Diego maradona

[BILLYHIBS]

Fancy a football fix?

Diego Maradona the Movie Documentary on Channel 4 tonight at 9pm

A fascinating insight into the life and times of a complicated football genius

Well worth a watch or recording to watch later to ease the boredom of lockdown :greengrin

[Baader]

Fancy a football fix?

Diego Maradona the Movie Documentary on Channel 4 tonight at 9pm

A fascinating insight into the life and times of a complicated football genius

Well worth a watch or recording to watch later to ease the boredom of lockdown :greengrin

Super stuff. Thanks for pointing out Billy. Looking forward to seeing this!

[BILLYHIBS]

Super stuff. Thanks for pointing out Billy. Looking forward to seeing this!

Yeah saw it at the Cinema fascinating camera angles and interesting fly on the wall documentary starting off with his reception at Napoli his private life and the company he keeps the soundtrack was not too shabby IIRC

Well worth a catch up

[May21/05/16]

Second best player I ever seen live just behind messi

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

[Keith_M]

Would it be OK to say that I just couldn't stand the guy, despite how good a footballer he was?

[BILLYHIBS]

Teaser trailer

https://youtu.be/cuErPYsoaR4

[Onceinawhile]

Thanks for the reminder. Got it set to record.

[hibsbollah]

You're in for a treat. Unbrlievable bit of filmmaking.

[one day maybe...]

The English game on Netflix just started watching it.. Nice wee mention for Hibernian 🇳🇬

[Gloucester Hibs]

Don’t get much more 80’s nostalgia than this:

https://youtu.be/Cdf6D19Etmc

[Swedish hibee]

Really fascinating watch, he's absolutely the best player I've ever seen.

[Hibby Mike]

Second best player I ever seen live just behind messi

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

2nd best? Messi is astounding but Maradona won Napoli’s first ever scudetto. Their first ever league championship. He not only did it at the world Cup, he did it in the toughest league in the World, against the best players in the world. With a team that had never won a scudetto or European cup, he took an ok team and made them world beaters. It's easier to be great in a team like Barca where you are surroundedby 10 other great players. That's what will always make Maradona different, and why he was and is still the best.

Not just that, he carried the world and every football fanatics expectations (except those of the st George brigade's) on his shoulders and performed for them every time. He was a 'super star' in the sense he performed both off the pitch as well as on it; something Messi has never been comfortablei doing,and possibly why the debate of Ronaldo vs Messi rages on.

[007]

Don’t get much more 80’s nostalgia than this:

https://youtu.be/Cdf6D19Etmc

Love it! 🤣

[DH1875]

2nd best? Messi is astounding but Maradona won Napoli’s first ever scudetto. Their first ever league championship. He not only did it at the world Cup, he did it in the toughest league in the World, against the best players in the world. With a team that had never won a scudetto or European cup, he took an ok team and made them world beaters. It's easier to be great in a team like Barca where you are surroundedby 10 other great players. That's what will always make Maradona different, and why he was and is still the best.

Not only that he carried the world and every football fanatics expectations (except those of the st George brigade's) on his shoulders and performed for them every time. He was a 'super star' in the sense he performed both off the pitch as well as on it; something Messi has never been comfortable doing.

He said 'live'. I've never seen Maradona live but hands down he is best player I've ever seen, if that makes sense. I've seen Messi live a few times so there for is better than Maradona but he's really not. Ronaldo 'live' is/was better than either of them but that's another argument.

[SteveHFC]

Just finished watching the documentary. Maradona was some player.

[kaimendhibs]

Brilliant player. Carried along by adulation

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[MWHIBBIES]

Messi wins by every metric except international success and he's lost 4 finals, putting in a good shift to get his team to them all. If Higuain scores the 1v1 in 2014 there is no debate imo.

Diego is undoubtedly one of the greatest ever but he wouldn't get close to Messis level in this much more professional modern game.

Messi doubles his numbers in most areas.

[Saint Hibee]

Messi wins by every metric except international success and he's lost 4 finals, putting in a good shift to get his team to them all. If Higuain scores the 1v1 in 2014 there is no debate imo.

Diego is undoubtedly one of the greatest ever but he wouldn't get close to Messis level in this much more professional modern game.

Messi doubles his numbers in most areas.

You’d probably have more fun on a night out with Maradona than on a night out with Messi.

[Barman Stanton]

Messi wins by every metric except international success and he's lost 4 finals, putting in a good shift to get his team to them all. If Higuain scores the 1v1 in 2014 there is no debate imo.

Diego is undoubtedly one of the greatest ever but he wouldn't get close to Messis level in this much more professional modern game.

Messi doubles his numbers in most areas.

That argument is always nonsense. How would Messi get on in the 80s? He would probably be snapped in 2. Now put Maradona in today’s game with the referees protection, better pitches and training facilities. Maradona would still be the greatest player in the world today in my opinion.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

I only watched about five minutes so need to watch it all. The thing that stood out to me was when he got hit he just got up again and carried on (might have coked out his tits right enough). Players now just seem to be taught to look for the free kick

[MWHIBBIES]

That argument is always nonsense. How would Messi get on in the 80s? He would probably be snapped in 2. Now put Maradona in today’s game with the referees protection, better pitches and training facilities. Maradona would still be the greatest player in the world today in my opinion.

So you think a few better pitches and referees has maradona scoring an extra 350 goals?

[BILLYHIBS]

Saw Maradona at Hampden in June 1979 versus Scotland in a 1-3 loss in front of 62000 on a hot sunny day

The 18 year old Maradona scored his first international goal and did not look out of place

He arrived in a blaze of publicity and he did not disappoint

It is fair to say that everyone in the Stadium wanted him to do well and wanted to be entertained

I remember him being very small having the body of a bull but the poise and balance of a ballerina a low centre of gravity just skipping past players with the ball stuck to his feet as if they weren’t there but most importantly for one so young he was very brave and had the heart of a lion

Everyone in the Stadium knew they had just seen something special and it was money well spent

There is a famous image from that game where a diminutive Maradona is surrounded by five Scotland players and still emerges with the ball

https://youtu.be/GxFuYut827g

[Barman Stanton]

So you think a few better pitches and referees has maradona scoring an extra 350 goals?

If Messi played for the best team in the world his whole career then yeah I imagine he would score a lot more. Maradona controlled games from deep in a way Messi doesn’t need to. More playmaker than goalscorer.

Do you think Messi could go to Bournemouth and almost single handedly win League Titles, FA Cups and European Trophies? As that’s pretty much what Maradona did at Napoli.

[MWHIBBIES]

If Messi played for the best team in the world his whole career then yeah I imagine he would score a lot more. Maradona controlled games from deep in a way Messi doesn’t need to. More playmaker than goalscorer.

Do you think Messi could go to Bournemouth and almost single handedly win League Titles, FA Cups and European Trophies? As that’s pretty much what Maradona did at Napoli.

Messi undoubtedly has considerably more assists as well, a unbelievable playmaker.

I think Messi could do that surrounded by the quality players maradona was at Napoli. Utter myth he won anything single handedly.

[BILLYHIBS]

Messi is a fantastic player and possibly the GOAT but a great deal of credit must go to Maradona for single handedly going to Napoli grabbing them by the scruff of the neck and dragging them to two Serie A titles one Italian Cup one UEFA Cup and one Italian Super Cup

In Argentina he is a legend winning one World Cup and scoring 34 times from 91 appearances from the old fashioned creative number 10 position running in from midfield

[The Count]

Maradona for me.Remember the tackling that was allowed in these days something as great as Messi is and he is great has not had to deal with.

[Barman Stanton]

Messi undoubtedly has considerably more assists as well, a unbelievable playmaker.

I think Messi could do that surrounded by the quality players maradona was at Napoli. Utter myth he won anything single handedly.

They had some good players, like Bournemouth do. Napoli were fighting relegation when Maradona joined. Compare the Napoli team to Milan’s!

Hey I think Messi is an incredible player, best of the generation by miles. I just don’t buy that players are better now due to time. When you are born with a ball at your feet and have that natural ability then you would adapt and be able to play in any era.

Agree to disagree. In fairness I disagree with about 99% of your opinions so would be surprised if not :)

[BILLYHIBS]

The Napoli team that won the UEFA Cup:
Giuliano
Ferrara
Renica
Corradini
Alemao
De Napoli
Fusi
Maradona
Carnevale
Carerca

All decent players no doubt but no where near the household names that helped Messi to win the Champions League the latest being 2015

Ter Stegen
Alves
Pique
Mascherano
Alba
Rakitic
Busquets
Iniesta
Messi
Suarez
Neymar

[Pretty Boy]

These arguments are always split on generation lines.

I watch footage of football from the 40s and 50s on YouTube and it's like a different sport. Even the highlights seems to consist primarily of scuffed shots and misplaced passes. Watch entire games, where you can find them, and it's almost reminiscent of rugby in that there seems to be a kick and chase, playing for territory element to the game. Even in the 70s which is probably what could be considered the advent of the recognisably modern game there is a noticeable lack of real tempo to games. There is extensive footage from the 1974 WC available online and some games look like walking football.

The 1990s was my era for football. I loved football then. I played every chance I got and I watched every game I could. Football Italia was observed religiously in my house and I adored the Milan team of that era. Watching it back now though, it looks very different to the modern game, recognisable but far less athletic.

We will never know if Messi or Ronaldo could have led a provincial club to success. The game is too commercial for it ever to happen now, had Maradona been born a quarter of a century later we would never have known it about him either. Criminal proceeds bringing the best players to smaller clubs still exists, they just bring in more of them now.

I'm no lover of modern football, take Hibs out of the equation and I have little interest. However the modern day greats are producing performance levels we have never seen before. With the advantages of sport science, improved diet and fitness, better equipment, better pitches, more protection etc would the natural talent of Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Best et al be able to produce that level? Almost certainly. Likewise if you dropped Messi into the 70s and removed his modern advantages would he still be naturally gifted enough to be special? Again, it's almost certain. Those are all hypotheticals though. Players nowadays have both the talent and the other advantages and they are producing in a way we have never seen before. People won't like it because the names I have mentioned above along with a few others are almost sacred but Messi, and Ronaldo, have consistently produced the best football performances the world has ever seen. In 20 or 30 years time others will better them again, that's how things work.

[JimBHibees]

So you think a few better pitches and referees has maradona scoring an extra 350 goals?

Think the argument is that Messi wouldn't have scored anywhere near the amount of goals he has with the enormous difference in the physically of the challenges. Maradona had a number of serious injuries in his playing career due to appalling challenges.

[MWHIBBIES]

The Napoli team that won the UEFA Cup:
Giuliano
Ferrara
Renica
Corradini
Alemao
De Napoli
Fusi
Maradona
Carnevale
Carerca

All decent players no doubt but no where near the household names that helped Messi to win the Champions League the latest being 2015

Ter Stegen
Alves
Pique
Mascherano
Alba
Rakitic
Busquets
Iniesta
Messi
Suarez
Neymar
Yes but the opposition that Barcelona played was also far better. Juventus had players like Tevez, Vidal, Buffon, Barzagli, Bonucci, Pogba, Pirlo. Napoli beat Stuttgart with the only real famous name being a young Jurgen Klinsmann who played only the second leg.

Hearts got to the quarter finals that year, it really wasn't as high a standard as the champions league is now.

[MWHIBBIES]

Think the argument is that Messi wouldn't have scored anywhere near the amount of goals he has with the enormous difference in the physically of the challenges. Maradona had a number of serious injuries in his playing career due to appalling challenges.

I think his unprofessional approach didn't help those injuries either. Messi takes care of himself far better than Maradona did and is rewarded for it.

[BILLYHIBS]

Yes but the opposition that Barcelona played was also far better. Juventus had players like Tevez, Vidal, Buffon, Barzagli, Bonucci, Pogba, Pirlo. Napoli beat Stuttgart with the only real famous name being a young Jurgen Klinsmann who played only the second leg.

Hearts got to the quarter finals that year, it really wasn't as high a standard as the champions league is now.
Yes but Napoli were a nothing Club until Maradona arrived only HE made the difference and credit where credit due

As others have said Maradona had to put up with the physicality of the game as it was then with tackles from behind and over the top

I also don’t buy your argument that European trophies were easier to win back then

Did Celtic win the European Cup because it was easy ?

My memory tells me that many British teams tried and many failed before them the Hibees being one of them 😁

[MWHIBBIES]

Yes but Napoli were a nothing Club until Maradona arrived only HE made the difference and credit where credit due

As others have said Maradona had to put up with the physicality of the game as it was then with tackles from behind and over the top

I also don’t buy your argument that European trophies were easier to win back then

Did Celtic win the European Cup because it was easy ?

My memory tells me that many British teams tried and many failed before them the Hibees being one of them 😁

Celtic won in in 1967, very different from 1989 and again 2015. I never said they were easier to win. But that Uefa cup wasn't full of top quality teams like the 2015 champions league was.

Napoli had been 3rd and 4th in Serie A a few years before Maradona joined, certainly not a nothing club. He obviously made a huge difference but he was surrounded by quality players like Careca, Brazils main centre forward, Ciro Ferrara (Napoli and Juventus legend, 49 Italy caps) Alemao (39 Brazil caps). They'd have been a good side anyway.

[Hillsidehibby]

Yes but the opposition that Barcelona played was also far better. Juventus had players like Tevez, Vidal, Buffon, Barzagli, Bonucci, Pogba, Pirlo. Napoli beat Stuttgart with the only real famous name being a young Jurgen Klinsmann who played only the second leg.

Hearts got to the quarter finals that year, it really wasn't as high a standard as the champions league is now.

I cannot believe Hearts are mentioned in a thread about Maradona.

[BILLYHIBS]

Celtic won in in 1967, very different from 1989 and again 2015. I never said they were easier to win. But that Uefa cup wasn't full of top quality teams like the 2015 champions league was.

Napoli had been 3rd and 4th in Serie A a few years before Maradona joined, certainly not a nothing club. He obviously made a huge difference but he was surrounded by quality players like Careca, Brazils main centre forward, Ciro Ferrara (Napoli and Juventus legend, 49 Italy caps) Alemao (39 Brazil caps). They'd have been a good side anyway.

Aye but not as good that is my point

He was the difference the gel the mortar to their bricks without Maradona they were nothing and the bricks would be first to admit it

As I said credit where credit due and as someone else said he was probably high as a kite half the time anyways 😂

I don’t normally buy into one man football teams but joking apart Maradonas
Napoli has got to be the exception

Barca win without Messi

[MWHIBBIES]

Aye but not as good that is my point

He was the difference the gel the mortar to their bricks without Maradona they were nothing and the bricks would be first to admit it

As I said credit where credit due and as someone else said he was probably high as a kite half the time anyways 😂

I don’t normally but into one man football teams but joking apart Maradonas
Napoli has got to be the exception

Barca win without Messi

Barcelona wouldn't have won the Champions leagues in 2009, 2011 or 2015 without Messi. Look at the numbers he was putting up.

Before Messi made his debut Barcelona were 13 or 14 trophies behind Real Madrid. Now they lead.

[BILLYHIBS]

Barcelona wouldn't have won the Champions leagues in 2009, 2011 or 2015 without Messi. Look at the numbers he was putting up.

Before Messi made his debut Barcelona were 13 or 14 trophies behind Real Madrid. Now they lead.

I think you do a disservice to his esteemed colleagues

In 2009 Messi was ably assisted and abetted by Puyol Toure Pigue Xavi Busquets Iniiesta Eto and Henry in 2011 Alves Mascherano Pique Busquets Xavi Inniesta Villa and Pedro

Surely you must be starting to see a common denominator here the nucleus of a very good club side with excellent players in every position not just one man most of these players playing in 2015

My point is Maradona took Napoli to two league titles one cup one UEFA Cup one Super Cup rode off into the sunset to join Barca and what have Napoli done since?

I have already stated that Messi is probably GOAT but even you have to admire Maradonas achievements at Napoli without Maradona I honestly do not think that Napoli would have achieved what they did

[MWHIBBIES]

I think you do a disservice to his esteemed colleagues

In 2009 Messi was ably assisted and abetted by Puyol Toure Pigue Xavi Busquets Iniiesta Eto and Henry in 2011 Alves Mascherano Pique Busquets Xavi Inniesta Villa and Pedro

Surely you must be starting to see a common denominator here the nucleus of a very good club side with excellent players in every position not just one man most of these players playing in 2015

My point is Maradona took Napoli to two league titles one cup one UEFA Cup one Super Cup rode off into the sunset to join Barca and what have Napoli done since?

I have already stated that Messi is probably GOAT but even you have to admire Maradonas achievements at Napoli without Maradona I honestly do not think that Napoli would have achieved what they did

Maradona joined the ''nothing club'' Napoli from Barcelona mate, he left to Sevilla.

Obviously Messi had fantastic team mates, but he was the real star, like Maradona was. The team was build around him and you only have to look at how good they still are without all those guys who are long gone (apart from Pique and SB).

I never said Napoli would have won things without him but he certainly wasn't playing 1 vs 11 like you are making out. Napoli have been an excellent side for years now, winning 2 Italian cups and a supercup in the last 10 years and finishing runner up to Juventus multiple times, including a season with 91 points which would've won them the league in all but 7 Serie A seasons.

[Sudds_1]

I think his unprofessional approach didn't help those injuries either. Messi takes care of himself far better than Maradona did and is rewarded for it.

The cocaine probably helped ease the pain as well...
😏

[Mr Grieves]

I only watched about five minutes so need to watch it all. The thing that stood out to me was when he got hit he just got up again and carried on (might have coked out his tits right enough). Players now just seem to be taught to look for the free kick

He had a knack of bouncing off defenders and continuing to dribble. That was a brilliant watch, cheers to the OP for the shout

[BILLYHIBS]

Maradona joined the ''nothing club'' Napoli from Barcelona mate, he left to Sevilla.

Obviously Messi had fantastic team mates, but he was the real star, like Maradona was. The team was build around him and you only have to look at how good they still are without all those guys who are long gone (apart from Pique and SB).

I never said Napoli would have won things without him but he certainly wasn't playing 1 vs 11 like you are making out. Napoli have been an excellent side for years now, winning 2 Italian cups and a supercup in the last 10 years and finishing runner up to Juventus multiple times, including a season with 91 points which would've won them the league in all but 7 Serie A seasons.

Thanks for that and many thanks for the history lesson but still no European trophies to add to their UEFA Cup?

Napoli are indeed a very good side but appear to still lack that XFactor to drag them over the line that I suppose a Messi or a Ronaldo or dare I say it a young Maradona would provide

Messi is indeed a talent and I repeat probably GOAT but I think I have made my point even without doing my usual exhaustive research :greengrin

[Carheenlea]

I really enjoyed watching this last night. The opening was like an old Scorsese movie and the film was all the better for the lack of talking heads to simply be accompanied by Maradona's honest and forthright commentary throughout.
Had hoped to get to cinema to see this last year but didn’t get round to it, so it was a treat to view last night.

Must admit though, at no point did my mind stray into making comparisons with other greats, such was how engrossing the film was.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Nobody will ever compare to Diego.

His talent, character, upbringing, politics, associates and numerous back stories put him on a different level to anyone we have or will know in the beautiful game.

What he did for Argentinos Juniors, Napoli and Argentina in 1986 will never be forgotten.

There's a Church of Maradona for a reason and I for one will forever be a believer.

[hibsbollah]

The Napoli team that won the UEFA Cup:
Giuliano
Ferrara
Renica
Corradini
Alemao
De Napoli
Fusi
Maradona
Carnevale
Carerca

All decent players no doubt but no where near the household names that helped Messi to win the Champions League the latest being 2015

Ter Stegen
Alves
Pique
Mascherano
Alba
Rakitic
Busquets
Iniesta
Messi
Suarez
Neymar

Correct.

[MWHIBBIES]

Nobody will ever compare to Diego.

His talent, character, upbringing, politics, associates and numerous back stories put him on a different level to anyone we have or will know in the beautiful game.

What he did for Argentinos Juniors, Napoli and Argentina in 1986 will never be forgotten.

There's a Church of Maradona for a reason and I for one will forever be a believer.

In what way? Certainly on ability to play football there is around 10 that could be compared him. Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Pele, Messi, Cryuff, Di Stefano, Platini, Puskas, Romario etc can all be comapred.

[Since452]

In what way? Certainly on ability to play football there is around 10 that could be compared him. Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Pele, Messi, Cryuff, Di Stefano, Platini, Puskas, Romario etc can all be comapred.

Nobody could compare to him in terms of smashing gear that's for sure. For me the Brazilian Ronaldo was the best. Everyone has their favourite though.

[Frazerbob]

In what way? Certainly on ability to play football there is around 10 that could be compared him. Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Pele, Messi, Cryuff, Di Stefano, Platini, Puskas, Romario etc can all be comapred.

Those may well compare ability wise but, as previously mentioned, none come close to Diego in back story, scandals, politics, off-field antics, god like status for many and ultimate villain for others. What a story!

[Pagan Hibernia]

So you think a few better pitches and referees has maradona scoring an extra 350 goals?

i think he would have scored, and set up, a lot more.

And i think messi would have scored, and set up, a lot less in the 1980s.

point is the game changes and evolves, so just pointing at statistics and saying this proves that is not really sensible.

Football in the 1980s was very different to the 1950s and in 2050 it’ll be different to what we watch now

[Eyrie]

i think he would have scored, and set up, a lot more.

And i think messi would have scored, and set up, a lot less in the 1980s.

point is the game changes and evolves, so just pointing at statistics and saying this proves that is not really sensible.

Football in the 1980s was very different to the 1950s and in 2050 it’ll be different to what we watch now

Correct.

You can't have a realistic direct comparison of players from different eras, you can only have a relative comparison of how dominant they were in their respective eras.

[MWHIBBIES]

Correct.

You can't have a realistic direct comparison of players from different eras, you can only have a relative comparison of how dominant they were in their respective eras.

I agree but 2x his goals and assists? You really think Maradona scores an extra 350 goals in this era? For context, Alan Shearer scored 379 goals in his entire club career.

I think you can realistically say Maradona wouldn't match Messi statistically in either era, not even close.

[Eyrie]

I agree but 2x his goals and assists? You really think Maradona scores an extra 350 goals in this era? For context, Alan Shearer scored 379 goals in his entire club career.

I think you can realistically say Maradona wouldn't match Messi statistically in either era, not even close.

That is a direct comparison though.

Maradona was as relatively dominant in his prime as Messi, which is what counts for me.

[MWHIBBIES]

That is a direct comparison though.

Maradona was as relatively dominant in his prime as Messi, which is what counts for me.

Was he? Messis peak year was 2012 where he scored 91 goals in the calender year. No one has ever been as relatively dominant as that.


The only thing Maradona wins on is international success. Otherwise its not close. More leagues, more cups, more goals, more assists, more European honors, more individual honors.

I dunno, I just don't get it. Messi pretty much dumpsters Maradona in every way except international success. So does Cristiano Ronaldo except he has the international success as well.

I think nostalgia is playing a big role here. Maradona was undoubtedly brilliant, a real special player and the best of his time but definitely not the best ever. Messi certainly has him beat.

[BILLYHIBS]

I keep saying Messi is probably GOAT

His career record to date is stunning :

Barcelona played 474 scored 438 ( League games only )

Argentina played 138 scored 70

It is reckoned he has scored over 700 career goals inc cup games inc 8 Champions League hatricks and 6 Ballon dOrs

Lionel Messis record is second to none and I love watching him play but to me Diego Maradona still edges it having won one World Cup and one Coppa America two trophies that evaded Lionel Messi

Just my own personal preference nothing more nothing less

Love watching them both and Ronaldo :greengrin

[MWHIBBIES]

I keep saying Messi is GOAT

His career record to date is stunning :

Barcelona played 474 scored 438 ( League games only )

Argentina played 138 scored 70

It is reckoned he has scored over 700 career goals inc cup games inc 8 Champions League hatricks and 6 Ballon dOrs

Lionel Messis record is second to none and I love watching him play but to me Diego Maradona still edges it having won one World Cup and one Coppa America two trophies that evaded Lionel Messi

Just my own personal preference nothing more nothing less

Love watching them both and Ronaldo :greengrin

Maradona never won the copa america

[Sas_The_Hibby]

Would it be OK to say that I just couldn't stand the guy, despite how good a footballer he was?

It certainly would! :wink:

[Sas_The_Hibby]

You’d probably have more fun on a night out with Maradona than on a night out with Messi.

Yes. And you'd probably also end up dead! :greengrin

[BILLYHIBS]

Maradona never won the copa america

He did according to WIKI in 1993 😂

[Iggy Pope]

He did according to WIKI in 1993 😂

According to Wiki he isn’t in either of the 1991 or 1993 squads.

[MWHIBBIES]

He did according to WIKI in 1993 😂

Nope. Argentina won it but he wasn't in the squad.

[Squealing pig]

Missed this and ain’t on demand 👎

[BILLYHIBS]

Nope. Argentina won it but he wasn't in the squad.

Yip Wiki talking pish his performances were lack lustre and was not selected for final squad
Still stand by the rest of my post though

👍🏾

[BILLYHIBS]

According to Wiki he isn’t in either of the 1991 or 1993 squads.

Wiki have him as winning the Gold Medal Copa América 1993 page 1

[BILLYHIBS]

Missed this and ain’t on demand ��

Try More4

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/diego-maradona

[Squealing pig]

Try More4

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/diego-maradona

Thanks tried earlier wasn’t showing

[Onceinawhile]

There's a part in the movie where Diego says "I left Barcelona and there wasn't another team that would take me, I asked for a house, I got a flat, I asked for a ferrari, I got a fiat."

Now if Messi leaves Barcelona tomorrow, do you think there's only one team would buy him? Do you think he would want for anything?

Also, why did napoli finish 8th in diego's first season? If they won it after that, surely the players who joined afterwards deserve the credit?

[Wee Effen Bee]

[QUOTE=BILLYHIBS;6125190]I keep saying Messi is GOAT


Lionel Messis record is second to none

Apart from Pele’s.They reckon Pele scored 650 goals in 694 League matches and 1281 goals in 1363 games overall.

[BILLYHIBS]

[QUOTE=BILLYHIBS;6125190]I keep saying Messi is GOAT


Lionel Messis record is second to none

Apart from Pele’s.They reckon Pele scored 650 goals in 694 League matches and 1281 goals in 1363 games overall.

Spot on !

Last time we had this debate my choice was indeed Pelé if you check the historical thread but this was a thread about a Maradona movie that turned into a discussion about Messi but I am with you

Pelé is up there with Muhammad Ali and Pat Stanton in my eyes as my all time great sporting heroes

[Sammy7nil]

There's a part in the movie where Diego says "I left Barcelona and there wasn't another team that would take me, I asked for a house, I got a flat, I asked for a ferrari, I got a fiat."

Now if Messi leaves Barcelona tomorrow, do you think there's only one team would buy him? Do you think he would want for anything?

Also, why did napoli finish 8th in diego's first season? If they won it after that, surely the players who joined afterwards deserve the credit?

Yip Maradona no better than Brian Hamiltion or Slivka :greengrin

[Chip shop Joe]

I think both Messi and Maradona are extremely gifted and different eras are very difficult to compare but I am surprised that everyone seems to be concentrating on Maradona’s success with Napoli.

He pretty much won the 86 World Cup on his own with what was widely regarded as an average at best team, the majority of whom played in Argentina rather than the big European teams.

He was player of the tournament, scored one of the greatest goals ever and scored or assisted something like 75% of Argentina’s goals in the tournament.

[BILLYHIBS]

I think both Messi and Maradona are extremely gifted and different eras are very difficult to compare but I am surprised that everyone seems to be concentrating on Maradona’s success with Napoli.

He pretty much won the 86 World Cup on his own with what was widely regarded as an average at best team, the majority of whom played in Argentina rather than the big European teams.

He was player of the tournament, scored one of the greatest goals ever and scored or assisted something like 75% of Argentina’s goals in the tournament.

:agree:

Keep saying that Maradona won the World Cup :greengrin

[Same Sleeves]

I enjoyed the film bar the obvious sad differences in Diego V Maradona that the film highlights

Both are top players and the most gifted footballers I have ever seen so they are joint top for me

Football is all about opinions and no one is ever going to be proved right on who was the best but I think that I can safely say that had Maradona been born in the modern era of the diets ,science and social wellbeing of modern athletes as well has the movement of the laws and style of the game for todays footballers Maradona and his natural ability would be pushing the boundarys of the game just like Messi and Ronaldo are

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

Thanks tried earlier wasn’t showing

I watched it tonight on catch up (on virgin) if that helps?

[Green Reaper]

Watched it tonight (recorded) fantastic watch, rollercoaster ride

[MWHIBBIES]

I keep saying Messi is GOAT


Lionel Messis record is second to none

Apart from Pele’s.They reckon Pele scored 650 goals in 694 League matches and 1281 goals in 1363 games overall.
His record includes all kinds of made up testimonials and charity games.

[Yorkshire HFC]

I dunno, I just don't get it. Messi pretty much dumpsters Maradona in every way except international success. So does Cristiano Ronaldo except he has the international success as well.

Some things cannot be measured by statistics.

Maradonna, Best, Ali etc. don't have the most trophies - but their names will live on far longer than those who do - because the public identified with them.

[MWHIBBIES]

I dunno, I just don't get it. Messi pretty much dumpsters Maradona in every way except international success. So does Cristiano Ronaldo except he has the international success as well.

Some things cannot be measured by statistics.

Maradonna, Best, Ali etc. don't have the most trophies - but their names will live on far longer than those who do - because the public identified with them.

No, Messi will certainly live as long (longer because there is many more highlights available) than either of those 2.

I agree some things cant be measured by statistics but we're literally talking about doubling him in all statistics and winning 3x the trophies.

[Barman Stanton]

There's a part in the movie where Diego says "I left Barcelona and there wasn't another team that would take me, I asked for a house, I got a flat, I asked for a ferrari, I got a fiat."

Now if Messi leaves Barcelona tomorrow, do you think there's only one team would buy him? Do you think he would want for anything?

Also, why did napoli finish 8th in diego's first season? If they won it after that, surely the players who joined afterwards deserve the credit?

I mean he even talks about how it took time for him to adapt to Italian football. It’s on the doc that you watched. You think Napoli’s success was more down to the other players? There are full Napoli game’s you can watch on YouTube, including a 4-0 win against the great Milan team. He controls absolutely everything. Collects the ball deep, takes corners, free kicks, receives the ball from throw-ins. Diego was Napoli.

I do get that people that were not around will just look at stats and wonder what the fuss is about. But like George Best, stats can be deceiving when they are not exactly conventional hero’s

[Since90+2]

I dunno, I just don't get it. Messi pretty much dumpsters Maradona in every way except international success. So does Cristiano Ronaldo except he has the international success as well.

Some things cannot be measured by statistics.

Maradonna, Best, Ali etc. don't have the most trophies - but their names will live on far longer than those who do - because the public identified with them.

Messi will be talked about just aslong as Maradona and far longer than Best on a worldwide scale.

He is a global icon and in the age of social media will be known more around the world than pretty much any player that's every played the game.

[BILLYHIBS]

Messi will be talked about just aslong as Maradona and far longer than Best on a worldwide scale.

He is a global icon and in the age of social media will be known more around the world than pretty much any player that's every played the game.

Pele is immortal

[JimBHibees]

Pele is immortal

Absolutely a true icon of the game.

[hibsbollah]

Pele is immortal

He was dead for me after those erectile dysfunction ads in the 80s. No self respect.

[SquashedFrogg]

He was dead for me after those erectile dysfunction ads in the 80s. No self respect.

Always seemed to get up for the big occasions.

[Joe6-2]

He was dead for me after those erectile dysfunction ads in the 80s. No self respect.

Hey! It’s a big deal for some men

I don’t mean me of course 🤭

[Cropley10]

So you think a few better pitches and referees has maradona scoring an extra 350 goals?

Have you seen the film?

[Cropley10]

Nobody will ever compare to Diego.

His talent, character, upbringing, politics, associates and numerous back stories put him on a different level to anyone we have or will know in the beautiful game.

What he did for Argentinos Juniors, Napoli and Argentina in 1986 will never be forgotten.

There's a Church of Maradona for a reason and I for one will forever be a believer.

I came out fo the cinema and thought very much the same. Great post.

His team mates adored him, I loved that.

[eastmainsmsh]

Absolutely Brilliant watch he was a genius

[BILLYHIBS]

Good Diego

Bad Maradona

[mjhibby]

I dunno, I just don't get it. Messi pretty much dumpsters Maradona in every way except international success. So does Cristiano Ronaldo except he has the international success as well.

Some things cannot be measured by statistics.

Maradonna, Best, Ali etc. don't have the most trophies - but their names will live on far longer than those who do - because the public identified with them.

Stats are a waste of time comparing. Maradona didn't have the players beside him like Messi has had at Barcelona and Ronaldo at real Madrid. He dragged Napoli from constant relegation battlers to champions of Italy where at that time all the best players were playing like platini. He then drags Argentina to win the world cup when nobody fancied them an won the uefa cup against incredibly strong opposition.
To me maradona is the greatest ever player especially when you consider the brutal treatment he got. Messi and Ronaldo do not have to contend with that brutal treatment plus maradona carried the weight of his country's expectations on his shoulder. I remember my mate going to see him at Hampden and absolutely raving about this kid.
Considering the brutal treatment he got and the weight of expectation on him he just shades it from Pele for me as Pele had great players around him. It's hard to compare eras but I doubt Messi would have coped with Diego's punishment but feel maradona would be sensational in this era with his speed of movement and amazing finishing. All about opinions but I just can't see past the maradona but I do think Messi and Ronaldo are fantastic players. I would bracket them with best,Cruyff and platini.

[mjhibby]

Btw just watching the engerlund quarter final and they fairly hacked at him before he got his infamous first. Karma as far as I'm concerned but what a second goal. Never tire of watching that. Just imagine maradona in today's Liverpool team. Wow just wow.

[BILLYHIBS]

Stats are a waste of time comparing. Maradona didn't have the players beside him like Messi has had at Barcelona and Ronaldo at real Madrid. He dragged Napoli from constant relegation battlers to champions of Italy where at that time all the best players were playing like platini. He then drags Argentina to win the world cup when nobody fancied them an won the uefa cup against incredibly strong opposition.
To me maradona is the greatest ever player especially when you consider the brutal treatment he got. Messi and Ronaldo do not have to contend with that brutal treatment plus maradona carried the weight of his country's expectations on his shoulder. I remember my mate going to see him at Hampden and absolutely raving about this kid.
Considering the brutal treatment he got and the weight of expectation on him he just shades it from Pele for me as Pele had great players around him. It's hard to compare eras but I doubt Messi would have coped with Diego's punishment but feel maradona would be sensational in this era with his speed of movement and amazing finishing. All about opinions but I just can't see past the maradona but I do think Messi and Ronaldo are fantastic players. I would bracket them with best,Cruyff and platini.
Agree with all of this

The key thing for me was how brave he was he would take the ball in tight situations and run at players take the rough tackles more often than not bouncing off them and ride them pick himself up brush himself down and go back for more

Saw him at Hampden in 79 see my post and you just knew you had seen something special

[MWHIBBIES]

Stats are a waste of time comparing. Maradona didn't have the players beside him like Messi has had at Barcelona and Ronaldo at real Madrid. He dragged Napoli from constant relegation battlers to champions of Italy where at that time all the best players were playing like platini. He then drags Argentina to win the world cup when nobody fancied them an won the uefa cup against incredibly strong opposition.
To me maradona is the greatest ever player especially when you consider the brutal treatment he got. Messi and Ronaldo do not have to contend with that brutal treatment plus maradona carried the weight of his country's expectations on his shoulder. I remember my mate going to see him at Hampden and absolutely raving about this kid.
Considering the brutal treatment he got and the weight of expectation on him he just shades it from Pele for me as Pele had great players around him. It's hard to compare eras but I doubt Messi would have coped with Diego's punishment but feel maradona would be sensational in this era with his speed of movement and amazing finishing. All about opinions but I just can't see past the maradona but I do think Messi and Ronaldo are fantastic players. I would bracket them with best,Cruyff and platini.

Messi and Ronaldo have been on the end of some brutal tackles. Napoli were not constant relegation struggles, they were 3rd and 4th a couple of years before he joined. He didn't win the uefa cup against incredibly strong opposition, nothing like the standard that Messi and Ronaldo have beat to win champions leagues. Hearts got to the quarter finals that year.

I agree about statistics to a point. Messi literally doubles him in everything. That isn't because of the players around him. Why do you doubt Messi would've been brilliant? Have you actually seen the guy? Considering how much more professional be was than maradona, he would've absolutely strolled it. Maradona wouldn't have been fit enough or professional enough to be the best in 2020.

[BILLYHIBS]

Messi and Ronaldo have been on the end of some brutal tackles. Napoli were not constant relegation struggles, they were 3rd and 4th a couple of years before he joined. He didn't win the uefa cup against incredibly strong opposition, nothing like the standard that Messi and Ronaldo have beat to win champions leagues. Hearts got to the quarter finals that year.

I agree about statistics to a point. Messi literally doubles him in everything. That isn't because of the players around him. Why do you doubt Messi would've been brilliant? Have you actually seen the guy? Considering how much more professional be was than maradona, he would've absolutely strolled it. Maradona wouldn't have been fit enough or professional enough to be the best in 2020.
In the Documentary they say that prior to Maradona joining Naples they had only ever won two cups ever in their whole history

Just wondering if you have had the time to watch this excellent Documentary which concentrates on Maradonas time at Naples as it might help to change your opinion of him?

[lyonhibs]

Messi wins by every metric except international success and he's lost 4 finals, putting in a good shift to get his team to them all. If Higuain scores the 1v1 in 2014 there is no debate imo.

Diego is undoubtedly one of the greatest ever but he wouldn't get close to Messis level in this much more professional modern game.

Messi doubles his numbers in most areas.

Such a 1 dimensional way of analysing it, removing any appreciation for context or era. Messi came into a Barcelona team featuring Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldinho and Eto'o. Maradona took a serially underperforming Napoli team featuring barely any other top players to 2 scudettos, a Coppa Italia and a UEFA Cup at a time when Sería A was far and away the strongest league in the world. Messi is a magical player but I think 1985-1989 Maradona could achieve, in this era, what Messi has (more or less). He probably wouldn't, thanks to the whole cocaïne thing, but I'm more certain that Messi couldn't have done with a team like Napoli, at that time, what Maradona did.

And also Maradona owned a World Cup in a way Messi never has and I suspect never will.

[MWHIBBIES]

Such a 1 dimensional way of analysing it, removing any appreciation for context or era. Messi came into a Barcelona team featuring Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldinho and Eto'o. Maradona took a serially underperforming Napoli team featuring barely any other top players to 2 scudettos, a Coppa Italia and a UEFA Cup at a time when Sería A was far and away the strongest league in the world. Messi is a magical player but I think 1985-1989 Maradona could achieve, in this era, what Messi has (more or less). He probably wouldn't, thanks to the whole cocaïne thing, but I'm more certain that Messi couldn't have done with a team like Napoli, at that time, what Maradona did.

And also Maradona owned a World Cup in a way Messi never has and I suspect never will.

Why are you certain Messi wouldn't? Based on nothing at all.
He would at least be as good.

Messi owned 3 European cups in a way maradona never did. Seriously boring to keep using the teammates argument. He has scored over 700 goals. All those guys are long gone and he is still scoring more in a season than maradona did in two.

Maradona didn't win the world cup on his own either. He scored 5 goals. Valdano scored 4. Burrachaga scored 2.

In 2014 Messi scored 4. Next Argentina player scored 1.

Interestingly, Careca, one of Maradonas hopeless Napoli teammates also scored 5 in 1986.

[lyonhibs]

Why are you certain Messi wouldn't? Based on nothing at all.
He would at least be as good.

Messi owned 3 European cups in a way maradona never did. Seriously boring to keep using the teammates argument. He has scored over 700 goals. All those guys are long gone and he is still scoring more in a season than maradona did in two.

Who were his team mates for those 3 European Cups? What had they won before in their career? How many international caps did they have? How many of them were generally accepted to be amongst the best in the world in their position?

Maradona had barely any of those benefits going for him in the Napoli or Argentina 86 squad (where if he wasn't scoring, he was assisting) . Messi has had obviously a statistical longer career, a more impressive Wikipedia page and is a phenomenal player but thankfully judging who was the *greatest* player isn't a mere exercise in statistical analysis.

[MWHIBBIES]

Who were his team mates for those 3 European Cups? What had they won before in their career? How many international caps did they have? How many of them were generally accepted to be amongst the best in the world in their position?

Maradona had none of those benefits going for him in the Napoli or Argentina 86 squad. Messi has had obviously a statistical longer career, a more impressive Wikipedia page and is a phenomenal player but thankfully judging who was the *greatest* player isn't a mere exercise in statistical analysis.
Read my edit. Myth that Napoli and Argentina were rubbish.

Yes Messi had good teammates. He also won better trophies against better teams. Compared the teams Napoli played with 2009 man United or 2015 juventus/Bayern.

[EI255]

Will watch this next few days, trailer looks superb!

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

[lyonhibs]

Read my edit. Myth that Napoli and Argentina were rubbish.

Yes Messi had good teammates. He also won better trophies against better teams. Compared the teams Napoli played with 2009 man United or 2015 juventus/Bayern.

You mean the incredible Milan team of the late 80's - Baresi, Maldini, Van Basten etc. A Juve team featuring Platini (for the first of the 2 Scudettos anyway). Swings and roundabouts there. Anyway, we shall agree to disagree although it would be interesting to see the results of a poll for the greatest footballer ever with only Messi or Maradona as the options.

[mjhibby]

Messi and Ronaldo have been on the end of some brutal tackles. Napoli were not constant relegation struggles, they were 3rd and 4th a couple of years before he joined. He didn't win the uefa cup against incredibly strong opposition, nothing like the standard that Messi and Ronaldo have beat to win champions leagues. Hearts got to the quarter finals that year.

I agree about statistics to a point. Messi literally doubles him in everything. That isn't because of the players around him. Why do you doubt Messi would've been brilliant? Have you actually seen the guy? Considering how much more professional be was than maradona, he would've absolutely strolled it. Maradona wouldn't have been fit enough or professional enough to be the best in 2020.

Napoli were struggling and were eigth in maradonas first season. You really can't compare the treatment that Pele and maradona suffered to what Messi and Ronaldo hav had to contend with. Maradona was assaulted every time he played. The tackle that gave him his first bad injury was horrendous and the punishment England meted out was shocking. No way has any footballer in the last ten years had to suffer anywhere near what Pele,maradona,eusabio and Cruyff suffered.Im not diminishing the talent of Messi and ronaldo but folk must have blinkers on to not see how so much better protected players are nowadays. As for saying maradona wouldn't have been fit enough is just plain stupid. Medical and physical conditioning are so much better now and I've no doubt maradona would be unstoppable with the protection players get now. Maybe it's a generational thing but if I had a choice who to see in their prime maradona and Pele win every time.

[Since90+2]

Every generation thinks their player is the best.

[mjhibby]

Also how do you know Messi could have coped with the brutality meted out to maradona. Youve absolutely no idea if he could. Maradona,like Kenny dalgliesh,did massive work on his ankles to withstand the batterings. It's a testament to how sensational he was that he partied like there was no tomorrow and yet produced the skills he did. That makes him even more of a genuis in my eyes. Btw I doubt very much that the Argentina commentators would have been as gushing to Messi as they were to maradona. Good to have a debate to get stuck into to distract us from the current events.

[mjhibby]

Don’t get much more 80’s nostalgia than this:

https://youtu.be/Cdf6D19Etmc

Unbelievable skills. He looks like a kid enjoying himself. Amazingly talented.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

We could debate until the cows come home who's the better player and yes Messi may well be in many regards.

Its very simple though, when Maradona passes away, Argentina will go into a collective state of prolonged national mourning. When Messi dies, Argentina will say "oh how sad" and quickly move on.

[MWHIBBIES]

We could debate until the cows come home who's the better player and yes Messi may well be in many regards.

Its very simple though, when Maradona passes away, Argentina will go into a collective state of prolonged national mourning. When Messi dies, Argentina will say "oh how sad" and quickly move on.

:faf:

I really hope that isn't how you judge footballers. That has absolutely nothing to do with who was better.

You'll see a bigger mourining in Scotland when Scott Brown dies than when Eddie Turnbull did. Guess that settles that debate as well?

When they're both long gone, 100 years from now, international success will still be the only real arguement for Maradona vs Messi winning 5 times his trophies, scoring 3 times his goals etc.

Nostalgia is really strong in here. That is fair enough, everyone loves Maradona (bizarre really because the supposed ''cheats'' of today like Suarez and Neymar get slaughtered on here) but objectively, Messi has him easily.

[hibsbollah]

Read my edit. Myth that Napoli and Argentina were rubbish.

Yes Messi had good teammates. He also won better trophies against better teams. Compared the teams Napoli played with 2009 man United or 2015 juventus/Bayern.

This argument gets dug up every six months or so, you trot out the line that it's a 'myth' that Napoli were miles away from being a top side, without providing any evidence to prove your point. Look at the relative squads of pre Diego Napoli and the Northern powers. It's obvious. And listen to the golazzo episode where they discuss the period.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6zuyIQiVd8ywI6zR7gZBa6?si=uVMMkYByQiSDAAxwz4CFWA

[BILLYHIBS]

:faf:

I really hope that isn't how you judge footballers. That has absolutely nothing to do with who was better.

You'll see a bigger mourining in Scotland when Scott Brown dies than when Eddie Turnbull did. Guess that settles that debate as well?

When they're both long gone, 100 years from now, international success will still be the only real arguement for Maradona vs Messi winning 5 times his trophies, scoring 3 times his goals etc.

Nostalgia is really strong in here. That is fair enough, everyone loves Maradona (bizarre really because the supposed ''cheats'' of today like Suarez and Neymar get slaughtered on here) but objectively, Messi has him easily.

So have you watched the Maradona Movie ( Serious Question)?

[MWHIBBIES]

So have you watched the Maradona Movie ( Serious Question)?I have not.


This argument gets dug up every six months or so, you trot out the line that it's a 'myth' that Napoli were miles away from being a top side, without providing any evidence to prove your point. Look at the relative squads of pre Diego Napoli and the Northern powers. It's obvious. And listen to the golazzo episode where they discuss the period.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6zuyIQiVd8ywI6zR7gZBa6?si=uVMMkYByQiSDAAxwz4CFWA
They weren't miles away. They obviously weren't a great side and signing him ALONG with other very good players helped. They finished 8th the season he joined, Hellas Verona won their only league title that season, probably a much bigger achievement that anything Napoli done with Maradona and kinda shows winning Serie A wasn't actually THAT difficult. He was there for the entire season, played every game and they finished 8th. They then started signings some other good players to go with him and they finished 3rd and 1st in the next 2 seasons.

If he was taking Napoli to trophies 1 vs 11, why did they finish 8th before he was joined by other good players?

[BILLYHIBS]

I have not.


They weren't miles away. They obviously weren't a great side and signing him ALONG with other very good players helped. They finished 8th the season he joined, Hellas Verona won their only league title that season, probably a much bigger achievement that anything Napoli done with Maradona and kinda shows winning Serie A wasn't actually THAT difficult. He was there for the entire season, played every game and they finished 8th. They then started signings some other good players to go with him and they finished 3rd and 1st in the next 2 seasons.

If he was taking Napoli to trophies 1 vs 11, why did they finish 8th before he was joined by other good players?
I thought as much

Maradona is a bit of a marmite character you either like him or you don’t

I would certainly recommend that you watch this movie as it is a fascinating watch and love him or hate him you cannot help but like him and well worth watching for the football content alone At the end of the day we all enjoy watching good footballers

In the movie Maradona admits that it took him a couple of seasons to readjust to the pace of Italian football and explains how he achieved this

In his middle four seasons he achieved two Scuddettos one Italian Cup one Super Cup one UEFA Cup and two second place finishes he was also loved and adored by the fans and his team mates up until it all unfortunately goes Pete Tong

Watch it with an open mind I know that Messi will always be your hero but it may change your opinion of Maradona a complicated genius

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

IMO a pointless debate. Both are best of their eras. With neither surviving in each others. Maradona would be banned for life due to lifestyle, Messi wouldn't even have made it as a pro with his growth deficiency that Barca (using modern science and medicines) were able to manage. My favourite players are Zidane and Ronaldo.

I don't like using goals/titles as a way of measuring a players ability. Over a similar period, Nicky Butt has more titles than Steven Gerrard but the latter is clearly miles ahead in terms of ability. Messi broke a record held by Gerd Muller for a number of years, that doesn't mean he was the greatest player until that point. We also play much more games now than 30/40 or 50 years ago, so naturally stats will go up and up for the consistent players.

Both players are unique, and icons of their respective eras. The game has changed so much over the years that in 30 years we'll be deliberating over some new guy and Messi about who was best (by this point Maradona will be discarded in a way Pele gets removed from the convo just now because "the game has changed so much and that wasn't real football" - it was actually)

I'm going to give the movie a watch over the weekend and looking forward to it

[MWHIBBIES]

I thought as much

Maradona is a bit of a marmite character you either like him or you don’t

I would certainly recommend that you watch this movie as it is a fascinating watch and love him or hate him you cannot help but like him and well worth watching for the football content alone At the end of the day we all enjoy watching good footballers

In the movie Maradona admits that it took him a couple of seasons to readjust to the pace of Italian football and explains how he achieved this

In his middle four seasons he achieved two Scuddettos one Italian Cup one Super Cup one UEFA Cup and two second place finishes he was also loved and adored by the fans and his team mates up until it all unfortunately goes Pete Tong

Watch it with an open mind I know that Messi will always be your hero but it may change your opinion of Maradona a complicated genius

:faf: Mate Messi really isn't my hero. He is a tax dodging prick. I am being objective and looking at the facts. I appreciate that Maradona was an excellent player, he is very entertaining and his goal against England is probably the best goal I've ever seen. I'm just trying to point out that he isn't the best ever when he isn't even the best Argentine attacking midfielder ever.

I have an open mind, I've done plenty of research on this and learn more about it whenever it comes up. Messi wins by everything except international success.

[BILLYHIBS]

:faf: Mate Messi really isn't my hero. He is a tax dodging prick. I am being objective and looking at the facts. I appreciate that Maradona was an excellent player, he is very entertaining and his goal against England is probably the best goal I've ever seen. I'm just trying to point out that he isn't the best ever when he isn't even the best Argentine attacking midfielder ever.

I have an open mind, I've done plenty of research on this and learn more about it whenever it comes up. Messi wins by everything except international success.
Pelé but seriously watch it if you get a chance I am sure you will enjoy it

[MWHIBBIES]

Pelé but seriously watch it if you get a chance I am sure you will enjoy it

I definitely will. He was undoubtedly a brilliant player and an interesting character.

Pele certainly has a case but finding acurate information that doesn't include his 400 training goals is tough.

[BILLYHIBS]

I definitely will. He was undoubtedly a brilliant player and an interesting character.

Pele certainly has a case but finding acurate information that doesn't include his 400 training goals is tough.

You could say the same thing about our very own Gordon Smith although family members if they were still here would reassure me there is no reason to doubt his greatness

Just looking at Pele’s record 1281 goals in 1361 games friendlies or not add three World Cups kicks Messis record into touch 😜

[MWHIBBIES]

You could say the same thing about our very own Gordon Smith although family members if they were still here would reassure me there is no reason to doubt his greatness

Just looking at Pele’s record 1281 goals in 1361 games friendlies or not add three World Cups kicks Messis record into touch 😜

Without friendlies if definitely doesn't. Its probably about the same as Messi, Romario and Cristiano Ronaldo.

[BILLYHIBS]

Without friendlies if definitely doesn't. Its probably about the same as Messi, Romario and Cristiano Ronaldo.

Enjoy the movie

[The Count]

Just watched the movie and really enjoyable.What a player.In the Hand of God game who was the English player that gave him the off the ball forearm smash? He should of see red.Looked like Hodge but he ended up with Maradonas shirt.

[Kato]

If Messi had been a teenager in the 1970's would the growth hormones he took have been available?

[BILLYHIBS]

If Messi had been a teenager in the 1970's would the growth hormones he took have been available?

What size would he be without them?

[Kato]

What size would he be without them?

Smaller than he is now.

[BILLYHIBS]

Smaller than he is now.

:greengrin

Maradona wisnae a giant

[660]

If Messi had a personality he might come close to D10S. Shame he doesn’t I suppose.

[HibbyAndy]

Maradonna for me best player the world has ever seen , Some of the tackles on him were outrageous , He pretty much got up and carried on not like the fairies today that would roll on the floor for 10 minutes

[MWHIBBIES]

If Messi had a personality he might come close to D10S. Shame he doesn’t I suppose.

Snorting Ching isn't a personality trait imo.

[Kato]

Snorting Ching isn't a personality trait imo.

No it's a habit that quickly turns into an addiction.

Luckily for Maradona he had more than that going for him.

I don't anything about Messi's personality tbh, seems like a blank sheet.

[MWHIBBIES]

No it's a habit that quickly turns into an addiction.

Luckily for Maradona he had more than that going for him.

I don't anything about Messi's personality tbh, seems like a blank sheet.
Or he just is a quiet, private person who keeps to himself?

[660]

Or he just is a quiet, private person who keeps to himself?

In other words, not a leader like Maradona and therefore cannot be considered the greatest.

[MWHIBBIES]

In other words, not a leader like Maradona and therefore cannot be considered the greatest.

:faf:

Yes, you must be an outspoken smack head to be considered a leader. Ridiculous logic.

[Kato]

Or he just is a quiet, private person who keeps to himself?Which contributes to his lack of inspirational qualities?

Football is the most emotional sport in the world, a leader on the park can prove crucial.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Kato]

:faf:

Yes, you must be an outspoken smack head to be considered a leader. Ridiculous logic.Not as ridiculous as the straw man you just built there.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[MWHIBBIES]

Which contributes to his lack of inspirational qualities?

Football is the most emotional sport in the world, a leader on the park can prove crucial.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk


Not as ridiculous as the straw man you just built there.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Pat Stanton was a fairly quiet guy, so is David Gray. Do their talking on the pitch. Guess they aren't inspriational either.

Messi has over 700 goals and over 30 major trophies. Not inspirational :faf: Never heard so much guff.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Pat Stanton was a fairly quiet guy, so is David Gray. Do their talking on the pitch. Guess they aren't inspriational either.

Messi has over 700 goals and over 30 major trophies. Not inspirational :faf: Never heard so much guff.

Inspired his country to hee-haw though

[MWHIBBIES]

Inspired his country to hee-haw though

4 finals isn't nothing. His record at international level is very impressive. Fine margins cost him titles. He was generally excellent in the runs to 3 of those finals.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

4 finals isn't nothing. His record at international level is very impressive. Fine margins cost him titles. He was generally excellent in the runs to 3 of those finals.

And Diego was excellent in guiding Argentina to victory in 86. Immense in fact. The stuff of legends.

[BILLYHIBS]

I read somewhere that immediately after the hand of god goal he was shouting to his teammates in Spanish “Come and hug me or the Ref won’t give the goal”

[mjhibby]

Ryan Giggs has won 13 premier League titles and two champions League. Does that make him better than George best. Doubt anybody would agree with that. Folk do lead in different ways but maradona carried the team with him and his teammates would give absolutely everything as they knew Diego could win in it in a second. It's s pointless debate as like brexit and independence most folks views are entrenched and based on age groups but I fail to see how folk can think Messi is better than maradona. Whatever rocks your boat.

[660]

4 finals isn't nothing. His record at international level is very impressive. Fine margins cost him titles. He was generally excellent in the runs to 3 of those finals.

Maybe if he wasn’t spewing before the WC final he could have won a world cup for Argentina in Brazil and could be considered alongside Diego. He didn’t because he simply doesn’t have it in him.

[Since90+2]

Maybe if he wasn’t spewing before the WC final he could have won a world cup for Argentina in Brazil and could be considered alongside Diego. He didn’t because he simply doesn’t have it in him.

He doesn't have it in him? The guy has been the best player on the planet for 10 years , a longevity at the pinnacle of the game that no player has ever matched (and far longer than Diego) , and is generally regarded as one of the greatest players of all time.

Everyone has their favourite, and it's generally based around how old you are, but to suggest "he doesn't have it in him" is quite frankly ridiculous.

[MWHIBBIES]

Maybe if he wasn’t spewing before the WC final he could have won a world cup for Argentina in Brazil and could be considered alongside Diego. He didn’t because he simply doesn’t have it in him.

:faf:

I personally would take 4 European cups anyway. A higher standard all things considered

[MWHIBBIES]

Ryan Giggs has won 13 premier League titles and two champions League. Does that make him better than George best. Doubt anybody would agree with that. Folk do lead in different ways but maradona carried the team with him and his teammates would give absolutely everything as they knew Diego could win in it in a second. It's s pointless debate as like brexit and independence most folks views are entrenched and based on age groups but I fail to see how folk can think Messi is better than maradona. Whatever rocks your boat.

What about if Ryan Giggs won all those things, scoring 2x as many goals as best, including 91 in a calendar year? There would be zero debate who was better.

It's obvious why people think it. It's true.

[Since90+2]

Ryan Giggs has won 13 premier League titles and two champions League. Does that make him better than George best. Doubt anybody would agree with that. Folk do lead in different ways but maradona carried the team with him and his teammates would give absolutely everything as they knew Diego could win in it in a second. It's s pointless debate as like brexit and independence most folks views are entrenched and based on age groups but I fail to see how folk can think Messi is better than maradona. Whatever rocks your boat.

I would imagine there is quite alot of Man Utd fans who would have Giggs ahead of Best. I don't know how old you are but if you are of the older generation you will always says Best , ask the younger generation they will say Giggs.

[FilipinoHibs]

Maradona played across leagues winning a title for Napoli and led, literally, his country to world cup glory with inferior team mates than Messi has. He is in a different class from Messi.

[BILLYHIBS]

Maradona played across leagues winning a title for Napoli and led, literally, his country to world cup glory with inferior team mates than Messi has. He is in a different class from Messi.
Two titles one cup one Super Cup one UEFA Cup and two second place finishes

[MWHIBBIES]

Maradona played across leagues winning a title for Napoli and led, literally, his country to world cup glory with inferior team mates than Messi has. He is in a different class from Messi.

Did he have inferior team mates? His teammates scored a lot more goals on the run to the final than Messis in 2014. Messi has won 10 titles. 4 European cups. There is no class above Messi.

[The Count]

Not a believer in trying to say who is best from different era's.In my life time there has been in my opinion three footballers that stood above all others being Pele,Maradona and Messi.You cannot separate them.

[mjhibby]

I would imagine there is quite alot of Man Utd fans who would have Giggs ahead of Best. I don't know how old you are but if you are of the older generation you will always says Best , ask the younger generation they will say Giggs.

You are obviously of a younger generation as best is in a different planet to giggs. Can't believe any utd fan believes that. Best and maradona had very similar paths and unfortunately suffered the same slings and arrows of fate. Giggs better than best. Wow.

[Since90+2]

You are obviously of a younger generation as best is in a different planet to giggs. Can't believe any utd fan believes that. Best and maradona had very similar paths and unfortunately suffered the same slings and arrows of fate. Giggs better than best. Wow.

I don't really have a strong opinion on it to be honest - I never seen Best play and I don't watch alot of English football.

I am just pointing out that depending on what generation you ask you will get different answers.

It's an impossible question to answer anyway as there are so many variables. There is no right or wrong answer.

[mjhibby]

I'd recommend everbody watch the documentary and see what he went through in his life. If he had gone to maybe Bayern Munich and had done structure to his life I don't think we would be debating who is the best. The fact he still won the league and eufa cup while gripped by cocaine is mind-blowing. A truly fallible human being but what a footballer. So glad I grew up in his era. I wonder who the Argentinians think is better. Mmmm.

[supermcginn]

Maradona played across leagues winning a title for Napoli and led, literally, his country to world cup glory with inferior team mates than Messi has. He is in a different class from Messi.
Biggest lot of guff i've ever read, messi is the greatest player in history, fact!

[mjhibby]

Biggest lot of guff i've ever read, messi is the greatest player in history, fact!

Guff or inconvenient facts to your arguments. Which part is incorrect.

[Kato]

Pat Stanton was a fairly quiet guy, so is David Gray. Do their talking on the pitch. Guess they aren't inspriational either.

How many World Cups have they either of them dragged Scotland to?


Messi has over 700 goals and over 30 major trophies. Not inspirational :faf: Never heard so much guff.

Yeah, mate the stats stuff has been done to death above. :rolleyes:

You want to drag Messi's stats out at every turn and brand Maradona as a mere junkie when his personal traits are mentioned, arguments that are one dimensional, lacking nuance and repetitive.

For what it's worth I haven't sided with either as the "greatest ever" as it's pointless comparing across eras, some older Hibs fans in the early 50's scoffed at the Famous Five saying the thought the early 20's team was way better.

What can be said is that Maradona is now a legendary figure of the 20th Century, up there with Ali as an icon that goes beyond their sporting achievements. The 21st Century has yet to throw up any such inspirational figure.

[BILLYHIBS]

Biggest lot of guff i've ever read, messi is the greatest player in history, fact!

Just even googling the greatest player of all time the following show :

90 mins : Maradona

Novibet : Pelé

Si com : Maradona

Story tell : Pelé

IMDb : Pele

Sportshow: Pele

No mention of Messi

[Barman Stanton]

I'd recommend everbody watch the documentary and see what he went through in his life. If he had gone to maybe Bayern Munich and had done structure to his life I don't think we would be debating who is the best. The fact he still won the league and eufa cup while gripped by cocaine is mind-blowing. A truly fallible human being but what a footballer. So glad I grew up in his era. I wonder who the Argentinians think is better. Mmmm.

He also peaked after his ankle was kicked apart in Spain. Frightening to think what he would do today with the referees protection. Would also love to have seen Van Basten with that type of protection. The best players were just kicked around the park in those days.

[MWHIBBIES]

How many World Cups have they either of them dragged Scotland to?



Yeah, mate the stats stuff has been done to death above. :rolleyes:

You want to drag Messi's stats out at every turn and brand Maradona as a mere junkie when his personal traits are mentioned, arguments that are one dimensional, lacking nuance and repetitive.

For what it's worth I haven't sided with either as the "greatest ever" as it's pointless comparing across eras, some older Hibs fans in the early 50's scoffed at the Famous Five saying the thought the early 20's team was way better.

What can be said is that Maradona is now a legendary figure of the 20th Century, up there with Ali as an icon that goes beyond their sporting achievements. The 21st Century has yet to throw up any such inspirational figure.

If you don't find Messi inspriational that is up to you. His performances certainly are.

I have said many positive things about Maradona so I won't bother with the rest of your post because its nonsense.

I understand the stats argument if it wasn't maybe 100 goals. He has DOUBLE in every catagory. Maradona scored over 350 goals and Messi has double him. How is that not inspirational. If you think Maradona was so good, surely a guy scoring DOUBLE what he did is inspirational?

How many European cups did Maradona drag Barcelona to?

[MWHIBBIES]

Just even googling the greatest player of all time the following show :

90 mins : Maradona

Novibet : Pelé

Si com : Maradona

Story tell : Pelé

IMDb : Pele

Sportshow: Pele

No mention of Messi

23114

Yes Billy, you're correct, no mention of Messi anywhere.

[BILLYHIBS]

23114

Yes Billy, you're correct, no mention of Messi anywhere.

OK now scroll down and let me know who they all vote for?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

As per my list above to save you the bother

As I said no mention of Messi

[Kato]

If you don't find Messi inspriational that is up to you. His performances certainly are.

I have said many positive things about Maradona so I won't bother with the rest of your post because its nonsense.

I understand the stats argument if it wasn't maybe 100 goals. He has DOUBLE in every catagory. Maradona scored over 350 goals and Messi has double him. How is that not inspirational. If you think Maradona was so good, surely a guy scoring DOUBLE what he did is inspirational?

How many European cups did Maradona drag Barcelona to?

You've stopped listening.

[MWHIBBIES]

You've stopped listening.

:faf: Thought so

[MWHIBBIES]

OK now scroll down and let me know who they all vote for?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

As per my list above to save you the bother

As I said no mention of Messi

Ah yes, IMDB, a true source of football knowledge :faf:

[BILLYHIBS]

Ah yes, IMDB, a true source of football knowledge :faf:

Naw but good for movies

Have you watched it yet?

[thebausburst]

2nd best? Messi is astounding but Maradona won Napoli’s first ever scudetto. Their first ever league championship. He not only did it at the world Cup, he did it in the toughest league in the World, against the best players in the world. With a team that had never won a scudetto or European cup, he took an ok team and made them world beaters. It's easier to be great in a team like Barca where you are surroundedby 10 other great players. That's what will always make Maradona different, and why he was and is still the best.

Not just that, he carried the world and every football fanatics expectations (except those of the st George brigade's) on his shoulders and performed for them every time. He was a 'super star' in the sense he performed both off the pitch as well as on it; something Messi has never been comfortablei doing,and possibly why the debate of Ronaldo vs Messi rages on.

This 100% 👏👏

[660]

Naw but good for movies

Have you watched it yet?

He hasn’t watched it because it only shows 54 goals whereas the Messi documentary shows 983.

[BILLYHIBS]

He hasn’t watched it because it only shows 54 goals whereas the Messi documentary shows 983.

😂

Seriously I honestly do feel he would enjoy it

At the end of the day we are all football fans and it will make him appreciate what Maradona achieved at Napoli

[MWHIBBIES]

😂

Seriously I honestly do feel he would enjoy it

At the end of the day we are all football fans and it will make him appreciate what Maradona achieved at NapoliI appreciate perfectly well what he achieved. I've said this multiple times. It was very impressive what Napoli achieved as a team during that time. They were a good side. You're the one doing them an injustice by making out he was going 1 vs 11 every week.


He hasn’t watched it because it only shows 54 goals whereas the Messi documentary shows 983.Always a sign you've made a good argument when, instead of replying to points you've made, people make daft jibes.

[BILLYHIBS]

I appreciate perfectly well what he achieved. I've said this multiple times. It was very impressive what Napoli achieved as a team during that time. They were a good side. You're the one doing them an injustice by making out he was going 1 vs 11 every week.

Always a sign you've made a good argument when, instead of replying to points you've made, people make daft jibes.

Never said that said Napoli players were decent also as regards Argentina everyone reckoned they had no chance but like Napoli Maradona dragged Argentina over the line kicking and screaming something Messi never achieved

Vive La difference

Still waiting on you to come back to me with someone that thinks Messi is the greatest footballer ever apart from you ? 😁

[MWHIBBIES]

Never said that said Napoli players were decent also as regards Argentina everyone reckoned they had no chance but like Napoli Maradona dragged Argentina over the line kicking and screaming something Messi never achieved

Vive Le difference

Still waiting on you to come back to me with someone that thinks Messi is the greatest footballer ever apart from you ? 😁Messi dragged Argentina to a final, same as Maradona. Maradonas striker scored the 1v1 Vs the German goalie to win it. Messis missed. Literally that simple. That's the only difference. If Higuain had scored and Argentina won there would be zero argument. Everyone also thought Argentina had no chance in 2014. Messi changed that.
Why is having excellent teammates some sort of argument against Messi? Barcelona have seen terrific players come and go over the last 15 years. He has remained, he has dominated, he has raised the level of those around him, he very much has dragged them to titles, especially recently.


"I think he has reached and surpassed the level of Maradona" - Paolo Maldini

“I was a big fan of Maradona growing up and of the current crop Ronaldo is good, but Messi is the best I’ve ever seen. I don’t dish out praise lightly, but Messi deserves it. I look for weaknesses in his game and I can’t find them" - Roy Keane

“Lionel Messi is quite clearly the best player ever. It’s a pleasure to pit myself against him and when I finish my career it’s something I can look back on and know I’ve tested myself against the very best" - John Terry

“He’s well above anything else I’ve ever seen. He’s an alien.” - Carles Puyol



"Messi will be the player to win the most Ballons d’Or in history. He will win five, six, seven. He is incomparable. He’s in a different league.” - Johan Cruyff


“Messi is the best in the world without any doubt and for me the history of football.” - Luis Enrique


There you go Billy. I appreciate it's no IMDb but it's something.

[BILLYHIBS]

Messi dragged Argentina to a final, same as Maradona. Maradonas striker scored the 1v1 Vs the German goalie to win it. Messis missed. Literally that simple. That's the only difference. If Higuain had scored and Argentina won there would be zero argument. Everyone also thought Argentina had no chance in 2014. Messi changed that.
Why is having excellent teammates some sort of argument against Messi? Barcelona have seen terrific players come and go over the last 15 years. He has remained, he has dominated, he has raised the level of those around him, he very much has dragged them to titles, especially recently.


"I think he has reached and surpassed the level of Maradona" - Paolo Maldini

“I was a big fan of Maradona growing up and of the current crop Ronaldo is good, but Messi is the best I’ve ever seen. I don’t dish out praise lightly, but Messi deserves it. I look for weaknesses in his game and I can’t find them" - Roy Keane

“Lionel Messi is quite clearly the best player ever. It’s a pleasure to pit myself against him and when I finish my career it’s something I can look back on and know I’ve tested myself against the very best" - John Terry

“He’s well above anything else I’ve ever seen. He’s an alien.” - Carles Puyol



"Messi will be the player to win the most Ballons d’Or in history. He will win five, six, seven. He is incomparable. He’s in a different league.” - Johan Cruyff


“Messi is the best in the world without any doubt and for me the history of football.” - Luis Enrique


There you go Billy. I appreciate it's no IMDb but it's something.

1) Pelé

2) Maradona

3) Messi/ Ronaldo

All of the above of course imho 😁

Agree with Cruyff as it has come to pass

[MWHIBBIES]

1) Pelé

2) Maradona

3) Messi/ Ronaldo

All of the above of course imho 😁

Agree with Cruyff as it has come to pass

That's fine. I'll go with the guy who played against them both, Mr Maldini.

[BILLYHIBS]

That's fine. I'll go with the guy who played against them both, Mr Maldini.

Good point checked him out no a bad player only ever played for Milan

Once again we agree to disagree

Fancy that! 😁

Nothing of course to do with the fact that Argentina knocked Italy out of the 1990 World Cup at the semi final stage In Naples and Maradona had half of Italy supporting Argentina?

Spoiler: That was the turning point for Maradona in Italy and with Italians

Bad choice by the Italian FA

Who knew?

I keep saying it watch the f#$€ing movie ! 😁

Oh that will be another World Cup Final Maradona got Argentina to does that count?

[Kato]

Messi dragged Argentina to a final, same as Maradona. Maradonas striker scored the 1v1 Vs the German goalie to win it. Messis missed. Literally that simple. That's the only difference. If Higuain had scored and Argentina won there would be zero argument. Everyone also thought Argentina had no chance in 2014. Messi changed that.
Why is having excellent teammates some sort of argument against Messi? Barcelona have seen terrific players come and go over the last 15 years. He has remained, he has dominated, he has raised the level of those around him, he very much has dragged them to titles, especially recently.


"I think he has reached and surpassed the level of Maradona" - Paolo Maldini

“I was a big fan of Maradona growing up and of the current crop Ronaldo is good, but Messi is the best I’ve ever seen. I don’t dish out praise lightly, but Messi deserves it. I look for weaknesses in his game and I can’t find them" - Roy Keane

“Lionel Messi is quite clearly the best player ever. It’s a pleasure to pit myself against him and when I finish my career it’s something I can look back on and know I’ve tested myself against the very best" - John Terry

“He’s well above anything else I’ve ever seen. He’s an alien.” - Carles Puyol



"Messi will be the player to win the most Ballons d’Or in history. He will win five, six, seven. He is incomparable. He’s in a different league.” - Johan Cruyff


“Messi is the best in the world without any doubt and for me the history of football.” - Luis Enrique


There you go Billy. I appreciate it's no IMDb but it's something.For do's MWHIBBIES, that is a good post.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[BILLYHIBS]

P
For do's MWHIBBIES, that is a good post.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Aye must have worked hard on that :greengrin

But ex team mates blowing smoke up his arse and tv pundits I prefer to see it coming from a vote from the people in the shape of opinion polls but so far still nothing forthcoming

If ah could be arsed I am sure I could get loads of Maradonas exteammates and football commentators saying the exact same thing about him

To many Maradona has god like status and they worship at the Church of Maradona he has achieved his place in history and immortality

Dinnae get me wrong ah like Messi but cannae see past Pelé and Maradona for natural ability

So there we are

[Pagan Hibernia]

Messi dragged Argentina to a final, same as Maradona. Maradonas striker scored the 1v1 Vs the German goalie to win it. Messis missed. Literally that simple. That's the only difference. If Higuain had scored and Argentina won there would be zero argument. Everyone also thought Argentina had no chance in 2014. Messi changed that.
Why is having excellent teammates some sort of argument against Messi? Barcelona have seen terrific players come and go over the last 15 years. He has remained, he has dominated, he has raised the level of those around him, he very much has dragged them to titles, especially recently.


"I think he has reached and surpassed the level of Maradona" - Paolo Maldini

“I was a big fan of Maradona growing up and of the current crop Ronaldo is good, but Messi is the best I’ve ever seen. I don’t dish out praise lightly, but Messi deserves it. I look for weaknesses in his game and I can’t find them" - Roy Keane

“Lionel Messi is quite clearly the best player ever. It’s a pleasure to pit myself against him and when I finish my career it’s something I can look back on and know I’ve tested myself against the very best" - John Terry

“He’s well above anything else I’ve ever seen. He’s an alien.” - Carles Puyol



"Messi will be the player to win the most Ballons d’Or in history. He will win five, six, seven. He is incomparable. He’s in a different league.” - Johan Cruyff


“Messi is the best in the world without any doubt and for me the history of football.” - Luis Enrique


There you go Billy. I appreciate it's no IMDb but it's something.

Its an excellent post except for the first paragraph.

Maradona’s performance in 1986 and Messi’s performance in 2014 simply aren’t comparable.

yes, Messi’s goals got Argentina through the group stage. But his performances then noticeably declined. Argentina scored only two goals in their last 4 matches in that tournament. Messi scored none and was frankly invisible in some games. He did not play well in the final.

in 86 maradona dominated that World Cup. Absolutely dominated it from start to finish, every game Argentina played. The 1 v 1 in the final you spoke about, Burrachaga was played through by a sensational through ball from Diego in the final minutes when it appeared Argentina were crumbling and the Germans were most people’s favourites to win it. He stepped up at a critical moment and dragged Argentina over the line. Higuain missed his 1 v1 in 2014 after a poor defensive header put him through.

Messi may well be the better player. You’ve certainly made a good case for it. I don’t really care because I consider myself fortunate to have seen both but there is simply no comparison between the world cups of 1986 and 2014.

[mjhibby]

Also I'd love to see stats for assists especially in big games. Maradonas pass to win the world cup was just the most sublime piece of skill under immense pressure I've seen. He seemed to be on the same wavelength as his teammates whereas Messi tended to try to do it himself. Opinions eh.

[MWHIBBIES]

Also I'd love to see stats for assists especially in big games. Maradonas pass to win the world cup was just the most sublime piece of skill under immense pressure I've seen. He seemed to be on the same wavelength as his teammates whereas Messi tended to try to do it himself. Opinions eh.

I don't think they will be even close. Messi dominates big games, he doesn't try to do it himself. He has 289 career assists.

[660]

Always a sign you've made a good argument when, instead of replying to points you've made, people make daft jibes.

No it was a subtle joke around the fact you are using statistics to judge something which is creative and emotive.

[we are hibs]

Messi is the best human to ever kick a ball by a distance. then comes Maradona.


Those who think otherwise are the kind of people who thought Joe Keenan was a player.

[Barman Stanton]

Also I'd love to see stats for assists especially in big games. Maradonas pass to win the world cup was just the most sublime piece of skill under immense pressure I've seen. He seemed to be on the same wavelength as his teammates whereas Messi tended to try to do it himself. Opinions eh.

At Mexico 86 he assisted or scored 10 of Argentina’s 14 goals. Also had 3 times more dribbles than anyone else at the World Cup. He literally dragged Argentina to a World Cup win. Something I just don’t think Messi can do. But like you say, opinions eh.

[MWHIBBIES]

At Mexico 86 he assisted or scored 10 of Argentina’s 14 goals. Also had 3 times more dribbles than anyone else at the World Cup. He literally dragged Argentina to a World Cup win. Something I just don’t think Messi can do. But like you say, opinions eh.

Messi dragged Barcelona to 3 European cups, is that worse?

[FilipinoHibs]

Messi has scored all his goals in the most financially unequal major league in Europe. Ronaldo, CR7, matched his scoring record while he was in Spain.
Not won the Champions league for 5 years. Has never won the copa de america or world cup.

When the bar is raised Messi fails.

[MWHIBBIES]

Messi has scored all his goals in the most financially unequal major league in Europe. Ronaldo, CR7, matched his scoring record while he was in Spain.
Not won the Champions league for 5 years. Has never won the copa de america or world cup.

When the bar is raised Messi fails.

Except his 10 league titles and 4 European cups yes, great point. Those 2 other generational players matched him yes. Maradona certainly didn't. Maradona also never win the Copa America.

He also has nearly 100 goals in Europe and 70 for Argentina. Face it, he scores against whoever he plays at all levels.

[BILLYHIBS]

Maradona did not have Xavi and Iniesta laying the ball on a plate for him
Maradona at that time played in the most competitive league in Europe with Juve and Milan and even the smallest clubs in Serie A all boasting Brazilian internationals
The big difference for me is that Maradona scored all types of goals headed left foot right foot direct from corners or free kicks with 63 recorded goals direct from free kick whereas Messi is all left foot has 38 recorded direct free kick goals but of course still has time on his side to catch up even although he is not always first choice free kick taker

[MWHIBBIES]

Maradona did not have Xavi and Iniesta laying the ball on a plate for him
Maradona at that time played in the most competitive league in Europe with Juve and Milan and even the smallest clubs in Serie A all boasting Brazilian internationals
The big difference for me is that Maradona scored all types of goals headed left foot right foot direct from corners or free kicks with 63 recorded goals direct from free kick whereas Messi is all left foot has 38 recorded direct free kick goals but of course still has time on his side to catch up even although he is not always first choice free kick taker

Messi hasn't had Xavi for 5 years. He has continued to average nearly 50 goals a full season (214 club goals in 5 years since Xavi left, Maradona got 310 in his entire 22 year club career) . He has scored 85 goals with his right foot and 55 with his head. He clearly isn't all left foot. He also has 52 recorded direct free kicks so should easily catch Maradona despite having Xavi, Henry, Ronaldinho etc taking them for years.

[BILLYHIBS]

Messi hasn't had Xavi for 5 years. He has continued to average nearly 50 goals a full season (214 club goals in 5 years since Xavi left, Maradona got 310 in his entire 22 year club career) . He has scored 85 goals with his right foot and 55 with his head. He clearly isn't all left foot. He also has 52 recorded direct free kicks so should easily catch Maradona despite having Xavi, Henry, Ronaldinho etc taking them for years.

If you say so

[hibsbollah]

They will have discovered a vaccine well before this thread is finished.

[660]

Messi’s ability to lead a team were truly on show when Barca bottled it against Roma and Liverpool.

[BILLYHIBS]

They will have discovered a vaccine well before this thread is finished.

😂

[MWHIBBIES]

Messi’s ability to lead a team were truly on show when Barca bottled it against Roma and Liverpool.

Brilliant example. You'd be removing every leader in history, including Maradona, if you used that logic. All teams lose games.

[MWHIBBIES]

If you say so

You're struggling to make any argument stick here Billy.

[BILLYHIBS]

You're struggling to make any argument stick here Billy.

I think I have more than proved my point but you crack on

Still waiting on you to produce a poll that says Messi is GOAT but have given up waiting tbh

Pelé and Maradona keep getting in the way even Pelé thinks Maradona is the better player between the two

Anyway good luck to Messi for the rest of his career does he still play for Argentina or has he given that up as a bad joke?


https://en.as.com/en/2018/12/06/football/1544122661_793685.html

[Hakim Sar]

I think pre knee injury Ronaldo (Brazil) is the single greatest existence of a footballer ever seen.

I think Cristiano is better than Messi. Cristiano is one of the greatest physical specimens I’ve seen in professional sports... he has the stats, he has achieved in multiple top leagues, multiple international successes, incredible highlight reel and so on.

i think Diego is in the top 5.. I agree that he was kicked to smithereens often times and still came up with the goods. Diego playing nowadays where every whiff of a tackle around the box, every slight grab of a jersey, every shoulder to shoulder is a free kick in favour of the attacker... he would be truly truly unreal. Imagine a FIT Diego Maradona with referee protection, a modern diet and sports science he would romp any league and any team in the world imho.

But I like to use something called the eye test, often talked about in American sports when stats don’t show the full story (example a mediocre quarterback throwing for 100 yards and 2 touchdowns in garbage time (last 5 mins) of a game they are already heavily losing).

And from my perspective, using my eyes only, Zinedine Zidane is king. The absolute god of football as far as I am concerned. Grace, poise, balance (incredible balance for a “big” guy), the highlight reel, the leadership, the inspiration. Winning and scoring in the biggest of bigliest moments possible. A set price wizard, the skill of a Ronaldinho, could header the ball, could volley, could tackle. Just a magnificent hero of mine.

[MWHIBBIES]

I think I have more than proved my point but you crack on

Still waiting on you to produce a poll that says Messi is GOAT but have given up waiting tbh

Pelé and Maradona keep getting in the way even Pelé thinks Maradona is the better player between the two

Anyway good luck to Messi for the rest of his career does he still play for Argentina or has he given that up as a bad joke?


https://en.as.com/en/2018/12/06/football/1544122661_793685.html

A poll :faf: Come on mate, really?

He does still play for Argentina, record goalscorer and 8 caps away from that record too.

[BILLYHIBS]

A poll :faf: Come on mate, really?

He does still play for Argentina, record goalscorer and 8 caps away from that record too.

More votes for Maradona inc from the great Zlatan

https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2019/03/28/5c9cd9a4468aebe2788b4678.html

Now be a good boy and run along now as I am in lockdown and need to work my way through my Maradona World Cup boxset :greengrin

[MWHIBBIES]

More votes for Maradona inc from the great Zlatan

https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2019/03/28/5c9cd9a4468aebe2788b4678.html

Now be a good boy and run along now as I am in lockdown and need to work my way through my Maradona World Cup boxset :greengrin

A Madrid based newspaper widely known for being very pro Real and very anti Barca? Yeah, that is conclusive proof :faf:

I think its you who needs to run along.

[BILLYHIBS]

A Madrid based newspaper widely known for being very pro Real and very anti Barca? Yeah, that is conclusive proof :faf:

I think its you who needs to run along.

Watch the god damned movie

[Barman Stanton]

Messi dragged Barcelona to 3 European cups, is that worse?

I don’t think Messi has dragged Barca to anything. Every Barca team he has been in is full of world class players. Good chance they win anyway with players like Henry, Eto’o, Villa, Suarez, Neymar etc up front.

[660]

A Madrid based newspaper widely known for being very pro Real and very anti Barca? Yeah, that is conclusive proof :faf:

I think its you who needs to run along.

Didn’t you quote 3 ex-Barca players previously lol

[BILLYHIBS]

Didn’t you quote 3 ex-Barca players previously lol

:faf:

[Kato]

I don’t think Messi has dragged Barca to anything.

Agree with this.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[A Hi-Bee]

Even though I seen Maradona in the flesh destroy Stuttgart for Napoli in EUFA final, and without doubt Messi is magic, Pele stands above them in my humble of course. Pretty much won the World cup for Brazil at 18 then again in Mexica against a great Italian side, would have won it in 66 if he had not been kicjed off the park then, and we would not have had to put up wi them for so many years. Aye its Pele for me.

[FilipinoHibs]

A poll :faf: Come on mate, really?

He does still play for Argentina, record goalscorer and 8 caps away from that record too.

Retired a few times and won SFA for Argentina. This thread is getting like SportsBible.

[BILLYHIBS]

Even though I seen Maradona in the flesh destroy Stuttgart for Napoli in EUFA final, and without doubt Messi is magic, Pele stands above them in my humble of course. Pretty much won the World cup for Brazil at 18 then again in Mexica against a great Italian side, would have won it in 66 if he had not been kicjed off the park then, and we would not have had to put up wi them for so many years. Aye its Pele for me.
This

[MWHIBBIES]

Retired a few times and won SFA for Argentina. This thread is getting like SportsBible.

Retired because of the abuse he gets and the pressure affecting his mental health. He always comes back and carries them to tournaments, then plays well at the tournaments but because he cant take 5 penalties himself or take Higuains chance for him he hasn't won anything.

Why does Maradonas 1 achievment at international level eclispe Messis far, far better career at club level? (It doesn't)

[Pagan Hibernia]

Retired because of the abuse he gets and the pressure affecting his mental health. He always comes back and carries them to tournaments, then plays well at the tournaments but because he cant take 5 penalties himself or take Higuains chance for him he hasn't won anything.

Why does Maradonas 1 achievment at international level eclispe Messis far, far better career at club level? (It doesn't)

aye, Maradona achieved nothing at club level :rolleyes:

[Green Reaper]

Even though I seen Maradona in the flesh destroy Stuttgart for Napoli in EUFA final, and without doubt Messi is magic, Pele stands above them in my humble of course. Pretty much won the World cup for Brazil at 18 then again in Mexica against a great Italian side, would have won it in 66 if he had not been kicjed off the park then, and we would not have had to put up wi them for so many years. Aye its Pele for me.
How I see it

[FilipinoHibs]

aye, Maradona achieved nothing at club level :rolleyes:

And Messi plays in the most unequal financial major league in Europe and has achieved nothing outside Spain club wise for 5 years - Note Xavi and Iniesta no longer at Barca

[IWasThere2016]

Have watched recently -

Maradona 10/10

Matthews 8/10

Leeds Series 9/10


Also really enjoyed Stan and Ollie .. Coogan exceptional in that

[Pagan Hibernia]

And Messi plays in the most unequal financial major league in Europe and has achieved nothing outside Spain club wise for 5 years - Note Xavi and Iniesta no longer at Barca

dont know if that was aimed at me but I was being sarcastic

[MWHIBBIES]

aye, Maradona achieved nothing at club level :rolleyes:

No, he actually achieved a lot, a fantastic career. Look him up mate.

[BILLYHIBS]

Have watched recently -

Maradona 10/10

Matthews 8/10

Leeds Series 9/10


Also really enjoyed Stan and Ollie .. Coogan exceptional in that

Aye don’t normally like Coogan but he had Laurel to a tee

Greavsie was also very good watch out for it on BT Sport films

[Pagan Hibernia]

No, he actually achieved a lot, a fantastic career. Look him up mate.


Good. So it’s not really maradona’s 1 international achievement vs Messi’s amazing club career.

Glad we’ve cleared that up. :aok:

[MWHIBBIES]

Good. So it’s not really maradona’s 1 international achievement vs Messi’s amazing club career.

Glad we’ve cleared that up. :aok:

Messi has had a better club career, surely that cant be denied

[hibsbollah]

**** me Jarndyce Vs Jarndyce continues.

[MWHIBBIES]

**** me Jarndyce Vs Jarndyce continues.

Is there something wrong with us talking about this?

[BILLYHIBS]

**** me Jarndyce Vs Jarndyce continues.

Tend to agree

It is a football forum but Maradona v Messi is a divisive issue both have excellent qualities both have pros and cons both brilliant players and will live forever in the hearts of many football fans

There is no real correct answer as to who is the best and like the Pelé thing it is more a generational thing but us oldies all know Pelé is the best

It is a debate that can go on forever and we can keep going round and round in circles but I am sure when Messi retires he will be closer to if he has not overtaken Pelé and Maradona in the race to be GOAT

Long may the debate continue

[mjhibby]

Like squaring a circle. The story of the 86 world cup and Diego's dominanition is available on catch up if your Digibox lets you. The last great world cup imho. No player,maybe bar Zidane has come close in world cup finals to maradona. Only Pele in my eyes has even matched him. The 70 world cup the best ever followed by 82 with the best ever game being Brazil 2 Rossi 3. Almost cried at the end of that. What a game though. Incredible quality apart from being Brazil's defending.

[BILLYHIBS]

Like squaring a circle. The story of the 86 world cup and Diego's dominanition is available on catch up if your Digibox lets you. The last great world cup imho. No player,maybe bar Zidane has come close in world cup finals to maradona. Only Pele in my eyes has even matched him. The 70 world cup the best ever followed by 82 with the best ever game being Brazil 2 Rossi 3. Almost cried at the end of that. What a game though. Incredible quality apart from being Brazil's defending.

Remember Zicos goal

Brilliant!

Rossi was gash all he did was score goals 😜

[Itsnoteasy]

Unbelievable skills. He looks like a kid enjoying himself. Amazingly talented.

I remember Dougie Bells pre match warm up used to consist of 10 mins keepie up & the ball never touched the deck.

[BILLYHIBS]

I remember Dougie Bells pre match warm up used to consist of 10 mins keepie up & the ball never touched the deck.

John Blackley was the exact same

Anyone remember Budgie?

https://youtu.be/BRulE9858eE