Self employed

[Thief]

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0122/amend/coronavirus_daily_cwh_0320rev.14-18.html


Just came across this on another forum, and looks like good news. Hopefully they’re going to fast track it [emoji1696]


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[BroxburnHibee]

That is good news.

I get we will pay for it in the long run but needs must.

[Dalianwanda]

Fingers crossed for you that this happens. My sis is self employed ballet teacher & like so many mates, getting no support. Over here we’re allowed €206 per week for 6 weeks. I’ve a bit of work that should keep me going for a couple more months as i’d like to hold off before claiming it.

[Hibs4185]

I haves new business I started 8 weeks ago. It’s been heaving. Just took on 2 new members of staff and 2 new vans. Was about to hire a new premises when this happened.

Because we don’t have a premises as such, we don’t qualify for any of the grants. On top of that we have 2 jobs finishing on Friday that we now can’t get finished and paid for.

We will be alright and we will still pay the new staff their full wages but we are a Ltd company so it’s crap that grants are only available to those with premises.

[Global Hibby]

HIBS4185

Sorry to hear about your business.

The governments loan scheme for businesses is vague but here is some clarity regarding it as things stand today. A bank will look favourably on a business loan which is good news but the downside is that you will have to give personal guarantees. The bank would look to recover the liability from you before going to goverment, so it’s really not much help to most businesses. This is part of the reason why the markets didn’t bounce back when announced. It was hoped that we would be in a V, which means straight down and straight back up economically. It’s either going to be a U or an L and hope that makes sense.

In regard to employee subsidy, you can have 80% of their earnings covered to the £2500k. But for the sake of clarity the individuals you employ can not do “ any “ work for you or for any other company. Failure to do this is benefit fraud and many companies and people are not realising this and Self employed do not get any top up either at this stage.

i have been campaigning on IR35 and am currently campaigning for goverment to change the policy around business loans and employee assistance.

Good Luck and if I can help drop me a mail.

[EI255]

Some more fortunate higher earning self employed people can't even sell their school-run SUV's to help fund things.

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[Brightside]

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0122/amend/coronavirus_daily_cwh_0320rev.14-18.html


Just came across this on another forum, and looks like good news. Hopefully they’re going to fast track it [emoji1696]


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It will be means tested though. So if you have any savings or if there are any other earners in your house you will get nothing.

[BroxburnHibee]

It's an amendment so not sure if it will pass anyway

[Global Hibby]

how is that helpful to people who have no earnings ? If they have to sell assets to survive with no goverment support then that’s an awful situation as they can’t borrow money to grow their businesses. Self employed people pay taxes and don’t have the same rights as employees. They have much more risk than an employee and indeed many of those people provide jobs for people. Also if a self employed person is below the VAT threshold that many are they generate 20% tax when I use them in my businesses and I can’t offset the VAT. It’s going to be those self employed people who take risks that will regrow our economy and create more jobs to replace those lost. It won’t be the very large companies who do this as they are already reducing people with AI and Robotics. There are many Hibs fans on this forum who are self employed and they should not be excluded from support.


Some more fortunate higher earning self employed people can't even sell their school-run SUV's to help fund things.

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[Global Hibby]

It's an amendment so not sure if it will pass anyway

correct and it’s very difficult times for all.

[Ozyhibby]

Some more fortunate higher earning self employed people can't even sell their school-run SUV's to help fund things.

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[emoji849]


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[Hibs4185]

HIBS4185

Sorry to hear about your business.

The governments loan scheme for businesses is vague but here is some clarity regarding it as things stand today. A bank will look favourably on a business loan which is good news but the downside is that you will have to give personal guarantees. The bank would look to recover the liability from you before going to goverment, so it’s really not much help to most businesses. This is part of the reason why the markets didn’t bounce back when announced. It was hoped that we would be in a V, which means straight down and straight back up economically. It’s either going to be a U or an L and hope that makes sense.

In regard to employee subsidy, you can have 80% of their earnings covered to the £2500k. But for the sake of clarity the individuals you employ can not do “ any “ work for you or for any other company. Failure to do this is benefit fraud and many companies and people are not realising this and Self employed do not get any top up either at this stage.

i have been campaigning on IR35 and am currently campaigning for goverment to change the policy around business loans and employee assistance.

Good Luck and if I can help drop me a mail.

Global Hibby thanks for your reply. I am trying to secure a premises just now without even viewing it. I just hope they don’t put a condition in, that states you need to have been a tenant for 3 months etc. As far as I can see there is no T&C’s at the moment. That £10k grant would really sort us out.

One of our guys chose to go down the self employed route so is sub contracted to us but I’m going to see if we can change him to PAYE for the new few months so we can continue to pay him and reclaim the 80%.

Again it’s dependent on the terms and conditions which don’t seem to be available.

It’s hard to get black and white advice though. Would be good to hear your thoughts on my plans

[bigwheel]

Global Hibby thanks for your reply. I am trying to secure a premises just now without even viewing it. I just hope they don’t put a condition in, that states you need to have been a tenant for 3 months etc. As far as I can see there is no T&C’s at the moment. That £10k grant would really sort us out.

One of our guys chose to go down the self employed route so is sub contracted to us but I’m going to see if we can change him to PAYE for the new few months so we can continue to pay him and reclaim the 80%.

Again it’s dependent on the terms and conditions which don’t seem to be available.

It’s hard to get black and white advice though. Would be good to hear your thoughts on my plans

Do you really want to take on increased fixed overhead costs into your business at this time ??

[Billy Whizz]

Do you really want to take on increased fixed overhead costs into your business at this time ??

You never know, he may be a toilet roll and sanitiser salesman😄

[H18 SFR]

Coming onto threads like this and reading about Hibees trying to help out Hibees really makes me feel good during what are terrible times for many employees/self-employed workers.

As a teacher with a guaranteed salary and a wife who is a Health Visitor in similar circumstances we realise how lucky we are, we feel helpless other than being able to buy stuff from local businesses.

We want a new bathroom so tried to contact a local small plumbing business in Ayr to see if they wanted some work just now but they've closed today as per UK Gov guidelines last night I've just been informed. We will put the work their way when they open.

[Thief]

It will be means tested though. So if you have any savings or if there are any other earners in your house you will get nothing.

I wasn’t aware of that. Not the best at reading these type of documents with the full on legal lingo but I have read it through again and can’t see any reference to means tested.

Have you read that elsewhere?


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[Fergos]

I left my full time job at the end of Feb to set up as self employed, spent the initial part of March setting up domains, logos, nailing down set up costs and financials. The sector I was going into has subsequently collapsed with the situation we find ourselves in.

Fortunate and thankful to have a little bit of savings to tide things over, not infinite unfortunately. The timing could not have been worse. A lot of folk are worse of than me however so it’s about appreciating what you have and trying to help others where you can.

Wishing my fellow Hibees and all folk good health.

GGTTH

[green day]

It will be means tested though. So if you have any savings or if there are any other earners in your house you will get nothing.


Makes no sense that the Self Employed help would be means tested and the Employed wont.

Firstly, that additional bureaucracy would add untold weeks to prove and hence defeat the tactical objective - which is to take Self Employed people away from work and get them to stay at home.

Secondly, the govt knows that Self Emp people wont forget if they are shafted - i.e. expected to shell out their future taxes when they were not helped at this time - that situation would simply lead to more tax fraud / black economy / cash jobs than happen at the moment.

[Col2]

Daft question but would someone who is self employed, has limited company but is a director with no employees and provides consultancy to clients be covered in this new development? In this scenario the official business address is home as can work from this base effectively but also works on client sites.

Or put it simply...an IT Contractor who is self employed.

[Hibs4185]

Do you really want to take on increased fixed overhead costs into your business at this time ??

Yeah because our self employed staff member can get a wage. Costs us more but I want to make sure he can support his family.

Also we are going to need a unit or office space in the future anyway so if we can get it now, we will qualify for the £10k grant which will pay the first years rent and give us some spare cash after.

If we couldn’t get the £10k grant, I wouldn’t think of taking on extra costs at this time.

It is amazing fellow Hibees helping out. There is more info on here than the Scottish government website. GGTTH

[Global Hibby]

Global Hibby thanks for your reply. I am trying to secure a premises just now without even viewing it. I just hope they don’t put a condition in, that states you need to have been a tenant for 3 months etc. As far as I can see there is no T&C’s at the moment. That £10k grant would really sort us out.

One of our guys chose to go down the self employed route so is sub contracted to us but I’m going to see if we can change him to PAYE for the new few months so we can continue to pay him and reclaim the 80%.

Again it’s dependent on the terms and conditions which don’t seem to be available.

It’s hard to get black and white advice though. Would be good to hear your thoughts on my plans

I don’t think the premises is really a good idea right now as what the goverment are doing at the moment is linked into history. I think the risk is greater than the gain re property unless you absolutely need it of course. Your good hearted intention to put your self employed contractor on payroll is also good one. Again right now the goverment are looking at the history as PAYE and you won’t have this for the person.

I really wish I could have said differently.

The other option is to apply to the bank for the loan. You could ask them to spread it over a very long period in time and the interest rates are very low. As an example to borrow £1m only costs around £20k in interest. So a loan of say £20k is not going to cost a lot in interest. The other option is if you have a mortgage which is capital and interest repayment and you have equity in the home you could switch to interest only with the likes of first direct and that would save you money. Hope that makes sense ?

sorry for any typos as multi tasking on calls but wanted to give you quick feedback

[Global Hibby]

I will answer some of the questions being raised later but if you are self employed via a LTD company and taking earnings via PAYE and dividend ...yes you should be able to claim 😊

[bigwheel]

Yeah because our self employed staff member can get a wage. Costs us more but I want to make sure he can support his family.

Also we are going to need a unit or office space in the future anyway so if we can get it now, we will qualify for the £10k grant which will pay the first years rent and give us some spare cash after.

If we couldn’t get the £10k grant, I wouldn’t think of taking on extra costs at this time.

It is amazing fellow Hibees helping out. There is more info on here than the Scottish government website. GGTTH

Not sure how the premises relates to your self employed staff member ..but not for me to concern
Myself with :)


Cashflow is king for small businesses just now and I wondered if you really wanted to commit yourself to regular expenditure at the moment ..anyway, don’t know your business - delighted to hear it has started well. All the best [emoji106][emoji106]

[CropleyWasGod]

Daft question but would someone who is self employed, has limited company but is a director with no employees and provides consultancy to clients be covered in this new development? In this scenario the official business address is home as can work from this base effectively but also works on client sites.

Or put it simply...an IT Contractor who is self employed.

I'm guessing that, like most IT contractors, you pay yourself a minimal salary, and top up your income by way of dividends.

If that's the case, you would be able to claim 80% of your salary, about £575 per month, but only if you furlough yourself, ie don't work.

The wider issue is the income of your company. Once the question of the self-employed sole trader has been sorted, that is the next area for the Government to deal with.

[HoboHarry]

I'm guessing that, like most IT contractors, you pay yourself a minimal salary, and top up your income by way of dividends.

If that's the case, you would be able to claim 80% of your salary, about £575 per month, but only if you furlough yourself, ie don't work.

The wider issue is the income of your company. Once the question of the self-employed sole trader has been sorted, that is the next area for the Government to deal with.
Seriously mate - glad to see you back on here. Stay well during these strange times.......

[CropleyWasGod]

Seriously mate - glad to see you back on here. Stay well during these strange times.......

Back on here? Stay well?

:greengrin

Um... thanks :aok:

[HoboHarry]

Back on here? Stay well?

:greengrin

Um... thanks :aok:
Haven't seen a post from you in ages - regardless, glad to see you posting.....

[CropleyWasGod]

Haven't seen a post from you in ages - regardless, glad to see you posting.....

I meant "how can I stay well if I'm back on here?"

:greengrin

[HoboHarry]

I meant "how can I stay well if I'm back on here?"

:greengrin
Oh my bad, here was me thinking that whoosh sound I heard was a bird too..... :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Back on here? Stay well?

:greengrin

Um... thanks :aok:

I assume that you are back because there may well be the demise of a football club or two 😉

[Col2]

I'm guessing that, like most IT contractors, you pay yourself a minimal salary, and top up your income by way of dividends.

If that's the case, you would be able to claim 80% of your salary, about £575 per month, but only if you furlough yourself, ie don't work.

The wider issue is the income of your company. Once the question of the self-employed sole trader has been sorted, that is the next area for the Government to deal with.

Thanks. Jeez that’s not great. Dividends go through Paye so I would have thought it would be my total income - salary + dividends. But maybe not then.

[HoboHarry]

I assume that you are back because there may well be the demise of a football club or two 😉
CWG heading out to the office......23107

[Billy Whizz]

I meant "how can I stay well if I'm back on here?"

:greengrin

Because there’s no football to moan about on here

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks. Jeez that’s not great. Dividends go through Paye so I would have thought it would be my total income - salary + dividends. But maybe not then.

Your dividends won't be through PAYE, but your salary will.

Like I say, the question of the sole-director company has still to be resolved. They surprised us last week with the help for the employed, and there may be a similar package for you guys this week.

[BroxburnHibee]

Martin Lewis says something could be announced by end of the week but may be next week but hes absolutely certain something is being sorted.

[Onceinawhile]

Thanks. Jeez that’s not great. Dividends go through Paye so I would have thought it would be my total income - salary + dividends. But maybe not then.

Dividends are discretionary income dependant on your companies profit, so there can't really be any way for the government to cover it.

[Onceinawhile]

I will answer some of the questions being raised later but if you are self employed via a LTD company and taking earnings via PAYE and dividend ...yes you should be able to claim 😊

You can't be self employed via a Ltd company though.

If you have a Ltd company you are an employee - usually a director. The Ltd company is a separate entity.

If you're self employed, there's no separate legal entity.

[Northernhibee]

There needs to be a universal income for the next three months or so. I was made redundant last Thursday and it looks like I'm not going to be able to get any Jobseekers Allowance through Universal Credit due to my partner working. She works her socks off herself and it's grim that I'm going to have to mooch off of her for goodness knows.

Managed to get a temp job but it's six hours a week for a month. Not even close to what I need to cover my personal outgoings.

[Fergos]

There needs to be a universal income for the next three months or so. I was made redundant last Thursday and it looks like I'm not going to be able to get any Jobseekers Allowance through Universal Credit due to my partner working. She works her socks off herself and it's grim that I'm going to have to mooch off of her for goodness knows.

Managed to get a temp job but it's six hours a week for a month. Not even close to what I need to cover my personal outgoings.

Sorry to hear that NH, been there twice myself in recent years.

Not sure if this is your game or if you would be interested but I seen some news on social media about Tesco hiring, think it’s temp but may be an option of more hours and £ for you bud. They will be needing drivers for home deliveries soon too I’d imagine.

All the best

GGTTH

[Billy Whizz]

There needs to be a universal income for the next three months or so. I was made redundant last Thursday and it looks like I'm not going to be able to get any Jobseekers Allowance through Universal Credit due to my partner working. She works her socks off herself and it's grim that I'm going to have to mooch off of her for goodness knows.

Managed to get a temp job but it's six hours a week for a month. Not even close to what I need to cover my personal outgoings.

Loads of wholesalers like Booker and Batleys looking for staff. Maybe something short term to tide you over

Check their websites

[Global Hibby]

You can't be self employed via a Ltd company though.

If you have a Ltd company you are an employee - usually a director. The Ltd company is a separate entity.

If you're self employed, there's no separate legal entity.

i agree that’s what I was going to explain...there is confusion what sled employed is and 😊😊👌

[Global Hibby]

Loads of wholesalers like Booker and Batleys looking for staff. Maybe something short term to tide you over

Check their websites

What was your role ?

[Global Hibby]

If anyone is looking at working with supermarkets be quick......the British Retailers are looking at enabling retailers who are closed to provide their people to supermarkets.

Be quick to take up those roles

[Liam6270]

Is it 80% of what self employed hide or actually tell the taxman?

[green day]

Is it 80% of what self employed hide or actually tell the taxman?

Think you have just outed yourself as a twat

[Ozyhibby]

From what they were saying on Peston last night it looks like it will be based on last years tax return provided you earn less than £31k. They thought the percentage may be lower than 80% though.


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[B.H.F.C]

From what they were saying on Peston last night it looks like it will be based on last years tax return provided you earn less than £31k. They thought the percentage may be lower than 80% though.


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Interesting to see what they do for those who’ve only recently went self employed.

[Ozyhibby]

Interesting to see what they do for those who’ve only recently went self employed.

Maybe nothing. They were saying that the govt have pretty much accepted that some will fall through the cracks.


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[easty]

Is it 80% of what self employed hide or actually tell the taxman?


Think you have just outed yourself as a twat

Bit harsh when he was clearly making a joke, especially given that you said yourself, in a previous post in this thread, that folk shaft the tax...

[green day]

Bit harsh when he was clearly making a joke, especially given that you said yourself, in a previous post in this thread, that folk shaft the tax...

Harsh?

He is making the - incorrect - assumption that "The self employed" cheat the taxman, in my post (which I will repost below) I never said that "folk shaft the tax", I was describing a situation that I predict will happen if the govt didnt support self emp at this crucial time.

What I said was -

Secondly, the govt knows that Self Emp people wont forget if they are shafted - i.e. expected to shell out their future taxes when they were not helped at this time - that situation would simply lead to more tax fraud / black economy / cash jobs than happen at the moment.

For what its worth, 99% of my income is invoiced via bank account or paid on my chip and pin machine. You or he might want to explain how I screw the taxmen there.

Anyone who is employed and is being supported by their employer might want to spend a month or two in our shoes - going from decent to zero income - before posting crap.

[Ozyhibby]

There are 5 million self employed people and I would say they had their fair share of Tory voters. If by the end of today they feel they are not being looked after the same way the rest of the population then the govt could pay a price for this in the future. People remember who was there for them when it was needed most.


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[green day]

There are 5 million self employed people and I would say they had their fair share of Tory voters. If by the end of today they feel they are not being looked after the same way the rest of the population then the govt could pay a price for this in the future. People remember who was there for them when it was needed most.


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A less emotional and accurate summary of what I was trying to say :aok:

..........although not the Tory bit :greengrin

[Billy Whizz]

There are 5 million self employed people and I would say they had their fair share of Tory voters. If by the end of today they feel they are not being looked after the same way the rest of the population then the govt could pay a price for this in the future. People remember who was there for them when it was needed most.


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Suggestion doing the rounds, that the self employed maybe evaluated on the dividends they pay themselves
Should all become clearer tonight

[easty]

Harsh?

He is making the - incorrect - assumption that "The self employed" cheat the taxman, in my post (which I will repost below) I never said that "folk shaft the tax", I was describing a situation that I predict will happen if the govt didnt support self emp at this crucial time.

What I said was -

Secondly, the govt knows that Self Emp people wont forget if they are shafted - i.e. expected to shell out their future taxes when they were not helped at this time - that situation would simply lead to more tax fraud / black economy / cash jobs than happen at the moment.

For what its worth, 99% of my income is invoiced via bank account or paid on my chip and pin machine. You or he might want to explain how I screw the taxmen there.

Anyone who is employed and is being supported by their employer might want to spend a month or two in our shoes - going from decent to zero income - before posting crap.

Aye, harsh.

The bit in bold, that you posted, infers that it happens. Nobody is saying you do it, absolutely nobody. Guy makes a joke and you call him a twat.

Harsh.

I've plenty mates who are struggling self employed just now, some do, some don't do the books right. They're all struggling.

If you think my post is crap...ignore it, or block me, I don't care.

[green day]

Aye, harsh.

If you think my post is crap...ignore it, or block me, I don't care.

If I think something you (or anyone) says - about a subject that apparently doesnt affect you - then I will let you know.

I dont block people, I think that everyone is entitled to their opinion even if I dont agree with it.

[Ozyhibby]

Aye, harsh.

The bit in bold, that you posted, infers that it happens. Nobody is saying you do it, absolutely nobody. Guy makes a joke and you call him a twat.

Harsh.

I've plenty mates who are struggling self employed just now, some do, some don't do the books right. They're all struggling.

If you think my post is crap...ignore it, or block me, I don't care.

And a lot of people don’t choose to be self employed but have been forced into that situation by successive governments desire to have a flexible workforce. A lot of self employed people would love to be PAYE but the option is just not there in their industry.
I don’t include myself there. I love being self employed and have only ever been PAYE once since I left school as a part time waiter in the early 90’s. I love the flexibility and I’m wholly unsuited to working for other people for any length of time.


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[easty]

If I think something you (or anyone) says - about a subject that apparently doesnt affect you - then I will let you know.

I dont block people, I think that everyone is entitled to their opinion even if I dont agree with it.

And if I think you're out of order for calling someone a twat, I'll let you know :aok:

[greenlex]

No expert here but a system related to taxes paid would surely be relatively easy to administer for self employed? There might be a few twitchy ***** for the tax abusers if that was to transpire. Undeclared income been used to live off for years and nothing coming in with no help to replace it might focus a few minds on their social responsibilities. I doubt it would last mind.

[easty]

And a lot of people don’t choose to be self employed but have been forced into that situation by successive governments desire to have a flexible workforce. A lot of self employed people would love to be PAYE but the option is just not there in their industry.



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I'm not sure what this has to do with my post to be honest, but I agree with you. I've never suggested otherwise.

Further, I absolutely think the government has been too slow to act with helping out the self-employed.

[marinello59]

Suggestion doing the rounds, that the self employed maybe evaluated on the dividends they pay themselves
Should all become clearer tonight

Surely that only applies to those paying themselves through a limited company. Which means they are employed and their PAYE wage is already covered if they put themselves on furlough.

[CropleyWasGod]

Surely that only applies to those paying themselves through a limited company. Which means they are employed and their PAYE wage is already covered if they put themselves on furlough.

I think there are 2 things being confused here.

Self-employed people don't pay dividends, as you say. But there is an issue with those who have a one-person Limited Company, and who might define themselves as s/e. They normally pay themselves a low salary, at the NI threshold, and take the rest of their money as dividends.

They can furlough themselves, but the most they will receive from HMRC is about £575 per month. That's obviously not enough, which is where the suggestion that their help should be based on dividends comes from.

That, in itself, is fraught with difficulty, but it does make some sense.

[The Modfather]

Aye, harsh.

The bit in bold, that you posted, infers that it happens. Nobody is saying you do it, absolutely nobody. Guy makes a joke and you call him a twat.

Harsh.

I've plenty mates who are struggling self employed just now, some do, some don't do the books right. They're all struggling.

If you think my post is crap...ignore it, or block me, I don't care.

Out of interest, what/how is it they do with their books?

[easty]

Out of interest, what/how is it they do with their books?

I dunno, it's not me doing it. I am and always have been PAYE.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, and I think you know exactly what I mean.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not sure what this has to do with my post to be honest, but I agree with you. I've never suggested otherwise.

Further, I absolutely think the government has been too slow to act with helping out the self-employed.

I was agreeing with you and adding another point of my own.[emoji3]


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[marinello59]

I think there are 2 things being confused here.

Self-employed people don't pay dividends, as you say. But there is an issue with those who have a one-person Limited Company, and who might define themselves as s/e. They normally pay themselves a low salary, at the NI threshold, and take the rest of their money as dividends.

They can furlough themselves, but the most they will receive from HMRC is about £575 per month. That's obviously not enough, which is where the suggestion that their help should be based on dividends comes from.

That, in itself, is fraught with difficulty, but it does make some sense.:greengrin

Yes, I get that.
When the Government is struggling with the technical aspects of this though it is going to be easy for them to leave those of us who used a Ltd company in limbo as they point out that that dividends were used to avoid paying NI.
By the way, I’m not saying that is the correct course of action for them to take.��

[The Modfather]

I dunno, it's not me doing it. I am and always have been PAYE.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, and I think you know exactly what I mean.

I was genuinely curious about what your mates did/do.

I’m now through an Umbrella company (not through choice) so it’s academic to me now. However previously I did my own returns, and while I tried to manage things as smartly and tax efficiently as possible. I don’t see how I could “fiddle” the books as such. Might be different for those who work cash in hand.

[easty]

I was genuinely curious about what your mates did/do.

I’m now through an Umbrella company (not through choice) so it’s academic to me now. However previously I did my own returns, and while I tried to manage things as smartly and tax efficiently as possible. I don’t see how I could “fiddle” the books as such. Might be different for those who work cash in hand.

Under report income.

[Onceinawhile]

Suggestion doing the rounds, that the self employed maybe evaluated on the dividends they pay themselves
Should all become clearer tonight

Self employed people cannot pay themselves dividends.

[CropleyWasGod]

:greengrin

Yes, I get that.
When the Government is struggling with the technical aspects of this though it is going to be easy for them to leave those of us who used a Ltd company in limbo as they point out that that dividends were used to avoid paying NI.
By the way, I’m not saying that is the correct course of action for them to take.��

Sorry, my response was more for Billy than you. Sorry if it sounded like I was teaching my auntie how to suck eggs, or whatever it is 😆

[Billy Whizz]

Sorry, my response was more for Billy than you. Sorry if it sounded like I was teaching my auntie how to suck eggs, or whatever it is 😆

Thanks CWG

[marinello59]

Sorry, my response was more for Billy than you. Sorry if it sounded like I was teaching my auntie how to suck eggs, or whatever it is 😆

No need to apologise, you are the expert. :thumbsup:

[lord bunberry]

The support for self employed people is coming through income support. Having just checked, that benefit is means tested. Does anyone know if that’s the case?

[Moulin Yarns]

Is it 80% of what self employed hide or actually tell the taxman?

Well that's me screwed.

Not made an operating profit for any of the last three years as self employed.

[BroxburnHibee]

Having to wait until June is gonna put me under pressure

[DH1875]

So in order to get money in June my business needs to still be operating in June? If I'm not out earning by then, I've no chance.

[Hibby Bairn]

I don’t see the reason behind delaying 4 weeks to allow people who haven’t “yet filed their Jan tax return” be allowed to participate.

If you have filed then easy to calculate so pay now. If you haven’t then that’s your problem so you’ll have to wait.

[CropleyWasGod]

I don’t see the reason behind delaying 4 weeks to allow people who haven’t “yet filed their Jan tax return” be allowed to participate.

If you have filed then easy to calculate so pay now. If you haven’t then that’s your problem so you’ll have to wait.

I don't think that's what they're saying.

Those who haven't yet filed their 2019 Returns have 4 weeks to file, otherwise they won't get anything.

IMO, the delay until June is more about getting the systems in place, and the money of course.

[CropleyWasGod]

The support for self employed people is coming through income support. Having just checked, that benefit is means tested. Does anyone know if that’s the case?

It's means-tested in the sense that it's based on your last 3 years' income.

[lord bunberry]

It's means-tested in the sense that it's based on your last 3 years' income.
Will they take in to account how much my partner is earning as that’s the normal way of calculating income support.

[CropleyWasGod]

Will they take in to account how much my partner is earning as that’s the normal way of calculating income support.

It's not income support.

As far as I understand it,(and it is early days, in my defence :greengrin) it's based on only your income.

And it's taxable.

[Keyser Sauzee]

I filed for 17/18 & 18/19 in January but haven’t actually paid my bill yet, I’m thinking this will mean I won’t be eligible for this scheme.

[Ozyhibby]

I filed for 17/18 & 18/19 in January but haven’t actually paid my bill yet, I’m thinking this will mean I won’t be eligible for this scheme.

I doubt it. So long as you have filed your accounts then that’s all that counts.


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[BroxburnHibee]

Its backdated so I'm assuming the June payment will be the first 3 months

[Keyser Sauzee]

I doubt it. So long as you have filed your accounts then that’s all that counts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m hoping so, although I do have quite a big bill for late fees for 17/18 which I’m hoping won’t impact me.

[lord bunberry]

It's not income support.

As far as I understand it,(and it is early days, in my defence :greengrin) it's based on only your income.

And it's taxable.
I must’ve picked him up wrong, I thought he said it would be paid through the income support benefit. It’s good to that I’m wrong again :greengrin

[Billy Whizz]

Its backdated so I'm assuming the June payment will be the first 3 months

Said you’d get all 3 payments in a oner in June

Martin Lewis is discussing this tonight on his show, 8.30pm on STV

[CropleyWasGod]

I’m hoping so, although I do have quite a big bill for late fees for 17/18 which I’m hoping won’t impact me.

The chances are they will deduct what you are due them before they pay you anything. That's HMRC's normal way of doing things.

[CropleyWasGod]

I must’ve picked him up wrong, I thought he said it would be paid through the income support benefit. It’s good to that I’m wrong again :greengrin

In your defence, I think it's confusing, as it's called Self-employment Income Support

[Keyser Sauzee]

The chances are they will deduct what you are due them before they pay you anything. That's HMRC's normal way of doing things.

So if my outstanding bill is bigger than what I would be eligible for then I’m likely to get nothing?

[CropleyWasGod]

So if my outstanding bill is bigger than what I would be eligible for then I’m likely to get nothing?

In the normal course of things, yes.

But these are not normal times. :cb

[Thief]

“More than half your total income comes from self employment”

Anyone with knowledge of these things know why he included this clause?


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[Keyser Sauzee]

In the normal course of things, yes.

But these are not normal times. :cb

Thanks CWG, here’s hoping they are lenient with me. Otherwise it’s Universal Credit for me.

[McD]

“More than half your total income comes from self employment”

Anyone with knowledge of these things know why he included this clause?


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From an utterly unknowledgeable place, is it maybe to address people who have an employee job, and also work for themselves in a second job?

such as a lorry driver who does a 4on 4off shift, and on his off days is a self employed landscaper?

[stoneyburn hibs]

The cap is actually higher than PAYE.

[Ozyhibby]

Would income from property count in self employed income?


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[Billy Whizz]

Would income from property count in self employed income?


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How do you pay it, through a limited Company?

[CropleyWasGod]

Would income from property count in self employed income?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd doubt it.

[patch1875]

So I’m a limited company with just me as sole director.

This is relevant to me?

[Ozyhibby]

I'd doubt it.

Bugger.[emoji35] I suspected so but I was hopeful.


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[Ozyhibby]

How do you pay it, through a limited Company?

Sole trader.


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[CropleyWasGod]

So I’m a limited company with just me as sole director.

This is relevant to me?

No, it's specifically excluded.

Hopefully, your situation will be addressed next.

[Billy Whizz]

Sole trader.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m not CWG, so I presume you’re entitlement will be based on your dividend payments

[Global Hibby]

So I’m a limited company with just me as sole director.

This is relevant to me?

Sorry to say that Directors can’t furlough based on the current announcements.

[patch1875]

Sorry to say that Directors can’t furlough based on the current announcements.

Yeah pretty much shafted must be plenty people in the same set up.

[patch1875]

No. But if you are drawing a wage you can furlough yourself.

Can you though? Doesn’t seem very clear.

[marinello59]

Can you though? Doesn’t seem very clear.

I’d deleted that comment while I tried to check. I would assume you could as effectively you are an employee of the company if you are on the pay roll.

[CropleyWasGod]

I’d deleted that comment while I tried to check. I would assume you could as effectively you are an employee of the company if you are on the pay roll.

I don't see why you can't.

As you say, you're an employee. If you aren't actually working, then it's justifiable to furlough yourself and claim the 80%.

[marinello59]

Can you though? Doesn’t seem very clear.

I’d deleted that comment while I tried to check. I would assume you could as effectively you are an employee of the company if you are on the pay roll.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yeah pretty much shafted must be plenty people in the same set up.

My hope is that you guys will be next in the queue.

That said, if sorting out the s/e was complicated, you will be even more so. :greengrin


A wee aside for the s/e. There was a heavy hint today that, if and when we get back to normal, there will be major changes to tax legislation that will not be good news.

[BroxburnHibee]

My hope is that you guys will be next in the queue.

That said, if sorting out the s/e was complicated, you will be even more so. :greengrin


A wee aside for the s/e. There was a heavy hint today that, if and when we get back to normal, there will be major changes to tax legislation that will not be good news.

Not in the least surprised.

Whatever help we get will need to be paid back in some form.

[KeithTheHibby]

Help.

I’m a director of my own company.
I pay myself a salary as per my accountant.
This is pretty much a basic wage however I actually withdraw from my bank each month considerably more.
When final accounts are done each year and my tax computation is worked out my earnings statement is topped up with dividends.
I was convinced I fell into the self employed bracket but that doesn’t appear to be the case?

[CropleyWasGod]

Help.

I’m a director of my own company.
I pay myself a salary as per my accountant.
This is pretty much a basic wage however I actually withdraw from my bank each month considerably more.
When final accounts are done each year and my tax computation is worked out my earnings statement is topped up with dividends.
I was convinced I fell into the self employed bracket but that doesn’t appear to be the case?

See above :greengrin

Your situation has yet to be clarified. Hopefully, you will be next.

[Global Hibby]

In today announcement it was stated that directors can not be furloughed as directors have responsibilities to run the company even in like these. There is of course not an issue for that director to seek another job and continue as a director. The news sucks and I am told it’s highly doubtful to be changed....I hope that changes.

[KeithTheHibby]

See above :greengrin

Your situation has yet to be clarified. Hopefully, you will be next.

Cheers CWG, appreciated.


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[green day]

Would income from property count in self employed income?


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It definitely doesnt if you mean renting out a flat...............It does if you run your own property development company.

[CropleyWasGod]

It definitely doesnt if you mean renting out a flat...............It does if you run your own property development company.

A property development company isn't self employment either.

[WoreTheGreen]

Does anyone know the 80% is based on net or gross wage

[danhibees1875]

Does anyone know the 80% is based on net or gross wage

My understanding is that it's gross as you'll then be taxed on it from there - given you're being taxed on a smaller number you'll then end up with slightly more than 80% of your regular net pay.

[WoreTheGreen]

My understanding is that it's gross as you'll then be taxed on it from there - given you're being taxed on a smaller number you'll then end up with slightly more than 80% of your regular net pay.

Thanks for your reply

[Moulin Yarns]

Any idea what happens for people on zero hours contract? Please.

[CropleyWasGod]

Any idea what happens for people on zero hours contract? Please.

This is as clear as I can find. From the Guardian:-

I’m on a zero-hours contract and have been sent home


The pledge to meet 80% of wages applies to everyone who is on PAYE – that is, taxed before they are paid.

It is not clear what figure the 80% will be based on. The chancellor, Rishi Sunak, has said it will probably involve some kind of smoothing of earnings – that is to say it could be based on an average of recent weeks’ pay so you are not out of pocket if your last week’s wages were much lower than the previous week’s.

[RyeSloan]

Would it not have been easier and quicker to simply implement some sort of helicopter money policy.

Simply provide x£ to every household / taxpayer in the country?

Might have ended up more expensive and of course given something to some that don’t ‘needs it but may well have been much quicker and also ensured less fell through the cracks?

[green day]

A property development company isn't self employment either.

Fair point, went off piste a bit there:aok:

I was just trotting out the line the taxman uses to stop people claiming certain reliefs as renting out a flat is deemed different from running a property business.

[Moulin Yarns]

This is as clear as I can find. From the Guardian:-

I’m on a zero-hours contract and have been sent home


The pledge to meet 80% of wages applies to everyone who is on PAYE – that is, taxed before they are paid.

It is not clear what figure the 80% will be based on. The chancellor, Rishi Sunak, has said it will probably involve some kind of smoothing of earnings – that is to say it could be based on an average of recent weeks’ pay so you are not out of pocket if your last week’s wages were much lower than the previous week’s.

Cheers, the situation I'm thinking of is a person working seasonally in a tourist dependent retail environment. They work from Easter to October and covered for full time staff on leave.

Might only have worked maybe 28 hours in the last month.


Edit: they are due to start regular work from 13 April, and the employer has confirmed that they will get 80% from that date.

[Ozyhibby]

Reading through it all this morning (I was a bit drowsy last night after the hospital) and it looks like I don’t qualify as less than half my income is self employed. No complaints because if everyone else is supported then my business will be ok.


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[patch1875]

It now seems that limited company/sole directors can furlough themselves.

[CropleyWasGod]

It now seems that limited company/sole directors can furlough themselves.

Where are you seeing that?

I have seen arguments, from good sources, for and against.

[Billy Whizz]

Where are you seeing that?

I have seen arguments, from good sources, for and against.

I’d be interested to see where that came from too

[patch1875]

Martin Lewis

[patch1875]

Hopefully it’s true the actual gov advice doesn’t seem to say you can’t.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hopefully it’s true the actual gov advice doesn’t seem to say you can’t.

Thanks. I've just watched it.

I hope HMG do give clarity on this. It's still only £525 per month, but better than nothing which is what some decent sources were suggesting.

[KeithTheHibby]

Thanks. I've just watched it.

I hope HMG do give clarity on this. It's still only £525 per month, but better than nothing which is what some decent sources were suggesting.

How do you arrive at that figure CWG?

[CropleyWasGod]

How do you arrive at that figure CWG?

Sorry, it should be £575.

The common amount for directors' salary in a small company is £719 per month, the NI threshold. It's 80% of that.

Next month the salary will change to £791, of which 80% is £633.

[CropleyWasGod]

For those of you who were contractors, I've just heard of one major company who have decided to defer the IR35 provisions for a year, as now allowed.

[patch1875]

Sorry, it should be £575.

The common amount for directors' salary in a small company is £719 per month, the NI threshold. It's 80% of that.

Next month the salary will change to £791, of which 80% is £633.

I’ve always paid myself about 1k a month so hopefully I might get a bit more.

[CropleyWasGod]

I’ve always paid myself about 1k a month so hopefully I might get a bit more.

As salary?

[jonty]

For those of you who were contractors, I've just heard of one major company who have decided to defer the IR35 provisions for a year, as now allowed.

a bit late for many.


Spill the beans :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

a bit late for many.


Spill the beans :greengrin

:lips seal

TBH, I think they've got themselves out of a hole. I reckon they started their review of the contractors too late, ran out of time, and got to a point where they said "sod it, you're all employees, and no appeals."

They now have a year to do a proper status review, and maybe save themselves some money (and some decent contractors) as a result.

[jonty]

:lips seal

TBH, I think they've got themselves out of a hole. I reckon they started their review of the contractors too late, ran out of time, and got to a point where they said "sod it, you're all employees, and no appeals."

They now have a year to do a proper status review, and maybe save themselves some money (and some decent contractors) as a result.

It might still be too late for them if their contractors have jumped umbrella/paye and closed their companies

I fortunately managed to avoid that with a contract in public sector, outside ir35. I thought 12 months would be plenty of time to let financial services get their act together. It might not be long enough now :greengrin

[patch1875]

As salary?

Yes and a quarterly dividend.

[KeithTheHibby]

Yes and a quarterly dividend.

Likewise.

My accountant each month puts through a payslip for me around £800. I top that up with another 1k roughly which shows as dividends in the company accounts.
At the moment I’m so confused how much I’m likely to be entitled to.

[Onceinawhile]

I’ve always paid myself about 1k a month so hopefully I might get a bit more.

Then you should get 800 a month based on 1k a month salary.

[Onceinawhile]

Likewise.

My accountant each month puts through a payslip for me around £800. I top that up with another 1k roughly which shows as dividends in the company accounts.
At the moment I’m so confused how much I’m likely to be entitled to.

At the moment, it looks likely to be 80% of the £800 and nothing for the dividends as of yet.

Hopefully your Ltd has some cash reserves and you can take a slightly higher dividend?

[CropleyWasGod]

HMRC advice has been updated. They have confirmed that directors of small companies can be furloughed.

They can continue to attend to the company's statutory duties, but can't generate income for the company, if they are furloughed.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

[Billy Whizz]

HMRC advice has been updated. They have confirmed that directors of small companies can be furloughed.

They can continue to attend to the company's statutory duties, but can't generate income for the company, if they are furloughed.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

Thanks for posting

[patch1875]

I’m still managing to work and been really busy, good to know the option is there but not really going to pay many of the regular bills.

[brianmc]

HMRC advice has been updated. They have confirmed that directors of small companies can be furloughed.

They can continue to attend to the company's statutory duties, but can't generate income for the company, if they are furloughed.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

My wife is a contractor and Director of a Ltd Company, she has read the details in the link but wasn't sure if it was confirming you would receive 80% of your day rate or if it was still 80% of the salary you have taken through paye and if
the claim for furlough has to be done through her agency. Can you confirm any of these details. Thanks

[CropleyWasGod]

My wife is a contractor and Director of a Ltd Company, she has read the details in the link but wasn't sure if it was confirming you would receive 80% of your day rate or if it was still 80% of the salary you have taken through paye and if
the claim for furlough has to be done through her agency. Can you confirm any of these details. Thanks

If she pays herself a salary from the company, it's 80% of that salary.

And the furlough has to be done through the company as well. As far as I know, the portal for declaring her to be furloughed isn't yet open.

Presumably, the company invoices the agency for the day-rate. Is that correct?

[brianmc]

Yeah she invoices the agency, she said she though it was only the salary but wasn't sure how it read. She will keep an eye on HMRC website for it opening then to process it herself. Thanks

[Billy Whizz]

A wee heads on anyone who’s Furloughed an employee. You need to register online with your Company PAYE details

The bit I’m not sure about, is do you register your own name or company name

https://www.gov.uk/paye-online/enrol

[StevieC]

A wee heads on anyone who’s Furloughed an employee. You need to register online with your Company PAYE details

The bit I’m not sure about, is do you register your own name or company name

https://www.gov.uk/paye-online/enrol

I assume this is just to ensure they are registered online for those that might still do it manually rather than using the PAYE software?

Did they not do away with manual submissions a while ago? I seem to remember something about phasing in the online software for all employees.

I got an email yesterday saying that they are closer to having the online claim process ready, and a further email will be sent in due course.

[Billy Whizz]

I assume this is just to ensure they are registered online for those that might still do it manually rather than using the PAYE software?

Did they not do away with manual submissions a while ago? I seem to remember something about phasing in the online software for all employees.

I got an email yesterday saying that they are closer to having the online claim process ready, and a further email will be sent in due course.

My accountant does my PAYE, but they said there was no way they could do this for every client, so told me to sign up

[StevieC]

My accountant does my PAYE, but they said there was no way they could do this for every client, so told me to sign up

This was in the email I got yesterday from HMRC.

“ If you’re eligible for the scheme, there are things that you can do now to be ready when the system is up and running later this month.

You’ll need to provide the following to make a claim:

The bank account number and sort code you’d like us to use when we pay your claim.

The name and phone number of the person in your business for us to call with any questions.

Your Self-Assessment UTR (Unique Tax Reference), Company UTR or CRN (Company Registration Number).

The name, employee number and National Insurance number for each of your furloughed employees.

The total amount being claimed for all employees and the total furlough period.

If you use an agent who is authorised to act for you for PAYE purposes, they will be able to make a claim on your behalf, so please speak to them now.”


I’m not sure how you are meant to work out the amount you are claiming for when we’ve no idea how long the Furlough will last??
But I assume this question will be getting asked and they’ll have an answer by the time they are ready to start taking applications.

[ronaldo7]

This was in the email I got yesterday from HMRC.

“ If you’re eligible for the scheme, there are things that you can do now to be ready when the system is up and running later this month.

You’ll need to provide the following to make a claim:

The bank account number and sort code you’d like us to use when we pay your claim.

The name and phone number of the person in your business for us to call with any questions.

Your Self-Assessment UTR (Unique Tax Reference), Company UTR or CRN (Company Registration Number).

The name, employee number and National Insurance number for each of your furloughed employees.

The total amount being claimed for all employees and the total furlough period.


If you use an agent who is authorised to act for you for PAYE purposes, they will be able to make a claim on your behalf, so please speak to them now.”


I’m not sure how you are meant to work out the amount you are claiming for when we’ve no idea how long the Furlough will last??
But I assume this question will be getting asked and they’ll have an answer by the time they are ready to start taking applications.

Furlough periods last 3 weeks, so I think you have to claim for the whole 3 weeks.

[CropleyWasGod]

A wee heads on anyone who’s Furloughed an employee. You need to register online with your Company PAYE details

The bit I’m not sure about, is do you register your own name or company name

https://www.gov.uk/paye-online/enrol

If the employer is the company, that is the name you should use.

As Stevie says, though, every employer should be registered online now.

Edit... just read your later post.

Your company will already be registered, but your accountant is suggesting that "you" take over the administration of the payroll. That will need you to get log-in details from HMRC for your company.

I'm surprised at your accountant, though. I thought they would have been glad of the work.

[Billy Whizz]

If the employer is the company, that is the name you should use.

As Stevie says, though, every employer should be registered online now.

Edit... just read your later post.

Your company will already be registered, but your accountant is suggesting that "you" take over the administration of the payroll. That will need you to get log-in details from HMRC for your company.

I'm surprised at your accountant, though. I thought they would have been glad of the work.

Crops, thanks for the feedback, they’ve told all their clients to register, just a small family firm who are under staffed

I’ll need to do it again, as I used my name rather than the Company name

[hibeg]

My son is self employed, sole trader. He knows he can’t get a payment till end June but was told by somebody that he should expect a letter sometime from HMRC explaining everything !

Is that the case ?
Are other sole traders still waiting for a letter or have they contacted HMRC direct ?

[CropleyWasGod]

My son is self employed, sole trader. He knows he can’t get a payment till end June but was told by somebody that he should expect a letter sometime from HMRC explaining everything !

Is that the case ?
Are other sole traders still waiting for a letter or have they contacted HMRC direct ?

There is no application process as such. As you say, HMRC will be in touch. As I understand it, they will write with their assessment of the amount due, and it will be for your son to confirm his agreement.

I'm not sure what happens if he doesn't agree.

[Smartie]

I received an update from a specialist accountant in my field this morning.

"Although we have heard of a small number of receipts in the Edinburgh Council territory it is fair to say that their team appear to be the most challenged in the country at this time and many have found they still await any communication for early submissions. It is hoped that this bottleneck experience will be relieved shortly to ease cash concerns at this time of need."

If, like me, anyone is waiting for the £10k local authority grant, it appears that Edinburgh are either busier or are making harder work of things than other Scottish authorities.

Looks like we just need to be patient. Not easy when you're facing up to having to pay your second wage bill after having had revenue cut by 90% and with the furlough scheme yet to kick in.

[hibeg]

Thanks for that CWG. Yes I had a quick look myself after originally posting. Looks like they will hopefully be in touch mid May.
He moved house just before lockdown so will have to inform them of change of address
He never thought of that 😂

[Onceinawhile]

I received an update from a specialist accountant in my field this morning.

"Although we have heard of a small number of receipts in the Edinburgh Council territory it is fair to say that their team appear to be the most challenged in the country at this time and many have found they still await any communication for early submissions. It is hoped that this bottleneck experience will be relieved shortly to ease cash concerns at this time of need."

If, like me, anyone is waiting for the £10k local authority grant, it appears that Edinburgh are either busier or are making harder work of things than other Scottish authorities.

Looks like we just need to be patient. Not easy when you're facing up to having to pay your second wage bill after having had revenue cut by 90% and with the furlough scheme yet to kick in.

I know of a business in Edinburgh that has managed to get the 10k grant. So they are working in it. Hopefully yours won't be long in coming.

[hibeg]

There is no application process as such. As you say, HMRC will be in touch. As I understand it, they will write with their assessment of the amount due, and it will be for your son to confirm his agreement.

I'm not sure what happens if he doesn't agree.

I’ve just found out that in year 18/19 he bought a van, which is a capital expenditure, thereby reducing his profits to a negligible amount. 18/19 was his first full year of trading
He has made a lot more in year 19/20
Am I correct in saying that he will not now get any money from HMRC due to this ?

[Onceinawhile]

I’ve just found out that in year 18/19 he bought a van, which is a capital expenditure, thereby reducing his profits to a negligible amount. 18/19 was his first full year of trading
He has made a lot more in year 19/20
Am I correct in saying that he will not now get any money from HMRC due to this ?

Nightmare, perfectly good tax advice at the time, but now an albatross around his neck.

It's based on your three year average trading profit between 16/17 to 18/19 so unfortunately looks like he'll only get a 1/3rd of the profit he made in 18/19.

Id suggest getting his 19/20 return submitted pronto in the hope that he can maybe use those figures in an appeal if they're allowed at any point.

I think however, he might be in for bad news.

[CropleyWasGod]

I’ve just found out that in year 18/19 he bought a van, which is a capital expenditure, thereby reducing his profits to a negligible amount. 18/19 was his first full year of trading
He has made a lot more in year 19/20
Am I correct in saying that he will not now get any money from HMRC due to this ?

I don't know the answer to that. There will be many who have taken advantage of one-off reliefs in one of the years on question, which will skew their average.

I can see a lot of appeals being made, on those grounds alone.

[hibeg]

Nightmare, perfectly good tax advice at the time, but now an albatross around his neck.

It's based on your three year average trading profit between 16/17 to 18/19 so unfortunately looks like he'll only get a 1/3rd of the profit he made in 18/19.

Id suggest getting his 19/20 return submitted pronto in the hope that he can maybe use those figures in an appeal if they're allowed at any point.

I think however, he might be in for bad news.

Thanks for that mate. Yes it does seem unfair in a way. He is working on his 19/20 return now !!

[CropleyWasGod]

Nightmare, perfectly good tax advice at the time, but now an albatross around his neck.

It's based on your three year average trading profit between 16/17 to 18/19 so unfortunately looks like he'll only get a 1/3rd of the profit he made in 18/19.

Id suggest getting his 19/20 return submitted pronto in the hope that he can maybe use those figures in an appeal if they're allowed at any point.

I think however, he might be in for bad news.

It won't be a 1/3 of his 18/19 profit. 18/19 will be used as his average.

[hibeg]

It won't be a 1/3 of his 18/19 profit. 18/19 will be used as his average.

Thanks CWG. Yes as stated he only has 18/19 to work on and has hardly any profit because of van purchase.
If they would accept 19/20 figures then that would make a big difference
Obviously there are going to be many losers with similar situations I would guess.
Hopefully HMRC may update to include 19/20 returns, but I doubt it at the moment.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks CWG. Yes as stated he only has 18/19 to work on and has hardly any profit because of van purchase.
If they would accept 19/20 figures then that would make a big difference
Obviously there are going to be many losers with similar situations I would guess.
Hopefully HMRC may update to include 19/20 returns, but I doubt it at the moment.

There may be a problem with using 19/20 Returns.

It's quite feasible for someone to put in a high income for the 19/20 Return, purely to get a large payout. Then, just before the deadline next January, put in an amended Return with much lower income. By that time, things may be back to normal and the trader could afford to pay back any overpaid help.

I think that HMG have spotted this potential scam, hence why 19/20 won't be used, other than in exceptional cases.

[hibeg]

I never thought of that, but makes sense.
I thought once you submitted your return, it was set in stone
I’m PAYE by the way so every days a school day 😂

[CropleyWasGod]

For those of you who are small company owners, this might be of interest.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/310515

There's also a Facebook page, which will keep you up to date with how the campaign is going.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=121317189535845&id=103515004649397

[BroxburnHibee]

The Government gateway site is up for folk who want to make a claim.

You cant make a claim until the 13th but think the site is up so people can ensure they have a login sorted.

[DH1875]

The Government gateway site is up for folk who want to make a claim.

You cant make a claim until the 13th but think the site is up so people can ensure they have a login sorted.

A claim for what?
Thought they were getting into contact with us first about payments to be made in June.

[BroxburnHibee]

A claim for what?
Thought they were getting into contact with us first about payments to be made in June.

That's what I thought too. I registered just in case.

[CropleyWasGod]

The Government gateway site is up for folk who want to make a claim.

You cant make a claim until the 13th but think the site is up so people can ensure they have a login sorted.


A claim for what?
Thought they were getting into contact with us first about payments to be made in June.

As I understand it (and the new web-page isn't clear) they are to contact you with their calculation of how much you're due. That contact process is starting today.

The "claim" is you going online and confirming your agreement, and giving them your bank details.

[DH1875]

So should I be doing anything just now or wait until they contact me.

[CropleyWasGod]

So should I be doing anything just now or wait until they contact me.

I'd say nothing just now, but give it until the 13th.

[DH1875]

I'd say nothing just now, but give it until the 13th.

Ta