Billy Bremner (some Hibs content)

[G B Young]

I watched The Damned United film about Brian Clough's ill-fated tenure at Leeds United on BBCiplayer the other night. I read the book quite a number of years back, which I remember enjoying, but the film seems to be a bit more lightweight.

Billy Bremner is generally portrayed as an arrogant, scheming thug which apparently drew criticism from his former team-mates at Leeds, where he will clearly always be a legend. Anyone got any memories of him? I read that early in his career at Leeds he was homesick and Hibs had a bid of £25,000 turned down for him.

Former Jambo Dave Mackay is also protrayed as a backstabber for taking the Derby job while Clough and the rest of the squad are having a party at Clough's house (though to his credit he did apparently turn down the Hearts manager's job to sign for Clough) :greengrin

[stantonhibby]

I watched The Damned United film about Brian Clough's ill-fated tenure at Leeds United on BBCiplayer the other night. I read the book quite a number of years back, which I remember enjoying, but the film seems to be a bit more lightweight.

Billy Bremner is generally portrayed as an arrogant, scheming thug which apparently drew criticism from his former team-mates at Leeds, where he will clearly always be a legend. Anyone got any memories of him? I read that early in his career at Leeds he was homesick and Hibs had a bid of £25,000 turned down for him.

Former Jambo Dave Mackay is also protrayed as a backstabber for taking the Derby job while Clough and the rest of the squad are having a party at Clough's house (though to his credit he did apparently turn down the Hearts manager's job to sign for Clough) :greengrin


I really enjoyed that film particularly Michael Sheen as Clough. However there were loads of inaccuracies and Dave Mackay sued and won over his portrayal. He had already left Derby by the time Clough was sacked!

[Sammy7nil]

Enjoyed the movie it is a good watch.

I watched the BT sport movie the Crazy Gang in the early days they made Leeds 70's team look like school boys.

Fashanu comes across particularly badly as a bully and a thug.

[Hibs1969]

I read Bremner’s biography on holiday a few years ago. It was strangely written by a journalist from Yorkshire but informative and enjoyable. He was very homesick in his early days at Leeds and Hibs did indeed make an offer to buy him for about £25,000. From memory, the clubs agreed the fee and the deal was set to go through, but at the last minute Leeds upped the asking price to £30,000 at which point Hibs backed out of the deal and told them to bolt. Bremner stayed at Leeds and went on to become arguably their greatest ever player.

[ancient hibee]

I read Bremner’s biography on holiday a few years ago. It was strangely written by a journalist from Yorkshire but informative and enjoyable. He was very homesick in his early days at Leeds and Hibs did indeed make an offer to buy him for about £25,000. From memory, the clubs agreed the fee and the deal was set to go through, but at the last minute Leeds upped the asking price to £30,000 at which point Hibs backed out of the deal and told them to bolt. Bremner stayed at Leeds and went on to become arguably their greatest ever player.

As he spent most of his life in Yorkshire seems pretty logical :greengrin

[hibeerealist]

I watched The Damned United film about Brian Clough's ill-fated tenure at Leeds United on BBCiplayer the other night. I read the book quite a number of years back, which I remember enjoying, but the film seems to be a bit more lightweight.

Billy Bremner is generally portrayed as an arrogant, scheming thug which apparently drew criticism from his former team-mates at Leeds, where he will clearly always be a legend. Anyone got any memories of him? I read that early in his career at Leeds he was homesick and Hibs had a bid of £25,000 turned down for him.

Former Jambo Dave Mackay is also protrayed as a backstabber for taking the Derby job while Clough and the rest of the squad are having a party at Clough's house (though to his credit he did apparently turn down the Hearts manager's job to sign for Clough) :greengrin

Superb player and almost single handedly kept Hibs at bay in the second leg of UEFA cup at ER, from memory the tie went to pens and we lost, Hibs all over them and they were the cream of English football in those days.

[JimBHibees]

Enjoyed the movie it is a good watch.

I watched the BT sport movie the Crazy Gang in the early days they made Leeds 70's team look like school boys.

Fashanu comes across particularly badly as a bully and a thug.

There was a very strange, violent and frankly quite disturbing undercurrent to that team imo. Some real horrible characters.

[JimBHibees]

Saw a documentary of Dave McKay and he came over very well seemed a very genuine person imo. Can remember he used to pick up the son of his tragically deceased former team mate John White when the teams he managed played in London.

[SJNB Hibby]

There was a very strange, violent and frankly quite disturbing undercurrent to that team imo. Some real horrible characters.

Growing up in England 67-74, I dont remember them being as hated as the Arse. Leeds were a team full of characters, except that thug Hunter----I was at Selhurst Park the day he nearly ruined John Cravens career with a tackle straight out of WWE.
But I enjoyed the Gray's, Lorimer, Bremner, Clarke

[JimBHibees]

Growing up in England 67-74, I dont remember them being as hated as the Arse. Leeds were a team full of characters, except that thug Hunter----I was at Selhurst Park the day he nearly ruined John Cravens career with a tackle straight out of WWE.
But I enjoyed the Gray's, Lorimer, Bremner, Clarke

It was the Crazy Gang of Wimbledon I was talking about as I had seen the bt sport documentary on them which was referenced in the quote I was responding to.

Leeds had a hard edge as pretty much every team had in those days but they were a brilliant football team.

[G B Young]

There's a sign of the times in the movie when Clough is laying out the kits in the dressing room pre-match. At each player's spot he places an orange...and an ashtray.

[superfurryhibby]

I read the book a few years ago and really enjoyed it.

With hindsight, Clough should have asked himself why he took the job. Walking into a dressing room containing the likes of Bremner, Giles, Lorimer, Hunter, Jones, Reaney and Clark etc and telling them they were a bunch of cheats etc, was never going to get them onside was it?

Watching a lot of old time football on Tv recently. Bremner was clearly a force on and off the field at Leeds. I'm sure he was a right dirty wee bassa, but he could play too.

The interview with Clough and Revie on that Yorkshire Tv show after the sacking. Well worth watching.

[Ray_]

I read the book a few years ago and really enjoyed it.

With hindsight, Clough should have asked himself why he took the job. Walking into a dressing room containing the likes of Bremner, Giles, Lorimer, Hunter, Jones, Reaney and Clark etc and telling them they were a bunch of cheats etc, was never going to get them onside was it?

Watching a lot of old time football on Tv recently. Bremner was clearly a force on and off the field at Leeds. I'm sure he was a right dirty wee bassa, but he could play too.

The interview with Clough and Revie on that Yorkshire Tv show after the sacking. Well worth watching.

Leeds went on to being defeated in the European cup final that season and failing to get into the top three and their next championship came close to a couple of decades later. Clough's unfashionable Forest went up in the play off position to league champions and twice European cup winners while Leeds trajectory was mediocrity. Leeds had a rep for being hatchetmen with Bremner, Giles & Hunter reckoned to be the worst. I think it is Leeds who missed out.

[brog]

Tommy Preston & Davie Mackay were best mates. Tommy used to tell great stories about Dave's time with Spurs & the money he made in the double year. Pennies compared to now but a fortune in those days. Of course there's also the famous pic Of Mackay holding Bremner up by his throat. If you wanted to upset BB you only had to mention that pic.

[Lago]

Lived down South at the time & loved Leeds, also the Arsenal team of that period, nostalgia can be distorting but I look back at the football I watched then & it was great. A full contact sport unlike now 😁

[Wakeyhibee]

Growing up in England 67-74, I dont remember them being as hated as the Arse. Leeds were a team full of characters, except that thug Hunter----I was at Selhurst Park the day he nearly ruined John Cravens career with a tackle straight out of WWE.
But I enjoyed the Gray's, Lorimer, Bremner, Clarke

Grew up in Lancashire and Leeds were hated mainly due to Yorkshire, Lancs rivalry, I dont remember nationally as they were past their best by the late 70s

I got to meet Hunter, Clarke, Lorimer, Reaney and the 50s legend John Chsrles pre match speakers. Hunter came across as a gentleman, quiet, totally at odds to his image. Reaney was a comedian and Clarke whilst amiable was a little arrogant especially when I quizzed him on the 70s UEFA cup game.

[G B Young]

I really enjoyed that film particularly Michael Sheen as Clough. However there were loads of inaccuracies and Dave Mackay sued and won over his portrayal. He had already left Derby by the time Clough was sacked!

I never knew Mackay led Derby to the league title as boss. For some reason I'd always thought the title they won under Clough was the only time they were champions of England. Apart from Leicester's extraordinary title win, the game is so different now to the days when clubs like Derby and Nottingham Forest could become the best in the country. Forest's successive European Cup wins were extraordinary feats in hindsight.

[G B Young]

Lived down South at the time & loved Leeds, also the Arsenal team of that period, nostalgia can be distorting but I look back at the football I watched then & it was great. A full contact sport unlike now 😁

Both those clubs had brilliant, iconic kits during that era. The 60s and early 70s was surely the greatest era for football kits. I remember when I started collecting football cards a bit later in the 70s Leeds had moved from the all-white kit to a pretty hideous Admiral version with a horrible trim. The great Tornadoes Hibs kit took a nosedive around then too with the introduction of a collar and Bukta trim on the sleeves.

[Tom Hart RIP]

I never knew Mackay led Derby to the league title as boss. For some reason I'd always thought the title they won under Clough was the only time they were champions of England. Apart from Leicester's extraordinary title win, the game is so different now to the days when clubs like Derby and Nottingham Forest could become the best in the country. Forest's successive European Cup wins were extraordinary feats in hindsight.

Clough's Derby won the league by one point. They finished the season and needed Liverpool not to beat Arsenal and Leeds not to beat Wolves. Liverpool drew and Leeds lost. Since then there has been many allegations about that match as Revie and Bremner were suspected of offering bribes to certain Wolves players. It was never proved.

Four years later Dave Mackay managed Derby to the title which they won by 7 points when it was 2 points for a win.

Cough went to Leeds then Brighton for a brief spell then Nottingham Forest. Neil Martin (ex Hibs) scored the first goal in Clough's NF tenure.

Neil also played in Clough's testimonial for Sunderland. Such was his popularity at Roker Park, Clough promised him money to play as that would increase the crowd. Neil played but Cloughie never paid him the money.

[SideBurns]

Clough's Derby won the league by one point. They finished the season and needed Liverpool not to beat Arsenal and Leeds not to beat Wolves. Liverpool drew and Leeds lost. Since then there has been many allegations about that match as Revie and Bremner were suspected of offering bribes to certain Wolves players. It was never proved.

Four years later Dave Mackay managed Derby to the title which they won by 7 points when it was 2 points for a win.

Cough went to Leeds then Brighton for a brief spell then Nottingham Forest. Neil Martin (ex Hibs) scored the first goal in Clough's NF tenure.

Neil also played in Clough's testimonial for Sunderland. Such was his popularity at Roker Park, Clough promised him money to play as that would increase the crowd. Neil played but Cloughie never paid him the money.

Did Derby not play Hibs to celebrate our centenary, in the season after being crowned English champions?

[DaveSo]

Did Derby not play Hibs to celebrate our centenary, in the season after being crowned English champions?

Yes they did.
It was my first ever Hibs game as a young boy.
Played on a sunny midweek evening the English league champions of Derby County were a fitting opposition for our Centenary Match.
We lost 1-0 but that's all I remember about the game itself.
My dad who of course took me, tells me it was a crap game !

[IberianHibernian]

Been reading about Leeds United in Spain today with interviews with their Director of Football Victor Orta who worked at Sevilla for many years . Didn`t realise it was Leeds`centenary ( thought they`d be much older ) . Orta certainly seems to think he`s at a special club given they are only club in a one - club big city with big history in English game . Bremner`s name mentioned several times in articles .
I remember Bremner at ER when we lost on penalties . He was brilliant that night on what was a sad night in many ways - firstly because we lost but also because we were knocked out by a near - reserve team - Bremner and maybe a couple of regulars more plus 7 or 8 reserves . Rotation 30 years ahead of its time ?

[G B Young]

Did Derby not play Hibs to celebrate our centenary, in the season after being crowned English champions?

That stirs a memory of reading somewhere that we paraded the recently-won Drybrough Cup around the ground before kick-off on the groundsman's tractor/lawnmower?!

[InchHibby]

Superb player and almost single handedly kept Hibs at bay in the second leg of UEFA cup at ER, from memory the tie went to pens and we lost, Hibs all over them and they were the cream of English football in those days.

I was at the game and Hibs were all over them, how we didn’t beat them, but it is also true to say, Bremner was outstanding for them and if not for him then the result would have been so different.

[Greenbeard]

Lived down South at the time & loved Leeds, also the Arsenal team of that period, nostalgia can be distorting but I look back at the football I watched then & it was great. A full contact sport unlike now ��
That's what has struck me most looking at all these old highlights that have been shown or referenced in recent weeks. Also the fact that the victims of crunching tackles usually just got up and got on with it, if they could, or limped a bit and ran it off, not roll over sixteen times, howl like a bairn, stop the game for a couple of minutes, then get up fresh as a daisy and resume playing like nothing happened.
So a question? When did diving and cheating take off in British football, why, and who were the main culprits of it escalating to the stage where players are "entitled to go down" 'cos there was contact, even the slightest brush of a hand on a back?
One I recall who got away with some crackers was Tommy Hutchison (Coventry/Scotland early 70s). He developed the technique of a mid-air 360 spin on contact which usually duped the ref.

[brog]

Been reading about Leeds United in Spain today with interviews with their Director of Football Victor Orta who worked at Sevilla for many years . Didn`t realise it was Leeds`centenary ( thought they`d be much older ) . Orta certainly seems to think he`s at a special club given they are only club in a one - club big city with big history in English game . Bremner`s name mentioned several times in articles .
I remember Bremner at ER when we lost on penalties . He was brilliant that night on what was a sad night in many ways - firstly because we lost but also because we were knocked out by a near - reserve team - Bremner and maybe a couple of regulars more plus 7 or 8 reserves . Rotation 30 years ahead of its time ?



This is a myth that Leeds spread about to demonstrate that the league was their top priority. As you can see from below it was far from being a reserve team. About 4 or 5 may not have been 1st choices but the only non internationalists were the 2 keepers, both of whom played the game of their lives, Roy Ellam & Mick Bates & the latter played nearly 200 games for Leeds.

Shaw (Letheran); Reaney, Cherry; Bremner, Ellam, Yorath; Lorimer, Clarke, Jordan, Bates, F. Gray.

One thing is certain, Bremner was outstanding.

[basehibby]

Leeds went on to being defeated in the European cup final that season and failing to get into the top three and their next championship came close to a couple of decades later. Clough's unfashionable Forest went up in the play off position to league champions and twice European cup winners while Leeds trajectory was mediocrity. Leeds had a rep for being hatchetmen with Bremner, Giles & Hunter reckoned to be the worst. I think it is Leeds who missed out.

They didn't have play offs in those days :cb

[BILLYHIBS]

Remember reading some weird conspiracy theory that Leeds wanted out of the UEFA Cup and wanted to concentrate on the English League so the players had a whip round prematch and put money on HIBS at 3/1 they forgot to tell John Shaw and Glan Letheren about their cunning plan who were both outstanding on the night Source of this little nugget was Peter Lorimer IIRC

[Tomsk]

This is a myth that Leeds spread about to demonstrate that the league was their top priority. As you can see from below it was far from being a reserve team. About 4 or 5 may not have been 1st choices but the only non internationalists were the 2 keepers, both of whom played the game of their lives, Roy Ellam & Mick Bates & the latter played nearly 200 games for Leeds.

Shaw (Letheran); Reaney, Cherry; Bremner, Ellam, Yorath; Lorimer, Clarke, Jordan, Bates, F. Gray.

One thing is certain, Bremner was outstanding.

And it's only because Harvey was injured that the keeper was drafted in. Of the starting XI only the keeper, Bates and Ellam either were or would shortly become full-internationalists for their country.

And as for Peter Lorimer, he wouldn't got a game for Hibs in those days. Overrated tosser.

[Lago]

That's what has struck me most looking at all these old highlights that have been shown or referenced in recent weeks. Also the fact that the victims of crunching tackles usually just got up and got on with it, if they could, or limped a bit and ran it off, not roll over sixteen times, howl like a bairn, stop the game for a couple of minutes, then get up fresh as a daisy and resume playing like nothing happened.
So a question? When did diving and cheating take off in British football, why, and who were the main culprits of it escalating to the stage where players are "entitled to go down" 'cos there was contact, even the slightest brush of a hand on a back?
One I recall who got away with some crackers was Tommy Hutchison (Coventry/Scotland early 70s). He developed the technique of a mid-air 360 spin on contact which usually duped the ref.
Your right it was give & take, you didn’t even have the physio running on every time someone went down. I seem to remember that when Spurs recruited the 2 Argentine World Cup players, they introduce great skill, but also creative falling 😉 as more and more foreign players came along and with the rule changes reducing certain tackling, the game changed. I loved that football era.

[Since452]

I really enjoyed that film particularly Michael Sheen as Clough. However there were loads of inaccuracies and Dave Mackay sued and won over his portrayal. He had already left Derby by the time Clough was sacked!

Michael Sheen is a seriously talented actor