Madeleine McCann

[HappyAsHellas]

Greek newspaper today saying Scotland Yard want to question a German who is in prison about the missing girl. Haven't seen or heard anything about it here. Anyone heard anything?

[Sir David Gray]

Greek newspaper today saying Scotland Yard want to question a German who is in prison about the missing girl. Haven't seen or heard anything about it here. Anyone heard anything?

Sky News are reporting it as breaking news tonight.

[Hibs Class]

Was on BBC news about an hour ago

[Smartie]

Just realised Cataplana has been emptied.

This was what got him first involved in Hibs.net was it not?

[stoneyburn hibs]

Just realised Cataplana has been emptied.

This was what got him first involved in Hibs.net was it not?

Yep, like a dog with a bone.

[G B Young]

Yep, like a dog with a bone.

His output on the case was extraordinary. IIRC he could have simply said 'I think the parents are to blame' but instead he submitted dissertation-length posts several times a day for an average audience of about a dozen :greengrin

[wpj]

It's looking like a German guy is in the frame. As a dad I can only hope for some kind of closure for her parents. Mistakes were made but losing a child must be devastating.

[stoneyburn hibs]

His output on the case was extraordinary. IIRC he could have simply said 'I think the parents are to blame' but instead he submitted dissertation-length posts several times a day for an average audience of about a dozen :greengrin

😁 Dissertation is a fairly accurate description.

[Hiber-nation]

Just realised Cataplana has been emptied.

This was what got him first involved in Hibs.net was it not?

He was Filled Rolls before I suspect.

[wpj]

I didnt realise he had been emptied, was certainly obsessed with the case. Was he Filled Rolls? Never knew that.

[lapsedhibee]

He was Filled Rolls before I suspect.

Why do you say that? I didn't see resemblance in style.

[Hiber-nation]

Why do you say that? I didn't see resemblance in style.

I just had a hunch - then I thought someone else picked up on it...an admin maybe? Sorry if I'm wrong and please delete if I'm talking out of turn :lips seal

[lapsedhibee]

I just had a hunch - then I thought someone else picked up on it...an admin maybe? Sorry if I'm wrong and please delete if I'm talking out of turn :lips seal

Not saying you're wrong, just wouldn't have seen it myself.

[G B Young]

It's looking like a German guy is in the frame. As a dad I can only hope for some kind of closure for her parents. Mistakes were made but losing a child must be devastating.

This seems to be something with more genuine substance than a number of the false trails followed over the years, judging by the extent of the media coverage and the tone of the police statement. I certainly hope so. As you say, some form of conclusion for her family after all this time would be welcome.

[matty_f]

I just had a hunch - then I thought someone else picked up on it...an admin maybe? Sorry if I'm wrong and please delete if I'm talking out of turn :lips seal

You might think that, but we couldn’t possibly comment. :wink:

[Hibrandenburg]

This seems to be something with more genuine substance than a number of the false trails followed over the years, judging by the extent of the media coverage and the tone of the police statement. I certainly hope so. As you say, some form of conclusion for her family after all this time would be welcome.

In the grand scale of things it's only a minor point, but maybe the horrible conspiracy theories about them murdering/killing their own daughter will finally be put to rest.

[Hiber-nation]

You might think that, but we couldn’t possibly comment. :wink:

:thumbsup:

[Scouse Hibee]

In the grand scale of things it's only a minor point, but maybe the horrible conspiracy theories about them murdering/killing their own daughter will finally be put to rest.

Yes was thinking along the same lines myself, regardless of their failings the theories are horrible, unfounded and absolutely abhorrent towards parents who have had their child taken.

[JeMeSouviens]

Yes was thinking along the same lines myself, regardless of their failings the theories are horrible, unfounded and absolutely abhorrent towards parents who have had their child taken.

Not exactly unfounded. The Portugese police more or less hinted as much, didn't they?

But yes, I agree. I hope they are proved innocent. I don't suppose the parents will ever recover from what's happened, but they have other kids I think.

[JeMeSouviens]

He was Filled Rolls before I suspect.

Never thought of that but you could be onto something there ...

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?249456-Politicians-amp-Paedophilia&p=4084913&viewfull=1#post4084913

:hmmm:

[Steve-O]

His output on the case was extraordinary. IIRC he could have simply said 'I think the parents are to blame' but instead he submitted dissertation-length posts several times a day for an average audience of about a dozen :greengrin

As someone who watched the documentary I must break ranks here and admit I found his posts interesting even though I didn’t agree with some of what he said. And when I heard this latest news I quickly came here to see what he thought, only to see he’s gone! Damnit

[-Jonesy-]

Not exactly unfounded. The Portugese police more or less hinted as much, didn't they?

But yes, I agree. I hope they are proved innocent. I don't suppose the parents will ever recover from what's happened, but they have other kids I think.

I think the Portuguese police still consider them suspects

[Scouse Hibee]

Not exactly unfounded. The Portugese police more or less hinted as much, didn't they?

But yes, I agree. I hope they are proved innocent. I don't suppose the parents will ever recover from what's happened, but they have other kids I think.

Yes exactly unfounded with no evidence or facts to back up the suspicions.

[-Jonesy-]

Sounding like the German justice department have charged this German convict with her murder

[G B Young]

I think the Portuguese police still consider them suspects


I don't think that's true. They were named as suspects or 'arguidos' along with (I think) one of their friends a few weeks after their daughter's disappearance but IIRC that 'arguido' status was subsequently dropped by the Portuguese police.

As others have said, her parents will never recover from this but at least if this development finally brings the case to a conclusion it may grant them a degree of peace.

[blackpoolhibs]

Sounding like the German justice department have charged this German convict with her murder

Would the be allowed to do that, i'd have thought it would either be the Portugese or maybe the English police who'd do it? :confused:

[silverhibee]

Would the be allowed to do that, i'd have thought it would either be the Portugese or maybe the English police who'd do it? :confused:


That's what I thought as well, he would be extradited to Portugal to stand trial, German police seem confident she is dead and have enough evidence to charge him by the sounds of things, what if Portugal police don't see him as a suspect.

[-Jonesy-]

That's what I thought as well, he would be extradited to Portugal to stand trial, German police seem confident she is dead and have enough evidence to charge him by the sounds of things, what if Portugal police don't see him as a suspect.

Can only imagine, unless the “two years” of investigation by British police had been shared with the German ones, maybe he has confessed to it.

[JeMeSouviens]

That's what I thought as well, he would be extradited to Portugal to stand trial, German police seem confident she is dead and have enough evidence to charge him by the sounds of things, what if Portugal police don't see him as a suspect.

Unless they think he abducted her and took her to Germany?

[blackpoolhibs]

Unless they think he abducted her and took her to Germany?

Aye, never thought of that.

[JimBHibees]

Would the be allowed to do that, i'd have thought it would either be the Portugese or maybe the English police who'd do it? :confused:

Assume they wouldnt do this without agreement of two other forces. Has he been charged or just a suspect. Seem to still be asking for evidence witnesses to come forward.

Think he is in german prison assume he has confessed to police or other inmate.

[The Modfather]

It was sad at the time, but It’s very sobering now thinking about all of this again now I’m a father and have an 18 month old daughter!

[wpj]

It was sad at the time, but It’s very sobering now thinking about all of this again now I’m a father and have an 18 month old daughter!

I have a four year old girl, she means the world to me. I know Madeleine's parents have suffered so much. I can honestly say I would never leave my girl alone. I hope they find some kind of peace.

[CMurdoch]

This seems to be something with more genuine substance than a number of the false trails followed over the years, judging by the extent of the media coverage and the tone of the police statement. I certainly hope so. As you say, some form of conclusion for her family after all this time would be welcome.

I watched the multi part documentary on netflix and there was a lot of wild goose chases.
Absolutely excruciating pain for the parents at every turn of what was a cruel cruel circus at times.
The McCann's don't always come across as likeable but it would be a hard man that wouldn't want them to get relief from such a hellish burden.
This is looking a real runner and I really hope it works out.

[calumhibee1]

I saw absolutely no way that they didn’t do it. I thought they were guilty as sin. We’ll see how this plays out I suppose but it’s looking like they’ve been accused of something absolutely horrific when it might not even be true.

[Pretty Boy]

I sometimes cringe when I think back about some of the things I said about the McCanns in the past. I found them difficult to warm to and I think my view was shaped by someone I knew who had worked with Gerry McCann and described him as arrogant and obnoxious. Maybe he is but what does it matter to me? I know it sounds cliche but I think becoming a parent has given me a bit of perspective. It's too easy to say 'I would never have done this, that or the other' but ALL parents make mistakes and all parents are judged on those mistakes by others. I still find it hard to conceive of leaving my child unattended for a prolonged period out of earshot and eyesight but from discussions I have had with other people it seems to be more common than I imagined. My own parental view is largely irrelevant anyway; the McCanns made a mistake. They have paid a terrible price for the decision they made that night and they have to reconcile that in their own heads every day. The McCanns personalities, warmth or lack thereof and media depiction is really of no importance at all. To some extent I think the McCanns were victims of an inverted snobbery of sorts. People seemed to really believe they would have been treated differently had they been poorer or less educated. I think it's an idea I floated myself on occasion. Even if there is some truth in that I don't know what problem it solves. Would their other children have been better served being removed from their parents? I think it's fair to argue that is doubtful. There was also the argument they used their connections to keep their daughters name in the papers and keep her case funded. So what? Who among us wouldn't do the same for our children?

Of course every single action in the lead up to whatever happened that night is relevant but the responsibility for what it appears has happened to that little girl lies solely with the perpetrator. If the Police have finally got their man I hope it brings the McCanns some peace and finally allows them the chance to grieve privately for their child.

[matty_f]

I sometimes cringe when I think back about some of the things I said about the McCanns in the past. I found them difficult to warm to and I think my view was shaped by someone I knew who had worked with Gerry McCann and described him as arrogant and obnoxious. Maybe he is but what does it matter to me? I know it sounds cliche but I think becoming a parent has given me a bit of perspective. It's too easy to say 'I would never have done this, that or the other' but ALL parents make mistakes and all parents are judged on those mistakes by others. I still find it hard to conceive of leaving my child unattended for a prolonged period out of earshot and eyesight but from discussions I have had with other people it seems to be more common than I imagined. My own parental view is largely irrelevant anyway; the McCanns made a mistake. They have paid a terrible price for the decision they made that night and they have to reconcile that in their own heads every day. The McCanns personalities, warmth or lack thereof and media depiction is really of no importance at all. To some extent I think the McCanns were victims of an inverted snobbery of sorts. People seemed to really believe they would have been treated differently had they been poorer or less educated. I think it's an idea I floated myself on occasion. Even if there is some truth in that I don't know what problem it solves. Would their other children have been better served being removed from their parents? I think it's fair to argue that is doubtful. There was also the argument they used their connections to keep their daughters name in the papers and keep her case funded. So what? Who among us wouldn't do the same for our children?

Of course every single action in the lead up to whatever happened that night is relevant but the responsibility for what it appears has happened to that little girl lies solely with the perpetrator. If the Police have finally got their man I hope it brings the McCanns some peace and finally allows them the chance to grieve privately for their child.

Good post, PB - wholeheartedly agree with you.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Why do you say that? I didn't see resemblance in style.

Neither did I.

[JimBHibees]

I saw absolutely no way that they didn’t do it. I thought they were guilty as sin. We’ll see how this plays out I suppose but it’s looking like they’ve been accused of something absolutely horrific when it might not even be true.

At no time did I ever think they did it. The friends would have suspected something if so imo. Horrible whispering campaign aided and abetted with despicable book by head cop that bungled it in Portugal trying to deflect.

[G B Young]

I sometimes cringe when I think back about some of the things I said about the McCanns in the past. I found them difficult to warm to and I think my view was shaped by someone I knew who had worked with Gerry McCann and described him as arrogant and obnoxious. Maybe he is but what does it matter to me? I know it sounds cliche but I think becoming a parent has given me a bit of perspective. It's too easy to say 'I would never have done this, that or the other' but ALL parents make mistakes and all parents are judged on those mistakes by others. I still find it hard to conceive of leaving my child unattended for a prolonged period out of earshot and eyesight but from discussions I have had with other people it seems to be more common than I imagined. My own parental view is largely irrelevant anyway; the McCanns made a mistake. They have paid a terrible price for the decision they made that night and they have to reconcile that in their own heads every day. The McCanns personalities, warmth or lack thereof and media depiction is really of no importance at all. To some extent I think the McCanns were victims of an inverted snobbery of sorts. People seemed to really believe they would have been treated differently had they been poorer or less educated. I think it's an idea I floated myself on occasion. Even if there is some truth in that I don't know what problem it solves. Would their other children have been better served being removed from their parents? I think it's fair to argue that is doubtful. There was also the argument they used their connections to keep their daughters name in the papers and keep her case funded. So what? Who among us wouldn't do the same for our children?

Of course every single action in the lead up to whatever happened that night is relevant but the responsibility for what it appears has happened to that little girl lies solely with the perpetrator. If the Police have finally got their man I hope it brings the McCanns some peace and finally allows them the chance to grieve privately for their child.

Good post. What the McCanns could justifiably be criticised for was leaving their kids without an adult constantly supervising them, nothing more. However, as you say, not a day will go by when they don't blame themselves for that.

Whether already being a parent at that time had any bearing on my perspective I don't know, but at no time did I even consider they had anything to do with the crime. It seemed extraordinary to me that appearing a bit cold or arrogant was being held against them. Who the hell knows how they would come across in front of the world's media in similarly horrendous circumstances? The inverse snobbery you mention was exactly that and (if you recall) the subsequent Shannon Matthews case which commanded national news attention exposed that bitter line of thinking for what it was. The fact that the Matthews case turned out to be a sad, staged attempt to hitch a ride on Madeleine's disappareance only served to heighten the true tragedy the McCanns had suffered.

[Hibrandenburg]

I sometimes cringe when I think back about some of the things I said about the McCanns in the past. I found them difficult to warm to and I think my view was shaped by someone I knew who had worked with Gerry McCann and described him as arrogant and obnoxious. Maybe he is but what does it matter to me? I know it sounds cliche but I think becoming a parent has given me a bit of perspective. It's too easy to say 'I would never have done this, that or the other' but ALL parents make mistakes and all parents are judged on those mistakes by others. I still find it hard to conceive of leaving my child unattended for a prolonged period out of earshot and eyesight but from discussions I have had with other people it seems to be more common than I imagined. My own parental view is largely irrelevant anyway; the McCanns made a mistake. They have paid a terrible price for the decision they made that night and they have to reconcile that in their own heads every day. The McCanns personalities, warmth or lack thereof and media depiction is really of no importance at all. To some extent I think the McCanns were victims of an inverted snobbery of sorts. People seemed to really believe they would have been treated differently had they been poorer or less educated. I think it's an idea I floated myself on occasion. Even if there is some truth in that I don't know what problem it solves. Would their other children have been better served being removed from their parents? I think it's fair to argue that is doubtful. There was also the argument they used their connections to keep their daughters name in the papers and keep her case funded. So what? Who among us wouldn't do the same for our children?

Of course every single action in the lead up to whatever happened that night is relevant but the responsibility for what it appears has happened to that little girl lies solely with the perpetrator. If the Police have finally got their man I hope it brings the McCanns some peace and finally allows them the chance to grieve privately for their child.

Good post and I hope many of those who demonized the McCanns will also show similar empathy if they are found to have only made a terrible choice to have left their children unattended in the room.

[G B Young]

Curious rationale from the BBC for blacking out the pics/name of the suspect which pretty much every UK paper has published on their front pages. 'The BBC website can be accessed in Germany'...can all these newspaper websites not be accessed in Germany too?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-52930228

[CropleyWasGod]

Curious rationale from the BBC for blacking out the pics/name of the suspect which pretty much every UK paper has published on their front pages. 'The BBC website can be accessed in Germany'...can all these newspaper websites not be accessed in Germany too?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-52930228

For me, the BBC approach is the correct one. IMO no-one accused of such horrific crimes should have their identity revealed prior to conviction.

The others, to me, are irresponsible and click-baiting.

[G B Young]

For me, the BBC approach is the correct one. IMO no-one accused of such horrific crimes should have their identity revealed prior to conviction.

The others, to me, are irresponsible and click-baiting.

I was meaning more that the reason the BBC gave seemed a bit silly. If they'd said something like 'it is BBC policy not to name suspects in a murder investigation prior to charges being levelled' then fine, but to say it's because their website can be accessed in Germany doesn't make much sense when the guy's name can be accessed in Germany on pretty much ANY world news website.

I do wonder whether the fact the guy's name has so easily been made available implies that there's a great deal of confidence about a conviction here. Reading between the lines this development didn't just happen overnight. The amount of evidence gathered points to something that's been building for a few months or even years.

[CropleyWasGod]

I was meaning more that the reason the BBC gave seemed a bit silly. If they'd said something like 'it is BBC policy not to name suspects in a murder investigation prior to charges being levelled' then fine, but to say it's because their website can be accessed in Germany doesn't make much sense when the guy's name can be accessed in Germany on pretty much ANY world news website.

I do wonder whether the fact the guy's name has so easily been made available implies that there's a great deal of confidence about a conviction here. Reading between the lines this development didn't just happen overnight. The amount of evidence gathered points to something that's been building for a few months or even years.

I get that about their reasoning; it does seem a bit wacky, but they're probably covering their *****.

On your second point, my answer would be "so ****ing what?" :greengrin It wouldn't be the first time there's been a slam-dunk of a case, only for it to fail at the important hurdle, ie the Courts.

[JeMeSouviens]

For me, the BBC approach is the correct one. IMO no-one accused of such horrific crimes should have their identity revealed prior to conviction.

The others, to me, are irresponsible and click-baiting.

In general, I completely agree. Although this guy is a convicted racist and paedophile, so it's not such a concern in this specific case.

[CropleyWasGod]

In general, I completely agree. Although this guy is a convicted racist and paedophile, so it's not such a concern in this specific case.

I have to disagree. (soap-box mode here :greengrin)

It's an open door for a defence counsel to say "he's been judged in the court of public opinion because of what he's done before, therefore he can't get a fair trial here." And, in terms of this case, what else he's done is almost irrelevant; justice can only be served if he is tried on the facts of this case alone.

[Killiehibbie]

In general, I completely agree. Although this guy is a convicted racist and paedophile, so it's not such a concern in this specific case.

I reckon he's been on the suspect list for a long time.
Something has come to light that has led to him being the prime suspect.
He should not be named or previous convictions divulged until he has been tried and convicted.

[overdrive]

I reckon he's been on the suspect list for a long time.
Something has come to light that has led to him being the prime suspect.
He should not be named or previous convictions divulged until he has been tried and convicted.

I read an article earlier (not sure which site) that suggested he had bragged to a mate in the pub about abducting Madeleine McCann. I wonder if said ‘mate’ has now grassed on him. Not sure why now, given it will have been a while since he’s been in a pub.

[Hibrandenburg]

I reckon he's been on the suspect list for a long time.
Something has come to light that has led to him being the prime suspect.
He should not be named or previous convictions divulged until he has been tried and convicted.

German police said in a press statement that he was not on their radar for the Maddy case.

[JeMeSouviens]

I have to disagree. (soap-box mode here :greengrin)

It's an open door for a defence counsel to say "he's been judged in the court of public opinion because of what he's done before, therefore he can't get a fair trial here." And, in terms of this case, what else he's done is almost irrelevant; justice can only be served if he is tried on the facts of this case alone.

Yeah, fair point. I meant in terms of reputational damage. If he's going to get a fair trial we're going to need to send for Henry Fonda. :wink:

[Hibrandenburg]

I read an article earlier (not sure which site) that suggested he had bragged to a mate in the pub about abducting Madeleine McCann. I wonder if said ‘mate’ has now grassed on him. Not sure why now, given it will have been a while since he’s been in a pub.

I read that in a German language Swiss newspaper this morning. Apparently he showed his mate a rape video of a 70 year old as well. He then reported him to the police, but it's taken 3 years for this to surface.

[Killiehibbie]

German police said in a press statement that he was not on their radar for the Maddy case.

Maybe not on theirs but i read he was a known sex offender and was known at the time to be in the area, 1 of 600 people of interest. Which would've put him on the Portuguese shortlist unless they were even less thorough than I thought.

[G B Young]

I get that about their reasoning; it does seem a bit wacky, but they're probably covering their *****.

On your second point, my answer would be "so ****ing what?" :greengrin It wouldn't be the first time there's been a slam-dunk of a case, only for it to fail at the important hurdle, ie the Courts.

Very true. Hopefully that won't prove to be the case here. Some form of bona fide closure for the family would be very welcome.

[G B Young]

I read that in a German language Swiss newspaper this morning. Apparently he showed his mate a rape video of a 70 year old as well. He then reported him to the police, but it's taken 3 years for this to surface.

https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-christian-b-is-a-suspect-what-we-know-about-jailed-german-12000267

[G B Young]

I have to disagree. (soap-box mode here :greengrin)

It's an open door for a defence counsel to say "he's been judged in the court of public opinion because of what he's done before, therefore he can't get a fair trial here." And, in terms of this case, what else he's done is almost irrelevant; justice can only be served if he is tried on the facts of this case alone.

Now being reported he's also under investigation for the disappearance of a German girl.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52935728

Sounds like this has the makings of a Robert Black type case.

[Bristolhibby]

For me, the BBC approach is the correct one. IMO no-one accused of such horrific crimes should have their identity revealed prior to conviction.

The others, to me, are irresponsible and click-baiting.

I suppose. But the guys on a beast wing in a German prison. It’s not like his good name is being besmirched.

J

[Bristolhibby]

I have to disagree. (soap-box mode here :greengrin)

It's an open door for a defence counsel to say "he's been judged in the court of public opinion because of what he's done before, therefore he can't get a fair trial here." And, in terms of this case, what else he's done is almost irrelevant; justice can only be served if he is tried on the facts of this case alone.

By that rational being a serial kiddy fiddling beast is the perfect defence for being a serial kiddy fiddling beast.

I do take your point though. If he is “the man” then the authorities should do everything by the book and give them no chance for a defence lawyer to say he can’t get a trial.

J

[wpj]

If it's him then do what has to be done. If proved then he should spend the rest of his wretched life in jail and Madeleine's parents try to get on with their lives, absolutely no parents should lose their son or daughter, speaking as a dad I couldnt imagine it.

[lord bunberry]

I sometimes cringe when I think back about some of the things I said about the McCanns in the past. I found them difficult to warm to and I think my view was shaped by someone I knew who had worked with Gerry McCann and described him as arrogant and obnoxious. Maybe he is but what does it matter to me? I know it sounds cliche but I think becoming a parent has given me a bit of perspective. It's too easy to say 'I would never have done this, that or the other' but ALL parents make mistakes and all parents are judged on those mistakes by others. I still find it hard to conceive of leaving my child unattended for a prolonged period out of earshot and eyesight but from discussions I have had with other people it seems to be more common than I imagined. My own parental view is largely irrelevant anyway; the McCanns made a mistake. They have paid a terrible price for the decision they made that night and they have to reconcile that in their own heads every day. The McCanns personalities, warmth or lack thereof and media depiction is really of no importance at all. To some extent I think the McCanns were victims of an inverted snobbery of sorts. People seemed to really believe they would have been treated differently had they been poorer or less educated. I think it's an idea I floated myself on occasion. Even if there is some truth in that I don't know what problem it solves. Would their other children have been better served being removed from their parents? I think it's fair to argue that is doubtful. There was also the argument they used their connections to keep their daughters name in the papers and keep her case funded. So what? Who among us wouldn't do the same for our children?

Of course every single action in the lead up to whatever happened that night is relevant but the responsibility for what it appears has happened to that little girl lies solely with the perpetrator. If the Police have finally got their man I hope it brings the McCanns some peace and finally allows them the chance to grieve privately for their child.
I don’t think that there’s many of us who haven’t thought like that over the years. I always came down on the side of them not being responsible, the only reason I thought that was that they went to such extraordinary lengths to try keep the case in the public eye. That’s the only reason I thought they were innocent though as I also said many of the things you say in your post. Even now I still find it hard to warm to them or have sympathy. I don’t know what that says about me as a father but it’s the truth.

[Billy Whizz]

For me it’s such a sad story, and it looks like a wee girl has lost her life

[G B Young]

I reckon he's been on the suspect list for a long time.
Something has come to light that has led to him being the prime suspect.
He should not be named or previous convictions divulged until he has been tried and convicted.

Now being linked with the disappearance of a German boy in the 90s as well as the German girl already mentioned.

https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-german-police-investigating-suspect-over-third-missing-child-12001457

[matty_f]

I don’t think that there’s many of us who haven’t thought like that over the years. I always came down on the side of them not being responsible, the only reason I thought that was that they went to such extraordinary lengths to try keep the case in the public eye. That’s the only reason I thought they were innocent though as I also said many of the things you say in your post. Even now I still find it hard to warm to them or have sympathy. I don’t know what that says about me as a father but it’s the truth.

I've thought for long enough that the scenario where the McCanns were guilty of anything other than misjudgement was the least likely.

The police agencies have had access to them throughout and at some point over the years, something would have given, a piece of evidence, a confession from them or one of the party that they were with, a credible witness... something would have tripped them up.

And as you say, if they'd done it and knew for certain that she was dead, then they'd let the investigation die down eventually, knowing that the longer it's investigated the more chance they'd have have being caught.

I hope they get closure, I suspect those that had it pinned on them from the start will refuse to accept any conviction that isn't them, and the conspiracy theories will continue.

[CropleyWasGod]

German police now suggesting that they don't have sufficient evidence for a Court case.

BBC News - Madeleine McCann: New inquiry 'could be dropped' without clues from public
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52984306

[G B Young]

German police now suggesting that they don't have sufficient evidence for a Court case.

BBC News - Madeleine McCann: New inquiry 'could be dropped' without clues from public
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52984306

Sounds like they're very much of the opinion he's their man. Would be very disappointing if that's indeed the case but they can't get it to court.

[The 90+2]

Poor girl and very sad for her family. Years of guilt and not knowing what happened would probably kill me.

[CropleyWasGod]

Sounds like they're very much of the opinion he's their man. Would be very disappointing if that's indeed the case but they can't get it to court.

What's disappointing for me is the way this has been played out in the media. It feels like "we haven't got the proof, but we'll nail him for it anyway".

[DaveF]

What's disappointing for me is the way this has been played out in the media. It feels like "we haven't got the proof, but we'll nail him for it anyway".

I felt that way after watching the C4 documentary this week on the Falconio / Lee's outback case. Though, that is probably a thread on its own.

[G B Young]

What's disappointing for me is the way this has been played out in the media. It feels like "we haven't got the proof, but we'll nail him for it anyway".

Yeh, I take your point on that but I felt that by allowing this particular line of enquiry to become so public they must have felt they are frustratingly close to the final piece of evidence they require to nail him and were hoping the public appeal would provide them with that.

[HH81]

See they have been searching for a body in Germany.

Does anyone think she will ever be found?

[Sir David Gray]

See they have been searching for a body in Germany.

Does anyone think she will ever be found?

I didn't until this recent development. I have a feeling they have a solid lead.

Fingers crossed for her family that she is found and whoever was responsible is brought to justice.

[stokesmessiah]

See they have been searching for a body in Germany.

Does anyone think she will ever be found?

Been searching since Monday now. I had high hopes they were going to find her (sadly) but I thought we might of heard something by now?

[HH81]

Been searching since Monday now. I had high hopes they were going to find her (sadly) but I thought we might of heard something by now?

Seems they have stopped searching now. Guess we will find out soon.

[cabbageandribs1875]

'Distressing' burger van advert banned for making light of missing Madeleine McCann - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/distressing-burger-van-advert-banned-26751858)


A burger company has been banned for causing unjustified stress after using images of Madeleine McCann in a Mother's Day advert.
The ad for The Otley Burger Company's burger truck sparked fury as complaints were lodged with watchdogs after it was posted on Facebook (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/facebook), Instagram (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/instagram) and Twitter (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/twitter) last month.



It asked "Burgers for dinner?", with a picture of Madeleine and mum Kate.
The rest of the "offensive" text read: "With burgers this good, you'll leave your kids alone. What's the worst that could happen. Happy Mother's Day to all the mums out there."


what an offensive fud, but no doubt it will have gained him the publicity he wanted

[Jones28]

'Distressing' burger van advert banned for making light of missing Madeleine McCann - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/distressing-burger-van-advert-banned-26751858)


A burger company has been banned for causing unjustified stress after using images of Madeleine McCann in a Mother's Day advert.
The ad for The Otley Burger Company's burger truck sparked fury as complaints were lodged with watchdogs after it was posted on Facebook (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/facebook), Instagram (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/instagram) and Twitter (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/twitter) last month.

It asked "Burgers for dinner?", with a picture of Madeleine and mum Kate.
The rest of the "offensive" text read: "With burgers this good, you'll leave your kids alone. What's the worst that could happen. Happy Mother's Day to all the mums out there."


what an offensive fud, but no doubt it will have gained him the publicity he wanted

What ****ing planet was this guy on?

[Kato]

The planet where jokes and likes about missing children has been normalised.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

What ****ing planet was this guy on?



he's got all that publicity without even having to pay Saatchi and Saatchi for the 'shock' factor

[McD]

'Distressing' burger van advert banned for making light of missing Madeleine McCann - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/distressing-burger-van-advert-banned-26751858)


A burger company has been banned for causing unjustified stress after using images of Madeleine McCann in a Mother's Day advert.
The ad for The Otley Burger Company's burger truck sparked fury as complaints were lodged with watchdogs after it was posted on Facebook (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/facebook), Instagram (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/instagram) and Twitter (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/twitter) last month.

It asked "Burgers for dinner?", with a picture of Madeleine and mum Kate.
The rest of the "offensive" text read: "With burgers this good, you'll leave your kids alone. What's the worst that could happen. Happy Mother's Day to all the mums out there."


what an offensive fud, but no doubt it will have gained him the publicity he wanted


thats absolutely despicable

[He's here!]

Police have now named a formal suspect in the case:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/21/madeleine-mccann-man-named-as-formal-suspect-by-portuguese-authorities

[JeMeSouviens]

Police have now named a formal suspect in the case:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/21/madeleine-mccann-man-named-as-formal-suspect-by-portuguese-authorities

It's the guy they already named in jail in Germany isn't it? I think the "formal suspect" bit means they've actually started questioning him.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's the guy they already named in jail in Germany isn't it? I think the "formal suspect" bit means they've actually started questioning him.

Germany had made him the main suspect last year, but Portugal have just this week agreed and made him the main suspect too

[CropleyWasGod]

Germany had made him the main suspect last year, but Portugal have just this week agreed and made him the main suspect too

The deadline for naming a suspect in Portugal is next month. If they miss that, no-one can be charged. That has probably concentrated minds.

[He's here!]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-breakthrough-fibres-toddlers-pyjamas-suspects-van/

[Paul1642]

The deadline for naming a suspect in Portugal is next month. If they miss that, no-one can be charged. That has probably concentrated minds.

What a strange technicality.

[gbhibby]

Program on channel 5 this evening done by a detective who has had involvement in the case over a number of years. His conclusion was that there was not sufficient evidence at the moment to prosecute the German suspect. Poor Madeline. Have seen an interview with the McCanns which was analysed by experts and their conclusion was that the McCanns body language and the and language used by them
Led a few experts to say that they were hiding something and not telling the whole truth. At the end of the day responsible parents do not leave young children alone in a room, there was child minding service available on site.

[Jim44]

Program on channel 5 this evening done by a detective who has had involvement in the case over a number of years. His conclusion was that there was not sufficient evidence at the moment to prosecute the German suspect. Poor Madeline. Have seen an interview with the McCanns which was analysed by experts and their conclusion was that the McCanns body language and the and language used by them
Led a few experts to say that they were hiding something and not telling the whole truth. At the end of the day responsible parents do not leave young children alone in a room, there was child minding service available on site.

I looked at My5 and could only find a programme called ‘The Case Against Christian B’ . It didn’t contain any of the footage you talk about. Can you remember the name of the programme?

[Callum_62]

Program on channel 5 this evening done by a detective who has had involvement in the case over a number of years. His conclusion was that there was not sufficient evidence at the moment to prosecute the German suspect. Poor Madeline. Have seen an interview with the McCanns which was analysed by experts and their conclusion was that the McCanns body language and the and language used by them
Led a few experts to say that they were hiding something and not telling the whole truth. At the end of the day responsible parents do not leave young children alone in a room, there was child minding service available on site.I think leaving children wasn't that uncommon when I was younger certainly

My mum still says it's crazy to think back the the security guard at butlins used to do the rounds checking on the kids left in the chalets at night

They could see the apartment from where they were and done regular checks supposedly - I wouldn't do that with my child but I bet lots of parents have without the devestating consequences

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[gbhibby]

I looked at My5 and could only find a programme called ‘The Case Against Christian B’ . It didn’t contain any of the footage you talk about. Can you remember the name of the programme?
It was on late night about 4 years ago can't remember the title it was an American programme made by one of the lesser known tv companies.

[gbhibby]

I think leaving children wasn't that uncommon when I was younger certainly

My mum still says it's crazy to think back the the security guard at butlins used to do the rounds checking on the kids left in the chalets at night

They could see the apartment from where they were and done regular checks supposedly - I wouldn't do that with my child but I bet lots of parents have without the devestating consequences

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
One of the group only listened at the door when they were checking on the kids.Did Madeline not wake up the night before and was upset nobody was in the accommodation.

[gbhibby]

I looked at My5 and could only find a programme called ‘The Case Against Christian B’ . It didn’t contain any of the footage you talk about. Can you remember the name of the programme?
There are a number of these programmes on YouTube as well analysing their body language in interviews.

[He's here!]

Program on channel 5 this evening done by a detective who has had involvement in the case over a number of years. His conclusion was that there was not sufficient evidence at the moment to prosecute the German suspect. Poor Madeline. Have seen an interview with the McCanns which was analysed by experts and their conclusion was that the McCanns body language and the and language used by them
Led a few experts to say that they were hiding something and not telling the whole truth. At the end of the day responsible parents do not leave young children alone in a room, there was child minding service available on site.

The claims that they had anything to do with it really need to be knocked on the head. That such a thing could be 'covered up' by all those who were with the family that night is too ludicrous for words.

A tragic misjudgment is all they have ever been guilty of, with consequences which will haunt them until their dying day.

[Allant1981]

The claims that they had anything to do with it really need to be knocked on the head. That such a thing could be 'covered up' by all those who were with the family that night is too ludicrous for words.

A tragic misjudgment is all they have ever been guilty of, with consequences which will haunt them until their dying day.

Why all the unanswered questions from them, if they truly are innocent of any wrong doing then they should have been doing everything in their power to assist yet put up obstacles/barriers constantly

[gbhibby]

The claims that they had anything to do with it really need to be knocked on the head. That such a thing could be 'covered up' by all those who were with the family that night is too ludicrous for words.

A tragic misjudgment is all they have ever been guilty of, with consequences which will haunt them until their dying day.
I only mentioned it as that was the conclusion that some body language experts had reached analysing their interview's. There are still people who think the parents are guilty. We may never know who was responsible.

[He's here!]

Why all the unanswered questions from them, if they truly are innocent of any wrong doing then they should have been doing everything in their power to assist yet put up obstacles/barriers constantly

What constant obstacles/barriers?

[Allant1981]

What constant obstacles/barriers?

Constantly refusing to answer quenstions is prbably the biggest obstacle the police will ever come up against when trying to find out what happened

[Stairway 2 7]

There's a reason no court or serious police departments would use body language as evidence. Pseudoscience

[gbhibby]

There's a reason no court or serious police departments would use body language as evidence. Pseudoscience
Do the FBI not use it to assess suspects during interviews.

[JimBHibees]

The claims that they had anything to do with it really need to be knocked on the head. That such a thing could be 'covered up' by all those who were with the family that night is too ludicrous for words.

A tragic misjudgment is all they have ever been guilty of, with consequences which will haunt them until their dying day.

Completely agree if they genuinely had something to do with it there is imo no way on this earth they would have been able to keep us this pretence for so many years. Their relationship would imo have fallen apart in the meantime. Been treated badly by the police and the gutter press in this country.

[Mon Dieu4]

Do the FBI not use it to assess suspects during interviews.

They may well do but Stairway is right, body language isn't exactly a science and no one is getting convicted of it

I remember at work someone who read into it all saying that I was clearly guarded and not very open as I sit with my arms folded at times, I kindly advised them that was total pish as I'm an open book and I fold my arms because it's comfy

[gbhibby]

May not be an exact science but I am sure that the police here used it when Sky News interviewed Huntley about the Soham murders.

[Smartie]

They may well do but Stairway is right, body language isn't exactly a science and no one is getting convicted of it

I remember at work someone who read into it all saying that I was clearly guarded and not very open as I sit with my arms folded at times, I kindly advised them that was total pish as I'm an open book and I fold my arms because it's comfy

Nobody's going to get convicted off the back of it alone, but it might nudge the police towards searching a car boot or a hard drive and finding evidence that would convict.

[Allant1981]

Completely agree if they genuinely had something to do with it there is imo no way on this earth they would have been able to keep us this pretence for so many years. Their relationship would imo have fallen apart in the meantime. Been treated badly by the police and the gutter press in this country.

Badly treated? They left their 3 kids in a room with no supervision despite a nanny service being provided which has resulted in one of them being taken and likely to have been murdered, they have had it quite easy from the press imo

[Pretty Boy]

Badly treated? They left their 3 kids in a room with no supervision despite a nanny service being provided which has resulted in one of them being taken and likely to have been murdered, they have had it quite easy from the press imo

They have paid a hell of a price for their mistake though, probably the ultimate price any of us as parents could pay.

I don't really get what they were thinking. When I went on family holidays as a child it was exactly that, a family holiday. We spent the day together, we ate together and if my parents wanted a drink at night (which was more often than not and I don't blame them) then my sister and I would be with them. There are a load of family photos of the 2 of us asleep in buggies alongside our parents friends kids all over Europe whilst our parents enjoyed a drink or 5. As a parent myself now I feel the same. The concept of leaving my 2 in an apartment (with or without a babysitter) is alien to me. When we go on a family holiday then it is to spend time as a family. However I posted similar on another thread on here, it may even be earlier on this one, and it seems for a lot of people leaving kids alone on holiday isn't, or certainly wasn't, all that uncommon or unacceptable. I still don't get it but evidently it was more than just the McCanns who did it, including the family friends they were with on that holiday.

I get why people would feel they had been selfish or irresponsible, they arguably were. As I said though they have paid for it with interest. I'm not sure a hounding from the press or losing their other kids into care or whatever really achieves anything. They'll live with their decision for the rest of their lives which is quite the punishment.

[Since90+2]

They should never have left the kids alone but I just don't believe they had anything to do with her disappearance. I'm sure they'll regret the decision to leave her for the rest of their lives, they will forever be in a prison inside their heads for that decision.

[gbhibby]

They have paid a hell of a price for their mistake though, probably the ultimate price any of us as parents could pay.

I don't really get what they were thinking. When I went on family holidays as a child it was exactly that, a family holiday. We spent the day together, we ate together and if my parents wanted a drink at night (which was more often than not and I don't blame them) then my sister and I would be with them. There are a load of family photos of the 2 of us asleep in buggies alongside our parents friends kids all over Europe whilst our parents enjoyed a drink or 5. As a parent myself now I feel the same. The concept of leaving my 2 in an apartment (with or without a babysitter) is alien to me. When we go on a family holiday then it is to spend time as a family. However I posted similar on another thread on here, it may even be earlier on this one, and it seems for a lot of people leaving kids alone on holiday isn't, or certainly wasn't, all that uncommon or unacceptable. I still don't get it but evidently it was than just the McCanns who did it, including the family friends they were with on that holiday.

I get why people would feel they had been selfish or irresponsible, they arguably were. As I said though they have paid for it with interest. I'm not sure a hounding from the press or losing their other kids into care or whatever really achieves anything. They'll live with their decision for the rest of their lives which is quite the punishment.
Good post pretty boy. There have been comments made about the McCanns that because they are Doctors they have received better treatment from press and authorities. Like you Pretty Boy it would never enter my mind to leave my children alone in a room.

[stu in nottingham]

They may well do but Stairway is right, body language isn't exactly a science and no one is getting convicted of it

I remember at work someone who read into it all saying that I was clearly guarded and not very open as I sit with my arms folded at times, I kindly advised them that was total pish as I'm an open book and I fold my arms because it's comfy

Forensic psychology is a science and uses language (verbal cues), facial expressions and body language to determine deception. It can and does lead to convictions. In addition, a good lawyer or an experienced judge will be skilled in assessing body language relatiing to conversations and situations.That's without considering a jury and how they may form opinions based on what they see and how the words are delivered in the courtroom, influencing outcomes

[Since90+2]

Forensic psychology is a science and uses language (verbal cues), facial expressions and body language to determine deception. It can and does lead to convictions. In addition, a good lawyer or an experienced judge will be skilled in assessing body language relatiing to conversations and situations.That's without considering a jury and how they may form opinions based on what they see and how the words are delivered in the courtroom, influencing outcomes



Body language assessment does not lead to convictions, not without substantial supportive evidence.

In itself, which in this case seems to be the only thing to be used against the McCanns, it means absolutely nothing.

[stu in nottingham]

Body language assessment does not lead to convictions, not without substantial supportive evidence.

In itself, which in this case seems to be the only thing to be used against the McCanns, it means absolutely nothing.

We'll agree to disagree. Yes it does. Not as evidence but in assessing witnesses.

[Allant1981]

They have paid a hell of a price for their mistake though, probably the ultimate price any of us as parents could pay.

I don't really get what they were thinking. When I went on family holidays as a child it was exactly that, a family holiday. We spent the day together, we ate together and if my parents wanted a drink at night (which was more often than not and I don't blame them) then my sister and I would be with them. There are a load of family photos of the 2 of us asleep in buggies alongside our parents friends kids all over Europe whilst our parents enjoyed a drink or 5. As a parent myself now I feel the same. The concept of leaving my 2 in an apartment (with or without a babysitter) is alien to me. When we go on a family holiday then it is to spend time as a family. However I posted similar on another thread on here, it may even be earlier on this one, and it seems for a lot of people leaving kids alone on holiday isn't, or certainly wasn't, all that uncommon or unacceptable. I still don't get it but evidently it was more than just the McCanns who did it, including the family friends they were with on that holiday.

I get why people would feel they had been selfish or irresponsible, they arguably were. As I said though they have paid for it with interest. I'm not sure a hounding from the press or losing their other kids into care or whatever really achieves anything. They'll live with their decision for the rest of their lives which is quite the punishment.

Of course they have paid the ultimate price and i dont think unless any of us have been in that situation we can quite understand how we would deal with it but to not help or answer questions for the police is not normal. I would he doing everything in my power to help/assist, im guessing you would be the same.

[Bristolhibby]

Constantly refusing to answer quenstions is prbably the biggest obstacle the police will ever come up against when trying to find out what happened

I’m sure their legal advisors have told them what and what not to say.

Their job is to protect their client, at one point they were the official suspects. And many an innocent person has done serious jail time for something they didn’t do. If I remember correctly, lawyers always advise silence until they are there to advise, then act on their advise.

I genuinely feel they were nothing more than slack and that lead to the disappearance and likely the murder of their daughter. It’s likely they will never find out what happened to her and will never get “closure”.

I’m sure they'd do anything to get her back, but doing time in a Portuguese jail for something they didn’t do, ain’t going to be the best thing to look after their remaining kids.

J

[Since90+2]

We'll agree to disagree. Yes it does. Not as evidence but in assessing witnesses.

Sorry, but that's not correct at all, if you are claiming it can lead to convictions (as per your previous post).

Body language will be assessed by police when interrogating a suspect, but body language in itself would not get anywhere near the required freshold to even make it to trial let alone convict someone.

People are not convicted on the basis of body language. They are convicted on the basis of quantifiable evidence.

[stu in nottingham]

Sorry, but that's not correct at all, if you are claiming it can lead to convictions (as per your previous post).

Body language will be assessed by police when interrogating a suspect, but body language in itself would not get anywhere near the required freshold to even make it to trial let alone convict someone.

People are not convicted on the basis of body language. They are convicted on the basis of quantifiable evidence.

I don't diagree with anything you're saying there. I think we are talking at different tangents.

[Since90+2]

I don't diagree with anything you're saying there. I think we are talking at different tangents.

No worries.

[Stairway 2 7]

The top online body experts aren't trained. The only forces that use it are those that want confirmation bias. It's like toothmark evidence being used in some courts in America. It's utter nonsense. It's not being used to get a conviction. Good article here on the quackery

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/youtube-body-language/amp

Pseudoscience
https://therewiredsoul.medium.com/the-pseudoscience-of-body-language-explained-ba5ee913637

Pseudoscience like polygraph. The channel 4 show on Jeremy Kyle, showed up lie detectors for what they are, about 60% accurate. Yes fbi and dodgy police use lie detectors to get the win

[stu in nottingham]

No worries.

:aok:

[Allant1981]

I’m sure their legal advisors have told them what and what not to say.

Their job is to protect their client, at one point they were the official suspects. And many an innocent person has done serious jail time for something they didn’t do. If I remember correctly, lawyers always advise silence until they are there to advise, then act on their advise.

I genuinely feel they were nothing more than slack and that lead to the disappearance and likely the murder of their daughter. It’s likely they will never find out what happened to her and will never get “closure”.

I’m sure they'd do anything to get her back, but doing time in a Portuguese jail for something they didn’t do, ain’t going to be the best thing to look after their remaining kids.

J

Yip most likely their lawyers have told them what to say but again if youre daughter has just went missing why on earth would you refuse to answer questions, if i remember correctly it was almost every single question they were asked and yes i appreciate people have went to prison despite being innocent but would that even cross your mind if you were trying to get your kid back? Again none of us will ever know(hopefully) what its like to be in that situation but i feel they let themselves down big time

[Stairway 2 7]

I don't think they did it from the evidence that is there. It seemed an unbelievably botched police case. I think they were happy to finger the mccans as it put pressure of them.

You have to believe that parents who yes were daft but seemingly brought their kids well. Killed or found their child dead. Instead of panicking screaming and getting their friends help, thought let's hide and cover this up.

The more likely is some evil b did it, as the Germans seem to think.

Yes they were stupid, but if they didn't do it they have paid an unimaginable price. High and mighty people can do one looking down on them

[gbhibby]

I don't think they did it from the evidence that is there. It seemed an unbelievably botched police case. I think they were happy to finger the mccans as it put pressure of them.

You have to believe that parents who yes were daft but seemingly brought their kids well. Killed or found their child dead. Instead of panicking screaming and getting their friends help, thought let's hide and cover this up.

The more likely is some evil b did it, as the Germans seem to think.

Yes they were stupid, but if they didn't do it they have paid an unimaginable price. High and mighty people can do one looking down on them
I think this will end up as an unsolved case as there does not seem to be enough evidence to charge anyone. There are questions about a number of people including the parents
I am sure the parents will want some closure on this but may never get that. Don't think people are being high and mighty looking down on them on the decision they took that night. They have to live with that. I am not being high and mighty saying that I would never have left my children alone in a room as I regard myself and others on here who have posted the same as responsible parents.

[JimBHibees]

Badly treated? They left their 3 kids in a room with no supervision despite a nanny service being provided which has resulted in one of them being taken and likely to have been murdered, they have had it quite easy from the press imo

Yes they were wrong to do what they did however personally don't think they had anything to do with the kids disappearance and the gutter press whispering campaign has been awful. They were suspected of involvement by the Portuguese police of course they would be very careful what they said from then onwards.