Famous Five Lower update - Since 1875

[Since1875Hibs]

Unfortunately after an original agreement was put in place we have been advised by the club they can not facilitate a move into the famous five lower for this Fridays Scottish Cup quarter final against Inverness.

We contacted the club through safety officer Alan Marshall and fans rep Kieran Power directly after the quarter final draw to request this. A meeting was arranged for Friday 21/02 however this was cancelled by the club at the last minute. After drawn out communications we finally got the go ahead on Saturday 22/02 and were advised to contact the ticket office to make arrangements. Due to the current ticket policy in place ticket office staff advised to take the matter back to the club.

Due to complications updating the ticket system and complaints from other fans in this area we have this afternoon been advised that this will not be going ahead.

Since1875 are extremely disappointed that despite going through the correct channels in plenty of time the club are unable to assist us in creating a better atmosphere for a defining game in our season. It is with regret that the players will be faced with an empty, silent famous 5 lower in the second half as we try to push the team on to the semi final.

[Since452]

Really disappointing

[gando]

Expected nothing less.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Puts the record straight at least.

[mentalhibee]

Get back in the east, you guys do a great job trying to create atmosphere but it doesn’t work in the current location. Something needs to change as the atmosphere has been terrible for a couple of seasons now.

[hibbysam]

Unfortunately after an original agreement was put in place we have been advised by the club they can not facilitate a move into the famous five lower for this Fridays Scottish Cup quarter final against Inverness.

We contacted the club through safety officer Alan Marshall and fans rep Kieran Power directly after the quarter final draw to request this. A meeting was arranged for Friday 21/02 however this was cancelled by the club at the last minute. After drawn out communications we finally got the go ahead on Saturday 22/02 and were advised to contact the ticket office to make arrangements. Due to the current ticket policy in place ticket office staff advised to take the matter back to the club.

Due to complications updating the ticket system and complaints from other fans in this area we have this afternoon been advised that this will not be going ahead.

Since1875 are extremely disappointed that despite going through the correct channels in plenty of time the club are unable to assist us in creating a better atmosphere for a defining game in our season. It is with regret that the players will be faced with an empty, silent famous 5 lower in the second half as we try to push the team on to the semi final.

Piss up and brewery.

[B.H.F.C]

I’d usually say there is two sides to every story but, in this case, the club don’t really care IMO.

[EHZERO7]

Poor stuff. Over the last few seasons the club has made progress in a number of things but imo not addressing the lack of atmosphere at games and trying to do something to improve it isn’t one of them

[Hibeesmad]

At least those who complained can watch the game in peace.

[Hibs3-2]

Ridiculous from the club. Shambles.

[h1bs4life]

Unfortunately after an original agreement was put in place we have been advised by the club they can not facilitate a move into the famous five lower for this Fridays Scottish Cup quarter final against Inverness.

We contacted the club through safety officer Alan Marshall and fans rep Kieran Power directly after the quarter final draw to request this. A meeting was arranged for Friday 21/02 however this was cancelled by the club at the last minute. After drawn out communications we finally got the go ahead on Saturday 22/02 and were advised to contact the ticket office to make arrangements. Due to the current ticket policy in place ticket office staff advised to take the matter back to the club.

Due to complications updating the ticket system and complaints from other fans in this area we have this afternoon been advised that this will not be going ahead.

Since1875 are extremely disappointed that despite going through the correct channels in plenty of time the club are unable to assist us in creating a better atmosphere for a defining game in our season. It is with regret that the players will be faced with an empty, silent famous 5 lower in the second half as we try to push the team on to the semi final.

Think you guys do a good job trying to stir up a bit of an atmosphere.
Can I ask why you guys left the East where there seemed to be a decent atmosphere and why you didn't try to move back to the East beside the away fans for this game.

[hibeerealist]

Unfortunately after an original agreement was put in place we have been advised by the club they can not facilitate a move into the famous five lower for this Fridays Scottish Cup quarter final against Inverness.

We contacted the club through safety officer Alan Marshall and fans rep Kieran Power directly after the quarter final draw to request this. A meeting was arranged for Friday 21/02 however this was cancelled by the club at the last minute. After drawn out communications we finally got the go ahead on Saturday 22/02 and were advised to contact the ticket office to make arrangements. Due to the current ticket policy in place ticket office staff advised to take the matter back to the club.

Due to complications updating the ticket system and complaints from other fans in this area we have this afternoon been advised that this will not be going ahead.

Since1875 are extremely disappointed that despite going through the correct channels in plenty of time the club are unable to assist us in creating a better atmosphere for a defining game in our season. It is with regret that the players will be faced with an empty, silent famous 5 lower in the second half as we try to push the team on to the semi final.

Actually not such surprise given HFC and their previous!!

This was something that a lot of fans, silent majority, would like to see resolved and improve the atmosphere which evidently appears to be way down the list of "Things to do" at ER.

In my dealings with HFC on a couple of occasions relating to access/egress from East / South it was always The Security blame HFC and HFC blame security with none taking any responsibility - Security have no responsibility to me it is HFC and at each turn they disappear into thin air, problem solved.

I am interested to hear from any of those ST who complained and hear why they did so, we might understand things a bit better but I'll no hud my breath!!

[RoYO!]

Atmosphere has been truly dire for large portions of most games. Something needs to give. I would move the family section to the corner sections of the FF Lower towards the West. And the new singing section directly behind the goal/ towards the East.

I'd also move away fans to the upper tier of the south.

The team winning is quite simply the main thing. Are we as a club doing all we can to make sure this happens in this regard? No chance.

[Hibs90]

Someone needs to be asking about this sort of stuff at the AGM

[Peevemor]

Unfortunately after an original agreement was put in place we have been advised by the club they can not facilitate a move into the famous five lower for this Fridays Scottish Cup quarter final against Inverness.

We contacted the club through safety officer Alan Marshall and fans rep Kieran Power directly after the quarter final draw to request this. A meeting was arranged for Friday 21/02 however this was cancelled by the club at the last minute. After drawn out communications we finally got the go ahead on Saturday 22/02 and were advised to contact the ticket office to make arrangements. Due to the current ticket policy in place ticket office staff advised to take the matter back to the club.

Due to complications updating the ticket system and complaints from other fans in this area we have this afternoon been advised that this will not be going ahead.

Since1875 are extremely disappointed that despite going through the correct channels in plenty of time the club are unable to assist us in creating a better atmosphere for a defining game in our season. It is with regret that the players will be faced with an empty, silent famous 5 lower in the second half as we try to push the team on to the semi final.Well done mate! For a super fan you've done a great job turning folk against the club.

You still haven't said what agreement the club have gone back on. It looks to me like a meeting was cancelled when it was too late to change anything anyway.

Keep up the good work! [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122]

[hibeerealist]

Piss up and brewery.

??? The guys appear to have gone through the channels and tried to get things done, your comment is harsh.

[Brightside]

So that end will be empty again. Shambles.

[hibeerealist]

At least those who complained can watch the game in peace.

Aye and have five seats each!!!!

[BoomtownHibees]

Well done mate! For a super fan you've done a great job turning folk against the club.

You still haven't said what agreement the club have gone back on. It looks to me like a meeting was cancelled when it was too late to change anything anyway.

Keep up the good work! [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122]

The poster states that they were given the go-ahead by the club and to take it to the ticket office. The option was then withdrawn due to being unable to change the ticketing policy as well as some complaints from other fans. Surely you read that though?

[Hibs90]

Well done mate! For a super fan you've done a great job turning folk against the club.

You still haven't said what agreement the club have gone back on. It looks to me like a meeting was cancelled when it was too late to change anything anyway.

Keep up the good work! [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122]

Nah, it looks like to me someone at the club gave them the go ahead on Saturday 22nd.

Super fan etc? What a poor post from you.

[hibbysam]

??? The guys appear to have gone through the channels and tried to get things done, your comment is harsh.

It was aimed at the club.

[Iggy Pope]

Well done mate! For a super fan you've done a great job turning folk against the club.

You still haven't said what agreement the club have gone back on. It looks to me like a meeting was cancelled when it was too late to change anything anyway.

Keep up the good work! [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122]

The post appears pretty factual and states an agreement was in place. Poor response from you here.

[Peevemor]

The poster states that they were given the go-ahead by the club and to take it to the ticket office. The option was then withdrawn due to being unable to change the ticketing system as well as some complaints from other fans. Surely you read that though?After the family section ST holders had already bought their seats, therefore it was already too late.

[Scouse Hibee]

Sounds to me like this was never going to be possible, there had to be something in place before the ST holders were able to purchase their own seats otherwise it was doomed to fail. Who ever gave the initial agreement (who was it?) had no idea of the situation it seems.

[jakedance]

Get back in the east, you guys do a great job trying to create atmosphere but it doesn’t work in the current location. Something needs to change as the atmosphere has been terrible for a couple of seasons now.

Spot on.

[Peevemor]

The post appears pretty factual and states an agreement was in place. Poor response from you here.Sorry I don't believe there was ever an agreement, now the OP is blaming the club and some of the usual suspects seem happy to jump on the bandwagon.

Poor show from the OP IMO.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Well done mate! For a super fan you've done a great job turning folk against the club.

You still haven't said what agreement the club have gone back on. It looks to me like a meeting was cancelled when it was too late to change anything anyway.

Keep up the good work! [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122]

You’re really working overtime as the club’s one-man fire brigade right now aren’t you?

[Iggy Pope]

After the family section ST holders had already bought their seats, therefore it was already too late.

The club giving them the go ahead and retracting (if so) is up there with arranging Hall of Fame dinners on Scottish Cup weekend.

[Robbo6-2]

The east should be the right place fir the signing section.

FFL is better than the ridiculous position its in just now

[BoomtownHibees]

After the family section ST holders had already bought their seats, therefore it was already too late.

I’m not disagreeing with that point however that’s nothing to do with the arsey response you gave though

[DaveF]

The club gave the go ahead but the ticket office referred you back to the club? Not exactly smooth communication and does not paint the club in a good light.

I never, ever thought the club gave a flying one for HSL and it seems 1875 are getting the same treatment.

[Iggy Pope]

Sorry I don't believe there was ever an agreement, now the OP is blaming the club and some of the usual suspects seem happy to jump on the bandwagon.

Poor show from the OP IMO.

You don’t believe the poster? He’s gone out on a limb then and is the main point of call on all things singing section. That’s some call.
I think you’ve a ticket for the bandwagon mind.

[Peevemor]

I’m not disagreeing with that point however that’s nothing to do with the arsey response you gave thoughI don't see the point in another anti club thread.

Sorry if that's being arsey.

[BroxburnHibee]

That's twice now this group has tried to do something in the FF lower and its went **** up!

I doubt the club is trying to deliberately annoy you all so maybe a bit retrospection is required on however this so called 'shambles' transpired.

Given what happened last time I suspect someone has jumped the gun a bit.

[BlackSheep]

Sorry I don't believe there was ever an agreement, now the OP is blaming the club and some of the usual suspects seem happy to jump on the bandwagon.

Poor show from the OP IMO.

I don’t think it’s fair to be stating that you don’t believe an agreement was ever in place... I’m going to hazard a guess and say you must have been one of the miserable few who complained??

[Hibs90]

Sorry I don't believe there was ever an agreement, now the OP is blaming the club and some of the usual suspects seem happy to jump on the bandwagon.

Poor show from the OP IMO.


You're at it.

[Peevemor]

You don’t believe the poster? He’s gone out on a limb then and is the main point of call on all things singing section. That’s some call.
I think you’ve a ticket for the bandwagon mind.I don't believe the club agreed to move the singing section to the FF lower with existing ST holders having bought their seats, no.

[Johnny Clash]

Well done mate! For a super fan you've done a great job turning folk against the club.

You still haven't said what agreement the club have gone back on. It looks to me like a meeting was cancelled when it was too late to change anything anyway.

Keep up the good work! [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122]

What a ridiculous response. Nobody’s been turned against the club like you claim. Permission was given for this positive initiative for it to be then withdrawn which is pretty shoddy. I’ve got nowt to do with ‘since 1875’ but I appreciate their efforts. Hopefully our two reps on the board will intervene here.

[BoomtownHibees]

I don't see the point in another anti club thread.

Sorry if that's being arsey.

It’s not really “anti-club” though is it. The OP was stating what has actually happened but for some reason you don’t believe them

[Peevemor]

I don’t think it’s fair to be stating that you don’t believe an agreement was ever in place... I’m going to hazard a guess and say you must have been one of the miserable few who complained??No.

[BlackSheep]

I don't believe the club agreed to move the singing section to the FF lower with existing ST holders having bought their seats, no.

It’s likely that the club would have agreed after seeing how few ST holders had actually taken up their seats in the section that was to be the trial section. Says enough really. The emptiness of the FF lower is a joke.

[BroxburnHibee]

I'm enjoying all these posters whose autocorrect is changing singing to signing though :tee hee:

[BlackSheep]

No.

Do you sit in the FF lower?

[ABZHFC]

Well done mate! For a super fan you've done a great job turning folk against the club.

You still haven't said what agreement the club have gone back on. It looks to me like a meeting was cancelled when it was too late to change anything anyway.

Keep up the good work! [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122]

And you wonder why I said your posts were embarrassing on the other thread?

[HibeeHibernian4]

I don't see the point in another anti club thread.

Sorry if that's being arsey.

What if Peevemor, the club isn’t always right or good? And they need to be taken to task on things, otherwise they get away with robbing us blind with zero accountability?

[Peevemor]

Do you sit in the FF lower?No.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Reading between the lines perhaps the agreement and direction fell foul of the ticketing system setup for the game?

Tricky having a ticketing policy in place then creating an exemption (was that after ticket sales had commenced?)

Summit needs done. I can empathise with both sides - if you’re an ST with a kid and intending turning up in your usual with your little ones probably don’t intent be in the centre of a Hibees bounce and kids unable to see with everyone standing? By the same token seeing empty seats is a sickener and seems like an obvious time to trial something (but maybe needs to be understood at the start of the season rather than mid?)

[HFC_NYC]

Apologies if this has been answered before, but why can't the family section be in the FF Upper, allowing the singing section and more vocal supporters to fill the FF Lower?

[Peevemor]

And you wonder why I said your posts were embarrassing on the other thread?You should know all about embarrassment.

[Iggy Pope]

No.

What stand do you sit in?

[Peevemor]

What stand do you sit in?I don't. I live in France.

[Iggy Pope]

I don't. I live in France.

I see. Wouldn’t the discussions on the atmosphere or lack of it, and the attempts made by some groups to do something about be best left to them then? Don’t take offence at that, it just seems your pretty vociferous on the subject for one so far removed.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I don't. I live in France.

Do you think you’re very qualified to talk about this particular issue then?

[BoomtownHibees]

I don't. I live in France.

Brilliant

[Skol]

I would like to hear the clubs view on this so we have both perspectives and maybe even the fans rep as well.

Ultimately I think the right outcome has been achieved as this was always a bad idea after people had bought tickets in that area.

[Peevemor]

What if Peevemor, the club isn’t always right or good? And they need to be taken to task on things, otherwise they get away with robbing us blind with zero accountability?I believe that the club is run by good, honest people.

I believe the statements they make.

There's been some stuff that I don't really agree with (eg. scrapping loyalty points), but in general I have faith in the club's integrity.

I also think that having supporters' reps in the boardroom provides a saveguard.

[hibbyfraelibby]

The club gave the go ahead but the ticket office referred you back to the club? Not exactly smooth communication and does not paint the club in a good light.

I never, ever thought the club gave a flying one for HSL and it seems 1875 are getting the same treatment.

Strange that the club gave "permission" but didn't facilitate the change to the ticketing system but told you to go and do it directly with the Ticket Office which is part of the club.

Secondly the issue of complaints about the move from supporters who had no knowledge of such a move as there had been no announcement of it is strange. Perhaps your planscwere leaked before actual firm agreement on the possibility contributed to a pre-emotive reaction.

Given KPs response on the other thread earlier could now be explained in context of this latest clarification?

[Peevemor]

I see. Wouldn’t the discussions on the atmosphere or lack of it, and the attempts made by some groups to do something about be best left to them then? Don’t take offence at that, it just seems your pretty vociferous on the subject for one so far removed.I'm not debating the location of the singing section.

I'm sticking up for the club who are being criticised unfairly IMO.

[HibeeHibernian4]

People often talk about the atmosphere being better in the olden days and they’re no doubt right. But does it occur to them that a part of the reason that this is the case is that people who wanted to sing didn’t need to go cap in hand to the club asking for their permission to stand in a certain area of the ground? They just went and did it. Why should we be at the behest of the club, it’s as much ours as theirs and people should be able to organise where to stand wherever they like quite frankly.

[BlackSheep]

No.

When was the last home game you attended and where did you sit?

I sit in the east in section 40, from my seat you can barely hear the singing section... over the time that since1875 has been located in section 25 I have sat in a few other areas of the stadium, mostly the west upper during visits to hospitality and the difference in sound is night and day...

The physics of the sound waves is the trouble... the sound reflects off the side of the stand and reverbs over to the west and towards the south... the east gets a faint taste of the noise that Since1875 are making, this fans in the east are less encouraged to join in as it feel like you’re the only one singing! This is an atmosphere killer.

Lately a number of fans in the east have begun to rally and sing, and this has been great, but it’s counter productive when they sing one tune and the singing section sing a different tune.

If you have experienced the stadium from differing locations then you would realise that their is a problem.

[Hibs90]

I don't. I live in France.

:troll:

[Chuck Rhoades]

I don't. I live in France.

Couldn’t make it up.

[Bostonhibby]

I'm not debating the location of the singing section.

I'm sticking up for the club who are being criticised unfairly IMO.

Keep the faith, there's several ways to support your team, none of which are necessarily better than others over a lifetime.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[ABZHFC]

I don't. I live in France.

Hahahahaha fantastic

[Blaster]

People often talk about the atmosphere being better in the olden days and they’re no doubt right. But does it occur to them that a part of the reason that this is the case is that people who wanted to sing didn’t need to go cap in hand to the club asking for their permission to stand in a certain area of the ground? They just went and did it. Why should we be at the behest of the club, it’s as much ours as theirs and people should be able to organise where to stand wherever they like quite frankly.

I’m not sure your ‘us and them’ attitude is helping your cause

[Alex Trager]

I don't see the point in another anti club thread.

Sorry if that's being arsey.

It’s not an anti club thread. It’s an update on the situation.

A situation that has seen a large amount of discussion in the past few days.

If it seems anti club it’s because the club have made a complete arse of it, frankly.

[Peevemor]

Couldn’t make it up.So I'm not entitled to an opinion?

[Pretty Boy]

People often talk about the atmosphere being better in the olden days and they’re no doubt right. But does it occur to them that a part of the reason that this is the case is that people who wanted to sing didn’t need to go cap in hand to the club asking for their permission to stand in a certain area of the ground? They just went and did it. Why should we be at the behest of the club, it’s as much ours as theirs and people should be able to organise where to stand wherever they like quite frankly.

Maybe because the way football is watched has changed beyond recognition since the 70s and 80s. All seater stadia mean people have an expectation they can go to a game and watch from their allocated seat. A group of people simply marching into an area and deciding to stand there just isn't going to happen.

A couple of individuals have stated they 'don't care' about what impact their actions have on other fans. Fine, but I wouldn't be expecting much cooperation from those same fans when you try to forcefully move to another part of the ground. Maybe they 'don't care' that a tiny minority of the Hibs support want to try out various areas of the ground until they find somewhere they are happy with and expect everyone else just to do their bidding.

It's absolute idiocy to think such an approach will work and I hope the guys who act on behalf of the section give it a bit more though than a few on here have.

[Andy74]

People often talk about the atmosphere being better in the olden days and they’re no doubt right. But does it occur to them that a part of the reason that this is the case is that people who wanted to sing didn’t need to go cap in hand to the club asking for their permission to stand in a certain area of the ground? They just went and did it. Why should we be at the behest of the club, it’s as much ours as theirs and people should be able to organise where to stand wherever they like quite frankly.

It wasn’t just in the standing days.

Once they put seats in the terrace our group just got their seats next to each other under the gantry. Took no more than 2 or 3 of us at a time starting chants.

What’s wrong with this approach?

As I said maybe on the other thread - singing stuff people know helps. If you want a full stadium joining in then trying to get them to understand and join in with new songs every few weeks is not going to work.

[SquashedFrogg]

When was the last home game you attended and where did you sit?

I sit in the east in section 40, from my seat you can barely hear the singing section... over the time that since1875 has been located in section 25 I have sat in a few other areas of the stadium, mostly the west upper during visits to hospitality and the difference in sound is night and day...

The physics of the sound waves is the trouble... the sound reflects off the side of the stand and reverbs over to the west and towards the south... the east gets a faint taste of the noise that Since1875 are making, this fans in the east are less encouraged to join in as it feel like you’re the only one singing! This is an atmosphere killer.

Lately a number of fans in the east have begun to rally and sing, and this has been great, but it’s counter productive when they sing one tune and the singing section sing a different tune.

If you have experienced the stadium from differing locations then you would realise that their is a problem.

We're in S43 and virtually can't hear them at all. Not sure why they moved tbh. Their singing used to drift across thevrest of the East and was loud.

Seems a self inflicted issue.

[bod]

Maybe the singing section can get something organised for any pre season games at home . start conversation with the club now giving them plenty of time before they put tickets go on sale

[Beefster]

People often talk about the atmosphere being better in the olden days and they’re no doubt right. But does it occur to them that a part of the reason that this is the case is that people who wanted to sing didn’t need to go cap in hand to the club asking for their permission to stand in a certain area of the ground? They just went and did it. Why should we be at the behest of the club, it’s as much ours as theirs and people should be able to organise where to stand wherever they like quite frankly.

If you want to go and sit in any available seat in the ground, you probably don’t need to consult the club. If you want a block of 100+ seats made available and ST holders to be moved / prevented from buying their seats, you need to consult the club.

I’m not making a judgement on what you’ve been promised by folk at the club but I don’t think it’s unreasonable that, for what you’re looking for, you need to speak to the club to get it tbh.

[ABZHFC]

For people saying “go and stand where you want”, I don’t think you understand the level of hostility active support faces in Scotland (and I’m not blaming anyone for not understanding either), but it really is not as simple as “buy 50 tickets in one block and go and sing there”, ultra groups are policed and have to maintain a level of rapport with the club to even be allowed the very flags and drums they then profit from using in marketing campaigns

If it was as simple as moving elsewhere, it would have been done. Trust me

[The 90+2]

Apologies if this has been answered before, but why can't the family section be in the FF Upper, allowing the singing section and more vocal supporters to fill the FF Lower?

The grumpy bassas up there won’t want families running about probably, that and it costs more to sit higher.

[Baldy]

Why should we be at the behest of the club, it’s as much ours as theirs and people should be able to organise where to stand wherever they like quite frankly.


and there lies the problem, in case you haven't noticed, we have a 100% all seater stadium ... until its changed, then your group are the ones in the wrong with the demand that you are allowed to stand.

Do you realise that by buying tickets you adhere to the policies on the back of the tickets and on that it says something along the line of no standing and seating only?

[Danderhall Hibs]

How did they complain if there hadn’t been an announcement - how did they know to complain.

Full disclosure since some seem to think it matters - I sit in FFU and live in Scotland.

[Baldy]

oh and by the way I think we lost the atmosphere when we built the new east stand and made it the wrong style. the old stand created the atmosphere more than the one we have now

[The 90+2]

:troll:

Very harsh. You can support the club and live elsewhere and still be entitled to an opinion, irregardless if I agree with Peevs opinion or not.

[Dunbar Hibee]

Absolute joke to be honest.

[hibbysam]

oh and by the way I think we lost the atmosphere when we built the new east stand and made it the wrong style. the old stand created the atmosphere more than the one we have now

Not really true as the atmosphere had still been very good after that. Also we couldn’t design the new stand the same as the old one as it wouldn’t have increased the attendance.

[Power]

This thread has caught fire since I last logged on at lunchtime (nae need to finger point at any certain group, club department or individual - from my experiences of dealing with the club and various people in different departments they want the same thing in the main as supporters that I speak to - there’s always a valid reason why a decision is made or we do X instead of Y, that’s whether I agree or not).

There is good arguments all around, barry information & insight and ideas - As mentioned above, I’ll work with the club to find a positive solution (was already part of my supporter feedback for February to the board before this thread) but what it does need is everyone to pull in the right direction. I’ve not heard from Club or Since 1875 today so can’t comment more.

Opinion is only my own as a supporter that sits in the back row of section 40 East - I would strongly recommend Since 1875 move into one of the 9 sections of the East Stand for this game. Medium to Longer term we can look at the stadium plan - if there’s a quick solution, great - if it needs a delivery plan and restructure, it needs done in the right way (then let’s look at that with the club). Ultimately if they choose to stay in section 25, then that’s great for Friday too.

Gies a shout if I can help with anything and - without trying to sound like a political posturing tit - let’s work together on it.


I would like to hear the clubs view on this so we have both perspectives and maybe even the fans rep as well.

Ultimately I think the right outcome has been achieved as this was always a bad idea after people had bought tickets in that area.

My post on the other thread - above - is very relevant here too (Posting there whilst this thread is on the go here!).

This is now top of my pad with the board tomorrow and will continue to be until we get a solution as best we can for all.

Now a Fantastic opportunity for the group to display the unofficial club motto and persevere, doing what they do best - wherever they decide to sit on Friday (North, West or East) - and get us over the line.

[BlackSheep]

If you want to go and sit in any available seat in the ground, you probably don’t need to consult the club. If you want a block of 100+ seats made available and ST holders to be moved / prevented from buying their seats, you need to consult the club.

I’m not making a judgement on what you’ve been promised by folk at the club but I don’t think it’s unreasonable that, for what you’re looking for, you need to speak to the club to get it tbh.

The difficulty is that Since1875 have identified that the FF lower is where they think a Singing Section would work best, to sit here for a trial it requires that the condition of purchase, that an adult ticket is purchased with a child ticket, be lifted to enable the Singing Section to buy tickets.

I haven’t seen it suggested that current ST holders are forced to move to accommodate, but it seems the opinion has been taken that those who do sit there would not want to sit amongst the Since1875 singers. So there is opposition to even having a trial!

If the FF lower was full every week then I would bet most fans would agree that accommodating the singing section could be unreasonable on too many other paying fans, but that’s not the case!!!

[Andy74]

For people saying “go and stand where you want”, I don’t think you understand the level of hostility active support faces in Scotland (and I’m not blaming anyone for not understanding either), but it really is not as simple as “buy 50 tickets in one block and go and sing there”, ultra groups are policed and have to maintain a level of rapport with the club to even be allowed the very flags and drums they then profit from using in marketing campaigns

If it was as simple as moving elsewhere, it would have been done. Trust me

So atmospheres can only be created by drums and groups of 50 people?

I actually think this sort of stuff has killed the general atmosphere. The songs are known by not enough people. It can be interesting to listen to if you can hear it but most folk will have no idea what it is you are saying to be able to join in. It has killed the old songbook. Maybe most of it was a bit non PC which doesn’t help but hey.

Perhaps if there was a focus on stuff that you could bring people with you on rather than being too clever with the new stuff?

[Andy74]

The difficulty is that Since1875 have identified that the FF lower is where they think a Singing Section would work best, to sit here for a trial it requires that the condition of purchase, that an adult ticket is purchased with a child ticket, be lifted to enable the Singing Section to buy tickets.

I haven’t seen it suggested that current ST holders are forced to move to accommodate, but it seems the opinion has been taken that those who do sit there would not want to sit amongst the Since1875 singers. So there is opposition to even having a trial!

If the FF lower was full every week then I would bet most fans would agree that accommodating the singing section could be unreasonable on too many other paying fans, but that’s not the case!!!

The seats are largely all paid for. It’s been explained here quite a few times why family seats quite often go unused. I’d rather have the families still encouraged to have those tickets though rather than say if you don’t use your season ticket x amount of times then you’re not welcome.

[HibeeHibernian4]

and there lies the problem, in case you haven't noticed, we have a 100% all seater stadium ... until its changed, then your group are the ones in the wrong with the demand that you are allowed to stand.

Do you realise that by buying tickets you adhere to the policies on the back of the tickets and on that it says something along the line of no standing and seating only?

Legality does not equate to morality. And in grounds across Scotland, such as Celtic Park, Rugby Park and most of the lower divisions, standing is allowed. The fact that by technicalities of laws brought in to gentrify the working class game people aren’t currently allowed to stand should not factor into this argument one bit. Everybody (the board, the police, the stewards, the fans) know how stupid the persistent standing rule is, and therefore ignore it.

[Peevemor]

The seats are largely all paid for. It’s been explained here quite a few times why family seats quite often go unused. I’d rather have the families still encouraged to have those tickets though rather than say if you don’t use your season ticket x amount of times then you’re not welcome.Maybe there's an argument for moving the family section to the North end of the West stand (for example). This would mean that instead of automatically committing an entire lower stand to families only, the exact number of seats could be sold.

[The 90+2]

So atmospheres can only be created by drums and groups of 50 people?

I actually think this sort of stuff has killed the general atmosphere. The songs are known by not enough people. It can be interesting to listen to if you can hear it but most folk will have no idea what it is you are saying to be able to join in. It has killed the old songbook. Maybe most of it was a bit non PC which doesn’t help but hey.

Perhaps if there was a focus on stuff that you could bring people with you on rather than being too clever with the new stuff?

I think in recent years there’s been a swift movement of people feeling entitlement in a seat because they have sat there for years or whatever. Back in the day you went into the west or the east (especially) accepted if someone was standing in front of you, even as a kid and just stood on your seat, same at away games when I was younger, sat wherever sang stood and nobody said anything and it contributed to a better support and atmosphere too. Now, I don’t stand but I see middle aged gentlemen at almost every game have a go at someone for standing, swearing or farting because that’s their seat etc. That kind of attitude is only going to create negativity and it doesn’t help.

The lower stand is like a library now with hardly anyone there, now this might suit a couple of dozen people but it doesn’t help the club being “supported” in any way shape or form. Things should change from next season imo, and if that means moving a few people from their seat they’ve had for ten years or so to a section in the stand full of likeminded supporters I don’t see the issue with it. Half 1875 half family/older gentlemen that don’t want issues.

[tonyrougier123]

Since1875 should just do what they like and assemble where they want to be heard,obviously difficult folk behind the goals don't want an atmosphere,backed up by the club who make it exclusive.piece of nonsense this pish!!just make the bloody stadium open for all and let people sit where they want to view the game from in the home stands.never had this nonsense until recently.

[davhibby]

The fact that the club were approached when the draw was made and the time they took to respond meaningfully shows how interested they are. Aberdeen made a big thing of a singing section behind the goals for their two cup ties and it looks like it worked and I wouldn’t be surprised if they are moving their own family section for next season to accommodate this. Hibs will never know if there’s an appetite for something similar from the fans unless they try it. It’s all well and good Ron talking about improving the fan experience but not even getting around a table to talk to the most vocal part of our support isn’t a good way to go about it

[The 90+2]

Maybe there's an argument for moving the family section to the North end of the West stand (for example). This would mean that instead of automatically committing an entire lower stand to families only, the exact number of seats could be sold.

They would have to lower the prices to the whole of the lower west stand though. Just have half and half in the ff lower and problem solved.

[Baldy]

Legality does not equate to morality. And in grounds across Scotland, such as Celtic Park, Rugby Park and most of the lower divisions, standing is allowed. The fact that by technicalities of laws brought in to gentrify the working class game people aren’t currently allowed to stand should not factor into this argument one bit. Everybody (the board, the police, the stewards, the fans) know how stupid the persistent standing rule is, and therefore ignore it.



so wheres your morals when it comes to making fans, who have had the same seats for years, move because you think you invented singing and atmospheres at the football?

[Peevemor]

They would have to lower the prices to the whole of the lower west stand though. Just have half and half in the ff lower and problem solved.Why? The club could designate where the family section starts and stops as well as how much they charge people for tickets.

[davhibby]

so wheres your morals when it comes to making fans, who have had the same seats for years, move because you think you invented singing and atmospheres at the football?

Surely if your talking about people moving the FFL is the easiest place for that since nobody is going to be going to the games with a child forever so they’ll have to be moving anyway

[The 90+2]

so wheres your morals when it comes to making fans, who have had the same seats for years, move because you think you invented singing and atmospheres at the football?

I’m sure the people who have had the same seat behind the goals for years won’t really be that inconvenienced. Large groups got broken up when the west and the east got done up. So did FF upper for the singing section. Why would it be such an issue to move to a similar area of the stand?

[hibbysam]

so wheres your morals when it comes to making fans, who have had the same seats for years, move because you think you invented singing and atmospheres at the football?

I had my season ticket in the FF for many years, still got punted when it suits the club though. Thankfully I’m not precious over a lump of plastic and happy to move for the greater good.

[The 90+2]

Surely if your talking about people moving the FFL is the easiest place for that since nobody is going to be going to the games with a child forever so they’ll have to be moving anyway

Think there’s oaps that have been there for ten/fifteen possibly maximum, even then it would surely just be a handful.

[RyeSloan]

So atmospheres can only be created by drums and groups of 50 people?

I actually think this sort of stuff has killed the general atmosphere. The songs are known by not enough people. It can be interesting to listen to if you can hear it but most folk will have no idea what it is you are saying to be able to join in. It has killed the old songbook. Maybe most of it was a bit non PC which doesn’t help but hey.

Perhaps if there was a focus on stuff that you could bring people with you on rather than being too clever with the new stuff?

Naa don’t agree.

The last season of 1875 / Sec 43 or whatever they were called in the East was tremendous....they really facilitated a great atmosphere even at more average games.

The co-ordinated ‘naa naa’ celebration after every goal for example worked brilliantly.

Quite simply these guys need to get back to the East and with it we’ll see another significant upturn in the atmosphere.

How that happens I don’t know but clearly the current position is crap and doesn’t work and clearly the club, for one reason or another, is dead set against the FFL.

So again the only (and best!) solution is back to the East! Let’s make it happen sooner rather than later as well!!

[Baldy]

Surely if your talking about people moving the FFL is the easiest place for that since nobody is going to be going to the games with a child forever so they’ll have to be moving anyway


I actually agree but I think its a long term project, i.e. 2 seasons time

give the people who are sitting there an opportunity to move as a group (i mean the group they currently sit in) next season or at the latest 2021/2 season when the singing section could be allowed in that area. if the current people in there want to keep their seat then they should be allowed to but the will do so knowing that its more than likely going to be a majority standing area. Give them the choice.

[007]

Contacting the club after the draw has been made seems a bit too late to me. I imagine the club has a lot to sort in a short space of time in order to get the tickets on sale asap. Particularly in this instance when they were told the date of the fixture with it clashing with the Hall of Fame dinner.

Might be better getting as many of the details agreed in principle in advance and agreeing with the club to try it at the next home cup game, then once that is known it would just be a case of "pressing the go button" and sorting out any details that couldn't have previously been sorted (I appreciate that this might have been how it was tried this time).

As it isn't going to be possible to try it this time, maybe it would be worth giving section 43 a go. There are loads of seats available there.

[The 90+2]

Contacting the club after the draw has been made seems a bit too late to me. I imagine the club has a lot to sort in a short space of time in order to get the tickets on sale asap. Particularly in this instance when they were told the date of the fixture with it clashing with the Hall of Fame dinner.

Might be better getting as many of the details agreed in principle in advance and agreeing with the club to try it at the next home cup game, then once that is known it would just be a case of "pressing the go button" and sorting out any details that couldn't have previously been sorted (I appreciate that this might have been how it was tried this time).

As it isn't going to be possible to try it this time, maybe it would be worth giving section 43 a go. There are loads of seats available there.

It took about ten days to make any ticket arrangements after the draw was made, not sure how that’s too late.

[Barney McGrew]

As far as I can see, so far we’ve got one side of the story from a statement by Since 1875.

I’d be interested to know who at the club gave them the go ahead, as it doesn’t seem to say that?

[Peanut Shaz]

I had my season ticket in the FF for many years, still got punted when it suits the club though. Thankfully I’m not precious over a lump of plastic and happy to move for the greater good.
I was the same. Wasnt too fussed about moving it was the fact there was no consultation. First I knew about it was on here and got home from work to a letter. Moved to a similar seat on the other side of the stand and am perfectly happy there. FWIW I do think the singing section should be moved and I do think we should make the FF lower more intimidating. Surely we all want what's best for the team and with a little give and take, negotiation and compromise a solution can be found.

[Kojock]

Here’s my take on things. Given the behaviour of some fans in recent times LD doesn’t want 1875 anywhere near the pitch. I’m not having a go at 1875 but I’m sure they will be the first to admit a few roasters attach themselves to the group at the more high profile games. Imagine a Hear7s player scoring into the FF and celebrating in front of them. IMHO LD is more than happy for families to be housed there even if it means the stand remains half empty.

[BoomtownHibees]

Why? The club could designate where the family section starts and stops as well as how much they charge people for tickets.

Because folk with the cheaper tickets could move along and sit in seats beside folk who have paid more money for theirs

[Peevemor]

Because folk with the cheaper tickets could move along and sit in seats beside folk who have paid more money for theirsThe middle of the West Lower is pretty much full with STs is it not? Therefore there won't be many empty seats for people to sneak into and, even if they did, do what?

[BoomtownHibees]

The middle of the West Lower is pretty much full with STs is it not? Therefore there won't be many empty seats for people to sneak into and, even if they did, do what?

Not sure how many sections are full over there. I’m no sure folk would be happy sitting next to someone who had paid a lot less for their ticket. I’m pretty sure that’s the reason that all tickets are the same price (obviously out with concessions etc) in all sections of the east and west

[wearethehibs]

As far as I can see, so far we’ve got one side of the story from a statement by Since 1875.

I’d be interested to know who at the club gave them the go ahead, as it doesn’t seem to say that?

The way I am reading it, the club gave them the go ahead to buy tickets where they wanted (like any fan can) knowing they wouldn't actually be able to buy tickets in the section they wanted to move to due to the restrictions.

Also dont think they are having a go at the club here, just purely updating folk that were interested in this idea.

[007]

It took about ten days to make any ticket arrangements after the draw was made, not sure how that’s too late.

No it didn't. Draw was made late afternoon on Sunday 9th Feb. SFA released the fixture dates on Friday 14th. Club announced the ticket arrangements on Friday 14th with them going on sale the next working day, the 17th.

The OP says the meeting was arranged for the 21st so Since 1875 were up against it from the off. If contact had been made early and a meeting had been pencilled in for the 10th in case we got through and got a home draw then they might have stood a chance.

[Peevemor]

Not sure how many sections are full over there. I’m no sure folk would be happy sitting next to someone who had paid a lot less for their ticket. I’m pretty sure that’s the reason that all tickets are the same price (obviously out with concessions etc) in all sections of the east and westMaybe, I don't know. Having a family at a discount rate next to me wouldn't bother me. The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, it was just an idea off the top of my head.

[Peevemor]

The way I am reading it, the club gave them the go ahead to buy tickets where they wanted (like any fan can) knowing they wouldn't actually be able to buy tickets in the section they wanted to move to due to the restrictions.

Also dont think they are having a go at the club here, just purely updating folk that were interested in this idea.With the emphasis on the club's alleged u-turn and the parting playing toward an empty stand comment.

No need IMO given that there was no official initiative to start off with and there's already another thread.

[Bobby's Cinema]

The issue here is dislodging people who are entitled to sit there through their ST. I understand this, although not the way it has been communicated by the club.

We must though, address this situation for next season.

[Heedersnvolleys]

They would have to lower the prices to the whole of the lower west stand though. Just have half and half in the ff lower and problem solved.

Exactly

[Peevemor]

The issue here is dislodging people who are entitled to sit there through their ST. I understand this, although not the way it has been communicated by the club.

We must though, address this situation for next season.The club hasn't communicated anything.

[Brightside]

Maybe, I don't know. Having a family at a discount rate next to me wouldn't bother me. The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, it was just an idea off the top of my head.

West Lower is surely one of the busiest sections? Certainly never any spare seats near us for the last few years

[Peevemor]

West Lower is surely one of the busiest sections? Certainly never any spare seats near us for the last few yearsBut there'd by the FFL to fill.

[B.H.F.C]

Here’s my take on things. Given the behaviour of some fans in recent times LD doesn’t want 1875 anywhere near the pitch. I’m not having a go at 1875 but I’m sure they will be the first to admit a few roasters attach themselves to the group at the more high profile games. Imagine a Hear7s player scoring into the FF and celebrating in front of them. IMHO LD is more than happy for families to be housed there even if it means the stand remains half empty.

Mind the old boy in the family section racially abusing the Hearts player not so long ago. There are roasters of all ages all over shop, not just the young team. If folk misbehave deal with it, can’t let the fear of something maybe happening stop us doing things.

I do agree with your point about LD being happy to leave it as is though.

[wearethehibs]

No it didn't. Draw was made late afternoon on Sunday 9th Feb. SFA released the fixture dates on Friday 14th. Club announced the ticket arrangements on Friday 14th with them going on sale the next working day, the 17th.

The OP says the meeting was arranged for the 21st so Since 1875 were up against it from the off. If contact had been made early and a meeting had been pencilled in for the 10th in case we got through and got a home draw then they might have stood a chance.

I personally took this to KP as soon as the draw was made (separately from the since1875 guys) as it's something I have always thought would be good and this was a perfect opportunity to try it.

I was told that this was something the club would be discussing at their meeting the next day.

If they were willing to discuss it, it must have been a possibility.

Just a shame it's an opportunity missed.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I’d be interested to know the percentage of people that would genuinely kicking up a fuss/ not returning next season were they asked for a stadium reshuffle and being asked to sit elsewhere in coming seasons.

Genuinely interested. Wouldn’t most be pretty understanding and as long as the kids are happy they are happy?

We are talking as though we are tearing up tradition by asking people to move. The stadium has undergone a lot of changes over recent years. Just trying to understand how big an issue this could possibly be?

Feel we are missing an opportunity here. I understand why it has been turned down in this situation but I hope it is being looked at for the issue it is for the coming seasons

[tonyrougier123]

West Lower is surely one of the busiest sections? Certainly never any spare seats near us for the last few years

West lower without a doubt should be your family enclosure,it was in the old stand.players used to sign autographs and speak to the fans after the warm up.

[Peevemor]

I’d be interested to know the percentage of people that would genuinely kicking up a fuss/ not returning next season were they asked for a stadium reshuffle and being asked to sit elsewhere in coming seasons.

Genuinely interested. Wouldn’t most be pretty understanding and as long as the kids are happy they are happy?

We are talking as though we are tearing up tradition by asking people to move. The stadium has undergone a lot of changes over recent years. Just trying to understand how big an issue this could possibly be?I haven't seen anyone kicking up a fuss about potentially being asked to move in the seasons to come.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I haven't seen anyone kicking up a fuss about potentially being asked to move in the seasons to come.
Neither have I. But this seems to be the reason we are where we are because the club don’t want to upset this section of supporters?

[Peevemor]

Neither have I. But this seems to be the reason we are where we are because the club don’t want to upset this section of supporters?I'm not sure that's the case. To me it looks more like they haven't had a good reason to move them.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I'm not sure that's the case. To me it looks more like they haven't had a good reason to move them.
Just feel strongly from the outside it’s a huge opportunity missed and things aren’t working as well as they possibly could be.
Hard to argue otherwise?

[Peevemor]

Just feel strongly from the outside it’s a huge opportunity missed and things aren’t working as well as they possibly could be.
Hard to argue otherwise?Maybe, but as has been posted before, the majority of seats in the family section are sold but many aren't always used.

If the seats are sold is there a failure?

Did the singing section nor ask to be moved from the East to the FF Upper?

I honestly don't know if there's a problem.

[SquashedFrogg]

Maybe, but as has been posted before, the majority of seats in the family section are sold but many aren't always used.

If the seats are sold is there a failure?

Did the singing section nor ask to be moved from the East to the FF Upper?

I honestly don't know if there's a problem.

I'm not sure there is a problem for the majority of fans tbh. Unless I've missed something?

[B.H.F.C]

Maybe, but as has been posted before, the majority of seats in the family section are sold but many aren't always used.

If the seats are sold is there a failure?

Did the singing section nor ask to be moved from the East to the FF Upper?

I honestly don't know if there's a problem.

A lot of them are being sold for £50 and hardly being used. Sell them twice a season for a Cat A game and you make more cash. Chuck in the fact we can’t sell the remaining single seats in that section for the derby because of a self imposed policy.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Maybe, but as has been posted before, the majority of seats in the family section are sold but many aren't always used.

If the seats are sold is there a failure?

Did the singing section nor ask to be moved from the East to the FF Upper?

I honestly don't know if there's a problem.
Would the same number of seats not be sold elsewhere?
It’s not to say it’s a problem for me personally.
It’s about maximising the potential. If you had the chance to start with the stadium on day one season one, you wouldn’t choose the arrangement you have now. It’s not a problem for me personally, I’m not part of it. But do feel there’s a chance being missed.

[Peevemor]

A lot of them are being sold for £50 and hardly being used. Sell them twice a season for a Cat A game and you make more cash. Chuck in the fact we can’t sell the remaining single seats in that section for the derby because of a self imposed policy.I think the vast majority agree that football is too expensive and the cheap family deals are a way to permit some fans to attend (and more importantly start attending) who otherwise couldn't.

I think it'd be a shame to do away with that, and I honestly don't know if we'd be better off long term.

[malcolm]

The way I am reading it, the club gave them the go ahead to buy tickets where they wanted (like any fan can) knowing they wouldn't actually be able to buy tickets in the section they wanted to move to due to the restrictions.

Also dont think they are having a go at the club here, just purely updating folk that were interested in this idea.

It is more like they were given the ok to sort it out with the ticket office where it turned out it was (possibly quickly) seen to be impracticable... now what would be interesting is what ought to have been known when it was being announced on here as a finalised done deal. Which given folk may have bought tickets always seemed like it was unlikely to be true.

If the ‘singers’ get to move eventually then great given it would have to involve due consideration for others. Not something always apparent in views being expressed. :na na: Hibs have been selling seasons for set fixed seats since at least the 1970’s if not before but other than demolition it has only been to accommodate singers that folk have been moved wholesale. A little consideration for others goes a long way.

[hibbyfraelibby]

As far as I can see, so far we’ve got one side of the story from a statement by Since 1875.

I’d be interested to know who at the club gave them the go ahead, as it doesn’t seem to say that?


Timeline is interesting. Claimed meeting on 21st cancelled, got go ahead to talk to Ticket Office on 22nd (a match day when run off their feet with match day sales ICT and Hurtz tickets. Doubt they actually had time to discuss and agree anything concrete so likely the actual meeting took place Monday am as TO closed on a Sunday, I am sure they can confirm the timings and dates yet somehow they have announce on the 22nd that all was approved.

Dates , times and actions are not lining up and I suspect there has been a premature assumption leading to an unagreed announcement to try and force the club's hand.

[wookie70]

Will the atmosphere generated in the FFL be more than the FFU. If this is all about atmosphere you will need to take others with you. Why not take over section 43, there are hundreds on tickets left there for this game and the club would happily see you purchase them. My guess is that the singing section want to be like other Ultras and moving behind the goals will suit them but have little effect on the atmosphere. To be fair they do a good job in small numbers creating atmosphere in their area but whether that is FFU or FFL will make no odds to the vast majority of supporters. The big games still have a decent atmosphere and that comes from the freestyle singing section in the east, the same as it has for the last 40 years or so. Saying all that it may be possible for the singing section to get what they want and families to be happy enough too. That won't happen the way you are dealing with the issue though and you need to have a plan that works for the vast majority, time to implement it and as few disadvantaged fans as possible. You have already managed to get quite a few ST holders moved unnecessarily so you need to be patient and work with the club and the Supporter's reps.

[007]

I personally took this to KP as soon as the draw was made (separately from the since1875 guys) as it's something I have always thought would be good and this was a perfect opportunity to try it.

I was told that this was something the club would be discussing at their meeting the next day.

If they were willing to discuss it, it must have been a possibility.

Just a shame it's an opportunity missed.

That's fair enough. Did you get in touch with KP afterwards to see what the outcome of the discussion was?

I agree, it is a shame they've not been able to try it. I hope they at least try and get an area together in the East instead because there are still lots of unsold seats so they still have the opportunity to try that.

[The 90+2]

No it didn't. Draw was made late afternoon on Sunday 9th Feb. SFA released the fixture dates on Friday 14th. Club announced the ticket arrangements on Friday 14th with them going on sale the next working day, the 17th.

The OP says the meeting was arranged for the 21st so Since 1875 were up against it from the off. If contact had been made early and a meeting had been pencilled in for the 10th in case we got through and got a home draw then they might have stood a chance.

Six days then.

The club arranged the meeting an cancelled for the 21st, can’t you take into consideration the request for this meeting was prior to this date?

[h1bs4life]

Looking at the 2 threads about the famous five lower , both started by Since1875 then no further posts by them on either.
People have asked them a few things about moving back to the East / why they left the East.
The fans rep says he hasn't heard from them but suggested move back to East for Cup tie again nothing.
Does that mean not an option it's the FF Lower or nothing. No discussion ?
Been interested to hear from them.
All they seems to have down is start a couple of threads then disappear and fans now arguing amongst themselves.

[Radium]

Actually not such surprise given HFC and their previous!!

This was something that a lot of fans, silent majority, would like to see resolved and improve the atmosphere which evidently appears to be way down the list of "Things to do" at ER.

In my dealings with HFC on a couple of occasions relating to access/egress from East / South it was always The Security blame HFC and HFC blame security with none taking any responsibility - Security have no responsibility to me it is HFC and at each turn they disappear into thin air, problem solved.

I am interested to hear from any of those ST who complained and hear why they did so, we might understand things a bit better but I'll no hud my breath!!

Looking at the fans, who bought their tickets in good faith, for seats that many have had for years, in a stadium where standing is not allowed and may have asked the club what was going on is looking in the wrong direction.

The club got this wrong and have pissed off two different groups of fans in the one stand by how they handled it. Given that it is not the first time that this has been proposed it seems to be fairly inexcusable that they didn’t get it right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peevemor]

Looking at the fans, who bought their tickets in good faith, for seats that many have had for years, in a stadium where standing is not allowed and may have asked the club what was going on is looking in the wrong direction.

The club got this wrong and have pissed off two different groups of fans in the one stand by how they handled it. Given that it is not the first time that this has been proposed it seems to be fairly inexcusable that they didn’t get it right.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhat have the club done wrong in this instance?

[Carheenlea]

Will the atmosphere generated in the FFL be more than the FFU. If this is all about atmosphere you will need to take others with you. Why not take over section 43, there are hundreds on tickets left there for this game and the club would happily see you purchase them. My guess is that the singing section want to be like other Ultras and moving behind the goals will suit them but have little effect on the atmosphere. To be fair they do a good job in small numbers creating atmosphere in their area but whether that is FFU or FFL will make no odds to the vast majority of supporters. The big games still have a decent atmosphere and that comes from the freestyle singing section in the east, the same as it has for the last 40 years or so. Saying all that it may be possible for the singing section to get what they want and families to be happy enough too. That won't happen the way you are dealing with the issue though and you need to have a plan that works for the vast majority, time to implement it and as few disadvantaged fans as possible. You have already managed to get quite a few ST holders moved unnecessarily so you need to be patient and work with the club and the Supporter's reps.

This echos my feelings on this. Not sure being in the lower FF will make a huge difference unless the whole bottom tier is populated which is almost certainly not going to happen.

I’m west upper and the current site sounds fine from where I sit, but those in the East don’t hear it as well.

The East is the natural home for the more vociferous Hibs supporters for me.

[Waxy]

It simply cant be easy to move a large group of supporters to another area half way through a season.
FF lower is where this should be and hopefully it can be worked out in the summer.

Ps always was a good atmosphere when this was in the east too.

[h1bs4life]

This echos my feelings on this. Not sure being in the lower FF will make a huge difference unless the whole bottom tier is populated which is almost certainly not going to happen.

I’m west upper and the current site sounds fine from where I sit, but those in the East don’t hear it as well.

The East is the natural home for the more vociferous Hibs supporters for me.


Think lots of people think they were at there best in the East which has always been where most of the singing has started.
For some reason that appears to be a no go.
They have the right idea in trying to improve the atmosphere but now it seems the FF Upper is not for them.
What happens if they move to FF Lower and it doesn't take off with hardly anyone moving from the East to join them do they give it
another couple of years then say not for us, not open for discussion we want back in the East.

[Radium]

Here’s my take on things. Given the behaviour of some fans in recent times LD doesn’t want 1875 anywhere near the pitch. I’m not having a go at 1875 but I’m sure they will be the first to admit a few roasters attach themselves to the group at the more high profile games. Imagine a Hear7s player scoring into the FF and celebrating in front of them. IMHO LD is more than happy for families to be housed there even if it means the stand remains half empty.

Can see how this could have developed but would have hoped that the investment in the CCTV system would have been an opportunity to look at things afresh


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[FilipinoHibs]

I thought the singing section was most effective when they were at the South end of the East. Their singing used to sweep along the East and reach the Famous Five. The West would then be inspired to belt out their Hibees Hibees. Have been in the West and some even join in the East song as a Mexican wave of the song sweeps the stadium.

[PH91]

This echos my feelings on this. Not sure being in the lower FF will make a huge difference unless the whole bottom tier is populated which is almost certainly not going to happen.

I’m west upper and the current site sounds fine from where I sit, but those in the East don’t hear it as well.

The East is the natural home for the more vociferous Hibs supporters for me.

I am in this camp too. The singing section want to go in FFL but they will likely make up 2 sections maximum. Who goes in the other sections? I can see the atmosphere improving as it terrible just now but not massively.

I reckon there are thousands of fans who want to sing but have no interest in being in a dedicated singing section due to being older or going with older/younger relatives etc. I'd bet the vast majority of them are in the east stand and that's why i think the singing section should also be in there.

The analogy i think of is that the singing is like a fire, it starts at one point where the main singers are and then spreads around the ground. By having the above mentioned types around them in the east, the atmosphere can spread easier. It just doesn't happen at the moment as they are too isolated and moving to the FFL wouldn't solve that issue.

[WhileTheChief..]

Scrap the family section.

It’s barely used and cause nothing but arguments. For those of you with kids, in a few years they’ll be grown up anyways so you’ll not miss it. Sorted.

[Radium]

What have the club done wrong in this instance?

Given permission for a group of fans (that I accept you don’t believe) to get tickets in a section of the ground that was against their own ticket policy.

That it fell apart thereafter should have been anticipated and I can’t understand why someone (Alan Marshall) is named, didn’t look at the whole proposal and make sure that it would work.


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[jgl07]

There has been some very dubious postings on here.

Yes something needs to be done about the FFL. The question is what? And when?

It is certain that nothing could ever have been done about this Friday’s cup match with about a week to go. Certainly it is ludicrous to expect that a ‘singing section’ (all standing) could mix with families. Surely no-one with two brain cells to rub together would suggest this?

We have had a number of harebrained suggestions. Firstly a season or so back people decided to unilaterally move to the FFL resulting in the club blocking sales to that area.

We had suggestions that the FFU be closed for this match ‘so that it would look fuller on the TV. That’s going to win a lot of support from us in the FFU! I would mind but the South Stand Upper and Lower is going to be largely empty for this match.

There isn’t a hope i he’ll of anything changing for this season as the tickets have been sold, albeit a lot haven’t been used but they have been sold. It any changes are to be made they need to be in place before the time for season ticket renewals comes around. I suspect it is may be too late for that even now.

It is a very complex and unrewarding task to shuffle around thousands of season ticket holders. That vast majority will not want to move.

I have not seen one coherent proposal that would solve the FFL problem without disrupting hundreds of season ticket holders.

So we will be stuck with some empty seats in the FFL for some time, not to mention the South Stand. Hibs have a 20,500 capacity stadium and a core support of around 15,000 to 16,000. Only three clubs can bring enough visiting support to fill that gap.

[The 90+2]

Scrap the family section.

It’s barely used and cause nothing but arguments. For those of you with kids, in a few years they’ll be grown up anyways so you’ll not miss it. Sorted.

Family section should be open to one half of the North lower. If more make it category b in the South lower. There shouldn’t be a senior citizen/pensioner stand though. The whole point in the family stand is to encourage families not attract Jimmy who can’t stand up anymore a cheaper discounted season ticket. I’ve no issue either with a dad buying one for him and his kid but can’t go as often as he likes. It’s people that go there for a discount ticket who sit in the family stand as an elder or without someone who they take to the game to encourage them to support the club in further generations that should be scraped or asked to move.

[matty_f]

How many people make up the singing section?

I think the fuss around this is totally disproportionate to the people impacted/who are that bothered about it.

FWIW, I like the singing section but I do find the idea that they're responsible for the atmosphere in the stadium slightly bizarre. They contribute, of course, and have done so superbly at times.

But singing isn't atmosphere, it's just a small part of it, and when that singing is out of kilter with what's happening in the pitch then it's just noise, at the end of the day.

I sit in the West upper, when there's a big game it an exciting match, there's noise and songs coming organically and uncoordinated from the East most notably, but also the singing section and very occasionally from other parts of the stadium.

When it's really engaging, even us old farts in the West have been known to join in.

I don't think it makes the slightest difference whether it's the FF Upper or Lower that houses the singing section folks, and at the risk of upsetting some posters, I think there have been a few posters championing the singing section's cause across two threads, whose interpretation of their own importance is massively disproportionate to the contribution they actually make on a match day, and I tend to agree that the sense of entitlement (and I hate to say it, but it has been very evident in these threads) has been a big turn off to a cause I'm largely sympathetic to.

Not least the abject failure to at least attempt to understand Peevemor's point, which has never been that they shouldn't move to the FF Lower or any objection to the singing section.

I think the support as a whole has a responsibility to up our game on the creating atmosphere stakes, but accommodating a very small (in relation to the whole crowd) element is only a small part of that and ultimately I'd look at other ways of improving the atmosphere than simply trying to find a silver bullet in terms of location.

We've had some cracking atmospheres at the ground in the last few years, all managed with, and helped by, the singing section in their current location.

I think we all need to be careful not to make a massive fuss about something that's really insignificant at the end of the day.

[Hibbyradge]

Scrap the family section.

It’s barely used and cause nothing but arguments. For those of you with kids, in a few years they’ll be grown up anyways so you’ll not miss it. Sorted.

Or scrap the singing section.

They'll all be grown up in a few years so you'll not miss it.

[theonlywayisup]

Scrap the family section.

It’s barely used and cause nothing but arguments. For those of you with kids, in a few years they’ll be grown up anyways so you’ll not miss it. Sorted.

Scrap the Singing Section.

Their songs are barely audible and they cause nothing but arguments. For those of you who want to jump up and down and sing songs, in a few years you'll have kids of your own and you'll miss not having a safe environment to take them. Easily sorted!

[hibbysam]

Scrap the Singing Section.

Their songs are barely audible and they cause nothing but arguments. For those of you who want to jump up and down and sing songs, in a few years you'll have kids of your own and you'll miss not having a safe environment to take them. Easily sorted!

Curiously, why isn’t the west or east or FFU a ‘safe environment’? Get the young ones in with the bams ASAP and let them grow up to be bams at the football. The atmosphere will soon reappear.

[Brightside]

West lower without a doubt should be your family enclosure,it was in the old stand.players used to sign autographs and speak to the fans after the warm up.

They are the best viewing seats in the house. Never family priced tickets in a million years.

[hibbysam]

They are the best viewing seats in the house. Never family priced tickets in a million years.

West lower was designed for families, kids especially. Anyone over 5’ 4” has no chance of fitting their knees in.

[Brightside]

West lower was designed for families, kids especially. Anyone over 5’ 4” has no chance of fitting their knees in.

Well we are all 6 footers including the kids and we manage it!

[hibeerealist]

Unfortunately after an original agreement was put in place we have been advised by the club they can not facilitate a move into the famous five lower for this Fridays Scottish Cup quarter final against Inverness.

We contacted the club through safety officer Alan Marshall and fans rep Kieran Power directly after the quarter final draw to request this. A meeting was arranged for Friday 21/02 however this was cancelled by the club at the last minute. After drawn out communications we finally got the go ahead on Saturday 22/02 and were advised to contact the ticket office to make arrangements. Due to the current ticket policy in place ticket office staff advised to take the matter back to the club.

Due to complications updating the ticket system and complaints from other fans in this area we have this afternoon been advised that this will not be going ahead.

Since1875 are extremely disappointed that despite going through the correct channels in plenty of time the club are unable to assist us in creating a better atmosphere for a defining game in our season. It is with regret that the players will be faced with an empty, silent famous 5 lower in the second half as we try to push the team on to the semi final.


Been reading both threads on this Since 1875, why don’t you ask HFC to put it to the 13,000 ST holders (do you agree HFC should make the FFL available to SS for next season?) Simples yes or no?

Silent majority may well send the board of HFC a serious message!!

[Hibbyradge]

West lower was designed for families, kids especially. Anyone over 5’ 4” has no chance of fitting their knees in.

I'm 6'2" and I've always got plenty room.

[Heedersnvolleys]

How many people make up the singing section?

I think the fuss around this is totally disproportionate to the people impacted/who are that bothered about it.

FWIW, I like the singing section but I do find the idea that they're responsible for the atmosphere in the stadium slightly bizarre. They contribute, of course, and have done so superbly at times.

But singing isn't atmosphere, it's just a small part of it, and when that singing is out of kilter with what's happening in the pitch then it's just noise, at the end of the day.

I sit in the West upper, when there's a big game it an exciting match, there's noise and songs coming organically and uncoordinated from the East most notably, but also the singing section and very occasionally from other parts of the stadium.

When it's really engaging, even us old farts in the West have been known to join in.

I don't think it makes the slightest difference whether it's the FF Upper or Lower that houses the singing section folks, and at the risk of upsetting some posters, I think there have been a few posters championing the singing section's cause across two threads, whose interpretation of their own importance is massively disproportionate to the contribution they actually make on a match day, and I tend to agree that the sense of entitlement (and I hate to say it, but it has been very evident in these threads) has been a big turn off to a cause I'm largely sympathetic to.

Not least the abject failure to at least attempt to understand Peevemor's point, which has never been that they shouldn't move to the FF Lower or any objection to the singing section.

I think the support as a whole has a responsibility to up our game on the creating atmosphere stakes, but accommodating a very small (in relation to the whole crowd) element is only a small part of that and ultimately I'd look at other ways of improving the atmosphere than simply trying to find a silver bullet in terms of location.

We've had some cracking atmospheres at the ground in the last few years, all managed with, and helped by, the singing section in their current location.

I think we all need to be careful not to make a massive fuss about something that's really insignificant at the end of the day.

Do you nott think the sing section is its current size due to it’s position in the ground? Put it in a place where it can expand and grow. Where the young team actually want to be? I have said this before on this subject but been to German games where the whole of behind the goals is taken over and it’s a great atmosphere. It does not seem like a just a noise as it’s constant for 90mins.

[matty_f]

Do you nott think the sing section is its current size due to it’s position in the ground? Put it in a place where it can expand and grow. Where the young team actually want to be? I have said this before on this subject but been to German games where the whole of behind the goals is taken over and it’s a great atmosphere. It does not seem like a just a noise as it’s constant for 90mins.

No, I don't think that's the case at all, to be honest.

[Radium]

How many people make up the singing section?

I think the fuss around this is totally disproportionate to the people impacted/who are that bothered about it.

FWIW, I like the singing section but I do find the idea that they're responsible for the atmosphere in the stadium slightly bizarre. They contribute, of course, and have done so superbly at times.

But singing isn't atmosphere, it's just a small part of it, and when that singing is out of kilter with what's happening in the pitch then it's just noise, at the end of the day.

I sit in the West upper, when there's a big game it an exciting match, there's noise and songs coming organically and uncoordinated from the East most notably, but also the singing section and very occasionally from other parts of the stadium.

When it's really engaging, even us old farts in the West have been known to join in.

I don't think it makes the slightest difference whether it's the FF Upper or Lower that houses the singing section folks, and at the risk of upsetting some posters, I think there have been a few posters championing the singing section's cause across two threads, whose interpretation of their own importance is massively disproportionate to the contribution they actually make on a match day, and I tend to agree that the sense of entitlement (and I hate to say it, but it has been very evident in these threads) has been a big turn off to a cause I'm largely sympathetic to.

Not least the abject failure to at least attempt to understand Peevemor's point, which has never been that they shouldn't move to the FF Lower or any objection to the singing section.

I think the support as a whole has a responsibility to up our game on the creating atmosphere stakes, but accommodating a very small (in relation to the whole crowd) element is only a small part of that and ultimately I'd look at other ways of improving the atmosphere than simply trying to find a silver bullet in terms of location.

We've had some cracking atmospheres at the ground in the last few years, all managed with, and helped by, the singing section in their current location.

I think we all need to be careful not to make a massive fuss about something that's really insignificant at the end of the day.

I think the point that is missed, is that they are pretty inaudible in the East because of the side of the stand. (Having been treated to hospitality last year for a significant birthday there is a world of difference in noise from FFU in the West)

When they were high up in 45 the atmosphere in the East was better, probably because they were able to catalyse a larger group more often. Too much bother saw them move to the front and become less effective. Then FFU and no real link to the East.

Looking at other clubs across Europe I can see why there is the desire to go behind the goals. I am just surprised that the club is offering any sort of encouragement given previous statements and the lack of available seating across the stadium.

FFL is a separate business decision for the club but can see why fans are seeing the sea of unoccupied seats as an opportunity.

If the club are looking at safe standing that will probably give us our answer about the proposed home for the Singing Section.


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[B.H.F.C]

Do you nott think the sing section is its current size due to it’s position in the ground? Put it in a place where it can expand and grow. Where the young team actually want to be? I have said this before on this subject but been to German games where the whole of behind the goals is taken over and it’s a great atmosphere. It does not seem like a just a noise as it’s constant for 90mins.

Good point, that is being missed I think. It’s not something that’s going to magically change at the first attempt or overnight.

There is no reason the FFL can’t be used for not purposes either, it has the room.

There is a reluctance to try different things for some reason. This game would have been absolutely perfect for a trial. We should have done something similar to what Aberdeen did in the last couple of rounds IMO.

[matty_f]

I think the point that is missed, is that they are pretty inaudible in the East because of the side of the stand. (Having been treated to hospitality last year for a significant birthday there is a world of difference in noise from FFU in the West)

When they were high up in 45 the atmosphere in the East was better, probably because they were able to catalyse a larger group more often. Too much bother saw them move to the front and become less effective. Then FFU and no real link to the East.

Looking at other clubs across Europe I can see why there is the desire to go behind the goals. I am just surprised that the club is offering any sort of encouragement given previous statements and the lack of available seating across the stadium.

FFL is a separate business decision for the club but can see why fans are seeing the sea of unoccupied seats as an opportunity.

If the club are looking at safe standing that will probably give us our answer about the proposed home for the Singing Section.


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I'm not missing that point but I think there will be minimal difference between the upper and lower tiers of the FF.

I don't think it's unfair to say that the majority of the crowd don't want to sing for 90 minutes, or follow a drum beat, but a lot of folk will want to react to on-field events. The noise from the East, where more people joined in, still happens at exciting games - irrespective of the Singing Section.

These people aren't joining in with the singing section but they are acting spontaneously and are creating a genuine, un-manufactured atmosphere.

[GreenCastle]

I'm 6'2" and I've always got plenty room.

The west lower has less leg room than upper tiers and East Stand - apart from exec seats.

I think the club need to simply this..

How do they improve ER atmosphere ?
How do they make sure the FF lower is full or nearly full EVERY game.

Fans buying cheap tickets is still a problem which they tried to fix but didn’t work.

This game the singing section could even move to south loved behind the goals ? Give them all the space and see what happens. Surely still time to sort that ?

[hibeerealist]

How many people make up the singing section?

I think the fuss around this is totally disproportionate to the people impacted/who are that bothered about it.

FWIW, I like the singing section but I do find the idea that they're responsible for the atmosphere in the stadium slightly bizarre. They contribute, of course, and have done so superbly at times.

But singing isn't atmosphere, it's just a small part of it, and when that singing is out of kilter with what's happening in the pitch then it's just noise, at the end of the day.

I sit in the West upper, when there's a big game it an exciting match, there's noise and songs coming organically and uncoordinated from the East most notably, but also the singing section and very occasionally from other parts of the stadium.

When it's really engaging, even us old farts in the West have been known to join in.

I don't think it makes the slightest difference whether it's the FF Upper or Lower that houses the singing section folks, and at the risk of upsetting some posters, I think there have been a few posters championing the singing section's cause across two threads, whose interpretation of their own importance is massively disproportionate to the contribution they actually make on a match day, and I tend to agree that the sense of entitlement (and I hate to say it, but it has been very evident in these threads) has been a big turn off to a cause I'm largely sympathetic to.

Not least the abject failure to at least attempt to understand Peevemor's point, which has never been that they shouldn't move to the FF Lower or any objection to the singing section.

I think the support as a whole has a responsibility to up our game on the creating atmosphere stakes, but accommodating a very small (in relation to the whole crowd) element is only a small part of that and ultimately I'd look at other ways of improving the atmosphere than simply trying to find a silver bullet in terms of location.

We've had some cracking atmospheres at the ground in the last few years, all managed with, and helped by, the singing section in their current location.

I think we all need to be careful not to make a massive fuss about something that's really insignificant at the end of the day.


Matty, the numbers you are referring to could change considerably if the FFL were set aside for SS and others who want to be part of that, it could well grow and take up most of the FFL so let’s not down them on numbers and they are hardly insignificant.

Peevenor, if you read his/her posts came across as a ST currently in the FFL and now he tells us no, I live abroad and not been to a game in years!! This whole thing is about increasing the atmosphere at the games for those that attend and if it makes it better for those looking in on tv then even better.

The cracking atmospheres you refer to are when the FF is full, upper and lower, along with the rest of the ground.

I am not part of the SS I sit in the East with my sons and grandsons, however, HFC SHOULD be encouraging the fans to enhance their product not block them. I suspect our CEO fears the pyros and other missiles could be easier to get on the pitch than from other areas of the ground and that is why she has been distant from this as it would have happened had she wanted it.

Nutters can fire things onto the pitch from anywhere and with our new super duper cctv they will get caught and banned, if they are enjoying being part of the SS in the FFL then I would hope that none of them will want to be deprived of the opportunity by being an as s hole and throwing something.

I hope this can be sorted as ER needs it and it is splitting the fans.

[matty_f]

Matty, the numbers you are referring to could change considerably if the FFL were set aside for SS and others who want to be part of that, it could well grow and take up most of the FFL so let’s not down them on numbers and they are hardly insignificant.

Peevenor, if you read his/her posts came across as a ST currently in the FFL and now he tells us no, I live abroad and not been to a game in years!! This whole thing is about increasing the atmosphere at the games for those that attend and if it makes it better for those looking in on tv then even better.

The cracking atmospheres you refer to are when the FF is full, upper and lower, along with the rest of the ground.

I am not part of the SS I sit in the East with my sons and grandsons, however, HFC SHOULD be encouraging the fans to enhance their product not block them. I suspect our CEO fears the pyros and other missiles could be easier to get on the pitch than from other areas of the ground and that is why she has been distant from this as it would have happened had she wanted it.

Nutters can fire things onto the pitch from anywhere and with our new super duper cctv they will get caught and banned, if they are enjoying being part of the SS in the FFL then I would hope that none of them will want to be deprived of the opportunity by being an as s hole and throwing something.

I hope this can be sorted as ER needs it and it is splitting the fans.

The FF Lower is rarely full. The singing section has been on the go since the East was built, in one form or another, I don't think the potential for massive growth is anywhere near the levels you suggest.

I think you should re-read Peevemor's posts as you have wholly missed the point he was making.

[Heedersnvolleys]

I'm not missing that point but I think there will be minimal difference between the upper and lower tiers of the FF.

I don't think it's unfair to say that the majority of the crowd don't want to sing for 90 minutes, or follow a drum beat, but a lot of folk will want to react to on-field events. The noise from the East, where more people joined in, still happens at exciting games - irrespective of the Singing Section.


These people aren't joining in with the singing section but they are acting spontaneously and are creating a genuine, un-manufactured atmosphere.

You can have both though

[matty_f]

You can have both though

True - we have both just now.

[Peevemor]

Matty, the numbers you are referring to could change considerably if the FFL were set aside for SS and others who want to be part of that, it could well grow and take up most of the FFL so let’s not down them on numbers and they are hardly insignificant.

Peevenor, if you read his/her posts came across as a ST currently in the FFL and now he tells us no, I live abroad and not been to a game in years!! This whole thing is about increasing the atmosphere at the games for those that attend and if it makes it better for those looking in on tv then even better.

The cracking atmospheres you refer to are when the FF is full, upper and lower, along with the rest of the ground.

I am not part of the SS I sit in the East with my sons and grandsons, however, HFC SHOULD be encouraging the fans to enhance their product not block them. I suspect our CEO fears the pyros and other missiles could be easier to get on the pitch than from other areas of the ground and that is why she has been distant from this as it would have happened had she wanted it.

Nutters can fire things onto the pitch from anywhere and with our new super duper cctv they will get caught and banned, if they are enjoying being part of the SS in the FFL then I would hope that none of them will want to be deprived of the opportunity by being an as s hole and throwing something.

I hope this can be sorted as ER needs it and it is splitting the fans.Read my posts again (if you can be bothered).

Yes I live abroad. I never said that I haven't been to a match in years so please don't put words in my mouth.

I never once disagreed with the idea of the singing section being in the FF lower, I only said that it was never going to happen for Friday, and that it was unfair to criticise the club for this.

[WhileTheChief..]

Or scrap the singing section.

I would. I don’t think it’s needed.

If I was one of them I’d just buy a ticket in the East with my pals and crack on. With enough like minded folks around you, you’ll create an atmosphere.

I’m not for any kind of ‘section’ at all. We are all Hibs :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

Read my posts again (if you can be bothered).

Yes I live abroad. I never said that I haven't been to a match in years so please don't put words in my mouth.

I never once disagreed with the idea of the singing section being in the FF lower, I only said that it was never going to happen for Friday, and that it was unfair to criticise the club for this.

All correct and my points exactly.

Anecdotes and examples are fine, but it's no longer debate when people make stuff up to bolster their argument.

[Peevemor]

All correct and my points exactly.

Anecdotes and examples are fine, but it's no longer debate when people make stuff up to bolster their argument.What's funny is that all I've done is defended the club.

It's what I do. If somebody slags Hibs, I stick up for us. I don't care who it is, whether it's a supporter of another team or a self appointed uber fan. Have a go at Hibs and I don't hold back.

If that makes me a w**k then I can live with that.

[The 90+2]

I would. I don’t think it’s needed.

If I was one of them I’d just buy a ticket in the East with my pals and crack on. With enough like minded folks around you, you’ll create an atmosphere.

I’m not for any kind of ‘section’ at all. We are all Hibs :wink:

It is needed. The atmosphere is **** and the lower sections of the north is empty.

[Hibbyradge]

What's funny is that all I've done is defended the club.

It's what I do. If somebody slags Hibs, I stick up for us. I don't care who it is, whether it's a supporter of another team or a self appointed uber fan. Have a go at Hibs and I don't hold back.

If that makes me a w**k then I can live with that.

You're a w**k, right enough, but that's not the reason. :greengrin

Like you, my default position is to defend the club, be it the players, the management team or the board. I think the first time I've ever taken against a manager was Heckingbottom. Ironically I got heavily criticised for wanting rid of him as early as I did.

The club don't always get things right, but you defend the ones you love regardless, don't you.

The frustrating thing with pretty much all controversial topics on here, is that people won't take a step back and even consider the opposing argument. The points are either completely misunderstood, or ignored.

[BroxburnHibee]

What's funny is that all I've done is defended the club.

It's what I do. If somebody slags Hibs, I stick up for us. I don't care who it is, whether it's a supporter of another team or a self appointed uber fan. Have a go at Hibs and I don't hold back.

If that makes me a w**k then I can live with that.

For what it's worth I think your posts have been spot on.

[Irish-Hibee]

Scrap the Singing Section.

Their songs are barely audible and they cause nothing but arguments. For those of you who want to jump up and down and sing songs, in a few years you'll have kids of your own and you'll miss not having a safe environment to take them. Easily sorted!

Their songs are barely audible because of where they are sitting, because people are hindering their plans to move.

Having a family section is great and we should definitely not scrap it nut I think we should move it, possibly to the west.

[Hibbyradge]

Their songs are barely audible because of where they are sitting, because people are hindering their plans to move.

Having a family section is great and we should definitely not scrap it nut I think we should move it, possibly to the west.

Where would you move the displaced folk in the West and how would you convince them to accept it?

I don't need an answer. I'm just pointing out that all the simple solutions on these threads are not simple at all.

[Heedersnvolleys]

They must have done it for their current position

[Irish-Hibee]

Where would you move the displaced folk in the West and how would you convince them to accept it?

I don't need an answer. I'm just pointing out that all the simple solutions on these threads are not simple at all.

I get what you're saying, for any section to move there needs to be discussions. A possible solution could be to move the family section to say section 7 - 9 in the west, any season ticket holders can stay in those seats at the discounted price. Any new season ticket holders are single match tickets can only be accompanied by a child.

[Hibbyradge]

I get what you're saying, for any section to move there needs to be discussions. A possible solution could be to move the family section to say section 7 - 9 in the west, any season ticket holders can stay in those seats at the discounted price. Any new season ticket holders are single match tickets can only be accompanied by a child.

There are options, no doubt, but the club needs to consider everyone's needs and wants.

There are people who would just say to hell with the parents and children. We're the singing section and we'll go where we want. (Yes, there actually are posts similar to that).

Persuasion and possibly incentive will be required if such a change is going to happen.

I'd actually like the club to research to see if it's even necessary because all we have now are opinions based on self interest.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Do you nott think the sing section is its current size due to it’s position in the ground? Put it in a place where it can expand and grow. Where the young team actually want to be? I have said this before on this subject but been to German games where the whole of behind the goals is taken over and it’s a great atmosphere. It does not seem like a just a noise as it’s constant for 90mins.

This is a point I certainly agree with. The FF upper isn't visible or particularly inspiring as a location for the singing section, as has been proved over the last two seasons. It was worth trying but it hasn't particularly worked in spite of the best efforts of 'Since 1875'

I've said it before on this subject, there's a lot of folk going on about how it was better in the East, but the whole point of it wanting to move was because it wasn't any better and because there were issues with the club to the extent where folk were having to apply for special tickets to join the east group, how was that ever going to help it grow? It also did not encourage other east standers to join in with the songs, no matter how many folk try to make out that it did ... it just didn't.

This is why the FF lower is the best bet:

A) ... It is visible from every part of the stadium with the exception of the FF upper.

B) ... There is irrefutable evidence from away fans in the south lower that even a half full lower deck can make a decent noise audible and visible to the whole stadium.

C) ... The problem that has plagued Since 1875 since it's inception has been that it has never had a self contained area of the stadium to call its own that current and potential participants could identify with .. that's why it hasn't grown, and it's just not true to say the potential isn't there, the separate ad hoc singing section in the east proves that there are more folk willing to sing than just the FF upper guys. I am convinced that if the location was changed to the FF lower those east guys would be far more willing to move over and far more folk in other parts of the stadium would at least consider it.

Why can't the bottom 2000 seats in the east be made the family section, or if not that the 2000 seats nearest the FF stand. As it stands the FF lower is nothing short of a car crash, if what the club say is true and all 2000 seats are bought and paid for then the numbers failing to turn up every week is nothing short of abysmal .... are we really saying that on any given Saturday 1000 people out of a 2000 capacity ( 50% ) cant make it, or worse cant be arsed. If that is true why the hell are they being given a prime location in the ground at all?

From my stance as an auld fart who is maybe out of touch with modern day thinking around what football should be I would far rather see 1000 folk in the FF lower trying to create an atmosphere than the depressing rows of empty seats it currently comprises of, with just a few of the folk ( like me ) who actually do turn up trying to cheer on the team and most of the time being made to feel like ***** for doing so as nobody else joins in.

The club is actually ignoring its own stated credo here after the debacle of relegation. They stated in black and white that no stone would be left unturned in order for Hibs to reach our full potential ... what they talked about was 'tiny margins' on and off the park adding up to big differences ... Well for me the atmosphere within the stadium is one of those 'tiny margins' they talked about, in fact I would say it is more significant than that and by failing to do everything they can to actively build and grow an ultras section they are ignoring a factor which could in the long term be a massive advantage to the team on the park.

[FilipinoHibs]

I'm 6'2" and I've always got plenty room.

If you are slim or not too obese no problem.

[Phil MaGlass]

The FF Lower is rarely full. The singing section has been on the go since the East was built, in one form or another, I don't think the potential for massive growth is anywhere near the levels you suggest.

I think you should re-read Peevemor's posts as you have wholly missed the point he was making.

I would disagree with you, my club in Holland had one big singing section, then they made the bit behind the goals a sit where you like area, everyone from that end congregated directly behind the goals, it grew and grew, now there are 2 large singing areas in the stadium, great atmosphere, we are definitely missing a trick at ER. Oh, its also one of the reasons the younger ones attend, a sing song and get behind the team, a better atmosphere 100%.

[ronaldo7]

Unfortunately after an original agreement was put in place we have been advised by the club they can not facilitate a move into the famous five lower for this Fridays Scottish Cup quarter final against Inverness.

We contacted the club through safety officer Alan Marshall and fans rep Kieran Power directly after the quarter final draw to request this. A meeting was arranged for Friday 21/02 however this was cancelled by the club at the last minute. After drawn out communications we finally got the go ahead on Saturday 22/02 and were advised to contact the ticket office to make arrangements. Due to the current ticket policy in place ticket office staff advised to take the matter back to the club.

Due to complications updating the ticket system and complaints from other fans in this area we have this afternoon been advised that this will not be going ahead.

Since1875 are extremely disappointed that despite going through the correct channels in plenty of time the club are unable to assist us in creating a better atmosphere for a defining game in our season. It is with regret that the players will be faced with an empty, silent famous 5 lower in the second half as we try to push the team on to the semi final.


Sorry to hear that.

I'd not purchased my season ticket in the East for this game, as I'd heard the move into the FF lower by the 1875 group may be on offer. I've got two young lads who were wanting to join you on Friday night.

They could have joined you while I sat up the back :wink:

Maybe the next time. I'd suggest keeping lines of communication open, and keep them at the table for that next time, as it will come.

More power to you. :aok:

[SideBurns]

I would. I don’t think it’s needed.

If I was one of them I’d just buy a ticket in the East with my pals and crack on. With enough like minded folks around you, you’ll create an atmosphere.

I’m not for any kind of ‘section’ at all. We are all Hibs :wink:

The problem with this idea is the modern era of all-seated stadiums and that the majority of the support are season ticket holders. In the days of bigger grounds and terraces, fans who wanted to jump about and sing knew exactly where to go and, for the most part, just paid at the gate and took their place accordingly. That kind of spontaneity is much more difficult these days. Boys from the singing section could buy tickets with their mates but find themselves surrounded by folk who just want to sit and watch the game. It's why it probably needs to be sorted out before a season starts and is well enough publicised to allow fans to make appropriate choices.

I prefer your approach in theory, but I think the reality is different unfortunately!

[Chuck Rhoades]

They wanted to grow and improve the atmosphere further so relocated to FFU. They realise now in hindsight this hasn’t worked and had a negative effect on the atmosphere so are proactively trying to do something about it.

From what I read across the main forums and social both FFL and East are suggested alternatives by the vast majority of the support. Evidence by the poll that they conducted a month or so back.

They had an idea to try FFL as a trial for one game. A game specifically chosen as ticket sales were predicted to be very poor which again they were correct with as they are. They could've picked the derby on Tuesday which would have been a lack of judgment.

They communicated with the club. Had a meeting set up at 6pm last Fri with Ron, Leeann and others which was cancelled that afternoon. They had dialogue with the safety officer who gave the green light via email. This was then shared by the group proactively once more before the club u-turned on Monday as they realised Ticketmaster could not facilitate what was been tried and they had, had a couple of complaints from supporters.

I read a lot about entitlement by some posters. Having previously been involved in the group that sort of comment is wide of the mark and to a degree hurtful. Some posters on here, many of which have nothing to do with the group might I add, have done the group no favours in that sense though with some of the nonsense they’ve posted.

I reach 30 this year, have recently started a family and chose to take a step back from this. I can assure supporters on here there is no sense of entitlement and all the lads are trying to do is facilitate change that leads to a better atmosphere.

Finally, to answer Baldy’s point re privileged ticket sales ~200 at derbies etc this is completely inaccurate. The maximum amount of tickets for a derby has been 30. For Ibrox it’s been 15. This is well trailed and Hibs communicated this a couple of years back. Other branches receive similar allocations and rightly so given their commitment to following Hibs week in, week out. Again, this is fact as it was me for 4-5yrs who liaised with Nicola and subsequently Claire at the ticket office on the matter (think Claire has now gone too?).

[Kavinho]

Why don't 50/75/100 of the singing section arrange to get access to the ground when it's empty, and trial which part of the ground produces the most effective sounds ,- monitored by sound recording equipment at other spots in the ground.

Then we'll have enough evidence for where best to place the SS, and work over a longer period towards clearing space in that area for season tickets to be bought over a (say) 2 year period?

Everyone knows well in advance, and we're moving to a place where atmosphere can be definitively improved?

[wearethehibs]

Why don't 50/75/100 of the singing section arrange to get access to the ground when it's empty, and trial which part of the ground produces the most effective sounds ,- monitored by sound recording equipment at other spots in the ground.

Then we'll have enough evidence for where best to place the SS, and work over a longer period towards clearing space in that area for season tickets to be bought over a (say) 2 year period?

Everyone knows well in advance, and we're moving to a place where atmosphere can be definitively improved?

Can't tell if you are being serious or not

[Peevemor]

Why don't 50/75/100 of the singing section arrange to get access to the ground when it's empty, and trial which part of the ground produces the most effective sounds ,- monitored by sound recording equipment at other spots in the ground.

Then we'll have enough evidence for where best to place the SS, and work over a longer period towards clearing space in that area for season tickets to be bought over a (say) 2 year period?

Everyone knows well in advance, and we're moving to a place where atmosphere can be definitively improved?

It wouldn't work all that well as the results won't be the same with empty seats all around instead of people. In acoustic terms, the difference between plastic/concrete/metal cladding & bodies is huge.

[Heedersnvolleys]

This is a point I certainly agree with. The FF upper isn't visible or particularly inspiring as a location for the singing section, as has been proved over the last two seasons. It was worth trying but it hasn't particularly worked in spite of the best efforts of 'Since 1875'

I've said it before on this subject, there's a lot of folk going on about how it was better in the East, but the whole point of it wanting to move was because it wasn't any better and because there were issues with the club to the extent where folk were having to apply for special tickets to join the east group, how was that ever going to help it grow? It also did not encourage other east standers to join in with the songs, no matter how many folk try to make out that it did ... it just didn't.

This is why the FF lower is the best bet:

A) ... It is visible from every part of the stadium with the exception of the FF upper.

B) ... There is irrefutable evidence from away fans in the south lower that even a half full lower deck can make a decent noise audible and visible to the whole stadium.

C) ... The problem that has plagued Since 1875 since it's inception has been that it has never had a self contained area of the stadium to call its own that current and potential participants could identify with .. that's why it hasn't grown, and it's just not true to say the potential isn't there, the separate ad hoc singing section in the east proves that there are more folk willing to sing than just the FF upper guys. I am convinced that if the location was changed to the FF lower those east guys would be far more willing to move over and far more folk in other parts of the stadium would at least consider it.

Why can't the bottom 2000 seats in the east be made the family section, or if not that the 2000 seats nearest the FF stand. As it stands the FF lower is nothing short of a car crash, if what the club say is true and all 2000 seats are bought and paid for then the numbers failing to turn up every week is nothing short of abysmal .... are we really saying that on any given Saturday 1000 people out of a 2000 capacity ( 50% ) cant make it, or worse cant be arsed. If that is true why the hell are they being given a prime location in the ground at all?

From my stance as an auld fart who is maybe out of touch with modern day thinking around what football should be I would far rather see 1000 folk in the FF lower trying to create an atmosphere than the depressing rows of empty seats it currently comprises of, with just a few of the folk ( like me ) who actually do turn up trying to cheer on the team and most of the time being made to feel like ***** for doing so as nobody else joins in.

The club is actually ignoring its own stated credo here after the debacle of relegation. They stated in black and white that no stone would be left unturned in order for Hibs to reach our full potential ... what they talked about was 'tiny margins' on and off the park adding up to big differences ... Well for me the atmosphere within the stadium is one of those 'tiny margins' they talked about, in fact I would say it is more significant than that and by failing to do everything they can to actively build and grow an ultras section they are ignoring a factor which could in the long term be a massive advantage to the team on the park.
Couldn’t agree with you more. First section in north section of the east would be the best option. It kind of is a spill over family section. I used to help with a kids group that helped disadvantaged kids and the club used to give the group tickets in that section and at times we had the whole section to ourselves.

[Since452]

Fingers crossed they move back to the east for next season then if FF lower is out

[ABZHFC]

Here again is the problem.

People get so protective over the family section, as though it’s the only thing that encourages younger fans through the doors. You know what genuinely brings bairns in? Atmosphere, colour, passion. Because it sure as hell ain’t the standard of football, considering they could watch better quality on their TV.

Clubs across Scotland fail miserably on this point. They do everything to attract young kids with cheap tickets (and rightly so), but when those kids grow up and turn 14-15 and start going with their pals, what do clubs do? They don’t want to know, suddenly these same fans go from some of the most valuable, looked after supporters to the most criminalised and neglected.

It makes absolutely no sense, and the atmosphere is something that we can control too. I remember threads on Kickback a few seasons ago where they seriously worried about school kids in Edinburgh choosing Hibs purely because it seemed more fun, the passion, the noise, the colour.

What now? Would any kid seriously be more drawn to Easter Road based on atmosphere? I honestly doubt it. And that is why we need to change things, for the greater good of our club. Otherwise we will slide away into obscurity and turn into an Aberdeen-style support - sterile and lifeless

[Heedersnvolleys]

Here again is the problem.

Problem get so protective over the family section, as though it’s the only thing that encourages younger fans through the doors. You know what genuinely brings bairns in? Atmosphere, colour, passion. Because it sure as hell ain’t the standard of football, considering they could watch better quality on their TV.

Clubs across Scotland fail miserably on this point. They do everything to attract young kids with cheap tickets (and rightly so), but when those kids grow up and turn 14-15 and start going with their pals, what do clubs do? They don’t want to know, suddenly these same fans go from some of the most valuable, looked after supporters to the most criminalised and neglected.

It makes absolutely no sense, and the atmosphere is something that we can control too. I remember threads on Kickback a few seasons ago where they seriously worried about school kids in Edinburgh choosing Hibs purely because it seemed more fun, the passion, the noise, the colour.

What now? Would any kid seriously be more drawn to Easter Road based on atmosphere? I honestly doubt it. And that is why we need to change things, for the greater good of our club. Otherwise we will slide away into obscurity and turn into an Aberdeen-style support - sterile and lifeless

👍

[Since452]

Here again is the problem.

Problem get so protective over the family section, as though it’s the only thing that encourages younger fans through the doors. You know what genuinely brings bairns in? Atmosphere, colour, passion. Because it sure as hell ain’t the standard of football, considering they could watch better quality on their TV.

Clubs across Scotland fail miserably on this point. They do everything to attract young kids with cheap tickets (and rightly so), but when those kids grow up and turn 14-15 and start going with their pals, what do clubs do? They don’t want to know, suddenly these same fans go from some of the most valuable, looked after supporters to the most criminalised and neglected.

It makes absolutely no sense, and the atmosphere is something that we can control too. I remember threads on Kickback a few seasons ago where they seriously worried about school kids in Edinburgh choosing Hibs purely because it seemed more fun, the passion, the noise, the colour.

What now? Would any kid seriously be more drawn to Easter Road based on atmosphere? I honestly doubt it. And that is why we need to change things, for the greater good of our club. Otherwise we will slide away into obscurity and turn into an Aberdeen-style support - sterile and lifeless

Hopefully someone from the club reads that post. Absolutely bang on the money

[Brightside]

Singing section 43. Worked before and easier for people to move into that area and most people will get involved. Family section should always be in the cheapest section but it shouldnt be so cheap that people buy seats and use them once every 6 games. That end having so many gaps is never a good look and tbh its a waste of seats. Put the cheaper tickets in the far corners of the east and west. There are always seats there and its were Hibs hand out a lot of the free tickets. FFL can be the main walk up area.

[Bostonhibby]

Here again is the problem.

People get so protective over the family section, as though it’s the only thing that encourages younger fans through the doors. You know what genuinely brings bairns in? Atmosphere, colour, passion. Because it sure as hell ain’t the standard of football, considering they could watch better quality on their TV.

Clubs across Scotland fail miserably on this point. They do everything to attract young kids with cheap tickets (and rightly so), but when those kids grow up and turn 14-15 and start going with their pals, what do clubs do? They don’t want to know, suddenly these same fans go from some of the most valuable, looked after supporters to the most criminalised and neglected.

It makes absolutely no sense, and the atmosphere is something that we can control too. I remember threads on Kickback a few seasons ago where they seriously worried about school kids in Edinburgh choosing Hibs purely because it seemed more fun, the passion, the noise, the colour.

What now? Would any kid seriously be more drawn to Easter Road based on atmosphere? I honestly doubt it. And that is why we need to change things, for the greater good of our club. Otherwise we will slide away into obscurity and turn into an Aberdeen-style support - sterile and lifelessVery good points well made[emoji106]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

Here again is the problem.

People get so protective over the family section, as though it’s the only thing that encourages younger fans through the doors. You know what genuinely brings bairns in? Atmosphere, colour, passion. Because it sure as hell ain’t the standard of football, considering they could watch better quality on their TV.

Clubs across Scotland fail miserably on this point. They do everything to attract young kids with cheap tickets (and rightly so), but when those kids grow up and turn 14-15 and start going with their pals, what do clubs do? They don’t want to know, suddenly these same fans go from some of the most valuable, looked after supporters to the most criminalised and neglected.

It makes absolutely no sense, and the atmosphere is something that we can control too. I remember threads on Kickback a few seasons ago where they seriously worried about school kids in Edinburgh choosing Hibs purely because it seemed more fun, the passion, the noise, the colour.

What now? Would any kid seriously be more drawn to Easter Road based on atmosphere? I honestly doubt it. And that is why we need to change things, for the greater good of our club. Otherwise we will slide away into obscurity and turn into an Aberdeen-style support - sterile and lifeless

Great points.

We argued on the original thread but it’s hard to disagree with any of this.

[ABZHFC]

Great points.

We argued on the original thread but it’s hard to disagree with any of this.

Cheers mate, end of the day I’m sure 99.9% of Hibs fans all want the same thing - Easter Road to be a nice place to come to every other Saturday 👍

[Steven79]

Here again is the problem.

People get so protective over the family section, as though it’s the only thing that encourages younger fans through the doors. You know what genuinely brings bairns in? Atmosphere, colour, passion. Because it sure as hell ain’t the standard of football, considering they could watch better quality on their TV.

Clubs across Scotland fail miserably on this point. They do everything to attract young kids with cheap tickets (and rightly so), but when those kids grow up and turn 14-15 and start going with their pals, what do clubs do? They don’t want to know, suddenly these same fans go from some of the most valuable, looked after supporters to the most criminalised and neglected.

It makes absolutely no sense, and the atmosphere is something that we can control too. I remember threads on Kickback a few seasons ago where they seriously worried about school kids in Edinburgh choosing Hibs purely because it seemed more fun, the passion, the noise, the colour.

What now? Would any kid seriously be more drawn to Easter Road based on atmosphere? I honestly doubt it. And that is why we need to change things, for the greater good of our club. Otherwise we will slide away into obscurity and turn into an Aberdeen-style support - sterile and lifelessGreat post. [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

Cheers mate, end of the day I’m sure 99.9% of Hibs fans all want the same thing - Easter Road to be a nice place to come to every other Saturday 👍

Yepp, I’ve got a vision of behind the goals at ER being like the singing section is mostly but the full length of the lower tier and it would be class.

[Diclonius]

At some point someone is going to have to admit we ****ed up putting a family section where our Kop should be and attempt to rectify the mistake.

[Steven79]

At some point someone is going to have to admit we ****ed up putting a family section where our Kop should be and attempt to rectify the mistake.Yep! And they need to sort it out before next season.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[linlithgowhibbie]

They wanted to grow and improve the atmosphere further so relocated to FFU. They realise now in hindsight this hasn’t worked and had a negative effect on the atmosphere so are proactively trying to do something about it.

From what I read across the main forums and social both FFL and East are suggested alternatives by the vast majority of the support. Evidence by the poll that they conducted a month or so back.

They had an idea to try FFL as a trial for one game. A game specifically chosen as ticket sales were predicted to be very poor which again they were correct with as they are. They could've picked the derby on Tuesday which would have been a lack of judgment.

They communicated with the club. Had a meeting set up at 6pm last Fri with Ron, Leeann and others which was cancelled that afternoon. They had dialogue with the safety officer who gave the green light via email. This was then shared by the group proactively once more before the club u-turned on Monday as they realised Ticketmaster could not facilitate what was been tried and they had, had a couple of complaints from supporters.

I read a lot about entitlement by some posters. Having previously been involved in the group that sort of comment is wide of the mark and to a degree hurtful. Some posters on here, many of which have nothing to do with the group might I add, have done the group no favours in that sense though with some of the nonsense they’ve posted.

I reach 30 this year, have recently started a family and chose to take a step back from this. I can assure supporters on here there is no sense of entitlement and all the lads are trying to do is facilitate change that leads to a better atmosphere.

Finally, to answer Baldy’s point re privileged ticket sales ~200 at derbies etc this is completely inaccurate. The maximum amount of tickets for a derby has been 30. For Ibrox it’s been 15. This is well trailed and Hibs communicated this a couple of years back. Other branches receive similar allocations and rightly so given their commitment to following Hibs week in, week out. Again, this is fact as it was me for 4-5yrs who liaised with Nicola and subsequently Claire at the ticket office on the matter (think Claire has now gone too?).

Agree with all that except "other branches receive similar allocations".
Our branch from Linlithgow and Bo'ness has never been offered or received any type of group allocation for over 20 years and we are almost 100% season ticket holders. Would be interested to know who to contact to arrange 15-20 seats together at Tynie, Hampden, Ibrox, Tannadice, Falkirk et all.
Brian:thumbsup:

[kennyh]

Me and my two kids sit in the FF Lower and I for one would love to see the SS move down where we are and longer term wouldn't mind if we had to be shuffled along a block or two or even moved to another part of the stadium.
In this case ticketing restrictions and some fans who are in my block appear to have scuppered this attempt. Just looking at the online booking sales if the Since1875 group and like minded folk were to try the back of Blocks 1 and 2 in the West Lower for the Cup game that might work as we don't need too many to get songs going and being opposite S43 it could turn into a sing off between East and West.

Dont give up lads !!

[hibeerealist]

Here again is the problem.

People get so protective over the family section, as though it’s the only thing that encourages younger fans through the doors. You know what genuinely brings bairns in? Atmosphere, colour, passion. Because it sure as hell ain’t the standard of football, considering they could watch better quality on their TV.

Clubs across Scotland fail miserably on this point. They do everything to attract young kids with cheap tickets (and rightly so), but when those kids grow up and turn 14-15 and start going with their pals, what do clubs do? They don’t want to know, suddenly these same fans go from some of the most valuable, looked after supporters to the most criminalised and neglected.

It makes absolutely no sense, and the atmosphere is something that we can control too. I remember threads on Kickback a few seasons ago where they seriously worried about school kids in Edinburgh choosing Hibs purely because it seemed more fun, the passion, the noise, the colour.

What now? Would any kid seriously be more drawn to Easter Road based on atmosphere? I honestly doubt it. And that is why we need to change things, for the greater good of our club. Otherwise we will slide away into obscurity and turn into an Aberdeen-style support - sterile and lifeless

:agree: Good luck with that as there are a few nay sayers about that do not want to even give you a chance.

The least HFC can do is to at least try it in the FFL before saying no.

[franks]

Agree with all that except "other branches receive similar allocations".
Our branch from Linlithgow and Bo'ness has never been offered or received any type of group allocation for over 20 years and we are almost 100% season ticket holders. Would be interested to know who to contact to arrange 15-20 seats together at Tynie, Hampden, Ibrox, Tannadice, Falkirk et all.
Brian:thumbsup:

I can confirm that branches that travel regularly to away games don't receive any allocation from the club. Many who travel are AST holders but it can be difficult at times to organise a bus where tickets are hard to come by. In saying that the only grounds at present where tickets can be hard to come by are tynie (we don't run a bus there anyway) and sometimes ibrox and celtic.

[blackpoolhibs]

At some point someone is going to have to admit we ****ed up putting a family section where our Kop should be and attempt to rectify the mistake.

:top marks

[WhileTheChief..]

At some point someone is going to have to admit we ****ed up putting a family section where our Kop should be and attempt to rectify the mistake.

They won't though.

I really don't think the club care about atmosphere, they are far more worried about unacceptable conduct in the stadium.

I think they get the 2 things mixed up and are scared that the folk who like to create a bit of noise will also be bottle throwing neds.

We've been trying the family friendly approach for decades, it doesn't work. Time to start looking after the core fan base for a change.

[GreenCastle]

Here again is the problem.

People get so protective over the family section, as though it’s the only thing that encourages younger fans through the doors. You know what genuinely brings bairns in? Atmosphere, colour, passion. Because it sure as hell ain’t the standard of football, considering they could watch better quality on their TV.

Clubs across Scotland fail miserably on this point. They do everything to attract young kids with cheap tickets (and rightly so), but when those kids grow up and turn 14-15 and start going with their pals, what do clubs do? They don’t want to know, suddenly these same fans go from some of the most valuable, looked after supporters to the most criminalised and neglected.

It makes absolutely no sense, and the atmosphere is something that we can control too. I remember threads on Kickback a few seasons ago where they seriously worried about school kids in Edinburgh choosing Hibs purely because it seemed more fun, the passion, the noise, the colour.

What now? Would any kid seriously be more drawn to Easter Road based on atmosphere? I honestly doubt it. And that is why we need to change things, for the greater good of our club. Otherwise we will slide away into obscurity and turn into an Aberdeen-style support - sterile and lifeless

This !

Great post.

The Hibs fans have been fantastic last few years at times home and especially away.

We have a large variety of songs and compare to the Hearts fans we are miles ahead.

Hibs need to keep pushing forward so people know if they are coming to Edinburgh for a game what they will hear and see.

It has to move for next season and something has to be done for FF lower.

If the new season ticket info comes through with similar FF lower set up it will be really disappointing considering and questions need will be need to be asked to the club / supporter liaison officer (who actually needs to do more to engage with fans and make himself known like other clubs).

[Peevemor]

There are strong rumours on other threads of a proposed standing section at ER.

If this was to come about, whether it's located in an existing stand or even an infilled North/East corner, these will be newly allocated seats.

This would seem the ideal place for a singing section.

[mcohibs]

They won't though.

I really don't think the club care about atmosphere, they are far more worried about unacceptable conduct in the stadium.
I think they get the 2 things mixed up and are scared that the folk who like to create a bit of noise will also be bottle throwing neds.

We've been trying the family friendly approach for decades, it doesn't work. Time to start looking after the core fan base for a change.

Spot on.
Recent incidents of bottle throwing in the East stand should stand to highlight that this kind of behaviour has nothing to do with the singing section.

In reality, what the singing section does is provide something exciting for young folk to channel their energy, creativity and passion for the club and IMO probably steers a few younger ones away from more troublesome activities on a Saturday.
The 'ultras' culture that is growing in Scotland should be celebrated as a positive way of engaging youth and more should be done IMO to promote this aspect of the Scottish game both by the clubs themselves and governing bodies. Lets face it, if there's something that we can shout about in the Scottish game then we should be trying our utmost to capitalise on it.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Here again is the problem.

People get so protective over the family section, as though it’s the only thing that encourages younger fans through the doors. You know what genuinely brings bairns in? Atmosphere, colour, passion. Because it sure as hell ain’t the standard of football, considering they could watch better quality on their TV.

Clubs across Scotland fail miserably on this point. They do everything to attract young kids with cheap tickets (and rightly so), but when those kids grow up and turn 14-15 and start going with their pals, what do clubs do? They don’t want to know, suddenly these same fans go from some of the most valuable, looked after supporters to the most criminalised and neglected.

It makes absolutely no sense, and the atmosphere is something that we can control too. I remember threads on Kickback a few seasons ago where they seriously worried about school kids in Edinburgh choosing Hibs purely because it seemed more fun, the passion, the noise, the colour.

What now? Would any kid seriously be more drawn to Easter Road based on atmosphere? I honestly doubt it. And that is why we need to change things, for the greater good of our club. Otherwise we will slide away into obscurity and turn into an Aberdeen-style support - sterile and lifeless

:top marks

Great post which addresses the whole point of this issue. It's a point I've made myself many times, kids are attracted by a club with a noisy and colourful fan culture far more than bouncy castles in the car park or face painting under the stand, though these have their place too.

It's become fashionable to bash St Pauli as the ultimate 'hipster' club ... but they are also the ultimate example of a club able to pack out its stadium every week because fans are attracted to its fan culture as much as, if not more than, what they see on the pitch. The same accusation is aimed at Portland Timbers in the U.S. ..... another club that has to fight off fans with a stick in a city the size of Edinburgh.

It's a constant struggle in this city between Hibs and Hearts to attract supporters. Also hampered by the Old Firm being 40 miles along the road and kids comparing our football to the EPL. In that circumstance anything that makes you more attractive as a club to support is gold dust ... Being part of a support known for its colour and noise is an attraction for kids and young adults ... hell it's attractive to me and I'm 60 in 3 days time.

If I was the owner of this club it would be a no brainer for me, not just as a football fan but as a business man ... the second the last ball was kicked this season they would be in the FF lower ripping out the seats and replacing them with rail seats and I would be writing to every fan on the database imploring them to buy a season ticket for Hibernian's new 'green wall'

But that's just me .... I'm still romantic enough about football to think a game should be a noisy and colourful experience and if it isn't you should work your arse off as a club to make it so.

[hibeerealist]

:top marks

Great post which addresses the whole point of this issue. It's a point I've made myself many times, kids are attracted by a club with a noisy and colourful fan culture far more than bouncy castles in the car park or face painting under the stand, though these have their place too.

It's become fashionable to bash St Pauli as the ultimate 'hipster' club ... but they are also the ultimate example of a club able to pack out its stadium every week because fans are attracted to its fan culture as much as, if not more than, what they see on the pitch. The same accusation is aimed at Portland Timbers in the U.S. ..... another club that has to fight off fans with a stick in a city the size of Edinburgh.

It's a constant struggle in this city between Hibs and Hearts to attract supporters. Also hampered by the Old Firm being 40 miles along the road and kids comparing our football to the EPL. In that circumstance anything that makes you more attractive as a club to support is gold dust ... Being part of a support known for its colour and noise is an attraction for kids and young adults ... hell it's attractive to me and I'm 60 in 3 days time.

If I was the owner of this club it would be a no brainer for me, not just as a football fan but as a business man ... the second the last ball was kicked this season they would be in the FF lower ripping out the seats and replacing them with rail seats and I would be writing to every fan on the database imploring them to buy a season ticket for Hibernian's new 'green wall'

But that's just me .... I'm still romantic enough about football to think a game should be a noisy and colourful experience and if it isn't you should work your arse off as a club to make it so.

You are both spot on in my book!!

[007]

This !

Great post.

The Hibs fans have been fantastic last few years at times home and especially away.

We have a large variety of songs and compare to the Hearts fans we are miles ahead.

Hibs need to keep pushing forward so people know if they are coming to Edinburgh for a game what they will hear and see.

It has to move for next season and something has to be done for FF lower.

If the new season ticket info comes through with similar FF lower set up it will be really disappointing considering and questions need will be need to be asked to the club / supporter liaison officer (who actually needs to do more to engage with fans and make himself known like other clubs).

Season tickets will probably be on sale within a few weeks, a trial on Friday was probably the last chance for a trial this season. I doubt the club will now make changes like you are saying, it'll have to be the following season at the earliest.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Interesting to see ticket sales for the derby. I guess driven by you being unable to buy an adult or concession individually.

https://i.ibb.co/vDBv2rH/AEA047-B2-47-C9-4745-B441-6-AB26-B173978.jpg (https://ibb.co/Ws3pSd6)

[Waxy]

The lower west would be great for a family section.
The youngsters would have a great view of the singing section doing there thing (preferably in a safe standing area) in the FF lower.

[Brightside]

The lower west would be great for a family section.
The youngsters would have a great view of the singing section doing there thing (preferably in a safe standing area) in the FF lower.

Only the corners would work for that. Those sections more central in the West are the best viewing seats in the house. Not a chance we will reduce the costs of them to create loads of empty spaces for small children.

[Hibbyradge]

If you are slim or not too obese no problem.

I'm not slim 😂

[Begbie79]

:top marks

Great post which addresses the whole point of this issue. It's a point I've made myself many times, kids are attracted by a club with a noisy and colourful fan culture far more than bouncy castles in the car park or face painting under the stand, though these have their place too.

It's become fashionable to bash St Pauli as the ultimate 'hipster' club ... but they are also the ultimate example of a club able to pack out its stadium every week because fans are attracted to its fan culture as much as, if not more than, what they see on the pitch. The same accusation is aimed at Portland Timbers in the U.S. ..... another club that has to fight off fans with a stick in a city the size of Edinburgh.

It's a constant struggle in this city between Hibs and Hearts to attract supporters. Also hampered by the Old Firm being 40 miles along the road and kids comparing our football to the EPL. In that circumstance anything that makes you more attractive as a club to support is gold dust ... Being part of a support known for its colour and noise is an attraction for kids and young adults ... hell it's attractive to me and I'm 60 in 3 days time.

If I was the owner of this club it would be a no brainer for me, not just as a football fan but as a business man ... the second the last ball was kicked this season they would be in the FF lower ripping out the seats and replacing them with rail seats and I would be writing to every fan on the database imploring them to buy a season ticket for Hibernian's new 'green wall'

But that's just me .... I'm still romantic enough about football to think a game should be a noisy and colourful experience and if it isn't you should work your arse off as a club to make it so.

This 100%. Great post, well said!

My son is 21 this year, despite my best efforts to make him a Hibby by taking him to games he was swayed (sadly) by 1 trip to Ibrox with his pals. Its was full, it was noisy, it was colorful. Simply put, he wont be the first or the last to do this. This in itself is where the club shoots itself firmly in the foot.

The fact this is popular in Germany is simple, as a fan, your the clubs number 1 priority, nothing else matters. I go to watch Union Berlin 4/5 times a year and have met the UK Social Media guy a few times that works for them. He's a glaswegian and has shown us round the stadium a couple of times and gave us great insight into the way the club works and the lengths they go to to accomodate the fans is unreal. The stadium holds roughly the same as ER and has 1 seated stand and the atmosphere is easily the best ive been to. Now you have to ask yourself how a club with a similar sized fanbase to ours operating mostly in the 2 Bundesliga is now punching well above its weight in the German Bundesliga? Absolutely get the team on the park is the main reason as they get the results but if you ask any of the players, staff or anyone involved with the club if the fans/ultras play a part they would say yes.

Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why they think this sort of model wouldnt work here? or why it shouldnt be at least given a good go?

IMO the club have moved backwards on this topic and just hammers home the fact that not only us fans of Hibs but most clubs in the UK we are so far down the pecking order of the clubs priorities its actually laughable.

[Groathillgrump]

They won't though.

I really don't think the club care about atmosphere, they are far more worried about unacceptable conduct in the stadium.

I think they get the 2 things mixed up and are scared that the folk who like to create a bit of noise will also be bottle throwing neds.

We've been trying the family friendly approach for decades, it doesn't work. Time to start looking after the core fan base for a change.

What is your definition of the core fan base? I'm genuinely interested to see if I fit your profile.

[Brightside]

This 100%. Great post, well said!

My son is 21 this year, despite my best efforts to make him a Hibby by taking him to games he was swayed (sadly) by 1 trip to Ibrox with his pals. Its was full, it was noisy, it was colorful. Simply put, he wont be the first or the last to do this. This in itself is where the club shoots itself firmly in the foot.

The fact this is popular in Germany is simple, as a fan, your the clubs number 1 priority, nothing else matters. I go to watch Union Berlin 4/5 times a year and have met the UK Social Media guy a few times that works for them. He's a glaswegian and has shown us round the stadium a couple of times and gave us great insight into the way the club works and the lengths they go to to accomodate the fans is unreal. The stadium holds roughly the same as ER and has 1 seated stand and the atmosphere is easily the best ive been to. Now you have to ask yourself how a club with a similar sized fanbase to ours operating mostly in the 2 Bundesliga is now punching well above its weight in the German Bundesliga? Absolutely get the team on the park is the main reason as they get the results but if you ask any of the players, staff or anyone involved with the club if the fans/ultras play a part they would say yes.

Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why they think this sort of model wouldnt work here? or why it shouldnt be at least given a good go?

IMO the club have moved backwards on this topic and just hammers home the fact that not only us fans of Hibs but most clubs in the UK we are so far down the pecking order of the clubs priorities its actually laughable.
I assume you have put your son up for adoption.

[lyonhibs]

Here again is the problem.

People get so protective over the family section, as though it’s the only thing that encourages younger fans through the doors. You know what genuinely brings bairns in? Atmosphere, colour, passion. Because it sure as hell ain’t the standard of football, considering they could watch better quality on their TV.

Clubs across Scotland fail miserably on this point. They do everything to attract young kids with cheap tickets (and rightly so), but when those kids grow up and turn 14-15 and start going with their pals, what do clubs do? They don’t want to know, suddenly these same fans go from some of the most valuable, looked after supporters to the most criminalised and neglected.

It makes absolutely no sense, and the atmosphere is something that we can control too. I remember threads on Kickback a few seasons ago where they seriously worried about school kids in Edinburgh choosing Hibs purely because it seemed more fun, the passion, the noise, the colour.

What now? Would any kid seriously be more drawn to Easter Road based on atmosphere? I honestly doubt it. And that is why we need to change things, for the greater good of our club. Otherwise we will slide away into obscurity and turn into an Aberdeen-style support - sterile and lifeless

Some good points but you're kidding yourself on if you don't think that the family friendly pricing structure of the FFL isn't a major factor in facilitating the first experiences a lot of kids will have at ER and thus a family section will and must remain as part of the Hibs strategy/pricing policy etc. All the passion and desire to watch Hibs in the world isn't of much use if your folks can't afford to take you regularly.

I do think, and have said so on various occasions, that Hibs need to have a more flexible mindset/structure as far as walk up prices go (more age categories or a pricing scale dependent on seat location for example) and also "season ticket-esque" schemes to generate a bit of up front financial commitment from fans who may well have the means to do so but can't get along to ER as regularly as they'd like for whatever reason.

However such ideas always hit the brick wall of "devaluing the ST" so never see the light of day.

[Begbie79]

I assume you have put your son up for adoption.

Aye hes dead to me now :greengrin:wink:

[Stuart93]

You just have to look at that area of the ground almost every game to know having the FFL as a family section isn’t working

It’s empty most weeks. Looks horrendous and a bit embarrassing imo.

[matty_f]

It would be great to see the singing section flourish, I think there is a bigger issue around atmosphere in the stadium though. We've had some great times over the last few years but the biggest risk to the atmosphere isn't where the singing section are located (there will be plenty of us who remember what the football was like in the days before choreography),but rather how the team is doing.

When we were going toe to toe at Easter Road with The Rangers and Celtic, Easter Road was rocking. Derby nights where we tucked them away, had an electric atmosphere, and even the European night, coming back from 0-2 to win 3-2, had a great atmosphere all over the ground. The difference from then to now is that the team was largely successful. A promotion, a cup win, cup finals, good results against the best teams in the country - that's what excites the support and motivates folk to sing and play their part in the game.

When we're huffing and puffing to a draw against Livingston, you could put the singing section anywhere in the stadium and make little impact on the atmosphere.

Singing itself isn't atmosphere, it helps and it contributes, but I've seen Motherwell used as an example, and while they're noisy and they add to the atmosphere, when it's against a backdrop of the rest of the stadium not being that bothered then really it's just noise.

We need a really good side, playing exciting football, and a bigger section of the support than just the singing section to be engaged in making the atmosphere better. Then it won't really matter where folk are sitting.

[Hibbyradge]

:agree: Good luck with that as there are a few nay sayers about that do not want to even give you a chance.



That's not a helpful thing to say as it's not true and it creates division.

I haven't read any posts saying that the SS shouldn't be relocated.

I have, however, read people, including myself, saying that Friday wasn't the time to do so and they gave valid reasons.
Those posters care about both the family section and the singing section, but there are those who have openly said that they don't care about the families.

That attitude isn't going to persuade anyone.

However, if the rumours are true about a safe standing area, I expect this will all be water under the bridge very soon. TFFT.

[Stuart93]

It would be great to see the singing section flourish, I think there is a bigger issue around atmosphere in the stadium though. We've had some great times over the last few years but the biggest risk to the atmosphere isn't where the singing section are located (there will be plenty of us who remember what the football was like in the days before choreography),but rather how the team is doing.

When we were going toe to toe at Easter Road with The Rangers and Celtic, Easter Road was rocking. Derby nights where we tucked them away, had an electric atmosphere, and even the European night, coming back from 0-2 to win 3-2, had a great atmosphere all over the ground. The difference from then to now is that the team was largely successful. A promotion, a cup win, cup finals, good results against the best teams in the country - that's what excites the support and motivates folk to sing and play their part in the game.

When we're huffing and puffing to a draw against Livingston, you could put the singing section anywhere in the stadium and make little impact on the atmosphere.

Singing itself isn't atmosphere, it helps and it contributes, but I've seen Motherwell used as an example, and while they're noisy and they add to the atmosphere, when it's against a backdrop of the rest of the stadium not being that bothered then really it's just noise.

We need a really good side, playing exciting football, and a bigger section of the support than just the singing section to be engaged in making the atmosphere better. Then it won't really matter where folk are sitting.

Spot on

Success on the park and everything else takes care of itself

[cmcd]

What is your definition of the core fan base? I'm genuinely interested to see if I fit your profile.
I know I'm getting on a bit but why don't they move the families to the FF Upper and put the singing section in the lower. I wouldn't mind being moved up for as long as I'm able

[Begbie79]

It would be great to see the singing section flourish, I think there is a bigger issue around atmosphere in the stadium though. We've had some great times over the last few years but the biggest risk to the atmosphere isn't where the singing section are located (there will be plenty of us who remember what the football was like in the days before choreography),but rather how the team is doing.

When we were going toe to toe at Easter Road with The Rangers and Celtic, Easter Road was rocking. Derby nights where we tucked them away, had an electric atmosphere, and even the European night, coming back from 0-2 to win 3-2, had a great atmosphere all over the ground. The difference from then to now is that the team was largely successful. A promotion, a cup win, cup finals, good results against the best teams in the country - that's what excites the support and motivates folk to sing and play their part in the game.

When we're huffing and puffing to a draw against Livingston, you could put the singing section anywhere in the stadium and make little impact on the atmosphere.

Singing itself isn't atmosphere, it helps and it contributes, but I've seen Motherwell used as an example, and while they're noisy and they add to the atmosphere, when it's against a backdrop of the rest of the stadium not being that bothered then really it's just noise.

We need a really good side, playing exciting football, and a bigger section of the support than just the singing section to be engaged in making the atmosphere better. Then it won't really matter where folk are sitting.

Ive played football at a professional level. The atmosphere created by the crowd at games 100% has an impact on the team.

[PatHead]

As the famous 5 lower is not an option, is it worth you all buying tickets together in the East as a one off and see how it goes?

[Steven79]

As the famous 5 lower is not an option, is it worth you all buying tickets together in the East as a one off and see how it goes?They should just go in with kids tickets as it's going to be a mourge otherwise on Friday...

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[B.H.F.C]

Spot on

Success on the park and everything else takes care of itself

But we’re Hibs so we’re not going to be successful on the park all the time.

Teams must enjoy coming to play us. It’s generally a better stadium and better pitch than they play on at home. And it’s rarely intimidating.

We’ve got a pretty poor home record this year, maybe rather than just looking at it from the point of view that if everything is all right on the pitch it’ll be all right in the stands, we should look at the other way round that improving things in the stands can help things on the pitch?

I get the point that bigger games are always going to have a bigger atmosphere, but the current setup doesn’t help IMO.

[WhileTheChief..]

What is your definition of the core fan base? I'm genuinely interested to see if I fit your profile.

Adults aged 18+ and in the main, male.

I know that this upsets people, and clearly it makes me sexist and a misogynist for pointing out the bleeding obvious, but hey-ho!!

[NAE NOOKIE]

This 100%. Great post, well said!

My son is 21 this year, despite my best efforts to make him a Hibby by taking him to games he was swayed (sadly) by 1 trip to Ibrox with his pals. Its was full, it was noisy, it was colorful. Simply put, he wont be the first or the last to do this. This in itself is where the club shoots itself firmly in the foot.

The fact this is popular in Germany is simple, as a fan, your the clubs number 1 priority, nothing else matters. I go to watch Union Berlin 4/5 times a year and have met the UK Social Media guy a few times that works for them. He's a glaswegian and has shown us round the stadium a couple of times and gave us great insight into the way the club works and the lengths they go to to accomodate the fans is unreal. The stadium holds roughly the same as ER and has 1 seated stand and the atmosphere is easily the best ive been to. Now you have to ask yourself how a club with a similar sized fanbase to ours operating mostly in the 2 Bundesliga is now punching well above its weight in the German Bundesliga? Absolutely get the team on the park is the main reason as they get the results but if you ask any of the players, staff or anyone involved with the club if the fans/ultras play a part they would say yes.

Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why they think this sort of model wouldnt work here? or why it shouldnt be at least given a good go?

IMO the club have moved backwards on this topic and just hammers home the fact that not only us fans of Hibs but most clubs in the UK we are so far down the pecking order of the clubs priorities its actually laughable.

:agree: ... Union Berlin was one of the clubs I was going to mention, doing great this season BTW.

I wouldn't totally agree that Hibs don't value the club's supporters. It's just that for me and clearly quite a few others they are failing to grasp what it is that gets a club talked about and enthuses young fans to follow it, short of on field success, which for a club like us is at best sporadic lets face it.

If you need examples look at Hibs on You Tube .... It's not films of Hibs pumping the Jambos or even winning the Scottish cup in dramatic style that gets all the views. It's our fans belting out Sunshine on Leith which attracts the most views and positive comments from fans of other clubs, and believe me kids want to be part of a club whose fans attract admiring comments from their peers ... hell, I want to support a club like that and I'm no kid.

Or consider this. Hibs have produced very few DVD's of the clubs contemporary matches ... in fact only 4 that I can think of ... The league cup final of 2007, the Scottish cup final of 2012 and our Championship winning season .... but what was the other one? Yes that's right our match with AEK Athens in 2001.

Why would a club issue a DVD of a cup tie it ultimately lost, and not even to a team who were or have ever been in the upper echelons of the football firmament. We all know the reason ... Nobody who was at that match will ever forget the atmosphere that night, in modern times it has never been matched at Easter Road .... Even Hibs recognised that such a match had sales potential, hence the DVD .... Well atmosphere doesn't just sell DVDs it also sells your club as an attractive proposition to support .... It's high time Hibs as a club worked harder to make ER more like AEK Athens and less like a group stage of the league cup versus Brechin City.

[matty_f]

Ive played football at a professional level. The atmosphere created by the crowd at games 100% has an impact on the team.

Totally agree.

[Since452]

The lower west would be great for a family section.
The youngsters would have a great view of the singing section doing there thing (preferably in a safe standing area) in the FF lower.

Stop being disruptive. Mental sense of entitlement by you. I'm contacting the club in advance before anyone gets any more whacky ideas

[NAE NOOKIE]

Spot on

Success on the park and everything else takes care of itself

Aye so it does ........ how's that been going for us since the 1950s? With the notable exception of Mowbray's team up until 2016 we spent 40 odd years raving about a team whose sole tangible achievement was a single solitary league cup. I know there was more to them than that, but if you measure success in trophies then they ultimately failed.

If on field success is fleeting at best how do you make your club an attractive prospect for kids and floating potential supporters? You make the games it plays worth attending for the whole experience and when on field success is far from guaranteed what its stadiums atmosphere is like and the reputation of its support become major factors.

Any football fan worth their salt knows about St Pauli .... what have they won, were is their reputation for exciting football? Every fan knows about the 'Yellow wall' which attracts tourist fans from all around the world to watch Dortmund, not their exciting football or trophy laden cabinet.

Its difficult and expensive to achieve on field success, not to mention a decent slice of luck being required for a club like us. What you can influence relatively inexpensively and without luck being involved is what your club is like to support and how much its fans identify with it ... As a fan if you can't bum about your clubs on field success the next best thing is to be part of a support which is admired by other fans for the backing they give it. Young fans want to be part of a support with a good reputation for the backing their team.

If we were to seriously work on this as a club and support we would leave Hearts trailing as the club of choice in Edinburgh .... the fact that we don't recognise that fact as a club frustrates the hell out of me, with the one bright light in the whole thing being that the current owners of Hearts appear to be as woeful in this area as Hibs are. Heaven help us if they wake up before we do.

[Since452]

Crystal Palace have probably the best atmosphere in the EPL and they're gash. Youngsters are chomping at the bit to go there. Motherwell have been so so over the last few years but their fans are winning awards for the atmosphere and again the youngsters are loving it. Some of the best atmospheres I remember at Easter Road is when we have been *****. I don't buy the "play better and the crowd will sing more" argument.

[GreenCastle]

Spot on

Success on the park and everything else takes care of itself

Many successful teams in England have very quiet home stadiums.

Successful team doesn’t always mean good atmosphere - sometimes makes it worse.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Crystal Palace have probably the best atmosphere in the EPL and they're gash. Youngsters are chomping at the bit to go there. Motherwell have been so so over the last few years but their fans are winning awards for the atmosphere and again the youngsters are loving it. Some of the best atmospheres I remember at Easter Road is when we have been *****. I don't buy the "play better and the crowd will sing more" argument.

This goes towards what I've been saying. Palace are a great example, their team is average at best, but as you say they are attracting young fans enthused by the reputation their version of Since 1875 and other fans in England are somewhat envious of the atmosphere being generated at Selhurst Park by a relatively small portion of fans.

[ABZHFC]

Some good points but you're kidding yourself on if you don't think that the family friendly pricing structure of the FFL isn't a major factor in facilitating the first experiences a lot of kids will have at ER and thus a family section will and must remain as part of the Hibs strategy/pricing policy etc. All the passion and desire to watch Hibs in the world isn't of much use if your folks can't afford to take you regularly.

I do think, and have said so on various occasions, that Hibs need to have a more flexible mindset/structure as far as walk up prices go (more age categories or a pricing scale dependent on seat location for example) and also "season ticket-esque" schemes to generate a bit of up front financial commitment from fans who may well have the means to do so but can't get along to ER as regularly as they'd like for whatever reason.

However such ideas always hit the brick wall of "devaluing the ST" so never see the light of day.

I accept your point completely, Hibs should never price out young kids from attending and I'm really pleased at what we've done to make football more affordable for families attending with their children.

But here's one issue I have with some clubs' pricing strategies for kids, and it's not a complaint at our club specifically, it goes on across the country. I'll use an example in our division - Motherwell, a club who are rightly applauded for some of the fantastic community work that they do. For January's game at Fir Park, their prices were as followed; adults: £24, over-65s, students and 16-18 year olds: £17, under 16s: £3.

Now yes, the fact you can take your child for £3 to a game is fantastic, and should be applauded. But let's look at this realistically, do the majority of our regular away supporters take young children to every away game? No. Who are the key demographic that go to away games? I'd personally say 16-30 year olds, in terms of those who stand, sing and make an atmosphere. So if you're 16-18, you're paying £17 for a ticket, which is quite a lot considering many won't be in any sort of full-time employment at that age. And then if you're 19 years old, you're suddenly looking at paying a sum of £24 to see a bog-standard Premiership game in Scotland.

I don't dislike cheap kids tickets, but I am acutely aware of the fact that they sometimes seem to be used to cover for poor adult pricing. Wouldn't it be better if Motherwell charged £20 for an adult and £7 for an under 16? So yes to cheap family pricing, but equally let's be vigilant against clubs using good publicity from that as a means to increasing adult tickets on the quiet year-on-year.

[PatHead]

I accept your point completely, Hibs should never price out young kids from attending and I'm really pleased at what we've done to make football more affordable for families attending with their children.

But here's one issue I have with some clubs' pricing strategies for kids, and it's not a complaint at our club specifically, it goes on across the country. I'll use an example in our division - Motherwell, a club who are rightly applauded for some of the fantastic community work that they do. For January's game at Fir Park, their prices were as followed; adults: £24, over-65s, students and 16-18 year olds: £17, under 16s: £3.

Now yes, the fact you can take your child for £3 to a game is fantastic, and should be applauded. But let's look at this realistically, do they majority of our regular away supporters taking young children to every away game? No. Who are the key demographic that go to away games? I'd personally say 16-30 year olds, in terms of those who stand, sing and make an atmosphere. So if you're 16-18, you're paying £17 for a ticket, which is quite a lot considering many won't be in any sort of full-time employment at that age. And then if you're 19 years old, you're suddenly looking at paying a sum of £24 to see a bog-standard Premiership game in Scotland.

I don't dislike cheap kids tickets, but I am acutely aware of the fact that they sometimes seem to be used to cover for poor adult pricing. Wouldn't it be better if Motherwell charged £20 for an adult and £7 for an under 16? So yes to cheap family pricing, but equally let's be vigilant against clubs using good publicity from that as a means to increasing adult tickets on the quiet year-on-year.

Once before Motherwell reduced their prices. Ended up going into administration. Its not that simple, unfortunately.

[hibeerealist]

That's not a helpful thing to say as it's not true and it creates division.

I haven't read any posts saying that the SS shouldn't be relocated.

I have, however, read people, including myself, saying that Friday wasn't the time to do so and they gave valid reasons.
Those posters care about both the family section and the singing section, but there are those who have openly said that they don't care about the families.

That attitude isn't going to persuade anyone.

However, if the rumours are true about a safe standing area, I expect this will all be water under the bridge very soon. TFFT.

I get your point however the SS (or whoever spoke to HFC on this idea) have been hung out to dry, NOTHING from HFC to even confirm it was even discussed leading to accusations they made it up!!

It need not have grown arms and legs if HFC confirmed the position and simply said we may look again at this in future or words to that effect.

HFC saying nowt is their default position (virtually 100% of the time) thereby creating division even if they dont mean to, it could have been handled so much better. You get my point?

[hibeerealist]

This goes towards what I've been saying. Palace are a great example, their team is average at best, but as you say they are attracting young fans enthused by the reputation their version of Since 1875 and other fans in England are somewhat envious of the atmosphere being generated at Selhurst Park by a relatively small portion of fans.

Yes NN, I have been in the Holmesdale many times and their SS get everybody going (or at least those that want to sing) AND most commentators (TV and Radio) in the EPL never tire of referring to the "best atmosphere in the EPL/England".

Using Palace as an example is actually a great analogy and HFC should look at it and see where it can lead to in terms of atmosphere rather than resist these guys in 1875, come on Ron you know it makes sense (for some reason I do not think our CEO would but there you go).

[Peevemor]

I get your point however the SS (or whoever spoke to HFC on this idea) have been hung out to dry, NOTHING from HFC to even confirm it was even discussed leading to accusations they made it up!!

It need not have grown arms and legs if HFC confirmed the position and simply said we may look again at this in future or words to that effect.

HFC saying nowt is their default position (virtually 100% of the time) thereby creating division even if they dont mean to, it could have been handled so much better. You get my point?You're right. Hibs have said absolutely nothing.

The confusion and disagreement has been caused by people posting that the singing section was moving to the FF lower on Friday even though no arrangements had been made with the club.

But that's Hibs' fault?

[Hibbyradge]

I get your point however the SS (or whoever spoke to HFC on this idea) have been hung out to dry, NOTHING from HFC to even confirm it was even discussed leading to accusations they made it up!!

It need not have grown arms and legs if HFC confirmed the position and simply said we may look again at this in future or words to that effect.

HFC saying nowt is their default position (virtually 100% of the time) thereby creating division even if they dont mean to, it could have been handled so much better. You get my point?

I think everyone would have welcomed a statement about this from Hibs, but I'm not sure that it would really have helped.

People have taken the stance that they're more important to the club than both the families in the FF and ST holders in the top tiers of the stadium. Whatever explanation Hibs gave would just meet with the same arguments that we've seen on here.

Given the number of posts on these threads which have been completely misinterpreted, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has jumped the gun and assumed agreement when none had been confirmed.

If Hibs had promised me something, then gone back on their word, I'd be contacting them asking for an explanation. Has that happened? I don't know, but I haven't read an explanation anywhere.

To be frank, it looks like the SS people have had a bee in their bonnet about getting repositioned in the ground and didn't think this through before rushing to get it implemented.

The timeline of events suggest to me that it was never had a chance of getting off the ground. It might be oh so easy to the folk who want change, but it's far from simple and takes time and planning.

Some of the posts from those wanting to move have been utterly selfish and disgraceful. "F the families, we're more important' type posts were a disgrace.

[Sammy7nil]

This 100%. Great post, well said!

My son is 21 this year, despite my best efforts to make him a Hibby by taking him to games he was swayed (sadly) by 1 trip to Ibrox with his pals. Its was full, it was noisy, it was colorful. Simply put, he wont be the first or the last to do this. This in itself is where the club shoots itself firmly in the foot.

The fact this is popular in Germany is simple, as a fan, your the clubs number 1 priority, nothing else matters. I go to watch Union Berlin 4/5 times a year and have met the UK Social Media guy a few times that works for them. He's a glaswegian and has shown us round the stadium a couple of times and gave us great insight into the way the club works and the lengths they go to to accomodate the fans is unreal. The stadium holds roughly the same as ER and has 1 seated stand and the atmosphere is easily the best ive been to. Now you have to ask yourself how a club with a similar sized fanbase to ours operating mostly in the 2 Bundesliga is now punching well above its weight in the German Bundesliga? Absolutely get the team on the park is the main reason as they get the results but if you ask any of the players, staff or anyone involved with the club if the fans/ultras play a part they would say yes.

Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why they think this sort of model wouldnt work here? or why it shouldnt be at least given a good go?

IMO the club have moved backwards on this topic and just hammers home the fact that not only us fans of Hibs but most clubs in the UK we are so far down the pecking order of the clubs priorities its actually laughable.

I bet he will come back to Hibs he won't want to change as he will feel silly but he will keep the faith.

[Baldy]

Agree with all that except "other branches receive similar allocations".
Our branch from Linlithgow and Bo'ness has never been offered or received any type of group allocation for over 20 years and we are almost 100% season ticket holders. Would be interested to know who to contact to arrange 15-20 seats together at Tynie, Hampden, Ibrox, Tannadice, Falkirk et all.
Brian:thumbsup:

my point exactly

[HibeeHibernian4]

Spot on

Success on the park and everything else takes care of itself

But this objectively isn’t true and doesn’t work.

[Power]

Still a very useful thread. Conversations I’ve had today have been positive and there’s no doors shut - certainly open to positive change - but one thing any complete change (of any type) can’t be is rushed - we’ve already had a couple of stadium moves and upgrades for different reasons in recent years and any change needs a well thought out plan, executed correctly.

Looking at stuff like seating categorisation, stadium layout, a dedicated singing section, a dedicated family section, safe standing and other matchday touchpoints in isolation is really important - they might link but are very different components of the bigger conversation.

Season Ticket marketing is soon to be released for 2020/21 so there’s only so much changes that can be made short term but I’ve passed on as much information and Supporter download as I can to help with creating opportunities for us moving forward - more than confident the club will utilise all of that (I’ve mentioned previously they do appreciate feedback and are open to change but it needs to be done in the right way).

I’ll keep working with the club to keep on top of this and make sure we’re all making full use of their and our potential. If I can get more information out at the end of the month in the regular update I will.

Gies a shout if I can help with anything.

[Chuck Rhoades]

You're right. Hibs have said absolutely nothing.

The confusion and disagreement has been caused by people posting that the singing section was moving to the FF lower on Friday even though no arrangements had been made with the club.

But that's Hibs' fault?

Arrangements were made, with the club, which the group acted upon and the club done a u-turn on their position leading to this statement. This is fact.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Still a very useful thread. Conversations I’ve had today have been positive and there’s no doors shut - certainly open to positive change - but one thing any complete change (of any type) can’t be is rushed - we’ve already had a couple of stadium moves and upgrades for different reasons in recent years and any change needs a well thought out plan, executed correctly.

Looking at stuff like seating categorisation, stadium layout, a dedicated singing section, a dedicated family section, safe standing and other matchday touchpoints in isolation is really important - they might link but are very different components of the bigger conversation.

Season Ticket marketing is soon to be released for 2020/21 so there’s only so much changes that can be made short term but I’ve passed on as much information and Supporter download as I can to help with creating opportunities for us moving forward - more than confident the club will utilise all of that (I’ve mentioned previously they do appreciate feedback and are open to change but it needs to be done in the right way).

I’ll keep working with the club to keep on top of this and make sure we’re all making full use of their and our potential. If I can get more information out at the end of the month in the regular update I will.

Gies a shout if I can help with anything.

Cheers for the update K. Any word on the cancelled meeting being rearranged?

[Power]

Cheers for the update K. Any word on the cancelled meeting being rearranged?

Nothing on that specifically - ultimately it’s Ron they’ll want to meet and vice versa of course - but I do expect the group to have further contact from the club.

The group is a good influencer and all senior management at the club agree they contribute a lot. It’s about working and planning it in more (maximising the potential of this in amongst everything else the club is soon to release).