Council tax

[Sudds_1]

Just occurred to me. If we are to get a reduction in service due to the coronavirus pandemic....are we due a rebate for services not delivered?

[Bishop Hibee]

All council staff are still being paid a full salary. I’m working from home. The council will need as much money as it can get when we come out the other end of this.

[Killiehibbie]

All council staff are still being paid a full salary. I’m working from home. The council will need as much money as it can get when we come out the other end of this.

Can they not redeploy some of the staff now not working to keep rubbish collections going? We are now getting a collection once every 3 weeks

[Mr Grieves]

Can they not redeploy some of the staff now not working to keep rubbish collections going? We are now getting a collection once every 3 weeks

Council staff that can work from home are. Those that are key workers are still expected to attend work - teachers, crematorium staff, mortuary staff, social workers, environmental health, care workers etc-it's more than just bin collections that are essential. Those that aren't covered in these two groups will be redeployed to essential services, but it takes a bit of time because you're talking about thousands of people, training will be required and the councils are having to deal with staff absence due to self isolation.

[Betty Boop]

Council staff that can work from home are. Those that are key workers are still expected to attend work - teachers, crematorium staff, mortuary staff, social workers, environmental health, care workers etc-it's more than just bin collections that are essential. Those that aren't covered in these two groups will be redeployed to essential services, but it takes a bit of time because you're talking about thousands of people, training will be required and the councils are having to deal with staff absence due to self isolation.

Don't forget Security staff and a number of cleaning staff are also working .

[Mr Grieves]

Don't forget Security staff and a number of cleaning staff are also working .

:agree::aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

Just occurred to me. If we are to get a reduction in service due to the coronavirus pandemic....are we due a rebate for services not delivered?

Can you list all council services that you are no longer receiving to justify your request for a reduction?

[danhibees1875]

Can you list all council services that you are no longer receiving to justify your request for a reduction?

They're not taking my glass recycling bin. :grr:

[cabbageandribs1875]

just hope the councils don't start charging for their TV stations

[Scouse Hibee]

Just occurred to me. If we are to get a reduction in service due to the coronavirus pandemic....are we due a rebate for services not delivered?


You could say the same about Hibs and ST holders :greengrin

[speedy_gonzales]

Can you list all council services that you are no longer receiving to justify your request for a reduction?

"Justify" is perhaps a strong phrase to use at such a sensitive time. There's lots of council services that have ceased over the last week or so, from recycling to maintenance of housing stock (and that does include essential, I have a close relative living in damp conditions and the repair works have ground to a halt). Museums, schools, libraries and community based adult learning are closed, council support services have seen restrictions. Staff from other departments such as finance/revenue protection have been taken out of their roles so they can work through the ever growing caseload of calls being reported online and on the phone.
This is a situation that was not created by us so we all need to pull together, people frowning against a legitimate question as to whether we're entitled to a rebate for services not rendered.
However, when it comes to folk cancelling gym subscriptions, Sky sports, bus/train passes,,,, nobody bats an eyelid.

Confusing times.

[Scouse Hibee]

"Justify" is perhaps a strong phrase to use at such a sensitive time. There's lots of council services that have ceased over the last week or so, from recycling to maintenance of housing stock (and that does include essential, I have a close relative living in damp conditions and the repair works have ground to a halt). Museums, schools, libraries and community based adult learning are closed, council support services have seen restrictions. Staff from other departments such as finance/revenue protection have been taken out of their roles so they can work through the ever growing caseload of calls being reported online and on the phone.
This is a situation that was not created by us so we all need to pull together, people frowning against a legitimate question as to whether we're entitled to a rebate for services not rendered.
However, when it comes to folk cancelling gym subscriptions, Sky sports, bus/train passes,,,, nobody bats an eyelid.

Confusing times.

You forgot to mention Hibs season tickets.

[speedy_gonzales]

You forgot to mention Hibs season tickets.

Oh aye, Hibs ST's.

(Call me a pedant, but I have attempted to pause my Sky Sports but I wouldn't be looking for any kind of refund from Hibs should the season end today. Another word for me could be fickle!)

[Killiehibbie]

Can you list all council services that you are no longer receiving to justify your request for a reduction?

A regular rubbish collection or even an open dump to take it to.

[Scouse Hibee]

A regular rubbish collection or even an open dump to take it to.


:confused: Our rubbish collection has been as planned so far, garden waste was collected today, the only amendment so far has been to our glass collection.

[Killiehibbie]

:confused: Our rubbish collection has been as planned so far, garden waste was collected today, the only amendment so far has been to our glass collection.

Recycling collections cancelled as of last week, that was food,glass, cans and paper every Friday. Now it's all to go in one bin or your brown bin too if you can't fit 3 weeks worth in one bin. Dumps closed.

[Scouse Hibee]

Recycling collections cancelled as of last week, that was food,glass, cans and paper every Friday. Now it's all to go in one bin or your brown bin too if you can't fit 3 weeks worth in one bin. Dumps closed.


Delays to rubbish and recycling collections

Wednesday 1 April 2020 at 5:00 pm

From 24 March, all three recycling centres are now closed. If you have large items please keep them at home until our recycling centres reopen and only use communal and wheelie bins for your day to day waste and recycling.
From 23 March, all kerbside blue box (glass) collections are suspended due to staff shortages. Please read more about what to do (https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/coronavirus-4/bin-collections-recycling-centres/6?documentId=12920&categoryId=20297) with your glass here.
There are currently delays to the following kerbside collections:


Green recyclable bin - Leith, Fort and Newhaven


As I said only our Blue glass box has stopped, everything else is being collected for us at the moment.

[Billy Whizz]

:confused: Our rubbish collection has been as planned so far, garden waste was collected today, the only amendment so far has been to our glass collection.

The garden waste collection should be free, surely they don’t want people going out to dumps, to get rid of their grass

[Killiehibbie]

I can see some councils cutting services right back then not restoring them due to whatever excuse they can get away with.

[Moulin Yarns]

"Justify" is perhaps a strong phrase to use at such a sensitive time. There's lots of council services that have ceased over the last week or so, from recycling to maintenance of housing stock (and that does include essential, I have a close relative living in damp conditions and the repair works have ground to a halt). Museums, schools, libraries and community based adult learning are closed, council support services have seen restrictions. Staff from other departments such as finance/revenue protection have been taken out of their roles so they can work through the ever growing caseload of calls being reported online and on the phone.
This is a situation that was not created by us so we all need to pull together, people frowning against a legitimate question as to whether we're entitled to a rebate for services not rendered.
However, when it comes to folk cancelling gym subscriptions, Sky sports, bus/train passes,,,, nobody bats an eyelid.

Confusing times.

I noticed that the OP hasn't been able to explain what services they are no longer receiving that they think they are due a rebate for, as opposed to a list of services from one council.

I don't use schools but I don't expect the council to refund me that proportion of tax.

[Smartie]

I noticed that the OP hasn't been able to explain what services they are no longer receiving that they think they are due a rebate for, as opposed to a list of services from one council.

I don't use schools but I don't expect the council to refund me that proportion of tax.

As far as I can see we're not getting glass picked up but that's about it.

[Just_Jimmy]

I noticed that the OP hasn't been able to explain what services they are no longer receiving that they think they are due a rebate for, as opposed to a list of services from one council.

I don't use schools but I don't expect the council to refund me that proportion of tax.In England council tax goes up every year and services delivery goes down at every chance. I can't speak for Scotland though.

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[Mibbes Aye]

In England council tax goes up every year and services delivery goes down at every chance. I can't speak for Scotland though.

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It maybe hasn’t been consistent in recent years but there has been a gradual rise in pay for council staff, though that has only been recently.

Add to that, that the two big costs for councils are education and social care. In the last few years there was a funding settlement for local authorities to pay the living wage to care workers. The majority of care workers in Scotland don’t work for councils but are funded by them. In some local authorities, they have gone down the route of bringing provision back in-house, reversing years of trend where it was outsourced. Either way it means a cost increase - the cost of increasing the hourly rate to external providers to meet the living wage and/or the cost increase from paying council staff a little bit more, which isn’t just about salary but is about the on-costs -additional employer NI contributions, additional employer pension contributions (and in fairness, they apply to external providers too).

At the same time this is matched to increasing demand for social care due to demographic pressures. Something like the current situation creates an almost perfect storm. Scotland and the other U.K. nations struggle to deal with delayed discharge- when people are medically fit to leave hospital but the social care or housing they will require isn’t available, for whatever reason. There is now a massive pressure to free up beds in acute hospitals to cope with the pandemic, meaning people will be discharged in a manner which wouldn’t have been countenanced pre-corona virus. Those people will need social care, putting an additional burden on local authority-funded social care services. Because these services are barely coping as it, many of these people will end up being readmitted to hospital, where they become at a higher risk of acquiring hospital-based infections, regardless of corona virus.

We get what we pay for. In Scotland, education and social care have been shielded to an extent because of their statutory nature. But in schools, we have seen classroom assistant posts slashed, things like music tuition slashed. In social care, we have seen hourly rates for staff pressed hard, notwithstanding the living wage. Meaning that many people will weigh up their options and think working in a supermarket or doing a gig job is a better option.

And then, because education and social care are somewhat protected, and local authority budgets have gone down, the axe falls disproportionately on everything else. I have a car, my partner has a car, I can’t remember the last time I used a bus. But there are people in my town who do need to use the bus, to get to a hospital appointment, to visit family. And Council-subsidised bus transport goes out the window in the current climate.

Paving repairs, streetlight repairs, go out the window too. It doesn’t affect me too much because I am in my car, but it affects those in my community who need to use pavements because they can’t afford to drive and feel safer because the pavements and streetlights are in good repair.

It affects the additional funding that councils give the police for community policing. I am not frail, elderly or vulnerable. I don’t feel I rely on the police in that regard. But while I am not frail, elderly or vulnerable I know enough people, family or otherwise who are, and the service they get, from police, but subsidised by local authorities is diminished. Not through any fault of the police I hasten to add.

Those bothered enough to be familiar with my posting history will know enough about my rants about the council tax freeze. We no longer have it.

For me, and for the benefit of everyone, we need to square the circle. Paying more tax isn’t in the self-interest of anyone, when you take an individualistic or selfish approach.

But to rectify the fundamental problems our society faces, we need to invest resources. We can borrow to do that now, but ultimately we will have to pay for it at some point.

As long as councils have the obligation for education and more importantly social care, then their running costs will have to rise, unless we are to diminish services even further. If that means council tax rises, then so be it.

[Sudds_1]

Can you list all council services that you are no longer receiving to justify your request for a reduction?

Libraries, waste disposal outletss, brown bins, recycling ...
.

[Sudds_1]

I noticed that the OP hasn't been able to explain what services they are no longer receiving that they think they are due a rebate for, as opposed to a list of services from one council.

I don't use schools but I don't expect the council to refund me that proportion of tax.

Just did. I could add to that the reduction in service levels. Also, factor in the substantial revenue increases from new builds across the region....thousands of new homes with associated tax revenue. True this adds to service requirements but the revenue accrued outweighs the demand i think.

[Just_Jimmy]

It maybe hasn’t been consistent in recent years but there has been a gradual rise in pay for council staff, though that has only been recently.

Add to that, that the two big costs for councils are education and social care. In the last few years there was a funding settlement for local authorities to pay the living wage to care workers. The majority of care workers in Scotland don’t work for councils but are funded by them. In some local authorities, they have gone down the route of bringing provision back in-house, reversing years of trend where it was outsourced. Either way it means a cost increase - the cost of increasing the hourly rate to external providers to meet the living wage and/or the cost increase from paying council staff a little bit more, which isn’t just about salary but is about the on-costs -additional employer NI contributions, additional employer pension contributions (and in fairness, they apply to external providers too).

At the same time this is matched to increasing demand for social care due to demographic pressures. Something like the current situation creates an almost perfect storm. Scotland and the other U.K. nations struggle to deal with delayed discharge- when people are medically fit to leave hospital but the social care or housing they will require isn’t available, for whatever reason. There is now a massive pressure to free up beds in acute hospitals to cope with the pandemic, meaning people will be discharged in a manner which wouldn’t have been countenanced pre-corona virus. Those people will need social care, putting an additional burden on local authority-funded social care services. Because these services are barely coping as it, many of these people will end up being readmitted to hospital, where they become at a higher risk of acquiring hospital-based infections, regardless of corona virus.

We get what we pay for. In Scotland, education and social care have been shielded to an extent because of their statutory nature. But in schools, we have seen classroom assistant posts slashed, things like music tuition slashed. In social care, we have seen hourly rates for staff pressed hard, notwithstanding the living wage. Meaning that many people will weigh up their options and think working in a supermarket or doing a gig job is a better option.

And then, because education and social care are somewhat protected, and local authority budgets have gone down, the axe falls disproportionately on everything else. I have a car, my partner has a car, I can’t remember the last time I used a bus. But there are people in my town who do need to use the bus, to get to a hospital appointment, to visit family. And Council-subsidised bus transport goes out the window in the current climate.

Paving repairs, streetlight repairs, go out the window too. It doesn’t affect me too much because I am in my car, but it affects those in my community who need to use pavements because they can’t afford to drive and feel safer because the pavements and streetlights are in good repair.

It affects the additional funding that councils give the police for community policing. I am not frail, elderly or vulnerable. I don’t feel I rely on the police in that regard. But while I am not frail, elderly or vulnerable I know enough people, family or otherwise who are, and the service they get, from police, but subsidised by local authorities is diminished. Not through any fault of the police I hasten to add.

Those bothered enough to be familiar with my posting history will know enough about my rants about the council tax freeze. We no longer have it.

For me, and for the benefit of everyone, we need to square the circle. Paying more tax isn’t in the self-interest of anyone, when you take an individualistic or selfish approach.

But to rectify the fundamental problems our society faces, we need to invest resources. We can borrow to do that now, but ultimately we will have to pay for it at some point.

As long as councils have the obligation for education and more importantly social care, then their running costs will have to rise, unless we are to diminish services even further. If that means council tax rises, then so be it.A very good post. Believe me I am well aware of the lack of proper funding for public services of all kind.

As a side note, I realise you have focused on Scotland, however in England they raise funding for police and fire via a mayoral charge on the council tax. This is itemised and although part of the bill, is adjusted yearly.

Additionally water is a seperate service no included as it is in Scotland.

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[H18 SFR]

Libraries, waste disposal outletss, brown bins, recycling ...
.

If you are expecting the councils to give rebates for that then it is only fair that pensioners hand back some of their state pension as they can’t spend it just now.

[lapsedhibee]

If you are expecting the councils to give rebates for that then it is only fair that pensioners hand back some of their state pension as they can’t spend it just now.
Because pensioners can't use the internet.

[Sudds_1]

If you are expecting the councils to give rebates for that then it is only fair that pensioners hand back some of their state pension as they can’t spend it just now.

Hmm...heard of online shopping no?

[H18 SFR]

Hmm...heard of online shopping no?

Heard of storing your recycling materials in your garden/outside/any other appropriate place until this is over?

To save worrying about visiting the library have you heard of buying books online?

[Sudds_1]

Heard of storing your recycling materials in your garden/outside/any other appropriate place until this is over?

To save worrying about visiting the library have you heard of buying books online?

Yep...all of the above. But not heard of online waste disposal , or storage when the garden is full of rubbish.

[H18 SFR]

Yep...all of the above. But not heard of online waste disposal , or storage when the garden is full of rubbish.

Full? You expecting this to go on for decades?

[Hibby Bairn]

It maybe hasn’t been consistent in recent years but there has been a gradual rise in pay for council staff, though that has only been recently.

Add to that, that the two big costs for councils are education and social care. In the last few years there was a funding settlement for local authorities to pay the living wage to care workers. The majority of care workers in Scotland don’t work for councils but are funded by them. In some local authorities, they have gone down the route of bringing provision back in-house, reversing years of trend where it was outsourced. Either way it means a cost increase - the cost of increasing the hourly rate to external providers to meet the living wage and/or the cost increase from paying council staff a little bit more, which isn’t just about salary but is about the on-costs -additional employer NI contributions, additional employer pension contributions (and in fairness, they apply to external providers too).

At the same time this is matched to increasing demand for social care due to demographic pressures. Something like the current situation creates an almost perfect storm. Scotland and the other U.K. nations struggle to deal with delayed discharge- when people are medically fit to leave hospital but the social care or housing they will require isn’t available, for whatever reason. There is now a massive pressure to free up beds in acute hospitals to cope with the pandemic, meaning people will be discharged in a manner which wouldn’t have been countenanced pre-corona virus. Those people will need social care, putting an additional burden on local authority-funded social care services. Because these services are barely coping as it, many of these people will end up being readmitted to hospital, where they become at a higher risk of acquiring hospital-based infections, regardless of corona virus.

We get what we pay for. In Scotland, education and social care have been shielded to an extent because of their statutory nature. But in schools, we have seen classroom assistant posts slashed, things like music tuition slashed. In social care, we have seen hourly rates for staff pressed hard, notwithstanding the living wage. Meaning that many people will weigh up their options and think working in a supermarket or doing a gig job is a better option.

And then, because education and social care are somewhat protected, and local authority budgets have gone down, the axe falls disproportionately on everything else. I have a car, my partner has a car, I can’t remember the last time I used a bus. But there are people in my town who do need to use the bus, to get to a hospital appointment, to visit family. And Council-subsidised bus transport goes out the window in the current climate.

Paving repairs, streetlight repairs, go out the window too. It doesn’t affect me too much because I am in my car, but it affects those in my community who need to use pavements because they can’t afford to drive and feel safer because the pavements and streetlights are in good repair.

It affects the additional funding that councils give the police for community policing. I am not frail, elderly or vulnerable. I don’t feel I rely on the police in that regard. But while I am not frail, elderly or vulnerable I know enough people, family or otherwise who are, and the service they get, from police, but subsidised by local authorities is diminished. Not through any fault of the police I hasten to add.

Those bothered enough to be familiar with my posting history will know enough about my rants about the council tax freeze. We no longer have it.

For me, and for the benefit of everyone, we need to square the circle. Paying more tax isn’t in the self-interest of anyone, when you take an individualistic or selfish approach.

But to rectify the fundamental problems our society faces, we need to invest resources. We can borrow to do that now, but ultimately we will have to pay for it at some point.

As long as councils have the obligation for education and more importantly social care, then their running costs will have to rise, unless we are to diminish services even further. If that means council tax rises, then so be it.

Excellent post.

Think of it like a football club. The more we pay in then the better our club will be in the longer term (in most cases!).

Better facilities, better players, better stadium etc.

If we choose not to pay in or want to pay less in then the reverse is true.

I hope the day will come soon when we can have an honest political discussion about all this rather than short term vote winning policies. The current situation (even before Covid) was not sustainable.

We all have to pay more tax. Otherwise our “club” will rapidly diminish.

[Just_Jimmy]

Heard of storing your recycling materials in your garden/outside/any other appropriate place until this is over?

To save worrying about visiting the library have you heard of buying books online?Would you go to a restaurant and serve yourself and cook your own food?

The services could have been adjusted but still delivered. To expect people to sit on weeks or months of waste is ridiculous and a hygiene issue. People don't all have an appropriate place or outside space to store items.

This is causing issues for everyone but taking your attitude to it helps no one.

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[Moulin Yarns]

Libraries, waste disposal outletss, brown bins, recycling ...
.

Labrary facilities are available online to get eBooks for example

Waste recycling facilities are closed but certainly in my are bin collections are continuing, not all councils are the same though. The supermarket recycling facilities are still available so glass, paper, clothes and tins can be deposited when doing shopping.

Brown bins? different councils use different colours for different purposes, my brown lidded in is garden waste, that's going out tomorrow for me.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yep...all of the above. But not heard of online waste disposal , or storage when the garden is full of rubbish.

If your garden is full of rubbish you might want to spend your time better :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

Would you go to a restaurant and serve yourself and cook your own food?

The services could have been adjusted but still delivered. To expect people to sit on weeks or months of waste is ridiculous and a hygiene issue. People don't all have an appropriate place or outside space to store items.

This is causing issues for everyone but taking your attitude to it helps no one.

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Services have been adjusted. Instead of the big bin lorry with 4 men my bin is emptied by one man in a pick-up.

Adjustments in my area.

https://www.pkc.gov.uk/coronavirus

[H18 SFR]

Would you go to a restaurant and serve yourself and cook your own food?

The services could have been adjusted but still delivered. To expect people to sit on weeks or months of waste is ridiculous and a hygiene issue. People don't all have an appropriate place or outside space to store items.

This is causing issues for everyone but taking your attitude to it helps no one.

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We’re not talking about restaurants are we. We are talking about storing recycling materials in a garden or any appropriate place. What exactly is your point caller?

[Scouse Hibee]

Libraries, waste disposal outletss, brown bins, recycling ...
.

Brown bins are being emptied

[bigwheel]

Brown bins are being emptied

There’s suggestions that council has determined that this week is the last garden bin collection for a few months ...

[Just_Jimmy]

We’re not talking about restaurants are we. We are talking about storing recycling materials in a garden or any appropriate place. What exactly is your point caller?No we're talking about public paying for services they are not receiving and alternative solutions.

If council tax is priced for the services you receive normally, then loss of a single one of them without a solution means you're no longer getting what you pay for. Whilst the situation is unprecedented, whilst money is very tight for many, it's not beyond reason that people will question why they are paying and not getting it.

Not everyone has a garden or space to store waste or items for weeks or months on end. Not everyone is able to deal with their own rubbish.

As I said to you originally, there's a necessity to find a solution that helps. Taking a high and mighty attitude to it won't help anyone and will end up pissing off the majority.

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[H18 SFR]

No we're talking about public paying for services they are not receiving and alternative solutions.

If council tax is priced for the services you receive normally, then loss of a single one of them without a solution means you're no longer getting what you pay for. Whilst the situation is unprecedented, whilst money is very tight for many, it's not beyond reason that people will question why they are paying and not getting it.

Not everyone has a garden or space to store waste or items for weeks or months on end. Not everyone is able to deal with their own rubbish.

As I said to you originally, there's a necessity to find a solution that helps. Taking a high and mighty attitude to it won't help anyone and will end up pissing off the majority.

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A restaurant is not a public service so how is it comparable?

[marinello59]

No we're talking about public paying for services they are not receiving and alternative solutions.

If council tax is priced for the services you receive normally, then loss of a single one of them without a solution means you're no longer getting what you pay for. Whilst the situation is unprecedented, whilst money is very tight for many, it's not beyond reason that people will question why they are paying and not getting it.

Not everyone has a garden or space to store waste or items for weeks or months on end. Not everyone is able to deal with their own rubbish.

As I said to you originally, there's a necessity to find a solution that helps. Taking a high and mighty attitude to it won't help anyone and will end up pissing off the majority.

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Austerity and the Council tax freeze has seen services getting cut in Scotland for over a decade now. Those cuts mainly affected the daily lives of the vulnerable and poor who depended on services provided by the council. Now it's time for us all to share a bit of the load for the common good. Cutting funding further right now would be totally counter-productive.

[Peevemor]

No we're talking about public paying for services they are not receiving and alternative solutions.

If council tax is priced for the services you receive normally, then loss of a single one of them without a solution means you're no longer getting what you pay for. Whilst the situation is unprecedented, whilst money is very tight for many, it's not beyond reason that people will question why they are paying and not getting it.

Not everyone has a garden or space to store waste or items for weeks or months on end. Not everyone is able to deal with their own rubbish.

As I said to you originally, there's a necessity to find a solution that helps. Taking a high and mighty attitude to it won't help anyone and will end up pissing off the majority.

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It's not the council's fault that certain services are currently suspended. You may well feel entitled to a rebate, but once things are up and running again would you be willing to pay more when they're working twice as hard to clear their backlogs?

[marinello59]

It's not the council's fault that certain services are currently suspended. You may well feel entitled to a rebate, but once things are up and running again would you be willing to pay more when they're working twice as hard to clear their backlogs?

Well said.

[heretoday]

It would be good if the binmen were encouraged to pick up a few of the growing piles of black bags appearing on our streets instead of just emptying the wheelie bins.

Could they be paid an enhanced rate? It's sad to see a stinking heap of waste repeatedly ignored by bin staff.

[Since90+2]

Not bothered about a rebate but in general my dealings with Edinburgh council have been difficult to say the least.

[IWasThere2016]

A regular rubbish collection or even an open dump to take it to.

Same here. Dumps closed. Council website still saying bins to be emptied and dates etc.. my bins for Tuesday are still sitting roadside...

I have tweeted Council - twice now - no reply.

I might cancel my DD - and see how soon it takes them to get in touch then :greengrin

[Sudds_1]

If your garden is full of rubbish you might want to spend your time better :wink:

I'd clear it....but the council have stopped waste services! 🤪🤪

[Moulin Yarns]

It would be good if the binmen were encouraged to pick up a few of the growing piles of black bags appearing on our streets instead of just emptying the wheelie bins.

Could they be paid an enhanced rate? It's sad to see a stinking heap of waste repeatedly ignored by bin staff.

Check the council website to see what they will pick up. In my area anything not in a wheelie bin will not be routinely lifted. Bin bags left on the street is fly tipping.

[Sudds_1]

Brown bins are being emptied

Not in east lothian. Check the website.mi e have been out for 2 days and no lidt as scheduled.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'd clear it....but the council have stopped waste services! 🤪🤪

I suspect you are in East Lothian, waste services in your area are slightly reduced.


https://www.eastlothian.gov.uk/info/210574/emergencies_safety_and_crime/12488/coronavirus/11

[Scouse Hibee]

Not in east lothian. Check the website.mi e have been out for 2 days and no lidt as scheduled.

Our was emptied this week but ECC just announced that will be last one, garden waste uplift suspended too. Makes sense as they can concentrate their stretches resources on waste that could become a health hazard if left.

[Moulin Yarns]

Do people think that they pay council tax for personal service?

No, council tax is paid by every household to allow councils to provide services to the whole community.

[H18 SFR]

Do people think that they pay council tax for personal service?

No, council tax is paid by every household to allow councils to provide services to the whole community.

You've got to remember that not everyone thinks logically, some are cognitively challenged shall we say.

One way or another, hopefully this is all over and done with sooner rather than later. I'd happily contribute to a crowdfund to give some of my fellow Hibees on here a rebate if it would contribute to their overall wellbeing and happiness.

[Mibbes Aye]

A very good post. Believe me I am well aware of the lack of proper funding for public services of all kind.

As a side note, I realise you have focused on Scotland, however in England they raise funding for police and fire via a mayoral charge on the council tax. This is itemised and although part of the bill, is adjusted yearly.

Additionally water is a seperate service no included as it is in Scotland.

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That’s interesting, thanks. I had a vague understanding of funding for local services in England but wasn’t sure about ‘blue light’ services.

[Mibbes Aye]

Excellent post.

Think of it like a football club. The more we pay in then the better our club will be in the longer term (in most cases!).

Better facilities, better players, better stadium etc.

If we choose not to pay in or want to pay less in then the reverse is true.

I hope the day will come soon when we can have an honest political discussion about all this rather than short term vote winning policies. The current situation (even before Covid) was not sustainable.

We all have to pay more tax. Otherwise our “club” will rapidly diminish.

The ‘honest discussion’ is the critical bit. There was a bit of a golden age for that in the 1970s when a number of Royal Commissions were set up to impartially examine the evidence around various societal ills. They seemed to go out of fashion, and decreased in number. I’m happy to believe that was in no small part due to the centralisation and consolidation of executive power under Thatcher and then New Labour.

[Sudds_1]

You've got to remember that not everyone thinks logically, some are cognitively challenged shall we say.

One way or another, hopefully this is all over and done with sooner rather than later. I'd happily contribute to a crowdfund to give some of my fellow Hibees on here a rebate if it would contribute to their overall wellbeing and happiness.

No need for snide insults. This is a forum for all points of view....unless you believe anyone who disagrees with youis incapable of reasoned thinking? Check the thread...a broad range of different, reasoned views.

[Sir David Gray]

I'm ignorant about the bin collections in other council areas so I'm not sure if these bin collections are done elsewhere or not, however Falkirk Council have suspended all bin collections except for the green bin and the food waste caddy, citing staff absence and social distancing restrictions as the reasons.

However as a compromise they have said that people are able to put out 2 additional bags of waste alongside their green bin, on their green bin collection day, which is once every 4 weeks.

[Moulin Yarns]

A very good post. Believe me I am well aware of the lack of proper funding for public services of all kind.

As a side note, I realise you have focused on Scotland, however in England they raise funding for police and fire via a mayoral charge on the council tax. This is itemised and although part of the bill, is adjusted yearly.

Additionally water is a seperate service no included as it is in Scotland.

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Water is also itemised separately in Scotland, the difference is its added to the council tax for collection purposes. I do not pay for water or sewage services because I live in the country and have a private water supply and septic tank.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm ignorant about the bin collections in other council areas so I'm not sure if these bin collections are done elsewhere or not, however Falkirk Council have suspended all bin collections except for the green bin and the food waste caddy, citing staff absence and social distancing restrictions as the reasons.

However as a compromise they have said that people are able to put out 2 additional bags of waste alongside their green bin, on their green bin collection day, which is once every 4 weeks.


I take it the 'green bin' is general waste.

Councils have statutory duty to collect general waste and food waste, garden waste is not a statutory requirement.

[Sir David Gray]

I take it the 'green bin' is general waste.

Councils have statutory duty to collect general waste and food waste, garden waste is not a statutory requirement.

Yep the examples the Council gives on their website are;

Polystyrene
Nappies (disposable nappies can be collected via the AHP collection service)
Incontinence products (incontinence products can be collected via the AHP collection service)
Paint tins
Animal waste
Cold ashes
Plastic film (you can take clean plastic film to local supermarket plastic bag recycling points)
Plastic foil such as crisp packets and sweet wrappers
Vacuum dust
Any other items not currently accepted in the kerbside recycling service

[Just_Jimmy]

No need for snide insults. This is a forum for all points of view....unless you believe anyone who disagrees with youis incapable of reasoned thinking? Check the thread...a broad range of different, reasoned views.Exactly my point Sudds. We all want one goal, normal service resumed asap.

Until then we need serviceable solutions. Whilst a rebate isn't the answer - I understand why people are asking the question.

1. Many feel council tax is already over priced for what you get.
2. Services are reduced. Admittedly through no fault of the council.
3. Money is very tight for people due to the current situation.

We need a solution that means people still get a proper service, this is enhanced due to the tips being closed also. We absolutely don't need smart arse digs or "tough ****" type vibs. That just pisses people off more.

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[Just_Jimmy]

That’s interesting, thanks. I had a vague understanding of funding for local services in England but wasn’t sure about ‘blue light’ services.PM if you want to discuss public services further. Maybe not too interesting for the board? [emoji23]



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[Just_Jimmy]

Water is also itemised separately in Scotland, the difference is its added to the council tax for collection purposes. I do not pay for water or sewage services because I live in the country and have a private water supply and septic tank.It is included generally in the price in Scotland? Whilst in England this isn't the case. Similar to your situation by sounds of it.

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[Mibbes Aye]

PM if you want to discuss public services further. Maybe not too interesting for the board? [emoji23]



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Might take you up on that :aok:

As far as this board goes, there is a great line in the film ‘Primary Colors’, which is pretty much based on Bill Clinton winning the White House first time round. I think it got used again by one of the characters in “The West Wing”. Now admittedly they were both depictions about flawed but ultimately progressive liberals :greengrin

The line in ‘Primary Colors’ is said by Emma Thompson, who essentially plays Hillary at the time Bill is working towards the Democratic Primary before he first wins the presidency. I can’t find the direct quote on IMDB but the scene from memory is one of the aides making quite an acute point, then being challenged that voters wouldn’t understand it.

Then ‘Hillary’ says that we are here to raise the bar, not lower it.

It is an old film now, twenty years, although still an enjoyable watch. John Travolta plays what is essentially Bill Clinton and obviously loves the role.

Anyway the quote, while I can’t remember it or even find it online, resonated with me and lingers in the memory. Social media has the power to raise the bar or lower the bar. We see it do both. Hopefully enough of us tip the balance in the right direction.

[lapsedhibee]

Social media has the power to raise the bar or lower the bar. We see it do both. Hopefully enough of us tip the balance in the right direction.

Might be misunderstanding your point here, but where do we see social media raising the bar? Far as I understand Cambridge Analytica etc social media were used in the 2016 referendum to lower it, by spreading cleverly targeted propaganda. Unless you just mean that intelligent conversation is a good thing on boards like this.

[Sudds_1]

Exactly my point Sudds. We all want one goal, normal service resumed asap.

Until then we need serviceable solutions. Whilst a rebate isn't the answer - I understand why people are asking the question.

1. Many feel council tax is already over priced for what you get.
2. Services are reduced. Admittedly through no fault of the council.
3. Money is very tight for people due to the current situation.

We need a solution that means people still get a proper service, this is enhanced due to the tips being closed also. We absolutely don't need smart arse digs or "tough ****" type vibs. That just pisses people off more.

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I agree 100% my question was rather aimed at raising awareness of the service being provided and meadures to compensate. Many people are on reduced or no income ( and furlough) so issues of costs are heightened. When this is all over i hope councils AND government will look seriously at the issue.

[Just_Jimmy]

Might take you up on that :aok:

As far as this board goes, there is a great line in the film ‘Primary Colors’, which is pretty much based on Bill Clinton winning the White House first time round. I think it got used again by one of the characters in “The West Wing”. Now admittedly they were both depictions about flawed but ultimately progressive liberals :greengrin

The line in ‘Primary Colors’ is said by Emma Thompson, who essentially plays Hillary at the time Bill is working towards the Democratic Primary before he first wins the presidency. I can’t find the direct quote on IMDB but the scene from memory is one of the aides making quite an acute point, then being challenged that voters wouldn’t understand it.

Then ‘Hillary’ says that we are here to raise the bar, not lower it.

It is an old film now, twenty years, although still an enjoyable watch. John Travolta plays what is essentially Bill Clinton and obviously loves the role.

Anyway the quote, while I can’t remember it or even find it online, resonated with me and lingers in the memory. Social media has the power to raise the bar or lower the bar. We see it do both. Hopefully enough of us tip the balance in the right direction.I've never seen the Clinton film but I'll look it up. The west wing is imo, the best TV show ever written.

It's the raise the level of debate quote, it might be in let Bartlett be Bartlett episode when Leo says we might lose the White House but we'll raise the level of debate.

There's also one between Sam and Josh but I can't recall it exactly.



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[hibeg]

There’s suggestions that council has determined that this week is the last garden bin collection for a few months ...

Received an email that they are being stopped from 7 April in Edinburgh

[heretoday]

There are going to be mountains of black bags on Edinburgh's streets pretty soon. Fly tippers are on the prowl. Trouble is the bin companies are only contracted to pick up the wheelie bins and nothing else. Also the dumps are closed. It's going to lead to a public health problem.

Personally speaking, if they provided me with a suitable vehicle and gloves etc I'd be willing to go around my area and pick up some of the fly tipping and take it to a dump. I hate black bags lying about. Fat chance of that I suppose.

[-Jonesy-]

There are going to be mountains of black bags on Edinburgh's streets pretty soon. Fly tippers are on the prowl. Trouble is the bin companies are only contracted to pick up the wheelie bins and nothing else. Also the dumps are closed. It's going to lead to a public health problem.

Personally speaking, if they provided me with a suitable vehicle and gloves etc I'd be willing to go around my area and pick up some of the fly tipping and take it to a dump. I hate black bags lying about. Fat chance of that I suppose.

Dumps are closed too which isn’t very helpful either

[green day]

There are going to be mountains of black bags on Edinburgh's streets pretty soon. Fly tippers are on the prowl. Trouble is the bin companies are only contracted to pick up the wheelie bins and nothing else. Also the dumps are closed. It's going to lead to a public health problem.

Personally speaking, if they provided me with a suitable vehicle and gloves etc I'd be willing to go around my area and pick up some of the fly tipping and take it to a dump. I hate black bags lying about. Fat chance of that I suppose.

Why would this be the case?

The only bins not being collected are garden rubbish and glass.

[lapsedhibee]

Why would this be the case?

The only bins not being collected are garden rubbish and glass.
There's a hint in the council e-mail about suspension of garden rubbish collection, I think, that recycling bins may be next to get suspended.

[danhibees1875]

There's a hint in the council e-mail about suspension of garden rubbish collection, I think, that recycling bins may be next to get suspended.

Surely the only way they could do so would be to say that people no longer need to worry about recycling during this time and to use the biggest bin they have (recycling one for me) for all waste which will all be put in the landfill.

My grass is due a cut and I've no idea where the bags of grass are going to end up at the moment.

[green day]

There's a hint in the council e-mail about suspension of garden rubbish collection, I think, that recycling bins may be next to get suspended.

They have a statutory responsibility to collect landfill and food waste, so thats a possibility I guess.

Not sure how that translates into "there will be a mountain of black bags shortly" though??

(appreciate it wasnt you that said it)

[lapsedhibee]

They have a statutory responsibility to collect landfill and food waste, so thats a possibility I guess.

Not sure how that translates into "there will be a mountain of black bags shortly" though??

(appreciate it wasnt you that said it)

Think if people mix recycling waste into general waste it won't all go in to (generally smaller) general waste bins, leading to additional black bags of mixed landfill and recycling waste?

[lapsedhibee]

Surely the only way they could do so would be to say that people no longer need to worry about recycling during this time and to use the biggest bin they have (recycling one for me) for all waste which will all be put in the landfill.

My grass is due a cut and I've no idea where the bags of grass are going to end up at the moment.

Sensible, but confusion central!

[Moulin Yarns]

There's a hint in the council e-mail about suspension of garden rubbish collection, I think, that recycling bins may be next to get suspended.

As I said earlier, the statutory responsibility of council waste management is general household waste and food waste, my council and many other charge for garden waste collection. Recycling is an odd one because councils pay a levy for the volume of landfill, but by not collecting recycling bins they are not putting workers at unnecessary risk.

Should we be paying council tax bills when some of the normal council services are altered as a result of the Covid-19 epidemic? Absolutely. As for those who think they shouldn't pay because of the current situation, look at yourself and ask yourself what you want your council to do for you when you are old and frail and need to use the care services that the council provides.

[Moulin Yarns]

Surely the only way they could do so would be to say that people no longer need to worry about recycling during this time and to use the biggest bin they have (recycling one for me) for all waste which will all be put in the landfill.

My grass is due a cut and I've no idea where the bags of grass are going to end up at the moment.


Have you thought about making compost?

[Billy Whizz]

Drove by the Sighthill dump today, gates all closed, thought it would be open for some items

[danhibees1875]

Have you thought about making compost?

I hadn't... I'll Google how that's done though and have a look. :aok:

[heretoday]

Why would this be the case?

The only bins not being collected are garden rubbish and glass.

It's happening already.

[Moulin Yarns]

It's happening already.

Not sure if everywhere is the same, but local recycling points, in car parks and supermarkets are still open. Bottle banks etc can still be used. My council has never collected glass.

[green day]

It's happening already.

May be localised to you, and given we are only one week since they stopped collecting bottles, and one day since the announcement about garden waste, seems rather odd.

[speedy_gonzales]

Not sure if everywhere is the same, but local recycling points, in car parks and supermarkets are still open. Bottle banks etc can still be used. My council has never collected glass.

When Edinburgh council announced they were postponing the uplift of the blue glass bins, they requested we don't use local facilities at supermarkets. Unsure why, perhaps they're not being uplifted either or they're worried they'll be full to overflowing in no time.

[Bristolhibby]

Oh aye, Hibs ST's.

(Call me a pedant, but I have attempted to pause my Sky Sports but I wouldn't be looking for any kind of refund from Hibs should the season end today. Another word for me could be fickle!)

Absolutely. Sky, BT Sports, Gym membership = fair game.

My boys footie team, and camping weekend (now rearranged) = I’ll let that ride.

[Mibbes Aye]

Might be misunderstanding your point here, but where do we see social media raising the bar? Far as I understand Cambridge Analytica etc social media were used in the 2016 referendum to lower it, by spreading cleverly targeted propaganda. Unless you just mean that intelligent conversation is a good thing on boards like this.

Yes, I meant intelligent conversation or thoughtful, articulate posts.

But yes, I take your point about the capacity to mass-manipulate opinion.

[heretoday]

When Edinburgh council announced they were postponing the uplift of the blue glass bins, they requested we don't use local facilities at supermarkets. Unsure why, perhaps they're not being uplifted either or they're worried they'll be full to overflowing in no time.

The one at Tesco Corstorphine is getting there. Old clothes, rubbish cast on the ground. It's what people do, I'm afraid.

The dumps should be open. I know they're trying to minimise car journeys but surely it's better than heaps of crap piling up in the streets which someone is going to have to deal with sooner or later before we have a health hazard to add to Corona?

[Moulin Yarns]

The one at Tesco Corstorphine is getting there. Old clothes, rubbish cast on the ground. It's what people do, I'm afraid.

The dumps should be open. I know they're trying to minimise car journeys but surely it's better than heaps of crap piling up in the streets which someone is going to have to deal with sooner or later before we have a health hazard to add to Corona?

Get in touch with your councillors.

[stoneyburn hibs]

This thread will pale into insignificance before too long.

[heretoday]

I've an apology to make to the council. I went out today and all black bags have been removed from the pavements. I noticed a white council pickup at work - not Biffa or whatever - with a cage full of bags in the back.
Well done Edinburgh Council - clearing up the mess.

[green day]

I've an apology to make to the council. I went out today and all black bags have been removed from the pavements. I noticed a white council pickup at work - not Biffa or whatever - with a cage full of bags in the back.
Well done Edinburgh Council - clearing up the mess.

Thats great to hear :aok:

Hopefully people will settle down and be sensible with rubbish - council are just doing what they need to keep their people safe.

[Wembley67]

It'll be interesting to see how far the council will pursue overdue council tax this year. It will certainly not be at the forefront of folks minds to pay with financial uncertainty for the unforeseeable future.

[silverhibee]

Can I put bags of garden waste in my grey bucket if it has enough room.

[Billy Whizz]

Can I put bags of garden waste in my grey bucket if it has enough room.

Can anyone clarify please

[BigKev]

Can I put bags of garden waste in my grey bucket if it has enough room.

I’ve done so before without issue.

[Mon Dieu4]

Can anyone clarify please

I've done it before and just made sure there was a black bag on top incase anyone has a look

[EI255]

Surely all be due a refund of some kind.

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[Moulin Yarns]

Surely all be due a refund of some kind.

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No, just no. Get real, who is expecting a refund for the council tax, councils are still functioning, albeit at the same time as people are having to work from home or being furloughed.

[Hibby Bairn]

It'll be interesting to see how far the council will pursue overdue council tax this year. It will certainly not be at the forefront of folks minds to pay with financial uncertainty for the unforeseeable future.

Hopefully aggressively. You can’t just stop paying tax unless you have a welfare related reason for it.

[Scouse Hibee]

It'll be interesting to see how far the council will pursue overdue council tax this year. It will certainly not be at the forefront of folks minds to pay with financial uncertainty for the unforeseeable future.

I would hope that along with other essential bills and taxes it will be one of the expenses that people count as a priority to pay.

[Mibbes Aye]

No, just no. Get real, who is expecting a refund for the council tax, councils are still functioning, albeit at the same time as people are having to work from home or being furloughed.

Couldnt agree more. Councils have been stripped to the bone over the last ten years- a toxic mix of central funding nowhere near matching demands for services, and an enforced inability to address that through council tax increases.

All essential services are being delivered, non-essential staff are generally being redeployed to support essential services and not just council services, but services delivered by the independent and third sector.

[Moulin Yarns]

Couldnt agree more. Councils have been stripped to the bone over the last ten years- a toxic mix of central funding nowhere near matching demands for services, and an enforced inability to address that through council tax increases.

All essential services are being delivered, non-essential staff are generally being redeployed to support essential services and not just council services, but services delivered by the independent and third sector.

Lock me up in an asylum, Maybes Aye has agreed with me. 😉

[Mibbes Aye]

Lock me up in an asylum, Maybes Aye has agreed with me. 😉

It is February 29th or the spring equinox or Halley’s Comet or something :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

It is February 29th or the spring equinox or Halley’s Comet or something :greengrin

👍😂

[Billy Whizz]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/scots-council-worker-tops-annual-rich-list-with-615000-pay?top

Quite an extraordinary salary!

[speedy_gonzales]

Hopefully aggressively. You can’t just stop paying tax unless you have a welfare related reason for it.

I beg to differ.
I stopped paying mines a good few years back due to a series of events that led to me receiving a very poor service from one of the council's sectors.
After submitting issues, then escalating complaints, meetings with local councillors including Jenny Dawe who was head of the council at one point, I cancelled my direct debit and encouraged the council to take me to court.
I had every intention to pay my arrears and any penalty as long as my complaints could be recorded.
In the end though, I had a visit from a really reasonable individual who agreed my issues were genuine, apologised and endeavoured to get to the bottom of the problem and to his credit he did all of that.
To my surprise the arrears were wiped with the only change in my situation being I now have to pay my CT monthly for perpetuity unlike the 10 monthly DD's most residents enjoy.

[Scouse Hibee]

I beg to differ.
I stopped paying mines a good few years back due to a series of events that led to me receiving a very poor service from one of the council's sectors.
After submitting issues, then escalating complaints, meetings with local councillors including Jenny Dawe who was head of the council at one point, I cancelled my direct debit and encouraged the council to take me to court.
I had every intention to pay my arrears and any penalty as long as my complaints could be recorded.
In the end though, I had a visit from a really reasonable individual who agreed my issues were genuine, apologised and endeavoured to get to the bottom of the problem and to his credit he did all of that.
To my surprise the arrears were wiped with the only change in my situation being I now have to pay my CT monthly for perpetuity unlike the 10 monthly DD's most residents enjoy.

How could they prevent you paying it over 10 months instead of 12?

[speedy_gonzales]

How could they prevent you paying it over 10 months instead of 12?
Quite simply, that facility is no longer available to me. My statement and DD are split over 12 months rather than 10. To be honest, it actually suits me.
Easier to budget and I never really felt the 2 months without a council tax debit at the end of the year was of any benefit.

[Billy Whizz]

Quite simply, that facility is no longer available to me. My statement and DD are split over 12 months rather than 10. To be honest, it actually suits me.
Easier to budget and I never really felt the 2 months without a council tax debit at the end of the year was of any benefit.

It is to me, we transfer the 2 months over to our Xmas fund. 2 free months in Edinburgh is quite a saving

[lapsedhibee]

It is to me, we transfer the 2 months over to our Xmas fund. 2 free months in Edinburgh is quite a saving

:hmmm: https://youtu.be/Rdz3hNW7d2w

[Scouse Hibee]

It is to me, we transfer the 2 months over to our Xmas fund. 2 free months in Edinburgh is quite a saving

How much have you actually saved towards your Xmas fund?

[danhibees1875]

:hmmm: https://youtu.be/Rdz3hNW7d2w

Harsh but :faf:

[Billy Whizz]

How much have you actually saved towards your Xmas fund?

About £570 in 2 months😄
It was a serious answer I gave, we actually do this

[Billy Whizz]

:hmmm: https://youtu.be/Rdz3hNW7d2w

Cheeky git😄

[Scouse Hibee]

The council have confirmed glass collections to be reinstated.
Commencing 28th April.

[Moulin Yarns]

The reason for the recycling centres being closed in Perth and Kinross is to discourage unnecessary car journeys and the staff are redeployed to bin collection.

[Sir David Gray]

Falkirk Council resumed normal bin collections as of Monday of this week.

[danhibees1875]

The council have confirmed glass collections to be reinstated.
Commencing 28th April.

Good stuff but where are you seeing that? Council website still has it as suspended.

(Edinburgh council I'm talking about)

[Scouse Hibee]

Good stuff but where are you seeing that? Council website still has it as suspended.

(Edinburgh council I'm talking about)

It came directly from our local MSP last night.

[danhibees1875]

It came directly from our local MSP last night.

:aok: Thanks.

[Mr Grieves]

The binman lifting our blue box will be risking a back injury

[Scouse Hibee]

The binman lifting our blue box will be risking a back injury

My two were rammed full but I emptied them at a recycling point yesterday. just need to fill them again 😁

[hibeg]

My two were rammed full but I emptied them at a recycling point yesterday. just need to fill them again 😁

I’ve been looking for a recycling place in South Edinburgh, but can’t find any that are open.
The local one at Cameron Toll has shut down

[Billy Whizz]

My two were rammed full but I emptied them at a recycling point yesterday. just need to fill them again 😁

You do know there are recycling bins at the Gyle shopping centre for glass

[Scouse Hibee]

You do know there are recycling bins at the Gyle shopping centre for glass

Yes of course but the ones at Tesco Corstorphine are closer and it had been emptied the night before 😉

[Moulin Yarns]

I’ve been looking for a recycling place in South Edinburgh, but can’t find any that are open.
The local one at Cameron Toll has shut down

https://edinburghcouncil.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=bd24cbb75a364134ad027659eb3b2033