The Last Dance

[MacGruber]

Watching and thoroughly enjoying The Last Dance documentary on Netflix. Never seen an NBA game or know basketball but like anyone else knew of Michael Jordan - just never knew how good he was and more than anything else his relentless winning mentality.

At one point guy getting interviewed said something like the only comparisons to Jordan were Babe Ruth, Muhammad Ali & John McGinn (or words to that affect). Who else would be on the all time great lists in sports - GOAT as Americans would say?

[AugustaHibs]

Watching and thoroughly enjoying The Last Dance documentary on Netflix. Never seen an NBA game or know basketball but like anyone else knew of Michael Jordan - just never knew how good he was and more than anything else his relentless winning mentality.

At one point guy getting interviewed said something like the only comparisons to Jordan were Babe Ruth, Muhammad Ali & John McGinn (or words to that affect). Who else would be on the all time great lists in sports - GOAT as Americans would say?

Iron mike is up there

[Edina Erin]

I’ve been really enjoying this series - my son plays Basketball and Monday night has become the most anticipated day of the week when 2 episodes are released.

The drive and determination of Jordan is amazing. He always looked for a sign or statement from an opponent to get him motivated - and when there wasn’t anything, he’d make it up.

It’s hard to think of an individual having such an influence on a team consistently. You can then about Roy Keane against Juve in the semi of the CL, or Beckham against Greece, but these were one offs. Jordan was having this kind of impact every time he played.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Kavinho]

Iron mike is up there

not for me. One 1 "Greatest", and that's clearly Ali.


Seve.

[bingo70]

not for me. One 1 "Greatest", and that's clearly Ali.


Seve.

Jack Nicklaus would surely be ahead of Seve wouldn’t he?

Both in their prime just before my time so happy to be corrected on that front, that is my perception though

[hibsbollah]

It’s up there with the very best sports documentaries, I’m loving it. And I’m not even a fan of the sport! I’m just rewatching it a few days after finishing it, for the benefit of my son. The next two episodes going up tomorrow I think.

On the other matter, There is no way Tyson (or Woods or Nicklaus or Earnhardt or anyone else) is in there with Ali Ruth and Jordan. Those three changed society along with global reach.

[bingo70]

Watching and thoroughly enjoying The Last Dance documentary on Netflix. Never seen an NBA game or know basketball but like anyone else knew of Michael Jordan - just never knew how good he was and more than anything else his relentless winning mentality.

At one point guy getting interviewed said something like the only comparisons to Jordan were Babe Ruth, Muhammad Ali & John McGinn (or words to that affect). Who else would be on the all time great lists in sports - GOAT as Americans would say?

Would Carl Lewis be up there? For his generation I remember him being a big deal.

[EdinMike]

I’ve heard from several American friends that this documentary was worth watching, and I sorta brushed it off not knowing much about Basketball except from knowing about Jordan, Shaq, Bryant and LeBron.

I guess I’ll give this a little binge now !

[Hakim Sar]

Tom Brady has arguably gone past MJ, as he has won championships and reached super bowls over a 20 year period, and with an ever changing supporting cast. His mental obsession with winning is perhaps only matched by Tiger Woods.

The Mount Rushmore of American sports is perhaps Brady, Woods, The Bambino, MJ, and Ali?

I wouldn’t have Mike Tyson anywhere close... lost a lot of his legacy fights against his peers, regardless of his distractions, we can’t wonder what if, we can only see what is.

Honourable mentions maybe for Carl Lewis, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis, Jack Nicklaus and Joe Montana.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Don't know too much about grid iron football but surely Tom Brady must be up there.

[hibsbollah]

Don't know too much about grid iron football but surely Tom Brady must be up there.

The comparison from the programme is about global reach. Jordan was the biggest name on the planet, Babe Ruth did world tours, Ali changed politics. Tom Brady is still unknown across most of the world despite having that ‘win thing’.

[RyeSloan]

The comparison from the programme is about global reach. Jordan was the biggest name on the planet, Babe Ruth did world tours, Ali changed politics. Tom Brady is still unknown across most of the world despite having that ‘win thing’.

Suppose it’s depends if, as per the OP might have been suggesting, you are looking for the greatest of all time in their respective sports....or as you are suggesting a sportsman that changed and shaped the world for whatever reason.

The two may or may not be the same!

Then you have generational differences when it comes to naming just one player from one sport in all of its history.


So I know I need to watch the programme to understand what Jordan did to change the world but to be honest all that I’m currently aware of was that he was very good at basketball and made Nike a shed load of dough!

In golf it’s hard to argue that Nicklaus or Woods are probably right up there but then there is Seve who’s style was a revelation and who was the first European to win the Masters, changing how the golf world saw non US golfers forever ..the thought of a poor Spaniard romping to the top of golf then was almost unthinkable.

But then you could go all the way back to the 30’s and the likes of Walter Hagen who was famous for his swashbuckling, establishment busting winning golf. Few did more to promote the rights of the professional and to ensure golf clubs treated the pro’s and their game with respect. So if it wasn’t for the likes of Hagen forcing the clubs to at least let the pro’s use the dressing room and the crowds his style brought maybe there would have not have been such a fertile ground for Jack, Tiger or Seve to excel on!

[bigwheel]

I’ve heard from several American friends that this documentary was worth watching, and I sorta brushed it off not knowing much about Basketball except from knowing about Jordan, Shaq, Bryant and LeBron.

I guess I’ll give this a little binge now !

I knew nothing about basketball, but we have loved it ..great story and the footage has made us really connect with basketball -

Recommend it

[Keith_M]

Jack Nicklaus would surely be ahead of Seve wouldn’t he?

Both in their prime just before my time so happy to be corrected on that front, that is my perception though


Tiger Woods has won the second most majors.

If it wasn't for the scandal of all his blonde girlfriends a few years back, he would probably have won a lot more.

[heidtheba]

Senna.

[One Day Soon]

Suppose it’s depends if, as per the OP might have been suggesting, you are looking for the greatest of all time in their respective sports....or as you are suggesting a sportsman that changed and shaped the world for whatever reason.

The two may or may not be the same!

Then you have generational differences when it comes to naming just one player from one sport in all of its history.


So I know I need to watch the programme to understand what Jordan did to change the world but to be honest all that I’m currently aware of was that he was very good at basketball and made Nike a shed load of dough!

In golf it’s hard to argue that Nicklaus or Woods are probably right up there but then there is Seve who’s style was a revelation and who was the first European to win the Masters, changing how the golf world saw non US golfers forever ..the thought of a poor Spaniard romping to the top of golf then was almost unthinkable.

But then you could go all the way back to the 30’s and the likes of Walter Hagen who was famous for his swashbuckling, establishment busting winning golf. Few did more to promote the rights of the professional and to ensure golf clubs treated the pro’s and their game with respect. So if it wasn’t for the likes of Hagen forcing the clubs to at least let the pro’s use the dressing room and the crowds his style brought maybe there would have not have been such a fertile ground for Jack, Tiger or Seve to excel on!


It would be absolutely astonishing not to include Jesse Owens in such a list. He scores at every level - excelling in his sport, societal impact and strength of achievement relative to opportunity and origins. Arguably a stronger contender even than Ali - and I absolutely love Ali - but from an age past that most people don't automatically remember.

To shove it right up Hitler and the Nazis in their own back yard, demonstrate the inanity of racial prejudice, win Olympic golds, set world records (four in a period of under one hour) and still face marginalisation due to domestic racism with a fair degree of dignity is quite something.

[Michael]

Tiger Woods has won the second most majors.

If it wasn't for the scandal of all his blonde girlfriends a few years back, he would probably have won a lot more.

I would consider Woods up there with the greats like Ali. People with no interest in golf will watch Tiger and he one of the most famous sportsmen ever.

I would say the same of Rodger Federer. Nadal and Djokovic may surpass his record of grand slams - but neither of them have the adoration Federer has across the world.

[Pretty Boy]

The comparison from the programme is about global reach. Jordan was the biggest name on the planet, Babe Ruth did world tours, Ali changed politics. Tom Brady is still unknown across most of the world despite having that ‘win thing’.

I'm probably biased but in American Football terms Dan Marino may be a shout. Changed the way the game was played in many ways, was a star in a good team and elevated a team that was in decline to be better than it should have been. Had some crossover appeal in pop culture (Ace Ventura, The Simpsons, Little Nicky, Hootie and the Blowfish videos).

He's still nowhere near being at the same table as Ali, Jordan et al though.

[hibsbollah]

Suppose it’s depends if, as per the OP might have been suggesting, you are looking for the greatest of all time in their respective sports....or as you are suggesting a sportsman that changed and shaped the world for whatever reason.

The two may or may not be the same!

Then you have generational differences when it comes to naming just one player from one sport in all of its history.


So I know I need to watch the programme to understand what Jordan did to change the world but to be honest all that I’m currently aware of was that he was very good at basketball and made Nike a shed load of dough!

In golf it’s hard to argue that Nicklaus or Woods are probably right up there but then there is Seve who’s style was a revelation and who was the first European to win the Masters, changing how the golf world saw non US golfers forever ..the thought of a poor Spaniard romping to the top of golf then was almost unthinkable.

But then you could go all the way back to the 30’s and the likes of Walter Hagen who was famous for his swashbuckling, establishment busting winning golf. Few did more to promote the rights of the professional and to ensure golf clubs treated the pro’s and their game with respect. So if it wasn’t for the likes of Hagen forcing the clubs to at least let the pro’s use the dressing room and the crowds his style brought maybe there would have not have been such a fertile ground for Jack, Tiger or Seve to excel on!

This is true, there are different measurements going on. If you are judging on domination of your chosen sport, Phil 'The Power' Taylor would score high, but if we're talking transcending into being a global iconoclast, maybe not:greengrin

Jesse Owens is a good shout. I dont know much about how recognised he was outside of the US, there will be a good book on the subject im sure.

[Frazerbob]

Iron mike is up there

Not a chance. The Tyson love-in at the moment is hilarious. Selective memories all over the shop. Prime Tyson was amazing. Unfortunately prime Tyson lasted way too few years and the embarrassing and shambolic non prime Tyson lasted way too many years for him to be considered a GOAT.

[RyeSloan]

This is true, there are different measurements going on. If you are judging on domination of your chosen sport, Phil 'The Power' Taylor would score high, but if we're talking transcending into being a global iconoclast, maybe not:greengrin

Jesse Owens is a good shout. I dont know much about how recognised he was outside of the US, there will be a good book on the subject im sure.

Aha fair shout on The Power [emoji23]

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Watching and thoroughly enjoying The Last Dance documentary on Netflix. Never seen an NBA game or know basketball but like anyone else knew of Michael Jordan - just never knew how good he was and more than anything else his relentless winning mentality.

At one point guy getting interviewed said something like the only comparisons to Jordan were Babe Ruth, Muhammad Ali & John McGinn (or words to that affect). Who else would be on the all time great lists in sports - GOAT as Americans would say?

The Irrepressible Larry Bird - I think even Jordan acknowledges Bird is the man...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebx61XuFGX8 He fired one in from behind the back board in regular season as well.

https://youtu.be/5NlLaDoCRZ4

He was just a machine.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I’ve heard from several American friends that this documentary was worth watching, and I sorta brushed it off not knowing much about Basketball except from knowing about Jordan, Shaq, Bryant and LeBron.

I guess I’ll give this a little binge now !

Watch the YouTube retrospectives on Larry Bird and let me know what you reckon... genuinely interested.

[Eyrie]

It would be absolutely astonishing not to include Jesse Owens in such a list. He scores at every level - excelling in his sport, societal impact and strength of achievement relative to opportunity and origins. Arguably a stronger contender even than Ali - and I absolutely love Ali - but from an age past that most people don't automatically remember.

To shove it right up Hitler and the Nazis in their own back yard, demonstrate the inanity of racial prejudice, win Olympic golds, set world records (four in a period of under one hour) and still face marginalisation due to domestic racism with a fair degree of dignity is quite something.

Agreed.

For the NFL, Brady is a modern choice but it's Rice, not Montana or Marino, who is usually referred to as the GOAT.

[PatHead]

Aha fair shout on The Power [emoji23]

Jocky Wilson as well. Gave hope to all wee fat drunken Scotsmen.

[Hakim Sar]

I'm probably biased but in American Football terms Dan Marino may be a shout. Changed the way the game was played in many ways, was a star in a good team and elevated a team that was in decline to be better than it should have been. Had some crossover appeal in pop culture (Ace Ventura, The Simpsons, Little Nicky, Hootie and the Blowfish videos).

He's still nowhere near being at the same table as Ali, Jordan et al though.

There’s a strong argument that Dan Marino isn’t in the top 5 quarterbacks of all time. Many wouldn’t have him in the top 10 either.

I, however, totally agree that he changed the game somewhat. Unfortunately, he didn’t feature in the dolphins most successful team and that will always overshadow him.

I totally agree with a previous poster... the Mike Tyson love in at the moment is a bit unusual!

Jesse Owens definitely. What a man.

As an aside, my grandfather trained Tommie Smith and John Carlos and regularly had them down at Portobello beach and other sites around Edinburgh for training. Breakfast was raw eggs in whisky which is quite funny.

Crazy to think that the two athletes involved in perhaps THE most political sporting photograph ever have such connections with Edinburgh! My grandfather even tried to talk him out of doing the protest. Pretty sure it was discussed by telephone as Tommie had since moved on from my grandad and had climbed the ladder, so to speak!

[CMurdoch]

There’s a strong argument that Dan Marino isn’t in the top 5 quarterbacks of all time. Many wouldn’t have him in the top 10 either.

I, however, totally agree that he changed the game somewhat. Unfortunately, he didn’t feature in the dolphins most successful team and that will always overshadow him.

I totally agree with a previous poster... the Mike Tyson love in at the moment is a bit unusual!

Jesse Owens definitely. What a man.

As an aside, my grandfather trained Tommie Smith and John Carlos and regularly had them down at Portobello beach and other sites around Edinburgh for training. Breakfast was raw eggs in whisky which is quite funny.

Crazy to think that the two athletes involved in perhaps THE most political sporting photograph ever have such connections with Edinburgh! My grandfather even tried to talk him out of doing the protest. Pretty sure it was discussed by telephone as Tommie had since moved on from my grandad and had climbed the ladder, so to speak!

What was your grandfathers name?
There are 3 athletes in the famous photograph.
Tommie and John gave eulogies and were pallbearers at the third athlete Peter Norman's funeral in Australia in 2006.
I met Tommie Smith in Jedburgh in 1972 and as far as I know he hadn't been to Scotland before.

[Hakim Sar]

What was your grandfathers name?
There are 3 athletes in the famous photograph.
Tommie and John were pallbearers at the third athlete Peter Norman's funeral in 2006.
I met Tommie Smith in Jedburgh in 1972.

William McCartney - a good Hibs name !!!!!!

[CMurdoch]

William McCartney - a good Hibs name !!!!!!

It is, manager of the club between 1936 and his death in 1948.
I think someone has been yankin' yer chain on the Tommie Smith, John Carlos story.

[Hakim Sar]

It is, manager of the club between 1936 and his death in 1948.
I think someone has been yankin' yer chain on the Tommie Smith, John Carlos story.

Disappointing you think that.

My grandad was an athletics coach specialising in sprinting. Tommie lived with my grandad on quite a few occasions. Anyways, not a debate to be had on a public forum.

[Hibee87]

Really enjoying this. Just started the 4th episode. Not a huge knowledge of basketball, but enjoy playing it in school, everyone knew MJ in the 90's I had my fair share of bulls kit growing up. Great doc so far

[wpj]

What was your grandfathers name?
There are 3 athletes in the famous photograph.
Tommie and John gave eulogies and were pallbearers at the third athlete Peter Norman's funeral in Australia in 2006.
I met Tommie Smith in Jedburgh in 1972 and as far as I know he hadn't been to Scotland before.

Apparantly Peter Norman was blanked by Australian sports after that but wow, what a courageous man as were Tommie and John. Iconic statement, shame things haven't changed that much for African Americans

[Steve-O]

I don’t like basketball AT ALL but have been enjoying this show I must admit.

[McD]

Babe Ruth changed how athletes/sports men were viewed, as well as dominating a sport

Ali dominated his sport and showed that athletes could change how situations are viewed politically, and gave athletes a platform to express their views

jordan dominated a sport and paved the way for endorsements, multimedia domination, marketing, fundamentally changed how basketball was played and assessed by its fans/commentators/owners, and became the first black athlete to break the glass ceiling to majority ownership, after becoming arguably the first player to dramatically extend his business dealing beyond the sport whilst still competing and dominating that sport


the way the world is now, with social media, 24 hour news, internet access readily available, I think it will be hard for another athlete to have the impact that these three had. Pele has a somewhat similar impact on the world of international football, but not really club football.

i think the only way an athlete joins these 3, is to dominate a sport (probably has to be a different sport from these 3 in order to not simply be described as the next xyz or accused of riding their coattails), and then either become some kind of global humanitarian (Bill gates esque possibly), or to rise to the very top of politics (White House level) and be seen as a force for tremendous good

just my thoughts lol

[Itsnoteasy]

A young Jordan approached Adidas as he wanted to wear their merchandise. They passed on this one & the rest is history.

Maybe he seen the iconic Hibs strip back in the day & thought this is the brand for me.

[jacomo]

Senna.


Closer to home, Jim Clark.

A sheep farmer from the Borders with supreme natural ability, humility and work ethic.

Even Fangio rated him the best.

[Keith_M]

OJ Simpson is a US sports star that will be long remembered.

[bingo70]

A young Jordan approached Adidas as he wanted to wear their merchandise. They passed on this one & the rest is history.

Maybe he seen the iconic Hibs strip back in the day & thought this is the brand for me.

I’ve just watched that episode. It was around the time there was a lot of infighting at Adidas and their organisation was a shambles at the time apparently.

Anyone know if that was around the time there was some split in the camp that lead to the creation of Adidas equipment? I may have got the story or the timelines wrong there but seem to remember hearing something about big fall outs internally at Adidas.

[hibsbollah]

A young Jordan approached Adidas as he wanted to wear their merchandise. They passed on this one & the rest is history.

Maybe he seen the iconic Hibs strip back in the day & thought this is the brand for me.

I had family in the pacific north west growing up, my aunts cousin worked for Nike when they were just an athletic brand, the idea of Nike as fashion was laughable. I used to go around in Nike swoosh sweatshirts she gave me in about 83? when it was a bit of a geeky look :faf: Exactly the way it was described in the documentary.

[heidtheba]

Closer to home, Jim Clark.

A sheep farmer from the Borders with supreme natural ability, humility and work ethic.

Even Fangio rated him the best.

Good shout. Clark wins it on sportsmanship. Senna wins it on impact. I know the Senna Foundation was in its embryonic stages when he was alive, but the direction came from him and the impact he’s had on the lives of children in Brazil is almost unbelievable.

[CMurdoch]

Apparantly Peter Norman was blanked by Australian sports after that but wow, what a courageous man as were Tommie and John. Iconic statement, shame things haven't changed that much for African Americans

Both Tommie Smith & John Carlos have written books and there is a film "The Salute".

Both played American Football for a couple of seasons after 1968, at the conclusion of which Smith became a professional runner and in 1972 came to the UK and ran in Wakefield against ex Hibs player and World Class sprinter George McNeill fae Tranent. They ran 4 races and George won the series 3-1. Smith also took a trip to the Jedburgh Professional Sports but the fools wouldn't let him run because he hadn't entered 2 weeks before the event. Fools and rules comes to mind.

John Carlos came to Edinburgh in 2012 (was across for the Olympics) to give a talk about the civil rights movement and the podium incidents part in it.

Peter Norman's story is sadder. Appears to gone off the rails, marriage broke down and he became an alcoholic and died young. The blazers in the Australian Olympic movement would have disapproved of his part in the podium incident and there are stories about his non selection for the 1972 games in Munich. What is certainly true is that the Australian Olympic committee did not invite him to the Sydney games of 2000 unless he paid for his own tickets. The Americans eventually invited him.