FF Lower Singing

[Mick O'Rourke]

The Albion Road End. (The Cave as it became known)
Now known as The Famous Five Stand.

"Opponents lose all hope when we get them down the slope" was as much to do with the noise from the Cave choir, as it was "the slope"

The Cave was the domain of the Hibs choir back in mid 60s into the 70s.

Opposing supporters would try to take over the central part of the Cave ,which of course led to battles.
No segregation back then.

Eventually The Cave was seated and fenced off at the corner flag .
The prices in there also increased .
The Cave Choir dispersed .


The FFL ,is for me, the natural place for a choir (singing section)
I hope all concerned ,Club officials,existing STs in there ,can find a way to accommodate both groups

[HibeeHibernian4]

The consensus from those in the East was that they could actually hear Since1875, so the answer is yes. My point though is that galvanising effect could also be achieved (possibly more easily) if they were in the East.

There is a tendency to assume that the FFL is the only acceptable solution when that is not the case.

Sorry I should have made myself clearer. What I mean is that the FF Lower has the unique advantage of getting all sides of the ground involved if they wish. I sat in the West sometimes in the old days of Section 43 and even the old East Stand, and it didn’t always carry so well across. The FF Lower gets everyone involved without containing singing just to the East Stand.

[ABZHFC]

Did you, or someone else, not say that the club had approved the move on Friday and had warned those sitting in blocks 19 and 20 that would be affected?

Are you saying that the move at half time on Friday was not sanctioned by the club? If that is the case then the group have really burned their bridges as far moving to a new, better, location is concerned.

FWIW I thought it was better in the second half, but any move has to be agreed with everyone concerned, the singers, the club, those already in the area that they are being allowed to move to by the club.

Does it *have* to be agreed? We seem to go back and forth between these points. Some ask Since1875 “why not go anywhere else in the ground and stand and sing for 90 minutes?”, while others say “you can’t move to other parts of the ground without permission”

It seems like this part of the problem, no is one particularly sure what the section can or cannot do. I imagine the club won’t be best pleased that they moved seats at half-time, but my point is simply who cares? It didn’t affect anyone in a negative way, and almost everyone agrees that the atmosphere was improved as a result. It won’t happen in league games, it was just a one-off for an important cup tie.

If it does lead to the club burning bridges, then I’d say that reflects far, far worse on those on the board than Since1875. But like I’ve said, I’m sure it won’t lead to anything, and I reckon (privately) the club were happier with the atmosphere on Friday night

[Phil MaGlass]

Now that it is seen to have worked you can almost guarantee the singing section will be behind the goals next season, absolutely no doubt in my mind.
The section I believe will only grow now.

[Barney McGrew]

Now that it is seen to have worked you can almost guarantee the singing section will be behind the goals next season, absolutely no doubt in my mind.

Given that the season ticket launch for next season is imminent, and all the point of sale will have already been printed, I think you can pretty much guarantee nothing will change for league games next season.

[ABZHFC]

Did you, or someone else, not say that the club had approved the move on Friday and had warned those sitting in blocks 19 and 20 that would be affected?

Are you saying that the move at half time on Friday was not sanctioned by the club? If that is the case then the group have really burned their bridges as far moving to a new, better, location is concerned.

FWIW I thought it was better in the second half, but any move has to be agreed with everyone concerned, the singers, the club, those already in the area that they are being allowed to move to by the club.

Does it *have* to be agreed? We seem to go back and forth between these points. Some ask Since1875 “why not go anywhere else in the ground and stand and sing for 90 minutes?”, while others say “you can’t move to other parts of the ground without permission”

It seems like this part of the problem, no is one particularly sure what the section can or cannot do. I imagine the club won’t be best pleased that they moved seats at half-time, but my point is simply who cares? It didn’t affect anyone in a negative way, and almost everyone agrees that the atmosphere was improved as a result. It won’t happen in league games, it was just a one-off for an important cup tie.

If it does lead to the club burning bridges, then I’d say that reflects far, far worse on those on the board than Since1875. But like I’ve said, I’m sure it won’t lead to anything, and I reckon (privately) the club were happier with the atmosphere on Friday night

[Hibeewilly]

If the Club dont acknowledge the vast improvement in the atmosphere in the second half against Caley there is something far wrong. It was an amazing turnaround. Well done guys.....lets hope someone at the Club takes notice. That FFL as it stands looks crap on TV

[Chuck Rhoades]

Aberdeen announce similar:

https://i.ibb.co/f1CNmPG/4-E941-EA6-1-C79-483-C-AA39-9-B94-EC9-A6148.jpg (https://ibb.co/0Df9PdV)

[Steven79]

Aberdeen announce similar:

https://i.ibb.co/f1CNmPG/4-E941-EA6-1-C79-483-C-AA39-9-B94-EC9-A6148.jpg (https://ibb.co/0Df9PdV)We should be doing the same...

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[SquashedFrogg]

If the Club dont acknowledge the vast improvement in the atmosphere in the second half against Caley there is something far wrong. It was an amazing turnaround. Well done guys.....lets hope someone at the Club takes notice. That FFL as it stands looks crap on TV

To be fair. I was at the ICT game and watched the highlights after. Would hardly say it was a 'vast' improvement. Stretching it slightly.

[Andy74]

Does it *have* to be agreed? We seem to go back and forth between these points. Some ask Since1875 “why not go anywhere else in the ground and stand and sing for 90 minutes?”, while others say “you can’t move to other parts of the ground without permission”

It seems like this part of the problem, no is one particularly sure what the section can or cannot do. I imagine the club won’t be best pleased that they moved seats at half-time, but my point is simply who cares? It didn’t affect anyone in a negative way, and almost everyone agrees that the atmosphere was improved as a result. It won’t happen in league games, it was just a one-off for an important cup tie.

If it does lead to the club burning bridges, then I’d say that reflects far, far worse on those on the board than Since1875. But like I’ve said, I’m sure it won’t lead to anything, and I reckon (privately) the club were happier with the atmosphere on Friday night

You realise the difference in moving in to empty seats that weren’t paid for to just moving into an area pretty much sold out to season ticket holders don’t you?

[Andy74]

Aberdeen announce similar:

https://i.ibb.co/f1CNmPG/4-E941-EA6-1-C79-483-C-AA39-9-B94-EC9-A6148.jpg (https://ibb.co/0Df9PdV)

What percentage of that area was sold to season ticket holders? Was it just a general area or a long standing family area?

Can’t say it is similar until we know a bit more about how it has been used.

[Montford]

I’d go the whole hog and put safe standing in both the FF lower and South lower..
it would recreate the atmosphere of old, and might increase the away support for clubs out with the OF who would want to be part of a vibrant end to end atmosphere
If Falkirk, Dunfermline, UTD etc were in the league imagine them having 2000 + in a safe standing behind the away goals.
The match day experience would be tremendous and noisy
The idea of safe standing in a modern stadium with good view would entice me to many more away games.. as opposed to sitting on cold wet plastic seats
The cost of implementing safe standing would pay for itself in increased attendance in the areas after a season or so

[Stuart93]

I’d go the whole hog and put safe standing in both the FF lower and South lower..
it would recreate the atmosphere of old, and might increase the away support for clubs out with the OF who would want to be part of a vibrant end to end atmosphere
If Falkirk, Dunfermline, UTD etc were in the league imagine them having 2000 + in a safe standing behind the away goals.
The match day experience would be tremendous and noisy
The idea of safe standing in a modern stadium with good view would entice me to many more away games.. as opposed to sitting on cold wet plastic seats
The cost of implementing safe standing would pay for itself in increased attendance in the areas after a season or so

I’d rather not have the away end come to easter road to have a good time and create a good atmosphere

I want any away supporters to absolutely hate coming to easter road and for the atmosphere in the away stand to be absolutely *****.

[davhibby]

What percentage of that area was sold to season ticket holders? Was it just a general area or a long standing family area?

Can’t say it is similar until we know a bit more about how it has been used.

It’s the family section, certainly been that way for a few years at least. So pretty much the exact same as at Hibs. Granted they have more spare capacity than us but they gave it a proper chance in the cup games and pushed it

[ABZHFC]

You realise the difference in moving in to empty seats that weren’t paid for to just moving into an area pretty much sold out to season ticket holders don’t you?

Yes, Andy, I do realise that, and I have stressed so many times on this thread that Friday night was a one-off and won't happen again this season. It was done to prove a point and Since1875 did that very well, and hopefully have given the club food for thought.

Otherwise we'd still be sitting here arguing about the hypotheticals of what it would sound like, now we know

[007]

It’s the family section, certainly been that way for a few years at least. So pretty much the exact same as at Hibs. Granted they have more spare capacity than us but they gave it a proper chance in the cup games and pushed it

They got over 2000 in there when trying it against Dumbarton.

https://www.afc.co.uk/2020/01/20/it-was-amazing-to-be-part-of-the-2000-supporters-in-the-merkland-stand/

[tamig]

Did you, or someone else, not say that the club had approved the move on Friday and had warned those sitting in blocks 19 and 20 that would be affected?

Are you saying that the move at half time on Friday was not sanctioned by the club? If that is the case then the group have really burned their bridges as far moving to a new, better, location is concerned.

FWIW I thought it was better in the second half, but any move has to be agreed with everyone concerned, the singers, the club, those already in the area that they are being allowed to move to by the club.

Re your first paragraph, I can confirm that the folk in those blocks had no prior communication from the club about any changes in the arrangements for Friday night.

[madhatter]

Did you, or someone else, not say that the club had approved the move on Friday and had warned those sitting in blocks 19 and 20 that would be affected?

Are you saying that the move at half time on Friday was not sanctioned by the club? If that is the case then the group have really burned their bridges as far moving to a new, better, location is concerned.

FWIW I thought it was better in the second half, but any move has to be agreed with everyone concerned, the singers, the club, those already in the area that they are being allowed to move to by the club.

My take on it is club need to be doing more to communicate and bring a fixed arrangement to this. Wherever the singing section is moved there will be people affected - asked to shift/forced to shift because singing section is placed in their normal place. Can talk about big screens, digital ribbons and producing match day experience etc. but having the singing section in the current location is ridiculous. Match days beyond derbies, Aberdeen or OF have virtually no atmosphere because the singing section is tucked away in a remote corner. I'm pretty sure the club are hoping our ST numbers increase based on the family appeal but based on the FF attendance on the night in question I think it would be foolish for the club to discount fans that attempt to create atmosphere. Taking a rough guess the FF must have the poorest attendance % across the season. Possibly a poor way of looking at it but why should fans in the East that turn up to 100% of the games be shifted to accommodate the singing section while the Famous Five has attendance of 70% or lower across the season but cannot be touched? That is a simplistic hypothetical stance (without accurate % figures) on it but at the end of the day unless we are leaving the singing section where it is then some groups will need to be shifted. Adding corners to the stadium would probably simplify this decision but would be a stupid move as we cannot fill the current stadium.

I hear what you are saying in the main with regards to the group moving without it being sanctioned. However, the club could also burn their bridges with the group. Imagine being told by the club that you cannot trial a move to the FF lower as there are people there etc. to then turn up and see that the section of the stadium spoken about is virtually empty. I also think that, while this is an exceptional case, football fans move away from their bought seat quite frequently without the approval of the club - groups wanting to sit together etc.

If club think we will get an American/Canadian style of venue where families turn up in droves then firstly I hope to see it but secondly I think they should base this ambition on the reality of sporadic attendance of FF stand. This isn't about the measure of a fan but to put a fan group that attempts to build atmosphere every other week so far down the pecking order is worrying for me. I lost out on my ST seat as I bought my ticket too late for the night, I bought a ticket for elsewhere. Singing section doesn't have that flexibility but it shouldn't be treated with "we've found a discreet corner to put you in, stay there until we say otherwise".

"Is this a library?!" from the away fans every other week while our attendances diminish could very well be a realistic future. Here's hoping a way forward is formulated as the prospect of gadgets at the stadium etc. will not get us to 16-17k STs in 5 years. As Ron hinted at, they need to invest to get our ST numbers up, for me this problem should be part of that investment - spend time to discuss this with groups and get something agreed.

[makaveli1875]

Yes, Andy, I do realise that, and I have stressed so many times on this thread that Friday night was a one-off and won't happen again this season. It was done to prove a point and Since1875 did that very well, and hopefully have given the club food for thought.

Otherwise we'd still be sitting here arguing about the hypotheticals of what it would sound like, now we know

It sounded much better and just as important it looked 100 times better

[BoomtownHibees]

Did you, or someone else, not say that the club had approved the move on Friday and had warned those sitting in blocks 19 and 20 that would be affected?

I’m positive I read this on here about Friday night as well but now it’s a case of “does it have to be agreed” and “who cares” etc.

I’m all for the move, 100%, however surely the best way to go about it is working with the club, not just doing whatever the group pleases at the risk of isolating themselves even more?

[Moulin Yarns]

Tell you something that really gets on my threepennies is folk who can't correct the word SIGNING to SINGING. 🙄

[hibby67]

Tell you something that really gets on my threepennies is folk who can't correct the word SIGNING to SINGING. 🙄

Maybe its for people that are deaf and they are sign singing :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Maybe its for people that are deaf and they are sign singing :greengrin

On reflection, they are as well signing for all you can hear them in other parts of the ground.😁

[Eyrie]

I’m positive I read this on here about Friday night as well but now it’s a case of “does it have to be agreed” and “who cares” etc.

I’m all for the move, 100%, however surely the best way to go about it is working with the club, not just doing whatever the group pleases at the risk of isolating themselves even more?

And part of that working together will be Since 1875 having various suggestions on how best to look after the people who already have tickets for where they want to be before any move can be agreed.

[madhatter]

Tell you something that really gets on my threepennies is folk who can't correct the word SIGNING to SINGING. 🙄

Sorry, I thought this was a thread about the signing section...

I've fixed my persistent typo - I blame it on typing dyslexia. One of those odd things where you can spell the word perfectly fine on paper but as soon as you type it all sorts comes out and sadly on a consistent basis. I was on a roll with it anyway.

[Moulin Yarns]

Sorry, I thought this was a thread about the signing section...

I've fixed my persistent typo - I blame it on typing dyslexia. One of those odd things where you can spell the word perfectly fine on paper but as soon as you type it all sorts comes out and sadly on a consistent basis. I was on a roll with it anyway.

No worries, it's not just you, it's prevalent on posts about the choir 😉. See what I did there 😁

[GreenCastle]

Plenty of gaps again in FF lower.

Sooner this gets sorted the better.

What was going on with entry to the stadium also...could have easily been a crush getting into the East.

Also wish the club would stop away fans taking the piss in the South - huns and mini huns over crowding certain areas. They need to block off first 3 rows and stop folk standing down the front.

[Onceinawhile]

Plenty of gaps again in FF lower.

Sooner this gets sorted the better.

What was going on with entry to the stadium also...could have easily been a crush getting into the East.

Also wish the club would stop away fans taking the piss in the South - huns and mini huns over crowding certain areas. They need to block off first 3 rows and stop folk standing down the front.

Can't speak for the East, but the FFL turnstyles are not working at all.

When you scan a ticket it says, "declined", "go" or just beeps. Regardless of what happens you can push through.

[Steven79]

Can't speak for the East, but the FFL turnstyles are not working at all.

When you scan a ticket it says, "declined", "go" or just beeps. Regardless of what happens you can push through.That happened to me on Friday as well.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Fort William FC have actually found the ideal solution for both the singing section and family section. 😁

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51765472

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Can't speak for the East, but the FFL turnstyles are not working at all.

When you scan a ticket it says, "declined", "go" or just beeps. Regardless of what happens you can push through.

It wasn't the turnstyles from what i saw - it was the stupid bottleneck fencing the stewards/police are putting up to filter the fans into the East.

It looks like the stewards were searching every fan and causing a large crowd to build at the back. It was an accident waiting to happen, really dangerous policing.

[SquashedFrogg]

It wasn't the turnstyles from what i saw - it was the stupid bottleneck fencing the stewards/police are putting up to filter the fans into the East.

It looks like the stewards were searching every fan and causing a large crowd to build at the back. It was an accident waiting to happen, really dangerous policing.

How was it dangerous? A slight inconvenience but hardly dangerous.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

How was it dangerous? A slight inconvenience hardly dangerous.It was potentially dangerous. I lost my 14 y/o son in the crowd temporarily and just shouted for him to keep walking. All it would have taken was for someone to trip in the middle of it. As another poster alluded to it could easily have turned into a crush.

[SquashedFrogg]

It was potentially dangerous. I lost my 14 y/o son in the crowd temporarily and just shouted for him to keep walking. All it would have taken was for someone to trip in the middle of it. As another poster alluded to it could easily have turned into a crush.

It was busy but in not sure there would have been a crush. If getting searched stops ********s bringing bottles into the big games then I'm all for it.

I think there's a slight over reaction around this. I'm guessing from people who can't remember the old terracing.

[GreenCastle]

It was busy but in not sure there would have been a crush. If getting searched stops ********s bringing bottles into the big games then I'm all for it.

I think there's a slight over reaction around this. I'm guessing from people who can't remember the old terracing.

But we have moved on from the old terracing.

It was poorly organised. No information - just lots of people.

No male / female stewards lines.

Add in the poor lighting and wasn’t great - wasn’t even searched either so really not sure the point of it all. Either search everyone or not at all.

[NAE NOOKIE]

But we have moved on from the old terracing.

It was poorly organised. No information - just lots of people.

No male / female stewards lines.

Add in the poor lighting and wasn’t great - wasn’t even searched either so really not sure the point of it all. Either search everyone or not at all.

In which case I suggest folk get to Hampden in plenty of time because if I recall correctly the last time we played Hertz there in a semi there was two rows of coppers to negotiate before you even got to the turnstiles :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

But we have moved on from the old terracing.

It was poorly organised. No information - just lots of people.

No male / female stewards lines.

Add in the poor lighting and wasn’t great - wasn’t even searched either so really not sure the point of it all. Either search everyone or not at all.


:agree:
Didn't think i was ever in danger, but it did seem a bit unnecessary, as neither of us were searched?

[Skol]

I found 2 problems on Tuesday at the East:

1) The Q I was in had everyone being searched and it took ages. A wee grumpy guy behind me was pushing right up and shoving and moaning.
2) The Q to my left was waving 80% through with no checks adding to the noise and due to barriers there was no way to divert to the free moving Q

Oh and a third. The male steward could only check men and the female steward couldnt check men and was standing waiting for people to check