China denies presence of 'concentration camps'

[G B Young]

Disturbing footage:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53463403

[Keith_M]

Forced sterilization is something that was done previously to the Roma in Europe and the Chinese are also performing mass brainwashing of the Muslims in Uighur.

This is a country that large swathes of the rest of the world now rely on for manufacturing because money comes before morals.

Let's be honest, The Chinese totalitarian* state is, put simply, totally evil



* Forget Socialist or Communist.

[hibsbollah]

I‘ve been vocal on China before, but I’m not sure what I’m looking at here? It looks like a prison where blindfold detainees are being marched about. The Chinese will surely claim that it’s the same as detainees in Guantanamo.

No doubt that human rights abuses are being committed in this ‘War Against Terror’, but there’s not much new in that footage.

[brianmc]

Could just as likely be prisoners being sent to organ harvesting facilities.....

Brutal regime.

[Scorrie]

And don’t get me started on the Chinese treatment of Tibet. A clear breach of UN regulations and nobody bothers a jot, as well as the moral position.

[makaveli1875]

Are the folk they're locking up actually terrorists or is it just a good excuse for China to do a bit of ethnic cleansing

[Keith_M]

Are the folk they're locking up actually terrorists or is it just a good excuse for China to do a bit of ethnic cleansing


"One recent news report put the number of Uyghurs confined at 120,000 in "overcrowded and squalid" conditions in just one prefecture in southern Xinjiang."

"Detainees are required to praise the ruling Communist Party, sing revolutionary songs, learn to speak Mandarin, study the thought of Chinese leader Xi Jinping, and confess perceived transgressions such as praying at a mosque or traveling abroad, according to activists."

CNN article (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/02/asia/china-xinjiang-detention-camps-intl/index.html)

[G B Young]

Sounds like we'll be following Australia's lead and suspending our extradition treaty with Hong Kong today:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53463405

[lord bunberry]

The sooner the world stops all trade with China the better. I doubt it’s going to happen, but it should.

[neil7908]

The sooner the world stops all trade with China the better. I doubt it’s going to happen, but it should.

Whilst I agree in principle, this would cause huge damage to our economy. Its sad but if we do that we'd be talking more job losses and pushing the price of goods up.

And then we'd need to stop doing business with Russia, Saudi Arabia and half the countries in the world given how rife human rights abused sadly are.

[lord bunberry]

Whilst I agree in principle, this would cause huge damage to our economy. Its sad but if we do that we'd be talking more job losses and pushing the price of goods up.

And then we'd need to stop doing business with Russia, Saudi Arabia and half the countries in the world given how rife human rights abused sadly are.
It should be a slow transition away from buying Chinese goods, I really worry about what China’s ultimate goal is and how they see themselves in the future.

[Keith_M]

It should be a slow transition away from buying Chinese goods, I really worry about what China’s ultimate goal is and how they see themselves in the future.


Maybe other countries could re-introduce the concept of manufacturing and stop having to rely on China.

I realise that's anathema to the mega-rich (i.e. the people that fund the ruling political parties), as they'd make less money, so it's probably very unlikely to actually happen.

[Pete]

While there appears to be lots of evidence regarding China's behaviour, I'm not sure what to take at face value any more. Hong Kong, Covid 19, Hwawei, the Rohingya situation...it all seems to be coming at once and could be considered part of an orchestrated , anti-Chinese narrative propagated by the West and its allies.
If China is the new world economic superpower, you could see why such a campaign might exist. Who would benefit from this second cold war?

While there probably are human rights abuses going on in China, I'm unsure of the objectivity of all this evidence of China and Russia doing dastardly things. There has to be more to this than meets the eye.

[Ozyhibby]

While there appears to be lots of evidence regarding China's behaviour, I'm not sure what to take at face value any more. Hong Kong, Covid 19, Hwawei, the Rohingya situation...it all seems to be coming at once and could be considered part of an orchestrated , anti-Chinese narrative propagated by the West and its allies.
If China is the new world economic superpower, you could see why such a campaign might exist. Who would benefit from this second cold war?

While there probably are human rights abuses going on in China, I'm unsure of the objectivity of all this evidence of China and Russia doing dastardly things. There has to be more to this than meets the eye.

Or it’s all true and they are horrible regimes?


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[lord bunberry]

Maybe other countries could re-introduce the concept of manufacturing and stop having to rely on China.

I realise that's anathema to the mega-rich (i.e. the people that fund the ruling political parties), as they'd make less money, so it's probably very unlikely to actually happen.
I doubt it will happen either, if it’s not China it will be another country that can manufacture things at a similarly low cost.

[lord bunberry]

While there appears to be lots of evidence regarding China's behaviour, I'm not sure what to take at face value any more. Hong Kong, Covid 19, Hwawei, the Rohingya situation...it all seems to be coming at once and could be considered part of an orchestrated , anti-Chinese narrative propagated by the West and its allies.
If China is the new world economic superpower, you could see why such a campaign might exist. Who would benefit from this second cold war?

While there probably are human rights abuses going on in China, I'm unsure of the objectivity of all this evidence of China and Russia doing dastardly things. There has to be more to this than meets the eye.
I think it’s healthy to treat these stories with scepticism, but in China’s case there’s a lot of first hand evidence to back up what they’re doing. They also appear to be the worst for cyber terrorism.

[Bristolhibby]

While there appears to be lots of evidence regarding China's behaviour, I'm not sure what to take at face value any more. Hong Kong, Covid 19, Hwawei, the Rohingya situation...it all seems to be coming at once and could be considered part of an orchestrated , anti-Chinese narrative propagated by the West and its allies.
If China is the new world economic superpower, you could see why such a campaign might exist. Who would benefit from this second cold war?

While there probably are human rights abuses going on in China, I'm unsure of the objectivity of all this evidence of China and Russia doing dastardly things. There has to be more to this than meets the eye.

Also, people in glass houses. Including weapons that we sell to the Saudis being used in Yemen. Destabilising “interventions” in Iraq, Libya and then subsequently Syria.

Not to mention our buddies across the pond with rendition, off book CIA operations and Gantanmo Bay (still open BTW). Their OTT use of paramilitary police on their own people. The largest Prison population in the Western World and I think by capita.

You can extend USA interventions back to -

Grenada
Nicaragua
El Salvador
Cuba (Bay of Pigs)
Laos
Guatemala
Vietnam

China is here to stay.

Sadly that means Tibet ain’t going anywhere, Hong Kong will be cracked down on and any groups the Chinese see as a threat.

They are extending their Belt and Road Initiative all across the World and locking in key trade deals in emerging markets.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative

We are a globalised world and we sold our manufacturing off years ago, outsourcing it to China. Now we complain that they are getting too big?

Pandora’s box is open, and stopping extraditions to HK is about all we can do.

J

[Pete]

Or it’s all true and they are horrible regimes?


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I honestly have no idea. But would it not be slightly naive to take everything you see or hear as gospel? 🤷

[hibsbollah]

I honestly have no idea. But would it not be slightly naive to take everything you see or hear as gospel? 🤷

True. I believe two things simultaneously; that China has a brutal regime and is a threat to its own population, and that China’s strategic competitors will manipulate the news media to destabilize China.

There is also a moving feast going on; David Cameron and George Osborne were falling all over themselves to drum up Chinese trade and not give two ****s about HK just 4 years ago, and Trump was similarly nice about China, and said he had no problem with them ‘dealing with their Islamic terrorism problem’ in in 2017 and 2019.

China isn’t only important as a manufacturing centre where Western people can buy their white goods and tech (there are cheaper wages to be found elsewhere now), but for their growing middle class who buy western goods and services.

This report is very good, but when you dig into Jamestown they are Washington based think tank originally set up to destabilise Soviet Russia....objective? Who knows really.
https://jamestown.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Zenz-Internment-Sterilizations-and-IUDs.pdf?x60014

Amnesty International is always a good source for objectivity, and they’ve been watching the Uighur situation for a long time and are massively concerned
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/china-one-million-people-detained-mass-re-education-drive

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-west-failed-to-stop-the-holocaust-now-we-re-failing-the-uyghurs/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Don’t normally agree with this guy but I think he is right here.


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[Keith_M]

I honestly have no idea. But would it not be slightly naive to take everything you see or hear as gospel? 🤷


Nope, you absolutely have the right approach. You shouldn't take things at face value and remaining sceptical of what you see in the media is very wise.


However, in this instance, there's an awful lot of evidence from fairly impartial sources in regard to things happening in China, for instance with the Uighurs, Hong Kong and attempts to control the Media.

If you don't believe that, you could always try getting a flight to China, then stand in Tiananmen Square with a sign saying "Free Speech For All". In the unlikely event you survive that, nip over to Hong Kong and try the same thing there with a sign saying "I believe in Democracy".

[Paul1642]

A horrible country and we should stop all trade with them immediately! The human rights abuse that they are carrying out would be condemned by all of it were historical and not ongoing, or in a minor nation. It may seem futile only the UK cutting ties but if the EU, USA and the likes of Canada, Australia and New Zealand were all involved then it would make a huge difference. Economy will win before human rights in this case I guess. Horrible stuff and I doubt we (the public) are aware of a fraction of whats really going on.