Sunderland til I die

[Winston Ingram]

Series 2 just dropped on Netflix which focuses on last season’s failed promotion campaign.

The first series was excellent but this time Jack Ross is Sunderland’s manager

Edit: drops on Wednesday

[CMurdoch]

Series 2 just dropped on Netflix which focuses on last season’s failed promotion campaign.

The first series was excellent but this time Jack Ross is Sunderland’s manager

Didn't think it was landing until 1st April

[BILLYHIBS]

Series 2 just dropped on Netflix which focuses on last season’s failed promotion campaign.

The first series was excellent but this time Jack Ross is Sunderland’s manager
Starts Wednesday according to Netflix

[Winston Ingram]

Starts Wednesday according to Netflix

I just got a notification and it was for series 1. Initial post edited

[BILLYHIBS]

I just got a notification and it was for series 1. Initial post edited
:thumbsup:

[matty_f]

Didn't think it was landing until 1st April

That's a joke!

[Since452]

Might just be me but I'm slightly concerned that if Ross comes out well from it he might be headhunted from us. It's basically a no strings in-depth interview for other owners. That on top of changing our fortunes this season. Maybe just my negative thinking!

[Michael]

Might just be me but I'm slightly concerned that if Ross comes out well from it he might be headhunted from us. It's basically a no strings in-depth interview for other owners. That on top of changing our fortunes this season. Maybe just my negative thinking!

I doubt he'll be going anywhere. It won't be a good look on his CV if he leaves before a couple of years with us.

[Vault Boy]

IIRC Jack Ross is on record saying he hated having the camera crew in and interacted with the documentary as little as possible. I think I'm right that he said he might not have taken the job if he had been informed the documentary would still be taking place for a second year. He kept his work as private as possible, that's best for us really.

[B.H.F.C]

Might just be me but I'm slightly concerned that if Ross comes out well from it he might be headhunted from us. It's basically a no strings in-depth interview for other owners. That on top of changing our fortunes this season. Maybe just my negative thinking!

He’s not gonna get headhunted on the basis of a documentary. And his results with us, whilst and improvement on what went before, don’t merit it either.

[chrisski33]

He’s not gonna get headhunted on the basis of a documentary. And his results with us, whilst and improvement on what went before, don’t merit it either.

Spot on 👍

[Since452]

He’s not gonna get headhunted on the basis of a documentary. And his results with us, whilst and improvement on what went before, don’t merit it either.

Fingers crossed

[blackpoolhibs]

Been watching this tonight for the first time, WTF was that guy thinking about when he wanted to fight Coleman?

What a dick. :rolleyes:

[BILLYHIBS]

Been watching this tonight for the first time, WTF was that guy thinking about when he wanted to fight Coleman?

What a dick. :rolleyes:

Aye a good watch BH

[blackpoolhibs]

Aye a good watch BH

It is, was not sure if it would keep me in, but i've watched it from the start right through to Coleman getting sacked in one hit.:greengrin

[BILLYHIBS]

It is, was not sure if it would keep me in, but i've watched it from the start right through to Coleman getting sacked in one hit.:greengrin

More to come no spoilers though enjoy

[HendoDelivered]

Excited for the new season.

[Auckland Hibs]

Been watching this tonight for the first time, WTF was that guy thinking about when he wanted to fight Coleman?

What a dick. :rolleyes:

I thought Coleman came across really well in the series.

You could see how devastated the staff were when we was sacked.

[Peevemor]

Martin Bain came across OK too to be fair.

[Shrekko]

Martin Bain came across OK too to be fair.

Really?

I didn’t think he could have comes across any worse. Seemed to believe he was the most important man at the club and he was horrifically bad at his job. The vanity and tan etc just added to the amusement.

He apparently earned £1m a year too! Mind blowing.

[Haymaker]

Really?

I didn’t think he could have comes across any worse. Seemed to believe he was the most important man at the club and he was horrifically bad at his job. The vanity and tan etc just added to the amusement.

He apparently earned £1m a year too! Mind blowing.

He definitely had some cringe moments but at the same time he struck me as a man who had a job that no one could do. The budget was way over, players wouldn't move on, staff had wild ambitions on signings etc.

Great documentary series over all.

Can't wait for the Hearts one!

[BILLYHIBS]

Martin Bain came across OK too to be fair.

Martin Bain = David Brent :greengrin

[Cabbage East]

Martin Bain came across OK too to be fair.

I thought he came across terribly!

[Since452]

I thought Chris Coleman came out of it very well but on the flip side Simon Grayson seemed absolutely clueless.

I also thought Bain came across ok.

[BILLYHIBS]

Starts tomorrow Netflix 1/4/2020

Starring Jack Ross

Cannae wait for Craig Levein probably be on the Comedy Channel

[The 90+2]

Starts tomorrow Netflix 1/4/2020

Starring Jack Ross

Cannae wait for Craig Levein probably be on the Comedy Channel

Is it one episode pw?

[Nicho87]

Rodwell telling the club he’s staying and Bain rages back to his office and slams the door, personal highlight.

[BILLYHIBS]

Is it one episode pw?

Season 2 from 8 am tomorrow

[BILLYHIBS]

Rodwell telling the club he’s staying and Bain rages back to his office and slams the door, personal highlight.

Would you stay for 68k per week? 😂

[Cardinal G]

Martin Bain = David Brent :greengrin

If you think that wait till you see Charlie Methven, he's going to take it all to a new level on ineptness.

[Since452]

On it now. Intro gets me emotional. Think Jack Ross is the only sane one.

That Charlie Methven is an absolute clown.

[pontius pilate]

Just watched ep 1 as going out to work, so far that methven is a wee bit of a clown what with the ibiza type entrance, his face when the guy said doesn't matter what you play the p.a system needs upgraded lol. On a side note for anyone looking for some light hearted relief I'd recommend thigden on youtube today it's a cracker. Stay safe everyone and enjoy the weather

[Smartie]

If you think that wait till you see Charlie Methven, he's going to take it all to a new level on ineptness.

I've not seen any of the new series yet, but you can only imagine that being stars of a documentary would be right up Methven and Donald's street - until it starts to go wrong on the park.

They were like snow off a dyke when it got heated earlier this season, at a time when there was so much still to play for and so much still at stake.

[Since452]

Jack Ross is an impressive character. Looks like he had his top striker sold from underneath him in the January.

[Zambernardi1875]

If Gordon brittas and David Brent took over a football club.

[BILLYHIBS]

Jack Ross is an impressive character. Looks like he had his top striker sold from underneath him in the January.

Must have felt like dejavu with Olly Shaw 🤔

[Since452]

Must have felt like dejavu with Olly Shaw 🤔

Haha. That Maja looked a right good player tbh

[BILLYHIBS]

Haha. That Maja looked a right good player tbh

With hindsight shudda just run down his contract taken the hit and would have been in the Championship this season

[Since452]

With hindsight shudda just run down his contract taken the hit and would have been in the Championship this season

Yup. We wouldn't have had Ross though so worked well for us.

[BILLYHIBS]

Yup. We wouldn't have had Ross though so worked well for us.

Will Grigg 3m ????

Would have been better with Christian Doidge

[Hibs90]

Only just finished episode 3, but that Sophie person, horrible attitude and the sly digs at the director. It's no wonder it looks like she was given the bullet.

[Since452]

Will Grigg 3m ????

Would have been better with Christian Doidge

Interesting to hear Ross on the phone to the chairman saying he was never worth more than 1.2 million. Signed him anyway. For 3! Talk about going over the managers head.

[Cardinal G]

I've not seen any of the new series yet, but you can only imagine that being stars of a documentary would be right up Methven and Donald's street - until it starts to go wrong on the park.

They were like snow off a dyke when it got heated earlier this season, at a time when there was so much still to play for and so much still at stake.

Never trusted or liked Methven from the start, felt to me that we were a way for his ego to be massaged,, loved being centre of attention, 1st few games in charge he was often Pitchside pre match, half time and then greeting players off pitch at full time. I will say though that during footage on series from both Wembley games his observations of where things were going wrong in each match were spot on.
As for Donald, he had best intentions but clearly banked on promotion and a quick sale or massive investment. Went it didn't happen it all started to unravel and came to a head in November when questions were raised about funding/investment and he couldn't tell the same tale twice, consistently being caught out trying to fob fans off.
Hopefully this series will bring in new investment and leadership.

[hibbydog]

I hate that handshake that footballers do.

Can they not just do it normally? Like gentlemen, what what what.

[gillythehibby]

I wonder if they get promoted in this one?:greengrin

[hibbydog]

They’re doing that damn handshake again.

This is fitba, not USA Major League Baseball

[BroxburnHibee]

I watched it all today. Its interesting to see what goes on behind the scenes but it feels like a lot of the fan stuff is contrived for the cameras.

I did think Jack Ross looked uncomfortable with it all.

I hope Hibs never do this.

[04Sauzee]

That Charlie boy is an utter tool

[green with envy]

It all seemed to go wrong for Sunderland after the Griggs signing. When the owner suggested to Ross that he was upping the bid 1.2m and Ross told him not to go anymore as he felt he wasn't worth it, what does the owner do, signs him for 3m.

[Since452]

Jack Ross being defended all over Twitter. Came out of it really well imo

[Hibeesmad]

I watched it all today. Its interesting to see what goes on behind the scenes but it feels like a lot of the fan stuff is contrived for the cameras.

I did think Jack Ross looked uncomfortable with it all.

I hope Hibs never do this.

It seemed like there wasnt as much footage of training and what's going on in the dressing room etc as there was in the first series. Ross probably had a lot to do with that.

[Greenio]

Just smashed the entire season in one sitting. Really enjoyed it, esp the football action itself.

Jack Ross came across well, Charlie came across as a total bell end - mindful that an edit can play it anyway you want

Hope they get promotion this season

[BILLYHIBS]

Season 1 felt sorry for the fans

Season 2 felt sorry for the fans

They deserve better

[Since452]

Personally hope they stay where they are. Their treatment of Jack Ross was very poor.

[Onion]

Enjoyed S1 last night. Just made me wonder all the more where Netflix was in 2015/16 Scottish Cup campaign and that great day in May ? What a story that would have made.

[weecounty hibby]

Enjoyed S1 last night. Just made me wonder all the more where Netflix was in 2015/16 Scottish Cup campaign and that great day in May ? What a story that would have made.

I said on another thread that Hibs should give Time for Heroes to Netflix for free. The PR would be amazing

[660]

I said on another thread that Hibs should give Time for Heroes to Netflix for free. The PR would be amazing

This is a great shout especially when folk are desperate for football stuff to watch at the moment. Might be worth firing an email to the club.

[.Sean.]

This is a great shout especially when folk are desperate for football stuff to watch at the moment. Might be worth firing an email to the club.
One for KP?

[MWHIBBIES]

I don't think Netflix just take anything if its free. There are many people who would kill to have their productions on netflix for free. Time for hereos is special to us but really wouldn't be to many others.

[weecounty hibby]

I don't think Netflix just take anything if its free. There are many people who would kill to have their productions on netflix for free. Time for hereos is special to us but really wouldn't be to many others.
Like Sunderland is only watched by Sunderland fans?

[BILLYHIBS]

I don't think Netflix just take anything if its free. There are many people who would kill to have their productions on netflix for free. Time for hereos is special to us but really wouldn't be to many others.

You will be surprised lots of people think it is a great story

I have been all around the world and once I show people SDG kissing the Cup on my phone they know right away who I support they nod and laugh and tell me they saw it on TV Football is a universal language

[MWHIBBIES]

Like Sunderland is only watched by Sunderland fans?Bigger club, show full of juicy gossip and drama, chance for Newcastle fans to laugh? Yeah, mindblowing to suggest that would get more viewers than us winning the cup that only we care about.


You will be surprised lots of people think it is a great story

I have been all around the world and once I show people SDG kissing the Cup on my phone they know right away who I support they nod and laugh and tell me they saw it on TV Football is a universal language

It is a great story no doubt. It wouldn't draw millions of viewers on Netflix though.

[weecounty hibby]

[QUOTE=MWHIBBIES;6132914]Bigger club, show full of juicy gossip and drama, chance for Newcastle fans to laugh? Yeah, mindblowing to suggest that would get more viewers than us winning the cup that only we care about

I watched I Tonia the other night but have absolutely no interest in ice skating. People will watch stuff that they have no interest in, especially at this time of decreased social activities.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Wonder if they'll title the Jambo version
"Hertz... While They Died"?

[weecounty hibby]

Also football folk will watch almost anything to do with football at the moment. How many of us have been watching heaps of YouTube videos of everything from Arsenal to Zidane and everything in between?

[Smartie]

Time for Heroes was targeted specifically at Hibs fans so that would really be of limited appeal.

The wider Hibs Scottish Cup Story culminating in the 2016 victory was an absolute cracker though and TfH redone to suit a wider audience could, imo, be a colossal success.

Sunderland Til I Die is aimed at a far wider audience than just Sunderland fans - in fact, many Sunderland fans don't like it.

[HibbyAndy]

Enjoyed season 2 as much as i enjoyed season 1 , Brilliant :aok:

Sunderland losing on penalty's in the final of that wee cup then heartbreaking losing the play off final in the last minute to Charlton , Like the Sunderland fan said ' Why is it always us ' Brought me right back to Hibs until we landed the Scottish cup , Can completely relate to that ..Always thought Hibs were the unluckiest team in the world


As a side note that Ozturk got sent off in the play off 1st leg semi final but then played the 2nd leg THEN the play off final so what game did he miss for seeing red ?:confused:

Also found it strange they sold 46 thousand tickets for a boxing day game against Bradford but struggled to sell 25 thousand tickets for the play off game at home in what surely was a HUNDRED times bigger game :confused:



Jack Ross came out good but that Bellend Charlie was an utter muppet ...'Look at me...look at me..'

[Northernhibee]

Watching it just now. What a bellend the chap obsessed with the Boxing Day attendance is.

[Cardinal G]

Enjoyed season 2 as much as i enjoyed season 1 , Brilliant :aok:

Sunderland losing on penalty's in the final of that wee cup then heartbreaking losing the play off final in the last minute to Charlton , Like the Sunderland fan said ' Why is it always us ' Brought me right back to Hibs until we landed the Scottish cup , Can completely relate to that ..Always thought Hibs were the unluckiest team in the world


As a side note that Ozturk got sent off in the play off 1st leg semi final but then played the 2nd leg THEN the play off final so what game did he miss for seeing red ?:confused:

Also found it strange they sold 46 thousand tickets for a boxing day game against Bradford but struggled to sell 25 thousand tickets for the play off game at home in what surely was a HUNDRED times bigger game :confused:



Jack Ross came out good but that Bellend Charlie was an utter muppet ...'Look at me...look at me..'

Ozturk won appeal so played in 2nd leg

[HibbyAndy]

Ozturk won appeal so played in 2nd leg

:aok:



Did think it was harsh , Sunderland fans screaming he won the ball , Certainly looked like it ....Referee's getting absolute massive decisions wrong in multi million pound games , Yet they hide behind a shield and it's not mandatory for them to give an explanation after the game , That needs sorted pronto !

[Peevemor]

Do they only have 2 songs?

[Northernhibee]

That episode where they signed Will Grigg is absolutely mental.

[HibbyAndy]

That episode where they signed Will Grigg is absolutely mental.

Where Jack Ross told him not to go above a million as he is not worth it but They signed him anyway for 3 million ? Staggering

[Northernhibee]

Where Jack Ross told him not to go above a million as he is not worth it but They signed him anyway for 3 million ? Staggering

Then the comments on the radio show the episode after. Crazy.

[matty_f]

Their season is how our season would have been if we'd lost the Scottish Cup Final. So many similarities and so, so close to it being something fantastic instead. They were a baw hair from a cup and promotion.

[007]

Wonder if they'll title the Jambo version
"Hertz... While They Died"?

Fudland 'Til I Die.

[superfurryhibby]

That episode where they signed Will Grigg is absolutely mental.

Some of it didn't ring very true. Heavily edited. No way did anyone sign for a club whilst still under contract without the consent of the club that holds their contract. They should have held onto Josh whatsit until the summer. Catastrophic decision making. They must think the fans zip up the back.

The Charlie Methven guy reminds me so much of David Duff.

[Since452]

Do they only have 2 songs?

They're a big massive super club so surely not

[SquashedFrogg]

Fudland 'Til I Die.

Sisters hand on my thigh?

[sean04]

What I find mental is Jack Ross was probably told you have 1.25 to spend on a striker. If he had 3/4 mill to spend I’m sure it wouldn’t have been on will Grigg
Losing maja was the beginning of the end. Any team losing potentially 30odd goals a season would struggle. Be like Celtc or rangers losing edouard or Morelos

[Pretty Boy]

I didn't get a lot of the good press for Coleman in the last series. Seemed a nice guy but failed to get anything out of the players. Watching this series though I'm not sure anyone can succeed at Sunderland. The players strolling in late for the 1st day back at training and it all being a bit of a joke summed up the mentality that was in place. They are a shambles.

Jack Ross came across pretty well as did a lot of the backroom people.

[BILLYHIBS]

Spoiler Alert: After Josh Maja was sold and they brought in the misfiring Will Grigg the fans started to complain that their team couldnae score couldnae defend and had too many draws it would have been interesting to see how Jack Ross handled this added pressure on the training ground and in prematch team talks but fair play to him he got them to a Cup Final and a Play Off Final with a star striker sold from under him and with a player he obviously did not want at the money they paid
There is no doubt they would be back in the Championship if they had kept Maja and run down his contract but the two guys in charge didnae help

[BroxburnHibee]

Some of it didn't ring very true. Heavily edited. No way did anyone sign for a club whilst still under contract without the consent of the club that holds their contract. They should have held onto Josh whatsit until the summer. Catastrophic decision making. They must think the fans zip up the back.

The Charlie Methven guy reminds me so much of David Duff.

Agreed. That sale would have to be ok'd before he could go.

Didnt ring true.

[CMurdoch]

With hindsight shudda just run down his contract taken the hit and would have been in the Championship this season

Exactly.
Compounded the mistake by buying a player for £3 million who Ross told them was worth £1.25 million. There is also the matter of Griggs ongoing wages. Donald's right hand man also told him not to do it but he ignored him as well. No point in having a sound right hand man and a manager if you ignore them.

As for Methven. Lots of noise but little substance. The Trump of Sunderland.
He made the staff's lives a misery. No long term gain in that strategy.

Slagging the previous regime was also wrong.
The simple reason the club was in such a mess previously was that they had been unable to shake off the high earners quickly enough as they fell through the Divisions.
If they had taken their final spoon of medicine last season they would have bucketed the last of the high earners last summer but instead added another in Grigg.

Back to the original point they should have kept Maja. They would have almost certainly been promoted and it would have been cheaper than what they eventually did to fail.
The other appalling mistake was selling Maja before they had a replacement. At that point all the other teams knew they were desperate for another striker. Madness.

[Pretty Boy]

Exactly.
Compounded the mistake by buying a player for £3 million who Ross told them was worth £1.25 million. There is also the matter of Griggs ongoing wages. Donald's right hand man also told him not to do it but he ignored him as well. No point in having a sound right hand man and a manager if you ignore them.

As for Methven. Lots of noise but little substance. The Trump of Sunderland.
He made the staff's lives a misery. No long term gain in that strategy.

Slagging the previous regime was also wrong.
The simple reason the club was in such a mess previously was that they had been unable to shake off the high earners quickly enough as they fell through the Divisions.
If they had taken their final spoon of medicine last season they would have bucketed the last of the high earners last summer but instead added another in Grigg.

Back to the original point they should have kept Maja. They would have almost certainly been promoted and it would have been cheaper than what they eventually did to fail.
The other appalling mistake was selling Maja before they had a replacement. At that point all the other teams knew they were desperate for another striker. Madness.

In the 1st couple of episodes I didn't get a lot of the criticism I'd read about Methven. A bit of an empty vessel but he was just saying the same things every football administrator says when they go into a new job. We've heard the same stuff at Hibs often enough.

However as the series progressed it became increasingly clear he was a pretty horrible individual and he treated some people really poorly.

[CMurdoch]

In the 1st couple of episodes I didn't get a lot of the criticism I'd read about Methven. A bit of an empty vessel but he was just saying the same things every football administrator says when they go into a new job. We've heard the same stuff at Hibs often enough.

However as the series progressed it became increasingly clear he was a pretty horrible individual and he treated some people really poorly.

The footage where he is obnoxious towards his female assistant on the touchline at the boxing day game where he demands the attendance figure was beyond the pale. If I was her husband or father I would be fuming and looking to chin him. Disrespectful in the extreme. Imagine how he behaves towards staff when the camera isn't rolling.
Been rationing myself and will watch the last 2 episodes tonight.

[superfurryhibby]

The footage where he is obnoxious towards his female assistant on the touchline at the boxing day game where he demands the attendance figure was beyond the pale. If I was her husband or father I would be chinning or nutting him when my wife or daughter moved on. Disrespectful in the extreme. Imagine what he is like to staff when the camera isn't rolling.
I've still to watch the last 2 episodes

Agreed, he was acting like a total tool. Ego driven, wanted to announce the record crowd to the crowd. Fair enough, but as with most things in life, no need to come the ****.

Is this tool still involved with Sunderland?

It also shows how precarious football management is. Methven and the other guy clearly decided to sell Maja late in the day, not allowing time for the football operations to identify a suitable replacement. I'm sure Ross would have preferred the laddie stayed and went for nowt at the end of the season.

That kind of stuff undermines the credibility of the series for me. A very glossed over version of the reality of running a football team.

[Heisenberg]

The footage where he is obnoxious towards his female assistant on the touchline at the boxing day game where he demands the attendance figure was beyond the pale. If I was her husband or father I would be fuming and looking to chin him. Disrespectful in the extreme. Imagine how he behaves towards staff when the camera isn't rolling.
Been rationing myself and will watch the last 2 episodes tonight.

That entire bit made me cringe. Horrible behaviour. Sure it looked like she’d been sacked at the end of that episode too.

[erin go bragh]

Why sell their top scorer for €1.5 m . Can’t understand why they did that . Had they kept him ,they would have been promoted.
They pretty much threw Jack Ross under the bus but their loss is our gain .
We all know how their long suffering fans felt . Thank f
for 2016 .

[Since452]

Why sell their top scorer for €1.5 m . Can’t understand why they did that . Had they kept him ,they would have been promoted.
They pretty much threw Jack Ross under the bus but their loss is our gain .
We all know how their long suffering fans felt . Thank f
for 2016 .

To be fair they're far more used to lack of success than Hibs fans. They haven't won anything for 47 years and played four European games in their history! I doubt they'll get to Wembley twice in one season again.

[TelaStella]

Binged it all in one go on Wednesday and from the first episode had my suspicions of Methven. Was quite surprised to see how quickly a support like Sunderland’s seemed to endorse him as well though as it series goes on you simply put it down to sheer desperation than anything else. Whole thing came across as a massive cringe really, fans being mugged off left, right n centre. The whole fetch me a beer, unneeded swearing in press conferences and functions along with the “I’m from Oxford but...” & “people say things about the North East but...” was just condescending and if I was a fan I’d be left pretty embarrassed and pissed after that showing of the club. Not a team I’ve got high thoughts for but my heart really does go out to some of the fans and hope one day soon they have a bit more to shout about on and off the park. Anyone know if Methven and Co are still involved down there?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Billy Whizz]

Binged it all in one go on Wednesday and from the first episode had my suspicions of Methven. Was quite surprised to see how quickly a support like Sunderland’s seemed to endorse him as well though as it series goes on you simply put it down to sheer desperation than anything else. Whole thing came across as a massive cringe really, fans being mugged off left, right n centre. The whole fetch me a beer, unneeded swearing in press conferences and functions along with the “I’m from Oxford but...” & “people say things about the North East but...” was just condescending and if I was a fan I’d be left pretty embarrassed and pissed after that showing of the club. Not a team I’ve got high thoughts for but my heart really does go out to some of the fans and hope one day soon they have a bit more to shout about on and off the park. Anyone know if Methven and Co are still involved down there?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Donald still around, Methven gone

[BILLYHIBS]

Sure I read that Methven now gone but still retains a 5% stake in the club

[LancashireHibby]

The footage where he is obnoxious towards his female assistant on the touchline at the boxing day game where he demands the attendance figure was beyond the pale. If I was her husband or father I would be fuming and looking to chin him. Disrespectful in the extreme. Imagine how he behaves towards staff when the camera isn't rolling.
Been rationing myself and will watch the last 2 episodes tonight.
Although he undoubtedly behaved like a tool at that point (and plenty of others), I was very surprised that they weren’t able to get the figure at the click of a finger. In a near sell out, there presumably wouldn’t be any cash turnstiles which would be the only process that would require a manual reconciliation rather than simply being a report direct from the ticketing system. Not that I know a thing or two about this kind of thing, I promise!

[Peevemor]

Although he undoubtedly behaved like a tool at that point (and plenty of others), I was very surprised that they weren’t able to get the figure at the click of a finger. In a near sell out, there presumably wouldn’t be any cash turnstiles which would be the only process that would require a manual reconciliation rather than simply being a report direct from the ticketing system. Not that I know a thing or two about this kind of thing, I promise!I found that strange too. They also showed a woman counting a huge batch of unsold tickets (stubs still attached), although that could have been dodgy editing.

[Perd Hapley]

I found that strange too. They also showed a woman counting a huge batch of unsold tickets (stubs still attached), although that could have been dodgy editing.

Was unconvinced with the editing indeed - I'd need to watch it again but I'm sure in the play-off final it showed and possibly mentioned in commentary Lewis Morgan playing at the start, only for him to come on as Power's injury sub minutes later. Also agree with others that the framing of certain parts left a little to be desired but it's still a unique look at a club on that level.

Agree with the broad consensus that Ross came across well, Stewart Donald seemed out of his depth, and Methven came across as a smarmy Eton/Oxford finance and PR corporate sociopath git. When the fans' rep suggested ticket discounts for ST holders who'd been to earlier cup rounds and he cut him off to say 'good idea, but I want to get back to mine which makes more money' or words to that effect - it's a toss-up for me between that and him losing his nerve and verbally abusing his employee on the sideline over the gate receipts as to which moment disgusted me more.

Would never wish someone harm but I have to say the look on his face as reality hit in the end was schadenfreude incarnate - much as I feel for the fans and staff it's always nice to see a hubristic numpty humbled. I do accept though that my opinion of this man has been formed in one afternoon from one television programme so I won't condemn him to the dogs just yet. I will nevertheless however severely judge him because as a bored and quarantined consumer in the same economy that put him in charge of a football club I have paid for that right. Tosser.

His Wikipedia page is a laugh too - given the fawning tone of the thing, the random slogan in the intro and the guy's history in PR I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest there may have been some autobiographing going on

[LancashireHibby]

Was unconvinced with the editing indeed - I'd need to watch it again but I'm sure in the play-off final it showed and possibly mentioned in commentary Lewis Morgan playing at the start, only for him to come on as Power's injury sub minutes later. Also agree with others that the framing of certain parts left a little to be desired but it's still a unique look at a club on that level.

Agree with the broad consensus that Ross came across well, Stewart Donald seemed out of his depth, and Methven came across as a smarmy Eton/Oxford finance and PR corporate sociopath git. When the fans' rep suggested ticket discounts for ST holders who'd been to earlier cup rounds and he cut him off to say 'good idea, but I want to get back to mine which makes more money' or words to that effect - it's a toss-up for me between that and him losing his nerve and verbally abusing his employee on the sideline over the gate receipts as to which moment disgusted me more.

Would never wish someone harm but I have to say the look on his face as reality hit in the end was schadenfreude incarnate - much as I feel for the fans and staff it's always nice to see a hubristic numpty humbled. I do accept though that my opinion of this man has been formed in one afternoon from one television programme so I won't condemn him to the dogs just yet. I will nevertheless however severely judge him because as a bored and quarantined consumer in the same economy that put him in charge of a football club I have paid for that right. Tosser.

His Wikipedia page is a laugh too - given the fawning tone of the thing, the random slogan in the intro and the guy's history in PR I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest there may have been some autobiographing going on
Wasn’t even a discount for those who had been to games in earlier rounds and just a case of offering priority to them ahead of a general sale for Wembley. Can only assume they had a paid membership scheme to flog to get people to jump ahead of general sale. Such conversations happen every year up and down the country (I know, I’ve been in a couple of them) and undoubtedly at Easter Road on more than one occasions given the various combinations of sales priority we’ve had over the years.

[Andy74]

It certainly brings home that in modern football you have real football people, managers, being judged by people with some money but no football knowledge. They do think they are the most passionate football people imaginable though. The fact they’ve been passionate about 4 or 5 teams previously says they probably aren’t really.

[chrisski33]

Agreed, he was acting like a total tool. Ego driven, wanted to announce the record crowd to the crowd. Fair enough, but as with most things in life, no need to come the ****.

Is this tool still involved with Sunderland?

It also shows how precarious football management is. Methven and the other guy clearly decided to sell Maja late in the day, not allowing time for the football operations to identify a suitable replacement. I'm sure Ross would have preferred the laddie stayed and went for nowt at the end of the season.

That kind of stuff undermines the credibility of the series for me. A very glossed over version of the reality of running a football team.
Methven has stepped down but has a share in the club still

[givescotlandfreedom]

Agree with the comments about Methven seeming a right tosser from his arrogance, giving the staff a hard time, to his patronising of the support that he didn't seem to have any respect for.
In the cup final though he was right and it's bothered me too how deep we sit at times holding a result and lose it.

[Heisenberg]

Agree with the comments about Methven seeming a right tosser from his arrogance, giving the staff a hard time, to his patronising of the support that he didn't seem to have any respect for.
In the cup final though he was right and it's bothered me too how deep we sit at times holding a result and lose it.

I think that’s been an issue with us all season and isn’t something that started under Ross, although he didn’t manage to rectify it. The amount of points we’ve dropped from winning positions is ridiculous. Not sure what it comes down to.

I felt sorry for the two Sunderland centre halves (Flanagan and Baldwin?) as they seemed nice enough but were massively out of their depth at such a big club.

[hibbydog]

Methven can’t help being posh. It’s his background which he didn’t choose and we shouldn’t hold it against him.

But it’s the swearing, disrespecting his staff, bullying and arrogance. Totally not on and he should be thoroughly ashamed.

Stewart Donald also didn’t come across well. Asking the manager how much a player is worth, then buying him for £3m after being told not to go above £1.2m!

The pair of them suddenly become experts in football tactics when the tram is losing at half time, despite zero notable experience of playing or managing?

Very poor.

It was good tv however. If only to remind everyone how not to behave.

Humility and respect are great qualities for anyone in the workplace and life in general.

[hibsbollah]

Methven can’t help being posh. It’s his background which he didn’t choose and we shouldn’t hold it against him.

But it’s the swearing, disrespecting his staff, bullying and arrogance. Totally not on and he should be thoroughly ashamed.

Stewart Donald also didn’t come across well. Asking the manager how much a player is worth, then buying him for £3m after being told not to go above £1.2m!

The pair of them suddenly become experts in football tactics when the tram is losing at half time, despite zero notable experience of playing or managing?

Very poor.

It was good tv however. If only to remind everyone how not to behave.

Humility and respect are great qualities for anyone in the workplace and life in general.

You could tell they were both going to be complete dicks when they appeared at the end of the last series.

I've enjoyed this series less. There is less one on one engagement with the players, which was the real eye opener last time round. It's as if they've wised up to the PR consequences of coming across like Jack Rodwell.

Also, Honeyman is their Lewis Stevenson.

[Pretty Boy]

You could tell they were both going to be complete dicks when they appeared at the end of the last series.

I've enjoyed this series less. There is less one on one engagement with the players, which was the real eye opener last time round. It's as if they've wised up to the PR consequences of coming across like Jack Rodwell.

Also, Honeyman is their Lewis Stevenson.

Was their Lewis Stevenson.

He plays for Hull now.

[JimBHibees]

You could tell they were both going to be complete dicks when they appeared at the end of the last series.

I've enjoyed this series less. There is less one on one engagement with the players, which was the real eye opener last time round. It's as if they've wised up to the PR consequences of coming across like Jack Rodwell.

Also, Honeyman is their Lewis Stevenson.

Agree much less engagement with players and coaches which devalues it a bit. Have probably realised the mistake of doing the show in the first place and are just seeing out the contract.

[hibbydog]

You could tell they were both going to be complete dicks when they appeared at the end of the last series.

I've enjoyed this series less. There is less one on one engagement with the players, which was the real eye opener last time round. It's as if they've wised up to the PR consequences of coming across like Jack Rodwell.

Also, Honeyman is their Lewis Stevenson.

That’s a good shout. The first series was more focussed on the community, the players and the fans so much easier to relate to.

This one was dominated by the owners and their egos,

Plums

[JimBHibees]

Was at Sunderland for 14 years before he moved to Hull.

[CMurdoch]

They didn't have a lot of quality in their team and the loss of Maja was simply madness.
McGeady seemed to be their only other game changer and he was hampered by injury at the business end of the season.
The last of the big earners, Oviedo and Cattermole didn't seem to make much impression either.
The owner seemed a decent guy but blinked under pressure in January and blew it.

[Tomsk]

They didn't have a lot of quality in their team and the loss of Maja was the final straw.
McGeady seemed to be the only other game changer and he was hampered by injury at the business end of their season.
The last of the big earners, Oviedo and Cattermole didn't seem to make much impression either.
The owner seemed a decent guy but blinked under pressure and blew it.


I thought that too. The Maja/Gigg situation exposed his lack of experience and understanding. He ended up making a bad situation worse and ultimately the club paid the price.

Was there a practical solution? Doubt it. The problems were systemic. With a set-up designed for the Premiership they were trying to operate on League One revenues. Methven's behaviour left a sour taste at times but he was consistently accurate in his assessments, not least when he observed that a change of culture was needed as the cheques from Ellis Short were no longer forthcoming.

Fascinating series. But still only a snapshot I imagine of everything that goes on.

[007]

Methven can’t help being posh. It’s his background which he didn’t choose and we shouldn’t hold it against him.

But it’s the swearing, disrespecting his staff, bullying and arrogance. Totally not on and he should be thoroughly ashamed.

Stewart Donald also didn’t come across well. Asking the manager how much a player is worth, then buying him for £3m after being told not to go above £1.2m!

The pair of them suddenly become experts in football tactics when the tram is losing at half time, despite zero notable experience of playing or managing?

Very poor.

It was good tv however. If only to remind everyone how not to behave.

Humility and respect are great qualities for anyone in the workplace and life in general.

I have sympathy for Stewart Donald, they needed 2 strikers and were going to end up with none. If he hadn't got Griggs they would have been hugely criticised. He acknowledged he'd paid over the odds but was backing his manager. Imagine the outrage on here if Doidge was to leave and wasn't replaced. I get that they could have insisted Maja's sees out his contract however they could easily have ended up like Rangers with Morelos who I reckon wanted away in January but wasn't allowed to and has thrown the toys out the pram.

[Carheenlea]

Getting through the second season, and noted that we hadn’t seen a lot of the taxi driver who was good value in the first season. Had to laugh when there he was at Nigel Farage’s Brexit March to Westminster departed with a couple of hundred North East brexiteers in pissing rain!

[hibby rae]

I have sympathy for Stewart Donald, they needed 2 strikers and were going to end up with none. If he hadn't got Griggs they would have been hugely criticised. He acknowledged he'd paid over the odds but was backing his manager. Imagine the outrage on here if Doidge was to leave and wasn't replaced. I get that they could have insisted Maja's sees out his contract however they could easily have ended up like Rangers with Morelos who I reckon wanted away in January but wasn't allowed to and has thrown the toys out the pram.

I think it's a case of appealing to the player. 'Stay with us for the rest of the season, feel free to sign a pre-season with Bordeaux now, you have our blessing. Can even chuck in a raise for the remainder of the contract if need be.'

Instead they panic and accept peanuts which is then wiped by spending three times more on a player the manager doesn't even seem arsed about having.

[Since452]

The worst thing they did was punt Jack Ross. Did a good job all things considered. A perfect example of be careful what you wish for. Ended up with Phil Parkinson and seriously doubt they'd have gone up if the season had played out normally

[hibby rae]

Methven can’t help being posh. It’s his background which he didn’t choose and we shouldn’t hold it against him.

But it’s the swearing, disrespecting his staff, bullying and arrogance. Totally not on and he should be thoroughly ashamed.

Stewart Donald also didn’t come across well. Asking the manager how much a player is worth, then buying him for £3m after being told not to go above £1.2m!

The pair of them suddenly become experts in football tactics when the tram is losing at half time, despite zero notable experience of playing or managing?

Very poor.

It was good tv however. If only to remind everyone how not to behave.

Humility and respect are great qualities for anyone in the workplace and life in general.

I'd say his bavkground probably feeds into that behaviour. Eton, Oxford etc. Lived in a bubble his whole life, probably with a sense of entitlement. Devoid of empathy and unable to understand the challenges their staff face.

One example, they are both complaining the marketing team aren't rising to the challenge, not taking responsibility etc.

They are told they are asking them to do something they've never done before, with no support, never been given the responsibility but that doesn't seem to sink in.

[Robbo6-2]

Donald tried to fling Jack Ross under a bus a few times about Greg. He said he was jacks choice in a interview with fans

[Since452]

Donald tried to fling Jack Ross under a bus a few times about Greg. He said he was jacks choice in a interview with fans

Yeah noticed that. The fact they *****ed 3/4 million on him when Ross said not to go higher than 1.2 was a joke. He'd probably have had Grigg and another couple in to compliment him. Not *****ed all the money they didn't even have on him. Must have infuriated Ross. And to replace a boy who was scoring for fun. Makes it even worse.

[tamig]

I haven’t watched a single episode of this yet so would you say it would be easy enough to dive straight into series two without watching the first?

[Northernhibee]

I haven’t watched a single episode of this yet so would you say it would be easy enough to dive straight into series two without watching the first?

I just leapt into season 2 and don't feel like I've missed anything.

[tamig]

I just leapt into season 2 and don't feel like I've missed anything.

Cheers bud. I’ll start it tonight.

[Smartie]

I haven’t watched a single episode of this yet so would you say it would be easy enough to dive straight into series two without watching the first?

I’ve not watched all of series 2 yet but I probably enjoyed the first series better.

If I were you I’d watch series 1 first, it’s good and sets the scene for the second series.

In my opinion most of the harm at Sunderland was done prior to these 2 series / seasons. It just shows you how hard it is to turn around a struggling football club - and how mental English football is with all the money swishing around at the top.

[Pretty Boy]

I haven’t watched a single episode of this yet so would you say it would be easy enough to dive straight into series two without watching the first?

I'd watch series 1 first. It's better.

Also the annoying taxi driver stating he'd be satisfied if they knock 4 or 5 past Celtic in a friendly, a game they proceeded to lose 5-0, helped temper any sympathy I may have found myself having for them. Typically arrogant English lower league fan with the 'farmers league' mentality.

[Coach Jon]

Its good to have something football orientated to watch at this time.
For me the second series covers the same angles as the first, mainly following the season from Boardroom and Terracing perspective.
The big let down is that there have obviously been too many restrictions imposed on access to certain areas, the dressing room being the main one, which would have elevated this series to a better watch.

[hibby rae]

I haven’t watched a single episode of this yet so would you say it would be easy enough to dive straight into series two without watching the first?

Yeah easy to pick up. All you need to know is there is a change in ownership, manager and squad. The only people really in it from the first series are some of the fans.

[hibby rae]

Its good to have something football orientated to watch at this time.
For me the second series covers the same angles as the first, mainly following the season from Boardroom and Terracing perspective.
The big let down is that there have obviously been too many restrictions imposed on access to certain areas, the dressing room being the main one, which would have elevated this series to a better watch.

That may have been Jack Ross saying he doesn't want his players distracted though.

[hibbydog]

I'd say his bavkground probably feeds into that behaviour. Eton, Oxford etc. Lived in a bubble his whole life, probably with a sense of entitlement. Devoid of empathy and unable to understand the challenges their staff face.

One example, they are both complaining the marketing team aren't rising to the challenge, not taking responsibility etc.

They are told they are asking them to do something they've never done before, with no support, never been given the responsibility but that doesn't seem to sink in.

Aye, that’s the thing. Many business leaders are so driven towards reaching their goal that they’ll happily leave bodies in their wake. A good manager would take the time to try and understand what it’s like for their staff and support them through the changes.

Instead, they charge their way through things, upsetting people on the way and made royal fools of themselves in the process.

Alan Sugar ain’t going to be calling them any time soon.

[Jones28]

I haven’t watched a single episode of this yet so would you say it would be easy enough to dive straight into series two without watching the first?

Just watch the whole lot. The first series is easy viewing and pretty gripping.

[Carheenlea]

Just watch the whole lot. The first series is easy viewing and pretty gripping.

Yes, I’d recommend the same. Gives you a better understanding of the timeline after their calamitous attempt to jump straight back up in the first series and the expectation and belief of the supporters that they’d do just that without too much fuss. Watching the tribulations unfold over that previous season gives good context to where the club found themselves at the start of the season in series 2.

[RIP Bestie]

I get that Methven lacked quite a bit in people skills but that shouldn't detract from his business accumen. He was able to paint a pretty concise picture about the financial state the club was in when they took over and what had to be done to improve the situation.
He had obviously already given a presentation about what their vision was and the changes that were required. Then in a meeting with key members of the administritive team, not one of them could tell him details of key elements of that presentation, ie. How much the club was paying in interest. That would have seriously pissed me off.
In the situation the club was in it was important that they had people buying into their vision. Then in a later scene we seen the Head of Commercial girl rolling her eyes at him. They had to realise that drastic change was required and it seemed few of them were able to think outside the box. That would have been very frustrating. I honestly don't think many of that team would have outlasted me if I were in his position.

[18Craig75]

I get that Methven lacked quite a bit in people skills but that shouldn't detract from his business accumen. He was able to paint a pretty concise picture about the financial state the club was in when they took over and what had to be done to improve the situation.
He had obviously already given a presentation about what their vision was and the changes that were required. Then in a meeting with key members of the administritive team, not one of them could tell him details of key elements of that presentation, ie. How much the club was paying in interest. That would have seriously pissed me off.
In the situation the club was in it was important that they had people buying into their vision. Then in a later scene we seen the Head of Commercial girl rolling her eyes at him. They had to realise that drastic change was required and it seemed few of them were able to think outside the box. That would have been very frustrating. I honestly don't think many of that team would have outlasted me if I were in his position.

Similarly, there was a scene where he’d just delivered another presentation or set out a vision for moving forward. He then invited employees to ask questions. Not one of them could muster up anything! Instead all just sat there looking glaikit like bored school children.

[chrisski33]

Hopefully there will be a third series however i dont think Sunderland will get out of league one for a while

[Peevemor]

Hopefully there will be a third series however i dont think Sunderland will get out of league one for a whileEven if there is it will be totally eclipsed by the goings-on down Tynecastle way.

[Since452]

Hopefully there will be a third series however i dont think Sunderland will get out of league one for a while

They aren't filming this season apparently

[Auckland Hibs]

They aren't filming this season apparently

Presume that Sunderland being paid for access by Netflix?

[Bobby's Cinema]

Watched the first 2 episodes of this but not getting the appeal and ended up bored. Just the same as watching any other dvd from any other teams season, which would never happen

[Danderhall Hibs]

I get that Methven lacked quite a bit in people skills but that shouldn't detract from his business accumen. He was able to paint a pretty concise picture about the financial state the club was in when they took over and what had to be done to improve the situation.
He had obviously already given a presentation about what their vision was and the changes that were required. Then in a meeting with key members of the administritive team, not one of them could tell him details of key elements of that presentation, ie. How much the club was paying in interest. That would have seriously pissed me off.
In the situation the club was in it was important that they had people buying into their vision. Then in a later scene we seen the Head of Commercial girl rolling her eyes at him. They had to realise that drastic change was required and it seemed few of them were able to think outside the box. That would have been very frustrating. I honestly don't think many of that team would have outlasted me if I were in his position.

:agree: looked like someone who knew what needed to change but had a team of amateurs to help him do it.

He was sharp with them and at times rude but I got the impression he didn’t rate them.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I have sympathy for Stewart Donald, they needed 2 strikers and were going to end up with none. If he hadn't got Griggs they would have been hugely criticised. He acknowledged he'd paid over the odds but was backing his manager. Imagine the outrage on here if Doidge was to leave and wasn't replaced. I get that they could have insisted Maja's sees out his contract however they could easily have ended up like Rangers with Morelos who I reckon wanted away in January but wasn't allowed to and has thrown the toys out the pram.

I wonder how the conversation with Jack Ross and LD or RG went back in January about the lad from Dunfermline?

Maybe the difference was our owner didn’t flap about and panic buy a player had told him not to pay anymore than he thought he was worth.

[RyeSloan]

I get that Methven lacked quite a bit in people skills but that shouldn't detract from his business accumen. He was able to paint a pretty concise picture about the financial state the club was in when they took over and what had to be done to improve the situation.
He had obviously already given a presentation about what their vision was and the changes that were required. Then in a meeting with key members of the administritive team, not one of them could tell him details of key elements of that presentation, ie. How much the club was paying in interest. That would have seriously pissed me off.
In the situation the club was in it was important that they had people buying into their vision. Then in a later scene we seen the Head of Commercial girl rolling her eyes at him. They had to realise that drastic change was required and it seemed few of them were able to think outside the box. That would have been very frustrating. I honestly don't think many of that team would have outlasted me if I were in his position.

I thought similar to be honest.

The scene where the Corp woman was sitting rolling her eyes and playing with her hair when Methven was trying to drum home the importance of what they were doing or it was more job losses was almost unbelievable.

I’d have been tempted to sack her there and then.

[Yorkshire HFC]

I thought similar to be honest.

The scene where the Corp woman was sitting rolling her eyes and playing with her hair when Methven was trying to drum home the importance of what they were doing or it was more job losses was almost unbelievable.

I’d have been tempted to sack her there and then.

I didn't think the bosses were that bad to be honest. Donald came across as someone just living the dream - maybe a bit out of his depth, but with his heart in the right place.

Methven seemed to know what he was doing, even if he went a bit over the top at times. But if these were the only ugly moments the cameras caught after filming for 52 weeks, then I'm sure the producers were a bit disappointed.

The staff they inherited, both the players and on the admin side, were certainly not Premier League standard, and I could understand their frustrations.

They claimed to have turned them around from losing £20m to breaking even - if true, then I'd say they did a pretty good job.

But I'd agree with others who have said that series 1 was better than series 2.

[flash]

Never mind Sunderland get Maradona in Mexico on. Great story about the greatest player in most of our lifetimes managing a club in the drug heartland of Mexico.

[Green Reaper]

Never mind Sunderland get Maradona in Mexico on. Great story about the greatest player in most of our lifetimes managing a club in the drug heartland of Mexico.

Is that on Netflix?

[JimBHibees]

Is that on Netflix?

Yes it is. Very watchable.

[Green Reaper]

Yes it is. Very watchable.

Cheers JB, will give it a go 😁

[Winston Ingram]

I get that Methven lacked quite a bit in people skills but that shouldn't detract from his business accumen. He was able to paint a pretty concise picture about the financial state the club was in when they took over and what had to be done to improve the situation.
He had obviously already given a presentation about what their vision was and the changes that were required. Then in a meeting with key members of the administritive team, not one of them could tell him details of key elements of that presentation, ie. How much the club was paying in interest. That would have seriously pissed me off.
In the situation the club was in it was important that they had people buying into their vision. Then in a later scene we seen the Head of Commercial girl rolling her eyes at him. They had to realise that drastic change was required and it seemed few of them were able to think outside the box. That would have been very frustrating. I honestly don't think many of that team would have outlasted me if I were in his position.

Agreed. The Head of Commercial looked hopeless

[Jones28]

Defenders really being hung out to dry.

[The 90+2]

Great series. Found myself gutted for them but at the same time delighted Ross is here. They would have went up if they didn’t sell that player in January and overspend on Grigg. The ceo was a right ****, Donald seems a really good guy though.

[Bishop Hibee]

I get that Methven lacked quite a bit in people skills but that shouldn't detract from his business accumen. He was able to paint a pretty concise picture about the financial state the club was in when they took over and what had to be done to improve the situation.
He had obviously already given a presentation about what their vision was and the changes that were required. Then in a meeting with key members of the administritive team, not one of them could tell him details of key elements of that presentation, ie. How much the club was paying in interest. That would have seriously pissed me off.
In the situation the club was in it was important that they had people buying into their vision. Then in a later scene we seen the Head of Commercial girl rolling her eyes at him. They had to realise that drastic change was required and it seemed few of them were able to think outside the box. That would have been very frustrating. I honestly don't think many of that team would have outlasted me if I were in his position.

I agree. He was an arse in some ways but an astute businessman in what’s ultimately capitalism in the raw. Having lived down there and seen the passion people have for football, it’s a disgrace how poor both Sunderland and Newcastle have been down the years. One quibble was the way it was made out that Sunderland fans only came from Sunderland. I’d argue 30-40% of their ST holders come from other parts of County Durham.

Enjoyable series but it’s run its course I think.

[Jones28]

Great series. Found myself gutted for them but at the same time delighted Ross is here. They would have went up if they didn’t sell that player in January and overspend on Grigg. The ceo was a right ****, Donald seems a really good guy though.

He was a dick, but he was a dick who was right about most things.

[The 90+2]

He was a dick, but he was a dick who was right about most things.

Mainly, yeah. He just seemed like a no it all prick and got the impression he didn’t like Ross much so I took it personal 😁

[Smartie]

One thing it has made me appreciate a bit more is how well Hibs did to turn things around so quickly when we were relegated.

I mean, 3 years in the Championship was a disaster, but there were reasons for that.

To let Stubbs start with a fairly clean slate and with the freshness of Dempster coming in at that time really was a blessing, but tbh by Christmas of our first season down we were already starting to look like a different club.

Sunderland had bumbled along low down in the Premier League for years and some of the financial (and other) decisions taken around that time were absolutely eye-watering. As they were relegated, then relegated again, those mistakes cast a huge and costly shadow. Even though League One isn't the highest standard, it was always going to be a massive job to turn a club that was basically a disaster area from top to bottom into one that could not just compete on the park but also pay its way off it. Getting 30,000 fans in in the third tier helps, but the job they had to sort it all was massive.

Ultimately it's all about the football and that's all fans see. The football hasn't been great and there have been plenty of poor results against poor teams and that gets the natives restless, natives who are expecting to win at that level.

They weren't far off going back up and made a decent fist of it but were typically unlucky when it mattered most. They then didn't do what they needed to do last summer and Jack Ross found himself out of a job - when in reality he wasn't the main problem.

Donald and Methven bit off more than they could chew and they haven't had the resolve required when the going got a bit tough this season. Donald might yet come good and I think he's done a lot more good than bad (a view not generally shared by Sunderland fans) but they need to get out of tat league quickly. They've also now shed the biggest earners and should have been getting rid of the poor habits behind the scenes so they should now be getting ready to go up. Or rather, running out of valid excuses not to.

[The 90+2]

One thing it has made me appreciate a bit more is how well Hibs did to turn things around so quickly when we were relegated.

I mean, 3 years in the Championship was a disaster, but there were reasons for that.

To let Stubbs start with a fairly clean slate and with the freshness of Dempster coming in at that time really was a blessing, but tbh by Christmas of our first season down we were already starting to look like a different club.

Sunderland had bumbled along low down in the Premier League for years and some of the financial (and other) decisions taken around that time were absolutely eye-watering. As they were relegated, then relegated again, those mistakes cast a huge and costly shadow. Even though League One isn't the highest standard, it was always going to be a massive job to turn a club that was basically a disaster area from top to bottom into one that could not just compete on the park but also pay its way off it. Getting 30,000 fans in in the third tier helps, but the job they had to sort it all was massive.

Ultimately it's all about the football and that's all fans see. The football hasn't been great and there have been plenty of poor results against poor teams and that gets the natives restless, natives who are expecting to win at that level.

They weren't far off going back up and made a decent fist of it but were typically unlucky when it mattered most. They then didn't do what they needed to do last summer and Jack Ross found himself out of a job - when in reality he wasn't the main problem.

Donald and Methven bit off more than they could chew and they haven't had the resolve required when the going got a bit tough this season. Donald might yet come good and I think he's done a lot more good than bad (a view not generally shared by Sunderland fans) but they need to get out of tat league quickly. They've also now shed the biggest earners and should have been getting rid of the poor habits behind the scenes so they should now be getting ready to go up. Or rather, running out of valid excuses not to.

Terrific review 😁👍

[BILLYHIBS]

Mainly, yeah. He just seemed like a no it all prick and got the impression he didn’t like Ross much so I took it personal 😁

I don’t think he liked anyone north of Watford condescending bassa :greengrin

[cammy1969]

With hindsight shudda just run down his contract taken the hit and would have been in the Championship this season

Yeah total madness sold him for a million should kept him let go free in summer woulda probably went up bad business from them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TimeForHeroes16]

It was the part when Donald said

“ I got a phone call from jack saying josh had emptied his locker and said he’d been sold” then roughly by word Donald says “ I’ve not sold him this is the first I’ve heard “

absolute bull***** he would have given it the stamp of approval

[Tyler Durden]

The footage where he is obnoxious towards his female assistant on the touchline at the boxing day game where he demands the attendance figure was beyond the pale. If I was her husband or father I would be fuming and looking to chin him. Disrespectful in the extreme. Imagine how he behaves towards staff when the camera isn't rolling.
Been rationing myself and will watch the last 2 episodes tonight.

There was nothing wrong with Methvens behaviour there at all IMO. Her comment that “if we get the number we get it...” summed her up. She didn’t seem to understand and she wasn’t delivering on her role. He wasn’t obnoxious or bullying but they had a time critical job and he needed to be direct.

Really nothing wrong with Methven’s approach based on the footage we see. He gives the commercial team a challenge - with a month advance notice. Asks for their feedback and input on several occasions. Then has to hold their hands throughout to get the task over the line. The team appear to contribute very little and one of them is removed afterwards. Fairly classic performance management and that girl wasn’t in the right job.

[Peevemor]

I got the impression that during the meetings/presentations the staff present had heard it all before off camera, thus their total lack of response.

[Smartie]

There was nothing wrong with Methvens behaviour there at all IMO. Her comment that “if we get the number we get it...” summed her up. She didn’t seem to understand and she wasn’t delivering on her role. He wasn’t obnoxious or bullying but they had a time critical job and he needed to be direct.

Really nothing wrong with Methven’s approach based on the footage we see. He gives the commercial team a challenge - with a month advance notice. Asks for their feedback and input on several occasions. Then has to hold their hands throughout to get the task over the line. The team appear to contribute very little and one of them is removed afterwards. Fairly classic performance management and that girl wasn’t in the right job.

Obviously we don't know the exact context but I didn't think that was the time or the place to be having that conversation.

Being able to announce the big crowd was clearly important to him - so they should have had a plan in place days, weeks before the game to ensure they had that number to be announced. That girl should have known the significance of it and should have been grafting, making sure everyone involved in counting tickets knew their job.

At every election Sunderland takes great pride in being one of he first places to return their results - they run like a well oiled machine, it's impressive to see. They manage it by being organised in advance.

When he starts swearing on the touchline during the match, it's either because he hasn't made it clear enough what he was looking for or because she's fallen hopelessly short and tbh it looked like the former to me.

[Michael]

Methvan was quite an entertaining character. He had a lot of ideas and he made things happen - but he did alienate the commercial staff. The way the film was cut it made the commercial team look a bit mediocre - but I think we only get part of the story here. I think Methvan got too emotional at times though and could act a bit unprofessionally.

The January transfer window was a disaster, and Donald has to take the blame for that. He made big mistakes: selling his only strikers before getting a replacement and panic buying Grigg for £3m. He should have put someone in charge of this stuff that understood how football negotiation works.

Overall this was a great series - enjoyed every episode. The only thing that would have improved it is access to the team talks etc.

[thebausburst]

5 goals in 38 games, Will Grigg is no longer on fire. Aidan McGeady looked great though and to think how many folks on here were moaning about being linked with him.

[BILLYHIBS]

Been mentioned on other threads but anyone looking for more of the same and is bored in lockdown can do worse than take in Maradona in Mexico defo worth a watch to get your footie fix

:top marks

[CockneyRebel]

Never mind Sunderland get Maradona in Mexico on. Great story about the greatest player in most of our lifetimes managing a club in the drug heartland of Mexico.


No can do I'm afraid - despite him being one of the best footballers I have ever seen I will never forget/forgive the "hand of God" incident or his nauseating lapping up of the compliments over his cheating.
I know up here all ABE's love the whole episode but just think what if it had happened to the Scotland team - I don't think that the love-in would be quite so spontaneous.















2

[sleeping giant]

Methvan was quite an entertaining character. He had a lot of ideas and he made things happen - but he did alienate the commercial staff. The way the film was cut it made the commercial team look a bit mediocre - but I think we only get part of the story here. I think Methvan got too emotional at times though and could act a bit unprofessionally.

The January transfer window was a disaster, and Donald has to take the blame for that. He made big mistakes: selling his only strikers before getting a replacement and panic buying Grigg for £3m. He should have put someone in charge of this stuff that understood how football negotiation works.

Overall this was a great series - enjoyed every episode. The only thing that would have improved it is access to the team talks etc.

Both the owners were very unproffesional.
Slagging off the manager in the directors box for everyone to hear.
Absolute fannies.

[superfurryhibby]

[QUOTE=gloryhunter;6139182]No can do I'm afraid - despite him being one of the best footballers I have ever seen I will never forget/forgive the "hand of God" incident or his nauseating lapping up of the compliments over his cheating.
I know up here all ABE's love the whole episode but just think what if it had happened to the Scotland team - I don't think that the love-in would be quite so spontaneous.

Aye, what if's, what if's.

Sounds like you were emotionally invested, personally I loved it. Swings and roundabouts in the great scheme of things. England gifted a World Cup with a goal that never was and a clincher where their fans were on the pitch because they thought it was all over.

Maradona was a god of football, the England hand of god incident was a mere footnote in his legend.

[CockneyRebel]

[QUOTE=gloryhunter;6139182]No can do I'm afraid - despite him being one of the best footballers I have ever seen I will never forget/forgive the "hand of God" incident or his nauseating lapping up of the compliments over his cheating.
I know up here all ABE's love the whole episode but just think what if it had happened to the Scotland team - I don't think that the love-in would be quite so spontaneous.

Aye, what if's, what if's.

Sounds like you were emotionally invested, personally I loved it. Swings and roundabouts in the great scheme of things. England gifted a World Cup with a goal that never was and a clincher where their fans were on the pitch because they thought it was all over.

Maradona was a god of football, the England hand of god incident was a mere footnote in his legend.


And you reckon I'm emotionally invested? ABE your slip is showing.

[The 90+2]

I don’t think he liked anyone north of Watford condescending bassa :greengrin

True 😁

[BoomtownHibees]

No can do I'm afraid - despite him being one of the best footballers I have ever seen I will never forget/forgive the "hand of God" incident or his nauseating lapping up of the compliments over his cheating.
I know up here all ABE's love the whole episode but just think what if it had happened to the Scotland team - I don't think that the love-in would be quite so spontaneous.
2

Of course things are better when they happen to your rivals. If this had happened to Hearts in a cup final, I’d be dancing for joy. If it happened to Hibs, no dancing

[CMurdoch]

Of course things are better when they happen to your rivals. If this had happened to Hearts in a cup final, I’d be dancing for joy. If it happened to Hibs, no dancing

:greengrin

[DstN75]

Methvan was quite an entertaining character. He had a lot of ideas and he made things happen - but he did alienate the commercial staff. The way the film was cut it made the commercial team look a bit mediocre - but I think we only get part of the story here. I think Methvan got too emotional at times though and could act a bit unprofessionally.

The January transfer window was a disaster, and Donald has to take the blame for that. He made big mistakes: selling his only strikers before getting a replacement and panic buying Grigg for £3m. He should have put someone in charge of this stuff that understood how football negotiation works.

Overall this was a great series - enjoyed every episode. The only thing that would have improved it is access to the team talks etc.

I found the jan transfer bit the most interesting part. I couldn't see a single decision they made that at the time i would have disagreed with if i was a fan.

[BILLYHIBS]

I found the jan transfer bit the most interesting part. I couldn't see a single decision they made that at the time i would have disagreed with if i was a fan.

:confused:

Including selling their on fire striker for a knock down price 1m and buying a dud for 3m when your Manager who is supposed to be the football expert has told you he is not even worth 1.25m and not to do it?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but shudda told Maja he was going nowhere paid him what he was worth by offering a new contract and they would now be back in the Championship pretty sure I read somewhere he was happy to stay and that his new Manager in Belgium didn’t even know who he was and initially didn’t play him as 1-1.5m is chicken feed to them

Might be wrong but if I was a Sunderland fan watching that I would be ragin

Rant over

[RIP Bestie]

:confused:

Including selling their on fire striker for a knock down price 1m and buying a dud for 3m when your Manager who is supposed to be the football expert has told you he is not even worth 1.25m and not to do it?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but shudda told Maja he was going nowhere paid him what he was worth by offering a new contract and they would now be back in the Championship pretty sure I read somewhere he was happy to stay and that his new Manager in Belgium didn’t even know who he was and initially didn’t play him as 1-1.5m is chicken feed to them

Might be wrong but if I was a Sunderland fan watching that I would be ragin

Rant over

The boy was listenining to his agent. If the board had have stopped the move you can bet the agent would have arranged a pre contract agreement and advised the player to play in a way to avoid injury and not to show loyalty to a club that tried to scupper his move.

[BILLYHIBS]

The boy was listenining to his agent. If the board had have stopped the move you can bet the agent would have arranged a pre contract agreement and advised the player to play in a way to avoid injury and not to show loyalty to a club that tried to scupper his move.

Difficult to disagree with any of that but at least get them all sat round the table which did not happen

They sold the goose that laid the golden egg for a song

[JimBHibees]

Difficult to disagree with any of that but at least get them all sat round the table which did not happen

They sold the goose that laid the golden egg for a song

You would assume the club would have had talks with the player and agent or at the very least tried to. Would also assume these talks would have not been filmed.

[BILLYHIBS]

You would assume the club would have had talks with the player and agent or at the very least tried to. Would also assume these talks would have not been filmed.
Agree but it looked as though the boy was sold from under Jack Ross

You would also like to think you would get a replacement in first

Other clubs knew Sunderland were desperate which meant they could name their price

The simple math of selling a player for 1m buying a dud for 3m does not compute better surely to get into the championship plus I do not think Donald is strapped for cash

As you say the show was hugely edited we did not see the whole picture and hindsight is a wonderful thing

[JimBHibees]

Agree but it looked as though the boy was sold from under Jack Ross

You would also like to think you would get a replacement in first

Other clubs knew Sunderland were desperate which meant they could name their price

The simple math of selling a player for 1m buying a dud for 3m does not compute better surely to get into the championship plus I do not think Donald is strapped for cash

As you say the show was hugely edited we did not see the whole picture and hindsight is a wonderful thing

You would have thought they would have had a few options rather than just Grigg. Even getting a promising premier league striker on loan would have been an option.

[BILLYHIBS]

You would have thought they would have had a few options rather than just Grigg. Even getting a promising premier league striker on loan would have been an option.

Christian Doidge :greengrin

[Michael]

I found the jan transfer bit the most interesting part. I couldn't see a single decision they made that at the time i would have disagreed with if i was a fan.

The problem is that once he'd sold their strikers he had lost all of his negotiating power. You could see how Wigan were just waiting for him to offer stupid money - which he did.

If he had signed strikers first he would have got much better value in the market.

[JimBHibees]

Christian Doidge :greengrin

Was thinking more EPL :greengrin

[RoYO!]

Obviously we don't know the exact context but I didn't think that was the time or the place to be having that conversation.

Being able to announce the big crowd was clearly important to him - so they should have had a plan in place days, weeks before the game to ensure they had that number to be announced. That girl should have known the significance of it and should have been grafting, making sure everyone involved in counting tickets knew their job.

At every election Sunderland takes great pride in being one of he first places to return their results - they run like a well oiled machine, it's impressive to see. They manage it by being organised in advance.

When he starts swearing on the touchline during the match, it's either because he hasn't made it clear enough what he was looking for or because she's fallen hopelessly short and tbh it looked like the former to me.

Exactly. Poor management. Fear is not going to motivate, it's going to scare people into getting it done. Fine, people may say, but there are other ways to get it done without compromising someone's mental health and wellbeing.

If a task isn't being carried out correctly the manager at the top should be saying "what could I have done better" to learn for next time and to convey their message and strategy clearer.

[weecounty hibby]

The decision to sell their top scorer for £1m probably cost them way more than that. They would likely have been promoted if they'd kept him. Totally stupid decision

[Carheenlea]

Been mentioned on other threads but anyone looking for more of the same and is bored in lockdown can do worse than take in Maradona in Mexico defo worth a watch to get your footie fix

:top marks

I’ve watched a couple, and while I like it I’d rather they just subtitled it rather than voiceover. I quite like to hear people speaking in their native tongue on these things and voiceovers feel intrusive. Won’t stop me watching it though!

[BILLYHIBS]

I’ve watched a couple, and while I like it I’d rather they just subtitled it rather than voiceover. I quite like to hear people speaking in their native tongue on these things and voiceovers feel intrusive. Won’t stop me watching it though!

Watched it a wee while ago and always thought it was sub title

Anyway I felt it was an interesting watch Maradona in a Management role trying to get a lower league team up through the leagues fly on the wall warts and all

[RIP Bestie]

Exactly. Poor management. Fear is not going to motivate, it's going to scare people into getting it done. Fine, people may say, but there are other ways to get it done without compromising someone's mental health and wellbeing.

If a task isn't being carried out correctly the manager at the top should be saying "what could I have done better" to learn for next time and to convey their message and strategy clearer.

I understand the principles of good management and motivation. The programme clearly alluded to at least 3 different occasions where the strategy and need for change was being delivered to the management team. There is a responsibility that needs to be taken by those in under management to seek clafification to something they don't understand or to question the strategy and offer up some kind of idea of what their department can deliver. It didn't seem that anything was coming from any of the management teams. As a director or chairman that would frustrate the hell out of me. No one wants to be a dictator but you need the people around you to be pro active. There was no evidence of any pro activity or drive there, just people who seemed to want to be left alone to do what they had always done. In my mind it seems right they should have been afraid. Afraid of losing their jobs.

[SingaporeHibs]

For me it looked like 2 relatively smart guys who took a massive punt to buy a big Football club that was on its knees, both in Football terms and financially. They wanted to turn the club around, get them promoted in one go to then try and punt the club on again potentially making a small fortune in the process (the latter part wasn’t expressed but IMO that was the idea). Neither of them had the personal wealth so to achieve the goal they required the club to change dramatically and get with their ideas quickly. Unfortunately for them the management of the club over the previous years was so bad it left huge problems. Not just the huge p&l deficit (enormous salaries) but also a large number of staff who didn’t seem to have the the skill set or desire to help make it happen. They would have known about the financials but likely didn’t appreciate how hard cutting the cost base would be or understand the apathy that seemed to exist amongst some of the staff.
Yes, I agree that some of the footage made me cringe but what stood out was the huge amount of pressure these guys had put themselves under. I think some of their behaviour mentioned in previous posts was purely a result of the pressure they found themselves under. Financially way out their depth and the weight of a city on their shoulders. I think they understood the responsibility they held.
They also made mistakes along the way and their inexperience at that level of Football showed, particularly during the transfer window.
JR was clearly chucked under the bus over the strikers sale, which was highlighted when JR only found out the striker was offski when he turned up at the training ground to find the lad collecting his stuff.
From the Football side of it, you could see there was a big improvement with JR in charge. Yet despite being the better side they struggled to see games out. Again, I put that down to what happened before. Even when the team were playing better the players clearly had self doubt about their ability to kick on during the 2nd half and win enough games. Remember TM and his upward spiral. There were too many players that had been on a dramatic downward spiral and some of the others clearly couldn’t handle the pressure. Grigg for me found himself in a position of being a £3m main man, couldn’t handle it.
Was a really interesting watch for me.

[we are hibs]

Diego Maradona is a fine upstanding man who scored a wonderful headed goal in 1986. God bless diego 🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷

[Since452]

Could never take to Maradona. Strangely can't take to Messi either. Maybe it's an Argentina thing!

Watched the Paul Gascoigne thing on Netflix. Frightening how good he was. Especially before his two horror injuries. Wish he'd gone to Man United rather than Spurs. Spurs are a great club but Ferguson would have sorted the lad out. Despise Rangers but was a privelage to see him play at Easter Road. Even though I was young I remember it well. World class.

[The 90+2]

Could never take to Maradona. Strangely can't take to Messi either. Maybe it's an Argentina thing!

Watched the Paul Gascoigne thing on Netflix. Frightening how good he was. Especially before his two horror injuries. Wish he'd gone to Man United rather than Spurs. Spurs are a great club but Ferguson would have sorted the lad out.

What’s the Gazza thing? When I search it only comes up Bobby Robson.

[Since452]

What’s the Gazza thing? When I search it only comes up Bobby Robson.

Just type in "Gascoigne" mate

[The 90+2]

Just type in "Gascoigne" mate

Cheers 👍

[Since452]

Cheers 👍

Decent watch

[oo2be]

Could never take to Maradona. Strangely can't take to Messi either. Maybe it's an Argentina thing!

Watched the Paul Gascoigne thing on Netflix. Frightening how good he was. Especially before his two horror injuries. Wish he'd gone to Man United rather than Spurs. Spurs are a great club but Ferguson would have sorted the lad out. Despise Rangers but was a privelage to see him play at Easter Road. Even though I was young I remember it well. World class.

Aye, your union jack trolling is showing = couldn't tale to Maradona or Messi but you're a football fan hahahahahahaha we're all bored.....shows

[Since452]

Aye, your union jack trolling is showing = couldn't tale to Maradona or Messi but you're a football fan hahahahahahaha we're all bored.....shows

WATP no surrender 🇬🇧 😉

[Carheenlea]

Watched it a wee while ago and always thought it was sub title

Anyway I felt it was an interesting watch Maradona in a Management role trying to get a lower league team up through the leagues fly on the wall warts and all

When I returned to it to watch some more I checked the menu and noted I had audio as English, so clicked it to Spanish original with English subtitles and made for a far better watch. Just the last episode to watch - really enjoyed it.

[BILLYHIBS]

When I returned to it to watch some more I checked the menu and noted I had audio as English, so clicked it to Spanish orig Iona last and English subtitles and made for a far better watch. Just the last episode to watch - really enjoyed it.
:thumbsup:

[Steve-O]

When I returned to it to watch some more I checked the menu and noted I had audio as English, so clicked it to Spanish original with English subtitles and made for a far better watch. Just the last episode to watch - really enjoyed it.

I did that too. Something dubbed in English is even more distracting than subtitles I find. I liked the Maradona show.

[Steve-O]

There was nothing wrong with Methvens behaviour there at all IMO. Her comment that “if we get the number we get it...” summed her up. She didn’t seem to understand and she wasn’t delivering on her role. He wasn’t obnoxious or bullying but they had a time critical job and he needed to be direct.

Really nothing wrong with Methven’s approach based on the footage we see. He gives the commercial team a challenge - with a month advance notice. Asks for their feedback and input on several occasions. Then has to hold their hands throughout to get the task over the line. The team appear to contribute very little and one of them is removed afterwards. Fairly classic performance management and that girl wasn’t in the right job.

With the caveat that we don’t know exactly how things were edited, I would agree. That female was a lazy pain in the arse who was in quite a high level role but just didn’t seem to give a monkeys.

Just finished tonight and not really sharing the optimism of others about Ross. Two trips to Wembley, two defeats after what appeared to be poor performances, too many draws and an apparent inability to play well for 90 minutes, particular second half. Isn’t that consistent with what we’ve seen from him so far? Sticking my neck out but I’m not convinced he quite has that “winner” instinct we need. I hope to be proven wrong

[Steve-O]

Might just be me but I'm slightly concerned that if Ross comes out well from it he might be headhunted from us. It's basically a no strings in-depth interview for other owners. That on top of changing our fortunes this season. Maybe just my negative thinking!

Don’t worry...

[BILLYHIBS]

With the caveat that we don’t know exactly how things were edited, I would agree. That female was a lazy pain in the arse who was in quite a high level role but just didn’t seem to give a monkeys.

Just finished tonight and not really sharing the optimism of others about Ross. Two trips to Wembley, two defeats after what appeared to be poor performances, too many draws and an apparent inability to play well for 90 minutes, particular second half. Isn’t that consistent with what we’ve seen from him so far? Sticking my neck out but I’m not convinced he quite has that “winner” instinct we need. I hope to be proven wrong

Agree I was hoping to see more of his management style his training and tactics man management and his approach to games analysis of the opposition strengths and weaknesses prematch talks and how he responds to changing circumstances on the pitch

The fans complained couldnae score ( after he lost his star striker) couldnae defend and too many draws but he did get them to Wembley twice and he did improve us post Hecky but I hear what you are saying

I still think we have to give him a full season and a chance to bring his own players in but his budget may well now be restricted

As others have said heavily edited access restricted and not as good as Series one imho

[Tomsk]

With the caveat that we don’t know exactly how things were edited, I would agree. That female was a lazy pain in the arse who was in quite a high level role but just didn’t seem to give a monkeys.

Just finished tonight and not really sharing the optimism of others about Ross. Two trips to Wembley, two defeats after what appeared to be poor performances, too many draws and an apparent inability to play well for 90 minutes, particular second half. Isn’t that consistent with what we’ve seen from him so far? Sticking my neck out but I’m not convinced he quite has that “winner” instinct we need. I hope to be proven wrong

If you have a wee gander through the Sunderland fan's forums you will see they have absolutely no doubts about Jack Ross's management qualities. About the best you will read there is he was given a bum deal by the owners. Most of them haven't a good word to say about Jack.

STID is inconclusive because we see next to nothing of Jack actually managing or coaching. Clearly, he has some good players in his squad but it also looks like he has a very thin squad and some obvious weaknesses in defence and up front to contend with.

Nonetheless, like you, I have some nagging doubts about Jack having now watched STID back to the front. I hope my belief that the problems at Sunderland are deep-rooted and systemic and just can't be solved in a season or two is right, and that Ross is indeed the manager we need and want.

[The 90+2]

With the caveat that we don’t know exactly how things were edited, I would agree. That female was a lazy pain in the arse who was in quite a high level role but just didn’t seem to give a monkeys.

Just finished tonight and not really sharing the optimism of others about Ross. Two trips to Wembley, two defeats after what appeared to be poor performances, too many draws and an apparent inability to play well for 90 minutes, particular second half. Isn’t that consistent with what we’ve seen from him so far? Sticking my neck out but I’m not convinced he quite has that “winner” instinct we need. I hope to be proven wrong

His best player was taken away from him in January and replaced with someone he didn’t really want.

Add in the fact he took over a club who went back to back relegation and cost cut all over the shop with some expensive flops still kicking about.

[Smartie]

I have a few reservations about Ross following his time at Sunderland but none that have arisen from this documentary.

His managerial career pre-Sunderland that led to him getting a big job, a very demanding one, was exemplary.

There won't be a third series of STID but that would have been the one that would have been most telling about Jack - last summer and early 19/20 until he got the sack. Serious questions need to be asked about the summer transfer business that saw them fail - again - to secure an adequate replacement for Maja. Was that his fault, or the board's? The early pattern was the same as the previous season - not enough goals and too many draws. This was the season when the excuses were gone, the expensive flops were gone, he should have had his stamp on his own team and be properly going for it.

My main concern is that there is a feeling amongst the Sunderland fans that he didn't have certain players in good physical condition - amongst them McNulty, who made a decentish start but came back from an early injury miles overweight. Chris Maguire was also out of shape and under a new manager (and a good few months of a different exercise regime and diet) has been a different player this year. They had been doing much better from Christmas though to their last 3 games or so when they started to look like they'd push for the title only to struggle again and fall out the playoff places. Charlie Wyke had being doing quite well for them up front during that decent spell, and they've missed him being out injured.

TBH the Jack Ross I've seen at Hibs isn't really like the Sunderland one. I don't think he's tentative, he doesn't seem to shrink back and defend narrow leads. His January transfer business was good and it addressed many of our weaknesses, albeit only short term loan fixes. He's tried different formations, used subs well and given how much Heckingbottom struggled to get results with the same players, he's probably done as well as any of us could have expected with that group of players. I'd also say that he's done well to recognise those of Heckingbottom's signings that he could get something out of (Newell, Doidge etc) and quickly get shot of those that he couldn't (Vela).

[Garymcl]

Just finished watching stid one thing I’ve noticed the gaffer and Aiden mcgeadey seem to have a good relationship

[Steve-O]

I have a few reservations about Ross following his time at Sunderland but none that have arisen from this documentary.

His managerial career pre-Sunderland that led to him getting a big job, a very demanding one, was exemplary.

There won't be a third series of STID but that would have been the one that would have been most telling about Jack - last summer and early 19/20 until he got the sack. Serious questions need to be asked about the summer transfer business that saw them fail - again - to secure an adequate replacement for Maja. Was that his fault, or the board's? The early pattern was the same as the previous season - not enough goals and too many draws. This was the season when the excuses were gone, the expensive flops were gone, he should have had his stamp on his own team and be properly going for it.

My main concern is that there is a feeling amongst the Sunderland fans that he didn't have certain players in good physical condition - amongst them McNulty, who made a decentish start but came back from an early injury miles overweight. Chris Maguire was also out of shape and under a new manager (and a good few months of a different exercise regime and diet) has been a different player this year. They had been doing much better from Christmas though to their last 3 games or so when they started to look like they'd push for the title only to struggle again and fall out the playoff places. Charlie Wyke had being doing quite well for them up front during that decent spell, and they've missed him being out injured.

TBH the Jack Ross I've seen at Hibs isn't really like the Sunderland one. I don't think he's tentative, he doesn't seem to shrink back and defend narrow leads. His January transfer business was good and it addressed many of our weaknesses, albeit only short term loan fixes. He's tried different formations, used subs well and given how much Heckingbottom struggled to get results with the same players, he's probably done as well as any of us could have expected with that group of players. I'd also say that he's done well to recognise those of Heckingbottom's signings that he could get something out of (Newell, Doidge etc) and quickly get shot of those that he couldn't (Vela).

Has fitness been an issue during his time at Hibs? Question for those who have seen Hibs more than me this season. A definite theme from the show was the team constantly dropping off second half and losing late goals. Usually that is down to fitness.

[Steve-O]

His best player was taken away from him in January and replaced with someone he didn’t really want.

Add in the fact he took over a club who went back to back relegation and cost cut all over the shop with some expensive flops still kicking about.

Losing the goalscorer was key, yes, but is it papering over cracks when one player is scoring all the goals? We’ve seen that with Griffiths at Hibs for example. When he wasn’t adequately replaced we got relegated!

Also, Ross did want Grigg, just not at the price they paid.

[Coco Bryce]

Losing the goalscorer was key, yes, but is it papering over cracks when one player is scoring all the goals? We’ve seen that with Griffiths at Hibs for example. When he wasn’t adequately replaced we got relegated!

Also, Ross did want Grigg, just not at the price they paid.

So Jack's signing was a complete dud regardless of price.

Just as well he doesn't sign our players :greengrin

[Tomsk]

I have a few reservations about Ross following his time at Sunderland but none that have arisen from this documentary.

His managerial career pre-Sunderland that led to him getting a big job, a very demanding one, was exemplary.

There won't be a third series of STID but that would have been the one that would have been most telling about Jack - last summer and early 19/20 until he got the sack. Serious questions need to be asked about the summer transfer business that saw them fail - again - to secure an adequate replacement for Maja. Was that his fault, or the board's? The early pattern was the same as the previous season - not enough goals and too many draws. This was the season when the excuses were gone, the expensive flops were gone, he should have had his stamp on his own team and be properly going for it.

My main concern is that there is a feeling amongst the Sunderland fans that he didn't have certain players in good physical condition - amongst them McNulty, who made a decentish start but came back from an early injury miles overweight. Chris Maguire was also out of shape and under a new manager (and a good few months of a different exercise regime and diet) has been a different player this year. They had been doing much better from Christmas though to their last 3 games or so when they started to look like they'd push for the title only to struggle again and fall out the playoff places. Charlie Wyke had being doing quite well for them up front during that decent spell, and they've missed him being out injured.

TBH the Jack Ross I've seen at Hibs isn't really like the Sunderland one. I don't think he's tentative, he doesn't seem to shrink back and defend narrow leads. His January transfer business was good and it addressed many of our weaknesses, albeit only short term loan fixes. He's tried different formations, used subs well and given how much Heckingbottom struggled to get results with the same players, he's probably done as well as any of us could have expected with that group of players. I'd also say that he's done well to recognise those of Heckingbottom's signings that he could get something out of (Newell, Doidge etc) and quickly get shot of those that he couldn't (Vela).


Reading between the lines on the Sunderland forums it would seem a small first-team squad was at least partially the cause of the drop-off in energy levels in the season where they lost the play-off final. Some fans felt that chasing the Mickey Mouse Cup thing which they lost in the final didn't help. They appeared to have played 61 competitive games across the season, which is a lot especially when you're hitting play-off games at the end.

I note they lost only five league games all season but drew a ridiculous 19 times.

[The 90+2]

Losing the goalscorer was key, yes, but is it papering over cracks when one player is scoring all the goals? We’ve seen that with Griffiths at Hibs for example. When he wasn’t adequately replaced we got relegated!

Also, Ross did want Grigg, just not at the price they paid.

You can’t really say it was papering over cracks, he had a team playing to its strengths and that included, in main a player who was suited to that side scoring goals for them. He stopped the downfall also and it was stated time and time again all the cost cutting all over the shop which actually meant playing a 18year old up top.

Jack Ross, (he is our manager by the way) didn’t seem that fussed over Grigg at all. He had no say on his team being broken up in January though for a quick buck that backfired, that’s for sure.

[Smartie]

Has fitness been an issue during his time at Hibs? Question for those who have seen Hibs more than me this season. A definite theme from the show was the team constantly dropping off second half and losing late goals. Usually that is down to fitness.

No, I wouldn't say that fitness has been an issue during his time at Hibs.

The only raised eyebrow in that regard would probably be McNulty - he looked like he arrived overweight and hasn't really looked like he has improved his fitness whilst with us. He certain doesn't look as lean or as hungry as he did when he first joined for his first spell.

Jack Ross didn't do our pre-season though, and surely there is only so much negative impact that he would have had taking over somebody else's players if he genuinely was poor in the fitness department?

I do think this is a bit of a red herring, even if I did bring it up. :greengrin

[Smartie]

Reading between the lines on the Sunderland forums it would seem a small first-team squad was at least partially the cause of the drop-off in energy levels in the season where they lost the play-off final. Some fans felt that chasing the Mickey Mouse Cup thing which they lost in the final didn't help. They appeared to have played 61 competitive games across the season, which is a lot especially when you're hitting play-off games at the end.

I note they lost only five league games all season but drew a ridiculous 19 times.

They did have a thin squad, and with the Grigg signing not really working out they were left with a real lack of options up front.

That season they were still carrying a couple of big wages as well - Cattermole and Oviedo were still taking home scary wages. Whilst they both played fairly well that season, for players of that reputation, cv and wage you'd be looking for a great deal more than you got from them. Or more to the point - for what you were paying those 2 you could/ should probably have 4 or 5 players who would be the best in the division and guarantee you promotion.

Even during STID season two the club were paying heavily for mistakes made a good few years ago. The Maja decision doesn't even register on the same scale as the Jack Rodwell or Ricky Alvarez deals.

[The 90+2]

They did have a thin squad, and with the Grigg signing not really working out they were left with a real lack of options up front.

That season they were still carrying a couple of big wages as well - Cattermole and Oviedo were still taking home scary wages. Whilst they both played fairly well that season, for players of that reputation, cv and wage you'd be looking for a great deal more than you got from them. Or more to the point - for what you were paying those 2 you could/ should probably have 4 or 5 players who would be the best in the division and guarantee you promotion.

Even during STID season two the club were paying heavily for mistakes made a good few years ago.

You could have just agreed with me tbh :greengrin

[Smartie]

You could have just agreed with me tbh :greengrin

That would be too easy.

I have time on my hands.

You were right btw.

[Tomsk]

They did have a thin squad, and with the Grigg signing not really working out they were left with a real lack of options up front.

That season they were still carrying a couple of big wages as well - Cattermole and Oviedo were still taking home scary wages. Whilst they both played fairly well that season, for players of that reputation, cv and wage you'd be looking for a great deal more than you got from them. Or more to the point - for what you were paying those 2 you could/ should probably have 4 or 5 players who would be the best in the division and guarantee you promotion.

Even during STID season two the club were paying heavily for mistakes made a good few years ago. The Maja decision doesn't even register on the same scale as the Jack Rodwell or Ricky Alvarez deals.

This is fundamental - with the emphasis on mental. :wink:

[The 90+2]

That would be too easy.

I have time on my hands.

You were right btw.

True and true :greengrin as are you, and I could have said the same for me 👍

[Steve-O]

You can’t really say it was papering over cracks, he had a team playing to its strengths and that included, in main a player who was suited to that side scoring goals for them. He stopped the downfall also and it was stated time and time again all the cost cutting all over the shop which actually meant playing a 18year old up top.

Jack Ross, (he is our manager by the way) didn’t seem that fussed over Grigg at all. He had no say on his team being broken up in January though for a quick buck that backfired, that’s for sure.

I think Grigg was identified as Ross’s number one target (according to what Donald said) but he was obviously saying he only valued him at about £1m.

Also not sure Maja was sold for a quick buck - he clearly wanted away and was out of contract in the summer. They offered him what he wanted but he left anyway and they got as much of a fee as they could in the circumstances. Ross wasn’t “consulted” because there was bugger all he could’ve done anyway.

[Tyler Durden]

I think Grigg was identified as Ross’s number one target (according to what Donald said) but he was obviously saying he only valued him at about £1m.

Also not sure Maja was sold for a quick buck - he clearly wanted away and was out of contract in the summer. They offered him what he wanted but he left anyway and they got as much of a fee as they could in the circumstances. Ross wasn’t “consulted” because there was bugger all he could’ve done anyway.

Hindsight is 20/20 but they had a few better options. They could have let him sign a pre contract with Bordeaux and kept him til the summer. Sure he may have been disruptive but he didn’t seem the type did he?

Secondly given they knew the agent was liable to punt him abroad, they could’ve been more pro-active in offering him to English teams on the basis that he was loaned back for the rest of the season. The player would’ve been happy knowing he’s guaranteed big money and Sunderland still have their star player.

They knew what was coming and just let it happen regardless. Naive in the extreme

[BILLYHIBS]

Stewart Donald resigns as Sunderland Chairman stating new blood is needed to get the ‘Black Cats’ back into the Championship

Now what ever happened to that fly on the wall Documentary about the Hearts relegation season?

Got my popcorn at the ready

[The 90+2]

Stewart Donald resigns as Sunderland Chairman stating new blood is needed to get the ‘Black Cats’ back into the Championship

Now what ever happened to that fly on the wall Documentary about the Hearts relegation season?

Got my popcorn at the ready

He seemed like a good guy tbh.

[BILLYHIBS]

He seemed like a good guy tbh.

He did

Noticed his big pal went before him

[HendoDelivered]

He did

Noticed his big pal went before him

Charlie Methven? Still has shares I think.

[BILLYHIBS]

Charlie Methven? Still has shares I think.

👍🏿

[Jones28]

Stewart Donald resigns as Sunderland Chairman stating new blood is needed to get the ‘Black Cats’ back into the Championship

Now what ever happened to that fly on the wall Documentary about the Hearts relegation season?

Got my popcorn at the ready

Came across as someone who genuinely wanted to do well with Sunderland but showed a lot of naivety when he chucked money at Griggs. If that pattern has continued it’s no wonder he wants out.

I didn’t find the second series as good as the first, the other bloke is a total tit.

[BILLYHIBS]

Came across as someone who genuinely wanted to do well with Sunderland but showed a lot of naivety when he chucked money at Griggs. If that pattern has continued it’s no wonder he wants out.

I didn’t find the second series as good as the first, the other bloke is a total tit.
Agree

[Speedy]

He seemed like a good guy tbh.

Totally out of his depth

[Pretty Boy]

I rewatched a bit of Sunderland Til I die recently and actually felt sorry for both Donald and Methven.

They inherited a shambles and it was blindingly obvious a lot of the staff were just coasting along happy to pick up a wage. Methven was painted as a bit of a cock in the 1st or 2nd episode when he went a bit David Brent in a meeting. However he quite correctly pointed out that he had provided figures and a briefing days before and no one had bothered their arse to read it. No wonder he was pissed off. That was a theme throughout.

I've no idea what the situation is at Sunderland now but if Donald has managed to slash the wage bill and control the debt then he has probably left them in a better state than he found them.

[Tomsk]

I rewatched a bit of Sunderland Til I die recently and actually felt sorry for both Donald and Methven.

They inherited a shambles and it was blindingly obvious a lot of the staff were just coasting along happy to pick up a wage. Methven was painted as a bit of a cock in the 1st or 2nd episode when he went a bit David Brent in a meeting. However he quite correctly pointed out that he had provided figures and a briefing days before and no one had bothered their arse to read it. No wonder he was pissed off. That was a theme throughout.

I've no idea what the situation is at Sunderland now but if Donald has managed to slash the wage bill and control the debt then he has probably left them in a better state than he found them.

I don't know if I would go as far as to say I feel sorry for them. Their failings professionally and personally were of their own making. Donald while apparently well meaning was in over his head and would have been better served taking his wife's advice and getting out while the going was good. The problem was he just didn't know his own limitations.

Of the two of them Methven gets a wee bit sympathy. I can't help feel the film makers did a bit of a hatchet job on him, which in fairness because of his arrogant personality was shooting fish in a barrel. That said, his judgement was generally sound, he was professional, brought energy and ideas and gave the deadbeats at the club a chance to get on board with him before he rightly binned them. I must say if it was a choice between him and Martin Bain I would pick Charlie every day of the week. I thought Bain exemplified everything that was wrong at the club.

[Clarence]

I rewatched a bit of Sunderland Til I die recently and actually felt sorry for both Donald and Methven.

They inherited a shambles and it was blindingly obvious a lot of the staff were just coasting along happy to pick up a wage. Methven was painted as a bit of a cock in the 1st or 2nd episode when he went a bit David Brent in a meeting. However he quite correctly pointed out that he had provided figures and a briefing days before and no one had bothered their arse to read it. No wonder he was pissed off. That was a theme throughout.

I've no idea what the situation is at Sunderland now but if Donald has managed to slash the wage bill and control the debt then he has probably left them in a better state than he found them.

Yeah I felt that way too about the staff. You would think that the gravity of the situation would make them want to run through walls to get the club back up the leagues but they were pretty passive and all seemed to be wallowing rather than taking action. Agree that Charlie went a bit Brent which was probably a mistake in front of your average Maccam.

[Greenbeard]

I get that Methven lacked quite a bit in people skills but that shouldn't detract from his business accumen. He was able to paint a pretty concise picture about the financial state the club was in when they took over and what had to be done to improve the situation.
He had obviously already given a presentation about what their vision was and the changes that were required. Then in a meeting with key members of the administritive team, not one of them could tell him details of key elements of that presentation, ie. How much the club was paying in interest. That would have seriously pissed me off.
In the situation the club was in it was important that they had people buying into their vision. Then in a later scene we seen the Head of Commercial girl rolling her eyes at him. They had to realise that drastic change was required and it seemed few of them were able to think outside the box. That would have been very frustrating. I honestly don't think many of that team would have outlasted me if I were in his position.
Only recently got Netflix and this one one of the first things I watched.
RE the above, she wouldn't have rolled her eyes at Methven had he not been such a tosser. Have had the misfortune to come across a few of this PR/Marketing type in business. Full of themselves and full of bull for short term tick-the-box self-glorification on their pedestal. The very fact that Methven's Wikipedia page carries the following warning says it all really (i.e. he's written some of the self-promoting p1sh himself:


A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest) with its subject. (April 2020)




This article's tone or style may not reflect the encyclopedic tone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles#Tone) used on Wikipedia. (April 2020)




This article may contain wording that promotes the subject through exaggeration of unnoteworthy facts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipuffery). (April 2020)

[0762]

Only recently got Netflix and this one one of the first things I watched.
RE the above, she wouldn't have rolled her eyes at Methven had he not been such a tosser. Have had the misfortune to come across a few of this PR/Marketing type in business. Full of themselves and full of bull for short term tick-the-box self-glorification on their pedestal. The very fact that Methven's Wikipedia page carries the following warning says it all really (i.e. he's written some of the self-promoting p1sh himself:


A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest) with its subject. (April 2020)




This article's tone or style may not reflect the encyclopedic tone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles#Tone) used on Wikipedia. (April 2020)




This article may contain wording that promotes the subject through exaggeration of unnoteworthy facts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipuffery). (April 2020)





Inclined to agree with you about Methven - came across as a complete tosser. Used to work with someone exactly like that. Described himself as a "visionary"! In reality delivered nothing and the company emptied him but not before he cost the company a small fortune.

Stewart Donald however may come over as a caring chairman but think his partner hints at the story that wasn't told properly on Netflix. She said people were calling him out and was almost pleading with him to get out. He was in fact exposed by the Times - "Quote - It emerged last year that Donald financed the £39.6 million purchase from Ellis Short in May 2018 by using broadcast income that is paid to clubs relegated from the Premier League. While Donald disputed the precise figures, evidence suggested he used as little as £5 million of his own money to complete the initial takeover of a club he was actively looking to sell on within a year". That plan has failed now not once but twice and if reports are correct they're looking for £37.6m from any potential buyer. Outrageous if these guys get away with this.

It's as dodgy as Craig Whyte funding his buying of Rangers using Ticketus money from advanced season ticket money.
From Netflix it's clear Donald and Ruthven couldn't run a raffle let alone a football club.
People like that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a football Club. I've no allegiance to Sunderland but you can't half feel sorry for their supporters as these guys are taking them for a ride.

[Greenbeard]

Inclined to agree with you about Methven - came across as a complete tosser. Used to work with someone exactly like that. Described himself as a "visionary"! In reality delivered nothing and the company emptied him but not before he cost the company a small fortune.

Stewart Donald however may come over as a caring chairman but think his partner hints at the story that wasn't told properly on Netflix. She said people were calling him out and was almost pleading with him to get out. He was in fact exposed by the Times - "Quote - It emerged last year that Donald financed the £39.6 million purchase from Ellis Short in May 2018 by using broadcast income that is paid to clubs relegated from the Premier League. While Donald disputed the precise figures, evidence suggested he used as little as £5 million of his own money to complete the initial takeover of a club he was actively looking to sell on within a year". That plan has failed now not once but twice and if reports are correct they're looking for £37.6m from any potential buyer. Outrageous if these guys get away with this.

It's as dodgy as Craig Whyte funding his buying of Rangers using Ticketus money from advanced season ticket money.
From Netflix it's clear Donald and Ruthven couldn't run a raffle let alone a football club.
People like that shouldn't be aloud anywhere near a football Club. I've no allegiance to Sunderland but you can't half feel sorry for their supporters as these guys are taking them for a ride.
Nail-head hit. The immediate and obviously phoney behaviour at matches and with the fans, acting as if he was a dyed-in-the-wool mackem, is typical of Methven's sort. Dressing things up to look different from reality. No different to a dodgy car salesman respraying a rust-bucket to dupe some poor unsuspecting customer into parting with their harder and more genuinely earned cash. Makes me puke. Got past experience of a "new regime" coming in and basically telling all the long-serving and hard-working staff they have been 5hit for too long and things are going to change, then they find out it's not as quick or as easy a fix as they thought, especially with staff who have been told they are 5hit often enough and loud enough that they now don't give one.