SFA still failing

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/51416943?__twitter_impression=true
Ten years on and still no progress. Must be nearly time to commission another review. Wonder how the invisible man Maxwell is getting on? Wonder when Petrie will let us in on his big vision for Scottish football now that he has assumed the presidency?


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[Smartie]

There’s little to argue with in that article.

Scotland’s downfall is it’s inability to change.

Getting McLeish involved was an excellent idea but it was typical that we implemented so little of what he suggested.

Scottish football is all about a gravy train for the two biggest clubs and until that mindset is busted we will continue to regress.

[Deansy]

McLeish should've made his review more 'Old S*um'-centric so that way the powers-that-be might've paid some attention to it !

[The Modfather]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/51416943?__twitter_impression=true
Ten years on and still no progress. Must be nearly time to commission another review. Wonder how the invisible man Maxwell is getting on? Wonder when Petrie will let us in on his big vision for Scottish football now that he has assumed the presidency?


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The very fact someone like Petrie, on the back of running Hibs into the ground, can get the presidency shows that there is no appetite to actually change anything at the SFA. The old boys network will prevail to maintain the status quo and keep them enjoying the SFA gravy train.

We’ll be in exactly the same position in another 10 years. With someone else to come in and do a review like Mark Wotte or McLeish, who will then bemoan the fact none of the findings were actually implemented.

[bigwheel]

Why put the “running Hibs into the ground” nonsense in this ? Your other points are well made - but that is just made up ....

[The Modfather]

Why put the “running Hibs into the ground” nonsense in this ? Your other points are well made - but that is just made up ....

I wouldn’t disagree that Petrie did a lot of good at Hibs, but at the point Dempser came in we couldn’t have been run any worse or have got much lower on our downward spiral. My opinion of that point is that we were being run into the ground. I made that point to highlight that in that context, just a few years later he finds himself as president at the SFA.

[GreenCastle]

I’ve been saying for years the SFA need to disband and they need to start fresh.

The clubs and supporters don’t trust the SFA.

It’s old fashioned and jobs for the boys isn’t going to make the country progress.

The women’s game is another example - they have done nothing since they have qualified to improve standards.

Scottish men’s team have no hope qualifying for a tournament anytime soon - feel free to bookmark this after they lose the playoffs.

Until this country also tries to bring the Old Firm down a peg or two we will struggle to move forward.

[Ozyhibby]

I’ve been saying for years the SFA need to disband and they need to start fresh.

The clubs and supporters don’t trust the SFA.

It’s old fashioned and jobs for the boys isn’t going to make the country progress.

The women’s game is another example - they have done nothing since they have qualified to improve standards.

Scottish men’s team have no hope qualifying for a tournament anytime soon - feel free to bookmark this after they lose the playoffs.

Until this country also tries to bring the Old Firm down a peg or two we will struggle to move forward.

All good until your last point. You don’t raise standards by bringing people down, you do it by bringing others up. It’s like Labour and now some SNP politicians always going on about private schools while ignoring fixable failings in state schools.


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[GreenCastle]

All good until your last point. You don’t raise standards by bringing people down, you do it by bringing others up. It’s like Labour and now some SNP politicians always going on about private schools while ignoring fixable failings in state schools.


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Ok maybe that wasn’t the best way to put it.

I would say the Old Firm have a monopoly on the game in Scotland - will another team ever win the league ? Is that healthy ? A more competitive league ( x2 games against Old Firm - x1 home and x1 away) in league would possibly be a start.

Expand the league with Dundee teams / Inverness etc and you would see crowds increase / better sponsors etc.

[Ozyhibby]

Ok maybe that wasn’t the best way to put it.

I would say the Old Firm have a monopoly on the game in Scotland - will another team ever win the league ? Is that healthy ? A more competitive league ( x2 games against Old Firm - x1 home and x1 away) in league would possibly be a start.

Expand the league with Dundee teams / Inverness etc and you would see crowds increase / better sponsors etc.

There is no way Hi s crowds go up by replacing a game v Celtic with a game v Inverness.


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[Hibs4185]

I wouldn’t disagree that Petrie did a lot of good at Hibs, but at the point Dempser came in we couldn’t have been run any worse or have got much lower on our downward spiral. My opinion of that point is that we were being run into the ground. I made that point to highlight that in that context, just a few years later he finds himself as president at the SFA.

I have to disagree about Petrie running hibs into the ground. What other club has our facilities and stadium without going through admin or teetering on the brink of liquidation?

Celtic were saved by McCann
Old rangers are now new rangers
Hearts-administration
Aberdeen- no financial problems but a crap stadium
Motherwell - admin and crap stadium

We are the only club to have top facilities, top infrastructure and never really faced any financial problems in the last 20 years.

The product on the pitch maybe wasn’t the best at times but I’d far rather have a stable club that can grow than a basket case with a few good players.

His decision to hire LD was no doubt the best thing he did but you could argue that was good leadership too.

[GreenCastle]

There is no way Hi s crowds go up by replacing a game v Celtic with a game v Inverness.


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If it was an important game.

Think back to Hibs v St Mirren last game of the season - full house.

Hibs v Dundee Utd in cup recently and in Championship - good crowds without the Old Firm.

This is the problem I’m stating - it’s all about the old firm...tv schedule, giving them the full south stand..worried we can’t fill stadiums against other teams etc. Stop pandering to the Old Firm.

[Kato]

I've said it before on here, Petrie should have stepped down when the East Stand was finished and taken a back seat given he had shares in Hibs. Great with infrastructure, rubbish at leading a football club forward.

[Box 17]

This thread is starting to go off track. It's not about what Petrie did or din't do at Hibs, it's about what he has done at the SFA.

His achievements, in my view, since he started in his role at Hampden are listed below:

[Smartie]

This thread is starting to go off track. It's not about what Petrie did or din't do at Hibs, it's about what he has done at the SFA.

His achievements, in my view, since he started in his role at Hampden are listed below:

A fair point, however Scotland lie 2 games away from qualifying for a major tournament for the first time in 22 years. How much credit does he receive if we manage to achieve that? It's not fair to say he's achieved nothing ( none of us know what he might have achieved so far) but equally it would be unfair to lavish praise upon him if we achieve something that has little to do with him.

Petrie had a very mixed record at Easter Road and I understand some of the criticism he's getting, but Hibs also achieved a fair bit whilst he was with us. One of his weakest points was communication and that appears to be the same here. It's a bit like Ron and his big plan - Scotland should have a plan or a blue print going forward with measurable targets to improve our game. The problem with that is that it makes people accountable and if they failed they wouldn't be able to simply bumble on. It's hard to think that administration of Scottish football is anything to do with accountability and improving our game but more about dinners and blazers, nights in hotels and fact finding trips that go on forever at the expense of the fans. As long as Rangers and Celtic are enjoying European nights then everyone is happy.

Petrie - or anyone else - could make a difference if they wanted to, but they don't. That's why McLeish's criticism is justified.

[Box 17]

A fair point, however Scotland lie 2 games away from qualifying for a major tournament for the first time in 22 years. How much credit does he receive if we manage to achieve that? It's not fair to say he's achieved nothing ( none of us know what he might have achieved so far) but equally it would be unfair to lavish praise upon him if we achieve something that has little to do with him.

Petrie had a very mixed record at Easter Road and I understand some of the criticism he's getting, but Hibs also achieved a fair bit whilst he was with us. One of his weakest points was communication and that appears to be the same here. It's a bit like Ron and his big plan - Scotland should have a plan or a blue print going forward with measurable targets to improve our game. The problem with that is that it makes people accountable and if they failed they wouldn't be able to simply bumble on. It's hard to think that administration of Scottish football is anything to do with accountability and improving our game but more about dinners and blazers, nights in hotels and fact finding trips that go on forever at the expense of the fans. As long as Rangers and Celtic are enjoying European nights then everyone is happy.

Petrie - or anyone else - could make a difference if they wanted to, but they don't. That's why McLeish's criticism is justified.

I was basing my opinion on where we are now, if Scotland manage to qualify then yes, that would be a major achievement.

But then we should really be keeping Petrie as an individual out of this. He is part of a problem with an organisation that has been going on long before he got involved.

You are right in saying there may be positive things the SFA have done for the game, but they need to tell us what they are and what their vision is. We hear nothing from them, look at the media storm going on just now about Keatings, they're being ridiculed from all sides but not a peep from the SFA. All that is needed is some sort of explanation as to why the decision was arrived at so that we have some sort of understanding.

[Caversham Green]

I've said it before on here, Petrie should have stepped down when the East Stand was finished and taken a back seat given he had shares in Hibs. Great with infrastructure, rubbish at leading a football club forward.

He did - he appointed Scott Lindsay and Fife Hyland to take on his duties but that didn't work out so he took over again until Leeann was appointed.

[The 90+2]

I've said it before on here, Petrie should have stepped down when the East Stand was finished and taken a back seat given he had shares in Hibs. Great with infrastructure, rubbish at leading a football club forward.

I don't think Sir Tom would have wanted/allowed that. It would have stopped him getting the gig at the SFA also.

[Ozyhibby]

A fair point, however Scotland lie 2 games away from qualifying for a major tournament for the first time in 22 years. How much credit does he receive if we manage to achieve that? It's not fair to say he's achieved nothing ( none of us know what he might have achieved so far) but equally it would be unfair to lavish praise upon him if we achieve something that has little to do with him.

Petrie had a very mixed record at Easter Road and I understand some of the criticism he's getting, but Hibs also achieved a fair bit whilst he was with us. One of his weakest points was communication and that appears to be the same here. It's a bit like Ron and his big plan - Scotland should have a plan or a blue print going forward with measurable targets to improve our game. The problem with that is that it makes people accountable and if they failed they wouldn't be able to simply bumble on. It's hard to think that administration of Scottish football is anything to do with accountability and improving our game but more about dinners and blazers, nights in hotels and fact finding trips that go on forever at the expense of the fans. As long as Rangers and Celtic are enjoying European nights then everyone is happy.

Petrie - or anyone else - could make a difference if they wanted to, but they don't. That's why McLeish's criticism is justified.

The new qualification system makes it a lot easier for lowly ranked teams to qualify. It would have been a surprise if even Scotland couldn’t get past Israel and Albania. Giving Petrie credit for those 3 wins and a defeat is kind of weird.


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[Smartie]

The new qualification system makes it a lot easier for lowly ranked teams to qualify. It would have been a surprise if even Scotland couldn’t get past Israel and Albania. Giving Petrie credit for those 3 wins and a defeat is kind of weird.


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Scotland have been losing to pish teams as long as I've been alive so I'm prepare to give a wee bit of credit where it's due. They could quite easily have not reached this stage.

A poster pointed out that Petrie had no achievements so far, which isn't entirely unfair, but my point was just that if we do win a couple of games does he get credit? How do we assess his performance, or that of the SFA?

Their communication is atrocious. Ok, they've made an erse of the Keatings situation. But they've also got an opportunity to fix something and give themselves a bit of decent publicity. They could even acknowledge the controversy and say they'll look into it - but nothing.

[number9dream]

What exactly does the president of the SFA do? Is the answer SFA?
Petrie is not on any of the organisation's myriad committees, so his influence is minimal. It's more of a ceremonial, glad-handing role, which is in itself part of the problem. Is it even a salaried position?
The chief exec is where the power lies surely - and we appointed the guy who took Partick Thistle down from the top flight. He seems like a decent chap but not exactly an innovative thinker or a high-flyer in the business world. He was the cheap, won't rock the boat option.
They need root and branch reform but there doesn't appear to be any appetite to move away from the clunking committee system and the old boys in blazers that have been running things (badly) for so long.

The disciplinary system is under the spotlight again after the laughable Keatings decision. We get formal statements referring only to the rules infringed. No details on how those rules were broken. Journalists are left guessing along with the rest of us - or they are briefed by the SFA, when it suits them.
A big part of the reason why it's all shrouded in secrecy now is a reaction to Celtic and Rangers turning up to hearings with a small army of lawyers when they didn't like how things were going.
The Rangers fine for collective misbehaviour against us and Celtic looked like a convenient way to move the focus away from the actions of Kent and Morelos at Celtic Park but still Rangers cry foul!
Managers of Civil Service Strollers and Gala Fairydean get carpeted for comments and nothing will done when Lennon & Gerrard bad mouth officials...
The compliance officer idea is probably a good one but the system that supports it is absolutely dreadful.

[Ozyhibby]

Scotland have been losing to pish teams as long as I've been alive so I'm prepare to give a wee bit of credit where it's due. They could quite easily have not reached this stage.

A poster pointed out that Petrie had no achievements so far, which isn't entirely unfair, but my point was just that if we do win a couple of games does he get credit? How do we assess his performance, or that of the SFA?

Their communication is atrocious. Ok, they've made an erse of the Keatings situation. But they've also got an opportunity to fix something and give themselves a bit of decent publicity. They could even acknowledge the controversy and say they'll look into it - but nothing.

Is there any aspect of the game in Scotland that the SFA does well?
Youth development?
Financial Fair Play?
Dealing with old Rangers dual contracts?
Managing the national team?
Appointing Malky Mackay?
Ian Maxwell? (Is he still alive?)
Disciplinary issues?
Refereeing standards?

I’m really struggling to come up with an SFA success story from the last 25 years?


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[Smartie]

Is there any aspect of the game in Scotland that the SFA does well?
Youth development?
Financial Fair Play?
Dealing with old Rangers dual contracts?
Managing the national team?
Appointing Malky Mackay?
Ian Maxwell? (Is he still alive?)
Disciplinary issues?
Refereeing standards?

I’m really struggling to come up with an SFA success story from the last 25 years?


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I'm not going to argue with you as I agree.

Rangers beat Braga last night and from season 2021-22 Scotland will have 5 teams in Europe. If you like, that might be considered to be a relative success in one area where success might be measured.

As I say, I reckon "the authorities" probably measure success in wine drunk, meals munched and nights spent in hotels on trips abroad and this measure of success probably suggest they are doing a fine job.

Fans of the national side, fans of teams outwith Rangers and Celtic (a not insignificant number of people with an interest in the health of the Scottish game), those with a decent moral compass, those involved in coaching youngsters - might all think otherwise, with reasonable justification.

The problem is with poorly communicated targets and with no accountability, nobody can really say whether they are doing a good job or not.

I hate to say it but over a 5 year period Ms Dempster would improve it beyond recognition.

[HoboHarry]

I'm not going to argue with you as I agree.

Rangers beat Braga last night and from season 2021-22 Scotland will have 5 teams in Europe. If you like, that might be considered to be a relative success in one area where success might be measured.

As I say, I reckon "the authorities" probably measure success in wine drunk, meals munched and nights spent in hotels on trips abroad and this measure of success probably suggest they are doing a fine job.

Fans of the national side, fans of teams outwith Rangers and Celtic (a not insignificant number of people with an interest in the health of the Scottish game), those with a decent moral compass, those involved in coaching youngsters - might all think otherwise, with reasonable justification.

The problem is with poorly communicated targets and with no accountability, nobody can really say whether they are doing a good job or not.

I hate to say it but over a 5 year period Ms Dempster would improve it beyond recognition.
Would depend on the level of resistance from within she would come up against.

[Diclonius]

Nothing will change in the next ten years either.

[The Harp Awakes]

I wouldn’t disagree that Petrie did a lot of good at Hibs, but at the point Dempser came in we couldn’t have been run any worse or have got much lower on our downward spiral. My opinion of that point is that we were being run into the ground. I made that point to highlight that in that context, just a few years later he finds himself as president at the SFA.

What is truly stunning, through the decades of abject failure of the Scottish national team, is how the SFA have come through that period unscathed. They continue to have no accountability for their failure and are proceeding to make the same mistakes. Jobs for the boys indeed.

I find Leanne's outburst over the Keating's decision, although well made, a bit ironic. About 18 months ago Hibs had the opportunity to follow Celtic's lead and take the SFA to task over the Rangers debacle. Leanne and Petrie put their heads in the sand at the time and let the cover up fester. I wonder why? Perhaps Petrie's chance of the top SFA job would have been compromised?

Until there is total accountability and transparency in the way that the Scottish game is run, nothing will improve.

[Ozyhibby]

What is truly stunning, through the decades of abject failure of the Scottish national team, is how the SFA have come through that period unscathed. They continue to have no accountability for their failure and are proceeding to make the same mistakes. Jobs for the boys indeed.

I find Leanne's outburst over the Keating's decision, although well made, a bit ironic. About 18 months ago Hibs had the opportunity to follow Celtic's lead and take the SFA to task over the Rangers debacle. Leanne and Petrie put their heads in the sand at the time and let the cover up fester. I wonder why? Perhaps Petrie's chance of the top SFA job would have been compromised?

Until there is total accountability and transparency in the way that the Scottish game is run, nothing will improve.

This is what annoys me as much as anything else. Hibs are complicit in all this. We sit silently and allow this mismanagement to happen. We are a member of the SFA yet do nothing while it fails the game year after year.


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[InchHibby]

The only way to change/get rid of this SFA and they’re favouritism for the bigot brothers, or should I say, they’re bias towards them and downright lack of respect for the rest of us is to get shot of the bigot brothers once and for all.
I’ve said this for years and I stand by it. I don’t accept the argument that it’ll all go pear shaped without them, it went pear shaped many years ago. We are a total laughing stock in world football and while the bigot mobs could probably sort this out to some degree, they won’t, because they are self satisfying and more than happy to go along for another fifty years in the same mould. They keep saying it’s up to the rest of us to match them, while a part of that is true, it also takes these two clubs to want to do it and meet the other clubs half way.
At the moment we can’t fart unless these two clubs allow us and the governing body, the SFA, allow this to happen.

[HoboHarry]

The only way to change/get rid of this SFA and they’re favouritism for the bigot brothers, or should I say, they’re bias towards them and downright lack of respect for the rest of us is to get shot of the bigot brothers once and for all.
I’ve said this for years and I stand by it. I don’t accept the argument that it’ll all go pear shaped without them, it went pear shaped many years ago. We are a total laughing stock in world football and while the bigot mobs could probably sort this out to some degree, they won’t, because they are self satisfying and more than happy to go along for another fifty years in the same mould. They keep saying it’s up to the rest of us to match them, while a part of that is true, it also takes these two clubs to want to do it and meet the other clubs half way.
At the moment we can’t fart unless these two clubs allow us and the governing body, the SFA, allow this to happen.
Don't agree that the Glasgow pair are happy to go along with the status quo - they would be off like a shot if the English invited them in. Personally I'd love to see them gone too and I think our domestic game would be better for it....

[InchHibby]

Don't agree that the Glasgow pair are happy to go along with the status quo - they would be off like a shot if the English invited them in. Personally I'd love to see them gone too and I think our domestic game would be better for it....

Your right they would be of like a shot if the chance came up, but whilst they’re here they are more than happy to keep the status quo.

[where'stheslope]

I have to disagree about Petrie running hibs into the ground. What other club has our facilities and stadium without going through admin or teetering on the brink of liquidation?

Celtic were saved by McCann
Old rangers are now new rangers
Hearts-administration
Aberdeen- no financial problems but a crap stadium
Motherwell - admin and crap stadium

We are the only club to have top facilities, top infrastructure and never really faced any financial problems in the last 20 years.

The product on the pitch maybe wasn’t the best at times but I’d far rather have a stable club that can grow than a basket case with a few good players.

His decision to hire LD was no doubt the best thing he did but you could argue that was good leadership too.
It depends how far you go back on this one?

Remember they took the toaster out of the players lounge to save money!

That was just after they had followed Gerry McNee's advice, that to keep up with the Old Firm you need to buy £million players!!!!

They bought Bernard and nearly bankrupted them!!!!!