Bizarre end to Hoffenheim v Bayern Munich game

[Keith_M]

The game between Hoffenheim and Bayern Munich was temporarily stopped (twice), then the last few minutes played in a totally bizarre fashion, with the players just passing the ball back and forward to each other.

The reason was the Bayern Ultras group decided to display a banner (https://www.bavarianfootballworks.com/2020/2/29/21159153/karl-heinz-rummenigge-hansi-flick-bayern-munich-fans-dietmar-hopp-hoffenheim) targeting the Hoffenheim owner.

I have no idea if there's some back story to this but both clubs seem to be disgusted with the behaviour of the Ultras group, with lots of Bayern officials, players and former stars making a point of condemning the banner.

--------

“I saw in the dressing room after the second stoppage that the players were angry and shocked at our own fans,” Rummenigge said afterward.

The match and the ensuing events come two days after Bayern celebrated the 120th anniversary of its founding. ....

When asked by BFW about the timing of the fan protest, Rummenigge said, “It would have been a wonderful week. We had a great game in London. We had a great game today.”

“And with this act, everything was ruined,” he added.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Bit dramatic

[malcolm]

I kind of understand the gripes of those fans but the contrast with the united approach to offensive behaviour in Germany and in Scotland is quite stark and sad.

From the bbc report https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51690403

German football league chief executive Christian Seifert: "The continuous animosity towards Dietmar Hopp has been unacceptable for some time and must be condemned in the strongest possible terms. There are no excuses.

"Everyone involved - players, officials, Hoffenheim and Bayern board members and the majority of the people in the stadium - reacted to this situation in an exemplary manner and sent out a clear statement that this sort of thing will no longer be tolerated. This type of hatred can have no place in football. That has to be the aspiration of German football as a whole."

Bayern chief executive Karl-Heinz Rummenigge: "I'm deeply embarrassed, particularly for Dietmar Hopp. Football reared its ugly head. The moment has come for the whole of German football to stand together. For too long we've turned a blind eye to what's been going on in the stands.

"After what happened today we need to rethink things and we need to fight it with everything we have. We filmed everything and will come down heavily on our fans and bring them to justice. These people have no place in football stadiums."

[ABZHFC]

Good on their ultras, anyone who does even an ounce of research on Hoffenheim and German football would know why Hopp is so hated. He has tried to get Dortmund fans prosecuted for chants about him, an egomaniac of a man who the German FA protect at all costs because his company, SAP, are one of their main sponsors.

This is a clash between modern football and genuine fans, not between civility and disgrace, as the media are trying to make out.

And of course, most depressing of all, we know now that most footballers are more willing to walk off the pitch in support of an old billionaire being called a 'son of a whore' than they are their black team-mate getting racially abused

[Keith_M]

Good on their ultras, anyone who does even an ounce of research on Hoffenheim and German football would know why Hopp is so hated. He has tried to get Dortmund fans prosecuted for chants about him, an egomaniac of a man who the German FA protect at all costs because his company, SAP, are one of their main sponsors.

This is a clash between modern football and genuine fans, not between civility and disgrace, as the media are trying to make out.

And of course, most depressing of all, we know now that most footballers are more willing to walk off the pitch in support of an old billionaire being called a 'son of a whore' than they are their black team-mate getting racially abused


Seriously?

Claiming that it's OK to publicly abuse an old man by calling him Son Of A Whore says a lot more about you than it does him.

I never thought I'd write this, but.... well done Bayern.

[DaveF]

Berlin v Wolfsburg is the same. Berlin just scored, banner on display and everyone off the field.

[Bishop Hibee]

It’s a battle for the soul of German football. Privately, people like Rummenigge would love the sort of system the EPL has of billionaire ownership. Unsurprisingly, fans who already own their clubs are less keen. Are the banners offensive? Yes. Should players go of the pitch? In my opinion, no.

[ABZHFC]

Seriously?

Claiming that it's OK to publicly abuse an old man by calling him Son Of A Whore says a lot more about you than it does him.

I never thought I'd write this, but.... well done Bayern.

Should they have put the banners up? Probably not. Should the game be stopped as a result? Of course not, absolutely absurd. And like I say, just bear it in mind next time a black player gets racially abused and tries to walk off the park.

Read up on the struggles between ultras and boards in Germany at the moment, this is a pivotal moment and (sadly) greed is winning. These ultras are anti-racist, anti-homophobia, anti-fascists campaigners who are being silenced by the German FA because they hate their game being ruined by money

[ABZHFC]

Great stuff from Union Berlin fans too. This is a decisive moment for the German ultras scene, and they are brilliantly making their voice heard. One of the last few big leagues in Europe to not be at behest of cowboy capitalism, and they are fighting tooth and nail to keep it that way

[Hibrandenburg]

Should they have put the banners up? Probably not. Should the game be stopped as a result? Of course not, absolutely absurd. And like I say, just bear it in mind next time a black player gets racially abused and tries to walk off the park.

Read up on the struggles between ultras and boards in Germany at the moment, this is a pivotal moment and (sadly) greed is winning. These ultras are anti-racist, anti-homophobia, anti-fascists campaigners who are being silenced by the German FA because they hate their game being ruined by money

Union have a growing far right problem that gets tolerated by their fans. Their ultras are anything but anti-racist.

[ABZHFC]

Union have a growing far right problem that gets tolerated by their fans. Their ultras are anything but anti-racist.

Union's ultras lean left and are most definitely anti-racist, the vast majority of ultras' groups in Germany hold banners supporting anti-discrimination causes. And they are the buffer that has been successful in stopping the rise of far-right hooligans taking over the terraces. Get rid of the ultras, and those people will take their place

[ABZHFC]

https://www.dw.com/en/fear-on-the-yellow-wall-borussia-dortmund-ultras-threatened-by-right-wing-hooligans/a-46364501

A good article that highlights the importance of ultras across Germany in tackling racism in football stadiums

[Keith_M]

Should they have put the banners up? Probably not. Should the game be stopped as a result? Of course not, absolutely absurd. And like I say, just bear it in mind next time a black player gets racially abused and tries to walk off the park.

Read up on the struggles between ultras and boards in Germany at the moment, this is a pivotal moment and (sadly) greed is winning. These ultras are anti-racist, anti-homophobia, anti-fascists campaigners who are being silenced by the German FA because they hate their game being ruined by money


I actually think that the walk off was over the top as well. I also agree about not walking off when players are racially (or religiously) abused is wrong.

However, you did actually praise them taking action, and the action in question was a horrible banner.

I think modern football does have it's downsides but they need to find a more acceptable way to protest against it.



However, considering we're talking about Bayern here....


:kettle:

[Keith_M]

Union's ultras lean left and are most definitely anti-racist, the vast majority of ultras' groups in Germany hold banners supporting anti-discrimination causes. And they are the buffer that has been successful in stopping the rise of far-right hooligans taking over the terraces. Get rid of the ultras, and those people will take their place


Sorry, but saying Ultras in Germany are preventing the growth of the far-right merely displays a lack of knowledge of German Ultras.

Have you heard of Chemitz? Dynamo Dresden?

[ABZHFC]

I actually think that the walk off was over the top as well. I also agree about not walking off when players are racially (or religiously) abused is wrong.

However, you did actually praise them taking action, and the action in question was a horrible banner.

I think modern football does have it's downsides but they need to find a more acceptable way to protest against it.



However, considering we're talking about Bayern here....


:kettle:

The banner is about a 79 year-old billionaire, calling his (presumably long, long dead) mother a whore. Now I accept, that the banner is not in good taste, and I can understand why the German FA would take action against it in terms of fines or whatever. But what this comes down to, at its crux, is the football authorities deliberately and cynically misusing anti-racism protocol to protect the feelings of one of their main financial supporters.

I guess why I get so frustrated with it all is that you then get endless media coverage (who are all part of the same modern football machine that the fans are protesting against) saying 'it's the right thing to do' and sticking up for said billionaire

[ABZHFC]

Sorry, but saying Ultras in Germany are preventing the growth of the far-right merely displays a lack of knowledge of German Ultras.

Have you heard of Chemitz? Dynamo Dresden?

I should have been more clear in stressing when I said 'the vast majority', there are obviously exceptions to this. But your big clubs, Bayern, Dortmund etc. are undoubtedly vocally stronger against racism because of their ultras, and I fear the inevitable crackdown that will happen against them will result in a vacuum that gets filled by the far-right

[Keith_M]

I should have been more clear in stressing when I said 'the vast majority', there are obviously exceptions to this. But your big clubs, Bayern, Dortmund etc. are undoubtedly vocally stronger against racism because of their ultras, and I fear the inevitable crackdown that will happen against them will result in a vacuum that gets filled by the far-right


Fair enough, sorry if I got a bit too argumentative

:aok:

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Seriously?

Claiming that it's OK to publicly abuse an old man by calling him Son Of A Whore says a lot more about you than it does him.

I never thought I'd write this, but.... well done Bayern.

Fair number of folk, including myself, laughed when morelos' mum was called a mattress. Does being old make you immune from being a prick and a hated figure. Folk hate trump and I'm pretty sure not a lot of folk had a lot of love for Hitler.

[Keith_M]

Fair number of folk, including myself, laughed when morelos' mum was called a mattress. Does being old make you immune from being a prick and a hated figure. Folk hate trump and I'm pretty sure not a lot of folk had a lot of love for Hitler.


Leaving aside the absolutely ridiculous comparisons....


Could you help us by explaining what crime he committed that makes such personal abuse acceptable?

I genuinely am unaware of him doing something really awful, so this is a real question.

[BegbieHSC]

German ultras were amongst the first working class collectives in Europe to voice their support for welcoming refugees during the crisis. Not long after, Germany opened their doors, and very rightly aided.

Right wing populism has grown amongst the working classes, and certain ultras groups elsewhere. German ultras however by and large have resisted this, and continue to support more left leaning causes.

Sure, Bayern fans were out of order aggressively targeting an old man who has done a lot of good out with football (especially for cancer research.) But their cause in ensuring that German football continues to be run by fans, and not billionaires is a just one.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Leaving aside the absolutely ridiculous comparisons....


Could you help us by explaining what crime he committed that makes such personal abuse acceptable?

I genuinely am unaware of him doing something really awful, so this is a real question.

It was bit of humour about people hating old folk (that actually works both ways. Trump and Hitler hate people. People hate trump and Hitler). I find the reaction by players and bayern a bit ott. The guy seems to have chucked a **** ton of money at the club while chucking a **** ton of money at the league. Seems too much of vested interest. Red Bull are despised for trying to do the exact same thing

[660]

Leaving aside the absolutely ridiculous comparisons....


Could you help us by explaining what crime he committed that makes such personal abuse acceptable?

I genuinely am unaware of him doing something really awful, so this is a real question.

He had microphones and cameras installed to catch fans singing songs about him then sued them for months’ worth of wages. So fans have to pay 2-3 months wages to a billionaire because they sang a song about his mum.

[Hibrandenburg]

Union's ultras lean left and are most definitely anti-racist, the vast majority of ultras' groups in Germany hold banners supporting anti-discrimination causes. And they are the buffer that has been successful in stopping the rise of far-right hooligans taking over the terraces. Get rid of the ultras, and those people will take their place

Might have been the case previously but what I saw a few weeks back told a different story. Union's fans that travelled to Bremen a few weeks ago were heaving with right wing bampots. I live in the former east and most of the locals follow Union as opposed to Hertha and our local radges are mostly of the red persuasion.

[Hibrandenburg]

It was bit of humour about people hating old folk (that actually works both ways. Trump and Hitler hate people. People hate trump and Hitler). I find the reaction by players and bayern a bit ott. The guy seems to have chucked a **** ton of money at the club while chucking a **** ton of money at the league. Seems too much of vested interest. Red Bull are despised for trying to do the exact same thing

I guess the irony of Bayern Munich fans protesting about money ruining the game is lost on many of them.

[ABZHFC]

Might have been the case previously but what I saw a few weeks back told a different story. Union's fans that travelled to Bremen a few weeks ago were heaving with right wing bampots. I live in the former east and most of the locals follow Union as opposed to Hertha and our local radges are mostly of the red persuasion.

Fair enough mate, you’ll know more than I will about that

[McD]

Good on their ultras, anyone who does even an ounce of research on Hoffenheim and German football would know why Hopp is so hated. He has tried to get Dortmund fans prosecuted for chants about him, an egomaniac of a man who the German FA protect at all costs because his company, SAP, are one of their main sponsors.

This is a clash between modern football and genuine fans, not between civility and disgrace, as the media are trying to make out.

And of course, most depressing of all, we know now that most footballers are more willing to walk off the pitch in support of an old billionaire being called a 'son of a whore' than they are their black team-mate getting racially abused


most footballers? It’s one match, 22 players (maximum 36 if we’re including the subs too). A bit of hyperbole and sweeping generalisation to say “most footballers”

[Keith_M]

He had microphones and cameras installed to catch fans singing songs about him then sued them for months’ worth of wages. So fans have to pay 2-3 months wages to a billionaire because they sang a song about his mum.


Cheers.

[Keith_M]

I guess the irony of Bayern Munich fans protesting about money ruining the game is lost on many of them.


:agree:


FC Hollywood.


Scheiss Bayern!

[norwayhibs]

Isn`t Hopps company one of the german football federations biggest sponsor, stop a match for insulting a club owner but didnt do anything a few weeks earlier when a Hertha player was racially abused from the stands. From what I have read about this conflict, Hopp is just the face of the arguement against the football federation. They have gone back on their word regarding collective punishment to fans, borussia dortmund supporters( all of them) have been banned from attending their away game v Hoffenheim for 2 seasons because of the ultras gripe with Hopp/ dfb and the 50+1 club ownership model.

Found this link today , Bayern ultras response to the outcry
https://www.dw.com/en/bayern-munich-fans-react-to-protests-against-hopp/a-52599616

[PeeJay]

Leaving aside the absolutely ridiculous comparisons....


Could you help us by explaining what crime he committed that makes such personal abuse acceptable?

I genuinely am unaware of him doing something really awful, so this is a real question.

Hopp "allegedly" had a high-frequency device installed in the BVB fan section that played over the speakers when Dortmund played Hoffenheim that caused several fans to suffer pain. This was his method of retaliating to attacks on his person, i.e calling him a Hurensohn - "son of a bitch"! This is an ongoing "thing" that has escalated out of control IMO - seems to me lots of people get called a lot worse than SoB at football matches up and down this country (Germany) and elsewhere - Bayern's manager Ulli Hoeness had to suffer a lot more abuse and for a much lengthier period than Hopp, but that's OK as he is at Bayern München, I guess?

[Keith_M]

Hopp "allegedly" had a high-frequency device installed in the BVB fan section that played over the speakers when Dortmund played Hoffenheim that caused several fans to suffer pain. This was his method of retaliating to attacks on his person, i.e calling him a Hurensohn - "son of a bitch"! This is an ongoing "thing" that has escalated out of control IMO - seems to me lots of people get called a lot worse than SoB at football matches up and down this country (Germany) and elsewhere - Bayern's manager Ulli Hoeness had to suffer a lot more abuse and for a much lengthier period than Hopp, but that's OK as he is at Bayern München, I guess?


Is that a rhetorical question?



:greengrin

[hibsdaft]

If Wikipedia is right about his father, the Bayern banner was probably spot on.

[eastcoasthibby]

Great to have such a collective response ...it's working because the big and main teams are supporting it ..no chance off it happening in Scotland cos it's the big two teams that are the cause of it ....unity in German leagues and unity between the Glasgow pair, SFA and SPFL about doing nothing !!