View Full Version : Hearts v The SPFL
If they can cobble together all this money for a case they cannot win, how could they not cobble it together to pay their players?
TheReg!
10-05-2020, 10:04 AM
Absolutely no chance they will take this to court. They’ll have to take their medicine and suck it up. The only chance they have is for the league to somehow finish later on this summer but that’s not looking remotely likely. It will take them years to recover from this. Oh well, never mind.
snedzuk
10-05-2020, 10:09 AM
If theres a threat of court action, surely its in the SPFLs interest (i.e. that of the remaining clubs) to call the league immediately because time would then be of the essence - the longer this drags on the more chance other clubs could fold?
Onion
10-05-2020, 10:22 AM
They've played all their cards. All you're hearing is bluster and despair now that stark reality is staring them in the face. IMO they're in very serious bother. Once their fantasy of suing the SPFL has evaporated, like Budge's delusion of reconstruction, they will start to eat themselves.
This could be bigger problem for them than post-Vlad.
Peevemor
10-05-2020, 10:23 AM
As I posted elsewhere, I think that the SPFL board should put forward a motion that any club who attacks the SPFL (and therefore their fellow members) in a legal challenge and loses, will be automatically expelled from the SPFL.
Their titting about could use up a lot of time and energy that could be better spent elsewhere.
jacomo
10-05-2020, 10:26 AM
If theres a threat of court action, surely its in the SPFLs interest (i.e. that of the remaining clubs) to call the league immediately because time would then be of the essence - the longer this drags on the more chance other clubs could fold?
Budge doesn’t do things quickly.
The new stand isn’t finished yet despite chucking over £20m at it, she hasn’t got anywhere with a new Director of Football, Her task force spent three weeks chatting without progress, and she hasn’t got round to seeking legal advice yet.
She’s great at multi tasking though.
MWHIBBIES
10-05-2020, 10:37 AM
TBH, if OJ Simpson won they have a chance. They just cant afford the dream team of lawyers because they spent it all in the dream team of Naismith and Boyce :faf:
H18 SFR
10-05-2020, 10:42 AM
She will take and encourage crowdfunding to start legal proceedings then announce that they don’t think it’s worth doing and bang the money over to foundation of hearts, plugging the 3m funding hole.
They better crowdfund double because when they lose they'll need to pay the SPFL legal fees too.
mjhibby
10-05-2020, 08:43 PM
Once the league is called they will then start to face reality and slash costs. No chance of any legal action as even the most deluded ones know they can’t win hence the nucleur threat of withdrawing the maroon pound.🤣🤣🤣
EI255
10-05-2020, 08:44 PM
If they can cobble together all this money for a case they cannot win, how could they not cobble it together to pay their players?I trust if they lose any case then they will have to pay costs?
They are treading fine lines. Their begging bowl isn't very big right now and will take a real pounding next season. All the direct debit muppets will need to dig even deeper to bail them out this time.
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greenpaper55
10-05-2020, 08:47 PM
If you listened to Deans yesterday i think he gave the game away as regards to their aim which is to cause such a fuss that the SPFL would be forced to give the Hearts compensation for relegation.
Carheenlea
10-05-2020, 08:53 PM
Most clubs will be preparing, budgeting and concentrating all efforts into how they can get through this crisis with the least amount of distress to their short and long term futures and cutting the cloth according.
Hearts would be better doing similar - salvage what little is left of their dignity by accepting the cards that have dealt, acknowledge their fate is a result of a wretched 12-14 months on the pitch and a footballing consequence and concentrate the efforts in making sure they can be in a strong position to tackle the challenge to win promotion at the first attempt (which admittedly they did very well last time).
Wasting time and money on legal challenges is not the best foundations to do so.
bingo70
10-05-2020, 08:58 PM
If you listened to Deans yesterday i think he gave the game away as regards to their aim which is to cause such a fuss that the SPFL would be forced to give the Hearts compensation for relegation.
Of course it is.
They don’t have the case, the time or the money to take this all the way to court so they’re just trying to set their stall out at the start of negotiations.
Some of them seem to be expecting a £3m windfall from it, I suspect they’ll get less than 10% of that.
Jim44
10-05-2020, 09:02 PM
As I posted elsewhere, I think that the SPFL board should put forward a motion that any club who attacks the SPFL (and therefore their fellow members) in a legal challenge and loses, will be automatically expelled from the SPFL.
Their titting about could use up a lot of time and energy that could be better spent elsewhere.
:agree: If I belonged to a club or association, or worked for a company which I was moved to take to court, win or lose, I wouldn’t want to continue any form of relationship with it. By the same token, if I ran such a club or company, I would not want to, win or lose, continue to have that person as a member or employee. For me, if Hearts go to court, all bridges are burned with no way back. I really hope they go ahead with it, as it would likely be the end of them, but, unfortunately it’s all posturing and wind and piss.
Future17
10-05-2020, 09:09 PM
As I posted elsewhere, I think that the SPFL board should put forward a motion that any club who attacks the SPFL (and therefore their fellow members) in a legal challenge and loses, will be automatically expelled from the SPFL.
Their titting about could use up a lot of time and energy that could be better spent elsewhere.
No way that would pass as that would be classed as bullying by some of the sensitive souls of the SPFL's member clubs.
Future17
10-05-2020, 09:11 PM
:agree: If I belonged to a club or association, or worked for a company which I was moved to take to court, win or lose, I wouldn’t want to continue any form of relationship with it. By the same token, if I ran such a club or company, I would not want to, win or lose, continue to have that person as a member or employee. For me, if Hearts go to court, all bridges are burned with no way back. I really hope they go ahead with it, as it would likely be the end of them, but, unfortunately it’s all posturing and wind and piss.
George Foulkes as Senior Counsel - Gary Locke as his Junior.
Jdawg
10-05-2020, 09:17 PM
I trust if they lose any case then they will have to pay costs?
They are treading fine lines. Their begging bowl isn't very big right now and will take a real pounding next season. All the direct debit muppets will need to dig even deeper to bail them out this time.
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Yes, others sides costs plus their own
jacomo
10-05-2020, 09:20 PM
:agree: If I belonged to a club or association, or worked for a company which I was moved to take to court, win or lose, I wouldn’t want to continue any form of relationship with it. By the same token, if I ran such a club or company, I would not want to, win or lose, continue to have that person as a member or employee. For me, if Hearts go to court, all bridges are burned with no way back. I really hope they go ahead with it, as it would likely be the end of them, but, unfortunately it’s all posturing and wind and piss.
All Budge has said is that she will be seeking legal advice.
It’s a pretty weak hand she’s playing and if she’s got any sense she will fold before things get worse for her.
Jdawg
10-05-2020, 09:22 PM
Funny thing is even if they raise action they might lose. Defences to damages are (a) contributory negligence and (b) volenti non fit injuria (accepted the risk at the start).
They might lose the case or only get a small award once raised. Court cases can take a long time. Can’t see them going through with it. I certainly wouldn’t be doing so on the advice of Leslie Deans who is a conveyancer in which they don’t do much more that complete pro forma documents.
greenginger
10-05-2020, 09:25 PM
Hearts could start by getting an interdict to stop the SPFL calling the premier league season. This would not be prohibitive cost wise and could screw the league depending on how long a court would keep it in place.
The SPFL should be at the court on Monday applying for a caveat to stop such an action without a court hearing with the SPFL being present.
But, I’m sure Rod McKenzie doesn’t need advice from Hib.net :greengrin
As I posted elsewhere, I think that the SPFL board should put forward a motion that any club who attacks the SPFL (and therefore their fellow members) in a legal challenge and loses, will be automatically expelled from the SPFL.
.
Oh no, don't throw them into that briar patch!
Total fandans.
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Jim44
10-05-2020, 09:30 PM
Funny thing is even if they raise action they might lose. Defences to damages are (a) contributory negligence and (b) volenti non fit injuria (accepted the risk at the start).
They might lose the case or only get a small award once raised. Court cases can take a long time. Can’t see them going through with it. I certainly wouldn’t be doing so on the advice of Leslie Deans who is a conveyancer in which they don’t do much more that complete pro forma documents.
Without thinking too much about their posturing, I had assumed that their legal thrust would be to actually stay in the Premiership whereas it could be to ensure some sort of financial compensation, greater than any parachute payment they might be entitled to.
greenpaper55
10-05-2020, 09:31 PM
Hearts could start by getting an interdict to stop the SPFL calling the premier league season. This would not be prohibitive cost wise and could screw the league depending on how long a court would keep it in place.
The SPFL should be at the court on Monday applying for a caveat to stop such an action without a court hearing with the SPFL being present.
But, I’m sure Rod McKenzie doesn’t need advice from Hib.net :greengrin
They might do that but going down that route is hardly going to endear themselves to the other clubs ?
Funny thing is even if they raise action they might lose. Defences to damages are (a) contributory negligence and (b) volenti non fit injuria (accepted the risk at the start).
They might lose the case or only get a small award once raised. Court cases can take a long time. Can’t see them going through with it. I certainly wouldn’t be doing so on the advice of Leslie Deans who is a conveyancer in which they don’t do much more that complete pro forma documents.I can picture Deans now in his gowns and powdered wig, the scales of justice in the background, a concerned terse jury hanging on to every word of his summing up as he sells another semi-detached in Gilmerton. They'll give him his own series.
Never heard of or seen such a jumped up parochial bunch of guffys given so much credence.
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Jim44
10-05-2020, 09:44 PM
I can picture Deans now in his gowns and powdered wig, the scales of justice in the background, a concerned terse jury hanging on to every word of his summing up as he sells another semi-detached in Gilmerton. They'll give him his own series.
Never heard of or seen such a jumped up parochial bunch of guffys given so much credence.
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Empty vessels make the most noise. :cb
greenginger
10-05-2020, 09:51 PM
They might do that but going down that route is hardly going to endear themselves to the other clubs ?
No, but it would keep Budge front and centre for a few weeks , and in her mind it might lead to capitulation by Scottish Football to her vision of the future .
They’ll just have to do what every team finishing the season last has done before them. Get relegated and cut costs to go in sync with their new surroundings.
Its not all doom and gloom in Scottish football though as they may have you believe.
Less income means less spending so they wont actually lose money. They will just be operating on a different level.
True a handful of job may go at hearts but around the same amount of jobs will be gained at Dundee utd who are replacing them.
So dont worry, no harm at all will have been done to Scottish football through hearts relegation.
I guess you could send them £3 a month to help hearts survive, i think they’ll be ok though.
Benny will help them out behind the scenes.
Viva_Palmeiras
10-05-2020, 09:56 PM
If you listened to Deans yesterday i think he gave the game away as regards to their aim which is to cause such a fuss that the SPFL would be forced to give the Hearts compensation for relegation.
That was my take on it. Creating enough noise and fuss in order to get a soften the blow payment. However in regards to addressing their losses the line has to be drawn as their financial mismanagement has been a joke.
Post this the Authorities really need to do more to protect clubs from themselves. The Rangers and Hearts simply should not have been allowed to operate in the fashion they are accustomed to...
Box 17
10-05-2020, 09:58 PM
Perhaps Anne could take her case to Judge Rinder so we can all watch and laugh.
Jdawg
10-05-2020, 10:01 PM
I can picture Deans now in his gowns and powdered wig, the scales of justice in the background, a concerned terse jury hanging on to every word of his summing up as he sells another semi-detached in Gilmerton. They'll give him his own series.
Never heard of or seen such a jumped up parochial bunch of guffys given so much credence.
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😂😂😂.
Greenfly
10-05-2020, 10:07 PM
​
Of course it is.
They don’t have the case, the time or the money to take this all the way to court so they’re just trying to set their stall out at the start of negotiations.
Some of them seem to be expecting a £3m windfall from it, I suspect they’ll get less than 10% of that.
I'm sure this is exactly what this is all about. They're doing everything they can to create a sense of grievance - being "excluded", unfairly treated etc. in the hope that others will be sympathetic with compensation. I actually think all those being relegated with the season being incomplete have some case for compensation but it can only come from the general pot, ie. other clubs and who's going to want to give anything significant to fund the gross overspending of a rival? I suspect they might end up getting some kind of enhanced parachute payment to shut them up. But if they do it won't be enough to allow them to keep their lavish lifestyle. A wee bit of humility instead of the strutting arrogance we've seen might bring them more sympathy but they tend not to do that very well over there.
Greenfly
10-05-2020, 10:09 PM
No, but it would keep Budge front and centre for a few weeks , and in her mind it might lead to capitulation by Scottish Football to her vision of the future .
Vanity and bale-out - she's good at that.
Wakeyhibee
10-05-2020, 10:21 PM
Pressure will mount on The Rangers to fold their arguments as the UEFA entry rules for 20/21 draw closer.
Hearts will become more and more isolated. Its gonna be slowest relegation in history. I just hope innocent clubs dont go under because of it.
Frankhfc
10-05-2020, 10:38 PM
I can't foresee a civil court being persuaded there has been a dereliction of duty by either the SPFL board or individual member clubs if Hearts were to take this further. The board would have considered every option available to it with their duty of care to minimise damage across the width of its member clubs and reached the conclusion that ending the league as completed without play offs was the optimum scenario. The articles gave them due power in excercising this. There was in addition the opportunity for league reconstruction offered to Budge and Hearts in particular to investigate whether there was scope to pursue that route which may have saved them the bottom club from relegation. Member clubs have rightfully advised them their proposals will not succeed early avoiding wasted time and energy. There is no case to answer. Hearts would do well to save their fans a lot of money and false hope. IMO.
scm70nyd1973
10-05-2020, 10:54 PM
I am a wee bit excited about a Courtroom drama - so there had always been a plan on place to have a sequel to the pre Court fly on the wall documentary - I knew it !
All Hibbys should be thinking about ploughing everything they have into popcorn manufacturing companies in the Lothian area coz the returns will be phenomenal 🤭 Move over toilet paper 😁 I - for one - am going to sell all of my pegs and take a hit on it as the up side will be huge.
As a NZ resident I will be able to catch up with Kiwi Dug for a beer and let him offer up all of his substantial wisdom, charm and wit.
matty_f
10-05-2020, 11:06 PM
Perhaps Anne could take her case to Judge Rinder so we can all watch and laugh.
Great idea! :faf:
I am a wee bit excited about a Courtroom drama - so there had always been a plan on place to have a sequel to the pre Court fly on the wall documentary - I knew it !
All Hibbys should be thinking about ploughing everything they have into popcorn manufacturing companies in the Lothian area coz the returns will be phenomenal 🤭 Move over toilet paper 😁 I - for one - am going to sell all of my pegs and take a hit on it as the up side will be huge.
As a NZ resident I will be able to catch up with Kiwi Dug for a beer and let him offer up all of his substantial wisdom, charm and wit.
I'm looking forward to Budge taking the stand and getting grilled.
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/play-mp3/6604
Austinho
10-05-2020, 11:48 PM
Would only be right for the SPFL to give Hearts some compensation. In the interest of fair though it should match whatever Partick and Stranraer get. A few quid and a bag of Mitre balls should do it right?
scm70nyd1973
10-05-2020, 11:58 PM
I'm looking forward to Budge taking the stand and getting grilled.
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/play-mp3/6604
😂
https://youtu.be/HKy6MWS2iws
Tug Wilson
11-05-2020, 12:30 PM
One legal eagle on JKB seems to suggest that the court would investigate the case. Courts judge on the evidence presented, they don't investigate cases.
Hearts would have to be very transparent on the state of their accounts to show lose of earnings. Could make interesting reading.
Kojock
11-05-2020, 12:44 PM
Hearts could start by getting an interdict to stop the SPFL calling the premier league season. This would not be prohibitive cost wise and could screw the league depending on how long a court would keep it in place.
The SPFL should be at the court on Monday applying for a caveat to stop such an action without a court hearing with the SPFL being present.
But, I’m sure Rod McKenzie doesn’t need advice from Hib.net :greengrin
Deans mentioned an interdict during his rant but even he acknowledged it would be highly unlikely that the court would grant one.
JimBHibees
11-05-2020, 12:54 PM
I can't foresee a civil court being persuaded there has been a dereliction of duty by either the SPFL board or individual member clubs if Hearts were to take this further. The board would have considered every option available to it with their duty of care to minimise damage across the width of its member clubs and reached the conclusion that ending the league as completed without play offs was the optimum scenario. The articles gave them due power in excercising this. There was in addition the opportunity for league reconstruction offered to Budge and Hearts in particular to investigate whether there was scope to pursue that route which may have saved them the bottom club from relegation. Member clubs have rightfully advised them their proposals will not succeed early avoiding wasted time and energy. There is no case to answer. Hearts would do well to save their fans a lot of money and false hope. IMO.
Agree dont have a case to answer. Votes were run as per Spfl rules which resulted in the required number of clubs voting for. A clear clause outlining that Spfl board can call end of the season. The deloitte investigation indicating no wrong doing by spfl board. Dont have a cat in hells chance imo.
One legal eagle on JKB seems to suggest that the court would investigate the case. Courts judge on the evidence presented, they don't investigate cases.
Hearts would have to be very transparent on the state of their accounts to show lose of earnings. Could make interesting reading.
Due to the current uncertainty around how football will move forward, at present it must near impossible to predict any club's profit and loss for next season so would be even harder to predict the drop in income for Hearts.
Recently Hearts have been running at an underlying loss with the fans/benefactor donations tipping them into profit. They'll have to cut their cloth accordingly in the Championship so might actually turn a profit before donations. The SPFL should suggest the court determines the "loss" of earnings on the bottom line figure so improving from an underlying loss in the Premiership into profit in the Championship should mean they should pay the SPFL. (Just joking obviously.....they can't help themselves from overspending).
Deans mentioned an interdict during his rant but even he acknowledged it would be highly unlikely that the court would grant one.
I hope they try it and fail. Every club would hate them (even more) for trying to prevent football restarting.
Dashing Bob S
11-05-2020, 01:59 PM
I am a wee bit excited about a Courtroom drama - so there had always been a plan on place to have a sequel to the pre Court fly on the wall documentary - I knew it !
All Hibbys should be thinking about ploughing everything they have into popcorn manufacturing companies in the Lothian area coz the returns will be phenomenal 🤭 Move over toilet paper 😁 I - for one - am going to sell all of my pegs and take a hit on it as the up side will be huge.
As a NZ resident I will be able to catch up with Kiwi Dug for a beer and let him offer up all of his substantial wisdom, charm and wit.
I honestly believe they are so desperate that someone has done a cost benefit analysis of court expense v video sales and decided to throw the dice. Zero self respect From them but only more fun to come from our point of view.
PatHead
11-05-2020, 03:11 PM
I honestly believe they are so desperate that someone has done a cost benefit analysis of court expense v video sales and decided to throw the dice. Zero self respect From them but only more fun to come from our point of view.
Just hope that this case doesn't hold up the BBC documentary. BTW anyone have an idea of what the theme tune will be for the documentary?
Just hope that this case doesn't hold up the BBC documentary. BTW anyone have an idea of what the theme tune will be for the documentary?https://youtu.be/pct1uEhAqBQ
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Brunswickbill
11-05-2020, 04:46 PM
Just hope that this case doesn't hold up the BBC documentary. BTW anyone have an idea of what the theme tune will be for the documentary?
There’s already a thread on the theme tune. https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?346096-Hearts-Documentary-(Trouble-at-the-big-Toss)-the-theme-tune
PatHead
11-05-2020, 04:54 PM
There’s already a thread on the theme tune. https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?346096-Hearts-Documentary-(Trouble-at-the-big-Toss)-the-theme-tune
Sorry missed that.
Eyrie
11-05-2020, 05:42 PM
Hearts biggest problem in getting any sort of compensation is in actually proving that they have lost any income given that they were very likely to be relegated anyway.
It seems to be completely lost to hearts fans that they finished the season bottom of the league.
There is no way back.
They played their way into the championship and are going to have to play their way out.
The meltdown is way beyond belief.
It is my understanding that the word “expel” means to force out; the word “exclude” means to deny a place, whilst “relegate” means to transfer a team to a lower league. I believe that they would find it difficult in court to prove that they have been expelled as they are, by the rules of the association, the bottom team at the time of calling the league and are therefore subject to relegation. They aren’t being forced out by anyone other than the rules they themselves helped create. Unless one simply abandons all and any articles and rules and decides that they can only be implemented if they help the team in question, which is patently an unsustainable position. Neither have they been excluded; Ms Budge was invited to look for a possible way out but didn’t manage to do so. That is “inclusion” at work. If the season is over, which, as a matter of public safety, it looks like being, then Hearts are relegated...unless of course the chairman of Hamilton jumps up and says “I am Spartacus”. The argument for compensation is entirely different but their legal argument against relegation would fall at the first hurdle in my opinion. I have no problem with them seeking compensation from the government but not from the other clubs who used their own money somewhat more wisely in order to keep themselves out of the bottom spot in the league.
Dashing Bob S
12-05-2020, 01:37 PM
Hearts biggest problem in getting any sort of compensation is in actually proving that they have lost any income given that they were very likely to be relegated anyway.
If an SFA official once booked Steve Fulton for being ugly, surely the SPLF can compensate Hearts for being stupid?
147lothian
12-05-2020, 01:59 PM
Just hope that this case doesn't hold up the BBC documentary. BTW anyone have an idea of what the theme tune will be for the documentary?
The Crying Game.
Based on the thriller Rotten Tomatoes
Hopefully it’s about to get fiery with an announcement that they have been officially RELEGATED!
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Tambo
12-05-2020, 02:38 PM
Hopefully it’s about to get fiery with an announcement that they have been officially RELEGATED!
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I guess now we wait for the next lockdown review? Cant see scotland playing football again in June.
I guess now we wait for the next lockdown review? Cant see scotland playing football again in June.
Why. Call it now. All the votes have been cast and the decision was agreed to end the season.... just like the Championship, L1 and L2.
It’s as simple as that for me!
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If 9 championship clubs voted against Rangers, hearts and Stranraers egm vote. Then one of either Partick or ICT must have voted against them. Strange.
hibbyfraelibby
12-05-2020, 03:07 PM
Why. Call it now. All the votes have been cast and the decision was agreed to end the season.... just like the Championship, L1 and L2.
It’s as simple as that for me!
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Does keague not need to be called by 25th May?😉
Does keague not need to be called by 25th May?[emoji6]
Note sure but The Scottish Cup Final is usually the last game of the season. This was last Saturday.
Just get it done FFS.
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Does keague not need to be called by 25th May?😉
Yes they need to tell UEFA if we are calling it by then.
We dont know if the gov will let us play by then so the league is over 100%.
Really dont know why it wasnt called today.’
Its just a case of tick tock.
hibeerealist
12-05-2020, 05:34 PM
They can shout, squeal, stamp their feet but they AIN'T going to court.
greenlex
12-05-2020, 05:36 PM
If 9 championship clubs voted against Rangers, hearts and Stranraers egm vote. Then one of either Partick or ICT must have voted against them. Strange.
It was probably lost in hyperspace only to be changed by someone.
Budge to spend 3 months sifting through applications of the highest calibre and scouring Europe looking for a solicitor only to realise the best man, L Deans, was under her very nose the whole time.
Greenfly
12-05-2020, 09:47 PM
If 9 championship clubs voted against Rangers, hearts and Stranraers egm vote. Then one of either Partick or ICT must have voted against them. Strange.
Patrick aren't a Championship club. They were officially relegated as a result of the April vote so would have cast their vote as a League One club.
jacomo
13-05-2020, 07:43 AM
Just hope that this case doesn't hold up the BBC documentary. BTW anyone have an idea of what the theme tune will be for the documentary?
It would provide decent material for Season 2.
jacomo
13-05-2020, 07:44 AM
Budge to spend 3 months sifting through applications of the highest calibre and scouring Europe looking for a solicitor only to realise the best man, L Deans, was under her very nose the whole time.
Apparently the German candidate with the drinking habit didn’t know anything about the Scottish legal system. Who knew?
RyeSloan
13-05-2020, 07:52 AM
I hear a lot of noise about going to court but what exactly would they be going to court with!
Just deeming something ‘unfair’ is not a legal case
Some sort of directors dereliction of duty seems impossible considering the Delloite investigation and the members vote
The articles of association and the other rules are pretty clear that the SPFL has the required powers to do what they have done
So I’m left stumped as to what the basis of any action would be and what action could possibly result in them not being relegated.
Patrick aren't a Championship club. They were officially relegated as a result of the April vote so would have cast their vote as a League One club.
Cool. So Raith got the vote instead.
Geo_1875
13-05-2020, 07:55 AM
I hear a lot of noise about going to court but what exactly would they be going to court with!
Just deeming something ‘unfair’ is not a legal case
Some sort of directors dereliction of duty seems impossible considering the Delloite investigation and the members vote
The articles of association and the other rules are pretty clear that the SPFL has the required powers to do what they have done
So I’m left stumped as to what the basis of any action would be and what action could possibly result in them not being relegated.
Because The Famous and stuff like that.
I hear a lot of noise about going to court but what exactly would they be going to court with!
Just deeming something ‘unfair’ is not a legal case
Some sort of directors dereliction of duty seems impossible considering the Delloite investigation and the members vote
The articles of association and the other rules are pretty clear that the SPFL has the required powers to do what they have done
So I’m left stumped as to what the basis of any action would be and what action could possibly result in them not being relegated.
No they havent got any case to take to court.
They have though been slightly unlucky and thats the sum and total.
Bit like a penalty being given for a foul that was outside the box.
Radium
13-05-2020, 08:29 AM
No they havent got any case to take to court.
They have though been slightly unlucky and thats the sum and total.
Bit like a penalty being given for a foul that was outside the box.
... or a linesman getting an offside wrong or not seeing a ball bounce over the line from a free-kick or a referee missing a series of hand balls by a defender lying on the ground.
We follow teams in a game where luck (or lack of) combined with the variety of performances of players and officials with the occasional input from weather conditions can give some very random outcomes ...
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Bostonhibby
13-05-2020, 08:33 AM
I hear a lot of noise about going to court but what exactly would they be going to court with!
Just deeming something ‘unfair’ is not a legal case
Some sort of directors dereliction of duty seems impossible considering the Delloite investigation and the members vote
The articles of association and the other rules are pretty clear that the SPFL has the required powers to do what they have done
So I’m left stumped as to what the basis of any action would be and what action could possibly result in them not being relegated.This is spot on, I keep hearing about courts but nothing about the precise cause of the action.
The Hunnish band of possible litigants are also members of the body they intend suing, and often you can't sue yourself.
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Ozyhibby
13-05-2020, 09:01 AM
They won’t be taking anyone to court. There will likely be a statement from them once it’s done about taking the high ground and not wishing to damage the game any further.
They have no case whatsoever and they know it.
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Bostonhibby
13-05-2020, 09:04 AM
They won’t be taking anyone to court. There will likely be a statement from them once it’s done about taking the high ground and not wishing to damage the game any further.
They have no case whatsoever and they know it.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThat's how I see it, allows their gullible fans to chunter about not doing walking away, no surrender etc., when once again they do the opposite.
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Budge-We shouldnt be expelled from the league
Judge- where did you finish
Budge
1
Celtic
30
70
80
2
Rangers
29
45
67
3
Motherwell
30
3
46
4
Aberdeen
30
4
45
5
Livingston
30
2
39
6
Hibernian
30
-7
37
7
St. Johnstone
29
-18
36
8
Kilmarnock
30
-10
33
9
St. Mirren
30
-17
29
10
Ross County
30
-31
29
11
Hamilton Academical
30
-20
27
12
Heart of Midlothian
30
-21
23
Judge-Thats not being expelled, thats relegation.
Budge-Thats not fair.We've spent millions just to avoid relegation
Judge-Get doon.
Paisley Hibby
13-05-2020, 09:14 AM
Deans mentioned an interdict during his rant but even he acknowledged it would be highly unlikely that the court would grant one.
Exactly. The Courts don't take kindly to being used as a tactic to delay things, especially where there is little prospect of an arguable legal case.
Jim44
13-05-2020, 09:14 AM
If they go to court, I don’t know how their ‘prosecution’ will be framed but their grievance can only be that they were deprived of the opportunity to avoid relegation and their goal will be to be awarded enhanced compensation for their ‘unfortunate’ experience. Budge said initially that they would seek legal advice, not that they would go to court. I assume that she will be getting this advice as we speak and if there is a likelihood of success, they will go for it.
Brightside
13-05-2020, 09:18 AM
Has anyone ever taken a bowling club to court after being asked to leave by the committee? Not that i can find. They have no chance and the majority of their fans know that too.
The most they could win is some form of compensation that wouldnt amount to much.
A solidarity payment for losing out on the chance to not be relegated is quite fair but shouldnt be that much and added to the parachute payment.
They’re not losing 3M. They just cant earn 3M
Their relegation is by sporting merit so they just have to suck it up and downsize accordingly..
CropleyWasGod
13-05-2020, 09:34 AM
Has anyone ever taken a bowling club to court after being asked to leave by the committee? Not that i can find. They have no chance and the majority of their fans know that too.
This is different to a bowling club. It's a minority shareholder wanting to take action against the company in which it has a share.
The lawyers on here will tell us what circumstances that is allowed in.
RyeSloan
13-05-2020, 09:57 AM
This is different to a bowling club. It's a minority shareholder wanting to take action against the company in which it has a share.
The lawyers on here will tell us what circumstances that is allowed in.
I’m a million miles from being a lawyer but most shareholder actions I have seen are against the directors of the company.not following their fiduciary duties. In other words the directors acting in their own interests rather than the companies.
I struggle to see any grounds for such action against the SPFL board or Doncaster. Rangers were clearly trying this line with their call for their suspension and their dossier but quite clearly they have been unable to highlight any provable wrong doing and in fact have been called out as evidentially wrong by a couple of the board members already.
Processes and procedures and rules seem to have been followed at all times...not always 100% cleanly of course but in the main there appears to be zero grounds for legal complaint there.
So I’m back where I started, just what are the legal grounds for complaint?
The most they could win is some form of compensation that wouldnt amount to much.
A solidarity payment for losing out on the chance to not be relegated is quite fair but shouldnt be that much and added to the parachute payment.
They’re not losing 3M. They just cant earn 3M
Their relegation is by sporting merit so they just have to suck it up and downsize accordingly..
Indeed. 3M is the shortfall/funding gap they have/had to find to get to the end of season!
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Sammy7nil
13-05-2020, 10:10 AM
Budge to spend 3 months sifting through applications of the highest calibre and scouring Europe looking for a solicitor only to realise the best man, L Deans, was under her very nose the whole time.
:tee hee::tee hee::tee hee:
Spike Mandela
13-05-2020, 10:12 AM
Surely Hearts emphasis will now move to playing league games behind closed doors as per England and Germany? Nothing has been called yet in the Premiership.
Rumble de Thump
13-05-2020, 10:14 AM
The most they could win is some form of compensation that wouldnt amount to much.
A solidarity payment for losing out on the chance to not be relegated is quite fair but shouldnt be that much and added to the parachute payment.
They’re not losing 3M. They just cant earn 3M
Their relegation is by sporting merit so they just have to suck it up and downsize accordingly..
A 'solidarity' payment wouldn't be fair to whoever has to pay it or the rest of the clubs in the Championship, as it would give Hearts an unfair advantage against them before a ball has even been kicked next season.
A 'solidarity' payment wouldn't be fair to whoever has to pay it or the rest of the clubs in the Championship, as it would give Hearts an unfair advantage against them before a ball has even been kicked next season.
Good point. I’ll leave it to the experts. I’m pretty much as far from an expert as you’ll get.
Green_one
13-05-2020, 10:34 AM
Surely Hearts emphasis will now move to playing league games behind closed doors as per England and Germany? Nothing has been called yet in the Premiership.
Restarting in England is looking harder by the day. Players are not happy and the rules about playing are unrealistic.
We can see teams in Germany and Italy getting infections within their squads. Not a great picture and hard to see us restarting. Plus the economics of us playing without crowds is even less attractive. It only takes one team to go down and the whole thing is pointless.
This is assuming they have adequate squads, which half the clubs do not.
Ryan91
13-05-2020, 01:23 PM
Restarting in England is looking harder by the day. Players are not happy and the rules about playing are unrealistic.
We can see teams in Germany and Italy getting infections within their squads. Not a great picture and hard to see us restarting. Plus the economics of us playing without crowds is even less attractive. It only takes one team to go down and the whole thing is pointless.
This is assuming they have adequate squads, which half the clubs do not.
Did the Scottish Government not say that if the league was to restart, then it would be August before a ball was kicked in anger or am I making that up?
Vini1875
13-05-2020, 01:43 PM
That's how I see it, allows their gullible fans to chunter about not doing walking away, no surrender etc., when once again they do the opposite.
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Exactly. As long as they can blame someone else and claim to have been expelled, that will keep the fans buying STs and paying into FOH. The board know the mentality of their fans, who still blame St. Mirren for their own failure to win the league 34 years ago. Making a lot of noise and doing f all, that is the jambo way.
hibbyfraelibby
13-05-2020, 02:15 PM
A 'solidarity' payment wouldn't be fair to whoever has to pay it or the rest of the clubs in the Championship, as it would give Hearts an unfair advantage against them before a ball has even been kicked next season.
Are we exempt from this solidarity payment? We are losing £125k place money. How much are they losing? Nothing on current form. They've been paid in full.
Barney McGrew
13-05-2020, 02:32 PM
Are we exempt from this solidarity payment? We are losing £125k place money. How much are they losing? Nothing on current form. They've been paid in full.
I’m sure in the spirit of the morale crusade that they’re on to make sure no one loses out that Budge and Deans will be the first oneS asking for us to get the money in full.
Kojock
13-05-2020, 03:08 PM
Did the Scottish Government not say that if the league was to restart, then it would be August before a ball was kicked in anger or am I making that up?
They said there would be no football before 10th June. The players would then need a 6 week preseason to get back to full fitness hence the August date.
Joe6-2
13-05-2020, 03:21 PM
No they havent got any case to take to court.
They have though been slightly unlucky and thats the sum and total.
Bit like a penalty being given for a foul that was outside the box.
👍
Jdawg
13-05-2020, 03:31 PM
Are we exempt from this solidarity payment? We are losing £125k place money. How much are they losing? Nothing on current form. They've been paid in full.
Surely there would be a vote on a solidarity payment? They can let Boyce and Naismith leave on a free there’s a saving of several hundred thousand a year. They can cut their cloth accordingly like all other relegated teams do.
Stuff them. How about we say yes that’s fine but the money goes to Lithuanian pensioners your despicable club robbed.
Eyrie
13-05-2020, 06:03 PM
Once Hearts establish the principle in court that clubs should get what they could possibly have at a stretch if every other result went their way, then every club in Scottish football will be able to put in a similar claim.
The good news is that means we are entitled to the prize money and European entry for third place. The bad news is that Sevco will insist that, as they could finish top, this season should count as their first major honour.
Once Hearts establish the principle in court that clubs should get what they could possibly have at a stretch if every other result went their way, then every club in Scottish football will be able to put in a similar claim.
The good news is that means we are entitled to the prize money and European entry for third place. The bad news is that Sevco will insist that, as they could finish top, this season should count as their first major honour.
This is basically Hearts arguement and could have,would have,should have just doesn't cut it.
Reality is they're just crying their hearts out.
nonshinyfinish
14-05-2020, 09:06 AM
Once Hearts establish the principle in court that clubs should get what they could possibly have at a stretch if every other result went their way, then every club in Scottish football will be able to put in a similar claim.
The good news is that means we are entitled to the prize money and European entry for third place. The bad news is that Sevco will insist that, as they could finish top, this season should count as their first major honour.
I think only the top three are mathematically safe from finishing bottom, so next season's Premiership should be made up of the OF, Motherwell and Dundee United. This is ideal as they can play each other team 12 times to give 36 games, then split into a top 2/bottom 2 with a final set of home and away fixtures to give 38 games in total.
The only reason the reconstruction task force didn't think of this is that it doesn't save Hearts.
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