Being a landlord

[AgentDaleCooper]

This is probably going to offend some people, but I've been thinking recently about this question - is being a landlord a legitimate way to earn a living? It contributes absolutely nothing to society, drives up housing prices and is basically a means of making other people buy you a house, unless you have payed off your mortgage, in which case you are basically just taking other people's money because you can.

renting from the council is a different matter, and i also understand that some people are in positions where they need extra income for various reasons, i'm not saying that all landlords are bad people - rather, some of them are basically good people being forced to do something harmful to society because of their circumstances (a bit like how some drug dealers start out...), while people who own massive portfolios of real estate are just economic parasites...again, not necessarily bad people, just with some seriously warped views.

[Hibby Bairn]

This is probably going to offend some people, but I've been thinking recently about this question - is being a landlord a legitimate way to earn a living? It contributes absolutely nothing to society, drives up housing prices and is basically a means of making other people buy you a house, unless you have payed off your mortgage, in which case you are basically just taking other people's money because you can.

renting from the council is a different matter, and i also understand that some people are in positions where they need extra income for various reasons, i'm not saying that all landlords are bad people - rather, some of them are basically good people being forced to do something harmful to society because of their circumstances (a bit like how some drug dealers start out...), while people who own massive portfolios of real estate are just economic parasites...again, not necessarily bad people, just with some seriously warped views.

There’s a few very tenuous arguments in there 😃.

There is social value in helping people to rent property who otherwise couldn’t afford to buy one. Now 20 or so years ago that tended to be a relatively short stop gap for younger people before they could save a deposit for a mortgage.

But that gap is now longer and in many cases it is never filled. That’s when it becomes a problem as those with capital acquire more property (to rent out) pushing up prices and ever more increasing the affordability gap for people whose incomes never keep pace.

My own view is that there should be a cap on ownership although taxes are now in place to dissuade it for small scale investors. Probably doesn’t put off the very wealthy portfolio investors though.

[Mon Dieu4]

the amount you can earn is seriously mental, the house above me is rented for over double the amount of my monthly mortgage payments and doesn't even have a garden that I do, if you are in a position to do it then I would, you don't need to justify yourself to anyone as long as you are happy, I think governments should bring in rent control and build more social housing but it's not your fault they aren't doing it

Always maintain that when it comes to me potentially renting out my house I will do it to one of my pals and only make sure my mortgage is covered, not looking to make any money off it

[Andy Bee]

I'm comfortable it's legitimate, I've taken time and money to bring property up to a standard that I'd be comfortable living in. I've made sure all safety requirements are met, the property is in good repair and I've upgraded to the most economical and level of energy efficiency I could afford, I charge what the market suggests just like any other business in this country. I've simply taken pride in renting something out that I think the tenants are comfortable and safe living in and if I can generate income from that then all the better.

[Scouse Hibee]

This is probably going to offend some people, but I've been thinking recently about this question - is being a landlord a legitimate way to earn a living? It contributes absolutely nothing to society, drives up housing prices and is basically a means of making other people buy you a house, unless you have payed off your mortgage, in which case you are basically just taking other people's money because you can.

renting from the council is a different matter, and i also understand that some people are in positions where they need extra income for various reasons, i'm not saying that all landlords are bad people - rather, some of them are basically good people being forced to do something harmful to society because of their circumstances (a bit like how some drug dealers start out...), while people who own massive portfolios of real estate are just economic parasites...again, not necessarily bad people, just with some seriously warped views.

Absolutely no problem with it myself, it makes great money and provides a family with a house to live in an area they may have never afforded to buy.

[calumhibee1]

I would find it hard to argue/disagree with any of what you said.. but at the same time I agree with absolutely none of it if that makes sense? :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

There's also the contribution that some owners make to solving social problems, in that they provide accommodation to people who are struggling. That's particularly valid just now.

[H18 SFR]

I rented out a property for a few years during the banking crash as I didn’t want to sell at that time. Made an absolute fortune. Which I’d never sold it.

[Peevemor]

I have a pal who owns (or at least has loans on) a load of flats in Glasgow (mostly West end). His tenants are either students or young professionals. I've been with him a few times when he's been dealing with tenants (wee problems - leaky washing machine, knackered door entry, that sort of stuff) and he gets on great with them from what I've seen.

He makes good money now and will end up minted if and when he cashes in but he works hard and he looks after his tenants so it's difficult to grudge him anything.

[AgentDaleCooper]

There’s a few very tenuous arguments in there 😃.

Enlighten me!



There is social value in helping people to rent property who otherwise couldn’t afford to buy one. Now 20 or so years ago that tended to be a relatively short stop gap for younger people before they could save a deposit for a mortgage.

I really don't buy that - it's something that could be easily done by the state, and without the ridiculous profits (just to clarify - profits should include money paid towards the mortgage, because over time, the tenants of a property have essentially bought it for the landlord - if coming to own a house outright doesn't count as profit, what does?!). Austria has some amazing social housing that goes far beyond what our country deems to be its responsibilities.



But that gap is now longer and in many cases it is never filled. That’s when it becomes a problem as those with capital acquire more property (to rent out) pushing up prices and ever more increasing the affordability gap for people whose incomes never keep pace.

Exactly - IMO, this is an inevitable outcome in our current system.



My own view is that there should be a cap on ownership although taxes are now in place to dissuade it for small scale investors. Probably doesn’t put off the very wealthy portfolio investors though.

In the long term, it's the wealthy portfolio investors who will win. A cap on ownership seems sensible to me as well, as well as the right to buy being extended to private lettings (though i'm sure landlords wouldn't be best pleased!).

[AgentDaleCooper]

Absolutely no problem with it myself, it makes great money and provides a family with a house to live in an area they may have never afforded to buy.

yes...because all the houses are being rented!!! :wink:

[AgentDaleCooper]

I'm comfortable it's legitimate, I've taken time and money to bring property up to a standard that I'd be comfortable living in. I've made sure all safety requirements are met, the property is in good repair and I've upgraded to the most economical and level of energy efficiency I could afford, I charge what the market suggests just like any other business in this country. I've simply taken pride in renting something out that I think the tenants are comfortable and safe living in and if I can generate income from that then all the better.

sorry if this comes across as personal, it's not meant to at all, just honest debate :aok:

what you have described is essentially your job as a landlord - so well done for not being a barsteward! - but it's nothing less than someone should expect, really, given what they are paying and what you are getting in return for that.

the last sentence - it seems like you are suggesting that you took it upon yourself to become a landlord out of benevolence, and that any money you made out of it was a happy accident...i'm not sure i buy that! i think you're probably just a good natured person (unlike many landlords!) who has good standards for others too, but whose morality is very much shaped by the capitalist paradigm of thinking...which may well be a compliment as far as you are concerned! (i'm not meaning it as an insult, just a description!) What i'm specifically referring to is the comment about charging what the market suggests, as i think taking one's sense of decency from the markets is what has gotten society into the messy state it's in now!

[Scouse Hibee]

yes...because all the uses are being rented!!! :wink:

No, not really,

[Speedy]

Couple of things to consider...

If done properly then landlords will be paying a large chunk of income tax on their property which will therefore be contributing to the state.

Buying houses can be more expensive than renting, so having a good supply of quality accomodation suits people like contract workers or students who would lose out otherwise.

[easty]

I’d love to keep the flat I’m in now, take out some equity, buy something else, and rent this one out.

It’s not going to happen though. It’d cost me about £12k extra in land and buildings transaction tax for a second dwelling. Long term probably worth it. Short term cannae possibly afford that.

Seems like it’s a tax to make sure it’s only the rich who can buy multiple homes.

[Jones28]

There are ways and means of doing things, you can choose to be a good landlord or choose to be a **** one.

I’ve rented 3 flats/houses and have been fortunate to have good landlords at all of them.

My brother has rented 2 flats as a student and has had awful landlords at both of them. Seriously poor standards of decoration, awful kitchens and bathrooms, poorly secured main doors etc etc.

I would say that the ones doing a good job and are providing housing for families that is to a good standards and are quick to resolve issues have nothing to feel sorry for.

The unscrupulous ones who take advantage of people who are desperate should be more highly scrutinised.

I’m not a landlord - although it is a plan for the future - but is there some sort of license you have to have? That could be revoked by local authorities?

[lapsedhibee]

I’m not a landlord - although it is a plan for the future - but is there some sort of license you have to have? That could be revoked by local authorities?
https://www.ros.gov.uk/our-registers/scottish-landlord-register

[Andy Bee]

There are ways and means of doing things, you can choose to be a good landlord or choose to be a **** one.

I’ve rented 3 flats/houses and have been fortunate to have good landlords at all of them.

My brother has rented 2 flats as a student and has had awful landlords at both of them. Seriously poor standards of decoration, awful kitchens and bathrooms, poorly secured main doors etc etc.

I would say that the ones doing a good job and are providing housing for families that is to a good standards and are quick to resolve issues have nothing to feel sorry for.

The unscrupulous ones who take advantage of people who are desperate should be more highly scrutinised.

I’m not a landlord - although it is a plan for the future - but is there some sort of license you have to have? That could be revoked by local authorities?


Yes, you have to be on the landlords register to rent out legally.

[Jones28]

Thanks guys. So you could revoke licenses, imo the two flats I mentioned my brother has rented should be cited for the flats being absolutely disgusting.

[Ozyhibby]

Where to start on this thread? Full disclosure, I am a landlord and it’s my main source of income.
First of all the state are terrible landlords. They can only provide what people need, not what people want. I used to work in social housing doing maintenance and I can confirm that although they were good landlords, the quality of their houses were terrible. This is not their fault. They would regularly change kitchens and bathrooms for tenants and do any repairs that were required but the quality of the materials used was always the cheapest possible. They would fit complete kitchens that cost £300 to buy. They had to because every penny was a prisoner and how can you justify a £10k kitchen in social housing? The minute they spent a penny more than was necessary for basic living standards people would complain that the money could be better spent elsewhere. How can they give a person granite worktops when the NHS is facing cutbacks etc. So the state only provide the very basics.
The properties I rent out are complete luxury in comparison. I don’t have a single kitchen more than 10 year old and the bathrooms are newer. They are all repainted every time a tenant changes and I generally take great pride in each and every house. Over and above that I organise any shared repairs in any flats and make sure the stair is well maintained. Any properties with gardens are maintained by me because otherwise it may not get done.
I look after my tenants (some of them are on reduced rents just now) and they all seem happy enough although I’m sure, just like on here, some have worked out I’m a bit of a dick.
Do I do this because in socially concerned citizen who just wants to help his fellow man? Do I ****. I do it because I want to provide for myself and my family. I want to one day have a comfortable retirement and do a bit of travelling with Mrs. Ozyhibby. The reason I keep my properties in good condition is that I think it makes good business sense. The reason I treat my tenants fairly is I think it makes good business sense. I do this because I want to make money. As much as I can preferably. Even when I do things above and beyond to help my tenants which doesn’t necessarily help the business, I do it for selfish reasons in that it makes me feel good about myself.
And another thing is, I’m not rich at all. In fact I’m skint most of the time. I drive a bog standard family car and live in a nice but not extravagant family home. Some of the bull crap written about landlords annoys me. In my own house just now I have had a leaky shower and I’m waiting for all this to be over before I can fix it as I’m worried about cash flow. In the meantime I have carried out repairs on a bathroom in a flat. It’s not easy explaining to Mrs. Ozyhibby why I’m spending money fixing someone else’s bathroom and not ours. So if anyone thinks going into property will make you loaded then you might be surprised how long it takes and at some of the work involved. I’ve been doing it 16 years, but only full time for 4 and I can guarantee it’s not easy money.
Now I’m sure there will be stories about other landlords who are terrible but that is the same in every sector. There are terrible restaurants and terrible pubs. Stay away from those ones.
Sorry for the rant but it pee’s me off when people go on about landlords as if we are all absolute ****bags who only take from society. I personally think there is great social value in providing people with good quality homes to live in. We have a housing shortage in this country right now and it seems the people who everyone wants to blame is the people who actually provide homes which seems strange to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AgentDaleCooper]

Where to start on this thread? Full disclosure, I am a landlord and it’s my main source of income.
First of all the state are terrible landlords. They can only provide what people need, not what people want. I used to work in social housing doing maintenance and I can confirm that although they were good landlords, the quality of their houses were terrible. This is not their fault. They would regularly change kitchens and bathrooms for tenants and do any repairs that were required but the quality of the materials used was always the cheapest possible. They would fit complete kitchens that cost £300 to buy. They had to because every penny was a prisoner and how can you justify a £10k kitchen in social housing? The minute they spent a penny more than was necessary for basic living standards people would complain that the money could be better spent elsewhere. How can they give a person granite worktops when the NHS is facing cutbacks etc. So the state only provide the very basics.
The properties I rent out are complete luxury in comparison. I don’t have a single kitchen more than 10 year old and the bathrooms are newer. They are all repainted every time a tenant changes and I generally take great pride in each and every house. Over and above that I organise any shared repairs in any flats and make sure the stair is well maintained. Any properties with gardens are maintained by me because otherwise it may not get done.
I look after my tenants (some of them are on reduced rents just now) and they all seem happy enough although I’m sure, just like on here, some have worked out I’m a bit of a dick.
Do I do this because in socially concerned citizen who just wants to help his fellow man? Do I ****. I do it because I want to provide for myself and my family. I want to one day have a comfortable retirement and do a bit of travelling with Mrs. Ozyhibby. The reason I keep my properties in good condition is that I think it makes good business sense. The reason I treat my tenants fairly is I think it makes good business sense. I do this because I want to make money. As much as I can preferably. Even when I do things above and beyond to help my tenants which doesn’t necessarily help the business, I do it for selfish reasons in that it makes me feel good about myself.
And another thing is, I’m not rich at all. In fact I’m skint most of the time. I drive a bog standard family car and live in a nice but not extravagant family home. Some of the bull crap written about landlords annoys me. In my own house just now I have had a leaky shower and I’m waiting for all this to be over before I can fix it as I’m worried about cash flow. In the meantime I have carried out repairs on a bathroom in a flat. It’s not easy explaining to Mrs. Ozyhibby why I’m spending money fixing someone else’s bathroom and not ours. So if anyone thinks going into property will make you loaded then you might be surprised how long it takes and at some of the work involved. I’ve been doing it 16 years, but only full time for 4 and I can guarantee it’s not easy money.
Now I’m sure there will be stories about other landlords who are terrible but that is the same in every sector. There are terrible restaurants and terrible pubs. Stay away from those ones.
Sorry for the rant but it pee’s me off when people go on about landlords as if we are all absolute ****bags who only take from society. I personally think there is great social value in providing people with good quality homes to live in. We have a housing shortage in this country right now and it seems the people who everyone wants to blame is the people who actually provide homes which seems strange to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

thanks, that's a genuinely informative response to what i totally understand is quite an antagonising OP :aok:

as i tried to make clear in my first post, i'm certainly not saying all landlords are bad people.

I totally get that in this country the state is a pretty crappy landlord, for the reasons you give and more. I just don't think that has to be the case, it's very much a product of british capitalism - much like the NHS, housing is underfunded which makes the private alternatives look 'more efficient' and providing better services, when this is far guaranteed. As I said before, council housing in Austria is fantastic, and I'm sure it's not the only country.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6DBKoWbtjE

[stuart-farquhar]

thanks, that's a genuinely informative response to what i totally understand is quite an antagonising OP :aok:

as i tried to make clear in my first post, i'm certainly not saying all landlords are bad people.

I totally get that in this country the state is a pretty crappy landlord, for the reasons you give and more. I just don't think that has to be the case, it's very much a product of british capitalism - much like the NHS, housing is underfunded which makes the private alternatives look 'more efficient' and providing better services, when this is far guaranteed. As I said before, council housing in Austria is fantastic, and I'm sure it's not the only country.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6DBKoWbtjE

That's it in a nutshell. Private rented needed because state provision is underfunded.

[Ozyhibby]

thanks, that's a genuinely informative response to what i totally understand is quite an antagonising OP :aok:

as i tried to make clear in my first post, i'm certainly not saying all landlords are bad people.

I totally get that in this country the state is a pretty crappy landlord, for the reasons you give and more. I just don't think that has to be the case, it's very much a product of british capitalism - much like the NHS, housing is underfunded which makes the private alternatives look 'more efficient' and providing better services, when this is far guaranteed. As I said before, council housing in Austria is fantastic, and I'm sure it's not the only country.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6DBKoWbtjE

Interesting video and I totally agree. A good example of what could be done here would be Martello Court in Muirhouse. If the council were serious about being a landlord (not sure how much of it they own) they would clear out the bottom two levels and instal a gym, squash court and pool with maybe a community meeting room as well. Refurbish the flats and suddenly you would have some of the most desirable properties in the city rather than the least (or nearly). It should be a great place to live with amazing views. The problem is, can you imagine the outcry if they said they were spending money on that? You could apply that to pretty much any tower block.
The problem is the council can’t even see the value in cutting the grass round there never mind something like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[easty]

Interesting video and I totally agree. A good example of what could be done here would be Martello Court in Muirhouse. If the council were serious about being a landlord (not sure how much of it they own) they would clear out the bottom two levels and instal a gym, squash court and pool with maybe a community meeting room as well. Refurbish the flats and suddenly you would have some of the most desirable properties in the city rather than the least (or nearly). It should be a great place to live with amazing views. The problem is, can you imagine the outcry if they said they were spending money on that? You could apply that to pretty much any tower block.
The problem is the council can’t even see the value in cutting the grass round there never mind something like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You couldn’t do anything to make those flats the most desirable in Edinburgh. Unless you can move then somewhere else.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Really interesting discussion. A good private rented sector is needed - providing for students, house movers etc. It's arguably too big now, having grown from around 5% - 15% of the market, especially given very few people aspire to live in the private rented sector. The economic argument against investment in housing is that as a fixed amenity asset, when a house doubles in price it isn't doubling in value. A 2 bed flat is still a 2 bed flat. However, on the other side of the coin, those buying and letting housing to build up a pension are less likely to rely on the state in retirement.

It was also mentioned above that we have a housing shortage. I disagree. We have around 2.6m houses and 5.4m people in Scotland. That doesn't suggest we have a shortage of houses, but that the houses we do have are in the wrong places. Large net migration into Edinburgh being a big factor in this.

Rent caps may sound good on paper, but I'm not sure they'd work in practice. Landlords who may not charge an annual increase, and only up costs when their costs rise (eg at end of fixed rate mortgage) will be more likely to put up prices by the cap limit each year to protect themselves from any future costs. I think a better way to control rents would be to focus on increasing the size / quality of the social rented sector to give people more options and reduce the demand for privately rented accommodation. I think people also need to be realistic in their aspirations. Many could afford to buy a place of their own by looking at a smaller first property, or a different area. Before buying my first flat I was renting a flat in Edinburgh. I'd have loved to stay in town, but I couldn't afford it and had to move out to Midlothian to get a foot on the ladder. I was happy making the compromise to own a property, rather than continue renting.

[neil7908]

I'm not a fan of landlords (I say this as someone who has rented until a few years ago and also was temporarily a landlord for about a year so I've experience with both sides of it).

My biggest problem is not individual landlords but the system they are working in whichever allows them to often make huge sums of money for doing very little, with seemingly no action taken for the bad ones.

I think feels like a a very unbalanced system. I would certainly be restricting the number of properties someone can own and police it much more strongly.

[silverhibee]

Interesting video and I totally agree. A good example of what could be done here would be Martello Court in Muirhouse. If the council were serious about being a landlord (not sure how much of it they own) they would clear out the bottom two levels and instal a gym, squash court and pool with maybe a community meeting room as well. Refurbish the flats and suddenly you would have some of the most desirable properties in the city rather than the least (or nearly). It should be a great place to live with amazing views. The problem is, can you imagine the outcry if they said they were spending money on that? You could apply that to pretty much any tower block.
The problem is the council can’t even see the value in cutting the grass round there never mind something like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought Martello was now bought properties, don't think the council has anything to do with it, it's an eyesore and should be knocked down with the other tower blocks in the area.

[Ozyhibby]

I thought Martello was now bought properties, don't think the council has anything to do with it, it's an eyesore and should be knocked down with the other tower blocks in the area.

It maybe is all private now, I just used it as an example. Tower blocks don’t have to be ugly and don’t have to be for low cost housing. There are plenty luxury ones out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not a fan of landlords (I say this as someone who has rented until a few years ago and also was temporarily a landlord for about a year so I've experience with both sides of it).

My biggest problem is not individual landlords but the system they are working in whichever allows them to often make huge sums of money for doing very little, with seemingly no action taken for the bad ones.

I think feels like a a very unbalanced system. I would certainly be restricting the number of properties someone can own and police it much more strongly.

Landlords can also lose a lot of money, and often have to lose money for a good few years before you are making money month to month. There are a lot of hidden costs in renting out a property if you are doing it properly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[H18 SFR]

Now that we are not moving house anymore having planned to, this thread has got me thinking maybe it might be worth while having another go at buying to let - the last time was very profitable and no hassle at all.

[edinburghhibee]

I’d love to keep the flat I’m in now, take out some equity, buy something else, and rent this one out.

It’s not going to happen though. It’d cost me about £12k extra in land and buildings transaction tax for a second dwelling. Long term probably worth it. Short term cannae possibly afford that.

Seems like it’s a tax to make sure it’s only the rich who can buy multiple homes.

This is exactly it. Spoke to a boy who owns loads of property in the highlands I asked him how he could afford the initial tax cost he said credit card the bill and he can pay the card back in 2-4 months.

Mental since he was talking about a £240k house


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pete]

This is probably going to offend some people, but I've been thinking recently about this question - is being a landlord a legitimate way to earn a living? It contributes absolutely nothing to society, drives up housing prices and is basically a means of making other people buy you a house, unless you have payed off your mortgage, in which case you are basically just taking other people's money because you can.

renting from the council is a different matter, and i also understand that some people are in positions where they need extra income for various reasons, i'm not saying that all landlords are bad people - rather, some of them are basically good people being forced to do something harmful to society because of their circumstances (a bit like how some drug dealers start out...), while people who own massive portfolios of real estate are just economic parasites...again, not necessarily bad people, just with some seriously warped views.

It's a complex situation and I'd say there has to be a mixture.

One thing there definitely has to be is a lot more social housing, with a more efficient maintenance system...in short it needs more funding.

I detest the comodification of what is a basic human need and I've yet to meet a landlord who says he isn't doing it for personal profit. However, can the state really meet everyone's needs in this modern age? Especially in the luxury sector.

There does need to be some intervention to drive prices down so people can afford property to live in and make investment seem less attractive. I'm not sure what form it would take though and someone will end up losing out, be it landlords, the environment etc...

Either way, it's a problem that needs solved as it's only getting worse. There are knock on effects in almost every area you can think of.

[Since90+2]

It's a complex situation and I'd say there has to be a mixture.

One thing there definitely has to be is a lot more social housing, with a more efficient maintenance system...in short it needs more funding.

I detest the comodification of what is a basic human need and I've yet to meet a landlord who says he isn't doing it for personal profit. However, can the state really meet everyone's needs in this modern age? Especially in the luxury sector.

There does need to be some intervention to drive prices down so people can afford property to live in and make investment seem less attractive. I'm not sure what form it would take though and someone will end up losing out, be it landlords, the environment etc...

Either way, it's a problem that needs solved as it's only getting worse. There are knock on effects in almost every area you can think of.

The landlords need to lose out and people on low to medium incomes need to be able to afford to buy their own homes. I know that's a simplistic way to look at it but it's simplest the fairest way.

[jonty]

It's a complex situation and I'd say there has to be a mixture.

One thing there definitely has to be is a lot more social housing, with a more efficient maintenance system...in short it needs more funding.

I detest the comodification of what is a basic human need and I've yet to meet a landlord who says he isn't doing it for personal profit. However, can the state really meet everyone's needs in this modern age? Especially in the luxury sector.

There does need to be some intervention to drive prices down so people can afford property to live in and make investment seem less attractive. I'm not sure what form it would take though and someone will end up losing out, be it landlords, the environment etc...

Either way, it's a problem that needs solved as it's only getting worse. There are knock on effects in almost every area you can think of.

Nice to meet you.
As a reluctant landlord I'd be quite happy to shift it for the money I've had the pay on it. quite frankly its a pain in the arse. I know of a few people in the same situation.
So if anyone is looking for a two bed in Dundee on the waterfront........

[Since90+2]

Nice to meet you.
As a reluctant landlord I'd be quite happy to shift it for the money I've had the pay on it. quite frankly its a pain in the arse. I know of a few people in the same situation.
So if anyone is looking for a two bed in Dundee on the waterfront........

Was your intention when you bought the property to make money off it? I think that's the point being made.

[jonty]

Was your intention when you bought the property to make money off it? I think that's the point being made.
No
I bought the property to work in the city. When i got married it was surplus but the market was non-existent. Hence "reluctant".
Unless there is no or little mortgage against them I cant see how much money can be made from them nowadays. Maybe i'm just doing it wrong. :greengrin:

[Pete]

No
I bought the property to work in the city. When i got married it was surplus but the market was non-existent. Hence "reluctant".
Unless there is no or little mortgage against them I cant see how much money can be made from them nowadays. Maybe i'm just doing it wrong. :greengrin:

Forgive me for asking but why did you have to buy a property to work in Dundee?

Was commuting not an option?

Edit: sorry I think I misread your post. I actually know people in similar situations who cant sell right now because they'd end up owing the bank money. Like I said, it's a complex situation

[Smartie]

The landlords need to lose out and people on low to medium incomes need to be able to afford to buy their own homes. I know that's a simplistic way to look at it but it's simplest the fairest way.

It would be great if wages could increase a bit across the board, so people didn't all feel the need to "get into property" to make a few quid to supplement their incomes.

I'm not against markets being as free as they cam be, but you have to recognise when they are getting to a point where that doesn't work any more - and I don't think the UK housing sector really is working any more. Edinburgh's certainly isn't.

That's not pointing any finger of blame at any landlord, it's more a criticism of a system that has been allowed to develop.

It's almost impossible to change or stop, as far as I can see. Who is going to vote for anyone who proposes moves that bring about a levelling of the property market when "I've worked hard to deserve what I've got, why should I..." etc etc etc

All I see is the richer get richer, the poorer get poorer, those who have property hang onto it and try to pass it onto their children and it just gets progressively worse. Nobody really wants it to change that much other than tenants who are getting fleeced, youngsters who cannot afford to get onto the property ladder - people who have no power and never will, until there's enough of them. Which will happen eventually.

[jonty]

Forgive me for asking but why did you have to buy a property to work in Dundee?

Was commuting not an option?

Edit: sorry I think I misread your post. I actually know people in similar situations who cant sell right now because they'd end up owing the bank money. Like I said, it's a complex situation

No, you're spot on - commuting from Edinburgh wasnt an option as I wouldn't get in early enough. And when living there it was an utter pain in the arse for getting to/from games on the train but thats another story :greengrin

But still a landlord, albeit extremely reluctant.
So if any parents are sending their kids to dundee/abertay/st andrews unis/colleges etc if you want to buy rather than rent - here's one I prepared earlier........ :greengrin

[jonty]

would the 100%/110% mortgages that used to be on offer help the situation for first or second time buyers? Or were they seen as a factor in the previous housing crashes?
It used to be the case that the deposit was the issue - most rent payments are greater than mortgage payments so affordability doesnt seem to be an issue?

[Andy Bee]

would the 100%/110% mortgages that used to be on offer help the situation for first or second time buyers? Or were they seen as a factor in the previous housing crashes?
It used to be the case that the deposit was the issue - most rent payments are greater than mortgage payments so affordability doesnt seem to be an issue?


They're few and far between now and you need a guarantor if you do find one but you'll pay for it. You can also get guarantor mortgages or family deposit mortgages where a family member will deposit 10 - 20% into a nominated account, still receive interest etc but be unable to withdraw for around 5 years at which time it's returned, if the mortgage is defaulted on the shortfall will come out the account to cover it.

[jonty]

They're few and far between now and you need a guarantor if you do find one but you'll pay for it. You can also get guarantor mortgages where a family member will deposit 10 - 20% into a nominated account, still receive interest etc but be unable to withdraw for around 5 years at which time it's returned, if the mortgage is defaulted on the shortfall will come out the account to cover it.

But if the banks were to reintroduce them would they be popular / no economic side-effects that werent manageable?

I'm not looking to blame the banks. I'd hazard a guess that the regulations imposed on them now by the govt make that type of lending less attractive/possible.

[Ozyhibby]

If you want to reduce house prices then you need to free up the planning system. It has forced all the small volume house builders out the market completely. On an average 3 bed house with a garden it accounts for about £120k of the cost of the house. The planning system works to restrict supply and in that respect it does a fantastic job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Andy Bee]

But if the banks were to reintroduce them would they be popular / no economic side-effects that werent manageable?

I'm not looking to blame the banks. I'd hazard a guess that the regulations imposed on them now by the govt make that type of lending less attractive/possible.

It wouldn't be viable would be my guess, with property values being more or less stagnant now or in some cases going down the banks couldn't justify 100% loans, they'd lose money if they had to repossess.

[McD]

No
I bought the property to work in the city. When i got married it was surplus but the market was non-existent. Hence "reluctant".
Unless there is no or little mortgage against them I cant see how much money can be made from them nowadays. Maybe i'm just doing it wrong. :greengrin:


I think there's a lot of factors.

Several years ago my wife and I looked into moving out of our then flat, as there was a lot of concerns about some of the neighbours (for example, drugs, knife fights in the street) and I worked a backshift meaning my wife would be in on her own during the evening. The flat was in a fairly attractive location, good school along the road, nearby shops and train station, and the estate/letting agent who came to see us about it reckoned she could nearly double what I paid on the mortgage, which would cover their fees for managing the property completely and pay a large chunk of whatever rent/mortgage we had in a new place.

I think from reading Ozy's posts on this earlier in the thread though, I generally agree with your point, and to be a decent landlord you're probably going to working your backside off, and paying out a far whack in maintaining stuff, and that's assuming that your tenants aren't morons who wreck the place.

[Pete]

If you want to reduce house prices then you need to free up the planning system. It has forced all the small volume house builders out the market completely. On an average 3 bed house with a garden it accounts for about £120k of the cost of the house. The planning system works to restrict supply and in that respect it does a fantastic job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've heard this a lot and it's true to an extent. However, will green space be reduced and the environment suffer as a result? Brown field sites can be prohibitive and costly to build on.

Another way to reduce prices is to reduce demand. I.e. limit the amount of properties one can own and discourage the use of property as way of making money. Different methods, same result, no?🤔

[Ozyhibby]

I've heard this a lot and it's true to an extent. However, will green space be reduced and the environment suffer as a result? Brown field sites can be prohibitive and costly to build on.

Another way to reduce prices is to reduce demand. I.e. limit the amount of properties one can own and discourage the use of property as way of making money. Different methods, same result, no?[emoji848]

Limiting the amount of properties a person owns doesn’t really reduce demand unless you mean empty properties?
If you mean properties that are rented out then they are being used to meet demand. So long as a property is being used then it doesn’t really matter what kind of tenure it is from that point of view.
Scotland is one of the least developed countries in Europe. We have lots of space to build more houses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibby Bairn]

Limiting the amount of properties a person owns doesn’t really reduce demand unless you mean empty properties?
If you mean properties that are rented out then they are being used to meet demand. So long as a property is being used then it doesn’t really matter what kind of tenure it is from that point of view.
Scotland is one of the least developed countries in Europe. We have lots of space to build more houses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve often thought that when coming back into Edinburgh on a flight.

[Peanut Shaz]

Any properties with gardens are maintained by me because otherwise it may not get done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can I ask you, if the tenants are not maintaining the garden and not engaging and it is now an eyesore, how do neighbours go about complaining to the landlord and getting it attended to?

[Ozyhibby]

Can I ask you, if the tenants are not maintaining the garden and not engaging and it is now an eyesore, how do neighbours go about complaining to the landlord and getting it attended to?

Contact the Landlord directly. Their details are held by the council.
Can’t guarantee they will do anything about it but if it was me I would want my property looked after. Anything that brings down the neighbourhood is bad for the landlord as well as everyone living there.
Most landlords only have one property and do it as a potential top up for their pension and would rather just let and forget but there is no harm reminding them that their property is falling into disrepair.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SideBurns]

Every time I see 'Being a landlord' it reminds me that the pubs are still shut. Any chance of changing the thread title for the benefit of those of us missing the boozer? 😁