How do teams deal with high press?

[Thief]

Hearts game plan last night was very effective and we struggled big time with their hunting in packs and giving us no time on the ball. It reminded me a bit of the high press adopted by the Rangers at Home which we struggled with as well.
Since Jack came in we have a fairly settled team with players who all have a reasonable first touch, and collectively, we seem to have been working on our movement off the ball and offering options to the player in possession. Forgetting actual defending for a minute, our defence also seem to have been working on retaining possession and often side stepping the initial tackle, to buy a few seconds, before finding a midfielder or passing out wide and I’ve been quite impressed with our progress with that. Obviously our defending in general is work in progress and other posters have covered that in great detail.

Most things seem to me to have improved under the new manager but last night, we were woeful and I just wondered what other folks opinions are as to how to deal with the high press.
I don’t watch much other football, but as much as there seems to be a number of teams who adopt this style of play, then there must be a reasonable counter to it. Or is there?


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[BlackSheep]

Hearts game plan last night was very effective and we struggled big time with their hunting in packs and giving us no time on the ball. It reminded me a bit of the high press adopted by the Rangers at Home which we struggled with as well.
Since Jack came in we have a fairly settled team with players who all have a reasonable first touch, and collectively, we seem to have been working on our movement off the ball and offering options to the player in possession. Forgetting actual defending for a minute, our defence also seem to have been working on retaining possession and often side stepping the initial tackle, to buy a few seconds, before finding a midfielder or passing out wide and I’ve been quite impressed with our progress with that. Obviously our defending in general is work in progress and other posters have covered that in great detail.

Most things seem to me to have improved under the new manager but last night, we were woeful and I just wondered what other folks opinions are as to how to deal with the high press.
I don’t watch much other football, but as much as there seems to be a number of teams who adopt this style of play, then there must be a reasonable counter to it. Or is there?


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We also have a few very quick players so our counter attack game is much improved under Ross, last night Hearts stifled any attempt at a counter so we were left looking for new ideas.... Hopefully Ross and Co will have a few ideas up their sleeves that can be put into practice in training as last night we didn't have an answer.

[Jones28]

The key is having players at the back with the ability to play it forward while under pressure. We tried two things last night, neither of which worked; howf it up to Doidge and hope for the best or try and play through the midfield.

As soon as the back three had the ball it should have been triggers for the wide players to pull out and find space. It worked ok with Boyle in the first half but we didn’t show any quality in the second. Stevenson can’t play wingback. He was good at the role under Lennon but his crossing has regressed and his lack of ability to take on his man is his biggest failing. That and having no right foot.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Does quick one and two touch football not beat it?

We didn’t manage it last night but the players are there to do it - they just weren’t in it last night.

[BlackSheep]

The key is having players at the back with the ability to play it forward while under pressure. We tried two things last night, neither of which worked; howf it up to Doidge and hope for the best or try and play through the midfield.

As soon as the back three had the ball it should have been triggers for the wide players to pull out and find space. It worked ok with Boyle in the first half but we didn’t show any quality in the second. Stevenson can’t play wingback. He was good at the role under Lennon but his crossing has regressed and his lack of ability to take on his man is his biggest failing. That and having no right foot.

His tendency to fall back into a left back position too. I found myself shouting numerous times last night and of late for Lewy to pass his man back to Hanlon and go close down the opposing right midfielder... His style of play left us unbalanced and lets the opposition come forward. Need to try Fraser Murray out there, he played well in that area early in the season, time he got a shot.

Gullan in for McNulty too please.

[Lago]

His tendency to fall back into a left back position too. I found myself shouting numerous times last night and of late for Lewy to pass his man back to Hanlon and go close down the opposing right midfielder... His style of play left us unbalanced and lets the opposition come forward. Need to try Fraser Murray out there, he played well in that area early in the season, time he got a shot.

Gullan in for McNulty too please.
Lewy is a left back, a defender & a pretty competitive one that's his strengths asking him to bomb up the wing doesn't really work, not his fault.

[coldingham hibs]

Moving the ball quickly & running off the ball into space will go a long way to beating it. We were static throughout the game making it easy to close down.

[sean04]

Hearts game plan last night was very effective and we struggled big time with their hunting in packs and giving us no time on the ball. It reminded me a bit of the high press adopted by the Rangers at Home which we struggled with as well.
Since Jack came in we have a fairly settled team with players who all have a reasonable first touch, and collectively, we seem to have been working on our movement off the ball and offering options to the player in possession. Forgetting actual defending for a minute, our defence also seem to have been working on retaining possession and often side stepping the initial tackle, to buy a few seconds, before finding a midfielder or passing out wide and I’ve been quite impressed with our progress with that. Obviously our defending in general is work in progress and other posters have covered that in great detail.

Most things seem to me to have improved under the new manager but last night, we were woeful and I just wondered what other folks opinions are as to how to deal with the high press.
I don’t watch much other football, but as much as there seems to be a number of teams who adopt this style of play, then there must be a reasonable counter to it. Or is there?


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The same way every other team in the league beats them

[scooby]

Does quick one and two touch football not beat it?

We didn’t manage it last night but the players are there to do it - they just weren’t in it last night.

Yes it does, but our players were spooked last night and panicked when they had the ball. We ended up playing more hoofball than the jambos, which I couldn't believe.
Our midfield was completely overrun and couldn't string any passes together.
Over to you Jack, because were facing a repeat of this at Hampden and we look Ill prepared to deal with it.
We've just handed them a massive psychological boost.

[BlackSheep]

Lewy is a left back, a defender & a pretty competitive one that's his strengths asking him to bomb up the wing doesn't really work, not his fault.

I didnt say it was his 'fault' but Ross has to identify this and make a choice, the system we play doesn't suit Lewy so don't play him.

[I'm Spartacus]

For me the way to beat it means you have to be very slick on the pass and move, you need to play wide and stretch that play so the press pulls players out of more central positions leaving space for box/pyramid passing.

A 12 year old's Box Soccer coaches this (kind of).

The pitch is bobbly as F so players need to take a touch to control.

[Roxyhibee]

That was not a high press tactic game from them last night. It was an old fashioned battling in your face derby performance and we absolutely ***** it.

We think we are a lot better than we actually are and that was a glaring problem, taking ponderous touches and getting caught out time and again.

[ahibby]

I think you use it to your advantage so when three surround one with ball in mid that one passes back who then plays long. The problem was when closed down quickly we couldnt see an out. We need to be smarter. Imo it didnt help coming of the Caley game bcos we had acres of space wi them and very little space last night. Knowing teams will play us that way we should be training for it but lets be honest last night looked like things were mainly off the cuff wheras they knew what they were about. Disappointing and recurs so defo a problem in training/coaching/effective tactics

[J-C]

Quick passing and good movement, something we're not great at, there's only 2-3 players in the squad good enough to do it.

[Thief]

The same way every other team in the league beats them

To be fair to them, they finally seem to have nailed it by modifying it slightly to prevent teams getting in behind.
Not sure other teams will beat them so regularly now.


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[500miles]

The problem was that we played too narrow. We had a winger on one side, and a defender on the other. We'd try to play to Boyle but Bozanic and Hickey would slow him down, letting Dikamona, Halkett and Damour hold shape and find thier man. McGinn couldn't really overlap with Washington still pushing high to support Boyce. Inevitably this meant us having to stop, and either knock the ball back to go long to Doidge - who was now closely marked - or make a big switch to Stevenson, who has never been the best deliverer of a ball, and who was isolated because Omeonga, Allan and Docherty had been pulled over to the right.

This would have been a bit easier if McNulty was showing to take the ball into feet, but he missing, probably hoping/ gambling for the ball to break out.

When Horgan came on, we stretched play better, and Gullan came on and was better at dropping in to those areas that McNulty had abandoned.

There's lessons to be learned, but if Jack Ross is a good manager, we'll come back stronger from it.

[GreenCastle]

Simply stretch opposition.

3 at the back doesn’t allow that.

Hearts copied Livi tactics but just had more energy.

Play 4 at back - stretch it - fast wide players and speed up top.

Don’t have Allan and McNulty doing nothing and a midfield that didn’t compete.

Obviously being good under pressure helps and dribbling / passing part players helps not backwards or side ways on a poor ER surface.

Also as said above - simply stop Boyle and you have a chance - lack of a left sided threat makes it easy for any team.

[h1bs4life]

They flooded the midfield pressuring snapping at Docherty , Allan , Omeonga and Boyle leaving no room for anyone to make space , take a touch. They just ignored the fact Stevenson was on the pitch and left him in acres of space knowing no threat at all.
If the ball was passed back to midfield the out ball was Stevenson and 9/10 you get it back .
Newell or even Horgan wide left might have gave them something to think about and may have altered how they set up.

[JeMeSouviens]

Simply stretch opposition.

3 at the back doesn’t allow that.

Hearts copied Livi tactics but just had more energy.

Play 4 at back - stretch it - fast wide players and speed up top.

Don’t have Allan and McNulty doing nothing and a midfield that didn’t compete.

Obviously being good under pressure helps and dribbling / passing part players helps not backwards or side ways on a poor ER surface.

Also as said above - simply stop Boyle and you have a chance - lack of a left sided threat makes it easy for any team.

To be fair, Omeonga won a lot of tackles last night. 9 times out of ten he then got caught in possession or just gave them the ball back right enough.

We played through their press a couple of times in the first half but far too many players in our team were off it and that seemed to spread to the rest of them. Once they got the fluky pen, our arse just collapsed completely.

[CMurdoch]

This thread is a veritable oasis of sensibility in the pointless sea of anger and downright rubbish that has been spouted on hibs.net since last nights game :aok:

If you give the current Hibs team space like Inverness did they will destroy you.
However, if you you press and man mark like Livingston did you shut them down.
Hearts repeated the Livingston model last night. Only player they couldn't close down was Boyle but they managed to close the strikers down so that he wasn't able to pick them out.

Add Horgan on the other wing and you double the number of players in the team that can beat a man and it will disrupt the closing down and man marking. I'm not a Horgan fan but he is the right guy along with Boyle to help counter such tactics.

Worst affected Hibs player against such tactics is Scott Allan and although a good defender Stevenson is a poor wing back so again reduces the forward threat of the team and it's ability to supply the strikers so for the semi final you need to replace them with Horgan and Newell.
IMO (and lots of you won't agree) Docherty prefers Slivka alongside him rather than Omeonga so that is another possible change.

Obviously it is much easier just to write a couple of angry lines on here saying players are *****/don't care/are soft/not trying/not hard enough etc etc but it's not true, it's simplistic and says more about the mentality of those writing it than about those they are having a go at.

In a nutshell our tactics were disrupted against Livingston and Hearts so Jack Ross will take it on the chin and along with his coaches will have to work out a means of beating it otherwise we will face the same tactic against every team.

It's football, it's professional sport and we will be playing again in 3 days.

Life and football goes on ...........for most of us...............................but we need to win the Semi Final :wink:

[MWHIBBIES]

Sign midfielders who can take the ball and distribute it (like Mcgeouch) and not guys who just run around a lot (Omeonga and Docherty)

[Hibs4185]

They flooded the midfield pressuring snapping at Docherty , Allan , Omeonga and Boyle leaving no room for anyone to make space , take a touch. They just ignored the fact Stevenson was on the pitch and left him in acres of space knowing no threat at all.
If the ball was passed back to midfield the out ball was Stevenson and 9/10 you get it back .
Newell or even Horgan wide left might have gave them something to think about and may have altered how they set up.

Couldn’t agree more. Boyle was our only threat and they had him well marshalled. Lewis was always left In acres of space. Needed Horgan on earlier to stretch their midfield and defence.

[JeMeSouviens]

Couldn’t agree more. Boyle was our only threat and they had him well marshalled. Lewis was always left In acres of space. Needed Horgan on earlier to stretch their midfield and defence.

Clancy could have helped there considering how robust the "marshalling" was in the opening 20 mins.

[lyonhibs]

By pass and move, 1 or 2 touch stuff around it, make triangles etc. Needs a bit of effort and bravery, 2 things in dire short supply last night.

If last night was really cloggers against a team of better footballers, we should have been able to negate their high press through accurate and quick use of the ball, not shinning it away left right and centre, booting it straight up in the air etc (also, and this is just an observation because we could've played on a village green last night and lost) the pitch looked decidedly shoddy in areas which only exacerbated some of the more egregiously terrible passes and first touches we were treated to last night.

[Lancs Harp]

As a few others on this thread have said it about pass and movement but I would add intelligence to that. Defenders need an option or two or they will just panic, lose possession or punt it long. Too often we have (not just last night) a lack of movement, but its not just down to one player to move, often a player needs to move to create a space for another player to move into. We were way too static last night resulting in lack of options for our defenders (who arent greatly comfortable on the ball at the best of times) and our midfirld continually getting caught in possession again because of lack of intelligent movement infront or around them.
As a plan B to that if nothing is on and we have to go long then have some idea of where to go long to and not just hoof it, play into channels where we know runners will be etc.
Played against correctly a high press can benefit the pressed team as invariably there will be space behnd the press.
We've struggled with this for some time, most notoriously for me the first half hur against Aberdeen in Scottish Cup semi final, who pressed and panicked our back four into either getting caught on theball or going long to Jase who was about as competitive as Bambi on Ice with a high a ball. We resolved the situation by giving the defenders a target to aim for when Grant Holt came on, Aberdeen droppped back more and couldnt sustain the press and our midfield came into the game. A game in the end we were very unlucky to lose after not being at the races for half an hour. On a similar theme I was a little concerned last night that the game went on so long without us trying anything significant to change things around. Horgan came on which gacve us more width which will invariably give us more space across the pitch, we looked better but it was far too late.

I presume we had a game plan last night but clearly it didnt work and was dificult to decifer what it actually was. We took too long to respond to the way the match was going. Hearts had their game plan and executed it. They arent world beaters their league osition shows that but they followed their game plan against an undynamic Hibs side and applied themsleves. Thats all it took.

[DetroitHibs]

They left Lewis wide open all game long and used that extra man to there advantage in closing us down. Teams know that Lewis poses no threat going forward and leave him open. We switched the ball numerous times out to him and nothing materialized from it.

[hibeerealist]

They flooded the midfield pressuring snapping at Docherty , Allan , Omeonga and Boyle leaving no room for anyone to make space , take a touch. They just ignored the fact Stevenson was on the pitch and left him in acres of space knowing no threat at all.
If the ball was passed back to midfield the out ball was Stevenson and 9/10 you get it back .
Newell or even Horgan wide left might have gave them something to think about and may have altered how they set up.

Should that not have been obvious to our manager???

[Frazerbob]

What was the ‘high press’ called 5 years ago, before anyone used the term?

[JimBHibees]

What was the ‘high press’ called 5 years ago, before anyone used the term?

Running about like a numpty. :greengrin

The way to beat it is you have players who are good on the ball and pass and move.

[JimBHibees]

Clancy could have helped there considering how robust the "marshalling" was in the opening 20 mins.

Totally ignored one foul early doors when 2 players took him out.

[Danderhall Hibs]

They left Lewis wide open all game long and used that extra man to there advantage in closing us down. Teams know that Lewis poses no threat going forward and leave him open. We switched the ball numerous times out to him and nothing materialized from it.

Any sensible manager would set his team up to exploit this. Teams used to leave McGregor on the ball and match up everywhere else for much the same reason.

[jakedance]

They flooded the midfield pressuring snapping at Docherty , Allan , Omeonga and Boyle leaving no room for anyone to make space , take a touch. They just ignored the fact Stevenson was on the pitch and left him in acres of space knowing no threat at all.
If the ball was passed back to midfield the out ball was Stevenson and 9/10 you get it back .
Newell or even Horgan wide left might have gave them something to think about and may have altered how they set up.

That’s how I saw it. Hearts had everyone over covering Boyle, leaving more space and time down our left. The tactic is to use the full width of the pitch and stretch them but if you don’t have the players for that, which we don’t, then you’re ****ed, which we were.

[rcarter1]

The problem was that we played too narrow. We had a winger on one side, and a defender on the other. We'd try to play to Boyle but Bozanic and Hickey would slow him down, letting Dikamona, Halkett and Damour hold shape and find thier man. McGinn couldn't really overlap with Washington still pushing high to support Boyce. Inevitably this meant us having to stop, and either knock the ball back to go long to Doidge - who was now closely marked - or make a big switch to Stevenson, who has never been the best deliverer of a ball, and who was isolated because Omeonga, Allan and Docherty had been pulled over to the right.

This would have been a bit easier if McNulty was showing to take the ball into feet, but he missing, probably hoping/ gambling for the ball to break out.

When Horgan came on, we stretched play better, and Gullan came on and was better at dropping in to those areas that McNulty had abandoned.

There's lessons to be learned, but if Jack Ross is a good manager, we'll come back stronger from it.

Thats my take. Football can change very quickly if the people involved are able to adapt and learn. We were honking earlier this season, and Rangers were potentially the best team in the league. Motherwell seems to be struggling all of the sudden, and last night demonstrated that Hearts have got themselves organised. Nonetheless they are entirely beatable and full of decent but not spectacular players. Rather it happened last night then in the Semi Final. Regardless of what happens following the semi, getting to a Final would be a big deal in terms of excitement and income. Lets hope we have a plan and the players are absolutely raring to go for it.

[I'm_cabbaged]

Ask every manager that played against us under Heckingbottom. They seemed to suss the high press out.....

[Geo_1875]

Pass and move. Last night we couldn't pass and didn't move.

[Frazerbob]

Pass and move. Last night we couldn't pass and didn't move.

It’s long been accepted that in a Derby you need to win the battle first, earn the right to play. We lost the battle all night. That’s why we lost.

[Sammy7nil]

Hearts game plan last night was very effective and we struggled big time with their hunting in packs and giving us no time on the ball. It reminded me a bit of the high press adopted by the Rangers at Home which we struggled with as well.
Since Jack came in we have a fairly settled team with players who all have a reasonable first touch, and collectively, we seem to have been working on our movement off the ball and offering options to the player in possession. Forgetting actual defending for a minute, our defence also seem to have been working on retaining possession and often side stepping the initial tackle, to buy a few seconds, before finding a midfielder or passing out wide and I’ve been quite impressed with our progress with that. Obviously our defending in general is work in progress and other posters have covered that in great detail.

Most things seem to me to have improved under the new manager but last night, we were woeful and I just wondered what other folks opinions are as to how to deal with the high press.
I don’t watch much other football, but as much as there seems to be a number of teams who adopt this style of play, then there must be a reasonable counter to it. Or is there?


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No every team who play a high press win every game.

[I_Love_Latapy]

The same way every other team in the league beats them

Not sure they have been playing as well as they have in the last 2 games.

[stuart-farquhar]

What was the ‘high press’ called 5 years ago, before anyone used the term?

Chasing the ball. Been around since football was invented. Not really a tactic. Just running about chasing the ball.

[Perd Hapley]

The problem was that we played too narrow. We had a winger on one side, and a defender on the other. We'd try to play to Boyle but Bozanic and Hickey would slow him down, letting Dikamona, Halkett and Damour hold shape and find thier man. McGinn couldn't really overlap with Washington still pushing high to support Boyce. Inevitably this meant us having to stop, and either knock the ball back to go long to Doidge - who was now closely marked - or make a big switch to Stevenson, who has never been the best deliverer of a ball, and who was isolated because Omeonga, Allan and Docherty had been pulled over to the right.

This would have been a bit easier if McNulty was showing to take the ball into feet, but he missing, probably hoping/ gambling for the ball to break out.

When Horgan came on, we stretched play better, and Gullan came on and was better at dropping in to those areas that McNulty had abandoned.

There's lessons to be learned, but if Jack Ross is a good manager, we'll come back stronger from it.

Totally agreed - on a more general point the way to counter a high press is to make them run for it and that requires using the space - they were set up very narrow themselves but I was maddened at how compact we were at goal kicks etc. It seems to me Jack sent them out to create triangles and pass it round them but he failed to account for the constant pressure - they may be a totally disjointed team but even those players are capable of understanding and executing the instruction to run fast and tackle hard all the time - given several months of repeated failure to learn from of course. I refuse to believe that a tactically astute manager like Ross didn't foresee the counterpress and work it into his gameplan given that they did the same thing to great effect against Rangers on saturday along with the fact Stendel has been dressing up as Klopp in front of the mirror at home and droning on about gegenpressing since about six weeks before he got the job. Agree with other posters about Stevenson - I love you Lewy and I think you have many games to play for us yet but if you ever were a wingback you're not anymore.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It’s long been accepted that in a Derby you need to win the battle first, earn the right to play. We lost the battle all night. That’s why we lost.

Defending from the front?

[Waxy]

Fight fire with fire.

[ancient hibee]

This thread is a veritable oasis of sensibility in the pointless sea of anger and downright rubbish that has been spouted on hibs.net since last nights game :aok:

If you give the current Hibs team space like Inverness did they will destroy you.
However, if you you press and man mark like Livingston did you shut them down.
Hearts repeated the Livingston model last night. Only player they couldn't close down was Boyle but they managed to close the strikers down so that he wasn't able to pick them out.

Add Horgan on the other wing and you double the number of players in the team that can beat a man and it will disrupt the closing down and man marking. I'm not a Horgan fan but he is the right guy along with Boyle to help counter such tactics.

Worst affected Hibs player against such tactics is Scott Allan and although a good defender Stevenson is a poor wing back so again reduces the forward threat of the team and it's ability to supply the strikers so for the semi final you need to replace them with Horgan and Newell.
IMO (and lots of you won't agree) Docherty prefers Slivka alongside him rather than Omeonga so that is another possible change.

Obviously it is much easier just to write a couple of angry lines on here saying players are *****/don't care/are soft/not trying/not hard enough etc etc but it's not true, it's simplistic and says more about the mentality of those writing it than about those they are having a go at.

In a nutshell our tactics were disrupted against Livingston and Hearts so Jack Ross will take it on the chin and along with his coaches will have to work out a means of beating it otherwise we will face the same tactic against every team.

It's football, it's professional sport and we will be playing again in 3 days.

Life and football goes on ...........for most of us...............................but we need to win the Semi Final :wink:
When two or three close down a player the obvious question is where are our spare players who are not being closed down.If you have three players who can control a ball and work together as a unit the other team does not have enough players to mob hand them.We did not have a unit.I would think Allan is used to being double marked in most games and we should take advantage of that by using him as a decoy.We did not do that.Actually we should have won the game early.Doidge should have scored with his header from Boyle’s cross and both Doidge and McNulty were very poor in not turning his next low ball into the net.Boyle had Hickey on toast early on and we should have poured down that wing.Score the two goals and game was over.Their three goals were presents.

[Keith_M]

Let's not fall for the hype. It's just playing like lots of teams do, closing down the opposition effectively.

Hibs have struggled all season against any team that did the same, Livi and The Rangers being perfect examples.

We are still very lightweight and can't cope with more physical teams. This has to change, or we'll never achieve anything.

[J-C]

Chasing the ball. Been around since football was invented. Not really a tactic. Just running about chasing the ball.

Nor really that simple, Barca perfected it under Pep, they hunted in packs and in their training drills they had around 5-6secs to get the ball back. You need very fit players to do it right, I've not seen us do it once this season, now and then Boyle or Doidge closes down but not often enough, we give our opponents so much time on the ball it's scary.

[SquashedFrogg]

Chasing the ball. Been around since football was invented. Not really a tactic. Just running about chasing the ball.

This 100%

Similarly Barcelona never invented short passing. Contrary to popular belief.

[Frankhfc]

When two or three close down a player the obvious question is where are our spare players who are not being closed down.If you have three players who can control a ball and work together as a unit the other team does not have enough players to mob hand them.We did not have a unit.I would think Allan is used to being double marked in most games and we should take advantage of that by using him as a decoy.We did not do that.Actually we should have won the game early.Doidge should have scored with his header from Boyle’s cross and both Doidge and McNulty were very poor in not turning his next low ball into the net.Boyle had Hickey on toast early on and we should have poured down that wing.Score the two goals and game was over.Their three goals were presents.

Exactly.

Their goals were gifts particularly their first the penalty. Boyler had the young lad Hickey beat all ends up most times. If our passing had been crisper with more tactical awareness it would have been a different game altogether. Our passing and crossing save Boyler's was piss poor and its something that will have to be much improved for the semi.

[biscuitersed75]

Suspect we'll learn some lessons from Motherwell on Saturday. Pretty sure they'll have it sussed and will pick them off as others have managed with ease.

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[NAE NOOKIE]

Its all pretty well been covered on this thread. Hearts managed to turn Tuesday into a midfield battle forcing Hibs into hurried passes and sometimes daft decisions on the ball ... It created piles of 50/50 situations in the middle of the park which were meat and drink to their more physical players. It also lead to Hibs lumping the ball up the middle which is never a tactic we particularly profit from.

As has also been pointed out, it was as clear as day that if there was one risk? Hearts were prepared to take it was to leave Stevenson out of the equation safe in the knowledge that him being an out ball wasn't going to damage them and freeing up players to concentrate on more dangerous and creative targets .... it didn't take any spying trips to work that one out, most teams in this league have been doing it for years, I've pointed it out bloody dozens of times in post match rants.

Perhaps it is time to be brave and play both Horgan and Boyle in order to give them more to think about at Hampden .... Horgan is horribly hit or miss and isn't the best at covering his defensive duties, but when he does have a good game he is a handful and that will surely leave more room in midfield for the likes of Allan and Docherty with Boyle and Horgan hugging the wings .... its a lot tougher to stifle the middle of the park when the opposition have a threat on both wings.

One thing I did notice on Tuesday was that more than once we had a bit of success with long diagonal balls to Boyle .... Hanlon and Jackson are both capable of playing passes like that and I wouldn't be averse to seeing Hibs give it a go for a bit to see how it works, especially with targets on the left and right .... when we had SJM at the club we used that tactic a few times with reasonable success, mind you he could hit some super diagonal passes.

Oh and of course the main thing. Just play a hell of a lot better, because far too many of our lot were below par on Tuesday and it wasn't all down to high presses or anything else, they just weren't at it. The jury is out as to whether Hearts are capable of another performance like Tuesday .... there's little doubt we are capable of a lot better.

[I'm Spartacus]

Its all pretty well been covered on this thread. Hearts managed to turn Tuesday into a midfield battle forcing Hibs into hurried passes and sometimes daft decisions on the ball ... It created piles of 50/50 situations in the middle of the park which were meat and drink to their more physical players. It also lead to Hibs lumping the ball up the middle which is never a tactic we particularly profit from.

As has also been pointed out, it was as clear as day that if there was one risk? Hearts were prepared to take it was to leave Stevenson out of the equation safe in the knowledge that him being an out ball wasn't going to damage them and freeing up players to concentrate on more dangerous and creative targets .... it didn't take any spying trips to work that one out, most teams in this league have been doing it for years, I've pointed it out bloody dozens of times in post match rants.

Perhaps it is time to be brave and play both Horgan and Boyle in order to give them more to think about at Hampden .... Horgan is horribly hit or miss and isn't the best at covering his defensive duties, but when he does have a good game he is a handful and that will surely leave more room in midfield for the likes of Allan and Docherty with Boyle and Horgan hugging the wings .... its a lot tougher to stifle the middle of the park when the opposition have a threat on both wings.

One thing I did notice on Tuesday was that more than once we had a bit of success with long diagonal balls to Boyle .... Hanlon and Jackson are both capable of playing passes like that and I wouldn't be averse to seeing Hibs give it a go for a bit to see how it works, especially with targets on the left and right .... when we had SJM at the club we used that tactic a few times with reasonable success, mind you he could hit some super diagonal passes.

Oh and of course the main thing. Just play a hell of a lot better, because far too many of our lot were below par on Tuesday and it wasn't all down to high presses or anything else, they just weren't at it. The jury is out as to whether Hearts are capable of another performance like Tuesday .... there's little doubt we are capable of a lot better.


You're potentially the best poster on this forum.

[Tommy75]

Well there is surely enough evidence for Ross to look at now when preparing for the semi-final given most teams have figured out how to beat Hearts.

[Andy74]

Well there is surely enough evidence for Ross to look at now when preparing for the semi-final given most teams have figured out how to beat Hearts.

Most teams don’t face Hearts playing the way they do against us. That’s just the way it is. We have to cope better when they raise their effort and their game but you can’t read into it that other teams like St Mirren are better tactically than we are. They are facing a totally different type of Hearts performance.

[gaz1875]

Most teams don’t face Hearts playing the way they do against us. That’s just the way it is. We have to cope better when they raise their effort and their game but you can’t read into it that other teams like St Mirren are better tactically than we are. They are facing a totally different type of Hearts performance.

They play better against us due to our tactics, they are terrible and the league table proves that.

[southern hibby]

That’s how I saw it. Hearts had everyone over covering Boyle, leaving more space and time down our left. The tactic is to use the full width of the pitch and stretch them but if you don’t have the players for that, which we don’t, then you’re ****ed, which we were.


Said it two or three times this season, Why not give Boyle a free role to move between Right, Left and through the middle? If a team sticks a player on him then this will ask questions as in, does that player follow Boyle? Or does other players pick him up? Force teams to make a choices and maybe even mistakes.

Also we all know Lewis isn’t a wing back yet numerous times this season he has no real out ball unless he passes into the middle. McGinn has Boyle, so if Boyle moved over to the left against Hearts that would have confused Hearts and maybe thrown their game plan to f ck.


GGTTH

[J-C]

Said it two or three times this season, Why not give Boyle a free role to move between Right, Left and through the middle? If a team sticks a player on him then this will ask questions as in, does that player follow Boyle? Or does other players pick him up? Force teams to make a choices and maybe even mistakes.

Also we all know Lewis isn’t a wing back yet numerous times this season he has no real out ball unless he passes into the middle. McGinn has Boyle, so if Boyle moved over to the left against Hearts that would have confused Hearts and maybe thrown their game plan to f ck.


GGTTH


When Lennon had that successful spell when we pushed for 2nd, Stevenson had McGinn on the left, at the moment there is no one on the left for an out ball, everytime Stevenson gets the ball he looks up, sees no one and then turns back inside where all the midfielders are.

[Smartie]

When Lennon had that successful spell when we pushed for 2nd, Stevenson had McGinn on the left, at the moment there is no one on the left for an out ball, everytime Stevenson gets the ball he looks up, sees no one and then turns back inside where all the midfielders are.

It’s funny how you get a different perspective of a game depending on where you sit.

At ER I’m normally up the gods where the game looks easy.

Once or twice at away games I’ve been down at pitch level, next to Lewis Stevenson. It’s funny how often he’ll have taken a good touch, be in control and have absolutely nobody to give the ball to (hence the cut back the way). We are very easily crowded out of games this way by the likes of Hearts and Livi.

During our good 2nd half to the season there would be the likes of McGinn who could take it inside under pressure, but also Kamberi working hard further up the pitch.

Lewis bugs me when he fails to attempt to drive with the ball when occasionally it is on but there’s often just something not right about our play when our FB/ WB is in possession.

Basically, I totally agree with the point you made.

[J-C]

It’s funny how you get a different perspective of a game depending on where you sit.

At ER I’m normally up the gods where the game looks easy.

Once or twice at away games I’ve been down at pitch level, next to Lewis Stevenson. It’s funny how often he’ll have taken a good touch, be in control and have absolutely nobody to give the ball to (hence the cut back the way). We are very easily crowded out of games this way by the likes of Hearts and Livi.

During our good 2nd half to the season there would be the likes of McGinn who could take it inside under pressure, but also Kamberi working hard further up the pitch.

Lewis bugs me when he fails to attempt to drive with the ball when occasionally it is on but there’s often just something not right about our play when our FB/ WB is in possession.

Basically, I totally agree with the point you made.

Another thing to consider is Lewis is not a naturally attacking player, he came into the Hibs side as a defensive left midfielder and in the 2007 final he allowed Murphy to bomb forward because of his natural defensive mindedness, hence why he makes a very good LB and not an attacking WB. I think Lewis would work well in a back 4 with Newell in front of him.

[DTS]

If we play boyle down the middle against them at hampden we win it’s that simple, their centre half’s are slow as a week in jail, make their centre backs turn and you win the game, every team in the country had managed it other than us and rangers. Don’t punt it up for a challenge get it into midfield and then look to turn them, if the press is good then the centre backs need to play smarter and play to channels not directly to the play. They’re shocking at the back but do have decent players going forward and they seem to be the epitome of confidence players. Boyle through the middle is key for me

[Carheenlea]

It’s long been accepted that in a Derby you need to win the battle first, earn the right to play. We lost the battle all night. That’s why we lost.

This morning I was listening to the podcast of last nights nights sportsound, and what was telling in Jim Goodwin’s interview was how St Mirren won most of their 50/50’s, and burst a gut to win those and threw bodies on the line defensively to restrict Hearts to a couple of shots.

This is precisely what we lacked in last weeks derby all over the pitch, and that’s pretty inexcusable. You don’t have to be a good side to beat Hearts, but you won’t beat them without some determination and fight to win your individual battles first, with or without any “”high press”.

[Steven79]

This morning I was listening to the podcast of last nights nights sportsound, and what was telling in Jim Goodwin’s interview was how St Mirren won most of their 50/50’s, and burst a gut to win those and threw bodies on the line defensively to restrict Hearts to a couple of shots.

This is precisely what we lacked in last weeks derby all over the pitch, and that’s pretty inexcusable. You don’t have to be a good side to beat Hearts, but you won’t beat them without some determination and fight to win your individual battles first, with or without any “”high press”.We believed that it was just a case of turning up while they wanted it more.

If they were playing us or Rangers every week then they would win the league...

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