Reconstruction - an alternative view

[theonlywayisup]

I know the question has been asked before, but what would Scottish Football look like without the Old Firm. Just say we said, "right piss off to the lower leagues in England" and leave Scottish Football to the rest.

Imagine, teams like Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell and, yes, Hertz, having the opportunity to actually win the SPFL and entry into the Champions League. I'd imagine that the league would be a lot more competitive. To offset, the loss of the Old Firm, I would 'invite' a non-religious Glasgow City team into the league starting in League 2.

Would the Old Firm start to climb the leagues in England? Or would they struggle as many big city teams have done before, such as the Birmingham teams (population circa 1 million), Leeds (population circa 700,000), Sheffield (circa 500,000), Bradford (circa 470,000) etc.

Would football fans actually start to support their local team, instead of choosing their team based on whether they are Protestant or Catholic, especially if the Rangers or Celtic big game is home to Rotherham United or an away trip to Rochdale?

Imagine if we lost the "Celtic bias" or "The Rangers bias" that suffocates Scottish Football.

Thoughts? I know it's never going to happen, but...............

[Eyrie]

I know the question has been asked before, but what would Scottish Football look like without the Old Firm. Just say we said, "right piss off to the lower leagues in England" and leave Scottish Football to the rest.

Imagine, teams like Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell and, yes, Hertz, having the opportunity to actually win the SPFL and entry into the Champions League. I'd imagine that the league would be a lot more competitive. To offset, the loss of the Old Firm, I would 'invite' a non-religious Glasgow City team into the league starting in League 2.

Would the Old Firm start to climb the leagues in England? Or would they struggle as many big city teams have done before, such as the Birmingham teams (population circa 1 million), Leeds (population circa 700,000), Sheffield (circa 500,000), Bradford (circa 470,000) etc.

Would football fans actually start to support their local team, instead of choosing their team based on whether they are Protestant or Catholic, especially if the Rangers or Celtic big game is home to Rotherham United or an away trip to Rochdale?

Imagine if we lost the "Celtic bias" or "The Rangers bias" that suffocates Scottish Football.

Thoughts? I know it's never going to happen, but...............

If Carlsberg did reconstructions ….

[horseflesh]

Celtic and The Rangers would both do well in England eventually, the cash and investment would be off the scale and I believe they would have a chance of winning the premiership in time.
The problem would be that the door would have to be open to all Scottish clubs (maybe Scottish champions) and therefore our game up here would become a back water.
For these reasons, this will never be a reality

[McD]

If Carlsberg did reconstructions ….


:agree:

we’d have a league where a minimum of 3 and possibly more like 6 teams would have relative parity and a good chance to win trophies at the start of every season. We’d start to move away from Glasgow/hampden is seen as the centre of the universe, where refereeing wouldn’t be in favour of the Glasgow 2...

[Waxy]

No chance of them going while its easy qualification for the champions league.More chance of English teams such as Newcastle/Soondalind/ Carlisle moving up here

[Hibs Class]

The inherent hatred and bigotry that is embedded in both clubs probably means we’ll be stuck with them because no one else will want them, or accept them.

[jacomo]

:agree:

we’d have a league where a minimum of 3 and possibly more like 6 teams would have relative parity and a good chance to win trophies at the start of every season. We’d start to move away from Glasgow/hampden is seen as the centre of the universe, where refereeing wouldn’t be in favour of the Glasgow 2...


The Glasgow media would still be dominated by the ugly sisters. The rest of us would get ignored.

[Antifa Hibs]

Give it 15-20 years and i'd fully expect it to be Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen - then the rest. We're the only clubs from large cities with potentially massive fan bases. Motherwell could win the league and would probably still struggle to sellout for the flag day. No dis-respect to the other clubs just the way it is.

Regarding people supporting their local teams then no that wouldn't change. The fanny's from outside Greater Glasgow that support Rangers and Celtic now aren't going to decide to support Accies and Raith Rovers. Besides i'd say the premier league is a bigger threat to us now then the OF. The amount of people in workplaces, pubs etc "I support Man U", referring to Liverpool as "us and we" is staggering.

Give it a few seasons and steady investment both would do very well IMO. Make it to championship no bother, couple of seasons in there maybe then progress up the premier league, especially Celtic. Huge worldwide "fanbase" to tap into of Irish and Scottish ex-pats. Both would sell out no bother aswell every week - home and away allocations. I also read if the Celtc knocked down their main stand and replicated it with the stand opposite they would have one of the biggest club grounds in the UK, near Old Trafford capacity.

[Paisley Hibby]

The inherent hatred and bigotry that is embedded in both clubs probably means we’ll be stuck with them because no one else will want them, or accept them.

Well they certainly don't want The Rangers.

[Paisley Hibby]

The Glasgow media would still be dominated by the ugly sisters. The rest of us would get ignored.

Think Wales - Swansea and Cardiff City in the English leagues. How do the Welsh League and teams look in comparison?

[Kato]

The inherent hatred and bigotry that is embedded in both clubs probably means we’ll be stuck with them because no one else will want them, or accept them.Culturally they'll never be accepted by the EPL. If they were they'd be sending them back within 2 seasons.

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[DH1875]

Either us, Aberdeen or hearts would just take the place of the oldfirm though. We'd/they'd get the league and champions league money and pull away from the rest. It's how it works. Just have a look at most leagues in Europe. Only a couple of teams in them ever likely to win it.

[CentreLine]

Unfortunately the SPFL and SFA would want to keep a form of rantic here and allow them to field a second team as part of our setup. We would keep the bigotry here in Scotland as well.
Imma cup half empty kind of guy 🥺

[Craig_in_Prague]

The large income in England is from TV, Hibs and Hearts would also do well. So why just Old Firm??

[Keith_M]

The large income in England is from TV, Hibs and Hearts would also do well. So why just Old Firm??



If I was in charge of the EPL, I'd see the potential TV money from inviting the Ulgy Sisters into the league as a big draw. They also have guaranteed home gates of 50k and 60k.

If truth be told, most people in England could hardly name any other Scottish clubs (apparently, Ian Blackford supports Celtc because his favourite team plays in green).


The only reason they wouldn't be invited is that the other clubs wouldn't want them, as they might lose out on Premier League places, so would lose money. It would have nothing to do with morals.

[ScottB]

What’s the value, really?

How many Old Firm fans are there that aren’t already Sky customers that would sign up to watch them in England? Let’s be super generous and say 50,000, £100 a month each, £60 million a year. The TV contract is measured in billions, the relegated team gets twice that in payments.

They really aren’t worth all that much in the big scheme of things, and bring significant drawbacks; bigotry, travel costs, over just hoping some of the big sides in the Championship down eventually make it to the top.

[Eyrie]

The large income in England is from TV, Hibs and Hearts would also do well. So why just Old Firm??

I'm not so sure about doing well, unless we have different definitions.

There are larger cities than Edinburgh which aren't represented in the EPL so the likelihood is that we'd be a Championship club and a successful season sees us challenging for promotion. If we did manage that, we'd struggle to stay up each year and certainly wouldn't be able to compete financially with the top half of the table.

At least in Scotland Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen have a decent chance of a European place or cup run.

[lucky]

Scottish football would become a footballing backwater, unfortunately, just look at Wales. To begin with Hibs, Aberdeen and Hearts would prosper but over time we’d all lose some fans interest. It’s bad enough that the Scottish press is obsessed with the Old Firm and the EPL just now. If the OF were to join there would be little coverage in Scotland of our league. Future generations would be more interested in seeing the superstars of the EPL in Glasgow twice a year than watching what would be second rate scottish football

[Wakeyhibee]

What’s the value, really?

How many Old Firm fans are there that aren’t already Sky customers that would sign up to watch them in England? Let’s be super generous and say 50,000, £100 a month each, £60 million a year. The TV contract is measured in billions, the relegated team gets twice that in payments.

They really aren’t worth all that much in the big scheme of things, and bring significant drawbacks; bigotry, travel costs, over just hoping some of the big sides in the Championship down eventually make it to the top.

Think Sky and the rest would be more interested in the advertising than subscriptions.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Atlantic League anyone? Was there mot some sort of chat about 5 teams from Scotland being invited or involved in discussions investigating a cross border competition for clubs around the North Sea a few months ago?

[ScottB]

Think Sky and the rest would be more interested in the advertising than subscriptions.

But again, it’s how many extra eyeballs that weren’t already paying attention that would be the marker. Given coverage of the English matches is already pretty extensively watched up here, I don’t see where some massive boost would come from.