Does Scottish Football need a radical re-shape?

[theonlywayisup]

Now that the fighting has hopefully stopped, the question has to be asked does Scottish Football need a radical re-shape?

Everything that's been discussed to date has been a reaction to events imposed on us by Covid-19. However, that doesn't diminish the fact that Scottish Football has stagnated for years. We've had many strategic reviews and false dawns. Yet, we never seem to get it right!

Six years ago, Barry Hearn gave an address at Hampden. "I'm not an expert on Scottish football," he told his audience of club chairmen, chief executives and managing directors, "and listening to your [financial] figures it doesn't seem like you are either."

Hearn told them "I'm selling out darts arenas for a sport that's not visible to the naked eye. I'm saying to the world, 'You need to be involved in this'. I can sell live fishing. Live fishing! I'm good and you're not good enough."

Six years ago, he said "The fact that you've got a Scottish Premiership without a sponsor [that is now the situation again], do you know how long you'd work for Barry Hearn if that was the case? You wouldn't have time to take your coat off. You'd be in the car park."

How do we change this?

Do we need a "Barry Hearn" type person to help move Scottish Football forward? The current infighting can only be bad for Scottish Football, which probably highlights that many put self interest ahead of the greater good. So, how do we break this selfish view?

[Waxy]

Now that the fighting has hopefully stopped, the question has to be asked does Scottish Football need a radical re-shape?

Everything that's been discussed to date has been a reaction to events imposed on us by Covid-19. However, that doesn't diminish the fact that Scottish Football has stagnated for years. We've had many strategic reviews and false dawns. Yet, we never seem to get it right!

Six years ago, Barry Hearn gave an address at Hampden. "I'm not an expert on Scottish football," he told his audience of club chairmen, chief executives and managing directors, "and listening to your [financial] figures it doesn't seem like you are either."

Hearn told them "I'm selling out darts arenas for a sport that's not visible to the naked eye. I'm saying to the world, 'You need to be involved in this'. I can sell live fishing. Live fishing! I'm good and you're not good enough."

Six years ago, he said "The fact that you've got a Scottish Premiership without a sponsor [that is now the situation again], do you know how long you'd work for Barry Hearn if that was the case? You wouldn't have time to take your coat off. You'd be in the car park."

How do we change this?

Do we need a "Barry Hearn" type person to help move Scottish Football forward? The current infighting can only be bad for Scottish Football, which probably highlights that many put self interest ahead of the greater good. So, how do we break this selfish view?


Scottish football will always have problems until................

[tonyrougier123]

Aye it does imo.

Summer football starting this time of year would be worth trying surely.
Also a bigger league set up as just now playing 3 or four times a season is stale and boring,again my opinion.
A critical thinker and a few good ex pros could come up with a good brand and set up,not your billy dodds or alan preston types though.I'm talking guys who think outside the box from world football.
Nothing will happen though,games coasting up here,and the sfa are too concerned with following the english game.

[neil7908]

Yes - first, get rid of the OF.

[007]

Now that the fighting has hopefully stopped, the question has to be asked does Scottish Football need a radical re-shape?

Everything that's been discussed to date has been a reaction to events imposed on us by Covid-19. However, that doesn't diminish the fact that Scottish Football has stagnated for years. We've had many strategic reviews and false dawns. Yet, we never seem to get it right!

Six years ago, Barry Hearn gave an address at Hampden. "I'm not an expert on Scottish football," he told his audience of club chairmen, chief executives and managing directors, "and listening to your [financial] figures it doesn't seem like you are either."

Hearn told them "I'm selling out darts arenas for a sport that's not visible to the naked eye. I'm saying to the world, 'You need to be involved in this'. I can sell live fishing. Live fishing! I'm good and you're not good enough."

Six years ago, he said "The fact that you've got a Scottish Premiership without a sponsor [that is now the situation again], do you know how long you'd work for Barry Hearn if that was the case? You wouldn't have time to take your coat off. You'd be in the car park."

How do we change this?

Do we need a "Barry Hearn" type person to help move Scottish Football forward? The current infighting can only be bad for Scottish Football, which probably highlights that many put self interest ahead of the greater good. So, how do we break this selfish view?

No it doesn't. Don't fall for the Tom English narrative. We've got a record £160m tv deal and crowds are at their highest levels for about 50 years. I wouldn't call that stagnated.

[HoboHarry]

I need a bloody reshape after this lockdown and over eating.....

[jacomo]

No it doesn't. Don't fall for the Tom English narrative. We've got a record £160m tv deal and crowds are at their highest levels for about 50 years. I wouldn't call that stagnated.


Yep these are certainly inconvenient facts for those trying to force through reconstruction in a hurry.

[Smartie]

I'm glass half full when it comes to Scottish football.

Not remotely interested in Celtic or Rangers - but they've had half-decent seasons in Europe and the league title looked quite competitive until the huns imploded.

Aberdeen, ourselves, Dundee United - newish American owners, some new thinking, promise of investment in players and infrastructure. IMO it's this size of club that have let Scotland down for 20 years or so. The big clubs have done fine, the wee clubs have done fine but it is pitiful that these clubs have won so little, have challenged the OF so little and done so little in Europe. They need to get a grip and achieve much more.

St Johnstone, Motherwell, Killie - smallish clubs that punch above their weight often.

St Mirren, Hamilton, Ross County, Livingston - do very well with little resource.

We could do with the likes of Dunfermline, Dundee, Falkirk and Morton pushing on and doing more, they are decent sized clubs who are languishing a bit.

Last season's league was competitive on all fronts and I don't think it needs to be changed much.

I'm open to the idea of summer football but understand why so many are against it.

I think there should be an extra promotion/relegation place from the premier league/ championship.

We need to get plastic pitches to f***.

Other than that we're doing fine.

I even think the national team is on the point of looking decent - Leigh Griffiths screwing the nut and a couple of centre halves emerging and I think we're there.



So it only really looks gloomy from a Hearts perspective - and they might bounce back after a year. Rangers are never getting near Celtic and they can't die again fast enough.

I think we'd largely be making change for change's sake and when we're looking on the up, it is so typically Scottish for us to be talking ourselves down, giving ourselves a kicking and pretending we're worse than we are.

Even now, with the whole relegation kerfuffle going on it is interesting - it's almost impressive that they can still make Scottish football captivating without a ball being kicked.

It's small time and parochial and I love it.

[PatHead]

For me it does. Coronavirus has highlighted the need for hot water at Easter Road.

[PatHead]

I'm glass half full when it comes to Scottish football.

Not remotely interested in Celtic or Rangers - but they've had half-decent seasons in Europe and the league title looked quite competitive until the huns imploded.

Aberdeen, ourselves, Dundee United - newish American owners, some new thinking, promise of investment in players and infrastructure. IMO it's this size of club that have let Scotland down for 20 years or so. The big clubs have done fine, the wee clubs have done fine but it is pitiful that these clubs have won so little, have challenged the OF so little and done so little in Europe. They need to get a grip and achieve much more.

St Johnstone, Motherwell, Killie - smallish clubs that punch above their weight often.

St Mirren, Hamilton, Ross County, Livingston - do very well with little resource.

We could do with the likes of Dunfermline, Dundee, Falkirk and Morton pushing on and doing more, they are decent sized clubs who are languishing a bit.

Last season's league was competitive on all fronts and I don't think it needs to be changed much.

I'm open to the idea of summer football but understand why so many are against it.

I think there should be an extra promotion/relegation place from the premier league/ championship.

We need to get plastic pitches to f***.

Other than that we're doing fine.

I even think the national team is on the point of looking decent - Leigh Griffiths screwing the nut and a couple of centre halves emerging and I think we're there.



So it only really looks gloomy from a Hearts perspective - and they might bounce back after a year. Rangers are never getting near Celtic and they can't die again fast enough.

I think we'd largely be making change for change's sake and when we're looking on the up, it is so typically Scottish for us to be talking ourselves down, giving ourselves a kicking and pretending we're worse than we are.

Even now, with the whole relegation kerfuffle going on it is interesting - it's almost impressive that they can still make Scottish football captivating without a ball being kicked.

It's small time and parochial and I love it.

Most sensible post on reconstruction that I have seen.

Never catch on this talking the game up though.

[ScottB]

What would a ‘radical’ reshape be? There’s only so many ways to organise a league, would a smaller or bigger league be radical? Playing at a slightly different time of year?

[Waxy]

What would a ‘radical’ reshape be? There’s only so many ways to organise a league, would a smaller or bigger league be radical? Playing at a slightly different time of year?

Split into two regions east and west. Winners play in a superbowl style final at the end of the season?
Radical-yes.
Much more exciting for everyone-yes
Would the OF vote it down-yes

[007]

For me it does. Coronavirus has highlighted the need for hot water at Easter Road.

I think it will be hand gel dispensers.

[Michael]

Split into two regions east and west. Winners play in a superbowl style final at the end of the season?
Radical-yes.
Much more exciting for everyone-yes
Would the OF vote it down-yes

Some sort of playoff for Europe or even the title might be worth looking into.

Regional splits wouldn't really work because you'd lose a lot of income if you're not in the same region as Rangers, Celtic - and in general there would be fewer 'big' matches.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

No it doesn't. Don't fall for the Tom English narrative. We've got a record £160m tv deal and crowds are at their highest levels for about 50 years. I wouldn't call that stagnated.

Depends what measurement you’re using surely?

[jacomo]

The top flight took a wise decision on Friday to pause thoughts of reconstruction for now. The current mood is not going to produce good decision making.

Of course Hearts are partly to blame for that.

[SMAXXA]

I don’t think the top flight needs changing, it’s the bottom end that needs changing to have the same model In league 2 automatic relegation and a play off for second bottom. Winner of the LL/HL playoff goes straight up and the loser plays the second bottom team in league 2 in the play off.

People are far to quick to criticise but forget the last few seasons have been really good across most leagues and this season basically every league was interesting especially the prem, championship and league 1 with basically every team having something to play for bot so long ago prior to the shut down.

Let’s talk up that, talk about the record attendances talk about the best TV deal we have ever had, talk about the old firm in Europe this season as there’s a lot of good in our game that gets overlooked imo.

The above is exactly who I didn’t want reconstruction, league 2 element aside.

[Waxy]

I don’t think the top flight needs changing, it’s the bottom end that needs changing to have the same model In league 2 automatic relegation and a play off for second bottom. Winner of the LL/HL playoff goes straight up and the loser plays the second bottom team in league 2 in the play off.

People are far to quick to criticise but forget the last few seasons have been really good across most leagues and this season basically every league was interesting especially the prem, championship and league 1 with basically every team having something to play for bot so long ago prior to the shut down.

Let’s talk up that, talk about the record attendances talk about the best TV deal we have ever had, talk about the old firm in Europe this season as there’s a lot of good in our game that gets overlooked imo.

The above is exactly who I didn’t want reconstruction, league 2 element aside.
I agree. There really is nothing wrong with the top league.
You could move the other leagues to 12 also.
Its a good number, would move 6 LL/HL clubs into the SPFL and give current lower SPFL clubs breathing space. 12-12-12-12 with one automatic promotion and fair playoffs underneath. Everyones a winner except Ann Budge. The money split is a stumbling block.

[Onion]

Yes, it does starting with a more equitable distribution of money. The dominance of the OF has suffocated our game for decades. Then we have rules that hammer those clubs who go into admin, fail to pay their players, stiff charities, stiff the tax-payer (us). Finally, we need to reward and encourage those clubs who develop talent in the game so our National team has a chance of doing about better in major tournaments.

[theonlywayisup]

No it doesn't. Don't fall for the Tom English narrative. We've got a record £160m tv deal and crowds are at their highest levels for about 50 years. I wouldn't call that stagnated.

I think some people are thinking I'm focusing on league re-organisation. That could be part of it, but it's much wider than that.

You mention a record £160m TV deal. That's a very low sum compared to other countries. Now it's difficult to obtain accurate data, but Wikipedia summary (per season) is below:

Of course you've got the top five leagues that are way out of our reach, namely:

£1.7b English Premier League
£1.0b French Lique 1
£1.0b German League
£1.0b Spanish Liga 1
£0.9b Italian Serie 1

But for the rest, it's:

£0.4b Turkey Super Lig
£0.25b Brazil
£0.12b English Football Leagues
£0.11b Portuguese Primeiria Liga
£0.71b USA/Canada
£0.67b Netherlands
£0.67b Belgium
£0.58b Argentina
£0.50b Greece
£0.50b Poland
£0.48b Sweden
£0.46b Denmark
£0.37b Norway
£0.32b Scotland
£0.32b Switzerland / Liechtenstein
£0.30b Romania
£0.27b Austria

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domestic_football_league_broadcast_deals_b y_country

We should be doing a lot better than that, especially with the ex-pat community around the world.

[Numptie]

The anger of so many clubs who thought they still had a chance of promotion or saving themselves from relegation, shows that the setup isn't that bad.

[theonlywayisup]

Yes, it does starting with a more equitable distribution of money. The dominance of the OF has suffocated our game for decades. Then we have rules that hammer those clubs who go into admin, fail to pay their players, stiff charities, stiff the tax-payer (us). Finally, we need to reward and encourage those clubs who develop talent in the game so our National team has a chance of doing about better in major tournaments.

Can you imagine what the interest in the Champions League would be if, say, Real Madrid won it every single year, with maybe, say, only Bayern Munich able to offer any resistance. The competition would not be anywhere near the level of interest that we currently have with maybe ten clubs with a good chance of winning it. If I'm correct, very few teams win in in successive years, certainly not on run of wins like the Old Firm in Scotland.

We need to stimulate more interest in Scottish Football. However, the current self-interest of clubs as demonstrated recently is killing Scottish Football.

[Alfred E Newman]

I don't think there is much wrong with the present set up in Scotland other than the fact it is nigh impossible to compete financially with the Old Firm. Unfortunately that has been the case for most of my life and will continue to be so, no matter what the league format is.

[Hillsidehibby]

For me it does. Coronavirus has highlighted the need for hot water at Easter Road.

Have you seen the number of people who walk out of the toilets and don't wash their hands? Hot water would just be the start.

[CentreLine]

Reconstruction shouldn’t be looked at as a thing imposed by the governing bodies. I believe it should come from within. Any reshape of Scottish football must come from each individual club and I firmly believe that is beginning to happen at Easter Road. It’s not about fannying about with league structures, it has to be about the appeal of the whole perception of the match day experience and feel good factor around the clubs on non match days.

I’ve seen here a repeated call for simple things like hot water in the toilets and decent food choices. Could not agree more and there is already hot water going to the corporate parts so it shouldn’t be that difficult. But that’s just part of it.

Ron Gordon seems to have a grasp of this and I don’t think it will just be a lick of paint he is talking about. People coming to ER and to football stadia in general, need to feel that it is a special experience, that they are appreciated by their hosts. It is an entertainment business after all and should feel that way.

If people going to football were treated with a bit of dignity the media and moneyed sponsors would soon take notice. I genuinely believe we will see the benefits of that under Ron Gordon but it has to spread across the game as a whole.

For starters:

Arriving at the ground should not feel like you are being scrutinised, categorised and criminalised. Let’s soften that, at least for early arrivals, families and just normal decent people attending a paid for entertainment. A polite greeting wouldn’t be too hard, would it?

I like the vision Ron has of getting people in to the arena space early and entertaining them there. There may not be alcohol allowed but every other aspect of the pre and post match pub experience might suit a significant number of people, especially families. This can’t be tacky cheep stuff though. Clubs are there to entertain football fans so it has to be thought out.

There are small stalls selling club colours outside the ground, what about the club puts its own sales space in to the concourses. Why not profit from sales to away fans in the south too?

We are talking about a big screen and a quality sound system. There are live games being shown all day on match days. Would it be cost prohibitive to screen the Sky game, with sound, on that big screen and on smaller screens in the concourses.
If it would be cost prohibitive, surely it wouldn’t be if we just showed footage of old games.
It may not be popular but I think footage, on screens in the away concourse, should cater for the away support with old footage of their games (not necessarily v Hibs).

In the concourses, without risking obstruction to emergency exits, would it be so difficult to put in some fixed seating? Somewhere people can stop, socialise, reminisce and take in those games on the screens. With decent catering that would surely be appealing, not least to those of us with older legs or to younger children but who are not ready to take their seat in the ground.

In the “family section” I believe there is already entertainment for kids. I’m not sure what form this takes but it should be looked at to see if there is room for enhancements or improvements.

What is it that people want to do immediately after the game? I’ll wager, the majority want to catch up with post match comments and what has happened in other games. Back then to the big screen, with sound please. This might keep people in the ground a little longer and make dispersal a better experience all round? Not just immediately outside but in the surrounding streets.

Let’s start treating the football supporter with dignity and like customers not cash cows.

So. IMHO, Improvement to the product had to evolve from the inside not be imposed from the game authorities. Let them administer and clubs look after innovation. It’s not league reconstruction we need, it a root and branch rethink of the match day experience.

C’mon Ron, you are getting this right

[Andy74]

For me it does. Coronavirus has highlighted the need for hot water at Easter Road.

Hot water makes no odds at all - unless it's just that you don't like holding your hands under cold water for too long, which I don't think is a major issue. Cold water will do just as nicely in cleaning our hands as hot water.