Jambos Legal Challenge

[Dashing Bob S]

Ha ha ha ignore this thread I can’t do it, it’s not fair

[blackpoolhibs]

23637

[allezsauzee]

Time to wheel out the old cash cow again to help them pay for it.

[Kato]

Ha ha ha ignore this thread I can’t do it, it’s not fairSo is the second season of the Hearts' documentary going to be a court room drama?

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Irish_Steve]

What exactly is their legal challenge?

And if they are claiming compensation, what for? For being absolutely honking all season

I`d give them a tenner

[NYHibby]

What exactly is their legal challenge?

And if they are claiming compensation, what for? For being absolutely honking all season

I`d give them a tenner

I’ve been posting about this in the other thread today, but no one really knows.

I saw on legal twitter that they are supposedly judicial reviewing the April vote, but doing that makes no sense for various reasons. So it is most likely something else

[hibbydog]

Anne Budge is making a royal fool of herself. Nobody ever thought that reconstruction proposed by the very club it’s designed to save from relegation had any credibility at all. And the legal challenge? Laughable.

Typical martyrdom from the arrogant & self interested who completely lack the humility to admit their mistakes and accept their fate.

But very, very pleasing !!!!!

[Chip shop Joe]

Anyone know who is representing Hearts in this court case?

[hibbydog]

Anyone know who is representing Hearts in this court case?

I want it to be Donald Findlay. It obviously won’t be, but he’s the right fit - bigoted, corrupt and has a perfect track record for defending the indefensible.

Hope he charges them double.

[Logie Green]

Anyone know who is representing Hearts in this court case?

Hopefully Leslie Deans.....

[NYHibby]

Anyone know who is representing Hearts in this court case?

Before people here attack whoever their advocate turns out to be, you have to remember that the cab-rank rule applies. Some poor sod could get stuck arguing this in court even if they are not a jambo

Hearts solicitors are fair game though

[04Sauzee]

Just done my Asda online shop, made sure I stocked up on flour and eggs, don't want to be caught out like the last time they went on one of those bakeathons

[Hibby70]

Anyone know who is representing Hearts in this court case?

Petrocelli, but only if he's finished building his house.

[MacGruber]

Time to wheel out the old cash cow again to help them pay for it.

Oi - it's Mrs Budge to you!

[Dr What If?]

Hopefully Leslie Deans.....
Thought they were protesting relegation, not buying a flat?

[Greenfly]

I want it to be Donald Findlay. It obviously won’t be, but he’s the right fit - bigoted, corrupt and has a perfect track record for defending the indefensible.

Hope he charges them double.

Donald Findlay didn't show much love for Hearts today. Never had any time for the guy but listen to today's Sportsound podcast - first time in a while that anyone on there has actually stood up to the Hearts cabal - didn't take any crap from English or Levein and made it clear that Cowden had voted no for what he described as ethical reasons.

[CropleyWasGod]

Anyone know who is representing Hearts in this court case?

Lionel Hutz.

[O'Rourke3]

Time to wheel out the old cash cow again to help them pay for it.Not sure she will this time out....

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[Greenfly]

Lionel Hutz.

Hope so.

[greenpaper55]

Expel them from the league, let them find someone else to play with in August.

[Green Blood]

There will be further court proceedings after this is thrown out as FOH will probably have to take Bodge to court to finally get their hands on their share of the club. She's power mad and is not letting go! They have raised over 10 million, fine effort but have nothing to show for it.

[greenpaper55]

There will be further court proceedings after this is thrown out as FOH will probably have to take Bodge to court to finally get their hands on their share of the club. She's power mad and is not letting go! They have raised over 10 million, fine effort but have nothing to show for it.

You can see the castle on a clear day but not the football!

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Anyone know who is representing Hearts in this court case?

Craig Levein QC

[degenerated]

At least someone at the BBC sees it how it ishttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200615/491a52556b9a045ea6e12d67ae3947d2.jpg

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[greenpaper55]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279

[04Sauzee]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279

If he isn't on the Hearts payroll why are the media giving this guy so much press?

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279

What a pile of desperate straw clutching

[degenerated]

If he isn't on the Hearts payroll why are the media giving this guy so much press?The key takeaway from his long winded and crapulent whining is the standard sparryheid viewpoint on everything "That is not Hearts’ fault...."

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[green day]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279
He must have had his tinfoil hat on while dictating this latest one.

Demanding to know which clubs "spoke with forked tongues"🤭🤭

[bringbackbenny]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279


What a truly sad individual he is. the playground bully is still making threats unaware that everyone is laughing at him

[Jim44]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279


If he isn't on the Hearts payroll why are the media giving this guy so much press?


What a pile of desperate straw clutching

He is actually inferring that Doncaster has lied or juggled the figures of the indicative vote. It’s one thing to use his legal prowess :greengrin to whip the muppets into a frenzy but somebody should warn him about making slanderous accusations.

[007]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279

Has this sort of thing not caused them enough emotional damage already?

“They have said it was 26-16. I would like the SPFL to come out and specify who exactly voted yes and who voted no. After all, we live in a democracy. It is not North Korea. It is Great Britain. So let’s get the details.”

Aye, we live in a democracy whose general elections are done by a secret ballot. Can't see why he's so desperate to know other than so he can kick off some kind of hate campaign which will only add further to the embarrassing behaviour.

[007]

If he isn't on the Hearts payroll why are the media giving this guy so much press?

These rants probably aren't without Budge's blessing.
It seems like he is essentially to Hearts what Club 1872 seem to be to Rangers. Doing the dirty work and putting out statements which would be inappropriate to put out officially.

It is a very transparent tactic to try and get maximum compensation. The case is weak so the threat of the possible outcomes is the only card available to play hence the attempt to apply as much pressure as possible this way. If the case is so strong just lodge the papers to get it started straight away instead of playing silly games. The same silly games that lost more votes than they won because everyone outside of Hearts can see right through them.

I think we can expect a few more of these.

[RoYO!]

HEARTS risk being frozen out of football if they drag the SPFL through civil courts.

Jambos*chairman Ann Budge has doubled down on her legal action threat against fellow clubs if, as expected, her league reconstruction plan fails.

But that would be in direct breach of the SFA rules Hearts signed up to — and it could even see their membership revoked.

Taking legal action outwith the Swiss-based Court of Arbitration for Sport is punishable under the SFA’s Judicial Panel Protocol.

Under the SFA articles of association rule 5.1c, clubs have agreed “all members shall recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport as specified in the relevant provisions of the Fifa and the Uefa statutes”

They dont even have 5-1 to cling onto anymore:D

[GordonHFC]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279

Someone needs to explain to him that there was no vote.

[jacomo]

He is actually inferring that Doncaster has lied or juggled the figures of the indicative vote. It’s one thing to use his legal prowess :greengrin to whip the muppets into a frenzy but somebody should warn him about making slanderous accusations.


Jambos: it’s better to think people dislike you rather than confirm it’s true. Your pals over in Govan aren’t your pals. Neither are many lower division clubs it seems. And the top flight votes in its own self-interest, which you know all about.

[Smartie]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279

“This is Scotland, not North Korea.”

Do they tend to publicise the identity of the jury and which way they voted here, or anywhere else?

Wheesht Marty Bird.

[Joe6-2]

Anyone know who is representing Hearts in this court case?

Perry MASON

[Coco Bryce]

Deans doing an Ally McCosit here. Mind when he demanded names of committee members for something?

[HFC93]

Anyone know who is representing Hearts in this court case?

Lionel Hutz

[1875godsgift]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279


For some reason it's very, very pleasing that he managed to get the phrase 'It actually beggar's belief' in there. :jamboclow

[monktonharp]

“This is Scotland, not North Korea.

.I think he actually said this is |"great Britain" f/in twat so much about him I dislike

[monktonharp]

checked this is not North Korea, it's great Britain. ! fud

[SouthMoroccoStu]

“This is Scotland, not North Korea.”

Do they tend to publicise the identity of the jury and which way they voted here, or anywhere else?

Wheesht Marty Bird.

Is Ann Budge not Dear Leader over in Gorgie?

She and the regime say anything and the citizens lap it up no question asked

[Jamesie]

Before people here attack whoever their advocate turns out to be, you have to remember that the cab-rank rule applies. Some poor sod could get stuck arguing this in court even if they are not a jambo

Hearts solicitors are fair game though

While you’re right that the cab rank rule applies in theory, Hearts will have likely already identified and instructed an advocate of interest to take the instruction on based on his or her specialism in whichever area of law their challenge is based on.

[Clarence]

She is like some sherry-crazed old dowager who has lost the family silver at roulette, and who now decides to double up by betting the house as well.

[Clarence]

“This is Scotland, not North Korea.”

Do they tend to publicise the identity of the jury and which way they voted here, or anywhere else?

Wheesht Marty Bird.

Since when do we publicise how people have voted in this country? Yet these clowns think they have the right to demand this information just so they can aim some cheap reprisals at those who didn’t give them what they want? The delusions of grandeur of those who associate with hearts knows no bounds.

[Scorrie]

Has this sort of thing not caused them enough emotional damage already?

“They have said it was 26-16. I would like the SPFL to come out and specify who exactly voted yes and who voted no. After all, we live in a democracy. It is not North Korea. It is Great Britain. So let’s get the details.”

Aye, we live in a democracy whose general elections are done by a secret ballot. Can't see why he's so desperate to know other than so he can kick off some kind of hate campaign which will only add further to the embarrassing behaviour.

Correct me if I’m wrong but there wasn’t a vote. Deans can’t even get the basic facts straight.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Correct me if I’m wrong but there wasn’t a vote. Deans can’t even get the basic facts straight.

What chance have they got when he can’t even get the basics right.

[jacomo]

For some reason it's very, very pleasing that he managed to get the phrase 'It actually beggar's belief' in there. :jamboclow


Wee Huns in every way.

EDIT: They will be upset when they realise the Rangers voted no.

[The Count]

So it was all about what was best for Scottish football and not about Hearts during this pandamic.Now they are threatening to stop the league starting !!!! Contradition number ???!!!!

[Springbank]

I think he actually said this is |"great Britain" f/in twat so much about him I dislike

He's not much of a lawyer if he can't even get his jurisdictions right

Legally - Scotland (Scots Law)

Politically - UK
(our passports - for the short time being - say the United Kingdom of great britain & Northern Ireland)

There is no jurisdiction that is Great Britain. Not legally. Not politically. And not in the SPFL.

[brog]

We have to remember that only a couple of days ago Saughton Jambo was telling all & sundry that only us & Ross C in top flight were voting No! As SJ was Deans' mouthpiece it appears this is what Deans believed. Now his ego is offended. I can imagine the conversation in boardrooms up & down the country. Boss, it's Demented Deans on the phone again. Aw FFS can I no watch Antiques Roadshow in peace? Tell him of course we're voting Yes. I may have made 1 or 2 promises of similar quality & integrity in my youth. :wink:

[Jdawg]

We have to remember that only a couple of days ago Saughton Jambo was telling all & sundry that only us & Ross C in top flight were voting No! As SJ was Deans' mouthpiece it appears this is what Deans believed. Now his ego is offended. I can imagine the conversation in boardrooms up & down the country. Boss, it's Demented Deans on the phone again. Aw FFS can I no watch Antiques Roadshow in peace? Tell him of course we're voting Yes. I may have made 1 or 2 promises of similar quality & integrity in my youth. :wink:

He is a deluded fool. Pretending he was in the know and had sources. Jambo fools lapping it up. Wonder if he’s still doing his t-shirts? 😂

[Bostonhibby]

Deans could be onto something here, there's no way 15 other clubs could think there was some benefit in the Save Hearts In Trouble proposals for them.

Doncaster has probably fiddled the numbers up a bit here just to save Hearts from an even bigger embarrassment than they have already.

The SPFL could be in real legal trouble here if they ever have to sell a house.

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[CropleyWasGod]

Correct me if I’m wrong but there wasn’t a vote. Deans can’t even get the basic facts straight.

Wasn't there?

Don't tell him that, else we'll never hear the end of it.

[lucky]

On the call yesterday the SPLF never told the clubs who voted for or against reconstruction. They were only told the result. But for Deans to insinuate that the SPLF board have lied is potentially libellous and also it would be fraud on behalf of Doncaster and co.

[neil7908]

All on their own now that Patrick Thistle aren't proceeding.

[Sammy7nil]

23637

:aok:

[Greenbeard]

Dislike or Hate?
In the Teams To Dislike Stakes, I have always had the The Huns a clear leader, I thought with an unassailable lead of hatred proportion. Hertz have always been best of the rest but more in a take-the-mickey fun way compared to the The Huns. However that unassailable lead is shrinking and will be under threat if any sort of interdict to delay the resumption of the league is successful. Hertz could well become the most hated club in Scotland. Partick Thistle have gained respect, and sympathy for their predicament, coming out and saying they will fight their battle on the pitch. Not so wur neebors.

[Keith_M]

OK, if they want a Judicial Review of the original vote (the one where Dundee's vote went missing) and they're only doing this for the integrity of Scottish Football....

Does that mean they would have demanded this even if the clubs had increased the top league to fourteen and parachuted them in for next season?

So why, then, are they only now demanding this Judicial Review, immediately after the clubs said no?


Also, how on earth is any 'Judicial Review' even remotely related to them receiving compensation for being relegated?

[lapsedhibee]

The SPFL could be in real legal trouble here if they ever have to sell a house.



:faf:

[007]

We have to remember that only a couple of days ago Saughton Jambo was telling all & sundry that only us & Ross C in top flight were voting No! As SJ was Deans' mouthpiece it appears this is what Deans believed. Now his ego is offended. I can imagine the conversation in boardrooms up & down the country. Boss, it's Demented Deans on the phone again. Aw FFS can I no watch Antiques Roadshow in peace? Tell him of course we're voting Yes. I may have made 1 or 2 promises of similar quality & integrity in my youth. :wink:

You've heard of Boston Legal, now tune in to this week's episode of Saughton Legal (i.e. the social media output of legal info, not suggesting anyone should be in Saughton). 😀

[Keith_M]

You've heard of Boston Legal, now tune in to this week's episode of Saughton Legal (i.e. the social media source of legal info, not suggesting anyone should be in Saughton). ��



I have it on good authority (from Saughton-Jambo) that their lawyer's called Ally McBealin.

[G B Young]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279

Something 'sinister' about the vote?! It's desperate stuff. For a supposed lawyer he should listen in to Donald Findlay's masterclass on the Sportsound podcast last night which put Levein and English firmly in their place.

[InchHibby]

I am a legal expert with forty years experience primarily fighting for justice in cases such as this. It is, in my professional opinion, an open and shut case which will ultimately prove that the organisation named as, in this instance, the SPFL, do have a case to answer and will be found to have acted in a manner that is not only detrimental but unlawful to all clubs concerned.
Nah am only kidding, get the bxxxxxxx doon 😂😂😂😂

[Since452]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279

Look at the nick of him. If you didn't know who he was and he was lined up with 99 other folk of different footballing allegiances you'd pick him out as a Jambo.

[semaj64]

Deans speaks, cannot wait to see his face when they lose this case, all sorts of threats going on from this balloon

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/former-hearts-chairman-urges-spfl-reveal-vote-details-2885279


Democracy, the decision was unanimous so what's the issue, move on!! As Gary Mackay said in DR it was Hearts fault they were at bottom of the league and they are just making thing worse for them.

[vuefrom1875]

Look at the nick of him. If you didn't know who he was and he was lined up with 99 other folk of different footballing allegiances you'd pick him out as a Jambo.

Nae neck freak.

[Keith_M]

Look at the nick of him. If you didn't know who he was and he was lined up with 99 other folk of different footballing allegiances you'd pick him out as a Jambo.


Nae neck freak.


That's no way to talk to a fellow Hibby!

:tsk tsk:

[007]

I have it on good authority (from Saughton-Jambo) that their lawyer's called Ally McBealin.

😀

[snedzuk]

wonder if they raked about in their photo archive to find one with a poppy in it.

[Baader]

Deans is a shambling auld slaver. "I was privately expecting the vote to be somewhere between 25 and 30 in favour of the motion." Says all you need to know about his understanding of the situation.

[green day]

Partick are now joining Hearts in their doomed crusade.

Hilarious tears and snotters statement from Jackie Low

[Heisenberg]

Partick are now joining Hearts in their doomed crusade.

Hilarious tears and snotters statement from Jackie Low

I thought the same, tears everywhere.

[bingo70]

Partick are now joining Hearts in their doomed crusade.

Hilarious tears and snotters statement from Jackie Low

She’s the one that came across as a right bitch in the leaked WhatsApp messages eh?

Can’t remember what it was that she said but I remember she didn’t come across well at all.

[jacomo]

Partick are now joining Hearts in their doomed crusade.

Hilarious tears and snotters statement from Jackie Low


Please do share.

Partick have got the family of the biggest lottery winner in UK history in their corner, so I can’t say I’m overly worried about them.

[JimBHibees]

Partick are now joining Hearts in their doomed crusade.

Hilarious tears and snotters statement from Jackie Low

There is a certain irony in that two clubs who have had some of the biggest donations to them over a number of years end up at the bottom of the league. Got to be serious questions asked why this is so and a wee bit more self awareness required and an honest acceptance that their current positions are almost exclusively their own doing.

[JimBHibees]

She’s the one that came across as a right bitch in the leaked WhatsApp messages eh?

Can’t remember what it was that she said but I remember she didn’t come across well at all.

Think she made comments about the Alloa chairman bullying other teams when it sounded and looked like the opposite was true.

[Bostonhibby]

Deans is a shambling auld slaver. "I was privately expecting the vote to be somewhere between 25 and 30 in favour of the motion." Says all you need to know about his understanding of the situation.It's a professional assessment based on the average rise in Edinburgh house prices over the last 25 years less commission.

In essence he doesn't have any more info than the rest of us other than what Budge fed him and most folk knew the way this was going.

Guess they've managed to fill the Lord George Foulkes role though so every cloud has an electroplated lining for the big spenders.

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[NC1875]

Partick will join Hearts after receiving an offer to fund there legal fees. Anne budge/ James Anderson/Benny Factor is so generous

[KingPat4]

Partick are now joining Hearts in their doomed crusade.

Hilarious tears and snotters statement from Jackie Low

She does look a bit like Queen Ann. I wonder by any chance, are they related?

[RoYO!]

I can only assume that the ice has now melted and the champagne is sitting in a room temperature puddle!?

Perhaps our pink chums can confirm?

[KingPat4]

Ian Murray is awfie quiet?

:dunno:

[The 90+2]

She does look a bit like Queen Ann. I wonder by any chance, are they related?

Sure Low is a Hibee.

[The 90+2]

Ian Murray is awfie quiet?

:dunno:

Airdrie aren’t back playing or training?

[Since452]

Partick will join Hearts after receiving an offer to fund there legal fees. Anne budge/ James Anderson/Benny Factor is so generous

How rich is Anderson? See he's donated 250k to womens football as well.

[James Stephen]

Sure Low is a Hibee.

Her PR company is based in Leith, but i never heard she was a Hibee - assumed from her involvement with Thistle she was one of them?

[Andy74]

Partick will join Hearts after receiving an offer to fund there legal fees. Anne budge/ James Anderson/Benny Factor is so generous

Another ridiculous statement to go with it. Reconstruction should never be about saving 3 clubs from their relegations.

They are confusing so many different issues now from stopping the leagues to reconstruction.

I'm surprised that actual adults, with real money involved, can be looking at legal action as a serious option.

[Keith_M]

Please do share.

Partick have got the family of the biggest lottery winner in UK history in their corner, so I can’t say I’m overly worried about them.


“It was only a lack of funding that stopped us.

“At that time, we reserved the right to change our position should circumstances change.

“Last night, in response to our statement, we received a proposal to fully fund legal action should we wish to pursue it, at no cost to Thistle."

“After careful board consideration, we have now accepted this extremely generous offer of unexpected help.

“Today, following discussions with Hearts, we have agreed that we will launch a joint legal challenge to resolve what others have failed to do since April.

“To those who think we should just move on and accept what’s been dished out to us, yesterday 26 clubs put themselves first."

[partickthistle]

There is a certain irony in that two clubs who have had some of the biggest donations to them over a number of years end up at the bottom of the league. Got to be serious questions asked why this is so and a wee bit more self awareness required and an honest acceptance that their current positions are almost exclusively their own doing.

We have been rubbish but I think our demotion is harsher than hearts.
We had a game in hand and were 2 points behind the second bottom team. Why did we have the game in hand? Because the SFA asked us to postpone because the opposition were in the cup.
Also hearts relegation means they lose money but could still survive.
We on the other hand had teams like Forfar come out and say they were desperate to vote focus down so they could benefit from the size of the away support. Now the same Forfar are saying they want league one to mothball for a season that’s fine for them but it puts our own existence in jeopardy. Clyde are exactly the same.
The Forfar chairman couldn’t give a stuff about Partick Thistle other than to financially benefit from them(albeit he was stupid to admit it on radio).
The jags are not interested in a hearts v Hibs rivalry- it’s about fighting potentially for the clubs own existence

[James Stephen]

Another ridiculous statement to go with it. Reconstruction should never be about saving 3 clubs from their relegations.

They are confusing so many different issues now from stopping the leagues to reconstruction.

I'm surprised that actual adults, with real money involved, can be looking at legal action as a serious option.

Thats my take on it all too.

The decision to end season on ppg, therefore relegating those teams was one thing. I think its perfectly reasonable for someone to argue that is/was unfair, although i personally dont see how it can be good enough to decide the prizes but not pitfalls, but the point is its debatable.

The decision by most clubs not to agree to reconstruction that would have been damaging and costly, is another matter. And frankly, it was a ***** proposal, handled and packaged terribly by people without an ounce of the necessary diplomacy required to carry reconstruction in Scottish fitba, which at the best of times is very difficult.

The relegated clubs issue is really with the first decision which is what relegated them, the second decision was simply clubs choosing not enact a rubbish system to bring them back.

But then if they are challenging the ppg decision, they are effectively saying celtic dont deseve title, rangers and motherwell dont deserve Europe, etc etc

[madhatter]

What is this extremely generous offer that Partick Thistle have taken up? Something very dodgy about that. Surely, any generous offer they receive in this regard needs to be investigated.

[The 90+2]

Her PR company is based in Leith, but i never heard she was a Hibee - assumed from her involvement with Thistle she was one of them?

I could be wrong, I’m prone to it at times - when she was appointed at Partick someone who I can’t remember told me she was a Hibee and for that I held her in good light even through all this.

[Keith_M]

What is this extremely generous offer that Partick Thistle have taken up? Something very dodgy about that. Surely, any generous offer they receive in this regard needs to be investigated.


Why? It's only an offer to fund a joint legal challenge with Hearts.

If any legal challenge has merit, it'll go ahead. If not, it'll be thrown out pretty soon.

If that Anderson guy wants to waste his money on it, then so be it.

[Andy74]

We have been rubbish but I think our demotion is harsher than hearts.
We had a game in hand and were 2 points behind the second bottom team. Why did we have the game in hand? Because the SFA asked us to postpone because the opposition were in the cup.
Also hearts relegation means they lose money but could still survive.
We on the other hand had teams like Forfar come out and say they were desperate to vote focus down so they could benefit from the size of the away support. Now the same Forfar are saying they want league one to mothball for a season that’s fine for them but it puts our own existence in jeopardy. Clyde are exactly the same.
The Forfar chairman couldn’t give a stuff about Partick Thistle other than to financially benefit from them(albeit he was stupid to admit it on radio).
The jags are not interested in a hearts v Hibs rivalry- it’s about fighting potentially for the clubs own existence

It is a bit harsher yes, so was Hibs dropping to 7th when we could still have made Europe.

However, you were in that position. The weight of the future of the club etc was largely due to finding yourself there and on average you were getting less points than anyone else in the league.

Both Partick and Hearts are trying to deflect their position to being a Covid issue. That was just the thing that crystallised it in the end.

[ac1]

We have been rubbish but I think our demotion is harsher than hearts.
We had a game in hand and were 2 points behind the second bottom team. Why did we have the game in hand? Because the SFA asked us to postpone because the opposition were in the cup.
Also hearts relegation means they lose money but could still survive.
We on the other hand had teams like Forfar come out and say they were desperate to vote focus down so they could benefit from the size of the away support. Now the same Forfar are saying they want league one to mothball for a season that’s fine for them but it puts our own existence in jeopardy. Clyde are exactly the same.
The Forfar chairman couldn’t give a stuff about Partick Thistle other than to financially benefit from them(albeit he was stupid to admit it on radio).
The jags are not interested in a hearts v Hibs rivalry- it’s about fighting potentially for the clubs own existence

Personally I would have preferred football teams to be relegated on the pitch. This relegation whilst entertaining at points has not been that enjoyable.

Have nothing against Thistle - thing is with Hearts is you just know they will be shouting about being Scottish footballs moral crusaders when in reality this is a convenient way for them to escape a relegation that was staring them in the face, pay off the dross then overspend everyone next season whilst shouting about big teams, 5-1 and Vermin

[Since452]

I fear for Partick getting into bed with Hearts. It won't end well.

[oneone73]

We have been rubbish but I think our demotion is harsher than hearts.
We had a game in hand and were 2 points behind the second bottom team. Why did we have the game in hand? Because the SFA asked us to postpone because the opposition were in the cup.
Also hearts relegation means they lose money but could still survive.
We on the other hand had teams like Forfar come out and say they were desperate to vote focus down so they could benefit from the size of the away support. Now the same Forfar are saying they want league one to mothball for a season that’s fine for them but it puts our own existence in jeopardy. Clyde are exactly the same.
The Forfar chairman couldn’t give a stuff about Partick Thistle other than to financially benefit from them(albeit he was stupid to admit it on radio).
The jags are not interested in a hearts v Hibs rivalry- it’s about fighting potentially for the clubs own existence

Got a lot of sympathy for Partick Thistle - but why did they not propose 12-12-10-10? Surely only Hertz and ICT would have opposed that.

[calumhibee1]

It is a bit harsher yes, so was Hibs dropping to 7th when we could still have made Europe.

However, you were in that position. The weight of the future of the club etc was largely due to finding yourself there and on average you were getting less points than anyone else in the league.

Both Partick and Hearts are trying to deflect their position to being a Covid issue. That was just the thing that crystallised it in the end.

Yup. Hearts were cut adrift.

Fair enough Partick had a game in hand but over the season they’d still been the worst team in the Championship. A bit more sympathy for them but not a lot.

I’m not sure if Partick voted to end the season. However, Hearts did. And they were bottom when they voted for it knowing that would lead to them being relegated.

[madhatter]

Why? It's only an offer to fund a joint legal challenge with Hearts.

If any legal challenge has merit, it'll go ahead. If not, it'll be thrown out pretty soon.

If that Anderson guy wants to waste his money on it, then so be it.

Well, if it is purely to fund their joint legal challenge then that is fair but how do we know that the generous offer does not consistute a payment for taking a similar stance to Hearts? Hence, why I said investigate source of money. For a club like Partick to mess about with this when their club is likely to need all attention on survival is very strange even with generous offers going around. Partick genuinely think if they don't get relegated everything will be rosy?

We need money to help clubs survive not fight largely meaningless legal battles. Surely outside influence of this level brings the whole game into question? Clubs pandering to outside influence is concerning.

[Hibby70]

I still don't understand why 12,12,10,10 wasn't put forward as an alternative.

[Keith_M]

Personally I would have preferred football teams to be relegated on the pitch. This relegation whilst entertaining at points has not been that enjoyable.

Have nothing against Thistle - thing is with Hearts is you just know they will be shouting about being Scottish footballs moral crusaders when in reality this is a convenient way for them to escape a relegation that was staring them in the face, pay off the dross then overspend everyone next season whilst shouting about big teams, 5-1 and Vermin


Totally agree. The problem was that I don't really see that there was any genuine alternative to what happened.

Scottish Football had to stop, due to Covid-19. They had no idea when they'd be able to start playing again. Most clubs needed the money from final league placings and the only way to achieve that was to call the season early.

Then there was a call for reconstruction, which less than half the clubs were in favour of.

So, the only option left would be to pay out some kind of compensation to all relegated clubs. I think that would be fair enough, but not the millions that some Hearts fans think they deserve.

[The 90+2]

It is a bit harsher yes, so was Hibs dropping to 7th when we could still have made Europe.

However, you were in that position. The weight of the future of the club etc was largely due to finding yourself there and on average you were getting less points than anyone else in the league.

Both Partick and Hearts are trying to deflect their position to being a Covid issue. That was just the thing that crystallised it in the end.

Partick are going to, unfairly lose a lot more money than us. They are a different league from hearts when it comes to being treated.

[The 90+2]

Yup. Hearts were cut adrift.

Fair enough Partick had a game in hand but over the season they’d still been the worst team in the Championship. A bit more sympathy for them but not a lot.

I’m not sure if Partick voted to end the season. However, Hearts did. And they were bottom when they voted for it knowing that would lead to them being relegated.

No, over the season they where bottom with a game in hand. They win that then over the season that finished they aren’t the worst team in the league.

[The 90+2]

I still don't understand why 12,12,10,10 wasn't put forward as an alternative.

It still could be. I’m not sure why it’s not been.

Couldn’t Tom English propose it for the betterment of Partick and the highland and lowland clubs and prove he doesn’t just want into Craig Leveins sloppy seconds?

[partickthistle]

Totally agree. The problem was that I don't really see that there was any genuine alternative to what happened.

Scottish Football had to stop, due to Covid-19. They had no idea when they'd be able to start playing again. Most clubs needed the money from final league placings and the only way to achieve that was to call the season early.

Then there was a call for reconstruction, which less than half the clubs were in favour of.

So, the only option left would be to pay out some kind of compensation to all relegated clubs. I think that would be fair enough, but not the millions that some Hearts fans think they deserve.
Compensation would likely keep us in existence so that is a win for me and continue to play in league one would be okay as we would be in existence.
The problem is they were not willing to pay any while the likes of Forfar wanted to benefit from our away support then change their minds and want league one to mothball

[Since452]

I still don't understand why 12,12,10,10 wasn't put forward as an alternative.

There's one very big reason

[Springbank]

We have been rubbish but I think our demotion is harsher than hearts.
We had a game in hand and were 2 points behind the second bottom team. Why did we have the game in hand? Because the SFA asked us to postpone because the opposition were in the cup.
Also hearts relegation means they lose money but could still survive.
We on the other hand had teams like Forfar come out and say they were desperate to vote focus down so they could benefit from the size of the away support. Now the same Forfar are saying they want league one to mothball for a season that’s fine for them but it puts our own existence in jeopardy. Clyde are exactly the same.
The Forfar chairman couldn’t give a stuff about Partick Thistle other than to financially benefit from them(albeit he was stupid to admit it on radio).
The jags are not interested in a hearts v Hibs rivalry- it’s about fighting potentially for the clubs own existence

I have great sympathy for Thistle
The only reason you had a game in hand was because you accommodated others requests to postpone a fixture.

My only criticism is your board made a fatal mistake trusting Ann Budge.

Had Thistle said "Hearts deserved to go down (which they did), Stranraer deserved to go down (which they did), Kelty & Brora & Falkirk have a case for promotion, and we propose 12-12-10-10" then that would have passed.

Never trust a jambo.

The court case is doomed to fail too.

[Keith_M]

No, over the season they where bottom with a game in hand. They win that then over the season that finished they aren’t the worst team in the league.


Given the fact that they were bottom, because their form was so atrocious, what was the likelihood that they would have won it, though?

Don't get me wrong, I do have sympathy for their position, I'm just not that convinced they were showing signs they were going to recover from that.

[Not So Young]

Well, if it is purely to fund their joint legal challenge then that is fair but how do we know that the generous offer does not consistute a payment for taking a similar stance to Hearts? Hence, why I said investigate source of money. For a club like Partick to mess about with this when their club is likely to need all attention on survival is very strange even with generous offers going around. Partick genuinely think if they don't get relegated everything will be rosy?

We need money to help clubs survive not fight largely meaningless legal battles. Surely outside influence of this level brings the whole game into question? Clubs pandering to outside influence is concerning.

The money is probably from the Weir family

[The 90+2]

Given the fact that they were bottom, because their form was so atrocious, what was the likelihood that they would have won it, though?

Don't get me wrong, I do have sympathy for their position, I'm just not that convinced they were showing signs they were going to recover from that.

Probably as good a chance of Hearts turning us over or St Mirren doing Hearts. The point is they still had a game they had postponed to play in another SPFL trophy and got relegated because of it.

[Keith_M]

Compensation would likely keep us in existence so that is a win for me and continue to play in league one would be okay as we would be in existence.
The problem is they were not willing to pay any while the likes of Forfar wanted to benefit from our away support then change their minds and want league one to mothball


Yep, I can see the objection to Forfar's position.

[madhatter]

Credit to Budge and Hearts' media team and the "pundits". Haven't half done an amazing job of making everyone, but Hearts, culpable for their downfall. Think this is also why they have done well with FOH. Play those tribalistic strings and control the narrative.

[weecounty hibby]

Compensation would likely keep us in existence so that is a win for me and continue to play in league one would be okay as we would be in existence.
The problem is they were not willing to pay any while the likes of Forfar wanted to benefit from our away support then change their minds and want league one to mothball
Why didn't PTFC propose 12-12-10-10? I think that would have probably gone through. Don't get into bed with the tarts. They do not give a **** about anyone else bar themselves and you will end up as collateral damage if not careful

[neil7908]

Probably as good a chance of Hearts turning us over or St Mirren doing Hearts. The point is they still had a game they had postponed to play in another SPFL trophy and got relegated because of it.

I don't think it's fair to say they got relegated because of it - they were relegated due to all the other games they lost in the season that put them bottom at that point. Given their record, nothing to suggest with confidence they'd win the game.

[GreenPJ]

I still don't understand why 12,12,10,10 wasn't put forward as an alternative.

Because Hearts were the driver in this whole piece. Partick even admit in their statement at the weekend that they had held their counsel but felt they needed to speak up at the 11th hour. If you believe you have been impacted by a great injustice you don't wait until the jury is sitting back down to make your case - you do it from day one up until the 11th hour.

[Hibeesforever]

I still don't understand why 12,12,10,10 wasn't put forward as an alternative.

Partick Thistle only have themselves to blame, backed Hearts when should have gone alone for 12-12-10-10

[jgl07]

So what exactly are Hearts expecting from their legal action?

Are they seeking an inderdict to stop the season starting until they get their way or are they seeking compensation for their 'unfair' relegation.

The clubs in the Premiership (including Hearts?) voted to end the season. They could have followed the same line as the English Premier League and resumed the season.

There were never going to be the votes to restructure at this stage. In fact there wasn't even a majority of clubs wanting to alter the current situation let alone the super-majority needed for such drastic change.

Whater legal redress Hearts are seeking will make them about as popular as a fart at a church service with the rest of the clubs. The lower reaches of the SPFL are likely to be struggling to survive with little prospect of supporters being allowed inside grounds this side of New Year. I suspect that most of the Championship clubs will be in the same boat.

And that's before Hearts' legal adventures. If the Premiership matches are blocked (in the very unlikely even of Hearts getting anywhere) this could put the TV deals at threat. Sky/BT/BBC/Amazon are already screening every EPL match live. They may just decide to continue this into the next season and forget Scottish Football.

[erin go bragh]

We have been rubbish but I think our demotion is harsher than hearts.
We had a game in hand and were 2 points behind the second bottom team. Why did we have the game in hand? Because the SFA asked us to postpone because the opposition were in the cup.
Also hearts relegation means they lose money but could still survive.
We on the other hand had teams like Forfar come out and say they were desperate to vote focus down so they could benefit from the size of the away support. Now the same Forfar are saying they want league one to mothball for a season that’s fine for them but it puts our own existence in jeopardy. Clyde are exactly the same.
The Forfar chairman couldn’t give a stuff about Partick Thistle other than to financially benefit from them(albeit he was stupid to admit it on radio).
The jags are not interested in a hearts v Hibs rivalry- it’s about fighting potentially for the clubs own existence

no league wins in your last 8 games . No wins in 2020 . If that’s not relegation form . Yes on paper it looks harsh but you throw in they stats and you probably would have went down .. Had your chairman not jumped in bed with Budge and instead campaigned for a 12-12-10-10 league set up .
Id maybe be looking at your chairman as he has done a horrendous job on and off the pitch .imo .

[NC1875]

We have been rubbish but I think our demotion is harsher than hearts.
We had a game in hand and were 2 points behind the second bottom team. Why did we have the game in hand? Because the SFA asked us to postpone because the opposition were in the cup.
Also hearts relegation means they lose money but could still survive.
We on the other hand had teams like Forfar come out and say they were desperate to vote focus down so they could benefit from the size of the away support. Now the same Forfar are saying they want league one to mothball for a season that’s fine for them but it puts our own existence in jeopardy. Clyde are exactly the same.
The Forfar chairman couldn’t give a stuff about Partick Thistle other than to financially benefit from them(albeit he was stupid to admit it on radio).
The jags are not interested in a hearts v Hibs rivalry- it’s about fighting potentially for the clubs own existence

Yes yous had a game in hand. But the league was decided on points per game average and yous had the worst over the season. Who was the game in hand against out of curiousity ?

[steviehibsleith]

Must behave towards the Scottish FA and other members with the utmost good faith.

This is from SFA rules.

Haven’t see yet exactly what Hearts/PT court actions are but surely when this happens all the SFA have to do is Cancel their License. Inform UEFA/FIFA what is happening confirm they support it.

No court case as why would Hearts go to court win or lose they won’t play football again . SFA UEFA FIFA will not approve a Licencse.

[Spike Mandela]

UEFA’s 2 criteria for ending the season early were as follows......

-Existence of an official order prohibiting sports events so that the domestic competitions cannot be completed before a date that would make it possible to complete the current season in good time before the next season to start.
-Insurmountable economic problems which make finishing the season impossible because it would put at risk the long-term financial stability of the domestic competition and/or clubs.

I presume the SPFL have enough evidence to prove one or both of these criteria were met.

The reconstruction issue was thoroughly considered, a variety of proposals put forward and I can’t see how a court can overturn a democratic decision that had well over 50% of all clubs backing it.

The only weakness I can see in the SPFL’s defence is the whole Dundee voting farce. If Hearts or Partick can prove voter fraud or some kind of invalidity of the outcome this would be a matter of complete incompetence by the SPFL board.
I would presume the SPFL have their ducks in a row and are confident of the integrity of the vote and wil have explained this satisfacorily to all the clubs..

[weecounty hibby]

UEFA’s 2 criteria for ending the season early were as follows......

-Existence of an official order prohibiting sports events so that the domestic competitions cannot be completed before a date that would make it possible to complete the current season in good time before the next season to start.
-Insurmountable economic problems which make finishing the season impossible because it would put at risk the long-term financial stability of the domestic competition and/or clubs.

I presume the SPFL have enough evidence to prove one or both of these criteria were met.

The reconstruction issue was thoroughly considered, a variety of proposals put forward and I can’t see how a court can overturn a democratic decision that had well over 50% of all clubs backing it.

The only weakness I can see in the SPFL’s defence is the whole Dundee voting farce. If Hearts or Partick can prove voter fraud or some kind of invalidity of the outcome this would be a matter of complete incompetence by the SPFL board.
I would presume the SPFL have their ducks in a row and are confident of the integrity of the vote and wil have explained this satisfacorily to all the clubs..

You have time to research that and type it up but not to answer my texts!!

Of course they have their ducks in a row. Doncaster is making complete tits out of hearts. I think that is why it has dragged on so long. He had to allow them every opportunity to put forward a case for reconstruction that would be acceptable to enough clubs using the current voting set up. Hearts are a complete laughing stock but their cheerleaders in BBCjambo will make them out to be martyrs on a crusade to save Scottish football

[Aldo]

I’m late to this party but is this a joint effort or is Budge just finding PTFC legal bid?


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[EI255]

Partick Thistle only have themselves to blame, backed Hearts when should have gone alone for 12-12-10-10I've not much time for PTFC now.

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[bingo70]

I feel a bit sorry for Partick as I think the SPFL could have used a more advanced method of average points per game that took into account the games that each team still had left to play. If that would have made a difference to them I don’t know but we had plenty time on our hands so it’s something that could have been calculated.

Other than that though, if they didn’t want relegated they should have won more games, or put forward a proposal for a 12-12-10-10 league set up. The fact they never suggests they were just wanting to hang onto Hearts cost tails and presumably want them to front the legal challenge.

[Andy74]

Partick are going to, unfairly lose a lot more money than us. They are a different league from hearts when it comes to being treated.

Harshly maybe but not unfairly. The agreed way to end the season was the fairest way to do it.

They will lose a lot more money than us (relatively) due to being the worst team in their league. We weren't.

And actually now I consider it, we could have had a European qualification and run in Europe so who knows how much we've potentially missed out on?

[Andy74]

I don't think it's fair to say they got relegated because of it - they were relegated due to all the other games they lost in the season that put them bottom at that point. Given their record, nothing to suggest with confidence they'd win the game.

This is exactly what the average points per game is all about. It takes into the account the likely points they'd have got from that game.

[ballengeich]

UEFA’s 2 criteria for ending the season early were as follows......

-Existence of an official order prohibiting sports events so that the domestic competitions cannot be completed before a date that would make it possible to complete the current season in good time before the next season to start.
-Insurmountable economic problems which make finishing the season impossible because it would put at risk the long-term financial stability of the domestic competition and/or clubs.

I presume the SPFL have enough evidence to prove one or both of these criteria were met.

The reconstruction issue was thoroughly considered, a variety of proposals put forward and I can’t see how a court can overturn a democratic decision that had well over 50% of all clubs backing it.

The only weakness I can see in the SPFL’s defence is the whole Dundee voting farce. If Hearts or Partick can prove voter fraud or some kind of invalidity of the outcome this would be a matter of complete incompetence by the SPFL board.
I would presume the SPFL have their ducks in a row and are confident of the integrity of the vote and wil have explained this satisfacorily to all the clubs..


Given that it's not certain even now that the new season will begin on 1st August I'd say that the first of the UEFA criteria is definitely satisfied.

If the procedure round the Dundee vote was declared invalid couldn't the SPFL simply repeat the vote with proper attention to admin details? To be successful I reckon Hearts/PT would have to establish that the substance of the vote infringed either the SPFL's own constitution or some broader legal principle.

We'll find out before too long whether they really think they have a case or are just trying to be a sufficient nuisance to attract a payoff to shut up.

[Andy74]

Given that it's not certain even now that the new season will begin on 1st August I'd say that the first of the UEFA criteria is definitely satisfied.

If the procedure round the Dundee vote was declared invalid couldn't the SPFL simply repeat the vote with proper attention to admin details? To be successful I reckon Hearts/PT would have to establish that the substance of the vote infringed either the SPFL's own constitution or some broader legal principle.

We'll find out before too long whether they really think they have a case or are just trying to be a sufficient nuisance to attract a payoff to shut up.

Deloitte reviewed that vote process and found it to be in order. As you say, worst case the vote is retaken. Doesn't help Hearts either way.

[blackpoolhibs]

Harshly maybe but not unfairly. The agreed way to end the season was the fairest way to do it.

They will lose a lot more money than us (relatively) due to being the worst team in their league. We weren't.

And actually now I consider it, we could have had a European qualification and run in Europe so who knows how much we've potentially missed out on?

:agree:
I've said this already on other threads, every club could say they might have finished further up the leagues they are in, which all carry bigger prize money.

[Aldo]

Do PTFC actually realise their football licence could be at risk here.

They’ve went from having some class to selling their soul!

Budge btw has played a blinder and is not only going to shaft hearts but PTFC too.

Mind you PTFc are their own entity but I really do wonder what advice they have taken.


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[007]

Partick Thistle only have themselves to blame, backed Hearts when should have gone alone for 12-12-10-10

I think it was right that Hearts, Partick and Stranraer stuck together regarding reconstruction, maybe it would have worked out better for them if Partick had led it given their circumstances with the game in hand. Certainly Partick's style (the diplomatic statement at the weekend) would have been better than Hearts overly aggressive approach but probably still wouldn't have been enough to get it over the line.

I did think if the vote was against reconstruction then Partick (and Stranraer) should then suggest the 12-12-10-10 structure however that doesn’t stand much chance either because the 16-26 result means it wasn't just the Premiership against it.

[JimBHibees]

We have been rubbish but I think our demotion is harsher than hearts.
We had a game in hand and were 2 points behind the second bottom team. Why did we have the game in hand? Because the SFA asked us to postpone because the opposition were in the cup.
Also hearts relegation means they lose money but could still survive.
We on the other hand had teams like Forfar come out and say they were desperate to vote focus down so they could benefit from the size of the away support. Now the same Forfar are saying they want league one to mothball for a season that’s fine for them but it puts our own existence in jeopardy. Clyde are exactly the same.
The Forfar chairman couldn’t give a stuff about Partick Thistle other than to financially benefit from them(albeit he was stupid to admit it on radio).
The jags are not interested in a hearts v Hibs rivalry- it’s about fighting potentially for the clubs own existence

Huge sympathy for Thistle especially given the game in hand and only a couple of points behind however I am not sure that there could have been another alternative. As others have said got the impression that Hearts railroaded any reconstruction discussion with possibly 12 12 10 10 not able to be put forward in saying that the 11 1 premiership is a major hurdle to change and should have been changed when Rangers out of the league unfortunately Aberdeen decided otherwise. Obviously hugely worrying given the doubt when league 1 will start hopefully that is at same time as championship.

[Keith_M]

I think Thistle should now make a proposal for a 12-12-10-10 structure for next season.

It would have wide ranging benefits without any down sides for the current 12 premiership teams.


Kelty and Brora would be promoted.
Thistle and Stranraer wouldn't be relegated.
The Premiership wouldn't be subject to the ridiculous 6-8 split from the 14 team proposal.


The fact that the only club to gain no benefit would be Hearts is irrelevant. Just pay them a wee bit compo and tell them to get on with it.

[660]

I think Thistle should now make a proposal for a 12-12-10-10 structure for next season.

It would have wide ranging benefits without any down sides for the current 12 premiership teams.


Kelty and Brora would be promoted.
Thistle and Stranraer wouldn't be relegated.
The Premiership wouldn't be subject to the ridiculous 6-8 split from the 14 team proposal.


The fact that the only club to gain no benefit would be Hearts is irrelevant. Just pay them a wee bit compo and tell them to get on with it.

Plus it would be hilarious

[Alan62]

I think it was right that Hearts, Partick and Stranraer stuck together regarding reconstruction, maybe it would have worked out better for them if Partick had led it given their circumstances with the game in hand. Certainly Partick's style (the diplomatic statement at the weekend) would have been better than Hearts overly aggressive approach but probably still wouldn't have been enough to get it over the line.

I did think if the vote was against reconstruction then Partick (and Stranraer) should then suggest the 12-12-10-10 structure however that doesn’t stand much chance either because the 16-26 result means it wasn't just the Premiership against it.

Nobody has had the opportunity to vote on a 12-12-10-10 reconstruction so we don't know how a vote would go on that. Break it down though. Premiership clubs, no change, so no reason to vote against. Next 12, one big greetin' face, everyone else, tickety boo. Next 10, none relegated, two effectively promoted. Next 10, two new lads delighted, one saved from the wilderness, 7 in the same league they expected to be in.

Have I missed something here?

[Lunatic]

No, over the season they where bottom with a game in hand. They win that then over the season that finished they aren’t the worst team in the league.


Yeah, but it was a game in hand against a playoff team. They were bottom for a reason and almost certainly would have lost it anyway.

[Waxy]

We’ve been going round in circles for weeks. Could have would have should haves dont cut it. The season ended abruptly with current places final for a few very good reasons.
There is no case.

[Iain G]

I've not much time for PTFC now.

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They are changing their name to PTSD after what the nasty other clubs did to them :greengrin

[Danderhall Hibs]

Yeah, but it was a game in hand against a playoff team. They were bottom for a reason and almost certainly would have lost it anyway.

I think I read that they had already beaten them (ICT) twice this season?

[Nakedmanoncrack]

We’ve been going round in circles for weeks. Could have would have should haves dont cut it. The season ended abruptly with current places final for a few very good reasons.
There is no case.

Correct.
If there was a case, then none of the final places can be accepted, however I dont see the likes of Tom English risking upsetting the likes of Celtic by, recognising this is the logic of where they are going.
Why should everyone have to accept a final table based on average points, except the worst teams in each league? The ones who do deserve to be losers.
Its a nonsense.

[hibeerealist]

Nobody has had the opportunity to vote on a 12-12-10-10 reconstruction so we don't know how a vote would go on that. Break it down though. Premiership clubs, no change, so no reason to vote against. Next 12, one big greetin' face, everyone else, tickety boo. Next 10, none relegated, two effectively promoted. Next 10, two new lads delighted, one saved from the wilderness, 7 in the same league they expected to be in.

Have I missed something here?

I posted on here at the start of all this that 12-12-10-10 was the most sensible restructure and I think it would have got support however as you say Budge was controlling the reconstruction process (for the good of the game in Scotland) and 12-12-10-10 was not on her radar cos it did not save Hertz!!

It was all targeted to save one club and one club only I hope the SFA (go on Rod) have briefed UEFA and serious sanctions can be implemented very soon.

[Waxy]

Correct.
If there was a case, then none of the final places can be accepted, however I dont see the likes of Tom English risking upsetting the likes of Celtic by, recognising this is the logic of where they are going.
Why should everyone have to accept a final table based on average points, except the worst teams in each league? The ones who do deserve to be losers.
Its a nonsense.More likely hearts and Partick will be shown up in court as chancers trying to avoid relegation on a technicality.They cant go unpunished for this surely?

[Keith_M]

More likely hearts and Partick will be shown up in court as chancers trying to avoid relegation on a technicality.They cant go unpunished for this surely?


Possibly, but I have a feeling that it'll never reach that stage.

I think the most likely outcome, after much greeting and wailing from Thistle and Hearts, will be that the SPFL will announce that they've come to an amicable agreement regarding compensation, Hearts will announce that they've won the war, and that'll be an end to it

[Alan62]

Correct.
If there was a case, then none of the final places can be accepted, however I dont see the likes of Tom English risking upsetting the likes of Celtic by, recognising this is the logic of where they are going.
Why should everyone have to accept a final table based on average points, except the worst teams in each league? The ones who do deserve to be losers.
Its a nonsense.

This, to me, is the key point. If the formula for ending the league season is wrong for the bottom clubs, it's wrong for all the clubs. If reconstruction is the method used to compensate the injustice to the relegated clubs then it must equally benefit all the other clubs. This is, of course, impossible.

The two other options available were playing the league to a conclusion - which was deemed to be impossible - and declaring the league null and void. The downside of null and void was that the prize money couldn't have been paid for something that didn't happen.

So, to re-iterate, what's the least awful option for Scottish football? And the answer is reconstruction on a 12-12-10-10 format.

[Radium]

This, to me, is the key point. If the formula for ending the league season is wrong for the bottom clubs, it's wrong for all the clubs. If reconstruction is the method used to compensate the injustice to the relegated clubs then it must equally benefit all the other clubs. This is, of course, impossible.

The two other options available were playing the league to a conclusion - which was deemed to be impossible - and declaring the league null and void. The downside of null and void was that the prize money couldn't have been paid for something that didn't happen.

So, to re-iterate, what's the least awful option for Scottish football? And the answer is reconstruction on a 12-12-10-10 format.

Null and void would have opened the league and individual clubs to claims from companies and individuals who had paid into the league season. Tickets, sponsorship, advertising.

That was the Hearts/ ICT/ TTRFC plan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Alan62]

Null and void would have opened the league and individual clubs to claims from companies and individuals who had paid into the league season. Tickets, sponsorship, advertising.

That was the Hearts/ ICT/ TTRFC plan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I absolutely agree. Null and void solves the sporting problem but creates much worse financial problems. Once it has been set aside as being unviable, then there has to be a formula for creating the final league positions. Once that has been set, there are winners and losers from the formula. It really isn't anything more than a logical process.

Nobody seems to be complaining about the method, just about the outcome.

[Eyrie]

I’m late to this party but is this a joint effort or is Budge just finding PTFC legal bid

That was my initial reaction. If Hearts are seriously taking the case to court, then the additional cost to add Partick's name won't be that much but it would allow them to argue that the principle of relegation is wrong instead of only that their own relegation was "unjust".

[Aldo]

That was my initial reaction. If Hearts are seriously taking the case to court, then the additional cost to add Partick's name won't be that much but it would allow them to argue that the principle of relegation is wrong instead of only that their own relegation was "unjust".

It would but it obvious budge has been on the phone and big time!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

No, over the season they where bottom with a game in hand. They win that then over the season that finished they aren’t the worst team in the league.

Game in hand or not, they still had the worst PPG in the league (I think anyway, I’m sure somebody on here said that). I would have said that makes them the worst team in the league regardless of whether they could have got off the bottom if they won their game in hand.

[Real Emerald]

This, to me, is the key point. If the formula for ending the league season is wrong for the bottom clubs, it's wrong for all the clubs. If reconstruction is the method used to compensate the injustice to the relegated clubs then it must equally benefit all the other clubs. This is, of course, impossible.

The two other options available were playing the league to a conclusion - which was deemed to be impossible - and declaring the league null and void. The downside of null and void was that the prize money couldn't have been paid for something that didn't happen.

So, to re-iterate, what's the least awful option for Scottish football? And the answer is reconstruction on a 12-12-10-10 format.

I think the right procedures have been followed and Hearts have finally ran out of luck. A permanent 14 team league would have been a disaster and a temporary one would just kick the problem down the road and Hearts would have survived.

Playing a bit of devils advocate here but they could have added the relegated team to each of the leagues making the Premiership 13 for example. Games are going spread all over the place due to TV closed doors fixtures so you could easily have got around one team left out each week. It could also have been used to benefit teams in Europe by giving them a rest the weeks they were playing away in Europe.

I would be reluctant to give Hearts a life line but it could have worked for a season, especially next season given the crowd restrictions. On that I’ll now get my coat 😊

[A Hi-Bee]

I think the right procedures have been followed and Hearts have finally ran out of luck. A permanent 14 team league would have been a disaster and a temporary one would just kick the problem down the road and Hearts would have survived.

Playing a bit of devils advocate here but they could have added the relegated team to each of the leagues making the Premiership 13 for example. Games are going spread all over the place due to TV closed doors fixtures so you could easily have got around one team left out each week. It could also have been used to benefit teams in Europe by giving them a rest the weeks they were playing away in Europe.

I would be reluctant to give Hearts a life line but it could have worked for a season, especially next season given the crowd restrictions. On that I’ll now get my coat 😊

**** the hertz, its what you get for being mince for most of the season, when bottom you get relegated.

[Real Emerald]

**** the hertz, its what you get for being mince for most of the season, when bottom you get relegated.

Correct 😂

[Since452]

Sorry if it's already been discussed but where is this multimillion compensation figure coming from? It's not as if Scottish football has that kind of money floating about. Who is going to stump up 6/8 million or whatever it is they're saying?

[Bostonhibby]

Sorry if it's already been discussed but where is this multimillion compensation figure coming from? It's not as if Scottish football has that kind of money floating about. Who is going to stump up 6/8 million or whatever it is they're saying?It might not be the SPFL as the members, including Hearts seem to have a liability limited by their individual £1 shareholding.

If that's right they'll get £41 if they win and want the members to pay up, or the SPFL entity could always just go into administration.

I'm sure Deans, Lionel Hutz and Saul Goodman will keep them right on this one.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

no league wins in your last 8 games . No wins in 2020 . If that’s not relegation form . Yes on paper it looks harsh but you throw in they stats and you probably would have went down .. Had your chairman not jumped in bed with Budge and instead campaigned for a 12-12-10-10 league set up .
Id maybe be looking at your chairman as he has done a horrendous job on and off the pitch .imo .
The game in hand argument doesn't wash anyway - that's why it went to points per game.

St Johnstone had a game in hand over us I think, points per game put them above us - if Partick had been better they might have found themselves lifted off the bottom with that method.

[Eyrie]

The game in hand argument doesn't wash anyway - that's why it went to points per game.

St Johnstone had a game in hand over us I think, points per game put them above us - if Partick had been better they might have found themselves lifted off the bottom with that method.

Their game in hand was against Sevco, and I think it was at Ibrox. Had it been played, only an unlikely St Johnstone win would have put them above us in the table due to our superior goal difference.

Nevertheless, the right decision was made on how to finish the season.

[ballengeich]

Sorry if it's already been discussed but where is this multimillion compensation figure coming from? It's not as if Scottish football has that kind of money floating about. Who is going to stump up 6/8 million or whatever it is they're saying?

Money would come from the SPFL's future income i.e. the tv deal for the coming season. If Hearts and Partick are successful everyone in the SPFL will get less as prize money is allocated as a percentage for each position in the league.

[FilipinoHibs]

What court will they start in? Is it the SPFl which is really the clubs they will be suing for loss of earnings. Any defence is that the SPFL are clubs. The clubs voted to call the league and against reconstruction. There has been an independent review of the first vote. All clubs will suffer big losses because of lack of match day income. Any club relegated losses out financially.
I can't see how they have a leg to stand on.

[Hibeesforever]

Hearts dont seem to understand that we play in a sporting league with relegation. They were bottom, so go down, no legal case is going to change that fact!

[Waxy]

Hearts dont seem to understand that we play in a sporting league with relegation. They were bottom, so go down, no legal case is going to change that fact!

UEFA already said sporting merit must be used.

[Sammy7nil]

Paid Member

1,588 posts
Location - Edinburgh
Posted 7 minutes ago
41 minutes ago, David McCaig said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/david-winnie-is-fearful-of-lasting-damage-as-relegated-pair-go-to-court-z0rkv5w2d


David Winnie, a Scottish Cup winner with St Mirren who also turned out for Aberdeen, Hearts and Dundee, knows the game but his legal eye sets him apart as member clubs prepare to take action against Scottish football.

Winnie, the head of sports law at Mayfair-based Charles Douglas Solicitors LLP, believes that the process of bringing Scottish football grinding to a halt may have already begun. The 53-year-old also warned that Hearts and Partick Thistle going down the judicial route could do irreparable damage to the Scottish game, both financially and by fomenting resentment which will take years to dissipate.

“When you look at sums of £6-7 million being bandied about as the cost to Hearts of not being in the top tier this season, I don’t think they had any other option but to do this,” he said.

“The cost of taking this action will be outweighed by the financial cost of demotion so, from their perspective, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain in that regard. The way things have gone with reconstruction, this was always likely to end up in court.

“Hearts have two causes of action contractually. Regarding membership of the SPFL, it’s an agreement between the clubs and the body itself and the clubs are party to a contract with the SPFL and each other.

“If the SPFL, by omission or by failing to follow its own corporate framework in passing a written resolution, will be in breach of that contract. You need to take it back to the issue of Dundee’s ‘missing’ vote.

“As far as I can see, the original ‘no’ vote from Dundee [which opposed ending the season] should have stood. Their secretary, Eric Drysdale, confirmed that the vote had been sent and that it had been received: it wasn’t a bounce back.

“In company law, there is no obligation on any member to cast a negative vote. Generally, members will vote in favour of a resolution and, if they don’t reply, they’re not in favour.

“However, what had been invited in terms of this resolution was a submission by clubs as to whether they were for or against the motion to end the season. When Dundee voted no, that should have stood.

“I also think there was also a lack of information provided to the members on which to base their decisions, specifically the fact that money would need to be repaid to Sky for unfulfilled fixtures. You could argue as to whether or not that information was material but the financial implications for Hearts are catastrophic.”

Season 2020-21 will be the most compressed in the game’s history, with competitions being carried over from last season due to the Covid-19 crisis at one end and an early close to accommodate the displaced Euro 2020 finals at the other, and Winnie anticipates that state of affairs worsening.

“If I was advising Hearts, I would seek an interim interdict on the Premiership season starting, on the grounds that they should be involved in it. In fact, given that they announced their intention to take the SPFL to court immediately after their reconstruction plan was voted down on Monday, I suspect that they have already done so.

“That would provide the SPFL with a logistical nightmare when it comes to delivering a fixture list. Ideally, this case will be fast-tracked at the Court of Session — the window is narrowing so the ruling must be expedited. If not, it may drag on for months and, if the ruling is in Hearts’ favour, then the Premiership would need to be restarted with them in it, which could lead to chaos and more contractual trouble with the broadcasters.

“I would also seek compensation for being relegated when there was a mathematical possibility that Hearts could have survived. Even if that amounted to only half of their projected losses for next season, that is money that would be paid for by the other members.

“Factor in Partick Thistle’s parachute payment and you could be looking at the other 40 clubs each losing around £100,000. Celtic are the only ones who can afford that — this action has the potential to decimate Scottish football.

“The game isn’t meant to be played out in court and the judge shouldn’t be the referee. However this ends, no one will be happy and there will be a whole host of ill will directed at Hearts and Thistle.

“I have sympathy for the SPFL board, who were attempting to deal with a situation which was truly unprecedented. They have admitted to making mistakes but those procedural errors will provide Hearts with ammunition. It will still be difficult for them to succeed and, ultimately, there will be no winners.”

[greenpaper55]

Ex Jambo's waffle

[FilipinoHibs]

Paid Member

1,588 posts
Location - Edinburgh
Posted 7 minutes ago
41 minutes ago, David McCaig said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/david-winnie-is-fearful-of-lasting-damage-as-relegated-pair-go-to-court-z0rkv5w2d


David Winnie, a Scottish Cup winner with St Mirren who also turned out for Aberdeen, Hearts and Dundee, knows the game but his legal eye sets him apart as member clubs prepare to take action against Scottish football.

Winnie, the head of sports law at Mayfair-based Charles Douglas Solicitors LLP, believes that the process of bringing Scottish football grinding to a halt may have already begun. The 53-year-old also warned that Hearts and Partick Thistle going down the judicial route could do irreparable damage to the Scottish game, both financially and by fomenting resentment which will take years to dissipate.

“When you look at sums of £6-7 million being bandied about as the cost to Hearts of not being in the top tier this season, I don’t think they had any other option but to do this,” he said.

“The cost of taking this action will be outweighed by the financial cost of demotion so, from their perspective, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain in that regard. The way things have gone with reconstruction, this was always likely to end up in court.

“Hearts have two causes of action contractually. Regarding membership of the SPFL, it’s an agreement between the clubs and the body itself and the clubs are party to a contract with the SPFL and each other.

“If the SPFL, by omission or by failing to follow its own corporate framework in passing a written resolution, will be in breach of that contract. You need to take it back to the issue of Dundee’s ‘missing’ vote.

“As far as I can see, the original ‘no’ vote from Dundee [which opposed ending the season] should have stood. Their secretary, Eric Drysdale, confirmed that the vote had been sent and that it had been received: it wasn’t a bounce back.

“In company law, there is no obligation on any member to cast a negative vote. Generally, members will vote in favour of a resolution and, if they don’t reply, they’re not in favour.

“However, what had been invited in terms of this resolution was a submission by clubs as to whether they were for or against the motion to end the season. When Dundee voted no, that should have stood.

“I also think there was also a lack of information provided to the members on which to base their decisions, specifically the fact that money would need to be repaid to Sky for unfulfilled fixtures. You could argue as to whether or not that information was material but the financial implications for Hearts are catastrophic.”

Season 2020-21 will be the most compressed in the game’s history, with competitions being carried over from last season due to the Covid-19 crisis at one end and an early close to accommodate the displaced Euro 2020 finals at the other, and Winnie anticipates that state of affairs worsening.

“If I was advising Hearts, I would seek an interim interdict on the Premiership season starting, on the grounds that they should be involved in it. In fact, given that they announced their intention to take the SPFL to court immediately after their reconstruction plan was voted down on Monday, I suspect that they have already done so.

“That would provide the SPFL with a logistical nightmare when it comes to delivering a fixture list. Ideally, this case will be fast-tracked at the Court of Session — the window is narrowing so the ruling must be expedited. If not, it may drag on for months and, if the ruling is in Hearts’ favour, then the Premiership would need to be restarted with them in it, which could lead to chaos and more contractual trouble with the broadcasters.

“I would also seek compensation for being relegated when there was a mathematical possibility that Hearts could have survived. Even if that amounted to only half of their projected losses for next season, that is money that would be paid for by the other members.

“Factor in Partick Thistle’s parachute payment and you could be looking at the other 40 clubs each losing around £100,000. Celtic are the only ones who can afford that — this action has the potential to decimate Scottish football.

“The game isn’t meant to be played out in court and the judge shouldn’t be the referee. However this ends, no one will be happy and there will be a whole host of ill will directed at Hearts and Thistle.

“I have sympathy for the SPFL board, who were attempting to deal with a situation which was truly unprecedented. They have admitted to making mistakes but those procedural errors will provide Hearts with ammunition. It will still be difficult for them to succeed and, ultimately, there will be no winners.”
We must have some lawyers on Hibs net that can comment.

[greenpaper55]

That's all based on the ending of the season, you could argue about the Dundee vote but you cannot argue the fact that the clubs decided against a larger league.

[Since452]

50% of Championship clubs didn't want reconstruction. And one of those "for" votes was Hearts. Absolute pie in the sky. As for ending the season. Dundee voted yes. Doesn't matter why or how.

[Andy74]

We must have some lawyers on Hibs net that can comment.

David Winnie largely acts as an agent.

There's a lot of waffle in there and I don't think voting procedure is his area of speciality based on what he has said!

[KingPat4]

Still not seeing much on how FIFA can have a bearing. Let them have their millions in compensation, then kick them out of football.

[Waxy]

Surely the board could have used their “executive powers” anyway in ending the season early with average points? That might have been what would have happened if Dundee voted no.
There wasnt really any other way forward.

[tamig]

I wonder if their volume of evidence could possibly match their “Now thats what you call a” planning application for the Romanov stand. I can just imagine a team of clerks at the court wheeling the boxes of evidence in on their trolleys.

[Caversham Green]

I feel a bit sorry for Partick as I think the SPFL could have used a more advanced method of average points per game that took into account the games that each team still had left to play. If that would have made a difference to them I don’t know but we had plenty time on our hands so it’s something that could have been calculated.

Other than that though, if they didn’t want relegated they should have won more games, or put forward a proposal for a 12-12-10-10 league set up. The fact they never suggests they were just wanting to hang onto Hearts cost tails and presumably want them to front the legal challenge.

I did a quick exercise for the Premiership allocating average points per game to outstanding games. For example Hibs next game was against St Johnstone and our record against them was w1 d1 - 4 points from two games therefore we are awarded 2 points in respect of the outstanding game while Saints get half a point. Unsurprisingly we would have been in the top six and Hearts ended up around seven points adrift at the bottom. I also did it for Partick and Queen of the South and it turned out Partick would have avoided relegation. It was somewhat skewed because they had to play ICT twice and had beaten them in both previous games so they had an immediate 6 points.

The exercise didn't actually take that long either and I think it would have been a fairer approach, although not perfect.

[Caversham Green]

We must have some lawyers on Hibs net that can comment.

I think the point he makes about there being no obligation to cast a negative vote is important with regard to the Dundee vote.

A resolution seeks approval from the relevant percentage of members and as such it is not a 'yes' or 'no' question. That means that 'no' votes are just indications that you won't be supporting the proposal rather than stating that you are against it - a no vote and an abstention are effectively the same thing and a member who has done either can later decide to give his support within the given timeframe. To some extent there is no such thing as a no vote, only a withholding of support. That's why Dundee would have been able to change their vote even if it had been registered.

That's only my understanding of the mechanics of resolution votes and I'm not sure if I've explained it very clearly but I know what I mean.

[Pete]

Paid Member

1,588 posts
Location - Edinburgh
Posted 7 minutes ago
41 minutes ago, David McCaig said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/david-winnie-is-fearful-of-lasting-damage-as-relegated-pair-go-to-court-z0rkv5w2d


David Winnie, a Scottish Cup winner with St Mirren who also turned out for Aberdeen, Hearts and Dundee, knows the game but his legal eye sets him apart as member clubs prepare to take action against Scottish football.

Winnie, the head of sports law at Mayfair-based Charles Douglas Solicitors LLP, believes that the process of bringing Scottish football grinding to a halt may have already begun. The 53-year-old also warned that Hearts and Partick Thistle going down the judicial route could do irreparable damage to the Scottish game, both financially and by fomenting resentment which will take years to dissipate.

“When you look at sums of £6-7 million being bandied about as the cost to Hearts of not being in the top tier this season, I don’t think they had any other option but to do this,” he said.

“The cost of taking this action will be outweighed by the financial cost of demotion so, from their perspective, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain in that regard. The way things have gone with reconstruction, this was always likely to end up in court.

“Hearts have two causes of action contractually. Regarding membership of the SPFL, it’s an agreement between the clubs and the body itself and the clubs are party to a contract with the SPFL and each other.

“If the SPFL, by omission or by failing to follow its own corporate framework in passing a written resolution, will be in breach of that contract. You need to take it back to the issue of Dundee’s ‘missing’ vote.

“As far as I can see, the original ‘no’ vote from Dundee [which opposed ending the season] should have stood. Their secretary, Eric Drysdale, confirmed that the vote had been sent and that it had been received: it wasn’t a bounce back.

“In company law, there is no obligation on any member to cast a negative vote. Generally, members will vote in favour of a resolution and, if they don’t reply, they’re not in favour.

“However, what had been invited in terms of this resolution was a submission by clubs as to whether they were for or against the motion to end the season. When Dundee voted no, that should have stood.

“I also think there was also a lack of information provided to the members on which to base their decisions, specifically the fact that money would need to be repaid to Sky for unfulfilled fixtures. You could argue as to whether or not that information was material but the financial implications for Hearts are catastrophic.”

Season 2020-21 will be the most compressed in the game’s history, with competitions being carried over from last season due to the Covid-19 crisis at one end and an early close to accommodate the displaced Euro 2020 finals at the other, and Winnie anticipates that state of affairs worsening.

“If I was advising Hearts, I would seek an interim interdict on the Premiership season starting, on the grounds that they should be involved in it. In fact, given that they announced their intention to take the SPFL to court immediately after their reconstruction plan was voted down on Monday, I suspect that they have already done so.

“That would provide the SPFL with a logistical nightmare when it comes to delivering a fixture list. Ideally, this case will be fast-tracked at the Court of Session — the window is narrowing so the ruling must be expedited. If not, it may drag on for months and, if the ruling is in Hearts’ favour, then the Premiership would need to be restarted with them in it, which could lead to chaos and more contractual trouble with the broadcasters.

“I would also seek compensation for being relegated when there was a mathematical possibility that Hearts could have survived. Even if that amounted to only half of their projected losses for next season, that is money that would be paid for by the other members.

“Factor in Partick Thistle’s parachute payment and you could be looking at the other 40 clubs each losing around £100,000. Celtic are the only ones who can afford that — this action has the potential to decimate Scottish football.

“The game isn’t meant to be played out in court and the judge shouldn’t be the referee. However this ends, no one will be happy and there will be a whole host of ill will directed at Hearts and Thistle.

“I have sympathy for the SPFL board, who were attempting to deal with a situation which was truly unprecedented. They have admitted to making mistakes but those procedural errors will provide Hearts with ammunition. It will still be difficult for them to succeed and, ultimately, there will be no winners.”

So the exaggerated figures (being bandied about by Hearts) would result in each club losing £100000, of which only Celtic could afford?

So we're all going to be paying an equal share? Erm, I don't think so Mr figure of authority.

[James Stephen]

We must have some lawyers on Hibs net that can comment.

I'm not a lawyer, but the guy obviously knows what hes talking about - seems pretty fair and balanced, he sees some grounds for action (as do others obviously) but finishes by saying it will be tough to win.

So basically that lawyers can see both side of argument.

[CraigHibee]

so, when the spam farts lose their case who are they going to blame then?

[Spike Mandela]

Paid Member

1,588 posts
Location - Edinburgh
Posted 7 minutes ago
41 minutes ago, David McCaig said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/david-winnie-is-fearful-of-lasting-damage-as-relegated-pair-go-to-court-z0rkv5w2d


David Winnie, a Scottish Cup winner with St Mirren who also turned out for Aberdeen, Hearts and Dundee, knows the game but his legal eye sets him apart as member clubs prepare to take action against Scottish football.

Winnie, the head of sports law at Mayfair-based Charles Douglas Solicitors LLP, believes that the process of bringing Scottish football grinding to a halt may have already begun. The 53-year-old also warned that Hearts and Partick Thistle going down the judicial route could do irreparable damage to the Scottish game, both financially and by fomenting resentment which will take years to dissipate.

“When you look at sums of £6-7 million being bandied about as the cost to Hearts of not being in the top tier this season, I don’t think they had any other option but to do this,” he said.

“The cost of taking this action will be outweighed by the financial cost of demotion so, from their perspective, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain in that regard. The way things have gone with reconstruction, this was always likely to end up in court.

“Hearts have two causes of action contractually. Regarding membership of the SPFL, it’s an agreement between the clubs and the body itself and the clubs are party to a contract with the SPFL and each other.

“If the SPFL, by omission or by failing to follow its own corporate framework in passing a written resolution, will be in breach of that contract. You need to take it back to the issue of Dundee’s ‘missing’ vote.

“As far as I can see, the original ‘no’ vote from Dundee [which opposed ending the season] should have stood. Their secretary, Eric Drysdale, confirmed that the vote had been sent and that it had been received: it wasn’t a bounce back.

“In company law, there is no obligation on any member to cast a negative vote. Generally, members will vote in favour of a resolution and, if they don’t reply, they’re not in favour.

“However, what had been invited in terms of this resolution was a submission by clubs as to whether they were for or against the motion to end the season. When Dundee voted no, that should have stood.

“I also think there was also a lack of information provided to the members on which to base their decisions, specifically the fact that money would need to be repaid to Sky for unfulfilled fixtures. You could argue as to whether or not that information was material but the financial implications for Hearts are catastrophic.”

Season 2020-21 will be the most compressed in the game’s history, with competitions being carried over from last season due to the Covid-19 crisis at one end and an early close to accommodate the displaced Euro 2020 finals at the other, and Winnie anticipates that state of affairs worsening.

“If I was advising Hearts, I would seek an interim interdict on the Premiership season starting, on the grounds that they should be involved in it. In fact, given that they announced their intention to take the SPFL to court immediately after their reconstruction plan was voted down on Monday, I suspect that they have already done so.

“That would provide the SPFL with a logistical nightmare when it comes to delivering a fixture list. Ideally, this case will be fast-tracked at the Court of Session — the window is narrowing so the ruling must be expedited. If not, it may drag on for months and, if the ruling is in Hearts’ favour, then the Premiership would need to be restarted with them in it, which could lead to chaos and more contractual trouble with the broadcasters.

“I would also seek compensation for being relegated when there was a mathematical possibility that Hearts could have survived. Even if that amounted to only half of their projected losses for next season, that is money that would be paid for by the other members.

“Factor in Partick Thistle’s parachute payment and you could be looking at the other 40 clubs each losing around £100,000. Celtic are the only ones who can afford that — this action has the potential to decimate Scottish football.

“The game isn’t meant to be played out in court and the judge shouldn’t be the referee. However this ends, no one will be happy and there will be a whole host of ill will directed at Hearts and Thistle.

“I have sympathy for the SPFL board, who were attempting to deal with a situation which was truly unprecedented. They have admitted to making mistakes but those procedural errors will provide Hearts with ammunition. It will still be difficult for them to succeed and, ultimately, there will be no winners.”

I suspected this would all come down to the ‘Dundee vote’ debacle which looked from the outside looking in an exercise in complete incompetence.

If the SPFL don’t have that anlgle all neatly tidied up legally by now they could be in trouble.

[James Stephen]

I suspected this would all come down to the ‘Dundee vote’ debacle which looked from the outside looking in an exercise in complete incompetence.

If the SPFL don’t have that anlgle all neatly tidied up legally by now they could be in trouble.

Yeah, i always wondered how taking clubs to court for not coting a certain way could work, so this seems to make sense.

Is it a judicial review then (if its a matter of process)?

When do the papers become public?

[matty_f]

Deloitte reviewed that vote process and found it to be in order. As you say, worst case the vote is retaken. Doesn't help Hearts either way.

Was just about to post that - if they're after a judicial review of the vote, then the SPFL will be extremely confident of their position, having had it audited by Deloitte.

You'd expect the sports reporters to be flagging this as part of the reporting on the story, however you'd be disappointed.

[AltheHibby]

I suspected this would all come down to the ‘Dundee vote’ debacle which looked from the outside looking in an exercise in complete incompetence.

If the SPFL don’t have that anlgle all neatly tidied up legally by now they could be in trouble.

They have the independent review from the auditors to support their defence. Up against that, 'it's no fair, my conveyance said," will likely carry zero weight.

[Andy74]

I think the point he makes about there being no obligation to cast a negative vote is important with regard to the Dundee vote.

A resolution seeks approval from the relevant percentage of members and as such it is not a 'yes' or 'no' question. That means that 'no' votes are just indications that you won't be supporting the proposal rather than stating that you are against it - a no vote and an abstention are effectively the same thing and a member who has done either can later decide to give his support within the given timeframe. To some extent there is no such thing as a no vote, only a withholding of support. That's why Dundee would have been able to change their vote even if it had been registered.

That's only my understanding of the mechanics of resolution votes and I'm not sure if I've explained it very clearly but I know what I mean.

Seems to me that the procedural issue is about the only thing anyone can see as being a route to take action.

I don't see how anyone can put that together with huge compensation claims though. At worst the vote would be re-taken.

The yes/no thing here is also a nuance with written resolutions. You either support as you say, or you don't. Not positively supporting will be taken as a no. If you clearly state your agreement in the right format then that can't be revoked. If you never agreed, including saying no, then up until the closure (28 days) you can still then agree.

I don't agree with him that there was a yes and no option and that the no should be taken as final. This isn't the case with the written resolution.

[matty_f]

We must have some lawyers on Hibs net that can comment.

Not a lawyer in any way, shape, or form, but my opinion on this is that Hearts' claim for losses is exaggerated and does not take into account the loss of revenue that they'd suffer anyway on account of there being no crowds at football for the immediate future.

The vote has been audited, it could come down to opinion but there was a record of the vote not being received in the inbox and (as far as I know) a member is able to change their 'no' vote to a 'yes' but not vice versa.

With respect to ending the season, again the issue of owing Sky and BT potential compensation would have happened irrespective of the vote - it was impossible to fulfill the fixtures as agreed with the broadcasters, so any potential liability was a moot point in deciding to call the league.

The counters to the arguments put forward have been expressed by legal-minded people (Doncaster, Donald Findlay) so while I think there is a case, I also think that there's a good counter, and I wouldn't bet on Hearts winning their legal battle.

[ancient hibee]

The Scottish courts have never rushed to assess large financial awards in damages cases and will certainly want well audited figures should Hearts eventually win a case in a few years time.

[RoYO!]

I dont buy the argument of nothing to lose as they were losing money being relegated anyway....

Erm... they have the legal costs to lose *on top* of the losses accrued thru relegation. Not to mention the Ill will brewing against them.

Oh add in to the fact that sanctions could well be taken against them... I'd say there's a fair bit to lose...

[Slope]

I work in the legal profession. For what it’s worth the office deliberations in the practice, conducted over coffee and involving 2 QCs concluded that there was a high probability that Partick and Hearts would have some court room success. This of course was based on the publicly known elements of the case only. The view was that an ‘interim’ interdict was quite likely to be successful if only to buy time for a fuller examination of the issues. If the relegation is allowed to stand then damages were thought to be a near certainty. Not what I particularly wanted to hear but brace yourselves.

[Numptie]

Not a lawyer in any way, shape, or form, but my opinion on this is that Hearts' claim for losses is exaggerated and does not take into account the loss of revenue that they'd suffer anyway on account of there being no crowds at football for the immediate future.

The vote has been audited, it could come down to opinion but there was a record of the vote not being received in the inbox and (as far as I know) a member is able to change their 'no' vote to a 'yes' but not vice versa.

With respect to ending the season, again the issue of owing Sky and BT potential compensation would have happened irrespective of the vote - it was impossible to fulfill the fixtures as agreed with the broadcasters, so any potential liability was a moot point in deciding to call the league.

The counters to the arguments put forward have been expressed by legal-minded people (Doncaster, Donald Findlay) so while I think there is a case, I also think that there's a good counter, and I wouldn't bet on Hearts winning their legal battle.

It's not just that Dundee had a right (under company law) to change their no to a yes, it's that the vote didn't close at 5pm on that day, they had just asked for votes by that time. Dundee had the right to take up to the 28 days to decide and took their time to change their mind.

[weecounty hibby]

So what's to stop Celtic suing hearts for loss of income if they can't compete in Europe come the start if next season. Something like 10m for reaching CL groups and about 1m per game in income?

[Andy74]

I work in the legal profession. For what it’s worth the office deliberations in the practice, conducted over coffee and involving 2 QCs concluded that there was a high probability that Partick and Hearts would have some court room success. This of course was based on the publicly known elements of the case only. The view was that an ‘interim’ interdict was quite likely to be successful if only to buy time for a fuller examination of the issues. If the relegation is allowed to stand then damages were thought to be a near certainty. Not what I particularly wanted to hear but brace yourselves.

Publicly know elements of the case? Such as...?

[Since452]

I work in the legal profession. For what it’s worth the office deliberations in the practice, conducted over coffee and involving 2 QCs concluded that there was a high probability that Partick and Hearts would have some court room success. This of course was based on the publicly known elements of the case only. The view was that an ‘interim’ interdict was quite likely to be successful if only to buy time for a fuller examination of the issues. If the relegation is allowed to stand then damages were thought to be a near certainty. Not what I particularly wanted to hear but brace yourselves.

Good luck to them. They'll still be lower league teams once it's all done and dusted.

[Waxy]

I work in the legal profession. For what it’s worth the office deliberations in the practice, conducted over coffee and involving 2 QCs concluded that there was a high probability that Partick and Hearts would have some court room success. This of course was based on the publicly known elements of the case only. The view was that an ‘interim’ interdict was quite likely to be successful if only to buy time for a fuller examination of the issues. If the relegation is allowed to stand then damages were thought to be a near certainty. Not what I particularly wanted to hear but brace yourselves.
If clubs can overturn a democratic vote because they dont like the outcome, it isnt a truly democratic vote. Whats the point in ever voting on anything?

[Keith_M]

I work in the legal profession. For what it’s worth the office deliberations in the practice, conducted over coffee and involving 2 QCs concluded that there was a high probability that Partick and Hearts would have some court room success. This of course was based on the publicly known elements of the case only. The view was that an ‘interim’ interdict was quite likely to be successful if only to buy time for a fuller examination of the issues. If the relegation is allowed to stand then damages were thought to be a near certainty. Not what I particularly wanted to hear but brace yourselves.



http://www.quickmeme.com/img/c4/c43c8f9aad9b30ac89ad675036409c670ee9234da339f333cb 94a57cd3bc3a10.jpg

[Ozyhibby]

Yeah, i always wondered how taking clubs to court for not coting a certain way could work, so this seems to make sense.

Is it a judicial review then (if its a matter of process)?

When do the papers become public?

Think judicial review is only for public bodies? Spfl is a private company I think.


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[matty_f]

Publicly know elements of the case? Such as...?

There can't be much- we don't even know what they're claim is yet.

[Andy74]

It's not just that Dundee had a right (under company law) to change their no to a yes, it's that the vote didn't close at 5pm on that day, they had just asked for votes by that time. Dundee had the right to take up to the 28 days to decide and took their time to change their mind.

If they’d agreed to the resolution it couldn’t have been revoked. The closing date is relevant only in that they can change their no or lack of support within that time. A yes would have been final.

[Andy74]

Think judicial review is only for public bodies? Spfl is a private company I think.


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Not in Scotland, it can go to JR.

[matty_f]

If clubs can overturn a democratic vote because they dont like the outcome, it isnt a truly democratic vote. Whats the point in ever voting on anything?

How else would we get to string their relegation out to over a month? :greengrin

[James Stephen]

Think judicial review is only for public bodies? Spfl is a private company I think.


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I dont know, like I say im not a lawyer!

Im just curious to read the complaint once its been lodged, i dont claim any knowledge or insight 😁

[Hibs90]

I work in the legal profession. For what it’s worth the office deliberations in the practice, conducted over coffee and involving 2 QCs concluded that there was a high probability that Partick and Hearts would have some court room success. This of course was based on the publicly known elements of the case only. The view was that an ‘interim’ interdict was quite likely to be successful if only to buy time for a fuller examination of the issues. If the relegation is allowed to stand then damages were thought to be a near certainty. Not what I particularly wanted to hear but brace yourselves.

Good one. Enjoy the Championship.

[Victor]

The 12 clubs currently in the top league should resign from the SPFL, form a new league called The Ultra League, or whatever and do a deal with Sky to televise their matches. I am sure Sky will be able to wriggle out of their current contract as the product they wanted no longer exists. This will leave Hearts in the SPFL with the other 30 and they can organise leagues and sue who they want. Simple!


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[green day]

I work in the legal profession. For what it’s worth the office deliberations in the practice, conducted over coffee and involving 2 QCs concluded that there was a high probability that Partick and Hearts would have some court room success. This of course was based on the publicly known elements of the case only. The view was that an ‘interim’ interdict was quite likely to be successful if only to buy time for a fuller examination of the issues. If the relegation is allowed to stand then damages were thought to be a near certainty. Not what I particularly wanted to hear but brace yourselves.

Buy time for a fuller examination of issues?

This has been discussed for 3 months already and Budge already - apparently - had QC advice.

The Premiership doesnt kick off until August, which will be 4.5 months since it all started and minimum 3 since she kicked off the legal advice................

[RoYO!]

It's been a while since anyone mentioned the actual fact (i.e not hibs.net FACT) that the spfl can decide at any moment to call a season. Hearts signed up to this and its exactly what the spfl voted to do.

[Slope]

Publicly know elements of the case? Such as...?

Notwithstanding the known elements of the outcome of the various SPFL votes on competition rule changes, ending the season and deciding against reorganisation, the discussion ended up focusing largely around the duty of care owed by the SPFL members to both the league and to each other. We had no inside knowledge whatsoever on what will be represented in any legal move. Purely speculation, but it was an interesting 15 minutes.

[matty_f]

It's been a while since anyone mentioned the actual fact (i.e not hibs.net FACT) that the spfl can decide at any moment to call a season. Hearts signed up to this and its exactly what the spfl voted to do.

I think it needs to be remembered that the SPFL's own lawyers will have been giving guidance throughout the process, well aware that their actions would likely be challenged in court.

Despite Tom English's repeated attempts to paint them to the contrary, they're not idiots.

[Since452]

I think it needs to be remembered that the SPFL's own lawyers will have been giving guidance throughout the process, well aware that their actions would likely be challenged in court.

Despite Tom English's repeated attempts to paint them to the contrary, they're not idiots.

Either is Doncaster who himself is a qualified solicitor

[Slope]

Good one. Enjoy the Championship.

Wrong assumption. I’ve been a Hibs ST holder for almost 30 years. I rarely post and was especially hesitant to do so on this occasion as I knew I ran the risk of being maligned, but hey ho!

[Brightside]

I work in the legal profession. For what it’s worth the office deliberations in the practice, conducted over coffee and involving 2 QCs concluded that there was a high probability that Partick and Hearts would have some court room success. This of course was based on the publicly known elements of the case only. The view was that an ‘interim’ interdict was quite likely to be successful if only to buy time for a fuller examination of the issues. If the relegation is allowed to stand then damages were thought to be a near certainty. Not what I particularly wanted to hear but brace yourselves.

Hahaha Aye right. :wink:

[jacomo]

Notwithstanding the known elements of the outcome of the various SPFL votes on competition rule changes, ending the season and deciding against reorganisation, the discussion ended up focusing largely around the duty of care owed by the SPFL members to both the league and to each other. We had no inside knowledge whatsoever on what will be represented in any legal move. Purely speculation, but it was an interesting 15 minutes.


Duty of care also extends to the 12 top flight clubs not to impose a totally rubbish 14 team format on them, no?

[Irish_Steve]

Well, looks like it`s all going to kick off, according to Brokeback:

brunoatemyhamster
HONESTALWAYSHONEST
brunoatemyhamster
Registered Users D

2,047 posts
Location - Easterroadtrophycabinet
Report post
Posted 25 minutes ago
The Hearts/partick petition lands in the next hour folks.

[Andy74]

Notwithstanding the known elements of the outcome of the various SPFL votes on competition rule changes, ending the season and deciding against reorganisation, the discussion ended up focusing largely around the duty of care owed by the SPFL members to both the league and to each other. We had no inside knowledge whatsoever on what will be represented in any legal move. Purely speculation, but it was an interesting 15 minutes.

None of that has anything to do with publicly known aspects of the case. We have no idea what the case is going to be based on.

Procedure? Duty of care? Unfairness?

We've heard talk of all those things but nothing that come all that close to adding up to a case never mind one that has a chance of winning.

[Slope]

I think it needs to be remembered that the SPFL's own lawyers will have been giving guidance throughout the process, well aware that their actions would likely be challenged in court.

Despite Tom English's repeated attempts to paint them to the contrary, they're not idiots.

It also needs to be remembered that any legal advice shared with the member clubs before the various votes will of necessity been shared with Partick and Hearts

[northgreen24]

Could you imagine the blow back lF hearts stopped the OF in Europe .......it was poor hearts in the media but the Glasgow press would to go to town and this would Could ruin them, thy would go grazy

It was democracy that are in the rules like any private golf club. It’s like getting band then getting the police involved ok you might get back in but imagine your reputation when you turn up

[Hibs90]

Wrong assumption. I’ve been a Hibs ST holder for almost 30 years. I rarely post and was especially hesitant to do so on this occasion as I knew I ran the risk of being maligned, but hey ho!

You've been a member since May 2014. Also happened to be the month we lost the Hamilton play-off.

I heard Alloa has some good pies.

[mal]

It also needs to be remembered that any legal advice shared with the member clubs before the various votes will of necessity been shared with Partick and Hearts

If you get the chance, please can you ask what the legal position would be regarding Hearts' attempt to represent 3rd-party charitable donations as the club's own contribution which would be granted or withheld according to whether the reconstruction vote came out in their favour? I'm continually surprised that more isn't made out of this.

[Irish_Steve]

You've been a member since May 2014. Also happened to be the month we lost the Hamilton play-off.

I heard Alloa has some good pies.

Whereas we`ll be having Killie pies - we are even getting tastier pies lol

[CropleyWasGod]

I work in the legal profession. For what it’s worth the office deliberations in the practice, conducted over coffee and involving 2 QCs concluded that there was a high probability that Partick and Hearts would have some court room success. This of course was based on the publicly known elements of the case only. The view was that an ‘interim’ interdict was quite likely to be successful if only to buy time for a fuller examination of the issues. If the relegation is allowed to stand then damages were thought to be a near certainty. Not what I particularly wanted to hear but brace yourselves.

An interdict would not be about "buying time" IMO. It would be about putting a gun to the heads of the SPFL and saying "give us cash". That's all Hearts want out of this.

[Caversham Green]

It also needs to be remembered that any legal advice shared with the member clubs before the various votes will of necessity been shared with Partick and Hearts

And Cowdenbeath.

I wonder if Donald Findlay is getting suited and booted for this fight - he'll already be fully briefed and there's no conflict of interest in representing the SPFL. He might even do it pro-bono for a few loan players from clubs other than Hearts.

[Gloucester Hibs]

Wrong assumption. I’ve been a Hibs ST holder for almost 30 years. I rarely post and was especially hesitant to do so on this occasion as I knew I ran the risk of being maligned, but hey ho!

Sure if I look back over your posting history I’ll see at least a few congratulatory posts on derby wins, and surely on our 2016 SC triumph.... right? 🤔🕵🏻*♂️ LTYF

[CropleyWasGod]

And Cowdenbeath.

I wonder if Donald Findlay is getting suited and booted for this fight - he'll already be fully briefed and there's no conflict of interest in representing the SPFL. He might even do it pro-bono for a few loan players from clubs other than Hearts.

He could do it on Zoom from his pile..... with no boots (or trousers) on.

There's an image :greengrin

[Caversham Green]

He could do it on Zoom from his pile..... with no boots (or trousers) on.

There's an image :greengrin

An image I can't unsee even though I haven't actually seen it.

[Rumble de Thump]

The SPFL's duty of care doesn't stretch to promoting teams simply because they've earned relegation and aren't happy about it. However you look at it, Hearts don't have a leg to stand on.

[Since452]

The SPFL's duty of care doesn't stretch to promoting teams simply because they've earned relegation and aren't happy about it. However you look at it, Hearts don't have a leg to stand on.

Exactly. There had to be winners and losers and the losers are throwing the toys out the pram. Nothing more. Bottom line is they weren't good enough on the park.

[roo62]

How rich is Anderson? See he's donated 250k to womens football as well.

He will be mega rich. Currently involved with some of the best performing Baillie Gifford funds. One fund is worth over 3.5 billion and growth rates of 40%+ this year. He has enjoyed a very successful few years so this is pocket money to him.

[HoboHarry]

He could do it on Zoom from his pile..... with no boots (or trousers) on.

There's an image :greengrin
Findlay or the pet lodge goat? Or both?

[Ozyhibby]

Doesn’t Findlay deal more with criminal cases? Unless they want Doncaster thrown in jail?


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[Danderhall Hibs]

He will be mega rich. Currently involved with some of the best performing Baillie Gifford funds. One fund is worth over 3.5 billion and growth rates of 40%+ this year. He has enjoyed a very successful few years so this is pocket money to him.

He just manages the fund for others though - that’s not his cash.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Doesn’t Findlay deal more with criminal cases? Unless they want Doncaster thrown in jail?


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:agree: Generally deals with getting murderers away with it. I think you go to him if you’re minted and guilty.

[flash]

We can all sit here and state whether it's fair or not in our eyes but this will simply be decided on a legal basis.
Hertz may very well win.

[matty_f]

We can all sit here and state whether it's fair or not in our eyes but this will simply be decided on a legal basis.
Hertz may very well win.

Or lose, on a legal basis.

It's fine to speculate and discuss in the meantime, though.

[Andy74]

Or lose, on a legal basis.

It's fine to speculate and discuss in the meantime, though.

Indeed. I'm yet to hear any angle that might put them into the 'may well win' category though.

[Irish_Steve]

An interdict would not be about "buying time" IMO. It would be about putting a gun to the heads of the SPFL and saying "give us cash". That's all Hearts want out of this.

Apparently there is not going to be an interdict "launched" today as the Jambos like to say. That`s coming from the same person on Keekback and a fair few of them are a tad upset!

[roo62]

He just manages the fund for others though - that’s not his cash.


Agreed but managing a fund of that size and that growth will earn him a huge remuneration for his performance.

[Irish_Steve]

Yip, he has more money than all of us put together!

[Bostonhibby]

Yip, he has more money than all of us put together!So did Vladimir Romanov and that ended well.

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[007]

I work in the legal profession. For what it’s worth the office deliberations in the practice, conducted over coffee and involving 2 QCs concluded that there was a high probability that Partick and Hearts would have some court room success. This of course was based on the publicly known elements of the case only. The view was that an ‘interim’ interdict was quite likely to be successful if only to buy time for a fuller examination of the issues. If the relegation is allowed to stand then damages were thought to be a near certainty. Not what I particularly wanted to hear but brace yourselves.

What is the office view that if Hearts are granted an interim interdict then they'd also have to put up adequate security to cover any losses they cause by blocking the league from starting, if they then lose the case?

[Keith_M]

:agree: Generally deals with getting murderers away with it. I think you go to him if you’re minted and guilty.


Or if you've murdered an innocent teenager purely because he walked past you wearing a Celtc scarf.

I heard he's the 'go to guy' for murderous bigots.

[Waxy]

We can all sit here and state whether it's fair or not in our eyes but this will simply be decided on a legal basis.
Hertz may very well win.

On what grounds do you think they have a case?

[flash]

On what grounds do you think they have a case?

I don't. I have no legal knowledge at all. That was kind of my point.

[flash]

Or lose, on a legal basis.

It's fine to speculate and discuss in the meantime, though.

Of course it is. That's what I am doing too.

[matty_f]

On what grounds do you think they have a case?

They must have a chance of winning, otherwise their own lawyers would be telling them not to bother.

Even the no win, no fee compensation vulture lawyers won't take the case if it's not anything better than a 50/50 chance of winning.

Every claimant believes they have a case, though - they don't all win!

[matty_f]

Of course it is. That's what I am doing too.

:aok: we're better for it.

[HoboHarry]

They must have a chance of winning, otherwise their own lawyers would be telling them not to bother.

Even the no win, no fee compensation vulture lawyers won't take the case if it's not anything better than a 50/50 chance of winning.

Every claimant believes they have a case, though - they don't all win!
Lawyers are notorious for moving things forward, there's no money to be made by telling them not to bother......

[Caversham Green]

Doesn’t Findlay deal more with criminal cases? Unless they want Doncaster thrown in jail?


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Yep, my comment was a bit tongue in cheek. I reckon he will be a useful ally for the SPFL though.


Apparently there is not going to be an interdict "launched" today as the Jambos like to say. That`s coming from the same person on Keekback and a fair few of them are a tad upset!

If true that tells us it's all about compensation. I still think an out of court settlement is the most likely outcome.

I'm not convinced a law court would have the power to order any sort of reconstruction or null and void in any case. Reinstate Hearts in the top league at the expense of Dundee United possibly.

[bawheid]

It also needs to be remembered that any legal advice shared with the member clubs before the various votes will of necessity been shared with Partick and Hearts

Hi Slope, what was the office view on that time Paul Hanlon equalised in injury time and Hibs went on to win the Scottish Cup?

[oldbutdim]

A top legal expert on football* gave the following quote to the media not too long ago:

"Hearts could, in theory, seek an interdict which is the Scottish equivalent of an injunction, to prevent football being played if Hearts were excluded. I can't see a court granting it....."







*When I said football, I Mean in the sense of being an estate agent.

[Skol]

Yep, my comment was a bit tongue in cheek. I reckon he will be a useful ally for the SPFL though.



If true that tells us it's all about compensation. I still think an out of court settlement is the most likely outcome.

I'm not convinced a law court would have the power to order any sort of reconstruction or null and void in any case. Reinstate Hearts in the top league at the expense of Dundee United possibly.

Reinstate hearts would just lead to united launching their own challenge.

This is a real mess now.

[James Stephen]

Reinstate hearts would just lead to united launching their own challenge.

This is a real mess now.

Imagine Utd's reaction to that!!!

[Jim44]

Yep, my comment was a bit tongue in cheek. I reckon he will be a useful ally for the SPFL though.



If true that tells us it's all about compensation. I still think an out of court settlement is the most likely outcome.

I'm not convinced a law court would have the power to order any sort of reconstruction or null and void in any case. Reinstate Hearts in the top league at the expense of Dundee United possibly.

Will Hearts have to present exactly what they are seeking from the action? I assume they can’t say ‘we are suing for reconstruction, if not we’ll settle for null and void but there again we’ll take reinstatement if it’s available.

[mal]

Let's face it, the Sevco "no sporting advantage" ruling indicates that anything can happen.

[Caversham Green]

Reinstate hearts would just lead to united launching their own challenge.

This is a real mess now.

Indeed. I don't think the court would do that though, I'm just saying what I think their powers would be limited to. Generally its a case of putting the plaintiff (English law) in the position they were in before the event took place. That of course was bottom of the Premiership and staring relegation in the face. I hasten to add I'm not a lawyer and it's a very long time since studied any sort of law.

As a layman my money is on an out of court settlement that will leave both sides of the argument disappointed. Us because they don't deserve a penny, them because it won't anything like the numbers they've been talking about.