Hibs Mid/Late 70s Decline

[Keith_M]

I'm looking for some info/memories from some of our more 'mature' fellow Fans.


Hibs had an impressive spell in the early to mid 70s, when we were genuine title contenders and mostly finished in the top two or three.

Then from about 1976, we suffered a slump where we initially had a spell as a mid table team, followed by relegation and a long spell in the 80s where we seemed to regularly be in danger of being relegated again.

From 1976, the attendances seem to have plummeted as well and saw us eventually playing in front of average crowds of about 7-8,000 in the early/mid 80s.


What are your memories of this time, particularly the late 70s, and what was it that led to such a drastic change in fortunes?

[superfurryhibby]

I'm looking for some info/memories from some of our more 'mature' fellow Fans.


Hibs had an impressive spell in the early to mid 70s, when we were genuine title contenders and mostly finished in the top two or three.

Then from about 1976, we suffered a slump where we initially had a spell as a mid table team, followed by relegation and a long spell in the 80s where we seemed to regularly be in danger of being relegated again.

From 1976, the attendances seem to have plummeted as well and saw us eventually playing in front of average crowds of about 7-8,000 in the early/mid 80s.


What are your memories of this time, particularly the late 70s, and what was it that led to such a drastic change in fortunes?

Some observations:

The team had been strong for five years or more before Turnbull came in. He was building on the good work of Shankly and McFarlane before him.


I think Tom Hart, ahem, lost heart a bit. By the end of the decade all assets had been sold and replaced by players of inferior standard.

Eddie Turnbull's initial genius in the transfer market began to wane. Starting with the purchase of Joe Harper. The team needed strengthened in goals and at centre half. We didn't need to tinker with a strike force that were absolutely deadly. The subsequent sale of Cropley, purchase of Ian Munro, then swap deal for involving Munro and the two Hun huddies. Joe Ward and cash for Bremner wasn't great either. History tells us that was a seriously flawed move too.

Looking back, I was only a boy, but there was tremendous talent coming through at Hibs in that early-mid 70's era, homegrown like Bobby Smith, or bought in, like Ally McLeod and Iain Munro. Seems to me like there was a flawed judgement which sabotaged the ambitions of the club and prevented them sustaining and building on what had gone before.

I think Turnbull and Hart had fallen out by the mid-later 70's, probably not something widely acknowledged, but I seem to recall this hinted at in Turnbull's book.

A few ex players have also said that Turnbull's man management style wasn't always wonderful for morale. I do wonder what must have gone on behind the scenes. The gentlemen of yesteryear aren't as willing to speak publicly about the game as those guys of more recent times.

[Tomsk]

Some observations:

The team had been strong for five years or more before Turnbull came in. He was building on the good work of Shankly and McFarlane before him.


I think Tom Hart, ahem, lost heart a bit. By the end of the decade all assets had been sold and replaced by players of inferior standard.

Eddie Turnbull's initial genius in the transfer market began to wane. Starting with the purchase of Joe Harper. The team needed strengthened in goals and at centre half. We didn't need to tinker with a strike force that were absolutely deadly. The subsequent sale of Cropley, purchase of Ian Munro, then swap deal for involving Munro and the two Hun huddies. Joe Ward and cash for Bremner wasn't great either. History tells us that was a seriously flawed move too.

Looking back, I was only a boy, but there was tremendous talent coming through at Hibs in that early-mid 70's era, homegrown like Bobby Smith, or bought in, like Ally McLeod and Iain Munro. Seems to me like there was a flawed judgement which sabotaged the ambitions of the club and prevented them sustaining and building on what had gone before.


You might also have mentioned the sale of a certain P Stanton. It may be sacrilegious to say so but in the latter half of the decade Ned's judgement was very hit and miss at best.

Attendances in the 1980s were not helped by the style of football played by Bertie Auld following Turnbull's departure, some popular but poor appointments in Pat and Blackley and under-investment in the playing staff and ground. Hibs could always unearth talented players - Collins, Rice, Kane - but just never enough of them to make a team. Then Miller arrived and left us yearning for the free-flowing attacking good old days of Bertie Auld.

[Roxyhibee]

Ooh a number of reasons, in a rough chronology

Most of the highly skilled Tornadoes were already at Hibs when Turnbull arrived, so a top coach like him just had to get them playing at the top of their game. He did immediately sign Edwards and Gordon (I think..) but after that with the exception of Bremner, Turnbull could never replace the standard of player across the park which he found already there on his arrival.

We reached incredible heights very quickly, within 18 months of him arriving, so it maybe became an unrealistic pressure for that incredible football to continue for several seasons.

Brownlies leg break.

Hadjuk Split 3 Hibs 0 (agg 5-4) QF of Cup Winners Cup - no exaggeration to say we could have lifted a European trophy that season but things went very wrong both at ER and Split and after Turnbull questioned their bottle, the relationship was damaged forever, despite having a couple of decent seasons after that.

He let some fans’ heroes go to other clubs circa 74/75 as he increasingly became a bit power crazy over the players.

Hearts went yoyo for a few seasons down to the second division, and imo I think that lowered our standards as we had constant bragging rights without even having to play a derby.

The relationship between Turnbull and Hart got increasingly fraught in the final few seasons of his tenure.

Nothing lasts forever in football, even then, and with the exception of Ferguson at Man U, even big clubs signing high quality players these days rarely get a sustained honeymoon period with a new manager for more than 3 or 4 seasons.

[superfurryhibby]

You might also have mentioned the sale of a certain P Stanton. It may be sacrilegious to say so but in the latter half of the decade Ned's judgement was very hit and miss at best.

Attendances in the 1980s were not helped by the style of football played by Bertie Auld following Turnbull's departure, some popular but poor appointments in Pat and Blackley and under-investment in the playing staff and ground. Hibs could always unearth talented players - Collins, Rice, Kane - but just never enough of them to make a team. Then Miller arrived and left us yearning for the free-flowing attacking good old days of Bertie Auld.

Aye, the swap for Stanton for McNamara. It was a huge shock to me. No one was to know that Pat's career would be curtailed by injury by injury so soon after. But he certainly was a huge loss in the centre of the park.

Shades going to Dundee too, for Bobby Hutchison, another falling out with the boss behind that one too?

[Kato]

One factor often overlooked was Turnbull's ill health. It wasn't even widely publicised at the time apart from when he had to relinquish first team duties for a spell when Wilson Humphries took over (unbeaten in 12-14 matches whilst he picked the team). Psychologically Turnbull was spent by '76-77, he never actually fully recovered until the '90's.

Also Turnbull's astuteness, and the players he inherited, meant that his early success was achieved for a song - when solid investment was required it was never really met by Hart. Selling players for pretty big sums but not really re-investing.

[JimBHibees]

One factor often overlooked was Turnbull's ill health. It wasn't even widely publicised at the time apart from when he had to relinquish first team duties for a spell when Wilson Humphries took over (unbeaten in 12-14 matches whilst he picked the team). Psychologically Turnbull was spent by '76-77, he never actually fully recovered until the '90's.

Also Turnbull's astuteness, and the players he inherited, meant that his early success was achieved for a song - when solid investment was required it was never really met by Hart. Selling players for pretty big sums but not really re-investing.

We certainly fell off a cliff team wise. A really poor transfer policy usually meaning a very popular player leaving and nowhere near the quality replacing them. Scott and Fyfe kind of summed it up but so did Joe Ward dear oh dear. To go from the most entertaining team in Scotland to relegation was absolutely criminal to be honest.

[Since452]

Turnbull era was before my time but it seems every really good period/manager we've had has been followed by an equally bad spell. End of McLeish reign was grim as was Lennons. Seem to remember us being pretty poor before Mowbray parted for WBA as well.

[Tom Hart RIP]

From the summer of 1972 to New year's Day 1973 Hibs were magnificent. We won the Drybrough Cup then the League Cup, hammered Sporting Lisbon and had a two goal lead in the first leg of the European Cup Winners Cup and beat Hearts 7-0 at Tynecastle.

After that game Tom Hart was quoted in the papers predicting that we would win the league and Cup Winners Cup and most Hibs fans believed him.

We played East Fife on 6/1/73 and John Brownlie, the best right back in Europe at the time suffered a broken leg and Alex Edwards who had been kicked every time he got the ball was booked for throwing the ball away in disgust which resulted in a 56 day (eight week) suspension and the Tornadoes never played together again.

The Joe Harper move was an ambitious one, breaking the Scottish transfer record but in hindsight it was the wrong move and although Joe had a very good scoring record, the team was broken up to accommodate him.

Although we still brought in some good players such as Ally MacLeod, Ian Munro, Jackie MacNamara, George Stewart and Ralph Callachan along with youngsters like Des Bremner, Bobby Smith and Tony Higgins, the team never seemed to click.

Much as I loved Eddie Turnbull some of his signings later on were poor, ie Ally Scott and Graham Fyfe from Rangers for Munro, Bobby Hutchison from Dundee for Erich and subsequently Joe Ward from Aston Villa as part of the Des Bremner deal.

The attendances dropped as fans compared the new players to the Tornadoes although we were mainly near the top of the league and still regularly qualified for Europe.

[BILLYHIBS]

Agree with all of the above

Turnbulls Tornadoes were the best HIBS team I have ever seen and I think ever will see in my lifetime

A well drilled well coached football machine every man new their place in the system and they played the same system every game if a move broke down they would simply start again knowing they had enough fire power and football to beat every team in the league

Their football in full flow was a joy to behold

Towards the end of the decade while not the force of old Eddie Turnbulls swan song was the 1979 Scottish Cup Final where HIBS took Rangers to two replays and were unlucky not to win

It was sad watching Eddie Turnbulls demise as he was a fantastic coach not so much man manager but he broke up the Tornadoes too early imho

[greenginger]

T
One factor often overlooked was Turnbull's ill health. It wasn't even widely publicised at the time apart from when he had to relinquish first team duties for a spell when Wilson Humphries took over (unbeaten in 12-14 matches whilst he picked the team). Psychologically Turnbull was spent by '76-77, he never actually fully recovered until the '90's.

Also Turnbull's astuteness, and the players he inherited, meant that his early success was achieved for a song - when solid investment was required it was never really met by Hart. Selling players for pretty big sums but not really re-investing.


I think the loss of Wilson Humphries was big blow to Turnbull and Hibs.

He was a PE teacher by profession and he was of an age he had to rejoin the teaching profession then or not at all.

Can’t blame the guy, after all guaranteed employment and a pension at the end of it was pretty rare in the 70’s.

[Tomsk]

Hibs struggled to deal with the commercial realities. Besides player sales, a poisoned chalice if ever there was one, money through the gate was the main and just about only real source of income in those days. This was long before meaningful TV deals, mass sponsorship and merchandising. Attendances were in free fall right throughout the Scottish game not helped by hooliganism, and Hibs got caught up in the torrent. The really had no option but to sell.

To be fair to Hart, he tried to find alternative income sources like shirt sponsorship and even a very crude an early form of electronic scoreboard. He also dabbled in the overseas market bringing in a couple of very accomplished Icelanders. All of these initiatives were ahead of their time, and of course met head on with the usual SFA bloody-mindedness. The soon put a stop to any ideas. It's little wonder Tom Hart lost the will. By the end of his time he was a shadow of his old sleeves-rolled-up, take-on-all-comers fighter who we knew and loved in the 1970s.

[Kato]

We played East Fife on 6/1/73 and John Brownlie, the best right back in Europe at the time suffered a broken leg and Alex Edwards who had been kicked every time he got the ball was booked for throwing the ball away in disgust which resulted in a 56 day (eight week) suspension and the Tornadoes never played together again..

Both Stanton and Blackley were given lengthy bans as well.

[Peevemor]

Hibs struggled to deal with the commercial realities. Besides player sales, a poisoned chalice if ever there was one, money through the gate was the main and just about only real source of income in those days. This was long before meaningful TV deals, mass sponsorship and merchandising. Attendances were in free fall right throughout the Scottish game not helped by hooliganism, and Hibs got caught up in the torrent. The really had no option but to sell.

To be fair to Hart, he tried to find alternative income sources like shirt sponsorship and even a very crude an early form of electronic scoreboard. He also dabbled in the overseas market bringing in a couple of very accomplished Icelanders. All of these initiatives were ahead of their time, and of course met head on with the usual SFA bloody-mindedness. The soon put a stop to any ideas. It's little wonder Tom Hart lost the will. By the end of his time he was a shadow of his old sleeves-rolled-up, take-on-all-comers fighter who we knew and loved in the 1970s.The scoreboard was Kenny Waugh.

I agree on the rest though.

[Deansy]

For me I've always believed the biggest cause of the downfall was Joe Harper's arrival - he just wasn't needed !. Our centre-forward at the time, Alan Gordon, was in line for the 'Golden Boot Of Europe' award (an award given to the highest scorer of that season) so there was no sense or logic behind it !. I've heard it said that Harper was brought without Turnbull's blessing or knowledge - maybe Hart just wanted to be the first chairman of a Scottish club to pay over £100,000 for a player ??. Either way, for me, Hibs just started to plummet after Harper arrived - apparently he wasn't easy to get on with either, One of the stories I've heard was that Harper, Blackley and 2-3 of the other 1st-team at the time, were in the 'Lea Rig' pub in Restalrig and an argument developed between Harper and Blackley that ended with Blackley sticking-the-nut on Harper, who went flying off the stool he was sitting on !. Whether that's true I don't know, I think, at the time, I only heard this story from 1-2 people ??. Maybe there were also other reasons for the downfall, but for me as a 11-12 year-old laddie at the time, I was convinced it was all Harper's fault !

[Kato]

The introduction of playing each other 4 times a season didn't help - (Tom Hart's idea!).

By the third round of fixtures the more agricultural teams had sussed out how to spoil the better teams play. Resulted in us buying the likes of Roy Barry to act as an enforcer.

I doubt anyone could claim that the game in Scotland has recovered as an entertainment spectacle. Some brutal teams have been successful - I include Jim McLean's Dundee Utd in that. Some great players and can't deny their success but jeez, they were as dull as dish-water to watch at times. It's notable their decline started when the pass-back to goalie was banned.

[Since452]

The introduction of playing each other 4 times a season didn't help - (Tom Hart's idea!).

By the third round of fixtures the more agricultural teams had sussed out how to spoil the better teams play. Resulted in us buying the likes of Roy Barry to act as an enforcer.

I doubt anyone could claim that the game in Scotland has recovered as an entertainment spectacle. Some brutal teams have been successful - I include Jim McLean's Dundee Utd in that. Some great players and can't deny their success but jeez, they were as dull as dish-water to watch at times. It's notable their decline started when the pass-back to goalie was banned.

I read recently McLean used to fine his players if they weren't entertaining enough during their glory days

[Kato]

I read recently McLean used to fine his players if they weren't entertaining enough during their glory days

They must have been walking out with about 25p a week then.:wink:

[Keith_M]

The introduction of playing each other 4 times a season didn't help - (Tom Hart's idea!).

By the third round of fixtures the more agricultural teams had sussed out how to spoil the better teams play. Resulted in us buying the likes of Roy Barry to act as an enforcer.

I doubt anyone could claim that the game in Scotland has recovered as an entertainment spectacle. Some brutal teams have been successful - I include Jim McLean's Dundee Utd in that. Some great players and can't deny their success but jeez, they were as dull as dish-water to watch at times. It's notable their decline started when the pass-back to goalie was banned.


If you look at Edinburgh derby attendances for the years immediately before the change to a 10 team league compared to immediately after, it's quite remarkable how much they dropped.

I expect it's a mixture of reasons, including the rise of hooliganism, but playing each other four games a season must have made a difference as well.

[brog]

One factor often overlooked was Turnbull's ill health. It wasn't even widely publicised at the time apart from when he had to relinquish first team duties for a spell when Wilson Humphries took over (unbeaten in 12-14 matches whilst he picked the team). Psychologically Turnbull was spent by '76-77, he never actually fully recovered until the '90's.

Also Turnbull's astuteness, and the players he inherited, meant that his early success was achieved for a song - when solid investment was required it was never really met by Hart. Selling players for pretty big sums but not really re-investing.

You make an excellent point there about Ned's health & as GreenGinger mentions the loss of Wilson Humphries. Ned was contrary & stubborn at the best of time & while his non existent man management worked when we had a great team, it bit us when we had a lesser team. I wouldn't really agree about the lack of investment from Tom H though, he backed Ned throughout in the transfer market & smashed the Scottish record when signing Joe Harper. Tom H was always innovative & he tried to make Ned the 1st ever Football Director but Ned took it badly & I believe that was the start of the falling out. Despite it all Ned did have one last chance of glory but a shocking refereeing decision (surprise) cost us the Cup in 1979. That final was our last huzzah & we were relegated the following season. That's a simplistic version but really Ned was not the same manager from about 1976 on.

[Bostonhibby]

From the summer of 1972 to New year's Day 1973 Hibs were magnificent. We won the Drybrough Cup then the League Cup, hammered Sporting Lisbon and had a two goal lead in the first leg of the European Cup Winners Cup and beat Hearts 7-0 at Tynecastle.

After that game Tom Hart was quoted in the papers predicting that we would win the league and Cup Winners Cup and most Hibs fans believed him.

We played East Fife on 6/1/73 and John Brownlie, the best right back in Europe at the time suffered a broken leg and Alex Edwards who had been kicked every time he got the ball was booked for throwing the ball away in disgust which resulted in a 56 day (eight week) suspension and the Tornadoes never played together again.

The Joe Harper move was an ambitious one, breaking the Scottish transfer record but in hindsight it was the wrong move and although Joe had a very good scoring record, the team was broken up to accommodate him.

Although we still brought in some good players such as Ally MacLeod, Ian Munro, Jackie MacNamara, George Stewart and Ralph Callachan along with youngsters like Des Bremner, Bobby Smith and Tony Higgins, the team never seemed to click.

Much as I loved Eddie Turnbull some of his signings later on were poor, ie Ally Scott and Graham Fyfe from Rangers for Munro, Bobby Hutchison from Dundee for Erich and subsequently Joe Ward from Aston Villa as part of the Des Bremner deal.

The attendances dropped as fans compared the new players to the Tornadoes although we were mainly near the top of the league and still regularly qualified for Europe.Been thinking about this one for a while and pretty much agree all of this, what times they were. I was probably too young and definitely too daft then to appreciate it all as I thought we'd just go on like that forever. Great days though.

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[brog]

For me I've always believed the biggest cause of the downfall was Joe Harper's arrival - he just wasn't needed !. Our centre-forward at the time, Alan Gordon, was in line for the 'Golden Boot Of Europe' award (an award given to the highest scorer of that season) so there was no sense or logic behind it !. I've heard it said that Harper was brought without Turnbull's blessing or knowledge - maybe Hart just wanted to be the first chairman of a Scottish club to pay over £100,000 for a player ??. Either way, for me, Hibs just started to plummet after Harper arrived - apparently he wasn't easy to get on with either, One of the stories I've heard was that Harper, Blackley and 2-3 of the other 1st-team at the time, were in the 'Lea Rig' pub in Restalrig and an argument developed between Harper and Blackley that ended with Blackley sticking-the-nut on Harper, who went flying off the stool he was sitting on !. Whether that's true I don't know, I think, at the time, I only heard this story from 1-2 people ??. Maybe there were also other reasons for the downfall, but for me as a 11-12 year-old laddie at the time, I was convinced it was all Harper's fault !

There's no doubt Harper's arrival caused disruption in the squad but it's a bit unfair to pin all our decline on him. He was 100% Turnbull's choice, remember Ned had been his manager at Aberdeen. Alan Gordon wasn't in line for the Golden Boot, he had been in 72/73 season but Harper was signed in Feb 74. TBF to both Ned & Harper, the Tornadoes did under achieve, 1 major trophy only & we had fallen apart in the 2nd half of the wondrous 72/73 season. Turnbull thought Harper was the guy to make us less of a soft touch. It didn't work but Harper's scoring record for Hibs was top class, 1 in 2 & he was 1st capped while playing for us.

[Tomsk]

You make an excellent point there about Ned's health & as GreenGinger mentions the loss of Wilson Humphries. Ned was contrary & stubborn at the best of time & while his non existent man management worked when we had a great team, it bit us when we had a lesser team. I wouldn't really agree about the lack of investment from Tom H though, he backed Ned throughout in the transfer market & smashed the Scottish record when signing Joe Harper. Tom H was always innovative & he tried to make Ned the 1st ever Football Director but Ned took it badly & I believe that was the start of the falling out. Despite it all Ned did have one last chance of glory but a shocking refereeing decision (surprise) cost us the Cup in 1979. That final was our last huzzah & we were relegated the following season. That's a simplistic version but really Ned was not the same manager from about 1976 on.

It's a funny old game. Until 2016, that 1979 side, which was, how can I put this kindly, no very guid, made the best fist of any Hibs side I've seen in a Scottish Cup final. They could easily have won the cup.

[superfurryhibby]

There's no doubt Harper's arrival caused disruption in the squad but it's a bit unfair to pin all our decline on him. He was 100% Turnbull's choice, remember Ned had been his manager at Aberdeen. Alan Gordon wasn't in line for the Golden Boot, he had been in 72/73 season but Harper was signed in Feb 74. TBF to both Ned & Harper, the Tornadoes did under achieve, 1 major trophy only & we had fallen apart in the 2nd half of the wondrous 72/73 season. Turnbull thought Harper was the guy to make us less of a soft touch. It didn't work but Harper's scoring record for Hibs was top class, 1 in 2 & he was 1st capped while playing for us.


I can appreciate Turnbull wanting to add steel to a side that had perhaps fallen short at times, but it seems a strange decision to sign Harper. The strike force were just awesome, so adding him to the mix seems odd.

Imagine Hibs had used that money differently, maybe signed Alan Rough and the likes of Tam Forsyth (ok, probably already a HUn so mibbies not). The £120,000 fee was very high by the standard of the time. If only we could rewrite history
, what could that team have achieved if the money was spent differently. One way or another, Harper's transfer must be a pretty significant one in terms of impact, sigh

[greenpaper55]

By the mid seventies i think Ned was believing his own publicity and he thought he could do no wrong, He was lucky when he took over Hibs in that the core of the team Blackley Stanton Brownlie were top class, he did pluck some really good players from obscurity such as Duncan and shades, all five mentioned played for Scotland. Bottom line is we never replaced like with like on a class basis so the standards dropped , we were beaten more and crowds dropped in the usual downward spiral. Ned sadly lost his golden touch of spotting a good player at a bargain price and maybe his pot of gold was smaller also due to his benefactor not throwing so much money around.

[BILLYHIBS]

I can appreciate Turnbull wanting to add steel to a side that had perhaps fallen short at times, but it seems a strange decision to sign Harper. The strike force were just awesome, so adding him to the mix seems odd.

Imagine Hibs had used that money differently, maybe signed Alan Rough and the likes of Tam Forsyth (ok, probably already a HUn so mibbies not). The £120,000 fee was very high by the standard of the time. If only we could rewrite history
, what could that team have achieved if the money was spent differently. One way or another, Harper's transfer must be a pretty significant one in terms of impact, sigh
Maybe signing another top class goalie as cover for Herriot rather than binning him and a centre half Big Dode Stewart who was desperate to sign

Perhaps Tom Hart was in a hurry to get his investment back from Harper hence the sale of Cropley

Gordon and ORourke very quickly became surplus to requirements and were sold

Ally Macleod was brought in to replace Cropley

Joe Harper as others have said was an excellent player but not initially accepted by the fans made his debut at Brockville at least two stone overweight and seemed to get away with a lot more under Turnbull than existing Tornadoes

Two quotes from that time stick in my head the first from Joe Harper “Do you think I left Everton for less money?”

Pat Stanton said that after 1/1/1973 Turnbull stepped up the training to really go for the league but injuries and suspensions took over the final straw was the 0-3 defeat in Split in the ECWC QF a trophy that Turnbull thought HIBS could win that was when he decided to break up the Tornadoes

Jim Herriot never played for HIBS again

[BILLYHIBS]

By the mid seventies i think Ned was believing his own publicity and he thought he could do no wrong, He was lucky when he took over Hibs in that the core of the team Blackley Stanton Brownlie were top class, he did pluck some really good players from obscurity such as Duncan and shades, all five mentioned played for Scotland. Bottom line is we never replaced like with like on a class basis so the standards dropped , we were beaten more and crowds dropped in the usual downward spiral. Ned sadly lost his golden touch of spotting a good player at a bargain price and maybe his pot of gold was smaller also due to his benefactor not throwing so much money around.
Duncan and Shades were both signed by Willie Macfarlane

Turnbull signed Gordon Edwards and Herriot

[ancient hibee]

I thought signing Harper would be a good move as the time to strengthen a squad is when it's playing well not badly.O'Rourke and Gordon had had a great run and I imagined that Harper would replace O'Rourke and O'Rourke who was good enough (and had in the Past)would play where required anywhere in midfield.The first game at Brockville was a big shock.First of all Harper was no where near fit and second he and O'Rourke started upfront with Gordon on the bench.Seemed all wrong to me and that 0-0 draw was the start of the decline because the way the team played was changed Harper preferred to play in the middle on his own and once fit was very good at it and he liked to have two fast wingers because he was prolific coming on to a low driven ball from out wide.Ned seemed to have lost the plot.My seat in the old stand was just behind the Directors Box and he sat in the back row.Most of the time he looked ashen and there were always rumours about major stomach problems.Decent players were brought in,particularly George Stewart who should have been signed a few years earlier.The signing of Best was the final straw.Ned knew it would be a waste of money which could have been spent elsewhere.He and Hart and Youngerhad been great pals.If you wanted to find them on a Saturday night they were having a meal in the Queensway in Queensferry Road .Some of us would go there for dinner with our wives and it was noticeable that they were nowhere near as pally and it was no surprise when it all ended in tears and relegation.

[Kato]

By the mid seventies i think Ned was believing his own publicity.


Didn't get that impression at all.

One, it coincides with the period of time when he was extremely ill.

Two, to describe ET as "down to earth" doesn't even begin to bring into focus how much of a realist he was. If you read about his time as manager of Queens Park or his early years with Aberdeen you get impression of someone with zero affectations. He knew how good he was but was level with that throughout his career.


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[brog]

Maybe signing another top class goalie as cover for Herriot rather than binning him and a centre half Big Dode Stewart who was desperate to sign

Perhaps Tom Hart was in a hurry to get his investment back from Harper hence the sale of Cropley

Gordon and ORourke very quickly became surplus to requirements and were sold

Ally Macleod was brought in to replace Cropley

Joe Harper as others have said was an excellent player but not initially accepted by the fans made his debut at Brockville at least two stone overweight and seemed to get away with a lot more under Turnbull than existing Tornadoes

Two quotes from that time stick in my head the first from Joe Harper “Do you think I left Everton for less money?”

Pat Stanton said that after 1/1/1973 Turnbull stepped up the training to really go for the league but injuries and suspensions took over the final straw was the 0-3 defeat in Split in the ECWC QF a trophy that Turnbull thought HIBS could win that was when he decided to break up the Tornadoes

Jim Herriot never played for HIBS again

Turnbull's most bizarre signing was Roddy McKenzie. We scored 19 goals against Airdrie in 72/73 & then signed their keeper. 11 games later & Roddy was history!!

[BILLYHIBS]

Turnbull's most bizarre signing was Roddy McKenzie. We scored 19 goals against Airdrie in 72/73 & then signed their keeper. 11 games later & Roddy was history!!

Agree but strangely I always liked Roddy Mackenzie but you are correct he was pants with us been a few goalies like that this last fifty years at HIBS

Played 11 Lost 20

[Global Hibby]

Everything on this thread brings back amazing memories and getting my lift over from family and anyone else for that matter into the ground. I thought Hibs were incredible and as many have said already re Harper and the team splitting up to early, I recall going to Hamden with my dad to watch that infamous cup final 1-6. Am a kid and still in my mind I thought the score so flattered Celtic. Dixie Deans the curse of Hibs ........my other memory is hanging around Easter Road after school and picking up the autographs. Every single player was so friendly to us kids and always made time. If that team has been kept together and added a couple of quality players ...wow ....what dreams are made from...special times

[BILLYHIBS]

Everything on this thread brings back amazing memories and getting my lift over from family and anyone else for that matter into the ground. I thought Hibs were incredible and as many have said already re Harper and the team splitting up to early, I recall going to Hamden with my dad to watch that infamous cup final 1-6. Am a kid and still in my mind I thought the score so flattered Celtic. Dixie Deans the curse of Hibs ........my other memory is hanging around Easter Road after school and picking up the autographs. Every single player was so friendly to us kids and always made time. If that team has been kept together and added a couple of quality players ...wow ....what dreams are made from...special times

Posted on another thread but some footage from the 1-6 Final

https://youtu.be/PcqvOBs0V8o

[Global Hibby]

Posted on another thread but some footage from the 1-6 Final

https://youtu.be/PcqvOBs0V8o
Cheers and big thanks ! 😊😊😊

[BILLYHIBS]

Cheers and big thanks ! 😊😊😊

Yip different times

106000 there that day

Final score could’ve been 6-8 as HIBS went for it second half

I left at 1-4 when the fighting broke out at the Rangers End and the bottles started to fly

Managed to find my own way back to the Carlton Branch Bus aged twelve and three quarters 😁

[Frankhfc]

Everything on this thread brings back amazing memories and getting my lift over from family and anyone else for that matter into the ground. I thought Hibs were incredible and as many have said already re Harper and the team splitting up to early, I recall going to Hamden with my dad to watch that infamous cup final 1-6. Am a kid and still in my mind I thought the score so flattered Celtic. Dixie Deans the curse of Hibs ........my other memory is hanging around Easter Road after school and picking up the autographs. Every single player was so friendly to us kids and always made time. If that team has been kept together and added a couple of quality players ...wow ....what dreams are made from...special times

Good days back then. Unemployed and Oap turnstiles. Football specials, Punks and Skinheads, The Golden Girls, Supporters buses looting shops (not me guv), Battles at service stations. Standing Terracings. lift overs, Camel skin coats, Sways and of course the Jambo Duncans forever battling amongst themselves.

[Global Hibby]

Yip different times

106000 there that day

Final score could’ve been 6-8 as HIBS went for it second half

I left at 1-4 when the fighting broke out at the Rangers End and the bottles started to fly

Managed to find my own way back to the Carlton Branch Bus aged twelve and three quarters 😁

we stayed to the bitter end and then our bus got bricked ......always thought if they do that when they hammer a team what about when they lose

[Global Hibby]

Good days back then. Unemployed and Oap turnstiles. Football specials, Punks and Skinheads, The Golden Girls, Supporters buses looting shops (not me guv), Battles at service stations. Standing Terracings. lift overs, Camel skin coats, Sways and of course the Jambo Duncans forever battling amongst themselves.


OMG yesssss....when did YLT kick off ....can’t seem to recall them early 70,s ...

[Feed McGraw]

Turnbull's most bizarre signing was Roddy McKenzie. We scored 19 goals against Airdrie in 72/73 & then signed their keeper. 11 games later & Roddy was history!! I remember going through to watch Hibs in Dumbarton and when we got in the ground we were all saying " who`s the keeper" ? Seemingly Roddy had signed "overnight" and he was straight in the team. Didn`t work out that day, we lost 4-1.

[Feed McGraw]

OMG yesssss....when did YLT kick off ....can’t seem to recall them early 70,s ... Definitely around in the early 70`s. Peak period for Edinburgh street gangs. :greengrin

[brog]

I remember going through to watch Hibs in Dumbarton and when we got in the ground we were all saying " who`s the keeper" ? Seemingly Roddy had signed "overnight" and he was straight in the team. Didn`t work out that day, we lost 4-1.

And soon after we lost 4-1 again,at Tiny, the game after 7-0. Roddy was a NI international so on surface he seemed a decent signing. We never really replaced Jim Herriott though until the Rough, Goram, Leighton days. Were we spoiled then or what?

[Kato]

For everyone pointing out that the decline started when Joe Harper arrived.

The three seasons before he came we finished 12th, 4th then 3rd. After he signed we finished 2nd, 2nd and 3rd.

Doesn't tell the whole story I know but it's a strange stat given our collective perception of him.

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[Bostonhibby]

Everything on this thread brings back amazing memories and getting my lift over from family and anyone else for that matter into the ground. I thought Hibs were incredible and as many have said already re Harper and the team splitting up to early, I recall going to Hamden with my dad to watch that infamous cup final 1-6. Am a kid and still in my mind I thought the score so flattered Celtic. Dixie Deans the curse of Hibs ........my other memory is hanging around Easter Road after school and picking up the autographs. Every single player was so friendly to us kids and always made time. If that team has been kept together and added a couple of quality players ...wow ....what dreams are made from...special times

We're of the same era I suspect. I was there, only got to go because my uncle, a real jambo took me through on a Hibs supporters bus, still remember being high up on the terracing and the crowd moving like waves.

I can still see our goal vividly albeit from far away. Bought the press photo of it years later and it's still on the wall.

Dixie ******* Deans.. they were a real good side then celtc and we often matched or bettered them.

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[Roxyhibee]

And soon after we lost 4-1 again,at Tiny, the game after 7-0. Roddy was a NI international so on surface he seemed a decent signing. We never really replaced Jim Herriott though until the Rough, Goram, Leighton days. Were we spoiled then or what?

He was truly awful that day. One of the worst Hibs goalkeeping displays I’ve witnessed.

[BILLYHIBS]

He was truly awful that day. One of the worst Hibs goalkeeping displays I’ve witnessed.

Was right behind the goals for Erich Schaedlers own goal Gorgie Road end and still recall it vividly

IIRC Hearts played very well that day two young guys in particular causing us problems all day Cant and Stevenson

They got their revenge for 7-0

[SideBurns]

And soon after we lost 4-1 again,at Tiny, the game after 7-0. Roddy was a NI international so on surface he seemed a decent signing. We never really replaced Jim Herriott though until the Rough, Goram, Leighton days. Were we spoiled then or what?

Brog, I started going to games in 1978 and one of my early heroes was Jim 'General' McArthur. How was he regarded by those who had seen the TTs as a replacement for Jim Herriot?

I recall one game in 1981 when we beat Celtic 1-0 with an Ally McLeod penalty, and McArthur saved a pen from Charlie Nicholas; Celtic battered us, but he was superb. I was right behind the goal for both penalties - unfortunately, in the Dunbar End amongst 9,000 Tic fans! My Dad hadn't quite embraced the concept of segregation yet...

[Dashing Bob S]

The introduction of playing each other 4 times a season didn't help - (Tom Hart's idea!).

By the third round of fixtures the more agricultural teams had sussed out how to spoil the better teams play. Resulted in us buying the likes of Roy Barry to act as an enforcer.

I doubt anyone could claim that the game in Scotland has recovered as an entertainment spectacle. Some brutal teams have been successful - I include Jim McLean's Dundee Utd in that. Some great players and can't deny their success but jeez, they were as dull as dish-water to watch at times. It's notable their decline started when the pass-back to goalie was banned.

This is a crucial factor. The Tornadoes were always going to be a hard act to follow but the four games a season did us (and I think Scottish football in general) absolutely no favours at all.

For some reason, around this time, I don’t know what happened to our scouting network, but Dundee United seemed to replace Hibs as the go-to club for bright youthful talent.

[Tom Hart RIP]

Jim McArthur was a good keeper but in hindsight I think instead of buying Joe Harper, we should have spent the money on a young Alan Rough and also a young Gordon McQueen who was available for (I think) around £15,000 from St Mirren to replace big Cilla.
If we kept the rest then we would have won loads.

[BILLYHIBS]

I remember Jim McArthur looked small for a goalkeeper and pretty sure he came from a Rugby background
All said and done he did ok and still attends games at Easter Road to this day

[brog]

Brog, I started going to games in 1978 and one of my early heroes was Jim 'General' McArthur. How was he regarded by those who had seen the TTs as a replacement for Jim Herriot?

I recall one game in 1981 when we beat Celtic 1-0 with an Ally McLeod penalty, and McArthur saved a pen from Charlie Nicholas; Celtic battered us, but he was superb. I was right behind the goal for both penalties - unfortunately, in the Dunbar End amongst 9,000 Tic fans! My Dad hadn't quite embraced the concept of segregation yet...

Jim was a decent keeper but he wasn't the biggest, well not in height anyway! :wink: He was highly regarded as a young player at Cowdenbeath so it was a bit of a scoop for us to get him. He was thrust in earlier than planned when Jim H, who was 33, was pretty much made the scapegoat for the Hajduk defeat. Jim Mac was over 10 years with us & made nearly 300 appearances many of them for the Tornadoes but Jim H's name is the one that everyone remembers. Mike McDonald was 1st choice for 2 or 3 seasons & played 150 games at the same time Jim was there so Jim's # of appearances is even more impressive. Mike had a shocker at Dens, cup semi vs Aberdeen & Jim got back in. As I say Jim was decent but when we signed Roughie we saw the difference that a truly top class keeper could make.

[Bostonhibby]

Brog, I started going to games in 1978 and one of my early heroes was Jim 'General' McArthur. How was he regarded by those who had seen the TTs as a replacement for Jim Herriot?

I recall one game in 1981 when we beat Celtic 1-0 with an Ally McLeod penalty, and McArthur saved a pen from Charlie Nicholas; Celtic battered us, but he was superb. I was right behind the goal for both penalties - unfortunately, in the Dunbar End amongst 9,000 Tic fans! My Dad hadn't quite embraced the concept of segregation yet...Jim McArthur was a very good keeper, I never ever felt the jitters I got with quite a few of his successors. Good guy as well.

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[Scotty Leither]

Posted on another thread but some footage from the 1-6 Final

https://youtu.be/PcqvOBs0V8o

Believe it or not, but the guy getting taken out on the stretcher at 8:46 is Billy Connolly.

[BILLYHIBS]

Believe it or not, but the guy getting taken out on the stretcher at 8:46 is Billy Connolly.

Spotted that 😂

[pollution]

I remember Jim McArthur looked small for a goalkeeper and pretty sure he came from a Rugby background
All said and done he did ok and still attends games at Easter Road to this day


Is this the same keeper who conceded 15 goals in seven days?

[BILLYHIBS]

Is this the same keeper who conceded 15 goals in seven days?

Yip 19-26/10/1974 to Celtic and Juve

Went on to play almost 300 games for us no a bad return for 8k

[BILLYHIBS]

Believe it or not, but the guy getting taken out on the stretcher at 8:46 is Billy Connolly.

Did you spot Jimmy Reid?

[Scotty Leither]

Did you spot Jimmy Reid?

Aye, him tae!

[Keith_M]

Did you spot Jimmy Reid?


I knew I recognised the guy but couldn't think who it was.


Thanks Billy.

:aok:

[Ray_]

One factor often overlooked was Turnbull's ill health. It wasn't even widely publicised at the time apart from when he had to relinquish first team duties for a spell when Wilson Humphries took over (unbeaten in 12-14 matches whilst he picked the team). Psychologically Turnbull was spent by '76-77, he never actually fully recovered until the '90's.

Also Turnbull's astuteness, and the players he inherited, meant that his early success was achieved for a song - when solid investment was required it was never really met by Hart. Selling players for pretty big sums but not really re-investing.

I remember St Mirren getting rid of Alex Ferguson and preying that ET would move upstairs and allow Ferguson to come in which would have been a no brainer given his work with East Stirling and St Mirren.

A number of dodgy decisions already mentioned, I would also add the decision to get rid of Harper was poor at the time, he scored five in his final game for Hibs, which, albeit, was in a reserve game, but he was a natural finisher and we failed to get another in for several years and he did a big turn for Aberdeen after he had left us, scoring just over every second game, where as our top scorer in three of the four seasons between 1976-80 scored 8 goals, it makes me wonder about the 79 final[s] and the next 37 years.

It wasn't just Eddie Turnbull, the raw talent wasn't coming through and the likes of home grown such as Stanton, O'Rourke, Cormack, Stein, Marinello, Blackley, Brownlie & Cropley was a distant memory, although Gordon Strachan would have helped!

[JimBHibees]

Was right behind the goals for Erich Schaedlers own goal Gorgie Road end and still recall it vividly

IIRC Hearts played very well that day two young guys in particular causing us problems all day Cant and Stevenson

They got their revenge for 7-0

Hearts have had a few players over the years with the surname Cant have they not. :greengrin

[BILLYHIBS]

Hearts have had a few players over the years with the surname Cant have they not. :greengrin

In fairness he was a classy player only played 66 times for Hearts emigrated to Oz and played 14 times for Australia

[JimBHibees]

In fairness he was a classy player only played 66 times for Hearts emigrated to Oz and played 14 times for Australia

Honestly cant remember the name. Mostly remember from that team Ford, Anderson, Cruickshanks, Aird and Prentice though think he was later.

[JimBHibees]

Posted on another thread but some footage from the 1-6 Final

https://youtu.be/PcqvOBs0V8o

Can remember as a kid being heartbroken after that final as genuinely thought we were going to win it.

[BILLYHIBS]

Honestly cant remember the name. Mostly remember from that team Ford, Anderson, Cruickshanks, Aird and Prentice though think he was later.

Pretty sure he had an altercation with some hibbies in Princes St Gardens shortly after said game but my memory is starting to get a bit hazy so might be talking pish

Strange as nowadays I never ever remember Hearts players as there is usually that many of them and they never ever last so no point even trying to remember them never ever notice them unless they score against us of course

[eastterrace]

Pretty sure he had an altercation with some hibbies in Princes St Gardens shortly after said game but my memory is starting to get a bit hazy so might be talking pish

Strange as nowadays I never ever remember Hearts players as there is usually that many of them and they never ever last so no point even trying to remember them never ever notice them unless they score against us of course Alex scott now there was someone who could cross a ball.

[Biggie]

For everyone pointing out that the decline started when Joe Harper arrived.

The three seasons before he came we finished 12th, 4th then 3rd. After he signed we finished 2nd, 2nd and 3rd.

Doesn't tell the whole story I know but it's a strange stat given our collective perception of him.

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Probably sentiment as (if I recall) Jimmy O'Rourke gave way for him....:-(
The halcyon days of Turnballs Tornadoes was something to behold for a wee 12 / 13 year old....spoilt rotten with great games (Juve, Leeds, Split, Sporting Lisbon, FC Besa !.....), free scoring football, thumping hearts, and 3 cup wins over a relatively short period.
Great time to be a hibby..

[Kato]

In fairness he was a classy player only played 66 times for Hearts emigrated to Oz and played 14 times for AustraliaThe chant ---

Jim Cant Can't
Jim Cant Can't

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[BILLYHIBS]

The chant ---

Jim Cant Can't
Jim Cant Can't

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Ah Kato

Always remember he had a permanent tan but came from Gilmerton

There is a thread over on Keekback where Jimmy Cant actually posts from Oz

I wonder if any ex players have ever posted on here?

Anyway according to KB the song goes:

“ Jimmy Cant at the back said everyone attack and it turned into a Busby blitz”. 🤮

[BILLYHIBS]

Can remember as a kid being heartbroken after that final as genuinely thought we were going to win it.

You were not alone

[SteveHFC]

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/match/64522--juventus-vs-hibernian/?referrer=%2Fuefaeuropaleague%2Fseason%3D1974%2Fma tches%2Fround%3D1068%2Fmatch%3D64522%2F

Some famous names in that Juventus side!

[Tom Hart RIP]

You were not alone


I was due to go with a friend of my dads who was a Celtic fan and in the lead up to the game I couldn't sleep for worrying that he would want to leave before Pat was presented with the cup.

Two days before the final he dropped down dead.

My dad, who had no interest in football took me and we stood in the 'Rangers' end mostly surrounded by drunken Weegies spouting their usual bile. If memory serves, there was a women/girls race round the pitch as pre-match entertainment and the Weegies were less than politically correct with regard to what they would like to do with the runners.

I asked to leave when they got the fifth.

Apparently there was thunder and lightening at shortly after the game and I said " I hope it hits Dixie Deans'

My dad never went to another game and I had to persuade him that Easter Road was nothing like Hampden and our fans were completely different.

[Kato]

Probably sentiment as (if I recall) Jimmy O'Rourke gave way for him....:-(
The halcyon days of Turnballs Tornadoes was something to behold for a wee 12 / 13 year old....spoilt rotten with great games (Juve, Leeds, Split, Sporting Lisbon, FC Besa !.....), free scoring football, thumping hearts, and 3 cup wins over a relatively short period.
Great time to be a hibby..

Yes, don't get me wrong the team before Harper joined sticks far more in the memory than the one with Joe H in it.

Simply poetry in motion at times.

[Kato]

Ah Kato

Always remember he had a permanent tan but came from Gilmerton

There is a thread over on Keekback where Jimmy Cant actually posts from Oz

I wonder if any ex players have ever posted on here?

Anyway according to KB the song goes:

“ Jimmy Cant at the back said everyone attack and it turned into a Busby blitz”. 🤮

Thats their song. Not the one I heard :wink:

Busby was an animal pure and simple. The fact that a certain generation of Hearts fans idolise him is probably more to do with attempts (some successful) to maim our players, like them highlighting the moment of one season as being Cochrane's tackle on SJM.

Busby, who was an animal, probably hated playing against us, I don't think his record in derbies was anything to write home about, ditto Donald Ford.

The only payers from the 70's Hearts teams I would in any way rate are Cruickshank and Jim Brown. Some would rate Bobby Prentice but I though he was a joke compared to Arthur Duncan and Mickey Edwards.

Did I mention Busby was animal? One of the dirtiest players I've ever seen.

[Kato]

BTW No one has mentioned what might be the biggest factor in the mid-70's decline.

Celtic had one of their greatest sides ever.

Without the momentum gained by winning things it's not long before you run out of wind.

[BILLYHIBS]

BTW No one has mentioned what might be the biggest factor in the mid-70's decline.

Celtic had one of their greatest sides ever.

Without the momentum gained by winning things it's not long before you run out of wind.

Agree that Busby was a Carthorse and that Turnbulls Tornadoes were poetry in motion

I feel sorry for today’s generation that they were born too late to witness it in the same way that my Dad felt sorry for me that I did not see the Famous Five

Yes Celtic had a very good team but I always expected HIBS to beat Celtic and Rangers nowadays we just live in hope that HIBS turn up

[Tomsk]

Pretty sure he had an altercation with some hibbies in Princes St Gardens shortly after said game but my memory is starting to get a bit hazy so might be talking pish

Strange as nowadays I never ever remember Hearts players as there is usually that many of them and they never ever last so no point even trying to remember them never ever notice them unless they score against us of course

Are you getting mixed up with Eric Carruthers?

[BILLYHIBS]

Are you getting mixed up with Eric Carruthers?

No defo suntan boy stuck in my mind as I had never heard of him up until the 4-1 game

I would defo remember Curruthers he is up there with ratboy Naismith and has the sort of pus you don’t forget 😁

Did Curruthers get attacked?

[Tomsk]

No defo suntan boy stuck in my mind as I had never heard of him up until the 4-1 game

I would defo remember Curruthers he is up there with ratboy Naismith and has the sort of pus you don’t forget 😁

Did Curruthers get attacked?

There's a story kicking about that Carruthers was beaten up after the 7-0 game but by Hearts fans. Probably not related. Ignore me.

Interesting that violence inflicted on footballers appears to be very rare in Edinburgh despite the two-club split, emotions that go with it and the no shortage of bams that live here.

[expresso]

I remember going through to watch Hibs in Dumbarton and when we got in the ground we were all saying " who`s the keeper" ? Seemingly Roddy had signed "overnight" and he was straight in the team. Didn`t work out that day, we lost 4-1.
My first ever match was the 1-6 final as I lived in Belfast live games were rare however my family had friends in Glasgow and while we were over on a holiday I was taken to that Dumbarton game (late 70s?) bit of a scud in this days!

[brog]

There's a story kicking about that Carruthers was beaten up after the 7-0 game but by Hearts fans. Probably not related. Ignore me.

Interesting that violence inflicted on footballers appears to be very rare in Edinburgh despite the two-club split, emotions that go with it and the no shortage of bams that live here.

Carruthers did well on 1/1/73. The half he played they only lost 2-0!!😁

[Tom Hart RIP]

Sure I read an article years ago where EC mentioned that he had been verbally abused by Hearts fans that night.
At first he’s assumed they were Hibs fans but soon discovered that they were from his own team.

[One Day]

Sure I read an article years ago where EC mentioned that he had been verbally abused by Hearts fans that night.
At first he’s assumed they were Hibs fans but soon discovered that they were from his own team.

Remember being told it was in the Rutland. Hearts fans annoyed that he was out enjoying himself after that result

[BILLYHIBS]

Remember being told it was in the Rutland. Hearts fans annoyed that he was out enjoying himself after that result

Ah The Rutland No1 many a good night in there 😁

[Barman Stanton]

Agree that Busby was a Carthorse and that Turnbulls Tornadoes were poetry in motion

I feel sorry for today’s generation that they were born too late to witness it in the same way that my Dad felt sorry for me that I did not see the Famous Five

Yes Celtic had a very good team but I always expected HIBS to beat Celtic and Rangers nowadays we just live in hope that HIBS turn up

In fairness today’s generation did get to witness the most incredible cup final :) Most have seen a League Cup win as well. Totally spoilt!

[BILLYHIBS]

In fairness today’s generation did get to witness the most incredible cup final :) Most have seen a League Cup win as well. Totally spoilt!

Aye forgot about that 😂

[brog]

In fairness today’s generation did get to witness the most incredible cup final :) Most have seen a League Cup win as well. Totally spoilt!

A good point but it was similar with the Tornadoes. Although we won 3 league titles post war, our triumph in 1972 was 70 years since our prior cup win. With 4 cup wins from 1972 to date, comparatively we've all been spoiled since then.

[Purple & Green]

Harper scored 50 times in 99 games for Hibs. Whilst maybe not as good as what had gone before, it doesn't really scream failure.

What I would add, and this is slightly before my time, is that my feeling was that selling Stanton disconnected (for want of a better word) the club and support. The transfer was probably one of the better ones replacing a player coming to the end of his career with one who would go onto be the heart of the team for the following decade but I think it went down very badly with the fans.

In fact, I know many Hibs fans who claim that they've never been back to ER since Stantons testimonial. I've even tried to get a few back, but with no success.

What I can provide to back this up is the average attendances prior to Stanton leaving:

70/71 Pre Turnbull 10,541
71/72 14,057
72/73 16,100
73/74 14,339
74/75 13,721
75/76 13,797 (first year of 10 team SPL)

Stanton sold at start of 76/77 season

76/77 10,003 (This represents a drop of 28% on the season before)
77/78 9,950
78/79 9,794

It would 1987/88 before we would break 10k again.

[EI255]

Personally, I loved the late 70s / early 80s. Started watching Hibs from around 79 and although we weren't great and crowds were poor, it was a brilliant time, stark surroundings (home and away) always fighting on the terraces, flash points before and after games, crazy stuff on the pitch, and brilliant looking Hibernian shirts!
The glory days!!! [emoji16][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]

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[Keith_M]

Personally, I loved the late 70s / early 80s. Started watching Hibs from around 79 and although we weren't great and crowds were poor, it was a brilliant time, stark surroundings (home and away) always fighting on the terraces, flash points before and after games, crazy stuff on the pitch, and brilliant looking Hibernian shirts!
The glory days!!! [emoji16][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk


I started going in '79 as well and have to say that I preferred away games to home games.

You normally had a bit of covered terracing at away matches and could get a bit of a sing-song going.

[Wakeyhibee]

Harper scored 50 times in 99 games for Hibs. Whilst maybe not as good as what had gone before, it doesn't really scream failure.

What I would add, and this is slightly before my time, is that my feeling was that selling Stanton disconnected (for want of a better word) the club and support. The transfer was probably one of the better ones replacing a player coming to the end of his career with one who would go onto be the heart of the team for the following decade but I think it went down very badly with the fans.

In fact, I know many Hibs fans who claim that they've never been back to ER since Stantons testimonial. I've even tried to get a few back, but with no success.

What I can provide to back this up is the average attendances prior to Stanton leaving:

70/71 Pre Turnbull 10,541
71/72 14,057
72/73 16,100
73/74 14,339
74/75 13,721
75/76 13,797 (first year of 10 team SPL)

Stanton sold at start of 76/77 season

76/77 10,003 (This represents a drop of 28% on the season before)
77/78 9,950
78/79 9,794

It would 1987/88 before we would break 10k again.

Pat's move may have been a factor for some but crowds were plummeting everywhere in the economic climate.

Not sure if the change in league set up had a bearing also.

[Tomsk]

Harper scored 50 times in 99 games for Hibs. Whilst maybe not as good as what had gone before, it doesn't really scream failure.

What I would add, and this is slightly before my time, is that my feeling was that selling Stanton disconnected (for want of a better word) the club and support. The transfer was probably one of the better ones replacing a player coming to the end of his career with one who would go onto be the heart of the team for the following decade but I think it went down very badly with the fans.

In fact, I know many Hibs fans who claim that they've never been back to ER since Stantons testimonial. I've even tried to get a few back, but with no success.

What I can provide to back this up is the average attendances prior to Stanton leaving:

70/71 Pre Turnbull 10,541
71/72 14,057
72/73 16,100
73/74 14,339
74/75 13,721
75/76 13,797 (first year of 10 team SPL)

Stanton sold at start of 76/77 season

76/77 10,003 (This represents a drop of 28% on the season before)
77/78 9,950
78/79 9,794

It would 1987/88 before we would break 10k again.

That's a fascinating set of stats. I had no idea there was such a drop coinciding with Stanton's departure.

There's was nothing calculated about the swap for McNamara. Stanton left because of a fall-out with Turnbull. For whatever reason, McNamara was persona non grata at Celtic. He was make-weight in the deal. It worked out ok in as much as McNamara proved to be a wonderful servant to the club, but nobody will ever convince Hibs supporters - and I'm one of them - that letting Stanton go to Celtc was anything but bad policy.

Without great difficulty Hibs could easily have got McNamara and kept Stanton.

[Since452]

It's strange that league restructuring seemed to favour smaller clubs like Dundee United and Hearts. Hibs seemed to take a body blow as well as coming off the end of a very good period.

[brog]

Harper scored 50 times in 99 games for Hibs. Whilst maybe not as good as what had gone before, it doesn't really scream failure.

What I would add, and this is slightly before my time, is that my feeling was that selling Stanton disconnected (for want of a better word) the club and support. The transfer was probably one of the better ones replacing a player coming to the end of his career with one who would go onto be the heart of the team for the following decade but I think it went down very badly with the fans.

In fact, I know many Hibs fans who claim that they've never been back to ER since Stantons testimonial. I've even tried to get a few back, but with no success.

What I can provide to back this up is the average attendances prior to Stanton leaving:

70/71 Pre Turnbull 10,541
71/72 14,057
72/73 16,100
73/74 14,339
74/75 13,721
75/76 13,797 (first year of 10 team SPL)

Stanton sold at start of 76/77 season

76/77 10,003 (This represents a drop of 28% on the season before)
77/78 9,950
78/79 9,794

It would 1987/88 before we would break 10k again.

Interesting stats but I'm afraid that there's a more prosaic answer & that is that capacity was reduced to 30k in about 1975. IIRC segregation was enforced more vigorously about the same time meaning that we no longer saw 20k fans of the uglies at ER. For many years before 1976 our average attendance stats were distorted by 3 big gates, often over 40k, a season. After that time our highest attendance was usually about 23k. If you lose say 45k over these 3 games then that accounts for a 2.5k average drop over 18 home games.

[Purple & Green]

Interesting stats but I'm afraid that there's a more prosaic answer & that is that capacity was reduced to 30k in about 1975. IIRC segregation was enforced more vigorously about the same time meaning that we no longer saw 20k fans of the uglies at ER. For many years before 1976 our average attendance stats were distorted by 3 big gates, often over 40k, a season. After that time our highest attendance was usually about 23k. If you lose say 45k over these 3 games then that accounts for a 2.5k average drop over 18 home games.

Of course a significant factor, but if you drill into those figures:

Average crowds home league only v Hearts/Rangers/Celtic:

70/71 26,139 (3 games)
71/72 33,954 (3 games)
72/73 33,340 (3 games)
73/74 35,699 (3 games)
74/75 31,500 (3 games)

75/76 23,691 (6 games)

76/77 17,222 (6 games)
77/78 17,756 (4 games)
78/79 16,107 (6 games)

A drop off with stadium alterations, but, also we gained 3 crowds v Rangers/Celtic and Hearts when they were in the same premier division and these crowds replaced typically 4 digit crowds against the likes of Clyde or East Fife.

[Edit: I tried to dive into my kindle to check what Hibs books had on the capacity, but apparently I can't because I have 39 devices registered with kindle. This technology is beyond me!]

[Tomsk]

Of course a significant factor, but if you drill into those figures:

Average crowds home league only v Hearts/Rangers/Celtic:

70/71 26,139 (3 games)
71/72 33,954 (3 games)
72/73 33,340 (3 games)
73/74 35,699 (3 games)
74/75 31,500 (3 games)

75/76 23,691 (6 games)

76/77 17,222 (6 games)
77/78 17,756 (4 games)
78/79 16,107 (6 games)

A drop off with stadium alterations, but, also we gained 3 crowds v Rangers/Celtic and Hearts when they were in the same premier division and these crowds replaced typically 4 digit crowds against the likes of Clyde or East Fife.

Hibs dropped from 3rd to 6th between 76 and 77, which must have had some detrimental effect on attendances . Also Hearts got relegated - what were the crowds in the derby one season to the next?

[EI255]

Got old highlights of Hibs games converted to DVD. Interesting song sung by Hibs fans up at Tannadice (looked like a summer game) Hibs players ran out tunnel to the tune of Roamin in the Gloamin'! Quite clear too. Remember those days very well. Life was very different then with the troubles over the Irish Sea.

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

[Keith_M]

Got old highlights of Hibs games converted to DVD. Interesting song sung by Hibs fans up at Tannadice (looked like a summer game) Hibs players ran out tunnel to the tune of Roamin in the Gloamin'! Quite clear too. Remember those days very well. Life was very different then with the troubles over the Irish Sea.

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk


I know the words to that song but refuse to share, in case you start singing this at Hibs games.

:wink:

[ben johnson]

I know the words to that song but refuse to share, in case you start singing this at Hibs games.

:wink:
Are you referring to the actual words to the song or the song that includes a
scud book and a vest ?