Little Britain banned

[lord bunberry]

I see that little Britain has been taken down by the BBC and Netflix. I always thought that they poked fun at this countries prejudices. Is this an example of things going too far?

[CropleyWasGod]

I see that little Britain has been taken down by the BBC and Netflix. I always thought that they poked fun at this countries prejudices. Is this an example of things going too far?

TBF, Walliams and Lucas have both said in the recent past that they wouldn't have made that same programme nowadays.

[lord bunberry]

TBF, Walliams and Lucas have both said in the recent past that they wouldn't have made that same programme nowadays.
Fair enough, but I always thought it was a laughing at ourselves type program.

[DH1875]

Have they banned their show set in the airport as well? What about shows like Ali G and Bo selecta, they banned too? Then there's films like Traiding Places.....

[SteveHFC]

I see that little Britain has been taken down by the BBC and Netflix. I always thought that they poked fun at this countries prejudices. Is this an example of things going too far?

It is indeed.

Just waiting for the likes of South Park and Family Guy being cancelled soon enough.

[Pretty Boy]

I remember there was a bit of a furore when Friends first appeared on Netflix surrounding homophobia. I didn't get that then and I'm not sure I get the decision to remove Little Britain now. Little Britain, and Friends, haven't been locked in a Vault for decades and only recently rediscovered. They have been in full view, and thus open to critique, since they first appeared.

I think when you go down the road of censoring the arts, comedy and the like you enter dangerous territory. There needs to be an acceptance that everything is a product of it's time. Would Little Britain be the same if it was made today? I think that is highly doubtful, the world has moved on. I don't think that means we have to erase it from the archives though; it was what it was and it doesn't exclusively attack any single group, arguably the biggest target is those who hold ingrained prejudices. I think it was meant to be surrealist and of course elements of it do seem problematic now but why can't we have a proper conversation about that rather than simply hiding it from view?

I think the best comedy (not an accolade I would personally award Little Britain) can tread a fine line. Someone like Frankie Boyle is often labelled 'offensive' but he is actually hugely skilled at his craft and his routines are often beautifully nuanced. He's challenging and I would prefer to be challenged than surrounded by a safe space that is tailored to my own sensibilities.

I would argue there has to sometimes be an acceptance that a joke is a joke. Of course there should be condemnation when there is an inherent nastiness behind it but there can't be a situation in which comedians, artists, authors and the like feel stifled and unable to push boundaries. The beauty of freedom of speech and freedom of expression is that it comes with responsibility. People have the right to present us with their work and we have the right to challenge it and critique both in the moment and with hindsight. What do we learn by simply disappearing something that no longer fits the accepted world view?

[lord bunberry]

It is indeed.
That’s what I think, I’d like to think that Matt Lucas and David Walliams are two of the most switched on guys when it comes to racism.

[Sir David Gray]

Little Britain isn't something I ever watched too much so it doesn't really make any odds to me but where do we stop? There's lines in Only Fools and Horses (in my opinion the greatest comedy ever produced) that wouldn't be allowed nowadays, do we ban that too?

A lot of Fawlty Towers is another classic that probably wouldn't be allowed to be produced today either.

I'm really not in favour of censoring programmes like this. They had their place in time and people should be allowed to make their own minds up as to whether or not they want to watch them or not.

[lord bunberry]

I remember there was a bit of a furore when Friends first appeared on Netflix surrounding homophobia. I didn't get that then and I'm not sure I get the decision to remove Little Britain now. Little Britain, and Friends, haven't been locked in a Vault for decades and only recently rediscovered. They have been in full view, and thus open to critique, since they first appeared.

I think when you go down the road of censoring the arts, comedy and the like you enter dangerous territory. There needs to be an acceptance that everything is a product of it's time. Would Little Britain be the same if it was made today? I think that is highly doubtful, the world has moved on. I don't think that means we have to erase it from the archives though; it was what it was and it doesn't exclusively attack any single group, arguably the biggest target is those who hold ingrained prejudices. I think it was meant to be surrealist and of course elements of it do seem problematic now but why can't we have a proper conversation about that rather than simply hiding it from view?

I think the best comedy (not an accolade I would personally award Little Britain) can tread a fine line. Someone like Frankie Boyle is often labelled 'offensive' but he is actually hugely skilled at his craft and his routines are often beautifully nuanced. He's challenging and I would prefer to be challenged than surrounded by a safe space that is tailored to my own sensibilities.

I would argue there has to sometimes be an acceptance that a joke is a joke. Of course there should be condemnation when there is an inherent nastiness behind it but there can't be a situation in which comedians, artists, authors and the like feel stifled and unable to push boundaries. The beauty of freedom of speech and freedom of expression is that it comes with responsibility. People have the right to present us with their work and we have the right to challenge it and critique both in the moment and with hindsight. What do we learn by simply disappearing something that no longer fits the accepted world view?
I couldn’t agree more, you can isolate a joke or sketch from a comedian and turn it to something that it wasn’t intended to be. When you look at little Britain it was meant to be a comedy reflection of Britain, that included racism. It was racism presented as comedy in the same way that every other sketch was done in that show. It was poking fun at prejudices.

[Hibrandenburg]

I remember there was a bit of a furore when Friends first appeared on Netflix surrounding homophobia. I didn't get that then and I'm not sure I get the decision to remove Little Britain now. Little Britain, and Friends, haven't been locked in a Vault for decades and only recently rediscovered. They have been in full view, and thus open to critique, since they first appeared.

I think when you go down the road of censoring the arts, comedy and the like you enter dangerous territory. There needs to be an acceptance that everything is a product of it's time. Would Little Britain be the same if it was made today? I think that is highly doubtful, the world has moved on. I don't think that means we have to erase it from the archives though; it was what it was and it doesn't exclusively attack any single group, arguably the biggest target is those who hold ingrained prejudices. I think it was meant to be surrealist and of course elements of it do seem problematic now but why can't we have a proper conversation about that rather than simply hiding it from view?

I think the best comedy (not an accolade I would personally award Little Britain) can tread a fine line. Someone like Frankie Boyle is often labelled 'offensive' but he is actually hugely skilled at his craft and his routines are often beautifully nuanced. He's challenging and I would prefer to be challenged than surrounded by a safe space that is tailored to my own sensibilities.

I would argue there has to sometimes be an acceptance that a joke is a joke. Of course there should be condemnation when there is an inherent nastiness behind it but there can't be a situation in which comedians, artists, authors and the like feel stifled and unable to push boundaries. The beauty of freedom of speech and freedom of expression is that it comes with responsibility. People have the right to present us with their work and we have the right to challenge it and critique both in the moment and with hindsight. What do we learn by simply disappearing something that no longer fits the accepted world view?

Great post.

[SteveHFC]

I remember there was a bit of a furore when Friends first appeared on Netflix surrounding homophobia. I didn't get that then and I'm not sure I get the decision to remove Little Britain now. Little Britain, and Friends, haven't been locked in a Vault for decades and only recently rediscovered. They have been in full view, and thus open to critique, since they first appeared.

I think when you go down the road of censoring the arts, comedy and the like you enter dangerous territory. There needs to be an acceptance that everything is a product of it's time. Would Little Britain be the same if it was made today? I think that is highly doubtful, the world has moved on. I don't think that means we have to erase it from the archives though; it was what it was and it doesn't exclusively attack any single group, arguably the biggest target is those who hold ingrained prejudices. I think it was meant to be surrealist and of course elements of it do seem problematic now but why can't we have a proper conversation about that rather than simply hiding it from view?

I think the best comedy (not an accolade I would personally award Little Britain) can tread a fine line. Someone like Frankie Boyle is often labelled 'offensive' but he is actually hugely skilled at his craft and his routines are often beautifully nuanced. He's challenging and I would prefer to be challenged than surrounded by a safe space that is tailored to my own sensibilities.

I would argue there has to sometimes be an acceptance that a joke is a joke. Of course there should be condemnation when there is an inherent nastiness behind it but there can't be a situation in which comedians, artists, authors and the like feel stifled and unable to push boundaries. The beauty of freedom of speech and freedom of expression is that it comes with responsibility. People have the right to present us with theirwork and we have the right to challenge it and critique both in the moment and with hindsight. What do we learn by simply disappearing something that no longer fits the accepted world view?

:not worth

[lord bunberry]

Little Britain isn't something I ever watched too much so it doesn't really make any odds to me but where do we stop? There's lines in Only Fools and Horses (in my opinion the greatest comedy ever produced) that wouldn't be allowed nowadays, do we ban that too?

A lot of Fawlty Towers is another classic that probably wouldn't be allowed to be produced today either.

I'm really not in favour of censoring programmes like this. They had their place in time and people should be allowed to make their own minds up as to whether or not they want to watch them or not.
I agree with what your saying. But I don’t think Little Britain was one of those shows. It should t be judged by time or modern standards as it was making fun of modern times.

[Mon Dieu4]

Think I've mentioned it before, I watched an episode of Allo Allo a year or so ago and before it started there was a disclaimer that it included humour that might not be deemed as acceptable today

People were going nuts on Twitter the other day about Ali G as well, the satire of it clearly went over their heads

[Andy74]

I don’t like Keith Lemon at the best of times but his apology was ridiculous.

This is not racism and is not where we should be focusing on.

His thing included both black and white celebrities being sent up. It is very dangerous ground when you’re saying that people of a particular race can never be the subject of any joke. In fact, that is treating people differently due to their race.

[Pretty Boy]

Think I've mentioned it before, I watched an episode of Allo Allo a year or so ago and before it started there was a disclaimer that it included humour that might not be deemed as acceptable today

People were going nuts on Twitter the other day about Ali G as well, the satire of it clearly went over their heads

I think a few Disney films now have warnings about 'cultural references' at the start. The 1940s version of Dumbo certainly does. As far as compromises go that seems a sensible one.

[hibsbollah]

I think a few Disney films now have warnings about 'cultural references' at the start. The 1940s version of Dumbo certainly does. As far as compromises go that seems a sensible one.

Dumbo? I’m trying to think of the problematic cultural references. Drunk and halucinating elephants?

[Mon Dieu4]

I think a few Disney films now have warnings about 'cultural references' at the start. The 1940s version of Dumbo certainly does. As far as compromises go that seems a sensible one.

Think they've taken out the Jim Crow part altogether and will also never show Song of the South ever again

[Mon Dieu4]

Dumbo? I’m trying to think of the problematic cultural references. Drunk and halucinating elephants?

One of the crows was originally called Jim Crow and are seen as racist stereotypes

[Sir David Gray]

I think a few Disney films now have warnings about 'cultural references' at the start. The 1940s version of Dumbo certainly does. As far as compromises go that seems a sensible one.

Yes I agree that seems a reasonable step to take. There's certain warnings given before films and then it's up to the individual if they wish to watch it or not.

The same should apply to TV shows rather than just banning them altogether. Let people have the choice.

[Andy74]

I think a few Disney films now have warnings about 'cultural references' at the start. The 1940s version of Dumbo certainly does. As far as compromises go that seems a sensible one.

Peter Pan isn’t the best.

[hibsbollah]

One of the crows was originally called Jim Crow and are seen as racist stereotypes

I’m remembering that now.

[Mon Dieu4]

Peter Pan isn’t the best.

The aristocats doesn't exactly cover itself in glory either :greengrin

[G B Young]

Peter Pan isn’t the best.

It's one of the 'best' Disney cartoon movies ever made but yes the 'Red Indian' characters are no longer PC. As has been mentioned though there's now a 'cultural references' warning at the start of these older films.

But where does this all lead? Does J M Barrie's original book now come under the microscope? Considering he donated all the royalties to Great Ormond St Children's Hospital you'd hope not.

As an aside, I was thinking as I was typing it that Great Ormond Street was another fine 'Hibs' street name, but I just checked and rather than being named after Willie it was named in honour of Charles I's viceroy in Ireland...got to imagine that could be another controversial choice by today's standards.

[EH6 Hibby]

I don’t see how the likes of Little Britain can be seen as acceptable, when if another celebrity or politician was caught with black face, they would be slaughtered.

[Mibbes Aye]

When I was at school, a wee while back now, one of our English texts was Shakespeare’s ‘The Merchant of Venice’. I found it appalling in my teenage self-righteousness, anti-Semitic and pretty horrible in how Shylock was treated.

As I have gotten older and revisited the text and seen interpretations of it on the stage, I appreciate there is more nuance. One can argue that Shakespeare was making more subtle points about discrimination and not merely parodying or stereotyping, and also mocking the Christians as shallow and virtueless. Or one can argue that it is just anti-Jewish tropes brought to life in a play. And there was no shortage of anti-Judaism in the sixteenth century.

It is a difficult one. Unfortunately, apart from that element it makes for a damn fine play. Would I go to the theatre to see it again? Yes, but I don’t know how comfortable I would feel leaving afterwards. A lot would depend on how it was directed and staged.

[CropleyWasGod]

When I was at school, a wee while back now, one of our English texts was Shakespeare’s ‘The Merchant of Venice’. I found it appalling in my teenage self-righteousness, anti-Semitic and pretty horrible in how Shylock was treated.

As I have gotten older and revisited the text and seen interpretations of it on the stage, I appreciate there is more nuance. One can argue that Shakespeare was making more subtle points about discrimination and not merely parodying or stereotyping, and also mocking the Christians as shallow and virtueless. Or one can argue that it is just anti-Jewish tropes brought to life in a play. And there was no shortage of anti-Judaism in the sixteenth century.

It is a difficult one. Unfortunately, apart from that element it makes for a damn fine play. Would I go to the theatre to see it again? Yes, but I don’t know how comfortable I would feel leaving afterwards. A lot would depend on how it was directed and staged.

I read that recently,albeit through the interpretation of Charles and Mary Lamb. Their version did seem anti-Semitic. I did wonder whether that reflected attitudes of the time, but without Bill Shakes input,we can't be sure.

[BroxburnHibee]

I watched a YouTube video called 'Top 10 films that would never be made today' and number 1 was Blazing Saddles.

Surely the point of that film was it satirised ALL prejudices?

I still find it brilliant.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur.

[Pretty Boy]

I watched a YouTube video called 'Top 10 films that would never be made today' and number 1 was Blazing Saddles.

Surely the point of that film was it satirised ALL prejudices?

I still find it brilliant.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur.

There has to be an acceptance that in character comedy or fictional drama in general that there will be characters who have attitudes and beliefs or use words and phrases that don't reflect the generally accepted societal norms. It's what makes a fictional character rounded and believable.

I recently read an article which suggested The Inbetweeners was inherently misogynistic. I would argue the person who has interpreted it in such a way has completely missed the point. The Inbetweeners works as a show because the butt of the joke is almost always the 4 leads. Yes they talk about women in a vulgar way, yes they are obsessed with sex, yes they have a pretty shallow view of what they expect from women. However the comedy comes from the fact that their views on women lead to them lurching from one disaster to another, they are immature and are of no interest to the girls they lust after because their obvious desperation and lack of social skills shines through. Their misogyny, it's impact and the awkwardness it presents is the joke and it works. As TV interpretations of teenage boys go it's not a bad one. Certainly more believable that the likes of Skins which was of a similar era. On a similar theme the faux outrage around the use of the word 'faggot' in the Gavin & Stacey Christmas special confused me. James Corden and Ruth Jones didn't write a scene to be intentionally inflammatory or to push forward a homophobic agenda. They have developed 2 characters over a number of years, neither has ever given any indication they would buy into 'being PC' and it would have been wholly unbelievable had they self censored that word in the song. To extend that I don't believe the song itself is homophobic; MacCgown and MacColl played characters in the song and the vulgarity and suggested depravity adds a weight and a depth to the charcaters. If you remove words like '****bag', 'slut' and 'faggot' does the song have the same impact?

How many of the best characters in film and TV history have been dark and flawed? Imagine a world in which we remove the ability to flesh those characters out because there is a fear of being labelled racist, homophobic, xenophobic or a million other things. The idea of churning out vanilla TV and film characters written with the fear of offending at the front of the mind just seems very Mary Whitehouse.

[SideBurns]

There has to be an acceptance that in character comedy or fictional drama in general that there will be characters who have attitudes and beliefs or use words and phrases that don't reflect the generally accepted societal norms. It's what makes a fictional character rounded and believable.

I recently read an article which suggested The Inbetweeners was inherently misogynistic. I would argue the person who has interpreted it in such a way has completely missed the point. The Inbetweeners works as a show because the butt of the joke is almost always the 4 leads. Yes they talk about women in a vulgar way, yes they are obsessed with sex, yes they have a pretty shallow view of what they expect from women. However the comedy comes from the fact that their views on women lead to them lurching from one disaster to another, they are immature and are of no interest to the girls they lust after because their obvious desperation and lack of social skills shines through. Their misogyny, it's impact and the awkwardness it presents is the joke and it works. As TV interpretations of teenage boys go it's not a bad one. Certainly more believable that the likes of Skins which was of a similar era. On a similar theme the faux outrage around the use of the word 'faggot' in the Gavin & Stacey Christmas special confused me. James Corden and Ruth Jones didn't write a scene to be intentionally inflammatory or to push forward a homophobic agenda. They have developed 2 characters over a number of years, neither has ever given any indication they would buy into 'being PC' and it would have been wholly unbelievable had they self censored that word in the song. To extend that I don't believe the song itself is homophobic; MacCgown and MacColl played characters in the song and the vulgarity and suggested depravity adds a weight and a depth to the charcaters. If you remove words like '****bag', 'slut' and 'faggot' does the song have the same impact?

How many of the best characters in film and TV history have been dark and flawed? Imagine a world in which we remove the ability to flesh those characters out because there is a fear of being labelled racist, homophobic, xenophobic or a million other things. The idea of churning out vanilla TV and film characters written with the fear of offending at the front of the mind just seems very Mary Whitehouse.

I agree with all this.

There's a scene in a Fawlty Towers episode where the Major is explaining the difference to Basil between the Indians & the West Indians, using terms now thankfully long since consigned to the dustbin. Even Fawlty (a man not without his own prejudices) is looking at the Major in disbelief. This was the 1970s, and yet if the average viewer is assumed to have a reasonable level of intelligence it is obvious that the scene is a poke at the colonial English upper class, and the casual racism which the Major thought nothing of publicly professing.

When considering whether these old comedies should still be broadcast, some thought has to be given as to the target audience. I'd suggest a large proportion will be those who watched them the first time round, enjoying the nostalgia with an awareness that there are scenes including racist, sexist or homophobic remarks which aren't acceptable any longer. Young people who tune in will likely just shake their heads at the ignorance of previous generations.

[Andy74]

I see Friends is also being criticised.

It was a programme about a certain set of friends. To reflect diversity you also have to be able to show that in life not every set of friends or groups of people will be split by ratios.

There are a lot of things now being done with perhaps the right intentions but not approaching the issues in the right way.

[Smartie]

Being a white, very loosely protestant male who has lived their entire life somewhere within an area between Edinburgh and Dundee (expanding it out to have spent an exotic couple of years as a kid in Linlithgow) I've never known prejudice so it is hard to offer constructive comments on offence. I was specky, considered by some to be a swot at school, and during my adult life I've added a few pounds of weight and the start of male pattern baldness to my appearance so I have been no stranger to various levels of "abuse", albeit nothing sinister. It goes with growing up, having mates, living in Scotland.

I suppose my nationality is probably the thing I've come closest to being genuinely abused for. A couple of kickings and loads of verbals on holiday as a kid from English kids. Sometimes it was vicious, nasty and horrible, often it was playful, good natured and fun.

I consider us Scots to be quite a ridiculous bunch and we deserve an appropriate (ie very high) level of mocking, as long as it is genuinely good natured. I don't even object if boundaries are pushed and I would be genuinely gutted if humour got to the stage that we were so sensitive about getting the piss taken out of us that we couldn't even take the piss out of ourselves.

On balance, I'm not really comfortable with these shows being airbrushed out. I quite like that the makers of these shows have said that they wouldn't make them now, and I think that's clarification enough. The shows don't need pulled altogether and I don't think censorship on that level helps, especially when the shows are mocking prejudice and the ugly characters are the bigots. But - I don't really feel that it's my place to say that and if enough people find them offensive or if the genuine perception is that they so longer sit right them I'm happy to accept the decision that has been made.

[JeMeSouviens]

When I was at school, a wee while back now, one of our English texts was Shakespeare’s ‘The Merchant of Venice’. I found it appalling in my teenage self-righteousness, anti-Semitic and pretty horrible in how Shylock was treated.

As I have gotten older and revisited the text and seen interpretations of it on the stage, I appreciate there is more nuance. One can argue that Shakespeare was making more subtle points about discrimination and not merely parodying or stereotyping, and also mocking the Christians as shallow and virtueless. Or one can argue that it is just anti-Jewish tropes brought to life in a play. And there was no shortage of anti-Judaism in the sixteenth century.

It is a difficult one. Unfortunately, apart from that element it makes for a damn fine play. Would I go to the theatre to see it again? Yes, but I don’t know how comfortable I would feel leaving afterwards. A lot would depend on how it was directed and staged.

Dickens is another one - Oliver Twist is practically Nazi propaganda. Not sure there's much room for nuance there.

[Andy74]

Gone with the Wind now removed from HBO.

[CapitalGreen]

gone with the wind now temporarily removed from hbo.

ftfy

[Andy74]

ftfy

I don’t like this habit of ‘fixing’ other people’s posts. That’s what I posted - if there’s anything else to say then add yourself.

[CapitalGreen]

i don’t like this habit of ‘fixing’ other people’s posts. That’s what i posted - if there’s any key details i’ve excluded it’s up to others to find that out themselves.

ftfy

[Vault Boy]

This isn't censorship. It's a private company choosing what they want to platform on their own website. Little Britain hasn't been banned at all, that title is very misleading. If you want to watch it, go and buy the DVDs, you're still allowed to do so.

Whether or not you think it's a morally correct decision or not is a different question. But censorship it isn't.

[CropleyWasGod]

This isn't censorship. It's a private company choosing what they want to platform on their own website. Little Britain hasn't been banned at all, that title is very misleading. If you want to watch it, go and buy the DVDs, you're still allowed to do so.

Whether or not you think it's a morally correct decision or not is a different question. But censorship it isn't.

It's not just Netflix that have removed it. It's been taken down from iPlayer as well.

[Vault Boy]

It's not just Netflix that have removed it. It's been taken down from iPlayer as well.

That's still just an individual choice by a company. It can still be purchased on YouTube, Prime, iTunes or on DVD. It's still not censorship.

[CropleyWasGod]

That's still just an individual choice by a company. It can still be purchased on YouTube, Prime, iTunes or on DVD. It's still not censorship.

I agree, except to point out that iPlayer is the BBC, which is therefore less of a commercial decision.

"The BBC and Britbox took Little Britain off on Monday. Both outlets said "times have changed" since it first aired."

[Vault Boy]

I agree, except to point out that iPlayer is the BBC, which is therefore less of a commercial decision.

"The BBC and Britbox took Little Britain off on Monday. Both outlets said "times have changed" since it first aired."

CWG I know what you're saying. I'd see it as a problem if iPlayer made available all BBC content on its platform, but I think it's important to note that it doesn't, and it does make Netflix-esq decisions based on the cost of licensing content and also issues around rights all the time. The BBC remove shows from iPlayer pretty regularly, for multiple reasons, so I don't think there's more of a problem with them removing Little Britain for ethical/PR reasons.

The point of my OP is that this isn't censorship and Little Britain hasn't been banned, like shown in the title and suggested by some other posters. I think it's an important distinction to make.

[Sir David Gray]

CWG I know what you're saying. I'd see it as a problem if iPlayer made available all BBC content on its platform, but I think it's important to note that it doesn't, and it does make Netflix-esq decisions based on the cost of licensing content and also issues around rights all the time. The BBC remove shows from iPlayer pretty regularly, for multiple reasons, so I don't think there's more of a problem with them removing Little Britain for ethical/PR reasons.

The point of my OP is that this isn't censorship and Little Britain hasn't been banned, like shown in the title and suggested by some other posters. I think it's an important distinction to make.

The BBC's statement;

"There's a lot of historical programming available on BBC iPlayer, which we regularly review," a BBC spokesperson said.

"Times have changed since Little Britain first aired so it is not currently available on BBC iPlayer."

Censorship is defined as;

The suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.

Just because the BBC doesn't make all content available on the iPlayer is irrelevant. The fact is they did make Little Britain available until two days ago and have now removed it because "times have changed" i.e. it's now considered to be "obscene or politically unacceptable" therefore it absolutely is censorship on the part of the BBC.

[Kato]

Loady public schoolboy ***** anyway.

[Vault Boy]

The BBC's statement;

"There's a lot of historical programming available on BBC iPlayer, which we regularly review," a BBC spokesperson said.

"Times have changed since Little Britain first aired so it is not currently available on BBC iPlayer."

Censorship is defined as;

The suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.

Just because the BBC doesn't make all content available on the iPlayer is irrelevant. The fact is they did make Little Britain available until two days ago and have now removed it because "times have changed" i.e. it's now considered to be "obscene or politically unacceptable" therefore it absolutely is censorship on the part of the BBC.

The definition you've provided helps to prove that this isn't censorship.

The BBC haven't removed the blackface scenes. The government hasn't mandated against them. If you're desperate to see them, go to YouTube or pay for Little Britain on another service. They've simply chosen not to platform the show anymore, completely within their right in doing so. That isn't 'prohibiting any part of a book, film or news etc,' you can still watch them in their entirety. If they had just removed the blackface scenes, that would be censoring the content.

The content hasn't changed, it has just been removed from certain areas. It's still available in full.

This is not censorship.

[neil7908]

I see Friends is also being criticised.

It was a programme about a certain set of friends. To reflect diversity you also have to be able to show that in life not every set of friends or groups of people will be split by ratios.

There are a lot of things now being done with perhaps the right intentions but not approaching the issues in the right way.

Friends is a tricky one. I enjoyed it at the time and I do agree to some extent that we should be careful at how much scrutiny we place on shows and books from the past.

But even at the time it seemed a bit odd. New York is one of the most racially diverse cities in the world. And there were hardly any non-white actors across the whole show. From memory Ross dates a black woman at some point but even outwith the main cast, the supporting cast, extras, guest stars etc were very, very white, in a city that's very, very diverse.

And I think it deserves criticism for that.

[Smartie]

Friends is a tricky one. I enjoyed it at the time and I do agree to some extent that we should be careful at how much scrutiny we place on shows and books from the past.

But even at the time it seemed a bit odd. New York is one of the most racially diverse cities in the world. And there were hardly any non-white actors across the whole show. From memory Ross dates a black woman at some point but even outwith the main cast, the supporting cast, extras, guest stars etc were very, very white, in a city that's very, very diverse.

And I think it deserves criticism for that.

I find it funny in that whilst I quite liked Friends, I thought it was the epitome of inoffensive, cuddly, softly-softly, vanilla, politically correct comedy.

It's slightly bizarre that it now seems to be being criticised in this way, and I wonder if it actually possibly to make anything that is actually funny whilst staying on the right side of every possible line here?

Should every show have a diverse selection of characters? Is it not possible that in an ethnically diverse city, such as New York or London, that you would get a group of friends who are all of the same ethnic origin? Should you have a muslim drinking in the pub in Cheers? Should you throw a few token white people into programmes based in places where the people in it are highly likely to be of the same ethnic origin, even if that isn't typical of that place's wider metropolitan area?

[Sir David Gray]

The definition you've provided helps to prove that this isn't censorship.

The BBC haven't removed the blackface scenes. The government hasn't mandated against them. If you're desperate to see them, go to YouTube or pay for Little Britain on another service. They've simply chosen not to platform the show anymore, completely within their right in doing so. That isn't 'prohibiting any part of a book, film or news etc,' you can still watch them in their entirety. If they had just removed the blackface scenes, that would be censoring the content.

The content hasn't changed, it has just been removed from certain areas. It's still available in full.

This is not censorship.

OK probably best we agree to disagree on that then as we obviously have very different interpretations of censorship and we're not likely to agree.

Good to hear your thoughts though. :aok:

[500miles]

If you're going to blackface in comedy you need to be really clever, really funny and have an actual point. Little Britain done none of those things.

[G B Young]

I find it funny in that whilst I quite liked Friends, I thought it was the epitome of inoffensive, cuddly, softly-softly, vanilla, politically correct comedy.

It's slightly bizarre that it now seems to be being criticised in this way, and I wonder if it actually possibly to make anything that is actually funny whilst staying on the right side of every possible line here?

Should every show have a diverse selection of characters? Is it not possible that in an ethnically diverse city, such as New York or London, that you would get a group of friends who are all of the same ethnic origin? Should you have a muslim drinking in the pub in Cheers? Should you throw a few token white people into programmes based in places where the people in it are highly likely to be of the same ethnic origin, even if that isn't typical of that place's wider metropolitan area?

It's not just comedy that faces difficulties. If programme makers feel a certain pressure to cast more black actors, will it limit not only the creative scope of the producers but of the actors themselves due to fear that they might inadvertently 'stereotype' someone?

Re your point about Friends and ethnic origins, were there any white cast members of the Cosby Show? And if not, was this ever commented on or was it, like Friends, just generally accepted that the ethnic origins of the characters reflected their day-to-day life?

[G B Young]

If you're going to blackface in comedy you need to be really clever, really funny and have an actual point. Little Britain done none of those things.

Bit off tangent but on the subject of blackface why would anyone do so for Up Helly Aa? It's not a festival I've ever paid particular attention to so I'm perhaps missing something about its traditions, but I thought it was all about the Vikings?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-52991046

[Scouse Hibee]

I see Ant & Dec have issued an apology for a sketch they done years ago imitating two Jamaican women, it’s getting ridiculous.

[SteveHFC]

I see Ant & Dec have issued an apology for a sketch they done years ago imitating two Jamaican women, it’s getting ridiculous.

It has to stop.

Waiting for the day the likes of the peep show and inbetweeners get removed because it offends someone.

[Vault Boy]

I see Ant & Dec have issued an apology for a sketch they done years ago imitating two Jamaican women, it’s getting ridiculous.

IMO the only ridiculous thing is how long it has taken some folk to realise that mindless blackface comedy isn't okay.

[Scouse Hibee]

IMO the only ridiculous thing is how long it has taken some folk to realise that mindless blackface comedy isn't okay.

Nothing mindless about it. Pretty inclusive if you ask me.
What’s the problem, you can impersonate anyone you like during a comedy sketch as long as the folk you are impersonating are white?

[Vault Boy]

Nothing mindless about it. Pretty inclusive if you ask me.
What’s the problem, you can impersonate anyone you like during a comedy sketch as long as the folk you are impersonating are white?

That's a bizzare take. Lucas and Walliams' blackface comedy was nothing more than a minstrel show. There wasn't any social commentary, greater point or fine nuance in which the joke was really about racism as a concept, it was just a rudimentary 'haha blacked up person funny.'

There's absolutely nothing inclusive about two white men blacking up and creating a caricature of BAME folk, instead of actually hiring black actors. That's the direct opposite of inclusivity. I honestly can't comprehend how you could deem blackface inclusive.

[1875godsgift]

CWG I know what you're saying. I'd see it as a problem if iPlayer made available all BBC content on its platform, but I think it's important to note that it doesn't, and it does make Netflix-esq decisions based on the cost of licensing content and also issues around rights all the time. The BBC remove shows from iPlayer pretty regularly, for multiple reasons, so I don't think there's more of a problem with them removing Little Britain for ethical/PR reasons.

The point of my OP is that this isn't censorship and Little Britain hasn't been banned, like shown in the title and suggested by some other posters. I think it's an important distinction to make.

I sell online and I've just had a 'Notification of Restricted Products Removal' message from Amazon regarding "Little Britain - Series 2 [DVD] [2003]"

In other words, delete this listing within 48 hours or your selling account will be suspended.

[Vault Boy]

I sell online and I've just had a 'Notification of Restricted Products Removal' message from Amazon regarding "Little Britain - Series 2 [DVD] [2003]"

In other words, delete this listing within 48 hours or your selling account will be suspended.

I'd probably contact Amazon about that, given they're still streaming it on Prime.

[1875godsgift]

I'd probably contact Amazon about that, given they're still streaming it on Prime.

Not worth it mate, if they tell you to stop selling something then you stop - pronto!

If you search for Little Britain DVD's on Amazon now, most of them are 'currently unavailable'.

[Vault Boy]

Not worth it mate, if they tell you to stop selling something then you stop - pronto!

If you search for Little Britain DVD's on Amazon now, most of them are 'currently unavailable'.

I'll take your word on that, Amazon don't seem like the sort to be messed with! I hope your account stays functional.

I wonder if it'll be an active choice to no longer platform the show, or if it's due to the apparent 200,000% increase in sales and some accusations of price gouging. Will check back on it in the morning.

[1875godsgift]

I'll take your word on that, Amazon don't seem like the sort to be messed with!

I wonder if it'll be an active choice to no longer platform the show, or if it's due to the apparent 200,000% increase in sales and some accusations of price gouging. Will check back on it in the morning.

That's true, they're pretty hot on price gouging at the moment!

I reckon they'll ban everybody from selling it, except themselves of course, and it'll still be available on Prime.

[Mibbes Aye]

In my opinion, limited as it is, this usually helps.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6jJIVK-daGk

[Mibbes Aye]

In my opinion, limited as it is, this usually helps.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6jJIVK-daGk

Never understood why it was Diff’rent Strokes instead of Different Strokes.

[SteveHFC]

Inbetweeners youtube channel has been removed.

This has to ****ing stop. We won’t be able to watch certain comedy shows now Incase it offends someone.

[Scouse Hibee]

That's a bizzare take. Lucas and Walliams' blackface comedy was nothing more than a minstrel show. There wasn't any social commentary, greater point or fine nuance in which the joke was really about racism as a concept, it was just a rudimentary 'haha blacked up person funny.'

There's absolutely nothing inclusive about two white men blacking up and creating a caricature of BAME folk, instead of actually hiring black actors. That's the direct opposite of inclusivity. I honestly can't comprehend how you could deem blackface inclusive.

I’m specifically referring to Ant & Dec nothing else, the suggestion they should hire two black actors to do a sketch where they want to impersonate black people is bizarre, ridiculous and beyond comprehension.

[lapsedhibee]

I’m specifically referring to Ant & Dec nothing else, the suggestion they should hire two black actors to do a sketch where they want to impersonate black people is bizarre, ridiculous and beyond comprehension.

Next you'll be saying Barry Humphries shouldn't have hired a woman actor to play Edna Everage!

[StevesFamau5]

That's a bizzare take. Lucas and Walliams' blackface comedy was nothing more than a minstrel show. There wasn't any social commentary, greater point or fine nuance in which the joke was really about racism as a concept, it was just a rudimentary 'haha blacked up person funny.'

There's absolutely nothing inclusive about two white men blacking up and creating a caricature of BAME folk, instead of actually hiring black actors. That's the direct opposite of inclusivity. I honestly can't comprehend how you could deem blackface inclusive.Another thing to possibly bring up is how often the 'black' characters were portrayed as fat and stereotypically loud or brash assuming the cultural stereotype of 'angry black woman'.

Little Britain and Keith Lemon's characters both seem to fall under this category.

As a teenager during the rise of Little Britain's popularity it was always the one sketch that I had trouble finding funny and if I'm honest it made me cringe but at that age I think it was because it wasn't that funny to me rather than the actual portrayal itself.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

Don't worry, guys.

Love Thy Neighbour is still available on YouTube

[hibsbollah]

Don't worry, guys.

Love Thy Neighbour is still available on YouTube

I loved some of those National Lampoon movies in the 70s and 80s. I rewatched Animal House recently, my favourite of those US New Wave ones, and it does not age well from a race/sexual politics perspective.

[JeMeSouviens]

Never understood why it was Diff’rent Strokes instead of Different Strokes.

Merkins say “diff-er-ent” as 3 very distinct syllables. Also “med-i-um” as I found to my embarrassment trying to order a “meedj-um” coffee.

[Scouse Hibee]

Don't worry, guys.

Love Thy Neighbour is still available on YouTube

Yes it was one of my early lockdown viewings.

I also watched East is East, one of the lines the son of the mixed race marriage shouted was “the pakis are coming” not sure if I should be offended or not!

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes it was one of my early lockdown viewings.

I also watched East is East, one of the lines the son of the mixed race marriage shouted was “the pakis are coming” not sure if I should be offended or not!

Scouse git.




😆

[Scouse Hibee]

Scouse git.




😆

Harry Enfield has been asked to prove that he used Scouse actors in his sketch and did not simply dress up non scousers in shell suits and false permed wigs and moustaches. I await his apology 😁

[Andy74]

IMO the only ridiculous thing is how long it has taken some folk to realise that mindless blackface comedy isn't okay.

Blackface in the sense of the minstrel show stuff is quite specific though and was a particular cultural send up that clearly wasn’t acceptable.

Should that mean that no one can now ever dress up as someone from a different cultural background? Seems like it but it shouldn’t be.

The Ant and Dec stuff was purely to be characters that they wouldn’t be recognised as. They had other disguises including old white guys.

The comment above about being inclusive is fair enough. If you are choosing races that definitely cannot ever be included in dressing up , parody or jokes then that continues to encourage the notion that race is something to differentiate people.

[Sir David Gray]

I see Ant & Dec have issued an apology for a sketch they done years ago imitating two Jamaican women, it’s getting ridiculous.

:agree: It's becoming absolutely absurd.


I sell online and I've just had a 'Notification of Restricted Products Removal' message from Amazon regarding "Little Britain - Series 2 [DVD] [2003]"

In other words, delete this listing within 48 hours or your selling account will be suspended.


Not worth it mate, if they tell you to stop selling something then you stop - pronto!

If you search for Little Britain DVD's on Amazon now, most of them are 'currently unavailable'.

I'm hesitant to use the word 'censorship' again but.....:rolleyes:

[Mr Grieves]

The mighty boosh and league of gentlemen removed from Netflix.

[Kato]

This is becoming like Operation Yewtree, where "celebrities" carried the can and politicians got off scot -free.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[-Jonesy-]

The mighty boosh and league of gentlemen removed from Netflix.

League of gentleman?

Because of papa lazarou? Because of babs the not quite trans taxi driver?

Seems a little over the top most of this, never even saw papa lazarou as a black person myself, just a lunatic with a painted face.

[Eaststand]

League of gentleman?

Because of papa lazarou? Because of babs the not quite trans taxi driver?

Seems a little over the top most of this, never even saw papa lazarou as a black person myself, just a lunatic with a painted face.

Yep, I guess I'd better watch The Life of Brian movie pronto before that gets pulled too

GGTTH

[Vault Boy]

I’m specifically referring to Ant & Dec nothing else, the suggestion they should hire two black actors to do a sketch where they want to impersonate black people is bizarre, ridiculous and beyond comprehension.


Blackface in the sense of the minstrel show stuff is quite specific though and was a particular cultural send up that clearly wasn’t acceptable.

The comment above about being inclusive is fair enough. If you are choosing races that definitely cannot ever be included in dressing up , parody or jokes then that continues to encourage the notion that race is something to differentiate people.

The thread is about Little Britain so that's what I spoke about specifically, but apply it to Ant and Dec too, if the shoe fits. There's a reason they've apologised.

There is absolutely nothing inclusive about blackface and to again suggest otherwise shows considerable ignorance on the subject. Just look at the 'characters' that they play, they're a bloated caricaturisation of blackness and provide no greater commentary about racism, you're just meant to laugh at the white guy putting on a stereotypical accent and blackening their skin. There's nothing 'ridiculous' about the suggestion that maybe white people should stop using blackness as a comedic tool. As for 'beyond comprehension,' that'll be down to the reader.

[Scouse Hibee]

The thread is about Little Britain so that's what I spoke about specifically, but apply it to Ant and Dec too, if the shoe fits. There's a reason they've apologised.

There is absolutely nothing inclusive about blackface and to again suggest otherwise shows considerable ignorance on the subject. Just look at the 'characters' that they play, they're a bloated caricaturisation of blackness and provide no greater commentary about racism, you're just meant to laugh at the white guy putting on a stereotypical accent and blackening their skin. There's nothing 'ridiculous' about the suggestion that maybe white people should stop using blackness as a comedic tool. As for 'beyond comprehension,' that'll be down to the reader.

Wow you certainly have a blinkered view, I would go as far to say that you and people who are as blinkered as you are as much a part of the problem. Fear of backlash and public opinion has caused apologies and withdrawals of programmes because far too many like you are taking the whole subject a step too far, it’s ridiculous and I actually find blinkered opinions like your own laughable. We’ll never agree so I will leave it there, one thing I will never do though is bow to wannabe racism rakers, they’re worse than racists themselves!

[Scorrie]

Harry Enfield has been asked to prove that he used Scouse actors in his sketch and did not simply dress up non scousers in shell suits and false permed wigs and moustaches. I await his apology 😁

Harry Enfield was the only non-Scouser in that sketch! Completely acceptable therefore!!

[Vault Boy]

Wow you certainly have a blinkered view, I would go as far to say that you and people who are as blinkered as you are as much a part of the problem. It’s ridiculous and I actually find blinkered opinions like your own laughable.

Lkewise.

'Blackface is inclusive.'

[Just_Jimmy]

Never mind being labelled "racist", I'm confused at how little Britain or the mighty boosh can be categorised as comedy.

No loss as far as I'm concerned.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[The Modfather]

Never mind being labelled "racist", I'm confused at how little Britain or the mighty boosh can be categorised as comedy.

No loss as far as I'm concerned.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Haven’t seen Little Britain in years but found it very hit and miss at the time. As for the Mighty Boosh and Noel Fielding, never got it at all.

Anyway, I’m away to watch White Chicks on Prime 😀

[Jones28]

What did the inbetweeners do to warrant being taken down?

[Pretty Boy]

What did the inbetweeners do to warrant being taken down?

I referenced it earlier in the thread. Misogyny.

You would really have to miss the joke if you thought the show was misogynistic though.

[Mon Dieu4]

This is what annoys me these days and I don't mean blackface, but people's inability to laugh at themselves, everyone takes it far too serious and is always looking to pick faults, more often that not it's them being "offended" on behalf of someone else

Like him or loathe him Ricky Gervias did a good bit in one of his stand ups saying he will say anything he thinks is funny and doesn't care less if anyone takes offence

Same way JK Rowling is "cancelled" just now, she stands up for women and all of a sudden is the most trans hating raging lunatic that ever lived in some people's eyes

[CapitalGreen]

This is what annoys me these days and I don't mean blackface, but people's inability to laugh at themselves, everyone takes it far too serious and is always looking to pick faults, more often that not it's them being "offended" on behalf of someone else

Like him or loathe him Ricky Gervias did a good bit in one of his stand ups saying he will say anything he thinks is funny and doesn't care less if anyone takes offence

Same way JK Rowling is "cancelled" just now, she stands up for women and all of a sudden is the most trans hating raging lunatic that ever lived in some people's eyes

What examples do you have of people not being able to laugh at themselves?

[Mon Dieu4]

What examples do you have of people not being able to laugh at themselves?

The Internet, have you ever been on it? It's a sea of people taking offence for the slightest little thing and on other people's behalf, if you have Twitter I dare you to go make a joke about sexuality, gender or religion(other than Christianity) and watch the packs descend

This isn't a poor old white straight me thing on my account either and I'm not meaning heinous hate crimes, those people get everything they deserve but just feel the world needs to lighten up a bit

[Andy74]

The Internet, have you ever been on it? It's a sea of people taking offence for the slightest little thing and on other people's behalf, if you have Twitter I dare you to go make a joke about sexuality, gender or religion(other than Christianity) and watch the packs descend

This isn't a poor old white straight me thing on my account either and I'm not meaning heinous hate crimes, those people get everything they deserve but just feel the world needs to lighten up a bit

On the plus side you're the one remaining demographic that it's fine to take the piss out of. :greengrin

[Mon Dieu4]

On the plus side you're the one remaining demographic that it's fine to take the piss out of. :greengrin

And if it was a good joke I'd laugh about it :greengrin

Maybe it's that I have a self deprecating sense of humour and expect everyone to be the same

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

What did the inbetweeners do to warrant being taken down?

I've read it's to do with change of copyright rather than anything offensive. Watch The Inbetweeners boxsets often. The movies weren't the best, but the 3 series were hilarious.

[Keith_M]

I really do get the concerns people have about the levels of censorship being used just because something isn't considered quite 'woke' enough (I hate the word 'woke' as well, but there you go).

Friends is probably a decent example of that, with some of the episodes now being picked apart for any 'evidence' of inappropriate storylines or behaviour. It was possibly one of the least offensive TV shows you could imagine.


However, I've always found the 'blackface' thing to be a bit disturbing... and I was a kid in the 1970s when they had shows like The Black and White Minstrels on TV.

I'll never understand, for instance, why it was felt necessary to have a white guy painted brown and playing an Indian in 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum'. Why not just hire another Indian to play that part?

[SteveHFC]

People want Gavin and Stacey removed now :faf:

We are living in a generation of snowflakes.

[The 90+2]

Next:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/5692062/furious-race-row-gavin-stacey-seth-chinese-alan/

This is getting ridiculous and could end up stirring racial hate.

[The 90+2]

People want Gavin and Stacey removed now :faf:

We are living in a generation of snowflakes.

It’s not being snowflakes it’s people right now with too much time on their hands just wanting to be offended mate.

[SteveHFC]

Next:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/5692062/furious-race-row-gavin-stacey-seth-chinese-alan/

This is getting ridiculous and could end up stirring racial hate.

Something has to be done here, Nearly every comedy show in the U.K. will be all off the air due to these snowflakes.

[CapitalGreen]

Next:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/5692062/furious-race-row-gavin-stacey-seth-chinese-alan/

This is getting ridiculous and could end up stirring racial hate.

What’s more ridiculous is people getting wound up by a click bait article written by the Sun based on a couple of tweets.

[Pretty Boy]

Next:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/5692062/furious-race-row-gavin-stacey-seth-chinese-alan/

This is getting ridiculous and could end up stirring racial hate.

TV and film is going to be fun when every single character has to be saintly.

How can you develop a group of characters if everyone has to be blandly inoffensive?

[JeMeSouviens]

Next:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/5692062/furious-race-row-gavin-stacey-seth-chinese-alan/

This is getting ridiculous and could end up stirring racial hate.

A couple of people on twitter, who obviously don't like G&S, is not a campaign. It's a lazy journalist's way to fill out a story.

[Pretty Boy]

I wonder how long it will be until Little Britain et al makes it's way back on to some streaming services with little fanfare or controversy.

After the 'revelations' of SuperSize Me McDonald's made a few token changes to their menu and published nutritional information in response to the outrage that followed. For all of 6 months it was hot news. Over the last couple of years they have released things like the Grand Big Mac, add chips and a coke and you are north of 1600 calories, and there was little real public outcry.

Why? Did junk food become OK? Or is it just that hardly anyone under 30 has seen SuperSize Me and identity politics is this generations No Logo anti globalisation cause du jour?

Of course there are people who will continue the fight against racism. However for many in a few weeks times this will be filed alongside 'it's OK not to be ok', 'Be Kind' and 'Kony 2012'. Something to feel strongly about whilst it's in the news but ultimately a bit too much like hard work to really commit to.

[neil7908]

A couple of people on twitter, who obviously don't like G&S, is not a campaign. It's a lazy journalist's way to fill out a story.

This. Its a non story. It appears posters on here moaning about snowflakes are themselves quick to get upset over daft stuff that isn't actually an issue.

[Kato]

This. Its a non story. It appears posters on here moaning about snowflakes are themselves quick to get upset over daft stuff that isn't actually an issue.The story of the 21st Century thus far.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[StevesFamau5]

I wonder how long it will be until Little Britain et al makes it's way back on to some streaming services with little fanfare or controversy.

After the 'revelations' of SuperSize Me McDonald's made a few token changes to their menu and published nutritional information in response to the outrage that followed. For all of 6 months it was hot news. Over the last couple of years they have released things like the Grand Big Mac, add chips and a coke and you are north of 1600 calories, and there was little real public outcry.

Why? Did junk food become OK? Or is it just that hardly anyone under 30 has seen SuperSize Me and identity politics is this generations No Logo anti globalisation cause du jour?

Of course there are people who will continue the fight against racism. However for many in a few weeks times this will be filed alongside 'it's OK not to be ok', 'Be Kind' and 'Kony 2012'. Something to feel strongly about whilst it's in the news but ultimately a bit too much like hard work to really commit to.I forgot about Kony2012.... That was nuts.

Already noticed the lack of #BeKind from Facebook, apparently to hell with being kind, it's all racism now [emoji849]

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

[Keith_M]

Just saw an article saying that the BBC have pulled the Fawlty Towers episode "The Germans" from their catch-up service.

They refuse to confirm why, but it's only that episode. Apparently, 'don't mention the war' is considered offensive.

Which is a bit strange as it's my wife's favourite episode... and she's German. She even used to have hamsters called Basil and Sybil.

I expect they'll be trying to ban 'Allo Allo' next.

:rolleyes:

[Scouse Hibee]

Just saw an article saying that the BBC have pulled the Fawlty Towers episode "The Germans" from their catch-up service.

They refuse to confirm why, but it's only that episode. Apparently, 'don't mention the war' is considered offensive.

Which is a bit strange as it's my wife's favourite episode... and she's German. She even used to have hamsters called Basil and Sybil.

I expect they'll be trying to ban 'Allo Allo' next.

:rolleyes:

The lunatics have taken over the asylum!

[greenlex]

Just saw an article saying that the BBC have pulled the Fawlty Towers episode "The Germans" from their catch-up service.

They refuse to confirm why, but it's only that episode. Apparently, 'don't mention the war' is considered offensive.

Which is a bit strange as it's my wife's favourite episode... and she's German. She even used to have hamsters called Basil and Sybil.

I expect they'll be trying to ban 'Allo Allo' next.

:rolleyes:
Hopefully the bbc will ban itself and pull itself as folk find it offensive too.

[Andy74]

I forgot about Kony2012.... That was nuts.

Already noticed the lack of #BeKind from Facebook, apparently to hell with being kind, it's all racism now [emoji849]

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

These types of reactions just fed my natural cynicism and contrary nature.

I feel I’ve got a good sense of right and wrong and I understand the nuance in most situations. I just can’t subscribe to these global reactions to incidents. Incidents that we actually don’t really know the background to in any real depth.

I think people largely mean well but I think most of it totally misses the real point and actually diminishes the chances of real action being taken over the actual issues at play.

[Sir David Gray]

Just saw an article saying that the BBC have pulled the Fawlty Towers episode "The Germans" from their catch-up service.

They refuse to confirm why, but it's only that episode. Apparently, 'don't mention the war' is considered offensive.

Which is a bit strange as it's my wife's favourite episode... and she's German. She even used to have hamsters called Basil and Sybil.

I expect they'll be trying to ban 'Allo Allo' next.

:rolleyes:

It doesn't surprise me if they've done this, I mentioned this was on the cards further up in this thread.

I actually find this offensive, will anyone at the BBC take notice of that?

[Mr Grieves]

Just saw an article saying that the BBC have pulled the Fawlty Towers episode "The Germans" from their catch-up service.

They refuse to confirm why, but it's only that episode. Apparently, 'don't mention the war' is considered offensive.

Which is a bit strange as it's my wife's favourite episode... and she's German. She even used to have hamsters called Basil and Sybil.

I expect they'll be trying to ban 'Allo Allo' next.

:rolleyes:

It's UKTV that have dropped it. The BBC cut a scene from that episode a few years ago as it contained strong racist language and was shown before the watershed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2013/jan/23/fawlty-towers-isnt-racist-major-gowen-is

[Sir David Gray]

It's UKTV that have dropped it. The BBC cut a scene from that episode a few years ago as it contained strong racist language and was shown before the watershed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2013/jan/23/fawlty-towers-isnt-racist-major-gowen-is

I've just noticed that this episode has gone from my Sky planner I take it this is down to UKTV then as opposed to the BBC or even Sky?

Either way I honestly find this move offensive regardless of who's behind it. Absolutely pathetic.

[Hiber-nation]

It's UKTV that have dropped it. The BBC cut a scene from that episode a few years ago as it contained strong racist language and was shown before the watershed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2013/jan/23/fawlty-towers-isnt-racist-major-gowen-is

The BBC own UKTV apparently.

I wonder if there's any footage of this sketch available :greengrin http://www.montypython.net/scripts/prejudice.php

[Colr]

I've just noticed that this episode has gone from my Sky planner I take it this is down to UKTV then as opposed to the BBC or even Sky?

Either way I honestly find this move offensive regardless of who's behind it. Absolutely pathetic.

That scene was cut from most online versions years ago. The programme is none the worse for it.

[Colr]

Have they banned their show set in the airport as well? What about shows like Ali G and Bo selecta, they banned too? Then there's films like Traiding Places.....

Russ Abbott’s Jimmy?

[Sir David Gray]

That scene was cut from most online versions years ago. The programme is none the worse for it.

Now the full episode's gone though while they "review it".

What's to review? The episode's been in circulation for 45 years.

Put a music style "parental advisory" sticker on the TV at the start of the episode or a film style 18+ warning before it or even stick it behind a pin encryption like a lot of other content deemed unsuitable for daytime viewing and then let adults decide if they want to choose to watch it or not.

[Keith_M]

It's UKTV that have dropped it. The BBC cut a scene from that episode a few years ago as it contained strong racist language and was shown before the watershed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2013/jan/23/fawlty-towers-isnt-racist-major-gowen-is


UKTV is owned by the BBC.

[Scorrie]

Russ Abbott’s Jimmy?

They should just ban that for being pish

[JeMeSouviens]

The BBC own UKTV apparently.

I wonder if there's any footage of this sketch available :greengrin http://www.montypython.net/scripts/prejudice.php

Or the one with Mrs N-word-Baiter :shocked:

[CropleyWasGod]

Can we get Midnight Express to **** now, finally :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

UKTV is owned by the BBC.

Is it not a joint venture with itv?

[Fuzzywuzzy]

I loved some of those National Lampoon movies in the 70s and 80s. I rewatched Animal House recently, my favourite of those US New Wave ones, and it does not age well from a race/sexual politics perspective.

Jesus! Rita, Sue and Bob Too doesn't stand a chance

[Sir David Gray]

Is it not a joint venture with itv?

It was initially a joint venture between the BBC and Thames Television, which was a franchise holder of ITV. However it's now fully owned by BBC Studios, the commercial arm of the BBC.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

The carry on films, Partridge, the office, porridge (?), OFAH are going to come under scrutiny

[Hiber-nation]

Jesus! Rita, Sue and Bob Too doesn't stand a chance

Christ I'd forgotten all about that crowning moment in the history of English film.

Suppose the Confessions films are done as well!

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Jesus! Rita, Sue and Bob Too doesn't stand a chance

Black Lace's finest moment. :wink:


https://youtu.be/mShoL4DEWto

[CropleyWasGod]

The carry on films, Partridge, the office, porridge (?), OFAH are going to come under scrutiny

Infamy, infamy.....


And your name? First against the wall.😆

[DaveF]

Blazing Saddles will never see the light of day again.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Infamy, infamy.....


And your name? First against the wall.😆

I know. But that's see no evil, hear no evil. Fuzzywuzzy was a woman

[hibsbollah]

Jesus! Rita, Sue and Bob Too doesn't stand a chance

:faf:

Yes I thought of that one immediately.
I can see why all of those mentioned are being looked at. Through most of the film, Bob is a bit of a pathetic figure, but after manipulating and raping Rita and Sue getting one pregnant and then there is a weird framing of them becoming ****buddies again at the end, as if it was all a bit of a laugh. The message is shocking, post Saville tbh. Animal House is a similar vein, boy meets schoolgirl in supermarket, invites her to party, gets her drunk, she’s lying asleep and an angel/devil appears on each shoulder saying ‘**** her brains out/don’t **** her brains out’. He doesn’t actually end up raping her, but the moral message is fairly clear, all chicks are fair game when they’ve had a drink. Maybe my views on censorship have changed a bit since I became a dad of two daughters.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Blazing Saddles will never see the light of day again.

Blazing saddles was satirical and if folk can't see it for that, then that's pretty messed up. FFS you went from a western to a punch up with dancers. It was the only thing I can ever remember seeing cleavin little in

[MartinfaePorty]

Blazing saddles was satirical and if folk can't see it for that, then that's pretty messed up. FFS you went from a western to a punch up with dancers. It was the only thing I can ever remember seeing cleavin little in

Yeah, it was supposed to be Richard Prior, who co-wrote it, but his drug history made him problematic for insurers, so he couldn't take the role.

[hibsbollah]

Just saw an article saying that the BBC have pulled the Fawlty Towers episode "The Germans" from their catch-up service.

They refuse to confirm why, but it's only that episode. Apparently, 'don't mention the war' is considered offensive.

Which is a bit strange as it's my wife's favourite episode... and she's German. She even used to have hamsters called Basil and Sybil.

I expect they'll be trying to ban 'Allo Allo' next.

:rolleyes:

It’s not because of the war, it’s because of the use of the N word.
It was considered inappropriate in 2013, and an edited version was made, so predates BLM.
The issue is the unedited version was the one being shown.
And it WILL continue to be shown with the N word scenes edited out.

[MartinfaePorty]

It’s not because of the war, it’s because of the use of the N word.
It was considered inappropriate in 2013, and an edited version was made, so predates BLM.
The issue is the unedited version was the one being shown.
And it WILL continue to be shown with the N word scenes edited out.

Cleese has come out with his opinion https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53020335

[Scorrie]

The carry on films, Partridge, the office, porridge (?), OFAH are going to come under scrutiny

Porridge is still largely funny but has some cringeworthy moments about McLaren, the black Scot and “Lukewarm”. Very 1970s I suppose but those references haven’t aged well

[Sir David Gray]

Cleese has come out with his opinion https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53020335

Totally agree with him.

[Hiber-nation]

Black Lace's finest moment. :wink:


https://youtu.be/mShoL4DEWto

:greengrin

Used to work beside a wifie who used to sing that song in the office, not having a scooby what it meant!

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Yeah, it was supposed to be Richard Prior, who co-wrote it, but his drug history made him problematic for insurers, so he couldn't take the role.

Prior and Wilder were great together. Never mixed off of set though. I've been listening to priors stuff on Amazon music. Very good

[DH1875]

"Where are all the white women at?"

"Drunk white women for everyone ".

Two lines from seriously funny movies. Given they dont portrait white women well in the movies im guessing they'll be banned sometime soon.

[CropleyWasGod]

Fawlty Towers has been reinstated.


Marketing manager of UKTV sits back, and sighs "Don't you love it when a plan comes together? Job done....."

[neil7908]

Fawlty Towers has been reinstated.


Marketing manager of UKTV sits back, and sighs "Don't you love it when a plan comes together? Job done....."

Yup. Much ado about nothing, despite all the rubbish spouted by Cleese and others.

[G B Young]

Totally agree with him.

Episode now reinstated:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53032895

And likely to give UKTV a big boost in viewing figures :wink:

[hibsbollah]

Episode now reinstated:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53032895

And likely to give UKTV a big boost in viewing figures :wink:

And so the myth that it was ‘banned’ by the loony left bbc continues. What actually happened was; It has the N word in, it wasn’t meant to, complaints were made, the correct warning was inserted (always should have been the case as per guidance) and it’s back up. An absolute non story to deflect the news agenda.

[Sir David Gray]

Episode now reinstated:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53032895

And likely to give UKTV a big boost in viewing figures :wink:

I'm glad that I can now go back to binge watching reruns of Only Fools and Horses on GOLD again!

I have no problem with adding a warning to the start of that episode and then leaving it up to the individual adult to decide for themselves if they wish to go ahead and watch it. I think that balance is absolutely the correct one, I welcome the move and pleased that common sense has prevailed.

[Keith_M]

It’s not because of the war, it’s because of the use of the N word.
It was considered inappropriate in 2013, and an edited version was made, so predates BLM.
The issue is the unedited version was the one being shown.
And it WILL continue to be shown with the N word scenes edited out.


Thanks for clarifying. That's not how it was reported but I'm happy to take your word for it.

[DH1875]

Wonder what they'll do about Reservoir dogs. No idea how many times the N word is used but it's a lot.

[hibsbollah]

Wonder what they'll do about Reservoir dogs. No idea how many times the N word is used but it's a lot.

That has already been played out in the form of the ‘beef’ between Spike Lee and Tarantino in the 90s. According to Lee, Tarantino peppering his movie with white protagonists using N was different from Lee doing the same as a black director. Samuel L Jackson weighed in on Tarantinos side. I’m not sure the beef was ever cleared up. Network TV probably didn’t need a reason to stay away from it considering the violence, mind you.

[neil7908]

Wonder what they'll do about Reservoir dogs. No idea how many times the N word is used but it's a lot.

It carries an 18 certificate already and therefore would only be shown after the watershed. There are loads of movies, shows, songs etc that have offensive language but are labelled correctly and shown at appropriate times.

Think people need to understand this - all the shows getting looked at now is based on them previously been seen as inoffensive. Stuff that was "family friendly" , pre-watershed in the past won't necessarily be the same now and that's not a bad thing.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yup. Much ado about nothing, despite all the rubbish spouted by Cleese and others.

Much ado about nothing? Don't start me about Bill Shakes and his racism, anti-Semitism, misogyny and transphobia.

And that was all before homosexuality had been invented ffs.

[DH1875]

That has already been played out in the form of the ‘beef’ between Spike Lee and Tarantino in the 90s. According to Lee, Tarantino peppering his movie with white protagonists using N was different from Lee doing the same as a black director. Samuel L Jackson weighed in on Tarantinos side. I’m not sure the beef was ever cleared up. Network TV probably didn’t need a reason to stay away from it considering the violence, mind you.


That was the 90s and this is the now though. It's on Film 4 all the time. Watched it the other night, that's what got me thinking. The scene in the office between nice guy Eddie and Mr Blonde would never be allowed now, well the language anyways.

[hibsbollah]

That was the 90s and this is the now though. It's on Film 4 all the time. Watched it the other night, that's what got me thinking. The scene in the office between nice guy Eddie and Mr Blonde would never be allowed now, well the language anyways.

Christopher Walken and Dennis Hoppers 5 minute dialogue in True Romance is also very similar.

[DH1875]

Christopher Walker and Dennis Hoppers 5 minute dialogue in True Romance is also very similar.

No idea why but I've never seen True Romance. Know everyone raves about it, particularly their performance but have never got round to it.

[hibsbollah]

No idea why but I've never seen True Romance. Know everyone raves about it, particularly their performance but have never got round to it.

The scene involves Hopper, who’s the father of the hero of the movie and otherwise a positive character in the story, having an uninterrupted racist monologue about how Italians are ‘essentially ******s‘ (within the context of knowing he’s about to be executed). It’s way way beyond what any director or writer could do today.

I loved the movie at the time, some great performances but I went back to it recently and thought it was a load of old nonsense from about half way through. Gary Oldman hammed it up so much I think he was taking the piss.

Wow, I typed the n word and didn’t realise it wouldn’t be swear filtered out. One for the mods.

[makaveli1875]

No idea why but I've never seen True Romance. Know everyone raves about it, particularly their performance but have never got round to it.

Best performance in that movie goes to Gary Oldman hands down and hes not even in it that long .

[matty_f]

I referenced it earlier in the thread. Misogyny.

You would really have to miss the joke if you thought the show was misogynistic though.

I was having this discussion with Mrs F yesterday - Inbetweeners uses misogynist language but isn't (imho) misogynistic at all.

At all times in the show, the joke is on the boys - they're shown up as pathetic and ridiculous more often that not, and for the most part the female characters in the show are portrayed as more powerful, smarter and superior to the boys.

As for Little Britain, I get the argument about blackface not being inclusive, it's hard to argue that, really. I don't think Matt Lucas or David Walliams did it with any racist intent and you could stretch an argument that in the show there are all sections of society that are fair game for send-up (they didn't get a female to play Vicci Pollard, or a disabled guy to play Andy -i think that was his name, and while they did use a gay guy to play the only gay in the village, the character was an exaggerated stereotype of a homosexual).

Vic and Bob used to do Marvin Gaye and Otis Redding as puppets, with their heads as the puppets' heads - blacked up, of course. In their most recent Big Night Out that sketch had changed to Ed Sheeran and another white musician I think. I'm sure that was changed due to sensitivities about blackface.

They've done ridiculous send ups of all sorts of celebrities (Lloyd Grossman as a vampire, for example) and I think there's a case to be made that black celebrities should be fair game as well, but then should they have used black actors for it?

I think it's a nuanced subject, I'm certain that in the examples discussed nobody has done anything maliciously out of racial hatred, but that doesn't excuse them and maybe rather than trying to condone it and get all flustered about changes to does after the event, we should take this time as an opportunity to educate ourselves on the sensitivities and ask ourselves if we can be better than laughing at our excusing blackface as a bit of harmless fun.

[wpj]

Christopher Walken and Dennis Hoppers 5 minute dialogue in True Romance is also very similar.

With the late great James Gandolfini as one of the mob guys

[Keith_M]

Little Britain was a load of crap anyway. I'd have happily banned it on that basis.

Maybe we should be allowed a vote on crappy TV shows we'd like to see banned.

Let's start with any shows with the word 'celebrity' in the title, or starring orange-skinned-self-obsessed-wannabee-famous-nonentities.

[EAZY-ME]

I wasn't a fan of little Britain but i always thought they were poking fun at the racists than actually being racist themselves

[CapitalGreen]

I wasn't a fan of little Britain but i always thought they were poking fun at the racists than actually being racist themselves

Not Little Britain but their other show Come Fly with Me. Not sure what racists are being poked fun at here.

https://youtu.be/Oq-HCRfeWQw

[Scouse Hibee]

I wasn't a fan of little Britain but i always thought they were poking fun at the racists than actually being racist themselves

I didn’t, I just thought they were making comedy which people laughed at and it didn’t seem to bother anyone.

[lapsedhibee]

Man jailed for urinating in the street. :crazy:

[EH6 Hibby]

Not Little Britain but their other show Come Fly with Me. Not sure what racists are being poked fun at here.

https://youtu.be/Oq-HCRfeWQw

My son made me watch come fly with me a few months ago, well before any of this kicked off, and my first comments were that I found some of it very uncomfortable to watch and those scenes were not funny in the slightest because of that. I thought some of it was funny, so it wasn’t their humour in general that I didn’t get. There was no need whatsoever for the coffee shop attendant to be black.