Another black American killed by police.

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/26/george-floyd-killing-minneapolis-protest-police

[silverhibee]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/26/george-floyd-killing-minneapolis-protest-police

Riots on the streets, police coming under attack from crowds.

[Hibrandenburg]

Riots on the streets, police coming under attack from crowds.

The policeman was kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and you could hear him pleading with them that he couldn't breath. Utterly diabolical.

[silverhibee]

The policeman was kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and you could hear him pleading with them that he couldn't breath. Utterly diabolical.

Yip.

4 officers been sacked.

No charges brought against them. FBI investigating it.

[EH6 Hibby]

I read it was because he’d been reported by the store wrongly for writing a bad cheque. So hadn’t even done anything wrong, not that it should matter, just makes it even more infuriating.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/05/27/amy-cooper-franklin-templeton-fired-central-park-woman-video-dog/

This was pretty horrific with the intent and the potential of what could have happened

[Pretty Boy]

It's a scandal that this happens and justice rarely seems to be done. Couple it with what happened to Ahmaud Arbery only recently and it's a bleak picture.

Some people would rather demonise a group of athletes trying to draw attention to this kind of institutional and ingrained racism rather than actually acknowledging that it's a problem.

[Berwickhibby]

Makes me grateful that the police here, police by consent and firearm incidents are few and far between....would hate to see every officer routinely armed.....body cams are they way forward

[hibsbollah]

'When the looting starts, the shooting starts' tweets Trump. Twitter blocks the tweet as a possible incitement to violence. As Springsteen says, there are things happening in America today that I never thought id see again in my lifetime.

[Berwickhibby]

Officer involved arrested and charged..... hopefully some justice

[lapsedhibee]

'When the looting starts, the shooting starts' tweets Trump. Twitter blocks the tweet as a possible incitement to violence. As Springsteen says, there are things happening in America today that I never thought id see again in my lifetime.

Not blocked, just annotated. Twitter trolling Trump.

[Captain Trips]

I always found these two cases very strange.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearances_of_Terrance_Williams_and_Felipe_San tos

[ddoc]

'When the looting starts, the shooting starts' tweets Trump. Twitter blocks the tweet as a possible incitement to violence. As Springsteen says, there are things happening in America today that I never thought id see again in my lifetime.

I think the USA is going to implode in the run up to the presidential election. Deplorable incidents such as this are the tip of the iceberg and the racial tensions, that are forever bubbling away at a low level, are going to hit heights the States have not seen in decades.
I truly hope I am wrong but I see Trump milking the current situation for all it is worth to enhance his re-election, and a divided USA with violence rampant in many cities is the sort of situation that he will thrive in.

[-Jonesy-]

Protesters came moments away from storming the White House lawn just a few hours ago.
Protests for civil rights, Vietnam war etc have never come close to this level of intensity targeted at the sitting government.
Republicans telling themselves everything is ok are fooling themselves, America is tearing itself to bits.

[wpj]

I was in USA for a year plus in 1995, a dear friend of mine who currently lives in Missouri had a Bernie Sanders sticker on his truck while he was shopping his windows were panned in and "faggot" was sprayed on his truck. Tolerance is pretty much ignored. The irony is his wife has done tours of Afghanistan and Iran and is a potential candidate for Trumps obsession with Iran as she is a Sargent in the military. It's all kinds of messed up

[Radium]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200530/fae3bc31bad48a3509afc8a55ca3c760.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[silverhibee]

America looks like it is going to be in for a rough ride tonight, protests all over the USA and things starting to get ugly in Los Angeles and other states across the US.

[Hibee87]

America looks like it is going to be in for a rough ride tonight, protests all over the USA and things starting to get ugly in Los Angeles and other states across the US.

I'm watching it on CNN news channel and on my phone. **** is kicking off again tonight big time.

[The Modfather]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200530/fae3bc31bad48a3509afc8a55ca3c760.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While I’ll not lose any sleep over it. I’m not sure a football club or a football game is the appropriate place for the armband or the tweet.

[lord bunberry]

I never condone rioting and looting, but I read something earlier that said if it hadn’t been for rioting we wouldn’t have had many of the freedoms we enjoy today.

[brianmc]

While I’ll not lose any sleep over it. I’m not sure a football club or a football game is the appropriate place for the armband or the tweet.

I've never been a member of a political party.
I generally have avoided getting involved on this Board in any political chat be it Independence, Brexit, General Elections or whatever, but,

BUT...

I wholeheartedly support the player making this gesture. 👍🏼

Where else could he FFS?

[AgentDaleCooper]

I never condone rioting and looting, but I read something earlier that said if it hadn’t been for rioting we wouldn’t have had many of the freedoms we enjoy today.

to quote MLK - "a riot is the language of the unheard"

[Callum_62]

Some crazy scenes on twitter

Especial of the police car ramming the crowd [emoji51]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[SteveHFC]

Crazy scenes in Minneapolis.

[The Modfather]

I've never been a member of a political party.
I generally have avoided getting involved on this Board in any political chat be it Independence, Brexit, General Elections or whatever, but,

BUT...

I wholeheartedly support the player making this gesture. 👍🏼

Where else could he FFS?

His own personal social media. As I say, I’ll not lose any sleep over this but prefer football to, generally, be agnostic, to current events and an escape for 90 mins.

[Hibrandenburg]

I never condone rioting and looting, but I read something earlier that said if it hadn’t been for rioting we wouldn’t have had many of the freedoms we enjoy today.

I'm not sure what else the black community in the US are expected to do, they've tried all other avenues of protest but still they are being murdered by the guardians of the state.

[Sylar]

Video on Twitter this morning of an old white guy in Salt Lake City out of his car brandishing a hunting bow at protestors - aiming it around at numerous people, before a mob eventually descend on him and kick the **** out of him, before flipping his car over and setting it on fire.

I've also seen a few other videos of police firing marking rounds (paint) at people on their porches in their homes in Minneapolis as police and the National Guards sweep residential areas.

America is going to destroy itself - it's only a matter of time before the police are dealing with armed protestors, who feel they've been left with no choice in response to police and white-supremacist violence.

[green&left]

While I’ll not lose any sleep over it. I’m not sure a football club or a football game is the appropriate place for the armband or the tweet.

Course it is. Someone's posted the tweet and you're talking about it. With regards the post it's job done.

I can't see the armband but Germany and the Bundesliga arent immune from racism. Only recently a black Hertha Berlin player was subject to monkey noises while playing. If someone wants to highlight that and show support for someone who was murdered then they have every right to. (I'm assuming the armband is something to do with George Floyd?)

[The Modfather]

Course it is. Someone's posted the tweet and you're talking about it. With regards the post it's job done.

I can't see the armband but Germany and the Bundesliga arent immune from racism. Only recently a black Hertha Berlin player was subject to monkey noises while playing. If someone wants to highlight that and show support for someone who was murdered then they have every right to. (I'm assuming the armband is something to do with George Floyd?)

It’s definitely a subject that urgently needs discussed, and by all accounts it seems really bad in America just now. I’m not debating the merits of this specific conversation, just pointing out I don’t particularly think football is the correct place to highlight anything in the real world.

I’ll leave it at that as will probably end up making the same point just in different ways, and in the scheme of things it’s not that big a deal.

[hibsbollah]

A recurring theme seems to be riot police shooting at the press corps trying to report what’s going on.

[easty]

It really is getting very very ugly over there. Videos like these aren’t going to help.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtsaam/please_make_this_go_viral_i_am_begging_you_police/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=f7c64b592c8745de8a3500805363b8d6&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=gtsaam

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtr02f/police_actively_seeking_out_fights_compilation/

[Bristolhibby]

to quote MLK - "a riot is the language of the unheard"

Also Thomas Jefferson - THE author of the Declaration of Independence.

“When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty”.

J

[Pretty Boy]

Colin Kaepernick nailed it:

'When civility leads to death, revolting is the only logical reaction.

The cries for peace will rain down, and when they do, they will land on deaf ears, because your violence has brought this resistance.

We have the right to fight back!'

Frankie Boyle is also bang on the money:

'I think Black Lives Matter is a great piece of political phrasemaking: it hits on something so basic and undeniable, that nobody can disagree or qualify it without announcing that they're a piece of ****'

[Hibrandenburg]

The reaction from the police and authorities over there will do nothing but anger liberals more and convince right wing nutters that Donald has got their backs. This can only escalate following this strategy.

[hibsbollah]

Colin Kaepernick nailed it:

'When civility leads to death, revolting is the only logical reaction.

The cries for peace will rain down, and when they do, they will land on deaf ears, because your violence has brought this resistance.

We have the right to fight back!'

Frankie Boyle is also bang on the money:

'I think Black Lives Matter is a great piece of political phrasemaking: it hits on something so basic and undeniable, that nobody can disagree or qualify it without announcing that they're a piece of ****'

I would love it if a NFL team signed him now. There are some shocking backups still in the league (yes you Geno Smith), and it would make such an important statement. Probably more chance of Fox News granting him an interview.

[Hibrandenburg]

Colin Kaepernick nailed it:

'When civility leads to death, revolting is the only logical reaction.

The cries for peace will rain down, and when they do, they will land on deaf ears, because your violence has brought this resistance.

We have the right to fight back!'

Frankie Boyle is also bang on the money:

'I think Black Lives Matter is a great piece of political phrasemaking: it hits on something so basic and undeniable, that nobody can disagree or qualify it without announcing that they're a piece of ****'

Love the quote from Boyle.

[Bristolhibby]

I would love it if a NFL team signed him now. There are some shocking backups still in the league (yes you Geno Smith), and it would make such an important statement. Probably more chance of Fox News granting him an interview.

Crusty, old, white, male, NFL Franchise owning, millionaires are not known for their left leaning view of the world though.

J

[Sir David Gray]

I don't for one second condone what happened with George Floyd, it was absolutely disgraceful and the man responsible should be convicted of his murder. It was such a horrendous thing to watch. However as much as I sympathise with those looking to protest, taking to the streets and setting fire to people's businesses and cars etc who have nothing to do with this can't be condoned and is only going to result in the protesters losing the support of people who would have otherwise backed them.

Unfortunately though, incidents like the one with George Floyd do not appear to be isolated incidents in the USA and that, coupled with their not too distant past, means that racial tensions are never too far away from bubbling up to the surface.

The response from the White House will unfortunately do nothing to help matters though and I can only see this heading one way.

[hibsbollah]

Crusty, old, white, male, NFL Franchise owning, millionaires are not known for their left leaning view of the world though.

J

I agree, although it’s a sad state of affairs when supporting equality is considered ‘left leaning’. It used to be middle of the road thinking.

[McD]

It really is getting very very ugly over there. Videos like these aren’t going to help.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtsaam/please_make_this_go_viral_i_am_begging_you_police/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=f7c64b592c8745de8a3500805363b8d6&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=gtsaam

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtr02f/police_actively_seeking_out_fights_compilation/


these are truly frightening

[Casey1875]

It really is getting very very ugly over there. Videos like these aren’t going to help.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtsaam/please_make_this_go_viral_i_am_begging_you_police/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=f7c64b592c8745de8a3500805363b8d6&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=gtsaam

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtr02f/police_actively_seeking_out_fights_compilation/

They are going to end up having a civil war. There are that many well armed people that it is almost inevitable.

[Keith_M]

I don't for one second condone what happened with George Floyd, it was absolutely disgraceful and the man responsible should be convicted of his murder. It was such a horrendous thing to watch. However as much as I sympathise with those looking to protest, taking to the streets and setting fire to people's businesses and cars etc who have nothing to do with this can't be condoned and is only going to result in the protesters losing the support of people who would have otherwise backed them.
....


This is exactly my view.

These people have already been criticised by some of the protesters as they are just taking advantage of the situation to loot shops. It's actually pretty similar to what many people did in the riots in England in 2011.


To paraphrase Trump "there are [bad] people on both sides". That includes the police reaction in many cities as well.

[Betty Boop]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/knee-on-neck.JPG

[Captain Trips]

This is exactly my view.

These people have already been criticised by some of the protesters as they are just taking advantage of the situation to loot shops. It's actually pretty similar to what many people did in the riots in England in 2011.


To paraphrase Trump "there are [bad] people on both sides". That includes the police reaction in many cities as well.

Correct, all lives matter not just one colour lets remember that so setting fire to shops and stealing from black,white,all creeds and races who probably own some of these businesses and what of the people who die during this stuff. The Policeman has committed a crime been arrested and will be charged and go to court after that is surely the time to protest in some way if the result appears to be very wrong thus far it is as it should be. I believe in amongst the anger there are many more using this as a chance to steal and cause violence. If the Police guy walks free i could understand it a bit more but FFS he has to be tried first etc etc.

[-Jonesy-]

Correct, all lives matter not just one colour lets remember that so setting fire to shops and stealing from black,white,all creeds and races who probably own some of these businesses and what of the people who die during this stuff. The Policeman has committed a crime been arrested and will be charged and go to court after that is surely the time to protest in some way if the result appears to be very wrong thus far it is as it should be. I believe in amongst the anger there are many more using this as a chance to steal and cause violence. If the Police guy walks free i could understand it a bit more but FFS he has to be tried first etc etc.

Aye the American justice system has a real great record of delivering swift and measured justice against those who abuse their status as an authority to kill minorities in the line of duty.

The jails are positively overflowing with all the bad apples who have taken the lives of innocent people under the protection of the law.

[bigwheel]

Correct, all lives matter not just one colour lets remember that so setting fire to shops and stealing from black,white,all creeds and races who probably own some of these businesses and what of the people who die during this stuff. The Policeman has committed a crime been arrested and will be charged and go to court after that is surely the time to protest in some way if the result appears to be very wrong thus far it is as it should be. I believe in amongst the anger there are many more using this as a chance to steal and cause violence. If the Police guy walks free i could understand it a bit more but FFS he has to be tried first etc etc.

“ not just one colour “? The slogan isn’t “only black lives matter”. It’s not against or marginalising other races. This is a cry for help against systemic racial abuse ...the everyday experiences of black people are often dominated with racism and prejudice.

I’m not justifying the looting ..it’s appalling ..and yes, there will be those who take advantage of these situations ..but that is not the heart of these protests . The real question we should care about is - why should black people still have to put up with prejudice and brutality?

[Hibrandenburg]

Correct, all lives matter not just one colour lets remember that so setting fire to shops and stealing from black,white,all creeds and races who probably own some of these businesses and what of the people who die during this stuff. The Policeman has committed a crime been arrested and will be charged and go to court after that is surely the time to protest in some way if the result appears to be very wrong thus far it is as it should be. I believe in amongst the anger there are many more using this as a chance to steal and cause violence. If the Police guy walks free i could understand it a bit more but FFS he has to be tried first etc etc.

I'm struggling to see any other options to civil unrest here. Of course all lives matter, but George Floyd is just one of many black men who has been murdered by those responsible for upholding law and order. This is not just about the cop with his knee on George Floyd's neck, but also about the other officers who stood back and let it happen, that's the real problem here, not the individual rogue racist cops who murder black men, the real problem is that they are allowed to do it by their colleagues and the authorities who then close ranks to protect the perpetrators. Peaceful protest and lobbying have failed to change things, what options are left?

[lapsedhibee]

Correct, all lives matter not just one colour lets remember that so setting fire to shops and stealing from black,white,all creeds and races who probably own some of these businesses and what of the people who die during this stuff. The Policeman has committed a crime been arrested and will be charged and go to court after that is surely the time to protest in some way if the result appears to be very wrong thus far it is as it should be. I believe in amongst the anger there are many more using this as a chance to steal and cause violence. If the Police guy walks free i could understand it a bit more but FFS he has to be tried first etc etc.

Thus far it took four days of widespread protest for the officer to be arrested. You think that was as it should have been? :dunno:

[Onceinawhile]

Thus far it took four days of widespread protest for the officer to be arrested. You think that was as it should have been? :dunno:

Not only that, but there was four officers involved and only one has been arrested.

[Slavers]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

[-Jonesy-]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

If you’re posting this link without any reference that blacks make a disproportionate number of deaths by police due to population size fair enough.

If you’re leaving it there to show more white people die than blacks by police in America without drawing attention to that you’re a horrible racist troll.

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

:agree: Non-whites disproportionately represented. Shock!

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

What's your point please?

[Berwickhibby]

Looking at it in a slightly different way, could these numbers be reduced dramatically if the right to bare arms (2nd Amendment) and the routine carrying of firearms by the various levels of law enforcement in the US ended .....say like the UK....

[lapsedhibee]

Looking at it in a slightly different way, could these numbers be reduced dramatically if the right to bare arms (2nd Amendment) and the routine carrying of firearms by the various levels of law enforcement in the US ended .....say like the UK....

Don't think the length of polismen's sleeves makes a blind bit of difference to the stats tbh. :na na:

[bigwheel]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Numbers quite similar - yet white people make up 60 percent of the US and the black population (non Hispanic) is roughly 12.5%.

[Berwickhibby]

Don't think the length of polismen's sleeves makes a blind bit of difference to the stats tbh. :na na:

Lol 😂..... however, and I am not trivialising the subject, the easy access to firearms leads to people being shot.

[JimBHibees]

Looking at it in a slightly different way, could these numbers be reduced dramatically if the right to bare arms (2nd Amendment) and the routine carrying of firearms by the various levels of law enforcement in the US ended .....say like the UK....

Without doubt I would have thought though the genie is out the bottle and is refusing to go back in. Boy I know was in Texas at same time as a gun convention and was a little disturbed by random joes walking downtown the street with machine guns wrapped round them. Beyond belief

[Keith_M]

Looking at it in a slightly different way, could these numbers be reduced dramatically if the right to bare arms (2nd Amendment) and the routine carrying of firearms by the various levels of law enforcement in the US ended .....say like the UK....


In the UK, you're statistically more likely (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/13/black-people-more-likely-to-have-force-used-against-them-by-police-data-shows) to be tasered or have other forms of 'force' used against you by the police.

You're much more likely to be the victim of a Murder. You're also much more likely to the the perpetrator of a Murder (From Sky News (https://news.sky.com/story/black-murder-victims-and-suspects-london-v-uk-11443656))

[Berwickhibby]

Without doubt I would have thought though the genie is out the bottle and is refusing to go back in. Boy I know was in Texas at same time as a gun convention and was a little disturbed by random joes walking downtown the street with machine guns wrapped round them. Beyond belief

Absolutely, the Yanks and their guns, added with the political clout of the NRSA it has always been a powder keg and varies from state to state. The British police are far from perfect, but policing by consent, no routine carrying of fire arms, body cams and having to justify actions makes me happier I live here.

[Keith_M]

Absolutely, the Yanks and their guns, added with the political clout of the NRSA it has always been a powder keg and varies from state to state. The British police are far from perfect, but policing by consent, no routine carrying of fire arms, body cams and having to justify actions makes me happier I live here.


The Police have guns in Germany as well but don't go round randomly shooting people. Maybe it's a cultural thing.

I lived there for six years but very rarely ever heard of shooting incidents involving the Police. Though the general population don't tend to have guns, so I expect that makes a big difference.

[Captain Trips]

Thus far it took four days of widespread protest for the officer to be arrested. You think that was as it should have been? :dunno:

Can you prove he would not have been arrested without this? No you cant.

[Captain Trips]

Aye the American justice system has a real great record of delivering swift and measured justice against those who abuse their status as an authority to kill minorities in the line of duty.

The jails are positively overflowing with all the bad apples who have taken the lives of innocent people under the protection of the law.

Ok then seeing as we wont give it a chance to see if they arrest anyone i will show my anger at this by smashing up shops of innocent parties? Utter nonsense. The Policeman has to go through the process if that is not quick enough for some tough. The guy should get a very long stretch if not life. No other cases are people arrested taken to court and trial completed in under 5 days. I think you will find plenty of white people have gone to jail wrongly or people not been convicted when they should have been but no riots that I recall.

[lapsedhibee]

Can you prove he would not have been arrested without this? No you cant.

And the four days' delay?

[Kato]

I think you will find plenty of white people have gone to jail wrongly or people not been convicted when they should have been but no riots that I recall.

Were they wrongly jailed because they were white?

[Captain Trips]

I'm struggling to see any other options to civil unrest here. Of course all lives matter, but George Floyd is just one of many black men who has been murdered by those responsible for upholding law and order. This is not just about the cop with his knee on George Floyd's neck, but also about the other officers who stood back and let it happen, that's the real problem here, not the individual rogue racist cops who murder black men, the real problem is that they are allowed to do it by their colleagues and the authorities who then close ranks to protect the perpetrators. Peaceful protest and lobbying have failed to change things, what options are left?

Ok say this happened in your street and your home was ransacked and then burnt down, would you feel that was justified? I am fully aware there have been countless incidents like this over years and probably a good few not reported but its ok to say this is whats need 5000 miles away. it is not what is needed at all its a disgrace add to that you will have folk that dont really give a toss piggy backing onto this so they can set fire to stuff and bag a new TV all before a trial and the Law has had a chance to fail the people.

For get why and how. You own a business and it is destroyed by thugs what about that person? Why is that deemed ok to ruin peoples business and lives who have nothing to do with it and in many cases sympathise.

[Captain Trips]

Were they wrongly jailed because they were white?

Are you suggesting from this that the errors in Black people being wrongly imprisoned is due to them simply being Black? Is that in all cases or do you have facts? and the White people in jail by mistake were all evidence that was wrong?

So its just blanket all Black people who are wrongly in jail are in jail as because they are Black and not through eyewitness error or any other error its just purely colour? I hope I have you wrong as that is utterly ridiculous.

[Captain Trips]

And the four days' delay?

Im sorry but do you know how the inner workings of this investigation what was discussed how things were dealt with? No i bet like me you dont. Does a 4 day "delay" justify the behaviour we have seen?

[Kato]

Are you suggesting from this that the errors in Black people being wrongly imprisoned is due to them simply being Black? Is that in all cases or do you have facts? and the White people in jail by mistake were all evidence that was wrong?

So its just blanket all Black people who are wrongly in jail are in jail as because they are Black and not through eyewitness error or any other error its just purely colour? I hope I have you wrong as that is utterly ridiculous.

Weird post.

[Captain Trips]

Weird post.

Nothing weird about it so tell me "Were they wrongly jailed because they were white?" Can you explain why you asked this question in particular? I only know of a few cases of people being released both Black and White through wrong evidence/eyewitness or development of DNA exonerating them. I do not recall any Black people being released after a period of time wrongly put in Jail because they were Black.

I think that answers your question but strange thing to ask.

[Kato]

I do not recall any Black people being released after a period of time wrongly put in Jail because they were Black.



What are your qualifications on this?

[lapsedhibee]

Im sorry but do you know how the inner workings of this investigation what was discussed how things were dealt with? No i bet like me you dont. Does a 4 day "delay" justify the behaviour we have seen?

You said everything was as it should be. Now prove it.

[Captain Trips]

You said everything was as it should be. Now prove it.

Is he in jail? Yes. Is that were he should be? Yes. How long should it have taken for him to go to Jail? 1, 2 3 days? Completely and utterly subjective. He is in jail as he should be. Proved. Timescale is a complete and utter subjective matter. If somebody murdered a member of my family 4 days I would relatively happy with that even if on film and they knew who it was I would still now be far more concerned he gets punished correctly.

He is arrested so the job has been done correctly you would need to prove it should not have taken 4 days so once you phone the department and find out all the protocol for it all you can let me know. Just because they knew who it was and it was filmed might not mean it moves as swift as you may imagine.

Why is it a "delay" and not an investigation? As it was filmed it should and does not need investigated then? It was just delayed. took them years to catch the Yorkshire ripper was that a delay or an investigation?

[Berwickhibby]

I’m white
I’m male
I’m a retired police officer
I’m not ashamed of any of those things.

I proudly stand with boys and girls in blue in London, and around the world.

But, I do not stand with anyone who would kneel on the neck of another human being for 9 minutes, regardless of colour, regardless of what they have done.

I stand with those peacefully protesting in London and around the world for equality.

But, I do not stand with those that are attacking police or looting businesses in their own communities.

I can fully understand the anger but there has to be other ways to move forward.
I don’t know what they are but violence cannot be the answer.

[JeMeSouviens]

Is he in jail? Yes. Is that were he should be? Yes. How long should it have taken for him to go to Jail? 1, 2 3 days? Completely and utterly subjective. He is in jail as he should be. Proved. Timescale is a complete and utter subjective matter. If somebody murdered a member of my family 4 days I would relatively happy with that even if on film and they knew who it was I would still now be far more concerned he gets punished correctly.

He is arrested so the job has been done correctly you would need to prove it should not have taken 4 days so once you phone the department and find out all the protocol for it all you can let me know. Just because they knew who it was and it was filmed might not mean it moves as swift as you may imagine.

Why is it a "delay" and not an investigation? As it was filmed it should and does not need investigated then? It was just delayed. took them years to catch the Yorkshire ripper was that a delay or an investigation?

Bloody hell. You really don't think the context of a few centuries of exploitation, oppression, persecution, segregation, terror, etc have any bearing here?

The black population of the US has been abused forever but they've been being brutalised *live on camera* since Rodney King over 25 years ago and watched the perpetrators go largely unpunished.

I'm not condoning violence etc but it doesn't take much to understand it.

[Captain Trips]

What? All the evidence of the last few years proves that cops who kill innocent black people do not have to suffer the justice for their actions, why would we be expected to think this will pan out any differently?

For your other point did you ever wonder that maybe there wasn’t any rioting because anti white prejudice isn’t Absolutely systemic In the justice system.

Either naively or wilfully ignorant of this issue you’re a ****ing idiot

Who said that is not the case? But the trial has not taken place so you are justifying the behaviour of people are you? I think you are naive to and the ++++ing idiot. So in comparison then seeing as no incidence supports that any Police are jailed for killing innocent Black people what are the stats for the time served for killing non Black people?

Seeing as you are not ignorant your all the evidence pish falls on its arse maybe check out Walter Scott in South Carolina. I am not saying it does not happen I am saying ruining other peoples lives is unacceptable way to deal with it. If you think it is then i think pretty audacious to be calling anyone an idiot.

[lapsedhibee]

Is he in jail? Yes. Is that were he should be? Yes. How long should it have taken for him to go to Jail? 1, 2 3 days? Completely and utterly subjective. He is in jail as he should be. Proved. Timescale is a complete and utter subjective matter. If somebody murdered a member of my family 4 days I would relatively happy with that even if on film and they knew who it was I would still now be far more concerned he gets punished correctly.

He is arrested so the job has been done correctly you would need to prove it should not have taken 4 days so once you phone the department and find out all the protocol for it all you can let me know. Just because they knew who it was and it was filmed might not mean it moves as swift as you may imagine.

Why is it a "delay" and not an investigation? As it was filmed it should and does not need investigated then? It was just delayed. took them years to catch the Yorkshire ripper was that a delay or an investigation?

You haven't proved that they didn't have all the evidence they needed to lock the officer up after 10 minutes. Doesn't the gap between him being sacked and then arrested suggest anything at all to you? For example, that the protests had an effect. Prove that the protests didn't have any effect.

[Captain Trips]

Bloody hell. You really don't think the context of a few centuries of exploitation, oppression, persecution, segregation, terror, etc have any bearing here?

The black population of the US has been abused forever but they've been being brutalised *live on camera* since Rodney King over 25 years ago and watched the perpetrators go largely unpunished.

I'm not condoning violence etc but it doesn't take much to understand it.

I am fully aware of all this I bet that Polieman would not have done that if guy was white probably, I bet a few other factors would have also been done differently. look at the child murders of Atlanta 29 people murdered all black and i think it took until about the 10th body appeared before action started being taken. If that was white children i am certain after 2 or 3 things would have been moving faster. I am saying violence is not an answer it should never be.

Of course I can understand this but not every time something isn't as you want is it all race related. I think the guy is in jail and it should be left at that to see how it pans out and "IF" he walks free from this with the clear evidence against him that maybe would be time for further action.

[Captain Trips]

You haven't proved that they didn't have all the evidence they needed to lock the officer up after 10 minutes. Doesn't the gap between him being sacked and then arrested suggest anything at all to you? For example, that the protests had an effect. Prove that the protests didn't have any effect.

I do not need to prove anything, I dont need to prove things they did or didn't do or have. Ok so lets say the rioting got him arrested, you think thats acceptable to potentially kill more people and cause £100000s of damage? So how long you give the Police you have 1 day or its a riot? 2? a week?

[Captain Trips]

Bloody hell. You really don't think the context of a few centuries of exploitation, oppression, persecution, segregation, terror, etc have any bearing here?

The black population of the US has been abused forever but they've been being brutalised *live on camera* since Rodney King over 25 years ago and watched the perpetrators go largely unpunished.

I'm not condoning violence etc but it doesn't take much to understand it.

So because I think it might have taken a few days to arrest him I dont get the struggles of Black people in America? or that plenty of times Black people have likely been shot based on skin colour first by Police? I am questioning posters on here that seem to think ruining other peoples lives is an acceptable response quite how that equates to me not understanding of how things are in America with race crime and hate over the years is truly strange.

[Kato]

I am questioning posters on here that seem to think ruining other peoples lives is an acceptable response

Why don't you "blame the source" of the problem on this one?

[EH6 Hibby]

I do not need to prove anything, I dont need to prove things they did or didn't do or have. Ok so lets say the rioting got him arrested, you think thats acceptable to potentially kill more people and cause £100000s of damage? So how long you give the Police you have 1 day or its a riot? 2? a week?

You should watch the Documentary Thirteen on Netflix and then come back and look at what you have posted on this thread.

[Captain Trips]

You should watch the Documentary Thirteen on Netflix and then come back and look at what you have posted on this thread.

Tell me what i have posted then? That requires me to watch a documentary?

That the rioting is wrong? Also said that 4 days to jail him is acceptable? Thats about it i think all else we are all in agreement with that Polieman is **** and should get life if you though can point me in the actual direction please of items I have posted that requires me to look back at what i have posted then please direct me to that. Saying that burning shops is wrong?

[Captain Trips]

Why don't you "blame the source" of the problem on this one?

There we go you know i have not said anything other than the rioting is wrong and that 4 days was to short a time for a riot IMO. So based on that I am racist. You really have to love this place. From your response I take you have no answers either other than trying to be funny all be it badly. Having a go at people rioting mean I think it was ok for Police to kill somebody? Is that how it works?

[JeMeSouviens]

There we go you know i have not said anything other than the rioting is wrong and that 4 days was to short a time for a riot IMO. So based on that I am racist. You really have to love this place. From your response I take you have no answers either other than trying to be funny all be it badly. Having a go at people rioting mean I think it was ok for Police to kill somebody? Is that how it works?

You seem to expect that the black population of the US should sit back and let "due process" take its course and everything will be fine.

Spoiler - it won't.

They need the system to change. We'd all prefer a non-violent way of achieving that.

[Kato]

There we go you know i have not said anything other than the rioting is wrong and that 4 days was to short a time for a riot IMO. So based on that I am racist. You really have to love this place. From your response I take you have no answers either other than trying to be funny all be it badly. Having a go at people rioting mean I think it was ok for Police to kill somebody? Is that how it works?

Haven't called you racist and most definitely not trying to be funny. Just asked a few questions.

One being.. "What are your qualifications on this?"

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Captain Trips]

You seem to expect that the black population of the US should sit back and let "due process" take its course and everything will be fine.

Spoiler - it won't.

They need the system to change. We'd all prefer a non-violent way of achieving that.

I never said it would be fine. you are saying sit back not them. 4 days is not sitting back. You are correct this happens a lot but the previous riots still have us here today in pretty much same position. The riots can lose some sympathy as well. Indeed it needs to change rioting has not changed it yet and takes focus from it. Not you however my POV seems to have me sympathising with the other side because I disagree with the rioting, that tells me that people on here are condoning violence does it not? I can surely jump to that conclusion if i am now racist etc etc.

[Vault Boy]

Colin Kaepernick was subjected to no end of criticism for harmlessly and peacefully protesting the systematic racism that is still so prevalent in the USA.

Now suddenly his detractors wish that these "thugs" would play nice and stand up to racism by forming a drum circle and singing Amazing Grace. How convenient. Peaceful protests haven't ****ing worked.

[Captain Trips]

Haven't called you racist and most definitely not trying to be funny. Just asked a few questions.

One being.. "What are your qualifications on this?"

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

No "the Source" was you trying to be funny and you are right it wasnt. What exactly are you looking for here? looking for something that is not there? So you think smashing up shops is ok? Can i make this leap then?

[Captain Trips]

Colin Kaepernick was subjected to no end of criticism for harmlessly and peacefully protesting the systematic racism that is still so prevalent in the USA.

Now suddenly his detractors wish that these "thugs" would play nice and stand up to racism by forming a drum circle and singing Amazing Grace. How convenient. Peaceful protests haven't ****ing worked.

Indeed but neither have riots as nearly 30yrs ago was Rodney King riots and talk have both failed how many riots have there been since then? , so you condone the burning of innocent peoples shops etc? I am as disgusted as anyone by that video and what it shows, how many incidents are not filmed that are bad? lots i would say but I then cannot understand if you are disgusted by bthis that taking action against innocent peoples lives is just one of those things then. Its not.

If this occured in your street and riots happened would you feel same if house set alight? Even though you agree that the polieman should be jailed and you agree with his jailing none the less your house is burned down. Well you think how that would feel as lots of folk will have this feeling.

[Hibrandenburg]

Ok say this happened in your street and your home was ransacked and then burnt down, would you feel that was justified? I am fully aware there have been countless incidents like this over years and probably a good few not reported but its ok to say this is whats need 5000 miles away. it is not what is needed at all its a disgrace add to that you will have folk that dont really give a toss piggy backing onto this so they can set fire to stuff and bag a new TV all before a trial and the Law has had a chance to fail the people.

For get why and how. You own a business and it is destroyed by thugs what about that person? Why is that deemed ok to ruin peoples business and lives who have nothing to do with it and in many cases sympathise.

Nobody said it was ok. Many of the things we take for granted today were only granted after civil unrest.

[Kato]

No "the Source" was you trying to be funny and you are right it wasnt. What exactly are you looking for here? looking for something that is not there? So you think smashing up shops is ok? Can i make this leap then?Another weird reply that doesn't address anything.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Captain Trips]

Nobody said it was ok. Many of the things we take for granted today were only granted after civil unrest.

Do you condone the riots? If yes thats upto you if No you agree with me so there is no argument. So do you agree with the rioting? Even though the previous riots did nothing but cause heartache for even more people than the initial victims family.

[Captain Trips]

Another weird reply that doesn't address anything.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

I do not need "qualifications" every prisoner that has been released that i am aware of in the USA was done so on either evidence being bad, eye witness error or DNA becoming available. I think if a case had happened that said a man who was serving 30 years was finally released as the only reason he was jailed as he was Black might have popped up somewhere until then all the ones I know are evidence related.

[Captain Trips]

Another weird reply that doesn't address anything.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Do you think setting fire to shops is ok? This is easy its either yes or no. If yes we disagree and I will challenge anyone who thinks that is acceptable if its no why are we having a discussion?

[Vault Boy]

Indeed but neither have riots as nearly 30yrs ago was Rodney King riots and talk have both failed how many riots have there been since then? , so you condone the burning of innocent peoples shops etc? I am as disgusted as anyone by that video and what it shows, how many incidents are not filmed that are bad? lots i would say but I then cannot understand if you are disgusted by bthis that taking action against innocent peoples lives is just one of those things then. Its not.

If this occured in your street and riots happened would you feel same if house set alight? Even though you agree that the polieman should be jailed and you agree with his jailing none the less your house is burned down. Well you think how that would feel as lots of folk will have this feeling.

Riots have consistently led to real reform. They are not random acts of opportunistic violence, they're a massive release of human emancipation energy that very attentively spotlight particular issues, often leading to reform and investigation that would have otherwise went unchecked. You don't think that civil rights riots or the stonewall riots made a marked change to the world we live in?

The material damage is much less important than the human cost of police brutality. You can't expect black Americans to take this **** lying down.

[Captain Trips]

Riots have consistently led to real reform. They are not random acts of opportunistic violence, they're a massive release of human emancipation energy that very attentively spotlight particular issues, often leading to reform and investigation that would have otherwise went unchecked. You don't think that civil rights riots or the stonewall riots made a marked change to the world we live in?

The material damage is much less important than the human cost of police brutality. You can't expect black Americans to take this **** lying down.

I did not say they didnt change things. But the last how many riots have done nothing do you condone the burning of innocent peoples business and would you have this same feeling if you were in the position of returning to a burned out home today? You are expecting these people to understand this are you not. Why are people grouping all Black Americans together 1000s will disagree with this as well you know.

[Berwickhibby]

Do you think setting fire to shops is ok? This is easy its either yes or no. If yes we disagree and I will challenge anyone who thinks that is acceptable if its no why are we having a discussion?

CT, I get what you are saying and I agree that violence is not the way forward and I do not think you are a racist. 4 days to get to charge would be rapid compared to the UK system. I do not know how the judicial system in Minnesota works but this has been quick. Innocent bystanders, vehicles and businesses being torched is also criminal.

[-Jonesy-]

I do not need "qualifications" every prisoner that has been released that i am aware of in the USA was done so on either evidence being bad, eye witness error or DNA becoming available. I think if a case had happened that said a man who was serving 30 years was finally released as the only reason he was jailed as he was Black might have popped up somewhere until then all the ones I know are evidence related.

Imagine thinking like this, imagine thinking every miscarriage of justice was the fault of an honest mistake.

What an absolute fruitloop.

[Vault Boy]

I did not say they didnt change things. But the last how many riots have done nothing do you condone the burning of innocent peoples business and would you have this same feeling if you were in the position of returning to a burned out home today? You are expecting these people to understand this are you not. Why are people grouping all Black Americans together 1000s will disagree with this as well you know.

Again, the material damage is much less important than the human cost of racism in America, but you seem to be far more concerned with some shopfronts being vandalised, albeit wrongfully, than the real issue at hand. Fine.

FYI nobody is 'grouping all black Americans together,' I am simply naming the group most affected by the cause of the riots and the group most prevelant in engaging with the riots. If you infer from that that I meant every single black person condones the rioting, then that's your own fault.

[hibsbollah]

Do you think setting fire to shops is ok? This is easy its either yes or no. If yes we disagree and I will challenge anyone who thinks that is acceptable if its no why are we having a discussion?

Basically you’re being a snowflake here. Banging on about the riots without examining the context as to why they’re happening (the black population being routinely harassed and terrorised and the US becoming more and more an apartheid state), and then when people disagree you accuse folk of saying you’re racist when they haven’t.

[-Jonesy-]

CT, I get what you are saying and I agree that violence is not the way forward and I do not think you are a racist. 4 days to get to charge would be rapid compared to the UK system. I do not know how the judicial system in Minnesota works but this has been quick. Innocent bystanders, vehicles and businesses being torched is also criminal.

4 days to make a charge, with direct video evidence from within an hour of it happening.
4 days to charge one of four policemen, three of whom were kneeling on George Floyd at the same time, with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter.
4 days to charge one officer, who is expected to be bailed on a $50,000 bond today and be free to live his life until trial.

And people think that this single arrest and charge should appease decades of neglect and wrongdoing. No danger.

[hibsbollah]

Colin Kaepernick was subjected to no end of criticism for harmlessly and peacefully protesting the systematic racism that is still so prevalent in the USA.

Now suddenly his detractors wish that these "thugs" would play nice and stand up to racism by forming a drum circle and singing Amazing Grace. How convenient. Peaceful protests haven't ****ing worked.

In the Bundesliga, Jaydon Sancho scored and revealed a ‘justice for George Floyd’ message. Thuram does a ‘Kaepernick knee’ at the weekend. I wonder how fifa will deal with this.

[Kato]

I do not need "qualifications" every prisoner that has been released that i am aware of in the USA was done so on either evidence being bad, eye witness error or DNA becoming available. I think if a case had happened that said a man who was serving 30 years was finally released as the only reason he was jailed as he was Black might have popped up somewhere until then all the ones I know are evidence related.

You know jack.


Not prepared to argue out your childish umbrage and semantic tantrums.

Go on twitter and write some of your garbage on Bishop Talbet Swan's timeline and get an education.

You have zero qualifications to hold such strong opinions on American racism, as do I.

[Berwickhibby]

4 days to make a charge, with direct video evidence from within an hour of it happening.
4 days to charge one of four policemen, three of whom were kneeling on George Floyd at the same time, with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter.
4 days to charge one officer, who is expected to be bailed on a $50,000 bond today and be free to live his life until trial.

And people think that this single arrest and charge should appease decades of neglect and wrongdoing. No danger.

Yes... I could bore you with the details but needless to say all evidence, forensic coming back from lab, post Mortem coronors verdict witness statements radio transcripts, video recordings etc gets collated and sent to the CPS for a decision to be made on whether or what to charge. The suspect would be on police bail until he is charged then given a date for his first hearing at Magistrates court. Needless to say he could be placed on remand but once again the CPS would have to put a case to the magistrate if they believed the offender would reoffend or was a flight risk. 28 days is on average the time it takes to get a file through CPS.

The other officers would be getting investigated by professional standards and I imagine other charges will follow.

And I agree I do not think a single arrest and charge would appease the anger felt currently

[Captain Trips]

Imagine thinking like this, imagine thinking every miscarriage of justice was the fault of an honest mistake.

What an absolute fruitloop.

Err I am not check the point I was answering. I know full well underlying racist stuff has been a factor.

[weecounty hibby]

There are many many examples of riots/uprisings making change for the better going back centuries. Peasants revolt, French Revolution, American Revolution etc. When people feel they have no other course of action and are not being heard by the authorities then riot and violence is inevitable. Treat people like utter ***** and they will eventually say enough is enough. The violence being meted out on innocent individuals is wrong but the heavy handed measures used by the police and national guard are disgraceful. These are people who are meant to protect their citizens and are actually shooting them in their own homes!!
This all comes from the tip and they feel empowered to do so as Trump is talking about EVERY issue in the US as a war. From Covid to Twitter to the death of a black citizen he rallies his support to arms and belittles all who disagree with him calling them enemies
Sadly this will end in civil war. There are too many factions with too many weapons. It was seen before how happy he was to see rednecks with high powered assault rifles try to take over government buildings.
The state of politics in the US and UK with the general slide into right wing extremes genuinely makes me feel very sad. I have young kids and I had hoped that the Covid crisis would have seen us as a species come together more, be more caring, look after each other rather than No1. Sadly there are too many people with huge resources that they want to make even greater and to hell with everyone else, including the planet itself. Trump is not only a racist bigot but a climate change denier.
I see more and more riots taking place as the ruling elite, and let's not kid ourselves on that Trump is anti establishment, continue to do as they please and shaft the ordinary people.
Probably a bit of a rambling rant but I am honestly just so exasperated and down with what is happening at the moment

[Hibrandenburg]

Do you condone the riots? If yes thats upto you if No you agree with me so there is no argument. So do you agree with the rioting? Even though the previous riots did nothing but cause heartache for even more people than the initial victims family.

I don't see what alternative they have other than civil unrest. 25 years of protest, prayers and lobbying have achieved the square root of **** all. Generations of black Americans have been discriminated against, jailed, lynched, enslaved, tortured, received racial abuse both verbal and physical and murdered by police, I certainly understand their anger and see little alternative to them other than civil unrest.

I said earlier that this is more about how the other officers who were present are held responsible, if they do not receive adequate punishment, then nothing has changed.

Do I condone the rioting, of course I don't, but I do understand why they are happening and I would probably act similar if I was a black American.

How do you suggest they try and force change?

[Captain Trips]

Basically you’re being a snowflake here. Banging on about the riots without examining the context as to why they’re happening (the black population being routinely harassed and terrorised and the US becoming more and more an apartheid state), and then when people disagree you accuse folk of saying you’re racist when they haven’t.

Context? Aye ok I need context don't I. Maybe you and some others do, to think innocent people being hurt things being stolen and possible other things has led to what over past 20 30 years? To be the same position we are in still.

If you think it's OK that people being getting hurt is OK you think shops being looted is OK, I have called nieve what does having a new 55" TV on your wall achieve or some jewellery or a new sound system? You condone this?

Nieve is thinking that many people that are doing this give a toss, they are in this riot to see what they can get out, set fire to ****.

If you care to tell me how lots of people having new laptops and TVs helps then pray tell


What's a racist apologist? You think that's acceptable?

[Captain Trips]

I don't see what alternative they have other than civil unrest. 25 years of protest, prayers and lobbying have achieved the square root of **** all. Generations of black Americans have been discriminated against, jailed, lynched, enslaved, tortured, received racial abuse both verbal and physical and murdered by police, I certainly understand their anger and see little alternative to them other than civil unrest.

I said earlier that this is more about how the other officers who were present are held responsible, if they do not receive adequate punishment, then nothing has changed.

Do I condone the rioting, of course I don't, but I do understand why they are happening and I would probably act similar if I was a black American.

How do you suggest they try and force change?

Why do I need to have an idea to force change, is bagging yourself a TV the way to do it? Nobody seems to like to answer this condone just I understand it. You think I don't understand it? How angry it must make people.

I hate the Policeman and others in attendance for what they did. Life in jail.

I think the stealing and risks taken in a riot are wrong and why are people not just saying its wrong? If you do not tjink it's wrong you condone violence so do mot dare question me on any moral issue you dream up. Does every Black person agree with this behaviour?

It's a means to an end etc etc how dare people try and pull me up that have not got the guts to say they condone violence. Not understand it but condone it.

I don't condone what Police did, I do not condone the reaction either both views against innocent people being hurt or killed. I appear on the wrong for that but smashing up shops appears OK as long as nobody gets hurt of course. So I am against any form of criminal activity and others appear to think laws need broken and I am wrong hmmmm

[Captain Trips]

Yes... I could bore you with the details but needless to say all evidence, forensic coming back from lab, post Mortem coronors verdict witness statements radio transcripts, video recordings etc gets collated and sent to the CPS for a decision to be made on whether or what to charge. The suspect would be on police bail until he is charged then given a date for his first hearing at Magistrates court. Needless to say he could be placed on remand but once again the CPS would have to put a case to the magistrate if they believed the offender would reoffend or was a flight risk. 28 days is on average the time it takes to get a file through CPS.

The other officers would be getting investigated by professional standards and I imagine other charges will follow.

And I agree I do not think a single arrest and charge would appease the anger felt currently

Dont bore people with actual likely procedures let's all just take TVs in his honor. Disgraceful.

[Vault Boy]

Dont bore people with actual likely procedures let's all just take TVs in his honor. Disgraceful.

You reduce the outpouring caused by generations of oppressive behaviours to the tiny minority of rioters who have stolen things and then wonder why people call you an apologist. Go figure.

Disgraceful is the word, but not for what you think it is.

[-Jonesy-]

Why do I need to have an idea to force change, is bagging yourself a TV the way to do it? Nobody seems to like to answer this condone just I understand it. You think I don't understand it? How angry it must make people.

I hate the Policeman and others in attendance for what they did. Life in jail.

I think the stealing and risks taken in a riot are wrong and why are people not just saying its wrong? If you do not tjink it's wrong you condone violence so do mot dare question me on any moral issue you dream up. Does every Black person agree with this behaviour?

It's a means to an end etc etc how dare people try and pull me up that have not got the guts to say they condone violence. Not understand it but condone it.

I don't condone what Police did, I do not condone the reaction either both views against innocent people being hurt or killed. I appear on the wrong for that but smashing up shops appears OK as long as nobody gets hurt of course. So I am against any form of criminal activity and others appear to think laws need broken and I am wrong hmmmm

You sound like you have a lot problems.

[Kato]

You reduce the outpouring caused by generations of oppressive behaviours to the tiny minority of rioters who have stolen things and then wonder why people call you an apologist. Go figure.

Disgraceful is the word, but not for what you think it is.

Sense of proportion is totally lacking. Or knowingly lacking.

[Berwickhibby]

Dont bore people with actual likely procedures let's all just take TVs in his honor. Disgraceful.

:aok:

[Captain Trips]

You reduce the outpouring caused by generations of oppressive behaviours to the tiny minority of rioters who have stolen things and then wonder why people call you an apologist. Go figure.

Disgraceful is the word, but not for what you think it is.

Utter nonsense. So you agree with violence then? And explain to me how stating folk stealing things makes me a racist apologist in turn a racist please I am interested to have that one explained.

Can you answer what happened after all the riots in last 30 years to Police violence? No you can't. You condone violence no matter what and its violence against the innocent its against business and homes. Disgusting that you have the tumerity to bring up how people have had years of struggle to make innocent parties suffer in it and you decide its a minority how do you know?

Still not got the bottle to say you agree with shops being burned. If you agree with riots then that makes you a theif apologist and violence apologist then by the same code. All you do is piss from a height your own argument if you think riots are ok dependant on circumstance. He has been arreseted so no more need for it.

[weecounty hibby]

Dont bore people with actual likely procedures let's all just take TVs in his honor. Disgraceful.

But none of that explains why it took 4 days to ARREST him. Not to CHARGE him, just ARREST him. He was sacked immediately but not arrested.

[Captain Trips]

But none of that explains why it took 4 days to ARREST him. Not to CHARGE him, just ARREST him. He was sacked immediately but not arrested.

Ask Berwick who stated the procedure very clearly.

[Vault Boy]

Utter nonsense. So you agree with violence then? And explain to me how stating folk stealing things makes me a racist apologist in turn a racist please I am interested to have that one explained.

Can you answer what happened after all the riots in last 30 years to Police violence? No you can't. You condone violence no matter what and its violence against the innocent its against business and homes. Disgusting that you have the tumerity to bring up how people have had years of struggle to make innocent parties suffer in it and you decide its a minority how do you know?

Still not got the bottle to say you agree with shops being burned.

Many posters have attempted to explain to you the extent of your ignorance but unfortunately it's akin to building a snowman in the Sahara. You care more about the tiny minority of thefts than you do about systematic racism, we get it.

[weecounty hibby]

Ask Berwick who stated the procedure very clearly.

I'm asking you because you seem to be the one defending the actions of the authorities. Why did it take four days for an arrest to be are when the evidence was there and was irrefutable. It looks like it was quickly deemed to be a sackable offence but not an arrestable one

[hibsbollah]

Context? Aye ok I need context don't I. Maybe you and some others do, to think innocent people being hurt things being stolen and possible other things has led to what over past 20 30 years? To be the same position we are in still.

If you think it's OK that people being getting hurt is OK you think shops being looted is OK, I have called nieve what does having a new 55" TV on your wall achieve or some jewellery or a new sound system? You condone this?

Nieve is thinking that many people that are doing this give a toss, they are in this riot to see what they can get out, set fire to ****.

If you care to tell me how lots of people having new laptops and TVs helps then pray tell


What's a racist apologist? You think that's acceptable?

Youre just blurting our garbage. Ranting. Not only have you a barely developed relationship with the English language, you don’t even have a point to make. You add nothing to a thread except random straw men and rabbit holes, the coronavirus thread went the same way. Sometimes I think I’m following your train of thought, but then it’s just like the Tay Bridge disaster all over again.

[-Jonesy-]

Utter nonsense. So you agree with violence then? And explain to me how stating folk stealing things makes me a racist apologist in turn a racist please I am interested to have that one explained.

Can you answer what happened after all the riots in last 30 years to Police violence? No you can't. You condone violence no matter what and its violence against the innocent its against business and homes. Disgusting that you have the tumerity to bring up how people have had years of struggle to make innocent parties suffer in it and you decide its a minority how do you know?

Still not got the bottle to say you agree with shops being burned. If you agree with riots then that makes you a theif apologist and violence apologist then by the same code. All you do is piss from a height your own argument if you think riots are ok dependant on circumstance. He has been arreseted so no more need for it.

This constant roundabout of argument, demanding people admit your perceived faults, never going anywhere constructive, The stream of consciousness and poorly written format of your rhetoric is starting to suggest that you don’t really have the intellect to back up the weight of your easily disputable opinions.

[Berwickhibby]

Ask Berwick who stated the procedure very clearly.

As I said in an earlier post, I do not know why it took 4 days to arrest the suspect, I have no idea how the Minnisota judicial system runs. I did state that 4 days to charge is very quick compared to England and Wales. My only thought and this is not a fact, that they had perhaps prepared everything with the DA to charge immediately

[Bristolhibby]

I do not need to prove anything, I dont need to prove things they did or didn't do or have. Ok so lets say the rioting got him arrested, you think thats acceptable to potentially kill more people and cause £100000s of damage? So how long you give the Police you have 1 day or its a riot? 2? a week?

And the thousands of other black men being brutalised and killed over the years?

https://youtu.be/eqBAOX6Qegk

A behaviour therapist (black) shot with his hands in the air (I for the of his autistic patient).

https://youtu.be/Q9SZlypyK-4

A black kid threatened with a gun for picking up litter.

https://youtu.be/PEjipYKbOOU

A black man shot while carrying a legal firearm during a traffic stop. (Also in Minnesota).

When do you think enough is enough?

Five Generations ago Americans literally owned other black human beings. That’s the genesis of their race problem.

This was the Fresh Prince 30 years ago! Funny, but deadly serious.

https://youtu.be/GTbxVFTDdo0

J

[Captain Trips]

Many posters have attempted to explain to you the extent of your ignorance but unfortunately it's akin to building a snowman in the Sahara. You care more about the tiny minority of thefts than you do about systematic racism, we get it.

Dont start with the patronising crap to avoid your horrible acceptance of violence. I have no ignorance let me spell it out quite clearly for you.

Black people have been oppressed for 100yrs although some strides have been made there is a lot of systematic racism still rife in America, as I stated and was ignored the Atlanta murders are a prime example of the Police treating serious crime against Black people differently than if the victims were white. There appears institutionalised racism in many Police forces in USA hence the victimisation of not just black but hispanic people also. We come to the weekend and it is still happening.

Black people being pulled over where as a white person likely wouldnt, then you add the victims of unlawful Police brutality that seems to happen a lot some filmed probably loads not filmed. So dont give me any nonsense of what people have went through and about previous uprisings as if I am in some sort of USA iluminate club and you all know stuff that I just didnt.

Do I understand that there is anger that here we go again a Policeman basically murders a black person, that there seems to be no urgency in dealing with it that why is this happening again I think I understand fully.

How does disagreeing with innocent people being victimised mean I dont understand the history behind it? Why do I need to think its ok to be violent to also sympathise?

People on here are condoning violence I am not so please tell me what is wrong in not wanting shops set on fire when I am of the opinion it will not achieve anything like the last riots did and ones before that.

[Kato]

People on here are condoning violence

Where?

[Captain Trips]

This constant roundabout of argument, demanding people admit your perceived faults, never going anywhere constructive, The stream of consciousness and poorly written format of your rhetoric is starting to suggest that you don’t really have the intellect to back up the weight of your easily disputable opinions.

What did you add? Nothing not a thing again simple questions failed to answer and you talk about roundabouts?

So I do not have the intellect to back up what? I simply disagree with arson and violence they are my opinions on this only not what your 4th or 5th whiskey has decided another meaning into it. So as easy disputable how I am wrong to not think arson and violence are acceptable? Try and maybe come back with something of note not just admit "percieved faults" or other off topic nonsense.

[Vault Boy]

Dont start with the patronising crap to avoid your horrible acceptance of violence. I have no ignorance let me spell it out quite clearly for you.

Black people have been oppressed for 100yrs although some strides have been made there is a lot of systematic racism still rife in America, as I stated and was ignored the Atlanta murders are a prime example of the Police treating serious crime against Black people differently than if the victims were white. There appears institutionalised racism in many Police forces in USA hence the victimisation of not just black but hispanic people also. We come to the weekend and it is still happening.

Black people being pulled over where as a white person likely wouldnt, then you add the victims of unlawful Police brutality that seems to happen a lot some filmed probably loads not filmed. So dont give me any nonsense of what people have went through and about previous uprisings as if I am in some sort of USA iluminate club and you all know stuff that I just didnt.

Do I understand that there is anger that here we go again a Policeman basically murders a black person, that there seems to be no urgency in dealing with it that why is this happening again I think I understand fully.

How does disagreeing with innocent people being victimised mean I dont understand the history behind it? Why do I need to think its ok to be violent to also sympathise?

People on here are condoning violence I am not so please tell me what is wrong in not wanting shops set on fire when I am of the opinion it will not achieve anything like the last riots did and ones before that.

Nonsensical, ignorant and completely incoherent diatribe. Not sure how you're going to 'spell it out to me' when you can't even seem to spell.

I've not seen anybody condone violence here, merely folk who recognise that human lives are more valuable than windows and cheesecakes.

That's ignoring the fact that I already said the destruction of shopfronts is wrong in one of my previous replies to you. It's just far less important than the destruction of people.

[Captain Trips]

Where?

Do you agree with riot?

[Captain Trips]

Nonsensical, ignorant and completely incoherent diatribe. Not sure how you're going to 'spell it out to me' when you can't even seem to spell.

I've not seen anybody condone violence here, merely folk who recognise that human lives are more valuable than windows and cheesecakes.

That's ignoring the fact that I already said the destruction of shopfronts is wrong in one of my previous replies to you. It's just far less important than the destruction of people.

"Nonsensical, ignorant and completely incoherent diatribe" perfect descrption of you response the riots IMO will achieve nothing big deal you think different.

You condone arson then? What you suggest if a life is lost stop the riots? Are they checking if people are inside places before setting then on fire?

Was the Rodney King riots worth it?

[Captain Trips]

About time CaptainTrips got called out for his racism on here. He’s been at the dog-whistle racism and even some less subtle racism across a number of threads for months.

What? Utter disgrace of a post that needs proof lets have it? I am racist because I dont agree wit a riot. Utter disgrace. Apology or this has to be a ban? I have made my points today that I disagree with rioting nothing more nothing less that is a disgusting post to be on here irrespective if you agree with me or not.

[Berwickhibby]

About time CaptainTrips got called out for his racism on here. He’s been at the dog-whistle racism and even some less subtle racism across a number of threads for months.

Could you please cite some of these posts, I personally would hate to see anyone accused of such an allegation without some proof.

[Captain Trips]

Could you please cite some of these posts, I personally would hate to see anyone accused of such an allegation without some proof.

There is not any so I have no fears what so ever I am sure they are on the advanced search going back as far as it can looking to put a spin on something. Its a disgrace I have taken a screenshot of it. That is beyond trolling.

[Kato]

Do you agree with riot?

Depend (sic).

[Captain Trips]

Depend (sic).

This riot yes or no?

[JeMeSouviens]

Barack Obama's take - https://medium.com/@BarackObama/how-to-make-this-moment-the-turning-point-for-real-change-9fa209806067

[silverhibee]

What is this #dcblackout all about, nonsense or were liberties taken last night, pictures of police with guns with silencers on them.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Barack Obama's take - https://medium.com/@BarackObama/how-to-make-this-moment-the-turning-point-for-real-change-9fa209806067

Well said Obama, my only criticism is that I thought he would have spoken a few days ago.
Maybe he has and I missed it.

[Kato]

Well said Obama, my only criticism is that I thought he would have spoken a few days ago.
Maybe he has and I missed it.

It's good piece from someone with a sense of proportion based on knowledge and experience.

[AT8]

Let me get this right. They are protesting the fact that the police treat them like animals by doing just that? There has to be a change in the way that minorities are dealt with by the police, that is not up for debate, but the rioting, looting and arson is harming their cause.

[Kato]

There has to be a change in the way that minorities are dealt with by the police, that is not up for debate, but the rioting, looting and arson is harming their cause.



Address the former and the latter wouldn't be happening.

[AT8]

Address the former and the latter wouldn't be happening.

Agreed but we’re going round in circles here. The police view minorities as animals and what we’ve seen over the weekend only strengthens that view. There has to be change on both sides.

[weecounty hibby]

Agreed but we’re going round in circles here. The police view minorities as animals and what we’ve seen over the weekend only strengthens that view. There has to be change on both sides.
It's not just been minorities who have been involved in the protests/riots.

[Kato]

There has to be change on both sides.



There aren't riots every day but there is racism every day.

Where do you think it's best to start?

[Keith_M]

Basically you’re being a snowflake here. Banging on about the riots without examining the context as to why they’re happening (the black population being routinely harassed and terrorised and the US becoming more and more an apartheid state), and then when people disagree you accuse folk of saying you’re racist when they haven’t.


TBF, one poster definitely went too far by calling him 'a racist apologist'.

...


I realise his posts got gradually angrier... and a bit weirder... but I think some of the responses were also quite questionable

[AT8]

There aren't riots every day but there is racism every day.

Where do you think it's best to start?

Not giving the police cause to be in attendance would be a start. Crime stats show that minorities commit a disproportionately high number of crimes. I’m not for a minute suggesting that the killing of black men at the hands of law enforcement is in any way justified but in 99.9% of these cases, the victims were committing criminal acts.

[Vault Boy]

Not giving the police cause to be in attendance would be a start. Crime stats show that minorities commit a disproportionately high number of crimes. I’m not for a minute suggesting that the killing of black men at the hands of law enforcement is in any way justified but in 99.9% of these cases, the victims were committing criminal acts.

Statistics show that POOR people commit a disproportionately higher number of crimes, it also happens that more minorities are impoverished, which explains this point. This stat is so often thrown about but it's so dangerously misleading. Every trustworthy data model shows that the more you remove the external economic pressure from the situation, i.e. the further away you move from poverty, the more the numbers even out - in some cases even leaning more heavily in the way of the white middle class committing proportionally more crimes than their BAME counterparts.

You can't educate and liberate poor BAME communities without there being significant financial investment alongside it. It's so far from being as simple as 'well if black people stop committing crimes then they wouldn't be murdered.'

[AT8]

Statistics show that POOR people commit a disproportionately higher number of crimes, it also happens that more minorities are impoverished, which explains this point. This stat is so often thrown about but it's so dangerously misleading. Every trustworthy data model shows that the more you remove the external economic pressure from the situation, i.e. the further away you move from poverty, the more the numbers even out - in some cases even leaning more heavily in the way of the white middle class committing proportionally more crimes than their BAME counterparts.

You can't educate and liberate poor BAME communities without there being significant financial investment alongside it. It's so far from being as simple as 'well if black people stop committing crimes then they wouldn't be murdered.'

But they’ve been given every opportunity to address that with affirmative action and government handouts yet they still remain in poverty. There seems to be no emphasis on education or having a sound family structure in place. I’ve seen first hand where good honest black people have tried to lift themselves up only to be shunned by their community for “acting white”. It really hurts to see that and I feel so bad for those people. If more minority communities would embrace the opportunities that they’ve been given, we wouldn’t be having these discussions.

[Vault Boy]

But they’ve been given every opportunity to address that with affirmative action and government handouts yet they still remain in poverty. There seems to be no emphasis on education or having a sound family structure in place. I’ve seen first hand where good honest black people have tried to lift themselves up only to be shunned by their community for “acting white”. It really hurts to see that and I feel so bad for those people. If more minority communities would embrace the opportunities that they’ve been given, we wouldn’t be having these discussions.

So poor black people choose to be poor. There we have it folks.

[AT8]

So poor black people choose to be poor. There we have it folks.

I’m not saying they chose to be poor, but the evidence suggests they chose to not take advantage of the opportunities presented to them. I’ve seen first hand that when they do try to improve their circumstance with hard work and honor, they are shunned for acting white. One this mindset is changed, we can all hopefully get along in harmony.

[Vault Boy]

I’m not saying they chose to be poor, but the evidence suggests they chose to not take advantage of the opportunities presented to them. I’ve seen first hand that when they do try to improve their circumstance with hard work and honor, they are shunned for acting white. One this mindset is changed, we can all hopefully get along in harmony.

There won't be any harmony so long as folk keep misrepresenting data in order villainise BAME communities I'm afraid.

[AT8]

Who’s misrepresenting data?

[Keith_M]

I see there's been an increase again today in both the protests and the rioting.

Some of the police reaction is completely over the top and is only going to make matters worse.


Strangely, Trump seems to think the police action hasn't actually been forceful enough.

:confused:

[Kato]

I’m not saying they chose to be poor, but the evidence suggests they chose to not take advantage of the opportunities presented to them. I’ve seen first hand that when they do try to improve their circumstance with hard work and honor, they are shunned for acting white. One this mindset is changed, we can all hopefully get along in harmony.

What's handouts and Govt led "opportunities" got to do with hundreds of years of institutionalised racism?

It's like putting a cotton bud on a radiation burn imho and doesn't address the problem in any way. It pays a bit lip service to the problem I'll grant, but often just leads to the easy out of "well we tried".

Another easy out is justifying institutionalised racism by pointing at the minority joining in with the protestors and turning it into a riot and making them the focus.

[Kato]

Who’s misrepresenting data?

You are by equating it with race rather than poverty.

[Vault Boy]

You are by equating it with race rather than poverty.

Exactly.

[bigwheel]

But they’ve been given every opportunity to address that with affirmative action and government handouts yet they still remain in poverty. There seems to be no emphasis on education or having a sound family structure in place. I’ve seen first hand where good honest black people have tried to lift themselves up only to be shunned by their community for “acting white”. It really hurts to see that and I feel so bad for those people. If more minority communities would embrace the opportunities that they’ve been given, we wouldn’t be having these discussions.

Your posts seem to project these challenges on to the black community rather than empathising the adversity that comes with being black in the US (and the UK) today . The reality is - Black people’s everyday experience is much worse than white people . Regardless what they do ..it is that deep set . The system is racist , not just people within it . Subconscious and conscious bias affects black people every single day. Educated or not . Think about this - would you prefer the experiences that the average black person gets everyday to that of your own ? Highly unlikely - because their treatment is prejudiced.

[matty_f]

I think you can condone the looting and the arson, to an extent. You're looking at a population who have consistently hit a wall (metaphorically) trying to get genuine equality and they're still miles off it.

The length of time to take action against the officers/murderers is only a fraction of the issue. That this was allowed to happen at all, after everything that's gone before, is the bigger issue.

Peaceful protests have gotten them nowhere, criticised for taking the knee in the NFL, for example.

This is Trump's America. When the President is so out of touch with the issue that he thinks inciting yet more violence and murder on that population "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" (or words to that effect) you get a literal sense of how little value that prick gives to black lives.

And quoting "all lives matter" is missing the ****ing point directly as well.

It might be an unpopular opinion, but if a bit of civil unrest furthers their cause then more power to them.

[Pretty Boy]

The below quote from Scott Woods sums up what I'd like to say far more eloquently than I could ever manage:

'The problem is that white people see racism as conscious hate, when racism is bigger than that. Racism is a complex system of social and political levers and pulleys set up generations ago to continue working on the behalf of whites at other people’s expense, whether whites know/like it or not. Racism is an insidious cultural disease. It is so insidious that it doesn’t care if you are a white person who likes black people; it’s still going to find a way to infect how you deal with people who don’t look like you. Yes, racism looks like hate, but hate is just one manifestation. Privilege is another. Access is another. Ignorance is another. Apathy is another. And so on. So while I agree with people who say no one is born racist, it remains a powerful system that we’re immediately born into. It’s like being born into air: you take it in as soon as you breathe. It’s not a cold that you can get over. There is no anti-racist certification class. It’s a set of socioeconomic traps and cultural values that are fired up every time we interact with the world. It is a thing you have to keep scooping out of the boat of your life to keep from drowning in it. I know it’s hard work, but it’s the price you pay for owning everything.'

[matty_f]

Your posts seem to project these challenges on to the black community rather than empathising the adversity that comes with being black in the US (and the UK) today . The reality is - Black people’s everyday experience is much worse than white people . Regardless what they do ..it is that deep set . The system is racist , not just people within it . Subconscious and conscious bias affects black people every single day. Educated or not . Think about this - would you prefer the experiences that the average black person gets everyday to that of your own ? Highly unlikely - because their treatment is prejudiced.

Well said. White Americans would not swap how they're treated with how black people are treated.

[Mibbes Aye]

The below quote from Scott Woods sums up what I'd like to say far more eloquently than I could ever manage:

'The problem is that white people see racism as conscious hate, when racism is bigger than that. Racism is a complex system of social and political levers and pulleys set up generations ago to continue working on the behalf of whites at other people’s expense, whether whites know/like it or not. Racism is an insidious cultural disease. It is so insidious that it doesn’t care if you are a white person who likes black people; it’s still going to find a way to infect how you deal with people who don’t look like you. Yes, racism looks like hate, but hate is just one manifestation. Privilege is another. Access is another. Ignorance is another. Apathy is another. And so on. So while I agree with people who say no one is born racist, it remains a powerful system that we’re immediately born into. It’s like being born into air: you take it in as soon as you breathe. It’s not a cold that you can get over. There is no anti-racist certification class. It’s a set of socioeconomic traps and cultural values that are fired up every time we interact with the world. It is a thing you have to keep scooping out of the boat of your life to keep from drowning in it. I know it’s hard work, but it’s the price you pay for owning everything.'

It is a decent piece.

If people are interested, Neil Thompson’s ‘Anti-discriminatory Practice’ is a serious but fascinating interpretation of how discrimination exists at a personal, cultural and structural level. It is hard to argue with anything he says. It was prescribed reading for social work students in the nineties, not sure if that is still the case.

It is cheap on Amazon but I think you can get it for free by Googling.

[Keith_M]

The below quote from Scott Woods sums up what I'd like to say far more eloquently than I could ever manage:

'The problem is that white people see racism as conscious hate, when racism is bigger than that. Racism is a complex system of social and political levers and pulleys set up generations ago to continue working on the behalf of whites at other people’s expense, whether whites know/like it or not. Racism is an insidious cultural disease. It is so insidious that it doesn’t care if you are a white person who likes black people; it’s still going to find a way to infect how you deal with people who don’t look like you. Yes, racism looks like hate, but hate is just one manifestation. Privilege is another. Access is another. Ignorance is another. Apathy is another. And so on. So while I agree with people who say no one is born racist, it remains a powerful system that we’re immediately born into. It’s like being born into air: you take it in as soon as you breathe. It’s not a cold that you can get over. There is no anti-racist certification class. It’s a set of socioeconomic traps and cultural values that are fired up every time we interact with the world. It is a thing you have to keep scooping out of the boat of your life to keep from drowning in it. I know it’s hard work, but it’s the price you pay for owning everything.'


And what about those of us that were born into totally white cultures, i.e. have no system whereby we've benefited from racial bias of any kind... and also abhor racism?


Or are we supposed to all be judged from the viewpoint of someone living in a divided, multi-racial society where prejudice is common-place.... purely because of the colour of our skin?


Sorry, but I object to that most strongly.

[calumhibee1]

And what about those of us that were born into totally white cultures, i.e. have no system whereby we've benefited from racial bias of any kind... and also abhor racism?


Or are we supposed to all be judged from the viewpoint of someone living in a divided, multi-racial society where prejudice is common-place.... purely because of the colour of our skin?


Sorry, but I object to that most strongly.

Yup. Every time an incident like this happens we get told how ALL white people are racist to some degree etc. Like you, I’d object to that very strongly.

[hibsbollah]

I’m not saying they chose to be poor, but the evidence suggests they chose to not take advantage of the opportunities presented to them. I’ve seen first hand that when they do try to improve their circumstance with hard work and honor, they are shunned for acting white. One this mindset is changed, we can all hopefully get along in harmony.


You’ve shown your true colours there. I wouldn’t trust your ‘first hand’ analysis farther than I could throw it.

[matty_f]

And what about those of us that were born into totally white cultures, i.e. have no system whereby we've benefited from racial bias of any kind... and also abhor racism?


Or are we supposed to all be judged from the viewpoint of someone living in a divided, multi-racial society where prejudice is common-place.... purely because of the colour of our skin?



Sorry, but I object to that most strongly.

Unless you recognise that, by virtue of being lucky enough to have been born into an all white culture, you enjoy better treatment and more priveleges than if you'd been born into an all black or as a black person born into a mixed race society, then I'm sorry but there is an element of racism there. Or at least there is when you object to it being pointed out.

[Mibbes Aye]

Yup. Every time an incident like this happens we get told how ALL whits people are racist to some degree etc. Like you, I’d object to that very strongly.

I think that misses a very subtle point, which is why I referenced Thompson’s book. Cultural and societal norms mean that we behave in ways that are implicitly racist - and by we I mean organisations and agencies, not necessarily individuals.

The metaphor I have always liked is to being in a river. The current is structurally racist, but you don’t identify as a racist so are happy treading water. But the current will carry you the wrong way, regardless of your principled intentions. We have to actively go against the current as long as structural racism and indirect discrimination exist. Otherwise, who are we?

[matty_f]

I think that misses a very subtle point, which is why I referenced Thompson’s book. Cultural and societal norms mean that we behave in ways that are implicitly racist - and by we I mean organisations and agencies, not necessarily individuals.

The metaphor I have always liked is to being in a river. The current is structurally racist, but you don’t identify as a racist so are happy treading water. But the current will carry you the wrong way, regardless of your principled intentions. We have to actively go against the current as long as structural racism and indirect discrimination exist. Otherwise, who are we?
That's a good metaphor for it, I hadn't seen that before but it's a good description.

It's why positive discrimination is still necessary, etc - there's a lot of ground to be made up before there's equality.

[Pretty Boy]

And what about those of us that were born into totally white cultures, i.e. have no system whereby we've benefited from racial bias of any kind... and also abhor racism?


Or are we supposed to all be judged from the viewpoint of someone living in a divided, multi-racial society where prejudice is common-place.... purely because of the colour of our skin?


Sorry, but I object to that most strongly.

You don't recognise being white and being born into a white culture is something that has benefited you?

Being white, a male and of North European heritage is a huge privilege, and I used that word deliberately, in so many ways. If I'd been raised protestant I would have had the full set.

[Mibbes Aye]

That's a good metaphor for it, I hadn't seen that before but it's a good description.

It's why positive discrimination is still necessary, etc - there's a lot of ground to be made up before there's equality.

Cheers Matty, I am convinced I made it up myself but it was after reading Thompson, so I might have read him using it, forgotten, and then claimed it as my own invention :greengrin

I will need to go back and read Thompson now so as not to be accused of plagiarism!

[Betty Boop]

A touch of class from Liverpool.


https://www.thisisanfield.com/2020/06/unity-is-strength-liverpool-players-take-a-knee-in-support-of-black-lives-matter/

[AT8]

You’ve shown your true colours there. I wouldn’t trust your ‘first hand’ analysis farther than I could throw it.

How dare you!!! At my last job, I formed a good friendship with a young black lad and through me, he grew an appreciation for rock and metal music until he was called an Uncle Tom and a house "n word" by the other blacks because he didn't listen to rap. So don't you dare question my first hand analysis.

[hibsbollah]

How dare you!!! At my last job, I formed a good friendship with a young black lad and through me, he grew an appreciation for rock and metal music until he was called an Uncle Tom and a house "n word" by the other blacks because he didn't listen to rap. So don't you dare question my first hand analysis.


You know what? I’m actually going to bow out of this now. A lot of us are dealing with major things in our real lives under lockdown that the rest of us don’t know anything about, and I have probably made the mistake of getting into sensitive topics instead of keeping debate light and respectful. I didn’t like your post one little bit but accept my apologies if you didn’t like mine :agree:

[Keith_M]

You don't recognise being white and being born into a white culture is something that has benefited you?

Being white, a male and of North European heritage is a huge privilege, and I used that word deliberately, in so many ways. If I'd been raised protestant I would have had the full set.


Oh yeah, I've had such a privileged life. You don't even know me and have no idea what my life was like.

Feel free to speak for yourself but don't presume to know what other people have gone through in their lives and claim that it doesn't matter, as they have 'white privilege'.

:rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

You don't recognise being white and being born into a white culture is something that has benefited you?

Being white, a male and of North European heritage is a huge privilege, and I used that word deliberately, in so many ways. If I'd been raised protestant I would have had the full set.

:agree:

Don't forget straight.

[Pretty Boy]

Oh yeah, I've had such a privileged life. You don't even know me and have no idea what my life was like.

Feel free to speak for yourself but don't presume to know what other people have gone through in their lives and claim that it doesn't matter, as they have 'white privilege'.

:rolleyes:

This is exactly the point. It's not about the individual.

People from all races can be dealt a ***** hand in life, people from all races can be the victims of injustice, people of all races can make poor choices or have them made on their behalf. No one is denying that. I wouldn't say I have led a particularly privileged life, I had a decent upbringing but I was dealt a few tough blows in other areas. I don't believe I ever claimed personal circumstance 'doesn't matter'. You just made that up.

The fact still remains that systemically and globally being born black is a disadvantage in so many areas. Individual white people or families having a tough life or black families having a good life doesn't change that.

[Berwickhibby]

I think you can condone the looting and the arson, to an extent. You're looking at a population who have consistently hit a wall (metaphorically) trying to get genuine equality and they're still miles off it.

The length of time to take action against the officers/murderers is only a fraction of the issue. That this was allowed to happen at all, after everything that's gone before, is the bigger issue.

Peaceful protests have gotten them nowhere, criticised for taking the knee in the NFL, for example.

This is Trump's America. When the President is so out of touch with the issue that he thinks inciting yet more violence and murder on that population "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" (or words to that effect) you get a literal sense of how little value that prick gives to black lives.

And quoting "all lives matter" is missing the ****ing point directly as well.

It might be an unpopular opinion, but if a bit of civil unrest furthers their cause then more power to them.

So condoning Rioting looting and arson.....obviously written by someone who has never been in a riot or faced rioters then see the devastation on the victims after the event.

[matty_f]

So condoning Rioting looting and arson.....obviously written by someone who has never been in a riot or faced rioters then see the devastation on the victims after the event.

And, respectfully, your post obviously written by someone who didn't understand the point being made.

[Berwickhibby]

And, respectfully, your post obviously written by someone who didn't understand the point being made.

I understand exactly your point, however condoning violence is simply wrong

[Pretty Boy]

I understand exactly your point, however condoning violence is simply wrong

Is violence wrong in all instances? Or do you mean only violence that takes the form of civil unrest?

I could think of many historical instances in which violence was both reasonable and necessary.

[matty_f]

I understand exactly your point, however condoning violence is simply wrong

It's not as black and white as that (no pun intended).

These are people who are exasperated at the fact that it's still a thing that an unarmed black man can be murdered by the police, who have tried peaceful protest and have had enough.

They need to be heard, they need to force change, if there were better ways that shone a light on the situation and forced people to force the change, then great - but they're ignored when they go the peaceful protest, or criticised for it.

[Berwickhibby]

Is violence wrong in all instances? Or do you mean only violence that takes the form of civil unrest?

I could think of many historical instances in which violence was both reasonable and necessary.

For me, I cannot condone violence unless it's self defence, which in my opinion is from years of dealing with violence related crime and I loathe it. I was at Welling (93) and Brixton (95) riots so my perspective may be about the actions rather than the cause.

[Keith_M]

There's some really weird viewpoints, and accusations, on this thread and people need to think a bit more about what they post in regards to their views of other people.... especially ones they've never even met

For a situation that it seems none of us agree with (the oppression of Black people and other races), it seems some folk are more determined to insult others and poison what was a very well intentioned thread.

I really don't want to be drawn into this nonsense any further so I'm out.

Feel free to take that however you want.

[Kato]

From another forum.

Sinister aspect of violence by "the protesters".



Far-Right Extremists Are Hoping to Turn the George Floyd Protests Into a New Civil War

Armed extremists are showing up to protests and urging a “boogaloo” — code for civil war — online.

By*Tess Owen
May 29 2020, 10:41pm
ShareTweetSnap

Far-right extremists are showing up, with guns, to the protests against police brutality that have exploded across the country.
Others are egging on the violence from behind their computers, urging followers to carry out acts of violence against black protesters with the goal of sparking a “race war.”
Their presence makes an uneasy addition to the escalating unrest, which was triggered by the death of George Floyd, a black man who was choked to death by a white Minneapolis police officer earlier this week.

But there’s a range of motivations that’s driving far-right interest toward the protests, which are being led by community members and Black Lives Matter, and bolstered by antifascists.
For example, the so-called Boogaloo Bois — a group of armed anti-government extremists made visible by their Hawaiian shirts — have reportedly shown up to some of the protests.
READ:*The cop who kneeled on George Floyd's neck was just charged with murder
The “boogaloo” is code for impending civil war or violent confrontation with law enforcement, and that’s what they’re hoping to get out of the protests. Their main reason for being there is their antipathy toward law enforcement, and so they’re trying to position themselves as allies of Black Lives Matter protesters. They’ve made police brutality one of their central issues, which was explored at length in a*Bellingcat article this week.
Their approach to police brutality links the victims of the deadly standoff with federal agents at Ruby Ridge in 1992, to the victims of modern police brutality, including Floyd. But unlike the vast majority of protesters, they refuse to acknowledge the fact that police brutality is an issue that disproportionately impacts people of color.

There have been scattered reports of Boogaloo Bois’ presence at the protests, which were compiled by a Bellingcat investigative journalist in a thread. He includes*an audio clip (stripped of video per activists’ requests)*of protesters saying they’d wrestled a handgun from a “white nationalist” agitator — whom he describes as a Boogaloo Boi who became overly rowdy.
READ:*New video shows three cops kneeling on George Floyd as he lay dying

Another photo, shared across private Boogaloo Facebook pages, showed one of their own unfurling their trademark flag during the Minneapolis protests.

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[Callum_62]

From another forum.

Sinister aspect of violence by "the protesters".



Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk"Very fine people"

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[Berwickhibby]

"Very fine people"

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The US is full of right wing extremists and militias..... armed to the teeth, this will not end well with the innocent suffering the most.

[Andy74]

It's not as black and white as that (no pun intended).

These are people who are exasperated at the fact that it's still a thing that an unarmed black man can be murdered by the police, who have tried peaceful protest and have had enough.

They need to be heard, they need to force change, if there were better ways that shone a light on the situation and forced people to force the change, then great - but they're ignored when they go the peaceful protest, or criticised for it.

Matty, we don't really know the motivation behind the behaviour that caused the death though.

It is also still a thing that an unarmed white man can die at the hands of the police in the US - twice as many actually in the last few years. There are more white people than black people so proportionally of course it is different. Then again in certain areas black people are more likely statistically to be engaged in a criminal activity. Does that then lead to more step and search proportionally? Possibly.

I lived in Alabama so I know all about the culture but I don't think it is as easy and black and white - it is about social conditions, poverty, cultural differences.

The historical situation just can't be ignored. It is why there will be a more of a reaction when it happens to a black person because of what they have been subjected to for centuries. For how long can that be a reference though? We have to be aware of what black people have been through and how that informs the current social and economic position they are in but if we keep using it to explain every incident now it will not change.

Protests are fine, riots and looting in particular are more problematic to changing anything. As Obama said though the protests are one part of it - people need to actually change across the way they vote and the way they behave.

Do the current riots have an ask? What happened is terrible but what are the specific actions they are looking for just now to enable them to stop rioting? I think there should be but I just haven't seen specifically what they can do from here to change?

[AgentDaleCooper]

For me, I cannot condone violence unless it's self defence, which in my opinion is from years of dealing with violence related crime and I loathe it. I was at Welling (93) and Brixton (95) riots so my perspective may be about the actions rather than the cause.

what were you doing there?

[calumhibee1]

There's some really weird viewpoints, and accusations, on this thread and people need to think a bit more about what they post in regards to their views of other people.... especially ones they've never even met

For a situation that it seems none of us agree with (the oppression of Black people and other races), it seems some folk are more determined to insult others and poison what was a very well intentioned thread.

I really don't want to be drawn into this nonsense any further so I'm out.

Feel free to take that however you want.

:agree:

Agree with you again there. Plenty folk who are desperate to declare that anyone who doesn’t agree with everything they say is racist.

[Berwickhibby]

what were you doing there?

I was a Met Police Officer

[Ozyhibby]

Crusty, old, white, male, NFL Franchise owning, millionaires are not known for their left leaning view of the world though.

J

Until it comes to setting salary caps.[emoji23]


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[AgentDaleCooper]

I was a Met Police Officer

no offence, but it's not surprising that from this position you are against any form of riots - it's understandable, because your job was to stop them from happening, which would be an absolute nightmare.

i think the point about the protests/riots going on in the states just now is that they have pretty much exhausted all other options, and what they are doing now is out of necessity, which IMO makes it justified.

[bigwheel]

I do not need "qualifications" every prisoner that has been released that i am aware of in the USA was done so on either evidence being bad, eye witness error or DNA becoming available. I think if a case had happened that said a man who was serving 30 years was finally released as the only reason he was jailed as he was Black might have popped up somewhere until then all the ones I know are evidence related.

CT, the judicial system is systemically weighted against Black people. There are many examples that people have been jailed just because they are black. Many ended up in death row, guilt regardless of evidence. Check out the case of Ray Hinton for example. There was actually a controlled experiment in the 80s. A dozen mock trials with exactly the same evidence ..some white accused, some black. The decisions were overwhelmingly worse for the black accused than the white. Race creates bias, often sub-conscious. It’s why I have read some of your posts here with some discomfort. Not because of your anti violence and destruction points. Completely agree with the spirit of those. It’s the apparent lack of recognition of the deep unfairness, inequalities and prejudice in the whole system weighted against African Americans...the balance doesn’t feel right in your posts.


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[Berwickhibby]

no offence, but it's not surprising that from this position you are against any form of riots - it's understandable, because your job was to stop them from happening, which would be an absolute nightmare.

i think the point about the protests/riots going on in the states just now is that they have pretty much exhausted all other options, and what they are doing now is out of necessity, which IMO makes it justified.

I have no problem with the protesting, I just saw a bunch of sheriffs on line marching with the protesters. Their cause is just but attacking and assaulting others and looting and setting fire to other innocent people’s property is inexcusable imho

[Mon Dieu4]

Thought this by Trevor Noah was a really good take on everything that's going on just now, it's quite long at 18 minutes but well worth a watch

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb4Bg8mu2aM

[lapsedhibee]

CT, the judicial system is systemically weighted against Black people. There are many examples that people have been jailed just because they are black. Many ended up in death row, guilt regardless of evidence. Check out the case of Ray Hinton for example. There was actually a controlled experiment in the 80s. A dozen mock trials with exactly the same evidence ..some white accused, some black. The decisions were overwhelmingly worse for the black accused than the white. Race creates bias, often sub-conscious. It’s why I have read some of your posts here with some discomfort. Not because of your anti violence and destruction points. Completely agree with the spirit of those. It’s the apparent lack of recognition of the deep unfairness, inequalities and prejudice in the whole system weighted against African Americans...the balance doesn’t feel right in your posts.


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CT is gone. Someone else will need to step up and argue for the rights of plate glass.

[Callum_62]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-52885964?__twitter_impression=true

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[Ozyhibby]

He just deployed the military against the people. Early steps towards cancelling elections.


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[matty_f]

He just deployed the military against the people. Early steps towards cancelling elections.


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He's a lunatic.

[silverhibee]

He just deployed the military against the people. Early steps towards cancelling elections.


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Against peaceful protesters so he could get a photo shoot outside a church holding a bible.

He is getting slaughtered by most Governors on CNN.

[hfc rd]

Horrible scenes happening in Washington right now.

Trump has turned America into a dictatorship.

[AT8]

He just deployed the military against the people. Early steps towards cancelling elections.


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Wrong. He has deployed the military to protect us law abiding citizens from the violence and destruction America is currently experiencing. I for one am extremely thankful for that.

[Callum_62]

Wrong. He has deployed the military to protect us law abiding citizens from the violence and destruction America is currently experiencing. I for one am extremely thankful for that.Are the military targeting the coppers?

[emoji849]

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[bigwheel]

Wrong. He has deployed the military to protect us law abiding citizens from the violence and destruction America is currently experiencing. I for one am extremely thankful for that.

Trump doesn’t care about you guys as citizens...he wants dis-unity. His whole strategy is to create a “them and us” battle in the US and to continue his hate campaign against the media. He has lost the battle against Covid, he has created over 30M unemployed...civil unrest is his last hope for reelection. That’s not the actions of a leader who cares about his people. It is only about him and power.

Edit: he just used rubber bullets and tear gas against an entirely peaceful protest at a church - so he could get a photo op at the church with a bible....is that the citizen protecting leadership you want from your president?


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[Hibrandenburg]

Wrong. He has deployed the military to protect us law abiding citizens from the violence and destruction America is currently experiencing. I for one am extremely thankful for that.

Just don't be surprised if some of those soldiers turn against Trump. It's one thing sending them abroad to fight, it's a completely different ball game setting them loose on your own people.

[Colr]

Just don't be surprised if some of those soldiers turn against Trump. It's one thing sending them abroad to fight, it's a completely different ball game setting them loose on your own people.

Have the American army been set on their own people before?

I suppose Tianenmen Square worked for China and he must have watched that on the TV

[Colr]

Horrible scenes happening in Washington right now.

Trump has turned America into a dictatorship.

Think he’ll suspend the election?

Maybe, if he thinks he’ll lose it.

[Bristolhibby]

Against peaceful protesters so he could get a photo shoot outside a church holding a bible.

He is getting slaughtered by most Governors on CNN.

Take the rage and vote him out!

Organise and vote. Vote like your life depends on it. (It does).

J

[Sylar]

Officers taking fire in St Louis from protestors - 4 officers shot.

Protestors rammed a car into police in New York State (after reports yesterday of a tanker driving at a group of protestors and videos of police ramming protestors with cars and horses).

Tear gas...****ing tear gas?!

[calumhibee1]

Trump doesn’t care about you guys as citizens...he wants dis-unity. His whole strategy is to create a “them and us” battle in the US and to continue his hate campaign against the media. He has lost the battle against Covid, he has created over 30M unemployed...civil unrest is his last hope for reelection. That’s not the actions of a leader who cares about his people. It is only about him and power.

Edit: he just used rubber bullets and tear gas against an entirely peaceful protest at a church - so he could get a photo op at the church with a bible....is that the citizen protecting leadership you want from your president?


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Trump will be re-elected whether there’s civil unrest or not imo.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/423243eef29fdeb1b3b0f3fa40323ea8.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/c417de6ba2543a77df12545002bf5471.jpg


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[bigwheel]

Trump will be re-elected whether there’s civil unrest or not imo.

That’s not what any polls now say

[Berwickhibby]

4 days to make a charge, with direct video evidence from within an hour of it happening.
4 days to charge one of four policemen, three of whom were kneeling on George Floyd at the same time, with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter.
4 days to charge one officer, who is expected to be bailed on a $50,000 bond today and be free to live his life until trial.

And people think that this single arrest and charge should appease decades of neglect and wrongdoing. No danger.

Ok, I was speaking to my mate on Skype yesterday who is in law enforcement in Montana. I asked his opinion on why 4 days to arrest, he basically explained that they needed the officers sacked and confirmed by the union they were no longer members prior to Miranda rights being issued. As the Union expensive lawyer team could throw motion after motion to surpress evidence forcing this to run for years also to avoid some sort of plea deal. I do not know if this is correct but it's what he told me.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/ladyhaja/status/1267726477275148288?s=21


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[The_Exile]

Some of the videos coming out of the US just now are just, well, it's like fiction, it's like a brutal film from some sick sadist. I only see police STARTING the riots, there's people just standing doing nothing and suddenly they're attacked and beaten by the police. There's one of a what looks to be a very young teenage girl getting grabbed by a cop and punched repeatedly in the head until it looks like she's unconscious. I know some of these have unkown provenance but if this is happening across the US I can only see this leading to an absolutely horrendous situation for every single citizen. Trump sounds like he's giving the police and military free reign to "quell" the uprising.

[Andy74]

Some of the videos coming out of the US just now are just, well, it's like fiction, it's like a brutal film from some sick sadist. I only see police STARTING the riots, there's people just standing doing nothing and suddenly they're attacked and beaten by the police. There's one of a what looks to be a very young teenage girl getting grabbed by a cop and punched repeatedly in the head until it looks like she's unconscious. I know some of these have unkown provenance but if this is happening across the US I can only see this leading to an absolutely horrendous situation for every single citizen. Trump sounds like he's giving the police and military free reign to "quell" the uprising.

It’s the danger with seeing clips on twitter without the context or lead up. I’ve no doubt the situation isn’t good but I don’t know that there are suddenly unprovoked attacks across the country on peaceful protests.

[The_Exile]

It’s the danger with seeing clips on twitter without the context or lead up. I’ve no doubt the situation isn’t good but I don’t know that there are suddenly unprovoked attacks across the country on peaceful protests.

I know, I'm wary of seeing a clip and thinking it's related, could be, could also be from years ago with just a small portion of the overall picture presented. Whatever is real or not, the US is in a real bad place at the moment and when you're looking for the president to bring the people together, well, nuff said.

[calumhibee1]

That’s not what any polls now say

Didn’t actually realise how close they were now. I still reckon he’ll get re-elected though.

[hfc rd]

Wrong. He has deployed the military to protect us law abiding citizens from the violence and destruction America is currently experiencing. I for one am extremely thankful for that.

Are you for real?

The racist **** has turned your country into a dictatorship unless that’s something that you want?

[Hibbyradge]

Are you for real?

The racist **** has turned your country into a dictatorship unless that’s something that you want?

Correct.

If he'd instructed the police not to murder unarmed black people, the current situation would not have happened.

[AT8]

Are you for real?

The racist **** has turned your country into a dictatorship unless that’s something that you want?

What I want is for my life not to be impacted by looting and arson. I completely agree that something has to be done to address the way minorities are dealt with by the police, but destroying businesses and public property is not the way to go about it.

[AT8]

Correct.

If he'd instructed the police not to murder unarmed black people, the current situation would not have happened.

That statement right there is the very definition of fake news. The Minneapolis Police Department's "Use of Force Policy" includes neck restraint as an option available to officers. Minneapolis is under Democrat control, therefore, this is not the fault of President Trump.

[Dalianwanda]

Trump wants martial law. Total control.

[Dalianwanda]

That statement right there is the very definition of fake news. The Minneapolis Police Department's "Use of Force Policy" includes neck restraint as an option available to officers. Minneapolis is under Democrat control, therefore, this is not the fault of President Trump.
As you well know it’s not just about this murder in this state.

[Berwickhibby]

That statement right there is the very definition of fake news. The Minneapolis Police Department's "Use of Force Policy" includes neck restraint as an option available to officers. Minneapolis is under Democrat control, therefore, this is not the fault of President Trump.

Stay safe buddy..... between the Covid19 and the rioting the US is not a safe place to be just now.

[AT8]

Stay safe buddy..... between the Covid19 and the rioting the US is not a safe place to be just now.

Thanks. I'm now giving some serious consideration to getting the hell out of here. Even before covid and the riots, I was starting to feel like this isn't a place I want to spend the rest of my life.

[Slavers]

Trump wants martial law. Total control.

You are right but try to think of Trump being a puppet. Just like Obama was a puppet.

The destruction of America is required to further the agenda.

[CapitalGreen]

You are right but try to think of Trump being a puppet. Just like Obama was a puppet.

The destruction of America is required to further the agenda.

By the worshippers of Lucifer am I right?

[Slavers]

By the worshippers of Lucifer am I right?

Yes pretty much.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm confused as to what is the correct way for minorities in the US to make their voices heard.

The NFL taking a knee protests were peaceful and the reaction was ludicrous. The man who was the face of that protest had been denied work in his chosen profession since. It somehow became disrespectful to veterans and there was a media pile on. The idea that 'politics should be kept out of football' was utterly moronic in a sport steeped in politics.

Peaceful protesters at the moment are being criticised for facilitating the riots and looting and of course the violent protests running concurrent are decried as abhorrent.

It seems to me it's a no win situation. Peaceful protest is ultimately futile around this issue and will be twisted to suit an agenda and violent protest is condemned. I can certainly see the temptation to lean towards the latter if you are going to be demonised either way.

[Vault Boy]

I'm confused as to what is the correct way for minorities in the US to make their voices heard.

The NFL taking a knee protests were peaceful and the reaction was ludicrous. The man who was the face of that protest had been denied work in his chosen profession since. It somehow became disrespectful to veterans and there was a media pile on. The idea that 'politics should be kept out of football' was utterly moronic in a sport steeped in politics.

Peaceful protesters at the moment are being criticised for facilitating the riots and looting and of course the violent protests running concurrent are decried as abhorrent.

It seems to me it's a no win situation. Peaceful protest is ultimately futile around this issue and will be twisted to suit an agenda and violent protest is condemned. I can certainly see the temptation to lean towards the latter if you are going to be demonised either way.

This is spot on. It's an utterly no-win situation for BAME folk in the USA right now. They're consistently villainised by the same old suspects, regardless of their method of vocalising their discontent. The truth is, a lot of the people who are purely focused on criticising the minority of those participating in the violent sections of the riots are the same people who chastised Colin Kaepernick for a peaceful demonstration. Those that fit this category are very simply racist to the core.

Unfortunately, a huge number of these 'usual suspects' hold elected office throughout the various levels of government in the States, not least of all the President himself, perpetuating the institutional nature of this issue. Race-relations remain at the starting stretch of a long road to recovery. All we can really do right now is be vigilant in calling out abusive behaviours where we see them at home, and be vocal in our support of those fighting the bigger issues.

[CapitalGreen]

Yes pretty much.

Thought so. I’ve always found the idea of Luciferianism to be poorly understood by people, what’s your thoughts on it?

[-Jonesy-]

Thought so. I’ve always found the idea of Luciferianism to be poorly understood by people, what’s your thoughts on it?

I’ll get the tinfoil

[jonty]

.

[stokesmessiah]

What I want is for my life not to be impacted by looting and arson. I completely agree that something has to be done to address the way minorities are dealt with by the police, but destroying businesses and public property is not the way to go about it.

Wow. Out of interest if your family, friends etc were getting murdered in the cold light of day and some shops were getting smashed up, wonder if this is still your take on it!! Why is it so easy for people to be outraged by the riots but when it comes to blacks people being killed unjustly “something needs done about it”

[stokesmessiah]

That statement right there is the very definition of fake news. The Minneapolis Police Department's "Use of Force Policy" includes neck restraint as an option available to officers. Minneapolis is under Democrat control, therefore, this is not the fault of President Trump.

You are just reading what you want now. He quite clearly means if trump had come out swinging about real change, this wouldn’t be happening now. But that wouldn’t appeal to the absolute tools that vote him in.

[AT8]

Wow. Out of interest if your family, friends etc were getting murdered in the cold light of day and some shops were getting smashed up, wonder if this is still your take on it!! Why is it so easy for people to be outraged by the riots but when it comes to blacks people being killed unjustly “something needs done about it”

This isn't a case of "some shops getting smashed up", this is full on anarchy.

[AT8]

You are just reading what you want now. He quite clearly means if trump had come out swinging about real change, this wouldn’t be happening now. But that wouldn’t appeal to the absolute tools that vote him in.

Trump doesn't control individual Police Municipalities. He's already instructed the D.O.J. to investigate the George Floyd incident, what more do you want him to do?

You can dispense with the "absolute tools" moniker as well. You don't live here, so you don't get to judge other people on why they chose to vote a certain way.

[-Jonesy-]

Trump doesn't control individual Police Municipalities. He's already instructed the D.O.J. to investigate the George Floyd incident, what more do you want him to do?

You can dispense with the "absolute tools" moniker as well. You don't live here, so you don't get to judge other people on why they chose to vote a certain way.

He could admit and denounce police brutality directed at minorities.
He could rescind his support for white nationalists he calls “very fine people”
He could pull his tiny handed finger out his orange arse and do something to try and quell the division and anger rather than make threats of pure political theatre.
He could try and stop being a self obsessed child and act like a president.

That would be the least I would expect.

[hibsbollah]

Trump doesn't control individual Police Municipalities. He's already instructed the D.O.J. to investigate the George Floyd incident, what more do you want him to do?

You can dispense with the "absolute tools" moniker as well. You don't live here, so you don't get to judge other people on why they chose to vote a certain way.

You don’t get to claim wisdom because you live in the US.
I lived and worked across the US, and it doesn’t give me any special monopoly on wisdom about the political situation there. I just judge with my own eyes. I can watch Trumps madcap performances and read his tweets. I can also watch a man being murdered for 9 minutes on YouTube.
This is a global issue now. People are watching your country slip into fascism.

[stokesmessiah]

This isn't a case of "some shops getting smashed up", this is full on anarchy.

Part of the problem. Notice you didn’t answer.

[AT8]

Part of the problem. Notice you didn’t answer.

My family and friends wouldn't be getting murdered by police because they don't engage in criminal activity. I'm not for a minute suggesting that the police have the power to administer the death sentence, but a blind man can see that if you don't engage in criminal activity, you won't encounter police brutality.

[AT8]

He could admit and denounce police brutality directed at minorities.
He could rescind his support for white nationalists he calls “very fine people”
He could pull his tiny handed finger out his orange arse and do something to try and quell the division and anger rather than make threats of pure political theatre.
He could try and stop being a self obsessed child and act like a president.

That would be the least I would expect.

Once again, fake news is being used here. He said there were fine people on both sides, which is absolutely correct. The nazis and antifa are both equally ****, however, there were good people there to counter protest and there were good people who put value in historical monuments.

When a leader sees his nation being destroyed by anarchists, he has to take control and that's what he is trying to do. There can be no discussions on how to move forward until this anarchy is stopped.

[hibsbollah]

My family and friends wouldn't be getting murdered by police because they don't engage in criminal activity. I'm not for a minute suggesting that the police have the power to administer the death sentence, but a blind man can see that if you don't engage in criminal activity, you won't encounter police brutality.

This is hilariously wrong. 1. In a normal society if you engage in criminal activity you are prosecuted by the legal system, you don’t get brutalised, nor murdered. 2. Ahmaud wasn’t engaging in criminal activity, he was going for a jog. The 9 minute asphyxiation? What criminal activity was that the answer to? 3. Are you actually unaware of how prevalent police brutality is against ALL black Americans? 4. It is not criminal activity to peacefully demonstrate. 5. You’re an apologist.

[AT8]

You don’t get to claim wisdom because you live in the US.
I lived and worked across the US, and it doesn’t give me any special monopoly on wisdom about the political situation there. I just judge with my own eyes. I can watch Trumps madcap performances and read his tweets. I can also watch a man being murdered for 9 minutes on YouTube.
This is a global issue now. People are watching your country slip into fascism.

I'm not claiming wisdom, I'm asking someone to stop insulting people when he doesn't know why people vote a certain way.

[Vault Boy]

My family and friends wouldn't be getting murdered by police because they don't engage in criminal activity. I'm not for a minute suggesting that the police have the power to administer the death sentence, but a blind man can see that if you don't engage in criminal activity, you won't encounter police brutality.

Nonsense. Try telling that to Breonna Taylor, the nurse who was murdered by police in her own home after they entered the wrong house.

[AT8]

This is hilariously wrong. 1. In a normal society if you engage in criminal activity you are prosecuted by the legal system, you don’t get brutalised, nor murdered. 2. Ahmaud wasn’t engaging in criminal activity, he was going for a jog. The 9 minute asphyxiation? What criminal activity was that the answer to? 3. Are you actually unaware of how prevalent police brutality is against ALL black Americans? 4. It is not criminal activity to peacefully demonstrate. 5. You’re an apologist.

1) I have already stated that there is an issue with the way minorities are dealt with by the police and that it MUST be addressed. I agree that when you are apprehended by law enforcement, it is not up to the individual officers to be judge, jury and executioner.

2) Ahmaud had been trespassing (YES, NOT PUNISHABLE BY DEATH). It appears that Floyd had been resisting arrest after being apprehended for using forged bank notes (YES, NOT PUNISHABLE BY DEATH).

3) I'd be interested to hear some examples of brutality against minorities who weren't engaging in a criminal act.

4) That is correct, but throwing objects at police officers, looting and arson are classed as criminal activities.

5) What does that even mean?

[Callum_62]

Once again, fake news is being used here. He said there were fine people on both sides, which is absolutely correct. The nazis and antifa are both equally ****, however, there were good people there to counter protest and there were good people who put value in historical monuments.

When a leader sees his nation being destroyed by anarchists, he has to take control and that's what he is trying to do. There can be no discussions on how to move forward until this anarchy is stopped.Ah, the old take something stupid trump says and try and twist it to reason

Nice one.

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[Pretty Boy]

My family and friends wouldn't be getting murdered by police because they don't engage in criminal activity. I'm not for a minute suggesting that the police have the power to administer the death sentence, but a blind man can see that if you don't engage in criminal activity, you won't encounter police brutality.

That is just simply not true though is it? Was David McAtee engaging in criminal activity when he was shot dead?

[hibsbollah]

I'm not claiming wisdom, I'm asking someone to stop insulting people when he doesn't know why people vote a certain way.

You said ‘you don’t live here, so you don’t get to judge’. Sorry, but we DO get to judge. The whole world. That’s why US diplomats all over Africa are being torn to shreds (metaphorically) by their hosts,that’s why totalitarian states across the globe are delighted, because it pushes the US even farther away from being able to demand morality or human rights standards from others.

[AT8]

You said ‘you don’t live here, so you don’t get to judge’. Sorry, but we DO get to judge. The whole world. That’s why US diplomats all over Africa are being torn to shreds (metaphorically) by their hosts,that’s why totalitarian states across the globe are delighted, because it pushes the US even farther away from being able to demand morality or human rights standards from others.

Once again, I said you don't get to call people "absolute tools" and judge their voting choice. I stand by what I said.