as ASP is the abbreviated name of the American manufacturer of collapsible batons.

Ah, so it's the brand name of a weapon. Thanks for clearing that up. I searched for asp and got a venomous snake, if had searched for ASP I would have got... A venomous snake followed by some kind of computer thing before anything about weapons.

[bigwheel]

It’s whitesplaining, we’ve talked about this before on here. The logical equivalent of saying land mines aren’t really a problem because you’ve never stood on one yourself.

Yep. There’s a couple of other examples just recently ..

[bigwheel]

What's being missed in this debate is the fact that the BLM movement was founded on the lie that Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown were gunned down for no other reason than the fact they were black. Those claims were proven false in a court of law. I'm against racism and I agree we need to do more to correct this, but what I will not do is sit back and have people claim that the Police go out of their way to kill black people.

As a result of the recent "protests", we are seeing Police forces defunded, demoralized and demonized and what's the result of that? An increase in crime and murder. Ironically, the population suffering the most by the increase in murder rates is the black community. Either Black Lives Matter or they don't, we can't only show outrage when a black person is killed by the Police. Statistics show that the greatest danger to young black men is other young black men. Perhaps if we showed more concern about that, we could make some real change.

If you are going to try to keep your argument going at least have a foundation of truth in it..The initial creation of BLM movement was never about them being targeted singularly because they were black. It was because of the acquittal of Zimmerman (not a policeman ) for what many saw as the unlawful slaying of the 17 year old black kid..the court acquitted Zimmerman, he had previous for falsely challenging and accusing youths of crimes , it caused outrage in the community ..

Michael Brown was indeed killed by a cop. Shot 6 times . His body lay for hours in the street , his family not allowed to get to it . Already a time and place of racial tension , the eye witness testimony varied massively from the police version of events . The justice system concluded there was not enough definitive evidence to charge the policeman of murder. Because the community felt the police lied, it again stoked riots and lack of trust in the neighbourhood and across other places .

BLM was created to fight back and eradicate violence against black communities....it remains an “enough is enough” reaction.

Most BLM supporters abhor the violence and rioting that comes with the protests . They are a non violent civil disobedience collective..You know that I’m sure - just doesn’t fit your narrative.

They are far more sophisticated to suggest it is only the colour of ones skin that causes these issues ..(they know it’s a factor though , and creates risk for the black community disproportionately than others). only you and a few others seem to fabricate that view..I suspect it is because every other argument you have made has been proven weak ..

[AT8]

If you are going to try to keep your argument going at least have a foundation of truth in it..The initial creation of BLM movement was never about them being targeted singularly because they were black. It was because of the acquittal of Zimmerman (not a policeman ) for what many saw as the unlawful slaying of the 17 year old black kid..the court acquitted Zimmerman, he had previous for falsely challenging and accusing youths of crimes , it caused outrage in the community ..

Michael Brown was indeed killed by a cop. Shot 6 times . His body lay for hours in the street , his family not allowed to get to it . Already a time and place of racial tension , the eye witness testimony varied massively from the police version of events . The justice system concluded there was not enough definitive evidence to charge the policeman of murder. Because the community felt the police lied, it again stoked riots and lack of trust in the neighbourhood and across other places .

BLM was created to fight back and eradicate violence against black communities....it remains an “enough is enough” reaction.

Most BLM supporters abhor the violence and rioting that comes with the protests . They are a non violent civil disobedience collective..You know that I’m sure - just doesn’t fit your narrative.

They are far more sophisticated to suggest it is only the colour of ones skin that causes these issues ..(they know it’s a factor though , and creates risk for the black community disproportionately than others). only you and a few others seem to fabricate that view..I suspect it is because every other argument you have made has been proven weak ..

I'm sure the majority of BLM supporters are indeed non violent, but it doesn't really help the cause when the organizer of the Chicago chapter is on national TV telling us that the looting of Gucci and Nike stores is justified because they are a form of reparations and it's not a big deal because those stores have insurance anyway. I've lost count of the number of consecutive days of violence in Portland, OR but I do know that it is turning a lot of people off.

Does the attitude the Police have towards the black community need to change? Yes, but change has to come from both sides. I just don't know why it can't be acknowledged that a great deal of the issues the black community faces is brought on by their own actions.

[Rocky]

I'm sure the majority of BLM supporters are indeed non violent, but it doesn't really help the cause when the organizer of the Chicago chapter is on national TV telling us that the looting of Gucci and Nike stores is justified because they are a form of reparations and it's not a big deal because those stores have insurance anyway. I've lost count of the number of consecutive days of violence in Portland, OR but I do know that it is turning a lot of people off.

Does the attitude the Police have towards the black community need to change? Yes, but change has to come from both sides. I just don't know why it can't be acknowledged that a great deal of the issues the black community faces is brought on by their own actions.

If you're jumping from one point to another every time you're challenged then what you're doing is pushing an agenda, not participating in a discussion on the facts. Only you know your motives for doing so.

[AT8]

If you're jumping from one point to another every time you're challenged then what you're doing is pushing an agenda, not participating in a discussion on the facts. Only you know your motives for doing so.

OK, let me spell it out for you.

- I agree that racism needs to be eradicated, but I don't agree with the motives of BLM.
- I agree that some Police officers may have racist tendencies, but I refuse to agree that black people are being shot by Police simply because they are black.

It seems that 95% of the posters in this thread have made their minds up that ACAB whose sole purpose in life if to gun down black people and that simply is not true. Furthermore, if you refuse to agree that there are steps the black community could take to ease the tension between themselves and the Police then you've been blinded by virtue signaling.

[bigwheel]

OK, let me spell it out for you.

- I agree that racism needs to be eradicated, but I don't agree with the motives of BLM.
- I agree that some Police officers may have racist tendencies, but I refuse to agree that black people are being shot by Police simply because they are black.

It seems that 95% of the posters in this thread have made their minds up that ACAB whose sole purpose in life if to gun down black people and that simply is not true. Furthermore, if you refuse to agree that there are steps the black community could take to ease the tension between themselves and the Police then you've been blinded by virtue signaling.

The last time I witnessed someone being dismantled the way all your arguments have been , Latapy volleyed home the sixth ....

[hibsbollah]

The last time I witnessed someone being dismantled the way all your arguments have been , Latapy volleyed home the sixth ....

:faf:

[MKHIBEE]

OK, let me spell it out for you.

- I agree that racism needs to be eradicated, but I don't agree with the motives of BLM.
- I agree that some Police officers may have racist tendencies, but I refuse to agree that black people are being shot by Police simply because they are black.

It seems that 95% of the posters in this thread have made their minds up that ACAB whose sole purpose in life if to gun down black people and that simply is not true. Furthermore, if you refuse to agree that there are steps the black community could take to ease the tension between themselves and the Police then you've been blinded by virtue signaling.

Do you think that if all of the incidents in which black people were shot by police the casualty figures would be the same if the perpetrator was white? There is a reason the movement is called Black Lives Matter, many police officers obviously have yet to get the message, as well as many of the public

[EH6 Hibby]

What's being missed in this debate is the fact that the BLM movement was founded on the lie that Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown were gunned down for no other reason than the fact they were black. Those claims were proven false in a court of law. I'm against racism and I agree we need to do more to correct this, but what I will not do is sit back and have people claim that the Police go out of their way to kill black people.

As a result of the recent "protests", we are seeing Police forces defunded, demoralized and demonized and what's the result of that? An increase in crime and murder. Ironically, the population suffering the most by the increase in murder rates is the black community. Either Black Lives Matter or they don't, we can't only show outrage when a black person is killed by the Police. Statistics show that the greatest danger to young black men is other young black men. Perhaps if we showed more concern about that, we could make some real change.

What other reason was Trayvon Martin killed for?

[wpj]

The last time I witnessed someone being dismantled the way all your arguments have been , Latapy volleyed home the sixth ....

10 out of 10

[Keith_M]

I'd just like to point out that, although I've disagreed with some of HFC_NYC's political viewpoints (as can be seen in my earlier posts), I think some people are being a bit over the top in saying that everything he's posted is wrong.

Sometimes issues are bit more complex than we'd like to imagine them (I include myself in that) and, while discussing things we disagree with is fair enough, I think it's reasonable to have concerns about some of the proposed approaches to tackle racism, e.g. like de-funding the police.

[AT8]

The last time I witnessed someone being dismantled the way all your arguments have been , Latapy volleyed home the sixth ....

It's all a good laugh, eh? It must be nice to be in a position to mock the views of someone who is witnessing firsthand, the problems caused by an increase in crime and a reduction of law enforcement to tackle it.

[easty]

I'd just like to point out that, although I've disagreed with some of HFC_NYC's political viewpoints (as can be seen in my earlier posts), I think some people are being a bit over the top in saying that everything he's posted is wrong.

Sometimes issues are bit more complex than we'd like to imagine them (I include myself in that) and, while discussing things we disagree with is fair enough, I think it's reasonable to have concerns about some of the proposed approaches to tackle racism, e.g. like de-funding the police.

Yep...some folk acting like school bullies...make a joke and sit back while others laugh at him. Nice.

[hibsbollah]

Yep...some folk acting like school bullies...make a joke and sit back while others laugh at him. Nice.

Are you suggesting banning the laugh smiley? I used it because he’s made a good point about the boys total inability to defend the indefensible, and I thought bringing the 6-2 into it was funny. If you’re offended by that I respectfully suggest you dry your eyes.