The mentality of our club

[Chuck Rhoades]

Bottle merchants to a man vs. that lot. Most one sided derby in world football. McGinn, Omeonga and McNulty looked beyond nervous. The support were even worse - flat from the off. Cannot stand why we roll over to these ****s.

[Waxy]

Last two games at tynecastle say different.

[Barman Stanton]

Bottle merchants to a man vs. that lot. Most one sided derby in world football. McGinn, Omeonga and McNulty looked beyond nervous. The support were even worse - flat from the off. Cannot stand why we roll over to these ****s.

And yet over the last few years the results have been pretty much completely even. Never see these threads when we beat them.

The whole team had an off day. Its unfortunate, but it happens.

[Chuck Rhoades]

And yet over the last few years the results have been pretty much completely even. Never see these threads when we beat them.

The whole team had an off day. Its unfortunate, but it happens.

When have we ever lost 3 goals at ER to them? The thread is warranted. The fact people think last night was an acceptable off day is utterly ridiculous.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The mentality of a lot of our support concerns me.

[JammyDoidger]

We need to stop thinking we are the Scottish Barcelona and find the right mix. We had it mastered with lennon and to an extent stubbs. To win games like that you need a Marvin Bartley, a Darren Mcgregor a spine! That team has no backbone it's literally just a shoddy defence with a few Mavericks, which will get you by in games against the tripe of the Scottish leagues. But not in a derby. Forget big screens. Get the money spend and take a hit in the pocket to give us fans what we deserve. Absoloutely sick of rolling over to them! Do you think celtic would allow rangers to do that, or any other derby in the world? Every time we have a chance to laugh at them And kick them when they are down we let them get back up.

[Since452]

Been a long time since I've been this angry at my team. It's not even turned to dissapoitment yet. Still livid. I hope to **** the manager is the same

[Steve-O]

When have we ever lost 3 goals at ER to them? The thread is warranted. The fact people think last night was an acceptable off day is utterly ridiculous.

We’ve lost 3+ at home to them many times. Much more than we’ve scored 3+ at Tynecastle, or even ER for that matter.

[Barman Stanton]

When have we ever lost 3 goals at ER to them? The thread is warranted. The fact people think last night was an acceptable off day is utterly ridiculous.

I started going in the 80s mate. Iv seen that plenty. What do you want? Blood?

[Smartie]

We need to stop thinking we are the Scottish Barcelona and find the right mix. We had it mastered with lennon and to an extent stubbs. To win games like that you need a Marvin Bartley, a Darren Mcgregor a spine! That team has no backbone it's literally just a shoddy defence with a few Mavericks, which will get you by in games against the tripe of the Scottish leagues. But not in a derby. Forget big screens. Get the money spend and take a hit in the pocket to give us fans what we deserve. Absoloutely sick of rolling over to them! Do you think celtic would allow rangers to do that, or any other derby in the world? Every time we have a chance to laugh at them And kick them when they are down we let them get back up.

I wondered if there was any significance in the performance level of our loan players?

Docherty and Omeonga were dominated in midfield and McNulty did nothing.

Fenlon’s loan signings were good against the wee teams but found wanting in the big game with Hearts.

Maybe it’s not a game for players with no background in the fixture who won’t be here beyond the summer?

[mcohibs]

I wondered if there was any significance in the performance level of our loan players?

Docherty and Omeonga were dominated in midfield and McNulty did nothing.

Fenlon’s loan signings were good against the wee teams but found wanting in the big game with Hearts.

Maybe it’s not a game for players with no background in the fixture who won’t be here beyond the summer?

Omeonga and McNulty have played in derbies before - this wasn't new to them.

Our two most experienced players in derbies Hanlon and Stevenson were two of the worst performers last night. Its nothing to do with loan signings.

[JammyDoidger]

I wondered if there was any significance in the performance level of our loan players?

Docherty and Omeonga were dominated in midfield and McNulty did nothing.

Fenlon’s loan signings were good against the wee teams but found wanting in the big game with Hearts.

Maybe it’s not a game for players with no background in the fixture who won’t be here beyond the summer?

I'm not too sure, The attitude of Docherty and Omeonga for example has been fantastic, its more the fact that we look to recruit footballers which is a good thing, but we need to recruit tougher defenders and a nasty no nonsense Defensive midfielder in order to win the battle to let these creative players play. Can't have passengers in a derby match. That's just the way it is, but like you say, we will get away with it in certain games where we have all the ball and teams sit off us.

[Chuck Rhoades]

We’ve lost 3+ at home to them many times. Much more than we’ve scored 3+ at Tynecastle, or even ER for that matter.

I don’t think I said we hadn’t? The recent 4-0 and 5-1 at Hampden should have been enough for us to be rock bottom. To then not turn up, ***** ourselves and concede three goals against that Hearts team is criminal. Every one of them, from players and support, wanted it more than us.

[Captain Trips]

Never have and never will buy into this frankly bollox we have some sort of mentality issue for games against Hearts. I have read pish like that for years yet we have had different players, managers and now owners yet for some reason Hibs manage to acquire players who cant handle derbies but Hearts can?

So how come we didn't seem to have this issue at Tynecastle? Why do we need to look deeper into than key players happened to be pish last night? Hearts are not that good but we made it easy for them and in fact any team who played us last night would have won. We were so poor it only required a team to be able to string some passes together.

[James Stephen]

When have we ever lost 3 goals at ER to them? The thread is warranted. The fact people think last night was an acceptable off day is utterly ridiculous.

Lots of times.

[Captain Trips]

I don’t think I said we hadn’t? The recent 4-0 and 5-1 at Hampden should have been enough for us to be rock bottom. To then not turn up, ***** ourselves and concede three goals against that Hearts team is criminal. Every one of them, from players and support, wanted it more than us.

Every one of our players wanted it more than them at Tynecastle then and our fans as well.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Bottle merchants to a man vs. that lot. Most one sided derby in world football. McGinn, Omeonga and McNulty looked beyond nervous. The support were even worse - flat from the off. Cannot stand why we roll over to these ****s.

I think I’m right in saying that Motherwell, Dundee United, Inverness and Kilmarnock all have better derby records than Hearts. So this most one sided derby in world football isn’t even close.

[Chuck Rhoades]

I think I’m right in saying that Motherwell, Dundee United, Inverness and Kilmarnock all have better derby records than Hearts. So this most one sided derby in world football isn’t even close.

Incorrect.

[-Jonesy-]

I don’t think I said we hadn’t? The recent 4-0 and 5-1 at Hampden should have been enough for us to be rock bottom. To then not turn up, ***** ourselves and concede three goals against that Hearts team is criminal. Every one of them, from players and support, wanted it more than us.

14 years ago is recent???

[HibeeHibernian4]

Incorrect.

I’ve seen it posted on social media before. I’ll try to find it.

[mcohibs]

Bottle merchants to a man vs. that lot. Most one sided derby in world football. McGinn, Omeonga and McNulty looked beyond nervous. The support were even worse - flat from the off. Cannot stand why we roll over to these ****s.

Hearts patter. Get a grip

[James Stephen]

Incorrect.

Its a ridiculous claim that doesnt stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

[Carheenlea]

Fans get frustrated with defeats, but even more so in derby matches. Always harder to take. You hear a lot saying they can be accepted if we’ve played well or competed, but truthfully even those are not accepted.

We loved the last one at Tynecastle when we won by a two goal margin but we crashed back to earth quickly with a defeat at Livingston in an even worse performance than last nights, so if we can get a good result at Aberdeen we’ll soon forget about last nights horror show. Personally not going to over analyse each individual performer - the same players and manager have contributed to getting us into a reasonable position in league and a Hampden Scottish cup semi date, so will put it down to a bad night at the office. You can carry a couple of under performing players but we had far too many in that second half against to survive against anyone in the league.

By the time the semi comes around hopefully we’ll be eating to go again in the back of better form.

[Captain Trips]

I am waiting to understand if we have a team of bottle merchants how did these bottlers beat them at Tynecastle?

[Chuck Rhoades]

14 years ago is recent???

In our 145 years, aye I would say so.

[Captain Trips]

Fans get frustrated with defeats, but even more so in derby matches. Always harder to take. You hear a lot saying they can be accepted if we’ve played well or competed, but truthfully even those are not accepted.

We loved the last one at Tynecastle when we won by a two goal margin but we crashed back to earth quickly with a defeat at Livingston in an even worse performance than last nights, so if we can get a good result at Aberdeen we’ll soon forget about last nights horror show. Personally not going to over analyse each individual performer - the same players and manager have contributed to getting us into a reasonable position in league and a Hampden Scottish cup semi date, so will put it down to a bad night at the office. You can carry a couple of under performing players but we had far too many in that second half against to survive against anyone in the league.

By the time the semi comes around hopefully we’ll be eating to go again in the back of better form.

This, angry and pissed at the players but bottom line is we just played really badly and got punished like other teams have also done to us over years. Get on with next few games and if players play to ability we will beat Herts.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Hearts patter. Get a grip

142 wins vs. 86. That’s a fact not patter. Nearly double, a disgrace.

[JammyDoidger]

I am waiting to understand if we have a team of bottle merchants how did these bottlers beat them at Tynecastle?

Because we played a diamond and went in to win the battle first, just need to look at the two goals we scored there to see that. We turned up with a stuck up attitude last night thinking we could just sweep them away the same as we did Inverness, hearts scrapped and made life difficult for the players and they didn't like it. Bunch of posers. Need a rocket the lot of them. Captain Hanlon needs a wee seat on the bench, should never wear the armband again. Shouldn't have in the first place nothing about him says captain! Embarrasing performance!

[calumhibee1]

142 wins vs. 86. That’s a fact not patter. Nearly double, a disgrace.

And most one sided derby in world football as you suggested is an absolute mile away from a fact.

[Steve20]

Bottle merchants to a man vs. that lot. Most one sided derby in world football. McGinn, Omeonga and McNulty looked beyond nervous. The support were even worse - flat from the off. Cannot stand why we roll over to these ****s.

The support were even worse??? What nonsense. The support was nowhere near as bad as that pathetic, gutless and shameful performance every Hibs player put in last night.

[emerald green]

There is something missing/weak about the mentality at HFC, and it's not just in matches against our local rivals, where our record over the years is not very good to put it mildly.

How often have Hibs thrown away points to teams they really should have beaten, and ended up drawing or losing? Chucking away two goal leads at home against absolute dross. Just look at some of these results this very season ffs!

Hibs teams it seems to me are frequently too "nice", too soft, and not as streetwise as many other clubs, like Hearts for example. Why this is the case I simply do not know.

It's way past time HFC, as a club, started to get tough, get real, and ditch all this "Hibs class" nonsense.

[mcohibs]

142 wins vs. 86. That’s a fact not patter. Nearly double, a disgrace.

Aye and if we'd won 6-0 last night that's still a big difference in records. But you wouldn't have started this thread if we'd won would you?

Defeat in a derby and some revert back to 'world's worst derby record' etc. Its a totally defeatist, tinpot attitude to have as a supporter of a football team and its attitudes of supporters like you that are the problem.

How can you blame the current Hibs team for a derby record over the past century and a half? Honestly. Have a think.

[Chuck Rhoades]

And most one sided derby in world football as you suggested is an absolute mile away from a fact.

Mile away from what? Show me a derby in the world with ~350 matches and one side having a 60% better success rate.

[Captain Trips]

Because we played a diamond and went in to win the battle first, just need to look at the two goals we scored there to see that. We turned up with a stuck up attitude last night thinking we could just sweep them away the same as we did Inverness, hearts scrapped and made life difficult for the players and they didn't like it. Bunch of posers. Need a rocket the lot of them. Captain Hanlon needs a wee seat on the bench, should never wear the armband again. Shouldn't have in the first place nothing about him says captain! Embarrasing performance!

"Because we played a diamond and went in to win the battle first, just need to look at the two goals we scored there to see that" So we dont have a bottling issue or mentality we had an off night tactically and performance wise like they did at Tynecastle.

[Chuck Rhoades]

There is something missing/weak about the mentality at HFC, and it's not just in matches against our local rivals, where our record over the years is not very good to put it mildly.

How often have Hibs thrown away points to teams they really should have beaten, and ended up drawing or losing? Chucking away two goal leads at home against absolute dross. Just look at some of these results this very season ffs!

Hibs teams it seems to me are frequently too "nice", too soft, and not as streetwise as many other clubs, like Hearts for example. Why this is the case I simply do not know.

It's way past time HFC, as a club, started to get tough, get real, and ditch all this "Hibs class" nonsense.

Spot on. Under Lennon we shifted that niceness, but it’s returned in abundance under his successors.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Aye and if we'd won 6-0 last night that's still a big difference in records. But you wouldn't have started this thread if we'd won would you?

Defeat in a derby and some revert back to 'world's worst derby record' etc. Its a totally defeatist, tinpot attitude to have as a supporter of a football team and its attitudes of supporters like you that are the problem.

How can you blame the current Hibs team for a derby record over the past century and a half? Honestly. Have a think.

Where did I blame the current team? Read the thread title.

[Captain Trips]

Mile away from what? Show me a derby in the world with ~350 matches and one side having a 60% better success rate.

So? what significance do matches from 20s,30s,40s,50s,60s,70s,80s,90s,00s have on a game last night.

[Waxy]

Mile away from what? Show me a derby in the world with ~350 matches and one side having a 60% better success rate.

Os this a real contest?
Is it first to 1000 wins or the like?

[James Stephen]

Mile away from what? Show me a derby in the world with ~350 matches and one side having a 60% better success rate.

You are the one making the claim, so its up to you to back it up with evidence, not for others to disprove your nonsense.

[Barman Stanton]

There is something missing/weak about the mentality at HFC, and it's not just in matches against our local rivals, where our record over the years is not very good to put it mildly.

How often have Hibs thrown away points to teams they really should have beaten, and ended up drawing or losing? Chucking away two goal leads at home against absolute dross. Just look at some of these results this very season ffs!

Hibs teams it seems to me are frequently too "nice", too soft, and not as streetwise as many other clubs, like Hearts for example. Why this is the case I simply do not know.

It's way past time HFC, as a club, started to get tough, get real, and ditch all this "Hibs class" nonsense.

I dont buy it. Were we too nice when won the last derby? Was McNulty being too nice when he stamped on the player? We just had an absolute shocker. Its unfortunate but we have no given right to win every game.

[emerald green]

Aye and if we'd won 6-0 last night that's still a big difference in records. But you wouldn't have started this thread if we'd won would you?

Defeat in a derby and some revert back to 'world's worst derby record' etc. Its a totally defeatist, tinpot attitude to have as a supporter of a football team and its attitudes of supporters like you that are the problem.

How can you blame the current Hibs team for a derby record over the past century and a half? Honestly. Have a think.

But this isn't simply about one terrible performance and defeat, at home, to our biggest rivals. It's about the overall mentality that exists, and has existed, for years at Easter Road. See my earlier post.

[mcohibs]

Where did I blame the current team? Read the thread title.

Because the current team IS Hibs!! Different owner, manager, players to years gone past - how do previous results in decades past have any baring at all on the outcome of last night's game?

The only thing that remains consistent about our club is the supporters and it is supporters who choose to carry this attitude of us being inferior to Hearts like yourself. It is defeatist nonsense and unfortunately all too rife within our support.

[HibeeHibernian4]

And most one sided derby in world football as you suggested is an absolute mile away from a fact.

Can’t find what I’m looking for so I’ll crunch the numbers myself.

Motherwell against Hamilton: P152 W75 D34 L43 - 49.34% win rate
Dundee United against Dundee: P171 W80 D42 L49 - 46.78% win rate
Hearts against Hibs: P324 W142 D96 L86 - 43.82% win rate
Inverness against Ross County: P61 W26 D18 L17 - 42.62% win rate

Celtic’s recent dominance over Rangers post 2012 means that Rangers’ win rate is down to about 38%, but I reckon if I could be bothered to work it out they were definitely above that 43% tally previously too.

Anyway, so not even the most one-sided derby in Scotland let alone European or world football. It’s Hearts pish that you’ve swallowed whole.

[emerald green]

I dont buy it. Were we too nice when won the last derby? Was McNulty being too nice when he stamped on the player? We just had an absolute shocker. Its unfortunate but we have no given right to win every game.

It's not just about last night's shocker though. It's about the overall mentality at our club. Re-read my post for the bits you overlooked.

McNulty was lucky not to have been sent off. It was like he was trying to get sent off. How weak is that? There was no need for it from McNulty. A "streetwise" player would never have been so reckless as that.

[Peevemor]

But this isn't simply about one terrible performance and defeat, at home, to our biggest rivals. It's about the overall mentality that exists, and has existed, for years at Easter Road. See my earlier post.

So are you just ignoring derbies & matches against the OF that we've won at ER recently?

We have a manager that hasn't had a close season a transfer window to assemble his own squad.

We have a new owner who appears to be willing to speculate a bit and try to move the club up a level.

Are we not over analysing what was one *****y performance at the end of a pretty decent run?

[mcohibs]

But this isn't simply about one terrible performance and defeat, at home, to our biggest rivals. It's about the overall mentality that exists, and has existed, for years at Easter Road. See my earlier post.


You're spreading that mentality with an attitude like that! How is that so difficult for people to understand? The only people who would carry this 'mentality' are the supporters. Because staff have been and gone. Fantasy stuff to suggest otherwise.

[Captain Trips]

You're spreading that mentality with an attitude like that! How is that so difficult for people to understand? The only people who would carry this 'mentality' are the supporters. Because staff have been and gone. Fantasy stuff to suggest otherwise.

Correct or we are the unluckiest club on earth signing players over years who have a mentality issue V Hearts yet they sign players who don't have such issues, really really bad luck on our part.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Can’t find what I’m looking for so I’ll crunch the numbers myself.

Motherwell against Hamilton: P152 W75 D34 L43 - 49.34% win rate
Dundee United against Dundee: P171 W80 D42 L49 - 46.78% win rate
Hearts against Hibs: P324 W142 D96 L86 - 43.82% win rate
Inverness against Ross County: P61 W26 D18 L17 - 42.62% win rate

Celtic’s recent dominance over Rangers post 2012 means that Rangers’ win rate is down to about 38%, but I reckon if I could be bothered to work it out they were definitely above that 43% tally previously too.

Anyway, so not even the most one-sided derby in Scotland let alone European or world football. It’s Hearts pish that you’ve swallowed whole.

jeezo, didn’t realise Dundee had such a crap record against united

[Barman Stanton]

It's not just about last night's shocker though. It's about the overall mentality at our club. Re-read my post for the bits you overlooked.

McNulty was lucky not to have been sent off. It was like he was trying to get sent off. How weak is that? There was no need for it from McNulty. A "streetwise" player would never have been so reckless as that.

Iv read your post. I disagree. So if we have such a weak mentality how do you explain us winning at Tynecastle just months ago? Or knocking them out the cup on the way to winning it?

Is it not just possible that we are an inconsistent team who played well the last derby but terrible last night?

[G B Young]

I don’t think I said we hadn’t? The recent 4-0 and 5-1 at Hampden should have been enough for us to be rock bottom. To then not turn up, ***** ourselves and concede three goals against that Hearts team is criminal. Every one of them, from players and support, wanted it more than us.

We've played them four times in the Scottish Cup since 5-1 and knocked them out three times. If you're talking 'recent' then you'll find our record in the derby is about 50/50.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Correct or we are the unluckiest club on earth signing players over years who have a mentality issue V Hearts yet they sign players who don't have such issues, really really bad luck on our part.

there have long been tales and rumours of how hearts staff drill into new signings the absolute necessity of not losing to Hibs at all costs.

i don’t know whether it’s true but something’s amiss with our Derby record.

[Begbie79]

there have long been tales and rumours of how hearts staff drill into new signings the absolute necessity of not losing to Hibs at all costs.

i don’t know whether it’s true but something’s amiss with our Derby record.

If any football player needs it drilled into them the importance of winning ANY football match never mind a derby they are in the wrong job......

[calumhibee1]

Can’t find what I’m looking for so I’ll crunch the numbers myself.

Motherwell against Hamilton: P152 W75 D34 L43 - 49.34% win rate
Dundee United against Dundee: P171 W80 D42 L49 - 46.78% win rate
Hearts against Hibs: P324 W142 D96 L86 - 43.82% win rate
Inverness against Ross County: P61 W26 D18 L17 - 42.62% win rate

Celtic’s recent dominance over Rangers post 2012 means that Rangers’ win rate is down to about 38%, but I reckon if I could be bothered to work it out they were definitely above that 43% tally previously too.

Anyway, so not even the most one-sided derby in Scotland let alone European or world football. It’s Hearts pish that you’ve swallowed whole.

Thank you, Sir. :aok:

[mcohibs]

Correct or we are the unluckiest club on earth signing players over years who have a mentality issue V Hearts yet they sign players who don't have such issues, really really bad luck on our part.

Its the fans who carry this mentality of being inferior to hearts. Blows my mind how people can't understand that. When we get beat in a derby we blame a mentality at the club as if there's some sort of omnipresent curse over Easter road that's been there for decades. It's the supporters! Players and managers come and go, how can it be them? People need to stop buying into this hearts patter mentality of us being inferior, it's an absolute nonsense. Derby records from decades past have no effect on the outcome of football matches in 2020. We're soft as a support to be honest and it shows most after a derby defeat.

[calumhibee1]

Mile away from what? Show me a derby in the world with ~350 matches and one side having a 60% better success rate.

So it’s now the worst derby in world football, but only including derbies that have roughly the same amount of fixtures played as ours. Any other caveats to add? Worst derby record in Edinburgh between two teams who’s names begin with an H?

We have nowhere near the worst derby record in world football. I would be surprised if there wasat least 100 other derbies that are more ‘one sided’. Infact I quite easily found that the very first one I thought of, Real V Atlético, is more one sided. I’m sure if I could be arsed I could find a ton of examples.

[EAZY-ME]

I had a feeling hearts would win last night as soon as i saw the teams in the tunnel....hearts players were were right up for it and geeing each other up whilst the hibs players were standing silently..

[Captain Trips]

there have long been tales and rumours of how hearts staff drill into new signings the absolute necessity of not losing to Hibs at all costs.

i don’t know whether it’s true but something’s amiss with our Derby record.

What staff? They have found staff over all the years able to do this and we dont?

[Hibs90]

Lennon talked about the boyband mentality. It's well and truly back. I was one of the first to want Lennon out but I know for sure that a Neil Lennon Hibs side doesn't go out and perform like that in a derby.

Jack Ross spoke about being in the job for a while when he joined, well if he and those players don't get a grip and shake off this and we lose the semi he won't be here for much longer that's for sure.

[Barman Stanton]

Lennon talked about the boyband mentality. It's well and truly back. I aas one of the first to want Lennon out but I know for sure that a Neil Lennon Hibs side doesn't go out and perform like that in a derby.

Jack Ross spoke about being in the job for a while when he joined, well if he and those players don't get a grip and shake off this and we lose the semi he won't be here for much longer that's for sure.

I must have imagined us playing crap at Tynecastle and Lennon threatening to leave us.

[emerald green]

So are you just ignoring derbies & matches against the OF that we've won at ER recently?

We have a manager that hasn't had a close season a transfer window to assemble his own squad.

We have a new owner who appears to be willing to speculate a bit and try to move the club up a level.

Are we not over analysing what was one *****y performance at the end of a pretty decent run?

It's not just recently I'm referring to. It goes back decades.


You're spreading that mentality with an attitude like that! How is that so difficult for people to understand? The only people who would carry this 'mentality' are the supporters. Because staff have been and gone. Fantasy stuff to suggest otherwise.

It's not my attitude, or that of the supporters. It's the attitude of players, coaches, and people in the Boardroom over decades.


Correct or we are the unluckiest club on earth signing players over years who have a mentality issue V Hearts yet they sign players who don't have such issues, really really bad luck on our part.

I'm not just talking about matches versus Hearts! See some of the points the current team has chucked away this season alone.


Iv read your post. I disagree. So if we have such a weak mentality how do you explain us winning at Tynecastle just months ago? Or knocking them out the cup on the way to winning it?

Is it not just possible that we are an inconsistent team who played well the last derby but terrible last night?

Again, it's not just about games against Hearts, albeit our record against them over the years is poor.


I had a feeling hearts would win last night as soon as i saw the teams in the tunnel....hearts players were were right up for it and geeing each other up whilst the hibs players were standing silently..

I wonder why that was the case? :rolleyes:

[Peevemor]

It's not just recently I'm referring to. It goes back decades.

It's the present and the future I'm most interested in.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I must have imagined us playing crap at Tynecastle and Lennon threatening to leave us.

Or his last derby where Olly Lee scored. Or the cup derby where we bottled making it ten games in a row undefeated against them.

Stubbs was the better derby manager. Facts.

[Hibs90]

I must have imagined us playing crap at Tynecastle and Lennon threatening to leave us.

*at home.

We were rubbish in that game too but it was nowhere near as bad as last night.

[HibeeHibernian4]

*at home.

We were rubbish in that game too but it was nowhere near as bad as last night.

Hibs 0-1 Hearts in December 2018. Long range goal from Lee and we never looked like scoring. A shocking performance.

[Barman Stanton]

It's not just recently I'm referring to. It goes back decades.



It's not my attitude, or that of the supporters. It's the attitude of players, coaches, and people in the Boardroom over decades.



I'm not just talking about matches versus Hearts! See some of the points the current team has chucked away this season alone.



Again, it's not just about games against Hearts, albeit our record against them over the years is poor.



I wonder why that was the case? :rolleyes:

But it makes no sense. How on earth does a team with such a bad mentality go to Tynecastle and win? Where were all these threads after that game?

[Barman Stanton]

*at home.

We were rubbish in that game too but it was nowhere near as bad as last night.

I agree, but don't pretend we didnt have bad derby performances under Lennon.

[Peevemor]

But it makes no sense. How on earth does a team with such a bad mentality go to Tynecastle and win? Where were all these threads after that game?

#kneejerktastic

[emerald green]

It's the present and the future I'm most interested in.

Same here, but those who don't learn from history are doomed to keep making the same mistakes.

[Anthony Soprano]

Bottle merchants to a man vs. that lot. Most one sided derby in world football. McGinn, Omeonga and McNulty looked beyond nervous. The support were even worse - flat from the off. Cannot stand why we roll over to these ****s.

Wind your neck in, it's not even close to being the most one sided derby in the world.

[Hibs90]

Hibs 0-1 Hearts in December 2018. Long range goal from Lee and we never looked like scoring. A shocking performance.

Not as bad as last night.

I have never felt more confident in a derby home or away than I did with Lennon or Stubbs in charge.

[Percy Vere]

[QUOTE=Chuck Rhoades;6107374]When have we ever lost 3 goals at ER to them? The thread is warranted. The fact people think last night was an acceptable off day is utterly ridiculous.[/QUOT

No ones saying it’s acceptable
But if it’s not an off day what was it????

[emerald green]

But it makes no sense. How on earth does a team with such a bad mentality go to Tynecastle and win? Where were all these threads after that game?

You keep referring to winning one game at Tynecastle against one of the worst Hearts sides in living memory.

One, which until they won for the second time at ER this season, were sitting bottom of an awful league. Their only two away wins all season so far. Both at ER.

Again, I'll say that I'm not just referring to games against HMFC! It goes far deeper than that imo.

I'll point again to the number of times this season Hibs have have chucked away points, against various teams, from winning positions. Failing to see games out successfully. Conceding goals late at the end of matches.

Does that not suggest there might just possibly be a weakness somewhere in the team?

[Captain Trips]

We have no mental issues what we do have is a defence that is not so good and if they have a bad night then you are in trouble. The defence have had a good few of these times but midfield or forwards have won us the match, unfortunately last night was the worst time for the rest of team to be poor hence we were punished.

[Bobo]

Last nights predictably insipid performance was no real surprise, it has been common place for the most part in our derby showings for the past 40 years!

In that time we have witnessed numerous squad changes, management and board changes as well as a couple of changes in ownership yet the same languid derby performances persist? Add in our numerous failings on the big occasions (Livingston, Ross County, Falkirk, Dunfermline, Ayr Utd, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen and the countless times we've never turned up against Celtic) and the evidence is there that there is a lack of mental fortitude within our club that's made us perpetual underachievers throughout that time.

Yes, there have been a few decent showings, (Dunfermline, Kilmarnock and Rangers) but these have been the exception rather than the rule and scant reward for a club of our reputed size.

Last night we gave the worst team in the league a get out of jail card and meekly handed them 3 points in their quest to avoid relegation while boosting their confidence for the remainder of their season at the same time! Our performance was pathetic, no imagination, no fight, too soft, too slow, no desire and no belief, pretty much constant features of the majority our derby performances in the past 40 years.

Neil Lennon was all too aware of the soft mentality that prevails within the playing staff and club and during his time we witnessed what a difference a stronger mentality can make.

The overall club mentality is too submissive for my liking and needs to be addressed. There is a frailty that our opponents are aware of and repeatedly expose and exploit to their advantage ... it needs to stop.

[GreenCastle]

Recruitment team need to find some leaders.

Nice football players only get you so far in Scotland.

Bartley - Milligan - Gray - McGregor just some of the leaders we have had.

Bartley was exactly what was needed last night.

Players who drag others along with them.

Even the players reaction after the goal they all went into their shell.

Jackson goes through the keeper and not one team mate lifts him up to help him.

McGregor was outstanding at Tynie - no one came close to that last night.

[Captain Trips]

You keep referring to winning one game at Tynecastle against one of the worst Hearts sides in living memory.

One, which until they won for the second time at ER this season, were sitting bottom of an awful league. Their only two away wins all season so far. Both at ER.

Again, I'll say that I'm not just referring to games against HMFC! It goes far deeper than that imo.

I'll point again to the number of times this season Hibs have have chucked away points, against various teams, from winning positions. Failing to see games out successfully. Conceding goals late at the end of matches.

Does that not suggest there might just possibly be a weakness somewhere in the team?

There are issues but they are not specific to Hearts which many are suggesting. The amount of threads is because it was vs Hearts. I saw why we lost we were pish but the way we have blew 2 goal leads is more my concern than last night.

[emerald green]

Last nights predictably insipid performance was no real surprise, it has been common place for the most part in our derby showings for the past 40 years!

In that time we have witnessed numerous squad changes, management and board changes as well as a couple of changes in ownership yet the same languid derby performances persist? Add in our numerous failings on the big occasions (Livingston, Ross County, Falkirk, Dunfermline, Ayr Utd, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen and the countless times we've never turned up against Celtic) and the evidence is there that there is a lack of mental fortitude within our club that's made us perpetual underachievers throughout that time.

Yes, there have been a few decent showings, (Dunfermline, Kilmarnock and Rangers) but these have been the exception rather than the rule and scant reward for a club of our reputed size.

Last night we gave the worst team in the league a get out of jail card and meekly handed them 3 points in their quest to avoid relegation while boosting their confidence for the remainder of their season at the same time! Our performance was pathetic, no imagination, no fight, too soft, too slow, no desire and no belief, pretty much constant features of the majority our derby performances in the past 40 years.

Neil Lennon was all too aware of the soft mentality that prevails within the playing staff and club and during his time we witnessed what a difference a stronger mentality can make.

The overall club mentality is too submissive for my liking and needs to be addressed. There is a frailty that our opponents are aware of and repeatedly expose and exploit to their advantage ... it needs to stop.

:top marks

[Barman Stanton]

Recruitment team need to find some leaders.

Nice football players only get you so far in Scotland.

Bartley - Milligan - Gray - McGregor just some of the leaders we have had.

Bartley was exactly what was needed last night.

Players who drag others along with them.

Even the players reaction after the goal they all went into their shell.

Jackson goes through the keeper and not one team mate lifts him up to help him.

McGregor was outstanding at Tynie - no one came close to that last night.

This I agree with. Hanlon is just not a captain. Could do with someone thats a bit more inspiring and vocal captaining when Gray is out. Who that would be I have no idea though.

[Barman Stanton]

You keep referring to winning one game at Tynecastle against one of the worst Hearts sides in living memory.

One, which until they won for the second time at ER this season, were sitting bottom of an awful league. Their only two away wins all season so far. Both at ER.

Again, I'll say that I'm not just referring to games against HMFC! It goes far deeper than that imo.

I'll point again to the number of times this season Hibs have have chucked away points, against various teams, from winning positions. Failing to see games out successfully. Conceding goals late at the end of matches.

Does that not suggest there might just possibly be a weakness somewhere in the team?

I think there is plenty weakness in the team. Defence needs improved. And we still need a proper defensive midfielder imo. I just dont think its a mental thing like you suggest. I just think we are an inconsistent team who had a shocker last night.

[mcohibs]

Last nights predictably insipid performance was no real surprise, it has been common place for the most part in our derby showings for the past 40 years!

In that time we have witnessed numerous squad changes, management and board changes as well as a couple of changes in ownership yet the same languid derby performances persist? Add in our numerous failings on the big occasions (Livingston, Ross County, Falkirk, Dunfermline, Ayr Utd, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen and the countless times we've never turned up against Celtic) and the evidence is there that there is a lack of mental fortitude within our club that's made us perpetual underachievers throughout that time.

Yes, there have been a few decent showings, (Dunfermline, Kilmarnock and Rangers) but these have been the exception rather than the rule and scant reward for a club of our reputed size.

Last night we gave the worst team in the league a get out of jail card and meekly handed them 3 points in their quest to avoid relegation while boosting their confidence for the remainder of their season at the same time! Our performance was pathetic, no imagination, no fight, too soft, too slow, no desire and no belief, pretty much constant features of the majority our derby performances in the past 40 years.

Neil Lennon was all too aware of the soft mentality that prevails within the playing staff and club and during his time we witnessed what a difference a stronger mentality can make.

The overall club mentality is too submissive for my liking and needs to be addressed. There is a frailty that our opponents are aware of and repeatedly expose and exploit to their advantage ... it needs to stop.

I'm sorry but that is absolute nonsense. Who is at the club now that was there 40 years ago?

The only consistent in that time has been the supporters. If there is a defeatist mentality being passed down then it can only be by supporters as players, managers, chairmen, owners have been and gone.

The only frailty is attitudes in our support similar to yours. It filters down and it has done for years. It will continue to do so if our support don't stop looking at defeats in derbies etc. as part of some kind of bigger picture or curse upon our club. I thought we were past that with the cup win in 2016 but it seem that some supporters are insistent on reverting back to an inferiority complex instead of dusting oursleves down and looking at a semi final of a cup competition as a massive opportunity. The very fact that some people are now saying they will not be attending the semi speaks volumes.

There's a soft mentality alright. Far too many of our supporters.

[sean04]

Been a long time since I've been this angry at my team. It's not even turned to dissapoitment yet. Still livid. I hope to **** the manager is the same

I’m the same, usually can get over it pretty quickly but I’m absolutely fizzing with how bad it was. A league 2 team would’ve beat us last night

[emerald green]

I'm sorry but that is absolute nonsense. Who is at the club now that was there 40 years ago?

The only consistent in that time has been the supporters. If there is a defeatist mentality being passed down then it can only be by supporters as players, managers, chairmen, owners have been and gone.

The only frailty is attitudes in our support similar to yours. It filters down and it has done for years. It will continue to do so if our support don't stop looking at defeats in derbies etc. as part of some kind of bigger picture or curse upon our club. I thought we were past that with the cup win in 2016 but it seem that some supporters are insistent on reverting back to an inferiority complex instead of dusting oursleves down and looking at a semi final of a cup competition as a massive opportunity. The very fact that some people are now saying they will not be attending the semi speaks volumes.

There's a soft mentality alright. Far too many of our supporters.

You just don't get it do you. Blame the supporters lol. :rolleyes:

[Since452]

I’m the same, usually can get over it pretty quickly but I’m absolutely fizzing with how bad it was. A league 2 team would’ve beat us last night

Yup. I was angry at half time never mind full time. I'm usually over defeats pretty quickly but last night was unacceptable for this football club. Apart from our consolation goal I can't remember us having a shot on target. Against relegation fodder. In a derby. At home. I seriously hope it was a one off shocking performance. I'm best just avoiding people today

[mcohibs]

You just don't get it do you. Blame the supporters lol. :rolleyes:

Not blaming supporters, I'm saying that the idea that any 'mentality issues' exist at the club, outwith our supporters, is nonsense.

Do we blame our chairman in 1981 for us getting beat 3-1 last night?

You're right, I don't get it. Because it makes no sense. Would genuinely appreciate an explanation from someone as to how these 'mentality issues' at the club have been passed down from employees at our football club. As far as I can see, the only people who seem to be reiterating the fact that these issues exist are our supporters.

[Captain Trips]

I think there is plenty weakness in the team. Defence needs improved. And we still need a proper defensive midfielder imo. I just dont think its a mental thing like you suggest. I just think we are an inconsistent team who had a shocker last night.

Correct,

We were just pish nothing really more to it and digging around at attitudes and games from past is pointless. It for me is really simple we were pish and got punished by an average at best Hearts team. A good side would have put 5 past us. Just like we played ***** v Hamilton at home once and away to Motherwell and the countless other times.

We were pish hopefully never to be repeated but it changes nothing for me regarding next meeting. If we played well then there would be a very different discussion and concern as that would suggest Hearts are better than I thought. They are not better than I thought we were poor and easy pickings.

[Gypsy King]

In all honesty and I hate to say it - They looked very good last night.

We really needed some composure last night and I was very disappointed In our inability to keep the ball. Im not sure if that was a testament to how well hearts pressed or how poor we were on the night.

From the first kick we looked flat footed and disinterested, whereas they looked like a team willing to fight for everything and hustle and harry at all available opportunities.

Despite Ross's comments R.E "not being up for it" Id wholeheartedly disagree with him. We were outfought from the first kick and it was a lack of desire and fight that cost us.

On a side note - the atmosphere was a disgrace. An absolute shambles. Bring back Jack Morrison and bring back the drum in the east. Section 43 BRING IT BACK. BRING IT BACK NOW.

[Onion]

Only time we’ve had their number over a sustained period was under McLeish and Lennon. Both managers were true winners who.refused to accept defeat and got more than the usual boyband performance.

In saying that both of their teams had leaders, fighters and winners in them. Without those types of players. I fear we’ll have more nights like yesterday. The bar needs to be set much higher for everyone associated with Hibs, from Ron down.

[Captain Trips]

In all honesty and I hate to say it - They looked very good last night.

We really needed some composure last night and I was very disappointed In our inability to keep the ball. Im not sure if that was a testament to how well hearts pressed or how poor we were on the night.

From the first kick we looked flat footed and disinterested, whereas they looked like a team willing to fight for everything and hustle and harry at all available opportunities.

Despite Ross's comments R.E "not being up for it" Id wholeheartedly disagree with him. We were outfought from the first kick and it was a lack of desire and fight that cost us.

On a side note - the atmosphere was a disgrace. An absolute shambles. Bring back Jack Morrison and bring back the drum in the east. Section 43 BRING IT BACK. BRING IT BACK NOW.

They looked good but they arent good. I would have looked good last night playing us i'm still though pish.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Only time we’ve had their number over a sustained period was under McLeish and Lennon. Both managers were true winners who.refused to accept defeat and got more than the usual boyband performance.

In saying that both of their teams had leaders, fighters and winners in them. Without those types of players. I fear we’ll have more nights like yesterday. The bar needs to be set much higher for everyone associated with Hibs, from Ron down.

Stubbs had their number more than Lennon did?

[mcfly]

It is not acceptable to any hibs fan paying money to watch the team that we lose twice at home to hearts in any season.

We are weak in midfield and the defence is abysmal.

That defence was NOT strengthened in January when it was so needed to be.

Last night was a disgrace and those players should be ashamed.

Have some pride in the jersey or go

[Col L]

142 wins vs. 86. That’s a fact not patter. Nearly double, a disgrace.

You'll be counting jumpers for goalposts matches at the Meadows next.

Our derby record has been brutal since I started watching Hibs - not helped by the two terrible sequences we endured in the mid-80s to mid-90s, but leave the 'most one-sided derby' nonsense to the Jambos please.

[emerald green]

Not blaming supporters, I'm saying that the idea that any 'mentality issues' exist at the club, outwith our supporters, is nonsense.

Do we blame our chairman in 1981 for us getting beat 3-1 last night?

You're right, I don't get it. Because it makes no sense. Would genuinely appreciate an explanation from someone as to how these 'mentality issues' at the club have been passed down from employees at our football club. As far as I can see, the only people who seem to be reiterating the fact that these issues exist are our supporters.

The bit in bold. At least we agree on that.

[mcfly]

I'm sorry but that is absolute nonsense. Who is at the club now that was there 40 years ago?

The only consistent in that time has been the supporters. If there is a defeatist mentality being passed down then it can only be by supporters as players, managers, chairmen, owners have been and gone.

The only frailty is attitudes in our support similar to yours. It filters down and it has done for years. It will continue to do so if our support don't stop looking at defeats in derbies etc. as part of some kind of bigger picture or curse upon our club. I thought we were past that with the cup win in 2016 but it seem that some supporters are insistent on reverting back to an inferiority complex instead of dusting oursleves down and looking at a semi final of a cup competition as a massive opportunity. The very fact that some people are now saying they will not be attending the semi speaks volumes.

There's a soft mentality alright. Far too many of our supporters.

What a load of utter rubbish.

Have a word mate. Your blaming fans for being defeatist when we turn up in our thousands paying a fortune to go to games.

Blaming fans for weakness in defence, poor passing. Poor judgement from players,

So so wrong

[Bobo]

I'm sorry but that is absolute nonsense. Who is at the club now that was there 40 years ago?

The only consistent in that time has been the supporters. If there is a defeatist mentality being passed down then it can only be by supporters as players, managers, chairmen, owners have been and gone.

The only frailty is attitudes in our support similar to yours. It filters down and it has done for years. It will continue to do so if our support don't stop looking at defeats in derbies etc. as part of some kind of bigger picture or curse upon our club. I thought we were past that with the cup win in 2016 but it seem that some supporters are insistent on reverting back to an inferiority complex instead of dusting oursleves down and looking at a semi final of a cup competition as a massive opportunity. The very fact that some people are now saying they will not be attending the semi speaks volumes.

There's a soft mentality alright. Far too many of our supporters.


It's not the supporters to blame.

Over the years, squads, managers and club officials change, but not on mass, there is transition, any strengths or weaknesses still prevalent get passed on, it's the overarching mentality that needs to be addressed and instilled in everyone connected with the club.

Being a nice club, with a soft accommodating attitude, who seldom stand up for themselves is the root problem. There has to be a change in approach to put an end to this.

[emerald green]

What a load of utter rubbish.

Have a word mate. Your blaming fans for being defeatist when we turn up in our thousands paying a fortune to go to games.

Blaming fans for weakness in defence, poor passing. Poor judgement from players,

So so wrong

Yep, it's also the fans to blame for throwing away around 20+ points this season alone from winning positions. Often against absolute dross.


It's not the supporters to blame.

Over the years, squads, managers and club officials change, but not on mass, there is transition, any strengths or weaknesses still prevalent get passed on, it's the overarching mentality that needs to be addressed and instilled in everyone connected with the club.

Being a nice club, with a soft accommodating attitude, who seldom stand up for themselves is the root problem. There has to be a change in approach to put an end to this.

Well summed up again. :agree:

[mcohibs]

What a load of utter rubbish.

Have a word mate. Your blaming fans for being defeatist when we turn up in our thousands paying a fortune to go to games.

Blaming fans for weakness in defence, poor passing. Poor judgement from players,

So so wrong

Think you've misunderstood my post and not seen it in full context. It was in reply to someone who has said that an inferiority complex has existed for decades at Hibernian. I was simply saying that if there is an inferiority complex then it can only be the supporters who pass that on because staff have come and gone over the decades.

Last night's defeat was 100% the fault of the players and management and nothing to do with the supporters. That wasn't what I was saying at all.

[mcohibs]

It's not the supporters to blame.

Over the years, squads, managers and club officials change, but not on mass, there is transition, any strengths or weaknesses still prevalent get passed on, it's the overarching mentality that needs to be addressed and instilled in everyone connected with the club.

Being a nice club, with a soft accommodating attitude, who seldom stand up for themselves is the root problem. There has to be a change in approach to put an end to this.

I get that, I really do. But I also feel like there needs to be a change in mentality from our support that every time we're beat in a derby, its part of some kind of wider curse upon our club our deep-rooted issue within the institution of the club itself.

[HibsGW]

It’s tempting to try to provide reasons for this type of defeat like poor mentality etc etc, like many have said, the players and managers come and go and the fans continue to go to support, its nothing to do with that. We won the last derby at Tynecastle, last night, all of our best players and pretty much all of the starting line up had horror-shows, nothing to do with mentality we just didn’t turn up at all last night. That’s an issue on the players part, it’s nothing to do with the mentality of our club or anything like that, the players simply need to do better. Hearts played well above how they have generally this season and we played well below how we generally have. End result, we were well beaten. I don’t think there’s much point in looking to deep root causes, we just now hope that the players turn it round after a terrible off day and if they don’t, we accept they’re maybe not as good as we thought they were and we get new players to replace them.

[Bobo]

It’s tempting to try to provide reasons for this type of defeat like poor mentality etc etc, like many have said, the players and managers come and go and the fans continue to go to support, its nothing to do with that. We won the last derby at Tynecastle, last night, all of our best players and pretty much all of the starting line up had horror-shows, nothing to do with mentality we just didn’t turn up at all last night. That’s an issue on the players part, it’s nothing to do with the mentality of our club or anything like that, the players simply need to do better. Hearts played well above how they have generally this season and we played well below how we generally have. End result, we were well beaten. I don’t think there’s much point in looking to deep root causes, we just now hope that the players turn it round after a terrible off day and if they don’t, we accept they’re maybe not as good as we thought they were and we get new players to replace them.

How is it that even the poorest of hearts teams are always up for a derby and fight and scrap for everything and more often than not our players don't turn up? It's all down to attitude or lack of it.

Both teams regularly have new players or foreign players who have no experience or previous knowledge of what the derby means to each club but the hearts newcomers always seem to play like they have where ours seldom do, why?

The difference is mental attitude and belief, we need to harden our attitudes

[Col L]

It’s tempting to try to provide reasons for this type of defeat like poor mentality etc etc, like many have said, the players and managers come and go and the fans continue to go to support, its nothing to do with that. We won the last derby at Tynecastle, last night, all of our best players and pretty much all of the starting line up had horror-shows, nothing to do with mentality we just didn’t turn up at all last night. That’s an issue on the players part, it’s nothing to do with the mentality of our club or anything like that, the players simply need to do better. Hearts played well above how they have generally this season and we played well below how we generally have. End result, we were well beaten. I don’t think there’s much point in looking to deep root causes, we just now hope that the players turn it round after a terrible off day and if they don’t, we accept they’re maybe not as good as we thought they were and we get new players to replace them.

100 per cent agree with this. There was a time where it definitely WAS a mentality issue and Hearts well and truly had en edge over us in derbies (the Alex Miller years spring to mind), but its evened out now, and last night was a terrible off-night. Hearts fully deserved to win, we fully deserved to lose.

Where mentality WILL come in now is for the players (and manager) to go out and prove at Hampden that they really do have the strength, grit and determination to get last night out of their system and right some wrongs.

[HibeeHibernian4]

How is it that even the poorest of hearts teams are always up for a derby and fight and scrap for everything and more often than not our players don't turn up? It's all down to attitude or lack of it.

Both teams regularly have new players or foreign players who have no experience or previous knowledge of what the derby means to each club but the hearts newcomers always seem to play like they have where ours seldom do, why?

The difference is mental attitude and belief, we need to harden our attitudes

They weren’t up for much of a scrap on Boxing Day were they?

[HibsGW]

As i said, the last derby this wasn’t the case. Many of the recent derbies this hasn’t been the case. Last night it definitely looked that way, Hearts played very well by their standards and we played very badly by ours. It isn’t a given in football that every game every player turns up and plays to 100% of their ability, if Scott Allan and Boyle etc played as well as we know they can every single game they’d be well above our level. Off days happen in football, it’s not completely excusing it, yesterday is a very poor level of underperformance but now the team needs to redeem themselves and that’s all there is to it. If the team isn’t able to redeem themselves, some of the players aren’t as good as we thought they were and they get moved on.
If our attitude is so poor that a team comes and beats us solely on attitude alone, why are we fighting for a European spot?

[CorrieHibs]

142 wins vs. 86. That’s a fact not patter. Nearly double, a disgrace.

I get what you are saying and our record is woeful. But, we do play each other 4 times a season, so they do rack up.

Liverpool v Everton is considerably more one sided. Everton haven’t won in 22,23 games? Liverpool played a under 23 side against them in the FA cup and still won! They also haven’t beaten them at Anfield since 1999!

Yes, our record is woeful, but at least we have enjoyed wins over them. Particularly in the last 4 years.

I hear hearts fan telling me that their record at Easter road is better than ours. Is that true? Or just a myth?

Ross got it wrong, the players didn’t perform and yes we have neat and tidy players rather than ones that are full of energy. Ross has a lot to think about from now until April.

[Bobo]

They weren’t up for much of a scrap on Boxing Day were they?

One of a maybe a handful of occasions over the last 40 years, what about the rest?

Last nights Hibs performance wasn't an exception for us, it's the norm, that's the difference sadly.

[emerald green]

They weren’t up for much of a scrap on Boxing Day were they?

Yes they were. Hibs just happened to win 2-1 that day.

[greenpaper55]

Seen this happen at ER for years, a few wins and the players start believing their own publicity, Ross said on tv last week that he was trying to get the players to realise how good they were and it looks like they believed him. It is the managers fault to keep the standards high, many times i have seen Hibs thinking they only have to turn up to get a result and was there not a thread on here yesterday which was calling for "seven" against the Hearts, see how it works ?

[Deansy]

142 wins vs. 86. That’s a fact not patter. Nearly double, a disgrace.

It's also a fact that this 'record' is affected by 30+ years of 'Other People's Money' - I just wish someone at ER would remind the players of this every time the derby comes around !

[mcohibs]

Yep, it's also the fans to blame for throwing away around 20+ points this season alone from winning positions. Often against absolute dross.

Well summed up again. :agree:

No one is blaming the fans for that. It is this season's players and management's fault.

What it certainly isn't the fault of is some kind of soft mentality that exists within the institution of the football club and 'has done for decades'.

Football's a simple game. Players and managers win or lose you games. When they leave they are replaced with players or managers who win or lose you games. There's no mythical mentality that lingers within the corridors of Easter Road.

Our players were garbage last night and Hearts played beter than us. That's why we lost, pure and simple.

[Captain Trips]

How is it that even the poorest of hearts teams are always up for a derby and fight and scrap for everything and more often than not our players don't turn up? It's all down to attitude or lack of it.

Both teams regularly have new players or foreign players who have no experience or previous knowledge of what the derby means to each club but the hearts newcomers always seem to play like they have where ours seldom do, why?

The difference is mental attitude and belief, we need to harden our attitudes

Dont play pish is the only difference there is no mental ongoing issues, maybe the players they had over years were better than some of ours and it has FA to do with anything other than ability. IMO at this moment our team is better than Hearts however when we hit bad form almost to a man you are in trouble. They were being run at one point by Romanov with a glut of foreign players how could they all have this attitude that we coudnt folk with no tie to club? They had money to buy players who were better than what we had on occasions.

Molofeev or whatever he was called along with the other managers I cant remember their names were able to bring some sort of attitude or mentality over the likes of Mowbray etc in winning derbies?. I dont think so.

We had an off night pure and simple.

[emerald green]

No one is blaming the fans for that. It is this season's players and management's fault.

What it certainly isn't the fault of is some kind of soft mentality that exists within the institution of the football club and 'has done for decades'.

Football's a simple game. Players and managers win or lose you games. When they leave they are replaced with players or managers who win or lose you games. There's no mythical mentality that lingers within the corridors of Easter Road.

Our players were garbage last night and Hearts played beter than us. That's why we lost, pure and simple.

Sorry but this isn't about last night's game in isolation. That's far too simplistic.

It's about a recurring trend, a softness, a lack of strong leadership on and off the pitch, that has existed at Hibs, on and off, for decades.

Neil Lennon was correct. Boy band.

[mcohibs]

Sorry but this isn't about last night's game in isolation. That's far too simplistic.

It's about a recurring trend, a softness, a lack of strong leadership on and off the pitch, that has existed at Hibs, on and off, for decades.

Neil Lennon was correct. Boy band.

What do Hearts have in terms of leadership that we don't currently?

What have they had in the past in terms of leadership that we haven't?

[Captain Trips]

Sorry but this isn't about last night's game in isolation. That's far too simplistic.

It's about a recurring trend, a softness, a lack of strong leadership on and off the pitch, that has existed at Hibs, on and off, for decades.

Neil Lennon was correct. Boy band.

Just v Hearts or in general?

[Bobo]

Dont play pish is the only difference there is no mental ongoing issues, maybe the players they had over years were better than some of ours and it has FA to do with anything other than ability. IMO at this moment our team is better than Hearts however when we hit bad form almost to a man you are in trouble. They were being run at one point by Romanov with a glut of foreign players how could they all have this attitude that we coudnt folk with no tie to club? They had money to buy players who were better than what we had on occasions.

Molofeev or whatever he was called along with the other managers I cant remember their names were able to bring some sort of attitude or mentality over the likes of Mowbray etc in winning derbies?. I dont think so.

We had an off night pure and simple.

The simplicity of it is either stand up and fight with a bit of belief or lie down and die and go out with a whimper.

Sadly the latter is all to prevalent in Hibs derby performances over the years. We've had better playing squads and managers than them on many occasions and the outcome has been more or less the same.

We're a soft touch and everyone knows it, not just hearts.

[Captain Trips]

2016 tells you all you need to know about attitudes and mentallity, swings and roundabouts. Just like earlier on at Tynecastle. Over last years Hearts have spent more on their team and in most cases it has worked out for them. IMO they are in a spell that although they won last night the spending has not worked out for them.

In last 40yrs they have spent more than us and had better teams we have been badly run in those times only in last few years to start striking a balance and a levelling out of the derby record based on better recruitment from us at times. Our record against Hearts since relegation up until now has improved due to the club being better run in general and our budget increasing with Hearts making some of the appointment mistakes we had been making.

There are no inherent issues at Hibs regarding Hearts they just have had better teams than us and you either like it or not.

[EI255]

Bottle merchants to a man vs. that lot. Most one sided derby in world football. McGinn, Omeonga and McNulty looked beyond nervous. The support were even worse - flat from the off. Cannot stand why we roll over to these ****s.Aye, and playing against a team that fielded a 17 year old.

That's Hibs though.

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

[emerald green]

What do Hearts have in terms of leadership that we don't currently?

What have they had in the past in terms of leadership that we haven't?

FFS it's not just about when we play Hearts, although I could site quite a few examples off the top of my head, but wont.

Did you watch Hibs teams chuck away over 20 points this season so far from winning positions against so-called smaller clubs? It's not a new phenomenon at ER.

I'm out. We are not going to agree.

[EI255]

And yet over the last few years the results have been pretty much completely even. Never see these threads when we beat them.

The whole team had an off day. Its unfortunate, but it happens.It even happened / happening to the mighty Liverpool.

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[Captain Trips]

The simplicity of it is either stand up and fight with a bit of belief or lie down and die and go out with a whimper.

Sadly the latter is all to prevalent in Hibs derby performances over the years. We've had better playing squads and managers than them on many occasions and the outcome has been more or less the same.

We're a soft touch and everyone knows it, not just hearts.


I think posted somewhere last 20 or so derbies is nip and tuck with about 10 wins each. Can you then explain this soft touch in those wins?

[emerald green]

Just v Hearts or in general?

Both.

[EI255]

We need to stop thinking we are the Scottish Barcelona and find the right mix. We had it mastered with lennon and to an extent stubbs. To win games like that you need a Marvin Bartley, a Darren Mcgregor a spine! That team has no backbone it's literally just a shoddy defence with a few Mavericks, which will get you by in games against the tripe of the Scottish leagues. But not in a derby. Forget big screens. Get the money spend and take a hit in the pocket to give us fans what we deserve. Absoloutely sick of rolling over to them! Do you think celtic would allow rangers to do that, or any other derby in the world? Every time we have a chance to laugh at them And kick them when they are down we let them get back up.That's what's always been missing in Hibs, just about as long as I can remember. A spine! Yes, we love our flair football and goalscorers. But we never seem to concentrate on a solid back line and midfield. Hibs should push the boat out this summer and rectify this. They have to. I'm sorry, but the likes of Hanlon and Lewis are finished. Great servants, loyal and true Hibernians, but they are finished at the top.

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[emerald green]

And yet over the last few years the results have been pretty much completely even. Never see these threads when we beat them.

The whole team had an off day. Its unfortunate, but it happens.

It's much more than "unfortunate" when Hibs are beaten (well beaten this time) for the second time this season, on our pitch, when Hearts are lying bottom of the league. How often do we find ourselves playing Hearts when they are in that position, yet we still get turned over. That's the major difference this time.

They've had two away wins all season. Both at ER. I call that weak from Hibs.

[Captain Trips]

It's much more than "unfortunate" when Hibs are beaten (well beaten this time) for the second time this season, on our pitch, when Hearts are lying bottom of the league. How often do we find ourselves playing Hearts when they are in that position, yet we still get turned over. That's the major difference this time.

They've had two away wins all season. Both at ER. I call that weak from Hibs.

If we fail to get top 6 and end up playing them at Tynecastle we would have chance to win twice there, could both teams have an issue in derbies at home?

[Captain Trips]

Yes they were. Hibs just happened to win 2-1 that day.

That makes our result even better then if Hearts were up for it and doing ok vs an out of sorts Hibs team that Queens Park could have put away.

[Barman Stanton]

It's much more than "unfortunate" when Hibs are beaten (well beaten this time) for the second time this season, on our pitch, when Hearts are lying bottom of the league. How often do we find ourselves playing Hearts when they are in that position, yet we still get turned over. That's the major difference this time.

They've had two away wins all season. Both at ER. I call that weak from Hibs.

Its a derby. What happened when we were in the lower league and drew Hearts in the Cup? Lower league so we should have no chance huh? Yet they couldnt beat us over 2 games. Derbies often go against the form/favourite.

It just looks like many Hibs fans cant take a defeat and the toys are well and truly out the pram. People are looking deeper for reasons when the truth is we were just s***.

[Bobo]

I think posted somewhere last 20 or so derbies is nip and tuck with about 10 wins each. Can you then explain this soft touch in those wins?

Wow, so your happy with a short period of parity against our bitterest rivals despite the fact that they've been a very poor side for the majority of that period.

The problem isn't only related to derby performances, there has been a frailty in our mental performance against most teams, for far too long, that too many people seem willing to sit back and accept. It's time to take the blinkers off and start to address it.

I've said my bit and appreciate that others have different opinions so will leave it there and see what happens for the rest of the season and beyond but don't think I'll be changing my thoughts anytime soon.

Hopefully our semi final performance proves me wrong.

[Captain Trips]

Wow, so your happy with a short period of parity against our bitterest rivals despite the fact that they've been a very poor side for the majority of that period.

The problem isn't only related to derby performances, there has been a frailty in our mental performance against most teams, for far too long, that too many people seem willing to sit back and accept. It's time to take the blinkers off and start to address it.

I've said my bit and appreciate that others have different opinions so will leave it there and see what happens for the rest of the season and beyond but don't think I'll be changing my thoughts anytime soon.

Hopefully our semi final performance proves me wrong.

Were do you get happy from? I cant change the past. I dont accept last night but I understand it and I am unhappy with the players and manager for it. As things have started levelling off to a degree I see the results have is all that I am saying.

[Gloucester Hibs]

Looks like the OP lobbed a few grenades in which didn't stand up to much scrutiny when analysed and has since disappeared into the sunset, possibly to re-emerge after the next derby defeat.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Yes they were. Hibs just happened to win 2-1 that day.

We won 2-0 for starters?

[mcohibs]

FFS it's not just about when we play Hearts, although I could site quite a few examples off the top of my head, but wont.

Did you watch Hibs teams chuck away over 20 points this season so far from winning positions against so-called smaller clubs? It's not a new phenomenon at ER.

I'm out. We are not going to agree.

I did watch us do that and I watched us sack the manager that oversaw that run of results and I've watched us improve since we hired a new manager. Losing games is not a 'phenomenon', it's part of football.

You mentioned a lack of leadership on and off the park over the years and I asked for examples in comparison to Hearts (not for any reason other than that they are our local rivals and usually comparable to us in terms of league position). If you can't/won't give examples to back up what you mean by a lack of leadership then that's up to you.

Agree to disagree but I just don't buy all of this hyperbole. Its like there's no middle ground or perspective with our fan base when it comes to derbies. Instead of realising and accepting that a defeat is down to us playing poorly, as anyone could see from watching us last night, its toys out the pram, there's a mentality issue at the club, we've been a soft touch for years, I'm not going to the semi anymore etc etc.

The reality is, in recent times of relative financial even ground with Hearts, the derby record is about 50/50 and that's probably how it should be.

Its not healthy for us as a support to blame every derby defeat from here on as belonging to a wider mentality issue ingrained at the club. It's the stuff of fantasy and only exists in the heads of us as a support. Dust ourselves down and get right behind the team for the next one.

Won't say anymore on the matter as going round in circles. Bruised today like all of us but absolutely looking forward to the semi (strangely more so after last night) and confident that on our day we are more than capable of beating them. 2016 changed my mentality as a Hibs supporter and a 3-1 league defeat to Hearts will not change it back.

[jacomo]

We need to stop thinking we are the Scottish Barcelona and find the right mix. We had it mastered with lennon and to an extent stubbs. To win games like that you need a Marvin Bartley, a Darren Mcgregor a spine! That team has no backbone it's literally just a shoddy defence with a few Mavericks, which will get you by in games against the tripe of the Scottish leagues. But not in a derby. Forget big screens. Get the money spend and take a hit in the pocket to give us fans what we deserve. Absoloutely sick of rolling over to them! Do you think celtic would allow rangers to do that, or any other derby in the world? Every time we have a chance to laugh at them And kick them when they are down we let them get back up.


We also had a few brutal, desperately poor performances and results under Lennon.

[Bobo]

Were do you get happy from? I cant change the past. I dont accept last night but I understand it and I am unhappy with the players and manager for it. As things have started levelling off to a degree I see the results have is all that I am saying.


Ok, sorry, I'll rephrase it to I can't be happy with accepting parity over that period, or at anytime to be honest.

Our game mentality does need to change and not just in derbies.

[emerald green]

We won 2-0 for starters?

OK my mistake.

[Captain Trips]

Ok, sorry, I'll rephrase it to I can't be happy with accepting parity over that period, or at anytime to be honest.

Our game mentality does need to change and not just in derbies.

Until we are spending more than Hearts and Aberdeen on fees and wages I want more than parity but won't get it and that is bottom line. What I want and what we are capable of.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I don’t think I said we hadn’t? The recent 4-0 and 5-1 at Hampden should have been enough for us to be rock bottom. To then not turn up, ***** ourselves and concede three goals against that Hearts team is criminal. Every one of them, from players and support, wanted it more than us.

Their fans wanted it more than ours? That's absurd lol

[The 90+2]

Last two games at tynecastle say different.

In between they two wins, we’ve chucked away leads left right and centre, we’ve also found ourselves having a mountain to climb being down by two before half an hour. This group of players aren’t strong minded enough to cope or are finished as individuals. Yet we don’t go for someone like Ambrose who oozed confidence and wouldn’t **** himself at any point like our defence (not McGinn who I thought was no bad).

[The 90+2]

Their fans wanted it more than ours? That's absurd lol

Exactly. It’s because we want it just as much or more that this place is all over the shop with arguing.

[MWHIBBIES]

142 wins vs. 86. That’s a fact not patter. Nearly double, a disgrace.

It's not nearly double. Go back to school.

It is even close to the most one-sided derby. Moronic patter.

[James Stephen]

Just to correct some of the stats on here from earlier...

Hibs and Hearts have played a total of 650 times.

Hearts have the better record, with 285 wins.

Hibs have won 206 times.

153 have been draws.

That equates to roughly HMFC winning 44%, HFC winning 32% and 24% as draws (with 6 abandoned)

Goals scored is 924 for Hibs, 1098 for Hearts.

Taken from London Hearts website.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Just to correct some of the stats on here from earlier...

Hibs and Hearts have played a total of 650 times.

Hearts have the better record, with 285 wins.

Hibs have won 206 times.

153 have been draws.

That equates to roughly HMFC winning 44%, HFC winning 32% and 24% as draws (with 6 abandoned)

Goals scored is 924 for Hibs, 1098 for Hearts.

Taken from London Hearts website.

That includes friendlies, Edinburgh Cup games etc. The competitive total is 324 derbies.

[mcohibs]

That includes friendlies, Edinburgh Cup games etc. The competitive total is 324 derbies.

So we've played them in more non-competitive games than competitive? Surely not?

[HibeeHibernian4]

So we've played them in more non-competitive games than competitive? Surely not?

As of last night it’s now exactly 325 competitive and 325 friendly/minor cup games. You have to remember how frequent they once were.

[Sammy7nil]

Never have and never will buy into this frankly bollox we have some sort of mentality issue for games against Hearts. I have read pish like that for years yet we have had different players, managers and now owners yet for some reason Hibs manage to acquire players who cant handle derbies but Hearts can?

So how come we didn't seem to have this issue at Tynecastle? Why do we need to look deeper into than key players happened to be pish last night? Hearts are not that good but we made it easy for them and in fact any team who played us last night would have won. We were so poor it only required a team to be able to string some passes together.

So think it simply down to Hearts being the better team for decades :confused: Hearts have won more derbies at ER than Hibs that is simply not right. There is something mentally wrong when we play them that is a fact because ability wise there has not been a gap for decades.

[Sammy7nil]

I did watch us do that and I watched us sack the manager that oversaw that run of results and I've watched us improve since we hired a new manager. Losing games is not a 'phenomenon', it's part of football.

You mentioned a lack of leadership on and off the park over the years and I asked for examples in comparison to Hearts (not for any reason other than that they are our local rivals and usually comparable to us in terms of league position). If you can't/won't give examples to back up what you mean by a lack of leadership then that's up to you.

Agree to disagree but I just don't buy all of this hyperbole. Its like there's no middle ground or perspective with our fan base when it comes to derbies. Instead of realising and accepting that a defeat is down to us playing poorly, as anyone could see from watching us last night, its toys out the pram, there's a mentality issue at the club, we've been a soft touch for years, I'm not going to the semi anymore etc etc.

The reality is, in recent times of relative financial even ground with Hearts, the derby record is about 50/50 and that's probably how it should be.

Its not healthy for us as a support to blame every derby defeat from here on as belonging to a wider mentality issue ingrained at the club. It's the stuff of fantasy and only exists in the heads of us as a support. Dust ourselves down and get right behind the team for the next one.

Won't say anymore on the matter as going round in circles. Bruised today like all of us but absolutely looking forward to the semi (strangely more so after last night) and confident that on our day we are more than capable of beating them. 2016 changed my mentality as a Hibs supporter and a 3-1 league defeat to Hearts will not change it back.

The reality is they did not win 80 more derbies when they were overspending, we are just dire in the derby.

[jacomo]

It's much more than "unfortunate" when Hibs are beaten (well beaten this time) for the second time this season, on our pitch, when Hearts are lying bottom of the league. How often do we find ourselves playing Hearts when they are in that position, yet we still get turned over. That's the major difference this time.

They've had two away wins all season. Both at ER. I call that weak from Hibs.


We’ve got a terrible derby record, no doubt about it.

Form goes out the window, but it normally seems to happen when our form is better.

I think, ultimately, they do want it more. They are the ultimate parochial club (despite being in a capital city).

I’m well behind Ron’s ambitions for our club, but those balloons stay in the same division as us we need to find a way of addressing it.

[Sir David Gray]

As of last night it’s now exactly 325 competitive and 325 friendly/minor cup games. You have to remember how frequent they once were.

Correct the competitive record is now;

Played - 325
Hearts wins - 143
Hibs wins - 86
Draws - 96

Assuming we play them 4 times a season, we would need to win every single derby for the next 15 years to better their head to head record.

[Iggy Pope]

Correct the competitive record is now;

Played - 325
Hearts wins - 143
Hibs wins - 86
Draws - 96

Assuming we play them 4 times a season, we would need to win every single derby for the next 15 years to better their head to head record.

Must be ***** supporting the Hibs with all that crap filling your head. It’s better the other way.

[Frankhfc]

Correct the competitive record is now;

Played - 325
Hearts wins - 143
Hibs wins - 86
Draws - 96

Assuming we play them 4 times a season, we would need to win every single derby for the next 15 years to better their head to head record.

Scottish cup record isn't that bad though. We're twelve wins to their fifteen. Hopefully reduce that deficit down to just two after the semi final.

Mon Hibs.

[Captain Trips]

So think it simply down to Hearts being the better team for decades :confused: Hearts have won more derbies at ER than Hibs that is simply not right. There is something mentally wrong when we play them that is a fact because ability wise there has not been a gap for decades.

Far more likely than some nonsense inherent mentality seeping through turnaround after turnaround of staff players and owners. It is not a fact BTW.

[James Stephen]

As of last night it’s now exactly 325 competitive and 325 friendly/minor cup games. You have to remember how frequent they once were.

I would argue they were competitive games. Lets not get like sky in England and start discounting competitions that existed previously, the local cups WERE football for a long time, and from what ive read, there were very few friendlies.

In the context in which they were played, they were competitive games and they count.

Winning the Edinburgh cup / shield for example was a big thing in the dim and distant past.

Using the term competitive is a misnomer. Fair enough use the term league games if you are talking specifically about league games, but dont strike through a big chunk of ours (and Hearts, and in fact all football in its first decades) narrative because of lack of historical context.

[Captain Trips]

So think it simply down to Hearts being the better team for decades :confused: Hearts have won more derbies at ER than Hibs that is simply not right. There is something mentally wrong when we play them that is a fact because ability wise there has not been a gap for decades.

Irrespective the list of Major honours will lead to like it or not why over all the years they have more wins. Is has nothing at all to do with player mentality I cannot see how that is possible with years and years of totally different players and managers. We can change below stas by beating them next month.

Both won title 4 times
Hibs Runners up 6, Them 14
SC Hibs 3, them 8
Both RU 7x
League cup Hibs 3, them 4
RU Hibs 7, them 3

Anyway @@@@ Hearts they will be getting pumped out the cup and Tuesdays win will all the have as they cry**** in the toilets.

[Barman Stanton]

I would argue they were competitive games. Lets not get like sky in England and start discounting competitions that existed previously, the local cups WERE football for a long time, and from what ive read, there were very few friendlies.

In the context in which they were played, they were competitive games and they count.

Winning the Edinburgh cup / shield for example was a big thing in the dim and distant past.

Using the term competitive is a misnomer. Fair enough use the term league games if you are talking specifically about league games, but dont strike through a big chunk of ours (and Hearts, and in fact all football in its first decades) narrative because of lack of historical context.

Not sure thats quite correct. If I remember rightly very few people went to the 'Festival Cup' friendly. No one really cared as it wasnt a competitive game. I also remember going to East of Scotland shield games in the 80s where there was probably less than 500 people there.

[G B Young]

Just to correct some of the stats on here from earlier...

Hibs and Hearts have played a total of 650 times.

Hearts have the better record, with 285 wins.

Hibs have won 206 times.

153 have been draws.

That equates to roughly HMFC winning 44%, HFC winning 32% and 24% as draws (with 6 abandoned)

Goals scored is 924 for Hibs, 1098 for Hearts.

Taken from London Hearts website.

As somebody else has pointed out earlier on the thread, the record is skewed somewhat by the fact that when we enjoyed a near 20-year period of derby domination from the late 60s through to the early 80s, there were only two league derbies per season. Had there been four a season we'd have enjoyed similarly the yams enjoyed in the 80s and 90s.

To quote Pat Stanton from his book The Quiet Man, "we dominated Hearts far more thoroughly' in his era than they have dominated us since.