Famous Five Lower - Singing Section v ICT

[Onceinawhile]

To be fair to those pushing for it, we only need to look at a club like Killie or Aberdeen who've tried something like this recently.

Killie installed 300 or so safe standing seats behind the goals and now their home is a fortress, I could barely hear the BT sports commentators when we went down there. It obviously works as well, as we didn't come away with any points from that game.

Looking at the Aberdeen example, which is probably closer to what people are suggesting and look how well it worked for them. They had 6th place in league 1 Dumbarton and trialled putting everyone behind the one goal - end result - a fenerbache like atmosphere which roared the dons on to a huge win.

In addition, look at the average attendances for both clubs since then too - Through the roof.

[Radium]

We either have an entitled section of the support who pursues their own priorities without the support of the club, or

We have a club that doesn’t take the time to think through what they allow fans to try out and too late realise that they just can’t tear up their own ground rules.


Personally I don’t buy the idea that the fans are at fault here (either those trying to move the singing section or those that had bought tickets as normal).

What we have is another example of a Director of the club stepping into a vacuum left by the SLO.

Hopefully the plans that are about to be announced address this.








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[Barney McGrew]

When the alternative is sitting for 90 minutes and not contributing whatsoever to the atmosphere, then I think they should be treated with some sort of respect for the fact that, without them, Easter Road’s atmosphere would be even worse than it currently is

It used to be good a few years ago, mind. It’s not like this is an impossible task to make it decent again

So what exactly do you you expect this priority treatment they should be getting given to be?

[mcohibs]

I am 100% in favour of moving the singing section to FF lower but I don't think the club should be in for criticism when there's no evidence to suggest that for Friday there was ever actually a properly planned out strategy for moving them down there (including removal of ticket restrictions), bar someone on here posting that they 'heard through the grapevine' that the club agreed to it and have now backed down.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Yup.

And now they’ve decided they don’t like that place, then some people would like to see more long standing season ticket holders punted out their seats to make way for where they want to go this time.

Bottom line is, the atmosphere in the stadium is dictated largely by what’s going on on the pitch. The ground will be noisier when the team is doing a lot of attacking and playing good football.

They are trying to do something about the dreadful atmosphere I don’t think it has to do with “liking” anything?

We’re at risk of seeing the 2/300 up there packing it in completely then we’ll be even worse off than we are now which is unimaginable given how good the atmosphere only 3 seasons ago.

[Hibbyradge]

Honestly? I would say almost every single area at Easter Road is essentially a family stand right now (Hearts and OF games aside). The whole point of having a family section is it’s meant to differentiate from more boisterous areas. What our club (and a portion of our fans) seem to want is a sterile ground with an even more sterile area behind the goals. It’s just ridiculous, I will never stop criticising those who want the status quo to remain, they are completely and utterly wrong

Ok, but how do you feel about alienating those parents and children who have paid to sit there?

I'd be pissed off if you told me to move to somewhere I didn't want to go because someone who might not even have a ST wanted to sit there.

I don't read many people arguing that the status quo should be maintained indefinitely, but there's a way to do this, and the current suggestion isn't it.

[hibbysam]

There's absolutely no chance of that happening.

"I realise you and your mates have had a ST in that seat for many years, but you're going to have to sit in the last row of the lower tier."

"Aye, well you can stick next year's season tickets where the sun doesn't shine".

That would be totally self defeating.

It’s not a perk that’s noted at the time of the sales of season tickets, and if someone buys a season ticket purely because they can keep their own seat for cup games then I’d question their intentions.

Also, they wouldn’t have to sit in the last row of any lower tier, they could literally pick 90% of the seats as less than 10% have purchased a seat in the priority window, presumably much less than this are season ticket holders buying their own seat as some sold will be walk up supporters.

[Andy74]

Honestly? I would say almost every single area at Easter Road is essentially a family stand right now (Hearts and OF games aside). The whole point of having a family section is it’s meant to differentiate from more boisterous areas. What our club (and a portion of our fans) seem to want is a sterile ground with an even more sterile area behind the goals. It’s just ridiculous, I will never stop criticising those who want the status quo to remain, they are completely and utterly wrong

Why target the one area that is most definitely for families? There's a whole rest of the stadium to play with if you think everywhere is too quiet.

This thought that atmospheres need to be co-ordinated and accompanied by drums and so on is a bit odd. 4 or 5 of us together used to start songs left, right and centre from under the gantry back in the day.

If you are starting stuff folk know it takes off - if you are expecting whole stands to pick up the new tune of the day then it will be a non starter. The classics were all there for a reason!

[hibbysam]

Ok, but how do you feel about alienating those parents and children who have paid to sit there?

I'd be pissed off if you told me to move to somewhere I didn't want to go because someone who might not even have a ST wanted to sit there.

I don't read many people arguing that the status quo should be maintained indefinitely, but there's a way to do this, and the current suggestion isn't it.

Kids can sit beside the singing section, they’re not exclusive of each other. Why is everyone of the opinion that youngsters don’t want to sit beside within the atmosphere?

[Danderhall Hibs]

They are trying to do something about the dreadful atmosphere I don’t think it has to do with “liking” anything?

We’re at risk of seeing the 2/300 up there packing it in completely then we’ll be even worse off than we are now which is unimaginable given how good the atmosphere only 3 seasons ago.

Surely they wouldn’t stop supporting the club because they couldn’t sit in the FFL?

[hibbysam]

Your reckoning of probability may owe more to it fitting your own perceptions and bias than any meaningful canvassing of opinion. Here’s mine:

I’d take great exception to moving down to the lower tier and swapping that with my great seat - which is further from the potential bad weather, has a great view and is not squeezed into a narrower space. I appreciate the option to move for cup games but am disinclined to do so.

Why do folk want to close the west upper for some cup games? Is to try and force an ‘atmosphere’ or to look good for the cameras? If it is the former then they are flogging a horse well beyond rigour mortis - there has not really been an ‘atmosphere’ in the west since the old north wing standees could stamp their feet.:wink: Moving folk down from the tier above will not change that.

Custom and practice is that you can have your season seat for cup games which has been the case from when cup games were removed from the season ticket.

The atmosphere that folk are looking to return is one rooted in the ability to stand and congregate together as desired. The fan influenced choice of a single tier east stand in retrospect was a mistake not just for the lengthy time to exit but the steepness makes it harder for a standing area to be placed there, i.e. where the atmosphere had naturally occurred in particular after the ‘benching’ of the cave behind the goals.

Nothing to do with bias, well apart from wanting a better atmosphere really. I also couldn’t care about cameras, purely for atmosphere and costings for the club. If we don’t need to open the top tier then we shouldn’t, we don’t open the top tier of the away support if they are coming in small numbers and the same should be used for the home crowd for small cup games.

Everyone packed in tightly with no massive spaces in between leads to a better atmosphere as it suddenly feels fuller.

[Barney McGrew]

We’re at risk of seeing the 2/300 up there packing it in completely then we’ll be even worse off than we are now which is unimaginable given how good the atmosphere only 3 seasons ago.

Why would they stop going?

[theonlywayisup]

I've given this thread a miss, as I'm one of those that has a seat in the FFL. To be honest, I can't be bothered with entering into the debate, as I know I'll be shouted down.

My tuppence worth is that I would happily relocate from the FFL, however when I check to see what seats are currently available it's all single seats that's no use for my party of five. I'm sure that's the same with the family beside me, who have six tickets and those in front of me with four, and those beside them that have five etc etc. Yes, there's probably seats in the far ends of the East and West, but there's a reason no-one buys these seats - the view is rubbish.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if I was moved from our seats in the FFL I would probably not renew my party of five tickets. I like my seats and have built up a great friendship will the people beside me. If I was moved, I would likely pick and choose which games I go to and where I sit. The net result would be the loss of five season tickets, albeit the majority being kids.

No doubt I'll get the "but think about the atmosphere, that's what matters" response, which is why I'll abstain from this thread.

[ABZHFC]

Why target the one area that is most definitely for families? There's a whole rest of the stadium to play with if you think everywhere is too quiet.

This thought that atmospheres need to be co-ordinated and accompanied by drums and so on is a bit odd. 4 or 5 of us together used to start songs left, right and centre from under the gantry back in the day.

If you are starting stuff folk know it takes off - if you are expecting whole stands to pick up the new tune of the day then it will be a non starter. The classics were all there for a reason!

This is such a false argument, up there with “the atmosphere’s good when the team plays well”. Look around you on a match day. Look how few people actually stand for 90 minutes, never mind sing. It’s not like I’m harking back to a bygone era, the atmosphere in 2016 was booming some games.

Yes, the singing section made a mistake moving (although that was influenced by some people attaching themselves to the group and causing trouble), but that doesn’t mean they should be stuck there “because it will upset fans if they move again”

Truthfully, I do not care if a few fans are upset about losing their seat, I do not care one bit. It doesn’t influence the team’s performance on the pitch, which atmosphere actually does. So yes, I would move every family who didn’t want to sing, there are plenty of places in the ground for that. There are only one or two logical places for a singing section to be situated, and behind the goals is one of them

[ABZHFC]

Why would they stop going?

Because the club make it a thankless task, they wouldn’t stop attending altogether, but they may stop attending as an active group. That would be the final nail in the coffin for Easter Road’s atmosphere, and we therefore must do all we can to ensure it doesn’t happen. If that means upsetting people who sit on their hands for 90 minutes but happen to have an attachment to a piece of plastic in the FF lower, so be it - in my opinion

[Chorley Hibee]

We either have an entitled section of the support who pursues their own priorities without the support of the club, or

We have a club that doesn’t take the time to think through what they allow fans to try out and too late realise that they just can’t tear up their own ground rules.


Personally I don’t buy the idea that the fans are at fault here (either those trying to move the singing section or those that had bought tickets as normal).

What we have is another example of a Director of the club stepping into a vacuum left by the SLO.

Hopefully the plans that are about to be announced address this.








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Agree entirely on Kieran stepping in for the Supporter Liaison Officer.

I'd be surprised if most of our support were even aware we had a Supporter Liaison Officer, that says a lot in itself.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I've given this thread a miss, as I'm one of those that has a seat in the FFL. To be honest, I can't be bothered with entering into the debate, as I know I'll be shouted down.

My tuppence worth is that I would happily relocate from the FFL, however when I check to see what seats are currently available it's all single seats that's no use for my party of five. I'm sure that's the same with the family beside me, who have six tickets and those in front of me with four, and those beside them that have five etc etc. Yes, there's probably seats in the far ends of the East and West, but there's a reason no-one buys these seats - the view is rubbish.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if I was moved from our seats in the FFL I would probably not renew my party of five tickets. I like my seats and have built up a great friendship will the people beside me. If I was moved, I would likely pick and choose which games I go to and where I sit. The net result would be the loss of five season tickets, albeit the majority being kids.

No doubt I'll get the "but think about the atmosphere, that's what matters" response, which is why I'll abstain from this thread.

I know what you’re saying - I’m in the FFU and have looked the last couple of seasons for a move but trying to get more than 2 decent seats together elsewhere is impossible.

[oldbutdim]

Ok, but how do you feel about alienating those parents and children who have paid to sit there?

I'd be pissed off if you told me to move to somewhere I didn't want to go because someone who might not even have a ST wanted to sit there.

I don't read many people arguing that the status quo should be maintained indefinitely, but there's a way to do this, and the current suggestion isn't it.

I like where I sit. My sons are there, my mates are there, and the folk immediately behind me, and in front, are nice people.
I’d be furious if I was forced to move elsewhere, and given that I have really good folk around me – and that wouldn’t be guaranteed if I had to move, then maybe I’d reconsider renewing.
As it happens, my seat isn’t “in danger” as I am not far away from the current location of the SS guys and gals. To be honest, they don’t really make the ‘atmosphere’ any more exciting than it was previously before they re-located. I couldn’t really hear them when they were in the East, and now that I can ………… well…….. I’m ambivalent.
It’s great stuff ‘standing up if you hate the Hearts’ when your knees don’t complain about it.
I can well understand other folk also getting a bit miffed if they are forced to move away from what may be a ‘comfort zone’ and end up sitting within earshot of some walloper dishing out the abuse to our players.

[Hibbyradge]

It’s not a perk that’s noted at the time of the sales of season tickets, and if someone buys a season ticket purely because they can keep their own seat for cup games then I’d question their intentions.

Also, they wouldn’t have to sit in the last row of any lower tier, they could literally pick 90% of the seats as less than 10% have purchased a seat in the priority window, presumably much less than this are season ticket holders buying their own seat as some sold will be walk up supporters.

It's a well known arrangement whether someone has written it down or not.

All clubs give their ST members first refusal to buy their own seat for cup games and rightly so.

They're valuable to the club and should be treated as such.

What you're suggesting would be a huge, self defeating mistake and it just won't happen.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Agree entirely on Keith stepping in for the Supporter Liaison Officer.

I'd be surprised if most of our support were even aware we had a Supporter Liaison Officer, that says a lot in itself.

I didn’t realise we had an SLO - I had assumed it was Kieran.

[theonlywayisup]

This is such a false argument, up there with “the atmosphere’s good when the team plays well”. Look around you on a match day. Look how few people actually stand for 90 minutes, never mind sing. It’s not like I’m harking back to a bygone era, the atmosphere in 2016 was booming some games.

Yes, the singing section made a mistake moving (although that was influenced by some people attaching themselves to the group and causing trouble), but that doesn’t mean they should be stuck there “because it will upset fans if they move again”

Truthfully, I do not care if a few fans are upset about losing their seat, I do not care one bit. It doesn’t influence the team’s performance on the pitch, which atmosphere actually does. So yes, I would move every family who didn’t want to sing, there are plenty of places in the ground for that. There are only one or two logical places for a singing section to be situated, and behind the goals is one of them

Enough said. I'm out of here!

[Barney McGrew]

Because the club make it a thankless task, they wouldn’t stop attending altogether, but they may stop attending as an active group. That would be the final nail in the coffin for Easter Road’s atmosphere, and we therefore must do all we can to ensure it doesn’t happen. If that means upsetting people who sit on their hands for 90 minutes but happen to have an attachment to a piece of plastic in the FF lower, so be it - in my opinion

As far as I can see, the club has given quite a bit of leeway - they got to move to a different area of the ground when they all wanted seats together (the club even forcibly moved season ticket holders to make way for them), they’ve allowed various tifo displays and they even gave them priority/group tickets for some away games for a period.

What more do you expect them to do?

[Hibbyradge]

Because the club make it a thankless task, they wouldn’t stop attending altogether, but they may stop attending as an active group. That would be the final nail in the coffin for Easter Road’s atmosphere, and we therefore must do all we can to ensure it doesn’t happen. If that means upsetting people who sit on their hands for 90 minutes but happen to have an attachment to a piece of plastic in the FF lower, so be it - in my opinion

So on the one hand you don't care if some folk have to move because better fans than them want to sit there.

And on the other hand these "better fans" will stop going if they can't get their own way. They're not that good fans if that's the case.

There is zero chance that the club is going to insult current season ticket holders by telling them that they aren't good enough fans to sit in their paid for seat anymore.

[Heedersnvolleys]

From my view in the east the FF attendance could fit in either the lower or upper. That and the main stand attendance is really poor. I totally support the singing section trying new ideas to increase atmosphere. Really poor that the club don’t support there ideas. Just look at the continent and even spurs new ground they are actually designing grounds to help create atmosphere. Our club is doing very little if anything to create atmosphere. I actually feel for the guy on the mike introducing the players he try’s his hardest to get a shout for the players and generally gives up after a few as there is no enthusiasm for it.

[bigwheel]

Can I ask those involved ...why not head back towards section 42/43?? That’s where most of the other signing comes from these days

[Hibbyradge]

I like where I sit. My sons are there, my mates are there, and the folk immediately behind me, and in front, are nice people.
I’d be furious if I was forced to move elsewhere, and given that I have really good folk around me – and that wouldn’t be guaranteed if I had to move, then maybe I’d reconsider renewing.
As it happens, my seat isn’t “in danger” as I am not far away from the current location of the SS guys and gals. To be honest, they don’t really make the ‘atmosphere’ any more exciting than it was previously before they re-located. I couldn’t really hear them when they were in the East, and now that I can ………… well…….. I’m ambivalent.
It’s great stuff ‘standing up if you hate the Hearts’ when your knees don’t complain about it.
I can well understand other folk also getting a bit miffed if they are forced to move away from what may be a ‘comfort zone’ and end up sitting within earshot of some walloper dishing out the abuse to our players.

All good points.

[h1bs4life]

I'm in the famous five and good on the young team trying to create an atmoshpere . The East of the stadium has always been where any singing has come from, the old East Terracing , old East Stand and the new East. Probably been answered before why did they move from the East? Why don't they go back to the East for this game ? Closer to the away fans and less likely to get outsung by 300 away fans. More likely to get more same minded fans joining in creating better atmosphere. How many people moved over from the East to joing the signing section in the FF upper.

[davhibby]

I didn’t realise we had an SLO - I had assumed it was Kieran.

That in itself is an issue. Most other clubs’ SLO have a decent presence on social media etc yet most Hibs fans won’t even know ours exists. It’s the first I’ve heard of us having one too. Dempster has done a lot of good but match day experience and fan engagement on matters like this are things she’s got massively wrong by mostly just trying to ignore things and hope they go away instead of actually talking to the fans

[Peevemor]

Agree entirely on Kieran stepping in for the Supporter Liaison Officer.

I'd be surprised if most of our support were even aware we had a Supporter Liaison Officer, that says a lot in itself.To be fair, it's the sort of job that only gets noticed when it's not being done properly.

[Chorley Hibee]

I didn’t realise we had an SLO - I had assumed it was Kieran.

No, Colin Millar is his name, but the fact many people aren't even aware of him is a poor reflection on him and the club.

[Mikey]

You need to work with the FF Lower ST holders, not against them. They're not your enemy.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Can I ask those involved ...why not head back towards section 42/43?? That’s where most of the other signing comes from these days

It would be great if we actually had 2 areas which created atmosphere

[ABZHFC]

To put aside all the other comments on this thread, I too am stunned to learn we have an SLO, particularly when you see how interactive Aberdeen’s and St Johnstone’s ones are on social media

[Logie Green]

From my view in the east the FF attendance could fit in either the lower or upper. That and the main stand attendance is really poor. I totally support the singing section trying new ideas to increase atmosphere. Really poor that the club don’t support there ideas. Just look at the continent and even spurs new ground they are actually designing grounds to help create atmosphere. Our club is doing very little if anything to create atmosphere. I actually feel for the guy on the mike introducing the players he try’s his hardest to get a shout for the players and generally gives up after a few as there is no enthusiasm for it.

Re your last sentence. I think part of the reason that there is no build up of atmosphere just before kick off is that the 'stadium announcer'' shouts into
the microphone and plays ear splitting crap music right until a ball is kicked. Perhaps if he toned it down or kept quiet for 10 minutes before kick off things might prove.

This also applies to the atmosphere after a goal is scored. Why is there a need to play music? We know what to do when a goal is scored. We don't need a 'look at me' announcer to kept us right.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Surely they wouldn’t stop supporting the club because they couldn’t sit in the FFL?

Of course not, I meant their efforts in terms of trying to proactively create an atmosphere / vocally the team along with visual displays etc. Seems like their fighting a losing battle here in terms of the non-existence of SLO / lack of comms with the club.

[malcolm]

Nothing to do with bias, well apart from wanting a better atmosphere really. I also couldn’t care about cameras, purely for atmosphere and costings for the club. If we don’t need to open the top tier then we shouldn’t, we don’t open the top tier of the away support if they are coming in small numbers and the same should be used for the home crowd for small cup games.

Everyone packed in tightly with no massive spaces in between leads to a better atmosphere as it suddenly feels fuller.

Maybe you’d have the directors and hospitality moved down too? :greengrin. I just don’t agree that the main stand attendees will suddenly start singing and bouncing just because there is someone sitting beside them - it does not work for other games. ( Though as to feeling fuller, I may have been known to let a bit of atmosphere escape when I’ve overindulged enough to feel overly full but I don’t think that is conducive to a good atmosphere among anyone nearby :wink:)

[Chorley Hibee]

To put aside all the other comments on this thread, I too am stunned to learn we have an SLO, particularly when you see how interactive Aberdeen’s and St Johnstone’s ones are on social media

Agreed, got to wonder what is going on when most of the support aren't even aware he exists.

You'd have thought interacting with the support would have been a prerequisite of the position.

[Carheenlea]

Can I ask those involved ...why not head back towards section 42/43?? That’s where most of the other signing comes from these days

I`d agree with this. The East is historically the home of the more vocal elements of the support, and whether it is high up in the stand or down the front where the group was sited a couple of years back, it would be the more natural area for the 1875 group and would be met with less opposition from those who regularly sit in the East.

Buy up a block in there for the game on Friday and see how it compares to normal?


To be fair to those pushing for it, we only need to look at a club like Killie or Aberdeen who've tried something like this recently.

Killie installed 300 or so safe standing seats behind the goals and now their home is a fortress, I could barely hear the BT sports commentators when we went down there. It obviously works as well, as we didn't come away with any points from that game.

Looking at the Aberdeen example, which is probably closer to what people are suggesting and look how well it worked for them. They had 6th place in league 1 Dumbarton and trialled putting everyone behind the one goal - end result - a fenerbache like atmosphere which roared the dons on to a huge win.

In addition, look at the average attendances for both clubs since then too - Through the roof.

There were about 30 Killie fans (and that's estimating very generously) stood in their safe standing area, and the only noise was coming for their small group sited next to the Hibs fans up the back of the stand where the cameras are. Probably where the mics picked it up too.
Aberdeen are unique in the sense that they have two ends populated by home fans making it an easier experiment, but a "Fenerbahçe" like atmosphere? Let`s not get carried away.

Get the group back in the East for this game and see how it differs from the norm - what`s there to lose?

[hibbyfraelibby]

Can I ask those involved ...why not head back towards section 42/43?? That’s where most of the other signing comes from these days

Agreed East Stand is where they belong. Its where the sponaneous singing and atmosphere is generated, without any Capos directing them. Instead of displacing a thousand people the few hundred core group with the drum could surely relocate themselve back to the East into whatever seats are avaikable to movers and leave the families alone.

[Baldy]

So what exactly do you you expect this priority treatment they should be getting given to be?

they are already given priority ... look at Tynecastle on boxing day, they got a huge amount of tickets allocated to them before they went on sale to the rest of the season ticket holders which was wrong.

I wouldn't have an issue for example if they took a guaranteed 50 tickets for EVERY away game and they got it for tynie as well, but they only go to a few games a season as a group that large so for them to have been given what looked like 200 tickets for Tynie was outrageous.

its the same with supporter buses that go to every game like the Carlton and 2016 to name 2,
if these buses asked for 40 tickets for every away game then, I would have no problem with the club giving them priority for the ones where tickets are at a premium, (i.e. Tynie, celtic, Ibrox and cup matches). what I don't like is when the club allows the Singing section to get the amount of tickets they do for Tynecastle.
It was the same earlier in the season when Ibrox sold out quickly, yet somehow the singing section took a huge number through and miraculously all were together, but a few weeks ago there was probably about 20 of them there in total.

[Peevemor]

Agreed, got to wonder what is going on when most of the support aren't even aware he exists.

You'd have thought interacting with the support would have been a prerequisite of the position.Most of the support don't need to know he exists.

[Baldy]

the singing section to move to the West stand, we have people who sing in the east .. maybe the singing section can teach the west to sing ... i'm sure that having 2 sides singing would make it a good atmosphere

[BroxburnHibee]

The entitlement in this thread is giving me the boak!

[Barney McGrew]

The entitlement in this thread is giving me the boak!

:agree:

[hibbysam]

It's a well known arrangement whether someone has written it down or not.

All clubs give their ST members first refusal to buy their own seat for cup games and rightly so.

They're valuable to the club and should be treated as such.

What you're suggesting would be a huge, self defeating mistake and it just won't happen.

Aberdeen obviously don’t going by their initiative last month. We have less than 10% take up of the offer, so we are now looking after this minority over any others. For all we know they may be buying their seats in the window for the discount, because it’s easy (don’t need to look for other seats as it’s a notification). I’m sure a simple question at renewal time ‘would you stop renewing your season ticket if you weren’t guaranteed to purchase it for small cup ties’ would give a big indication.

[cmcd]

Agreed, got to wonder what is going on when most of the support aren't even aware he exists.

You'd have thought interacting with the support would have been a prerequisite of the position.

I am a 70year old pensioner who has been in the FF Lower for years .I love my seat as do my family and friends . I would be happy moving to the FFU as long as my family and friends could come with me .

[Peevemor]

Aberdeen obviously don’t going by their initiative last month. We have less than 10% take up of the offer, so we are now looking after this minority over any others. For all we know they may be buying their seats in the window for the discount, because it’s easy (don’t need to look for other seats as it’s a notification). I’m sure a simple question at renewal time ‘would you stop renewing your season ticket if you weren’t guaranteed to purchase it for small cup ties’ would give a big indication.They've already chosen their seats in the family section. There are various reasons why they might do this.

Is that so difficult to understand or respect?

[HTD1875]

Oh well looking forward to this again then.

[hibbysam]

They've already chosen their seats in the family section. There are various reasons why they might do this.

Is that so difficult to understand or respect?

For league games. Less than 10% have taken up the option to buy their ticket for this cup tie, is that so hard for people to understand or respect the wishes of the rest of our support?

[hibbysam]

Oh well looking forward to this again then.

But but but respect the majority.

[Chorley Hibee]

Most of the support don't need to know he exists.

Well if that is the case then there is no need for the position.

It's laughable we have a Supporter Liaison Officer who doesn't liaise with the support.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Well if that is the case then there is no need for the position.

It's laughable we have a Supporter Liaison Officer who doesn't liaise with the support.

What is the role for? If I don’t know about it/who it is why/how would I be able to get in touch?

Or do they only contact you after you’ve complained to another part of the club?

[HibeeHibernian4]

Yup.

And now they’ve decided they don’t like that place, then some people would like to see more long standing season ticket holders punted out their seats to make way for where they want to go this time.

Bottom line is, the atmosphere in the stadium is dictated largely by what’s going on on the pitch. The ground will be noisier when the team is doing a lot of attacking and playing good football.

This first bit is so disingenuous it hurts.

What do you reckon is more likely to have happened: the singing section went “aye we’ll take that practically empty section tucked away up in the corner of the Famous Five please”, or the club told them that they’d go to the block that had the fewest season tickets and thus would cause the least the amount of fuss?

The narrative of “oh the ultras are picking and choosing over everyone else” has been done to death on forums of many other clubs. Celtic, Rangers, Crystal Palace etc. The common thing that underpins the people who push this ***** is that they have no sense of the bigger picture.

What actually happened here is that the club, instead of picking the best solution at first that would’ve benefitted everyone in the long term, tried to find a halfway house compromise solution with the current location. It hasn’t worked out for obvious reasons such as acoustics and positioning. Don’t pretend that’s the fault of the section or that they’re demanding a new place and won’t like that one either.

And to quickly nip your “if what’s going on on the pitch is good the atmosphere will follow” myth, Aberdeen have had regular 2nd place finishes and their 2016-17 team was one of their best in recent memory. Did the atmosphere improve? No. Was it better atmosphere wise when they scraped past Dumbarton 1-0 in January because their chairman went out of the way to create an organised, active support behind the goals? Yes.

Your view of how atmosphere works is outdated. Look at the continent, look at America, they know that the way to improve atmospheres is to have sections that are dedicated to creating them. Most Hibs fans sit on their hands at home games, and the few of us in the East who do sing are almost viewed with suspicion by some. The entire culture has to change in Scotland, from the boardrooms, to the police, to the fans themselves. It has all become way too sanitised and frankly boring. We smugly call the EPL a tourist league, but I fail to see what it matters where somebody’s born if our own fans contribute just as little to the atmosphere as your average Anfield tourist.

[Chorley Hibee]

What is the role for? If I don’t know about it/who it is why/how would I be able to get in touch?

Or do they only contact you after you’ve complained to another part of the club?

Not a clue, but from his title I'd guess that his role is to achieve a working relationship between the club and its supporters.

Given very few are even aware who he is, and that there seems to be no answer to the current FFL fiasco, then it's fair to question just what his remit entails?

Whatever it is, it certainly isn't working.

[Blaster]

For league games. Less than 10% have taken up the option to buy their ticket for this cup tie, is that so hard for people to understand or respect the wishes of the rest of our support?

Since you seem to know, what’s my wishes? Just curious

[Barney McGrew]

This first bit is so disingenuous it hurts.

What do you reckon is more likely to have happened: the singing section went “aye we’ll take that practically empty section tucked away up in the corner of the Famous Five please”, or the club told them that they’d go to the block that had the fewest season tickets and thus would cause the least the amount of fuss?

The narrative of “oh the ultras are picking and choosing over everyone else” has been done to death on forums of many other clubs. Celtic, Rangers, Crystal Palace etc. The common thing that underpins the people who push this ***** is that they have no sense of the bigger picture.

What actually happened here is that the club, instead of picking the best solution at first that would’ve benefitted everyone in the long term, tried to find a halfway house compromise solution with the current location. It hasn’t worked out for obvious reasons such as acoustics and positioning. Don’t pretend that’s the fault of the section or that they’re demanding a new place and won’t like that one either.

And to quickly nip your “if what’s going on on the pitch is good the atmosphere will follow” myth, Aberdeen have had regular 2nd place finishes and their 2016-17 team was one of their best in recent memory. Did the atmosphere improve? No. Was it better atmosphere wise when they scraped past Dumbarton 1-0 in January because their chairman went out of the way to create an organised, active support behind the goals? Yes.

Your view of how atmosphere works is outdated. Look at the continent, look at America, they know that the way to improve atmospheres is to have sections that are dedicated to creating them. Most Hibs fans sit on their hands at home games, and the few of us in the East who do sing are almost viewed with suspicion by some. The entire culture has to change in Scotland, from the boardrooms, to the police, to the fans themselves. It has all become way too sanitised and frankly boring. We smugly call the EPL a tourist league, but I fail to see what it matters where somebody’s born if our own fans contribute just as little to the atmosphere as your average Anfield tourist.

The sense of utter entitlement shines though. Even though the club have bent over backwards to give you an area to all stand in, it’s still not good enough.

Anyone that doesn’t follow your party line is ‘outdated’ and ‘has no sense of the bigger picture’, and ‘the entire culture has to change’.

Your group makes up a tiny fraction of the attendees at Easter Road, and like it or not you’re no more or no less important than any other person that turns up to watch the team on a Saturday afternoon or Wednesday nigh whether they have a drum, sing or don’t sing. Just because your group disagrees with how things currently are does not mean that large swathes of the support need to fall in with that. There’s plenty people who’ve been going to Easter Road since before any of you were born that probably like things the way they are.

You really need to start thinking about how you engage with other parts of the support as well as the club, IMHO.

[Chuck Rhoades]

The sense of utter entitlement shines though.

Anyone that doesn’t follow your party line is ‘outdated’ and ‘has no sense of the bigger picture’, and ‘the entire culture has to change’.

Your group makes up a tiny fraction of the attendees at Easter Road, and like it or not you’re no more or no less important than any other person that turns up to watch the team on a Saturday afternoon or Wednesday nigh whether they have a drum, sing or don’t sing. Just because your group disagrees with how things currently are does not mean that large swathes of the support need to fall in with that. There’s plenty people who’ve been going to Easter Road since before any of you were born that probably like things the way they are.

The last thing we need is a divide between parts of our support either. Hibs could help things by better communication across the piece. They failed to communicate out the original plans, I see Since 1875 tried to at least do that. Then club u-turn after feedback from a couple of supporters.

Better engagement, planning and communication required.

[HibeeHibernian4]

As far as I can see, the club has given quite a bit of leeway - they got to move to a different area of the ground when they all wanted seats together (the club even forcibly moved season ticket holders to make way for them), they’ve allowed various tifo displays and they even gave them priority/group tickets for some away games for a period.

What more do you expect them to do?

Your perception of fan culture is so hilariously warped if you think that it’s the ultras who benefit from tifos, rather than the players + the club. It suggests you know zero about this topic and should stay well clear of it to avoid further embarrassment.

[hibbysam]

Since you seem to know, what’s my wishes? Just curious

I think you’ve missed the sarcasm of my post replying to someone who is presuming that no youngsters want the singing section beside them. The views of the support as a whole will be wide ranging when it comes to getting to the correct outcome, what shouldn’t be wide ranging is the fact the club should be looking to maximise sales and create a much better atmosphere, and in my opinion for cup games that won’t be anywhere near a sell out, closing top tiers and end sections is the way to do that, as well as getting rid of a family section that houses 2/300 at most come kick off time.

[Barney McGrew]

Your perception of fan culture is so hilariously warped if you think that it’s the ultras who benefit from tifos, rather than the players + the club. It suggests you know zero about this topic and should stay well clear of it to avoid further embarrassment.

:faf:

Wow. Just wow.

[Barney McGrew]

The last thing we need is a divide between parts of our support either

Thats one thing we can agree on :agree:

[Andy74]

This is such a false argument, up there with “the atmosphere’s good when the team plays well”. Look around you on a match day. Look how few people actually stand for 90 minutes, never mind sing. It’s not like I’m harking back to a bygone era, the atmosphere in 2016 was booming some games.

Yes, the singing section made a mistake moving (although that was influenced by some people attaching themselves to the group and causing trouble), but that doesn’t mean they should be stuck there “because it will upset fans if they move again”

Truthfully, I do not care if a few fans are upset about losing their seat, I do not care one bit. It doesn’t influence the team’s performance on the pitch, which atmosphere actually does. So yes, I would move every family who didn’t want to sing, there are plenty of places in the ground for that. There are only one or two logical places for a singing section to be situated, and behind the goals is one of them

If any of you are speaking with the club in his way then I don’t fancy your chances of getting much back.

[Chuck Rhoades]

If any of you are speaking with the club in his way then I don’t fancy your chances of getting much back.

He’s nothing to do with the group.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Your perception of fan culture is so hilariously warped if you think that it’s the ultras who benefit from tifos, rather than the players + the club. It suggests you know zero about this topic and should stay well clear of it to avoid further embarrassment.


...and you appear to have no perception of how arrogantly self entitled and obnoxious you are begining to sound. Step away from the keyboard.

[BroxburnHibee]

The last thing we need is a divide between parts of our support either. Hibs could help things by better communication across the piece. They failed to communicate out the original plans, I see Since 1875 tried to at least do that. Then club u-turn after feedback from a couple of supporters.

Better engagement, planning and communication required.

Maybe they didnt communicate the 'plans' because nothing had actually been agreed?

At the moment it seems like there's only one point of view being posted as fact.

[HFC93]

From afar, the folk involved with the signing section have always struck me as rebel without a cause type chrachters. If they were a bit more diplomatic they might get their way a bit more.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Maybe they didnt communicate the 'plans' because nothing had actually been agreed?

At the moment it seems like there's only one point of view being posted as fact.

Agreed. Which is why the club need to state their case.

[Blaster]

I think you’ve missed the sarcasm of my post replying to someone who is presuming that no youngsters want the singing section beside them. The views of the support as a whole will be wide ranging when it comes to getting to the correct outcome, what shouldn’t be wide ranging is the fact the club should be looking to maximise sales and create a much better atmosphere, and in my opinion for cup games that won’t be anywhere near a sell out, closing top tiers and end sections is the way to do that, as well as getting rid of a family section that houses 2/300 at most come kick off time.

👍. For what it’s worth, my youngest son is in the family section and would love the singing section beside him! He also rarely misses any games.

My view is that the singing section would be best in the east and sure that’s what the majority who replied to the survey thought. However if they want to try the FF lower then it needs to be done properly for next season.

Trial it in the league cup group stages (if we are in them). State to season ticket holders in sections 19 & 20 that these will be used as singing section for cup games next season. They can join in or get first priority for seats elsewhere. But this has to be communicated in advance otherwise folk will quite rightly be unhappy

[Hibbyradge]

Agreed. Which is why the club need to state their case.

Has anyone actually properly approached the club?

I very much doubt that any agreement was reached. It's even less likely that it was agreed verbally.

[Hibs90]

Hibs have an SLO? He/She seems to be anonymous. Celtic/Rangers/Hearts etc all have one that I'm aware of and they act like it and interact with fans on social media, e-mail, in person. I genuinely had no idea Hibs had one.

Why is he or she so anonymous?

[Peevemor]

Well if that is the case then there is no need for the position.

It's laughable we have a Supporter Liaison Officer who doesn't liaise with the support.Supporter's will contact the club for a variety of different reasons.

When you go to the contact section on the official site, here are the choices you are given.

Why do you need to know if there's an SLO or who he/she is? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200224/338f2179a9c3daf65d8c8385ab3ca38e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200224/8e65806db819d45d8a80395448477c5d.jpg

[Peevemor]

Agreed. Which is why the club need to state their case.If the club had to respond every time somebody posted pish on here (myself included), there'd be more staff than fans.

[B.H.F.C]

👍. For what it’s worth, my youngest son is in the family section and would love the singing section beside him! He also rarely misses any games.

I think this is quite an important point. Kids are probably the most likely to join in. When you talk about trying to engage kids and effectively turn them in to supporters, turning up to ER every second week and having a bit fun as opposed to rattling around a section that is half full at best, is more likely to do that IMO.

The area of the ground is surely big enough to serve both purposes.

[HibeeHibernian4]

The sense of utter entitlement shines though. Even though the club have bent over backwards to give you an area to all stand in, it’s still not good enough.

Anyone that doesn’t follow your party line is ‘outdated’ and ‘has no sense of the bigger picture’, and ‘the entire culture has to change’.

Your group makes up a tiny fraction of the attendees at Easter Road, and like it or not you’re no more or no less important than any other person that turns up to watch the team on a Saturday afternoon or Wednesday nigh whether they have a drum, sing or don’t sing. Just because your group disagrees with how things currently are does not mean that large swathes of the support need to fall in with that. There’s plenty people who’ve been going to Easter Road since before any of you were born that probably like things the way they are.

You really need to start thinking about how you engage with other parts of the support as well as the club, IMHO.

If you read what I said, I sit/sometimes stand at the top of the East (44). I know a couple of people who used to be in the old Section 43 ultras group that sadly disbanded, but that’s as far as my involvement with any singing section goes.

The “entitlement” that you’re seeing is entirely a reflection on yourself. I don’t think it’d be unfair to suggest based on your posts that you’re of an older generation and maybe have an irrational dislike of the “youth these days”.

What I am telling you are objective truths. Atmosphere affects results. We as fans, and even the board, can’t control exactly what happens on the pitch. You know what we are in control of though? The atmosphere, and how best that can be created. It is another objective truth that the best, most vocal stands in world football are located directly behind the goals.

Simply put, atmosphere affects the outcomes of football matches to a varying degree. I think it was no coincidence for example that our home record against Celtic improved significantly when they and their Green Brigade IRA nonsense were cut down to half a stand a few seasons back.

If you agree on that, and concede that atmospheres do affect football matches, then surely you would like Hibs to have a good atmosphere, and therefore would like to see the club do what they can to accommodate this? It’s not preferential treatment because what the people in that current section are doing amounts to a pretty thankless task. And if it’s not a thankless task, then why does hardly anybody else in the ground (including many hundreds of people dotted around me in the south end of the East) want to sing?

[hibbyfraelibby]

If the club had to respond every time somebody posted pish on here (myself included), there'd be more staff than fans.

...and they'd have to be moved to accommodate the South Leith Singing Sopranos who'd want their seats.

[Chorley Hibee]

Supporter's will contact the club for a variety of different reasons.

When you go to the contact section on the official site, here are the choices you are given.

Why do you need to know if there's an SLO or who he/she is? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200224/338f2179a9c3daf65d8c8385ab3ca38e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200224/8e65806db819d45d8a80395448477c5d.jpg

So you think there is no need for the support to be aware that we have a designated "Supporter Liaison Officer"?

Surely his title is a misnomer then?

As I mentioned previously, I would have thought a prerequisite of being "Supporter Liaison Officer" would be to make our support aware of his position and his remit.

Seemingly not though.

[HibeeHibernian4]

From afar, the folk involved with the signing section have always struck me as rebel without a cause type chrachters. If they were a bit more diplomatic they might get their way a bit more.

If they want my advice then I think they should rebel far more. From everything I’ve read on here, no matter how many official channels they go through, the usual suspects will circle the wagons and find something to complain about.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Why do you need to know if there's an SLO or who he/she is?

...because it’s a supporter’s liaison officer?...

[Hibbyradge]

If they want my advice then I think they should rebel far more. From everything I’ve read on here, no matter how many official channels they go through, the usual suspects will circle the wagons and find something to complain about.

You're one of the complainants.

[Since452]

The Motherwell ultras never stop singing. Winning, drawing or losing. The atmosphere at Fir Park with around 5k is brilliant. That's mainly because the ultras are right next to the pitch not tucked away in an area where the acoustics are crap because touchline stand is hidden behind the corner of the stand they're in. How much has that contributed to them being 3rd in the league? Who knows but it won't be doing it any harm.

When our ultras were at the bottom of the east stand it was the best atmospheres in my 30 years going to Easter Road. Been said countless times but it just doesn't work in the corner of the FF upper. We know the acoustics of the South lower are good because we're outsung every second week so same rules would apply to the FF lower. A new place needs to be found and the FF lower would be perfect both acoustically and visually. Do people's seats really mean that much to them that they'd refuse to move somewhere else? Really? For one game where the stadium is going to be half empty? Personally I'd watch Hibs anywhere in the ground and would sacrifice my seat if I felt it was going to help the team.

[h1bs4life]

I think you’ve missed the sarcasm of my post replying to someone who is presuming that no youngsters want the singing section beside them. The views of the support as a whole will be wide ranging when it comes to getting to the correct outcome, what shouldn’t be wide ranging is the fact the club should be looking to maximise sales and create a much better atmosphere, and in my opinion for cup games that won’t be anywhere near a sell out, closing top tiers and end sections is the way to do that, as well as getting rid of a family section that houses 2/300 at most come kick off time.

Keep seeing shut the upper tiers for certain cup games , what are these certain cup games?
Could you explain how that would work in real world. Capacity with top tiers closed approximately 12000. Usually about 3 weeks between ties.
Potentially 13500 season ticket holders going for 12000 seats. No reserved seats anywhere, majority not able to add it to there season ticket so its print at home , get it posted at extra cost , extra work for the ticket office staff or head up to Easter Road to pick it up.
If for some reason bigger pick up than expected then open up top tiers and sell them.
What about replays against smaller teams?

[Peevemor]

So you think there is no need for the support to be aware that we have a designated "Supporter Liaison Officer"?

Surely his title is a misnomer then?

As I mentioned previously, I would have thought a prerequisite of being "Supporter Liaison Officer" would be to make our support aware of his position and his remit.

Seemingly not though.Not necessarily, no.

If his/her name and position were advertised then they'd in all likelihood be inundated with calls/emails that have nothing to do with them.

As it stands the SLO will deal with the appropriate queries/issues that are passed on to him.

If you need something dealt with that's falls under his remit, you'll be put on to him whether or not you knew he existed.

[Peevemor]

If they want my advice then I think they should rebel far more. From everything I’ve read on here, no matter how many official channels they go through, the usual suspects will circle the wagons and find something to complain about.Who's doing the complaining here?

[hibeerealist]

If the club had to respond every time somebody posted pish on here (myself included), there'd be more staff than fans.


You are very much against this Peevemor I aint got time to go through all the different posts just interested to hear why you and maybe some others are dead against?

This might help me understand all this animosity between Hibs fans.

[hibbysam]

Keep seeing shut the upper tiers for certain cup games , what are these certain cup games?
Could you explain how that would work in real world. Capacity with top tiers closed approximately 12000. Usually about 3 weeks between ties.
Potentially 13500 season ticket holders going for 12000 seats. No reserved seats anywhere, majority not able to add it to there season ticket so its print at home , get it posted at extra cost , extra work for the ticket office staff or head up to Easter Road to pick it up.
If for some reason bigger pick up than expected then open up top tiers and sell them.
What about replays against smaller teams?

Quite easy to be fair. Any cup tie that isn’t against the old firm, hearts and potentially Aberdeen as they bring a fair away crowd gives the club 3 and a half stands to play with. When was the last cup tie outwith these 4 teams did we sell 12000 or more home tickets? Print at home tickets are automatic, no need for the club to do anything, as for the rest we are now paying for that service, it’s more than enough time to print and sort tickets out without any real hassle.

If it gets down to the last few hundred seats in any stand you then open a few upper sections. It’s really not hard.

[Chorley Hibee]

Not necessarily, no.

If his/her name and position were advertised then they'd in all likelihood be inundated with calls/emails that have nothing to do with them.

As it stands the SLO will deal with the appropriate queries/issues that are passed on to him.

If you need something dealt with that's falls under his remit, you'll be put on to him whether or not you knew he existed.

It's interesting then that various other club's SLOs have made themselves visible to their support and embraced supporter engagement.

Meanwhile our SLO stays in the shadows and awaits items within his remit being passed to him.

I know which one of the above appeals to me as a supporter.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Who's doing the complaining here?

You?...

Right let’s walk through this shall we.

Post number one was from somebody within the singing section:


Now that the season ticket priority is over and sales in the famous five lower have been poor, we are going to use this opportunity to try this area as a singing section for the game.

We encourage anyone that would like to create a great atmosphere and back the team into a semi final to join us.

We as a group will be in and around section 19.

If you have already bought tickets elsewhere, we are sure the ticket office would help in changing your ticket to the FF lower.

We understand that people have already bought tickets in this area. We hope us moving there won't cause too much inconvenience and if you do not want to be a part of it, you won't mind moving to one of the many empty areas in the Famous Five.

Here is the very first reply - a complaint:

We’re at the edge of 20 and if you’re all standing and my old man who has a bad knee can’t see - it’ll kick off.
Are you all being instructed not to stand?

People like you and a few others (I think the .net rules mean I’m not supposed to name posters so I’ll refrain from doing so) descend onto this thread and begin the very boring routine of circling the wagons. I could find another ten threads where basically identical posts have been written by posters with your school of thought.

People who are pro the section moving grow less and less conciliatory and diplomatic towards you as you become more and more stubborn. What is the point in doing so when you keep throwing back the same tired nonsense?

[Peevemor]

You are very much against this Peevemor I aint got time to go through all the different posts just interested to hear why you and maybe some others are dead against?

This might help me understand all this animosity between Hibs fans.I'm not against anything other than people wrongly and unfairly criticising the club.

Some people are very vocally accusing the club of going back on an agreement which I don't believe was ever in place.

Now the same people are having a go at family stand ST holders who don't necessarily want the singing section in beside them.

Having the singing section in the FF lower might be a great idea, but it's not something that's going to happen mid season.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Quite easy to be fair. Any cup tie that isn’t against the old firm, hearts and potentially Aberdeen as they bring a fair away crowd gives the club 3 and a half stands to play with. When was the last cup tie outwith these 4 teams did we sell 12000 or more home tickets? Print at home tickets are automatic, no need for the club to do anything, as for the rest we are now paying for that service, it’s more than enough time to print and sort tickets out without any real hassle.

If it gets down to the last few hundred seats in any stand you then open a few upper sections. It’s really not hard.

It’s not hard, but this is .net and what a select few posters on here excel at doing is creating problems that don’t currently, and may never, exist. It’s a shame as they spoil what is largely a good forum. It’s an instinctive, reactionary style of bureaucracy that they are specialists in.

[Chorley Hibee]

If his/her name and position were advertised then they'd in all likelihood be inundated with calls/emails that have nothing to do with them.

You make an interesting point here, and I think this is exactly what is happening with many supporters and Kieran right now.

I think that is because many supporters aren't even aware we have a Supporters Liaison Officer and are taking queries etc to Kieran instead.

[Chuck Rhoades]

I'm not against anything other than people wrongly and unfairly criticising the club.

Some people are very vocally accusing the club of going back on an agreement which I don't believe was ever in place.

Now the same people are having a go at family stand ST holders who don't necessarily want the singing section in beside them.

Having the singing section in the FF lower might be a great idea, but it's not something that's going to happen mid season.

Show me the posts of people having a go a FFL ST holders please?

[Peevemor]

It's interesting then that various other club's SLOs have made themselves visible to their support and embraced supporter engagement.

Meanwhile our SLO stays in the shadows and awaits items within his remit being passed to him.

I know which one of the above appeals to me as a supporter.What does it matter as long as you're put on to the appropriate person to deal with your query/issue?

I honestly don't see the problem.

[Peevemor]

You?...

Right let’s walk through this shall we.

Post number one was from somebody within the singing section:



Here is the very first reply - a complaint:


People like you and a few others (I think the .net rules mean I’m not supposed to name posters so I’ll refrain from doing so) descend onto this thread and begin the very boring routine of circling the wagons. I could find another ten threads where basically identical posts have been written by posters with your school of thought.

People who are pro the section moving grow less and less conciliatory and diplomatic towards you as you become more and more stubborn. What is the point in doing so when you keep throwing back the same tired nonsense?Show me where I've complained.

I've objected to people complain unjustly.

[Peevemor]

Show me the posts of people having a go a FFL ST holders please?For example.

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?p=6094723

There are a few posts having a go at the 15/20/50 whatever people who are blocking the move (which was never happening anyway).

[Chuck Rhoades]

For example.

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?p=6094723

There are a few posts having a go at the 15/20/50 whatever people who are blocking the move (which was never happening anyway).

Have you made up those numbers to suit your opinion?

Don’t answer that, we know the answer.

[h1bs4life]

Quite easy to be fair. Any cup tie that isn’t against the old firm, hearts and potentially Aberdeen as they bring a fair away crowd gives the club 3 and a half stands to play with. When was the last cup tie outwith these 4 teams did we sell 12000 or more home tickets? Print at home tickets are automatic, no need for the club to do anything, as for the rest we are now paying for that service, it’s more than enough time to print and sort tickets out without any real hassle.

If it gets down to the last few hundred seats in any stand you then open a few upper sections. It’s really not hard.


Its not really hard?? Everybody that buys a ticket has access to a printer right enough . All to be done in a couple of weeks or less for replays. Scramble for tickets as soon as they are announced.Try living in the real world , you think thousands of people trying to get seats as soon as they go on sale and having to get tickets printed at home or otherwise just so we can create a better atmoshpere is progress ? More likely say stuff this hassle not going .

[Peevemor]

Have you made up those numbers to suit your opinion?

Don’t answer that, we know the answer.I've seen 15 and 20 mentioned.

[hibbysam]

Its not really hard?? Everybody that buys a ticket has access to a printer right enough . All to be done in a couple of weeks or less for replays. Scramble for tickets as soon as they are announced.Try living in the real world , you think thousands of people trying to get seats as soon as they go on sale and having to get tickets printed at home or otherwise just so we can create a better atmoshpere is progress ? More likely say stuff this hassle not going .

Technically everyone that buys a ticket does have access to a printer... however ignoring that point, we don’t have thousands of people trying to get tickets for these games, that’s the point in this experiment. On average we get between 5-10k tops home fans for these games, majority of which buy tickets late on. We only sold about 1/2000 tickets in the priority window, meaning 80% of my top end 10,000 attendance figure would need to do exactly what you say we don’t want folk doing. This IS the real world, with facts from our own supports purchasing history.

[HibeeHibernian4]

(which was never happening anyway).

Why are you so convinced that you know things? Singing section posted a thread in here about a move on Friday that was never happening just for a laugh did they? Or maybe they did get something sorted with the club, only for the usual complainants to get wind of it and kick up a fuss, which made the club scrap it before they could officially announce it themselves.

You seem to be very naïve in that you think things don’t exist until they are officially confirmed. There’s a lot of background and preliminary stuff that goes into almost any decision ever.

It would be nice if whoever’s behind the Since1875 account on here could shed some light on this though. Think I’m right in saying that nothing’s been said by them since the first post.

[Chorley Hibee]

What does it matter as long as you're put on to the appropriate person to deal with your query/issue?

I honestly don't see the problem.

My last answer to you mentioned how I think many items are being passed to Kieran that should be dealt with by our SLO.

The very definition of a Liaison Officer is "A person who liaises between two organizations to communicate and coordinate their activities".

Do you think our SLO is communicating with our support on issues such as the FFL?

I would say no, especially as the majority of fans aren't even aware he exists.

[Pretty Boy]

I may be well wide of the mark but I can't help but think there is a desire amongst some, not necessarily the section as an entire entity, to create a bit of an us and them mentality and go to war with the club and other fans.

I've said a million times before that it's possible to build something from the ground up whilst still remaining on good terms with the people you require assistance from, in fact it's critical. I regularly pitch in my day job and the one thing that guarantees you will fail is if you go into any meeting/presentation with a list of things the other party can do for you. For this to succeed it requires a sense of timing, a list of benefits with supporting evidence and solutions to every potential problem the club will throw back at the idea. Without that these situations and conversations are destined to continue ad nauseam.

The fact is a group of 50-60 fans aren't going to be able to do this by force. It's going to require engagement with the wider support. I've offered some advice to a couple of individuals in the past that has gone unheeded. The current strategy is destined to fail.

[Irish_Steve]

The entitlement in this thread is giving me the boak!

Exactly. Fans thinking they are Uber fans and can tell other ST holders where to sit.

And I wish that bloody drummer knew how to keep time

[Power]

Happy to detail where I am with this - there’s certainly been discussions between the group and the club but I’ve only got half the information - not clear to me on either side who is leading but they’ll be working together but timing has always been against both parties on this

(I’ve got my information from a member of the group - definitely good to be kept informed - only having a bit of detail on this is fair enough, this is a specific scenario and I’m not the Supporter Liaison Officer but I’m more than happy to help where I can in these situations, just need to be kept in the loop).

Sure we’ll find out more in the next 24 hours as to next steps, if any.

Moving forward what I can try and influence is our approach - I want to find a solution that suits all - club and support (collective) - there’s quite a number of stakeholders, teams and people involved on both sides, including the wider support.

It’s not a straightforward position (look at this thread for example, the previous survey feedback, etc). This forum is just a small snapshot of a big support too. The last thing we want to do is make rushed plans/initiatives/trials (but noted there does need to be a starting point somewhere/sometime) - ALL parties want the experience at Easter Road to be the best/work, definitely nobody I’ve met or spoke to wanting or pushing it to be anything other because of X.
Difficult one to balance all the views (Club and support) and specific sensitivities - areas, seat priorities, views, pricing, atmosphere etc - there will be a solution in there - the group does contribute a lot to matchday experience/stadium atmosphere (agreed by all) and we should make every effort to accommodate them as best we can. Flipped, the club want to cater for every Hibs fan, everyone is equal and respected and any change needs to work comfortably.

This thread has caught fire since I last logged on at lunchtime (nae need to finger point at any certain group, club department or individual - from my experiences of dealing with the club and various people in different departments they want the same thing in the main as supporters that I speak to - there’s always a valid reason why a decision is made or we do X instead of Y, that’s whether I agree or not).

There is good arguments all around, barry information & insight and ideas - As mentioned above, I’ll work with the club to find a positive solution (was already part of my supporter feedback for February to the board before this thread) but what it does need is everyone to pull in the right direction. I’ve not heard from Club or Since 1875 today so can’t comment more.

Opinion is only my own as a supporter that sits in the back row of section 40 East - I would strongly recommend Since 1875 move into one of the 9 sections of the East Stand for this game. Medium to Longer term we can look at the stadium plan - if there’s a quick solution, great - if it needs a delivery plan and restructure, it needs done in the right way (then let’s look at that with the club). Ultimately if they choose to stay in section 25, then that’s great for Friday too.

Gies a shout if I can help with anything and - without trying to sound like a political posturing tit - let’s work together on it.

[Pretty Boy]

This thread has caught fire since I last logged on at lunchtime (nae need to finger point at any certain group, club department or individual - from my experiences of dealing with the club and various people in different departments they want the same thing in the main as supporters that I speak to - there’s always a valid reason why a decision is made or we do X instead of Y, that’s whether I agree or not).

There is good arguments all around, barry information & insight and ideas - As mentioned above, I’ll work with the club to find a positive solution (was already part of my supporter feedback for February to the board before this thread) but what it does need is everyone to pull in the right direction. I’ve not heard from Club or Since 1875 today so can’t comment more.

Opinion is only my own as a supporter that sits in the back row of section 40 East - I would strongly recommend Since 1875 move into one of the 9 sections of the East Stand for this game. Medium to Longer term we can look at the stadium plan - if there’s a quick solution, great - if it needs a delivery plan and restructure, it needs done in the right way (then let’s look at that with the club). Ultimately if they choose to stay in section 25, then that’s great for Friday too.

Gies a shout if I can help with anything and - without trying to sound like a political posturing tit - let’s work together on it.

2nd last paragraph is spot on and what I was trying to say in 3 clumsy paragraphs, you said in a few words.

It's an area that is going to require majority consensus and that means working with ALL parties who will be impacted.

[Hibbyradge]

Have you made up those numbers to suit your opinion?

Don’t answer that, we know the answer.

Jeez. Of course he made them up. Hence his use of the word "whatever". It was a guess.

The numbers are irrelevant however. He was asked to show where people were having a go at other fans.

[Barney McGrew]

The “entitlement” that you’re seeing is entirely a reflection on yourself. I don’t think it’d be unfair to suggest based on your posts that you’re of an older generation and maybe have an irrational dislike of the “youth these days”

I hate to tell you, but you’re spectacularly wrong on that front :faf:

And for the record, I just have a perfectly rational dislike of groups of fans who think they’re in some way better or more important than other fans and think that because of that they should get special treatment from the club.

[hibbysam]

I hate to tell you, but you’re spectacularly wrong on that front :faf:

And for the record, I just have a perfectly rational dislike of groups of fans who think they’re in some way better or more important than other fans and think that because of that they should get special treatment from the club.

You could wager that accusation at these families, season ticket holders etc all groups wanting what’s best for themselves.

[tamig]

Absolutely stinking attitude from the club if this is true and they have caved in to a couple of complaints from people in an otherwise empty part of the ground.

Are you not jumping to conclusions? How do you know where the folk that made the complaints normally sit? Not a given that they were section 20 ST holders. And you seem to be another who’s keen to batter the club while knowing nothing about what has gone on.

[Barney McGrew]

You could wager that accusation at these families, season ticket holders etc all groups wanting what’s best for themselves.

I’m sure they do. But those groups aren’t pushing for a move to another section and displacing other long standing season ticket holders as far as I’m aware?

[tamig]

I have it on good authority that this move was verbally agreed by the club for a one-off and it has now been reversed because of the complaints made from a handful of supporters. It was going to happen, it now isn’t. And when we are kicking towards less than a 1,000, lifeless fans in the second half on Friday, I’ll know exactly which section of our support the blame lies with
What does your last sentence mean? Are you blaming the folk who will be sitting in the FFL on Friday night for the collapse of this “plan”? That’s a bit unfair is it not? I’m sure there are plenty there who would have enjoyed the upturn in atmosphere. Think you need to choose your words a bit more carefully.

[tonyrougier123]

How about this for a club statement? Famous five lower available seats are open to any hibernian fc supporter.we are all hibs! Boom problem solved.no one moved.

[Hibs90]

Medium to Longer term we can look at the stadium plan - if there’s a quick solution, great - if it needs a delivery plan and restructure, it needs done in the right way (then let’s look at that with the club).

Gies a shout if I can help with anything and - without trying to sound like a political posturing tit - let’s work together on it.

East - Declare Section nearest F5 stand a family section with family pricing
West - Declare Section nearest F5 stand family section with family pricing
South - as is. Open up if demand is there.
F5 - Lower tier singing section. Continue current pricing for those who wish to stay in the same seats but open up the lower tier to all so single adult tickets can be purchased too. Therefore those who do not want to move don't have to. It gives them a choice, and the singing section get in the right location.

Sorted.

[mcohibs]

Singing section posted a thread in here about a move on Friday that was never happening just for a laugh did they? Or maybe they did get something sorted with the club, only for the usual complainants to get wind of it and kick up a fuss, which made the club scrap it before they could officially announce it themselves.



I think it's fairly obvious that the singing section only let the club know about this on Friday same day ST priority window closed and same day the thread started. Not enough time for the club to make appropriate arrangements on ticketing issue even if they wanted to.

You genuinely think that if the club was fully aware of this plan in advance that they'd start selling leftover tickets as normal and over the course of the next four days they were going to be lifting the ticketing restrictions? Odd way to do things. And why wouldn't they have communicated that plan by now?

Singing section haven't given the club enough notice to make this work and has been poorly planned on their behalf which is a shame because I think it could have worked if it was properly thought out.

[Peanut Shaz]

Genuine question and not trying to be controversial but do all other clubs have dedicated Family Sections?

[oldbutdim]

I think you’ve missed the sarcasm of my post replying to someone who is presuming that no youngsters want the singing section beside them. The views of the support as a whole will be wide ranging when it comes to getting to the correct outcome, what shouldn’t be wide ranging is the fact the club should be looking to maximise sales and create a much better atmosphere, and in my opinion for cup games that won’t be anywhere near a sell out, closing top tiers and end sections is the way to do that, as well as getting rid of a family section that houses 2/300 at most come kick off time.

I'm quite happy sitting in my top tier seat thanks.

And I don't particularly want to be evicted from it for Cup games on your say so.
With my luck I'd end up sitting near someone like you.
:na na:

[HibeeHibernian4]

I think it's fairly obvious that the singing section only let the club know about this on Friday same day ST priority window closed and same day the thread started. Not enough time for the club to make appropriate arrangements on ticketing issue even if they wanted to.

You genuinely think that if the club was fully aware of this plan in advance that they'd start selling leftover tickets as normal and over the course of the next four days they were going to be lifting the ticketing restrictions? Odd way to do things. And why wouldn't they have communicated that plan by now?

Singing section haven't given the club enough notice to make this work and has been poorly planned on their behalf which is a shame because I think it could have worked if it was properly thought out.

They said on another post that they were in touch about this from very soon after the draw was made?...

[ahibby]

I dont think they feel entitled at all. They r simply trying to create a better experience its not just being denied to them but to all of us.

[wearethehibs]

I’m sure they do. But those groups aren’t pushing for a move to another section and displacing other long standing season ticket holders as far as I’m aware?

Where are they trying to displace season ticket holders???

They want to buy tickets in an empty area of the stadium for one game.

[mcohibs]

They said on another post that they were in touch about this from very soon after the draw was made?...

Yep, I've just seen the other thread now. Think I may have been too quick to call the section out for poor planning as it looks as though they did try to do this through the correct contacts and apparently with a fair bit notice. Apologies to Since 1875, think I jumped the gun a bit 👍

[hibsmad]

I'm going to throw in what I would like to see here. This is based on both creating a good atmosphere as well as showing the club in the best possible light when viewing the matches on TV.

First of all there would be two options open to family groups. The end sections of the west stand at the FF end would be available at current FFL prices. We would also have the bottom half of the South lower at the East side available for family ST's which would not include category A matches. These would be very affordable, but given they are currently empty anyway the club would not be losing out.

FFL would then become the singing section. I would also offer slightly favourable pricing here to try and ensure it is packed.

[SquashedFrogg]

I'm going to throw in what I would like to see here. This is based on both creating a good atmosphere as well as showing the club in the best possible light when viewing the matches on TV.

First of all there would be two options open to family groups. The end sections of the west stand at the FF end would be available at current FFL prices. We would also have the bottom half of the South lower at the East side available for family ST's which would not include category A matches. These would be very affordable, but given they are currently empty anyway the club would not be losing out.

FFL would then become the singing section. I would also offer slightly favourable pricing here to try and ensure it is packed.

Favourable pricing for FFL to ensure it's packed? Seriously? I thought there were currently huge numbers desperate to move there to prevent it being half empty each week?

I'll be wanting the same favourable pricing for East as well please 👍

[HibeeHibernian4]

The attitude of some of the proposers of the move to make the FFL a Singing Section on this thread is the very reason I think it'll never come to fruition.

I actually started thinking it might be a decent idea, if done with sensitivity and consideration for other supporters, but have actually now changed my mind to a viewpoint that I hope it never happens... if only to p1ss off the bunch of ignorant, entitled and inconsiderate people posting in favour of it on here.

Childish? Perhaps, and maybe because I've learned a thing or two from the more extreme among those proposing this idea.


Keep it up and the Club will think the same.

Something tells me with the attitude you’re currently showing that you were never much in favour of the singing section lot ever getting their way. Just a hint.

[hibsmad]

Favourable pricing for FFL to ensure it's packed? Seriously? I thought there were currently huge numbers desperate to move there to prevent it being half empty each week?

I'll be wanting the same favourable pricing for East as well please 👍

The seats in the East give you a better view, so if it was me making the decision, I would politely decline your request :aok:

We would be hoping to attract fans to relocate to some of the worst seats in the stadium. Maybe offer a wee incentive, no?

Also, what makes you think there are huge numbers desperate to move there? There seem to be huge numbers desperate for the singing section to move there, but maybe not quite so many claiming they will be joining them.

The stadium currently looks ***** on TV. This is partly how we sell ourselves to sponsors as well as potential signings. Do you have a better idea to fill both bottom tiers behind the goals?

[HibeeHibernian4]

The stadium currently looks ***** on TV. This is partly how we sell ourselves to sponsors as well as potential signings. Do you have a better idea to fill both bottom tiers behind the goals?

This is an important point which seems to get overlooked by the very same people who work themselves into a frenzy about a lack of a shirt sponsor etc

I hate capitalism’s involvement in football but it’s here so youve got to accept it as a reality. And if you’re looking at the Hibernian “brand” on Friday night then you’re going to see two extremely empty ends behind both goals. This isn’t attractive to sponsors and the like.

Do people remember when Barry Hearn came up to Scotland a few years ago and grilled the blazers? He was talking about how bad our image is and how little we do to sell our game as an attractive product. This is all part of it. No kid sitting at home watching a half empty stadium is going to be begging their parent to take them to the next game at Easter Road. Put a few hundred people waving flags and singing behind the goals and who knows? I’m not saying it’s guaranteed to be a success but it’s got to be worth a try.

[Steven79]

This is an important point which seems to get overlooked by the very same people who work themselves into a frenzy about a lack of a shirt sponsor etc

I hate capitalism’s involvement in football but it’s here so youve got to accept it as a reality. And if you’re looking at the Hibernian “brand” on Friday night then you’re going to see two extremely empty ends behind both goals. This isn’t attractive to sponsors and the like.

Do people remember when Barry Hearn came up to Scotland a few years ago and grilled the blazers? He was talking about how bad our image is and how little we do to sell our game as an attractive product. This is all part of it. No kid sitting at home watching a half empty stadium is going to be begging their parent to take them to the next game at Easter Road. Put a few hundred people waving flags and singing behind the goals and who knows? I’m not saying it’s guaranteed to be a success but it’s got to be worth a try.Far too sensible a suggestion...

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

Will a few hundred people in an otherwise empty lower tier not look just as bad, if not worse than it does currently?

[hibbysam]

I'm quite happy sitting in my top tier seat thanks.

And I don't particularly want to be evicted from it for Cup games on your say so.
With my luck I'd end up sitting near someone like you.
:na na:

You’d be so lucky!!

[Hibbyradge]

This is an important point which seems to get overlooked by the very same people who work themselves into a frenzy about a lack of a shirt sponsor etc

I hate capitalism’s involvement in football but it’s here so youve got to accept it as a reality. And if you’re looking at the Hibernian “brand” on Friday night then you’re going to see two extremely empty ends behind both goals. This isn’t attractive to sponsors and the like.

Do people remember when Barry Hearn came up to Scotland a few years ago and grilled the blazers? He was talking about how bad our image is and how little we do to sell our game as an attractive product. This is all part of it. No kid sitting at home watching a half empty stadium is going to be begging their parent to take them to the next game at Easter Road. Put a few hundred people waving flags and singing behind the goals and who knows? I’m not saying it’s guaranteed to be a success but it’s got to be worth a try.

No kid being told that he and his father/mother have to f off out of their usual seats because "better fans than you" want to stand there are going to be begging to go back either.

[The 90+2]

There's absolutely no chance of that happening.

"I realise you and your mates have had a ST in that seat for many years, but you're going to have to sit in the last row of the lower tier."

"Aye, well you can stick next year's season tickets where the sun doesn't shine".

That would be totally self defeating.

Why would someone who hasn’t got a child sit in a seat for years in a family stand with their group? How’s the group still kicking about unless they started all of them taking their children when they were about 5?

[The 90+2]

No kid being told that he and his father/mother have to f off out of their usual seats because "better fans than you" want to stand there are going to be begging to go back either.

No kid will give a **** moving a few rows away if they are there to watch the football. Parents wanting to socialise seems to be the issue.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Why would someone who hasn’t got a child sit in a seat for years in a family stand with their group? How’s the group still kicking about unless they started all of them taking their children when they were about 5?

That’s been bugging me since reading these threads as well. How has season tickets holders been sitting there years and years with their kid’s? Since the the stand has opened has been another quote? If that rule has been in place? Surely they would have to move out when the kids grew up? I knew when I first took the kids there I could not wait until they were old enough to go to a decent part of the ground. Please tell me if I am missing something? Is that not part of the singing section argument that if the club did want to move them there it could actually be done gradually as when the kids grew up and can’t get tickets there any longer them and the parents would have to move another part of the ground? Is it not kids tickets are only until they are 12 years now as well?

[Hibbyradge]

That’s been bugging me since reading these threads as well. How has season tickets holders been sitting there years and years with their kid’s? Since the the stand has opened has been another quote? If that rule has been in place? Surely they would have to move out when the kids grew up? I knew when I first took the kids there I could not wait until they were old enough to go to a decent part of the ground. Please tell me if I am missing something? Is that not part of the singing section argument that if the club did want to move them there it could actually be done gradually as when the kids grew up and can’t get tickets there any longer them and the parents would have to move another part of the ground? Is it not kids tickets are only until they are 12 years now as well?

STs are for children aged 2 - 11. That's 9 years.

Then baby 2 comes along and maybe baby 3.

Soon you're up to 15 years.

But really, how many years does it need to be valued and respected as a fan?

The other point was that folk should be moved from all the upper tiers if the game wasn't going to be busy. There are folk sitting in the upper tiers who have been there since they were built.

[CathroMustStay]

Something tells me with the attitude you’re currently showing that you were never much in favour of the singing section lot ever getting their way. Just a hint.

Spot on.

The same types of fans who pretend to care about improving match day atmosphere, yet object to any proactive measures re safe standing and/or singing sections on the mantra of 'why should people have to relocate from their seats to accommodate entitled rapscallions'... are the football equivalent of the electorate who purport to hold progressive views yet ultimately vote Tory because when push comes to shove they don't want their own individual taxes to be increased, regardless of how it would affect the collective good.

[Hibbyradge]

Spot on.

The same types of fans who pretend to care about improving match day atmosphere, yet object to any proactive measures re safe standing and/or singing sections on the mantra of 'why should people have to relocate from their seats to accommodate entitled rapscallions'... are the football equivalent of the electorate who purport to hold progressive views yet ultimately vote Tory because when push comes to shove they don't want their own individual taxes to be increased regardless of how it would affect the collective good.

Can you show me a few posts from people objecting to safer standing or singing sections, please.

[The 90+2]

STs are for children aged 2 - 11. That's 9 years.

Then baby 2 comes along and maybe baby 3.

Soon you're up to 15 years.

But really, how many years does it need to be valued and respected as a fan?

The other point was that folk should be moved from all the upper tiers if the game wasn't going to be busy. There are folk sitting in the upper tiers who have been there since they were built.

Aye because the ****ing Walton’s kick about in the family stand right enough 😁😁😁

[B.H.F.C]

STs are for children aged 2 - 11. That's 9 years.

Then baby 2 comes along and maybe baby 3.

Soon you're up to 15 years.

But really, how many years does it need to be valued and respected as a fan?

The other point was that folk should be moved from all the upper tiers if the game wasn't going to be busy. There are folk sitting in the upper tiers who have been there since they were built.

There are complaints about nearly every suggestion related to tickets or match attendance.

Loyalty points was deemed to devalue season tickets.
Prices, can’t do anything with them as we’ll lose money.
Move the singing section. Can’t do that.
Close down areas to try and condense the crowd and help the atmosphere, na that’ll upset folk who can’t use their season ticket for the game anyway.

I’m not particularly aiming this at you, but I just find that generally, both as a club and support we seem pretty closed off to trying different things. Things that other clubs will do without it causing so much upset.

[Peevemor]

Spot on.

The same types of fans who pretend to care about improving match day atmosphere, yet object to any proactive measures re safe standing and/or singing sections on the mantra of 'why should people have to relocate from their seats to accommodate entitled rapscallions'... are the football equivalent of the electorate who purport to hold progressive views yet ultimately vote Tory because when push comes to shove they don't want their own individual taxes to be increased, regardless of how it would affect the collective good.What a load of cack!

[The 90+2]

That’s been bugging me since reading these threads as well. How has season tickets holders been sitting there years and years with their kid’s? Since the the stand has opened has been another quote? If that rule has been in place? Surely they would have to move out when the kids grew up? I knew when I first took the kids there I could not wait until they were old enough to go to a decent part of the ground. Please tell me if I am missing something? Is that not part of the singing section argument that if the club did want to move them there it could actually be done gradually as when the kids grew up and can’t get tickets there any longer them and the parents would have to move another part of the ground? Is it not kids tickets are only until they are 12 years now as well?

We are told there’s oaps kicking about the family stand too without children. Because they bought tickets on the cheap when the rules are different. No danger there’s groups in the already empty family stand moaning because they’ve had a seat there for years on the cheap and had a few kids and their other kids have moved on to the other stands when getting too old. It smacks of self privileges despite conning the club of money or wanting a better support.

[Hibbyradge]

There are complaints about nearly every suggestion related to tickets or match attendance.

Loyalty points was deemed to devalue season tickets.
Prices, can’t do anything with them as we’ll lose money.
Move the singing section. Can’t do that.
Close down areas to try and condense the crowd and help the atmosphere, na that’ll upset folk who can’t use their season ticket for the game anyway.

I’m not particularly aiming this at you, but I just find that generally, both as a club and support we seem pretty closed off to trying different things. Things that other clubs will do without it causing so much upset.

No-one has said they can't move the singing section.

However, you are correct generally. Football fans are about as collectively conservative a group as you'll ever meet.

[The 90+2]

There are complaints about nearly every suggestion related to tickets or match attendance.

Loyalty points was deemed to devalue season tickets.
Prices, can’t do anything with them as we’ll lose money.
Move the singing section. Can’t do that.
Close down areas to try and condense the crowd and help the atmosphere, na that’ll upset folk who can’t use their season ticket for the game anyway.

I’m not particularly aiming this at you, but I just find that generally, both as a club and support we seem pretty closed off to trying different things. Things that other clubs will do without it causing so much upset.

👍

[Heedersnvolleys]

STs are for children aged 2 - 11. That's 9 years.

Then baby 2 comes along and maybe baby 3.

Soon you're up to 15 years.

But really, how many years does it need to be valued and respected as a fan?

The other point was that folk should be moved from all the upper tiers if the game wasn't going to be busy. There are folk sitting in the upper tiers who have been there since they were built.
Still does not compute though so when baby 1 becomes 11 he just goes to another part of the ground on his own and the “group” stays with baby 2? Very much doubt it, surely they would all move to be together? I presume all these groups have equal kids v parents?

As for the entitlement argument from others I feel it’s the other way round. I’ll cut to the chase a £50 ST should be glad of any seat in the ground.

[Hibbyradge]

Still does not compute though so when baby 1 becomes 11 he just goes to another part of the ground on his own and the “group” stays with baby 2? Very much doubt it, surely they would all move to be together? I presume all these groups have equal kids v parents?

As for the entitlement argument from others I feel it’s the other way round. I’ll cut to the chase a £50 ST should be glad of any seat in the ground.

The poster was saying that it wasn't possible to be in the family section for "years" or something. I pointed out that it was.

By the way, I went to matches with my mates when I was 11.




As for the entitlement argument from others I feel it’s the other way round. I’ll cut to the chase a £50 ST should be glad of any seat in the ground.

I'll hazard a guess that you're not a parent.

Just pop the bairns in beside the coked up erses with the pyros and smuggled in bottles if there's a free seat for them.

That'll put hairs on their chests. :wink:

[matty_f]

Still does not compute though so when baby 1 becomes 11 he just goes to another part of the ground on his own and the “group” stays with baby 2? Very much doubt it, surely they would all move to be together? I presume all these groups have equal kids v parents?

As for the entitlement argument from others I feel it’s the other way round. I’ll cut to the chase a £50 ST should be glad of any seat in the ground.

So should a group who want to stand together to sing and bang a drum and that, in that case.

And even if the principle of the £50 season ticket holder being grateful for any seat, fair enough, but once they've got their seat they should feel that it's their seat for the season.

[oldbutdim]

STs are for children aged 2 - 11. That's 9 years.

Then baby 2 comes along and maybe baby 3.

Soon you're up to 15 years.

But really, how many years does it need to be valued and respected as a fan?

The other point was that folk should be moved from all the upper tiers if the game wasn't going to be busy. There are folk sitting in the upper tiers who have been there since they were built.

On the latter point, I’ve had a ST for the old enclosure, the east stand, and since it was built the F F Upper. Obviously I’m no longer in the first flush of youth. So it’s maybe the cantankerousness that goes with age that makes me retort to my fellow Hibs fan that wants to boot me out my seat because ‘it’s not busy there’ that he (or she) can do one.
I’m quite happy sitting where I’ve sat for however many years (I go home between games to be fair) without some clown telling me I have to move to make the atmosphere better.
You have to trust me on this, but enforcing a move ain’t going to make me sing and add to the jollity. Quite the ****in opposite.

I’m not telling anyone else where to sit, so dinnae tell me.

Cheers

[The 90+2]

On the latter point, I’ve had a ST for the old enclosure, the east stand, and since it was built the F F Upper. Obviously I’m no longer in the first flush of youth. So it’s maybe the cantankerousness that goes with age that makes me retort to my fellow Hibs fan that wants to boot me out my seat because ‘it’s not busy there’ that he (or she) can do one.
I’m quite happy sitting where I’ve sat for however many years (I go home between games to be fair) without some clown telling me I have to move to make the atmosphere better.
You have to trust me on this, but enforcing a move ain’t going to make me sing and add to the jollity. Quite the ****in opposite.

I’m not telling anyone else where to sit, so dinnae tell me.

Cheers

So you would be fine with the family stand being moved up to ff upper?

[Hibbyradge]

On the latter point, I’ve had a ST for the old enclosure, the east stand, and since it was built the F F Upper. Obviously I’m no longer in the first flush of youth. So it’s maybe the cantankerousness that goes with age that makes me retort to my fellow Hibs fan that wants to boot me out my seat because ‘it’s not busy there’ that he (or she) can do one.
I’m quite happy sitting where I’ve sat for however many years (I go home between games to be fair) without some clown telling me I have to move to make the atmosphere better.
You have to trust me on this, but enforcing a move ain’t going to make me sing and add to the jollity. Quite the ****in opposite.

I’m not telling anyone else where to sit, so dinnae tell me.

Cheers

I got a seat in the FF upper as soon as it was built. I can't remember what row (all my old ST are in a cupboard in the garage, but I'm not going out just now), but I was in seat 101.

Frank Dougan got me that seat and it was the last one sold. I used to sit beside Cliff and his wife. Great view from there.

My group of friends increased in size and we all moved to the top of the West. What a hike that was but the atmosphere up there for the Athens game in particular was fantastic.

I'm delighted that my mates are in the West lower now even if I could do with more exercise. :greengrin

[The 90+2]

So should a group who want to stand together to sing and bang a drum and that, in that case.

And even if the principle of the £50 season ticket holder being grateful for any seat, fair enough, but once they've got their seat they should feel that it's their seat for the season.

It’s not about a group banging a drum sitting together though mate. It’s about creating a better atmosphere in general in the ground and not having behind the goal completely empty all the time, especially in a cup quarter final. Guaranteed on Friday the pocket of Calley fans right behind the goals make loads of noise and get behind the team, meanwhile we will have an empty stand apart from the waltons with three kids who they have been sitting in a group of fellow Walton’s (age right). And old joe with a gammy leg who has a season ticket in a family section for some reason despite not having a kid at all.

Not sure when the rules changed, my first season ticket was in 1999, I had to prove I was a child. I moved to the east the next season but that was before I was 16 but sure it was fine in the old east and even now a lot safer now.

[007]

Still does not compute though so when baby 1 becomes 11 he just goes to another part of the ground on his own and the “group” stays with baby 2? Very much doubt it, surely they would all move to be together? I presume all these groups have equal kids v parents?

As for the entitlement argument from others I feel it’s the other way round. I’ll cut to the chase a £50 ST should be glad of any seat in the ground.

When baby 1 reaches 11 they don't get sent elsewhere, he/she stays where they are and gets a youth season ticket. Just one child in the group is needed, baby 2 being that child. A family stand wouldn't work if you had to have an equal number of kids v parents. A mum and dad with 1 child wouldn't be allowed.

FFL probably has the worst views in the ground so my guess is that is why the £50 season tickets are there.

[Heedersnvolleys]

The poster was saying that it wasn't possible to be in the family section for "years" or something. I pointed out that it was.



I'll hazard a guess that you're not a parent.

Just pop the bairns in beside the coked up erses with the pyros and smuggled in bottles if there's a free seat for them.

That'll put hairs on their chests. :wink:


That’s a terrible generalisation of SS and probably says more about you than me.
If you read my posts earlier you would know that I am a parent. And yes once I moved out of FF with kids we gradually moved along the east when seats were available to be be closer to “atmosphere”. Nothing to do with putting hairs on their chest but to escape the morgue type areas of the ground. If you think kids are there just to watch football I think you are mistaken, they are there for the full package.
I tell you what half the FFL as suggested on another post and I bet you the busiest part of the family section would be the closest to the SS.

[oldbutdim]

So you would be fine with the family stand being moved up to ff upper?



It’s not my shout to say what would happen to somebody else’s seats.
I’m puzzled that you have so misunderstood my post. Thought I’d made it clear that I didn’t want someone to determine where I should sit, so why would I want to do that to others?

Bewildered.

[007]

The poster was saying that it wasn't possible to be in the family section for "years" or something. I pointed out that it was.

By the way, I went to matches with my mates when I was 11.



I'll hazard a guess that you're not a parent.

Just pop the bairns in beside the coked up erses with the pyros and smuggled in bottles if there's a free seat for them.

That'll put hairs on their chests. :wink:

They'll learn some new words too that they can ask their teachers the meaning of.

[Heedersnvolleys]

As for moving seats when the ground is not busy that does puzzle me? I thought the club would do it for financial reasons more than anything. Surely it would make sense to shut parts to cut back on stewarding and policing? If it creates a better atmosphere it’s a bonus?

[007]

That’s a terrible generalisation of SS and probably says more about you than me.
If you read my posts earlier you would know that I am a parent. And yes once I moved out of FF with kids we gradually moved along the east when seats were available to be be closer to “atmosphere”. Nothing to do with putting hairs on their chest but to escape the morgue type areas of the ground. If you think kids are there just to watch football I think you are mistaken, they are there for the full package.
I tell you what half the FFL as suggested on another post and I bet you the busiest part of the family section would be the closest to the SS.

Can't see the club having the singing section in with family section. Yes, some of the olders kids would enjoy it but what about younger kids? Do you think all parents of 5 year olds want to explain to them things like who Paul Hartley is? Why he's a c*** And what a c*** is?

[Heedersnvolleys]

Can't see the club having the singing section in with family section. Yes, some of the olders kids would enjoy it but what about younger kids? Do you think all parents of 5 year olds want to explain to them things like who Paul Hartley is? Why he's a ******? And what a ****** is?

And they don’t hear when it’s getting sung above them?

[Hibbyradge]

That’s a terrible generalisation of SS and probably says more about you than me.
If you read my posts earlier you would know that I am a parent. And yes once I moved out of FF with kids we gradually moved along the east when seats were available to be be closer to “atmosphere”. Nothing to do with putting hairs on their chest but to escape the morgue type areas of the ground. If you think kids are there just to watch football I think you are mistaken, they are there for the full package.
I tell you what half the FFL as suggested on another post and I bet you the busiest part of the family section would be the closest to the SS.

I've no idea what it could have said about me, but no, I wasn't refering to the singing section. I was referring to coked up erses who smuggle pyros and bottles of beer into the ground and throw them onto the pitch.

You said that the bairns should be grateful for any seat anywhere.

So I exaggerated to make my point.

I should have said that I disagree that children should be grateful for a seat anywhere. They should be accommodated in a safe environment. An environment like the current family section.

[Heedersnvolleys]

No, I wasn't refering to the singing section. I was referring to coked up erses who smuggle pyros and bottles of beer into the ground and throw them onto the pitch.

You said that the bairns should be grateful for any seat anywhere.

So I exaggerated to make my point.

I should have said that I disagree that children should be grateful for a seat anywhere. They should be accommodated in a safe environment. An environment like the current family section.
I think it’s probably the most unsafe part of the ground have you seen some of the shots from our players, the put they nets up in the warm up for a reason 😂😂😂😂😉

[Hibeesmad]

How are ticket sales going for the FF Lower just now?

[Hibbyradge]

I think it’s probably the most unsafe part of the ground have you seen some of the shots from our players, the put they nets up in the warm up for a reason 😂😂😂😂😉

That's a very fair point. 😁

[007]

And they don’t hear when it’s getting sung above them?

Yes some will but not as many as if you put them right beside each other. Do you seriously think the club would go along with having the family section and singing sections side by side?

I am not against the singing section, I just think the FFL probably won't work. I think it would work better around section 43. Yes give FFL a try if something can be sorted for a future cup game or even a friendly against a club like Newcastle, there were 12k+ there last year.

Is there a reason for not trying the East, section 43 or 44 on Friday?

[007]

I think it’s probably the most unsafe part of the ground have you seen some of the shots from our players, the put they nets up in the warm up for a reason 😂😂😂😂😉

🤣🤣 And the huge nets still aren't big enough.

[hibbysam]

STs are for children aged 2 - 11. That's 9 years.

Then baby 2 comes along and maybe baby 3.

Soon you're up to 15 years.

But really, how many years does it need to be valued and respected as a fan?

The other point was that folk should be moved from all the upper tiers if the game wasn't going to be busy. There are folk sitting in the upper tiers who have been there since they were built.

The problem with your last point is that less than 10% of STH are taking up the option to buy their own seats. So a very small % of fans will have taken up their option to buy their top tier seat. An even smaller % of that will have ‘sat there since they were built’, and an even smaller % of that will be absolutely adamant that they are not moving elsewhere. So we’re probably worrying about tens, possibly very low 3 figures, out of 13000.

[SquashedFrogg]

The seats in the East give you a better view, so if it was me making the decision, I would politely decline your request :aok:

We would be hoping to attract fans to relocate to some of the worst seats in the stadium. Maybe offer a wee incentive, no?

Also, what makes you think there are huge numbers desperate to move there? There seem to be huge numbers desperate for the singing section to move there, but maybe not quite so many claiming they will be joining them.

The stadium currently looks ***** on TV. This is partly how we sell ourselves to sponsors as well as potential signings. Do you have a better idea to fill both bottom tiers behind the goals?

So what you're saying is that a few hundred fans desperate to move to the FFL should get lower priced tickets? Even though they're desperate to move there? Then lots will follow them to some of the worst seats in the stadium and then it will look great on tv?

You'll excuse my scepticism here I'm sure.

[hibsmad]

So what you're saying is that a few hundred fans desperate to move to the FFL should get lower priced tickets? Even though they're desperate to move there? Then lots will follow them to some of the worst seats in the stadium and then it will look great on tv?

You'll excuse my scepticism here I'm sure.

I'm saying that we currently have an issue with how our stadium looks when on TV.

I'm saying that if the singing section section moved to the FFL, we would still have about another 1,500 seats (with probably the worst view in the stadium) to fill. I'm saying that it would then be a good idea to discount the seats to help achieve a full stand. I'm not talking half price, 10-20% cheaper could do the trick.

There are no perfect solutions here. I'll ask again, do you have any better suggestions?

[madhibby]

How are ticket sales going for the FF Lower just now?

Around 550 sold - maybe 1/3 full?

[RIP]

Something obviously needs to be sorted out, but for the start of next season.

Anything sooner isn't going to happen.

Didn’t we already have a poll asking where the ‘singing section’ should move to?

Wasn’t the majority view to relocate back to the East?

[Onceinawhile]

Still does not compute though so when baby 1 becomes 11 he just goes to another part of the ground on his own and the “group” stays with baby 2? Very much doubt it, surely they would all move to be together? I presume all these groups have equal kids v parents?

As for the entitlement argument from others I feel it’s the other way round. I’ll cut to the chase a £50 ST should be glad of any seat in the ground.

There's no £50 season tickets anymore.

[Carheenlea]

The shape of the FF stand and location of singing section has created a barrier between what was expected to be a trigger to encourage more vocal backing from the East, the traditional home of the more vocal supporters.

Would a straight swap to the other corner of FF upper be practical?

1 - The corner of that upper tier has no straight wall like side the group are sited at present, so acoustically the sound should be audibly louder to those in the East while a fraction louder in West.

2 - Family section not impacted

3 - The group would still be in prime position for displays etc

4 - Moving existing ST holders might be less of an inconvenience as the seats could be reallocated on an almost like-for-like basis.

https://i.postimg.cc/MTy0Rsht/CA939783-6760-44-E6-AA9-F-2-CA308710-A0-B.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Steven79]

There's no £50 season tickets anymore.The kids tickets went up from £25 to £50 this season in the famous five lower.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

The problem with your last point is that less than 10% of STH are taking up the option to buy their own seats. So a very small % of fans will have taken up their option to buy their top tier seat. An even smaller % of that will have ‘sat there since they were built’, and an even smaller % of that will be absolutely adamant that they are not moving elsewhere. So we’re probably worrying about tens, possibly very low 3 figures, out of 13000.

Sorry, but that's a complete back of a very convenient fag packet non-calculation, made up to suit your argument.

This really isn't a discussion anymore.

[Peanut Shaz]

The shape of the FF stand and location of singing section has created a barrier between what was expected to be a trigger to encourage more vocal


4 - Moving existing ST holders might be less of an inconvenience as the seats could be reallocated on an almost like-for-like basis.

https://i.postimg.cc/MTy0Rsht/CA939783-6760-44-E6-AA9-F-2-CA308710-A0-B.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

So I would be moved back to where I was moved from despite being perfectly happy where I am. Two moves..nah!

[hibbysam]

Sorry, but that's a complete back of a very convenient fag packet non-calculation, made up to suit your argument.

This really isn't a discussion anymore.

Of course it is, I’m not sitting counting dots, but last Friday the place was still basically full of unsold seats.

However, even if you up that % to 30% and overestimate it massively, the top tiers were basically fully unsold last Friday. Few hundred tickets max. Take off some for walk ups (unless you believe every ticket sold by last Friday was a season ticket), then take off a small number for those who only buy their own season ticket seat for convenience rather than look to buy one elsewhere, the reality is that closing the top tiers for games like this until demand is required wouldn’t impact a lot of people,

Whether you like that or not really isn’t my issue, we are literally doing ourselves a disservice in regards to atmosphere for the sake of a very very small amount of people.

[PatHead]

Of course it is, I’m not sitting counting dots, but last Friday the place was still basically full of unsold seats.

However, even if you up that % to 30% and overestimate it massively, the top tiers were basically fully unsold last Friday. Few hundred tickets max. Take off some for walk ups (unless you believe every ticket sold by last Friday was a season ticket), then take off a small number for those who only buy their own season ticket seat for convenience rather than look to buy one elsewhere, the reality is that closing the top tiers for games like this until demand is required wouldn’t impact a lot of people,

Whether you like that or not really isn’t my issue, we are literally doing ourselves a disservice in regards to atmosphere for the sake of a very very small amount of people.

You don't have any right to tell anyone where they should sit.

[oldbutdim]

Of course it is, I’m not sitting counting dots, but last Friday the place was still basically full of unsold seats.

However, even if you up that % to 30% and overestimate it massively, the top tiers were basically fully unsold last Friday. Few hundred tickets max. Take off some for walk ups (unless you believe every ticket sold by last Friday was a season ticket), then take off a small number for those who only buy their own season ticket seat for convenience rather than look to buy one elsewhere, the reality is that closing the top tiers for games like this until demand is required wouldn’t impact a lot of people,

Whether you like that or not really isn’t my issue, we are literally doing ourselves a disservice in regards to atmosphere for the sake of a very very small amount of people.

My group of ST holders would be extremely annoyed were this to happen, and frankly the atmosphere we would create would be anything but inspiring.

You come across as really quite arrogant.

[Steven79]

My group of ST holders would be extremely annoyed were this to happen, and frankly the atmosphere we would create would be anything but inspiring.

You come across as really quite arrogant.

Lots of other clubs close sections of their ground for cup ties where it's not likely to sell out.

It would keep people closer together and save money.

[B.H.F.C]

We seem to have a very sensitive support at times.

When Aberdeen tried the unallocated seating initiative I wonder if they had loads of complaints about that. Or when they closed the top tier behind the goals when the crowd was going to be well short of capacity.

Hearts have closed stands for cup ties (incredible given their huge support really) but I wonder how many complaints they received about that.

Both teams operate loyalty schemes successfully, ours was scrapped due to complaints.

Teams down south regularly shut parts of their ground for cup ties and it doesn’t seem to cause too much of a fuss.

I don’t see anybody telling people what to do, just making suggestions to try and help improve things. Maybe it’s the people on the other side of the argument that are a bit entitled (I’ve seen that word used a bit) rather than the people making suggestions. Particularly in relation to a one off game like Friday when a season ticket isn’t actually valid.

[Peevemor]

Lots of other clubs close sections of their ground for cup ties where it's not likely to sell out.

It would keep people closer together and save money.

And lots of other clubs don't.

Friday is the last working day as well as the last Friday of the month - payday for a lot of people, so I suspect there will be a decent number of tocket sales on the day as well as walk-ups. I thik it'd be a mistake to start closing parts of the ground (home stands).

[Steven79]

And lots of other clubs don't.

Friday is the last working day as well as the last Friday of the month - payday for a lot of people, so I suspect there will be a decent number of tocket sales on the day as well as walk-ups. I thik it'd be a mistake to start closing parts of the ground (home stands).

What's more important.

People getting to sit in "their seat" or the club saving money and the atmosphere being better in the ground and the team winning and getting into the semi final.

I will take sitting in a different seat every home cup game if it meant we progressed...

[Peevemor]

We seem to have a very sensitive support at times.

When Aberdeen tried the unallocated seating initiative I wonder if they had loads of complaints about that. Or when they closed the top tier behind the goals when the crowd was going to be well short of capacity.

Hearts have closed stands for cup ties (incredible given their huge support really) but I wonder how many complaints they received about that.

Both teams operate loyalty schemes successfully, ours was scrapped due to complaints.

Teams down south regularly shut parts of their ground for cup ties and it doesn’t seem to cause too much of a fuss.

I don’t see anybody telling people what to do, just making suggestions to try and help improve things. Maybe it’s the people on the other side of the argument that are a bit entitled (I’ve seen that word used a bit) rather than the people making suggestions. Particularly in relation to a one off game like Friday when a season ticket isn’t actually valid.

2 Fridays ago, on the 14th of February, the club officially gave ST holders a week to buy their regular seats. The club has a policy in place which says that the FF lower is a family area and that section 25 in the FF is a (the) singing section.

I think it's pretty clear who's entitled to go where as far as Friday's match goes.

[Steve-O]

We seem to have a very sensitive support at times.

When Aberdeen tried the unallocated seating initiative I wonder if they had loads of complaints about that. Or when they closed the top tier behind the goals when the crowd was going to be well short of capacity.

Hearts have closed stands for cup ties (incredible given their huge support really) but I wonder how many complaints they received about that.

Both teams operate loyalty schemes successfully, ours was scrapped due to complaints.

Teams down south regularly shut parts of their ground for cup ties and it doesn’t seem to cause too much of a fuss.

I don’t see anybody telling people what to do, just making suggestions to try and help improve things. Maybe it’s the people on the other side of the argument that are a bit entitled (I’ve seen that word used a bit) rather than the people making suggestions. Particularly in relation to a one off game like Friday when a season ticket isn’t actually valid.

Agreed.

People moaning that they won’t change “their” seat just so something a bit different can be tried ought to take a look at themselves. Sense of entitlement through the roof. Just sit somewhere else, the view is great in 90% or more of the stadium FFS

[Peevemor]

Agreed.

People moaning that they won’t change “their” seat just so something a bit different can be tried ought to take a look at themselves. Sense of entitlement through the roof. Just sit somewhere else, the view is great in 90% or more of the stadium FFS

Surely you can't gauge (and critiise) people's reaction unless it actually happens (which it hasn't)?

[Steve-O]

This is an important point which seems to get overlooked by the very same people who work themselves into a frenzy about a lack of a shirt sponsor etc

I hate capitalism’s involvement in football but it’s here so youve got to accept it as a reality. And if you’re looking at the Hibernian “brand” on Friday night then you’re going to see two extremely empty ends behind both goals. This isn’t attractive to sponsors and the like.

Do people remember when Barry Hearn came up to Scotland a few years ago and grilled the blazers? He was talking about how bad our image is and how little we do to sell our game as an attractive product. This is all part of it. No kid sitting at home watching a half empty stadium is going to be begging their parent to take them to the next game at Easter Road. Put a few hundred people waving flags and singing behind the goals and who knows? I’m not saying it’s guaranteed to be a success but it’s got to be worth a try.

Absolutely right. Sticking our singing section, and away fans, in sections that can barely be seen on TV does us, and the Scottish game as a whole, no favours.

Why does the family section even need to be the ENTIRE bottom tier when it never seems to be full?

[Steve-O]

Surely you can't gauge (and critiise) people's reaction unless it actually happens (which it hasn't)?

I’m talking about the reaction of people on here who have said they’ll “kick off” and the like if it happens.

[Peevemor]

Absolutely right. Sticking our singing section, and away fans, in sections that can barely be seen on TV does us, and the Scottish game as a whole, no favours.

The seats in grey are those sold in the singing section for Friday.

23042

That woud look brilliant on TV.



Why does the family section even need to be the ENTIRE bottom tier when it never seems to be full?

The vast majority os seats are sold (STs), but not everyone attends every match. This has been covered loads of times on here.

[B.H.F.C]

2 Fridays ago, on the 14th of February, the club officially gave ST holders a week to buy their regular seats. The club has a policy in place which says that the FF lower is a family area and that section 25 in the FF is a (the) singing section.

I think it's pretty clear who's entitled to go where as far as Friday's match goes.

I know what the club have done and who is entitled to what as a result. The whole point being debated though, is that many disagree with the approach of the club in the first place. Not you, obviously.

[Steve-O]

There's absolutely no chance of that happening.

"I realise you and your mates have had a ST in that seat for many years, but you're going to have to sit in the last row of the lower tier."

"Aye, well you can stick next year's season tickets where the sun doesn't shine".

That would be totally self defeating.

If someone would give up a season ticket because they had to move seats occasionally then is it not that person that is self-defeating? Someone really wouldn’t go because they can’t sit in the exact same seat every week? Give me strength FFS

[Steve-O]

The seats in grey are those sold in the singing section for Friday.

23042

That woud look brilliant on TV.




The vast majority os seats are sold (STs), but not everyone attends every match. This has been covered loads of times on here.

Yeah, the upper tier singing section that nobody likes the location of. Not a great argument. How does the equivalent section in the lower tier look?

[Peevemor]

I’m talking about the reaction of people on here who have said they’ll “kick off” and the like if it happens.

Maybe their reaction would be different if the club "sold" the idea to them? I think there'd be very few complaints for a one-off match, with most people accepting the "novelty value" aspect.

People aren't happy with some of the singing section trying to impose themselves unofficially into the family area.

[Steven79]

If someone would give up a season ticket because they had to move seats occasionally then is it not that person self-defeating? Someone really wouldn’t go because they can’t sit in the exact same seat every week? Give me strength FFS

It's people like that which are part of the problem and are holding the club back.

If a lump of plastic if more important than the team doing well and the stadium being intimidating then we may as well give up!

[Peevemor]

Yeah, the upper tier singing section that nobody likes the location of. Not a great argument. How does the equivalent section in the lower tier look?

Did they not choose to move there?

[Steve-O]

It's people like that which are part of the problem and are holding the club back.

If a lump of plastic if more important than the team doing well and the stadium being intimidating then we may as well give up!

When I had a season ticket I cannot recall the memo with it saying I was guaranteed that exact seat for as long as I wanted it, strangely enough.

[Steven79]

Yeah, the upper tier singing section that nobody likes the location of. Not a great argument. How does the equivalent section in the lower tier look?

Every ticket sold in the whole of the lower tier could fit in one section with room to spare...

[Peevemor]

I know what the club have done and who is entitled to what as a result. The whole point being debated though, is that many disagree with the approach of the club in the first place. Not you, obviously.

Many? How many?

There are 4 or 5 on here that I can see.

[Beefster]

Agreed.

People moaning that they won’t change “their” seat just so something a bit different can be tried ought to take a look at themselves. Sense of entitlement through the roof. Just sit somewhere else, the view is great in 90% or more of the stadium FFS

The sense of entitlement is both ways, incidentally. I’ve just skimmed through this thread and read that some fans should just be grateful for a seat because they’re paying less than the rest of us (presumably that extends to the kids/carers/services who get free tickets too). For every person moaning about moving or refusing to move, there is someone else making out that they are less of a fan than the folk looking to improve the atmosphere.

None of this directly affects me btw, which is possibly why I can see it from both sides. I sit in the East, have done for 20 odd years and am unlikely to ever be asked to move, primarily because my area is packed with long-standing ST holders.

[Steve-O]

Did they not choose to move there?

I’m not clear what the process was exactly, but I doubt that spot was their number one choice...someone can correct me if I am wrong.

[Steve-O]

The sense of entitlement is both ways, incidentally. I’ve just skimmed through this thread and read that some fans should just be grateful for a seat because they’re paying less than the rest of us (presumably that extends to the kids/carers/services who get free tickets too). For every person moaning about moving or refusing to move, there is someone else making out that they are less of a fan than the folk looking to improve the atmosphere.

None of this directly affects me btw, which is possibly why I can see it from both sides. I sit in the East, have done for 20 odd years and am unlikely to ever be asked to move, primarily because my area is packed with long-standing ST holders.

If someone is prepared to not go to a game because they had to move seats, then perhaps they are less of a fan?

[Steven79]

When I had a season ticket I cannot recall the memo with it saying I was guaranteed that exact seat for as long as I wanted it, strangely enough.

You buy a season ticket for league games, if the section is closed for a cup tie then you move to another seat.

Those league cup ties against Alloa & Arbroath should never have been played with all the ground open.

How much money was wasted opening a 20,000 seater stadium for around 5000 fans in both games.

The West & Famous Five could have been opened to give people a choice of side on or behind the goal.

[Peevemor]

I’m not clear what the process was exactly, but I doubt that spot was their number one choice...someone can correct me if I am wrong.

I honestly don't know either, but from what I understand the singing section themselves were split between wanting to move and staying in the East.

Anyway, as I've said before, I think (hope) something can be sorted out to keep everyone happy (new standing area maybe?), but last minute attempts to change things on a one-off basis obviously don't work.

[Beefster]

If someone would give up a season ticket because they had to move seats occasionally then is it not that person that is self-defeating? Someone really wouldn’t go because they can’t sit in the exact same seat every week? Give me strength FFS

I’ve had the same seat since the East was built. I made an effort at the time to get seats that we were delighted with and I’m not sure we could get a much better seat. TBH, if I was told I was having to move because someone else wanted it, I’d be mightily pissed off. A small part of the reason that we’ve continually bought STs, even when it’s been absolutely ***** is because we don’t want to lose the seat.

Maybe it’s one of those things you need to go through to understand.

[Steven79]

If someone is prepared to not go to a game because they had to move seats, then perhaps they are less of a fan?

Exactly!

Sit in the same sit as you do for league games or save the club cash and improve the atmosphere for everybody in the ground rather than having massive gaps (Like the league cup ties I've mentioned)

It's selfish and costing the club...

[Steven79]

I’ve had the same seat since the East was built. I made an effort at the time to get seats that we were delighted with and I’m not sure we could get a much better seat. TBH, if I was told I was having to move because someone else wanted it, I’d be mightily pissed off. A small part of the reason that we’ve continually bought STs, even when it’s been absolutely ***** is because we don’t want to lose the seat.

Maybe it’s one of those things you need to go through to understand.

Nobody else is wanting it or getting it...

[B.H.F.C]

Many? How many?

There are 4 or 5 on here that I can see.

I think it’s pretty clear that there is an appetite to change things a bit from a sizeable number. Maybe you don’t feel that watching from afar.

Clearly, a sizeable number of folk will also disagree.

[Beefster]

If someone is prepared to not go to a game because they had to move seats, then perhaps they are less of a fan?

Dunno about that but we’re back into ‘X is a better fan than Y’ territory. Completely the wrong approach if this is ultimately going to happen with a minimum of fuss.

[hibeerealist]

Agreed.

People moaning that they won’t change “their” seat just so something a bit different can be tried ought to take a look at themselves. Sense of entitlement through the roof. Just sit somewhere else, the view is great in 90% or more of the stadium FFS

Add in those who dont take a seat at ER (non attenders) and STILL MOAN about facilitating the SS!!

[Peevemor]

I think it’s pretty clear that there is an appetite to change things a bit from a sizeable number. Maybe you don’t feel that watching from afar.

Clearly, a sizeable number of folk will also disagree.

On here there are a handful of posters pretty vocal about wanting change. Does that equate to a sizeable number in reality? - I honestly don't know.

I'm far more likely to attend matches at Rennes or Guingamp than ER.

Both clubs have their "kop" (singing section) immediately behind the goals and it's something I think could be great at ER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU0B8KA_Mdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMfX6dijbkI

It would obviously have to be organised properly though, with the club & supporters working together well in advance.

[B.H.F.C]

On here there are a handful of posters pretty vocal about wanting change. Does that equate to a sizeable number in reality? - I honestly don't know.

I'm far more likely to attend matches at Rennes or Guingamp than ER.

Both clubs have their "kop" (singing section) immediately behind the goals and it's something I think could be great at ER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU0B8KA_Mdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMfX6dijbkI

It would obviously have to be organised properly though, with the club & supporters working together well in advance.

You know fine well that it’s not just five people who have that view.

It’s something that I’ve had conversations about, and heard people have conversations about, at games. It’s mentioned by the group around us nearly every week, particularly at cup games. People have been talking about the ‘issue’ of the FFL being empty for ages.

[Peevemor]

You know fine well that it’s not just five people who have that view.

It’s something that I’ve had conversations about, and heard people have conversations about, at games. It’s mentioned by the group around us nearly every week, particularly at cup games. People have been talking about the ‘issue’ of the FFL being empty for ages.

Fair enough. I said "I honestly don't know".

The rest of my post also shows that I agree with them, so there's no point having a go at me.

[Hibbyradge]

Agreed.

People moaning that they won’t change “their” seat just so something a bit different can be tried ought to take a look at themselves. Sense of entitlement through the roof. Just sit somewhere else, the view is great in 90% or more of the stadium FFS

Sense of entitlement?

They're entitled to sit in the seat they've paid for.

The entitlement is from the "we're better fans than you" folk who think they can demand to sit anywhere they want, whether they even have a regular seat or even if they're a now and again walk up.

[Steven79]

Sense of entitlement?

They're entitled to sit in the seat they've paid for.

The entitlement is from the "we're better fans than you" folk who think they can demand to sit anywhere they want, whether they even have a regular seat or even if they're a now and again walk up.They have paid for league games...

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[hibbysam]

My group of ST holders would be extremely annoyed were this to happen, and frankly the atmosphere we would create would be anything but inspiring.

You come across as really quite arrogant.

Arrogant? For coming up with different views to save the club money and create a better atmosphere?

If the club changed their approach to my way of thinking (unlikely), would you call yourself arrogant for kicking off when it hasn’t gone your way?

[Hibbyradge]

If someone would give up a season ticket because they had to move seats occasionally then is it not that person that is self-defeating? Someone really wouldn’t go because they can’t sit in the exact same seat every week? Give me strength FFS

People are saying that fans will stop going if the singing section isn't moved so the atmosphere improves. What's the difference?

If Hibs told you that you had to move seats beside you've had for years beside people you've become friendly with, because some other fans were judged to be more important to the team than you, I'd be impressed it you just shrugged your shoulders and just passively did what you were told.

[Blaster]

They have paid for league games...

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

And the option to get first dibs on their seat for cup games at a discounted rate

[Hibbyradge]

They have paid for league games...

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

They've paid for Friday night.

[GordonHFC]

People are saying that fans will stop going if the singing section isn't moved so the atmosphere improves. What's the difference?

If Hibs told you that you had to move seats beside you've had for years beside people you've become friendly with, because some other fans were judged to be more important to the team than you, I'd be impressed it you just shrugged your shoulders and just passively did what you were told.


I did when they told us the singing section was moving to the FF Upper. I had been there for years.

[hibbysam]

And the option to get first dibs on their seat for cup games at a discounted rate

Not true. They have the chance of discounted rates. There is still nothing official about getting the option of buying your own seat.

[hibbysam]

People are saying that fans will stop going if the singing section isn't moved so the atmosphere improves. What's the difference?

If Hibs told you that you had to move seats beside you've had for years beside people you've become friendly with, because some other fans were judged to be more important to the team than you, I'd be impressed it you just shrugged your shoulders and just passively did what you were told.

Those fans are going to get moved out to accommodate younger fans when they get too old anyway, regardless if they’ve made pals or been there for years.

[Cameron1875]

Jeezo. Folk genuinely sound five years old when they mention about not moving cause they've made pals or they've sat there their whole life.

If the club and the singing section can come to an agreement that makes Easter Road a better atmosphere, and in turn positively impacts on the results then I hope the club isn't scared to shift people.

However, I have my doubts as to whether the club want the fans anywhere else but the current section. An upper tier singing section prevents any risk of those fans invading the pitch at goals whilst the club benefit from using the displays for promo and marketing purposes. Win win for the board imo.

[Hibbyradge]

Jeezo. Folk genuinely sound five years old when they mention about not moving cause they've made pals or they've sat there their whole life.

If the club and the singing section can come to an agreement that makes Easter Road a better atmosphere, and in turn positively impacts on the results then I hope the club isn't scared to shift people.

However, I have my doubts as to whether the club want the fans anywhere else but the current section. An upper tier singing section prevents any risk of those fans invading the pitch at goals whilst the club benefit from using the displays for promo and marketing purposes. Win win for the board imo.

Agreement is the key word.

So far there has been no attempt to agree anything with the families or the upper tier ST members who would be affected. There's not even been any discussion, just people who think they're better telling them that they should move.

You slagging them off and calling them 5 year olds isn't going to win anyone round either.

[WhileTheChief..]

On here there are a handful of posters pretty vocal about wanting change.

You're pretty vocal about it yourself for someone that it doesn't affect at all!

[Beefster]

You're pretty vocal about it yourself for someone that it doesn't affect at all!

Folk keep, unfairly, using that as a stick to beat Peevemor but there appear to be other posters who live abroad contributing to this thread without the same comments.

[Peevemor]

You're pretty vocal about it yourself for someone that it doesn't affect at all!

Not about reorganising the fans in the stadium I'm not.

[Peevemor]

Folk keep, unfairly, using that as a stick to beat Peevemor but there appear to be other posters who live abroad contributing to this thread without the same comments.

C'est la vie! :greengrin

[Beefster]

C'est la vie! :greengrin

I don’t speak Spanish but, at a guess, 3pm on a Tuesday normally.

[Keith_M]

I see the same people are still abusing other posters that don't agree 100% with their point of view (apparently, even agreeing 80-90% is not enough).

Also, anybody not sharing their PoV is a lesser Fan



Does anybody seriously think that's a successful approach to winning over fellow Fans or the Club?


:rolleyes:

[theonlywayisup]

This whole topic is getting so boring. However, some thoughts with the aim of giving the SS what they want:



Despite what some people think, the Board is unlikely to move those currently sitting in the FFL without any consultation; that consultation may take a matter of months to put in place. Currently, there are very few options to relocate the displaced FFL fans, as mostly it's single seats that are available.
Despite what some people think, the Board is unlikely to sanction a move of the family section to the South stand. Anyone with young kids, who have had to explain why someone is making rude gestures with their hand or saying nasty words will understand. The family section must be (and will be) kept well away from the away support.
A better option would be to give a commitment that by season 22/23, the Board will co-ordinate a planned resettlement of fans to other locations. That gives fans two seasons to plan for that relocation. That gives the Board two 'payment' years to see if the number of Season Ticket holders reduces or just moves to other parts of the stadium.
All changes must be done sensitively to minimise the negative impact on all of those concerned. The Board will not want to run the risk that the net impact of this change is a reduction in Season Ticket and Walk-Up attendances.
It would be daft to carry out the above without testing the decision to move the SS to the FFL. The Board should announce that cup games during the 20/21 season will be used as a trial to test the proposal, possibly extended into 21/22 if for example we were drawn away for cup games. It can't be a one-off trial, as I would expect the SS would either grow (or diminish) depending on how the first few games go.
For any of the above to happen, the Board must be clear on how they are planning the transition and communicate this to all, so as not to disengage a group of fans, as is happening at the moment.


Just some ideas to help overcome this issue that I'm personally extremely bored with.

Some other more personal thoughts:

One telling moment on Saturday was when I noticed that the SS section started the "Stand up if you hate Jam Tarts" chant and not one person in the FFL nor the East or West stood up. When such chants were started in the East, there was a ripple effect across the who stadium and everyone joined in.
Some people are posting videos of the fantastic SS behind the goals in some European countries. The common theme is often packed stadiums. I'm not convinced that it's going to look that great when crowds drops down towards the 10k level, which they will do at some point in the future.

[Hibbyradge]

Not true. They have the chance of discounted rates. There is still nothing official about getting the option of buying your own seat.

FFS, give this line a rest.

There is nothing official about bar staff serving next the person who has been waiting at the bar the longest, but it's not only expected, it's demanded.

Imagine sitting in the barber waiting on your turn and being made to wait because another, more regular customer came in and, when you objected, being told that there was nothing official saying they had to serve you in turn.

Every home cup game for as long as I can remember, ST members have been given the opportunity to buy their own seats.

Just telling them "tough, we've changed our mind, go somewhere else" isn't what any business which valued its customers would ever do.

If there's going to be a change, fine, but it has to be done after proper consultation, explanation and agreement.

Just using some ridiculous technicality to bull doze it through would send out every type of wrong signal and would backfire.

[oldbutdim]

Arrogant? For coming up with different views to save the club money and create a better atmosphere?

If the club changed their approach to my way of thinking (unlikely), would you call yourself arrogant for kicking off when it hasn’t gone your way?

"Whether you like that or not really isn’t my issue, we are literally doing ourselves a disservice in regards to atmosphere for the sake of a very very small amount of people."

This is the arrogant bit.

Would I be annoyed if I was forced to move without any consultation? Yes.
Would I think that was arrogance? No.

[Hibbyradge]

those fans are going to get moved out to accommodate younger fans when they get too old anyway, regardless if they’ve made pals or been there for years.

wtf?

[oldbutdim]

wtf?

Soylent Green.

:wink:

[Peevemor]

This whole topic is getting so boring. However, some thoughts with the aim of giving the SS what they want:



Despite what some people think, the Board is unlikely to move those currently sitting in the FFL without any consultation; that consultation may take a matter of months to put in place. Currently, there are very few options to relocate the displaced FFL fans, as mostly it's single seats that are available.
Despite what some people think, the Board is unlikely to sanction a move of the family section to the South stand. Anyone with young kids, who have had to explain why someone is making rude gestures with their hand or saying nasty words will understand. The family section must be (and will be) kept well away from the away support.
A better option would be to give a commitment that by season 22/23, the Board will co-ordinate a planned resettlement of fans to other locations. That gives fans two seasons to plan for that relocation. That gives the Board two 'payment' years to see if the number of Season Ticket holders reduces or just moves to other parts of the stadium.
All changes must be done sensitively to minimise the negative impact on all of those concerned. The Board will not want to run the risk that the net impact of this change is a reduction in Season Ticket and Walk-Up attendances.
It would be daft to carry out the above without testing the decision to move the SS to the FFL. The Board should announce that cup games during the 20/21 season will be used as a trial to test the proposal, possibly extended into 21/22 if for example we were drawn away for cup games. It can't be a one-off trial, as I would expect the SS would either grow (or diminish) depending on how the first few games go.
For any of the above to happen, the Board must be clear on how they are planning the transition and communicate this to all, so as not to disengage a group of fans, as is happening at the moment.


Just some ideas to help overcome this issue that I'm personally extremely bored with.

Some other more personal thoughts:

One telling moment on Saturday was when I noticed that the SS section started the "Stand up if you hate Jam Tarts" chant and not one person in the FFL nor the East or West stood up. When such chants were started in the East, there was a ripple effect across the who stadium and everyone joined in.
Some people are posting videos of the fantastic SS behind the goals in some European countries. The common theme is often packed stadiums. I'm not convinced that it's going to look that great when crowds drops down towards the 10k level, which they will do at some point in the future.



A very good post which all makes perfect sense, assuming the club are looking to relocate the family and singing sections - something we don't know to be the case.

As for your last point, obviously the videos I posted were "best ofs", but my experience of these 2 grounds is that even with smaller crowds for run of the mill games the singing sections remain busy and noisy - these supporters tend to go for the atmosphere/craic as much as the football itself. In saying that, at Rennes (for example) an adult ST for the lower tier behind either goal is only 169€ (£142).

https://abonnement.staderennais.com/particuliers.html?id=1560520143

[B.H.F.C]

Every home cup game for as long as I can remember, ST members have been given the opportunity to buy their own seats.


No quite. Famous Five was shut for league cup group games earlier this season.

[hibbysam]

wtf?

It’s not hard to understand. The current rules state that once you no longer have a child in your group then you are turfed out of your seat to another area. Therefore how long you’ve sat there and how many pals you’ve made is irrelevant.

[Hibbyradge]

Soylent Green.

:wink:

Yum.

You're going to die anyway ...

[hibbysam]

FFS, give this line a rest.

There is nothing official about bar staff serving next the person who has been waiting at the bar the longest, but it's not only expected, it's demanded.

Imagine sitting in the barber waiting on your turn and being made to wait because another, more regular customer came in and, when you objected, being told that there was nothing official saying they had to serve you in turn.

Every home cup game for as long as I can remember, ST members have been given the opportunity to buy their own seats.

Just telling them "tough, we've changed our mind, go somewhere else" isn't what any business which valued its customers would ever do.

If there's going to be a change, fine, but it has to be done after proper consultation, explanation and agreement.

Just using some ridiculous technicality to bull doze it through would send out every type of wrong signal and would backfire.

For years even those without a child could still sit in the FFL as they had done for years previously. The club suddenly changed this and implemented the family section only if you had a child. There was nothing official about anyone sitting in this stand but it was the done thing for years and years, the club changed this without any consultation.

Whether you or I like it, and whether it’s a gentleman’s agreement right now, if it benefits the club to change the way tickets are sold for small cup ties then you can’t seriously cry about a rule that isn’t even in place.

[hibbysam]

No quite. Famous Five was shut for league cup group games earlier this season.

I’m sure they all kicked off about that. Outrageous that from the club.

[Hibbyradge]

It’s not hard to understand. The current rules state that once you no longer have a child in your group then you are turfed out of your seat to another area. Therefore how long you’ve sat there and how many pals you’ve made is irrelevant.

So what?

They should be allowed to enjoy their environment for as long as they're entitled to.

[Peevemor]

For years even those without a child could still sit in the FFL as they had done for years previously. The club suddenly changed this and implemented the family section only if you had a child. There was nothing official about anyone sitting in this stand but it was the done thing for years and years, the club changed this without any consultation.

Whether you or I like it, and whether it’s a gentleman’s agreement right now, if it benefits the club to change the way tickets are sold for small cup ties then you can’t seriously cry about a rule that isn’t even in place.

What like admitting the singing section to the FF lower on Friday night?

[Chuck Rhoades]

I see the same people are still abusing other posters that don't agree 100% with their point of view (apparently, even agreeing 80-90% is not enough).

Also, anybody not sharing their PoV is a lesser Fan



Does anybody seriously think that's a successful approach to winning over fellow Fans or the Club?


:rolleyes:

Agreed. Some posters across both sides of the debate need to wind their neck in. Few could do with a timeout away from hammering their keyboards.

[Hibbyradge]

For years even those without a child could still sit in the FFL as they had done for years previously. The club suddenly changed this and implemented the family section only if you had a child. There was nothing official about anyone sitting in this stand but it was the done thing for years and years, the club changed this without any consultation.

Whether you or I like it, and whether it’s a gentleman’s agreement right now, if it benefits the club to change the way tickets are sold for small cup ties then you can’t seriously cry about a rule that isn’t even in place.

Personally, if I had made a gentleman's agreement, I wouldn't just unilaterally, and unexpectedly, decide not to honour it.

But, I guess not everyone is a gentleman.

Anyway, it's not happening on Friday so all this is just wind and pish. I'm confident that the club will do the right thing, in the right way.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Soylent Green.

:wink:

That green might be soylent but is it bottle green or emerald green or gradiated green?

[ABZHFC]

Personally, if I had made a gentleman's agreement, I wouldn't just unilaterally, and unexpectedly, decide not to honour it.

But, I guess not everyone is a gentleman.

Anyway, it's not happening on Friday so all this is just wind and pish. I'm confident that the club will do the right thing, in the right way.

What exactly, about any of the club's interactions with Since 1875 over the past year or so, gives you that confidence? I really hope they do the right thing too, we all do, but it would take a monumental change of direction to ensure this happens, and furthermore, which is the part you won't like to hear, it will take some of the people on this thread giving up and moaning about something else instead

[Hibbyradge]

What exactly, about any of the club's interactions with Since 1875 over the past year or so, gives you that confidence? I really hope they do the right thing too, we all do, but it would take a monumental change of direction to ensure this happens, and furthermore, which is the part you won't like to hear, it will take some of the people on this thread giving up and moaning about something else instead

The outcome you prefer might not be the right thing to do.

[Baldy]

None of this directly affects me btw, which is possibly why I can see it from both sides. I sit in the East, have done for 20 odd years and am unlikely to ever be asked to move, primarily because my area is packed with long-standing ST holders.

but thats exactly what the singing section are proposing, making long term season ticket holders move to allow them to have the areas they want.

[w pilton hibby]

For years even those without a child could still sit in the FFL as they had done for years previously. The club suddenly changed this and implemented the family section only if you had a child. There was nothing official about anyone sitting in this stand but it was the done thing for years and years, the club changed this without any consultation.

Whether you or I like it, and whether it’s a gentleman’s agreement right now, if it benefits the club to change the way tickets are sold for small cup ties then you can’t seriously cry about a rule that isn’t even in place.

How do you define "small cup ties"?

[hibbysam]

So what?

They should be allowed to enjoy their environment for as long as they're entitled to.

Ah, entitlement eh. They’re only entitled to that area until the club say otherwise.

As for Friday, where the singing section go doesn’t overly bother me. I’m more interested in the greater good of the club. Small cup ties that are half full should be looked at to maximise attendance and atmosphere.

We closed the famous five for the group stage of the league cup, was there a massive fuss caused then? Nobody was even arsed about it. There was no priority window to buy your season ticket seat. People still got their discount as per the T&C’s of the season ticket, and everyone got on with their business.

Pricing, stadium layout and part stand closures should all be on the table in my opinion for these games. It may impact a couple of hundred fans for 2/3 games per season, but if it helps the club as a whole then I’m all for it.

[hibbysam]

How do you define "small cup ties"?

Small as in attendance wise. Any with less than 10k home fans.

[Hibbyradge]

Ah, entitlement eh. They’re only entitled to that area until the club say otherwise.

As for Friday, where the singing section go doesn’t overly bother me. I’m more interested in the greater good of the club. Small cup ties that are half full should be looked at to maximise attendance and atmosphere.

We closed the famous five for the group stage of the league cup, was there a massive fuss caused then? Nobody was even arsed about it. There was no priority window to buy your season ticket seat. People still got their discount as per the T&C’s of the season ticket, and everyone got on with their business.

Pricing, stadium layout and part stand closures should all be on the table in my opinion for these games. It may impact a couple of hundred fans for 2/3 games per season, but if it helps the club as a whole then I’m all for it.

The FF Stand was closed. People weren't asked to vacate their usual seats in favour of another group of fans.

The Club is the fans.

Your autocratic approach would piss fans off and it does seem, that for some reason, you're determined to do exactly that.

Anyway, as I said before, the Club will only do what they believe is best for the Club so I'm sure we'll both be happy with what they decide.

[ABZHFC]

The outcome you prefer might not be the right thing to do.

I accept that, quite often, my preferred outcome won't be what's necessarily right, but in this case, it is objectively the correct position to try and maximise the atmosphere at Easter Road for a cup quarter final

[hibbyfraelibby]

I accept that, quite often, my preferred outcome won't be what's necessarily right, but in this case, it is objectively the correct position to try and maximise the atmosphere at Easter Road for a cup quarter final

That response is a quite subjective one in terms of objectivity😉

[Bobby's Cinema]

but thats exactly what the singing section are proposing, making long term season ticket holders move to allow them to have the areas they want.
Yes, and currently those who sit there are blocking other long standing fans from sitting there.

Just because thats the way its always been, doesnt mean its for the best and should always be this way.

Like the regeneration of the stadium and knocking down of stands, you cant halt progress. We are missing an opportunity here, things can work better.

I hope KP takes a few suggestions to the table and we hear communication from the club on this. What's wrong with opening a consultation up on this? :agree:

(myself not part of either FFL or singing section)

[hibbysam]

The FF Stand was closed. People weren't asked to vacate their usual seats in favour of another group of fans.

The Club is the fans.

Your autocratic approach would piss fans off and it does seem, that for some reason, you're determined to do exactly that.

Anyway, as I said before, the Club will only do what they believe is best for the Club so I'm sure we'll both be happy with what they decide.

That’s exactly what I’m advocating, that the top tier of stands are closed when they are not needed. Not to vacate for anyone else. Nor have I asked For someone that has a ticket for a game to be moved from their seat.