"Bad Taste" humour

[matty_f]

This is another topic I have difficulty with - jokes that are in bad taste. What's your take on them?

I don't mind jokes about most things, however I've never been a fan of racist or sexist jokes (though, that's not to say I haven't laughed at them before). Some comedians clearly make their living from it. Frankie Boyle is a good example of someone that I struggle with. Sometimes I think he's really clever, and very cutting with his jokes, but then I saw him live and he was making fun of Lewis Hamilton's brother (who, I think, suffers from something like cerebral palsy). The joke was about sibling rivalry, but I thought the fact that he'd personalised it and made it about a specific person was too much, I didn't really laugh at the time and afterwards that was the part of his act that I remembered. See also jokes about Harvey Price or Madelaine McCann.

They are easy targets, and I understand that sometimes the laugh there is in the shock factor - the comedian says things that we would never (usually) say but if you strip it back they're jokes about a disabled blind kid and a young girl who disappeared.

That said, there's some stuff that Frankie Boyle does that is really funny. Ricky Gervais is another one who treads a fine line, though I think he's much more obvious about where the target of the joke is.

While I think I'm stretching it to class it as comedy, some of the stuff we have joked about on my podcast is borderline (if not outright) distasteful so I'm not prudish about these things, I just think there's a line that I wouldn't go past - and that line has got smaller as I've got older.

Where do you stand on these things?

[AugustaHibs]

Can’t remember what comedian said it, but apparently hillsborough is the only topic that can’t be touched in U.K. comedy

[EAZY-ME]

All races have jokes pointed towards other races and some of them can be very funny. Disability jokes and other bad taste jokes can also be very funny. However directing those jokes at a specific named person isn't. I like frankie boyle but i can't stand when he starts pointing jokes at katie prices son.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Can’t remember what comedian said it, but apparently hillsborough is the only topic that can’t be touched in U.K. comedy

I think it was Jimmy Carr.

I’m pretty open to anything comedy wise - in fact Frankie Bs progression to political commentator has been more annoying to me than the joke about Jade Goody that had me squirming in my seat.

[Ozyhibby]

Ricky gervais is good at it, Frankie Boyle not so much.

[matty_f]

I think it was Jimmy Carr.

I’m pretty open to anything comedy wise - in fact Frankie Bs progression to political commentator has been more annoying to me than the joke about Jade Goody that had me squirming in my seat.

The squirming in your seat is part of the pay off from the joke though, isn’t it? It’s that reaction that makes it funny - the shock, the discomfort, as well as the punchline. Is whether or not it’s justified to make a joke about Jade Goody (who i think had either died or wasn’t far from dying of cancer when he did that routine). Is that good comedy or just a cheap, offensive laugh?

I think we’re pretty similar with our tastes in comedy and our outlook on life, and you know as well as anyone that I’m not shy on saying something shocking if it’s going to be funny.

[Sir David Gray]

Personally I have no issue with people speaking their mind on sensitive topics and within reason I believe people should be able to say whatever they like. I don't think a lot of these issues go hand in hand with comedy though.

Again speaking for myself I don't find Frankie Boyle in the least bit funny and I wouldn't cross the road to attend one of his shows. I feel mocking someone who is mentally disabled for laughs is beneath contempt. What he said about Katie Price's son Harvey was disgraceful in my opinion.

I'm more into observational humour.

[matty_f]

Personally I have no issue with people speaking their mind on sensitive topics and within reason I believe people should be able to say whatever they like. I don't think a lot of these issues go hand in hand with comedy though.

Again speaking for myself I don't find Frankie Boyle in the least bit funny and I wouldn't cross the road to attend one of his shows. I feel mocking someone who is mentally disabled for laughs is beneath contempt. What he said about Katie Price's son Harvey was disgraceful in my opinion.

I'm more into observational humour.

I totally understand that point of view, speaking about topics is fine - it’s getting laughs from them that’s the boy I’m talking about on this thread.

It’s a really tricky one, because you also have the idea of gallows humour - using jokes to cope with difficult subjects. The extension of that is using humour to discuss serious topics more comfortably. A good example of that is the Tourette’s documentary “John’s Not Mad” i remember crying with laughter the first time i watched it and while it wasn’t meant to be funny, laughing about it and talking about it meant that Tourette’s became known and people’s understanding of the constrain grew.

[Vault Boy]

I'm a big proponent of artistic freedom and comedy falls under this remit.

Part of this freedom, which some people seem to want to ignore, is that the public are equally free to critically assess your work and adjudge it to be absolute ****.

I like humour which pushes boundaries and makes people uncomfortable, but despite this I find myself disagreeing more with the 'it's just a joke, free country' brigade than I do agreeing with them.

There's a difficult to describe, but very noticeable difference between the kinds of comedy that rely upon controversial or shocking topics. On one hand, there are jokes that very simply make minority figures the butt of the joke. These often centre around stereotypes, are steaped in the classic symbolism of homophobia, racism, sexism or xenophobia and do absolutely nothing to appeal to the wider context or conversations about these issues. The target of these jokes are women, LGBT people, rape victims, disabled people, black people, the list goes on - there's nothing nuanced or more interesting about them. These kind of jokes I hate and can understand why advocacy groups would find issue with them. I don't for a minute think they shouldn't be allowed to exist, however if individuals want to stand against them, or companies choose to deplatform those performers, I think that's fine too. In my perception, it just makes you a crap comedian and probably a pretty crap person.

On the other hand, there is the kind of comedy which is equally as controversial, but I think has a lot more value and depth. The topics are the same: rape, homophobia, racism, sexism, ableism etc, but the subject of the jokes are the issues themselves and those who perpetrate these bigoted views, rather than the minority groups who fall into these categories. It's difficult for me to describe, but I think you can always tell when a comedian is assuming the role of one of these close minded bigots, or when they're actually just being one because it's a cheap laugh from idiots. Jokes that can cause visceral reactions, physical clenching and genuine shock, but ultimately still manage to speak to the wider issues surrounding these really challenging topics deserve to be treated differently, I'd also say they're a sign of a far wittier, talented comedian.

An example I'd use is Tim Minchin. He's made so many jokes, about women, about homosexuality, about race, yet the subject of the joke always ends up being racists, homophobes, misogynists, or even himself.

I'd even give the same credit to Frankie Boyle, who's reputation has made him present on this thread already. When he makes a joke about dead Iraqi children, I can't say I've ever felt like he was doing anything other than spotlighting the absurdity of our relatively removed attitude toward humanitarian issues happening in foreign countries. Whether or not you agree with his politics (I'm not aligned with him on a lot of issues myself), it's fairly obvious that his problems are with the systemic societal issues that cause the tragedies that he chooses to approach with levity, rather than the victims themselves. His comedy isn't for everyone and he's been quite ****ty to tabloid celebrities before, but I'd still say his intention is to target deserving areas of discussion, even if he doesn't always get it right.

That's my two cents, anyway.

This is a discussion I've always found interesting and I am willing to listen to continue to develop my perspective.

Also think your OP is very well balanced and perfectly strikes up the conversation, Matty. :aok:

[Santa Cruz]

The squirming in your seat is part of the pay off from the joke though, isn’t it? It’s that reaction that makes it funny - the shock, the discomfort, as well as the punchline. Is whether or not it’s justified to make a joke about Jade Goody (who i think had either died or wasn’t far from dying of cancer when he did that routine). Is that good comedy or just a cheap, offensive laugh?

I think we’re pretty similar with our tastes in comedy and our outlook on life, and you know as well as anyone that I’m not shy on saying something shocking if it’s going to be funny.

The Jade Goody example alone, neither cheap or offensive. For me, plain cruel.

I think I have laughed once at him, it was his observation of Scottish tourist's abroad, failing too marvel at famous architecture etc but raving about how cheap a round cost them. I'm more a fan of observational comedy.

A lot of comedy is close to the bone and pushes boundaries, imo Boyle crosses the line and cruel is how I would sum him up.

[Jones28]

I used to find a lot of what frankie Boyle did to be very distasteful and it funny, but he’s done a few interviews where his stage/performance persona comes off and he talks about why he brings these subjects to the fore.

He did the joke about Katie price as a mockery of her use of her disabled son in media to keep her relevant - I think he said that her two elements of her publicity campaign are Harvey and her sexuality. So it’s a joke in poor taste, but it highlights the way that this woman contributes to society by using her disabled child to keep her relevant.

There was another joke that he did that he then talked about afterwards; i can’t remember the set up but the punchline was something about Israeli soldiers firing a 20 gun salute into some Palestinians. His point about the joke was that it was the only way to get the topic of Gaza onto his show New World Order, otherwise he wouldn’t have been able to discuss it, unless he made puns about it or something.

The point is that Boyle, whilst saying some things that are really distasteful and will offend people, isn’t someone who does it solely for the pay off of watching people get offended.

Go on YouTube and type in frankie Boyle interview and find his one with Richard osman talking about British tv and what I’ve said will hopefully make more sense.

My favourite line from Boyle is that Rebecca Adlington looks like she’s looking at herself on the back of a spoon.

[Hibee87]

A great question answered by the making it about someone specific.

Jimmy Carr done a joke with along the lines of how a school mate got caught ****ing in the showers, it totally ruined the trip to auschwitz. That to me is the close to the bone humour I enjoy.
Just attacking a named disabled kid or likewise doesn't really offend me, I just don't find it funny.

[Hiber-nation]

I find the that sort of humour by the likes of Boyle cruel, cheap and nasty and completely over-analysed although I'd probably have thought it was hilarious if I was young.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Can’t remember what comedian said it, but apparently hillsborough is the only topic that can’t be touched in U.K. comedy

The late Joan Rivers was heavily criticised for gags about 9/11 in her routine.

[Sir David Gray]

I used to find a lot of what frankie Boyle did to be very distasteful and it funny, but he’s done a few interviews where his stage/performance persona comes off and he talks about why he brings these subjects to the fore.

He did the joke about Katie price as a mockery of her use of her disabled son in media to keep her relevant - I think he said that her two elements of her publicity campaign are Harvey and her sexuality. So it’s a joke in poor taste, but it highlights the way that this woman contributes to society by using her disabled child to keep her relevant.

There was another joke that he did that he then talked about afterwards; i can’t remember the set up but the punchline was something about Israeli soldiers firing a 20 gun salute into some Palestinians. His point about the joke was that it was the only way to get the topic of Gaza onto his show New World Order, otherwise he wouldn’t have been able to discuss it, unless he made puns about it or something.

The point is that Boyle, whilst saying some things that are really distasteful and will offend people, isn’t someone who does it solely for the pay off of watching people get offended.

Go on YouTube and type in frankie Boyle interview and find his one with Richard osman talking about British tv and what I’ve said will hopefully make more sense.

My favourite line from Boyle is that Rebecca Adlington looks like she’s looking at herself on the back of a spoon.

This was his "joke" about Harvey;

"I have a theory that Jordan married a cage fighter cause she needed someone strong enough to stop Harvey from ****ing her."

Now I've no time for Katie Price but I'm not sure how that line can be excused as actually being all about how she uses Harvey for her own publicity.

He was an 8 year old boy at the time and severely disabled.

To me bad taste/dark humour should still be fundamentally funny, even if it does stretch some boundaries.

I get that what people find funny is subjective but for me making a fool of a disabled child who can't defend himself is just callous and cruel.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm a big proponent of artistic freedom and comedy falls under this remit.

Part of this freedom, which some people seem to want to ignore, is that the public are equally free to critically assess your work and adjudge it to be absolute ****.

I like humour which pushes boundaries and makes people uncomfortable, but despite this I find myself disagreeing more with the 'it's just a joke, free country' brigade than I do agreeing with them.

There's a difficult to describe, but very noticeable difference between the kinds of comedy that rely upon controversial or shocking topics. On one hand, there are jokes that very simply make minority figures the butt of the joke. These often centre around stereotypes, are steaped in the classic symbolism of homophobia, racism, sexism or xenophobia and do absolutely nothing to appeal to the wider context or conversations about these issues. The target of these jokes are women, LGBT people, rape victims, disabled people, black people, the list goes on - there's nothing nuanced or more interesting about them. These kind of jokes I hate and can understand why advocacy groups would find issue with them. I don't for a minute think they shouldn't be allowed to exist, however if individuals want to stand against them, or companies choose to deplatform those performers, I think that's fine too. In my perception, it just makes you a crap comedian and probably a pretty crap person.

On the other hand, there is the kind of comedy which is equally as controversial, but I think has a lot more value and depth. The topics are the same: rape, homophobia, racism, sexism, ableism etc, but the subject of the jokes are the issues themselves and those who perpetrate these bigoted views, rather than the minority groups who fall into these categories. It's difficult for me to describe, but I think you can always tell when a comedian is assuming the role of one of these close minded bigots, or when they're actually just being one because it's a cheap laugh from idiots. Jokes that can cause visceral reactions, physical clenching and genuine shock, but ultimately still manage to speak to the wider issues surrounding these really challenging topics deserve to be treated differently, I'd also say they're a sign of a far wittier, talented comedian.

An example I'd use is Tim Minchin. He's made so many jokes, about women, about homosexuality, about race, yet the subject of the joke always ends up being racists, homophobes, misogynists, or even himself.

I'd even give the same credit to Frankie Boyle, who's reputation has made him present on this thread already. When he makes a joke about dead Iraqi children, I can't say I've ever felt like he was doing anything other than spotlighting the absurdity of our relatively removed attitude toward humanitarian issues happening in foreign countries. Whether or not you agree with his politics (I'm not aligned with him on a lot of issues myself), it's fairly obvious that his problems are with the systemic societal issues that cause the tragedies that he chooses to approach with levity, rather than the victims themselves. His comedy isn't for everyone and he's been quite ****ty to tabloid celebrities before, but I'd still say his intention is to target deserving areas of discussion, even if he doesn't always get it right.

That's my two cents, anyway.

This is a discussion I've always found interesting and I am willing to listen to continue to develop my perspective.

Also think your OP is very well balanced and perfectly strikes up the conversation, Matty. :aok:

Excellent post. Well said :top marks


I always judge jokes by the point they are trying to make. Who are they laughing at, and for what purpose? Good comedy should be subversive and challenge lazy thinking.

[Mibbes Aye]

I half-remember reading about a London derby. It was Spurs against Chelsea or West Ham, IIRC.

Some of the away fans were singing to the Spurs fans “I’d rather be a paki than a Jew” to the tune of “You cannae shove your granny off a bus” by Billy Connolly.

It is reprehensible in that it manages to insult a nationality and a religion, probably a race and religion, in one go, while combining a tricky factor of equating one being lesser than the other. It insults being Pakistani but then goes further by suggesting that if Pakistanis are not ‘worthy’ Jews are worse.

Massively offensive but shows how powerful words can be in the hands of extremists.

[Vault Boy]

Excellent post. Well said :top marks


I always judge jokes by the point they are trying to make. Who are they laughing at, and for what purpose? Good comedy should be subversive and challenge lazy thinking.

It's a good point about the audience a comedian is attracting being a barometer for what their core messages are saying. :agree:

RE your last point, I can't remember who I heard this from originally, but it's quite universally applicable. It's the idea that 'people get more offended by somebody joking about a certain topic, than they do about the existence of that topic in the real world.' Of course this isn't true for everyone and there are definitely sincere and valid reasons a joke might emotionally hurt someone, however I think it's a strong retort and makes a good point about where our priorities often lie.

[Mon Dieu4]

When it comes to jokes and comedy then nothing is off limits for me, some work some don't, granted I have a dark and twisted sense of humour at times but I have a good moral compass and don't feel bad for laughing at things others would probably be offended by

I have laughed at loads of jokes before that are in stark contrast to my personal views and outlook on life

[Mibbes Aye]

I half-remember reading about a London derby. It was Spurs against Chelsea or West Ham, IIRC.

Some of the away fans were singing to the Spurs fans “I’d rather be a paki than a Jew” to the tune of “You cannae shove your granny off a bus” by Billy Connolly.

It is reprehensible in that it manages to insult a nationality and a religion, probably a race and religion, in one go, while combining a tricky factor of equating one being lesser than the other. It insults being Pakistani but then goes further by suggesting that if Pakistanis are not ‘worthy’ Jews are worse.

Massively offensive but shows how powerful words can be in the hands of extremists.

Meant to add it takes ‘bad taste’ to a different level but, don’t shoot me down, there is a sick cleverness to it in how it combines racism and anti-semitism in fifty-two sylablles of vitriol and bile.

[Scouse Hibee]

When it comes to jokes and comedy then nothing is off limits for me, some work some don't, granted I have a dark and twisted sense of humour at times but I have a good moral compass and don't feel bad for laughing at things others would probably be offended by

I have laughed at loads of jokes before that are in stark contrast to my personal views and outlook on life

I think you have pretty much just described me.

[wpj]

Pete and Dud, verey funny and totally off the spectrum still makes me laugh Derivk n Clive totally inappropriate

[Jones28]

This was his "joke" about Harvey;

"I have a theory that Jordan married a cage fighter cause she needed someone strong enough to stop Harvey from ****ing her."

Now I've no time for Katie Price but I'm not sure how that line can be excused as actually being all about how she uses Harvey for her own publicity.

He was an 8 year old boy at the time and severely disabled.

To me bad taste/dark humour should still be fundamentally funny, even if it does stretch some boundaries.

I get that what people find funny is subjective but for me making a fool of a disabled child who can't defend himself is just callous and cruel.

I know I defended FB for using that joke but I found it too far. I think that’s the problem when humour is left up to people who want to take it as far as they can to see if it’s funny.

Like I said though, he does explain the joke well in the interview I mentioned in my op.

[matty_f]

Excellent post. Well said :top marks


I always judge jokes by the point they are trying to make. Who are they laughing at, and for what purpose? Good comedy should be subversive and challenge lazy thinking.

100% agree - I suppose my concerns come in with jokes like the Harvey Price one that Sir David Gray and others have mentioned. When you break that down the joke isn't about Katie Price's celebrity or use of her son, there isn't a 'clever' angle on it. If Boyle had really wanted to make that point there were a million other ways he could have done it.

Same with the sibling rivalry between Lewis Hamilton and his disabled brother - what's the clever or gritty angle there? Does Lewis Hamilton's success makes his disabled brother fair game for attack?

I like Frankie Boyle, by the way - I didn't intend this thread to be about him, specifically. He's a good example of the dilemma I have with comedy though, for all the cutting jokes he makes where the target is clear, the few that get through that just seem gratuitously shocking/offensive are the ones that I'm less comfortable with. For me, there's not a huge leap from those ones to the Bernard Manning/Chubby Brown school of comedy, only one comedian pretends to be "ironic" and the others are happy being a c***.

There is the element of "the joke's on us" as well - "you laughed at that but look at what you're laughing at" idea.

The point about people being more offended about the joke than the topic is a good one as well - Gervais has covered that well in his stand up routine.

Brass Eye is a great example of getting it right - covering really controversial topics but doing it in a very funny way.

[Hibrandenburg]

I sometimes disgust myself at the jokes that make me laugh. That pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.

[Peevemor]

I sometimes disgust myself at the jokes that make me laugh. That pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.I'm the same. There are even jokes that I would never repeat for moral reasons that have made me do that screwed up face laugh thing.

[BroxburnHibee]

Perfect example of Frankie Boyle getting it just right :greengrin

https://youtu.be/xmmomV-ax-s

[matty_f]

I sometimes disgust myself at the jokes that make me laugh. That pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.

That's a good way to put it :agree:

[matty_f]

Perfect example of Frankie Boyle getting it just right :greengrin

https://youtu.be/xmmomV-ax-s

:agree:

[Pretty Boy]

The beauty of living in a free society is that you can joke about whatever you want. The flip side of that is that others can criticise you for it and different outlets have the freedom not to give you a platform. When it comes to comedy I'm in the 'anything goes' camp. Not because I find every subject amusing but because as soon as you start dictating what is and isn't acceptable you create a culture of double standards and stoke grievances.

I agree with a couple of others above that there are things I laugh at that I would never dream of repeating myself. Comedy is by it's very nature provocative and that uncomfortable 'that's so wrong' is one of the strongest reactions you can get.

[Vault Boy]

Perfect example of Frankie Boyle getting it just right :greengrin

https://youtu.be/xmmomV-ax-s

Frankie completely made that show. :greengrin

[matty_f]

Frankie completely made that show. :greengrin

:agree: always enjoy Milton Jones on it as well.

[HappyAsHellas]

I remember going to see Frankie Boyle many years ago and was shocked at some of his statements but bursting out with laughter at the same time. If you look into the actual reason for his jokes then there is invariably some point he is actually making, although it may take some digging to get there. If you laugh, you found it funny, it doesn't necessarily mean you agree with it.
A society where we censor what people can discuss or joke about is in no ones interest IMO.

[WeeRussell]

Ricky gervais is good at it, Frankie Boyle not so much.

I agree completely. I think part of it is down to whether people think the guy is funny because he has actually said something witty, or delivered it in a particularly amusing way... as opposed to just daring to say something very brutal or controversial.

I remember looking forward to seeing Frankie Boyle's first stand-up dvd (having thought he was brilliant on Mock the Week) and being totally disappointed. He falls into the "'funny' for being controversial" category for me and seemed to spend half his time trying to shock people as badly as possible, and the rest of it shouting at someone in the audience calling them a "daft c***". It seems to work for plenty of people's tastes though.

Ricky Gervais on the other hand I think incorporates the material into some hilarious story telling and unique delivery.... and is actually good at explaining the very discussion on this thread and I remember enjoying his explanation during a live show and feeling more comfortable about laughing at some of his more... emm harsh material.

Obviously Frankie is only telling jokes too (and having seen him talking about politics and other more serious matters, I think he comes across as a decent enough guy).

However I do think that part of it is simply that Frankie Boyle's style is more suited to panel shows than stand-up. That and he's not nearly as good a comedian as Ricky Gervais :greengrin

[-Jonesy-]

I agree completely. I think part of it is down to whether people think the guy is funny because he has actually said something witty, or delivered it in a particularly amusing way... as opposed to just daring to say something very brutal or controversial.

I remember looking forward to seeing Frankie Boyle's first stand-up dvd (having thought he was brilliant on Mock the Week) and being totally disappointed. He falls into the "'funny' for being controversial" category for me and seemed to spend half his time trying to shock people as badly as possible, and the rest of it shouting at someone in the audience calling them a "daft c***". It seems to work for plenty of people's tastes though.

Ricky Gervais on the other hand I think incorporates the material into some hilarious story telling and unique delivery.... and is actually good at explaining the very discussion on this thread and I remember enjoying his explanation during a live show and feeling more comfortable about laughing at some of his more... emm harsh material.

Obviously Frankie is only telling jokes too (and having seen him talking about politics and other more serious matters, I think he comes across as a decent enough guy).

However I do think that part of it is simply that Frankie Boyle's style is more suited to panel shows than stand-up. That and he's not nearly as good a comedian as Ricky Gervais :greengrin

Frankie has some pretty cutting things to say about Gervais’ standup in his latest set on BBC

[Danderhall Hibs]

Frankie has some pretty cutting things to say about Gervais’ standup in his latest set on BBC

That was mainly around the trans gender / identifying as stuff that Gervais bangs on about although he did effectively say he’s a ***** stand up.

[matty_f]

That was mainly around the trans gender / identifying as stuff that Gervais bangs on about although he did effectively say he’s a ***** stand up.

Sure Gervais got something like $70m from Netflix and had a record selling stand up tour with Humanity, I'm not convinced he'll be too bothered about Frankie Boyle, to be honest. :greengrin

[Danderhall Hibs]

Sure Gervais got something like $70m from Netflix and had a record selling stand up tour with Humanity, I'm not convinced he'll be too bothered about Frankie Boyle, to be honest. :greengrin

I think he’s a sensitive wee soul and will care.

I think Frankie right like - Gervais doesn’t look comfortable doing stand up.

[matty_f]

I think he’s a sensitive wee soul and will care.

I think Frankie right like - Gervais doesn’t look comfortable doing stand up.

He's not a natural at it, that's for sure.

[1 8 7 5]

all for bad taste. Bring it on (all for good taste tae!)

A joke is either funny to you or it is not, being offended by a joke is a bit of a nonsense imho

[Logie Green]

I saw Frank Skinner at the Festival last year. He was talking about disability (not insensitively) and said to a man in the front row “you’re in a wheelchair tonight, sir” to which the man replied “I’m in a wheelchair every night”. It got the biggest laugh of the night.

At first FS didn’t know what to say but recovered quickly by saying that it would probably be the one joke the audience would remember the next day.

Both parties handled a difficult subject well which shows it can be done. At the end people were shaking hands with the man in the wheelchair for his retort.

[Sir David Gray]

I saw Frank Skinner at the Festival last year. He was talking about disability (not insensitively) and said to a man in the front row “you’re in a wheelchair tonight, sir” to which the man replied “I’m in a wheelchair every night”. It got the biggest laugh of the night.

At first FS didn’t know what to say but recovered quickly by saying that it would probably be the one joke the audience would remember the next day.

Both parties handled a difficult subject well which shows it can be done. At the end people were shaking hands with the man in the wheelchair for his retort.

It's the kind of response I would give someone if they had said that to me and then watch as they pray for the ground to swallow them up. :greengrin

I think that's different in that there was no offence intended from Frank Skinner although I'm not sure where was leading to if the guy had simply replied "yes I am".

[Bangkok Hibby]

I used to find a lot of what frankie Boyle did to be very distasteful and it funny, but he’s done a few interviews where his stage/performance persona comes off and he talks about why he brings these subjects to the fore.

He did the joke about Katie price as a mockery of her use of her disabled son in media to keep her relevant - I think he said that her two elements of her publicity campaign are Harvey and her sexuality. So it’s a joke in poor taste, but it highlights the way that this woman contributes to society by using her disabled child to keep her relevant.

There was another joke that he did that he then talked about afterwards; i can’t remember the set up but the punchline was something about Israeli soldiers firing a 20 gun salute into some Palestinians. His point about the joke was that it was the only way to get the topic of Gaza onto his show New World Order, otherwise he wouldn’t have been able to discuss it, unless he made puns about it or something.

The point is that Boyle, whilst saying some things that are really distasteful and will offend people, isn’t someone who does it solely for the pay off of watching people get offended.

Go on YouTube and type in frankie Boyle interview and find his one with Richard osman talking about British tv and what I’ve said will hopefully make more sense.

My favourite line from Boyle is that Rebecca Adlington looks like she’s looking at herself on the back of a spoon.

On my phone and can't figure out how to highlight text. This Rebecca Adlington so called joke is a good example of the type of comedy I've become less and less tolerant to as I've got older. IMO to mock people for how they look is childish in the extreme and to laugh at it even more so.

[matty_f]

On my phone and can't figure out how to highlight text. This Rebecca Adlington so called joke is a good example of the type of comedy I've become less and less tolerant to as I've got older. IMO to mock people for how they look is childish in the extreme and to laugh at it even more so.

This is a good example - Rebecca Adlington is a former swimmer, I'm not sure if there's more to her than that which would set her out as a target for that kind of joke, but assuming there's not then it seems like the kind of cheap joke that is just using the fact that it's nasty as a means to get a laugh. There's nothing clever about it.

That said, we still joke to this day about Stevie Fulton, and I'm 100% certain we've made jokes about folk and their appearance on my podcast so as well as being uncomfortable with laughing at a joke like that, I'm also a massive hypocrite. :greengrin

[danhibees1875]

I'm not really a fan of bad taste comedy, that's probably a reflection on me being boring more than anything else though.

Comedy by its nature tends to just be people saying things in an attempt to be funny without necessarily having any genuine belief/opinion on what they're saying so generally I don't think there's any need to take offence to anything said when in the context of a comedy show.

[Wembley67]

It's comedy. You either like it our you don't. If you don't like it you probably wouldn't have paid to be there. Personally I'll quite happily sit through anything and when the show is over that's it, I walk away. Bit like the crap that gets posted here a lot....it's just words 😁

[Hibbyradge]

Billy Connolly made a "joke" about the first guy who eventually was filmed being beheaded by the Taliban or ISIS, can't remember which.

"Don't you just wish they'd get on with it" he said.

I was appalled.

I was also pilloried on here for not thinking it was acceptable. However, I still don't understand what was funny about that.

[Jones28]

On my phone and can't figure out how to highlight text. This Rebecca Adlington so called joke is a good example of the type of comedy I've become less and less tolerant to as I've got older. IMO to mock people for how they look is childish in the extreme and to laugh at it even more so.

The interview I mention in the original post goes into detail about the joke, worth a watch.

[Geo_1875]

I'm not really a fan of bad taste comedy, that's probably a reflection on me being boring more than anything else though.

Comedy by its nature tends to just be people saying things in an attempt to be funny without necessarily having any genuine belief/opinion on what they're saying so generally I don't think there's any need to take offence to anything said when in the context of a comedy show.

Bad taste comedians do it for the reaction, whether that's a laugh or a sharp intake of breath doesn't matter to them. Jimmy Carr is an example. He'll make a "joke" about an offensive subject and would be disappointed if everybody laughed rather than a few people gasping in disbelief.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

It's comedy. You either like it our you don't. If you don't like it you probably wouldn't have paid to be there. Personally I'll quite happily sit through anything and when the show is over that's it, I walk away. Bit like the crap that gets posted here a lot....it's just words 😁

That's how I see it too.

[Keith_M]

I don't think I've ever laughed at anything Frankie Boyle has said and find him totally over-rated.

What he said about Katie Price's son (IMO, obviously) was inexcusable.

[Moulin Yarns]

Childish jokes about beavers!!!

[lord bunberry]

This is a good example - Rebecca Adlington is a former swimmer, I'm not sure if there's more to her than that which would set her out as a target for that kind of joke, but assuming there's not then it seems like the kind of cheap joke that is just using the fact that it's nasty as a means to get a laugh. There's nothing clever about it.

That said, we still joke to this day about Stevie Fulton, and I'm 100% certain we've made jokes about folk and their appearance on my podcast so as well as being uncomfortable with laughing at a joke like that, I'm also a massive hypocrite. :greengrin
I’m not going to lie, when I first heard that joke I found it really funny. Obviously the fallout from it wasn’t though.

[Pretty Boy]

I’m not going to lie, when I first heard that joke I found it really funny. Obviously the fallout from it wasn’t though.

I think jokes about someone's looks can be funny. It's quite important to be aware of how self deprecating the target is though.

I used to, and still do, get a few jokes aimed at me about my ears. It's water off a ducks back to me though so people tend to get bored and look for bites elsewhere. If someone is quite self conscious about their looks then it strays into the cruel. Fwiw I remember finding that funny at the time as well, if it was aimed at me I would have laughed too, but it obviously caused a fair amount of upset for the target.

[lord bunberry]

I think jokes about someone's looks can be funny. It's quite important to be aware of how self deprecating the target is though.

I used to, and still do, get a few jokes aimed at me about my ears. It's water off a ducks back to me though so people tend to get bored and look for bites elsewhere. If someone is quite self conscious about their looks then it strays into the cruel. Fwiw I remember finding that funny at the time as well, if it was aimed at me I would have laughed too, but it obviously caused a fair amount of upset for the target.
Yeah I agree with all of that.

[Scouse Hibee]

Have heard some crackers from after dinner speakers and various events I have attended over the years. There isn’t much that I take a dislike to in the context that it is being used to make people laugh and it normally does. What I do find funny is when the odd person remarks at a particular joke “he can’t say that” yet only minutes earlier they had split their sides at an equally controversial subject.

[matty_f]

Have heard some crackers from after dinner speakers and various events I have attended over the years. There isn’t much that I take a dislike to in the context that it is being used to make people laugh and it normally does. What I do find funny is when the odd person remarks at a particular joke “he can’t say that” yet only minutes earlier they had split their sides at an equally controversial subject.

Think everyone just has their line, don’t they - usually it’ll be personal experience or upbringing etc that’ll form their boundaries.

There’sa post earlier where someone word Jimmy Carr as saying Hillsborough was the only topic you couldn’t joke about in Britain, but why not?

What’s the difference between laughing at that and having a laugh about Chernobyl, for example, or Madelaine McCann etc?

[heretoday]

Have heard some crackers from after dinner speakers and various events I have attended over the years. There isn’t much that I take a dislike to in the context that it is being used to make people laugh and it normally does. What I do find funny is when the odd person remarks at a particular joke “he can’t say that” yet only minutes earlier they had split their sides at an equally controversial subject.

You've nailed it.

[Sir David Gray]

Think everyone just has their line, don’t they - usually it’ll be personal experience or upbringing etc that’ll form their boundaries.

There’sa post earlier where someone word Jimmy Carr as saying Hillsborough was the only topic you couldn’t joke about in Britain, but why not?

What’s the difference between laughing at that and having a laugh about Chernobyl, for example, or Madelaine McCann etc?

It's also got a lot to do with whether the subject of the joke is historical or not. For example the Titanic is joked about a lot these days, probably not so much 100 years ago.

How much of a connection people have to the butt of a joke comes into it too. I'm sure there's world events that people would joke about on here but wouldn't touch if they had happened in Edinburgh.

[Scouse Hibee]

It's also got a lot to do with whether the subject of the joke is historical or not. For example the Titanic is joked about a lot these days, probably not so much 100 years ago.

How much of a connection people have to the butt of a joke comes into it too. I'm sure there's world events that people would joke about on here but wouldn't touch if they had happened in Edinburgh.

Yes that’s a good point as one I hadn’t really thought about which makes my previous post about people laughing at one and not the other wrong. I would not take anyone making a joke about Hillsborough very well at all. Due to my personal involvement it would be a subject that not only would I not laugh at, I would most certainly raise it with the person telling the joke.

[wpj]

My mate and I in the 90s still in a time and place, yea it was Derick and Clive, every time we talked about and to this day we always refer to cancer victims "taking up darts" despite losing people to the disease. For us its a coping mechanism. If yo don't get the reference check out Pete & Dub. But never ever did we not mourn the loss of a dear friend, we just took up darts.

[Sir David Gray]

Yes that’s a good point as one I hadn’t really thought about which makes my previous post about people laughing at one and not the other wrong. I would not take anyone making a joke about Hillsborough very well at all. Due to my personal involvement it would be a subject that not only would I not laugh at, I would most certainly raise it with the person telling the joke.

Another very obvious example is the Covid-19 situation. I think one look back at a lot of social media timelines around 6 or 7 months ago will involve people in this country poking fun at something which, at that time, was confined to the hospital wards of Wuhan, thousands of miles away. Not many people in the UK had been affected by it and so it was easy to make fun of its name and joke about Corona beer etc. I'm sure people remember the Dele Alli incident.

Fast forward to today after thousands of people have died in this country and many more have suffered long lasting health effects and are facing redundancy and financial hardship as a result of the pandemic, the jokes that were funny in January suddenly don't seem so humorous now.

[overdrive]

Yes that’s a good point as one I hadn’t really thought about which makes my previous post about people laughing at one and not the other wrong. I would not take anyone making a joke about Hillsborough very well at all. Due to my personal involvement it would be a subject that not only would I not laugh at, I would most certainly raise it with the person telling the joke.

Personal involvement definitely comes into it. I love the game Cards Against Humanity where the aim of the game is to come up with something funny/controversial. There’s a few card combinations that throw up quite apt gags about Madeleine McCann. They usually get a good laugh.

A few years ago we were playing it with a few friends, one of whom was hosting with her relatively new boyfriend. I can’t remember precisely the cards I drew but I drew the Madeleine McCann card and other(s) that kind of implied it was one of the parents. I thought “great, this will probably get me the points this round”. It did but what I didn’t realise was the new boyfriend’s older brother is mates with Gerry McCann. He went absolutely mental at me about it.

One of the weirdest Fringe shows I’ve been to was an Australian comedian (can’t remember who). It consisted of him telling racist joke after racist joke. At various points people in the audience, mostly those in ethnic minorities would stand up and shout that he was a racist ‘b’ etc. Some walked out. Then at the end it turned out all the hecklers and folk that walked out were planted in the audience and he gave a speech about how he wasn’t racist but that anyone in the audience who laughed was the racist. Bizarre.

[Killiehibbie]

Personal involvement definitely comes into it. I love the game Cards Against Humanity where the aim of the game is to come up with something funny/controversial. There’s a few card combinations that throw up quite apt gags about Madeleine McCann. They usually get a good laugh.

A few years ago we were playing it with a few friends, one of whom was hosting with her relatively new boyfriend. I can’t remember precisely the cards I drew but I drew the Madeleine McCann card and other(s) that kind of implied it was one of the parents. I thought “great, this will probably get me the points this round”. It did but what I didn’t realise was the new boyfriend’s older brother is mates with Gerry McCann. He went absolutely mental at me about it.

One of the weirdest Fringe shows I’ve been to was an Australian comedian (can’t remember who). It consisted of him telling racist joke after racist joke. At various points people in the audience, mostly those in ethnic minorities would stand up and shout that he was a racist ‘b’ etc. Some walked out. Then at the end it turned out all the hecklers and folk that walked out were planted in the audience and he gave a speech about how he wasn’t racist but that anyone in the audience who laughed was the racist. Bizarre.

That would've been funny.

[Logie Green]

This is a good example - Rebecca Adlington is a former swimmer, I'm not sure if there's more to her than that which would set her out as a target for that kind of joke, but assuming there's not then it seems like the kind of cheap joke that is just using the fact that it's nasty as a means to get a laugh. There's nothing clever about it.

That said, we still joke to this day about Stevie Fulton, and I'm 100% certain we've made jokes about folk and their appearance on my podcast so as well as being uncomfortable with laughing at a joke like that, I'm also a massive hypocrite. :greengrin

I think Frankie Boyle (?) also said that the reason Rebecca Adlington was such a good swimmer is because she has a dolphin-shaped face. Not to everyone’s taste but I have to admit to having a wee chuckle. Apologies if that makes me a bad person.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I’m late to the party with this but I’ve been catching up on Jim Jefferies stuff - close to the bone on many topics but very funny.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I’m late to the party with this but I’ve been catching up on Jim Jefferies stuff - close to the bone on many topics but very funny.

He certainly doesn't miss Bill Cosby.

[Danderhall Hibs]

He certainly doesn't miss Bill Cosby.

That was funny - on topic of this thread he obviously felt he had to explain he was saying stuff (about Cosby) cos he thought it was funny and not cos he believed it due to some bad reviews.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Whenever I see Frankie Boyle on the telly, I am waiting for him to say something unexpected. If the audience stopped taking offence, either genuine or faux, that would be the end of his act perhaps.

[MrRobot]

Absolutely love dark humour to be honest :greengrin

[Scouse Hibee]

Reminds me of a time I at the scene of a suicide in Edinburgh, the cop asked me if I knew who she was, I answered ”some high flyer from one of the financial institutions”. Given that she had just jumped to her death, he asked me if that I was my attempt at dark humour. It wasn’t and my response was totally innocent however it may have seemed at the time.

[wpj]

Having worked in the NHS for over 20 years often dark humour helped a few stressful moments. That said there were moments I thought I may have gone too far until folk burst out laughing. When I worked in A&E the paramedics and police coped using very dark humour, they had to given what they have dealt with.

[Mibbes Aye]

Having worked in the NHS for over 20 years often dark humour helped a few stressful moments. That said there were moments I thought I may have gone too far until folk burst out laughing. When I worked in A&E the paramedics and police coped using very dark humour, they had to given what they have dealt with.

I would agree with that, having worked in public services and with other public services that deal with exceptional and challenging circumstances.

’Gallows’ humour was part and parcel. But in fairness, if a line was crossed in terms of professionalism then it was quickly challenged. I think it it is hard to appreciate how difficult it can be to work in sectors that respond to people in need, whether police, health, fire, social work, housing, or other areas.

By the same token it is hard to appreciate how difficult it can be for people who feel they are stretched beyond their ability to cope, or they are witnessing loved ones stretched beyond their ability to cope.

[Hibrandenburg]

Having worked in the NHS for over 20 years often dark humour helped a few stressful moments. That said there were moments I thought I may have gone too far until folk burst out laughing. When I worked in A&E the paramedics and police coped using very dark humour, they had to given what they have dealt with.

I concur. Most of my working life has been spent in the army and working for the rescue services in Germany. I had real problems adjusting to working in a semi normal job. My humour is still black as night but I've almost learned where the line is, almost.

[LongJohnBanger]

Personal involvement definitely comes into it. I love the game Cards Against Humanity where the aim of the game is to come up with something funny/controversial. There’s a few card combinations that throw up quite apt gags about Madeleine McCann. They usually get a good laugh.

A few years ago we were playing it with a few friends, one of whom was hosting with her relatively new boyfriend. I can’t remember precisely the cards I drew but I drew the Madeleine McCann card and other(s) that kind of implied it was one of the parents. I thought “great, this will probably get me the points this round”. It did but what I didn’t realise was the new boyfriend’s older brother is mates with Gerry McCann. He went absolutely mental at me about it.

One of the weirdest Fringe shows I’ve been to was an Australian comedian (can’t remember who). It consisted of him telling racist joke after racist joke. At various points people in the audience, mostly those in ethnic minorities would stand up and shout that he was a racist ‘b’ etc. Some walked out. Then at the end it turned out all the hecklers and folk that walked out were planted in the audience and he gave a speech about how he wasn’t racist but that anyone in the audience who laughed was the racist. Bizarre.

Seems a bit of an OTT reaction. Where was he when Madeleine McCann went missing?