5-1 and 2016 and how they changed the face of the derby

[matty_f]

Reading through the comments on here and on Twitter about the semi-final, there's an understandable reluctance from some people to be bullish about our chances of progressing. Old scars have taken a long time to heal and people are naturally hesitant to be completely optimistic about our chances. We've all seen this movie before.

Except we haven't really.

5-1 was a watershed moment in the derby. At the time it felt like the worst thing that could happen and it gave the Hearts fans justifiable reason to gloat about 'tHe BiGgEsT dErBy EvuUur'. It was hard to see how we'd bounce back from that defeat at the time, and although we reached the Scottish Cup Final the following year (something which, in itself, was something of resurrection for us after the 2012 horror show). However, to compound that we also managed to excel ourselves and get relegated.

We all know what 5-1 cost Hearts, they almost went out of existence chasing that Scottish Cup and paying the players way above what they could afford. As a consequence of that financial mismanagement, they too were relegated.

Since then, Hearts have still enjoyed a degree of a financial advantage over us thanks to the FoH but they haven't been managed well, and that advantage has largely been nullified by their ineptitude and from Hibs running a tight ship. In this period of broad financial parity (give or take) our results against them have been good.

The Tiny derby in the Scottish Cup can be viewed as a huge turning point. At 0-2 going into the final stages of the match, there wouldn't have been too many Hibs fans who banked on us turning it around. But we did - a stunning late comeback and a slice of fortune (Gunnarson clearing onto his own crossbar - how often have we seen this drop in in this fixture in the past) saw us take Hearts back to Easter Road and promptly dump them out the cup.

We all know what happened next :greengrin:

Hearts have held their derby record, 5-1, and us not winning the cup over us for years - we've won the cup now, and in the post 2012 world, our derby record stands above theirs (I think) - we have knocked them out of the cup on a couple of occasions (including the first tie post-2012).

Hearts aren't our bogey team any more, they will get results against us now and then because the gap between us isn't that huge (well, it is at the moment, but...you know) but we should face into these games with confidence and belief that the game has changed.

This semi-final is a huge opportunity to put right some wrongs, it's up to us now to embrace that opportunity and throw everything at it.

**** the past, this is now, and this Hibs side is better than them.

[mcohibs]

Reading through the comments on here and on Twitter about the semi-final, there's an understandable reluctance from some people to be bullish about our chances of progressing. Old scars have taken a long time to heal and people are naturally hesitant to be completely optimistic about our chances. We've all seen this movie before.

Except we haven't really.

5-1 was a watershed moment in the derby. At the time it felt like the worst thing that could happen and it gave the Hearts fans justifiable reason to gloat about 'tHe BiGgEsT dErBy EvuUur'. It was hard to see how we'd bounce back from that defeat at the time, and although we reached the Scottish Cup Final the following year (something which, in itself, was something of resurrection for us after the 2012 horror show). However, to compound that we also managed to excel ourselves and get relegated.

We all know what 5-1 cost Hearts, they almost went out of existence chasing that Scottish Cup and paying the players way above what they could afford. As a consequence of that financial mismanagement, they too were relegated.

Since then, Hearts have still enjoyed a degree of a financial advantage over us thanks to the FoH but they haven't been managed well, and that advantage has largely been nullified by their ineptitude and from Hibs running a tight ship. In this period of broad financial parity (give or take) our results against them have been good.

The Tiny derby in the Scottish Cup can be viewed as a huge turning point. At 0-2 going into the final stages of the match, there wouldn't have been too many Hibs fans who banked on us turning it around. But we did - a stunning late comeback and a slice of fortune (Gunnarson clearing onto his own crossbar - how often have we seen this drop in in this fixture in the past) saw us take Hearts back to Easter Road and promptly dump them out the cup.

We all know what happened next :greengrin:

Hearts have held their derby record, 5-1, and us not winning the cup over us for years - we've won the cup now, and in the post 2012 world, our derby record stands above theirs (I think) - we have knocked them out of the cup on a couple of occasions (including the first tie post-2012).

Hearts aren't our bogey team any more, they will get results against us now and then because the gap between us isn't that huge (well, it is at the moment, but...you know) but we should face into these games with confidence and belief that the game has changed.

This semi-final is a huge opportunity to put right some wrongs, it's up to us now to embrace that opportunity and throw everything at it.

**** the past, this is now, and this Hibs side is better than them.

Herein lies the issue for me. What you've said there in the space of two sentences is completely contradictory.

I am well aware that we are night and day from where we were in 2012 and that on paper, yes we are the better team. But as fans we can't bleed on about 'forget the past' or '5-1 is history' and then say we want to pump hearts to make amends for those very games we claim to not be bothered about.

This talk of putting wrongs to right and getting revenge IMO should not be the context going into this derby. Just win the game. I'd take a scrappy 1-0 from a deflection if you offered me now. Win the game. Nothing else matters.

[Dolce7]

You have a point but anytime we have to put something over them it rarely goes to plan
also as good as 2016 win was I would rather the opposition was hearts that day

[HibeeHibernian4]

You have a point but anytime we have to put something over them it rarely goes to plan
also as good as 2016 win was I would rather the opposition was hearts

I think for the story of that season it simply had to be Rangers. Going all the way back to the summer when they tried and failed to take Allan from us.

[Diclonius]

Both Hampden games put either a severely depleted or just plain bad Hibs team against arguably the best Hearts team in the last thirty years. That still doesn't excuse the fact that both games we lost by four goals.

Now we have a much better team than then and will be favourites. We have an excellent opportunity to get some comeuppance at the national stadium for two of the worst results in our history.

Sorry, but this is the "revenge" derby for me.

[matty_f]

Herein lies the issue for me. What you've said there in the space of two sentences is completely contradictory.

I am well aware that we are night and day from where we were in 2012 and that on paper, yes we are the better team. But as fans we can't bleed on about 'forget the past' or '5-1 is history' and then say we want to pump hearts to make amends for those very games we claim to not be bothered about.

This talk of putting wrongs to right and getting revenge IMO should not be the context going into this derby. Just win the game. I'd take a scrappy 1-0 from a deflection if you offered me now. Win the game. Nothing else matters.

You're right, I completely agree with that.

Scrap the last part of that opening post! :greengrin

[matty_f]

You have a point but anytime we have to put something over them it rarely goes to plan
also as good as 2016 win was I would rather the opposition was hearts that day

No danger, wouldn't have changed 2016 for anything.

We gave them a 2 goal headstart to put us out and stop us winning and they couldn't do it.

[KWJ]

Since the 2012 cup final

League - 8 draws, 7 hibs wins, 7 hearts wins
Scottish Cup - 2 draws, 3 hibs wins and 1 hearts win
League cup - 1 hearts win

Total

29 games

10 Hibs wins
9 Hearts wins
10 draws.

Hibs 28 goals
Hearts 22 goals

[JeMeSouviens]

Both Hampden games put either a severely depleted or just plain bad Hibs team against arguably the best Hearts team in the last thirty years. That still doesn't excuse the fact that both games we lost by four goals.

Now we have a much better team than then and will be favourites. We have an excellent opportunity to get some comeuppance at the national stadium for two of the worst results in our history.

Sorry, but this is the "revenge" derby for me.

There is an almost infinitesimally small chance we win by 4. They weren't going to win by 4 until Craig Thomson stepped in to make sure. And the 2006 game we had Zibi and lost the head.

Having said that, if they bring back the honking keeper it'd go to a reasonable outside bet. :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

Herein lies the issue for me. What you've said there in the space of two sentences is completely contradictory.

I am well aware that we are night and day from where we were in 2012 and that on paper, yes we are the better team. But as fans we can't bleed on about 'forget the past' or '5-1 is history' and then say we want to pump hearts to make amends for those very games we claim to not be bothered about.

This talk of putting wrongs to right and getting revenge IMO should not be the context going into this derby. Just win the game. I'd take a scrappy 1-0 from a deflection if you offered me now. Win the game. Nothing else matters.

:agree:

Very well said. :top marks

[Hermit Crab]

Both Hampden games put either a severely depleted or just plain bad Hibs team against arguably the best Hearts team in the last thirty years. That still doesn't excuse the fact that both games we lost by four goals.

Now we have a much better team than then and will be favourites. We have an excellent opportunity to get some comeuppance at the national stadium for two of the worst results in our history.

Sorry, but this is the "revenge" derby for me.


2006 we had sold Gary O and had injury issues such as Killen and riordan was suspended and we had a maniac of a goalkeeper. Sproule and Gary Smith getting sent off didn't help either.

In 2012 we were a complete basket case of a club.

Semi final team
Malkowski, Whittaker, Gary Smith, Caldwell, Murphy, Sproule, Hogg, Thomson, Glass (Konte 62), Fletcher (McCluskey 82), Benjelloun (Konde 70).
Subs Not Used: Simon Brown, Shields.

[MyJo]

Since the 2012 cup final

League - 8 draws, 7 hibs wins, 7 hearts wins
Scottish Cup - 2 draws, 3 hibs wins and 1 hearts win
League cup - 1 hearts win

Total

29 games

10 Hibs wins
9 Hearts wins
10 draws.

Hibs 28 goals
Hearts 22 goals

Maybe more relevant is results since both teams were relegated and Hearts stopped spending money they didn't have.

14 league games: Hearts-4 Hibs-5 Drawn-5
5 Scottish cup games: Hearts-1 Hibs-2 Drawn-2
Goals scored: Hearts-11 Hibs-15

[Rumble de Thump]

The referee gifted them the cup in 2012. I've yet to see another ref award a penalty for a foul so far outside of the box.

[Peevemor]

Maybe more relevant is results since both teams were relegated and Hearts stopped spending money they didn't have.

14 league games: Hearts-4 Hibs-5 Drawn-5
5 Scottish cup games: Hearts-1 Hibs-2 Drawn-2
Goals scored: Hearts-11 Hibs-15

They're still spending a lot more than us - much of it down to mystery benefactors.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Since the 2012 cup final

League - 8 draws, 7 hibs wins, 7 hearts wins
Scottish Cup - 2 draws, 3 hibs wins and 1 hearts win
League cup - 1 hearts win

Total

29 games

10 Hibs wins
9 Hearts wins
10 draws.

Hibs 28 goals
Hearts 22 goals

Tomorrow night and April will be a good chance for us to boost these stats, but also shows people it’s not been as “dominant” for us and some think.

[The 90+2]

2006 we had sold Gary O and had injury issues such as Killen and riordan was suspended and we had a maniac of a goalkeeper. Sproule and Gary Smith getting sent off didn't help either.

In 2012 we were a complete basket case of a club.

Semi final team
Malkowski, Whittaker, Gary Smith, Caldwell, Murphy, Sproule, Hogg, Thomson, Glass (Konte 62), Fletcher (McCluskey 82), Benjelloun (Konde 70).
Subs Not Used: Simon Brown, Shields.

Didn’t Whittaker play in midfield our squad was that fkd? Benjis first game?

[Hermit Crab]

Didn’t Whittaker play in midfield our squad was that fkd? Benjis first game?


Aye he did play in Midfield that day. It was Benji's first game as well.

[Diclonius]

Aye he did play in Midfield that day. It was Benji's first game as well.

My first Hibs game too!

Maybe why I'm so pessimistic now.

[Alex Trager]

There is an almost infinitesimally small chance we win by 4. They weren't going to win by 4 until Craig Thomson stepped in to make sure. And the 2006 game we had Zibi and lost the head.

Having said that, if they bring back the honking keeper it'd go to a reasonable outside bet. :wink:

I forgot all about him.

Oh how he must return.

[Dolce7]

No danger, wouldn't have changed 2016 for anything.

We gave them a 2 goal headstart to put us out and stop us winning and they couldn't do it.


The only thing I would have changed for 2016 is the opposition I would have preferred if it was Hearts and
also the pitch invasion which spoiled the celebrations at Hampden and good photo opportunities otherwise
a good day all round

[HibeeHibernian4]

I think the 5-1 and our win in 2016 have lowered the stakes in a sense for this game and that’s no bad thing.

Hearts don’t have the hellbent determination to stop us from winning it for the first time since 1902. We also don’t have all the pressure that comes with that anymore. Should mean it’s a bit more of a regular derby which hopefully suits us better.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

They're still spending a lot more than us - much of it down to mystery benefactors.

Benefactors Injecting cash into the club VAT-free if I understand correctly.

If this runs in to the 100k or beyond wonder if there’s a threshold for mr taxman to frown. Can hardly blame them from exploiting this however wonder where they were when the punters were having their children (apparently) forego Christmas presents and line Mr Romanovs suitcase for non-existent share certificates.

[Kato]

The only thing I would have changed for 2016 is the opposition I would have preferred if it was Hearts and
also the pitch invasion which spoiled the celebrations at Hampden and good photo opportunities otherwise
a good day all round

pants

[007]

Since the 2012 cup final

League - 8 draws, 7 hibs wins, 7 hearts wins
Scottish Cup - 2 draws, 3 hibs wins and 1 hearts win
League cup - 1 hearts win

Total

29 games

10 Hibs wins
9 Hearts wins
10 draws.

Hibs 28 goals
Hearts 22 goals

Or since the financial doping era (from June '14 onwards):

League - 5 draws, 5 Hibs wins, 4 Hearts wins
Scottish Cup - 2 draws, 2 Hibs wins and 1 Hearts win
League cup - 0 games

Total 19 games

7 Hibs wins
5 Hearts wins
7 draws.

[Perd Hapley]

For me the elephant in the room is just that that was the last big scoreline in the derby - for me and I think a few others that niggle will never be fully exorcised until we stuff them by a similar scoreline - another 6-2 or 7-0, which will happen eventually, but such things can't be forced.

With that being said they're that rank rotten right now that depending on which Hibs and which Hearts turn up tomorrow night may be as good an opportunity as any for a substantial win. In truth I expect them to be aggressive and well organised defensively - at least at first. The longer time goes on though the more I'd expect our current attack to find a way through - I'm more worried about our own defence tbh

4-2 Hibs, from 1-0 and then 2-1 down, at least one Hearts player sent off and two more to be put in an ICU after trying to run too fast

[Since452]

5-1 is almost insignificant to me. Hurt for a while like any cup final defeat does but they went in to adminstration shortly after rendering their trophy tainted. In derby terms it only gave us a kick up the arse. We put them out the cup the very next season and haven't really looked back.

2016 was the biggest single win for a club in Scotland in terms of completely transforming the club and it's fanbase. We're still riding the wave four years later. Read somewhere our average attendance last season was the highest since the 1950's. 2016 was monsterous for this football club. We no longer have that cringe 1902 thing to hear at derbys and their fans are usually very quiet at Tynecastle. It's no surprise we've won two in a row there for probably the first time in my life.

[Sammy7nil]

Herein lies the issue for me. What you've said there in the space of two sentences is completely contradictory.

I am well aware that we are night and day from where we were in 2012 and that on paper, yes we are the better team. But as fans we can't bleed on about 'forget the past' or '5-1 is history' and then say we want to pump hearts to make amends for those very games we claim to not be bothered about.

This talk of putting wrongs to right and getting revenge IMO should not be the context going into this derby. Just win the game. I'd take a scrappy 1-0 from a deflection if you offered me now. Win the game. Nothing else matters.

:aok::top marks

[Sammy7nil]

2006 we had sold Gary O and had injury issues such as Killen and riordan was suspended and we had a maniac of a goalkeeper. Sproule and Gary Smith getting sent off didn't help either.

In 2012 we were a complete basket case of a club.

Semi final team
Malkowski, Whittaker, Gary Smith, Caldwell, Murphy, Sproule, Hogg, Thomson, Glass (Konte 62), Fletcher (McCluskey 82), Benjelloun (Konde 70).
Subs Not Used: Simon Brown, Shields.

That team at first glance is no where near as bad as I recall.

[JeMeSouviens]

For me the elephant in the room is just that that was the last big scoreline in the derby - for me and I think a few others that niggle will never be fully exorcised until we stuff them by a similar scoreline - another 6-2 or 7-0, which will happen eventually, but such things can't be forced.

With that being said they're that rank rotten right now that depending on which Hibs and which Hearts turn up tomorrow night may be as good an opportunity as any for a substantial win. In truth I expect them to be aggressive and well organised defensively - at least at first. The longer time goes on though the more I'd expect our current attack to find a way through - I'm more worried about our own defence tbh

4-2 Hibs, from 1-0 and then 2-1 down, at least one Hearts player sent off and two more to be put in an ICU after trying to run too fast

The last 4 wins by more than 1 goal are all us. Which is nice. Hoping for 5 tomorrow.

[DH1875]

I genuinely couldn't give a flying duck about 5-1, they can shove it up their ....

[judas]

I don’t carry any scars.

I feel now as I did then: That Scottish Cup was tainted.

Hearts won it with funds they did not have and that simple fact was borne out in the months and years following that ridiculous day.

You may want to lament it, and certainly, we were a gash team. But our honest cup win was with more than a dozen of their shady acquisitions.

The record books may not recognise it, but the nature of victory matters to me.

[Dolce7]

I genuinely couldn't give a flying duck about 5-1, they can shove it up their ....

wouldn’t go as far as that for all of us who attended that day it hurt like hell
and will never be forgotten there is no point pretending otherwise

[HibbyAndy]

I don’t carry any scars.

I feel now as I did then: That Scottish Cup was tainted.

Hearts won it with funds they did not have and that simple fact was borne out in the months and years following that ridiculous day.

You may want to lament it, and certainly, we were a gash team. But our honest cup win was with more than a dozen of their shady acquisitions.

The record books may not recognise it, but the nature of victory matters to me.


wouldn’t go as far as that for all of us who attended that day it hurt like hell
and will never be forgotten there is no point pretending otherwise


See the post above , That sums it up in a nutshell for me

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

That team at first glance is no where near as bad as I recall.

Looks okay on paper but a couple of players having to play out of position, Benji had only arrived in the country that week I’m sure and was-understandably-completely lost all game, Zibi played like he was steaming and we’d lost Brown, Riordan and O Connor(possibly others?) from the team that had been playing well all season.

[Captain Trips]

That team at first glance is no where near as bad as I recall.

Its not but when your keeper is chucking them in it can be as good as it likes.

[Captain Trips]

It was a perfect storm them with the money and us somehow stumbling on into the final with IMO a terribly poor team.

[EAZY-ME]

5-1 wasn't the turning point ... the 1-0 game was the turning point with James mcpake stating "they will never walk over us from now on"....... and they haven't

[Diclonius]

5-1 wasn't the turning point ... the 1-0 game was the turning point with James mcpake stating "they will never walk over us from now on"....... and they haven't

That was 1-1 and they walked over us for a few games after that.

The real turning point for me was 2-2.

[hibbydog]

2016 changed everything about being a hibby. Put to bed a world famous hoodoo and we’re no longer a laughing stock. And we did it with a last minute winner against the team that represents pure evil. We never dared to dream of something like that. I’m much less anxious about Hibs knowing we can look back in that.

But I really want revenge against Hearts. They bought 2 Scottish cups with money they didn’t pay back and humiliated Hibs in the process.

We’ll never get a better chance to right these wrongs.

[DH1875]

wouldn’t go as far as that for all of us who attended that day it hurt like hell
and will never be forgotten there is no point pretending otherwise

I was there that day and even stayed until the end. I genuinely couldn't care less about it these days.

[Sammy7nil]

wouldn’t go as far as that for all of us who attended that day it hurt like hell
and will never be forgotten there is no point pretending otherwise

Maybe an age thing but I got over it very quickly there are far more important things. After our cup win I genuinely could not give a monkeys about 5-1 and if truth be told i think that hurt the Jam far more than 5-1 hurt us.

I may be wrong but just my opinion.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The only thing I would have changed for 2016 is the opposition I would have preferred if it was Hearts and
also the pitch invasion which spoiled the celebrations at Hampden and good photo opportunities otherwise
a good day all round

Aye right. 2016 was perfect and the opposition was perfect too. As for the pitch invasion, it might have spoiled yer photo opportunity, but in years to come it will be part of this clubs folklore. If you want proof look at the Yams thread from that day, they went on and on about the pitch invasion bringing shame on Hibs and us ruining the day .... but the truth is they wish it was them, and they know it :greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

First things first. 5 - 1 was a disaster and a result the Yams will be able to hold over us, it was a cup final and we just didn't turn up, financial doping or not, biased ref or not, we probably would have lost anyway ... though not by 4 goals. Their fans don't care and neither would we.

But since that day and the financial doping which ramped up Hearts ability to build a team almost leading to their destruction the playing field has levelled to the extent where the derby is almost always a 50/50 shot, where strangely even home advantage doesn't appear to be a big factor, we come away from the rust arena with a result far more than we used to.

That come back from 2 - 0 down in 2016 probably did have an affect on the psyche of the fixture. As a club we suddenly realised that more often than not, what held us back in derby matches was us, not the ability of any Hearts team.

A number of times over the last 15 years Hibs have had an opportunity to stick it up a supposedly inferior Hearts team and more often than not have let themselves and us down ... that is why no matter how good things look on paper for us our support as a rule does not go over the top about our chances in any derby ... better to play it down and celebrate later than big it up and be let down .. its that simple.

[cocteautwin]

Why is this game ever even mentioned on here? I wish people would just ignore it 100%. There should be a blanket ban on talking about it.

[Deansy]

Their 5-1 'win' will always carry an 'ah but' (if it wasn't for them cheating !) - whereas ALL our wins are stain-free, ALL accomplished without dipping any charity-boxes!

[Dolce7]

Maybe an age thing but I got over it very quickly there are far more important things. After our cup win I genuinely could not give a monkeys about 5-1 and if truth be told i think that hurt the Jam far more than 5-1 hurt us.

I may be wrong but just my opinion.

In football terms it was an all time low for us at the time along with the play off defeat to Hamilton
but away from football there is more important things after all its only a game

[matty_f]

wouldn’t go as far as that for all of us who attended that day it hurt like hell
and will never be forgotten there is no point pretending otherwise

Imagine having to go to the lengths of pretending to be a Hibby to convince yourself of this kind of pish. :faf:

See ya, Duncan.

[Robinho08]

Valid post, but 2016 hurt them more than 1-5 hurt us because they lost 1902 and their songbook. 🇳🇬

I think from them going into admin, we hold a slight advantage over all the derbies.