League reconstruction

[Diclonius]

Simple poll to see if this board supports the league reconstruction plans as they stand, knowing full well what the outcome would be.

[007]

Simple poll to see if this board supports the league reconstruction plans as they stand, knowing full well what the outcome would be.

Would be better to do more choices, in line with what the likely options the task force will put forward. 14-10-10-10 or 14-14-14 and also temporary or permanent for both of those choices and assume the split is after 2 rounds of fixtures (26 games), split 6 into top section playing twice (10 games) and 8 in bottom section (14 games). Plus choice to keep the current set up. 5 choices in total.

There are a few ways to do promotion/relegation but that would mean too many permutations for a poll so I'd leave that out.

[JimBHibees]

Simple poll to see if this board supports the league reconstruction plans as they stand, knowing full well what the outcome would be.

What are the plans? 3 leagues of 14? How does relegation work, are there any play offs, is there a split in all leagues and how does it work. Haven't seen any of the detail.

[Bostonhibby]

I'm completely against what is basically an expedient to save Hearts from going down and the consequences of it.

I can see a case for a sensible review of what's best long term, conducted at the right pace at the right time rather than a mad dash to do something immediately that wasn't really on the radar until Mrs Budge started the rallying call. There was no clamour to make radical instant change at the end of this season in January/February.

There might be a wish amongst a few to save Hearts and those clubs might see some benefit or gain some concessions as a result, but lets call it what it is, sure Sevco want to somehow blight Celtc's title win however it comes about, but the rest of this is about Hearts short term salvation and they won't look twice at any of the club's who might back Mrs Budge's plan if they later find themselves in trouble.

[The 90+2]

Any way you can vote on polls on phone or iPad? Always wondered that.

[JimBHibees]

I'm completely against what is basically an expedient to save Hearts from going down and the consequences of it.

I can see a case for a sensible review of what's best long term, conducted at the right pace at the right time rather than a mad dash to do something immediately that wasn't really on the radar until Mrs Budge started the rallying call. There was no clamour to make radical instant change at the end of this season in January/February.

There might be a wish amongst a few to save Hearts and those clubs might see some benefit or gain some concessions as a result, but lets call it what it is, sure Sevco want to somehow blight Celtc's title win however it comes about, but the rest of this is about Hearts short term salvation and they won't look twice at any of the club's who might back Mrs Budge's plan if they later find themselves in trouble.

Totally agree if they had beaten St Mirren there would have been no clamour from Hearts for reconstruction.

[nonshinyfinish]

Any way you can vote on polls on phone or iPad? Always wondered that.

Should work if you switch to the desktop style – IIRC there's a link at the very bottom of the page in the mobile version.

[Waxy]

Totally agree if they had beaten St Mirren there would have been no clamour from Hearts for reconstruction.

The whole thing is beyond pathetic. Hearts should be ashamed of themselves but we know they dont do that.

[surreyhibbie]

Any way you can vote on polls on phone or iPad? Always wondered that.

I just did...:confused:

[lord bunberry]

I can’t see any upside to a 14 team league so it’s a no from me.

[The 90+2]

Should work if you switch to the desktop style – IIRC there's a link at the very bottom of the page in the mobile version.

Thanks 👍

[ancient hibee]

What are the plans? 3 leagues of 14? How does relegation work, are there any play offs, is there a split in all leagues and how does it work. Haven't seen any of the detail.


That's because there is no detail.

[JimBHibees]

That's because there is no detail.

That would explain it. :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

That would explain it. :greengrin

There'll be plenty in the next few weeks-woods and trees?

[Bostonhibby]

There'll be plenty in the next few weeks-woods and trees?They should get Mrs doctor Budge to explain it, one big block paragraph with no punctuation, just for consistency.

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[hibeerealist]

Reconstruction will only benefit teams like us IF it is 18 team SPL (16 possibly but 18 better) as you only play the ugglies home and away rather that 2 x Home and away like now. This might open the league a bit more for challenges, not that any other teams, including ourselves, look like doing so but you never know.

18 for me 14 does absolutely NOTHING other than add two teams AND MOST importantly, provides an escape for the Deluded Duncans).

[danhibees1875]

Reconstruction will only benefit teams like us IF it is 18 team SPL (16 possibly but 18 better) as you only play the ugglies home and away rather that 2 x Home and away like now. This might open the league a bit more for challenges, not that any other teams, including ourselves, look like doing so but you never know.

18 for me 14 does absolutely NOTHING other than add two teams AND MOST importantly, provides an escape for the Deluded Duncans).

:agree:

A change to 14 teams isnt a change. It's just more of the same, arguably a slightly worse version of what we already have.

I flip flop on the idea of a 16/18 team league. At the moment I don't fancy it as I think there would be a lot of midtable boring games, but at least it would be actual change to the game.

Hopefully whatever the working group decide to go for they can provide a detailed proposal of how it would all work to the public. It would be nice to know exactly what the clubs are voting on in advance.

[weecounty hibby]

14-14-14 is total bull****. If this goes through we will be back to the same old arguments over league reconstruction within 5 years. This has only reared its head due to the tarts being total dug*****. They are purely and selfishly looking to save their cheating, poppy theiving skins. They have agitated and worked up other clubs and there is absolutely no consensus on what is best for football overall. Only what is best for clubs individually or maybe in like minded groups who are getting relegated. This year's premier league was looking very exciting. **** off hearts you shower of selfish, self serving, delusional, charity robbing *******s. Relegation is too good for those ****s!!!

[The 90+2]

14-14-14 is total bull****. If this goes through we will be back to the same old arguments over league reconstruction within 5 years. This has only reared its head due to the tarts being total dug*****. They are purely and selfishly looking to save their cheating, poppy theiving skins. They have agitated and worked up other clubs and there is absolutely no consensus on what is best for football overall. Only what is best for clubs individually or maybe in like minded groups who are getting relegated. This year's premier league was looking very exciting. **** off hearts you shower of selfish, self serving, delusional, charity robbing *******s. Relegation is too good for those ****s!!!

Can this option be added to the poll please? 😁

[AgentDaleCooper]

i kinda feel like if this wasn't hearts, a lot of people would be completely behind this. there's no point in being petty, even if budge and co. are acting ridiculously - we need a bigger league. ideally, if we get to finish this season, then maybe hearts would get relegated and the league would be expanded - everyone's a winner (except them heehee).

i'm definitely opposed to expanding for one season only though, that's an absolute nonsense.

[Kato]

i kinda feel like if this wasn't hearts, a lot of people would be completely behind this. there's no point in being petty, even if budge and co. are acting ridiculously - we need a bigger league. ideally, if we get to finish this season, then maybe hearts would get relegated and the league would be expanded - everyone's a winner (except them heehee).

i'm definitely opposed to expanding for one season only though, that's an absolute nonsense.Why do we need a bigger League?

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[The 90+2]

i kinda feel like if this wasn't hearts, a lot of people would be completely behind this. there's no point in being petty, even if budge and co. are acting ridiculously - we need a bigger league. ideally, if we get to finish this season, then maybe hearts would get relegated and the league would be expanded - everyone's a winner (except them heehee).

i'm definitely opposed to expanding for one season only though, that's an absolute nonsense.

The leagues fine the way it is. Why would it benefit us to have Inverness and Dundee added in? (Examples). There’s little in it for us.

[Since90+2]

i kinda feel like if this wasn't hearts, a lot of people would be completely behind this. there's no point in being petty, even if budge and co. are acting ridiculously - we need a bigger league. ideally, if we get to finish this season, then maybe hearts would get relegated and the league would be expanded - everyone's a winner (except them heehee).

i'm definitely opposed to expanding for one season only though, that's an absolute nonsense.

We don't need a bigger league at all. The quality is already pretty low so by adding clubs from lower down the pyramid it's not going to improve things.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Reconstruction will only benefit teams like us IF it is 18 team SPL (16 possibly but 18 better) as you only play the ugglies home and away rather that 2 x Home and away like now. This might open the league a bit more for challenges, not that any other teams, including ourselves, look like doing so but you never know.

18 for me 14 does absolutely NOTHING other than add two teams AND MOST importantly, provides an escape for the Deluded Duncans).

having re-considered my last post, i think this is the correct analysis :aok:

[Box 17]

Would be quite happy with trying a 14 team league but with a couple of caveats. It is something that shouldn't be rushed through just to save the bottom teams but should be of genuine benefit to everyone, if that can be achieved. Also, the idea of a split half way through will lead to lots of meaningless games for teams in the bottom half so needs to be avoided.

[Since452]

A 14 team league holds no appeal for me at all

[JimBHibees]

i kinda feel like if this wasn't hearts, a lot of people would be completely behind this. there's no point in being petty, even if budge and co. are acting ridiculously - we need a bigger league. ideally, if we get to finish this season, then maybe hearts would get relegated and the league would be expanded - everyone's a winner (except them heehee).

i'm definitely opposed to expanding for one season only though, that's an absolute nonsense.

Disagree don't see the need for it Hearts or not. The 6/8 split sounds ridiculous.

[ancient hibee]

Don't see much support for a split which will mean that 8 clubs will miss out on the chance of a home game against the OF.

[Diclonius]

i kinda feel like if this wasn't hearts, a lot of people would be completely behind this. there's no point in being petty, even if budge and co. are acting ridiculously - we need a bigger league. ideally, if we get to finish this season, then maybe hearts would get relegated and the league would be expanded - everyone's a winner (except them heehee).

i'm definitely opposed to expanding for one season only though, that's an absolute nonsense.

:top marks

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't behind league expansion before Hearts went into the relegation spot. If St Mirren were 12th the poll would be very different.

I've always been in favour of league expansion, and I prioritise what's best for Hibs over what's worst for Hearts, so league expansion it is.

[nonshinyfinish]

:top marks

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't behind league expansion before Hearts went into the relegation spot. If St Mirren were 12th the poll would be very different.

I've always been in favour of league expansion, and I prioritise what's best for Hibs over what's worst for Hearts, so league expansion it is.

Expansion generally, or specifically to 14 teams?

I'm fairly agnostic on significant expansion (say to 18), because I can see advantages and disadvantages, but I genuinely don't see any benefit to 14 over 12.

[lord bunberry]

Any reconstruction has to involve a much bigger league of around 20 teams playing each other twice a season. That’s not on the cards so any tinkering with the current format just to save hearts is completely pointless. Taking my hibs hat off I can see why they’re raging that they’re going to be relegated, but I quickly put that hat back on and take great pleasure that they’re absolutely spewing, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

[007]

:top marks

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't behind league expansion before Hearts went into the relegation spot. If St Mirren were 12th the poll would be very different.

I've always been in favour of league expansion, and I prioritise what's best for Hibs over what's worst for Hearts, so league expansion it is.

Being comfortable at the top of the bottom 8 at the split with 14 effectively meaningless games left to play wouldn't be best for Hibs and would kill the following seasons ST sales.

[Diclonius]

Being comfortable at the top of the bottom 8 at the split with 14 effectively meaningless games left to play wouldn't be best for Hibs and would kill the following seasons ST sales.

Not if there is a European play-off place for the 7th-finishing team.

[ronaldo7]

Not if there is a European play-off place for the 7th-finishing team.

How does that work?

Seen it mentioned. Does the play off occur with the 4th placed team?

How many European spots do we have to have?

[Ozyhibby]

Are people really backing an idea that schedules more games for next season when we are not sure if we can get started on time?


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[Hibeewilly]

Being comfortable at the top of the bottom 8 at the split with 14 effectively meaningless games left to play wouldn't be best for Hibs and would kill the following seasons ST sales.We might not have to wait that long for season ticket sales to be affected 007. Two people have said to me today that if its a 14 team SPL for this coming season that they won't be renewing for 20/21.

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[Diclonius]

How does that work?

Seen it mentioned. Does the play off occur with the 4th placed team?

How many European spots do we have to have?

A number of ways used in other leagues. My preferred option would be that 3rd gets Europe automatically (4th too if the cup winner has already qualified), and 4th-7th (5th-8th) go into a four team playoff. There's no special benefit to finishing in the bottom 8 (as the top 6 are guaranteed a shot at Europe) and there's an incentive to avoid the playoff altogether by finishing higher in the top 6.

This and expanded relegation/promotion slots/playoffs will result in a much more exciting league. If we make it so that 13th-14th are automatically relegated and 12th goes into a playoff, you could theoretically have a league where only 9th-11th don't qualify for something at the end of the season.

That said, knowing the SFA it'll be a fourteen team division with 1st-4th qualifying for Europe automatically, 14th being relegated and 13th going into that unfair playoff.

[chippy]

How does that work?

Seen it mentioned. Does the play off occur with the 4th placed team?

How many European spots do we have to have?
If we have 5 Euro places like next season could be play off between 5, 6 and 7

[A Hi-Bee]

On the grounds of the above NO
it's all just becoming a ****in joke as people die all around, **** them and get them relegated.

[PatHead]

A number of ways used in other leagues. My preferred option would be that 3rd gets Europe automatically (4th too if the cup winner has already qualified), and 4th-7th (5th-8th) go into a four team playoff. There's no special benefit to finishing in the bottom 8 (as the top 6 are guaranteed a shot at Europe) and there's an incentive to avoid the playoff altogether by finishing higher in the top 6.

This and expanded relegation/promotion slots/playoffs will result in a much more exciting league. If we make it so that 13th-14th are automatically relegated and 12th goes into a playoff, you could theoretically have a league where only 9th-11th don't qualify for something at the end of the season.

That said, knowing the SFA it'll be a fourteen team division with 1st-4th qualifying for Europe automatically, 14th being relegated and 13th going into that unfair playoff.

How many games would be played in a season then? Would play off games be on your season ticket. If not how much extra would it cost? Finally if we finished fourth on goal difference I would be pretty pissed off not getting into Europe remembering that we had played against the best teams to finish there.
If there was reconstruction it would have to be a 20 team league for me, even then I am not sure about it. Certainly not a rushed decision.

[Jones28]

We should not be proposing wholesale change to Scottish football at this time, there are many more clubs that win out of this than lose. Why should anyone vote to for the dilute an already weak prize pool?

**** Hearts. Send them down.

[ronaldo7]

A number of ways used in other leagues. My preferred option would be that 3rd gets Europe automatically (4th too if the cup winner has already qualified), and 4th-7th (5th-8th) go into a four team playoff. There's no special benefit to finishing in the bottom 8 (as the top 6 are guaranteed a shot at Europe) and there's an incentive to avoid the playoff altogether by finishing higher in the top 6.

This and expanded relegation/promotion slots/playoffs will result in a much more exciting league. If we make it so that 13th-14th are automatically relegated and 12th goes into a playoff, you could theoretically have a league where only 9th-11th don't qualify for something at the end of the season.

That said, knowing the SFA it'll be a fourteen team division with 1st-4th qualifying for Europe automatically, 14th being relegated and 13th going into that unfair playoff.


If we have 5 Euro places like next season could be play off between 5, 6 and 7

Thanks guys.

As another poster has said, I'd be rather hacked off if I'd been playing the top six for the remainder of the season, only for the 7th placed team to get a chance at Europe.

Too many games as well.

Thanks for the info though. :aok:

[PolmontHibby]

Always been in favour of a larger league but has to be 18 or 20 playing teams playing twice a season.

All the following are admittedly selfish views given with the caveat zero idea of potential financial impact on Hibs

1. Very rarely go to any game with Bigot Brothers despite having a season ticket - the less the better for me
2. More variety - really enjoyed visiting different grounds when in Championship
3. Potentially more games Saturday 3pm

[Wakeyhibee]

In other circumstances with genuine aims then yes. As it stands No

[Waxy]

Clearly the status quo is by miles the best option.
Partick and Stranraer are down and hearts will follow.
Hey they all finished bottom.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

A number of ways used in other leagues. My preferred option would be that 3rd gets Europe automatically (4th too if the cup winner has already qualified), and 4th-7th (5th-8th) go into a four team playoff. There's no special benefit to finishing in the bottom 8 (as the top 6 are guaranteed a shot at Europe) and there's an incentive to avoid the playoff altogether by finishing higher in the top 6.

This and expanded relegation/promotion slots/playoffs will result in a much more exciting league. If we make it so that 13th-14th are automatically relegated and 12th goes into a playoff, you could theoretically have a league where only 9th-11th don't qualify for something at the end of the season.

That said, knowing the SFA it'll be a fourteen team division with 1st-4th qualifying for Europe automatically, 14th being relegated and 13th going into that unfair playoff.

Nah, not for me. Don’t think you should be anywhere near Europe if you finish 7th. How many games would that be as well? Sure the bottom 8 would already be playing 40 games, plus play offs on top. Personally can’t see a single advantage of a 14 team league over 12.

[Michael]

Why does there have to be an 8/6 split? Surely 7/7 works better?

Two rounds of 13 fixtures plus two rounds of 6 fixtures. That's 38 games which is what we have now, plus everyone gets 19 home games. Works better than the current system

[Ozyhibby]

Why does there have to be an 8/6 split? Surely 7/7 works better?

Two rounds of 13 fixtures plus two rounds of 6 fixtures. That's 38 games which is what we have now, plus everyone gets 19 home games. Works better than the current system

With two teams sitting out each week doing nothing, it would take more matchdays to finish the league.
Also clubs like Hibs would lose a fixture v the top teams if we finished bottom 7. Just now if you have a bad season you still get three fixtures, but with this set up you only get two. How would we finance this? Sell Boyle?


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[Brunswickbill]

"No-one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise," Winston Churchill observed in 1947. "Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.” Substitute “12 team Premier League” for “democracy.”

[007]

Why does there have to be an 8/6 split? Surely 7/7 works better?

Two rounds of 13 fixtures plus two rounds of 6 fixtures. That's 38 games which is what we have now, plus everyone gets 19 home games. Works better than the current system


With two teams sitting out each week doing nothing, it would take more matchdays to finish the league.
Also clubs like Hibs would lose a fixture v the top teams if we finished bottom 7. Just now if you have a bad season you still get three fixtures, but with this set up you only get two. How would we finance this? Sell Boyle?


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All the teams, in the same "half" of the league, should play their final match on the same day at the same time otherwise there is an increased chance of sporting integrity going out the window and you could end up with a match like this one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n

When you consider how bad they are as it is, then imagine what the Jambo conspiracy theories and Sandy Clark's seethe levels would be like if in '86 Dundee had beaten Hearts and Celtic beaten St Mirren on different days.

[Michael]

All the teams, in the same "half" of the league, should play their final match on the same day at the same time otherwise there is an increased chance of sporting integrity going out the window and you could end up with a match like this one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n

When you consider how bad they are as it is, then imagine what the Jambo conspiracy theories and Sandy Clark's seethe levels would be like if in '86 Dundee had beaten Hearts and Celtic beaten St Mirren on different days.

Good point, this kills the 7/7 idea entirely.

[ColintonHibs]

Yes but I'd prefer 16 teams or 18 teams would be interesting. HUGE drawback would be less games against our biggest rivals.
Need to find a way to improve the lesser Scottish teams. Only 5 relevant teams IMO celtic, rangers, hibs, hearts, aberdeen. Used to also include Dundee United but what a shambles.

But then again.. you see teams with YOU'VE GOT NO FANS higher than us in the league. That's why I think it'll be interesting. Also love watching hibs games when we dominate the other team. Went to a game last year I think it was against Hamilton and we won 6-0. Was fun. But nothing compared to a derby win, OF or aberdeen.

[Peevemor]

This opportunism makes me boak and I hope that the proposals get rejected outright.

As per the SPFL vote and the subsequent UEFA decision the league should be called now. Hearts go down and Dundee Utd. go up. If and when we get some sort of directive from the authorities as to when the leagues can start afresh, with or without spectators, then might be the time to consider some sort of restructuration, temporary or otherwise, but taking shots in the dark would be madness.

[JimBHibees]

This opportunism makes me boak and I hope that the proposals get rejected outright.

As per the SPFL vote and the subsequent UEFA decision the league shouldd be called now. Hearts go down and Dundee Utd. co up. If and when we get some sort of directive from the authorities as to when the leagues can start afresh, with or without spectators, then might be the time to consider some sort of restructuration, temporary or otherwise, but taking shots in the dark would be madness.

Agree with every word.

[Ozyhibby]

https://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/04/27/6408/#.XqfmGSXTWaN

Clyde voting against 14-14-14 as it relegates the bottom four clubs in League 1.


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[Waxy]

https://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/04/27/6408/#.XqfmGSXTWaN

Clyde voting against 14-14-14 as it relegates the bottom four clubs in League 1.


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He has a great point. In trying to stop hearts being relegated 3 leagues of 14 would relegate 4 clubs to the bottom league.

Hearts surely have faced it. There is no solution.

[basehibby]

:top marks

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't behind league expansion before Hearts went into the relegation spot. If St Mirren were 12th the poll would be very different.

I've always been in favour of league expansion, and I prioritise what's best for Hibs over what's worst for Hearts, so league expansion it is.


This in spades.

The 12 team league with it's patently unfair conclusion whereby one team could be playing 18 home games while another plays 20 - NEEDS changed and people posting that they see no possible benefit to reconstruction frankly are lying - the benefit is obvious.

Of course there are disadvantages and drawbacks to any 14 team set up as well but I would argue that they are less problematic than the above.

The biggest disadvantage of course is that such a move would more than likely save the Gorgie puddle drinkers from relegation, and understandably that weighs heavily for many Hibees - it is certainly true that the vast majority of Yams would vote us down without so much as a by-your-leave were the boot on the other foot. Personally for me though, fairness and sporting integrity trump the hate-factor, and with a sizeable amount of games still to play, all of the bottom teams - not just the Yams - would have a right to feel agrieved were they relegated, and would probably have a strong case if they were to contest it legally.

So - a reconstruction to 3 x 14 would resolve all of the above very neatly and swiftly while also resolving the 18/20 home games farce - so, objectively, it would get my vote. Thankfully though it's not something that I, as a Hibee, will lose any sleep over. If the Maroon Balloons' get shunted down a league then so be it - I will still get to laugh in the face of some graceless fuds I know who double as Yam fanatics and will relish the moment regardless.

[Eyrie]

The 14-14-14 set up simply isn't viable when you consider the number of match days required.

You need 40 match days for the teams finishing in the bottom eight, and one of those teams will need a further two for the playoff matches and may also have a cup quarter, semi and final to be fitted in. Remember how our form faltered in 2016 when we had to fit in 36 league matches, league playoffs, and both cup finals. We wouldn't have won the Scottish Cup without the breather that we got by being knocked out of the playoffs.

Financially it's a disaster for Hibs. Why should anyone buy a season ticket when they don't know which half of the league they will be in post split? Far better to walk up for the first half of the season and then buy a half season if it looks like we'll finish in the top six. Attendances for bottom eight fixtures will be very poor.

A 16 or 18 team top flight will cause similar financial problems. And it won't help anyone else challenge for the title because the depth of squad that the Ugly Sisters can assemble means they are less likely to drop points than teams like us or Aberdeen, just as happens at the moment against the bottom six. Meanwhile we have a weaker squad due to the loss of income.

Whether we like it or not, the 12 team top flight is the least bad of our options.

[danhibees1875]

He has a great point. In trying to stop hearts being relegated 3 leagues of 14 would relegate 4 clubs to the bottom league.

Hearts surely have faced it. There is no solution.

What are a meagre 4 clubs when compared to the great heart of midlothian and their inherent right to stay in the top league?

[Aldo]

He has a great point. In trying to stop hearts being relegated 3 leagues of 14 would relegate 4 clubs to the bottom league.

Hearts surely have faced it. There is no solution.

Aye but you’ve got to remember they don’t give a **** who gets shafted..... as long as it’s not them!


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[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Aye but you’ve got to remember they don’t give a **** who gets shafted..... as long as it’s not them!


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I don't think you've taken into consideration that the famous have invested heavily therefore need to be saved rather than those rubbish wee clubs that have only lived within their means.

[hibbydog]

I'm completely against what is basically an expedient to save Hearts from going down and the consequences of it.

I can see a case for a sensible review of what's best long term, conducted at the right pace at the right time rather than a mad dash to do something immediately that wasn't really on the radar until Mrs Budge started the rallying call. There was no clamour to make radical instant change at the end of this season in January/February.

There might be a wish amongst a few to save Hearts and those clubs might see some benefit or gain some concessions as a result, but lets call it what it is, sure Sevco want to somehow blight Celtc's title win however it comes about, but the rest of this is about Hearts short term salvation and they won't look twice at any of the club's who might back Mrs Budge's plan if they later find themselves in trouble.

:top marks

[Aldo]

I don't think you've taken into consideration that the famous have invested heavily therefore need to be saved rather than those rubbish wee clubs that have only lived within their means.

Indeed it slipped my mind.

I’m sure she’s also quoted saying there are too many professional clubs in Scotland!


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[Bostonhibby]

Indeed it slipped my mind.

I’m sure she’s also quoted saying there are too many professional clubs in Scotland!


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkShe did, when she swooped in to revolutionise Scottish football she said exactly that.



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[Aldo]

She did, when she swooped in to revolutionise Scottish football she said exactly that.



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Says everything you need to know imho.


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[NadeAteMyLunch!]

This in spades.

The 12 team league with it's patently unfair conclusion whereby one team could be playing 18 home games while another plays 20 - NEEDS changed and people posting that they see no possible benefit to reconstruction frankly are lying - the benefit is obvious.

Of course there are disadvantages and drawbacks to any 14 team set up as well but I would argue that they are less problematic than the above.

The biggest disadvantage of course is that such a move would more than likely save the Gorgie puddle drinkers from relegation, and understandably that weighs heavily for many Hibees - it is certainly true that the vast majority of Yams would vote us down without so much as a by-your-leave were the boot on the other foot. Personally for me though, fairness and sporting integrity trump the hate-factor, and with a sizeable amount of games still to play, all of the bottom teams - not just the Yams - would have a right to feel agrieved were they relegated, and would probably have a strong case if they were to contest it legally.

So - a reconstruction to 3 x 14 would resolve all of the above very neatly and swiftly while also resolving the 18/20 home games farce - so, objectively, it would get my vote. Thankfully though it's not something that I, as a Hibee, will lose any sleep over. If the Maroon Balloons' get shunted down a league then so be it - I will still get to laugh in the face of some graceless fuds I know who double as Yam fanatics and will relish the moment regardless.

I’d far rather have one less home game than be stuck in the bottom 8 with 14 poorly attended bore fests if we happen to finish outside the top 6

[basehibby]

The 14-14-14 set up simply isn't viable when you consider the number of match days required.

You need 40 match days for the teams finishing in the bottom eight, and one of those teams will need a further two for the playoff matches and may also have a cup quarter, semi and final to be fitted in. Remember how our form faltered in 2016 when we had to fit in 36 league matches, league playoffs, and both cup finals. We wouldn't have won the Scottish Cup without the breather that we got by being knocked out of the playoffs.

Financially it's a disaster for Hibs. Why should anyone buy a season ticket when they don't know which half of the league they will be in post split? Far better to walk up for the first half of the season and then buy a half season if it looks like we'll finish in the top six. Attendances for bottom eight fixtures will be very poor.

A 16 or 18 team top flight will cause similar financial problems. And it won't help anyone else challenge for the title because the depth of squad that the Ugly Sisters can assemble means they are less likely to drop points than teams like us or Aberdeen, just as happens at the moment against the bottom six. Meanwhile we have a weaker squad due to the loss of income.

Whether we like it or not, the 12 team top flight is the least bad of our options.

Re the bit in bold - nonsense!
1) There is simply no need for play offs - 2 up 2 down - nice and simple.
2) Wasn't so long ago that we had a 44 game league program - and down south they play 46. So how would a bottom half of teh table - needful of extra revenue - not be able to manage 40 fixtures?

Re the question of why buy a ST when you don't know how many games you'll see - also nonsense as that's exactly what we do now only with the possibility of having less games per pound than fans of our direct competitors.

Re the last statement - that is the biggest pile of drivel of all. There are lots of conurbations - all of which has it's pros and cons, but the current set up is probably the WORST possible out of the lot as it isn't even fair from a sporting point of view - how much badder can you get than that FFS?!?

[WhileTheChief..]

Agree with me or you’re a liar!

Erm no.

I like the split, I don’t see a big issue in the number of home or away games and I don’t want an expanded league.

Nothing to do with where Hearts are just now.

[basehibby]

https://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/04/27/6408/#.XqfmGSXTWaN

Clyde voting against 14-14-14 as it relegates the bottom four clubs in League 1.


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The guy is obviously thick as pig****. No team would be relegated in the event of this kind of reconstruction. The entirety of league 2 would be promoted however.

NB - the effect of playing smaller teams would be effectively the same though.

[superfurryhibby]

:top marks

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't behind league expansion before Hearts went into the relegation spot. If St Mirren were 12th the poll would be very different.

I've always been in favour of league expansion, and I prioritise what's best for Hibs over what's worst for Hearts, so league expansion it is.

A bigger league will not benefit Hibs financially.

[007]

https://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/04/27/6408/#.XqfmGSXTWaN

Clyde voting against 14-14-14 as it relegates the bottom four clubs in League 1.


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He has a great point. In trying to stop hearts being relegated 3 leagues of 14 would relegate 4 clubs to the bottom league.

Hearts surely have faced it. There is no solution.

Spot on.

Budge will be trying to convince Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and her new pal, the Stranraer Chief Exec, "You won't be getting relegated, it's just that the 10 teams in the league below and most of the teams in your league are getting promoted. So as you can see, that's completely different from you getting relegated. "

[lord bunberry]

The guy is obviously thick as pig****. No team would be relegated in the event of this kind of reconstruction. The entirety of league 2 would be promoted however.

NB - the effect of playing smaller teams would be effectively the same though.
The teams currently in league one would be in the bottom division next season with the potential to relegated. The status quo takes that fear away.

[Peevemor]

The teams currently in league one would be in the bottom division next season with the potential to relegated. The status quo takes that fear away.

Exactly - 10 teams promoted to join 4 others can only be seen as relegation for the 4.

[Frankhfc]

I really like the premiership as it stands currently. There's plenty to play for within the top middle and bottom positions throughout the season. I've watched Hibs in bigger and smaller league structures both of which had less excitement and less meaningful games. The 12 with the split and play off is easily my favourite format. I'm firmly against league reconstruction for these reasons alone, however, especially so when its only purpose appears to be in order to save Hearts from being, imo, deservedly relegated. If St Mirren had finished bottom there'd be zero calls for reconstruction.

[Future17]

The guy is obviously thick as pig****. No team would be relegated in the event of this kind of reconstruction. The entirety of league 2 would be promoted however.

NB - the effect of playing smaller teams would be effectively the same though.

Brilliant editing. You probably should just have deleted your post. :rolleyes:

[Eyrie]

Re the bit in bold - nonsense!
1) There is simply no need for play offs - 2 up 2 down - nice and simple.
2) Wasn't so long ago that we had a 44 game league program - and down south they play 46. So how would a bottom half of teh table - needful of extra revenue - not be able to manage 40 fixtures?

Re the question of why buy a ST when you don't know how many games you'll see - also nonsense as that's exactly what we do now only with the possibility of having less games per pound than fans of our direct competitors.

Re the last statement - that is the biggest pile of drivel of all. There are lots of conurbations - all of which has it's pros and cons, but the current set up is probably the WORST possible out of the lot as it isn't even fair from a sporting point of view - how much badder can you get than that FFS?!?

1 - OK, but try selling only two up to the lower divisions. In addition to the reduced chance of promotion, how many more meaningless games will it create?
2 - Just because we used to cram in more fixtures doesn't make it a good idea. And comparing it to a lower league is irrelevant.

You have also completely misunderstood the season ticket point. It's not about how many games I'll see, which should be 19 but could equally be 18 or 20, it's who those games are against and how easy it is to get tickets for those games. Clubs will also make more money from an extra visit from the Ugly Sisters (gate, hospitality, advertising since its on TV) that they will from two home games against Dundee and Hamilton.

I actually agree with you that the current imbalance of home and away fixtures needs fixed, but attempting to solve that with a fourteen team league raises far more issues than it solves.

[lord bunberry]

Exactly - 10 teams promoted to join 4 others can only be seen as relegation for the 4.
:agree: And they might end up in the Lowland/Highland league in one season.

[chippy]

I’d far rather have one less home game than be stuck in the bottom 8 with 14 poorly attended bore fests if we happen to finish outside the top 6

why would it need to be a bore fest? Winner of bottom 8 and possibly 2nd place could be in a Euro spot play off with 4,5,6 in top 6. This would depend who won the cup. If a top 4 club won the cup then 5, 6, 7, 8 could play off for the 5th Euro place, otherwise 4,5,6,7 play off for it. Then there’s the relegation battle, 2 down for me.

[Waxy]

What are a meagre 4 clubs when compared to the great heart of midlothian and their inherent right to stay in the top league?

Just Clyde and Peterhead who are both well clear of the relegation area, plus Forfar and Stranraer would all be relegated. Also Cove Rangers wouldnt be promoted.All to save the jambos from their deserved demotion.

[hibbyfraelibby]

:top marks

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't behind league expansion before Hearts went into the relegation spot. If St Mirren were 12th the poll would be very different.

I've always been in favour of league expansion, and I prioritise what's best for Hibs over what's worst for Hearts, so league expansion it is.

You would have found me. Reconstruction yes expansion no.

[Waxy]

Apparently 80% of players want reconstruction say the bbc.
Must have asked 5 Jambos.

[Peevemor]

Apparently 80% of players want reconstruction say the bbc.
Must have asked 5 Jambos.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha...!

How would they know?

[ancient hibee]

why would it need to be a bore fest? Winner of bottom 8 and possibly 2nd place could be in a Euro spot play off with 4,5,6 in top 6. This would depend who won the cup. If a top 4 club won the cup then 5, 6, 7, 8 could play off for the 5th Euro place, otherwise 4,5,6,7 play off for it. Then there’s the relegation battle, 2 down for me.
Why would there be any euro play off.Surely awarded on league positions.

[chippy]

Why would there be any euro play off.Surely awarded on league positions.

To make the bottom 8 split interesting and reduce so called meaningless games, why not?

[Paul1642]

To make the bottom 8 split interesting and reduce so called meaningless games, why not?

Because what’s the point in playing well against the top sides for months just to have it all erased come down to a play off against a team who are the best out of the likes of Dundee, Hamilton and St Mirren.

[007]

I really like the premiership as it stands currently. There's plenty to play for within the top middle and bottom positions throughout the season. I've watched Hibs in bigger and smaller league structures both of which had less excitement and less meaningful games. The 12 with the split and play off is easily my favourite format. I'm firmly against league reconstruction for these reasons alone, however, especially so when its only purpose appears to be in order to save Hearts from being, imo, deservedly relegated. If St Mirren had finished bottom there'd be zero calls for reconstruction.

I've heard quite a few people (both fans and pundits) say the current format, particularly the split, works well. I agree though recognise the potential of an imbalance of home/away games after the split is a flaw but for me this is by far more preferable than the flaws of the alternative structures.

As the current structure on the whole works well and crowds have been good, to change the format of the leagues now would be a massive gamble. To take such a big gamble at a time of crisis like this could have a very negative impact. We need as much stability as possible and just now is the worst time to be taking risks like changing something that works. Budge herself doesn't want a permanent change as she knows fine well it's a change to a worse structure.

[Ozyhibby]

Apparently 80% of players want reconstruction say the bbc.
Must have asked 5 Jambos.

Their opinion is no more valid than punters on a message board. What matters is the opinions of the owners and directors of the clubs.
I imagine the players might change their tune when told wages would need cut to accommodate a less profitable set up.


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[Ozyhibby]

To make the bottom 8 split interesting and reduce so called meaningless games, why not?

Uefa would not be keen on countries handing out qualification spots to their prestige tournaments to teams who have not earned it.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Uefa would not be keen on countries handing out qualification spots to their prestige tournaments to teams who have not earned it.


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Have you seen the Belgian system? You can finish way down the league and still qualify for Europe, albeit through a bunch of play-offs.

I just looked it up, it's even more mental than I remembered. Teams 7-15 from the top division (of 16) plus 3 teams from the second division play off in 2 mini leagues. The winners of the 2 mini leagues play off in a single match and the winner of that plays another single match against the 4th team from the team 1-6 play off group.

[007]

why would it need to be a bore fest? Winner of bottom 8 and possibly 2nd place could be in a Euro spot play off with 4,5,6 in top 6. This would depend who won the cup. If a top 4 club won the cup then 5, 6, 7, 8 could play off for the 5th Euro place, otherwise 4,5,6,7 play off for it. Then there’s the relegation battle, 2 down for me.

I'd guess there would be a decent crowd for the playoff for the spot in the new Euro tournament but a lot would give the preceding 2 x 7 matches versus Inverness, Hamilton, St Mirren, St Johnstone, Ross County, Kilmarnock and Livingston a miss.

[ancient hibee]

To make the bottom 8 split interesting and reduce so called meaningless games, why not?

So Hibs finish 5th and could lose a euro place to a team say 20 points behind them and who have played the second half of the season against all the weaker teams.Not for me.

[Smiggy 7-0]

NOT for me, for one season only, just to save them. Would they save us.
Always remember when we were in the Championship 'Biscuits' on radio saying 'we don't need Hibs in the Premier League'. Aye well same applies. We can all do without Hearts.

[Onion]

So, Hibs voting YES to calling the league cost us a top 6 finish and £125k due to the points adjustment. All other teams (other than STJ) remain in their current positions ? So, if they then agree to expand the league to 14 teams - Hearts and ICT will be much better off and Hibs will be the only club to have lost money in this whole adjustment ?

[Waxy]

Hearts are down. Thats what passed with the vote count.

[Sylar]

I'm not against change - but it has to be progressive change for the long-term benefit of the game up here. Not a decision that benefits any particular club, duopoly or cabal in the short-term.

Something that reduces the 4 times a season slog - fine. Removing the split, definitely. Temporarily halting relegation and adding clubs to prevent lawsuits from those most likely to pursue them, **** that.

[theonlywayisup]

Sorry, I'm a bit out of touch with the latest. Have they confirmed the timeline for the reconstruction vote?

[Ozyhibby]

Sorry, I'm a bit out of touch with the latest. Have they confirmed the timeline for the reconstruction vote?

They haven’t even agreed among themselves what they want. They will be lucky to even put something to the vote to be honest.


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[007]

Sorry, I'm a bit out of touch with the latest. Have they confirmed the timeline for the reconstruction vote?

Les Gray wants it in about a month's time but Budge wants in about a week's time. No doubt so she can have one a week until one either passes the voting or we reach the UEFA deadline date of 25th May and the league has to be called. Not even sure she'd give up at that point though she'd then be voting as a Championship team.

[Jim44]

Apparently 80% of players want reconstruction say the bbc.
Must have asked 5 Jambos.

Pedant alert: They must have asked 4 Hearts players and one Hibs player.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

why would it need to be a bore fest? Winner of bottom 8 and possibly 2nd place could be in a Euro spot play off with 4,5,6 in top 6. This would depend who won the cup. If a top 4 club won the cup then 5, 6, 7, 8 could play off for the 5th Euro place, otherwise 4,5,6,7 play off for it. Then there’s the relegation battle, 2 down for me.

If Hibs finished 7th, missing out on top 6 on say goal difference but had a decent lead over 4 or 5 teams scrapping around at the bottom(not wholly unlikely based on previous seasons) then back to back games with Hamilton, ICT, St Mirren, Ross County etc in a 10 week period would be awful. Even the thought of an outside pop at Europe wouldn’t get folk attending 14 games in a row against absolute rubbish.
Also don’t think a team finishing 8th potentially getting one of our 4 euro spots is fair or a good idea with regards to representing us abroad/improving the co-efficient. Although that is a different argument from the boredom element I accept.
Still don’t see a single advantage of a 14 team league over what we have. Strap a lie detector to Budge and she won’t either.

[Eyrie]

There are only two ways to abolish the split and still have a reasonable number of league games.

The first would be a return to ten team leagues, with one automatic relegation spot and second bottom playing the winner of a second/third play off.
But that would mean removing two teams from the SPFL (otherwise one league would have 44 games) which would be very difficult even for Budge who is on record as saying there are too many teams. I know which two teams I'd get rid off, but no other league wants them despite their tame media speculating on their behalf.

The other would be to return to a twenty team top flight, playing each other twice, but that leaves a lot of meaningless midtable fixtures. The bottom league would then be 22 teams and 42 games, which may present a problem for part time players.

Open to suggestions on any other way to avoid some kind of split.

Otherwise it's the current top/bottom six, 12/12(8/8/8) or 14 splitting into 6/8.

[ancient hibee]

I see that the players are generally heavily in favour of reconstruction.Two questions they haven’t been asked.

1. Are you in favour of reconstruction if it means that the income of your club drops with a danger to its ability to pay wages.

2. Are you in favour of reconstruction if it increases the chance of your club being relegated and entering a period of financial difficulty.

[Waxy]

I see that the players are generally heavily in favour of reconstruction.Two questions they haven’t been asked.

1. Are you in favour of reconstruction if it means that the income of your club drops with a danger to its ability to pay wages.

2. Are you in favour of reconstruction if it increases the chance of your club being relegated and entering a period of financial difficulty.

Well who where the players they asked?
Because hardly any fans want reconstrustion.
12 team league is a MUST to keep.
Anything else is less balanced.

[Real Emerald]

No one has mentioned what Sky will think of any reconstruction either. I think if we were making changes to their negotiated deal by changing the league structure they will have every right to either renegotiate the deal or walk away. I think Sky would be delighted to take that opportunity to save some or all of their money. We would be changing what was agreed.

That is probably the first question they should get an answer to because there will be no chance of reconstruction if the deal is going to fall through.

[lord bunberry]

I just watched the Ayr owner who is on the reconstruction panel, and he said he would vote against 14/14/14 or 14/10/10/10.

[danhibees1875]

Well who where the players they asked?
Because hardly any fans want reconstrustion.
12 team league is a MUST to keep.
Anything else is less balanced.

I've only seen one poll on it and fans seemed to favour reconstruction. :dunno:

Where have you seen fans being against it? (Other than here it course)

[lord bunberry]

I've only seen one poll on it and fans seemed to favour reconstruction. :dunno:

Where have you seen fans being against it? (Other than here it course)
I think the reconstruction the fans favour is 2 leagues and obviously only playing each other twice.

[danhibees1875]

I think the reconstruction the fans favour is 2 leagues and obviously only playing each other twice.

The only poll I've seen didn't include that.

It was 14/14/14 or 14-10-10-10 or status quo. 43% 27% 30% respectively.

It wasn't the biggest or most conclusive poll, but I've not seen any others.

[Numptie]

Donald Findlay speaking on the nine says it's a no from Cowdenbeith. Also spoke out against ra gers!

[lord bunberry]

The only poll I've seen didn't include that.

It was 14/14/14 or 14-10-10-10 or status quo. 43% 27% 30% respectively.

It wasn't the biggest or most conclusive poll, but I've not seen any others.
I just can’t for the life of me see what advantages there are to either of those proposals. It’s just more of the same with slightly different numbers. It’s either status quo or radical change for me. The radical change is two divisions in Scotland of 20 and 22. I watch the plz soccer show on YouTube most days and the Ayr owner said exactly the same today and he’s on the reconstruction committee.

[Dr What If?]

It is a shame we are arguing reconstruction on this stage.....a one off to save Hearts going down. Trying to be as neutral as possible I would agree that it isn't fair they get relegated.....this bloody virus is a lot less fair....deaths, sickness, job losses....its horrible! From a football only perspective though, relegation is the least unfair decision open.....14 teams for one season is unfair on every one else, panic driven reconstruction would be a disaster.....and what about the fans? Where is the excitement if we change the league just because in someones opinion the wrong team went down? Maybe we should change other rules and make Motherwell champions because they have the best points to turnover ratio? Why would that not be fair?
No, reconstruction is something I firmly believe is needed in out league. 14 teams could work, a 7/7 split midway makes more sense than a 6/6 after three rounds, a huge second tier followed by regional pyramid.....perfect? Yeh, some will argue....and so they should. It should be agreed by at least the majority with all stakeholders and done for the better of the game. To save one club? For a single season? Does Scottish football not like having fans?

[Andy74]

Nobody seemed that bothered about it until football stopped.

Relegated clubs do not need protected. We are all going to be worse off. They will just be getting the relative hit they’d have been getting for being the worst team in the league anyway.

I’m confident most clubs will see through it.

[lord bunberry]

Nobody seemed that bothered about it until football stopped.

Relegated clubs do not need protected. We are all going to be worse off. They will just be getting the relative hit they’d have been getting for being the worst team in the league anyway.

I’m confident most clubs will see through it.
I agree, the clubs most at risk won’t be the lower league clubs who rarely spend out with their means. The clubs that might struggle will be teams like hearts and rangers, who would’ve struggled without the league stopping.

[007]

I just can’t for the life of me see what advantages there are to either of those proposals. It’s just more of the same with slightly different numbers. It’s either status quo or radical change for me. The radical change is two divisions in Scotland of 20 and 22. I watch the plz soccer show on YouTube most days and the Ayr owner said exactly the same today and he’s on the reconstruction committee.

I watch that show too and they've been banging on about how Hearts have to be saved. They're even worse than Sportsound. The other day Darren Jackson even gave the reason they have to be saved is because they have the 3rd biggest crowds and the 3rd biggest stadium.

[we are hibs]

https://twitter.com/thecouriersport/status/1255770627127914496?s=19


Forfar against a 14x3 set up.

[Waxy]

https://twitter.com/thecouriersport/status/1255770627127914496?s=19


Forfar against a 14x3 set up.
Peterhead also

[Paul1642]

https://twitter.com/thecouriersport/status/1255770627127914496?s=19


Forfar against a 14x3 set up.

He makes a good point that at the present stage “ just about every one of the 42 clubs in Scotland still had something to play for”. A quick look at the tables made me realise just how true that is. There is hardly a team in Scotland that currently isn’t in the running for a euro spot, league win or playoff spot, or at the other end of the table clear from relegation / play off.

The current league set up might not be perfect but it minimises the number of pointless games that most bigger leagues suffer from and that might be why our teams see a pretty good attendance in comparison to our population. If it’s not broken don’t fix it.

[007]

https://twitter.com/thecouriersport/status/1255770627127914496?s=19


Forfar against a 14x3 set up.


Peterhead also

Not really a surprise I suppose that the teams in 7th, 8th and 9th in league one are against it. The 10 teams from the league below joining them whilst the 6 above them go up a league is effectively relegating them.

Would presume Cove Rangers will be against it too. Imagine getting promotion only to find yourselves still in a league alongside all the others you beat.

[hibbyfraelibby]

I watch that show too and they've been banging on about how Hearts have to be saved. They're even worse than Sportsound. The other day Darren Jackson even gave the reason they have to be saved is because they have the 3rd biggest crowds and the 3rd biggest stadium.

6th Biggest football stadium after Celtic, The Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibernian...and Queens Park (at a push😉) and their crowds are 5th.

[Lago]

I just can’t for the life of me see what advantages there are to either of those proposals. It’s just more of the same with slightly different numbers. It’s either status quo or radical change for me. The radical change is two divisions in Scotland of 20 and 22. I watch the plz soccer show on YouTube most days and the Ayr owner said exactly the same today and he’s on the reconstruction committee.

I would guess your not as old as me & don't remember the old days of a First division consisting of the number of clubs your suggesting, end of season football was a non event, nothing to play for, miniscule crowds with tumble weed blowing around the terracing, you could hear every word spoken on the pitch because fans made zero noise.

[lord bunberry]

I watch that show too and they've been banging on about how Hearts have to be saved. They're even worse than Sportsound. The other day Darren Jackson even gave the reason they have to be saved is because they have the 3rd biggest crowds and the 3rd biggest stadium.
Thankfully I didn’t watch the one with him on it.

[lord bunberry]

I would guess your not as old as me & don't remember the old days of a First division consisting of the number of clubs your suggesting, end of season football was a non event, nothing to play for, miniscule crowds with tumble weed blowing around the terracing, you could hear every word spoken on the pitch because fans made zero noise.
They manage leagues of that size in other countries. If you have 4 up and 4 down and we have 5 Euro places you’re not going to have that many meaningless games.

[Bristolhibby]

I would guess your not as old as me & don't remember the old days of a First division consisting of the number of clubs your suggesting, end of season football was a non event, nothing to play for, miniscule crowds with tumble weed blowing around the terracing, you could hear every word spoken on the pitch because fans made zero noise.

Why is the English Premier League not like what you described?

I went to a Southampton v Stoke game towards the end of the season a couple of years ago and it was great. (Southampton lost 0-1 though).

J

[Ozyhibby]

They manage leagues of that size in other countries. If you have 4 up and 4 down and we have 5 Euro places you’re not going to have that many meaningless games.

You don’t add to the quality of a league by adding weaker teams. I’d rather watch a game v Aberdeen or Celtic rather than v ICT and so would most other fans going by the attendances at those games. The club is a business and has invested heavily in infrastructure like East Mains. A lot of that would become unaffordable without those big games that fans want to see.
People say fans are bored playing each other 4 times a season but when we get the chance to play a lower league team in cups the attendance plummets. Actions speak louder than words.
I don’t want to have to sell the like of Boyle just to pay for a reconstruction that sounds good in peoples heads but bares no relation to fans behaviour. We want the big games. That’s what we show up for. But we are also fans and are happy to delay that gratification slightly to see Hearts go down. And when they come back up, give me two Derby’s at Easter road any day over a visit from Dundee.


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[Since452]

If we're going to reconstruct the league and have 14 teams let's go with..

Hibs
Hearts
Celtic
Sevco
Aberdeen
Dundee
Dundee United
Dunfermline
Kilmarnock
Ayr
Motherwell
St Mirren
Falkirk
Raith Rovers

Make it more appealing. 5 local derbys and plenty grudge matches.

Obviously would never happen but that's the only reconstruction that would get me interested and make our game more of a spectacle.

The thought of having Livingston, Hamilton, Inverness, Ross County, St Johnstone in the same league fills me with dread.

[Onion]

Why is the English Premier League not like what you described?

I went to a Southampton v Stoke game towards the end of the season a couple of years ago and it was great. (Southampton lost 0-1 though).

J

Agree, the old first division of 18 teams resulted in dead games for many towards the end of the season who had nothing to play for, and 2 points for a win.

You can't compare it with the EPL, the most successful league in the world. In a league of 20, EPL clubs are playing for 9 or 10 places that have big financial implications. That means virtually every team is striving for Europe or avoiding relegation throughout the season.

[Lago]

Why is the English Premier League not like what you described?

I went to a Southampton v Stoke game towards the end of the season a couple of years ago and it was great. (Southampton lost 0-1 though).

J
I'll answer you & Lord Bunberry as a one, the problem is money, or more accurately a lack of money, apart from a few teams the rest would be merely cannon fodder. Down South even the weak teams have money and can recruit at a reasonable level. Believe me you can't replicate that in Scotland, just a fact of life.

[ancient hibee]

If we're going to reconstruct the league and have 14 teams let's go with..

Hibs
Hearts
Celtic
Sevco
Aberdeen
Dundee
Dundee United
Dunfermline
Kilmarnock
Ayr
Motherwell
St Mirren
Falkirk
Raith Rovers

Make it more appealing. 5 local derbys and plenty grudge matches.

Obviously would never happen but that's the only reconstruction that would get me interested and make our game more of a spectacle.

The thought of having Livingston, Hamilton, Inverness, Ross County, St Johnstone in the same league fills me with dread.

Strange.Four of them are in the same league now and four of them have won trophies some quite recently.

[lord bunberry]

You don’t add to the quality of a league by adding weaker teams. I’d rather watch a game v Aberdeen or Celtic rather than v ICT and so would most other fans going by the attendances at those games. The club is a business and has invested heavily in infrastructure like East Mains. A lot of that would become unaffordable without those big games that fans want to see.
People say fans are bored playing each other 4 times a season but when we get the chance to play a lower league team in cups the attendance plummets. Actions speak louder than words.
I don’t want to have to sell the like of Boyle just to pay for a reconstruction that sounds good in peoples heads but bares no relation to fans behaviour. We want the big games. That’s what we show up for. But we are also fans and are happy to delay that gratification slightly to see Hearts go down. And when they come back up, give me two Derby’s at Easter road any day over a visit from Dundee.


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I don’t want reconstruction either, I was making the point that moving to a bigger league doesn’t necessarily mean lots of meaningless games.

[Since452]

Strange.Four of them are in the same league now and four of them have won trophies some quite recently.

It's already bad enough with four of them

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

You don’t add to the quality of a league by adding weaker teams. I’d rather watch a game v Aberdeen or Celtic rather than v ICT and so would most other fans going by the attendances at those games. The club is a business and has invested heavily in infrastructure like East Mains. A lot of that would become unaffordable without those big games that fans want to see.
People say fans are bored playing each other 4 times a season but when we get the chance to play a lower league team in cups the attendance plummets. Actions speak louder than words.
I don’t want to have to sell the like of Boyle just to pay for a reconstruction that sounds good in peoples heads but bares no relation to fans behaviour. We want the big games. That’s what we show up for. But we are also fans and are happy to delay that gratification slightly to see Hearts go down. And when they come back up, give me two Derby’s at Easter road any day over a visit from Dundee.


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If it’s attendances and big games that attracts fans, then should Hearts not be relegated?

[Peevemor]

If we're going to reconstruct the league and have 14 teams let's go with..

Hibs
Hearts
Celtic
Sevco
Aberdeen
Dundee
Dundee United
Dunfermline
Kilmarnock
Ayr
Motherwell
St Mirren
Falkirk
Raith Rovers

Make it more appealing. 5 local derbys and plenty grudge matches.

Obviously would never happen but that's the only reconstruction that would get me interested and make our game more of a spectacle.

The thought of having Livingston, Hamilton, Inverness, Ross County, St Johnstone in the same league fills me with dread.What a ridiculous post.

[007]

Surely having a big club like Hearts in their league will help the Championship teams. Even though a small but noisy number of them on social media say they'll boycott away grounds, they'll still take a decent crowd to away games.

[Since452]

What a ridiculous post.

What's rediculous about it? Not having a go just seems a bit of an OTT reaction

[Peevemor]

What's rediculous about it?What makes Ayr, Falkirk or Raith Rovers more interesting than the others that you've written off, some of whom managed fine in the SPL when we spent 3 seasons in the second tier?

Teams should be in whatever league on merit, not because you fancy them.

[Since452]

What makes Ayr, Falkirk or Raith Rovers more interesting than the others that you've written off, some of whom managed fine in the SPL when we spent 3 seasons in the second tier?

Teams should be in whatever league on merit, not because you fancy them.

It was hypothetical as you would have seen if you'd read my whole post I said it would obviously never happen.


Ayr v Killie attracted 25k in the cup at Hampden
The Fife Derby had 10k at East End a few years ago
Falkirk v Dunfermline is a great fixture, almost a derby with a good healthy crowd.


To me that's far better than Livingston v Hamilton on a plastic pitch which attracts about 1000 fans.

Like I said it's hypothetical and would obviously never happen 👍

[Ozyhibby]

If it’s attendances and big games that attracts fans, then should Hearts not be relegated?

Hearts absolutely should be relegated. It will be bad for us financially but only a tiny amount compared to how bad it is for them.
You can have an opinion on what is best for the game while still wishing the worst for Hearts. Or I can at least.[emoji3]


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